Is the Narcissist Secretly Gay?

111 thoughts on “Is the Narcissist Secretly Gay?

  1. Emma says:

    Mine admitted to have sex with 14 year old. It floored me. No compassion. No boundaries. She wanted it he said so it was ok by him. Then there was all this bs about having sex problem. I explained to him that he had sexual fluidity and lack of boundaries. I always wondered why there were stains on his underwear. Always after his sales travels. And then one day I told him that me and my friend were talking about the BDSM while riding horses. He literally flipped out. Then I mentioned it every time I wanted to get a raise out of him. I still wonder why he was so upset about it.

    1. Asp Emp says:

      Emma, is he upset because he was not present at the conversation you had with your friend? As narcissists do not like to be ‘left out’. Or does he do the BDSM in ‘secret’?

    2. MP says:

      Hello Emma, that’s pretty serious. I don’t know if there’s a legal consequence for that but I personally would ask a cop what you should do with his revelation about raping a minor, a child. He will do it again to another child if he has an opportunity.

  2. MP says:

    Excellent point and definitely explains a lot. I have always wondered about stories in real life where someone married to someone who they discovered having a homosexual affair and the ex wife even felt devastated with the thought that she turned her husband to become gay because there’s something really wrong with her. Also from what I remember before the discoveries the spouses experienced alienation from the husbands so it makes total sense that the husbands were just narcissists and there was nothing wrong with the women that caused the homosexual affairs.

    The control aspect is so enlightening too when I observe manly men that are very narcissistic and womanizers and are very much offended with any association with feminine stuff and now I know it’s because of their need to control their facade that they cultivate unlike non narcissists that don’t really cultivate facades and mostly act or behave in instincts rather than keeping an appearance.

  3. Violetta says:

    Fun to revisit this one, with recent publicity about reality star Colton Underwood coming out of the closet. (Never watch these things, but I do like reading the gossip sometimes.) A number of readers wondered why he was stalking the woman he was linked with on the show after their breakup, if he was gay. My first thought was “Control, of course.” I’m going to guess that if he’s a full Narcissist, he’s not going to treat his male relationships any better, once the Golden Period is over. It isn’t about orientation at all. People who think his problem was just repression are in for a serious disappointment.

  4. Karla Anderson says:

    Your vault is enlightening.
    My ex Narc. told me on 3 different occassions when we argued that “he understands why men become homosexuals”. Can you give me any insight on why he made that comment?

    1. Alexissmith2016 says:

      Triangulating you Karla. Putting doubt in your head as to whether he would have sex with another man.

      1. Karla Anderson says:

        Thank you for commenting. Why or how would making me doubt his sexuality benefit him?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Keeps you engaged and thus being controlled and providing fuel.

          1. Karla Anderson says:

            I live in a country where homosexuality is not widely accepted.

            Could he be hinting that he is sexually fluid and secretly he does get sexual attention from men if it benefits him?

      2. A Victor says:

        I also see that as a put-down of the woman and also of women in general. My daughter had 2 or 3 boyfriends who came out as gay after her and it made her wonder what in the world she was doing wrong. It really affected her for a while.

    2. Alexissmith2016 says:


      Id put a lot of money on it that it’s the case that he is sexually fluid. In my experience when narcs hint at something they know you hate and/or find difficult to believe in some cases, there is very often truth in it. See the article below. Whilst it doesn’t answer your question directly, it will help.

      I was seeing a guy moons ago now, but during an intimate moment, he said “good boy” to me hahhahahah this is just one example but after that moment there were lots of little things he said which hinted in that direction. He said it on purpose too, it was not a mistake.

      It’s not just about the fact they’re sexually fluid, more than anything they love to mess with your head.

      1. Another Cat says:

        “In my experience when narcs hint at something they know you hate and/or find difficult to believe in some cases, there is very often truth in it.”

        Well, except, no. Stuff narcissists have told me which I found difficult to hear, have been: “You’re ugly.” “People don’t like you” “I love BDSM” “I love huge boobs” (he is now since several years living with a very thin woman).

        I agree though Alexis, that he believed those things in the moment he said them, because they were provoking. In a sense everything the narcissist claims is true, at that moment, from his perspective. He will say whatever fuels himself, imo.

        Sorry for the interruption.

        1. Alexissmith2016 says:

          Ah yes of course things like that cat are different. They do say things which are untrue if they call us ugly etc I guess that’s a different type of manipulation.

          And when I re-read karla’s comment re what her N actually said it wasn’t so much if a portentous remark actually, so perhaps her Ex N isn’t sexually fluid and just being a dick.

      2. Karla Anderson says:

        Thanks for the link, it helped.

    3. pariskelley says:

      lol, he understands why men become gay huh? i would love to hear his theory on that one.

  5. Bubbles🍾 says:

    Dear Mr Tudor,
    Basically, no ‘holes’ barred kinda people 🤣
    Excellent and most enlightening indeed
    Luv Bubbles xx 😘

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Very good

    2. JB says:

      ‘No holes barred kinda people’! Ha ha, love this, Bubbles! 😂 Your comment just brightened up my day, thank you! 😘

      1. Bubbles 🍾 says:

        Dearest JB,
        Thank you kindly lovely
        I always try to look on the “bright” side 😁
        Luv Bubbles xx 😘

        1. JB says:

          Me too, Bubbles! 😁 Xx

  6. Empath007 says:

    The question probably all of us have asked ourselves at one point. It makes so much sense though once one understands it’s all about fuel,
    Character traits and residual benefits … that sex is merely a weapon of choice to obtain what they want. So why would gender matter ? Other then for the purpose of a facade.

    1. pariskelley says:

      exactly I feel the same way. Sex is so powerful if it were used just as a weapon and not for its original purpose, just as a weapon, you would be able to control the masses if the sex control is done correctly. I don’t even look at gender anymore. especially after living in the middle of feeling like both male and female at times, but what I can say is once I went in and really took a look at myself and saw that I am two, there was no more need for genders for me, and I got a lot stronger, and a lot more understanding from it.

      1. Witch says:

        I don’t understand people feeling that they are any type of sex…
        I am a woman because I’m female, but I don’t “feel” like one and I’m not quite sure what that even means to “feel” like one?
        The brain itself is not a sex organ as far as I know

        1. Another Cat says:

          I want to agree with you Witch.

          But as an ACON I wonder whether this too is a feature only nonAcons might have. Maybe as an ACON this gender sense is eroded (by the stressful upbringing), not developed?

          I have a difficult time pinpointing what features/lack of my personality are caused by narcmom and which ones the nonAcons also possess.

          1. Witch says:

            @Another Cat

            I asked my girlfriend and she also said she doesn’t understand what feeling like a woman means … she only knows she’s one by her biology.
            I’m not sure if either of her parents are narcs or they just didn’t get along.

            Honestly I don’t think it’s a tangible thing.
            I’ve heard women say they feel like a woman when they are dressed up and feel attractive, but that seems more about feeling confident in what you look like rather than any specific “woman feeling” outside of physical biology.
            Feelings are subjective and fleeting and can be interpreted in different ways.
            I don’t even think you can accurately and consistently differentiate female and male brains because everyone’s brain is different and develops differently according to their experiences.

          2. MP says:

            For me personally I have loved things associated with femininity for as early as I could remember. I remember as young as three I played with my N mom’s makeup palette and she called me a whore for that. Now that I have a four year old daughter who loves to look at my makeup I don’t understand what kind of person would call a three year old that. There’s nothing whorish about fascination with makeup. My N mom didn’t buy pretty clothes for me but my empath aunt sewed pretty dresses for me and I remember being so happy with the pink colors and lace etc. And those things have been associated with femininity in society so in my head they make me feel feminine. My gay male cousin who was close to me when he was a teenager and me about 8-11 yrs. told me he just really feels like a woman and he is just not able to be attracted to women just like I can’t be attracted to women. He dresses up as a woman now in his adult years and he is happy that way. Maybe partly it’s because what the society suggests as feminine stuff and so we just go along with the definition. I would guess that majority of women are more into stuff associated with femininity so the society goes with the majority’s perspective of what feminine is.

          3. MP says:

            I just remembered there’s a makeup that is being marketed for men who wants to hide skin imperfections but do not want a product that might be conceived as feminine in their bags or lockers. They used Alex Rodriguez to market their makeup. I don’t know if he is one of the owners. It’s basically a blur stick that they can apply directly to their skin imperfections or use their fingers. The skin tones available don’t even look good and the packaging was designed to look manly. I thought it was kind of funny that they can’t just buy a regular concealer that actually works better because they think it is associated with femininity.

          4. Another Cat says:

            MP, Witch,

            often pondering the subject you bring up in these last two comments. I’m hetero, actually wear skirt/dress almost every day, but don’t really feel like “acting feminine”. I make huge gestures when I speak, for instance, and regarding music…don’t really listen to classic lovesongs, not interested in films like Titanic, Mamma Mia, Pretty Woman, or anything with Hugh Grant.

            Although movies just happening to contain a lovestory also,are usually fantastic.

            Well, one thing is for sure: I bet some narcissists especially, need the annual Pride Parade. I have noticed this, they are a gender of their very own. (and I mean this empathical ly, not joking)

          5. A Victor says:

            AC, I have the same difficulty. NonACONs are different and it’s hard for me to know what’s ‘normal’ or narc influenced also. I’m pretty much starting to think it all is for me and I can learn a lot from the nonACONs.

            My gender sense is extremely sensitive, from my narc parents directly, in the sense that men do this and women do that. Black and white. There is more to it also but this is the basic starting point. As a result I often realize someone is gay before others around me might. I hate it. It makes it challenging to live in the world as it is today because even noticing such a thing can be construed as judgment when, for me, it’s simply an observation. I couldn’t care less if a person is gay. So I keep such observations top myself and act surprised when someone else tells me. The result of my parents f’d up ‘ parenting’. They couldn’t give me something useful to carry through life, nope, just this. Okay, sorry to sound so bitter, it’s a struggle right now.

          6. Another Cat says:

            AV Thanks
            First of all, reading in another thread I wish you all the best with spending a day out/seeing a movie with your son. He will greatly benefit from being more with a genuine empathic mother. Sorry about not finding the correct thread.

            About these elusive features of personality, yes a mystery indeed. Even though the cadres and schools are there as an empath, there certainly are features I reckon, which have been eroded during ACON life. There was a very dominant person around all the time, taking up all the space basically.

            And that stress of having to see everything as Black or White, makes us empaths extra tired. Years after GOSO I’m calmer finally allowing myself the nuances I am hardwired to see, from genetic predisposition.

            Basically In this thread I like to point out that even many of us hetero ACONs can have this lack of feminine identity. Maybe some nonAcons too?

          7. A Victor says:

            No problem on the thread AC, glad to have found your comment! Yes, I benefit from hanging out with my kids also, I am always glad for time with them, even more now that they are adults and their time is so full.

            I like the way you said that, very accurate, “…taking up all the space basically.” That’s it exactly.

            Wow, you are so right about that too, the black and white thinking! I can literally handle about one sentence now and I have to get away from it. So tiring, so controlling, just overwhelming. Yes, I am calmer too, not 100 percent but it’s getting better.

            Yeah, my identity is pretty solidly feminine. Probably due to my dad sexualizing women. My mother is not feminine in the traditional sense, she grew up on a farm and acts like one of the farm hands. It’s disgusting. He was proper, she was like that, it was so confusing. And I rejected her very early on so sought to be more like my dad and more like what he valued. And I do enjoy very much being a woman, I would not trade it. And I like men, alpha men, that’s my problem, they are hard to find in the non-narc variety. Thank you for the comment AC, I love the way you word things.

          8. Witch says:

            There is a lot of evidence that suggests gendered things and interests being assigned to either sex is cultural and not biological.
            Henry the 8th would probably be called “gay” today with the elaborate outfits he wore that was considered socially acceptable in his time

          9. Witch says:

            @a victor

            I don’t think you can always tell
            I’ve met quite a few lesbians who have been able to get by undetected until they chose to come out.
            There are a lot of fruity women that you wouldn’t be able to suspect very easily.

          10. A Victor says:

            Yeah, probably not always. But I have been surprised by the number of times I could. I’ve also been approached by a fair number of women, oddly, and that has probably made my antennae more tuned in. I try to avoid that as I find it awkward.

            Congrats on the wedding! Just read about that today!

            And I really appreciated your comments on what the trans situation is doing to children, it was interesting reading that, I have had many of the same thoughts, wanting to punch those mothers for using their children like that. I read a few years ago that people often regret irreversible sex changes after the fact, many suicides, and more recently that it is affecting younger trans people the same way, once they become adults. Very sad. I hope it is not true.

          11. MP says:


            I’m not sure if that is the case for everything. But I agree that cultural factor is a big one. I remember thinking how weird it was for Prince George to wear lace gown when he was christened. But having a little boy I saw a lot of things developed naturally. I decorated his room with animals that are gender neutral and for some reason he just loved trains the first time he saw it. My daughter loves trains too because our house is full of train toys because of his older brother. But she doesn’t love them as much as she loves Minnie Mouse and unicorns which she also just saw somewhere and started to love on her own. I ended up looking up if there is a difference between a female and a male brain and science says yes they have some differences.

          12. MP says:

            Hello Witch,

            So from the article by WebMD, male and female brains have structural and size differences.

            “ Women have more connections going left and right across the two halves of the brain. This could give them an advantage in pulling together information from different sources and drawing conclusions. The left half of the brain handles logical thinking, and the right is associated with intuition.”

            “ Men’s brains have more connections from front to back, which may heighten their perception. They may be more attuned to what’s going on around them so they can take action. Men have stronger connections between brain areas for motor and spatial skills. That means males tend to do a better job at tasks that need hand-eye coordination and understanding where objects are in space, such as throwing a ball or hammering a nail.”

            I would personally add that the hand and eye coordination was also an advantage for many centuries for men in the roles that they performed in society for hunting for food or for battle skills.

            The article also stated that because of the plasticity of the brain, in spite of circuitry, it can still work differently or uniquely for each human based on our experiences and cultural influences. So just like what AC pointed out, she doesn’t like all of the stuff associated with being feminine because in her unique life experiences she has developed her own preferences.

            “ When your brain processes the same signals over and over, those networks will get stronger, like working out a muscle. So even if male and female brains start out similar, they may become different over time as boys and girls are treated differently with different expectations.”

            So I would say that culture and experiences are definitely a factor but there is also indeed differences between the male and female brains.

            I am just trying to think how this applies to narcissists. HG has said they are like chameleons. During the narcissists development stage, and also similar to empathic ACONS, we all didn’t really have a lot of chance to figure out who we really are as much as those who weren’t raised by narcissists. But the narcissists removed themselves from their true selves and took control of who they want to be based on what they want to achieve. The empathic ACONS still attached to their true selves but we usually struggle with having a very strong sense of self at least in some aspects of our lives. For me I was not allowed to socialize growing up but I was allowed to draw and play alone inside our home so I have a strong sense of self on who I am in terms of my hobbies and personal beliefs and ideologies but I have a poor sense of self in terms of socializing and how people might perceive me or how I actually fit in etc. My brain didn’t have opportunities to develop that much in that area. Although thankfully I have empathy so that helps a lot with my socializing too as most people who know me in real life don’t see me as an unpleasant person. So the experiences shape us but our nature still has a big effect on who we become.

          13. MP says:

            Hello AC,

            I’m sorry I feel confused about what you mean. You said you know you are hetero woman but you feel that you lack certain feminine identity. I think you were totally right about how N parenting affects our different aspects of our identity but I think it affects each individual differently and also depends on the way the N parent asserted control and dominance over the child. I do remember a lot of my personalities were controlled and/or discouraged and basically expunged from me and honestly I know I could never get those back. Whether it is a mindset or a facial expression or a habit and those things add up and affects why we start not having a very solid sense of self in many areas.m and I’m sure including feeling solid about feminine identity. For me though and also for another ACON that I know in my real life the feminine identity remained strong but the erosion of sense of self or strong identity happened in other areas.

          14. Witch says:

            I’m still going through the comments
            I’m not married yet
            The wedding is next year
            But thank you 😊

        2. pariskelley says:

          from what I’ve learned is there is no specific way that a women or man is supposed to act, take for example there was a gay guy who talked to me about why he was nervous to go out dressed like a women because he didn’t know how to “act like a women”. to me there is no such thing, just be yourself, no matter what body your in.

        3. MP says:

          For me the attraction is just not really there. I admire many women for many things but I just don’t see or feel any attraction for them other than friendship or platonic admiration or appreciation. 🤷‍♀️

        4. Bubbles says:

          Dearest Witch,
          The brain is our biggest sex organ we have ….. its the fundamental transmitter of sexual hormones, emotions and desires
          We would be lost without it
          Sexual organ ??? Absolutely !!! It’s our main frame control centre
          Luv Bubbles xx 😘

          1. Asp Emp says:

            Bubbles, you know your human biology well 😉 Exactly, the brain controls the body – even the ‘messages’ from our instincts and the brains in their ‘trousers’ also react yet the ‘message’ may not have yet ‘registered’ in the brain 😉 The mind is capable of being a sexual ‘mind-field’…..

          2. Witch says:

            Hi Bubbles

            I wasn’t referring to sexuality…
            It seems that gender and sexuality got conflated down the line in this thread.
            I was referring to the fact that you can not accurately distinguish male and female brains, therefore how do you “feel” like a man or a woman? Male brains are slightly larger on average because they tend to have bigger heads but the jury is still out on whether or not that would effect functioning. There is also lot of overlap between “cis” male and female brains. And psychologists have also argued that because experiences effects how our brains develop that this could also account for the small differences on averages.
            If my little pony is only marketed to girls then children will make the association that those toys are only for girls.
            The sex segregation of toys means that different skills may be being developed in the sexes early on.
            I’m not sure why toys are marketed differently, maybe you can make more money that way?
            and maybe it also helps to soothe parental fears around homosexuality developing in their children? I don’t really know
            When I say “sex” I am referring to male and female.
            When I say “gender” I am referring to cultural norms that are expected of either sex.

          3. WiserNow says:

            Witch, Bubbles, MP,

            This discussion about the brain and gender is very interesting. Just thought I’d add my two cents in relation to how a baby’s brain develops.

            A baby’s brain is actually fascinating. At birth, a baby’s brain is very undeveloped, however, it is highly attuned to certain things that a more developed brain no longer has the ability to be attuned to.

            For example, in the process of learning to speak, a baby is ‘pre-programmed’ biologically to ‘hear’ vowel sounds in a certain way. Studies have shown that the ‘motherese’ or ‘parentese’ way of speaking to babies (i.e. speaking slowly and in a sing-song voice stretching out the vowels) is something babies actually need to start to learn to ‘mimic’ the language of their parents. This ability to learn a language by differentiating certain often-used sounds declines as a baby gets older, so that by the age of say 5 or 6, they no longer have that ability.

            The same goes for other kinds of development. There are ‘windows’ of highly susceptible learning (even vision and hearing) during the years from birth to say, 4 or 5, where things like motor skills, emotion-control, social interactions, language and executive brain function are highly open. After a particular ‘window’ closes, the brain isn’t as susceptible to learning.

            The other thing that’s interesting is that babies ‘learn’ much more quickly and easily when they have human to human social interactions while ‘learning’. Studies have also shown that there’s a huge difference in a baby watching a person speaking to them on a screen compared to having an actual human present with them speaking to them.

            (There’s a documentary called ‘Born To Learn’ on YouTube that explains these things, in case anyone’s interested.)

            The ‘architecture’ of the brain is also fascinating. There is scientific research being done now that looks at certain enzymes that are regulated in certain ways by particular genes. So, the way a particular enzyme will be ‘regulated’ depends on the person’s genetic biology. Without getting too technical, research has shown that the way the CAMKK2 gene, for example, encodes a particular enzyme affects the formation of memories and how certain parts of the brain either grow or don’t grow.

            Going back to your ‘gender’ discussion, I think that there are certain things that are wired biologically and then there are other ‘environmental’ aspects that affect the brains of babies as they grow in their formative years and beyond. There’s still a lot that science doesn’t yet know about how particular aspects of the brain work. Overall though, the brain is a very complex organ that still has many unknown factors.

          4. Bubbles says:

            Dearest Witch,
            Good question and most philosophical indeed, I don’t believe there is just one straight answer…..definitely one for thought processing group chat

            The brain controls feelings and emotions, however it can also work alone without emotions
            Intellectually, women equal men, …….. emotionally, just ask Dr John Gray haha (or Mr Tudor haha)

            I remember as a kid we played outside with dirt n water, everything was nature based
            My brother and I played with stones, caught tadpoles down the creek n climbed trees
            My brother taught me judo, I taught him to knit
            We both did the same chores
            I think ‘feeling’ female may have started in kindy
            Dick n Jane, Happy Venture books, cat (fem) v dogs (masc), females playing cups of tea, dress ups, boys playing with trucks and building wooden blocks only to knock em over
            I was very into ‘educational toys’ for our kids, where they could all get involved and not fight
            We’ve always been constantly bombarded with subliminal messages and yes my little pony was for girls and Spider-Man was for boys …… however, I believe it’s changed
            I think Target have already moved away from gender based signs n labelling for boys n girls (I don’t shop in those areas any more, more aged care now haha)

            In the end, it’s all about marketing, money n consumerism, always has, always will be. There appears to be more n more changes in acceptance and of self, no matter what your race or gender …..about bloody time !
            Luv Bubbles xx 😘

            Ps I never once thought about girls or boys toys affecting or influencing the outcome of our kids gender, even our ‘macho’ son dressed up in my aerobic tights as a kid …… now they’re all wearing them …’s called active wear !!! Hah

          5. Bubbles says:

            Dearest Asp Emp,
            Haha …no, not really
            However, the brain is more powerful than we give it credit for
            This potentially could open up another can of worms 🐛
            Luv Bubbles xx 😘

          6. Bubbles says:

            Dearest Witch,
            I was chatting with our son, he mentioned “the brain isn’t defined by what appendage a person is born with”.
            Luv Bubbles xx 😘

          7. Violetta says:


            Not even Tim Curry as Frank N. Furter?

          8. Bubbles says:

            Dearest WiserNow,
            Very interesting information WN. I view babies as ‘little people’ , they know a lot more than we give them credit for
            They always look at me when I’m out n about … we always make eye contact and we both knowingly smile …. I’m a true magnet haha
            Babies mimicking parents ….. my poor kids haha (my particular window must’ve permanetly stuck ages ago haha)
            Thank you for the ‘Born to Learn’ link …. might just take a bo beep ! (I’m always looking at funny babies n animals) …..sooooo predictable !!!! Haha
            Luv Bubbles xx 😘

          9. WiserNow says:

            Hi Bubbles,
            Thank you and you’re welcome. I’m always looking at babies too, and whenever I see them, it gives me a joyful feeling and I can’t help smiling at them. I’m very predictable in that way too!

            Babies are born to be social, I think. When I see a baby and look at them and wave or smile or wink at them, most of the time they are very attentive and responsive. Their brains are picking up on everything and they are attuned to learn from social interactions. They are gorgeous 🙂

          10. Bubbles says:

            Dearest Witch, MP, Violetta n Njfilly,
            Our youngest son identifies as a male. When he’s a drag queen (female impersonator) he’s just a drag queen …..he doesn’t identify as a female, but he does prefer people to use female pronouns because that’s how she’s dressed! We have supported him by marching side by side in gay parades n going to his drag shows!

            LGBTQIA+’ isn’t just gay n lesbian. It’s not every letter of the alphabet like a lot of people think. Lesbian, gay, bi trans, trans, questioning, intersex, and asexual or ally. They’re all sexualities and different forms of identification. A choice by the individual that isn’t limited by the govt, but is dictated by it by not giving those people the same rights as someone who identifies as a ‘man’ or ‘woman’, they don’t get treated the same !!! It’s the fight the community is fighting. They get discriminated and abused for something that is out of the other person’s control, all because they can’t/don’t/want to learn, understand and include them.
            Parents can help by accepting their child’s choices of how they identify! There are still a lot of parents stuck in a box!
            Same goes with identifying black n white or bi racial !
            So many people think it’s just gay culture. They drink, party, wear little to no clothing and love rainbows n make up ……that’s only the surface of their community !!
            Everyone should have the same rights !

            Mr Bubbles doesn’t wear make up, (anymore haha) however, he and both our boys use skincare religiously!
            Imagine if Narcs had their own group 😂
            Luv Bubbles xx 😘

        5. MP says:

          Hello Witch,

          I saw this article about women being biologically hardwired to like pink. This is so true with my daughter, she loves blue but she has a special preference towards pink and purple. My son loves blue and he doesn’t mind pink but he chooses blue or green before pink. And it’s not something that anybody taught them because things like that are not a big deal in our house but the preferences just naturally showed up.

          I think a lot of these may have to do with the evolution of gender roles in society just like when dogs started to be domesticated, there had been an evolution with their traits that fit being domesticated.

          1. Witch says:


            My eldest sister liked trains, blocks etc
            I stereotypically liked dolls, and was happy to play will any doll, whether that be barbies, action man, trolls, as long as it’s a doll.
            My nephew likes dolls, unicorns, and his favourite colour is pink..
            There is a lot of overlap with the male and female brains.. meaning there are men with brains that are closer to the average female brain and vice versa but they still recognise their biological sex as being the sex that they are.
            So this brings me back to how do you “feel” like a woman or a man?
            It may be possible that these “feelings” are factual and I happen to be an oddity in that respect

          2. MP says:

            Hello Witch, personally I have never thought of that or examined myself like that and I just always knew and felt that I’m a woman. And I have interests that are masculine too although I was never fascinated with trains or toys my son likes, but I always liked and used to collect “balisong” or butterfly knives in my home country and I used to love doing tricks with them which was influenced and introduced to me by my tomboy friend in high school. But I always preferred my hair long and dresses and floral prints make me happy for some reason. And I love make up and skin care stuff and I own some makeup palettes just because I love looking at them even though I wear very light makeup because for some reason it brings me joy and makes me feel feminine. But I don’t know why exactly.

          3. MP says:

            Hello Witch,

            I looked it up and got this from Planned Parenthood (I’m not their fan but maybe they can answer you).

            “ Your gender identity is how you feel inside and how you express those feelings. Clothing, appearance, and behaviors can all be ways to express your gender identity.

            Most people feel that they’re either male or female. Some people feel like a masculine female, or a feminine male. Some people feel neither male nor female. These people may choose labels such as “genderqueer,” “gender variant,” or “gender fluid.” Your feelings about your gender identity begin as early as age 2 or 3.

            Some people’s assigned sex and gender identity are pretty much the same, or in line with each other. These people are called cisgender. Other people feel that their assigned sex is of the other gender from their gender identity (i.e., assigned sex is female, but gender identity is male). These people are called transgender or trans. Not all transgender people share the same exact identity.”

            So for me like I said I have always felt like a woman for as early as I could ever remember, so they said as early as 2 or 3. My cousin and I have had conversations that he feels like a woman inside for as early as his early teen years. Our family have always known he is gay since his childhood. It wasn’t a big surprise when he started dressing up as a woman in his adult years because we already knew and for us it was just a matter of time. So for the Planned Parenthood’s explanation both me and my cousin has gender identity of a woman and I am a cisgender and he is a transgender. Some people don’t have gender identity and are called gender queer, gender variant or gender fluid.

          4. Witch says:

            And I just want to add that this was the man dem of ancient Egypt and they wore makeup too


            Tbh bring it back cause it’s kinda hot

          5. MP says:

            Haha if there’s enough men that would want to look like that right now there’s no law here in the US that stops them. To each his own.

          6. MP says:

            Hello Witch, you don’t need to answer this if you don’t feel like. But you said you don’t understand people who feels like a man or feels like a woman, would you consider yourself as gender fluid? I know that you just got married to a woman so I always thought that you are a lesbian. Just out of curiosity, I hope you don’t mind me asking. I also wonder how it feels to be gender fluid.

          7. A Victor says:

            I had an affair with a guy that wore black eyeliner, it was super hot.

          8. Witch says:


            Thank you for the interesting discussion.

            I’m very wary about gender identity stuff because of how it’s being used.
            There has been increase in children being referred to gender dysphoria clinics, including an increase in females in particular being referred to these clinics.
            I’ve read that some psychologists suspect that many of these children are on the autism spectrum and the distress they are feeling might be rooted in other issues.
            However as these clinics become increasingly led by ideology, some psychologists have complained that they are not being able to do their jobs due to the risk that they may be seen as practising “conversion therapy” on a “born this way” “trans” child.
            A lot of LGB experience various levels of gender dysphoria which most grow out of if allowed to.
            Then particularly narcissistic mothers are treating “transgenderism” as the new “toddlers in tiaras” by putting their supposedly “trans kid” in newspapers, reality TV shows, so that they can get attention and make money out of having a child unicorn.
            In turn transitioning is being normalised among children, in which I believe it’s being presented in some schools so that children would be introduced to the possibly
            of “changing their sex” at vulnerable ages.
            There has been some push back, but I suspect many professionals are fearful of speaking out against this recent social contagion among children and young people.

          9. MP says:

            Hello Witch, thank you also for the interesting discussion. It forced me to do research because your questions got me curious and I learned stuff I didn’t know before like I didn’t know I’m a cisgender. I would say narcissist parents on both ends are scary. It’s sad when a narc dad beats up a trans son to force his trans son to man up because his son is an extension of him and his facade. And also I remember having discussions with you about narcy moms like Angelina Jolie and Charlize Theron that is grooming their little kids to be trans before they are even mature enough to be sure of who they really are. I have heard tragic stories of regret in adulthood of the gender reassignment they had as children. I just feel that each of us has to be accepted for whatever gender identity we may have been born with or not born with and narc parents from both ends do not do that which is affects us deeply because they are our parents. Our discussion made me think of my cousin’s situation which I haven’t really thought of that much. His dad didn’t care about him acting feminine as a child but his sister and my mom picked on him here and there which my cousin just rolled his eyes to or he just picked back on them about something else. But there was no feeling that he was not important or valued in the family and he was praised for things he did. It’s sad to read about high suicide rates in trans youth and they said that gender reassignment at a young age will prevent that but some information show that it might not be the answer. Maybe the answer is really having the feeling that they belong, valued and are accepted and not really the surgery in their childhood. Just my thoughts.

          10. Violetta says:


            ‘Then particularly narcissistic mothers are treating “transgenderism” as the new “toddlers in tiaras” by putting their supposedly “trans kid” in newspapers, reality TV shows, so that they can get attention and make money out of having a child unicorn.’

            Actually, they are sourcing some of these kids from Toddlers & Tiaras,, or at least Dance Moms. JoJo Siwa came out, there are questions about Maddie Ziegler’s relationship with Sia, Zackery Torres is transitioning, etc. Abuse is abuse regardless of gender or orientation. The fact that these kids’ were left with an abusive teacher like Abby Lee Miller instead of being moved to a program where they’d get proper training without all this publicity until they were developed as performers (barring the usual recitals or productions of Nutcracker), shows what their parents’ priorities were. They’re juggling pronouns because the adults around them have treated them like an “it “

          11. MP says:

            Maddie Ziegler’s mom is a perfect example of why children get abused and molested in Hollywood. Her mom used to say she’s sharing her children or her motherhood of her children with Abby. Definitely not a normal thing for a parent to say. One can only say that if they see their kids as an object or commodity. She also said she’s sharing motherhood with Sia whom I think is a narcissist.

          12. Witch says:


            I don’t mind the question.
            But no I don’t consider myself to be gender fluid. Although I appreciate androgyny, I go by my biological sex.
            I’m bisexual.

            I used to be very sympathetic and open minded to gender, but now I’m not sure if I want anything to do with it.
            I’m feeling quite emotional today and I saw a video of an American transwoman criticising our British court’s decision to put stricter regulations in place concerning giving children puberty blockers. The court case included the testimony of a female detransitioner who will forever be robbed of going through a female puberty as she was naturally supposed due to the leniency of these gender clinics and the transwoman mocked her experience.
            A lot of these people are willing to throw children under the buss so that they can bask in their 15 minutes of fame and for their own self centred validation that they are a real woman or a real man or a real neither.
            This is why I am over it! We are witnessing child abuse occur right in front of our eyes with these “my trans kid” TV shows and not enough people are able to speak out against it because they could lose their livelihoods if someone cries “transphobia.”

          13. MP says:

            Thank you for your answer Witch. I think these gender clinics are all about money and not really what’s best for the kids.

            Unfortunately I can’t blame people for being afraid to speak up especially if they are not part of the LGBTQ community. So much bullying and the cancel culture can destroy their lives and livelihoods. If they have children too, is it worth speaking up and running the risk of ruining their kids’ future because they got cancelled and their livelihood got destroyed?

            There’s also so much judgment going on. If you don’t parade yourself as an ally or woke some people judge you immediately as someone who is prejudice. There’s so much virtue signaling going on and I’m just honestly tired of it. I don’t like pandering to groups of people but I try to be nice to everyone. It doesn’t mean that I will change my personal preferences or values or identity to appease or please anyone.

            I admire that you speak up for the children in risk of getting procedures that have life long consequences. I think the empaths in the LGBTQ community should speak up more because they have a better chance of having people listen to them because they are part of that community.

            Haha as for men in makeup, I do follow on male skincare influencer that wears makeup and he’s very skilled at it. I have no idea what exactly is his gender identity but in all honesty I just like following him because he’s informative and he’s nice. There are male influencers that wear makeup that are too much drama on steroids and have bullied other people so I just cannot subscribe to that. I don’t mind men wearing makeup but I am not sexually attracted to them even if they are straight. I think that manly men are the most attractive but that’s just my personal preference.

          14. A Victor says:

            Yes, that horrific child abuse and not as horrific but a dangerous precedent, the losing of sports scholarships to the trans girls that join the high school teams. People have been speaking up about that, somewhat anyway, here in the US. Probably because it’s affecting these biologically born girls ability to get needed money for college. These things are often about the money, or the fame.

          15. njfilly says:

            I’m adding my opinions to this discussion.

            No – to men in makeup. Absolutely not. It’s a soft version of cross dressing (which I also don’t like-for men that is, as I do often wear pants, but I also often wear dresses and skirts). Particularly if the man wears his make-up to appear softer, prettier, or more feminine.

            I would never date a man who wears make-up. I expect the men I date to be absolutely, 100% masculine in the traits/ways that I identify and perceive to be masculine. This does not mean I object to the following: being sensitive to feelings, being caring, considerate, compassionate, and loving, and possibly other areas I just neglected to mention.

            I feel 100% like a woman and I am proud to be a woman. I am very feminine in my tastes, but also very masculine at times. In my relationships I am the femininity and I expect my boyfriend to be the masculinity.

            Now, having said all that with the intensity that I feel it, I believe that the reality is that all humans have both masculine and feminine traits and in my own relationships I know there is sometimes a shifting of the traits/roles and depending on the situation, I am accepting of that. But I prefer (and expect) my relationships with men overall to be traditional in the sense of masculinity/femininity and the roles of male and female. Otherwise, I see no reason to be in a relationship.

            I prefer the man to be the head (leader) in the relationship, just as he would be the head of the household in my marriage. I don’t want to be the man in the relationship. If I am put into that position, I will leave the relationship. This has nothing to do with confidence or competency as I have both those traits in high amounts so that I am successful in managing my own life, business, farm, home, and other endeavors.

          16. A Victor says:

            Hi NJFilly,

            Thank you for your thoughts here. I agree absolutely, this is part of my attraction to the narcissists I think, the ones I have known, other than my parents, exude masculinity, leadership etc. The affair I had with the eyeliner wearing guy was a fluke, he was in a band and it was the mid 80’s, it didn’t make him look feminine at all, it was a costume effect for his role on stage. Most people, let alone guys, could not pull it off but it went with his natural coloring etc. Now, if I’m honest, I would literally cry if my son decided to wear makeup. I know that could be construed as anti LGBTQ but it’s not that, it’s just personal from me to him, just due to dynamics there and where his dad is at etc.

          17. Witch says:

            Unfortunately trans ideology has successfully taken over the “community” and most LGBT organisations to the point that even the LGB are afraid to speak out un-anonymously.

            I’ve now seen that Ellen sorry Elliott Page is now transitioning. Every day that goes by femme/butch culture is dying more and more as an increasing amount of masculine presenting lesbians are transitioning into faux heterosexual men.
            It’s almost like it’s more “sinful” to be a butch lesbian in 2021 than 1821.
            If you question why there has been such a significant increase in females being referred to gender identity clinics, the argument that follows is “people are more accepting of transpeople today…”
            That’s it… that’s how deep and complex their reasoning really to why more and more young women are getting their breasts removed and increasing their risk of developing other illnesses with artificial hormones

          18. MP says:

            Hello Witch. My cousin has never been interested in transitioning. He cross dresses with his friends when they go out but he’s not interested to do anything beyond that. He is afraid of potential health consequences of surgeries to change his body. There was a movie in my home country about a trans male who had surgery to have female organs and ended up having a difficult life because what he had done was hard to maintain. But I don’t know if the science has improved or is better in wealthy countries. I think that the media has a responsibility to inform people of the potential consequences of such a life altering move. I have read an article when I was looking things up during our discussion of a 19 yr old who felt he ruined his life because of having a sex change surgery when he was fifteen. I believe that 60 minutes has been wildly criticized for airing the side of detransitioners. I think it is a very difficult battle to help the kids of narcissists transitioning their kids without really giving their kids a chance to make an informed and authentic decision for themselves. I hope that more people like you speak out and I will admit that I only give my opinions on things like these when I feel it’s safe with like-minded friends and acquaintances.

          19. MP says:

            Hello Witch, I was just reading articles about conflicts that happened regarding children being transitioned. The common factor I see is that there is one parent that has been very supportive of it. I’m sure you remember how you were as a child of a narcissist just like I do. I remember how I did a lot of stuff to please my mom. I was thinking if she happened to have manipulated me to want to be a boy, there could have been a chance that I may have at least partially gone that route if she started early enough before I wised up. I think it’s probably the most horrifying child abuse. I know I said how horrible the cancel culture is but I think this is a topic that is definitely important to talk about even if we’re not part of the LGBTQ community because it involves innocent kids. I hope that the stories of these kids are investigated into more and exposed to people. My apprehension was because a friend told me about someone she knew that was bullied at the local hospital where she worked because of an opinion she shared but as I read more about the experiences of those with regrets from the transition and thinking about the health issues you mentioned you are absolutely right and people should speak up about it. I bet majority are against it.

          20. MP says:

            Witch, Also sorry for my boo boo. I thought you got married. I remember congratulating you months ago but I may have remembered it incorrectly as congratulating you for you wedding when it was for an engagement. 🤦🏻‍♀️

          21. Witch says:

            crossing dressing/drag has been part of gay culture for a very long time. I don’t have a problem with it.
            I do appreciate why some people would want to transition.
            .i.e. it can be extremely difficult being an effeminate male, especially one who is also gay. There is still very little acceptance for gender non-confirming people.
            However, this used to be an ADULT decision but now it’s becoming something that children should be able to decide which is quite frankly terrifying…
            Instead of teaching children at school that they can change their sex, we should be teaching acceptance for children who present differently.
            Adults should also be fully informed of the down sides of transitioning (the health risks, the fact it’s going to cut your dating pool down by 90%, and the fact it may not necessarily relieve depression/suicidal ideation.)
            I know the dating pool thing is a sensitive issue but it’s true and people need to be prepared for potentially the higher degree of romantic rejection they will receive being trans because romantic relationships are important to a lot of people and that’s enough to make someone bitter and depressed.
            Feelings of gender dysphoria should be explored holistically from all angles.

          22. MP says:

            I wholeheartedly agree Witch.

        6. BC30 says:

          Witch, I enjoyed reading your opinions on sex and gender.

          Side note: I think it’s sexy when men wear makeup. I’m a huge fan of men in makeup, huge fan.

        7. Empath007 says:

          “The brain itself is not a sex organ”…

          I beg to differ… I think it plays the most important role.

          As for gender identity. I’ve never had any personal experience questioning my own. I’m happy in my own body – and my whole life have been wildly attracted to men.

          But the only way for sex to be explosive for me… is if the guy can get in my head. Like a narcissits, who better ? Otherwise … the mechanical act itself will just not do (for me personally).

  7. Supernova DE says:

    “Horseplay among military guys”…..?!….is that a thing????
    I think the military attracts narcs so I guess this makes sense….a bunch of guys deployed, away from most of their appliances, game for any fuel they can get?

    This puts MMRN in a whole new light for me as I think of the possibilities…but I’ll just shut that right down cause I don’t need any ET right now thank you very much! Screw who you want as long as its not me 🙂

    Thanks HG, very interesting piece as usual.

  8. Escaped says:


    My cerebral narcissist (genius) had severe erectile disfunction but was able to perform when his arms and legs were bound with chains and ropes (pulley system he designed himself)— complete submission was a contrast to his utter control.

    Why is this?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      He got a hard on for his mechanical genius.

      1. Z - zwartbolleke says:

        “He got a hard on for his mechanical genius.”

  9. Alexissmith2016 says:

    So damn interesting. Again something which is all so easy to spot once you know. But before I’d have had the odd suspicion about someone very occasionally. But now like when you narc spot you can see this all so clearly too in many narcs.

    HG, is there a school who are more likely to be into sexual sadism? Or does it span them all?

  10. Anm says:

    I actually know that the “alpha male” narcs that I have been with, have had sexual experiences with males. These stories always came out in one way or another, and I am sure I haven’t heard it all. I have absolutely nothing against sexual fluidity, but the stories I know of, from the narcs I know, are extremely narcisisstic. The gay encounters are also about deception, power plays, sadism, etc. They act out their inner issues in very odd and opportunistic ways

    1. pariskelley says:

      of course the alphas would be like that, being able to “dominate” another man, that must be the dream for guys like them.

      1. Anm says:

        I can begin to answer to your response to my statement, but then my mind will go down the rabbit hole that I don’t want to go down. I have found that a lot of “alpha male” narc men, actually have a lot of male BPD traits, which is another topic for discussion. I remember listening to a rant once about a guy complaining about Lance Armstrong, and how he is a wanna be Alpha Male, who has to be #1 in sports, but deep down Lance Armstrong is a BPD male, who is a cry baby, entitled, breaks the rules, not that masculine at all. That’s what narcissist alpha males are really like. They are too easy to upset.

  11. Anm says:

    “a dog with 6 dicks, or the town bike, or would shag a barber’s floor.”
    I want to take an English language lesson from HG. I have never even heard of these phrases, but couldn’t help but Google them to see what the hell he was talking about. Lol

  12. cadavera says:

    My most recent narc is the most homophobic person I’ve ever known. He calls the dumbest things “gay”, like why doesn’t he hang out with his brother who’s homeless, in the brother’s van? He says because it’s gay. I really wonder if this guy isn’t a closet gay since he talks about it so much and goes out of his way to make sure he’s not perceived as gay.

    1. pariskelley says:

      from my experience if someone is trying that hard to prove that he’s not gay and everything around him is….he’s actually gay and doesn’t want to accept it.

    2. njfilly says:

      He was using the word “gay” to mean “lame”, as it is sometimes used. (So I have heard).

      Anybody care to comment on this? Ha ha!

      1. NarcAngel says:


        Haha, that crossed my mind also (the use of the word in this context meaning lame), but comment? Not unless we want to wake the righteous woke.

        1. njfilly says:

          Ha ha!! True. Maybe I am a trouble maker.

          I have to admit that although I have heard the term woke I didn’t really know what it meant, so I had to research that. (I stay out of the main stream as much as possible. I prefer the lunatic fringe.)

          Although I am fully awake, I am not woke.

          1. Asp Emp says:

            Laughing…. I laughed at your initial comment too 😉

      2. A Victor says:

        Hahaha, my ex was def secretly lame, the ass. He’s probably secretly a homosexual also. 🤣

        1. njfilly says:

          Ha ha!! Funny! They are all secretly lame if not outwardly so! Possibly even HG Tudor?

          1. A Victor says:

            Hahaha, no, not HG! He’s not lame! He’s amazing!

  13. Asp Emp says:

    “with language it evolves and changes” – so do people’s mindsets (not everyone’s) – only those that allow their mind to re-process the way it thinks.

    Very interesting to read “the construct alters with regard to sexual preference in order to achieve the prime aims”.

    Laughing…. “a dog with six dicks”.

    “going up and groping people without invitation or consent chasing people down in a predatory manner” – I have seen similar ‘behaviours’ from those with Aspergers / ADHD / Autism / Learning Disabilities – especially those in younger years ie teens / early adulthood based on the fact they do not understand ‘social cues / behaviours’ and it has either not been explained to them or peers not noticing / recognising the difference in actions by those on the Autism / ADHD spectrum. The majority of the time, it can be ‘developmental delay’ (sometimes classed as ‘developmental maturity’) With those having narcissism, HG’s video explains it.

    “has no real fixed sexuality” – again, an interesting point.

    There was a woman (looking back & now recognising the characteristics of narcissism in her actions / behaviours) – at work, I observed the way she looked at me gave me impression she was gay and I thought it was rather strange as I knew she liked men. Reading this video explains it very well and I now understand her behaviours.

    I also thought about narcissists in prison who may not actually be gay but will do anything for the prime aims & “position” (within the prison) to achieve safety / security from any potential bullying practices etc.

    Brilliant video – further learning & more understanding with more insight into the behaviours of those with narcissism. Thank you, HG.

  14. mollyb5 says:

    HG …this fluidity of sexuality …is very informative. This explains a lot.

    1. HG Tudor says:


      1. mollyb5 says:

        HG. A narc does not have emotional empathy for children … or animals . Would part of a persons kink and obsessions have to do with narcism …or is that only one part ? HG would it be only a certain type of narc that would practice pedophilia ? Or is narcism always be involved ?

  15. lisk says:

    Fascinating stuff.

    I broke off a friendship with a female when I was in college because she was all about “I,” “I,” and “I.” This before I “knew” what narcissism was exactly. I remember her subtly propositioning me, testing me out, in her childhood bedroom when I went to visit her and her family. I got creeped out but dismissed it after she respected my boundaries and did not make the same effort again.

    This piece helps me put the “I”s and her proposition together to equal Narcissist.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Jolly good.

    2. Another Cat says:

      I also experienced this. This type of female teenage friend though always seems to end up with a male husband later in life.

      Not only because of general discrimination in society against gay couples.

      But the female narc, in my experience, uses LGBTQ as a steady ladder “up to the man”, up to the privileged life.

      1. lisk says:

        Another Cat
        Yes, exactly. This friend married well and has the child that she always planned to have. Seems like the husband had the seed and the right credentials—and soon she’ll get to tell her daughter stories about her wild youth (the same kind of stories she was told by her narc mother who hung out in NYC during the Beat Generation).

        As the Narc World Turns . . .

      2. Witch says:

        Some of them do as it provides them with a wider dating pool
        However, others do identify as lesbians and will only have primary sources who are women after they have come out

  16. WhoCares says:

    Oh, HG, I love your sense of humour!

    1. WhoCares says:

      Incidentally, listening to this was hugely informative and so revealing…

      1. HG Tudor says:

        Naturally and thank you.

    2. HG Tudor says:

      HG always prevails.

  17. Ciara says:

    Chillingly accurate as ever HG

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Indeed and thank you.

  18. A Victor says:

    I actually asked my ex this once and, while I don’t believe it was his preference, I do believe he was open to anything if it benefited his agenda, as the video says. Same with my first ex, he “secretly” dressed in my clothes on occasion. He’s probably a narc too. Interesting video.

Vent Your Spleen! (Please see the Rules in Formal Info)

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.