How to Make the Narcissist Obsessed With You

107 thoughts on “How to Make the Narcissist Obsessed With You

  1. Bubbles 🍾 says:

    Dear Mr Tudor,
    Well constructed, important and essential advice
    Thank you
    Luv Bubbles xx 😘

  2. BC30 says:

    Fabulous! Because I’m really over learning about narcs and focused on us empaths right now. I will listen a bit later.

    1. A Victor says:

      BC30, I’ve been enjoying learning about empaths a lot too!

  3. Matt says:

    First of all… great blog! I appreciate everything you put out here, it helps, and I agree never try to out manipulate the Narcissist. It won’t work. It just seems though most advice for an empath is geared towards the Narcissists needs and trying to rob him of fuel. I think it generally conveys empaths as week hapless victims. And while we swallow abuse in heavy doses, that also builds our character and resolve. Once you cross the line of certain empaths we can be as cold and mirror like a narcissist. I have no contacted family members that cross a line. I know this is about obsession but for an empath it’s more about justice. And while you think that you get fuel off any reaction. At a certain point I don’t care about your fuel. I care about mine. And when you finally cross that line and I have no need for your love bombing, manipulation, golden periods, or charm. I don’t mind letting you know that I am the morally superior person in a conversation, a reminder, or even a look… and I don’t have to manipulate you or anyone into thinking that I am superior and morally superior, I just am. And you know it.

  4. Sharyn says:

    HG thank you for your audio video – rather than the written word, it is a bonus to hear a voice as well – gives another dimension.

    Given that this is the first one I have heard you speak so quickly with a balanced tone (sometimes in audios you drift out of audio which leaves me thinking you don’t care, getting a drink or whatever, or perhaps just for effect).

    Or perhaps this one is of special interest to you – so, more accidental, respectful focus to your listeners.

    For me – I understand you are an expert Narc – I’m an expert Female.

    You make a living (or who knows part living) from detailing your physios – which is fine – yet you never give credit to your so called victims. Obsessed, may be the case for a percentage, but not for all.

    I think you write the book far too soon – keep researching.

    What if I know who you are?!


    1. HG Tudor says:

      You don’t.

  5. lindseymarie says:

    Happy to say I moved beyond that quite a while ago! It’s a common feeling in the beginning though post escape and prior to fully understanding narcissism. Even when we are the one who discarded them. Plus they don’t do obsessions like us empaths do. If we are providing fuel they can seem obsessed but if we are not we may as well not even exist. There’s no longing for us, no regret, no reminiscing. No love. No remorse. Just them living their lives in search of fuel and control. We were but a blip on the radar to them.

  6. Witch says:

    I love this!
    It can be such a struggle to stop yourself from desiring to be liked by the narcissist. I know this feeling too well having grown up sandwiched between a few different dominating personalities
    Cheers Unc

  7. Super says:

    This is such valuable information HG, thank you.

    I’d like to add one thing that helped me in a few past relationships in case it helps someone else.

    I know relationships with narcissists can leave people feeling depleted, lost & like a shell of their former selves. I think this is the underlying cause of the desire to “make the narcissist obsessed with you.”

    I figured out about mirroring when I was in my twenties by observing how guys I met reacted to me. I didn’t understand that it was a love bombing technique. But I was able to recognize at least philosophically that it was a game of some kind that they were playing with me. I still fell for it, but I saw it. And I saw it repeat time and time again, especially with my serious boyfriends & eventually my husband.

    During the psychotic emotions of the de-valuing phases, I slowly & silently began to use the mirroring the narcissist had utilized to remind myself of who I was.

    What do you miss exactly about the golden phase? What traits does the narc have that you can’t live without? What hobbies or activities do you miss doing together? What makes the narc so classy, popular, well-read, athletic, interesting, intellectually stimulating, passionate, sexually satisfying, etc. etc. etc.?

    Most of those are actually your traits, your hobbies, your interests, your passions. It is parts of you that you miss. So I began re-engaging on my own with all the things that stimulate me, leaving the partner out of it. It took time but it made leaving (or being left) much easier. It’s helped friends of mine rebuild their lives as well.

    So yes go no contact. But also take time to figure out what you miss so much, what you want from the narc so much – and do those things, be those things – just without the narcissist.

    I swear somewhere in that jumbled mess of what you want in the other person you can find yourself.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Thank you and valid observations.

    2. lindseymarie says:

      Super great advice! We can learn a lot about ourselves through this process and I find it interesting that the golden (bronze in my case) period can teach us about ourselves if we really dig into it and reflect on it. We were basically falling in love with ourselves during that period. Learning what we love about ourselves apart from any relationship is key.

      1. Super says:

        lindseymarie, Bronze period, I love that! I often think of it as a rather brassy gold, not the 24K kind. 😄

        The only part of empath I have a hard time with is victim. I suck at victim, I prefer to turn things around and figure out what I’m doing inside myself that is contributing to this horrible experience.

        My narc dad is a Buddhist, he taught me well…how to blame myself instead of him. LMAO.

        But he missed that little golden nugget – that some of us actually have something inside – and when addressed it can change us, at least that has been my experience.

        1. lindseymarie says:

          I can’t take credit for the Bronze description! Pretty sure HG came up with that and it is fitting.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            HG did indeed come up with it.

        2. njfilly says:

          I agree. I do not like considering myself a victim. I prefer to say I have been victimized.

          I detest a victim mentality in anybody.

    3. NarcAngel says:

      Solid suggestion.

    4. A Victor says:

      Super, this is such a great comment! I have recently been considering just this, what did I enjoy before he came along? It all went away with him in my life. I was so young, it has been difficult to remember! Ha! And, it was pre-kids mostly, my oldest was a baby when I met him. So, going way back to that time! So exciting! I loved car shows! And fishing and shooting! And hiking and camping and climbing trees!! He had me doing childcare (I felt like a nanny), housekeeping (which must be done but now to my level of comfort, not his), cooking (but he wouldn’t eat usually) etc and nothing joyous, nothing from my past. Oh yes, now this grandma is gonna be climbing trees again!!!

      1. Super says:

        A Victor,
        I am sad to hear what you went through – I have seen so many people disappear in relationships. Valuable, interesting, intelligent people – 2 years & they vanish. It has always bothered me. Keep fighting to find yourself again. You are worth finding. 🥰

        1. A Victor says:

          No need to be sad, it has been over a decade since he left and I have been busy raising kids until quite recently. So, now, with them grown it is time to reassess. It took many many more than 2 years for me to lose myself, and I have been reemerging throughout the last ten years but just arrived at the point where my personal hobbies can come to the fore again. I’m very excited about this! I used to love doing those things and now I have new little people, and their parents, that I can take with me sometimes. I do thank you for the encouragement!

    5. cadavera says:

      I can’t say it in a way that would show how much I loved this brilliant response so I’ll just say thank you for helping me by saying something I hadn’t heard put this way before.

    6. njfilly says:


      Great comment.

      What helped me in my narc relationship, as well as all the others, was that I kept my independence. I always had my own interests, hobbies, sports, activities, etc. and I would not give these up for a relationship.

      Keeping myself occupied with my own interests helps me feel satisfied with myself as a person. I take my activities seriously and enjoy learning and doing them well. Nothing gives a person greater self confidence than knowing how to master something they enjoy, or at least learn to do beyond a beginner level. I like to learn things to the extreme, if possible, then I begin to teach others.

      Having many activities also helps me not feel alone if I am not in a relationship. My mind, and attention, are always occupied with something, so I never feel lonely. Even if I am just watching videos, writing, or meditating. I am a bit of a loner, though, so this may not be the best solution for everybody. (Also, I must be honest and say that occasionally pursuing men for sex is also one of my interests. I’m a naughty girl, I know.)

      If I begin to date a man, I make only minor changes to my schedule. Whether I am in a relationship, or not, the base of my existence stays the same. If I ride my horse on Friday night, that does not change. I am simply not available on that night, and we meet on Saturday instead. Then, during my narc relationship when I was being given a silent treatment (even if sometimes I didn’t even realize I was being given a silent treatment) I just continued with my life as it always had been. He entered my life. He left my life. I locked the door so he cannot enter again, and my life stayed the same. Actually, it has improved thanks to him, having introduced me to the existence of narcissists and explained my chaotic upbringing, and the mental instability that followed.

      I understand this would not be possible for those who married and had children with their narcs. I’m very thankful I was never in that position. I can’t imagine what it would be like to have children with a narcissist. It was bad enough being raised by them and surrounded by them in my family.

      1. A Victor says:

        Hi njfilly, I was thinking about the raising of my children with my ex today. Reading some of the comments and articles here today it dawned on me that raising my children should not have been so challenging. It was made so much more challenging because I was doing it with a narcissist.

        He gave no support, except where it made him happy to do so, he sided with the kids if there was a dispute between them and me, he was literally not home much of the time so I often felt like a single parent, he didn’t involve me in any decision making so I often felt like a nanny. As a result, I have thought that raising kids is the most challenging time in a couple’s and an individual’s life. Today it struck me that it was much easier after he left. That is a sad statement to what the real problem likely was. And, it shouldn’t have been such a difficult, joyless time, had we been working together it would have been fun and fulfilling alongside the challenges.

        Just another thing stolen, or did I give it away? The years and the opportunity to do something so important correctly? I still gave it my all and am thankful I did, in that regard I have no regrets, but I wish it would’ve been different for us as a couple.

        1. njfilly says:

          Oh, your comment makes me sad. I’m so sorry you had such difficulty with your children. It brings me back to my childhood. Both my parents are narcissists (I believe) and it was both them against each other, and against me. There was never any family unity and it was a very adversarial atmosphere. My mother often used me as bait for my father. He treated her much better than he ever treated me. The main times I remember them getting along was when they were a team against me. They are sick. Although I’m thankful to be alive, they were not prepared to be parents and should not have had children. They should have started with house plants and worked their way up.

          Please don’t be so hard on yourself. You didn’t know what you were dealing with and you gave it your all. I’m sure you were the calm in the storm for your children. You provided some stability for them. I hope you have a good relationship with your children anyway. Do they recognize any dysfunction in their father?

          1. A Victor says:

            No worries, no need to be sad, it has all resolved long ago, once he left we were free. I had no idea until this fall what I’d been dealing with, but with him gone, it no longer mattered. It only makes me sad at the struggle that didn’t need to be. But I don’t usually think about it, I just enjoy my kids, something he does not have the ability to do, due to his choices. My daughter who is married to a narcissist came home from the hospital with their second yesterday, so I had it on my mind. I see her having the same type of struggle and I hurt for her.

            Two of my kids have not opted to contact him since he left, the other two have a total of 4 times combined. I asked them if it would be good for me to try to resurrect the relationship after they’d seen him, they both gave a resounding no. Not sure why, they just said no. Then I got here, to KTN, and learned that doing so would’ve been very unwise and now I wouldn’t even consider it.

            They all know there are serious issues. The three girls are open to narcissism, my boy, the youngest, is not. But that’s okay, no need for him to accept that at this time, or possibly ever. 🙂

          2. njfilly says:

            Congratulations, grandma!! It’s unfortunate your daughter is married to a narcissist. Does she know what he is? It’s good you did not resurrect the relationship.

            Is your son one of the children that contacted his father? He may not want to know the truth about his dad.

          3. A Victor says:

            Thank you!! Number 5 and number 6 is on the way, all 6 and under but in two different families so no one is overwhelmed. It’s the best.

            I do not think she is aware of what he is but I know she is aware of very deep problems and doesn’t always know what to do.

            I too am glad I didn’t resurrect that relationship, it would just be the same.

            No, he has no interest in contacting his dad. He did not like the summer narc at all and that experience turned him away from the idea of narcissism. He was very up front with me about his observations about that guy and I hope this indicates that he leans more normal. We shall see at some point I suppose. I kind of think he’s an empath though.

          4. njfilly says:

            I feel bad for your daughter who will have to raise her children with a narcissist.

          5. A Victor says:

            So do I . And for her children.

          6. njfilly says:

            Yes, me too. I don’t know what the solution is.

            Those kids are in for a difficult ride. This brings back the nightmare of my own childhood.

          7. A Victor says:

            njfilly, the ACON stories here are heartbreaking. They really can leave us floundering, trying to make sense out of life. I never felt any connection to my family. I really only do to my kids now. But the family I grew up in, none. Your words, no unity and adversarial, are so so fitting. This part of my life is more difficult for me than my children. So many scars, I have never felt really whole. They are sick and they really do hurt us.

          8. A Victor says:

            njfilly, oh no, I hadn’t even thought of that. Oh no. I hope I can get her to think about what I’m learning here. We have discussed it but not in relation to him, of course. I think she is like I was, thinking that what’s happening is normal and to be expected, life is rough. But when I look at her home and that of my second daughter’s, it is night to day. Well, thank you for bringing this point up, I will be redoubling my efforts to educate, carefully so I don’t step on toes and inadvertently shut things down.

          9. njfilly says:

            Whatever happens I hope it is what is best for the children, your daughter, and you. Good luck.

        2. BC30 says:

          AV we are all always doing the best we can with what we have. I couldn’t have changed anything in the past because I didn’t know and if I’d know I wouldn’t lament the past. That though brings me comfort. I have E parents, so I don’t have ACON experience. It is absolutely heartbreak. I cry for them.

          Claudia Conway (Google her), I believe, is a child who is being abused by famous narcissists. I can barely watch what she posts on social media. It makes me cry and makes me angry too. I watch to the videos to learn and hope she gets out soon. At least she recognizes something it wrong. 😔

          1. A Victor says:

            BC30, you were very blessed with your parents, perhaps this is why you never were an IPPS, also a blessing. I learned yesterday that both of my parents were narcissists. I had known certain things always but now it is confirmed. It was not fun, needless to say. I am happy my kids had one E parent at least. I will Google Claudia, thank you.

      2. Super says:


        We sound very similar, albeit you seem way stronger in being able to keep your independence so resolutely.

        Thank you so much for sharing your experience. I think that is what is so difficult with the narcissist relationship for me – they seek to slowly take over, consume and then assault your life, activities and eventually, way of being. Such a mess to untangle!

        Yes, I’m lucky too – no kids, what a freaking nightmare that would be. I never wanted any and my ex-husband needed too much attention himself to want any distractions.

        1. njfilly says:


          The narcissists that affected me the most are my family. Both parents and my brother.

          I never had any problem ending my romantic relationships and thankfully I am very independent.

    7. Empath007 says:

      Wonderful advice!

      Unfortunately the thing I miss the most with me narc is sex…. and it’s getting a bit boring to rely on myself for that one haha.

      It’s really too bad one can not accomplish a true sex with no strings attached with a narc.

      1. HG Tudor says:

        Have sex with a non narcissist. Problem solved.

        1. Empath007 says:

          I tend to only attract your kind HG. While I’m not an awkward person I have some difficulty attracting men… always have. For a person such as yourself who is a master at attracting anything his heart desires I understand it would be hard to relate. But not all of us have this skill, I can not just have whomever I want. Men do not respond to me that way.

          1. alexissmith2016 says:

            Awww E007 I bet you do attract them too, men who are not Ns just don’t hit on women in the same way.

            It’s interesting though, a good friend of mine, a lovely empath, (likely has a considerable amount of geezer, not full on geezer though) has always dated Ns. She recognises this now and recently started dating someone new. She was upset about how the message exchanges were going because she was so used to being love bombed. She would send me his messages and be so upset. When I read them they just seemed really lovely and normal. But she found it very difficult to deal with normal and it took a bit of explaining.

          2. Empath007 says:

            It’s OK. I’m not Sad about it. But some people (like myself) are not seducers. I don’t attract men like moths to a flame… so HGs answer is not the solution for me. It seems that simplistic to someone like him… but I’m like him. So therefore the advice doesn’t really apply to me.

          3. A Victor says:

            I have the same issue Empath007. It is really frustrating when sometimes I would just enjoy a conversation with a man but…none to be found. It has always been that way, something about me is off-putting. Or maybe I’m just lousy at picking up on cues.
            When I used to drink, that was different, but I don’t wish to do that now, it made for some questionable choices. Anyway, I do feel your pain on this, where do we go just to meet a nice man??? And how do we proceed to draw one in??? Haha, on another thread I just stated I’m fine not having one! Lol, the dichotomy makes me laugh!

          4. Empath007 says:

            Yes A Victor. I concluded in my life some people”got it”
            And some people don’t haha. I most certianly.. do not.

            And when I do attract a mate… oh lucky me he’s a psycho path ! Haha.

            This is something I’m learning to accept. And I’m trying to understand that just because I don’t have an easy time attracting someone does not mean I’m worthless. It’s only really a bummer when I feel
            Lonely. Which has been happening a lot in the last few months.

            But I kept it together. Did not contact the narc. So all is well.

  8. Claire says:

    Brilliant! I must admit my first thought when I read the title of this material was “WTF?! Why? I don’t give a f…about them!”
    Like all these cheesy and dangerous at the same time sh…ty advices all over the web , books, magazines “ How to make him/her/
    them obsessed over you “

    Then I clicked the button to start listening to the material and immersed in the pure logic and wisdom.
    Thank you, Master!

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Indeed and this is part of providing the correct education. There is far too much telling people what they want to hear rather than what they need to hear. Too many providers churn out incorrect information.

      1. Super says:

        I wonder if that is because many are narcissists – and are either blind to their own manipulations or covering them on purpose?

        I guess normals would have a hard time seeing things when they are the opposite of how they seem too?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Those who misinform are either
          1. Well intentioned victims/providers who do not understand narcissism fully and make errors, and
          2. Unaware Mid Range Narcissists who pump out incorrect and dangerous advice based on their need for control which they do not know is the case. To them it manifests as revenge against the “narcissist” who usually is a genuine victim who is being harangued by the narcissist.
          These individuals really need to be ignored and removed. Too many people are misled by them.

  9. lickemtomorrow says:

    I feel like I just got sat in a chair and was given “the talk” by a concerned mentor.

    Perhaps there was even a little finger wagging involved.

    Have to say I haven’t had that feeling before, but there was a sense (in my own mind and current circumstances) this one was meant for me. I know I left the narc a teaser not long ago after a hoover attempt and this video is a reminder not to play with fire. Better put down the matches.

    1. Asp Emp says:

      LET, I read your comment and I have to say (or rather, admit) that I understand your words when you say “I feel like I just got sat in a chair and was given “the talk” by a concerned mentor. Perhaps there was even a little finger wagging involved” – there are certainly times when I was younger when this would happen, usually by a narcissist, so effectively, maybe, just maybe I “threatened their control” – unintentionally, of course 😉

      Well, if you’re not going to use the matches, can I have them? (laughing).

      1. BC30 says:

        I read “matches” as “machetes” WTF is wrong with me? Haha

        1. Asp Emp says:

          Lacking a visit to Specsavers? 😉

          1. BC30 says:

            Haha I have better than 20/20. I’m just violent.

        2. lickemtomorrow says:

          Haha, BC30, don’t tempt me 😛

        3. A Victor says:

          Haha, that is funny!

        4. Loved it ( MACHETES ) good thing I didn’t have one handy .

      2. lickemtomorrow says:

        Haha, AspEmp, you can have the matches 😉

        And thankfully I didn’t feel I was being scolded (to borrow Shannah’s expression 🙂 ) in a narcy sense. Sometimes HGs expressions of concern read more like empathic expressions. And that’s the way I took it. He cared enough to warn us. I know that’s probably not the way HG sees it, but every now an again he pulls on my empathic heart strings. It’s who I am <3 When all is said and done I think HG would have made an excellent teacher. And the fact is he is a teacher. At times I get a sense of HGs empathic father finding a way to break through his deeply entrenched narcissism. Call me crazy!

        And I better stop talking now or I'm going to be "scolded" for letting my ET get the better of me xox

        1. Asp Emp says:

          Ah, LET, thank you for the matches….. yes, HG is an educator – more than many time-served qualified teachers too! You’re not crazy. Nothing wrong with letting your ET increase, as long as it is not for the wrong person….. I’ll get a bollocking now for saying that and all……. roll on the ‘lashes’….. (laughing)

          1. lickemtomorrow says:

            LOL to the lashes, AspEmp 😛 Hopefully you won’t get a bollocking either! I think a little increase in ET is forgivable in the circumstances. After all, it’s a little rise for HG. And not for some other narcissist who I would hope to get a bollocking for in similar circumstances. Thanks for saying I’m not crazy. It’s possible HG has taken traits from his father to help form part of his facade. That is another take on this particular topic. I want it to be genuine (concern), but wherever it is coming from it has been tremendously helpful to me again today. Haha, getting a bit teary now, so definitely a rise in the ET. Time to take a break xox

          2. Asp Emp says:

            LET, “After all, it’s a little rise for HG. And not for some other narcissist” – that’s why I said “Nothing wrong with letting your ET increase, as long as it is not for the wrong person”. HG understands empathy very well and indeed, HG does have a ‘facade’ – in which, on both points, I can relate to, because I have stated on another thread that I realise why and when I ‘withdraw’ into myself (basically, raising my ‘protection shield’).

            We all have times when we get emotional and that is permittable under the circumstances. I get angry and lash out and at the same time, I have brought up my ‘protective shield’ – at least I now recognise when I am doing it and why. ET, in my view, comes in different forms and levels that can be triggered by anything.

            Sometimes a break is good, sometimes it’s better to let it all out – that is what I do. Hope you feel a little easier today LET x

          3. lickemtomorrow says:

            Thank you AspEmp <3 I appreciate your thoughts and it helps to let the emotion out at times for sure. I find there are times mine take me by surprise, like this moment did, and so I stepped away for a short time x HG timed an article after that perfectly regarding empathy and irony of the same when it comes to the narcissist. He has an ability to touch and reach places within me that at times occur unexpectedly and are themselves unexpected coming from one who declares they have no empathy. It is a trick, or sleight of hand which is very effective. There. If I put it in those terms I can make it what it is and not what I want it to be. Like a magician with his tricks. If you know how he does it, it is still remarkable to watch but the mystery is gone. You are confronted with reality. It's clever, but it's not genuine magic in the sense you thought it was.

            There you go. Some thoughts from me on HGs empathy. And how I am often taken in by 'magic' in the sense of childish wonderment and delight. And how it can pin my emotions like an arrow. Bullseye in this case <3 xox

          4. lickemtomorrow says:

            OK, I need to fix this sentence so it makes sense … “HG timed an article after that perfectly regarding empathy and irony when it comes to the narcissist.”

          5. Asp Emp says:

            LET, thank you for responding….. it obviously has been one of those ‘times’ for some of us….. hope you’re feeling better now x

            I think HG ‘times everything’…… he is The Ultra, which is above a greater narcissist…. ever heard of the expression “God is watching” ? ……

          6. lickemtomorrow says:

            I am feeling better after processing some of my thoughts here and also with your support, AspEmp <3 Thank you. I hope you are doing OK, too. Moments of heightened ET will come and go. This was just an unexpected moment for me and all of my own doing. I let myself sink into a thought process which generated a heightened level of emotional thinking. Sometimes I am my own worst enemy.

            No doubt HG times everything to suit his purposes. Thankfully his timing matched my need for a shot of logic yesterday. I can still very much connect to my moment of empathic response yesterday, but I am not beholden to it. That now is where the difference lies.

            And I have heard the expression "God is watching". Indeed He is. For some reason the thought never makes me fearful. I am good with God … at least I hope so 😉

          7. Asp Emp says:

            LET, glad to know you are doing better now. We cannot always help it when our ET levels fluctuate but we can learn to understand it and recognise when it is happening and what triggered it. I suppose it is about getting the ‘balance’ right, at the right time, the right place – easier said than done on occasions.

          8. lickemtomorrow says:

            Definitely easier said than done, AspEmp <3

            Becoming aware of emotional thinking and how it operates is a huge bonus. It's often how we talk ourselves into things without even realizing. And I like the way HG separates it out from everyday normal emotions which we all have and which need to be recognized as such.

            Thanks again for your input and support, AspEmp xox

          9. Asp Emp says:

            Thank you LET. I agree with what you have said in your comment. Glad to have talked with you on this. Look after yourself x

          10. A Victor says:

            LET and Asp Emp, HG is amazing at timing things, whether it’s intentional or not, no idea, but it has literally brought me to tears on a number of occasions. I hope you two are doing better soon, I am missing you! I wish I could help.

            LET, I am so sorry if my comment earlier hit you badly, I didn’t realize how much you were struggling. I would never want to hurt you, or anyone here. You have been such a blessing to me, I hope you are okay.

          11. Asp Emp says:

            AV, thank you for your words. Yes, crying does occur. We have good and bad days. There’s more to HG than meets the eye. You are helping, AV, just by being here 🙂

          12. lickemtomorrow says:

            Oh no, AV, please don’t be sorry! It wasn’t anything to do with you, but more a state I had gotten myself into <3 I know you would not want to hurt me or anyone else deliberately, so that was never in question xox As I read your comment I became emotional again, but that was probably because I hadn't lowered my ET enough at the time I read it. Much like what you say in your first paragraph about how some of HGs work has brought you to tears. Sometimes other commenter's posts bring us to tears. We are emotional creatures. Thank God. For the most part I wouldn't want to be any other way. I was appreciative of your comment and please don't think otherwise. I've enjoyed your input since you arrived, AV, and I can honestly say you've been a blessing to me, too <3 We've all come through some dark times, and sharing some of those things and shoring eachother up makes such a difference. Thank you for your thoughtful comment. And I am fine xox

          13. A Victor says:

            LET, I’m glad you’re fine! <3

          14. lickemtomorrow says:

            Thank you again, AV,and I am <3

            Hope you are doing OK, too x

        2. A Victor says:

          LET, I have had the same sense regarding HG’s concern for us, I have to remind myself that he wants to claim our success and can’t unless we succeed. I think I heard him say something like that once. But, it is confusing sometimes because it does come across as empathy. He is probably the best teacher I’ve ever had though, from that aspect.

          1. lickemtomorrow says:

            Thank you, AV. This one is still making me a little emotional, so I won’t say anymore for now xox <3

        3. Shannah says:

          i think i felt like that bc im like actively wanting all the things HG was like basically saying no one should ever want lol 🙂 its like i wanted to be like “..but.. what if.. what about.. maybe i could.. maybe he just…” hahaha u know

          1. lickemtomorrow says:

            Haha, Shannah, I hear you. HG has put a stop to the shenanigans and thoughts of arguing the point with him. He knows best <3

    2. Super says:


      I think that if the narc is still on your radar – even in your thoughts – and especially if there is even the slightest emotional charge related, you are still hooked. Pull the hook out, let it heal. It’s not a game anyone can win.

      I learned so many times that I think I’m teasing them, but they are just torturing me.

      (I’m still guilty at times, but logic prevails more times than not.)

      1. lickemtomorrow says:

        Hi Super, thanks for the reminder about letting logic prevail <3 It's not my strong point and certainly not when it comes to the narc-ex. He messed with my logic and sometimes I'm still out to mess with his. His narc logic that is that allows him to think he can hoover me and I will be OK with that. Good point about the narc continuing to torture me while I think I have the upper hand by teasing him. The emotional charge might be in the negative, but it's still there apparently. And I know I can't 'win'. I just want to kick his ass … again!

        Appreciate your input x

        1. Super says:

          Thank you so much for sharing lickemtomorrow, I can SO relate to the ass kicking desire – with me it is always this desire to “make an injustice right”. 🥰

          Before finding HG’s site, I utilized the “Art of War” by Sun-tzu in my dealings with narcs (& others) due to the “warlike” atmosphere those people brought to my life.

          Sun-tzu states that “successful war follows the path of deception”. From that I deciphered:

          1. Narcs are supremely arrogant by definition.

          2. Someone supremely arrogant will think I am sitting around missing them, wanting them back or figuring out a way to contact them.

          3. I may be doing all those things, but if winning this war is the goal, I have to be deceptive.
          So I deduced that “no contact” is truly the only way to win.

          I had to keep overriding my reality – Emotional Thinking – and focusing on the point at hand. Winning the war. Having that goal helps push me through & maintain my resolve. If I have a moment of weakness, I consider I lost a battle & I refocus my efforts on the larger war.

          Eventually, it becomes less of an inner battle & maintaining “no contact” becomes effortless.

          1. A Victor says:

            Hi Super, the summer narc insisted I read The Art of War. How ironic. Haha! Then he talked about it ad nauseum at me. Ugh. It is a good book though, I had read it years ago and enjoyed reading it again. I would not use it against a narcissist though, no, I’d rather GOSO. Too much work, I’m starting to think relationships shouldn’t be so much work, if they’re healthy. Thanks for your comment, you have clearly given all of this a lot of thought, your comments make good food for thought!

          2. HG Tudor says:

            The Art of Logic. HG approves.

          3. A Victor says:

            My exterior says a calm ‘thank you HG.’ My interior is doing a happy dance, ‘HG approves!! HG approves!! I’m getting it, woo-hoo!!’. Thank you!

          4. Asp Emp says:

            AV – you made me laugh – I use the description ‘the inner me’ when you are referring to “my interior”. It’s like an ‘excitement’ moment. Brilliant to see your words on this.

          5. A Victor says:

            Oh geez, just saw the third line on your number three! Your end result is GOSO! Sorry I missed that! But glad to know it!

          6. lickemtomorrow says:

            Thank you for your comment and the backup, Super <3 It means a lot to know others are in the battle with you who are also fighting on the same front. Sisters in arms xox

            I haven't read "The Art of War", but I will put it on my reading list. That's basically what it comes down to with the narcissist. I won't go as far as to say a war of good against evil (though it definitely feels that way sometimes), but it is a battle – HG reminds us as much with ourselves as with the narcissist. And I also have a huge penchant for fighting injustice which is probably where the narc still has a hook in me. I'm going to have to learn to be more magnanimous. I have some good examples for that.

            I went into stealth mode to bring my narc to breaking point. So I utilized the art of deception in doing that. He didn't know what was happening or what hit him. He had to retreat. Now he has the arrogance to think he can enjoin me in the "war" again. I need to hold my fire 😉 So yes, arrogance is a thing. And winning a war by not engaging is a thing also. I think you're on the right track there.

            Refocusing as we speak xox

          7. njfilly says:

            I enjoyed the audio book The Art of War years ago. I think I’ll listen again.

          8. Super says:

            lickemtomorrow & njfilly,
            It helps immensely to have a coterie of support! I’m thankful I’ve found this site & have been able to read about your experiences. I love that – “bring my narc to breaking point”.

            Art of War is great! I read it & reasoned out that my boyfriends were using it to win with me. Like it was some secret code they had been taught, lol. So I took notes & tried to reverse engineer.

            From my favorite paragraph:
            “When you are able to act, feign incapacity; when deploying, feign inactivity; when you are close, appear to be far off; when you are distant, appear close. When your enemy seeks advantage, lure him further; if he is in disorder, crush him; if he is organized, be ready for him; when he is strong, avoid him; when he is angry, goad him further; if he is humble, be overbearing; if he is resting, harry him; if his armies are united, split them. Attack where he is unprepared, appear where you are least expected…Surprise is the key to victory”.
            (I read goad him further to mean silent treatment)

            No contact is best as HG states but sometimes long-term relationships require a little finesse to end safely. So this a good way to shift the odds. It will anger them, but it’ll also confuse them enough to let you escape or divert their attention to a new source of fuel. Hope this is helpful in some way.

          9. HG Tudor says:

            1. I am pleased to see that you find the support provided by readers here useful to you. That is part of the purpose of the creation of a constructive environment.
            2. “Bring my narc to breaking point.” This should not be a stated aim as this means you remain engaged if you are trying to achieve this, breach of no contact and the appearance of The Devil´s Pitchfork.
            3. The Art of War, you are not in Wall Street you know!

            “When you are able to act, feign incapacity; when deploying, feign inactivity; when you are close, appear to be far off; when you are distant, appear close. When your enemy seeks advantage, lure him further; if he is in disorder, crush him; if he is organized, be ready for him; when he is strong, avoid him; when he is angry, goad him further; if he is humble, be overbearing; if he is resting, harry him; if his armies are united, split them. Attack where he is unprepared, appear where you are least expected…Surprise is the key to victory”.
            (I read goad him further to mean silent treatment)

            No contact is best as HG states but sometimes long-term relationships require a little finesse to end safely. So this a good way to shift the odds. It will anger them, but it’ll also confuse them enough to let you escape or divert their attention to a new source of fuel. Hope this is helpful in some way.

            This is a terrible suggestion.

            “When you are able to act, feign incapacity; – you should not be near a narcissist to feign incapacity. You are unable to do this successfully when near a narcissist (see Why Grey Rock Does Not Work)
            when deploying, feign inactivity; – you should not be catching the narcissists attention in deploying, you will cause a Hoover Trigger
            when you are close, appear to be far off; – No, you should be hidden, not close or appearing far off
            when you are distant, appear close. – No, again this will cause a Hoover Trigger
            When your enemy seeks advantage, lure him further; – No, you are engaging with the narcissist, breach of no contact, appearance of the Devil´s Pitchfork
            if he is in disorder, crush him; – No, you should not know about the state of the narcissist and if you do know, do not act on it, other than to remain in no contact
            if he is organized, be ready for him; – No, be ready with a no contact regime
            when he is strong, avoid him; – Yes, do avoid the narcissist
            when he is angry, goad him further; – Absolutely do not do so, you will invite a whole host of problems
            if he is humble, be overbearing; – No, this is engaging and is a breach of no contact
            if he is resting, harry him; – No, this will provoke and amount to a threat to control
            if his armies are united, split them. – No, this is engagement and a breach of no contact
            Attack where he is unprepared, – Never attack a narcisssit
            appear where you are least expected. – No, stay away from the narcissist
            …Surprise is the key to victory”. – No contact is the key to victory
            (I read goad him further to mean silent treatment) – You never seek to goad the narcissist because it will end badly for you (the Devil´s Pitchfork again)

            You do not end the relationship with some finesse to anger the narcissist, that is completely wrong. It will not confuse the narcissist to let you escape, it will put you squarely in the sights of the narcissist and you will be punished further.

          10. Asp Emp says:

            A great comment, HG.

          11. lickemtomorrow says:

            OK, No.2 is my fault and was my expression.

            Keeping in mind that all happened before I got here, I can honestly say I worked at pushing his buttons. This was part of the response of dialling down my empathic traits while I let my narcissistic traits come to the fore. While it is not recommended, I know you have written about events such as these, HG. The Clash of the Titans. Nobody wins and it will generally end in retreat, which it did. Had I been here before ending the relationship I may have chosen to do things differently. And I’m glad you have clarified the dangers for us once again.

          12. MP says:

            Not sure if the comment I was in the middle of typing got posted accidentally.

            I’m thinking the Art of War approach described by Super might be partially helpful for empaths that are trapped and have no options but to wait for the right moment to escape. I’m thinking the likes of Katie Holmes trapped in the marriage with a controlling narcissist. She was able to make her successful escape which seemed to take Tom Cruise by surprise. She must have really controlled and disciplined herself to not give him any clue of what she was about to do.

          13. HG Tudor says:

            Wrong. Once you know, you go.

          14. MP says:

            I agree HG that NC is the best goal. I just happened to remember Katie Holme’s escape and an article that I have read about it. The article described how it was carefully and well planned and I thought that she did a great job at not giving him any clue. I wondered if that is what Super was describing regarding feigning incapacity etc. while plotting the escape which is the ultimate goal. I think the goal is to escape and implement NC rather than engage in a battle. It is pointless to get in battles that will never get anywhere.

          15. HG Tudor says:

            Planning is sensible but that has to be balanced against the paralysing effect if ET and the risk of tipping off the narcissist as to what you are doing. There is much to be said for getting on with it.

          16. MP says:

            So true HG. I am so amazed at how Katie Holmes was able to do it. It’s definitely not something that is easy to pull off in my opinion and not everyone can do it. I have read too that she has had a lot of guidance from her dad who is a lawyer. It makes me wonder if he’s you’re kind.

          17. MP says:

            *one of your kind

          18. Super says:


            I truly appreciate your time in criticizing my analysis. And I agree with you as well as some of the other comments. I am realizing this may not work for all empaths, and “get out, stay out” is better advice. Will refrain from giving out advice in the future on here.

            I, personally, did require time to plot an escape due to entangled lives, finances, and a bit of mess really.

            I have my own issues – one of which is the supernova effect you describe. It basically turns me into a narcissist TOWARDS THAT ONE PERSON. When that line is crossed (which takes a long time to happen), God help everyone around. The inner effect that cathartic experience has on me – is that I deaden to that one person. Emotional thinking disappears 99% but only related to that one person.

            In the case of my ex-husband, I plotted to remove myself such that I could take everything, seal off my life completely from them, and leave them thinking they were leaving me.

            It worked remarkably well. It took me 16 years to get to the dead inside stage & another 2 years to shift my life around, but once achieved he didn’t stand a chance.

            I realize most empaths don’t get past the emotional thinking, and therefore it wouldn’t work for them. Art of War was my personal manual I used.

            Your advice is better across the board, and I appreciate it. I will add that my ex was a midrange narcissist without your cognitive awareness – thus he was not successful in adjusting his instinctive strategy once mine shifted. Had my ET still been in place related to him, he would’ve been successful as you said.

          19. HG Tudor says:

            You are welcome.

    3. smarinucci1970 says:

      👤🙇‍♂️🤬👺🔥YOUR SO WISE TO SEE THAT .

  10. Shannah says:

    HG, hi.

    I do not want this man to be obsessed with me. The thought that an obsession over me would be a possibility never even crossed my mind because none exists. However, because I am desperate for his attention, I listened to this with a naïve hope that Id learn a way to get it. instead, because I do not want to let go of this, i felt like you were personally scolding me. since that also is an impossibility, I just have a lot more to consider. as i wait…

    You are fascinating. I appreciate all of the valuable knowledge you share. id like to speak with you directly. Maybe soon.


    1. HG Tudor says:

      You are welcome, you will find the audio consultation very useful.

    2. A Victor says:

      Shannah, your comment made me cry, I can so relate. Thank you for sharing.

      1. Shannah says:

        *hugs* it makes me wanna cry that my comment made you cry just because like its sad that we have suffered this kind of emotional turmoil that like is so consuming and corrosive but theres not much compassion or understanding for it to be found out there. thats why im so glad i found this site. thankyou too <3

        1. A Victor says:

          Aww, hugs back Shannah, and thanks! Yes, it is very sad that we’ve been hurt as we have. And then we’re even deceived by ourselves, our ET, to want more from these narcissists, we aren’t given the luxury to just break it off cleanly at the first sign of trouble. (They tell me that will change.:)) And you’re correct, many people out there don’t get it at all and as such offer no help or sympathy. Or “help” that is anything but. Yes, this is a good place for us, especially as we’re just starting out. Again, glad you made it here, I’ve appreciated your comments and it’s been nice to chat. 🙂

  11. A Victor says:

    I don’t want any narcissist obsessed with me. Just completed A Grimoire of Narcissism. I had started it, bits and pieces when I had a specific question, about 6 or 8 weeks ago, maybe more, and it was difficult to understand many of the concepts. Just went through the entire thing again tonight, it answered some recent questions that I’ve had but the exciting thing is that almost all of it made sense! Seeing this deep dive into learning starting to sink in is so exciting! It is so freeing to have this knowledge!

    Also, the videos on YT are getting better all the time! So good. Love the content, the music where applicable, the voices where applicable, everything! I have put a few comments there but almost always take them down again. It is a different community for sure.

    1. Asp Emp says:

      AV, I totally agree with what you say in the second paragraph of your comment here. HG’s videos are great – including the artistry / design that has gone into them. I also agree that it is a different ‘community’ as compared to here on the blog and on Fakebook. At first, I used to comment on Fakebook – for the first couple of weeks anyhow and before I joined the KTN site as I was still ‘deliberating’ whether to join or not – so glad that I did. Afterall, I had nothing more to lose but (here’s a but !!), a lot to gain. And also the fact I get to read and respond to your comments, AV 😉

      1. A Victor says:

        Aww, thanks! Likewise Asp Emp!

  12. Deborah Sigmon Redding says:

    Who the hell would want a nark more self obsessed?

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