When Narcissists Collide – Part One



Many people are curious to know what happens when there is some narc on narc action? Do they recognise one another? Do they seek one another out? How do they react around one another? Do they gang up and is there a pack mentality? Can narcissists work together? Can two narcissists have a successful romantic relationship?

As you know, I categorise our kind into cadres and schools of narcissist. The latter is linked to awareness, ability and cognitive function and therefore this is what is relevant when considering whether our kind recognise one another. Addressing that question first is straight forward. The Lesser and Mid-Range Narcissists do not know what they are and therefore they are unable to recognise their own kind. The Greater Narcissist, a rare beast, is aware of what he is but usually will not admit it (unless he sees some gain to be achieved from doing so). He is however able to recognise his own kind in terms of all three of the schools. With this platform of awareness and recognition, what transpires when narcissists collide? Let us begin with the Lesser and the Lesser.

Two Lesser Narcissists can readily become entangled as a consequence of being related. The existence of a familial connection means that there is no need for an actual seduction between the two Lesser Narcissists. If for instance the two Lesser Narcissists are two brothers then whenever they interact they will seek to draw fuel from the other. This will manifest as seeking to outdo one another or demand attention from one another. For instance, a Lesser Victim Narcissist would want his brother to help him get down some stairs. The brother Lesser Somatic may agree to assist in the expectation of receiving positive fuel from the LVN’s appreciation and thanks. This is less likely to be forthcoming from the LVN and this failure to be appreciative will result in the brother LSN mocking his brother for his lack of mobility, his poor physical prowess as a consequence of the LSN having his fury ignited by the criticism which arises because the LVN did not express sufficient thanks and appreciation for the LSN helping him. Alternatively, the LVN demands the assistance of his more agile brother to help him down some stairs, but the LSN sees no reason to help. He is no carer and therefore refuses. This failure to assist is a criticism to the LVN, his fury is ignited and he will lash out at the LSN sibling through name-calling, telling him he should spend less time in the gym and more time helping his brother out because he needs the help and hell he is entitled to it.

Two Lesser siblings will actually provide one another with fuel because they will erupt in rage with one another. The lack of consideration that they will have for one another (or where they feign it in order to try to gain an advantage) will result in the two railing against one another on a repeated basis. They will trade bad-tempered insults and physically fight, each gaining fuel from the other’s rage until either sated they part or they are parted by others. Unable to recognise that they are dealing with one of their own kind and because they will treat one another as Non-Intimate Secondary Sources they will keep coming together to use one another for fuel, clash, sparks will fly and then they will separate. The intermittent nature of their interaction, since they use one another as a NISS means that their relationship will continue for a long time without discard and will be one marked by turbulence. Outsiders, unaware of what they are, will regard two Lesser siblings as competitive, argumentative and repeatedly at loggerheads. They will covet one another’s possessions, delight in trying to engage in an affair with their sister-in-law or the girlfriend of their sibling. They will seek to outdo one another, aligned against one another because of what they are but drawn to one another through the familial bond and the fact they are able to gain short intense bursts of fuel from one another.

What about two Lessers who find themselves coming together in a social sense? The initial seduction between the two will be effective since neither is seeking to make the other a primary source and therefore the usual instinctive checks for empathy etc will be less rigorous because of this and also because the individuals concerned are Lesser Narcissists. It is extremely rare for two Lessers to become friends in isolation. Instead they are brought together through the ‘glue’ of other non-narcissists. Thus, an empathic individual may have been ensnared by Lesser Narcissist A through say a football team and also through Lesser Narcissist B through being neighbours and this empathic person may well bring the two Lessers together as part of a wider social circle. Thus, it is conceivable that they can become friends, most likely of the outer circle variety and are thus Non Intimate Secondary Sources.

Similar to the situation of a familial Lesser Narcissists, the two social Lesser Narcissists will bump up against one another, trying to outdo one another, clashing, arguing and seeking to draw fuel. Their behaviours will cause the ignition of fury in the other resulting in the provision of fuel and again this will be in short bursts before their need for fuel is sated and they back off. Their interactions will be intermittent and it will usually be necessary for the interactions to take place against the matrix of other non-narcissists being in attendance.

The first Lesser will seek to gain the approval of the social group. The second will resent this and lash out at the first Lesser and thus the arguing will commence. Those within the group will regard the two as just having a ‘personality clash’ not truly understanding the dynamic and will spend their time trying to keep the peace and keep the two from attacking one another both verbally and physically. They will rut with one another as they seek to establish primacy within the group and will always keep going and going until others intervene. Once this happens, they will break off and not bother with one another until the next occasion where they are brought  together. The two Lesser Narcissists will not spend time with one another and nobody else in attendance. The lack of a familial bond means that they would just go at one another until one knocked the other out, thus there is little incentive for the two to socialise in isolation. Instead, the social Lesser Narcissists are always brought together in a wider group, where they will compete with one another against the backdrop of onlookers.

In a work situation, the two Lesser Narcissists are brought together because of the connection of employment. There is therefore no seduction between them but their link is already established. They will compete, not co-operate with one another, look to do the other down and use third parties to try to elevate themselves against this person who will be identified as a troublemaker and a competitor straight away. Two Lesser Narcissists who are forced to work together will become a headache for any HR department. Unwilling to compromise, always blaming one another, shirking responsibility, looking to draw a reaction from each other, they are actually unlikely to get any work done but instead spend their time trying to do down the other. They would not be focussed on trying to outdo one another, after all they are Lesser, but instead, they would rather try and do the other down, which will therefore mean that if the competitor is beneath them they must, by default, be above them. It is a tumultuous relationship of insults, accusations and even violence towards one another which will either lead to the pair being split up so there is no interaction or both being dismissed.

What of two Lessers interacting as tertiary sources, say one is a customer in a restaurant and the other is a waiter? They may, as strangers, get away with a brief dollop of positive fuel for one another. The waiter is pleasant and the customer thanks him. If the interaction is brief they can both get away with this small amount of positive fuel. If the interaction becomes longer there is an increased risk of them igniting one another’s fury. The customer Lesser perceives a criticism through slow service and insults the waiter. He reacts to this and throws a drink over the customer. Both gain an instant hit of fuel and then the interaction is over, again most likely through the intervention of third parties. The two Lessers, even as tertiary sources, cannot exist alongside one another for long before one tries to draw fuel from the other. The low control threshold of the Lesser means that any interaction with another Lesser, either family, socially, work wise or interacting as strangers will result in a flare-up between the two.

Finally, what about two Lessers coming together in the context of an intimate relationship? Can two Lessers have one another as intimate partner primary sources? There is a risk of them trying to seduce one another because of their inability to recognise one another and their lower cognitive function, meaning they may not pick up as readily on the lack of empathic traits. The seduction may commence but then not be concluded as both instinctively find that the other is not providing the fuel that they will need and therefore the seduction is broken off. They have enough instinct to know that the person they have started to seduce will not have what is required and therefore they decide not to proceed with the seduction.

There may however be occasions where two Lessers become locked together in a romantic relationship and seek to make the other an IPPS. This is unusual but can happen because of the following:-


1.      Both have suffered escapes from empathic IPPSs and therefore have been plunged into Chaos Mode. With no pending IPPS in play, they are desperate to find one and thus inadvertently hook up with one another because of their desperate need for fuel. Their weakened state and desperation will cause them to be far less instinctively choosy; and/or

2.      They feign the appearance of empathic traits in order to trap the target and owing to the lower cognitive function (and especially if there is no other primary source fuel provision to hand) they fail to detect that this is false and are thus initially conned.

Where two Lessers “fall” for one another in such circumstances the nature of the relationship will be turbulent and short-lived. Initially, continuing the seduction,they will provide limited positive fuel to one another. This is because given their lesser energy levels, they will be focused on keeping the beast within under control rather than laying on the charm and magnetism. Accordingly, there is not so much a Golden Period but rather a Bronze Period. This poor positive fuel provision will make both Lessers restless, irritable and struggling to keep the beast under control. They may be pleasant to the other in order to try to draw positive fuel but when it is not forthcoming, because of course they are dealing with their own kind who EXPECTS to receive the compliments and sees no reason to return them and their low control threshold means that the lack of decent fuel will bring about devaluation very quickly.

Accordingly, the Bronze Period between two Lessers who have appointed one another as an IPPS will be short-lived and will plummet towards devaluation. Both will lash out at the other and this is when some decent fuel will be forthcoming as they erupt in a fury with another. Unfortunately for them the ignition of the fury means that they need fuel to replace that used up by the fury and therefore there will be an explosive eruption between the two and then they will be forced to withdraw. They will seek fuel elsewhere and once sated return to one another only for the next explosion to occur. So long as the Lessers can draw fuel from other sources and keep erupting with another, a turbulent and vitriolic period of devaluation will occur and will continue until one or both find a far more viable fuel source.

Let us say that Lesser A, finding the fuel from Lesser B to be highly unsatisfactory, finds an empathic secondary source and commences an affair. The fuel is far superior to that being provided by Lesser B. Lesser A moves to promote the empathic secondary source to become an IPPS. Lesser A has found the viable fuel source and thus will discard Lesser B. Thereafter, Lesser A will focus on the new IPPS and have no regard for Lesser B. Lesser B perceives the loss of his IPPS as a criticism, his fury is ignited and he will apply an Initial Grand Hoover to try to win back Lesser A. This will fail. Lesser A will resist the hoover because of what he is and also because he will be infatuated with the new primary source. Lesser B may well lash out at Lesser A through this ignited fury but will be forced quickly to find an alternative primary source. Once secured, Lesser B having also found a fresh empathic primary source will focus on her. Accordingly, Lessers A and B will have no regard for one another and will not hoover, even when they devalue their new-found empathic primary sources because the Hoover Execution Criteria bar will be raised high because of the poor fuel provision they experienced.

Accordingly, in the romantic sense the collision of two Lessers is rare and if it does happen the relationship will be chaotic, brutal and moreover short-lived with the two unlikely to cross paths purposefully again thereafter.

23 thoughts on “When Narcissists Collide – Part One

  1. lickemtomorrow says:

    I’d be very interested to know what happens when two or more mid rangers get together.

    1. NarcAngel says:

      “I’d be very interested to know what happens when two or more mid rangers get together.”

      Think Dumb and Dumber with slightly better clothes.

      1. lickemtomorrow says:

        Haha, NA. I like where you’re going with that.

        I’m curious because they seem to be the most passive aggressive of all narcs. The fact they’re not up front makes me wonder how they work their manipulations with one another in that oh so underhand – sweet on top, sour underneath – way. I’m sure I’ve seen this dynamic in action and they seem to be drawn together but in a manner to carry out their manipulations against other people.

        1. A Victor says:

          Hi LET, having grown up with two, one an UMR elite and the other a LMR victim, I can tell you, it is miserable for both of them. Haha. And for the rest of the people in the home too. I am convinced that they only stayed together to keep their facade in front of God in place. Haha again, as if he couldn’t see through it!

          1. lickemtomorrow says:

            I’m sure my parent’s stayed together for the sake of the facade as well, AV, though that would have been mostly on my mother’s part. It would have been a sign of weakness for her marriage to fail and the consequent sense of shame attached to that. When my ex-husband and I separated for the first time I discovered not long before returning to him that she’d never told her ‘best friend’ that I had separated from my husband! Don’t ask me how she kept that one under wraps. I am thinking now, due to the fact the narcissist doesn’t see us a separate from them, that somehow my separation from my husband (and hence my ‘failure’) would be seen as a poor reflection on her and a failure on her part. That’s how crazy this shit is and keeping up appearances.

          2. A Victor says:

            LET, you are not kidding about the crazy! My mother, a devout Christian anti-divorce narcissist, married herself for 60 years, made up excuses to justify both of my divorces, her way of managing the facade I guess. It was a wonder to behold really. Haha! But she liked it when I failed, then she could pick up the pieces and make herself the hero as well as delude herself that I still need her. She used to tell me she was worried about me when she passed, how I would handle it, concerned at how devastated I would be. She didn’t know me at all, still doesn’t.

          3. lickemtomorrow says:

            Hey AV, there’s no doubt managing the facade comes into it one way or the other.

            My mother also gloated over it when I failed (in her eyes), and the only reason she offered any support was to look good herself. As a mother myself the whole thing is totally incomprehensible to me. Your mother sounds a little like the “overwhelming angel” of the narcissistic variety. And I’m going to say she doesn’t know you at all because there is no ‘you’ as far as she is concerned, only an extension of herself. Same as I am an extension of my mother. Neither of our mother’s knows us, sadly.

          4. A Victor says:

            I know, extensions of them, you’re absolutely right, this helps me understand that concept better. Yuck. Did you know that love is, in part, recognizing that the other person is their own person, separate from ourselves? I just learned that recently, from HG. Quite eye-opening.

            Yes, I’ve seen that over-whelming angel bit in her, she’s a LMR so it’s not full force but definitely elements of it.

            And I had the same thought, as a mother, our mother’s behaviors are incomprehensible! They don’t know us, it’s not their fault but it is their loss. And, sadly, ours also.

          5. lickemtomorrow says:

            Definitely a lose/lose situation, AV, and I’m glad I can give my children what my mother never gave me. It will make all the difference.

            I like the reminder about what love is and recognizing the separateness of the other. Due to their need for control narcissist’s will not recognize this. Nor do they have the capacity to love due to their lack of empathy. It’s amazing how they can be so convincing, though, when they want to be.

          6. A Victor says:

            LET, is there someplace you’ve seen that used in a definition of love? I have been looking for one.

          7. lickemtomorrow says:

            No, I can’t say I’ve ever seen that used in a definition of love which is interesting now that you bring it up. Maybe it’s meant to be obvious, but often love crosses those boundaries in the confusion of what it is or is meant to be. This conversation could become expansive, so I’ll save my musings, but I do remember an author, Khalil Gibran (The Prophet), whose ideas approximate what we are talking about:

            “Let there be spaces in your togetherness, And let the winds of the heavens dance between you. Love one another but make not a bond of love: Let it rather be a moving sea between the shores of your souls. Fill each other’s cup but drink not from one cup. Give one another of your bread but eat not from the same loaf. Sing and dance together and be joyous, but let each one of you be alone, Even as the strings of a lute are alone though they quiver with the same music. Give your hearts, but not into each other’s keeping. For only the hand of Life can contain your hearts. And stand together, yet not too near together: For the pillars of the temple stand apart, And the oak tree and the cypress grow not in each other’s shadow.”

            Unfortunately, he’s also the guy who said “If you love something let it go …” and we all know how that one ends up with the narcissist!


          8. A Victor says:

            LET, it is those obvious pieces of love that I am oblivious to, in a way. Respect is another, I remember my mother screaming her demand that we respect her, I didn’t even know what that meant as a child but once I learned as an adult, I did realize she has no respect for us and also it is not something one can demand. I would love to hear your musings if you ever care to share them. I did receive an excellent description of love recently but it is not yet written down, I may have to do that. But it was all those “obvious” things, those things I naturally did for my children not even aware that they were love in action, also not aware that it was my empathy that led me to make those choices. I often didn’t have a conscious awareness of a “feeling” of love such as being “in love” feels like. But the love was just pervasive and hence went under the radar for me. The poem in your comment is beautiful and aptly shows the piece of love that I asked you about. Thank you.

          9. A Victor says:

            LET, love, and thus life, is much simpler (though not always easy), in a way, than I had ever known. It is a relief.

          10. lickemtomorrow says:

            It is a relief to finally understand, AV, and be able to free ourselves of the things that don’t belong to us. I’m so glad you feel that way and I agree … we are free.

          11. lickemtomorrow says:

            Lovely to hear more of your thoughts around it , AV, And I’d also like to see that description of love you are talking about. I’m sure there are a million different takes on it and ways of saying the same thing. Just ask the writers and the poets <3 (watch out for the narcissists!)

            I love your description of how love was "doing" in your case and something all pervasive. It is a way of being as opposed to just a feeling, and feelings can come and go as we know so best not to rely on them. While they may inspire us, there's definitely something deeper and more intangible about love.

            I don't think you can demand respect either. It's one of those things that has to be earned and the people most likely to earn it are the ones who don't demand it. I had a great deal of respect for my mother (as children often do) until I became an adult and finally began to realize what she had done, and was doing, to me. It took a long time. To untangle what was happening and understand why our relationship never felt right. I also think I kept looking for the mother I was expecting and hoping to find. You know, holding on to hope that one day she would appear. She never did.

            The poem I shared is beautiful and gives one perspective on what we are talking about … how we can be separate and still in love. How we add to one another while retaining our own identities, and how that can be seen as a strength in the relationship rather than a weakness. I like the notion of the pillars and the trees in that sense.

            Guess you did get some more of my musings after all, AV <3 xox

    2. Cup Cakes says:

      Good question?

      1. lickemtomorrow says:

        Thanks, Cup Cakes. These are the types I’ve dealt with the most and not just one at a time.

        1. Cup Cakes says:

          Must of been devastating for you.

          1. lickemtomorrow says:

            It has been and at least a couple of them (females) were tied up with my most recent narc. I pointed at least one of them out to him, calling her out for being a narc and not realizing he was a narc at the same time! He got plenty of fuel from me in terms of triangulation there. He knew I didn’t like her and used that as the basis for reporting back to me on her attempts at interacting with him. Mind you, I’m sure he was encouraging those interactions at times. There was a lot of interplay in that situation between what I would consider two mid rangers who were both determined to mess with my head. Regardless of them not knowing they were narcs, they were fully cognizant of the manipulations at hand and put them to full use. Both of them were triangulating me at the same time. And a third one was added into the mix!

            I’m a survivor of epic proportions with regard to that situation. The humiliation they had planned for me was also of epic proportions. I wear it as a badge of honour knowing what they are now.

          2. Cup Cakes says:

            Your strong for surviving all of this.

          3. Cup Cakes says:

            Help me understand which cadres would be classified when ex used these phrases

            I love you.
            I cant do without you.
            I will commit suicide if you ever leave me.
            I didnt say that.

  2. Asp Emp says:

    Two Lessers are welcome to each other!

    “two social Lesser Narcissists will bump up against one another, trying to outdo one another, clashing, arguing and seeking to draw fuel” – two male kangaroos sparring came to mind as I read this.

    1. Cup Cakes says:

      I totally agree.

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