Sex : How the Narcissist Views Sex and The Role It Plays In Your Entanglement

H.G Tudor - Sex And The Narcissist e-book cover.jpg

No holds barred and no strings attached

The only unnatural sex act is that which you cannot perform

Read about how the narcissist views and uses sex and how you are central in that

US e-book here

UK e-book here

CAN e-book here

AUS e-book here

Also available in paperback on Amazon

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118 thoughts on “Sex : How the Narcissist Views Sex and The Role It Plays In Your Entanglement

  1. Pingback: Sex : How the Narcissist Views Sex and The Role It Plays In Your Entanglement – eaziblogger
  2. leelasfuelstinks says:

    Aw, if anyone is interested, I wrote the end ot this story with “my teenage love”-narc in the thread “The Empathic Supernova”. The end of the story was, that I found out how HORRIBLE he is between the sheets and when he wanted me to coerce me into a threesome (we were in his appartment), I grabbed my stuff within a blink of an eye, lashed out at him, opened the door and ran into the night. The only thing I was thinking of was “I must get away as fast as I can”!! I ran and ran and ran through the streets in the middle of the night, had some money with me, took a taxi home and this was it! GOSO. The narc broke off anyway. No Contact for 25 years.

  3. Anm says:

    My ex who was somatic, could get any girl to do anything he wanted on a first date. The next morning, you would wake up, embarrassed, and insist on leaving right away. He would then insist that you meet his friends that evening for a dinner party with some of his friends. He would keep on insisting that his friends would love you because you are “such a nice girl”. Don’t believe me, I have the police reports for when shit would hit the fan, the cops get involved, and the girl has to explain how they met him. One girl, he met on an airplane, and talked her into staying at his house here in AZ. She was supposed to go to Colorado or something . He ended up threatening to kill her, and she locked herself in his bathroom for 3 days waiting for the cops to show up. The cops thought she was loony for staying with a stranger in a state she had no connections. But that’s the power of a sociopathic somatic with sex.

  4. ava101 says:

    Chatting with guys online, or at meetups, I have a feeling that younger guys now who use online porn are more messed up with worse ideas – – like, seriously not grasping the concept that a woman is not there to be used as an object and that degrading someone is not normal at all anymore, just thinking it normal to go from object to object without so much as considering even inviting her for a drink! They don’t know the difference of wanting to use and control and having a one night stand with mutual consent!
    Coming just out with what _they_ want and what they must get out of a one night (one hour) stand, is something someone would nevet have dreamed of when I was 20.
    How is it that they seem to find women consenting to do circus tricks for them without even knowing them and with the knowledge they will either be thrown away afterwards or one of many?

    That Hollywood romance fake stuff was last proposed to be by older Irish guys. Older men in general. Yiunger ones who are nice enough make it more to a normal friend level.

    For my entertainment I was just chatting with a 22 year old student who seriously saw nothing wrong with and not understanding at all what I saw wrong with him meeting a woman he doesn’t know between classes and having to be back for dinner with his parents at 7 pm to lose his virginity!

  5. leelasfuelstinks says:

    Oh oh! Memories came into my mind. Once upon a time, young Leela (whose fuel really stinks) got ensnared by a somatic narc – after all I read and learnt from H.G., I´m 99 % sure that he is a narc (too bad, I have not enough informations/memories for a NDC, it´s more than 25 years ago).

    My first big love – started as shelf IPSS. Aw, how lovely is that? 😉 😀 The abuse cycles went very fast: love bombing, dating, getting totally devalued, blamed and triangulated and then shelved. A couple of month later the hoovers and everything started again. We were on and off about 5 times. Always the same pattern: love letters (no internet back then), phone calls or even standing in front of my door, dating, devaluation, put-down, blame-shifting, triangulation, being put on the shelf.

    This “lovely gentleman” was totally into threesomes and group sex, which was the main reason I ran for the hills and never looked back, but he was SO BAD between the sheets. THE ABSOLUTE WORST I ever had! He is somatic (I´m 100 % sure) and even back then he was experienced (because promiscous and bragging about his sexual conquests), but SO TERRIBLE! Robotic, mechanic, emotionless, like cooking a meal based on a recipe. First I do this, then I do that, and then this one …. wow, was he BAD! 😀 Before I ran, I told him how terrible, horrible he is between the sheets 😀

    I remember him as the WORST OF THE WORST I ever had in bed. 😀

    1. ava101 says:

      Yea, I understand, kinda ghe same with me, only he wasn’t bad in bed luckily but still typical narc holding back and triangulating no end, none of which I understood of course.

      Just out of mere curiosity, if anyone would enlighten me – – how is someone who is bad in bed into threesomes? Isn’t that embarrassing? Isn’t there in general much room (…) left for guys to embarrass themselves between 2 other people ??

      1. HG Tudor says:

        Only if you see the failing, many do not. Remember altered perspective. You need to recognise that your perspective is not the only one and that there are different ones. Being able to do that will answer many of your questions.

        1. ava101 says:

          Thank you, HG.
          Oh, my.

        2. WhoCares says:

          I could see a narcissist who is ‘failing’ in bed bring up the suggestion of a threesome as a concession to where they lack and in attempt to look like they are generous and catering to the empath’s needs – only then to use it against the empath later.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Fair observation.

      2. A Victor says:

        My ex thought he was amazing. But always the same and always mechanical. He could fool a threesome a time or even a few possibly. But, he’d had one prior to meeting me and it sounded boring even when he told me about it. It must’ve been, he never asked me for one. He was more into phone sex (no actual touching) and secret trysts at his whim when he traveled. Bastard.

        1. Alexissmith2016 says:

          It’s really interesting how some are into ohonesex and not the real thing. A guy I have to meet with now and then always attempts to get me to have phone sex with him, yer never tried it on in person? I suspect he’s a somatic too, which is odd. But his OCD for cleanliness is off the scale. I can’t find any other plausible explanation. I’m just too dirty for him, and not in the way he wants me to be ahaha

          1. A Victor says:

            Yeah, my husband didn’t like touching…me, ew. Other women were fine apparently though I think the routine was likely the same with all of us. And the early training. So, he probably didn’t actually touch anyone else much either. Oh well. Once I found out about the phone sex a lot of things made more sense.

      3. Renarde says:


        It’s not straightforward. But it is kind of obvious. A good person in bed has no need to brag. Watch the braggers. Hg does not brag and neither do I. I state clearly what I am capable of. I know my body. I know how it functions. I am not a slave to my body. It works for me and not the other way around. Intelligence.

        I have walked away from Soms who believe they can trudece me into coitus. Know your worth. Know what drives you. You will be fine.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Yes I do, I wrote in Sex and the Narcissist that I am a sexual olympian. It is not an empty boast, but there will be occasions where this demonstration of supreme confidence is applicable for the purposes of asserting control.

          You do not brag? You might want to look at some of your comments and reassess that observation.

          1. Truthseeker6157 says:

            The only comment I would make here is that I get the feeling that this guy might not have been as woeful in bed as he made out.

            He definitely was woeful for Leela. Similarly though, if being woeful caused her to explode in frustration, then woeful would consistently achieve the Prime Aims for him.

            Or, maybe he was good looking, thought he was gods gift so slept around. His narcissism prevents him realising how rubbish he is anyway. He can still think therefore as a somatic, present as somatic and classify as somatic even though he is crap in bed. I suspect there is more to somatic than bedroom skills. It’s appearance, presentation, vanity, clothes possessions, hobbies, all sorts.

            If he isn’t cerebral at all then he falls to somatic and cancels elite and cerebral out in one go. This guy is selling himself on his misplaced belief in his sex god status. Somatic.

            Hmmm does this mean you would find a greater proportion of somatic in the Lesser school then too?

            What would I know? I’m only a humble empath.

            Bloody brilliant in bed though!

            Hmm? What? Bragging? No.

          2. HG Tudor says:

            Leela has provided further information which confirms he is more than likely to be somatic, as I stated.

            Your third paragraph is accurate.

          3. leelasfuelstinks says:

            My answer to the last sentence in your book would be anyway “Sorry Sensei, but no thank you” 😉 😀

          4. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Ok HG, thank you.

            I’m not great with classification. Just having a go.

          5. Renarde says:


            I am glad you have brought this up so I can clarify matters

            No, I do not brag. I have no need to. My record speaks for itself. And has been proven many times. I am a multi orgasmic ejaculator. That took time and patience to achieve. I am proud of what I can do and I’m passionate about sharing my skills with women.

            I was running an exclusive, female only event. I dont have a G spot, one woman said. Yes, you do. And I will show you how to find it. I took a piece of paper out of my bag, folded it and taught the lot. Many pictures were taken. Much hilarity ensued.

            It’s not really very fair of you to imply that I’m over setting myself. I cannot teach what I know unless I am confident. Can I?

        2. Sweetest Perfection says:

          Haha Ren, I was gonna say that HG does brag but he did that himself. Of course he brags, he’s a narcissist! At least he’s being an honest narcissist -what a nice oxymoron-.

          1. Renarde says:


            I’ll let him off. He doesn’t brag about sex though. He knows way to much which cannot be gleaned from porn. Access DC and you will find out how dark he can go.

            I think people do not understand this about me, which is cool, there is no reason for them too. I will explain. In my head, I’m a man. I’m Genderfluid. I’m technically a gay man trapped in a woman’s body. Not quite a man though which is why I have male friends who can give my head a wobble at times. I’m currently in my male phase although that is flipping again. It does, every few years.

            I’m either extremely masculine or extremely feminine. I utterly adore Garbo and Hepburn. There is nothing hotter than a woman in a well-tailored suit.

            Anyways, that’s me. How about you? How do you view your own sexuality? If that’s too personal, please ignore and forgive me.

        3. ava101 says:

          I was in bed with an Italian macho who claimed before that he was great in bed and be hinted at having a threesome with his friend. Unfortunately that didn’t happen but I was in bed with him alone and he wasn’t great at all and not impressive either by any means….. but tried to make me things I didn’t want to.

          Yea, I know I shouldn’t have gone home with him after he was bragging, but for my defence, I am spoilt by narcs and he looks just amazing.
          Also every other guy saying he was great in bed wasn’t really, though at least some show potential…..

          I don’t brag either. ☺️
          And one can see who is really could in bed by the look around their eyes, and yes, confidently keeping their mouths shut.
          Like my latest ex narc lover… 😂😂

      4. leelasfuelstinks says:

        Well, he was just mechanic, robotic in bed but seeked fuel through sex.

    2. Renarde says:


      Highly unlikely he was a Som. More like Cerebral, I’d say. I’ve never had a crap Som. But two narcs were a waste of fucking space. Talk about Quick Draw McGraw!

      Go back and reassess.

      1. HG Tudor says:

        Leela, from the information provided he reads as a somatic, of course the definitive outcome is obtained by putting him through the Narc Detector.

        1. Renarde says:


          Really intrested on the outcome.


          1. HG Tudor says:

            You won’t be told the outcome if Leela undertakes the NDC as it is confidential. The information detailed so far supports Somatic as I have explained.

          2. Asp Emp says:

            I agree – the importance of confidentiality, especially in relation to this site & any interactions (communications by email / phone etc) when it comes to consultations between HG and any of the ‘service-users’ on this KTN. It’s protection for the individuals concerned. There also has to be trust & confidence on both parties that anything that is exchanged is not used wrongly for any reason at any time. Just like I wouldn’t reveal identities of anyone because they may need protection too.

          3. leelasfuelstinks says:

            All I remember I wrote here …. no more memories, no idea what he is currently like. I would claim lower mid range somatic but that´s just a guess 🙁

          4. Renarde says:


            Of course. Well reminded.

          5. leelasfuelstinks says:

            I say Somatic, too!

          6. leelasfuelstinks says:

            no outcome cause no memories and no more information

        2. leelasfuelstinks says:

          WOULD LOVE TO, H.G. but this is 25 years ago, he was around 16,17, I don´t remember the details, many things have changed now and of course I have NO information what he is doing now. I only heard about 10 years ago that he has a wife (who looks exactly like his mother) and children and became head of the department in a big company (no idea how he did that with his low intelligence).

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Understood. Consign the somatic to the dustbin of oblivion.

          2. leelasfuelstinks says:

            Excuse me, H.G. as not native English speaker I´m not that good at those common “phrases” and/or slang. So he´s cerebral or he´s somatic and I should put him in the trash can? (which I did 25 years ago) 😀

          3. HG Tudor says:

            He is somatic. You should forget him given the passing of time.

          4. Renarde says:

            Let’s just be really clear.

            Academic vs natural intelligence.


            Elite – A handful of CSEs
            Father (C) 3 O Levels
            Cerebral – Lied about his University. Pretended he’d gone to the ‘proper’ when he actually went to the Poly.
            Ex-H Nine years to get his Masters. Finally managed the EngD.


            Hg – Double first from Oxford and PG to boot.
            Me – Three red bricks and also PG. FRAS and MInstP.

            What delineates both of these categories is laziness. The ‘can’t be arsed’ factor. Academic learning is tough. It requires effort. All of those men in the first category are not stupid. They just didn’t care.

            However you can get the stupid in positions of power. Only today, my bro told me of a CEO who is illiterate. How does that bloody work? Incredible.

            I actually DO call that a special kind of stupid. It takes less effort to read and write then pretend, that you can.

            My ex landlady is literate. The man she owed money too was not. Hence, she ripped him off. I saw her doing it and it almost cost me my home. However because her home was also at risk, she got away with it.

            My own landlord sends me the most garbled texts. I have to resist the temptation not to crack one off.

            He says, ‘Ren, you pay rent?’

            I’m so tempted to say, ‘If its all the same to you, I’d rather not bother, ta x’

            I’m lucky if I even get my name. I’ve had to correct him so many times now.

            He is lovely though.

      2. leelasfuelstinks says:

        He cannot be a Cerebral. He was stupid as f…., obsessed with sex and his appearance, bragging about his sexual conquests, was well groomed and an absolute looser at school. He can´t be a Cerebral. Also somatics and elites can be bad in bed.

        1. BC30 says:

          Where are all these Somatics and Elites who are bad in bed? 🧐 Maybe if mine had all been terrible in the sack I wouldn’t have been ensnared. OMG 🤣🤣🤣

          1. leelasfuelstinks says:

            My ex-narc was terrible! Then two other somatics/elites of which I read in books from REAL victims in my home country. The victims wrote that sex was not fulfilling with their narcs. One is definitely somatic: goes to the gym, is well groomed, made carreer as head of the department and was a serial cheater. The other one is dentist, seeked fuel by sex, was a serial cheater and the author of the book wrote that sex with him was not fulfilling and not good.

            Many somatics and elites may be good in bed during the love bombing phase but as time passes…. they become bad between the sheets because they devalue, they don´t care. They withhold and go cheating.

            Couldn´t try out “my” last middle mid range type A elite narc, because infidelity is not exactly my cup of tea, so I was only NISS. He was indeed flirtatious but (pseudo-)”withheld” anyway as “powerplay” and put-down, in order to damage my ego. So, he (pseudo-)”withheld” right from the beginning.

            So, there are the somatics who are bad in bed and one elite who was a withholder right from the beginning.

        2. Truthseeker6157 says:


          Your blatant honesty in this context is hysterical!
          Thank you for making me laugh x

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Her blatant honesty also demonstrates the individual is somatic.

          2. leelasfuelstinks says:

            You´re welcome! 😉

          3. Truthseeker6157 says:

            “Her blatant honesty also demonstrates the individual is somatic.”

            I didn’t think about it like that. Was looking in one direction. You are looking in both.

        3. Renarde says:


          Noted. My own father was a C. He could correctly explain sideral and synodic motion but make the most spectacular gaffes. Honestly? Hes a fucking liability at times.

          I once had the extreme misfortune of catching him on the job as a kid. He was like a giant, blubbering whale. Bro and I still laugh at that! Even mum said he was crap. That coupled with the two I had does tend to colour my view.

          Have you had an Elite? I have. Off the fucking scale. Rare beasts, those.

          However, given your post I’m tempted to change my mind.

          I think I’m up to 16. Never had a bad Som at the start. Victims are needy, Cerebrals are crap and the Elite was a God.

    3. Empath007 says:

      Haha ! A recipe 😂😂 first I do this … then that 😂😂

  6. December Infinity says:

    This might be interesting to have a look at later on. Several of the men I dated in the past had preoccupations with porn sites. They used them frequently alone, and also in conjunction with a sexual encounter in person. A few of the men were deluded into thinking (and sort of expecting) that a woman in real life would perform sexually in the same fashion as the porn star. LOL. Not only that, several of them had the delusion to think that they were awesome in between the sheets. Most definitely not. The encounters were definitely one-sided, as in it was about their performance and the image they wanted to project. I was always thinking in the back of my head ‘Hello, am I even here?’ because I was not really engaged with in terms of actual performance. Was I a blow up doll or what? In most instances once they were done, I was left hanging. WTF? In addition to this, many of the men had fetishes. The fetishes involved projecting how I was to be dressed and behave, some involved a type of rape fantasy and there was always a thing with a certain style of shoes and nylons. What is it with the nylons? I realized it was part of the narcissist fantasy for sure. All the ones I had encounters with had a requirement for the nylons during sex. During one encounter I got kind of fed up as the narc insisted I leave the nylons on. It was very hot and I was getting uncomfortable so I took them off. He didn’t like that at all. He acted like I violated him.

    1. Truthseeker6157 says:

      Ohhh December, you really do need to read this one! It’s a revelation. All of your questions will be answered there. Similar to Fuel, this falls under ‘Must Read’ in my view.

      This book wasn’t just about sex for me. This book showed so much of the narcissist’s mindset, the way we are viewed and that translates outside of the bedroom context.

      1. December Infinity says:

        @Truthseeker6157 I will definitely have to get this book to read. No doubt it should be interesting. Thank you!

      2. BC30 says:

        Someday I will be brave enough to read this. Meanwhile, I just had a consultation and completely forgot to mention the porn! The most recent N suggested using porn literally in bed in the middle of things. I said, “Yeah, ok sure. Yours or mine?” He changed his mind immediately. I can’t believe I forgot about that.

    2. Renarde says:


      And there you go. Certainly males utilise porn. In point of fact, every man does and a lot of women too. I certainly do. Honestly? You probably shouldn’t look at my internet history. It would give most people nightmares.

      What comes out of SATN is what I’ve been saying for years. Sex isn’t that important.

      It is important when you are not getting it and equally important when you are being coerced.

      I fervently wish women knew more about their bodies.

      1. HG Tudor says:

        That isn’t what comes out of SATN at all.

      2. Asp Emp says:

        “Sex isn’t that important” – they use it to ascertain ‘control’ and to obtain ‘fuel’. Some narcissists do not necessarily enjoy sex / intimacy and some will avoid it altogether. Having said that – narcissists are human and all humans have ‘basic needs’ – I am referring to Maslow’s Theory – Hierarchy of Needs (which happens to be usually shown as a ‘triangle’ shape. Ehem.

        1. Renarde says:


          Ahh, my old friend Maslow. I once wrote an article on that.

          At the top sits ‘self-actualistion’, awareness. Many will not get there
          It’s too painful. And why should they? It sounds eminently sensible to not go too far down that rabbit hole.

          I would say, if your sexual needs can be met by solo stuff, why do you need a partner for sex?

          I lived this life for a decade. With a man who used to ignore me when at the start, it was brilliant. I felt ignored and certainly unloved.

    3. Renarde says:


      I personally don’t mind a dress up. In fact, I fully endorse it. As long as it’s not trite like teachers, nurses, police women that kind of thing.

      You are correct, a lot of men like the get up. A lot of men are into the sheer. And why is that? Kay’s fucking catalogue. Or their ilk. However, the woman needs to be fully onboard. And often, they arent.

      This is why you felt uncomfortable. Naturally. I’ll tell you a very amusing story. One day, my Elite partner is around. I’m walking up the stairs, talking about nowt really. Out of the corner of my eye, I see this giant tall black thing. I literally take a step back. He is wearing one of my black, sheer baby dolls. He is rummaging around my wardrobe to find me something to wear. Which he does.

      In point of fact, I couldn’t keep him out of the Agent Provocateurs. Obsessed?

      I would CONSTANTLY find him in the AP box. I would even take pictures. It amused me.

      One day, he was talking about this ‘fabled MFM’ Oh, you’re going to have to crack out the good stuff. I do not think so, Sunny Jim. I’m barely tolerating you doing it. A random, bi male can fuck off.

      In my opinion, and only mine, every woman needs several boxes of lingerie. It is an investment.

      This is undergarments which make you feel good. Ignore what males say. They will thrust their largely warped sense of sexuality on you quick as a heartbeat.

      Often, I find it largely boils down to the stomach. Above all. We are incredibly sensitive about that area. I have a stomach. I’m not hugely happy about my tits either. But my arse, legs and face plus hair (sometimes), sit well with me.

      Ask a man, what colour is lingerie. They will invariably come up with two options. Black or red. Mostly black. Rare you will get one coming up with white. Or any other colour. I have tested this.

      But what do you think?

  7. leelasfuelstinks says:

    @AspEmp: I think we will NEVER forget the hilarious sock-wanking-story 😀 LOL LOL! 😀 Well yes, “my” narc obtained fuel my flirting, complimenting me, and then kicking me into the dirt, drawing negative fuel in that way. So first the positive fuel by the flirting and then the negative one by putting me down and “rejecting” me in a way which clearly indicates that I´m only a dirty, cheap sl*t and not worthy. 😀 And of course showing that a “decent and good person” he was 😀 😀 He probably wanked 5 times after doing that 😀 Hahaha! 😀

  8. Fieke says:

    Hi HG. Maybe I asked this earlier. Haven’t have a copy so not sure.. Being explicit her ( 18+) 😊
    From the book I understand a narcissist will engage in any weird sexual preference when ( in seduction phase) it is what turns on the partner. On her initiative. For fuel. What if the partner just really likes vanilla? Nice and intimate. Being focused herself on returning the favor, making him happy.

    But the narcissist always wants to do that one weird thing. ( Not perverse or devious but a bit abnormal to always expect/want/demand it , normal when it incidentally happens as a variation, actually very nice than) A bit tiresome grandiose show. Demanding very explicitly showing praise and arousal. Could that fit with narcissism?
    Having that own desire ( more: demand)? Demanding to show him “ being very aroused”?
    Instead of making me actually happy between the sheets?

    It was becoming a turn off..

    1. Asp Emp says:

      It’s all about Fuel to them. Once they (narcissist) “recognise” that having sex with you provides them with less “fuel” as it once did, they move to the more ‘strange’ stuff that may appear to be shocking or seek it elsewhere. It’s all about them (narcissist) and how good they look – if there are bloody loads of mirrors in the bedroom, especially if there are any on the ceiling – its a classic sign of a Somatic. It’s all about power to the narcissist = The Fuel and Control. Its not a reflection on you – it’s them. I read the book – it was brilliant reading but it has actually put me off from being ‘intimate’ with anyone else in the future, cos I will always question on it. If a narcissist has an erection during the “love-bombing” stage, they knew they are gaining the “power and control” and also Fuel in the process. They are not necessarily attracted to you. That is the hard part – a woman (or man) giving themselves to someone who has no other selfish and greedy need – Fuel & Control.

      1. leelasfuelstinks says:

        THAT is really the hardest part to understand: They get aroused by POWER by CONTROL by FUEL and NOT by being attracted to the victim. They feel so good about themselves that they get aroused. Then they masturbate alone or use your body for it.

        And as they need fuel all the time, they cheat. They will NEVER be faithful, they are serial cheaters because they need the fuel – at least elite and somatic. The cerebral will just stop the sex during devaluation.

        Or they withhold just to sadistically torture you, feel oh so powerful and in control and gain negative fuel from you.

        Some are good in bed but do that only to feel good about themselves, some are just lousy between the sheets.

        1. Asp Emp says:

          “Then they masturbate alone” – crying with laughter at the memory of the Lesser and the sock and talcum powder. FFS, he should have used a baby sock cos it would have fit him better – the MRN was 5 inches longer! LOL. Your last sentence – absolutely! The Lesser was crap (dick too small) and the MRN was not as experienced (seemed to wish to please me – maybe I had the ‘power’ and he had the ‘control’ – if you can get the gist). Apparently, the MRN never ‘wanked’ – seemed mortified when I asked him if he did it…… I was surprised – a man that doesn’t wank alone. He never did it in front of me either…….

          1. leelasfuelstinks says:

            Yees, the sock and the talk powder 😀 😀 I even googled why a man can use this for wanking 😀 That was a blast! 😀

            Interestingly, sex with my upper lesser type A ex was suprisingly normal. I escaped after 1,5 years, so don´t know what else whould have happened.

            The MMR type A elite, who I was the NISS of, used to flirt and flirt and flirt and then withhold, because he´s such a “decent man” and a “real gentleman” 😀 A real angel with a dirty face. 😉

            Your MRN never wanked, mine never f….. 😀 Yeah sure! 😉 😀

          2. Asp Emp says:

            LOLOL – the sock thing. It’s hilarious!

            Men are strange – even the ‘normal’ ones (non-narcissists).

            Yeah, apparently….. apparently, I was his 3rd woman (in 40 years). 3rd?! Self-explanatory on the lack of confidence. Poor guy. I don’t feel anything for him anymore, I don’t feel sad anymore.

            I suppose the ‘flirting’ is his ‘power / control’ thing to obtain fuel? Still laughing about the sock though!

          3. Renarde says:


            That is funny! A Lee, a sock and talcum powder. Jesus H Christ. That’s bad erotica, right there! I’ll publish, ma’am.

            All humans wank. The rest that say they don’t are liars. Everyone rubs one off. Mind you, I’m not sure my mother does. Except, its entirely possible I used her ‘masturbation aid’ which is bloody grim.

            Mind you, it did teach the merits of 230 volts. Not all is lost.

      2. Fieke says:

        Hi AspEmp and LLFS, Thanks for reply!
        yes I get all that ;). But this one is different. Not a somatic, not a cerebral. Not a lesser.
        Not doing the vanilla from the start, pushing for that a lot of bizar stuff from the beginning but I rejected the rest, so only this one stayed with us. LOL

        I don’t mind it incidentally, heck I even like it so now and than. But not always, and I definitely did not instigate it. But maybe he is narcissistic and not a narcissist disorder person, and just has a fetish! LOL..
        There has never been a devaluation, sex was always the same, always good. I was a DLS!
        No change from beginning. But more boring for me because the intimacy is not there and in the beginning it is all about fireworks and chemistry, that becomes less after few years, but normally intimacy is there to make it all nice and cute and fun.. I kind of want the cuteness , and tenderness, the hugs and cuddles, and it wasn’t there. I stopped now , few months. Just did not feel up to it anymore. Have not gone NC yet. just ignoring the weekly incoming 4 words- booty -call -texts, with a simple, no, not now.

        Have to read more of HG to move forward.

        1. Asp Emp says:

          Hmmm, interesting. Maybe you have got right – is it narcissism or something else? There are other “disorders” (I actually hate that word as it’s demeaning in a way – I prefer to class them as – neurological, physical or emotional differences – they cannot be classed as disabilities when one is born with the “condition”). I class ‘disability’ as something that became “wrong” after birth.

          A relationship should be a two-way & unconditional ‘union’ (in my mind, anyway).

          It’s good that you stopped – to a point, to gain back your ‘control’ if you like, it shows that your Logical Thinking was giving you a ‘message’. If it were me, I would stop responding to him altogether as it’s giving him the message that you will give him what he comes to you for. Either way, you are doing ok, hang in there & put yourself first (your own well-being comes first, not his) x

          1. Fieke says:

            Thank you ASP, he fits all the midrange elite criteria, but a few are off. I will get a consult with HG some time. Now just puzzling away at this. xo

          2. Asp Emp says:

            It won’t be a ‘puzzle’ for much longer x

        2. leelasfuelstinks says:

          You´re too good, too precious to be only a booty call, sister 😉

          1. Fieke says:

            I know :).. But I have my own issues. I never fall in love with a nice guy. In the beginning I thought he was, ( and was already single many years due to having a baby alone) and we would be together, after some months I knew we weren’t. But I am very much attached to one, and not into frequent changing partners.
            And to busy to date, and knowing even when I did ( I did.. a dozen) I never felt it. There were suiters. But I just never felt it. And then I told myself I kind of used him also for the sex. What was maybe true a little, it is nice to have that also every week or so, but also not, because still emotional thinking rising and wanting more and always being disappointed, and receiving half baked promises and trying again, just so tired of it. Now I know I actually wanted the whole love thing and feel so much better not being intimate with him. Three months now, and still much happier than before. I am in the midst of this, I know.. Not there yet ..

    2. leelasfuelstinks says:

      As far as I understood that narc goes only for the prime aims: fuel/control, character traits and residual benefits. So, if you like only vanilla during seduction stage, they do it, if you like water sports, they do it, if you like threesomes, they do it, if they gain more fuel by withholding sex from you – hey, guess what? They will do it!

      During devaluation then it´s about what you DO NOT like! It´s gaining negative fuel. If it´s coercion, they do it! If it´s withholding, they do it! If it´s coercing you into threesomes, group sex, BDSM whatever, they of course do it!

      A narc just masturbates with your body. They are auto-erotic. It´s ALL about themselves to make themselves feel good.

      1. alexissmith2016 says:

        Devaluation sex sounds hot! unlike the rest of the devaluation.

        1. leelasfuelstinks says:

          I don´t think it´s THAT kind of devaluation sex (wouldn´t have anything against it either). Narc-devaluation-sex is NOT pleasant. H.G. wrote in the book that it is exactly NOT THIS “devaluation sex”. They intentionally do what you DO NOT like. They coerc you into threesomes and group sex, they don´t care what you like, they don´t care if they hurt you physically or not. Or: They just withhold sex! Doesn´t sound that good, does it? 😉

          1. alexissmith2016 says:

            Sorry Leela, I shouldn’t really joke about things like that. No that doesn’t sound fun. I’m sorry for what you had to endure. I hate your N. Huge hugs xxx

          2. leelasfuelstinks says:

            Haha, all good, Alexis. I think good humor is what we NEED after what we have been through with our “lovely” narcs. 😉

          3. A Victor says:

            Sweet Perfection, thank you. I’ve never thought of him as a bastard, lol, probably should??? Lol. I can be slow on the uptake.

        2. A Victor says:

          My ex husband forced himself on me once. It wasn’t pleasant. I was very glad that, not knowing what else to do, I told a friend and he found out. He was furious but since he knew I would tell people he never did it again. He withheld a lot though. That was not pleasant either.

          1. alexissmith2016 says:

            I’m glad he never did that again AV and I’m sorry to you to and anyone else for my insensitive comment. It was thoughtless of me. I’m genuinely very sorry for what everyone has been though x

          2. leelasfuelstinks says:

            All good! In my case it´s very long time ago. I remember when my “teenage love” narc wanted to coerce me into a threesome. I picked up my stuff within a blink of an eye, lashed out on him, opened the door (was at his place) and ran! and ran and ran and ran into the night! I didn´t care what time it was (don´t remember it) but it was in the middle of the night and I ran though the streets. Don´t remember how long I ran, I just remember running and running and running and only thinking “I must get away from here, I must GET AWAY!” Had some money with me so could eventually take a taxi home. But that was it! I just wanted to GOSO and the narc also just broke off. 😀 That is 25 years ago and we have been No Contact since then. 😉 😀

          3. alexissmith2016 says:

            Awwww goodness. Yes I remember having a similarish experience with an N many years ago. The running that is, except I didn’t quite run, got a cab instead, mine never asked for a threesome thank god.

          4. leelasfuelstinks says:

            My second ensnarement is also more than 10 years ago. He was somatic, like the first one. Sex was good and surprisingly “normal” but I escaped after only 1,5 years. So, don´t know what would have happened? Will never find out. Went No Contact and he passed away a couple of years ago.

          5. alexissmith2016 says:

            I’m pleased to hear your second was some time ago now and that you’re well out of it. It’s difficult to know what to say when an N dies. Almost still want to say that I’m sorry to hear that.

          6. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Leela, my somatic was not good in that area either. I realized it was because he just enjoyed fucking himself in front of a mirror while recording himself to watch himself fucking himself and then share the video to imagine others getting horny watching him because omg he’s so fucking hot he just can’t even. Hahaha loser… I also dated a guy from Amsterdam who was constantly joking about having a threesome. He dropped the idea every now and then “jokingly” though I knew he was suggesting. One day, as we were watching a movie in his place, a friend of his stopped by to say hi. I hadn’t met him before so he introduced us and we were talking for a while about films, music etc. When he left, I looked at my boyfriend and said: Hey, I think the threesome is a good idea. But I want to do it with you and your friend. He never mentioned it again.

          7. Sweetest Perfection says:

            A Victor, that’s awful and I am sorry it happened. I’m glad you told people and that stopped him from ever doing it again, what a bastard.

          8. A Victor says:

            It’s ok alexssmith, I can understand how it can sound fun upon just hearing it. It’s just different once you’ve experienced it. I know you didn’t intend any hurt and it’s really fine. 🙂

          9. Renarde says:

            Oh threesomes! Never managed to pull that one off.

            I’ve been approached three times actually. Twice as what’s known as the ‘cupcake’ and once by my partner. An Elite.

            I was extremely clear. I’m not interested in women. I was after a MFM ideally. If there is another woman, I Dom her. In fact, I’ll Dom both males. Silly boys.

            It’s far harder to get the concept of a threesome off the ground. Even with a willing female. One very humorous occasion, my partner was trying to find the male. I was extremely amused when said male preferred me to him. After that, the subject was quietly dropped.

            And that’s how you defeat that one!

          10. HG Tudor says:

            I suppose the narcissist sought MFM so you were quiet for a while.

          11. Renarde says:


            Intriguing! Never thought of that!

          12. JB says:

            AV, what a complete bastard! I’m so sorry you went through that x

          13. A Victor says:

            Thank you JB. It’s so far in my past that I hadn’t thought of it even, except in passing, for many years, until this thread. The sad thing is, my friend told me to drop him, we weren’t even married yet, right there and I didn’t do it. I wish I would’ve known about narcissism then.

          14. JB says:


            I’m glad it’s well in the past. Yes I think life would have been very different for a lot of us if we had known about narcissism years ago. I guess we live and learn x

    3. Fieke says:

      Dear mr Tudor, Reading now at p 175. LOL it actually turns out to be textbook behaviour. I do not have to specify; the exact situation is in your book! You are awesome for sharing your knowledge. I do not have to doubt, he is a midrange narc elite. Can not believe myself for having collected another one. How could I be so blind. I will start a museum. And I am not even a codependent. I am strong, smart, pretty independent happy, fun and caring. Always picking myself up again from scratch.
      Dear mr. Tudor, where can I learn about how men (normals and empaths ) work, their blueprint. These relationships, how do they seduce, engage, court, be happy, be angry, be sad, when is it real, when are they implementing healthy boundaries? What is normal? How do I start recognising them!? I want one.
      Never had one. It is just ridiculous.
      Including my 3 in direct family now counting 10. 7 asshole narc lovers. Just shivers running down my spine.
      Grateful to have found this! I prayed to find a method to leave my BS lover, and then came upon this site.

      1. HG Tudor says:

        You are welcome.

      2. Empath007 says:

        I think you recognize the “good” ones by simply observing them for a while. We are all so obsessed with this cinematic romantic script because Narcissist’s are the ones who create the pop culture we’re exposed too. People dive in head first (myself included) without using their rationale. And that’s sort of what this whole place is about … starting to use our logic instead of our emotion. And understanding that the kind of love we romanticize is the love created by Narcissist’s. A false hope.

        1. Fieke says:

          I know, and when I was a student I dove in also. But I am single for many years.. dating..always observing first for a while.. I knew my last (narc) one many many years prior.. Iand I do not believe in the Hollywood love idea. So I think for many your advice is sound but need more.. I need a blog, ‘Knowing the normal…”

          1. A Victor says:

            Fieke, I am with you, we need a “Knowing the Normal”, this is a good observation! And also, attracting the normal! I seem to attract…those who are not…but then I wonder if I’d even know what to do with a normal, or if they’d seem boring.

          2. HG Tudor says:

            Your focus should be on no contact and the reduction of ET and then these concerns about knowing what to do with a normal or that the normal would be boring would disappear.

          3. Asp Emp says:

            “Knowing the normal” will bore you to death – especially when you have ‘tasted’ the world of narcissism. Nah, forget ‘Hollywood’, it was created by a Lesser who didn’t have a clue what to do with his dick. What you need is the freedom to communicate with people (like us, empaths on this blog) who have experienced narcissism – starting with reducing your ET & using your LT & building on that. That’s the only difference between men & women – it’s usually a dick thing & you weren’t born with one…. empower yourself & you don’t need a dick to do it x

          4. fieke says:

            @AViktor LOL We do.. some of us were to indoctrinated with narcissistic people. I am all about boring and quiet and normal, you will be okay.. develop nice hobby’s, no drama, like when you are single but get to spent live with your bff.
            Reading books together in bed, with the dog besides you. 🙂 lol
            I also seem to be a narc magnet, Or was. I am so insecure if someone is emphatic.. I kind of need the blueprint to also recognise them, not just become become narcproof. It is the contrast that will help. many people have narcissistic traits, so to know when is it ‘to much’ would help to know more normals.
            I think it is also a matter of getting good counseling and feeling of becoming worthy and believing to actually having something to offer to a normal.

          5. A Victor says:

            Yes HG, I believe you’re correct. Thank you for the wise words.

          6. JB says:

            Fieke, for me, there were two people who I was comparing traits for, in order to see if they were narcissists. One seemed obvious, the other I had started to worry about as it suddenly dawned upon me that although we hardly ever argued or disagreed, when we did disagree he would take everything like a personal criticism, and so I started to worry that he might be a narcissist too.The big difference for me, though, is this – when you argue with them (or even just have a difference in opinion), how do they react? Both people to whom I am referring would act like it was a personal criticism, and that really worried me. However, the big difference between the two people was how they behaved after things had calmed down. One of them would be able to then reflect upon their behaviour and do so without word salad or silent treatments, but the other could never reflect upon their own behaviour and would engage in constant circular arguments, word salads and silent treatments. That is how I knew that both people weren’t narcissists, and, although possibly not 100% reliable as a way of detecting narcissists, is my big benchmarker for the future!

            I once read that the quality of a relationship isn’t in never arguing with each other, it’s in how you argue and work through disagreements, and I must say, this does seem to be the case in my experience. From my limited experience, I would now say that the person I refer to above is a ‘normal’, with some narcissistic traits, whereas I believe myself to be more of an empath (possibly with a few narcissistic traits in there somewhere!)

          7. A Victor says:

            Fieke, thank you for seeing the humor intended along with the seriousness of my comment. You are correct, I, at least, was indoctrinated with narcissism. It makes it very difficult to even know what is normal. I really appreciate your picture of it, it is as I have pictures it, as I am but with another alongside, no drama. Having 10 years, and much introspection, between me and my last relationship, I thought I was ready. Ha. There is much to do. HG’s admonition as to where my focus should be, along with your picture as my goal, is very timely and helpful. Thank you. And best wishes for your journey as well. We will get there, I believe it.

          8. Fieke says:

            JB That is very good advice! It is true that ,that confuses me, walking on egg-shells when I say ‘no’ or question something, that explosions of fury and taking everything as a personal attack.

            It confuses me, when I am fed up whit that behaviour and get really angry, ( like walk away ,disconnect, whatever, I am out , please leave my house and have a nice life- kind of angry) then suddenly there is a a friendly face and a small reflection. Like ” I understand what you mean”. Like he heard my anger, and felt my boundaries, and adapted to it.

            And then the BS entitled conditions on how the relationship shall be just follows again after that small ” I understand” . But with an excuse like ” I am so busy I do not even see anyone, like friends or family and all spare moments I have are with you. ( nonsense).

            Then I doubt, because of the fact that my anger made them nice again and seemingly understanding, and for one day there is more affection, hug, smiling, but never change.

            OMG as I am writing this I already know the answer. I just get conned, it is fake, he is so narcissistic.

            But still hard to detect sometimes, today I met a drum teacher, he sure did like to talk about himself. He did ask me questions, but lost interest the mine I started talking, asking straight for the big profit, what was my job and how much did I make. Only ever to se any twinkling in his eyes when my comments where about him or about myself and how he possible could profit from me. Getting better at seeing the red flags that true LOL.

          9. Fieke says:

            @AViktor : yes for me the same many years, so happy to start recognising red flags.
            and shift attention to someone else. Sometimes I purposely start talking about me, not giving any admiration or compliments, making just jokes and tell I am a housewife. LOL..
            No residual benefits , no fuel.. Just to see the reaction.
            My dogs gives you a paw ( beside my bed, with Tudors books, only need a nice man for picture perfect) LOL..

          10. JB says:


            Getting better at seeing the red flags – I know what you mean there!

            What you said about when your anger hits a peak and then you start to doubt as he appears to change for the better afterwards, but only for a short while – that I can really identify with. So many times I have seen this with my parents. I see my dad respond like this, appearing to realise he has pushed my mum too far, and I think I have got it wrong, he’s not that bad really. But give it an hour or two and he’s back to how he was before, no change at all. Constant confusion!

          11. JB says:


            The person you met, who only wanted to talk about himself – I once had the opposite, he never wanted to talk about himself at all, only wanted to talk about me, wanted to know everything about me. In retrospect that was a red flag too!

          12. Fieke says:

            @JB Sorry laughing again..
            .it is fine in a first meet up someone talking about themselves, he does not know me and it takes a lot of skills to ask questions to strangers.
            But the tired eyes when I talked where disturbing.

            I am laughing because what you describe is definitely also a red flag.
            I also recognise that also. Especially the firm refusal to talk about former girlfriends, but one, the one that got insane. I never knew it was a narc thing, but I have collected two with ex-grilfriends who went bananas after the beak up. I always believed it, although did find it peculiar. I understand now what happened to the poor girls, if it happened at all.

            Have a nice evening!

  9. leelasfuelstinks says:

    Next Friday is Friday the 13th. A PERFECT reading for Friday night the 13th! 😉

    Very good reading, especially a good Friday night reading 😉 😀

    1. Asp Emp says:

      When I Googled ‘Friday the 13th’…… this is one thing I came across….

      “friggatriskaidekaphobia or paraskevidekatriaphobia” – something to read upon…..

      1. leelasfuelstinks says:

        Hahaha, what is THAT? 😀 😀

        1. Asp Emp says:

          I just liked the ‘friggatriskaidekaphobia’ word.

          Urban Dictionary : friggatriskaidekaphobia = The fear of Friday the thirteenth. The Frigga is for Friday, the triskai is for 3, the deka means 10, so triskaideca means 13, and phobia is the fear.

          It’s an excellent word actually. LOL. Fank Fk It’s Frigga – perfect! LOL.

          1. leelasfuelstinks says:

            Love that word too 😀 Fear of Friday the 13th. 😀

            There are plenty of horror movies about Friday the 13th, but this book is better and creepier than ANY horror movie 😀

          2. Asp Emp says:

            Stoker Meets Christian Grey…….

            Yes, HG’s book made me see ‘intimate relations’ with a narcissist in a very different light. I didn’t find it creepy. Just educated – I reckon this should be included when teaching about sex & relationships at schools!!!!

      2. Truthseeker6157 says:

        If you get an ‘ology’ you are a scientist! ( might be showing my age a bit there)
        If you get an ‘obia’ check for narcissists!

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Yes Maureen Lipman, you are!

          1. Truthseeker6157 says:

            O ohhhh! Ha ha

        2. JB says:

          Ooh blast from the past! Was only talking about that advert yesterday!

        3. Asp Emp says:

          LOLOLOL. Its Sunday – supposed to be a day of REST. Not in my house….. not today…..

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