The Dirty Empath : Relationship Breaker
The Empath. Regarded as a paragon of virtue with those traits of honesty, decency, compassion, love devotee, moral compass and so on. All of which make the empath and their fuel output tempting prey for us. Yet within these virtuous empathic traits sit other traits, narcissistic traits.
There are four schools of empath (Standard, Super, Co-Dependent and Contagion) . Layered on to these schools are the empathic cadres (such as Magnet, Carrier and Geyser).
Each empath within the relevant school has both empathic and narcissistic traits. Some will have a small number of strong empathic traits with few narcissistic traits which are low in strength. Some will have many empathic traits which are moderate in strength and have few or numerous narcissistic traits which are all very low in strength. Some will have many empathic traits which are strong and numerous narcissistic traits which are moderate or even quite strong. The key consideration is that, in effect, the empathic traits keep the narcissistic ones ‘in check’ and thus the empathic individuals behaves in a way which is empathic with other people.
There are however two main instances when the narcissistic traits come to the fore. The first is through The Empathic Supernova which is when the empathic traits become ‘dialled down’ or eroded for a temporary time and thus the narcissistic traits come to the fore. The second instance is a permanent state of affairs and this is the cadre of the Dirty Empath. The individual is empathic, of that there is no doubt, they have those empathic traits, they also have narcissistic traits too, however one of those narcissistic traits remains strong and prominent throughout and sits alongside the fewer, weaker narcissistic traits and the various empathic traits of varying strength. This does not mean this person is a narcissist, not at all. It does not mean that this person is not an empath. What it means is that they are an empath but there is one (sometimes there might be more) narcissistic trait which ‘dirties’ their empathic status. Think of the empath coloured white with a black streak running through them. The DE is the class of empath and there are various Dirty Empath streaks.
One of the dirty streaks which runs through the Dirty Empath is that of Marriage Breaker (or Intimate Relationship Breaker). This streak is based on the narcissistic trait of selfishness.
This situation arises where the DE becomes involved with somebody who is already in another relationship. The DE is single. The other person is not. There are those empaths who would never have a relationship with someone who is already committed to another. The level of refusal varies from those who might engage with someone who is dating other people but would not if they are in a steady relationship and not at all with someone who is living with another person and is/or married, through to those who refuse to countenance any romantic interaction with someone who is engaging with other people, at any level.
The Dirty Empath will not actively seek out a romantic relationship with someone who is already married. If the DE knows somebody is in a relationship, they will not pursue that person as that offends the empathic traits of the empath. The narcissistic trait of selfishness is not so strong as to override the empathic traits and cause the DE to want to pursue and engage in a relationship with someone who is already taken, committed to somebody else and so forth. Such an act is the preserve of someone who is a normal (even then it remains unlikely) and is more likely the response of someone who is narcissistic (not an empath and not empathic) or a narcissist.
Accordingly, a Dirty Empath will not target, pursue and engage with a person who is already in a romantic relationship.
That point made, what are the circumstances which give rise to the Dirty Empath Marriage Breaker? There are three.
The common thread where the Dirty Empath Marriage Breaker (“DEMB”) arises is where the DEMB is targeted by the other person. The person will be highly narcissistic or more usually, this person will be one of our kind.
Addressing the three circumstances :-
The Ivory Response
The DEMB is seduced by the Other Person (“OP”). They do not do the seducing. The OP does not tell the DEMB that they are in a relationship and if the OP is (and most likely will be) a narcissist, the DEMB will be the Candidate IPSS or Shelf IPSS. The DEMB may well be strung along in this fashion, oblivious to the fact that the OP is in a relationship, for some time. They may have suspicions but as ever, the OP will use plausible deniability to assuage those concerns. In the usual style of the seduction of the golden period, the DEMB will be taken in and engage romantically with the OP.
You may be thinking that since the DEMB does not know the OP is in a relationship, was not the pursuer and has been seduced, is it not somewhat harsh to describe them as a DEMB? Possibly, but the fact remains that they are romantically entangled with another person who is in a relationship and thus that comes within the umbrella of DEMB.
However, there comes a point where the DEMB finds out that the OP is already in a relationship. This may happen whilst the seduction is ongoing, it may (more likely) occur when there is devaluation or during a period of being placed on the shelf. The DEMB having learned of this will not immediately walk away from the OP. They will, in accordance with their status as a truth seeker want to gain answers from the OP. The relationship will continue. The DEMB will also make it his or her mission to tell the spouse or partner of the OP what has been happening, thus they earn the epitaph of Marriage (Relationship) Breaker or at the very least, disruptor.
The DEMB will fail to get adequate answers from the OP. The DEMB will not however just retreat, upset and distraught at having ‘been played’ and lied to. This is where the DEMB’s selfish trait flares up. Their moral indignation at their situation must be attended to. They will not withdraw and allow the OP and his or her partner to mend matters and patch things up. No, the DEMB will :-
- Ensure the OP’s partner knows what has happened in detail and will encourage them to walk away from the OP;
- Ensure other people know about the OP’s behaviour;
- Ensure the OP is told precisely what a low-life, cheating bastard he or she is.
Once 1,2 and 3 have been achieved, the DEMB then walks away from the carnage caused and endeavours to remain out of the hoovering clutches of the OP, the OP now desperate to find a new IPPS since in all likelihood the actions of the DEMB have caused the narcissist OP to lose his existing IPPS and be looking at a fuel crisis.
Accordingly, the DEMB is not whiter than white because (unwittingly) they engaged in a relationship with an attached OP. They cause carnage through their response to learning of the cheating behaviour of the OP towards themselves and the OP’s IPPS (and possibly other IPSSs). They are not completely blackened however as their response has sought to achieve some good, albeit for selfish reasons. The DEMB walks away from the OP (and tries to stay away) and accordingly the response arrived is off-white, hence ivory.
The Point of No Return
Similar to the above, the DEMB does not know that the OP Narcissist is attached to someone else. The DEMB is pursued, seduced and falls for the OP. At some juncture, the DEMB later learns that the OP is with somebody else. This could be during seduction, when being placed on the shelf or through devaluation.
The response is not one of ivory however.
Instead, the DEMB has reached The Point of No Return. Such is their addiction to the OP Narcissist, such is their desire to keep that person as their own and ‘beat’ the OP’s partner, the DEMB’s narcissistic trait of selfishness rises to the fore, overriding the empathic traits and causing the DEMB to fight for the OP.
He or she will do whatever they can to maximise their chances of being retained by the OP over the OP’s Partner. The combination of the seductive addiction and their own selfish narcissistic trait means that they will :-
- Tell the OP’s Partner about their existence;
- Focus on winning back/retaining the OP’s interest;
- Possibly even smearing the OP’s Partner themselves in order to achieve their aims.
The DEMB’s usual empathic traits are outshone by this single, strong narcissistic trait of selfishness to the extent that they appear to have taken leave of their senses. They want the OP, they see that they should be the one who ‘wins’ the triangulation and they will keep on trying to secure this outcome again and again, even when placed on the shelf or devalued. Of course the OP may well find their relationship with their IPPS in tatters but will not be unduly concerned as the Narcissist OP will feed on the twin stream of fuel and either remain with the original IPPS and dis-engage from the DEMB IPSS or choose the DEMB IPSS instead and continue with the shelf arrangement with them or make them the new IPPS.
The DEMB in these circumstances has reached the Point of No Return, they want the OP and notwithstanding the carnage caused, the roller coaster ride which awaits them, they earn the title of DEMB justifiably.
The White Knight
In this scenario, the OP tells the DEMB that he or she is with someone else. Nevertheless, the narcissist OP will adopt the tactics of
“We are effectively separated.”
“We are only together for the children and lead separate lives otherwise”
“I am being abused.”
“It is a loveless marriage”
“I have tried to make it work but he/she just isn’t interested any more and I have not left because x, y or z”
“My wife doesn’t understand me.”
The DEMB adopts the role of White Knight riding to the rescue to save this poor OP from their misery, their banal existence or the clutches of the tyrant spouse. It is the familiar story of faked misery and abuse manufactured by the narcissist OP, the cultivation of the DEMB in the role of rescuer, the OP as ‘victim’ and the OP’s Partner as the ‘perpetrator’. The DEMB operates through a hybrid of empathic traits (doing the decent thing in rescuing the poor downtrodden narcissist OP, exhibiting compassion for this person etc) and also the narcissistic trait of selfishness because they want to be with this person, they want to ‘save’ them even though they are attached to someone else. Yes, they have been duped by the OP’s manipulative act and illusory behaviours, but nevertheless, the DEMB knows this person is attached and because they do not walk away, but instead engage in the relationship with the narcissist OP, they earn them mantle of DEMB.
Thereafter, this White Knight DEMB may be the Candidate IPSS and becomes crowned as IPPS, only then to suffer the devaluation and then learn the truth about the nature of the OP and what he or she did to the innocent OP’s partner. They may become the Shelf IPSS and find out the truth when they are on the shelf or possibly (though rarely) have been dis-engaged from. Once the White Knight realises they are not the rescuer, their response changes and they may respond with an Ivory Response or continue to fight for the OP, as per the Point of No Return. The fact remains, they knew this person was with someone else but they engaged with the OP and went along with the seduction despite this state of affairs. Yes, they may well have done so for noble empathic reasons but they also did so for a narcissistic selfish trait also.
Thus the Dirty Empath Marriage Breaker arises in three different ways, all of which either dent, damage or destroy an existing relationship between the narcissist (or narcissistic) OP and their existing partner.
15 thoughts on “The Dirty Empath : Relationship Breaker”
Twice men who were in relationships already tried to start something with me. When I learned of their existing relationships I was very angry, this is a line I would never cross knowingly. I would never do that to another person. Except the ex I cheated on, which I wish never would have happened. That experience, the guilt from it, made me stay in my second marriage long after I should no longer have.
I am a dirty empath. infact, the Myers Briggs Personality Test concludes that I am an INFJ. Until i just read this article ive kept it to myself that I have long suspected that I have both narcissistic and empathetic traits. i didnt think it was theoretically possible to be both so ive never asked anyone – but this is more me than anything ive read in a long time.
I was involved with a upper range narcissist a few years ago who nearly wrecked my world. He sensed my empathy and deployed every trick in the book, finally accumulating in real blackmail and police involvement to keep control. Fast forward a few years and I am truly happy now. I have a wonderful husband, a great home, everything one could want. I am a window box gardning weed smoking happy hippy – life is good.
But. There is one more thing I want. And thats revenge. Revenge for what he did, revenge for what he made me do, revenge for every frightened confused tear that fell from my face. Every article ive read says stay away from the narcissist….and they are right. So for the last 18 months ive been fine tuning certain dark traid traits and supressing my empathy on a conscious level. I repeatedly shove aside empathetic feeling. I ignore the guilt.
For nearly a year now ive been watching him work on a new victim from afar. He has no idea im around (no contact or word for 3 years) – im devalued in his eyes, i dont exist. And thats the way I like it. Because hes not going to see me coming. Ive already put certain aspects of my plan into action, ironically learning from this site, but in reverse.
Ive already made him believe his new partner is cheating. Ive watched from afar (he grooms online to start with) as hes screamed like a wild animal at her and everyone in the voice chat room believing hes losing control via betrayal (thanks for the tip Mr Tudor), I watch with amusement as goes from angry to mirroring her, to devaluing her. Tearing his hair out…and this is just the start.
However…going back to the dirty empath subject – I nearly made a mistake a few days ago. I got to thinking about his new partner. How she is the new me, how i know what shes going through, how i shouldnt be doing this and weaponizing her. My empathetic thinking made me almost make an error that would remind him of me – catastrophic. The first time since i began ….i allowed my empathy to dominate the narcissism that i had been culturing in order to beat him at his own game and that blinded me.
When dealing with a narcissist, i know that empathy is the biggest weakness and the most dangerous one. When i was pursuing my target with no empathy deliberately involved, it was easy to run rings around him and watch the show. The second i allowed my heart to rule my head the game could have changed.
I will state that I have never ever done anything like this before, and never will again. But i am living proof that empaths, if they become aware of the power of their dirtiness – they will use it.
It was very interesting to read your comment. In relation to INFJ personality – I came across this a few weeks ago and I was fascinated to learn about the higher intelligence range – this is very rarely talked about and hence so few people know about it. I had a look into the INFJ personality ‘traits’, it was very intriguing. It also prompted me to think further – if so few people are aware of INFJ, how many medical professionals are also unaware and effectively ‘misdiagnose’ people with other and more known about ‘personality differences’ (I do not use the word ‘disorder’ because people’s brains are wired differently).
Thank you for your comment, another learning ‘curve’ for some people and medical professionals to become aware of.
I’m curious about personalities and how they relate to narcissism or empathy. I used to wonder about it with the summer narc, when he picked up on it he said that his previous psychologist girlfriend had given him a personality test once and he’d ended up right smack in the center, no personality specifically. And, that she’d never seen anything like it. It was strange, like he was trying to throw me off somehow.
Maybe its because when taking the test he could not mirror anyone – or copy anyone or see what they had put. It was down to their own feelings – and that is something they cannot connect to. Perhaps they treated it like a test – and wanted to ‘get the superior’ score so rather than using emotion and answering questions with thoughtful, critical reflection – they chose the ones that would make them ‘look’ the best to the examiner or test evaluator. Using HG Tudors theory this could perhaps be ‘facade management’ – ‘lack of awareness (personal) and maybe….’magical thinking’ as personality tests dont have a scoreboard.
Such interesting stuff!
Hi Nicole, I just saw your comment, so sorry! I think you are correct on all counts. He definitely had personality that stood out to me, of course I was seeing him reflecting me but the of thing is, much of it was not me. I’ve tested as INTP and I would’ve said he was firmly E/TJ, and probably S but not as clear. Anyway, I didn’t know they reflected us when I knew him, didn’t know what he was. It is interesting!
I too am an INFJ. I read Nicole’s paragraph with interest. But like HG says, sometimes the best revenge is no revenge. Just move on and be your best self and live your best life. Remember, the new supply is not at fault. They are in the same place you were once and they too will get an awakening and they will be devalued and discarded.
Thank you so much for your comment. It felt GOOD to ‘confess’ about what i’m doing – not a soul on this planet knows apart from who reads these comments. I’m ashamed that as an empath i have engineered this behaviour – as emotional armour because i know how destructive a narcissist will be and if we go head to head….. the odds arent in my favour as I cant stop the empathetic traits from bleeding out from time to time. As a narcisssist, it is so easy to make him think hes being betrayed and is losing control in certain domains. H G Tudor is correct, this is their biggest fear and im working all those fear holes slowly, like a dripping tap.
Empathy is the natural achilles heel of any normal person wanting to get their own back on the narcissist – this is why it is SO dangerous to seek revenge like this. The stakes are high. I do not recommend this to anyone else reading it. I am only doing it because he cannot get to me the way he could before. i emigrated and changed my name via marriage. And because as a dirty empath the pleasure I get from seeing him suffer is only superceded by the feeling that I get when i make someones day or make them smile. Personality disorders are really that complicated.
Thank you for responding to me i hope we can exchange more ideas on threads, now Ive found Tudor I am his biggest..fan 🙂
Oh dear I had a comment and lost it so trying again! INFJ is by far the most common personality type among narc abuse survivors in the Facebook groups I have been in. I am INFJ although used to be INTJ. The narc I knew was ISTJ. No deep meaningful conversations on the meaning of life to be had with the S types! INFJ is supposedly the rarest of the 16 types though I doubt that. I do not know any other INFJs in real life although I do know an INTJ. If you learn your type and research it, it’s quite fascinating.
I’ve been curious about the same thing in regards to personality tests and narcs… I’m an INFP, retested since it’s been 7ish years, same. detector puts me as 60% contagion empath but I’d be pleasantly surprised by a narc INFP. of my last two ex’s the mid lesser was ENFP though he got ESFP the first run and claimed a misunderstanding on the questions and had me reset the test. ISFP for the ex before that, didn’t detector him though. not sure how precise as they only took the test to please me and I was present… Twisted enough on the same day due to us all being friends. Next time I have someone take the test I’ll leave the room not that I plan on ending up with another narc if I can help it!
Did you do the “Love Languages” test on them? They usually score even on all counts.
I don’t want to sound condescending but in reality this Narc still has you firmly in his grip.
You think you are in control but he is still pulling your strings and is therefore the one in control.
You are still devoting headspace and energy towards him plotting revenge in the shadows.
He probably knows you are doing this if he is in the upper category.
I know this hurts , and I am currently in the throes of having been discarded and made many mistakes.
It’s sooo tempting to want our say , justice I think .However it won’t take away any pain.
Please leave this Narc off .His new victim is not your responsibility.
Easier said than done I know 🎄
Hmm lol, sometimes it’s hard to know who the victim is.
I’ve known 5 INFJ’s personally, and since one of them was my INFJ NPD mother driving several people in the family to suicide while pretending to be an a Mother Theresa like figure I’ve tried to engage people with a similar behavior patterns in conversation about MBTI tests and following up casually over time.
Some similar patterns I noticed are compulsive virtue signaling, constantly wearing masks, gamified social interaction, hidden entitlement, very strange boundaries, mirroring, information gathering, anxious, subversively controlling, beyond reproach, reflexively triangulating, 0 respect for other people’s agency, “moral authority”, odd Machiavellianism, vengeful, intense but odd jealousy, pretense introspection, very strategic whispering, black and white thinking, odd disgust reflex, confused emotionality, guilt, cold empathy, vulnerable rage, buried hate, odd stare – calculating, someone else is evil-somewhere.
Addicted to pandering: they usually know it though, it has to be from non-gamers ?
Longing for enmeshment: But you’re meshing with a mask while they are meshing with a person lol
0 truth testing of theories: really strange, not practical for some types of work, dangerous with narc’s
External regulation: strange comfort by making people feel what they need, no internal control?
Strange eye contact: an observant stare over time, bit machine like.
Sphere of control: Do not disturb the cult lol, no wrongthink here (you villain)
Spirituality as identity: The link is so strong, External facts are a threat to sense of self
Beyond reproach: I’m perfect, any critique is a mortal injury, soothe me!
Splitting: Disowning anger etc. until a breaking point, needs a villain (scapegoat) to unload on.
Delusions: Like a hamster wheel spitting out rationalizations, all of them about identity not truth
Shallow sense of self: Strange, but behind the masks you find rationalizations not identity
External locus of control: someone else is to blame, so what INFJ’s do is OK lol
Emotional mathematics: Maybe the most curious part of them, it’s really quite elegant and hard to deconstruct, there can be a sense of having your buttons pushed methodically as if testing your boundaries – can you be depended upon to react reflexively, will you notice. I tried to observe it in forum discussions and it’s very interesting to deconstruct how it goes from problem->person so fast, applied like the Fe persons version of a logical construct but instead of tackling a problem it’s an emotional bind to catch the person behind the wrongthink committing to a theory while sacrificing their moral standing and not fully noticing. Not entirely fair to INFJ’s though since a person on a forum could claim to be any type.
I’m INTJ and another side of the emotional mathematics that’s so strange to me is their inaccuracy reading people unless they can watch or make them react to triggers, that mechanical stare seems to really carry a lot of sensory weight (to compensate for poor modeling ?) they are incredibly aware and deliberate with triggers, but seem relatively oblivious about deeper character traits, needs “flat characters” to flex, IQ doesn’t matter too much. Does not understand intellectual integrity or fundamental motivations, but seem incredibly confident decoding less deep motivated reasoning, but there is an odd pattern to it. They bait, decode the response and then pack a nonobvious trigger with the response and then it get’s a bit special, looking like successive approximation they bait again and again each time getting closer to the trigger waiting for the emotional response they need and filing the information away carefully. Looks very narc like. Wonder how accurately they see people because their view of people seem quite limited but that cerebral emotionality is certainly no accidental habit, maybe mostly a by proxy emotional regulation by manipulation.
As INTJ I’m a bit split when reading about dark traits and then seeing Voldemort and Palpatine typed as INTJ, on the one hand cool yeah they make plans and stuff happen but on the other hand it’s absurd because when watching them in action it’s not a cerebral creation of mental models put into action, it’s an emotionally charged megalomania run amok and the preferred toolset is not a fascination with the world seen as accurately as possible and as an effect of that accurate model a thirst practically put into action to feed his God complex, nope, it’s a messiah on a vengeance against unbelievers and his rhetoric is that strange cold emotional mathematics, his preferred toolset the ability to penetrate a mind, gradually enveloping it in a haze of custom manufactured rhetoric designed to search for emotional wounds and vulnerabilities from which to feed and put down roots, Palpatine finding Anakin vulnerable and playing on it until he breaks, Voldemort with one character after the other with that strangely cold empathy so carefully loaded. And both of them not really understanding people all that deeply. I saw my INFJ mother do it to people, breaking them and for some their will to live.
INFJ’s can love a person for decades and think it love, well knowing they are making absolutely certain that the person of their love has only ever know their mask, the snowflake lol, or one of the others.
The distance between empaths and narc’s are a hell of a lot shorter than people think, and I’m pretty confident most humans are better off as long as both their love and their hate is reserved for each other.
Infidelity can happen to everyone. We are only human beings. I personally try to avoid it and last time I was just lucky. “My” last narc was fortunately a mainly cerebral one (elite but cerebral leaning), who preferred a million times wanking in the bolthole to seducing the married target (me) 😉 😀
I got off cheaply! 😉
Cake food fight commences…… was the cake that bad? (laughing)……. bath time I suppose.