The Narcissistic Covenant

There is a covenant which exists between you and I, between our kind and your kind. It is not necessary for you to provide consent to this covenant in order for it to be binding. You do not know that this covenant exists but it does. Its terms govern the relationship between us and you, whether you are entangled with the Lesser of our kind, the Mid-Range or the Greater. It matters not. The covenant applied from the moment that we selected you to be our victim.

There are ten parts to this covenant and they reflect the mind set and attitude of our kind towards you and how you and I interact. The Lesser and the Mid-Range do not know that they operate in accordance with this covenant, but since they are narcissists, they undoubtedly do, their behaviours evidence its existence. The Greater know that these are the clauses which are contained within the Narcissistic Covenant. There is little doubt that in looking back at your entanglement with us you will recognise certain elements of this but whilst you were very much in our grip, you would have no idea that these were the terms which governed our treatment of you.

  1. You were chosen

Our ensnaring of you might have been portrayed as chance, a piece of serendipity but it was not. You were chosen to be our victim. The Lesser will have instinctively recognised your potential without knowing why. The Mid-Range will have applied some thought to the process, potentially dismissing less favourable candidates, but still guided by instinct. The Greater identified you, monitored you and then moved in for the “kill”.  In every instance you were chosen, whether through instinct or through calculation.

  1. You belong to us

You are an object to us. An appliance. Therefore, we are able to assert proprietary rights over you just as we would with some other kind of object or chattel. Since we own you, we choose what to do with you, without recourse to you or anybody else. This is our inalienable right.

  1. You exist solely for our purposes

We are the centre of your world, the heart of your universe and at all times everything that you do should be focused on us, for our benefit and advancement. You do not exist for your family. You do not exist for our children. You do not exist for your friends, colleagues, fellow members of a club or congregation. We are all that matters to you and you must understand that.

  1. This is forever

This covenant lasts for ever. In our minds it is one that exists in perpetuity for we do not wish to contemplate our own demise and care nothing for yours, other than it inconveniencing us by the interruption to our supply of fuel. This relationship transcends all others. You may have told us that you do not wish to be “with us” any longer. You may have broken off the engagement or divorced us. In our mind all that you have done is end the Formal Relationship which is something that people lesser than our kind engage in with one another and that which we accede to for the sake of fitting in. In our minds our relationship exists beyond this Formal Relationship. This is the Narcissistic Relationship and means we remain entitled to effect the terms of this covenant against you at all times until your last breath or our last breath.

  1. This is totalitarian

There is no limit to our power over you. We are entitled to and we will exercise our right to, govern every facet of your life, interfere in everything that you do, monitor you and control you in order to achieve our aims. You must accept that you are entirely subservient to us. We assert total control over you. This must always be maintained and you must not do anything to challenge that control. If you do so, there will be a response as we quash your perfidious rebellion and restore the order of control.

  1. You cannot end this covenant

You have no rights under this covenant. You cannot bring about its unilateral termination. Indeed, it cannot be ended at all. You are not able to state that its terms are inapplicable to you, that it has no jurisdiction or effect over you. Such protestations are invalid.

  1. We owe you nothing

We are entitled to do as we please without challenge, question or restraint. We have no obligation to do anything for you. We have no compulsion to act in your interests, have regard to your opinion, your feelings or your desires. If we do so, it will only be for the advancement of our position.

  1. Fuel provision is paramount

The provision of fuel is above all else. This is in terms of what you must provide to us and also in allows us to seek fuel from other sources, whenever we deem necessary and howsoever we choose. Concepts of fidelity and monogamy are null and void with regard to this part of the covenant. Issues of protocol and etiquette and meaningless.

  1. The Ends Justifies the Means

The covenant grants us carte blanche to do what is necessary for our purposes. This is supported by our concept of total entitlement and the fact that we have no accountability, culpability or blameworthiness for any of our actions. Whatever needs to be done will be done to ensure the furtherance of our agenda, aims and needs.

  1. We are the Victim

We are the victim in all of this. This is why the covenant exists by reason to compensate us for all of the outrageous injustices, misfortunes, unfairness and hardships that this cruel and feckless world has meted out to us.

215 thoughts on “The Narcissistic Covenant

  1. Lala says:

    I applaud Pam’s knowledge of media doppelgangers when referencing Harvey Weinstein and Miramax sex offender shit talking under their breath hack whispers. I’m sure Tony is fine with the phonetic references to the magnet community’s group of narcissists and their entourage of enablers all wrapped up in one media story about power, privilege and unacceptable behavior.

  2. Truthseeker6157 says:


    With reference to the example HG gives about the buying of flowers. There is a very useful bulletin in the Knowledge Vault called, ‘Inside the Narcissist’s mind, is it a manipulation?’ This bulletin really opened my eyes to many questions I had had about my own narcissist and whether he was being honest / trying to manipulate me at various times and in various situations. It’s well worth listening to if you haven’t seen it yet ABB 🙂

    1. blackcoffee30 says:

      Ugh. I always got the most gorgeous flowers from #2 and now I know why.

  3. Beguiled says:

    Pure Entertainment…this newbie’s first introduction to “Pammy”. No wonder I’ve stopped watching television all together.

    1. Emma286 says:

      Me too (as a newbie). Initially I was wondering if this might be somebody who genuinely saw they’d picked up on something of concern about here and was (maybe) posting the negative things they were to others out of genuine frustration.

      Still, whoever that really is, not getting that idea by this point!

  4. Asp Emp says:

    Oh…… THAT Harvey, from Spector Pearson Litt.

    1. Violetta says:

      What, it’s not Hollywood Harvey with the gangrenous micro-peen?

      1. Asp Emp says:

        LOL. Violetta. I am sure there’s a lot of ‘Harvey’s around. When I was a teenager (hard to believe that I was one, once!), we had a guinea-pig called Harvey (my dad named him about a year before he passed away) – the guinea-pig outlived my dad by around 8 years (yup, the vet was shocked at the age of a little ‘rodent’) – it was a lovely pet. I can imagine some people’s reactions to this comment – I am beyond caring. OMG, even the OED even listed a guinea-pig as a ‘rodent’ WITH a tail!!! I did check the rules to see what can be mentioned – or not (I’m sniggering here – sorry HG – luv ya really) 🙂

      2. Alexissmith2016 says:

        Violetta, have you watched the first episode of the new spitting image? Not sure whether you can get it in the US or not but I think given your wicked sense of humour ‘love’ of MM and Trump this would be right up your street.

        1. Asp Emp says:

          I’d seen clips of the new Spitting Image – thought that Trump’s looks like a trout.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            The clips I watched lacked amusement which says something as many of those showcased produce excellent opportunity for satirical output. Needs better writers. The material they used to produce was excellent.

          2. Asp Emp says:

            I agree – nothing like the old versions – of many things that we are “subject” to now. You could offer your expertise & humorous writing to this programme (with an projection of the costs of your services ;-))

          3. HG Tudor says:

            I could, but my time is taken up with many things, including the creation of entertaining education content Asp Amp and putting straight misconceptions about narcissism and narcissists.

          4. Asp Emp says:

            You could. I’m really enjoying the ‘Death’ series – they are brill HG :-). Narcissism may be easy for you to understand and explain, but for those who are not narcissists, so much to learn and take in. ET is a huge thing in our lives.

          5. HG Tudor says:

            Thank you Asp Emp, the series is about conveying my wealth of knowledge about narcissism in a way to enable people to understand it.

          6. Asp Emp says:

            And it’s greatly appreciated HG 🙂

          7. alexissmith2016 says:

            It definitely wasn’t as funny as it once was but there were certainly some bits which made me chuckle. I thought Trump was strikingly accurate on his appearance! And loved how he wanted the virus to kill off all the oldies, ‘Men over 90 and women over the age of 27’. Jeees

          8. HG Tudor says:

            The puppets are decent, I agree.

          9. Asp Emp says:

            LOL “Men over 90 and women over the age of 27”.

          10. alexissmith2016 says:

            Yup! I’d be on Trump’s list of death

          11. Asp Emp says:

            Trump would not be the first to ‘discriminate’.

          12. alexissmith2016 says:

            Great idea Asp! HG writing for Spitting Image. hmmm perhaps he was involved with the first round. I wonder whether Pamela would agree?

          13. Asp Emp says:

            I doubt HG was initially involved – otherwise the programme would never end!

            LOLOLOLOL. Perambulation would be the ‘star’ of each programme aired 😉 (not that any ‘boundaries are actually ‘respected’ by – what was her name? Sorry, can’t remember – obviously not summat that was important to me LOLOL.

          14. alexissmith2016 says:

            “I doubt HG was initially involved – otherwise the programme would never end!”

            Are you suggesting he goes on a bit Asp? haha how very brave lol

          15. HG Tudor says:

            I think she means I would provide a huge amount of material given my talents.

          16. alexissmith2016 says:

            Haha I know. I just love your reaction. So cutey, cute!

          17. Asp Emp says:

            HG has many, many talents 😉

          18. alexissmith2016 says:

            Agreed. Many of which I would not care to witness!

          19. HG Tudor says:


          20. Asp Emp says:

            LOLOLOL, thankfully we won’t be getting our hands smacked with a ruler for these comments 😉

          21. alexissmith2016 says:

            You think that’s a good thing?

          22. Asp Emp says:

            Yeah. I do (sniggering). It would be unjustified otherwise.

          23. alexissmith2016 says:

            Okay then outta my way

          24. Asp Emp says:

            I have something better than a ruler anyway!

          25. alexissmith2016 says:

            Sounds intriguing. I can’t imagine you naughty girl!

          26. Asp Emp says:

            Imagine away 😉 Who says I’ve been naughty?

          27. Just an inkling missy

          28. Asp Emp says:

            Well, apparently, if “we all behave ourselves” we’d get the remaining ‘Death’ series…….

          29. alexissmith2016 says:

            Total total best behaviour!

          30. Asp Emp says:

            (sniggering). Or not. Ehem.

          31. Asp Emp says:

            Thank you for that – I didn’t need to say it, but I did 🙂

          32. Asp Emp says:

            Ah, no. Far from it! Totally the opposite – HG’s humour & brilliant writing would never bore people, hence the ‘never end’. I’m ballsy but I’d not discredit or disrespect HG – why should I? I’ll argue (sniggering) – just like many other do 🙂

          33. alexissmith2016 says:

            Hahah aww I know You wouldn’t Asp. It’s my British humour.

        2. JB says:

          Ah I hadn’t realised this had started yet! I used to love that programme!

        3. Violetta says:


          I haven’t seen it (no cable or streaming, BTW), although I hear that like SNL, it’s been toned down from the original.

          I just wish In Living Color could take a pop at Megs and Trump. That show took no prisoners. Nothing and no one was safe.

  5. Anna Belle Black says:

    There will always be ones who strive for attention on this blog. They are drawn to drama. They like chaos. They feel uncomfortable when chaos isn’t reigning supreme in their lives. If they can create it on a blog its a sure sign of a lonely and desperate individual looking for attention. Is Pamela a narcissist? Is she BPD or histrionic? Whilst it seems there is some personality disorder, we don’t know her. If you view these exchanges objectively you can feel sorry that this person feels the need to draw any scrap of attention and will sacrifice her character to get it. I don’t think a mid or upper would do that.

    Whatever she is, we can learn a lesson here. Engaging with a narcissist is not productive. It will not fulfill your emptiness. You need to look intrinsically and not extrinsically for self worth. Pamela lacks self worth. Her turning to a blog for abuse is truly sad. I feel sorry for her in that respect. She doesn’t know what she is or why she feels compelled to do it. Even if she does know and is trying to control herself, she feels out of control and must take abuse from somewhere to fill her emptiness. She, at some level feels she deserves it.

    Its true that HG has superior control. I’ve read his work since the beginning. Although I don’t comment as much as I used to, I still enjoy reading his material and the reactions from other readers. I come back simply because I require maintenance. I need to remember who I am dealing with. HG helps me to do this.

    I can see that some need to take thier rage and direct it at the true source, NOT HG as a proxy. Its my hope that Pamela can grow in herself a positive attitude. That she can get to the point where she doesn’t need this negative attention. That she can sit on the sidelines and be okay with herself. It can happen if you do the work. You can get to the point where you are educated enough from HG that you require just maintenance. I’m living proof of that.

    This next portion I direct at you personally, HG.

    Not everyone comes out of hiding for their own attention seeking. I know you said that there are a few who are obsessed with you and etc…(redacted for reasons of confidentiality)

    “when there is a Hoover Trigger (which there will be because she like all the of the handful of narcissists which are obsessed with me, subscribes to the blog so she gets notifications so there will always be HTs) Thereafter, the HEC are usually met because it is so easy to hoover me by posting a comment. The problem for her (and the others)…”

    I’m not obsessed with you and although I exhibit narcissistic tendencies at times, its not my real life personality. I don’t come back and post negative comments for attention.

    I say these things because I think that most empathic readers will take what they read and apply it to themselves. As I do. They will think is this what I do?, in a self reflective manner. Something that narcissists don’t do. So the feeling that this applies to me is NOT one of narcissism but of worry. Do I come across as this? Is this the personality that he sees of me? I think your approval becomes important to me because I am a people pleaser not a narcissist. I hope you don’t see me this way HG. I’d appreciate your opinion on this please. I want to make sure I didn’t take this the wrong way because I do stay off of here and contact you sporadically by email. You can cut this part and reply privately if you want to. I say that because I know I’m showing you my neck to get an opinion. That you have the power to deny my answer and hurt my feelings even though I don’t know you. You see, your opinion matters. Your approval matters. I allow that because I lack self confidence. Its sad really. But it is a plight of many women, which you are very aware. It is a lack of approval from the narcissists in my life that has made me this way. And why I by transference put this onto you. I see that and yet I still do it. My good doctor tells me that I should not read your material or contact you because I do this. That I need to stay away from this because it will not help me to get my self worth from within. I guess if you don’t give me your opinion then you are still helping me lol.

    In the meantime, I will quietly eat my popcorn and watch the drama. Its better than reality TV.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Thank you for your observations ABB, a couple of clarifications.

      1. Whilst your observations for what Pamela might achieve are clearly well-intentioned, they will not come to fruition. She will not change. This is what she is
      2. Your comment to me shows a fundamental misunderstanding of what I have explained :-

      a. I did not say that readers who dip in and out of my work are narcissists. I know there are many readers who are not narcissists who come to the blog, stay, go away and come back again. Some comment and then do not for a period of time and then return to comment, examples off the top of my head include Windstorm, 1jaded1, NikitaLondon, Lisa, Better Call HG, Pale Horse and none of those are narcissists. They do so because of changes in their circumstances requiring maintenance, perhaps thinking “I wonder what HG is writing about”, wanting to look into a specific area of narcissism or something else occurring which causes a more pressing need for information and help.
      b. What I did explain was that the NARCISSISTS that dip in and out (in the manner detailed) do so for the reasons that I explained. It is the ones who have presented clear and compelling evidence of what they are so that their behaviour is then looked at through the lens of the fact that they are a narcissist.

      I have explained this before. A non-narcissist and a narcissist can do similar things but the RATIONALE for that behaviour will vary dependent on what they are.
      1. An empath buys flowers for a neighbour because the neighbour has looked after her cat whilst the empath has been on holiday. This behaviour is driven by emotional empathy for the neighbour and those empathic traits of honesty and decency. It is NOT done for fuel and control, why? Because the person buying the flowers is not a narcissist.
      2. The unaware narcissists buys flowers for a neighbour because the neighbour has looked after her cat whilst the narcissist has been on holiday. The narcissist BELIEVES (because of the way her narcissism functions) that she does so because she is a nice person (let us say A MMR Type A) BUT the real reason she does it is to assert control, gain fuel, gain a residual benefit (facade). Why? Because she is a narcissist. She cannot do it for the reasons in (1), why is that? Because as a narcissist she has no emotional empathy.

      You establish what an individual is based on evidence over time showing collective and repeated behaviours and if this demonstrates they are a narcissist then their behaviour is interpreted through that prism of them being a narcissist. That is the difference between certain individuals and their dynamic in returning to the blog.

      1. alexissmith2016 says:

        I have to say, in the early days of learning about narcs it is tricky to understand the different motives as to why people do things. Which is why they confuse us so much because on the surface, them buying us a gift is viewed as a lovely thing to do. My sister buys me gifts all the time. I accept them but because I know what she is, I feel no compulsion to return her generosity. But previously I would have been confused, thinking how lovely it was of her to do that. Now I realise it is done with intent, not necessarily a conscious intent, but intent all the same.

      2. Anna Belle Black says:

        This goes to…..?

        Did you have another thought?

        Thank you for answering HG. I know you are quite busy. I do think I have a record of showing empathy for legit reasons and not for fuel. Maybe I’m so afraid of turning out like my Mother that I question my motivations and second guess myself. I don’t act like a number of past commenters, ya know the ones, wanting to eat your toe nails and so forth lol. Creepy.

        I’m relieved then. Thanks for that.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          I rephrased something and that got left at the bottom, I have removed it.

          You are welcome.

    2. Violetta says:

      Anna Belle Black:

      “I say these things because I think that most empathic readers will take what they read and apply it to themselves. As I do. They will think is this what I do?, in a self reflective manner.”

      I think you’ve expressed something very important here. I worried about the malice I felt towards Pamela and the fact that I was taking a little too much joy in being bitchy towards her. Maybe I should lay off and let the crickets chirp, because she wants attention, and anyhow, HG is fully capable of coping with twenty Pamelas by himself, but any sympathy I felt for her continual rejection, after having been That Weird Hyper Kid in elementary school, was misplaced.

      She does not have to.come here. She did not have some do-goodin’ mid-ranger of an elementary school teacher poking her in her ADHD back, demanding that she “try to get along with the other kids,” setting her up for repeated failure, and getting huffy when she does manage to make friends–from another teacher’s class or other schools in the same Girl Scout troop: “Why can’t you get along with the kids in this class? I’ve tried to help you.” (Yeah, lady, you just answered your own question.)

      I understand better now what HG meant about empathic traits being corrupted. I didn’t have much choice about going to school or which teacher I got, but nothing is forcing Pamela to.come here except her Narcissism.

  6. JB says:

    Point 4, does it make a difference where the person was in the narcissist’s fuel matrix (or how long they were involved with each other), or do narcissists view everyone equally with respect to point 4?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      No, once you are in the fuel matrix, JB, irrespective of position, from our perspective it is forever. Of course, how that impacts on you is something you CAN do something about by using my work.

      1. JB says:

        That surprises me, as for some reason I thought there would be some kind of hierarchy to it; that you would maybe be more likely to view it as a forever connection in the case of a person who you had had more of an intimate relationship with, or who you had known for years (such as a family member or long term partner) compared with, say, a casual acquaintance, or a short term intimate partner. I guess from my point of view, the closer the original connection, the more likely I would be to view the person in that way, but I guess if you don’t feel truly connected to the person in the first place, then it won’t make a difference?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          I go to a restaurant, the waitress greets me, she is now in my fuel matrix. We may never interact ever again. I may hoover her and utilise her as an NISS or IPSS, she may even become an IPPS. The fact is she is mine to acquire the Prime Aims from should I choose to do so. The extent of the interaction is governed by the hierarchy, the concept of ownership is the same for all.

          1. JB says:

            I had no idea that such a fleeting, non intimate encounter would count as being part of the fuel matrix. It’s fascinating.

            So, in theory then, a narcissist should never be short of fuel options, as every narcissist (unless they never leave their house, that is) will have accumulated a fair few people into their fuel matrix over the course of their life!

          2. HG Tudor says:

            Yes but you have to understand the differing potencies and amounts provided by the relevant appliances, do read “Fuel” it is very important.

          3. JB says:

            Yes it sounds really interesting, thank you.

            So if any interaction, however small, qualifies the person to be part of the narcissist’s fuel matrix, then presumably that means that your readers on this blog are considered to be part of your fuel matrix (although any fuel obtained from them would be minimal due to the various factors you have mentioned previously)?

          4. HG Tudor says:


          5. Violetta says:

            So if any interaction, however small, qualifies the person to be part of the narcissist’s fuel matrix, then presumably that means that your readers on this blog are considered to be part of your fuel matrix (although any fuel obtained from them would be minimal due to the various factors you have mentioned previously)?

            HG Tudor says:
            October 5, 2020 at 16:07

            What?!! You mean the tasteful shrine to HG in my living room (where I hold regular cult rituals) isn’t a major source of fuel?

            I despair.

          6. HG Tudor says:

            It is when you tell me about it! Feel better?

          7. Violetta says:

            “Feel better?”

            Much, thank you.

            I’d be willing to sacrifice the required virgins to you, but since I live in a Midwestern college town, no one has seen one in years.

          8. JB says:

            An interesting thought, thank you for clarifying, HG.

            Violetta, your comment made me laugh!

  7. Asp Emp says:

    Oh. For a moment here, I had thought I had missed an article called ‘The Agreement with Pam’. Seems I was mistaken.

  8. A Victor says:

    “…the Formal Relationship which is something that people lesser than our kind engage in…” – is this what narcs believe? That everyone else is lesser?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      No. Lesser as in not as important, lower, inferior.

      1. A Victor says:

        Oh, yes. Thank you.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          You’re welcome.

  9. Eternity says:

    What is scary is that in the mind of The Narcissist we still belong to them until they day we die.

    1. Kim e says:

      Guess your name says it all

      1. Eternity says:

        Neverending! Yikes that freaks me out ! I want him gone. I have seen bigger hearts in artichokes if you know what I am saying.

  10. Asp Emp says:

    “We are the victim in all of this. This is why the covenant exists by reason to compensate us for all of the outrageous injustices, misfortunes, unfairness and hardships that this cruel and feckless world has meted out to us.”

    We are ALL victims in all of this.

  11. December Infinity says:

    So be the covenant and all its unspoken rules. I am not surprised by this at all, given what I had experienced with the last narc.

  12. Pamela says:

    Hey, Harvey. Fyi. You and Tony are way too stupid for Lucifer.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Hey Pamela you are the embodiment of stupid. Lost any more law suits recently?

      1. Violetta says:


        Is there a pattern to the seagull carp-&-crap flybys? Is it just your turn in the rota?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          There is a Hoover Trigger (usually because they subscribe to the blog and therefore receive a notification) and then if the Hoover Execution Criteria are met, the hoover occurs. In other instances it does not, but they continue to read but remain silent (seeking to assert control through an alternative method as per The 3 Assertions of Control). They never go away for long.

          1. Miss_AGL says:

            Dear HG… I know I’ve already said this to you but damn, I admire your patience!!

          2. HG Tudor says:

            Thank you, Miss AGL. I gnaw on a unicorn horn to maintain composure.

          3. Miss_AGL says:

            *chuckles* Of course you do Sir!
            As long as you’re not planning to drink a virgin’s blood from a unicorn’s horn I think you are cool!

          4. HG Tudor says:

            No, there are no virgins left near me.

          5. Eternity says:

            Popped all their cherries I take it HG.

          6. HG Tudor says:

            The new altar of sacrifice needed breaking in and I got carried away.

          7. Eternity says:

            That’s ok HG, there is nothing wrong with getting carried away.

          8. Miss_AGL says:

            HAHAHA!! *You seriously made me spill my coffee, HG!!

          9. Violetta says:

            “Strangely, local authorities report that all the virgins in the vicinity of Tudor Towers gladly offered to sacrifice their purity–for the good of the crops, of course.”

          10. Bubbles 🍾 says:

            Dear Mr Tudor,
            I quite enjoy Pamela’s visits, your repartee is most entertaining
            Thank you
            Luv Bubbles xx 😘

          11. HG Tudor says:

            Thank you.

      2. Alexissmith2016 says:

        HG, what type of mid range is Pamela and would they all do this sort of thing ie posting strange comments on forums? Would they be an oddball in real life or have a good facade? Thank you.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Not Mid-Range. Yes, will appear as an “oddball” in real life, there is no facade.

          1. alexissmith2016 says:

            Fantastic! thank you so much HG

          2. Witch says:

            So that means Pamela would try and smack us all up in real life? Wigs flying, earrings coming off Haha

          3. Eternity says:

            HG, I see that ,she doesnt make a lot of sense in her comments. Definitely no charm there .

          4. HG Tudor says:

            No. Never has done. Word Salad is the dish du jour. Every day.

          5. Eternity says:

            Ha ha HG! I know. Thank you for setting her straight. Love it!

          6. Violetta says:

            She’s a lesser? With all the silly lawsuits, I thought she was a mid-ranger like Meghan Markle, who also specializes in silly lawsuits.

            To paraphrase Paul McCartney:

            You’d think that people would’ve had enough of silly lawsuits
            I look around me, and I see it isn’t so
            Some people want to fill the world with silly lawsuits

            Otoh, MM definitely has a facade.

        2. Pamela says:

          Pamela is the one that didn’t take the chocolate like the rest of you ignorant idiots.

          1. Eternity says:

            Oooh! Bring it on . You will never win!

          2. Pamela says:

            Win what, you moron?

          3. HG Tudor says:

            That’s a mirror, Pamela.

          4. fox says:

            Then why come back at all? Just curious.

      3. Cup Cakes says:

        Your so funny H.G. I love it.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          My wit is indeed a weapon.

          1. Pamela says:

            Oh yes…..the *wit*. So imposing. You get enough money form these fools, Harvey, don’t be asking me for my bank acct info anymore.

          2. HG Tudor says:

            I understand your bank account stands depleted after your vexatious law suits.

          3. Eternity says:

            HG, has way more better things to do he doesnt need to waste his time replying to your comments.

          4. Eternity says:


          5. Pamela says:

            HG. You’re the genius.

          6. Violetta says:

            Pamela, why don’t you just unsubscribe if you don’t agree with HG’s work? Are you going to blast everyone in the world you don’t agree with?

      4. Pamela says:

        Maybe. Hey Harvey, in case you don’t know, you’ve been charged for rape 6 more time in LA. Sucks. Darnit.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Unluckily for you, I’m not Harvey but we know you’re obsessed with him. Remind me, how did your lawsuit go against him? Oh yes, dismissed.

          1. Pamela says:

            Oh tell the good people the truth, don’t lie anymore.

          2. HG Tudor says:

            Okay. You’re an epsilon complete moron. There’s the truth. Cheerio!

          3. Truthseeker6157 says:

            I’ve a question here. When Harvey pops his clogs, which let’s face it shouldn’t be long, what will Pamela do then? Will her narcissism simply allocate a new identity for you so the provocation is maintained? Or, will the narcissism cause her to withdraw due to the wounding and associated criticism at having been proven wrong so publicly?

          4. HG Tudor says:

            She may deny that Harvey is dead. If she accepts that, she may decide I am this “Tony” again and start talking to “him”, completely oblivious to the fact that I was once apparently “Harvey”. Her need to control Harvey, Tony and me means that she in essence sees all three of us as the same person and she issues the direct assertion of control by her rudimentary insults. They are then ignored or rejected or challenged (by me and/or readers) which wounds or challenges, thus threatening her control, prompting her to keep issuing more rudimentary insults. She is unable to see she looks stupid, indeed by labelling her as stupid, she will respond with another insult because she has no insight that allows her to realise that I am not Harvey or Tony, that she looks utterly stupid through her comments and she will keep going until such time as she gets no response whatsoever and will withdraw for a period of time. When the wounding heals and when there is a Hoover Trigger (which there will be because she like all the of the handful of narcissists which are obsessed with me, subscribes to the blog so she gets notifications so there will always be HTs) Thereafter, the HEC are usually met because it is so easy to hoover me by posting a comment. The problem for her (and the others) the comments are either challenged, rejected through evidence or ignored and thus they will be forced to withdraw and the process starts all over again. A non-narcissist can see that they make fools of themselves and this simple piece of logic “If HG Tudor is so hateful, why keep following him, why keep engaging with him?” Of course that logic is denied to them by their narcissism. It will find a reason to ignore, deflect , work around that solid logic. Therein lies the difference. The empaths that do not like my work, just move on and say nothing. The narcissists? Well you have seen for yourself how they behave.

          5. MB says:

            I have observed that Pam is a very good sport with all the challenging she’s tolerated. I’ve seen Empaths get much more ruffled. Either she’s an UL Type A and just here for the fuel or all of her comments aren’t making it through. Either way, it’s good education, but I can’t help but feel sorry for her. I wouldn’t want to be treated this way. Of course, I wouldn’t act like her either!

          6. HG Tudor says:

            The gratuitously offensive and deliriously random ones are being deleted in accordance with the rules, MB.

          7. MB says:

            I considered that possibility. Thank you for confirming HG.

          8. Witch says:

            HG I need to know what she’s saying about me I’m sure it’s funny, please email it to me haha

          9. HG Tudor says:

            No, you don’t Witch, I’ve better things to do, like write Entertaining Educational Articles.

          10. Truthseeker6157 says:

            HG, thank you for the explanation. It’s mind blowing. I considered she might re cast you as someone else, I didn’t consider that she would merge all three people as one.
            I see what you mean about the hoover triggers. Fascinating to watch this in action and relevant. I know we play around with it, but it’s interesting to work out the thought process behind what’s going on. Thank you for taking the time to explain so fully.

          11. Witch says:

            So after you spent all this time rinsing Pamela now you have articles to write instead of entertaining me?
            You sure know how to break a girl’s heart HG

          12. HG Tudor says:

            Actually I’ve a football match to watch.

          13. Witch says:

            Try not to hurt anyone if your team loses
            I’m going cinema with the mrs’s
            Have a good night everyone
            Thanks for entertaining me, including you Pam 😉

          14. Violetta says:

            I’ve got a horse race. Rescheduled Preakness. Have a lovely afternoon/evening, all.

            Pammy-poo, you’re on your own.

            (Note correct use of contraction and possessive in above sentence.)

          15. NarcAngel says:

            No need to feel sorry for Whaaaamela. She’s getting exactly what she comes for. Remember the credo is:

            Love me, hate me, but NEVER IGNORE me.

            She’s actually drinking deep from the well of charity provided in recognizing her pitiable existence.

          16. Empath007 says:

            I appreciate your explanation HG. The whole Pamela saga has generally bored me, however when I read her comments it’s clear something is not right. While I can understand her perspective is that this is a cult like environment… no one in their right mind would keep participating in it if that was their belief. Especially after this lengthy amount of time. But to each their own I suppose… If she wants to keep interacting with people who she considers beneath her, and mere sheep who follow a leader… then I guess she likes everyone a lot more then she states. Must be getting something out of the interaction to keep it going.

          17. HG Tudor says:

            Hello Empath007,

            1. It is not a cult-like environment. People receive information and assistance through my work which is superior in terms of insight and effectiveness than anything else. They are also helped by the constructive and understanding nature of empathic readers. I know you do not regard it as a cult, but it is important to make this point because of point 2.
            2. The only ones who level the “cult” comment are envious of the dynamic that exists here. They cannot stand the fact that my work helps people, they cannot stand the gratitude that is exhibited towards me, they cannot stand the fact people are moved to defend me and my work and fail to understand that such loyalty has been earned and is not given lightly by my readers. They are envious of the quality of the work, they cannot understand why they are corrected when they make insulting and baseless comments and therefore driven by envy and the threat to their control, they level the cult allegation. As I have stated many times before, empathic people do not get hung up because they have no need for control, hence if they do not like me or my work (and I can understand why that can be the case) they leave it and move on. No song and dance, no attacks, no stupid allegations (which when set straight they flounce away from and disappear).
            3. You are correct in highlighting the contradictory nature evidence by Pamela. If this is a cult and you do not like it, why be here? This is because she cannot help but try and assert control over me and also the readers, hence she stays. This is why certain individuals who are narcissists who decry my work and my readers keep coming back, they cannot help it because of their innate need for control. Any non-narcissist would conclude “No, it is not for me, I am out.” The narcissists cannot do that and therefore they behave in the ways you have seen. They are very few in number compared to the overall number who read here, but they exist.
            4. You are correct that she does get something out of the interaction although she does not realise it, fuel and the attempt to gain control. She fails at the latter which is why she falls silence (3rd Assertion of Control) and vanishes but then reappears again for the reasons I have explained.

          18. Violetta says:

            I’m actually feeling vaguely guilty. This woman brings out every ounce of sadism in my nature. I’m sure she must have been horribly traumatized to turn out the way she has, but that self-righteous, superior attitude makes feel like the world’s most bloodthirsty MeanGirl.

          19. Truthseeker6157 says:


            Guilt. You rang ?!

            Bear in mind, Pamela chooses to come here to fuel up. She chooses to arrive throwing insults this way and that. We don’t have to sit by and watch that happen. We also are entitled to respond and in a similar way if we so choose.

            I understand what you mean. It’s the number of people responding that makes you feel guilty I think. If someone attacks you, people or a place you care about, then it’s my view you can defend as you see fit. Pamela isn’t a normal or an empath defending a point in a debate. She’s a narcissist stopping at Texaco.

            Don’t waste your guilt on her. X

          20. HG Tudor says:

            Indeed and notice for some how that the empathic traits of honesty and decency are being corrupted.

          21. Asp Emp says:

            “Don’t waste your guilt on her” – well said Truthseeker. 🙂

          22. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Yes, if I read the thread from top to bottom, those of us who stayed in the thread for longer did change. Myself included.

            There is a distinction, well, in my mind there is a distinction. This person is coming in to attack albeit from her perspective she is attacking Harvey. So, justified in her mind. I know you aren’t Harvey so my perspective is different. I’m automatically on my defend setting. Defence of the value of the blog, the work, the other empaths I care about and you to a lesser extent (you don’t require protecting so not an immediate concern).

            Cadre plays a part, group mentality plays a part and definitely the corrupting influence of a narcissist plays a part, hers but also yours. The visits are definitely interesting. Your explanation shocked me yesterday. Perspective governs everything.

          23. NarcAngel says:

            Pfft. If that’s every ounce you’ve got then you’re good haha.

          24. Empath007 says:

            Thanks HG ! Thanks for pointing out I do not regard it as a cult, obviously I would not be here and comment if I did. I can understand if someone may have a genuine concern for others interacting with an admitted/known psychopath and wondering why we do it. I would assume that happens most frequently when people have not thoroughly read your work. OR they are in denial about their situation, or they have never had a negative experience with a narcissist. Pamela is definitely strange at best… she has this obsession with trying to put people down she’s never met, she has fantasies about who you are in real life and is obsessed with “bringing you down”, she has this need to shove her degree in all our faces as if she is the only one to ever obtain one. I can see how we’d regard her as a narcissist.

          25. HG Tudor says:

            All valid points, E007.

          26. Violetta says:

            Empath 007:

            She doesn’t actually have the degree yet. She referred to “the reason why I’m getting a doctorate in psychology,” but not everyone finishes grad school–I know plenty of people who flamed out. I was almost one of them, although I finally did graduate (into the worst academic job market in living memory).

            I’m wondering what she intends to do with her degree, should she finish it. She might do well enough running chi-squares on cohort study data, but if she works in clinical, it would be the blind leading the one-eyed.

        2. MB I agree. Whilst I’m intrigued to make the RL comparison to understand who would put themselves through this, that’s enough for me.

          1. Pamels says:

            @narcangel Tony Robbins other account. You have a tiny penis. I’m doing way better than you.

          2. alexissmith2016 says:

            ‘For instance, take a schizophrenic who tells you there is a plot in the registration plates of cars to assassinate POTUS. The schizophrenic does not think “I will make this up and I know it not to be true.” The schizophrenic, owing to an altered perspective because of their illness truly believes that the registration plates shows this. They tell you this, you cannot see it because in your reality this is not the case. You tell the schizophrenic they are wrong and they are perplexed and often upset because they cannot understand how you cannot see it when it is plain as day from THEIR PERSPECTIVE.

            Pamela is locked into her narcissistic perspective all of the time and therefore believes Harvey and Tony and me to be the same person.’

            This is very interesting, but incredibly difficult for us to get our heads around as I guess typically speaking from what we have learned, we understand that Ns have a different reality to us, but this would not necessarily extend to us thinking that they believe HG is more than one person. Because that is not what we perceive as a trait of a narc. Would this only be true of a small handful of narcs? Is it some kind of co-morbidity or pure narcissism?

            I guess, many of us are/were a bit paranoid in the beginning that you (HG) could be our narc or another narc we know etc. But that is more understandable since narcs operate from the same handbook and the fact this is the case does come as quite a shock when we begin to make sense of it. So it is fair for us to make this assumption until we learn a little more.

          3. HG Tudor says:

            It is entirely conceivable owing to compartmentalisation and the objectification. Pamela sees a threat to her control, the threat is the focus of the narcissism, the label attached to it whether it is HG Tudor, Harvey or Tony is incidental. The narcissism may see three separate individuals at different times owing to compartmentalisation and/or on other occasions merge all three into one owing to the inability to see individuals as separate and distinct.

            Your observation with regard to people thinking I am their narcissist when I am not, is borne of emotional thinking.

          4. alexissmith2016 says:

            Thank you for taking the time to explain this HG.It is incredibly helpful, although mindblowingly hard for me to understand how someone can merge three people in such a way. It makes much more sense to me now. Although I find it impossible to understand how one could not see others as distinctly separate.

            This is reminding me of a film I watched many years ago now. I wish I could recall more of it, but it was about an actress and to some extent her relationship with a film director and how he worked out, if he behaved like her mother in certain scenarios, he could manipulate her a little better. I wish I could recall the film and more content but it had no real relevance to me back then.

          5. HG Tudor says:

            It is hard for you to understand because of your perspective. You have to remember that everything you see or feel is based on your perspective and it is not the only one. Someone who sees sound as colour has chromesthia, to them it is part of who they are, they do not invent it, it is normal to them and indeed they may find it odd that other people do not see sound as colour, however since they are in the minority such a perspective is deemed abnormal. Another way of looking at it is to state that there are many, many different perspectives driven by different brain activity and none are abnormal, just some are less prevalent than others, some form the majority, some a sizeable minority and others a very small minority.

          6. alexissmith2016 says:

            Hmmmm I’m trying really hard to grasp this HG. Would it be akin to me having three different irons for example (I don’t by the way), two are steam and one an older model but essentially they all do the same job so I wouldn’t distinguish between them in the same way I would an iron from an oven or an oven from a dishwasher?

            Where as Pamela is confusing the dishwasher with the oven with the iron because by and large they are all things which simply function in her kitchen.

            and only a small percentage of narcs would have this trouble of distinguishing?

          7. HG Tudor says:

            Largely that is correct.

          8. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Wow. And there it is in ref to NA. Damn you’re good.

      5. Pamela says:

        Lol, I have to keep a few surprises for myself.

        1. Pamela says:

          @ witch I’m not your friend. I would never be friends with any of you. I don’t respect any of you. You’re trash.

          1. Eternity says:

            I would call you more than trash Pamela ,but I have respect for HG and people here on the blog that are trying to get away from people like you !
            Now do all of us a favour here and Get Out and Stay out!

          2. Witch says:

            Even after I made a wicked brew? Gosh, there’s no pleasing some people

      6. Eternity says:

        HG. I have a feeling she has lost more than that.

      7. Eternity says:

        HG, I was meaning to ask you. Who the heck is Harvey?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Harvey Weinstein. Pamela brought a lawsuit against him alleging she had been fiddled with by him. Her lawsuit was kicked out because she is as deluded as she is stupid.

          1. Eternity says:

            Ha ha ,thanks for explaining HG, you are right very stupid.

    2. Miss_AGL says:

      Pamela, with all due respect- which is none- the amount of projection in your comment, is almost amusing…

      1. Pamela says:

        You’re cult like dipshit obsession for an ignorant fool is my amusement.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          No, nobody is obsessed with you Pamela.

          1. Miss_AGL says:

            HAHAHAHA!! Oh HG, you intelligent beast!!

          2. Pamela says:

            Let’s review:You’re cult like dipshit obsession for an ignorant fool is my amusement.

            I meant you. No apologies. You make this mistake often.

          3. HG Tudor says:

            Still a mirror, Pamela.

          4. Cup Cakes says:


        2. Miss_AGL says:

          “for an ignorant fool”
          Well.. Spoiler Alert: You keep projecting Pamela!

          1. Pamela says:

            Uh huh. Sure pal.

        3. Eternity says:

          Pamela, you dont amuse anyone here. So hit the road Jack.

          1. Pamela says:

            Or you’ll do what, big boy? Hit reply? Oh dear Lord, what will I do?

        4. Violetta says:

          “Your”, possessive pronoun, not contraction for “you are.”

          1. Pamela says:

            Thanks so much Violet. You have a purpose in life. How sweet.

          2. Eternity says:

            I hit reply little girl. The lord watches over people like me . So go back and find a big boy that you can play with because you will not find it here and HG will never give it to you so keep on dreaming.

          3. Violetta says:

            I have many purposes in life, Pamela. Not one of them involves repeatedly visiting sites I find worthy of condemnation. I surfed Roush-V to find out what the whole PUA thing was supposed to be about and to familiarize myself with their routines so no one could use them on me. I have not been back and I certainly wouldn’t bother arguing with them.

            You don’t approve if HG; we get it. So why pop back here at all? If you think you’re going to cure him of narciness, you can’t.

            What HG is doing is what Macchiavelli did. There were Mirrors for Princes in the middle ages that told how to be a just ruler: to be generous but neither spendthrift nor miserly; to be firm, but neither rigid nor too lenient; to listen to wise councillors, but disregard flatterers, etc. Macchiavelli said the Italian equivalent of “fuck that” and wrote about what rulers actually did: which techniques worked best and which were likely to backfire.

            His name has become a byword for deceit and manipulation, but all he did was tell the truth about what people were already doing. It’s an unpleasant truth, but why shoot the messenger?

            One of HG’s grim little fables will do more to wake up a victim of Narcissism than the false optimism offered by too many other sources. And there’s something reassuring about knowing that you didn’t imagine it.

          4. HG Tudor says:

            Bravo Violetta!

          5. Eternity says:

            She is a lesser and that explains it all!

        5. Miss_AGL says:

          “YOUR cult-like dipshit obsession for an ignorant fool is my amusement.”

          “You’re” means “You are”
          And “Your” means “Your” !!

          I don’t think you’re making the point you think you’re making, Pamela…

          1. Pamela says:

            You’re exposed.

          2. HG Tudor says:

            Still in front of that mirror, Pam.

          3. Truthseeker6157 says:


            Standing in that bar window again HG?!

          4. HG Tudor says:

            Well you know I am a show off.

          5. Witch says:

            When I see Pam and HG going at it, it reminds me of that meme with the cat sitting at the table in a restaurant and of course HG is the cat

          6. HG Tudor says:

            You sent me the meme and it is entirely accurate.

          7. Miss_AGL says:

            Well, Pamela, that’s technically true… Today, I was taking a shower and my shower curtain fell down while I was singing “Teleia” by Victoria, and I felt so… *exposed*.

            How was your day? Besides stalking HG’s blog?

          8. Violetta says:


            Is that the one with the two women screaming in the 1st frame?

          9. Witch says:

            Yes violetta!! That’s the one

        6. Witch says:

          Well since people are giving Pamela attention we might as well get to know her.
          Have a seat Pam. Milk? Sugar? In your tea?

          What were your parents like Pam?

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Disappointed most likely.

          2. Witch says:

            *Holds back the laughter*

            HG! please behave yourself….
            I don’t want Pam breaking my new tea set

          3. HG Tudor says:

            Careful, she sips from the saucer.

          4. Pamela says:

            My dad was a genius engineer and my mom was a successful small busines owner.

            Maybe the reason why I’m getting a doctorate in psychology.

            You all have fun in Tony’s site, ya hear?

          5. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Bet she’s a biscuit dunker.

          6. Witch says:

            Fuck sake! You couldn’t resist could you H.G?

            *dials 999*

            “Police or ambulance?”


            “What’s your emergency?”

            “Pam has smash my tea pot and now she’s pressing a fragment against her wrists and threatening to kill herself”

            *Pam screaming in the background*

            “Fuck you Harvey!! See what you’re fucking making me do!? I’ll fucking do it you cunt and it will be all your fault. Then I’ll sue your cunting arse for driving me to it..”

            “We’ll be there in less than 10 minutes”

          7. HG Tudor says:

            I think you meant.

            “999 should only used in genuine emergencies, not dealing with quarter wits. Wear your mask and keep your distance.”

          8. Witch says:

            Oh jesus!
            Pam darling please put your clothes back on. No, do not open the window! Get down before the neighbours see you! Stop licking the glass…
            Has it been 10 minutes yet?
            You better have a spare room to rent HG because I’m about to lose this flat

            (Okay let me stop now because I’m taking this fan fic to the next level and beyond)

          9. HG Tudor says:

            An Aphex Twin track springs to mind with that comment.

          10. Violetta says:


            Is it the Royal Doulton with the hand-painted periwinkles? Nothing but the best for our Pam.

          11. HG Tudor says:

            No, Pam gets Tupperware only.

          12. Violetta says:

            HG: When I was a toddler, I sipped from the saucer!

          13. HG Tudor says:

            Tsk, such a vulgar!

          14. Violetta says:


            That’s how Grandpa gave it to me. A teaspoon of tea in the saucer diluted by lots of milk and sugar. And I don’t know how I know this, because I don’t actually remember him doing it.

          15. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Gawd Violetta. Don’t you climb on to the rewriting history bandwagon as well! Slippery slope, look what happened to our Lesser friend.

          16. Witch says:

            “An Aphex Twin track springs to mind with that comment.”

            HG I didnt ask what track you’re referring to? Let me know, I’ll look it up

          17. HG Tudor says:


          18. Asp Emp says:

            I was intrigued, so I looked up on the lyrics. I ‘howled’ with laughter.

          19. HG Tudor says:

            Indeed. Now watch the video.

          20. Asp Emp says:

            Yes, Sir, I’ll do that…..

          21. Asp Emp says:

            The video doesn’t describing really, plenty of action going on there (sniggering). He’s very good with his umbrella ‘tricks’ – an excellent dancer though. So were the ladies too.

          22. Witch says:

            I actually googled the lyrics haha

          23. HG Tudor says:


          24. MB says:

            That’s twice today HG broke the internet!

          25. Pamela says:

            A saucer is better than dog bowls. Do you lick each other’s asses for each other too?

          26. Violetta says:

            Annnnddd….the sympathy disappears. That was probably too easy.

          27. Truthseeker6157 says:

            “You all have fun in Tony’s site. Ya hear?”

            Thank you. See you next time Pamela.

          28. Violetta says:

            I’m actually puzzled that she can convince herself that Harvey, Tony, and HG have remotely similar prose styles.

            HG can easily take on the voice of another narrator, but from what I have seen, they tend to be distinctly British voices. Lee the Lesser never sounds like Bubba in the Trailer Park; whiny schoolgirl Cat Astrofy does not have the same syntax, let alone vocabulary, as Madison Middle-America.

            (Mind you, I suspect HG could do it if he wanted to, but he hasn’t bothered, since the lessons of narciness are universal. We all know the type, even when the accent is different.)

            OTOH, Tony and Harvey sound nothing like each other. And I’m pretty sure neither one of them could feign otherwise.

          29. HG Tudor says:

            You are looking at it (understandably) from your perspective, thus is puzzles you. From her perspective it is clear as day because the narcissistic perspective functions that way.

            For instance, take a schizophrenic who tells you there is a plot in the registration plates of cars to assassinate POTUS. The schizophrenic does not think “I will make this up and I know it not to be true.” The schizophrenic, owing to an altered perspective because of their illness truly believes that the registration plates shows this. They tell you this, you cannot see it because in your reality this is not the case. You tell the schizophrenic they are wrong and they are perplexed and often upset because they cannot understand how you cannot see it when it is plain as day from THEIR PERSPECTIVE.

            Pamela is locked into her narcissistic perspective all of the time and therefore believes Harvey and Tony and me to be the same person.

            I recommend you access the Narcissistic Perspective in the Knowledge Vault.

          30. Eternity says:

            Exactly HG, knowing all about schizophrenia you are dead on about that. They really think these things when not in reality. I don’t blame them because they actually hear voices telling them also. So thank you for the explanation.

          31. HG Tudor says:

            You are welcome.

          32. MB says:

            Speaking of schizophrenia, it occurred to me yesterday that there is a co-morbid condition at work in this case. Do you think so, HG?

            Also, what happened to our reply links after every comment? I was gone for a while.

          33. HG Tudor says:

            Not in this instance MB.

            I do not know.

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