Do. Narcissists Enjoy Sex?

108 thoughts on “Do. Narcissists Enjoy Sex?

  1. Free Bird says:

    I now realize I may have been ghosted. (first time for everything). I listened to the video on ghosting and realize that rather than a discard it may be shelving. I need to tighten up my NC so he can never contact me again. I will never contact him again, whatever one calls it, it is abuse. I ecaped from him initially and I think he is seeking revenge. GOSO Trying to seize the power.

  2. Free Bird says:

    HG, how would a narcissist feel if he was denied sex by a former IPPS?/trophy wife for a moment? I stupidly saw him, we made out, he called me his wildflower and his rose (I was wowed by that)…he wanted it bad but didn’t get it. He had blue balls and was in pain for 3 days. I also let him know I did not want to remarry him. On a two week (plus) silent treatment now. Did I wound him? Piss him off by denying control? His favorite thing to say is that I am disobedient. He fake cried after. Pathetic really. Victim narc. (I know I need to GOSO, NCEA, and get across the emotional sea, and use logic.). Curious how that made him feel. Thanks for all you do.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      1. You would be better served asking yourself “Why did I allow myself to be hoovered into engaging into intimacy with a known narcissist” and “What can I do to ensure it does not happen again” rather than focussing on how the narcissist feels.
      2. Since there was some intimacy between you but penetrative sex did not occur, your refusal will have amounted to Challenge Fuel (See the # Interactions with the Narcissist in the Knowledge Vault)

      1. Violetta says:

        Would his claim that he had cobalt cojones for three days be a Pity Play?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Yes and an exaggeration. He could have had a wank.

          1. Violetta says:

            It occurred to me that an adolescent boy would know how to handle that.

        2. Asp Emp says:

          Violetta…..laughing……I have had similar said to me by the MRN than months later “it” was not working. I am glad actually because in some way, it makes me feel the better for it – born again Virgin now? Laughing…..

    2. k mac says:

      I’m sure no one has ever turned down HG.

  3. vandenboss says:

    haha..! ”we take one for team narcissist”

  4. Asp Emp says:

    I do. Instead of that, I enjoyed fresh strawberries, lemon drizzle cake and creme fraiche……. no, none of it was dribbling on my chin……

  5. Leigh says:

    OMG, I have to share what just happened. Workplace narc just came to my office and he was not so subtly touching himself as he was describing to me how he would commit suicide. He was actually getting an erection from my reaction. As I’m writing this, I’m thinking, what the fuck is wrong with this man??? Then when he was done with the conversation, he has to linger for a couple of more seconds to use the stare on me as well.

    1. BC30 says:

      🤢 ugh. So gross. What a loser.

    2. A Victor says:

      Leigh! Wow! What did you do?? That’s….just, wow!! Out of the blue he did this? Today? Wow. Are you okay?

      1. Leigh says:

        AV, Its very common for him to come to my office and start talking to me and even touch himself while he talks to me. I don’t react to it because I know he wants a reaction. It hasn’t happened in a long time though. What blew my mind this time is that he was telling me about the ways he wants to commit suicide and the empath in me, reacted. He likes to get me in person so he can see my reaction. Anyway, because I was reacting to what he was saying it must have aroused him so he proceeded to move it. I made sure not say anything about him touching himself. Then, once he was done talking, he has to linger and stare for a couple of seconds. It was this time of year, two years ago, when he disengaged. Maybe he remembers, I don’t know.

        BC30, gross is right!

        1. Bubbles says:

          Dearest Leigh,
          That’s very inappropriate offensive sexual behaviour in the workplace…….. I would’ve reported him to HR and the fact he mentioned committing suicide ……he seriously needs a mental assessment ! Workplace environments are taken very seriously these days, you just can’t do that anymore……..and get away with it
          We shouldn’t let them either !
          Luv Bubbles xx 😘

          1. Leigh says:

            Bubbles, this is where it gets very complicated. I am HR. On top of that, I had an 18 month affair with workplace narc. He disengaged with me 2 years ago and broke me. That’s what brought me here. I believe he is an MMR B. When we were together, he would often tell me he was depressed and talked about suicide. He knows that’s the only way he can still get to me. Unfortunately, I can’t call him out on what he’s doing and he knows that as well. He’s very good at maintaining his facade and making sure there’s no cracks. Unfortunately, I need to maintain my facade too because I need to keep my job.

          2. Bubbles says:

            Dearest Leigh,
            Well that’s a triple clanger and some …. you’re HR, he’s a narc, you had an affair, you still work together plus he still comes to visit you
            This is what frustrates me, aside from the above, he still gets away with narc behaviour and you’ve ended up here
            I take it things will remain status quo in the office
            The question is, are you able to handle it Leigh ? Narcs have a habit of wearing you down!
            Luv Bubbles xx 😘

        2. leelasfuelstinks says:

          After my Mr. Wanker-Cerebral-Elite False Angel experience and reading literature it makes perfectly sense to me. Narc provokes, Narc gets fuel, Narc feels so good about himself that he gets a boner and wants to make love to himself. I experienced exactly the same. It´s not an iota about us, it´s not because we are pretty, sexy, amazing and attractive, no way, the object of desire are themselves! They want to have sex with themselves, means: jerk-off. There´s a good reason why it´s called narcissistic personality disorder 😉

        3. A Victor says:

          Leigh, I agree with Bubbles and Eternity. That is workplace harassment and then fact that you had a relationship previously should not make any difference since you don’t any longer and he continues. His behavior is abuse, in my opinion.

        4. Asp Emp says:

          Leigh, what he is doing is not acceptable in the workplace. He is using a form of intimidation / manipulation / control – yes, without knowing he is a narcissist. Yet he should be ‘aware’ of workplace policies.

          I’d report him. With evidence. Taking a sneaky photo (avoids plausible deniability on his part). .

          Me, being me, I’d also say to him “Have you got crabs?” (indicating with my head and looking at where his hand is on his dick)…….

    3. leelasfuelstinks says:

      Makes sense! What gives them an erection? FUEL! Any fuel. You can sit there and cry a river because they hurt you, they may get an erection because it´s FUEL! Remember, they are autoerotic. Whenever they feel good about THEMSELVES, they get sexually aroused.

      This absolutely makes sense. What the fuck is wrong with them? They have narcissistic personality disorder! 😉

      1. Leigh says:

        Yes they do!

      2. A Victor says:

        Oh good grief, I had missed that autoerotic part. Ugh.

    4. Eternity says:

      Take him to Human Resources that is sexual harassment and not exceptable in the workplace.

      1. Leigh says:

        Eternity, here’s a fun fact, I’m HR. Its not sexual harassment. I had an 18 month affair with him. We are both equally culpable. My affair with workplace narc is what brought me here. The formal intimate relationship has been over for two years. When he disengaged, it destroyed me. Every once in awhile he pops back up but for the most part, he leaves me alone. I can’t call him out on his behavior without the affair being brought to light and I want to leave it in the past. Thank you for your concern though. He’s already disappeared again, so I’m good.

        1. Eternity says:

          Leigh, oh dear I didn’t realize your situation. I r

        2. Eternity says:

          Leigh, sorry I didn’t realize your situation and I am very sorry for what you went through. I feel for you deeply. Just look on the bright of things. I wish you all the best. Hang in there

          1. Leigh says:

            Thank you for your understanding Eternity.

          2. Eternity says:

            Of course anytime! We need to be understanding with one another especially what we have been through

    5. Alexissmith2016 says:

      bloody hell Leigh that’s absolutely nuts. I can’t believe he would do that so blatantly like that! What a weirdo. What kind of N do you think he is? Surely that’s off the charts weird even for an N.

    6. Leigh says:

      Thank you everyone for your concern. I’m the one who initiated the affair so technically I sexually harassed him. I was wrong and these are my consequences. I cant lose my job and i want to keep it in the past. Most of the time he doesn’t bother me at all. I get a hoover every once in awhile. I don’t know what triggered it this time. He’s already disappeared again. They all pop in and pop right back out. More than anything, I find his behavior comical.

      Alexis, I believe he’s MMR B. He’s very good at maintaining his facade.

      1. A Victor says:

        Leigh, I am glad you can have a sense of humor about the situation. Also glad to hear he’s gone away again.

        Totally understand the desire to keep it under wraps.

      2. Bubbles says:

        Dearest Leigh,
        As long as you can handle it lovely, but my question is … is it not ‘ he ‘ who brought you here or are there more pressing factors? Sorry, I may be getting a bit muddled !
        Luv Bubbles xx 😘

        1. Leigh says:

          Bubbles, yes workplace narc is what brought me here. I was in another silent treatment and I Googled “silent treatment”. While reading about silent treatments, I found Mr. Tudor’s article “House of Discards.” After being on the site for 15 months, I started to realize that I was meant to be here. I realized both my parents, my husband and my best friend were toxic and abusive. I haven’t done narc detectors on them but I know in my gut they are narcissists. It all became very clear and the rose colored glasses came off. At first I thought I was the narcissist. I thought, how could it be everyone else, it must be me. I decided to do the empath and trait detectors just to be sure it wasn’t me. Mr. Tudor confirmed I am an Empath, triple hybrid, carrier, savior, geyser. Go me, I guess. Workplace narc really is the least of my problems. My father is passed, my mom is in a nursing home & my best friend is in a new relationship, so I’m good there. The pressing factor is my husband and the need to escape him. I have two adult children who live with me and I need to make sure they are protected as well. When I leave, they will have to come with me or find their own place. I don’t think he will physically hurt them but I can’t say that for sure. If I leave them behind, then I’m no better than the narcissist. I believe my husband is a victim narcissist. We’ve been together for 35 years. I meet all of the prime aims. When I leave, it will do serious damage and I don’t know how he will react.

          1. Bubbles says:

            Dearest Leigh,
            Many thanks for your very personal story lovely one ….. it is a very intricate and delicate situation that needs to be handled with a lot of care and strategy
            Luckily you have two adult children to be your support , much needed help and shoulders to lean on
            It sounds Mr Tudor would be the best to advise you !
            We must treat each case individually and with extreme caution, as we must be on guard and expect the unexpected!
            I’m so sorry you are in such a predicament Leigh, however, there is always a way out !
            Never give up hope Leigh and always think positive !
            Luv Bubbles xx 😘

          2. Leigh says:

            Thank you Bubbles! Yes, I always have hope and I always see the silver lining! ❤❤❤

          3. Bubbles says:

            Dearest Leigh,
            It’s a pleasure always and good girl!
            Luv Bubbles xx 😘

      3. Eternity says:

        Don’t worry honestly , everyone makes mistakes we just have to learn from them that’s all. You were attracted to him and it happened. Hopefully he will leave and find another job. Try to maintain no contact as much as you can I know it is hard but you will do it.
        Now it terms of MMR B I know all about them in detail.

        1. Leigh says:

          He’s part of the boys club so he’s not going anywhere. Its ok. Its been over for two years now and while he does hoover every once in awhile, for the most part he doesn’t bother me.

          1. Eternity says:

            Keep and stay strong . Good for you. Try and ignore him.

      4. Duchessbea says:

        So sorry that happened to you Leigh. I understand about you wanting to keep your job. Don’t ever give him a reaction. Try your best to never be on your own with him. If he comes into your office, have a few colleagues numbers handy to telephone and have one of them come to your office for something. Always have someone else around or leave your office every time he comes in, on some pretence of having to go somewhere, and go to someone else’s office. Doesn’t matter if he follows you. He won’t be to quick to do that again walking down the corridor in full view of other people. What a prick. You deserve so much better Leigh.

        1. Leigh says:

          Thank you Duchess! I’m just seeing your comment now, so I apologize. For the most part he doesn’t bother me. He just hoover at specific times. I’m expecting another in about a week because it’s his wife’s birthday. He doesn’t usually come in the office. He just hovers at the door.

      5. Alexissmith2016 says:

        , I only just saw this. Interesting he’s a type B. Thanks so much for sharing. What a wanker! Xx

      6. Empath007 says:

        Hi Leigh,

        I’m not sure you need to entirely blame yourself because you initiated the affair OR believe you deserve any sort of “punishment” for the fact you had the affair.

        I often think similar and believe if I do something “bad” that means bad things must happen to me as a result to even the score… but it’s never benefited me to believe I need to be punished.

        Consent once does not equal consent twice. Because in the past you had a sexual relationship does not mean you consent to one now and it does not give him the right to act the way he did in your office. Regardless of the past nature of your relationship … he is in the wrong for continuing such crude behaviour in the work place.

        If you feel it’s best to leave it alone I completely understand that. We have very similar stories in the fact we met our narc at work and years later still work at the same place. I too am feeling the affects of that as I am now under new management… and my boss is one my narcs best friends… it’s as though their drama never ends and I’m starting to seriously consider quitting my job so that I have the final “word” in the matter : which is total silence from my disappearance.

        1. Leigh says:

          Hi Empath007, I just saw this. WordPress has been weird. I never got the notification. I apologize.

          I’ve been wondering about you lately. I hope you’re well. I remember you were thinking about reaching out to the ex narc. How’s that going?

          Yes, I know workplace narc shouldn’t have done what he did. He really is the least of my problems. He doesn’t come around that often. Most of the time he can’t be bothered with me and disappears for months.
          Which I’m perfectly ok with. When he does hoover, it makes me chuckle because its always so dramatic. His wife’s birthday is in a week so there will be another hoover coming.

        2. Leigh says:

          I read your comment and yet I completely missed the part about your narc’s best friend being your boss now.

          Does that mean you’ve seen your ex narc? How did that go if you did? Has your new boss mentioned him at all? I need details, if you don’t mind.

          Do you have an opportunity to leave your current position? I know its tough out there right now. Maybe if you have a chance to go somewhere else, you should. I don’t think its a good idea to get entangled again.

  6. lickemtomorrow says:

    “Rocket fuel” … that’s the way my narc and I described it 😛 … how incredibly appropriate.

    I had no idea before coming here.

    But to describe it as “relief” in terms of getting an appliance under control, well that’s an interesting perspective to gain. So their enjoyment factor comes from a release of any anxiety, and then an increasing sense of power over the appliance as they submit to the narcissist’s control.

    It’s quite eye opening, and especially dangerous for the Co-dependent who is likely to want to join the narcissist in the sexual dance.

    Sometimes I hate the cut and dried delivery. Especially when it comes to such an intimate topic from an empathic perspective. At the same time, I know it serves a purpose. And I like the way it is broken down into three subsets: Intimate; Mechanical; Narcissistic, which all make sense as they are being described. We both get to enjoy two parts of the three part subsets. What we don’t get to enjoy is being on the same page when it comes to sex, apart from the mechanical aspect. In terms of two narcs, there obviously must be a dominant narc and a submissive narc. At least that’s my guess.

    And another guess (because I know) the sex can still be satisfying if you overlook the toxic dynamic of the relationship. Having said that, on both counts (intimacy for the empath, need for control for the narcissist) it’s not possible to paper over those cracks permanently. The narcissist will deny sex, have affairs, etc. The empath will sense the disconnect and be dissatisfied.

    The good fortune for the empath is that they still have the possibility of joining in a truly mutually satisfying relationship. From my perspective that’s a day worth waiting for <3

    1. leelasfuelstinks says:

      I have no doubt that those narcissists who have the right somatic traits (many somatics, somatic leaning elites) can be great in bed. I think it strongly depends on where the narcissist gets his fuel from. If one of the fuel sources is sex, of course they are good, they may be even the best you ever had. But not every narcissist uses sex to a large extent to get their fuel. Some prefer status, money, possessions, looks, knowledge, charity, whatever and if the sex has not a high priority when it comes to gaining fuel, the narcissist won´t take big efforts to be good at sex and may even struggle.

      And we don´t want to forget, that the love bombing before the sex has an enormous effect on how we Empaths perceive the sex. When you got already a dopamine, oxytocine and serotonine overkill from the love bombing you automatically perceive the sex as better as it really is. Then it´s enough when the narcissist is halfway decent between the sheets, the hormones and neurotransmitters are already floating your body which also causes an extremely strong sexual desire. It´s already enough for the narc to do a little bit of this and a little bit of that and you explode in multiple orgasms.

      The sexual desire which is caused by the love bombing is extremely strong and I personally perceived it as abnormally strong. You feel such a deep connection to the person who doesn´t actually exist, you´re crazy in love (with yourself, actually). So, you´re deeply madly in love with an illusion, you feel a deep connection to this imaginary person who appears to be your soul mate.

      It´s all in your head!

      No offense, just an objective analysis.

      1. Nina says:

        leelasfuelstinks, Yes, to everything you said.

        Especially the last part of what you wrote. We are so heady from the love bombing that it doesn’t take much to make us insane with desire for them, and feel an unusual connection, which adds to the intimacy, closeness. It’s unreal.

        1. leelasfuelstinks says:

          Unreal! Exactly! An illusion in our heads.

      2. lickemtomorrow says:

        It is not hard to be responsive to someone who you believe is being responsive to you.

        I think that’s the long, tall and short of it for me, Leela.

        It appears to be a mutual coming together (so to speak) and the narcissist has primed you for that to happen. As you say, you’re so conned by ET and hormones you’re not going to realize it is in a sense a “wham, bam and thank you ma’am” until it’s all over and done. And maybe not right away, or even until after you are married … whenever the devaluation begins.

        I clung on with the last narc and literally asked him “where has my lover gone?”


        I knew nothing of the games narcissists play as my ex-husband, for the time we were together, seemed to have no issues with sex, though neither was he very adventurous. The first time I discussed erotica was with the last narc. We were definitely more on fire, but that made his refusal all the more devastating. I’m sure I fueled him in a million different ways. And as you say, sex is just one way of fueling. But the way HG describes it, you’d think they’d want sex all the time (and probably some of them do!) because it provides a motherlode of fuel. Although that may be more for the Somatic. A cerebral might get more fuel from an intellectual conversation. A Victim from some TLC. I don’t think I could be with a narcissist who didn’t enjoy sex, but then I shouldn’t be thinking about being with a narcissist at all!

        I love the image from this article, so I’m going to try to keep that in mind. It just highlights the unfeeling mechanical aspect of sex with the narcissist. On the other hand, “Team America” had a puppet sex scene that looked pretty raunchy! LOL.

        1. leelasfuelstinks says:

          Yes, what an asshole! But H.G say in the video that the Cerebrals will struggle. Even some Somatics can have a hard time if their fuel comes mainly from power, money, status, looks and possessions. Not all Somatics are hypersexual, but many are. H.G. explained that in a Youtube video, I forgot which one. I think the “Dark Cupid” video or “Any hole will do”, not sure.

          1. lickemtomorrow says:

            Yes, HG did say some narcs will struggle and some prefer to finish themselves off because the aspect of intimacy can be so off putting. During the time with my last narc I became aware in a more general sense of how narcs dislike touch or close physical contact, and also how germ conscious they appeared to be. These will now be red flags for me going forward. Although with Covid the whole world has now become a narc central in that sense! How am I going to tell? Better rely on some other red flag options in the interim.

            I will keep in mind the fact Somatics also get a hard on for status, power, money, possessions, looks, etc., which can literally take the place of sex and, of course, is much less intimate. In some ways that symbolism of those things seem obvious when it comes to narcs, but as a replacement for sex is something I might not have considered before.

            The idea of “any hole will do” (I remember it) is really disconcerting. Just goes to show how the narcissist views it as a purely mechanical action and in that sense being cheated on has less impact, if I want to put some kind of a silver lining to the whole sordid situation of being involved with a lying, cheating narcissist!

            On that note, I better get off my soapbox on sex … what I thought was meaningful in the moment was pure hogwash when it comes to the narcissist. I deserve so much better. We all do <3

          2. A Victor says:

            LET, “Just goes to show how the narcissist views it as a purely mechanical action and in that sense being cheated on has less impact…”. This has been my thought the last day or two, it does make the having been cheated on aspect easier. It also makes the idea of sex (or anything else) with a narcissist less appealing, which, as you may have gathered, since it’s really the only kind I’ve had, it was about the mechanics. Haha, now I’m going to figure out the intimacy piece!

          3. Alexissmith2016 says:

            Interesting leela, yes the narc I referred to is very image conscious and power hungry. He is a total germ freak. Terrified of anything which may harm him???

            Lickem I wouldn’t use someone being germ conscious as a red flag. Hardly any of the narcs ive either been friends with or intimate with Have been germ conscious. Some have and some have been exceptionally clean and tidy without being germ conscious. But many haven’t.

          4. leelasfuelstinks says:

            My former co-worker was also germ-conscious. Totally paranoid. She was pretty much the same. Extremely facade and image conscious, bought clothes from expensive labels but all second hand, just to show the world that she´s so much better, she can afford it. And god forbid you made a dirty joke 😉 She lashed out and immediately left the room. Utterly disgusted. Everybody laughing, she in disgust, standing up and leaving the room. Or totally lashing out on those who made the joke and those who laughed, berating us, how primitive, dirty and childish we are. 😀 Sex was a buzzword for her. Made her gag and lash out 😀 😀 😀

          5. lickemtomorrow says:

            Alexis, I’m just adding it as a potential red flag along with all the rest 🙂

            I was amongst a cluster of narcs when I was with the last narc and I noticed (before I knew the link with narcissism and between them all) that they all shared the issue of cleanliness in common. Not that there’s anything wrong with that! But none of them liked shaking hands, being in close proximity to others, freaked out about situations where they had no choice about close proximity (e.g. airplanes) and agreed on the need to sanitize remotes in hotel rooms 😛 Maybe I would agree on that last one, but I don’t think I’d bring it up in a conversation. Anyway, it’s like they all belonged to this little clean clique, were paranoid about germs and thought other people were basically ‘icky’. My mother was also a clean freak. I’m only now tying that in with her narcissism. And, of course, not all clean freaks are narcissists, and not all narcissists are clean freaks. I just think it’s an interesting element which has been highlighted for me, and like I said I will count it as a potential red flag now if it aligns with other red flags I know when it comes to narcissists.

          6. JB says:

            LET, I’m a clean freak as well as a control freak! (hanging head in shame! 😂) The whole cleanliness/germ thing really resonates with me, because that’s how I am. So not a massive red flag for me (although may point to the person having other underlying issues, I guess).

            Interesting point about the not being able to finish the job! I once knew a bloke (who I now believe may be a narcissist), and apart from once, he could never finish what he had started (so to speak!) Stunned to read about this here, just another piece of the jigsaw slotting into place for me..! 😮 xx

          7. lickemtomorrow says:

            I know you’re only joking, JB, but no need to hang your head in shame 😛

            I’m counting the issue as a red flag because of how apparent it became to me when I was with the nex. There’s also factoring in touch and close proximity, which other people here might also identify with. It’s the combination, along with other narcissistic behaviours, that will set alarm bells ringing for me. Of course, some narcissists will overcome their distaste of the things I mentioned initially to prove to the empath they are genuine and enjoy touching, etc. That is how they obtain their fuel. Very different to someone who generally is aware of these things and admits them openly. The narcissist is a chameleon and he/she will chop and change to suit their purposes.

            I’m also aware HG has a focus on cleanliness as a narcissist – he has noted this on a couple of different occasions, in relation to Dr.O and also the Shield Maiden. He keeps himself clean and is conscious of germs. It is not a bridge too far to imagine these are potential red flags when it comes to the narcissist. I’m taking whatever hints I can get for future proofing against them. And one of the common denominators in the narc cluster I mentioned was the issue of cleanliness.

            As to the other issue of not being able to finish that only happened to me once, with the ex-husband. When we were on our honeymoon! He was willing to keep trying, but I was not. Whether he finished himself off elsewhere after that I’ll never know. But the frustration was mounting for both of us. It is a very interesting point, as I’d never thought about narcs finding that more satisfying due to their inability to embrace intimacy. The other thing to be factored in is the rise of the internet and internet pornography. A narcissist would find less and less reason to engage physically with their partner when their needs can be satisfied with a sock and a laptop!

          8. A Victor says:

            No JB, be a clean freak with pride! 🙂 I am, I hate germs and I don’t care what anyone thinks.

          9. JB says:

            LET, yes I guess in isolation it isn’t necessarily an indicator of narcissism, but together with other things it could well be a different story altogether!

            It’s interesting what you said about narcissists overcoming their distaste of certain things in order to ensnare you. The guy I mentioned never attempted to hide the fact that he couldn’t finish the fact, he didn’t even seem bothered by it! He certainly had issues, although it remains to be seen as to whether it was in fact attributable to narcissism..

        2. A Victor says:

          LET, please don’t take this wrong, but “I don’t think I could be with a narcissist who didn’t enjoy sex, but then I shouldn’t be thinking about being with a narcissist at all!” really made me giggle. As I was reading it, I was wondering what you were thinking!? Glad for the second half!!

          1. lickemtomorrow says:

            🙂 Glad I could give you a giggle, AV, and I had a little giggle myself wondering what I was thinking! Nothing good, I can assure you 😉 x

      3. BC30 says:

        Wow. All this ^^^^^^^ Leela, excellent take.

      4. vandenboss says:

        Okaaay..*googles love bombing

      5. Empath007 says:

        No offence taken… that is a very good analysis of what happens. Our natural hormones play an extreme role in our reactions. Like any other addiction… it alters reality.

    2. Fiddleress says:

      Hi LET, how are you keeping?
      Re using sex as a “relief” from anxiety, the last narc actually had the nerve to tell me he wanted to have sex with me as a way of relieving his anxiety before a weekend with his daughter that he was expecting to be stressful because it hadn’t gone well the previous time he’d seen her!
      Didn’t happen 😉

      1. leelasfuelstinks says:

        Hey, Fiddleress, long time no seen! Hope you´re doing fine! 🙂 As you see, my ET decreased, I´m using logic now, playing smartass here! 😀 😉

        1. Fiddleress says:

          Hi Leela, I’m doing great, thanks! Though I’ve been busy losing friends to death over the past 6 months (and ‘family’: my narc genitors, that’s them gone now – now who is being horrible, AV, if you’re reading?!), and being reunited with old friends all at the same time. Life, in a nutshell, and it is fine.
          Bad ET around my parents’ death but only for a short while, and in spite of Lockdown Season 3 here, I am feeling just great! I love the spring. And just you wait, come summer I’ll be on top of the world by, hahaha!
          Glad to know you are doing well, Leela, well done!

          1. A Victor says:

            You’re not horrible Fiddleress, you’re realistic and also, being honest. I hope you have your best spring and summer ever!

          2. Fiddleress says:

            Ah, thank you, AV! I intend to make it a 100% narcfree spring and summer, and autumn and winter, and all those seasons for the rest of my life! ANd I wish the same to you.

          3. A Victor says:

            Thank you! Me too!

      2. lickemtomorrow says:

        I’m well, Fiddleress 🙂 Thank you for asking! I hope you are the same <3

        Wow, you're narc-ex was no holds barred in letting you know how he intended to 'use' you for his own purposes … he did have a lot of nerve, which we now know was arrogance, of course. What a wanker! And very indicative of how narcs see us and use us as appliances. Which is why I took to using that reference in my comment here. I'm trying to include it in my vocabulary when it comes to narcs so I don't trip over the thought I might actually mean anything to them. Just accepting my place in narcdom as I try to come to terms with their aberrant thinking. Of course, that is their world and we are learning to resist. I'm glad you were able to resist the narc who had you ensnared on that occasion and I hope for the daughter's sake she resists him as well x

        1. Fiddleress says:

          I had a hard time really understanding that we are viewed as appliances. Now the only narcdom I will ever enter and stick around is narcsite! I have totally had it with narcs in real life.
          Yes, that narc was quite something! Before I escaped, his daughter was planning on going to live in a different country. That was one big fuel line wrenched from him, if she did.
          Glad to know you are well, LET xx

        2. Fiddleress says:

          I had a hard time really understanding that we are viewed as appliances. Now the only narcdom I will ever enter and stick around in is narcsite! I have totally had it with narcs in real life.
          Yes, that narc was quite something! Before I escaped, his daughter was planning on going to live in a different country. That was one big fuel line wrenched from him, if she did.
          Glad to know you are well, LET xx

          1. lickemtomorrow says:

            Fiddleress, as an empath the idea of viewing others as appliances is frankly abhorrent. Having been forced to come to terms with the reality of narcissism, and its level of detachment, I still find the idea abhorrent but accept it is in my best interests to understand that I am nothing more than that to the narcissist. It frees me in so many ways, one of those being not to take things personally – as the narcissist has a care for nobody. It is all about them. While their actions can be hurtful in the moment, and for my own protection I must avoid them whenever possible, they lose their ability to wound more permanently when you realize the emptiness inside the narcissist. And I must return the favour by viewing them as empty vessels seeking fuel with nothing else to offer. At least one of us can be satisfied in this life and it won’t be the narcissist, whose satisfaction is only ever temporary. And that makes two of us who’ve had it with narcs in real life <3 xox

        3. BC30 says:

          “when you realize the emptiness inside the narcissist.” LET what I sometimes get caught up in is the fact that HG says it’s all gravy for them. They are not really empty. The Creature (low fuel) is like frequent anxiety. It’s not just a matter of them not knowing what they don’t know, but that being a narcissist isn’t bad at all. He’s the only one who could know their perspective since he is capable of introspection.

          1. lickemtomorrow says:

            BC30, I think I understand the point you are making which relates to an unaware narcissist’s POV. They won’t think they’re empty or feel empty because they are unaware and are just extracting what’s necessary as that is what they are designed to do. When it comes to anxiety, I’m sure my ex-narc’s recurring dream related to anxiety about the void or abyss, and I see how low levels of fuel might bring that about. He may have sensed the emptiness awaiting him, or the threatening presence of the Creature. HG can provide us with their perspective as he is an aware narcissist, though the ability to introspect should also allow for the ability to change. This is a sticking point for me at times as I try to understand how one can be so aware and yet unable/unwilling to change. It’s an empath issue.

            I know you and I have met on a thread before which focused on the “emptiness” or the void existing inside the narcissist. I can’t remember which one now, but I think we were commiserating on the idea from the narc’s perspective. HG will say they have no soul. I believe everyone has a soul. Theirs is just lost.

            Anyway, I see myself as an appliance, and ultimately a gas/petrol pump on the highway of narcissism. Accordingly, in the past if the narcissist stopped by for some refueling he merely inserted my nozzle and proceeded to pump. His tank was empty and I was supplying him with the fuel he needed to keep his motor running. So, in that sense, the narc is an empty vessel or fuel tank, and I’m the pump providing him with fuel. Now the grade of that fuel may vary. Which is how it was very odd that my ex-narc and I talked about various grades of fuel in terms of intimacy. And top grade fuel, or fuel related to sex, was “rocket fuel” for us.

          2. BC30 says:

            HG knows he is a lion, but he shouldn’t be expected to stop eating gazelles. I tend to analogize narcs with cats of all kinds. 😆 But in all seriousness, the void/Creature feels like anxiety and unease. I imagine it is like the sense of dread that déjà vu causes me, which scares me more than anxiety. Interesting that your nex had bad dreams.

          3. lickemtomorrow says:

            Interesting analogy, BC30, and I’m into themes so it works for me 🙂

            Next question would be – does a lion know he is a lion? That would work for the unaware narcissists who don’t know what they are, they just do what they do.

            I guess an aware lion does what he does with a greater sense of purpose.

            If we continue to draw on the analogy, then we know a lion can’t change what he is, much like the saying goes “a leopard can’t change his spots”. I’m sure that one has been used in relation to narcissists before! Much as we want them to change, it is impossible.

            The element of awareness trips me up, but your comparison is a good one for getting a handle on the unchanging nature of narcissism, whether the narcissist is aware or not.

            It seems the fear of the void/dread of the Creature must exist in all narcissists. That is what drives their need for fuel and the subsequent actions they take. They sense it, but unlike HG don’t know what is causing their dread. My nex (much better than narc-ex) had a recurring dream that he was clinging on to a bridge about to fall into raging waters below. We talked about it, as it fascinated me – as did his other dreams – and you could sense the loss of control he experienced in the dream and the fear of not being able to save himself. I always guessed it related to his past, and some element of danger or loss of control, but at that stage I didn’t know about his narcissism or the LOCE he experienced growing up. I thought it must be awful to have this recurring dream and never be able to get to the bottom of it. There had to be an explanation, whether it lay in the past or some current fear of losing control. Good chance I created some of his anxiety now that I think about it, but he said he’d been having the same dream as long as he could remember.

            I’d be interested to hear more about your sense of deja vu, BC30. It’s another fascinating concept and one that can also fill you with dread at times.

          4. BC30 says:

            I’ve thought about it a lot and cats are the perfect furry little narcissists. No doubt my cat thinks he owns me and my job is to serve him, demands attention any way he sees fit, even if he causes destruction, he does what he pleases and I can either get with it or get lost, he could live without me and that he is the shining epitome of a cat. Most importantly tho, he is an obligate carnivore. I think of HG like that. He is an obligate carnivore. We could ask him to be vegan and he’d wither and die. Maybe, he could be omnivore, but why should he when he’s designed for meat? We can impose our own morals and beliefs onto narcissists, cats, and lions, but they are what they are. They are not us. Enough about that.

            As for deja vu, it honestly scares me. I don’t have OCD or anything like that, so that is not it. I believe that “things can be no other way because that is what happened”, so when I feel a sense of deja vu it is ominous because it is as if things could have been or could be different than the reality I am living– I can’t go down that path. Am I making any sense? LOL Probably not. When I feel it I usually do something to disperse the energy and sensation, like snap my fingers or adjust the volume on the radio.

          5. Leigh says:

            BC30, #FACTS! I call my cats narcissists, ALL THE TIME!

          6. lickemtomorrow says:

            That makes sense, on both counts.

            I can be in a moment and feel like I have been there before, even though that is not possible. It’s very weird and voyeuristic in a way. You’re in the moment but it’s not the first time you’ve been in that moment. I normally write it off as a glitch on the time-space continuum … which is way beyond my comprehension!

          7. leelasfuelstinks says:

            If you ask me (nobody does, but I give my 2 cents anyway 😉 ) narcissist personality disorder is a hyper-compensatory self-defense overkill.

          8. BC30 says:

            It is. It does not manifest without the abuse/LOCE.

  7. leelasfuelstinks says:

    In fact, you guys have just sex with yourselves. All the time. No matter whether you use a body or your own hand. You make love, yes, to yourselves! 😉

    1. A Victor says:

      “…you guys…”? Leela, who is “you guys”? Laughing…

      1. leelasfuelstinks says:

        NARCS! 😀 H.G. and all the narcs 😀

        1. A Victor says:

          Hahaha, that’s what I expected but I thought it was very bold of you to say it right to HG!!! Bolder than I would be!!

          1. leelasfuelstinks says:

            Why? It´s the truth and H.G. knows it, he´s very self-aware. No news for him. 🙂 He can be a wonderful mentor anyway 😉

          2. A Victor says:

            You are correct of course Leela, nothing HG doesn’t already know. And yes, still a wonderful mentor. I do appreciate your boldness, I need to learn to be bold sometimes too, it is a project for me at the moment.

  8. leelasfuelstinks says:

    Lucky me! 😀 😉 All of my narcs struggled (somatic), one was really not capable of (mainly cerebral elite).

    #horriblesex #erectiledysfuncion #donotfinish #wankerforlife #hurrayforcerebrals

    1. Leigh says:



    2. Eternity says:

      Hilarious Leela! I can’t stop laughing Jesus help me.

    3. BC30 says:


  9. A Victor says:

    SATN is excellent, very eye opening to how the narcissist views us and their complete lack of empathy for us, using even this most intimate of acts with zero regard for us in the process. Really brings it home. Same for this video.

    1. Asp Emp says:

      AV, after I read SATN book – I felt and thought all sorts of things yet it made me understand why I was made to feel / think ‘worthless’ to the ones I was involved with in my past. The book is still very valid to aid understanding and it was very well written by HG (I left a really good review on Amazon).

      1. HG Tudor says:

        Thank you for doing so.

        1. Asp Emp says:

          Ah, HG, thank you 🙂

      2. A Victor says:

        No, we, you, are never worthless. But, I can understand feeling that way when in the clutches of a narcissist, I did at times too. It was a book that caused a lot of feelings and thoughts for me also, many of which were not pleasant. It’s difficult to hear that one who we’ve poured our lives into, in my case for 24 years, never felt anything positive for us. But, it really brought it home, as I said above, left no doubt where I stood with my ex all of that time. I have left many reviews on Amazon also, I wish more people would, I wish these would be the first to pop up when narcissist is searched.

        1. Asp Emp says:

          AV, it was the ‘rejection’ actions, like pushing away and paying more attention to the other ‘sources / appliances / fridges’ that made me feel like that and 5 years of no ‘intimacy’ – well that is hell of a long time to have that kind of mind-frame when it was not me in my perspective….

          “I have left many reviews on Amazon also” – are you referring to HG’s books or about narcissists in bed ?? (laughing….. sorry to ‘twist’ your words – I know you’d leave positive reviews about HG’s books, about the other subject, well, that’s for another time 😉 ….. laughing).

          I agree about you saying that more people should…… totally.

          1. A Victor says:

            Hm, Asp Emp, public reviews on narcissists in bed…that is an interesting thought, only, it is not possible to do a -star rating, haha!

            You are funny!!!

            As to your first paragraph, yes, they just generally are not what we should want, nor what we deserve. I actually feel like my addiction is lessening. Not certain if that’s possible but it is what I am sensing lately. It is nice.

          2. Asp Emp says:

            AV, ‘negative star ratings’ on narcissists in bed….. we can do that on this blog (laughing)…….

            Glad to know that your addiction is lessening – yes, it is possible – because I managed it, the Lesser was ‘forgotten’ about long before I met the MRN, it was the ‘lessening’ with that one too but not to a level that was needed at the time. Because of the work narcissists, others around me at the time that made the ‘addiction’ more difficult to shake off. Yes, I’ll rant about the fkers from time to time – that’s ok too.

            It becomes good when the learning & understanding about yourself increases, as well as the situations that you were / are in. These sort of things should be taught at schools – life skills & relationships with others.

          3. A Victor says:

            Asp Emp, is it the addiction that lessens or the ET? With other forms of addiction, even once the person has ended the practice of it, the addiction remains. With this one, it “feels” like we could learn enough to end it but I wonder if that’s not more the effects of lowered ET and learning how to get away before we’re ensnared, like the alcoholic who decided not to frequent bars anymore. My ET would likely skyrocket again if I allowed a narcissist to get too close, romantically, it does seem different concerning other ones, like you know who (upstairs:)). But, then there’s cross pollution to consider, keeping the ET a bit elevated even at it’s lowest, with her there.

          4. Asp Emp says:

            AV, the ‘addiction’ for narcissists remains yet it depends how you manage your ET in relation to an entanglement with a narcissist (friend / work / intimate). Ensnarement happens especially if you are not aware of narcissism (or cannot recognise it in a narcissist). I hope you will have learned enough about narcissism to not get ensnared by one in a romance relationship – you have learned it is a very difficult ‘journey’ to take, especially when they are unaware narcissists (fkg hell!). Hammer House of Horror doesn’t even cut it!

            Laughing….. “like you know who….” – no, I don’t actually know her. I was trying to help you de-personalise her by saying ‘upstairs issue’…….

            I know it is very difficult for you because of what you are learning, dealing with all sorts of stuff AND with that thing upstairs – not an easy time. So, in truth, it may take you longer to reduce ET until a later stage of your learning. If you can take a break, take one (or pack her in a box, one way around the world with unknown destination, no return address – stop it Asp Emp! miaow miaow).

          5. A Victor says:

            Asp Emp, never fear, I will remain alone forever before I’d be ensnared again. I will use every tool in my arsenal, including NDC’s if need be, to avoid it.

            I know you don’t know her, the issue that has now been reduced to a thing, hahaha, thank you for helping me with the depersonalization process! I have struggled with that!

            Off to check on shipping rates, ttyl!

          6. Asp Emp says:

            AV, yes – well, ‘depersonalising’ is just like being viewed as appliances…….. I did my own version over an old camera I have (from Her) – so I suppose it is possible for anyone to ‘depersonalise’ people from someone to a thing. Bermuda Triangle may be a good destinaton 😉

          7. A Victor says:

            Haha…the Bermuda Triangle! Laughing!!!

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