The Treatment



We do not seek treatment. The answer to why that is the case is a simple one. There is nothing wrong with us. Occasionally we may be compelled to undergo treatment but that is a different matter. We feel no compulsion at all to volunteer to be subjected to analysis and therapy because there is nothing wrong with us. Yes, we know that our treatment of other people is often unpleasant and has significant downsides to those who are subjected to it but that still does not amount to a good reason why we should seek some form of assistance. The way we behave is the way we behave. Deal with it. We cannot help but act this way because it is the way we have been designed. We must obtain our precious fuel and if that means we lash out and wound others, emotionally and physically then that it is the price that has to be paid. By you.

You must also remember that since we have no concept of empathy, when we see our behaviour injure others it does not affect us. We do not feel guilt, we do not feel shame at what we have done and we do not feel the need to put right the injurious harm we mete out to others. This is our modus operandi and it can never be changed. Add to that our lack of remorse and you have two huge reasons why we will not act to seek treatment to change our ways.

Naturally, there will be times where we will talk about seeking treatment.

“I need help, I know that now. You are the only one who can do it.”

“If I seek assistance for this terrible affliction, will you stay and help me?”

“I don’t know why I do it, perhaps I need help. Will you help me?”

“I need you. Don’t go. You have to save me from myself.”

“I will change, I will go and see somebody, just don’t leave me, please.”

These are all empty promises. Remember, words comes easy to us. We will dangle these carrots of penance and insight in order to get you to do what we want. Once that has been secured and you try to cash the cheque that we have written you will find the bank has not only been closed but razed to the ground. It is not a question of there being nothing to cash it against, there is nowhere to cash it.

Treatment is for the weak and foolish. To submit to it is an admission of weakness. In the rare instances that we will, it is only to enable us to get something else that we want or to prevent something drastic happening to us and thus we regard the pay-off as one worth making. We do this safe in the knowledge that any treatment will not be effective because:-

  1. We use our manipulative wiles to con the person treating us into concluding that there is nothing wrong with us;
  2. We spend the time trying to charm the therapist and this may work or if they are alive to our manipulation they are forced to terminate the work;
  3. We do not want to change and see the therapist’s actions as a direct challenge which we must thwart. Our energy is channelled into frustrating and defeating him or her and not applying ourselves to the treatment.
  4. We treat the treatment as a form of fuel.

This results in it being futile.The reality is that those who engage with us are the ones that end up seeking treatment. It is most often the case that our bewildering and confusing conduct towards you has you at your wit’s end. You seek answers and if you are fortunate, you turn to a professional who is fully conversant with out kind.

They are able to illuminate you to what you have endured, assist your understanding and then hold your hand as they take you through the painful and difficult extrication from our grip. You are blessed with insight from this treatment.In certain instances, the abuse we dole out is such that it seriously damages the recipient and therefore treatment is needed to deal with the symptoms of our behaviour towards you. The ramifications for you are serious and have long lasting effects.

We do not seek the treatment. You do. In doing so this is often the first time you actually realise what you have encountered and what you have been subjected to.

35 thoughts on “The Treatment

  1. Asp Emp says:

    There was a year or so when my mother went off the ‘rails’, totally. Even now, I have no real idea how it was started or what triggered it – certainly her narcissism was a factor. Yet there was something that really set it off. I was 21 when this happened (I left home less than a year later, thankfully). She was saying some really weird shit – in public places. It was, admittedly, quite frightening to a degree, I was not concerned about my well-being, it was what she was saying and it was as if her whole ‘personality’ was changed – she looked like my mother but not the person I grew up to know. She was an alcoholic, not taking drugs. And, she did see a therapist for a while, then stopped. She never ‘reverted’ back to that weird shit again, not that I know of anyway – until the time she went into hospital and my sister explained about an ‘episode’ that took place – where the narcissism really came to the fore. Mother never came out of hospital.

    My sister & her husband explained to me about toxins & alcoholism – a conversation that took place around 20 years ago. Obviously, narcissism was never and has never been mentioned. It probably will never come up for discussion in the future either, unless I start the conversation about it and open a massive can of worms….. maybe, it’s best to leave sleeping dogs lie…..

    1. A Victor says:

      Asp Emp, thank you for sharing more of your story. I am so sad for you, it sounds like your childhood was rough too, I am so glad we are here now. And we’re getting better!

      1. Asp Emp says:

        Ah, AV, don’t be sad for me – I am just sharing. Me too, glad to be here. I hope I am getting better!! Yeah, I think I am – sometimes I wonder though – think it’s just the isolation that is driving me ‘cray cray’….. anyhow, one day I won’t be ‘alone’ in the sense of the word….. x

        1. A Victor says:

          Exactly, we are learning and making general forward progress even if there’s an occasional setback. And with the covid isolation, this place is an even bigger blessing to have.

          1. Asp Emp says:

            Absolutely spot on, AV, a blessing to have KTN site…… absolutely.

  2. lindseymarie says:

    It was odd because the narc supported me going to therapy, or said he did anyway, but also said he thought psychology was a bunch of garbage and meaningless. He had gone before, supposedly to figure out why he’s such an asshole, but thought the therapist was useless and it was a waste of time. The last new year with him he said he was going to make it a goal to be a better person that year. I said that’s a worthwhile goal and was impressed. I’m quite certain that did not happen and a month later was the last time I saw this person. I’m not sitting around wondering if he improved himself. I am pretty sure I know the answer to that. They don’t do self reflection and look down on those that do.

    1. A Victor says:

      Lindseymarie, my ex wouldn’t have cared a bit but I would’ve had to find childcare! No support whatsoever from him.

      1. lindseymarie says:

        What’s interesting is therapy made me realize he was toxic so it actually helped me to leave him! I’m sure the support wasn’t genuine since he also basically told me psychology is worthless. Another contradiction of many.

        1. A Victor says:

          Yes, do many contradictions!

        2. A Victor says:

          Oops, should say “so” many…

  3. A Victor says:

    My mother hates anything to do with therapy or psychology, she doesn’t think it does anyone any good, certainly not her. My ex would go, when I complained enough, but only to appease me, not because he needed to look at anything or change anything, and he didn’t. The summer narc said it straight up, he’s just fine the way he is. All so different and yet the same result. I find this fascinating.

    1. lickemtomorrow says:

      My mother would consider it ‘weak’ to see a therapist. She despises weakness. And, of course, always made me feel like I was the one who had the problem! It is fascinating, AV. Especially when you begin to untangle it all.

      1. A Victor says:

        Same with my mother! I was on antidepressants for a short time about 20 years ago, she still doesn’t know, the judgement and guilt trips would have done me in! And for no good reason, it’s none of her business.

        1. lickemtomorrow says:

          It’s amazing, isn’t it, how we fold into ourselves with parents like these? That’s how I would describe it. And yes, much of that relates to judgement. Not sure about your mother, but mine was also a ‘gloater’. She would, at the same time, love to see me fall. So she despised any weakness, but took enjoyment from the fall. I’m guessing that relates to her sense of superiority and the rest of the sick twisted mentality of the narcissist.

          I can understand you keeping it from her, AV. Any you’re right. It is none of her business x

          1. A Victor says:

            LET, wow, the similarities in stories here just astound me! My mother, same! The gloat, that’s when I’d see the smirk a lot too! And she hates weakness, unless it’s dependence on her, and loves to see me fail and swoop in as the savior! Ugh, so ridiculously annoying! On the flip side, she also wants to be dependent on me, nope.

            If you mean by “fold in to ourselves” that we just don’t share with them and they don’t know us, you’re exactly correct! That is my relationship with my mother. It used to make me sad, years ago, but I have long since accepted it and been grateful that my relationship with my children is solid. Since my dad is gone, my mom has been upsetting everyone in our home and my other kids that visit, she’s desperate for fuel, I think. She’s been largely alone because she’s so nasty to everyone. It’s really sad but it’s not worth it to try.

          2. lickemtomorrow says:

            The similarities can be astounding at times, AV, and the best part is knowing you’re not alone or going mad when you discover other people have had almost the exact same experience.

            My mother did not swoop in as a saviour, but in order to maintain or bolster her facade she would provide the necessary assistance when it suited her. It was all about control and no doubt that’s where the gloating comes from, too. Instead of a normal mother seeing a need and responding, she would gloat at the misfortune and ultimately it was at her behest whether she provided the help that was needed. The last thing I would do was ask for help. I knew that it was a method of control and I fought hard to resist it. Just the thought of it sickens me now. How a mother could do that to her child.

            And you have interpreted my thought on folding in on ourselves well there. My mother also diminished me. She made me feel small and insignificant at every opportunity she got so she could feel superior. I never understood my mother envied me, but now I know about narcissists and envy I’d say that’s what was at the bottom of that. Once again, how can a mother envy her own child? I love to see my children succeed and encourage them every step of the way. They will do bigger and better things than me and I will be glad. I would never want to take that away from them.

            It must be really difficult living your mother at the moment and no doubt she is missing the fuel provided by your father and maybe the attention his illness and passing brought her. Sadly she will become more isolated, but it will be because of her own behaviour. The fact is she is completely self centred as a narcissist so no one else’s needs will be considered. I’m sure being here and having HGs advice will help with whatever is to come, AV xox

      2. Bubbles 🍾 says:

        Dearest lickemtomorrow,
        Same with my mum !
        Mine hates weak people and people who have mental issues …… yet she (narcs ) creates the issues in the first place, she smoke n drank n partayed
        She brags she’s not an addictive person, yet, she’s obsessed with her cats, hoarding, her ideas, her dress style and was obsessed with going to psychic readings and what they said
        Mum went to the hospital a couple of years ago after a fall, she said she wasn’t going to hang around and wait for the doctor …. “stuff that” she said …… so she tried to escape …. they rang me and told me they’d ‘lost’ my mum … I thought she had died ! They just couldn’t find her 😂
        Treatment ? They think everyone else needs it !

        The weasel only went for ‘treatment’ counselling to continue getting his veterans gold card…
        They get more money if they have PTSD !
        Never once in the whole time I knew him, did he display PTSD signs … he even ADMITTED to me his was psyching the psych !

        Our son is now seeing a therapist, I wonder why…….hmmmmm ? 🤔
        Luv Bubbles xx 😘

        1. lickemtomorrow says:

          Ah, Bubbles, so interesting how its everyone else who ends up in therapy when they are involved with a narc. That probably says it all, and I hope your son has a decent therapist who might potentially see through the narc. It sure wouldn’t hurt to have them on your side. Likely the narc would then just find a way to get him to change therapists! I’m sure they do that, too.

          And the weasel obviously knew what he was doing feeling free enough to admit it. They are so sure of themselves and never in it for the right reasons.

          LOL to your mother and her antics. She really takes the cake in so many ways! You are an epic survivor, Bubbles, and I always enjoy reading your witty banter about your mother, though I know at the same time it covers a lot of pain. It’s one way to handle it.

          My narc ex-husband also wasn’t one for hospitals and I wonder if that is a general narc thing, too. They reject that element of weakness which being in hospital necessarily entails. So they reject it. Though I did hear HG say he would accept the succour of a lovely nurse after the narcissistic surgeon had done his job and patched him up!

          1. Bubbles 🍾 says:

            Dearest lickemtomorrow,
            I’ve ascertained now, anyone who is a puzzle, talks in riddles, doesn’t make sense, bids for attention, frustrating as hell or is complicated to figure out …..narc alert !
            Hmmmmm, that’s pretty much everyone 🤣
            You can tell all the empaths, we’re the ones with all mental issues and stresses ……… from all the above ! 😂

            The weasel ended up in hospital after a heart attack, loved the attention from the nurses n medical staff, thrived on it and after he came out had everyone’s sympathy, didn’t like the fact he had to take medication forever …. boo hoo!
            He brought it on himself, by overindulging in fatty, sugary n creamy foods, didn’t exercise, stayed up late, didn’t sleep well and was obese !
            They’re their own worst enemy ! 😂
            Isn’t it ironic, that when my covert step dad died, I was the one that organised his death and had the final say …..same applies to my mum…. hehe
            Luv Bubbles xx 😘

          2. lickemtomorrow says:

            Hi Bubbles, I think you’ve summed narcs up nicely in the first paragraph. Narc alert is right! Far better if we could save ourselves the agony xox Couldn’t do that unfortunately with our parents.

            The weasel sounds like a bit of victim narcissist to me. He lapped that up 😛 And was obviously his own worst enemy in terms of his lifestyle. I’m sure you’re glad to be shot of him.

            And getting the last word on the narc would be the greatest pleasure. Especially if it goes some way towards the healing <3

        2. NarcAngel says:

          “Isn’t it ironic, that when my covert step dad died, I was the one that organised his death and had the final say …”

          Speaking for myself…after a lifetime of cleaning up their mess, it’s my pleasure to finally take out the garbage.

          1. Bubbles 🍾 says:

            Dearest NarcAngel,
            You summed it up to perfection !
            Thank you
            Luv Bubbles xx 😘

    2. lindseymarie says:

      Yes in the last conversation I had with the narc he said he’s fine the way he is and had no plans to attend therapy or make any changes. I never told my narc family members I’m in therapy. Why bother. They wouldn’t care or see its value and I don’t need any validation from them on the subject. I do think they see it as a weakness when in reality it takes great strength to look inside yourself.

      1. A Victor says:

        I agree, we don’t need the judgement when were already hurting and seeking help. For me though, I have found more help here, in HG’s materials and in this blog than I ever did in counseling. They always wanted to rehash my part but have no real way to move beyond it and certainly not answers as to why it happened. It happened because I had a narcissist, probably more than one, in my life. Learning that alone has been beyond anything is learned in many visits to several different therapists spread over twenty years. And of course learning about my mother’s problem and how it affected her and me and the rest of us, and how best to handle it, life changing. Likewise about my Nex (learned that term from A Grimoire of Narcissism yesterday:)). Yes, it takes great strength to look inside ourselves. We are strong and capable, and worthy of being treated well.

        1. A Victor says:

          “Rehash my past*,” not part. I was responding on my phone earlier and it is so quick on the autocorrects! Drives me crazy!

      2. lickemtomorrow says:

        I agree it takes a great deal of strength to look inside yourself and face your demons.

        Something the narc will never do because seeing theirs will be the end of them.

        1. A Victor says:

          LET, I have wondered and debated with myself about this, would it actually be the end of them or are they just so afraid of this that they cannot do it. Or, are they so content with their effectiveness that there is no need? Or, is this effectiveness an excuse to not allow themselves permission? Which makes it then a case of will not do it. It is a question I’ve had. I mean, the creature is them, they’re human, so, how could it be so bad? I don’t know.

          1. lickemtomorrow says:

            I think if I look at it from the narcissist’s perspective, one HG has so adequately described, they cannot tolerate any exposure to the creature.

            If you imagine someone who has all their self defence mechanisms broken down then you can also imagine the horror that might ensue.
            They have no protection from what they fear the most and as far as the false self goes with the narcissist it would be the end of them. Because the illusion would necessarily be shattered. A narcissist survives and thrives on the illusion they have created. If that is gone, then figuratively speaking, so is the narcissist. If you add to that the fact the narcissist long ago lost the ability to answer the question “who are you?” they are left with nothing. With the false self gone and no ‘real’ self to replace it, I’m sure the narcissist would experience that like a big black hole. And to have to look at what you have been hiding from yourself by self reflecting must be terrifying for the narcissist. Also impossible, as HG explains the self defence mechanism prevents the narcissist from doing so.

            You’re not the only one here will have debated with themselves about the issue, AV, and I’ve gone back and forth on it as well. When you are not the narcissist it’s almost impossible to put yourself in their shoes as their thinking and experience is so alien to ours. I wish they did have the ability to self-reflect, but then they wouldn’t be narcissists and we wouldn’t be here xox

    3. Alexissmith2016 says:

      Interesting. My mother was obsessed with medical attention of any kind and I was always taken to therapy or the doctors as a child – there was nothing wrong with me! At all! She wasn’t on a level as someone with munchausen by proxy or anything close to it, but I certainly had lots of scans, treatments and procedures I didn’t need.

      My husband’s mother was totally opposite to mine to the point where he would have broken bones and nothing done about it. We’ve worked together to bring some normality to it. It was quite odd when we were first together though.

      1. A Victor says:

        Oh, has, my mom, victim cadre, loves doctors! Has no time for pshycology is all. She didn’t take us to the doctor a lot, unless we needed it, but she goes every chance she gets. That would be an interesting difference to bring together.

        1. Bubbles 🍾 says:

          Dearest A Victor,
          On the other scale of the spectrum …..what do hypochondriac narcs get ?
          ATTENTION !!!!!!
          I rest my case 🤣
          Luv Bubbles xx 😘

          1. A Victor says:

            Oh no, more typos! I was on a roll today!! Geez.

            Anyway, thanks Bubbles! I know, that’s what she loves about the doctor! And, she loves telling anyone who will listen all about her visits too! I don’t listen. We have all called her a hypochondriac for years! Your case is absolutely rested!! 🙂

        2. A Victor says:

          Psychology. I can actually spell.

          1. Bubbles 🍾 says:

            Dearest A Victor,
            Me too, however, strange things happen after I press send
            Also, Auto correct lies ! How’s that for blame shifting ?
            Luv Bubbles xx 😘

          2. A Victor says:

            Bubbles, every time I see “pshycology” I am laughing!! That one was all me just being in too big of a hurry! But, yes, many times I am surprised by what my phone does!! Haha!

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