Interview : Pink Pill Channel



I was interviewed on 16th April by Chris of the Pink Pill channel, to listen click there link below

Access interview here

282 thoughts on “Interview : Pink Pill Channel

  1. NarcAngel says:

    Haha, I see what you did there (lock onto hair).

    1. Truthseeker6157 says:


      You know what the sad part is there?

      Didn’t realise I’d done it!

  2. TheVimtoSlut says:

    OMG! This thread on Contagion has got soooo long! I tried to comment but I couldn’t reply ‘in train’ because I couldn’t find the start and I gave up!

    I have lots to say about being from the cadre of Contagion because I am one and at significant levels.

    I have approached this matter ‘arse backwards’ because I was formally trained before I actually understood how rare it is.

    I speak to people all the time about this. All from the pagan community but we call it something different. Matters not, still the same thing.

    I want to focus on what colour means to an Empath. This is just my interpretation. Other interpretations may vary.

    Every, single human is aligned to a certain frequency or wavelength. Es, Ns and norms alike.

    This frequency correlates to a colour on the visible band of the EM spectrum. Interestingly, your personal colour may not actually be your favourite colour. Mine is not my favourite but it does make sense.

    Broadly speaking we have;

    Red – Earth issue communicator
    Orange – Sexuality communicator
    Yellow – Human communicator
    Green – Love communicator
    Blue – Intellectual communicator
    Violet – Psychic communicator
    Crystal/Clear – Universe communicator

    There is no indigo as it simply does not exist on the EM spectrum. Indigo is purple/blue plus black. Black or white cannot appear in the spectrum. Likewise pink for the same reason. Therfore a flag would be people who say they are either of these two colours.

    Once you find your colour, it pretty much begins to scream out at you. One might say, it scintillates in a way other colours simply do not.

    Known Empaths for example would be Greta Thurnburg (Red), Oprah and Tony Benn (Blue), Fergie (Orange). I’ve personally have never encountered a crystal. Most Es are love devotees so they vibrate with green.

    I honestly believe its that simple.

    I’ve been working with colour for nearly two years and I firmly believe it is the gateway to knowing oneself.

    As to Contagion, is it REALLY empathy though? Much in the same way cog E is called empathy but the majority of Ns hold that so…

    Really intrigued as to what orhers’ think.

    1. Truthseeker6157 says:

      Hey Vimto,

      You didn’t come up in my notifications, sorry for the late reply.

      Colour is very interesting. I’m assuming this is similar to the reading of auras, I might be wrong. I wish I could do it, sadly I don’t see people as colours. The only colour phrase I have used and on the rarest of occasions was to describe someone as ‘ a white light’ that was the only way I could think of to describe the feeling I got from the person. I didn’t see them surrounded by white light, I know what I mean when I refer to it but just can’t describe what I mean if that makes sense? If I saw another white light I would recognise them.

      I would love to see people as colours. I visualise strongly across the board, so you would think I might see colours. Sadly, no.

      As to your question about what Contagion actually is, again I know what it is to me, but I don’t know what the measurement of Contagion entails. If a person feels and retains the emotions of another and those emotions are not being generated by the receiver themselves then in some ways it isn’t empathy. Empathy is more, using our abilities to understand and place ourselves in the position of another. To see a situation, to see the world as they do. This is why narcissism is so fascinating I think. We can’t see the world the way the narcissist does, the empathy always gets in the way.

      Contagion is more about absorption I think. Maybe? Perhaps?! In this sense a full Contagion empath likely could absorb the limited feelings transmitted by the narcissist. She wouldn’t want to though, as most are negative and even power is not an attractive draw for the empath, at least not power for power’s sake. You raise a really interesting question Vimto, one I can’t answer with any certainty. Contagion is only my second school but the way I interpret it, the way I rely on it, I feel it is the school I relate to most. There will be far stronger Contagions on the empath than me. You are obviously one!

      1. Truthseeker6157 says:

        Sorry, *far stronger Contagion empaths on the blog.*

    2. Asp Emp says:

      TVS, that was very interesting indeed to read. Purple is my favourite colour, I do like other colours. I would not disagree abut the ‘psychic’ communicator. Interesting. I did around 3 empath online tests last year before I signed up to KTN. It was also by doing these tests that I came across the higher sensitivity that empaths can experience, especially in relation to the 5 human senses – similar to those who have Aspergers.

      Thank you for sharing this.

    3. Leigh says:

      Hi Vitmo, I didn’t get the notification for this comment either. I also apologize for the late reply. The thread was insane so its good you started a new one, lol.

      You pose an interesting question. Is Contagion really empathy? First, I want to say I’m only 10% contagion so my interpretation can be totally different then someone who has more Contagion. For me, when I feel the emotion of someone else, I instantly empathize with what they are going through. For instance, when someone is laughing really hard and I start to laugh with them, I can feel their joy, happiness, silliness or whatever emotion they are feeling. So I think Contagion is absolutely empathy. Empathy is the ability to put ourselves in someone else’s shoes. When you have Contagion in your makeup, you are automatically put into someone’s shoes. There’s no thinking about it. It just happens. I don’t experience it that much but when I do, it just happens. If someone is sad, I’m sad. If someone is scared, I’m scared. Its not forced, its just there.

      1. HG Tudor says:

        Correct observation.

        1. Leigh says:

          Yay me!

          1. BC30 says:

            Yes, yes, yes! “When you have Contagion in your makeup, you are automatically put into someone’s shoes. There’s no thinking about it. It just happens.” That is a perfect description. You nailed it.

          2. Truthseeker6157 says:


            Haha! Yay you! Xx

          3. Leigh says:

            I feel like I got a gold star ⭐ from the teacher!

      2. Chihuahuamum says:

        Hi Leigh…how you described contagion is exactly how i experience it. I don’t go looking for it. It also doesn’t always affect me. Moreso traumatic situations or sadness i find i absorb and can’t shake thinking about the particular situation sometimes for days or weeks. It can really affect my mood and state of mind. I think it is empathy, but it’s also absorbtion of emotional energies. Much like someine who gets psychic glimpses. They don’t ask for it in most cases it just happens. I never understood why certain situations i would get lost in emotionally until i read about the Contagion and it describes it perfectly!

        1. Leigh says:

          Hi Chihuahuamum, Truthseeker, BC30 and myself have been discussing the Contagion at length on this thread. Its down a little further. Its interesting because we all agreed about how we experience it but not all of us carried it the same way. Maybe it depends on the amount of Contagion in our makeup? Once I’m away from the situation, I don’t feel the emotions anymore. I don’t carry it with me. I guess that’s because I’m only 10% Contagion.

          Thank you for sharing how you experience it. May I ask how much Contagion is in your makeup? Feel free to tell me to mind my business if you don’t want to share.

          1. Chihuahuamum says:

            Hi Leigh…I’m not sure my percentage of Contagion. I’m going by articles here I relate to with regards to Contagion. I had no clue why I was this way until i read about it and it struck a chord with me that this was it! Certain stories in the news Ill hear about or people i hear about their situations will really affect me to the point of obsessing in thought about how theyre feeling and what theyre going through. It’s like a cloud over me of emotion relating to that situation. It does eventually ease off, but depending on what it is can last days or weeks. It’s actually annoying and a burden i find. Not to say im not empathetic, but it feels so exaggerated the emotions and many times I don’t even know them personally.

          2. Leigh says:

            From what you describe, I would guess your percentage is high. Have you thought about doing the Empath Detector? Once you get the results it really helps to put things in focus.

            I don’t usually feel the emotions of strangers. I guess because my percentage is low, it needs to be someone I’m connected to. I can only remember one time in a crowded elevator where I felt a very strong emotion from a stranger. Once I got off the elevator though, I didn’t feel the emotion anymore. Its interesting, in that instance it was annoying and a burden. When its someone I love, it doesn’t feel like a burden.

            I’m sure TS & BC30 have more to add. They have a higher percentage of Contagion then I do.

          3. Chihuahuamum says:

            Hi Leigh…I may get the empath detector down, but have mixed feelings on it and not because I don’t think it’s accurate. One reason is i don’t want to categorize myself and the other is I may not like the result. I’ve struggled with self worth and have come so far in rebuilding my confidence.
            I never say never though and may at some point get it done 🙂

          4. Leigh says:

            I think this may help with your self worth. It will give a foundation to understand yourself. Once I saw the results, everything started to make sense. Everything.

            I know there are some empaths on her who don’t think its a good idea to share their results. I want to share in order to help you understand why I think the Empath detector is so helpful. I’m part Carrier, Savior & Geyser. The carrier in me was born to carry my mother who is a victim narcissist. The savior was born to protect my brothers from my father who is also a narcissist and used physical abuse. The geyser was born to help me release.

            I was hesitant at first too. Now I believe its the best thing I’ve done. It was the empath detector that helped me understand myself.

          5. Chihuahuamum says:

            Hi Leigh…Thank you for sharing! That makes a lot of sense. I don’t doubt the accuracy and i can see how it could be helpful. I’ll probably get it done at some point in time. There’s a lot i’m not proud of and a lot of shame. I’m learning to work on these areas. It has made me a more forgiving and less judgmental person as a result.

          6. A Victor says:

            Leigh, I agree with this, the EDC has been fundamental to my growth and learning, also the TDC.

            So, on a few, 5-10 times, in my life, I have actually had the extremely odd sensation in the presence of another, of actually being in their shoes, thinking their thoughts, feeling their feelings, only for a few seconds. It has only happened in deep conversations with people that I cared about. It never happened with any narc. It was so bizarre that I have never spoken of it, people can think you’re a little titched. Anyway, the Contagion conversation is why I bring it up. It left me shaken the first couple of times after which I just thought, well, that happened again. No lasting effects except that I noted it, that this instance was exceptionally heavy emotionally. I have zero Contagion, I had wondered if it was empathy both before and after arriving here.

            I hope you all don’t think I’m titched now. Giggling.

          7. Leigh says:

            I had to look up titched. I had never heard that word. It comes up as small child or small amount so I’m not sure what you meant. If you meant weird or bizarre because you can feel things that others may not, it’s ok because we all are a little bit. Lol!

            I read The Three Strands of Empathy again last night. Mr. Tudor says in that article that all empaths have contagion empathy. I had forgotten that. I know LET talked about an experience she had and she had no Contagion in her makeup either.

          8. BC30 says:

            Nothing much to add that wasn’t discusses except to say our EDC composition seems to have a large effect upon the Contagion aspect, more so than other Schools.

          9. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Hey Chihuahuamum,

            I don’t seem to suffer too much of a downside, that might again be down to the fact I’m only part Contagion. I don’t like feeling sad on behalf of someone else in terms of hanging on to it, I don’t like being taken by surprise like with the lady in the shop and I don’t like the feeling of ‘noise’ I get from crowded places. Overall though I see it as an advantage. I know how you are feeling because often I can feel it, at least where strong emotions are concerned. I can feel drained sometimes but again not always. I agree it is just something that happens rather than forcing it. I do ‘reach’ though when I meet someone new. Reaching past the words to find what’s behind, but that’s semi automatic and I do do it with everyone I meet. It’s a tough school to describe because there are no real measures. It all happens internally. No outward signs as such. Full Contagion would be fascinating but likely far harder to live with.

  3. lickemtomorrow says:

    Haha to chocolate tonsils, NA. Hmmm, I can see how you came to that conclusion with the smooth and creamy sound of HGs voice …

    I agree this thread was thought provoking and I enjoyed taking part in the discussion.

  4. NarcAngel says:


    “a riddle wrapped up in a mystery inside an enigma”

    Now, you know that’s the Cadbury secret haha, but entirely fitting in it’s description of HG. Especially given his family’s place in chocolate/confection royalty and the fact that I refer to him as chocolate tonsils.

    Seriously though, I have enjoyed reading all of the musings on this thread about HG, and of the various definitions of power. Thought provoking.

  5. CandaceMarie says:

    Another fantastic interview HG thank you!

  6. Witch says:

    I have a friend who is in a similar position as the woman with the 9 year affair with the narc.
    I’ve tried to show her HG’s work and she doesn’t listen. She believes the narc will change and eventually they can be together. He’s not in a formal relationship but he cheated on her with his ex.
    I’m not sure what to say to her anymore.
    It’s got to the point where I don’t bring him up and I hope that she doesn’t either because I’m just going to have to repeat myself.
    I’ve never even met the guy in person and plan to never meet him.
    If they get into a formal relationship again I’m worried it might effect our friendship because I don’t want meet him and I’m not backing down. I’m putting myself first.
    victims of narcs often don’t see how they are putting others in danger by trying to bring this narc into their loved ones lives.

  7. vandenboss says:

    A voice mail message? Sounds interesting,can we expect them in the knowledge vault anytime soon? Something like,” Hello i’m HG Tudor,do not dial this number again! If you were of any interest to my client he/she would have called you first.”

    1. A Victor says:

      Wow, that is a great idea!!

    2. Truthseeker6157 says:


      I love that!

  8. NarcAngel says:

    Off the top of my head, when I think of HG experiencing power, I picture him feeling electrified and and invincible to achieve a successful outcome for himself with little or no thought to consequence for others (save keeping the facade intact). When I think of empaths feeling powerful, I think of them as having the feeling of harnessing all that is good in themselves in order to be able to share it with others for a successful outcome for all.

    1. lickemtomorrow says:

      I really like your take on this one, NA 🙂 It’s simple and to the point, and I have to agree with how you imagine HG feels – electrified and invincible. I used the word infallible, but invincible is much better. And I like the idea of us as empaths ‘harnessing’ all that is good in ourselves making us able to share that with others. The difference is how we utilize that feeling of power, as you say HG is achieving the outcomes for himself, while we achieve the outcome for others. In this instance, both can be seen to be adding to the greater good.

    2. A Victor says:

      This is a great definition. Even if sometimes my all, who I’m sharing it with, can be just myself also, for a successful outcome, but never by hurting anyone, or disregarding consequences. Thank you NA, this is helpful.

  9. TheVimtoSlut says:

    Interesting reading all the comments.

    Interview from Hgs’ end was polished as always. The problem was with the interviewer really.

    Frankly, I found the first section, the intro really, as irritating. I guess I wasn’t really warming to her then!

    I also noted a tendency to not really be able to think on her feet. It was quite startling in a few places actually. A good interviewer should have a general list of questions in addition to getting the interviewee to expand on the central thurst of the narrative. In this case fuel, schools, cadre etc

    Where this fell down was when the interviewer asked Hg an open ended question which may then have potentially led to more insightful and educational comments from him. All we got from her was, ‘uh oh’. A few times.

    Now I don’t really know what was behind that except she could chat quite happily at times which tends to suggest she wasn’t nervous.

    The lady did almost pull it back with the funeral story but was it appropriate considering she was the interviewer? Someone has suggested that it wasn’t appropriate. At that time I wasn’t sure considering the nature of the subject but on reflection, you do not catch top flight interviewers ever revealling anything of themselves apart from an odd, throwaway comment.

    I guess radio and Internet lends itself more to ‘cult of personality’, i just think the balance wasn’t quite there.

    The voice changer bit was good though!

    1. Witch says:

      I agree that there could have been more time to expand, especially on how black Americans may experience narcissism if the interview was structured a bit more formally with less casual chit chat.

      I also think that having learnt about narcissism she is should be more critical of her own agenda (that of encouraging black women to date interracially) which really isn’t the source of the issue and is promoting more confusion. For one, there are white male narcissists. Dating white men doesn’t guarantee you’ll be treated any better.
      Interracial relationships aren’t necessarily narc free. What people really need is to learn how to spot a narc early, not necessarily change their dating preferences. So in that way she is still being conned.

      1. Witch says:

        Having watched more of her videos
        I have changed my view and I appreciate her point of view.
        However mine slightly differs in that I’m more interested in empaths being matched with other empaths and if there is a shortage of empaths then it’s more viable to be open to dating outside of your ethnic group

      2. Another Cat says:

        Good point
        Intercontinental relationships and relationships where the parties have very different walks of life, and couples with huge age difference, are often ones where a Narc has taken advantage over the fact that the Nonnarc didn’t quite know that culture, was new to it.

        (But of course there are several of these couples where both parties are empathic)

  10. C says:

    I really appreciate the effort you put into this interview… or not even an interview, it was a discussion. Very engaging. I listen to TPP sometimes and it’s a community of women who REALLY need to learn more about narcissism, so your voice is very needed. Thanks.

  11. JB says:

    I really enjoyed this too, HG. It does make me wonder though, when you say about unaware narcissists who think they genuinely feel certain things but in fact are not, how do we ever know if what any of us feel is real?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Genuine, not real.

      1. JB says:

        What’s the difference, HG?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          What’s the difference with regard to what? (I do not see the previous comment in the moderation pane so you have to be specific)

          1. JB says:

            I said “It does make me wonder though, when you say about unaware narcissists who think they genuinely feel certain things but in fact are not, how do we ever know if what any of us feel is real?”, to which you replied, “Genuine, not real.” I wanted to know what the difference was ?

          2. HG Tudor says:

            Two handbags. They are both real because you are not imagining them. One is counterfeit therefore the other is genuine. Real and genuine are different.

          3. A Victor says:

            Well, I am glad HG spoke to that, I think I will need to cement that concept down even further, it is confusing, for me, taking it from inanimate objects to people, feelings and behaviors.

          4. JB says:

            Ah ok, I understand. So, to do any of us ever actually know that what we feel is genuine?

            Narcissists (most) believe that what they feel is genuine, as do non narcissists. So who is right? I say I love someone and it means something specific to me, in terms of how that should be shown (both by myself and the person I love). A non aware narcissist may genuinely think they love someone, yet the way in which they act appears to contradict this, to non narcissists’ minds, anyway! So we say ‘narcissists are incapable of love’ etc, but equally a non aware narcissist disengaging may well believe that they are doing so because their partner doesn’t love them the way they want. They both believe that they are in love, but both people think that the other can’t really be in love, because they aren’t being treated the way they feel they should be treated. How can we actually say ‘No, that isn’t love, this is’, etc, etc? Who decides?

          5. A Victor says:

            JB, I have a feeling we might hear perspective, perspective, perspective here…

          6. Leigh says:

            JB, I’m going to use my own experience to explain why I know they aren’t capable of love. My husband and I have been together for over 35 years (married for 25 years). Last summer, he threw something at my head. (This was the catalyst that made me realize he is a narcissist.) I had said something about wishing I had furthered my education and that wounded him. He decided to throw something at my head to abate his fury. This man will tell you he loves me. He will tell you that I’m the great love of his life. Yet, he throws something at my head. I can’t do that to someone I don’t like, let alone someone I love. We don’t need to hurt other people in order to make ourselves feel better. They do. I agree with TS, they feel powerful and in control, not happiness.

            Have you listened to Mr. Tudor’s video, Cognitive Dissonance and Emotional Thinking? It might help. I think your emotional thinking may be blurring the lines for you.

          7. Truthseeker6157 says:


            That’s a really good question. I agree with you. Who decides?

            I think the overarching concept is that happiness is a matter of perspective. Our perspective falls in line with the majority perspective. Therefore our perspective is ‘right’ or ‘normal’. We might not entirely agree on how our happiness originates, but we agree roughly on how it feels, at least within the range of language that we have at our disposal to express it.

            Happiness to the narc is linked to power and control. I think lines become blurry when both groups describe positive fuel versus happiness or, happiness versus power. We are very much in agreement though that we as empaths do not experience happiness through controlling, manipulating or devaluing another person. Narcissists do. Unaware narcissists that are well fuelled ( positive OR negative fuel) would describe that feeling as happiness or similar. The fact is, it can’t be. Not from the majority perspective.

            Therefore by default, narcissists don’t feel happy. They feel powerful through being fuelled. Their ‘happy’ does not fit with the majority perspective. The world operates from our perspective and not theirs. This does not make either group ‘right’ in my view. It just highlights differences in perspective.

          8. JB says:

            AV, TS, Leigh,

            Yes it does seem it is all a matter of perspective, and I guess majority perspective is what determines our definitions of concepts such as love.

            Leigh, I haven’t seen that video, but it sounds interesting, I will take a look!

          9. Leigh says:

            Hi JB, this is one of those situations when I only see in black and white. I don’t think its a matter of perspective. I agree we may feel the emotions differently. I just can’t get passed this one thing… if they are happy, why do they need to hurt people? My black and white thinking tells me, if you need to hurt me, then you don’t love me and you aren’t happy. Its that clear and simple. There’s no shades of gray.

            I think so many of us want to sugar coat what they do, make excuses for their bad behavior. I did it for years.

          10. A Victor says:

            Leigh, I love this comment, this really simplifies it. You are absolutely right, thank you.

          11. JB says:

            Leigh, spot on. I need to adopt more of this black and white approach. Constantly accepting crappy behaviour, in a blinkered attempt to be understanding of difference, just gets you nowhere most of the time x

        2. A Victor says:

          JB, I always think of genuine as being related to feelings and real being related to facts. We and the narcissist can have very genuine feelings, based on nothing logical. But to have real facts come into play, sometimes proves the genuine to be based on something not real and therefore, fake or false. But it can feel very genuine at the same time. I believe my ex had genuine feelings of “love” for me but they were shown to be fake by his real actions toward me. If this is incorrect, I hope HG will explain it as I confuse these also and have had to give this thought on more than one occasion.

          1. JB says:

            AV, I’m still thinking now! My head’s screwed at the moment! 😂 Probably due to having next to no sleep over the past few months!

          2. A Victor says:

            Think away! I understand, I am tired recently also, on the verge of a breakthrough, I think…
            Good luck with your thoughts and try to get some rest. 🙂

          3. JB says:

            AV, I hope you are able to get some rest as well. Thoughts a bit all over the place at the moment. One of my best friends passed away recently and it’s really thrown me. Made me wonder what it’s all about x

          4. A Victor says:

            JB, I am so sorry to hear about your friend. I wish there was a way to take a person’s pain away at these times. Words seem so meaningless yet it’s all we have. I am hurting for you and sending a hug. ❤

          5. Leigh says:

            JB, I’m so sorry to hear about your loss. I’m sending you a virtual hug. I hope you find the answers you need.

          6. JB says:

            AV, thank you xx

          7. JB says:

            Leigh, thank you xx

        3. MP says:

          JB, For me I know the genuine from the fake based on the actions. Feelings often can get confusing but the actions do not lie. That is why it is helpful that we study the patterns of behaviors.

          Just like Leigh’s example, would a normal adult person throw an object towards someone’s head? I have CPTSD and have experienced range and angry outburst but I never had a violent behavior like that. The moment an urge shows up there is an automatic brake that stops me and it is involuntary. My N mom told me that she has never been in love with anyone but she feels grateful to my dad because of the financial support and he kept his promise to her. But she seemed to believe that she loved me even though she never told me that although she told me in roundabout ways such as I need to always trust and obey her because no one else will love me like she does. Now that I have my own kids there were times that I became emotional over thoughts flashing in my head of things she did to me and me not being capable of doing those things to my kids. My actions although I am far from being perfect shows that the love I feel is genuine and not self serving. I think the saying “the truth is in the pudding” might be applicable although I’m not that sure because English is my second language.

          1. Leigh says:

            Hi MP, the saying is actually “the proof is in the pudding”. It means you have to test it to see if it works as it says it does. So, I agree, that saying is perfect. The narc doesn’t operate the way they say they do and the proof is in the pudding.

          2. MP says:

            Thank you Leigh, I had a feeling I was off. Truth proof they rhyme. 🤪☺️ So true about narcissists, that’s how I always look at it now.

          3. JB says:

            MP, I agree with you. Actions speak louder than words. And I agree with all of you as to which behaviours are acceptable. I was just being somewhat philosophical and wondering, who decides in the first place what constitutes genuine, acceptable, normal etc? How did society come to consider certain behaviours genuine, acceptable etc. and others not? It was mentioned earlier about majority perspective – we know that (e.g) throwing sth. at someone is unacceptable as the majority view tells us this. But who decided in the first place? Etc, etc..

          4. MP says:

            Hello JB, This is how I look at it now, the only relevant perspective for me is my perspective because I’m the one who will have to live with it. Labels really mean nothing but how it affects me means everything. Even if we call both as love, the feelings from the narcissist as Love-N and from the empath as Love-E, the only important decision for me is which love give me a better quality of life over all. Does Love-N work for me where I experience being controlled, roller coaster of emotions, whatever benefits I might get from the narcissist like money or connections or security, but I have no freedom to be an individual and will love my life not as myself but as an appliance. Or does Love-E work for me where there are no intensely high and low emotions but more like consistent where some people could feel as boring and some could feel as secure or peaceful, dependability, ability to be the individual I believe God made me to be etc. Narcissists are only capable of loving us (if we can call it love) in a way that serves their purpose. I think it’s up to each of us to decide if that is something that is acceptable to us regardless of what the majority thinks. Just my thoughts and I’m honestly not sure if I was even able to touch on your question. But I hope it was somehow helpful. 🦋

          5. Leigh says:

            Oooh! This gave me goosebumps! The only perspective that matters is ours because we are the ones that have to live with it! #truth

          6. A Victor says:

            I hope it’s okay for me to jump in here being you were talking with JB. Your comment brings up again the cognitive dissonance i had with my ex, actions speak louder than words, yet I listened to the words and ignored the actions. And I remember even thinking consciously about this as it was happening yet I could not allow myself to look at it differently. This is why I may never trust myself fully in this area but may need to check things out with others that I do trust.

            I to have had the experience of realizing when raising my children that there was no way I could cross certain lines. And not even close to the lines my mother crossed.
            Knowing this has made me very happy, very happy to be an empath.

          7. MP says:

            Thank you AV, I think it’s wonderful to know our own weaknesses and have a plan to address it. It is a great plan to double check the bias or dissonance you may have by confiding to a trusted friend. I remember Abraham Lincoln knew that his weakness was giving people too many second chances so he had a hard time firing people. So he made a plan to fire the person no matter how he personally feels about it. I think that ET cannot be completely eliminated but making decisions ahead of time of actions to override it can be very helpful.

          8. JB says:

            Sorry MP, I only just saw your comment! Yes it was helpful, thank you. I think you are right about considering what we as individuals find acceptable. My original question was asking who decided what constitutes the accepted-as-being-normal majority perspective? Maybe it doesn’t matter – if what works for one person is against the majority perspective but still works for them, then does it matter? I strongly believe my dad is a narcissist, yet I bet if you asked my mum (who has been married to him for almost 50 years) if she is happy, she would still say yes. Because despite everything, he gives her something that she needs. I don’t know, my head is still muddled with all the different thoughts, to be honest, but your comment did really help me because it brought it home to me – the only thing that matters is whether I (the individual) am happy with the treatment given – and that I don’t consider often enough x

        4. MP says:

          My condolences to you JB. I just saw that your best friend passed away.

          1. JB says:

            Thank you, MP. It’s going to take a while to come to terms with, I think xx

    2. A Victor says:

      JB, your question was at the heart of a conversation I had with my son last night. He absolutely could not accept that narcissists don’t feel/experience positive emotions. And how do we know that HG’s fuel “washing over” him is different from our rush of happiness? I’m not disputing it, I just have to know how to explain it better. I’ve been looking at happiness hormones today, for an answer and have found they really need to study the narcissistic biochemical makeup more, there seems not tp be a lot of info out there about it.

      1. JB says:

        AV, I completely agree with you!

        1. Violetta says:

          One rocker (Keith Richards, I think) said that heroin is like having spent all your life in a cold room and walking into a warm room. So Narcissists themselves wouldn’t necessarily know they were missing out on anything. It’s like me finding out that not everyone hates stereograph viewers or “Magic Eye” because why would I want to see two of everything? before it turned out my eyes don’t focus together enough to give me a 3-D image. How would you know it isn’t normal if it’s all you know?

          Speaking of the thrill of opioids, the few times I’ve had them for medical procedures, they relieved pain and anxiety, but I wasn’t particularly eager to repeat the experience. Tried cocaine a few times years ago, hated it. Liked drinking and weed as a teen, but I don’t miss the second, and I can do without the first when I’m on some kind of medication that might have an interaction. It’s not like Yorkshire Tea, which has occasionally eased thoughts of suicide.

          It’s well-established that people respond to different things and develop different addictions, so the biochemical and neurological aspects of Narcissism absolutely demand study.

          1. A Victor says:

            Violetta, “How would you know it isn’t normal if it’s all you know?” – this is the crux of what my son was saying, exactly this. And, whatever label anyone puts on it means whatever they understand it to mean. I believe HG when he says narcissists experience what he says they do, but I’ve lived up close and personal to several all my life, my son hasn’t so I think it’s harder for him to accept it. I hope more research is being done, it is such a large group of people and they affect so many more. But I suppose not many would go for any testing.

          2. TheVimtoSlut says:


            Extremely interesting and dare I say it, perceptive comments about ‘magic eye’ pictures.

            You see, I could never see them. I remember when they were all the rage, buying one and staring, and staring and…staring. just couldn’t see it.

            Then I guess I was told or read ‘the trick’. Place the picture on a flat surface, (in this case my windowsill), put a sheet of glass on top. Then move your head starting at parallel to the picture, head on side then slowly moving it up to 90 degrees. I found you don’t get that far before you see it.

            Once I removed the glass I could still see it.

            Its funny. I come from a ‘nest of narcs’. They didn’t need the glass trick but I did.

            Makes you think.

          3. Truthseeker6157 says:


            I don’t mean to dumb down the conversation, but, ha ha! Fully with you on any type of drug. Drugs and me don’t get along usually. I got my COVID jab the other week. Sick as a dog for over a week. That really annoyed me. I’m rarely sick but a jab I likely didn’t need and will be ineffective by the end of the year lost me a week. Weed, first time I got completely lost in a corridor (which obviously is straight) couldn’t find my room, I was two doors away but kept turning round and going the wrong way down the numbers. Second time I got stuck on the couch. Couldn’t get off it. I was watching someone make cheese on toast and thought, “ If he wanted to kill me now, I couldn’t move to do anything about it.” Weed only works for me when I mix with alcohol, which you aren’t supposed to do. Works for me. I have a merry old time then! I hallucinate off steroids too. They gave me those for a cough once. Bad idea, I watched a wash stand dance. I dread to think what I’d be like on cocaine!
            Interesting what you said about the vision. There’s something I can’t see either, to do with depth I think. I was told I couldn’t be a fighter pilot, which was disappointing.

            Yorkshire Tea is the elixir of the gods.

      2. Asp Emp says:

        AV, RE: your words “they really need to study the narcissistic biochemical makeup more, there seems not to be a lot of info out there about it” – your words in relation to ’emotions’ – may I suggest that you ask your son to type in “conditions associated with lack of empathy” into internet search – this can give various examples and explanations. I mentioned ‘alexithymia’ previously on this blog.

        There are many reasons why people’s ‘biochemical make-ups’ vary – genetic, environmental (even cultures vary in different countries, where people do things differently) – it’s also DNA related. Another example can be ie a car accident can lead to different ‘biochemical make-up’ (shock, trauma, brain damage, etc – sometimes linked to the adrenal glands and can change the body’s natural / original biochemicals) – lots of reasons. Scientists tend to ‘clump’ certain ‘biochemical make-ups’ into groups = names of “conditions”. The work has been done. BUT it is still lack of understanding (awareness) around narcissism – hence HG doing his work.

        Imagine, if you will, something you had been trying to achieve and then you do ie passing a driving test, or passing an important exam, or an overwhelming feeling of intense anger – stop and think how these ‘achievements’ make you feel / think. You achieve something = success = feel good.

        From your perspective as someone with emotional and cognitive empathy would be similar to the receipt of ‘fuel’ (whether negative or positive) for someone with narcissism. However, an unaware narcissist may say they ‘feel’ happy / joy but they don’t really ‘feel’ it in the same way as empaths do – normals do have these emotions, yet, not as ‘potent’ as an empath.

        Show your son HG’s article – link attached – if you re-read our comments on it…….

        HG’s book ‘Fuel’ explains it very well too.

        1. A Victor says:

          Thank you Asp Emp, much to consider and study here. I had no idea about some of the more scientific or medical aspects that you bring up. Thank you very much! It will help, both he and myself. I was thinking today that because he has never had close up and personal interactions with a narcissist, he is where I would’ve been prior to the summer narc coming along. I think he did have such interaction with one but he hasn’t put it together yet. Maybe someday. Anyway, thank you!

          1. Asp Emp says:

            Thank you AV 🙂

      3. Leigh says:

        AV & JB, maybe fuel does feel like happiness. I think the difference is how happiness manifests in us vs. the narcissist. I think for us, happiness comes from within. With the narcissist, they need it from someone else. They have to hurt and use people to get it. They are empty, we are not.

        How do we know our feelings are genuine? I think its because we don’t have to hurt or use someone in order to feel those feelings. The narcissist does. They will do anything to create an emotional response from us. We don’t do those kinds of things.

        1. A Victor says:

          Wow Leigh, that makes so much sense!! Thank you! I will explain that to my son if/when it comes up again. You also have a better grasp on that genuine vs real concept, I really struggle with that for some reason. I think because, for me, my marriage and my feelings were real, coming from that place in me, they were also genuine. I will work it out, sometimes it just takes having it presented in a certain way for something to click. Just not yet. Thank you!

          1. Leigh says:

            I read and read and then read some more.

            Even hurting someone, making them cry or angry gives them fuel and makes them feel good or happy. In fact, that negative fuel is the best they can get. They hurt someone and they feel good. Thats how I know its not genuine. When I hurt someone, I feel like shit. It makes me sad and remorseful.

          2. A Victor says:

            So their feeling good is real, to them, but it’s not genuine. bonk, bonk, bonk my head on my bed, I just don’t get this, ugh. It’s as bad as “Forever Wrong Upon the Throne” was, and that, once I got it, was embarrassingly simple.

        2. Truthseeker6157 says:


          I know what you mean there. More with the negative side. I wouldn’t purposely make someone unhappy just for kicks. So I’m not a Greater or a Psychopath then! Mid Rangers aren’t causing unhappiness on purpose. They are doing it to have their needs met. Again, I’d put the needs of loved ones ahead of my own for the most part. So I differ from Mid Range. That said, if push comes to shove and it’s him or me, I’m going with me every time ha ha!

          I’m not sure about the positive side though. Does my happiness come from within? I don’t think it does with me. I’d say I’m set to neutral most of the time. People make me happy. My dog makes me happy. I have to interact with someone to feel happy I think. So in that respect I require positive fuel in many ways. I don’t wake up happy. Actually I usually could kill when I wake up so that’s a bad example. I don’t watch happy films, or listen to happy music. Not sure. Happy is an odd one. I don’t think I generate happiness from within. I make people happy. I make people feel better. I feel happy when I am able to do that. But am I happy myself, from myself, within myself. Don’t know. I’m neutral I think.

          1. Leigh says:

            This is very interesting. I operate in neutral too and then there are external factors that might alter my mood. I think the difference is that I don’t need an emotional reaction to feel good. Also, when a narc gets a negative reaction from you (crying, anger) that fuels him and makes him feel good and probably happy too. We don’t feel happy about making someone cry or angry. Yes, I feel pleasure from a great kiss but I also feel it from a bowl of ice cream or really good cup of coffee. I have moments of despair too. Just like the one I shared above.

            I think the neutral is happy or at least,, contentment. For the most part, I’m content. There is peace and calmness in the neutral. Of course, getting out and staying out would be the icing on the cake and would probably bring me bliss.

          2. A Victor says:

            TS, happiness is transient, and based on external events usually, imo. I do have joy in me though, even in the worst of times with my ex, it was still there. I could be dreadfully sad or upset by him but I still had joy. The only time this was challenged was when I had the hormones each month, that was a whole different thing. And my ex, I now believe, used that against me very viciously, never offering help or support or doing what I would ask but just sitting there soaking up the horrible negative fuel I emitted. But, aside from those days, 2-3/month, I have always had joy in me. It correlates with my narcissistic traits a bit possibly. My maternal parental unit, aka MPU going forward (thank you Asp Emp) could not put it out even, I knew someday I would be free and able to live as I wished. That stemmed from a bit of rebel in me and it made me joyful to know that I was, despite what anyone else might think, really was my own “boss”, independent and free-spirited even against the pressure. I just had to bide my time. My joy is also tied to my hope, and why it is so difficult to push my hope down. I feel like if I don’t have hope, I may as well die. Melodramatic maybe, but, it’s how strong my need for it is. It keeps me even and gives me joy to have it. Being here and learning about my life, so much more joy and freedom, confidence and contentedness (and hope, but I’m trying to hold that back!). I do have moods, they come and go, but I remain joyful even in the midst of them unless they are very extreme. My ex did not have that. He wasn’t neutral though either, oh no, he was quietly driven. He could not stop, ex machina, no joy. He did manage to make my joy go once for a bit longer, the time I went on antidepressants. But that was only a short time, 2 weeks maybe, and it flickered back on. Anyway, all of that to say that I don’t think neutral is a bad place to be, it’s different than empty, like he was, like MPU is. Thank you for sharing your experience with this, it’s good to know that it is different for each of us, I struggle to remember this, and within our differences, we’re all still okay.

          3. Leigh says:

            AV, we are just using different words but we are describing the exact same thing. Its something they can never take from us and something they will never have.

          4. A Victor says:

            That has been my conclusion also!! 🙂

          5. lickemtomorrow says:

            I hope others don’t mind me jumping into this conversation about happiness, but as an empath I experience both happiness and a sense of power at times. I believe there is a distinct difference between the two and it’s very hard to explain. I’ve tried to use a song before to explain it, but not sure if others can relate. Happiness for me is like a warm sensation, a bubbling, or glow inside. It is purely other centred in terms of how it might radiate, even though the feeling exists inside me. It’s effects are harmless, and even beneficial. Power for me is central to my being. It exists for me alone and not for others. While both may give us the sense of being bouyed, power is sourced and ultilized for the purposes of my self esteem, whereas happiness is sourced and utilized for the benefit of others including myself. I don’t know if that creates any greater understanding, but it might align with the way HG describes the sensation which derives from fuel for him, and how that differs from a sense of happiness in the empath. It’s one I’ve had to ponder on as well, and because I believe I experience both at different times that is how I would describe the difference.

          6. A Victor says:

            LET, I always enjoy your input. And I really appreciate this comment, your description of happiness is mine of joy! But mine is inward and my happiness comes more from outward things. The joy is more stable and has the element of contentment, the happiness is more of a mood that comes with things I enjoy experiencing. Your description of power is quite similar to my experience with it also except that mine is a source of my joy and my happiness and they are a source of my power. Thank you for sharing, I find this conversation fascinating.

          7. lickemtomorrow says:

            AV, I can concur with everything you said there, especially as it relates to joy <3

          8. Leigh says:

            LET, I feel power sometimes too and that sensation definitely makes me feel good. Its not happy though. Its two distinct different feelings. Its interesting because I feel guilty when I feel powerful because it means someone else might be feeling less powerful. I always want to reign it in. It can be very alluring. Sometimes I have to remove myself from the situation. Happiness doesn’t make me feel guilty. It just makes me feel good, warm and fuzzy. I’m sitting in front of my computer, drinking a great cup of coffee and I’m happy.

            LET, Thank you for jumping in, that really got me thinking.

          9. A Victor says:

            Yes, the morning cup of coffee, seeing my grandkids faces, finishing a project for work, so many things bring happiness, no guilt, only happiness.

          10. lickemtomorrow says:

            Leigh, thanks for sharing your thoughts and I agree a sense of power can be very alluring. It can also tip over into something else, which is what I think you are describing when you say sometimes you have to remove yourself from a situation. I imagine as empaths, who don’t require that sense of power (as we don’t need fuel), we are much more aware of it and some of the possible consequences. While we can enjoy feeling that way it’s more in our nature to consider others and, yes, that element of disempowerment they may experience at the same time. It probably depends on the circumstances, but we’re much more likely to give that power back to others for their benefit as well.

            Interesting how a Greater might do this with an element of cognitive empathy. Or, at least, this is how I imagine it after watching Taylor Swift’s Reputation tour on Netflix. In the later stages of the concert, and I would imagine fully fueled and feeling extraordinarily ‘powerful’, she begins to thank all the people working with her and for her, and I mean all of them. She doesn’t leave out any minor roles, up to and including the people who will come in and clean up the stadium after the concert is done. Now according to what I understand she will have no empathy for, nor interest in, any of these people. She has no need to mention them at all. I’ve actually never seen an artist do that before. For an artist with empathy, I imagine they would certainly also feel powerful and pumped up with the adulation they receive, the difference being they would do what Taylor did, but at the same time they would mean it. Not that any of the staff concerned would be feeling disempowered necessarily, but recognition would be given to the fact the artist could not do what they do without them. There is no sense of entitlement, etc.

            Personally, I don’t feel guilty when I feel powerful, as I see it as a natural phenomenon which is tempered by my empathic traits. I am happy to embrace it as a way to boost my self esteem, but I don’t take hold of it the way a narcissist might as they require it for their very survival.

            And I like your description of happy, sitting in front of the computer with a cup of coffee and feeling content 🙂 That’s my happy also xox

          11. Leigh says:

            LET says, “Personally, I don’t feel guilty when I feel powerful, as I see it as a natural phenomenon which is tempered by my empathic traits. I am happy to embrace it as a way to boost my self esteem, but I don’t take hold of it the way a narcissist might as they require it for their very survival.”

            That’s it in a nutshell. That gave me goosebumps! Its tempered by our empathic traits and we don’t require it for our survival!

          12. A Victor says:

            LET, I have to amend my previous comment, the one regarding happiness and joy. I went way back in the KTN posts today, back to fall of 2015. In one of those posts, HG describes joy with happiness as a component. I always thought of contentedness being one of the components and happiness a close relative. But, if we take his definition, I would have to change my thinking a bit and say it is contentedness, peace even, that I feel inwardly and happiness and joy happen from an external source more. Anyway, it was interesting, in many of the articles from back then, including the comment sections, HG thought/worded things much differently than he does now. It was quite enlightening and I wish I would’ve done it more thoroughly much sooner. I had done some but not nearly as much as recently. Anyway, I addressed this to you since we seem to see some of this quite similarly. Thanks for listening!

          13. lickemtomorrow says:

            AV, it can become confusing as you try to define these different elements and thanks for feeding back to me on that. They seem to be close companions – happiness, joy, contentment – so it’s hard to separate them out. HG does a great job of defining a lot of these things for us as empaths, and separating them out for the purposes of his narcissistic perspective and comparison. It continues to amaze me how he is able to provide insight even though he doesn’t experience any of these things which, of course, always makes me sad. Another thing HG doesn’t experience 🙁

            It’s so interesting how you are going back to older articles and picking up a difference in HGs thinking and wording around things. There’s probably a refining of ideas that might come with feedback from the comments, too. I did originally review older articles as well along with comments. They were very interesting, but I had trouble locating the pages unless I went back to the beginning again and moved forward one page at a time to get to where I last left off! Now sometimes I click on the older article of the same name at the bottom of the current article if I want to search that particular topic. I did notice commenters say at various stages that HGs demeanour had changed, which probably related to the fact he had acquired the knowledge he needed, refined it, and also had grown his platform to the point he didn’t have the time to respond in the same manner. I noticed he was very questioning of posters in the beginning, like a child who was making new discoveries. I hope he doesn’t mind me saying that. It was intriguing to read the enthusiasm that came with that and I was disappointed at times where I noticed commenters not responding to his questions. I have a huge empathic response to those type of instances. It is not hard to be polite since you’ve taken advantage of reading and commenting on his blog. Very few, if any, questions would be asked of us today. And I have a tendency to wait for the invite to ask for the most part, such as the Q&A’s which were happening this time last year.

            Anyway, that was a lot of blah, blah, blah, but going back on HGs work, and our own comments, can be very enlightening. I remember how passionate I was over my disengagement/discard last year and how I basically let it all hang out here 😛 I generally don’t go back to look at my own posts, but remember many of them, and how I felt at the time. There is a big difference in terms of how I felt then and how I feel now. It was all so intense in the beginning. So, the ET must be lowered and lowering, and the logic kicking in.

            Glad you shared more of your thoughts around that, AV, and we do seem to have a lot of similarities. I can’t always get to the various comments, but I don’t think I’ve read one of yours I haven’t appreciated or enjoyed in one respect of another. I’ve seen you say something about being prolific, but I never feels there’s a wasted word, and there’s one for everyone <3 Now, if that's making you feel powerful, be my guest 🙂 I really appreciate your input here xox

          14. A Victor says:

            LET, wow, thank you for this! No, not powerful but certainly grateful! I try to keep my comments brief and have been trying to use the like button more instead of a comment. You all know me as my children and closest friends irl do, I can be very chatty with them but in most situations I am very reserved. And my children still say I am quiet. Being online and anonymous makes a difference too, add well as written vs verbal etc.

            I have been able to favorite, bookmark, the page I’m on and it will go there when I come back to it. I just recently figured that out though, which did impede progress.

            I too picked up on the questions, very interesting, and was saddened when there was no reply, both for HG and myself to learn more. Everything changes, as his platforms and audience expand I expect there will continue to be even less availability for interaction, this makes me sad personally but happy to have the information spreading. I don’t know how he keeps up now even.

            Thank you again, your comment made my day!

          15. lickemtomorrow says:

            No problem, AV, and I understand that element of gratefulness <3 You've made such a great contribution here, and perhaps the environment (online and anonymous) does make a difference to how we are able to share. And how willing we are to do that also. I will go very deep with people I know and trust in person. Anonymity gives you the ability to do the same online, I guess. Either way, it's helpful and healing. I'm grateful for both those options.

            Ah, thanks for the bookmarking heads up! You've figured it out for both of us 🙂

            Totally with you on HG and his platform … wish I had been here sooner.

            And happy to make your day! I hope you share with your children what a benefit you have been to us xox

          16. A Victor says:

            LET, now I am totally blushing. No i would not share that with my children! Lol, I share what a blessing and benefit you all are too me!!

            I do go fairly deep with a couple of my closest friends but that’s it. Most of my deep stuff is done here. Or in my own mind, which can be good or not so good.

          17. Whitney says:

            I think power is so needed by the Narcissist that it’s pursuit is all that matters. That’s why there’s no room for happiness. Happiness is useless.

            Lickemtomorrow your comment about your own happiness and power was so interesting. Because I don’t know the feeling of “power”, I’ve never experienced it. I think my brother (a super empath) craves power and happiness, like you!

            What is power Lickemtomorrow? What makes you feel that as an emotion?

            My happiness is 8/10 during the worst times and 9 to 11/10 during good times. I’m so lucky for that. All I wish for my children and anyone is happiness. Except bad people – I wish them a torturous death

          18. lickemtomorrow says:

            Hey Whitney 🙂

            What is power? It seems like there are a lot of comments here where people give different expression to what something is, might be, is not and how can we even compare? It’s possible it is different for everybody <3

            In my experience, power is a sensation. That's first up. We know power exists in other forms, but here were are talking about the sensation, I think.

            If I could describe it I would say it lights me up, makes me feel full, strengthens me, embraces me, reassures me, and enables me to believe I am worthwhile and have something to give. I am an Amazon and nothing can defeat me! That is what power feels like to me. Happiness is much more breezy. Power exists in the tempest.

            What makes me feel that as an emotion or sensation? When I achieve something which I think is in its own way unique, meaning I created it and in a way I am the only one who could have done that. So it comes from the act of creation. I could liken it to HG and his articles. He writes these amazing articles and they touch so many peoples lives. They are unique in an of themselves, and they are also unique because no one but HG could have created them. Perhaps HG gets a sense of power from his ability to do this which is separate to the fueling he receives because of it. But something like that would cause me to feel powerful. As an empath I would also be grateful that I have the ability to do whatever it is the creative thing might be. So the sense of power also extends to knowing that any giftedness doesn't come from me. A narcissist might view that as emanating from their own superiority, exceptionalism, etc.

            So much comes back to the fact that each and every one of us are unique individuals, and we all have something to offer. Moments of power for me are when I can rest on those things and appreciate them as unique to me. But I will humble myself also in those moments recognizing that I am not the "author" of whatever it is that makes me unique. While I can celebrate it joyfully, it must always be accompanied by a sense of humility for me.

            Happiness is another interesting concept, and I see you are at times overflowing with it, Whitney xox You are very fortunate that you are open to that experience and have it in such full measure. If I had to guess I would say you are a "heart on your sleeve" kind of person, and that you are greatly moved by things either for better or for worse. I'm with you on the bad people and wishing them a torturous death!

            I don't know if my explanation helps you at all, but since you asked I've given the best description I can. And I don't know if the sense of power can be associated with the Super Empath, but I do have a strong minority Super which could be an indication. Lovely to hear you have a Super Empathic brother as well <3 I hope he is looking out for you xox

          19. A Victor says:

            LET, I love your description of power, that it’s exactly how I experience it.

          20. lickemtomorrow says:

            Hopefully that means I got it right, AV 😉 If two of us can agree we might be onto something <3 It's such a difficult thing to describe, but I've done my best xox

          21. A Victor says:

            LET, well, don’t know if two counts as majority, but we are entitled to our perspective regardless and we two can agree! 😃

          22. Truthseeker6157 says:


            I don’t see hope as a bad thing. Hope keeps people alive. It keeps people fighting for change and for something better.
            I don’t see hope as a false mistress. Unless in the context of ‘just sit there and hope your way out of it.’ I see false hope as a false mistress. Hope itself is necessary.

          23. A Victor says:

            Thank you. I have just been trying to follow the program. It seems people have success when they do that. But don’t worry, my hope is never completely gone! I actually love it and could never NC it, just ANC at the moment. 🙂

          24. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Hey LET,

            How’s you? That’s an interesting comment about power. I think I’m with Whitney. I don’t recall feeling powerful. Confident, yes. Sure footed, yes. Headstrong and decisive, yes. Power? I don’t think so. That could just be semantics though. I think I associate power as power over people as opposed to power in oneself. I think you associate power as within oneself if I understand correctly. I’m definitely lacking on the inner happiness front too by the sounds of things haha! Gawd, I’m beige. Am I beige?! I want to be red!! Xx

          25. lickemtomorrow says:

            TS, I am well, and enjoying reading your comments and accessing the wisdom of everyone here. I think I’ve posted a couple of comments about power now, so I’ve tried to explain a little further around that. For me it is different to feeling confident, certain or sure footed, even headstrong and decisive. Those are all wonderful attributes, that are not always easy to access, and if I were to describe power differently to that I would go back to describing it as a sensation. It wells up from inside you and is the basis of inspiration and insight. It gives you a sense of strength and infallibility. I think I said in my earlier comment when I am feeling powerful I am an Amazon and nothing can defeat me! So, yes, I associate it as something that exists within me and arises out of me depending on the circumstances. Let me go back to a couple of song lines I mentioned earlier:

            “I pictured a rainbow
            You held it in your hands
            I had flashes
            You saw the plan
            I wandered out in the world for years
            While you just stayed in your room
            I saw the crescent
            You saw the whole of the moon”

            The Waterboys – “The Whole of the Moon”

            It is the feeling or sensation of seeing the whole of the moon, holding the rainbow in your hands, knowing the plan.

            I saw your comment about happiness and how you experience it more as an external thing and often in relation to helping others. I think happy comes in lots of different forms for lots of different people. Nobody likes fake happy, so I’m glad you’re not that. And you’re being honest when you say you think you are set to neutral or beige. Nothing wrong with your settings unless you think there might be something underlying that. I do wonder if some of us are geared to just enjoying life while others are deep thinkers and carry that burden through life with them. I’d say being a Truthseeker you have taken a lot of other peoples concerns on board and left little time for your own. That could dampen someone’s sense of spontaneity and potential happiness. And maybe it’s just crappy weather that’s painted life beige for now. I don’t think you are painted that colour at all. You have painted yourself in many beautiful hues here <3 Sometimes we just don't see ourselves as others see us.

            Just to finish where we started, for me both a sense of power and happiness can be fleeting, but power will surge through you and happiness will sit on your shoulder 🙂

          26. Leigh says:

            Perfect description LET! I just want to add that the power & strength makes me feel like no one can topple me. And I agree, power and happiness are both fleeting. I can understand why the narcissist always wants that power.

          27. A Victor says:

            TS, I think you’re a beautiful r

          28. A Victor says:

            TS, sorry my phone froze while I was writing that abbreviated comment. A beautiful rich golden brown beige (outfit) with a red scarf and hat. Lol, that’s actually how I have pictured you! You seem so evenkeel but with a fun spark to you also, that’s why, I think.

          29. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Hey LET,

            I think the way you differentiate between power and happiness makes it much clearer. I understand what you are driving at and can confirm that power is not something I feel or have felt. Unless I have, and put it down to something else.

            Happiness I definitely see as occurring through human contact. I am capable of happy and experience happy or at least a derivative thereof. I wouldn’t feel happy by eating a custard cream for example. I’d say I enjoyed the custard cream, it wouldn’t make me happy though. I could go on holiday to Mauritius alone and say I enjoyed the warmth and the beautiful scenery, found it relaxing etc but it wouldn’t make me happy. If I went to Mauritius with the kids though, or a loved one, I’d experience happiness. Memories would be made that I would replay and smile at. That would make me happy. So I’d be happy at the time and happy thinking about it after. (Thought fuel?!) So for me, I think happy has to involve someone else. Not a place, a thing or an object etc.

            It could be a different classification of the same feeling or, I’m harder to make happy, who knows ?!

            I am comfortable being alone. In fact people can overload me so at times it is necessary for me to withdraw and be alone. I’m not sad when I’m alone, I could be alone for weeks and be content but I wouldn’t describe the feeling as happy either, so again it points to a need for human contact.

            I think happy might be a difference in description, but power I definitely don’t experience. That might be why I question if positive fuel and the power that the narcissist gets from that isn’t actually akin to our happiness. I don’t know what power feels like. It sounds like there is a discernible difference from what you describe.

            Thank you for the compliment as to my hues of colour x. Perhaps we do see others differently to the way we perceive ourselves and more so than we might think. HG has pointed this out to me before. I see myself as Contagion, but that isn’t necessarily how others see me.

            I remember a trainer correcting me on my learning drivers once too. I swore blind I was visual ( I’m most definitely not auditory which is a bit strange given I’m an empath). He said I was kinetic kinaesthetic, one of the two ha ha, led by touch. Perception is interesting isn’t it?

            Thank you for your comment LET, I do now understand what you are describing, even if I can’t relate to it. Xx

          30. lickemtomorrow says:

            Well, looks like HG moderated your comment, TS, and there are more things in it that I can relate to, such as being comfortable being on my own (as I am a deep thinker and not given to superficial interactions – it suits me to spend large chunks of time alone), and also the sense of feeling overloaded by interactions with others at times. While I can enjoy the interactions, I find I need respite from them in order to absorb them and balance my energies again. And I know nothing about energies, except to say that I feel drained and need to replenish. It’s like people drawing from you, in an unaware fashion, and there is an inherent need to replenish the coffers, so to speak!

            When it comes to learning, I find with HGs work I prefer to read for the most part. If someone explains something to me verbally, I don’t take it in as well. Which is why I have a preference for the blog for the most part. It’s not that I get distracted, although I can, it’s just I take it in better when I read. Give me a book in my hand any day as compared to a audio book. Horses for courses, as they say. I’m not sure it has a lot to do with our empathic traits, but that you are led by touch is very interesting. I wonder how you experience that? I do find I love to touch things in nature as well as see or look at them. I’ll touch a tree or leaves just to feel them. It’s an element of exploration, I guess. And it’s also grounding. Not sure if you can relate to any of that. But, I’ve also got a good imagination and can live in my head no problem, visualizing ideas. I just can’t always visualize what someone else is explaining unless they write it down and put it in front of me. Odd.

            Anyway, good chat 🙂 You’ve given more to think about xox

          31. Leigh says:

            I’ve been thinking about this a lot this weekend. Maybe the difference in feelings is due to our empathic makeup. For instance, I’m part geyser. I laugh, yell, scream, cry really hard. My emotions always feels like they are ready to burst. I’m passionate about things I believe in and sometimes I can be a bit of a bully and know it all. Maybe thats the difference. I do like neutral to though. Just this morning I was sitting outside enjoying a cup of coffee with the hot sun in my face. It was calming and peaceful, and that made me happy.

            As for power, NA made a comment about with empaths we will share our power for a good outcome for everyone. Sometimes it manifests that way for me but not always.

            For instance, when my husband tells me how perfect he is a husband and a father, my first thought is, “Really, then why did I let another man in my life?” (In my head, I’m usually more graphic but I’m trying to be a lady right now, lol) Anyway, the power comes from getting over on him. He’s so omnipotent, he’s so fantastic, he’s so perfect and yet he has no idea. And the thought that I can knock him down with this information at any moment, gives me power. With all of that said, its not something I’m proud of. As I was writing it, I felt guilty. That good feeling that the sense of power gives you doesn’t last long. At least not when I’m disempowering someone else. The guilt always sets in.

          32. Leigh says:

            I cant stop thinking about this conversation, lol! Over think much, lol! Anyway, I think the peace feels like happiness for me because so much of my life is chaos. So when I have a moment of peace and calm, it feels like bliss and happiness.

          33. Truthseeker6157 says:


            Something just this second dawned on me. I am manipulative. I confess to being manipulative. Mostly in a work context but I still do it outside work too. When I manipulate and see it worked, I get a kick out of it. That might be more of a power feeling ?

            Example. Yesterday I was taking Sophie to get braces fitted. Sophie is practically dentist and doctor phobic. She’s never sick, so she is unused to being messed with or examined. The process of having to sit in the chair for an hour therefore was a big deal. Once she thinks about it and starts to refuse it feeds in on itself so it reaches a point where she is like a cornered animal, she won’t let anyone near her. There was a high chance she would be too scared to get the braces.

            She really wants straight teeth. There is my in. So she asked me, once the moulds and x rays are done, ( she wouldn’t even let them x ray last time) did I think she would get her braces on that afternoon. So I answered, “ That depends. Time has been allocated to you and whatever they can get done in the hour they will do. So if you do what they ask and they can move you through the process quickly, (no time for her to think) then yes, you will get your braces this afternoon and you will be on your countdown to straight teeth.” (Genuine promised gain) Then the kicker, “ If they don’t get to your braces today though, don’t worry, you’ll still get them, the next appointment will be in 4 or 5 months time, (lie, it’s in June) so you can get them then.” (Manipulation by threatened loss.) I knew exactly what I was doing and used her desire for straight teeth to get her to do what I wanted. The fact that it was for her benefit doesn’t detract from the fact that it was a manipulation.

            She got the braces, I have never before seen her so compliant. She was elated afterwards, elated that she did it, elated that the countdown has now begun.

            I smirked to myself after the conversation that morning, because I knew what I had done and I knew it would likely work. I smiled to myself once the appointment was over for the similar reason but more because she was so elated.

            That could be power. It could just be pride. Not sure. I’d say ‘I get a kick out of manipulating’. When you read my description though, it does sound very narcissistic doesn’t it? I know I’m not a narcissist as I have the empathic side, but as far as that side of me goes, really I use a lot of the same skills as a narcissist, I just didn’t know what many of them were called until I arrived here. I don’t actually set out to manipulate but I will do if the situation calls for it. I don’t manipulate consistently or if it causes harm to anyone else. I do it more as a fast route. So maybe I do feel power, just in a very specific way.

            Given that every interaction with a narcissist is a manipulation, then maybe I do understand the feeling of positive fuel in terms of power not happiness. God knows, I think I’m confusing myself now let alone everyone else!

          34. Asp Emp says:

            TS, good to read that your encouraged your daughter to obtain her goal. That is not manipulation – nor narcissistic. It is you being a strong & loving parent. Your last paragraph is based on your learning & understanding of narcissism. So, you can un-confuse yourself 🙂

          35. lickemtomorrow says:

            First things first, TS, I’m delighted your daughter managed to get her braces fitted and without too much fuss. I have one child who also dislikes procedures so I can relate to the need to find a way around their resistance. In this instance you achieved your aim well and it seems both of you benefited with a win 🙂

            I hadn’t thought of the use of manipulation in terms of feeling powerful (as opposed to happy). Certainly getting ‘the win’ can make us feel powerful, so you might be onto something there. I’ve seen you speaking about motivations, and here the motivation is what would make the difference between empath and narcissist, I think. It is still a manipulation, but in the instance with your daughter intended only for her good. That’s different to the narcissist who seeks to benefit themselves. Remembering the transactional nature of the narcissist as well. It’s possible the sense of power which might derive from ‘the win’ is the same as the narcissist, but it will have a totally different motivation and meaning for the empath. And I suppose we have to remember that we are also a bundle of narcissistic traits, so there’s no denying we can also utlitize and benefit from these, due to the fact we are not angels, and can succumb to both the positive and negative use of these traits.

            Overall, I get the sense you are talking about getting ‘the win’, TS, which may involve some manipulation, and how that can most certainly make us feel powerful. That may be an easy way to separate power out from happiness which generally isn’t part of a manipulative process, happiness being a natural consequence of circumstances in comparison.

            Hopefully I haven’t added to anyone’s confusion as I’ve shared my thoughts xox

          36. Leigh says:

            TS, I loved that story about Sophie! As a mother, I know that I have manipulated a situation more than once. I didn’t find you to be narcissistic at all. You shifted her focus so she could get to her goal. You gave her power and strength. I saw your empathy shining through. No way a narcissist would do this for their child. My husband would have had no patience and would have left me to handle it.

            This story made me happy.

          37. A Victor says:

            These were my thoughts exactly. Shifting things so they can see a bigger picture and come to their own conclusion or outcome is an okay reason to manipulate a situation, I believe. And it does empower them.

          38. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Hey LET,

            Your ideas on this has really helped me straighten my thinking out so thank you. In fact the whole conversation with the various ideas and descriptions has really helped. There’s a trust in here amongst this group which is really encouraging. I loved your paragraph about traits and us not being angels, an acceptance. A trust that if we do manipulate, then on the whole it is done for what we believe to be the right reasons, occasionally for ourselves because we do carry those narcissistic traits too.

            I had written another response to you first before the Sophie story, where I was convinced I didn’t feel power. I pressed send and a few minutes later, I thought, ‘hang on, actually I think I do’ ha ha. It’s in moderation, you’ll laugh when it comes through. I got myself completely turned around. You got me there in the end though!

            The braces have been aching over the last day. Shame I can’t manipulate myself out of this one! Ha ha!

          39. lickemtomorrow says:

            Glad I could be of help, TS, and I’m only sorting it all out in my own head as well <3

            I'll look out for your other response, but I don't think I'll laugh as much as take it as part of the untangling process 😉 Don't you hate it when you hit 'send' and then do a double take?! Often someone will come in with more information or insight and I'll do a double take then as well. It all adds to our progress, which is the main thing.

            And I can empathize with poor Sophie 🙁 My eldest had braces, and I had them, too, when I was younger, so I can literally feel her pain. Thankfully, it doesn't last long, but it can be very uncomfortable. I hope she will be feeling better soon. And she'll definitely feel better when she sees the end result <3 LOL to not being able to manipulate yourself out of this one … but I think your hugely empathic traits might suffice. Nothing like a little of TLC to make her feel better until she does xox

          40. Truthseeker6157 says:


            I’m glad my story with Sophie made you happy. You would be happier still if you had seen us walk out of the dentist surgery! She’s almost my height now, she was fizzing with excitement and probably relief. I was so proud of her, it was a big step forward. We walked back to the car with our arms around each other grinning like crazy people!

            I did wonder after I posted my comment if what I had done there was good or bad. I don’t make a habit of manipulating my own children, they have to make their own mistakes. I have to bite my tongue, hide my shoes and sit on my hands at times though !

            It took four visits to the salon to get her ears pierced ha ha. The dentist would have been way less understanding. She really really wanted to do it, in my mind it was a case of needs must. I’m glad you saw it for what it was xx

          41. Leigh says:

            Maybe manipulate isn’t the right word. Maybe encourage is better word to use in this instance. You were guiding her and there was a positive outcome.

          42. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Hey Asp Emp,

            Thank you for your comment and for seeing my thinking. I’ve taken to analysing things within an inch of my life at the moment! I see things more clearly on the one hand. I like recognising which parts of my empathic make up are automatically taking the lead. I think to myself, ‘Oh bloody hell I do do that don’t I?’ On the other hand, I overthink it sometimes.

            A year on and I’m still fascinated by this subject. I’m fascinated by narcissists but I’m equally fascinated by empaths. More mental space to think about our side since I evicted the online narc from my head! Xx

          43. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Hey LET,

            Very similar! I love people, I’ll talk to anyone in any situation. If I had to do grocery shopping and just say thank you at the till and nothing else, I think I’d implode. I have to engage, have a giggle at something or ask about someone’s day. Then discuss their day haha. Similarly, when I’m done, I’m done and it’s a necessity for me to withdraw. Almost like I’m so tired I can’t string a sentence together. I have always put it down to only child syndrome until recently, now I see the empathic traits in play.
            I don’t know anything about energies either. I just know I need some down time!

            Kinaesthetic learning. Really it just means I learn better when I’m moving. Tactile led, means I don’t need to stand up and move around necessarily (although breaking a meeting so I can stand and move about the room is beneficial) but you might notice fine motor skills in action when I concentrate. I’ll twist a pen in my fingers for example. Alternatively, If I cross my legs, the top leg will be moving slightly, or I’ll wiggle my foot as I read. Basically I’m a fidget when concentrating haha. Telling child me to sit still and listen would therefore be the worst thing to tell me! Turning over revision / cue cards, writing notes, highlighting, lifting post its etc would work better. Changes of position or moving around a classroom, outdoor learning would also work well.

            Yes, similar to you, I also will touch trees or leaves, run my hands through the grass when I sit down or have my feet in the stream on a cool day. It’s part of taking in the surroundings for me. I like to be within my environment rather than just looking at it.

            I agree. I take in the articles better when I read them. Not quite as important now as I understand more of the concepts being discussed. I do enjoy the videos though. I use those differently. Not in the car. The car is for singing along. I listen walking Ralph, sometimes if I’m tasking at home. Like Fiddleress I listen to ‘Ensnared’ as I drift off to sleep. I find HG’s voice settling, comforting. I think there’s irony in there somewhere.

            The Harry’s Wife videos are outstanding. The perfect combination of education and entertainment. It’s the complete irreverence I find most entertaining I think. ‘Bombshell’ makes me laugh every time. HG has a new one now too, the ‘improbably named’ Omid Scobie. Oh how I loved that! The fact that the series is ongoing and people can cross reference Harry’s Wife’s behaviours to behaviours they witness in their own relationships makes the material more understandable and extremely relevant in my view.

            I’m finding those videos interesting from a different perspective than just the content though. I think they are a glimpse into how an Ultra seduces. I find that entirely captivating but similarly knowing what I know, I see it as a warning. I get drawn in to the personality, playfulness and humour, I’m drawn in by the intelligence and the commanding tone. Then I step outside of it and analyse the whys and hows. I believe I feel a warmth. I believe sometimes I hear the true personality and I like it. Sadly, I think I know better. As will said to Hannibal, “I can see you now.” Sometimes I think it was nicer when I didn’t.


          44. lickemtomorrow says:

            TS, I’ve only just seen your comment when this thread appeared in my notifications again … I’m very sorry about the delay. But I do want to respond 🙂

            I hear you on the down time required after engaging. Interesting that you thought it was an only child thing, but that is understandable, too <3 Only children would be used to spending more time alone, but I think empathic traits can lend us to needing that time as well. Might also relate to cadres x

            Ah, I see what you mean about kinaesthetic learning and how that impacts you. The need for movement of some kind as you concentrate and take things in. Pretty sure I did a test at some stage to help determine what kind of learner I was, but now I can't remember the outcome. I don't think I am the same kind as I don't feel the need to 'fidget', and telling me to sit still likely wouldn't bother me. I will have to look up a test online and see how I come out 😉

            I see you also like to experience the environment by engaging with it. I can feel very attuned to nature and can't stand it when I see a tree cut down. It really upsets me 🙁 Fork those people who want nice neat gardens and cut the surrounding trees down to facilitate the 'look' 😛 Give me a wild garden any day and let nature take its course <3

            And the car is definitely for singing along 🙂 I decided Ensnared was for bedtime listening also. The problem is, it's very easy to fall asleep to HGs voice and then I kick myself for missing what he has said! I can't keep my eyes open, so I have to listen again … not a very productive use of my time when all is said and done! And it does seem ironic, but HG has also told us his voice is his weapon. I could say it's like a snake hypnotizing its prey (I think that's what some of them do), but that would seem unkind in the context of how we are benefiting here (and I'm assuming we're not prey to HG in the usual sense of the word!)

            The "Harry's wife" series has been outstanding and so comprehensive, too. HG has outdone himself in providing us with real life examples of narcs in action, and not just Harry's wife. As you mention, we have the "improbably named Omid Scobie" amongst others helping to shore the whole show up, while the likes of Piers Morgan attempt to tear the show down. Never a dull moment, and plenty of fodder for further education. I heard another piece of news around the Duke's death, too – apparently the local Sheriff had to alert the Sussex's as they did not pick up their phone when the Palace tried to contact them during the night. Not sure of the time, but there could be quite a simple explanation (though with the Sussex's I'm always going to second guess their motivations purely because of the narcissistic dynamic).

            Awww, your last paragraph really got to me, TS <3 I think I know what you are saying and how the seduction is apparent with the level of charm and cognitive empathy, the humour, and HGs very commanding voice, of course 🙂 He's hard to resist and we don't want to resist him either, at least not the message he is arming us with. I hear and feel the same things you do, and the line from Hannibal is really very poignant. HG as we experience him here is very relatable and I would love to see him engage in real life and experience the power of his charm and personality in that context. I'm sure he would fill the room, and people would be drawn to him. Who could help but be? There would be an irresistibility about him. And he would be much like that stranger in the forest which Red Riding Hood was warned about. It's as well we are at a distance so as not to fall more fully under the Ultra's spell xox

          45. Contagious says:

            Isn’t it odd like a baby or an enfant who wants mom’s attention they act out in good and bad ways. Studies on narcs I have read said that often the mother does not bond well. I have read also the first 3 years of life are the most important in development. Throw in dna and variant environments… could it be the need for attention is some basic need from the void left early on despite … and if it continues through childhood development. The lack of stability, the up and downs of attachment, could that reinforce that basic need of bonding. And once a person hits maturity would that void ever be formed? Could another once this broken child hits adult ever heal? And why would he or she ever know love or happiness as a mature person or act any differently? They may have seen or heard it on tv or through others but that’s not the same. It’s an observer who copies to fit in with others. Maybe they see a norm or a norm on “tele.” As an adult they can fit in or conform. But inside if you never experienced it, how could you know? I have no answers for the broken child/adult aware man. As empaths I think we want to fix what may be unfixable. But I am not God. We need to protect ourselves against abuse. A mad dog is a mad dog. Sometimes all you can do is pray and be kind, true to yourself. Be kind. Find happiness within and hope they find a way to fix that is what is broken. I have never met a narc rich or poor that was content. There is this constant void. This hunger. I saw it with my antisocial ex-husband. He was clinically diagnosed. I was glad not to be him although he is worth millions. I left. Life is short. Happy people make others happy, the reverse is true. What HG has taught me is the language, the means and the methods those unlike me use. If you first encounter a narc, it’s shocking as foreign like learning a foreign language. Once you learn their language, you understand it, but don’t speak it. You learn or like me…interested to learn more. Hats off to the best language instructor I ever met.. HG

          46. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Hey LET,

            I’d forgotten about this comment too haha! Funnily enough I’ve been reading some of the older threads of late and I think this struggling to reconcile the HG we interact with here versus the HG that operates in the real world is a recurring theme. Other empaths have discussed it previously on the blog.

            HG has said that every interaction with the narcissist is a manipulation. He has also said that here on the blog, in consultation etc there is no need to manipulate because we do not know who he is. Fair point. To my mind the blog is set apart. Everyone speaks openly. So in many ways the HG seen here is the most genuine version. We likely do see him being more ‘himself’. I don’t think he would learn about himself in the same way if he wasn’t being straight. It must feel strange not to manipulate when in every other arena of your life, you manipulate.

            YouTube videos are slightly different. I think there is more of a requirement to meet demand for him. ‘They like humour, insert further humour here.’ etc. No different in many ways though than any comedian writing a set. If the comedy isn’t done in the moment, within a random interaction, is it actually humour? Probably not, it’s comedy writing.

            Humour is an interesting one for me. I have read and listened to ‘the narcissist and humour.’ So I’m aware HG has selected a brand of humour for himself and is portraying a character or elements of characters he knows. He is very consistent though and his brand does match the humour you see on the blog. Playful, sarcastic but not caustic. His fanfare on ‘Ask HG’ for example. I think that was genuine HG. I might be wrong. Overall, I believe the humour on the blog. I think. Haha. Meh. Oh what do I know?! Bloody narcs!

          47. A Victor says:

            TS, Contagious and LET,

            Each of your comments brought me to a thought so rather than do three separate replies, I’m doing over, I hope this is okay.

            Downtime is critical for me, lots of it. Oldest child of 3, zero Magnet, introvert. The definition of introvert that I use is a person who goes inward for processing rather than outward, making sense of things from things outside of themselves. It does not necessarily mean that an introvert is people averse but that we often need time away from people to do our processing. This part of your conversation I found interesting, I am adding to it for purely scientific purposes should anyone be paying attention…cough #@BC30…

            HG’s voice. It is lovely but for me it is so similar to my father’s, and even my son’s, minus the accent, that it doesn’t have the same affect on me that is others state. What I actually enjoy more is the breathing and the throat clearing and the coughing, there was even a good belch on one of the recorded items once that made me laugh for quite a while. Those are not like my dad at all, he was only proper. But they are all the extreme of masculinity, the way HG does them and they are all real, really him, genuine, with no self consciousness or reservation, only an occasional ‘excuse me’ and right back to business. I love that. And, as we’ve discussed before, the background sounds, these make him real, which I find fun. Lastly, I have not assumed him to be older than he likely is because of his voice, based on voice alone you would have thought my 18 year old son was 30 five years ago. No, instead I had assumed older due to the wisdom, which speaks to life experience, in addition to intelligence, which take time to accumulate. But I have come to believe that the speed at which HG travels through life, attached to the logical processing of where to put his focus, in addition to the intellect which allows for lightening speed processing and assimilation of events, has given him an aged understanding of many things ahead of his actual age. Which of course we don’t know so I could be wrong. Maybe he’s 70. Haha. One of my daughters was called precocious by an doctor at about a year. Her teeth and body are literally aging ahead of her real age also, so I have given this some thought before even getting here. It fascinates me, how we age, how others perceive us in that process etc.

            Contagion, I love your whole comment, it makes such sense. I wish we could love them back to health, it is a sadness that we can’t. Best language instructor ever, yes.

            TS, I’m not sure there are no manipulations happening here and in consults, the need to control is always there from what I’ve gathered. But the way it’s done is probably moderated, due to the 5 rules and also HG’s goals, legacy and all. But I think, like you said, that as genuine as he can get, we are likely the beneficiaries of that. Your comments regarding his humor are very interesting, he’s ‘chosen’ a style that he finds works. I have wondered if that changes depending on his environment, does he have different types of humor accessible, waiting up be pulled out and put to work? I expect so given he is a chameleon. He is riveting, as he wants to be! 🙂

          48. lickemtomorrow says:

            Really enjoyed reading your thoughts there again, AV, and appreciate you sharing them.

            I think I have mentioned I am an INFJ on the blog. So introversion is part of my nature also. I’ve never considered myself extroverted, never been a ‘party animal, but somehow I find people will want to interact with me. I have a strong minority Magnet alongside my Saviour cadre. The Magnet has helped to explain some things relating to random strangers and life stories! I’m very surprised you don’t have any Magnet as your interactions here are so encouraging and inclusive <3 I certainly would imagine you to be a drawcard in any setting 🙂 (lol to the cough #BC30)

            I found your comments about HGs voice fascinating, and the comparison also with the men in your life. Interesting how the timbre of the voices is so similar, and how you appreciate more the occasional 'interruptions' to HGs voice, which makes him seem all the more real <3 Thoroughly enjoyed reading that whole paragraph as it's a reminder that it's the little things which add up to make the difference often, and maybe HG will be a little surprised to learn that, too. The ageing process and how that presents is fascinating also, and "old enough to know, young enough to do" could leave the age range wide open 😛 70 could be pushing the boat out a little far, I've got my bet in on the half century, and I can't help but make comparisons to Daniel Craig who cuts a very fine figure for an ageing Bond around the half century mark 😉

            Still, enough of that. Maybe one day we will finally know for sure, and until then HG will remain a riddle wrapped up in a mystery inside an enigma xox

          49. A Victor says:

            Hi LET, you have mentioned that, I’m INTP, so same, not a party animal. People want to interact with me also, I wonder if some of that is just an empath thing but Magnets take it even further. For me, they like me but I’m always looking to get away from them, you probably don’t do that. And, as I’ve said elsewhere, I dislike strongly small talk, again, maybe something you don’t mind as a Magnet. I don’t know a lot about Magnet as I have none, so even reading the article it isn’t familiar to me. Maybe I’m an online Magnet, it’s really the only place I’m so wordy. Many social setting make me quite uncomfortable actually, unless I have an escape route. And I will usually find a person to chat with or stand alone surveying the people. That doesn’t bother me at all, in fact it is the preferred state unless I am concerned that some person that I have an actual aversion to will come to keep me company if I’m not interacting with another person. That’s when that happens. I have it all worked out. And, I am very selective about what social events I will get involved in at all. I usually cancel at the last minute, if I have even said yes. This is very sad isn’t it. But, not to me. It’s just how I am. I don’t like talking on the phone either, unless it’s with a sexy man. Lol! Found that out last summer with the summer narc. Now I have to pay for it. Lol!

            Good grief, I hope 70 isn’t too old to do…

          50. lickemtomorrow says:

            Seems like we’ve both got the introverted intuitive thing going on AV. And I’m sure people being drawn to us is an empath thing as we are often most willing listeners. Could be like deer caught in the headlights to some people! I think they’re the ones you mentioned who you might have an aversion to … escape route left 😉

            Magnet is an interesting cadre, and I like the way HG describes it. The tendency of complete strangers to ‘offload’ is on point and I’ll often be taken by surprise when that happens. They choose me to stop and ask a question in the street, they tell me more personal stories off the bat, they seem to instinctively trust me with their secrets. It’s what I would term a ‘holding’, and there is no one to turn it over to after you have been entrusted with it. Anyway, that’s probably getting a bit obscure, but people will often be more open with you and for no known reason. Except, as HG suggests, you somehow provide a beacon – like a lighthouse on the shore – which draws or attracts people to you. And you’re not aware of it until someone approaches you again. It’s a state of being that is unconscious, I think.

            I often wonder why people think the Magnet cadre of empath enjoys engaging in small talk. My perception is that a Magnet will allow others to talk and be an engaged listener, but more often than not small talk is not what they are engaging in. The other person will likely be baring their soul in some respect, which means the Magnet’s energy is being consumed, but not by any superficial effort at engaging with others. I could be wrong, but I think that’s a more generalized misunderstanding of the Magnet empath. Personally, I find small talk more draining than an hours long D&M 😉 But where most people would accept to D&M with those close to them, the Magnet is afforded this privilege by complete strangers. And for some reason I consider those random conversations a privilege, not an imposition.

            According to HG, our hopeful natures somehow help to form this beacon which others are drawn to, the sad part being the narcissist will look to dim this light as they seek to isolate the empath and keep them under control. There were elements of isolation to all my relationships with narcissists, so that part rings true, but that is the same for any empath. The problem with the Magnet is the fact that as a beacon they draw attention away from the narcissist.

            I’m not a phone enthusiast either, AV, and lol to having to pay for your enthusiasm over the phone with the last narc 😛 I’m sure that’s not the case at all, but I’m wondering now did he have a sexy voice which made him all the more alluring and the seduction more complete? I’d say that could definitely be a drawcard in the narcissistic arsenal. And another lol to hoping 70 isn’t too old … long may our sex drives live is what I say to that one (especially when we’ve had to curb our enthusiasm for far too long)!

          51. lickemtomorrow says:

            Haha, TS, bloody narcs indeed! They keep us on our toes and interesting to know we are covering old ground in terms of our discussion. Understandable we are given to moments of wondering as we try to untangle our own entanglement with the narc. The fact we are doing that with the Ultra Narcissist is probably what puts the spanner in the works. But there is something, at least at my end, which makes that also the reason it feels so right. Strangely, I wouldn’t trust anyone but an out and proud narcissist to tell me everything I need to know. I sometimes go back to the beginning, and the first HG video I listened to, remembering my total shock as I thought “this guy’s talking like he’s the narcissist!” I mean, who would just come out, in that very polished manner, to tell everyone that they are one of the most heinous human beings on the planet? And I do mean that in the sense my comprehension of the narcissist was thoroughly negative . How could there be a narcissist who was so willing to tell it like it is, add a touch of humour, be willing to crush the empath opposition, and do it with a posh British accent? It didn’t seem real until I came here and found out for myself that there existed a thoroughly unique individual who was literally holding out a key for me to unlock the mysteries of my life. And I could communicate with him. And he would give me the answers.

            And it was what I needed more than anything after my third go round on the narcissistic merry-go-round <3 xox

            I think my ultimate take on the blog is that it's transactional, but not designed to be manipulative. Mainly for the fact most of the conversation happens between empaths, and HG will occasionally add a dose of logic to help us along. HG can continue to grow his legacy, and we continue to benefit from that. In that sense it is very 'benign'. I never hear a bad word about any direct interactions with regard to consultations, and I listened to one that a chap put up on YouTube, calling it an interview when it was really just his own consultation, but "the patience of a Saint" was the only way to describe HGs handling of that situation.

            And that's what probably floors me. The Ultra Narcissist has time for the little people. Definitely where I get caught out. He should have no time for us. But he makes time. Once again, no doubt, the transactional nature of the narcissistic dynamic. It only works if HG is getting something out of it as well. It is being done to fulfill his aim, and we are just the fortunate beneficiaries of that. Lucky us 🙂

            I think the ultimate hurdle comes in when you use words like 'genuine' and 'being himself'. We all know for the most part who we are. Our genuineness comes from within and a certain depth to our being. If I rely solely on what HG has explained, his construct supplies him with what he needs to get on in the world. I know you know this already, but I'm just putting it into words for my own benefit here … the construct is what we are interacting with. Perhaps a shard of someone's humour here, a little of his father's teaching capabilities there, and so on. It might be whatever works, and some of it might have been working well for quite a while. There is a consistency which probably alludes to the reliability of the construct.

            Having said that, it's difficult at times to imagine HG is only showing us he wants us to see, and which has been carefully constructed to be presented to the world. Or maybe that isn't so hard to imagine. The element of control is what the narcissist is constantly desiring and the construct enables that control. I'd say HG would lose a certain amount of control if he just told us all to "Fuck off!" like he did with his neighbour (in Malice). But he told one questioner on the blog that as he is normally so charming, the neighbour is going to take that back on themselves and wonder what they had done wrong, with an apology to quickly follow suit. Still in control.

            A method in the madness, but bringing us all the way back to the beginning of my comment and the end of yours, TS … bloody narcs!

          52. Truthseeker6157 says:


            It’s the hardest thing to wrap your head around isn’t it? An inability to experience positive emotion. I read the words but I can’t quite believe the words. Somehow somewhere along the line I want to believe that the narcissist can remember moments of joy, a bond with a sibling, a moment of true happiness in the sense of how we experience happiness. If the narcissist could reach all the way back I feel that the emotions were there once, but then were switched off. If switched off there’s a fighting chance they could switch back on. I am assured this is not the case. HG explains this in ‘Can the Narcissist Be Cured?’ I understand what he means. I am 99% convinced. The 1% I’m holding in reserve for the Ultra. I don’t underestimate that particular narcissist.

            Most narcissists aren’t even aware they are narcissists, those that are aware see no benefit in these positive emotions. As you say if they haven’t experienced it, how would they know it’s worth having? I get it, why take the risk to find out. In that position I don’t think I would either.

            A mad dog is still a mad dog. I liked that. One thing is for sure, we can’t sacrifice our own sanity for the narcissist. We can’t control the narcissist. We can and will succeed in controlling ourselves now that we are aware of our own status as empaths and can now recognise the predator which is the narcissist.

            I am also figuring out more about myself as an empath through being here. I find that equally as necessary and as fascinating as furthering my understanding of narcissism. I’ll end my post here, but I have some questions for you about Contagion and what you felt from your narcissist. I have a strange experience to tell you about and would very much like your take on it. A lot of the time I wonder if I’m simply imagining things!

          53. Leigh says:

            TS, I had left a comment for you on Ask HG but I don’t think you saw it. I’m very curious about the Contagion Empath as well. Here’s my original comment:

            Are you contagion? I want to know more too. I only have a little bit. I can remember twice in my life where I felt someone else’s emotions. It was a very intense feeling.

            The first time it was with my niece, she was probably 5 or 6 years old and she had hurt herself and was crying to her mother. I remember feeling her pain and I started to cry myself. Everyone around me was like, oh my gosh, you’re crying. I said it was bizarre, I could actually feel her pain.

            The second time, I was with my girlfriend and she was panic stricken and scared. Again, I could feel her anxiety and sense of dread. I may have other instances but those two stand out.

            Do you have any examples that you would want to share? Like BC30, I want to learn about the empath now. Screw the narcissist!

          54. Truthseeker6157 says:


            How strange! The breathing, I love the breathing! Hahaha! Sounds utterly bizarre, but I think it’s for the same reason. It proves he is real. I don’t want him to sound like a CD. I want him to sound real. Laughing at the belching, I missed that, I’ve heard his tummy rumbling quite a lot though!

            In answer to your humour question, my opinion is yes. I think HG will switch his brand of humour dependent on audience and situation. We all do that a bit to be fair. I think there’s an element of automatic fitting in with lots of things but I think HG is more calculated. He must have to be, he isn’t feeling the responses in the way we do, more, assimilating the responses through visual cues I think. A fine art, probably all kinds of layers to it. His real formative years were in the North, so in my view his fall back style will be a more northern humour but minus the self deprecation. I don’t believe he could bring himself to do that! Very observational, cheeky, playful, high in sarcasm. Yorkshire folk are naturally funny on the whole, he has been given plenty to work with, that’s before we include social circle.

            The other thing I pick up from the videos. Elocution lessons. If I’m right that was probably Matrinarc driven. It wouldn’t do for HG to have a strong Northern accent, and it’s very difficult to avoid. He won’t have a Yorkshire accent. He comments on the fact his accent was different to the other kids in Angel of My Creation. I think he likely sounds from the North, but you wouldn’t be able to put your finger on exactly where in the North. I think that HG doesn’t fear being recognised by his voice, because his accent is very different to the BBC accent we hear on the videos. We know HG can do accents, he showcases them in Narc Tales. He might have 4 or 5 up his sleeve ready to trot out. I might be wrong. I don’t think so though. The chameleon aspect will include phrasing and accent, I don’t believe he uses software to alter tone.

            I also think I’ve seen the cabin and HG’s car haha! Probably a red herring.

            Fun to speculate! Xx

          55. A Victor says:

            TS, his cabin! And his car!! You seriously could hear “Daddy’s home…” in your ear!!! That…should be scary as all get out, but I’m sitting here giggling about it. Sorry. I mean, the worst that could happen is “My new IPPS’s handle is “TS”.” Okay, that would be bad. Brass necking just popped into my head. You see the wry smile, brass neck it the opposite direction!!

            I can’t believe you love the breathing too! Why does that surprise me? Probably a lot of people, women, do. Yes, now that you mention it, we do alter our personas in different settings also. And I agree, it is natural for us and probably a bit of work for narcissists. Very interesting about the accents. I wouldn’t know the difference, even if I could hear it, between here or there. But I know HG has spoken about having different accents an his disposal, as well as a recording voice vs a normal speaking voice. I don’t believe there is any software involved either. Interestingly, tonight I searched HG Tudor, due to the conversation Bubbles and Asp Emp are having, it’s quite humorous, and he came up on Quora with some woman who claims to be his ex. She alludes to him being in the US. I don’t believe that either. He’s definitely not faking a British accent over an American one at that level. It was interesting to read someone else’s perspective, I looked at another one that popped up, Red Pill something, that was just vicious. Unbelievably so. And actually to the point of being laughable. I hope those places don’t have large audiences.

          56. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Hey Leigh,

            I didn’t see your original comment, so sorry, thank you for catching me here and repeating it x.

            Contagion is my second strongest school, so I’m not full Contagion and might not be the best empath to ask. Contagion is an odd one because it’s something I can’t quite explain or put my finger on a lot of the time. It’s the ‘odd’ side of me. I could put things down to an over active imagination. I could put things down to coincidence. If that’s the case, then I’m very coincidence prone!

            What you describe with your niece, is what I believe to be Contagion. I don’t experience the physical pain of others. I experience the emotional contamination of others. So, if you were to sit with me and tell me about an event that is upsetting/ worrying you or making you angry, I will feel upset worried or angry. When we leave each other those feelings continue / stay with me for several days after. I recognise that the sadness etc does not come from me / doesn’t belong to me. I know it’s yours. But it sits in the background behind the feelings that I’m generating myself from within myself. A bit like a neighbour’s music playing whilst you watch your own tv I suppose.

            One on one that doesn’t cause me a problem. It’s not pleasant sometimes but it’s not problematic. When I am packed within a crowd, it causes me more problems. There is no conversation in this case, but I can pick up on emotions. So I can’t read minds haha but I can feel very squashed in. Not through lack of space, but through a sense of ‘noise’. It feels like walking on a windy day. I can’t see the pressure of the wind, but I can feel the pressure of the wind if that makes sense?

            When I am in conversation I listen to the words, I take in information. But I automatically ‘reach’, best word I can think of. I reach to feel the emotions behind the words. So I can tell if words don’t match the emotional stamp behind them. You can’t lie to me in person, without me knowing. I don’t call each lie out. I am more interested in why the lie was used. As Dr House said, ‘everyone lies.’ I reach in every single conversation with every single person. It never turns off.

            There are lots of things I sense that I can’t prove. I’ll spare you the stranger side but will underline the fact that I’m a natural cynic. I am not given to the magical or mystical at all. I do know that there is a reason for me getting a sense of things though and I obey it. So for example, I move location a lot. I have moved house and shopped for houses a lot. I love old houses because they have soul. In Nottingham after four or five months of searching I found the perfect house, old, perfect location, perfect size, perfect. I drove past it and was convinced I had found it. I arranged a viewing. Met the agent at the house, sunny day, pretty. We walked to the door and she unlocked it. As the door opened and I went to step forward, I stopped. Almost like I was going to walk into glass. All my senses said stop. There was something very wrong with that house. I refused to go in and apologised for time wasting. No logical reason. No history available for the house, nothing wrong on the face of it. If you gave me that house for free I wouldn’t take it. So I do weird stuff but only occasionally, and my view is, go with your instinct because instinct has a purpose.

            I do wonder if I’m just imaginative. I visualise a lot. I remember in pictures and I can revisit memories to a ridiculous extent, like they are a video that I walk back into. I don’t remember so much as relive. I really think this is why the fifth arena of interaction posed such an horrendous problem. I wasn’t remembering things I was still ‘living’ things.

            I would have placed myself as Contagion School but this is not the case. So full Contagion empaths must experience things differently / more intensely. It’s possible I experience certain things equally as intensely as full Contagion empaths but perhaps am not in possession of the full range of Contagion traits. Not sure Leigh. Xx

          57. Leigh says:

            TS, The little hairs on the back of my neck are standing up! I remember being in Macys during Christmas time in NYC. I don’t know if you’ve ever been there, but its chaos. I normally love it there during the holidays. This particular time though, it freaked me out. So much so, that I still think about it until this day. I think I was 19 at the time. I got on the crowded elevator and I immediately wanted to get off. The feeling was so intense that I needed to get off. I couldn’t handle it. Like you said, there was so much noise.

            I also feel exactly the same way you feel about old houses. I tell my children all the time that I love old houses because it has a story to tell. It took me 18 months to find my house that I live in now. If it didn’t feel right, I didn’t want it. My home was built in 1954.

            As for lying, I always know when someone is lying too and I won’t call them out on it either. I don’t think its necessary either. In my head, I always say, “they’re not lying to me, they’re lying to themselves.”

            I’m only 10% contagion so it doesn’t happen to me all that often. I guess it depends on the intensity of the emotion they are feeling.

            Thank you for sharing TS. I really appreciate it.

            P.S. Thinking about the narcissist is the 5th Arena of Interaction.

          58. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Leigh sorry, I might have that wrong. ‘Thinking about the narcissist’ is that the fifth arena of interaction? I get my spheres and arenas confused haha! Anyway, I’m referring to the Final Battle, ‘ Thinking about the narcissist.’ Xx

          59. Truthseeker6157 says:


            Yes, I have been to Macy’s at Christmas and it is utter chaos! Houses most definitely have a story. It’s funny I’ve noticed crowds outside are not as bad as crowds inside. If the location has a roof and walls the feeling is worse. I know this sounds like claustrophobia but it truly isn’t. The thing that helps is touch from someone I’m with. So if I was at a concert with a boyfriend and he stood behind me with his arms around me, or a hand on my shoulder etc, that helps a lot. Sam has seen me uncomfortable before now and has silently taken my hand. Instinctively knowing what to do.

            The full Contagions can likely pick up a lot through voice and text I think. I tend to need the physical proximity. If it’s a close relationship I would pick up things through the voice, I wouldn’t be sure of myself through text, but I’d pick up everything if they were in front of me. I’m not sure if it’s emotional output, presence, life force, energy, soul, what it is that I sense. Again, full Contagions likely do know.

            It’s one of the reasons I haven’t consulted with HG. Though I’m very curious and have questions I’d like to discuss. I actually am not sure what I’d pick up from him and how long I’d have to carry it around with me afterwards. If I felt a manipulation I wouldn’t accept it and I wouldn’t trust him further. I need to be able to trust him because if I don’t then I would question everything to date. Just voice should be fine but I have wondered about it. That said, the MMRA was just vacuous. There was no depth to him at all. Nothing going on behind the scenes. Probably why we were always in bed haha! The MMRB, was different again. He was constantly in flux at the start. I didn’t sense emotion with him either. What I sensed was someone constantly constantly changing their mind. That’s what it felt like. Other times, nothing at all. I’d visualise clouds haha, there was just nothing to pick up on.

            Music. Nightmare. I have felt the narc in the room and smelt him when I listened to a particular song he sent. I don’t listen to that song any more. I don’t do happy music unless it’s dance music when I’m working out. The rest is dark or sad. I’m not a dark or sad person either but I use music to feel something. If the day is mundane, or I’ve been alone a lot, it’s almost like I have to get some depth of feeling from somewhere. I use music to do it.

            I do sound weird. I do realise this. I’m reasonably sane most of the time though! Promise!

          60. Leigh says:

            I haven’t done a consult either with Mr. Tudor. You raise a very interesting point. If you lose trust in him then does all of this go away??? How can I be validated by someone that I don’t trust? I’m not giving up this feeling of being validated. I can’t do it. I like that I’m finally validated.

            I know what you mean that it sounds like claustrophobia. That’s what I attributed it to when I wanted to get off the elevator that day. But I’ve been in closed quarters since that day and only one other time did I have a similar reaction.

            I don’t think you’re weird at all. I find it fascinating. I hope BC30 is seeing all this.

            May I ask, what happened with Sam & Sophie’s father? Is he one of the narc’s you talk about? If I’m overstepping, please feel free to tell me so. I will understand if you’re not comfortable talking about him.

          61. Asp Emp says:

            TS, RE: consult with HG. Trust me on this, you will kick yourself for having any doubts about having a consult with HG for the reasons you have listed. He is a professional. Overcome your ‘fears’, you will still trust him after the consult. Probably trust him more. I would not say otherwise. x

          62. A Victor says:

            Asp Emp, I’m glad you said this, I concur. TS and Leigh, you might even know you’re being manipulated, but it won’t break trust. HG is professional, fun, patient, extremely informative and intelligent. After the first time I spoke with him I realized that he does manipulate, he’s a narcissist, it’s what he does. But it is not like when my ex did it, it is harmless (benign) and can even be useful whether for teaching or calming (me, only because I can get emotional at times, it is an emotional journey for me:)). Everything he’s ever told me has been rock solid, often practical, and absolutely useful toward understanding and overcoming my past and also my ongoing fears which are leftover from the past. No pressure of course, just simply sharing my experience.

          63. Leigh says:

            TS, The more I think about this, the more I realize that I intuitively know things. You were talking about how you know when someone is lying. Often times, I do too. Especially when its someone who is close to me. When I lie, they always have to be well thought out because I don’t want anyone to sense I’m lying. I think that way because I can sense when someone is lying so I just assume everyone can sense it. I also know when someone isn’t telling me the whole story. I always say to myself, “They’ll tell me when they are ready.” Then, eventually, they end up telling me.

            Here’s where I’m going to get a little weird, lol. I always feel like there is someone sitting on my shoulder, guiding me, whispering in my ear. I tell people all the time I have a guardian angel who sits on my shoulder. I don’t hear them all the time but it does happen on occasion. For instance, I keep my phone on silent from 9pm to 7am. I only allow certain calls or texts to come in from my children, my husband or my mother’s nursing home. Well the other day I was driving to work and it was probably 6:45 or so and the phone was still on silent. Something told me to check my phone and sure enough, there was a call coming in. I love when those kind of things happen. It gives me goosebumps. It makes me feel connected.

            I’m so glad I asked you the question. Thank you for your response.

          64. Truthseeker6157 says:


            Sorry, only just saw your last comment to me. I’m getting some notifications for each thread but not all. Probably as the threads I’m on are pretty lengthy x

            ‘Daddy’s home’. Seriously, you crack me up with this one. I believe I’ve seen the cabin and the car but not first hand. Good job, I’m a curious little empath and you know what they say about curiosity!

            I do brass neck it a lot. If you look confident, people generally buy in to confidence. I play dumb quite well too. Haha!
            “Hello TS, Daddy’s home.”
            I find the two approaches cover most bases!

            I believe the cabin is featured in the relaxation YouTube video. The car is shown for a split second background left. Looks like a Jag F Type in grey metallic. Nice choice if it is. Quick, fun to drive. It’ll take most things on the road. Although, probably not me on a roundabout. 😎


          65. A Victor says:

            TS, no problem. I haven’t been getting notifications for this thread at all for quite a long time it seems. And some pretty fun conversation has been going on! Well, catching up now.

            What do you mean “not first hand”? You mean in the YT video? I figured that was his cabin also. Didn’t notice a car, I’ll have to watch again and see if I can spot it!

            I know, I am curious too!! And pretty fearless in that regard, haha!

            Yes, the confidence, even when faked, and the playing dumb, two worthwhile ploys to master!! Lol, now you’d think I’m a manipulator but I prefer to think of them as feminine wiles! No, these are only used in extreme circumstances, such as running into HG would be!

          66. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Hey Asp Emp,

            Don’t get me wrong, I have absolutely no doubt as to the level of professionalism employed by HG. None whatsoever. The testimonials are proof of that. My own experiences interacting with HG on the blog and on occasion via email have all been productive, courteous and enjoyable.

            I wouldn’t class my reservations as ‘fear’, more a lack of certainty over my own responses / interpretations as opposed to his. What?! I am an over thinker! I over think!!

            It’s actually a moot point. Currently, I don’t have the level of privacy required to consult at home. I also live in country bumpkin land. One bar of phone signal at best when I’m out and about. If I urgently needed to consult then I would have to find my way round it, but I’ve never really placed myself in the urgent category given the type of ensnarement. I view HG’s time as being better spent elsewhere.


          67. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Hey Leigh,

            I’m the last person to listen to as far as a consult goes. First of all, I haven’t had one, secondly I have managed to overthink my way out of all kinds of things that would no doubt prove beneficial for me! I steer clear of doctors, tests and all sorts of stuff I should do because I don’t feel comfortable giving personal information. I definitely have trust issues, so seriously, I’m not a good person to listen to on this type of thing!

            It’s a natural question to ask, the one about Sam and Sophie’s father. He isn’t a narcissist or an empath, he, like my mum sits at the narcissistic end of normal. I haven’t put him through the NDC. I would struggle to find enough to say on the NDC, so this in itself pretty much tells me he isn’t a narcissist.

            His influence on my life is current. I’m pretty good at talking openly about my past because my decisions have already been taken. Current and to an extent, future, fall within the category of ‘confiding’. I’m unable to do that unfortunately. I back up. My palms get sweaty just thinking about it! It was a natural question to ask Leigh, it’s just one I’m not able to fully answer xx

          68. Leigh says:

            I completely understand. I tend to be a little nosey, lol. Its the truthseeker in me.

          69. Truthseeker6157 says:


            I bet LET chuckled to herself when she read your comment. I too describe having a guardian angel on my shoulder. Mine is affectionately named Bertha. She holidays in Blackpool. They like Blackpool the guardian angels, she has a penchant for sugar dummies. ( I do visualise a lot) I joke about Bertha, but, actually there have been times where she has stepped in on my behalf.

            You describe something I would refer to as ‘knowing’. You don’t know why or how you know, you just know. When we returned from the US, the area we moved to is close to my parents but I had no friends here. Fastest way to meet people is to get a local job, so I worked in a clothes shop in a small town close by. Very old building, beautiful shop, used to be a saddlery. I loved opening and closing the shop, there was a calm about the place. I loved being there alone.

            A woman walked in one day, bought lots of shorts and tops. My new friend Kayleigh (out of towner like me) was packaging it all up at the till. The chit chat began. The woman was going on a trip. A few different countries, it sounded lovely where she was going to go. I stopped what I was doing and looked at her. She smiled. She said it had been a few years since she had been away, that they had had some bad luck but now ‘it was time’. She was still smiling.

            Her eyes were flat, the smile was an effort. A valiant one, but an effort. She didn’t want to go away at all. She wanted to be left alone. She wanted the whole world to leave her alone in fact. Her heart was aching as she spoke. I could feel the pressure across my chest. The emotional pain coming from her was paralysing. I could feel my eyes welling up with tears, so I left the shop floor and went in to the kitchen out of the way.

            This was a woman who had lost a child, not a baby, a child, 7 or 8 maybe, a girl. It was as a clear as me telling you about my morning. I just knew. Kayleigh didn’t pick up on anything at all, was still talking about how lucky the lady was to visit the places she was going to etc when I went back out. She was upbeat, unaffected by what had just happened. Oblivious. People are oblivious a lot of the time.

            A few months later a new lady called Ulla started working with us part time. The lady who had been travelling came in again one day and the two of them clearly knew each other. They stood talking for a short while close to the door. I left them to it.
            Later, after the lady had left, Ulla made reference to her. They were acquaintances more than friends. “She’s such a lovely lady, it was so sad what happened, she lost her daughter a few years ago….”

            I don’t pick up on things as clearly as that all of the time. I am surprised though by how little others around us pick up. How happily oblivious like Kayleigh most people seem to be. I think I’d be lost without the extra layer of communication. I rely on it. Essentially that’s what it is I think. An unspoken communication.

          70. Leigh says:

            TS, I loved this story. I always just assumed that everyone has a “spidey sense”. Now I realize we are special and bad ass witches.

            I feel like my guardian angel has definitely warned me on occasion too.

          71. lickemtomorrow says:

            TS, I do remember you speaking of the angel on your shoulder 🙂 and how lovely she has a name! Bertha sounds like a down to earth gal’ who enjoys a good time as well <3 Who can say 'no' to a sugar dummy? xox Bertha also has a serious side by the sounds of things. She's an interventionist. We can all use one of those at times …

            Can totally relate to the sense of 'knowing' and in some ways it plagues me, often because others do not have the same sense and it can become very isolating. Not quite "I see dead people", but it's up the same alley. I wonder if you find this 'sixth sense' isolating, too?

            Your story of the woman coming into the shop is really very touching, and must have also been very distressing for you. To have actually 'known' her dilemma, without actually knowing it, is incredibly unusual. That you got confirmation of her experience at a later date is also quite unique. We can often be like ships passing in the night.

            I have no signs of being a contagion, so not sure why I can relate in a similar manner, although I'm not sure if what I would call distinctly 'spiritual' moments are the same or accounted for … there does seem to be some kind of a crossover for me.

            I recall one very distinct occasion when I attended Mass one day many years ago. There was a young girl, around age 5 or so, who arrived with her parents. For some reason my eye was immediately drawn to this child. I don't know why as many children would attend Mass with their parents. She was well dressed, as most children are also when being brought to Church. But I got a very strong sense there was something distinctly wrong in the circumstances. There is no way to put my finger on what it was, but I did sense the child was suffering with no outward indication that was the case. One of the first thoughts that came to my mind was sexual abuse. I prayed hard for that child during the Mass and in following days. I never saw her or her parents again at the Church, but the powerful impact of seeing her on that one occasion has stayed with me. Also the sense of powerlessness, apart from prayer, to able to do anything about it. If I didn't have the option of prayer, in all honesty, I don't know where I'd be when it comes to these things. And I had to turn that little child over to God in whatever her circumstances might have been. I had no other choice after being 'tapped on the shoulder' that day. But, I'll always assign a reason to that tap on the should as well. It's a moment of recognition for me that something exists outside of ourselves, and has brought about a connection which is outside our understanding. I've found a way to turn those moments over. And I see you understand them as an unspoken communication.

            Contagion is kind of like a sixth sense, I would think, going by what you and Leigh describe. Maybe I have a kind of 'spiritual' contagion? But there will definitely be things I sense about people and situations which alert me to something being wrong or the need for prayer (in my case). Or even just alert me to that extra layer of need.

            You obviously have a very strong connection to others in a way most people don't, TS. Reading comments on your reluctance, or decision, not to opt for a phone consult up to this point in time has an added layer in the circumstances, and I can relate to much of what you have said, although I have given a different perspective and reasoning for the same. I think both of us would agree on the benefits according to the accounts of others and accept the pure professionalism of HG.

            It's been so interesting to read more of your story and how that impacts here as well <3 xox

          72. Leigh says:

            TS, I agree with LET. Your experiences are so interesting and fascinating and has had a huge impact on me. They have brought me to a greater understanding of myself.

            My grandfather died when I was around 17 and I always thought it was him. I didnt realize it was innate in me. You sharing your experiences has made me see this piece of me. Thank you TS.

            LET, maybe its not just contagion that has that spidey sense. Maybe all empaths do. Maybe the contagion just feels it stronger. I’m only 10% contagion. Its interesting, I’ve always had the “tapping on the shoulder” but didn’t really pay much attention to it. Its just been the last 10 years or so that I’ve been more attuned to it.

          73. Truthseeker6157 says:


            Such an interesting comment and one I could happily discuss with you all day x

            Your description of what you felt from the little girl at mass in many ways is a better example. I’ll attempt to dissect logically!
            There was absolutely no reason for you to pick that girl out. There was absolutely no reason for you to think about abuse in that location and at that time. I know what you mean when you lock on to someone. You picked her out and locked on to her and for whatever reason, the conclusion you drew felt very real. You know but you have no proof that you know.

            It is possible we are sensitive to cues that others don’t notice. Micro movements, almost imperceptible but they are still there. A slight movement away from the parent, a slight shift in stance, a difference in eye contact, a movement that signalled discomfort. All of these small signals register in your subconscious and result in a conclusion. Your experience is better in some ways as it was without verbal communication.

            Looking at the lady in the shop. There was a verbal cue. “It’s time”. It was lost on Kayleigh. It wasn’t lost on me. It’s an odd thing to say. Same process. List the possible instances of ‘ bad luck’. Loss of job or income, illness (both more likely) loss of a family member, (you would assume parent not child) all are possibilities to explain why going away was previously not an option. The subconscious clocks it, lays the body language and micro movements over the top and reaches a conclusion. Loss of a child (to know the child was a girl is tougher, the age range could be an estimate given the age of the mother)

            Technically, HG could have drawn the same conclusion as I did, possibly as you did though tougher in your example. He is a people reader and highly skilled. He will pick up on every expression, every change of tone, likely most micro movements. His fuel depends on his ability to do just that.

            However, logic aside. I don’t recall consciously reading the lady in this way. I was busy at the time, distracted. My emotional response is empathic but did it come from me based on the conclusion drawn? Or, did it come from her? I believe the emotion belonged to her. I believe I sensed a young girl. I believe what I felt was based on sensing her emotion, not on a logical assimilation of information. It just so happened by sheer chance on this occasion I found out what I had felt was accurate. As you say, most of the time, we can’t prove what we feel.

            Looking at your example, my opinion is that you felt something and, your faith does mean that spiritually, in that church environment your spirituality and faith would be heightened. So it makes sense to me that ‘Contagion’ and ‘Spirituality’ operate in very similar ways and for similar reasons. Senses are heightened, our minds and hearts are open. The memory of that scene and what you felt stayed with you. Similarly the memory of the lady in the shop has stayed with me. The feeling of sadness stayed with me for several days afterwards. It sat in the background. The emotion was not generated from within me in my view. I know what is mine. I can’t prove that though!

            Contagion is tough to measure in my view. Mostly because those who experience emotional Contagion will not discuss it openly. The conversation with Leigh and I underlines that. It’s a feeling of, ‘I know this sounds crazy but…’ In some ways, faith is similar I suppose. ‘Show me the proof that God exists.’ Proof for you is not necessarily proof to him, or her, or they. It’s personal. It’s a ‘knowing’ and I believe that should always be respected, no matter what the faith or belief. X

            Contagion is only my second school. Joint second with CoD 😊. That might not mean that it is a weaker influence on me. Just that there is an overriding influence from another school. It’s funny there is a question on the EDC. I won’t say which question. I paused over it, changed the answer back and forth. I knew what it was asking and it was about Contagion. I answered in the negative because although I would know, I would not show that I knew. I would instead ask out of courtesy and normalcy. HG might get that, he might not ha ha! The very fact that I wouldn’t show I knew likely indicates another school so you could argue that case as well I suppose!

            Leigh, LET, I love our conversations, the understanding and willingness to consider all things, even in the less logical / provable areas. Sometimes, it’s enough just to know, without having to prove that we know xx

          74. lickemtomorrow says:

            TS, another lovely, thought provoking comment which I will need to take my time to respond to in this instance.

            There are a number of perspectives to take on how these moments occur, and I appreciate you ‘dissecting’ the possibilities. There is a logical perspective, and a not so logical perspective. I know HG is all about the logic and our ability to find answers in that. Respect to the notion of being able to lower our ET in that regard. It is definitely useful, and best not to come to any other conclusions until you have thoroughly examined an episode from a logical standpoint.

            You touched on the verbal cue which you received in your encounter, but also said that you were distracted at the time. Could factor in and possibly did. It will be the tone of voice, the other visible signs (reading the eyes, etc) which can all provide clues. In that sense, all the indicators of a life changing event are evident, except the actual details. Somehow they became known to you on that occasion. The woman had lost a child, a daughter no less, and you felt the grief of her loss in that moment. To me that goes beyond Contagion. I’m not sure if HG has written about Contagion, but it seems where you might experience or take on the emotions of others in a very real way, it does not involve actually knowing why those emotions exist. That is a true gift, if I can put it that way. And may also be a burden.

            You also mentioned a house and your feeling of not wanting to enter. Leigh mentioned being in a lift and needing to get out. All very strong indicators you are both sensing things other people aren’t. And with no rhyme or reason to why that is happening. Definitely an extra layer of sensitivity to external forces.

            When it comes to my experience, I can only describe it as a lightening rod moment. And it seems there are all kinds. There was no interaction, just a sighting and an emotional gut punch. It was so strong. Which is the reason I remember it to this day. And I think the unexpected nature of it is also what impacts. You just become overwhelmed in that moment for no known reason. In a sense, something is being imparted to you, which could relate to the ‘catching’ nature of the Contagion. You are catching others emotions. The ‘knowing’, I think, accounts for something different. Both indicate a sensitivity that goes beyond the norm, though.

            You are also right when you say there is a tendency not to share these things with other people. I have never shared that story with anyone before. I would not expect anyone else to understand. Not that I think it is unique to me, but because most people will go to the logical explanation first and don’t understand the emotional impact of these experiences. The Contagion may be that emotional response. In my case, minus the Contagion element, I will have to put it down to other factors, but still a sensitivity in my nature, or maybe my beliefs, which causes that to happen.

            You’ve got me wondering now about the EDC and the questions again, TS! We were not supposed to ponder over the answers 😛

            And I love our conversations, too 🙂 There is an openness to discovery which I always enjoy <3 xox

          75. Leigh says:

            LET & TS, for me, the “tapping on the shoulder” and the “knowing” are two different things. The tapping on the shoulder is more about warning me, pointing me in the right direction or diverting me. Its seems, the tapping on the shoulder is more for my benefit. The “knowing” is more about other people. It manifests in different ways for me. Yes, it could be that I feel overwhelmed with no known reason why. That’s how I felt that day on the elevator. Other times I do know what’s going on because its happening to someone who is close to me. I had a niece once who I was able to feel her pain. Another time I felt my friend’s anxiety and dread. I don’t how it happened but I do remember thinking. “what is happening to me.” There are other times that I can just sense things from people. I always just attributed it to paying attention to the cues and the nuances but now I think its deeper than that.

            As for sharing this with people, I have told people about the tapping on the shoulder. I always tell them that I think its my Grandpa. Then they think its sweet and not that I’m crazy, lol. I try not to share that sometimes I can sense things and the emotions of other people. If I do decide to share, I say its because I pay really good attention.

            LET, you talk about it feeling like a lightning rod moment. That’s what it was like for me with workplace narc. The very first time I met him, I got this jolt. I was like, “What the heck just happened here?” 5 years later, I was having an affair with him. On that day, was my intuition trying to warn me? I can tell you this, if I ever feel that again, I’m running for the door.

          76. lickemtomorrow says:

            Leigh, I’m so glad to hear your further thoughts on this. I have to agree that the tapping on the shoulder and the knowing are two different things, maybe sometimes melded into one as you get the tap on the shoulder to pay attention which results in the knowing. Ha, if that makes sense, Leigh. But, I see your point about being given a warning, etc., and that being meant for you, as opposed to the ‘knowing’ being for someone else and bringing them and their experience to your attention. The fact you have an element of Contagion means to me that you are experiencing something deeper than just reading cues and so on. You are literally ‘catching’ others emotions, and often – going by TS’s experience – someone else’s pain. I think I don’t ‘feel’ things (in the sense of emotional pain), as much as I ‘know’ things. But the knowing brings it’s own sense of pain and distress at times, which I believe is mine.

            The sharing thing seems to be difficult for everyone, probably because a lot of people will not have experienced the same thing and will not understand. They might begin to question, and then how do you explain? It seems easier not to say anything in the first place. But, I do like the idea of your Grandpa being the angel on your shoulder <3

            Ha, to the lightning rod moment, Leigh, and the workplace narc. A part of me wanted to commisserate with you when I saw he had been let go, but then I'd also read about his atrocious behaviour towards you and knowing he was a narcissist it was really the best thing that could have happened. I mentioned here recently about someone from one of my workplaces being let go and it had a big impact on me. That was the part of me that could empathize. And now you have me wondering if it was part of your Contagion that you picked something up from that narc at work when you first met him. Is it us or is it them? That's what I'd be wondering. But from my experience they are imparting something to us and we are sensitive to picking it up. You knew him for a long time before he was able to draw you in, Leigh. I think you did well to avoid him for that long if that's the case. And lol to running for the door 😛 It might be easier sometimes in the long run!

            And I really enjoyed reading another comment of yours here as well about the way we can be invalidated through conflict. That made a lot of sense to me and I really appreciated you sharing it.

          77. Leigh says:

            LET, I absolutely believe that sometimes the tapping on the shoulder is to bring us to the point of knowing. That’s what happened with workplace narc. I just didn’t listen. I knew going in, something wasn’t right. I just didn’t care. For once, I wanted something for me. Boy did that end up biting me in the booty. For what its worth though, workplace narc needed to happen. I never would have found this blog, otherwise. He was brought into my life for a purpose. A higher being put him there so that I can learn about myself. Now that I’m on that path, he’s been removed from my life. At first, I was a mess. I cried for a week. Now, I’m good. I just needed a little time to move passed it. Him being let go was absolutely the best thing that could have happened.

            As for feeling invalidated when in conflict with the narcissist, I’ve gotten to this point that if I start to feel invalidated, I’ll bow out. I just think you can have a difference of opinion with someone and still not make them feel invalidated.

            Like what happened with the two bloggers a couple of weeks ago. Both had valid points but the one blogger wasn’t going to be happy unless she invalidated the other person’s point. There was no reason for that. Both points were valid. When things like that happen, I have to bow out.

          78. lickemtomorrow says:

            Hey Leigh, I really like your positive thinking around the workplace narc and how his removal has benefited you. Also the idea that he came into your life for a reason, as in he was the one who eventually alerted you to the whole issue of narcissism, and look where it’s led! You’re on a healing trajectory which means you are starting to take back your life <3

            And I appreciate your point again about feeling invalidated in the midst of conflict and the need to bow out. It makes sense.

          79. Leigh says:

            Thank you LET. I like to look for the silver lining. Finding this blog, all of you & Mr. Tudor has been a huge silver lining.

          80. lickemtomorrow says:

            Agreed <3

          81. Truthseeker6157 says:


            I don’t see you as nosey, not in the slightest. Nosey is just nosey. Truth seeking is done for genuine and empathic reasons, an attempt to better understand someone and usually an attempt to help and support.

            You are a genuine Truthseeker xx

          82. Leigh says:

            I just had to chuckle. I just had a thought that goes along with this conversation. I can sense when someone is being genuine when asking questions or when they are just being nosey or pretending to be interested.

            Often times I’ll give them an abbreviated answer and think in my, “mind your business.” If I think that, then I know I’m not feeling a genuine emotion from them and I won’t proceed with the conversation. I’ll hold back.

            TS, thank you for sensing that my questions were genuine. And thank you for the enlightenment. Its always wonderful to learn another piece of me.

          83. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Leigh, LET,

            Leigh, thinking about the comment about your grandfather being your guardian angel. Some people might well suggest this is the case. As LET pointed out, Bertha is an interventionist. I visualise an Angel sitting on my shoulder and LET has her just about right ha ha! She is a good time girl, a force to be reckoned with!

            Bertha, your grandfather, both visualisations do the same job. They are a nod to not believing in too many coincidences and a realisation that actually, overall and in many ways, we’ve come out of things ok, when really things could sometimes have been much worse.

            I have had mornings where I have lost my keys, the dog has got out of the gate, I’ve lost my phone and put my finger through my stockings. Then, late, I’ve passed an accident on the motorway, an accident I would have been in had I left on time. This would be attributed to Bertha for example, getting in my way and slowing me down. Another example would be taking a decision that goes against my character, or a different route for some unknown reason. An uncharacteristic choice that ends up being the right choice.

            The idea of an unknown benefactor watching over us again ties in with a belief system, religion, spirituality, whatever you want to call it. It’s comforting to think that someone has your back or that someone will help when you most need it. If it comforts, then to me, true or untrue becomes irrelevant. Providing of course that I don’t expect Bertha to rescue me when I’m drowning in a river. I need to swim to the river bank because she isn’t ever going to drive a speedboat!

            LET, your question about feeling isolated due to the way you feel these things. Yes and no. Over time I have come to accept the contagion side. I don’t require constant proof as such. Historically, my sense of various individuals has been proven right. So, bit by bit I have learned just to go with what I feel and trust my instincts. I see the Contagion aspect as offering a distinct advantage and a way of seeing the world that is often more detailed than most experience it.

            I do however keep my thoughts to myself as far as Contagion goes. I act on it, I just don’t admit that I’m doing so to others. Kayleigh could not have understood what I felt. If she had seemed quiet or thoughtful I might have asked her why then told a little of what I picked up. That there was something not right, or that the lady looked sad to me. I would never have told her all of it though. In this way, yes, it’s isolating. It’s like an Astro physicist attempting to lecture me. He / she could be the best lecturer in the history of man, but I’m never going to understand. I don’t have the base knowledge to understand. I view Contagion in a similar way. Accepting it as I’ve grown older has helped, it’s a very key part of who I am and I embrace it. If I woke up tomorrow and that part of me was gone, I’d be devastated by it so it has to be a key driver. It’s just not the strongest driver. Xx

          84. lickemtomorrow says:

            TS, enjoyed reading your comment and the further insights contained therein.

            Both you and Leigh have a sense of a very specific guardian or protective entity. Leigh, it must be so comforting to think your Grandfather still playing a part in your life <3 And I do have a belief system in place which I rely on. I think you've explained it all very well, TS, and the element of personal responsibility as well. Bertha, as much as I'm sure she'd like to, is not going to be driving a speedboat to rescue you 😛 Hopefully you won't need rescued any time soon!

            Thank you for answering my question on whether the Contagion element, or 'knowing', is isolating for you. I see how you've been able to incorporate it into your life and use it to your advantage – as in trusting your instincts and letting them guide you. And also how you've come to accept and embrace it while understanding that it would be difficult to share. In some ways it sets you apart, but that doesn't have to be to your detriment.

            I imagine it's fully part of who you are now, so I can see how it would be devastating to lose that. Which is not likely to happen with Bertha keeping watch as well 🙂

          85. Truthseeker6157 says:


            I have read your comments a few times now, they make me feel warm and content. Acceptance is such a lovely feeling, particularly when we are describing things that have less logic to them. There’s a trust element involved.

            You are right, most people would go to the logical explanation. The science behind communication and emotional processing in the brain. I have questioned myself strongly with these things in mind. I agree that might get us to the ball park area but it doesn’t explain the detail and it doesn’t explain how we actually feel when it happens and that depth of feeling really does knock you sideways sometimes. It doesn’t explain how such comparatively short snapshots have such a profound impact on us either.

            Whatever it is we feel – whether it be through an element of Contagion or whether it is as a result of having a true faith, one that you place your trust in and one that guides – it’s real. It’s very real to us and in many ways it’s humbling. We are given an insight into something more, sometimes good, sometimes heartbreakingly sad but in the end it is still ‘something more.’

            I laughed at your EDC comment. I know I know! Try giving an overthinking test phobic a questionnaire and then just sit back and enjoy the show haha! In fairness I didn’t find the questions tricky, the answer I wanted was listed for nearly all questions, there were just two that threw me. The difference between what I could do and what I would do, the difference between what I know and what I show. Two questions I toyed with, which actually for me was pretty good I think !

            I’d love to know more about how HG views Contagion, a bespoke article like the ones we have for the cadres would be so eye opening. I think HG describes it more in terms of energy, positive and negative, I’d need to think about that. I’d like to know if visualisation plays a part too, if emotions are translated into pictures, or if that is purely an overactive imagination on my part!
            Oooh Q&A haha! *rubs greedy little hands in glee*


          86. lickemtomorrow says:

            Ah, TS, I’m glad my comments are comforting, if that’s a word I can use, and acceptance of ourselves and others is a huge benefit all round. The need for logic will always exist, but when it is not apparent then acceptance is the only answer. And resting in that requires trust, I think. Which we can then go on and share with others <3

            I do feel I'm a little under the microscope 😛 but I'll often read comments again, much like HGs articles, as they also contain much wisdom and insight. I'm in awe of some of the comments I've been reading again today, and how I can identify, and how they are designed not just to vent, but to help others as well. We're benefiting in so many ways by being here xox

            I agree with you that there is no explanation for the 'something more' we experience at times, at least not a logical one, and more often than not I don't go looking for one! I'm a deep thinker, but not in that sense. Probably because I'm willing to accept the mysteries of life without having to challenge them to the nth degree to try and disprove them in any way. That is my perspective. In other words, I make allowances for the mystery. Others might decide there is no mystery and all of it can be explained. I'll let them do the footwork on that one 🙂 I don't feel I need to prove anything, and it is up to the naysayers to disprove. How's that for getting out of a lot of "word salady" arguments?! Knock yourself out. It's not on my time 😉

            "I laughed at your EDC comment. I know I know! Try giving an overthinking test phobic a questionnaire and then just sit back and enjoy the show haha!"

            Haha to this, TS 😛 I would have loved to have seen that show 😉

            But I know what you mean. The overthinking aspect of our natures can catch us out when confronted with the element of choice … as in multiple choice in this case. I would highly recommend you to watch a series called "The Good Place" if you haven't already seen it. I started watching it recently at the recommendation of one of my children and it poses some very interesting questions – about life in general, death, and ethics! One of the main characters is an Ethics Professor who finds himself in a constant dilemma where choices are concerned. It's highly entertaining, educational, and no doubt challenging in some respects as various dilemmas are brought to light. I think you might enjoy it in terms of getting on the lighter side of the overthinking side of the challenges life throws at us.

            Anyway, back to the questionnaire … I had to stop and think on a couple of the questions, too. And probably for the same reasons. Because I won't always respond the way my thought processes dictate. Two is definitely quite reasonable in terms of hesitation in the circumstances 🙂

            And I, too, would be interested to learn more about Contagion. As I said, it's not one of my schools but the rarity factor intrigues me!

            You're not the only one rubbing your 'greedy little hands', TS, as we look forward to the Q&A … we came on board around the time HG was spoiling the Tudorites with opportunities to find out more. I remember on the first one I loaded every question even before he began 😛 I had no idea how it worked. But, greedy would be a good description of my first foray into a Q&A, and I've been thirsting for another one since. Not sure what I'll ask yet, but I'm a 'pantser', not a 'planner' in that sense <3 xox

          87. Truthseeker6157 says:


            Sorry for the delay in replying. I intended to have a little look at that show you recommended first, I haven’t got to it yet and didn’t want to delay further x.

            I’ve thought a lot about what you have said about just accepting and not necessarily having to seek proof for the intuitive side. Pre narc I rarely questioned my intuition. I honestly think it has helped me sidestep ensnarements too. The online narc led me to overthink and to question my judgement. You know how it goes, we try to place or explain events and behaviours based on our own world view. We look for explanations without realising that the narc’s world view is entirely different. Getting him wrong rocked my world. I had been tricked, the fail safe failed. If you really rely on that failsafe, it’s difficult to fully trust it again moving forward. Now, I will still follow my intuition, I still believe it is strong 9 times out of 10, but I’m forced to recognise an addiction now, which negates the one thing I have relied on.

            It doesn’t entirely negate. If I respond quickly then it still would work. The longer it takes me to rule out though, the more the questioning will kick in. The harder it will become to trust my first instinct and the more likely it will be that I back track and get drawn in. I think really, I have to accept that in some cases I will get things wrong. A few people might be ruled out that shouldn’t be. Most of the time the intuition will be right. I have been issued with the logic to support the intuition. I have been taught signs and indicators to look out for and these need to have equal weighting. Technically over time, we should be stronger, two strings to the bow. Online, is a weak spot. A reliance on logic with no intuitive support. I believe it’s how I was caught, and it’s how I could be caught again.

            Non narc related things, taps on the shoulder and ‘knowing’ remains something that should just be accepted as you say. People who care do accept. I have phoned my parents before now and said things like, “Today is an odd day. Something doesn’t feel right. If you’re going out can you just be careful with your driving?” Mum has accepted and said, “ I will love. Don’t worry I’ll tell dad.” Acceptance. It’s a lovely thing to give and receive. If people love you, they should accept all of you. Good bad, strange bits all meshed into one. We do that. We see the bad bits and accept them as part of the package. Speaking non narc here. It’s only fair that the right people do the same for us.

            I will look up your recommendation, thank you, it sounds very me haha! I’m engrossed in the Handmaids Tale just now. I read the book years ago and it haunted me then. The tv series is doing the same. One for discussion if you get chance to watch! Xx

          88. lickemtomorrow says:

            No apology necessary, TS xox

            But I’m glad to see your response and happy to reply <3

            I see that element of overthinking has come in recently, as opposed to always being a factor, due to the narc and your entanglement with him. He has literally 'thrown you for a six', as my most recent narc did to me. And both of us, I think, are inclined to rely on our instincts quite heavily. We are intuitive thinkers and not inclined to give ourselves away easily. That would be part of my perspective on it also. I don't give myself away easily. I am very guarded in many senses, and it was the first time for me in a very long time I'd let my guard down. The result for me was devastating. Which I think, in some ways, it was for you, too, TS. We not only lose trust in others, we lose trust in ourselves as well. The breach of our defences leaves us feeling vulnerable, and so we question how we allowed that to happen. And we must keep questioning until we find our equilibrium again. That can take a very long time.

            How did they breach our sensitivities? I know mine caught me in a vulnerable moment emotionally, and utilized that as a way of getting a foot in the door. Of course, neither you nor I realized we had an addiction as empaths at the time. That creates a huge opening for abuse. But, in spite of those things, something tells us that our intuitive natures should have known better. And because they didn't, we need to go over the ground of how that happened and how we were conned. If for no other reason than to make sure it never happens again. Let the overthinking begin!

            I think you make an important point about the narcs worldview. It's one we've both become very familiar with after spending time here now. It doesn't necessarily make it any easier to come to terms with, but it does give us their perspective which can lead us down the path of "it wasn't personal" no matter how painful the experience was for us. How could something so painful not be personal? I've done a lot of questioning and 'overthinking' on that one. I'm still not there yet.

            And getting it wrong rocked my world, too, TS. I've also, in some ways, been negated on the one thing I have relied on. I could see/sense narcs all around me, but I couldn't sense him. Why? That makes it worse. I knew I was sensitive to their game. What went wrong? Definitely provides an overthinking moment for me.

            We've definitely added a load of armour to our arsenal after being here, and there's still a chance we may reject non-narcs out of an abundance of caution while occasionally allowing an odd narc in under the wire. Life, in that sense, is a bit of a crapshoot, but we'll be far better equipped now to deal with that aspect of it. We also have to be forgiving of ourselves, and make some allowances for mistakes. Being human is a reality, even if we want to reach for the ideal 🙂

            I take HGs warning about online interactions very seriously. The internet is a haven for these predators. Eyes wide shut is a perfect description of how we walk into the online narcissist's den, or fly into their web. Where before we know it they are spinning their silken thread all around us to bind us to them. Somehow we've blindly flown into their creation – illusion – and only the very fortunate escape. No one escapes unscathed. And it's the scathing reality we're left to contend with – our warning systems let us down.

            I like the story you shared of calling your mum with a warning <3 It's wonderful your family accepts your intuition as part of who you are and as a mean of keeping you all safe. It must be hugely empowering, and please don't be too hard on yourself around the fact your intuition let you down on that one occasion. You are an open hearted, loving empath who aims very much to be there for others, especially in their time of need. Your posts here on the blog are more than ample evidence of that. That someone took advantage of that is not your fault. Maybe let that thought sink in for a while, and I will do the same, TS xox

            The Handmaid's Tale was also recommended to me by my eldest daughter. I never read the book, never heard of it before the TV series. I did watch a couple of episodes and had some thoughts around it. I'll have to search my memory now for what I concluded 😛 The series I mentioned is really for some light hearted viewing, and I don't necessarily agree with all the conclusions it draws … ha! Just goes to show, the 'overthinking' in that sense never ends 😉 I had thought to watch the series which you said elsewhere impacted you deeply – Hannibal. I know I watched one episode after you mentioned it. I'll let you know if I do x

          89. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Hey Leigh,

            Sorry I’m a little late in replying. I Kel you in my inbox so I could come back!

            I think you described that really well. A tap on the shoulder is different to that feeling of just knowing. The shoulder tap feels like it comes from someone else, the knowing feels like it comes from within. One can lead to the other I think, maybe with full Contagion this link is stronger, for me I think they are largely Kel separate.

            I love the fact you see workplace narc as leading to something positive. I have thought similar. This last year has been a roller coaster but I have really enjoyed my awakening about narcissism. I am careful to deny the narc credit though, a weak spot that held me back in recovery. The narc did what narcs do. I did the search, HG shared the knowledge, this place provided the support. One thing I didn’t expect though was to find so many lovely people gathered in one place. People I really appreciate, who I really want the very best for in all aspects. People I feel I can turn to, who I listen to because they actually get it. They get me. HG in his way, the empaths in theirs. It’s this place that makes me accept the process driven by the narc. It isn’t down to the narc himself. Credit where credit is due, I give him no credit.

            The fact we say that “if it wasn’t for the narc, I wouldn’t have gained all of what followed” I think just shows us that we are truly feeling better. We are back to that characteristic positivity, or on our way back. You found the blog Leigh, you invested time in the learning, you honestly confided, you took the support and used it to heal yourself. That’s all you. No one else. xx

          90. Leigh says:

            Thank you TS. Workplace narc might have been how I got here but I chose to stay and learn. I’m so glad I did.

          91. BC30 says:

            @TS, Leigh I have to reply here so you see it. Don’t know how I missed this exciting convo! Questions at the bottom.

            1. Contagion is what the average person would describe as an empath—a person who feels another’s emotion. I have an insignificant minority element after Standard and Super. I’ve only found one commentator who is over 50% Contagion.

            2. Places, but mostly homes, carry energy that I do not like at all. I went on a weekend away with an ex-boyfriend who surprised me with all the planning and the bed & breakfast home was massive and very, very old. The kind of house that is so old there are doors that lead nowhere. Anyhow, I hated every moment in that house. There had obviously been births and deaths in that house, but it was more than that.

            If I am not in a location that is infected with energy, I have to be with the person to feel Contagion. If you’re crying, I’m crying. I will hold you and dry your tears, but hate every moment of it, it’s not resentment, it just pains me.

            However, maybe because I have no Co-D or because I have all cadres, I am able to squirrel away most of my Contagion emotion. The downside is that due to my Geyser, it erupts at the most inopportune times. Everything comes flooding out, and I am spent. It can be alarming to others and take a day or two of recovery.

            3. I do not think I have a “sixth-sense”, but there are coincidences. I mentioned before that déjà vu frightens me because we are not supposed to know the future.

            4. Regarding you comment on consulting with HG:“I actually am not sure what I’d pick up from him and how long I’d have to carry it around with me afterwards.” HG has a wonderful sense of humor, and it’s usually at the expense of the lower narcissist we are discussing. There’s nothing like hearing a genuine laugh in real time.

            5. How long do you usually carry the contagious emotions? With regard to how long you carry them, does the way you encounter them matter—in person, from a place, an inexplicable sense/energy? How do you release the contagious emotions? Do you seek to comfort others in pain? How does doing so make you feel?

          92. Leigh says:

            BC30, I agree with you that contagion is how the average person describes an empath. Thats how I viewed an empath.

            I’m not fond of comforting people either. It makes me feel uneasy. I want to help and fix but I don’t like feeling the emotions.

            I’m geyser also, so in the moment when Im feeling the other person’s emotion, I erupt also. With my niece, I started to cry and with my friend, I was screaming with her. It was crazy.

            I definitely have a “knowing”. I like to call it a “spidey sense”. I’m a Marvel fan. I know when someone isn’t being honest or telling me the whole story. I also can tell when someone isn’t really interested in what I have to say. In those cases, I’ll give an abbreviated answer.

            I get a tap on the shoulder, quite often. It just happened again yesterday. My cat goes to the window when he wants to come in. Something told me to check the window. Sure enough, he was there.

            As for carrying it, I don’t. Maybe because I’m only 10% contagion but as soon as I remove myself from the situation, I don’t feel it anymore. I may still think about it but the feeling or emotion doesn’t stay with me.

          93. BC30 says:

            I don’t carry emotion that is from one-on-one encounters because I feel it and it is out. What I carry are emotions that I cannot deal with in the moment, usually because it is not an appropriate time to do so. It’s secondary trauma.

          94. Leigh says:

            I don’t think that’s ever happened to me but I’m only 10% Contagion. It could be that if I’m not approximate to you, I don’t feel the emotion.

          95. BC30 says:

            This is not what I do for a living, just an illustrative example:

            Working as a detective, viewing autopsy report photos of infant victims and interviewing family of the deceased, a narcissist is unbothered.

            I think a Contagion empath will directly “feel” the emotion of the grieving family in the moment, but not necessarily have “secondary trauma,” which is trauma created from listening to first hand trauma. I think that is what you and TS6157 can do, feel it in the moment, but let it go and not have secondary trauma.

            I have both. The direct feelings pass, but I imagine my secondary trauma as a little pouch full of marbles. When there is one too many, the bag bursts.

            Silly isn’t it? I’ve got a little hobbit pouch of worries and troubles.

          96. Leigh says:

            In that scenario, I can see me carrying it too. Another example is a nurse on a pediatric cancer unit. If I was a nurse, I can definitely see me carrying and holding onto the emotions of the parents in those situations.

          97. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Hey BC30 x

            You make some really good points. How much of what I experience equates to Contagion? It is only my second school. How much is just normal? How much is part of being an empath? Honestly, I don’t know. When something is normal for you, you don’t really know that it’s not normal haha! I think Contagion and martyr are what we know least about in terms of cadres.

            The houses. Without a shadow of doubt. It isn’t to do with age of the house or location. Technically old houses have had more opportunity to have a history, but occasionally a newer house is wrong too. The house I did buy in Nottingham was built in 1802. It was surrounded by fields at the end of a bridle path ( secluded country lane). I returned to it off flights, alone, pitch black and there was never a sense of anything other than home.
            Once actually, but that wasn’t the house, that was attached to me.

            Deja vu. Very very occasionally. Nothing that really sticks out as beyond the norm.

            Emotions. I get a sense of a person through text or here on the blog, but it’s vague and not to be relied upon. It’s more my interpretation I think. Everyone on the blog for example, everyone has a picture in my head. When I read the comments the picture forms. A lot of people do that I think, its likely imagination. They won’t look like their picture in real life. But it’s a consistent mental picture that’s attached to each person.

            Interestingly, Duchessbea, her recent comments didn’t carry her picture. I read her and there was nothing there in my mind. The apology comment to Asp and myself, carried her picture. Which prompted my comment to HG that what she had said about her sister was correct. Her picture was attached to that comment. It’s not text analysis, phrasing, at least not consciously, it’s just a picture that arrives as I read. Imagination probably.

            Voice, is stronger than text in terms of emotion and what I pick up. People communicate a lot of emotion in their voice so it’s like my heart will go out to someone talking. I’ll feel their emotion whilst that conversation lasts. I’ll feel it still for a short time afterwards. It depends on the person and the emotion. It depends if I’ve fully locked on to them.

            In person, you ache I ache, it’s very very clear and it can get mixed up a bit with my own emotion. Depends how I’m feeling myself. How clear my mind is. I can deflect a bit in person. Consciously block. I’ll block anger. Someone else’s anger won’t effect me. I visualise and pull a glass dome over and around myself, sounds nuts I know. Similar with fear. I feel that someone is afraid, (it feels bitter) but I don’t take it in. Works for me. I certainly never feel physical pain. I haven’t encountered darkness. Hopefully my dome works against that too.

            There’s an image on the blog of a girl in a long dress floating in a bubble. That resonated but it isn’t the same. I carry someone else’s emotions for varying lengths of time. A week sometimes, there or thereabouts. Background though, behind my own. I can’t consciously get rid of them. They just subside gradually. Sadness lasts longest. Elation shortest.


          98. Leigh says:

            TS, isn’t there another blogger that’s been having an issue with you and Asp. Now all of sudden Duchessbea has an issue with the two of you also. My spidey sense is telling me that there is something more going on here.

          99. Truthseeker6157 says:


            Something just dawned on me, how I can describe taking in someone else’s emotions and them sitting behind my own. Have you ever had a really vivid dream? I had one about my partner having an affair once. I woke up and the feeling of betrayal was still there, anger, upset. Those feelings stayed in the background all day. I knew it was a dream, so the emotions weren’t exactly real. We went about our day, everything normal but in the background, I felt anger betrayal and upset. It’s a bit like that.

            Your question about comforting people. I don’t seek to comfort necessarily. People tend to seek me for comfort. I’m not that tactile either, I don’t hug, pat or say, “There there.”I calm mostly, let them drain down the emotion. If emotions are energy and energy doesn’t get destroyed just transferred, then maybe they transfer some to me. Energy/ fuel, close in concept. I feel drained mostly though. If I’m comforting someone I think drained is the best description of how I feel myself.

          100. Leigh says:

            I’m so glad I’m not alone here. I cant do the hugs and pats on the back either. I’m a fixer. Tell me your problem and I will help you fix it. Maybe the Contagion is just to help me see if it’s serious or not. If I don’t think you’re serious, I won’t waste my time.

            As for feeling drained, my husband and mother most certainly drain me. Even my best friend on occasion. Normally after helping someone who really needs, I feel replenished. I guess thats the savior in me.

          101. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Hey Leigh,

            I know what you are referring to x. I don’t think the two things are related. In the first case, I have disconnected. Line crossed. Non negotiable. Nothing to do with classification, just personal preference. The second case I find tougher.

          102. Leigh says:

            I just find it interesting that they both happened so close together. I feel like there’s a piece missing.

          103. Truthseeker6157 says:


            The secondary trauma. It is different.

            If I carry emotions it’s around a week at most. Usually less. I do think about, worry for, feel sad for people after that though. But these emotions of worry or sadness for them are my emotions, my worry etc. When I carry someone else’s emotions they do not belong to me. It’s more like a cold. I’m infected with a cold, the cold subsides, I’m back to me again but I remember how rubbish I felt with the cold.

            Your bag of marbles isn’t silly. It’s just a caring side to your nature. You don’t just worry for you. You worry for others. That’s evident on the blog. Xx

          104. Truthseeker6157 says:


            Yes, they were close together. The first confused me completely as to why it began. The second was caused by me. I could have disregarded or just questioned the comment itself. I chose not to. It was a strong reaction in me and that maybe is an indicator in itself.

            Empaths here, myself included, have to learn to defend themselves I think. Defending is sometimes closing it down. If others step in too soon, that negates the opportunity. I find some threads uncomfortable, and I won’t accept certain behaviours without speaking up, but people need the opportunity to react their own way.

            HG has said that in the event of being in conflict with the narcissist, say your piece once, so you know you have said it, then essentially, close it down. I fully subscribe to that. It’s a skill that is directly transferable to non narc interactions too. Control ourselves, not the other person. One attempt, then draw all the emotions in. Narcissists do it naturally, they outmanoeuvre in part because they can think clearly. Our emotions get in the way. Pull them back in and we can think clearly too.

          105. Leigh says:

            I agree that your strong reaction is an indicator in itself. If we’re uncomfortable and feel something is off, there’s usually a reason.

            If I feel a thread makes me feel uncomfortable, I will read it but I won’t comment. If what happened to you, had happened to me I’d have to walk away and calm myself down. Then I can come back an articulate how I felt. I know you are low in anger, I’m not. Its not my highest, but its up there. When I’m having a face to face conversation and the gaslighting, circular conversations and deflecting starts to happen, it makes my head feel like its going to explode. Even more so now that I know what’s happening. Sometimes I can’t contain myself and I just have to let it all out.

            I thought you handled it perfectly. I think you helped demonstrate how to handle a situation like that too. There was no tit for tat. It was clear, concise, articulate and to the point. The geyser in me makes me very haphazard and often times I get flustered. I’m learning though.

          106. Truthseeker6157 says:


            Your situation at home must be incredibly tough in terms of holding your temper. Being locked in to a marriage is a whole different level. I think you have also defended yourself instinctively. You go to work, you keep your friends, you invest your energy into the kids. You allocate time to do things you enjoy. Those things haven’t been taken away from you. You have held on to them.

            Now you know who you are dealing with, you are withholding fuel too, like the not filling the car up with gas example. You are acting defensively. Not consciously as far as friends and kids and free time are concerned, but still, you recognise your anchors. Different situations, different empaths, different coping / defensive responses.

            I do have a flashpoint eventually. When I go though, I really go and I’m so cutting that I feel very guilty afterwards. I don’t like that feeling. I don’t like feeling so out of control either.

            I admire the Geysers because they are the inverse of me in many ways. There’s a real life to that cadre. A real ‘two fingers up, this is me’ approach which I envy in many ways. I’m quick to raise the walls. Too quick sometimes. Xx

          107. Leigh says:

            TS, sometimes it takes all of my energy not to react to him. I try to keep myself busy with work and the kids. I have to keep myself away from him as much as possible. Reading that line, “Being locked in a marriage” infuriated me. Not because you said it. I need to hear it. But because I lock myself in that marriage. Its only locked for the short term. That’s a promise I’ve made to myself.

          108. Truthseeker6157 says:


            When you have been with someone so long it can’t be easy to leave.

            Sometimes fear of the unknown can slow us down. If your kids were gone and the opportunity was there for you to go tomorrow, maybe think about how you would go about it. Find a lawyer, have a meeting, see what your situation would be financially etc. Look at house prices / rent prices / expenditure / budget, run the numbers etc. That might help to make you feel in control. You would understand exactly what the split would entail, timings, everything else.

            Being informed is always a good thing. For me, a worrier, I find it helps. Often I exaggerate problems in my mind and the reality isn’t as bad as I imagine. It’s cheaper, easier, faster etc. It’s just a thought. Planning will make it real, will give you something to look forward to that you would also know is doable. Just a thought.


          109. Leigh says:

            I’ve thought about talking to a lawyer. Just to see where and how I would begin. Everything we have is joined. We don’t even have separate credit cards.

            Maybe it’s time to take that first step. Even if its just a baby step, it’s still a step in the right direction. At least talking to a lawyer, I’ll know what I’m up against.

          110. Asp Emp says:

            Leigh, I hope you can find the right lawyer to assist you. You can always consider a consult with HG if you get stuck on the legal process. Hope it all goes well for you.

          111. Leigh says:

            Thank you Asp!

          112. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Hey Leigh,

            Exactly, having a private meeting with a lawyer will clarify exactly what you need to think about. What you might be worrying about could well be more straight forward than you think. What pension entitlement will you have etc, as regards his, not yours? Lots of these questions can be answered way in advance of you making a move.

            Your own bank account, your own bank card. Set up, ready to go. I can just imagine you looking at that bank card and grinning to yourself! It’s the start of the process of getting your independence back. Knowing that it’s real and you have a plan, and it’s a realistic plan. Just ideas, Leigh, things that I think would help me. I’m not good with fear of the unknown, the only way to combat it for me is to break things down into steps and take the small no risk steps first.

          113. Leigh says:

            He has no pension or retirement account. He hasn’t held a real job since he was a teenager. He hopes from owning one business to another where he makes very little money. He defines success by not having anyone to answer to. He doesn’t realize he has to earn a living as well. He had a large gambling win and that’s how we were able to afford the house. The plan is to give him the house and I keep all of my 401k plans & IRAs. I have two 401k’s and 2 IRA’s. When he retires he will be collecting on my social security.

            Its really the little things like you suggested. Finally having my own bank account and bank card. Yes, I will be grinning in delight for sure! Its not having a bed or couch or pots and pans. The list goes on an on. One step at a time though. If I think about it all at once, I become overwhelmed and shut down completely.

            On a different note, did you see Chihuahuamom’s comments? She had some interesting things to say about being Contagion. You should take a look. She responded to the question from Vimto.

          114. Asp Emp says:

            Leigh, reading your comment reminded me of the MR’s “situation” – his wife had given up her job without telling him. Started claiming on his National Insurance Contributions that he had worked hard for. She did not contribute to the finances, despite claiming the Family Tax Credit for years. He has no pension, just the properties (after the mortgages – he’d still be left with about 60 to 70 % worth of the ‘assets’) – I had pointed this out to him after he had told me that they were separating etc – Future Faking, keeping me in ‘ensnarement’ etc.

            “he will be collecting on my social security” – FFS. Hence the importance of finding the right lawyer that will work for you, assist you. I have never had the need to go down this ‘route’ so I do not know much about it really, in real terms.

            Anyway, it came to me as I read your earlier comment in relation to seeking a lawyer over your whole situation in this respect. I wonder if there is some kind of ‘checklist’ that you can use as a guide ie list of things to consider – bank accounts, dividing the financial responsibilities of bills etc – to effectively save on costs on spending more time with the lawyer in question. OR, will it be beneficial to seek the advise of a Financial Advisor in the first instance? Are they cheaper than a lawyer to start with? Maybe there are some charitable organisations around – for example, in the UK we have ‘Citizen’s Advice Bureau’ or ‘Money Advice Service’ – or even have a look at some websites in relation to your circumstances? I am just talking out loud.

            Have you considered HG’s assistance package ‘Divorcing the Narcissist – What To Expect’?

            I am quite confident that you may have already done some of this – I apologise in advance, if you have. It’s just that I do not like to see someone being taken advantage of and I know from experience that a lawyer can ‘drag’ a situation, in my case it was 5 years before I changed to another one who ‘reached’ a resolution within less than a year. This was employer related.

            I hope it all works out for you.

          115. Leigh says:

            In the United States, your spouse automatically collects on your Social Security benefits if married over 10 years. You actually have a choice, you can collect on your own or your spouse’s, whichever is higher.

            Thank you for your advice about finding a charitable organization. I leave near a law school and they offer free consultations to the community as part of there pro bono requirement to graduate. Thank you for reminding me of that.

            I have not done anything yet. I like the idea of a checklist. When I start to think about everything, I become overwhelmed and then I don’t want to do anything.

          116. Asp Emp says:

            Leigh, RE: first paragraph, maybe you can find out to ensure you can retain yours. There must be, surely, somewhere, a ‘loop hole’ in the system that can be navigated through. Maybe you can ask about that when you approach somewhere.

            Great, pleased to know that you have somewhere you can go. Maybe if it’s free, find out how many ‘pro bono’ you can use (ie how many students you can use) – maybe with a different ‘subject’ with each one ie social security benefits with one of the students, another ‘financial’ aspect to your situation to another student (if you can understand what I mean) – I don’t know how it works. No harm in asking all the ‘analytical’ questions before getting into it.

            Maybe have a look online first for the ‘checklist’. I don’t know if HG has one as such, maybe an audio with him? Anyway, you are making a start and that is really good 🙂

          117. Leigh says:

            No way around the Social Security benefits. It’s federal law. He’s technically entitled to half my other retirement benefits as well. Such as my 401k and IRA. However, I have some wiggle room there. I can offer him 100% of our home in exchange for me keeping 100% of my 401k and IRA.

            Another obstacle is coming up with the money for first & last month rent the security deposit to rent an apartment. There have been very few times in my life when I wished I had a real mom. This is one of them. I would have somewhere to go.

          118. Asp Emp says:

            Leigh, ah, damn RE: first paragraph. Is there a friend you can stay with for a bit – explain that you can contribute towards your share of bills for however long it can take to raise (save for) the funds you need for deposit / first month’s rent? No need to share further info RE: your finances. But would you / are you able to consider purchasing another home for yourself rather than rent? I realise you have a lot to consider and sort out. I have just ‘googled’ 401k to know what it is – I am now aware of what it means (translating USA to UK ‘financial language’ – it all adds to my learning 😉 ).

            Yeah, I know RE: a real mom. Sigh. Anyway, sounds as if you are making progress in your new life directions. Your ‘Prime Aims’. Kudos to you 🙂

          119. Leigh says:

            Asp, I was in a sad place when I wrote this response. I had to lay my senior kitty to rest on Friday. So I was feeling sad and feeling a little pessimistic. I’m feeling much better and more optimistic today.

            FICA (Federal Insurance Contributions Act) is a payroll tax deducted from everyone who works in the US. My social security benefits comes from those taxes I paid. It includes a monthly payment from the government and medical insurance. I’m not entitled to the full benefit until I’m 67 and a half. So lets say my full benefit is 2500 a month. Since my husband and I were married over 10 years, he can collect on my benefit as well. I still get my full benefit of 2500 but he can collect on it too. He’s not entitled to the full benefit though.

            401K is an employer sponsored retirement account. I have two of them. One from a previous employer and one from my current employer. I also have two different IRAs (Individual Retirement Account) which I set up myself.

            As for not being able to come up with the money for rent, I’ll borrow it from my mother if I have to. Its the least she can do.

          120. Asp Emp says:

            Leigh, sorry to hear about your loss – I understand. Alright, I get the gist now RE: finances. Still a bugger that he gets to claim on what you worked for though. RE: mother & rent ‘loan’ – I’d be cheeky & ask for part inheritance – afterall, (in UK, gifted money means less inheritance tax to pay) not sure if USA similar tax rules. Thanks for explaining it to me. 🙂

          121. Leigh says:

            Asp, I say loan but more than likely, I won’t pay her back. Again, its the least she can do.

          122. A Victor says:

            Sorry about your cat Leigh, that is hard.

          123. Leigh says:

            Oh AV, I’m still feeling it. So much of my time was consumed by her these past few months. I keep thinking about, “I have to check on kitty.” Then I remember that I don’t. 💔

          124. A Victor says:

            If you can work from MN you can come stay with me for a while! I know, for real that isn’t allowed, but I think it could be really fun!

          125. Leigh says:

            Aww! Thank you AV. I was just being a cry baby for a minute. I’ll be good. The concern isn’t the money. I have the money. Its hiding it from my husband. I need to be able to save it without him knowing it. I can’t do large amounts because he would notice that.

          126. Truthseeker6157 says:


            I see what you mean now. That’s incredibly frustrating and a stressful way to live.
            You need to become a house sitter in a great big house with a pool! A few months in Barbados would be perfect Haha!

            Yes, thank you I did see Chihuahuamum’s comment and replied late last night. There seem to be clear similarities in what we describe. Percentages probably cause it to happen more often and with longer lasting effects. Xx

          127. Leigh says:

            From your lips to God’s ears! Housesitting in Barbados for a couple of months! Sounds like perfection!

          128. JB says:

            HG, could you direct me please to any articles you have written on the Contagion Empath? It’s mentioned a lot further down this thread, and I would be interested to know more. Thanks!

          129. HG Tudor says:

            See “The Three Strands of Empathy”. More information is given in the EDC should those have that outcome.

          130. Truthseeker6157 says:


            Don’t worry, same here, I’m getting some notifications but not all. The threads are long too so I’m not spotting additions.

            Not first hand means I haven’t physically seen the cabin or the car. Although if I thought I knew the location for any of the landmarks in KHG, I might visit over the summer. Particularly given the fact I’m grounded in the UK!

            Feminine whiles I agree, it’s bred into us, nothing we can do about it. My name’s not Darwin.

            Yes the car in question is shown far left and only for a second. The car probably has one of those fancy alarms that talks when you touch the car. No writing ‘CLEAN ME’ on that car without “Step away from the vehicle. Step away from the vehicle “ ringing out. Can you imagine ? 😳

            You don’t sound crazy to me by the way. ‘Touched’ maybe, not full on crazy though.


        3. Violetta says:

          Sometimes we do need others, though: I get my rush from petting puppies and cuddling babies. So it’s not entirely from within, though the effects are beneficial to both parties.

          1. Leigh says:

            Absolutely I get it from external factors too. The hot sun on my back, the smell of a baby, the crashing waves at the ocean, a really good kiss or sometimes just sitting in silence. I just mean that we already have it, we just have to tap into it. The narcissist doesn’t have it and no matter how hard they try, they can’t tap into it.

          2. A Victor says:

            Hm, they would not get pleasure from any of those things? Pleasure from the senses is different from happy, that is true. And HG has said he doesn’t receive power from these things, and I think even that they are fairly meaningless to him unless he’s getting power somehow via them from an appliance. This is helpful.

          3. Leigh says:

            AV, Yes, they have nerve endings and that’s how they derive pleasure but its not genuine happiness. I can’t get passed the fact that almost every narcissist I know is miserable and a chronic complainer. I equate happiness with peace. Maybe, I’m wrong, I don’t know. But because I’m at peace, I feel happy & content. How can they be at peace, if they have to hurt another person to get to that peace?

          4. A Victor says:

            It does seem sad for them, from our perspective. And it certainly is sad for those they hurt. I think contentedness and peace are where I’ve settled at happiness, or joy, being. I am definitely happy not to be a habitual complainer like some narcissists I know or have known. Maybe even bigger for me is I’m happy I don’t have to function in ex machina mode non-stop just to survive. I’ll take contented any day over that and, sadly, I can understand why they envy it.

          5. Violetta says:


            Back-of-the-neck baby smell… ooohh.

          6. Leigh says:


          7. njfilly says:

            I love that puppy smell. I think it’s time I get a new puppy.

          8. JB says:

            Re. The 3 Strands of Empathy – thanks for the recommendation, HG.

        4. JB says:

          Leigh, but who decides that it’s only a genuine feeling if it’s not been caused by hurting or using someone? Maybe the concept of love is more fluid than we all think; one person’s idea of love isn’t necessarily another’s..I don’t know, just random thoughts that occurred to me while I was listening..

          For me, happiness does sometimes come from other people. I think my need for external validation is quite high. Bit like my dad, but hopefully much nicer! 😂

          1. Leigh says:

            JB, it might be a genuine feeling and they might be putting the label of happy or love on it, but its not love in it truest definition. You can’t hurt someone to make yourself feel better and call it love.

            Yes, other people can generate happiness in us just like they can also generate sadness but the feelings are already there. The narcissist doesn’t have those feelings at all.

          2. JB says:

            Leigh, I agree with you about what constitutes/doesn’t constitute love. Was just having random philosophical thoughts, wondering who decided what the criteria for genuine love would be 🙂

          3. vandenboss says:

            Did you know that envy is also external validation? I’ve heard someone say its the highest form of recognition.So when i notice envy coming my way,i reply with a big smile. ”You’re envious…thank you for the compliment.” Sometimes i even throw in a little air kiss lol. Try it out sometime,its happiness pur sang!

          4. Contagious says:

            Interesting, what is love? Does it come from others? Is love God? Why do many “ love” their children. No financial gain. Parents know that’ lol. Is it a biological chemical? We see animals act “ lovingly” to offspring. Does it matter why? What would this planet look like without love, kindness, empathy, compassion? Rats in amaze? There is already such a federation or greed that has harmed us. Despite Faith and that is hard for me to say, does not survival of the fitness need a balance to protect the whole? To me, love is the fittest. It is the survival key to myself, to others and in a tiny bit to us all.

        5. Violetta says:

          I don’t know. I felt huge relief when I finally slugged that girl who’d been bullying me for years.

          1. Leigh says:

            That was you taking your power back and I can see how good that would feel!

  12. Ciara says:

    Great interview H.G..Very articulated and well spoken.🌷

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Thank you.

  13. lickemtomorrow says:

    This was a great interview and she asked so many intelligent questions – some I never thought of and would like to have answered myself. She was a little bit concerned about the ‘sting in your tail’, HG, but appears to have come away unscathed. I think what impressed me the most was your response to her request for tips on how to become more narcissistic. You made it very clear that empaths, and normals, are not manipulators and should not seek to do so. Rather than encourage the manipulation of others you put a lid on it. Needless to say you’ve gone up another notch on the admiration scale for me <3

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Thank you.

    2. BC30 says:

      LET, fantastic observations on the Magnet empath! I didn’t understand it until I read HG’s lists and saw the Magnet celebrities listed, then it all clicked.

  14. December Infinity says:

    I am listening to this interview right now. Awesome 8)

  15. Truthseeker6157 says:

    This was interesting. I couldn’t warm to this interviewer at all to begin with. I thought she was going to talk too much, stick rigidly to pre prepared questions and disrupt the flow. I thought HG did a good job of keeping the interview on track. Perhaps she was just a little nervous.

    In fact, she did imply wariness of HG on several occasions. I’m not sure if that was game play or genuine. If it was genuine I find that interesting in itself. I wonder if there are readers on the blog that don’t comment because of HG’s diagnosis. People have mentioned initial reluctance to comment due to not wanting to appear stupid and also shame in some cases. I can understand both. Fear of HG as an individual I don’t understand. Fair play, the title Narcissistic Psychopath sounds scary but to my knowledge he can’t reach through screens or transport himself down a phone line.

    From the perspective of this interview it smacked a little of the interviewer being unsure if the regular audience would agree with the decision to interview HG. An exercise in hedging her bets perhaps. Call me cynical, but there was something about that I didn’t like at all.

    HG was charming and knowledgeable as we would expect. I didn’t feel a gelling as I have in other interviews though. The videos referred to I had in mind too as the questions were asked, so I’m pleased my own knowledge appears to be growing and sticking. I did see how HG took the lead in the interview. I found that interesting also. Subtle but very effective.

    It was nice to see the recognition in the interviewer’s personal story about her mother at the funeral. The ‘Wow, he’s good, he’s really good’ moment. Yes, he is, we know, that’s why we listen to him and take his advice.

    Nicely done HG.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Thank you and your observations are valid.

    2. Leigh says:

      TS6157, I thought there was something off with the interviewer also. I thought her questions were a little odd but I agree that Mr. Tudor steered the interview back to where it belonged. Her question at the end on how to advice women to act like a narcissist seemed like a huge red flag to me. Why would an empath choose to live that way?

      As for fear of Mr. Tudor, I’ll give you my story. Hopefully he posts it. I want to preface this by saying that I am extremely grateful to his knowledge and him providing that knowledge to us. I don’t know where I would be without it. With that said, I had an interaction with him as my self, not as my pseudonym. There was a discount going on and I figured I would jump on the chance to buy a couple of things. I only had a limited amount of money to spend. Well, I put the wrong code in and I didn’t get the discount and I was unable to buy everything I wanted. When I reached out to him, he wasn’t very understanding. I know it was my fault for putting in the wrong code. At that moment though, I needed understanding and compassion and I didn’t get it because he is a narcissist and isn’t capable of either. I sat in the parking lot of the store where I had just bought the gift card and cried. I’m not a cry baby. I’m really not. But in that moment I felt inadequate and there is always that fear that if I interact with Mr. Tudor that I will feel that way again. Its interesting because then I became pissed off. I was pissed off that once again, the universe showed me that the only person I can count on, is myself.

      1. Truthseeker6157 says:

        Hey Leigh,

        Thank you for sharing that with me. It offers a different perspective and I’m aware I can be a little brash at times. I should be more mindful of the fact that empaths arrive here with self esteem shattered and after enduring years of abuse from familial or romantic narcissists. I acknowledge that and apologise if my original comment sounded dismissive. Others have different perspectives to mine.

        I’ve done it too. The wrong code thing. I actually forgot to put the code in, ha ha! I didn’t email though. I was more in the camp of “awww TS, what did you do that for?!” I didn’t think to email as I saw it as my error. If it wasn’t my error, then I’d email and say “HG, I bought this and can’t get it to work.” Or,” I put the code in, and it charged me full price.” I have reported a faulty file before now and it was fixed immediately and very courteously via email.

        It illustrates the black and white thinking of the narcissist to an extent. A fault at my end or a fault at your end, no in between. That said, if I dropped my new phone out of the box, I can’t see my phone provider issuing me with a new one either, so I get both sides. You reached out because you really needed some leeway, some support when you were at a low ebb, it was the straw that broke the camel’s back at a time when you could have done without the loss. I see your side too. There’s something about car parks and crying. I’m not a crier either but if I do cry, there’s a high chance it’ll be in a car park. I can imagine how you felt, frustration bubbling over, I really feel for you there Leigh.

        As far as interacting with HG goes, I would say, just go for it. Ask your questions, make your suggestions. He can only not answer or say no. More likely though, you would enjoy the interaction and have your question answered to boot ! HG is open to ideas and suggestions too. He might not always agree, but in my experience, he takes them onboard and appreciates the input.

        I realise this is a mindset thing too. When people have been put down or ignored, that’s not as easy as it perhaps sounds. The blog is a safe learning environment in all kinds of respects, self esteem and confidence included.

        I just felt a little game play with the Pink Pill lady. I didn’t see her wariness as genuine. I can understand yours, that’s genuine and stems more from past experience perhaps than anything else. I didn’t get the same feeling from her.

        Thank you for your comment Leigh. It has made me think and check myself xx.

        1. Leigh says:

          TS, you weren’t brash or dismissive. I know you’re not like that. You’re extremely understanding. That’s why I offered my point of view. I knew you would understand.

          I agree, I didn’t think she was genuine either. She did seem a little self absorbed. I’m going to listen again. I like to listen a couple of times to make sure I really soak it in. I also agree that Mr. Tudor did a good job of steering the interview in the right direction.

          As for reaching out about the wrong discount code, I thought of it like a department store. Often times if you forget your coupon, they have one behind the counter you can use. I figured I’d give it a shot.

          1. Truthseeker6157 says:


            That’s a good point about the department stores. You have made me think about my arrival in the US. I remember thinking how friendly everyone was. Stores, restaurants etc. Conversely, when I came back to the UK, I was shocked by how miserable people seemed ha ha! We aren’t actually miserable, we just take a while to warm up! I speak for the normal and empath group of course.

            People in stores here would be more like, ‘No coupon, no chance’. For the most part that is. There are always some happy exceptions to be had. I blame lack of sunshine !

        2. BC30 says:

          So weird that I can’t find the original Reply button, anyhow regarding Contatgion…

          Yes, I am a soother. I’m uncomfortable the entire time, but I was raised by empaths. (My father reached out today to say he was too “distraught” to finish the EDC because his very elderly neighbor is dying, so he took it upon himself to help ready the neighbor’s house for guests.) I’m compelled to DO something even it’s just holding the person.

          It’s interesting what you say about images. I only recently found out some people cannot visualize and some people do not have internal monologues. I don’t have images of the commentators here, but I hear your voices or rather, what I imagine you sound like. It’s great that you can block! I cannot. Perhaps because I am Standard/Super and you are Super/Contagion—somehow that would make sense.

          I think you refer to Hoover Time – Sphere One (Lesser, Mid Range and Greater Narcissist. That is my favorite article artwork, my absolute favorite. That gown happens to be very similar to my first wedding gown, but I had a cathedral length train that dropped from the shoulders.

          1. Leigh says:

            Oh, I definitely visualize. I imagine you to be like Sofia Vergara or Jennifer Lopez.

            I visualize TS with glasses and long, light brown, wavy hair that she wears up a lot.

            Am I close?

          2. HG Tudor says:

            This isn’t Guess Who.

          3. Leigh says:


          4. BC30 says:

            Haha!! I’m flattered. I wish, Sofia is gorgeous!! Oof and her husband– lucky, lucky woman she is.

          5. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Leigh, this tickled me. Can I just ask, How come BC30 gets Sofia Vergara and I get long hair and glasses?!

            (You are right about the long hair.)

          6. Leigh says:

            I couldn’t think of an actress for you. I have a very specific picture in my head. Almost like the picture of Dr. O but with light brown wavy hair.

          7. Leigh says:

            I found the perfect match in my head, Emily Blunt.

          8. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Hey BC30,

            I know, the reply button is way way up, better resetting here.
            Yes, that’s the picture. I forgot about the guy shouting outside the bubble, that’s funny. Anger, and she’s safe in her bubble. I can feel if someone is angry I just don’t carry anger around with me afterwards, I don’t let it in.

            Anger is an odd one for me. It’s my weakest narcissistic trait. I do feel anger, I would describe it more as irritation / frustration. I don’t show anger though. It’s almost a stubbornness that says I am determined not to show you have irritated me. It’s a conscious thing, go for it, knock yourself out but you’re getting nothing. It kind of make sense that anger would be the emotion I block and refuse to carry away. We are weird fish sometimes aren’t we?

            Yes, your sound is my image. Do people not have internal monologues? They don’t know what their own thought voice is? I find that strange. Everyone must have that surely? How do you think or make a decision without an inner thought voice? Haha! Great, now we hear voices!

            A soother. I wonder if the doing part is the Geyser. You erupt with your emotion and the touch or the doing is a means of releasing? Energy again. You spend more of the energy you take in perhaps. If HG describes emotional content as ‘fuel’. Fuel really is a form of energy. It fuels him to move forwards. Maybe emotions are energy in some ways.
            Exciting your dad is taking the EDC. What do you think he will come out as?

          9. BC30 says:

            Crazy right?! Some people don’t have internal monologues. Most of the ones I know say it drive them crazy to be “talking” to themselves all the time.

            We Empaths express our specific combinations differently, and truth be told, for the best understanding one must consider the TD at the same time. For example, most DEs who have shared here have high(er) narcissistic traits. I think most of my doing comes from Super/Savior, but tempered by my other elements. I think my dad is 100% Geyser 😆 JK, maybe not that high, but some and maybe Martyr. It’s anyone’s guess!

            I’d never thought of fuel that way, but you’re right on that!

          10. Leigh says:

            Oh my gosh! I talk to myself all the time! And sometimes out loud, lol!

          11. BC30 says:

            I wish I was curvier! Not to toot my own horn, but I have gorgeous hair. It’s a lot of upkeep, but I like the frequent compliments from complete strangers. Oh the Vanity! This is in keeping with my Trait Detector.

            Meanwhile, I just got an email from the tattoo artist I’ve been dying to have do a pinup tattoo on me! 💖😃 I’ve been bumped up to the wait list, which means she is interested in my proposal. I wonder if anyone has gotten an HG related tattoo. I thought someone had shared that they had. 🤔

          12. Leigh says:

            I looked at my trait detector this morning and I had forgotten that vanity was high. LOL! I’m not surprised, I love compliments. I have great hair too. I get a lot of compliments and its a pain in the booty to upkeep. Shoes and clothes are important too. I have to look presentable, lol!

            An HG related tattoo? What are you thinking?

          13. BC30 says:

            No surprise about vanity, you and I are very similar. I’m not getting an HG inspired tattoo. I was asking because I thought someone had done so.

          14. A Victor says:

            My vanity is second highest, both it and pride being in danger of corruption. I feel like the three of us are quite similar in some ways but I do see similarities with TS with the Savior a lot too.

          15. Leigh says:

            My second highest is Infidelity behind Pride. That’s no surprise to me. Every single time my husband pisses me off, my pride flares up and I immediately want to cheat. Its my way of getting back to him.

          16. A Victor says:

            A tiny HG on the bow of a tiny boat, with a couple of mild waves, inside left wrist. Or ankle. Lol! My kids would literally fall over if I did that!

          17. A Victor says:

            I do too! In my head and I read to myself out loud, when I’m thinking, not reading a book, haha. How did I miss this thread? It is awesome!!

          18. A Victor says:

            I’m a DE with moderately low N traits. But I think when I was actively in my DE behaviors, my emotional empathy was absolutely shattered.

          19. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Awww Leigh,

            I’m sorry x I was only teasing. I saw opportunity for fun and took it.

            Light brown long wavy hair ( if I left it, it gets paddle brush dried and stays straight). I wear it up to the gym or to task, Otherwise it’s down. I would feel naked if I cut it short. So you are right to lock on to hair. Xx

          20. Leigh says:

            You can’t tease an overthinker, lol! It really did get me thinking. We have these preconceived notions and stereotypes in our head. I knew you were a runner so I went to an athletic, slender build with your hair up. The glasses came from the truthseeker in you. Your love of learning. Here’s where the stereotype kicks in. Just because you love to learn doesn’t mean you where glasses, lol. That’s just where our brain goes.

            As for BC30, she’s bold and outgoing. I also know she’s Hispanic. Again, this is where the stereotype kicks in. Hispanic women are curvy. I know that’s not true, but that’s where my brain automatically goes. In my defense though, I’m a curvy Hispanic woman too.

            There really is alot of truth to unconscious bias.

          21. Truthseeker6157 says:


            “You can’t tease an over thinker.” True that!

            Unconscious bias. Meh, maybe. Depends on the situation and whose unconscious we are talking about. Any bias was taken in the way it was intended. Just for fun. Xx

            PS I wear glasses when I’m using my iPad 😉

          22. Truthseeker6157 says:


            The tattoo. Errr, now that might have been down to me. I commented about having a Dark Cupid style tattoo. ( I was joking) Can’t remember what I said exactly. MB squealed in delight and threw glitter. A few other commenters also joined in. I had to rain on the parade and tell them I was joking. Very sad. Very sad. Haha!

          23. BC30 says:

            Oh, ok. Haha. I’d bet that someone on Earth has an HG tattoo.

          24. BC30 says:

            Coincidence you say Gregory, I once joined a Co-ed basketball team because I had a crush on a Gregory and I HATE sports. Anyhow, Gregory is the name I associate with the G in HG.

          25. Truthseeker6157 says:


            Someone on earth probably does have an HG tattoo.

            Someone with a boyfriend called Henry Gregory probably!

  16. WhoCares says:

    An enjoyable interview. It was interesting how you handled certain subjects in this one.

  17. Bubbles says:

    Dear Mr Tudor,
    Packed full of informative and knowledge, as always
    Most interesting to hear the interviewer’s questions raised from her book regarding racial/ religious relationships, always learning something new !
    Her mother’s display in church was a great example of narcissism and your dissection was most explicit in its breakdown
    Always leaving them wanting more …. you certainly did !
    Thank you, I very much enjoyed your continued eloquence 😊
    Luv Bubbles xx 😘

  18. MsCynthia says:

    The interview was interesting and well conducted. I appreciate that the lady who conducted it is familiar with your work. It puts her head and shoulders above what we see and hear on mainstream media today. The breakdown of Cadre and Class of narcissists is helpful to hear repeatedly, since I’m not yet familiar with them. Well done.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Thank you.

  19. Theresa Brezovski says:


    1. HG Tudor says:

      Potentially, yes.

  20. A Victor says:

    Glad for the clarification regarding APD and sociopath vs psychopath.

    “every woman’s dream but no soul” she hit that on the head!

    The racial aspect presented is as informative as it is horrifying. I had no idea.

    There is that excellent definition of love again. How do we know if a narcissist is faking this, or can’t they?

    The religious aspect applies to people of both genders and likely all ethnicities, in my experience. There is that forgiveness piece as well, now I understand better.

    Looking back my ex didn’t show love to the kids, that had never dawned on me. He was just neutral.

    Wow, the words were/are nothing! A year! I would never have thought that long! Good to know.

    It was a relief that you did not give tips to attract people like narcissists, that would be confusing.

    Excellent interview. There was fuel but mixed with a healthy respect for you are.

    I think the number of questions I have just dropped by a third! Thank you for putting this here HG!

    1. Witch says:

      @A Victor
      It’s very true that within the west African diaspora there is a lot negativity regarding darker complexions and 4c hair which leads to abuse.
      This is not only perpetrated by men but by women too, towards their children.
      South Asian people report similar experiences of being told by family members that they are too dark and no one will marry them and being encouraged to bleach their skin.
      Even when you look at Asian bridal magazines they only really feature the lightest Asian women.
      This is slowly changing but beauty standards within the diaspora are still pervasively toxic

      1. A Victor says:

        Witch, thank you for explaining this, it makes me so sad. Something I find interesting is that I remember meeting two men during my life, one in DC, one near my home town, and thinking they had the most beautiful coloring I’d ever seen, skin so dark to be almost black. They stood out at the time, and still do in my memory, because of their coloring. Both had immigrated from Africa, though different parts, and they had beautiful accents also. I was saddened to think their coloring would be diluted likely, depending on the mother chosen. What you speak to is really sad, there is room for everyone and should be acceptance as well.

        On the flip side, the number of people with light eyes is dropping, and since I believe they are also beautiful, I am sad to see that happening. I suppose at some point it may be that humans are all quite similar looking. I have wondered what the fight will become about then though I am likely to be well gone before it gets to that point. I really just wish there was no fight.

    2. BC30 says:

      Yes, let’s get matching tattoos. Haha. 🙃 They’d be too small to fit HG inside the boat, dime-sized. Maybe one of those childlike half circles with a stick flag on it to symbolize crossing the Emotional Sea. My left wrist has space, my right does not. 🤪

  21. narcfreeandhealing says:

    This was a great interview HG 😊

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Thank you.

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