The Early Morning Encounter

145 thoughts on “The Early Morning Encounter

  1. NarcAngel says:

    In order to help fill the void/empty nest would you consider entering the workforce now? Even if part-time or volunteering? You would form different kinds of relationships (co-workers, clients etc) that may help fill the void and could possibly lead to the personal relationship you seek.

    1. A Victor says:

      Hi NA,
      I actually do work, for a couple of years now, almost. It is a job I do from home, full-time, and I really love it! I would’ve made a good career woman I believe. But, my co-workers are a couple of 20 year old guys and the married owner of the company, I’d have no interest even if he was not married. Some of our customers have been interesting but the best part is that this job has allowed me the opportunity to do this learning, about narcissism. I am considering a part time job perhaps, at some point, in addition, for the reasons you have listed. But, that won’t be for a while, there are a few things I need to accomplish first. Thank you for your comment, I will consider it more thoroughly going forward, where can I plug in and possibly meet some of this need.

    2. Asp Emp says:

      NA, brilliant comment, good & wise words. Volunteering can be very beneficial – especially if it’s with a cause that one believes in & can ‘relate’ to. Volunteering is a good start for those who have been out of the work ‘loop’ for a long period of time – and normally, there is no ‘commitment’ ie terms & conditions of contracts etc – just a Volunteer Agreement (that’s in UK).

      1. NarcAngel says:

        Thank you Asp Emp. I read a lot of comments where people express wanting to meet someone to share their time with and fear that it might not happen. I believe its good to just get out and be active again and in doing so might find the void can be filled by many other things/people. Less of a feeling that everyone else has a special someone (it’s often over imagined ) and you are left out. The more things you do and people you encounter the more likelihood of that happening naturally might occur. Of course you take with you what you have learned here.

        1. A Victor says:

          NA, I agree with this as well, there is an element of just do it involved. And, as I’ve been here, I’ve been working also on building friendships with people in real life for just that purpose. It is a quandary for me, I don’t like to be out and about a lot, never have, but there is really no other way to do certain things. One good thing is that I feel less all the time a certain fear that I had for a long time during and after my marriage. The learning here is helping that to dissipate and making it easier to once again enter the land of the living. I hope that at some point I will not feel so much the sense of deprivation of having a special someone. Thinking about this is one of the times that I can become quite angry at the narcissists from my past, and the current one upstairs. So I try not to think about it, who needs that. It has been thrust in front of me with the current situation more than previously but, thought control, I’m sticking with that. I don’t know if people here can tell but I can tend to be a bit of a mover and shaker, don’t let the grass grow under my feet etc. So when something isn’t right, I want to change it and will take the steps to do so. This is a situation that I am currently unable to change, that is also part of my frustration with it. The day will come, as BC30 said recently, I can “hear” HG saying “Patience” also.

  2. Violetta says:

    Not a merch request, but I’d like to see “Death and the Mid-Rangers.” Oh, the thrill of watching them try to Word Salad their way out of it and assure Death that it is For His Own Good!

  3. Bubbles says:

    Dear Mr Tudor,
    Was that story true ?
    Just asking for my jogging empath lovely 🤣
    Luv Bubbles xx 😘

  4. December Infinity says:

    I just went shopping and got some merch! I ordered a mug, a t-shirt and a face mask. I am more empowered, authentic and organic now that I can show bananas, chickens plus of course, once you know you go.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      HG approves.

  5. Truthseeker6157 says:

    I ordered a bananas of empowerment water bottle for the gym. My trainer is a smidge on the woke side. Did that on purpose haha!

    Do you take requests / ideas for future merch HG?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Good for you. I am amenable to suggestions.

      1. Truthseeker6157 says:

        I love the new merch. A few suggestions for additions.

        Sun’s out, guns out! The black fitted tank top. Versatile, will be worn for gym / exercise / lounge wear or for casual. Suggest more options here. Particularly cadre logos like the Saviour logo you have for the dye cut sticker ( Cloak Optional). The magnet logo without the background photo ( Fatal Attraction).

        I think as more take the EDC they will enjoy identifying with their school and cadre. The logos are great in that distressed text you have. Really like those. A logo for each cadre. Schools are tougher I think. Contagion lends itself less to branding, mind you we could play spot the narc with the SE option!

        I think cadre merch within all categories will be well received by readers and listeners. You have accurately assessed our key qualities and I think many of us are becoming quite proud of who and what we are. Empathic logo on the front, House of Tudor on the back would work well.

        I like the water bottles. I’d like an option with a pull up cap that you can flip or click open rather than a screw cap. A sports water bottle if you like.

        Strangely, an inflatable beach ball might work well with chicken of authenticity and bananas of empowerment. I have seen that work well with branding.

        Personally, with all of the excellent free material you provide, I think it’s a great fun way to identify and show appreciation for the work you put in, plus, it helps spread the message to more people and I think we are all about that.

        Thank you for your consideration.

      2. NarcAngel says:

        No Contact shelf paper.

        T shirts:
        Hoovers suck.
        Accepts no crumbs.
        Narc Knowledge Vault (H.G Tudorized)

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Thank you.

          1. Feather says:

            Hello HG
            After having my no contact and child access arrangements backed up by court orders. I’d be quite content to wear a plain black hoodie with just the words ‘property of HG Tudor’ on it during child handover. I also think it would be a conversation starter with with people

          2. HG Tudor says:

            Thank you for your suggestion. Of course this ownership is implicit, but I shall consider this request for an explicit declaration!

          3. A Victor says:

            Feather, great idea! I could see it selling out in 30 seconds flat. Especially if he did it in pink too!

      3. Asp Emp says:

        Hello HG, thank you for opening the floor to suggestions …. I love ‘The Knowledge Vault’ image on the products – looks absolutely fab 🙂

        Ok, how about some knee length shorts? Baseball style caps?

        Maybe scarves for winter? (for example, the material used for the joggers can be doubled sided & have the print on both sides?).

        Business cards – with KTN / narcsite / contact details – that we can issue to people we have conversations about narcissism? Possibly a pack of 10 or so? Or even leaflets? Or maybe just the same info on the stickers?

        HG, thank you for the opportunity to put forward some of my suggestions.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Thank you.

          1. Asp Emp says:

            HG, a couple more ideas……

            A red triangle with words “Empowered Empath” (this one came to me just from reading ‘If You Go Into The Woods’ article).

            “Tudored Today, Tutored Tomorrow” – I think the wording is great – sums it up really.

            Thank you, HG.

  6. lickemtomorrow says:

    This feels like a triangulation.

    Is there some reason we are being triangulated with an early morning jogger in your current whereabouts?

    Or is it because I haven’t bought any merchandise yet, so maybe I am feeling guilty 😛

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You wear guilt, like shackles on your feet, as the talented ML Gore once wrote.

      1. lickemtomorrow says:

        ML Gore was right, as well as talented.

        I am shackled by my sense of unworthiness in this instance.

        And I should have bought some merch by now!

    2. A Victor says:

      LET, haha, I actually thought the same! But, good for the learning, and after, HG is a narcissist, it’s what they do! 🙂

      1. A Victor says:

        All*, after all* ugh.

      2. lickemtomorrow says:

        Correct. I thought it would be good for my learning to say it out loud … HG, you are triangulating me/us. Neither confirmed nor denied, felt by me either way, it’s important to recognize.

        On the empath side there could be an empath thinking “I wonder if that was me … did I pass and nod at some guy while I was out on my jog this morning wearing my ‘Chicken of Authenticity’ T-shirt and taking a swig out of my “Bananas of Empowerment” water bottle? While another empath thinks “Oh shit! My t-shirt hasn’t arrived yet and that could have been me out jogging. Who’s the lucky Tudorite who was spotted by Tudor himself as they passed him by and he almost said hi?” The first will be on the lookout for random men on her morning jogs from now and for ever and ever, amen (seduction, anyone?). The second will hope that she gets as lucky as the first. Always living in hope.

        Right now, I have no chance and no hope 😛 At least until I make a purchase. Then again, do I always want to be wondering if the man with the wry smile who passes me by when I am wearing or carrying them could be our illustrious saviour? I’ll have to think about that <3

        1. A Victor says:

          LET, that’s perfect! And I have trip to the UK planned once mine arrives!

          HG, see what you’ve caused with your triangulating?! 😂

          1. lickemtomorrow says:

            AV, I can see you running the length and breadth of the U.K. and never taking off your t-shirt 😛 Could mean some extra purchases are in the offing … triangulation works!

          2. A Victor says:

            Haha, yes, I will be traversing every last inch, all times of the day and night. I will bring spare tees, I will want to smell good should I come across a man smiling wryly at that which is written across my bouncing bosom. Thank you for that very practical suggestion LET!

          3. lickemtomorrow says:

            LOL, AV, HG can chalk a few sales up to me then if he so wishes 🙂 The bouncing bosom has me laughing, too 😛 The Chicken of Authenticity will be getting a good workout!

          4. A Victor says:

            Hahaha, yes, you get some credit! But that chicken will not if I take Truthseeker’s advice and enroll the assistance of a convertible! And I actually like that idea…:)

          5. A Victor says:

            …that chicken will not get it’s exercise if I…

            I can’t seem to proofread any more!

        2. Truthseeker6157 says:


          You made me giggle. I thought similar but saw the story of the runner as magical thinking. The story brought out a laugh and I thought it was a fun way to introduce the merch.

          If I passed another runner, male, fit, good looking (as HG suggests he is) and he smiled wryly, then I’d smile wryly back. That’s me all over. A few minutes later if I thought, “ Hang on a minute, that guy looks a bit how I imagine HG to look” I’d stop a bit further on, tie my shoelaces (side ways on because I’m a classy laydee) and wait for him to run past. I’d rather have him in front of than behind me.

          Or, also a possibility, I’d wait until he was along side, say “Good morning HG” and assuming the voice was baritone (regardless of accent) brass neck it, run and work my way through a whole list of questions until I was no longer able to keep up, question and breathe at the same time.

          The fact that I even thought about that shows the video did it’s job!

          1. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Ha ha, that reminds me of a Withnail scene.

            “I ain’t got no pheasants, I ain’t got no birds, no more than you have.”
            “Of course you have. You’re the poacher!”

          2. A Victor says:

            Hahaha, love it!!! You’d ask questions?! I would not have thought of that option.

          3. Truthseeker6157 says:


            Oh yes. Lots and lots of questions!

            1. Where’s your chicken of authenticity shirt then?
            2. Do you run here often?
            3. Guess who?

            I’ll be stopping now.

          4. A Victor says:

            I have a list of questions already on my phone!! Now to decide, would it be cheaper and more fun to jog around the UK in a Tudor tee until I see the wry smile or buy audio consults…? Getting my calculator out as I write this…

          5. lickemtomorrow says:

            LOL, TS, I can see you chasing down every guy with a wry smile, and definitely better to have him in front of you than behind … keep that classy laydee coming, btw.

            Good old magical thinking … we can all become victim to it and the narcissist loves to play on our vulnerabilities, too. How much would any of us like to meet HG? He could rake in the cash with a meet and greet, but please don’t make me jog to meet you 😛 I prefer walking at a leisurely pace and saving the breathlessness for other encounters 😉

            Seriously, though, it’s interesting to interpret this notion and how we experience it. I’m giving it the thumbs up for that reason alone. It’s educational.

          6. Truthseeker6157 says:


            Don’t worry I’m not that fast, I’m more stubborn than anything else. No talent, I just keep going!

            No doubt on the meet and greet. Although I like the mystery of HG too. The online game that I play, has no images, no private chat, team chat only. Lots of the guys have suggested an additional chat app so we can put faces to names, have private conversations etc. I reject it every time. It’s impossible to live up to the imagination. I stay mysterious, they follow my battle plans and happily do as I ask. I’m probably Christie Turlington to one and Tina Turner to another. Whatever, I can be whoever you want me to be! Better to leave them to their imaginations.

            I suspect that other than concealing the real life roles he has, HG worked this out very early doors. Mystery and anonymity work and empaths have vivid imaginations! Xx

          7. Asp Emp says:

            TS, RE: “I suspect that other than concealing the real life roles he has, HG worked this out very early doors” – I agree with you. By keeping his other roles in his life private (from this blog), HG is more able to keep others protected, including himself.

          8. lickemtomorrow says:

            A point well made, AspEmp, and one which I included in my response to TS … hope you don’t mind I borrowed your thought there xox

          9. Asp Emp says:

            Hello LET, of course I do not mind, at all x

          10. lickemtomorrow says:

            Thank you, AspEmp <3 Your magnanimity is much appreciated xox

          11. Asp Emp says:

            Ah, LET, thank you x

          12. lickemtomorrow says:

            Interesting food for thought around your gaming scenario, TS. It is impossible to live up to the imagination and as empaths we are definitely inclined to keep feeding it. Mystery will always be a drawcard for some people, and the anonymity around it means that judgments can be withheld while you focus on the tasks at hand. This could be another upside to the mystery of HG. The focus is on narcissism per se, and not on who he is or all the details surrounding his personal life. I had not considered that before, but he can be different things to different people and they fit him into their own perspectives in terms of what is meaningful to them. It’s a way to cover a lot of bases and reach a lot of people. We make him fit us and our scenarios in some ways. I wonder if he does the same with us? There is no doubt HG is capable of imagining things. I wonder how he imagines his various appliances? He can also make us whoever he wants us to be, much like children fit their toys to their imaginary play. And shelve some of them temporarily while they play with others. I’m off on another trajectory, comparing HGs world to a doll house and us being the dolls within it.

            “I can be whoever you want me to be” … haha, indeed. And the truth is we probably enjoy the opportunity to be whoever we want to be without the shackles of actually being known. In some ways it keeps everyone safe. Which is a point I think someone else has made in this conversation. I like the idea that you reject going any deeper which can create an inordinate amount of difficulty as people begin to make judgments and some, as we know, like to create division. Keeping it up front and all above board is a sweet deal from my perspective xox

          13. A Victor says:

            LET, “I wonder how he imagines his various appliances?” – I thought it would be toaster, fridge, washer, dryer etc, maybe in a multitude of colors. I hope I’m pink. And some of these would be very difficult to get on and off a shelf, so maybe miniatures?

          14. lickemtomorrow says:

            Haha, AV, we would come in many different sizes, shapes, and colours 😛 I see you like pink, any preference for the your use? You’ve gone to the practical, which HG also does to help us understand his perspective. And often in a very amusing fashion.

            For some reason I was thinking more of dolls this time and children’s play. We are big, and if we think of a dolls house, they are little. They have no control, we have all the control. We can move them around and make them do what we want when we want. They don’t talk back. We put words in their mouths. We decide which room they will go into or come out of, who is in the house, and basically direct the lives of dolls as we see fit.

            I’m reminded, also, of an online game called “The Sims”. Can’t remember much about it except in some ways it might fit the scenario of an online form of doll’s house. The bottom line being you get to control what is happening. And to all intents and purposes, that is the narcissist’s ultimate aim.

          15. A Victor says:

            Does a cell phone count as an appliance? Probably not…hm…a mini freezer because I’m not very big but I am cool? OOOHhhh, an iron, because I’m hot?!?!? Lol!!! JK, I have no idea what I’d be!! I have actually considered this in the past and can’t think of anything appropriate. Btw, I’m kind of cool but not really hot. And, for this thread, I am very happy for the anonymity!! Haha.

            Yes, the doll aspect. I think dolls are too close to humans and they don’t really serve a practical purpose, pros for us but not for HG. I do like your analogy though concerning the way they are moved about and spoken for etc. That seems very fitting. But, if HG called us dolls, that would not only sound funny and inappropriate, but also, we’d all want be the ethnically appropriate Malibu Barbie and we’d get offended if it turned out he thought of us as a crying/peeing baby doll. Can you even imagine the triangulation?? So, not sure that one quite makes it, though it does go a bit of distance.

            I used to play the Sims, for a short time, until the sex got too crazy. Had to give it up at that point. HG might really like it though, you have a point.

            LET, thank you, I had a lot of fun reading your comment and writing this one.

          16. lickemtomorrow says:

            Haha, AV, never thought of a cell phone, but I would consider it an appliance, and a very useful one 🙂 You have some of the best ideas. You and HG would never be parted, at least until the lastest model Apple IPhone became available!

            The dolls also made me think of HGs infamous scrapbook, so perhaps that’s an analogy best left behind 😛

            You played the Sims? I don’t think I even got to the sexual part, or at least what little introduction I had to it never quite led me there. Probably just as well by the sounds of things!

            Glad you had fun, AV. Me, too. I’m amazed at the way my memory is being jogged here around different random and distant events. I’m letting those thoughts flow as I think they are helping to release memories which tie in with my narcissistic abuse and untangle how that impacted me. Thanks for sharing more of your thoughts x

          17. A Victor says:

            LET, yes, in a hand, before the eyes, snuggled up to some body part in a pocket, can’t go wrong with a cell phone. Until you’re turned off and put in a drawer…Or…every two years, when a new one is required…and, I doubt he’d want it in pink!

            I forgot about the scrapbook, that makes me so sad. And honestly, that one made me a bit angry also.

            I only played because I had teens and tweens who were playing it and I always wanted to see what was going on in their lives. They thought it was funny when I joined them, and made for some good conversations about lots of things. Did you know on that game the characters could set other people on fire? It was pretty twisted, probably developed by a narc. My kids now would never let their kids play it!

            I find the thought flowing to be quite productive sometimes. When it turns sour, not frequently, I have to reorganize it. But it is sometimes when I get those precious lightbulb moments and I need many more of those yet. Thank you as well, the fun here helps the process, very much, for me at least.

          18. lickemtomorrow says:

            Haha, AV, I don’t think he’d want it in pink either 😛 I think HGs more of a black and white kinda’ guy, and I’m betting on black for the phone.

            The scrapbook totally weirded me out and is basically incomprehensible to me. Probably because I’m not a narcissist and would find it impossible to view people in the same way, which is as instruments for my own pleasure. So, I put it down as disturbing, and hard to align with the HG we know here. Which is where I have a need to compartmentalize sometimes in order to get what I need out of HGs work. At the same time I appreciate his honesty, and exposure of some of the darkest elements of narcissism. It’s basically taking the good with the bad, and accepting there is an HG I would also not like to know, as much as I enjoy “knowing the narcissist”.

            Same when it came to the Sims, though I didn’t get overly involved and had pretty strict control over all things technological back then as far as the kids were concerned. No doubt, they pulled the wool over my eyes at different times, but I’m hoping they didn’t achieve levels in the game which allowed them to access anything raunchy :O It looked a seemingly innocuous game on the surface, but it was my kids explaining it to me, so who knows what they left out! OMG, I don’t think I knew they could set people on fire … that is a seriously twisted game. How on earth were they able to market it to children? There’s not just narcs in the development, there’s narcs at every level propping this stuff up. SMH.

            Gonna go question my kids on Sims the first opportunity I get!

          19. A Victor says:

            LET, I am coming back to this one. I wanted to give it my full attention with regard to the scrapbook and the HG we “know”. Incomprehensible, that is a good word. I felt that way about Spanked too, it still makes me nauseous. What I go back to that helps me is that, while I see the good in everyone, I also am a true believer that we are all capable of the same degradation, if we are so inclined to go there. I believe this because I have seen it happen in others and also myself. Thankfully, I caught myself, or was caught, before I did things that would’ve left bigger consequences, but I know what I was capable of had life events not changed my course. This doesn’t mean anything except that, for me, I can separate the bad from the good, likely cognitive dissonance has a hand in this, and not really “judge”. I don’t know if that makes sense, but it makes me able to accept, even enjoy, the “good” that a person has to offer, and overlook the bad. With regard to HG specifically, I feel very safe doing this for many reasons and if I were to ever get romantical feelings about him, the knowledge of some of these things would snap me out of it in a hurry. I do enjoy flirting with him though and even had a small crush going at one point, until I realized he’s young enough to be my…………much younger brother…… 🙂

            Good luck with the Sims conversation!

          20. lickemtomorrow says:

            AV, you should check out the conversation on “Why am I drawn to toxic logic?” I think you will see my thoughts expressed there are similar to your own. We are potentially moving into the field of morality and it is essentially a ‘minefield’. Because it forces us to make judgements. “There but for the grace of God go I” is something to be kept in mind. And in HGs case I believe it is purely grace which has led me here. In that sense, I cannot judge him harshly, and in many ways it is not my place to do that either. I greatly appreciate the insight he is able to give us, the mysteries he is able to unlock for us, and the guiding light he has become to so many. I’m much better at this stage pulling the plank out of my own eye. Which might give me better narc vision!

            I don’t think we know how old HG is, but no matter. The crushes are real, no matter what age we are either. I would expect the Ultra Narcissist to have that effect … he has been honing his skills and his charm for quite a while now (through at least 30 IPPSs) and it’s not hard to fall under his spell. The main thing is you realize that, which it seems you do, AV. Just keep a much younger brother in mind 😉

            OMG, I had the SIMS conversation with one of them last night and was reassured you could not see the couple having sex and babies dropped in on hot air balloons, and yes, you could put a Sims character in a house and then set the house on fire … WHAT???!!! My eldest daughter told me her friends still play the game to this day.

          21. A Victor says:

            LET, yes, I agree with your morality paragraph.

            We don’t know his age but we know close enough. But, there was the firefighter that was 19 years my junior, given what we know, mathematically HG can’t be that much younger, so maybe I can allow myself that luxury…

            Your Sims conversation sounds funny! No, you don’t SEE the sex, haha, it was funny, we always laughed at it. But it was weird! And I’d forgotten about the babies! I thought you could set people directly on fire, and drown them too, but I haven’t played it in probably 15 years.

            Thank you for sharing your thoughts, I always enjoy reading them!

          22. lickemtomorrow says:

            Ooohh, a firefighter you say? 19 years younger! Woah, AV, you’re ahead in the field for now xox Of course, HG knows if you had to make a choice you would pick him 😉

          23. Truthseeker6157 says:


            You’re not thinking about this. You need to hire a nice convertible whilst you’re here. Then you can drive around with the roof down, merch in the boot and still get to look out for wry smiling runners whilst consulting with HG on hands free.

          24. A Victor says:

            Oh dear, now you’re encouraging me?!

            Still…many good ideas in your comment…

            Back to the calculator…hehehe…

          25. A Victor says:

            TS, every time I think of you brass-necking it, I giggle uncontrollably!

            I would love a meet and greet, on one hand, but on the other…the anonymity is nice also. And likely I wouldn’t be able to get to a m&g anyway, unless it was a tour which included the US. And if that were the case, I likely couldn’t afford it.

          26. lickemtomorrow says:

            We will have to keep reveling in the mystery, AV. Somehow I don’t think a meet and greet will ever be on the cards, though part of me would like to know before I die who HG actually is so I don’t have to go to my grave not knowing …

          27. A Victor says:

            Same LET! Maybe we could arrange an audio consult for a time yet to be determined and call him as we’re on our way out?? Maybe he’d tell us then??

          28. lickemtomorrow says:

            Ha, AV, I like your thinking 🙂 At least in terms of getting answers. My guess would be “highly unlikely”, but I’ll add audio consult to my bucket list since I haven’t got around to doing that yet 😉

          29. A Victor says:

            Oh, yes, do one! They are amazing, the learning that happens. Make sure to record it, you will find so much more as you listen to it again. Plus, HG is really fun to talk with.

          30. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Well if you don’t ask you don’t get!

          31. A Victor says:

            That is a good point.

            HG, could we please have meet and greets across the globe for a price we could all afford?

            TS, think it’ll work? 🙂

          32. Truthseeker6157 says:


            Yes and quite honestly if I was sharing that amount of personal information I’d keep myself anonymous too.

          33. Asp Emp says:

            Exactly, TS.

          34. Truthseeker6157 says:


            I totally agree with your point about being who you want to be without the shackles of being known. I have had this discussion very openly with the other players. The link to wanting to know what HG is like in real life is quite natural I think and not simply based on the empath narcissist scenario. The same curiosity exists with me and the guys and probably for similar reasons. When people interact and share details of their lives, they want to visualise who they are speaking to and what their lives are like. Often it’s as simple as just that.

            I describe my online persona as a stronger version of me. I’m still me, but more sarcastic, definitely more controlling, more cutting when necessary. I also demonstrate part of my true personality too though. I still care, still try to help. I imagine it works in a similar way with HG. He’s still him, just a version of him.

            In terms of how we are seen, there will be a big difference between the two scenarios. I see the guys as individual people, I know what goes on in their lives, who is starting a new job, or getting divorced etc. I care. I lost a player recently. He had a heart attack. Had surgery, then his account fell silent. His account remains in the team, just sitting there, the guys know not to remove it. So I feel attachment. HG won’t for obvious reasons. I think he likely views us as a whole. I don’t think he will really pick us out too much as individual stories / lives. If he does, bare bones in terms of where we are up to with recovery, if our ET is high etc. I don’t think he visualises who we are, what we look like, what our lives are like etc as is the case within my team. I think we are more a mass of voices. We are on the radar, or we are off the radar as is the case with all narcissists. With him or against him, under control or not.

            So there are likely similarities in some respects, but huge glaring differences in others.

            As an aside, I provided the guys with the bones of the scenario in Dark Cupid Pinned the other night. I haven’t laughed so hard in ages. A mix of male bravado, utter confusion and complete dumbassery!

          35. lickemtomorrow says:

            TS, I enjoyed reading more about your online interactions in another sphere and how you perceive them. What interested me was your comment about your “true personality”. You seem to be saying that aspects of your online persona are not aspects of your true self, but I would tend to see them as being part of who you are just existing in a different context. That, to me, would give an ability to embrace them. Just a thought. As we can all have the tendency to see ‘good’ and ‘bad’ in those differing aspects of ourselves. They all serve a purpose, and much of the purpose they serve depends on the context. In the gaming context you may be allowing your more narcissistic traits to shine. I know there are contexts in my life where I do the same. I embrace those moments much as I do the moments of deep empathy I share with others. It’s all of a one as far as I’m concerned.

            HG, I feel, allows his Cognitive Empathy to shine at times. We know he has no emotional empathy, but he has the ability to tap into an element of cognitive empathy which gives him the ability to reach us. All for his own purposes, of course, but as part of his construct it exists. So that is the version of HG we see here.

            I am sorry to hear about the player you lost, and the attachment for us as empaths is real. Even in an online scenario. We will feel it when someone goes missing, especially if we have created a bond with them. And the interactions, regardless of the fact they are online, will do that. I’m just wondering if it’s possible he’s still recovering from his operation, but maybe you know that is not the case. An account suddenly falling silent can mean so many things. But, when you are used to someone being around that silence can be deafening. I can relate to your not wanting to remove the account, so I’m glad others have understood your feelings around that. It is a reminder that he has been part of your community and his presence there has been significant.

            You’ve probably given a good perspective on how HG views us … I imagine much the same way as a King views his subjects and not overly involved with any of them for the most part, unless he seeks to use them to further his purpose. So, it’s more about what we can add to him, as opposed to wondering how our lives are going and all that might entail. Agreed, it likely relates to recovery, ET, etc., which is the purpose of the site, alongside the notions of for or against, under control or not. That is purely accepting things from the narcissistic perspective which is what we are all here to learn more about.

            And I haven’t access “Pinned” yet, so I hope I’ve acquired that one for a read. Your comment on it makes it sound all the more intriguing! I believe you have those guys wrapped around your little finger, TS xox

          36. Truthseeker6157 says:


            In a word. No. Hahahaha!

          37. A Victor says:


          38. Truthseeker6157 says:


            Do you know what? I never thought about that! TY ( my gaming persona) has to be me, because I write her. I suppose I see her attachment to players, remembering what’s going on with each of them etc, her empathic side, as me. I don’t recognise her tougher side in quite the same way. It’s not that I’m making excuses for it, I just didn’t associate myself with it as much. You are right though. That side still has to be me. Thinking about it, the sharper side comes out more in defence of the regular players. A new player arrives for example, starts throwing their weight around, criticising weaker members of the team, that’s when you’ll see TY fly! Ha ha. In fact there’ll be a comment from a regular like, “ Oh dear, here we go.” Or, “I’ll give it five seconds, any advances on five?” Ha ha they know me quite well.

            Thank you, I was attached to that player. Ex rally car driver, track instructor. He advised me about cars. Oldish guy, he got me. Would chortle away when I got bossy. Sounds silly, some of them have been with me a long time. If it was just the game, I’d have given up ages ago. It’s the people, the crazy conversations, talking to players all over the world from all kinds of backgrounds and cultures, that keeps me invested. Little wonder I barely sleep! Maybe I need a safe outlet for my narcissistic traits. Give them a little workout. You have me thinking now!

            As for them being wrapped around my little finger, would you expect anything less?! 😜 xx

          39. lickemtomorrow says:

            Sounds like your Saviour side comes out in the gaming world, TS, which is still part of your empathic traits 🙂 Although, I can’t remember if that is one of your Cadres now or not! But recognizing our narcissistic traits as being part of us is also what it’s all about. They do serve a purpose and there are times they will come to the fore … no doubt, competition is one of them. Personally, I don’t see any harm in that and consider it quite useful. And your gaming friends obviously take delight in seeing those traits come to the fore. It’s an element of leadership which they seem to appreciate.

            And it may well be an outlet, but one you obviously enjoy and it sounds like a fascinating world. And no. I wouldn’t expect anything less 😉 xox

          40. Truthseeker6157 says:


            Yes, you remembered correctly, Saviour is my lead cadre. Yes, I’m usually to be found close to the perceived underdog! I think the guys do like to see it light up, though they would likely describe it more as a mother bear looking after her group! I enjoy the range of backgrounds, personalities, age mix, cultures, even careers represented. It started as a form of escapism. Now it’s more like an online pub with late closing!

          41. Asp Emp says:

            TS…. “it’s more like an online pub with late closing”…… laughing.

    3. JB says:

      In my opinion, it’s simply to encourage you to make a purchase! I have to confess though, I am never comfortable advertising my views to others publicly (and especially on my body). Would prefer to play my cards closer to my chest! Xx

      1. HG Tudor says:

        No shit sherlock.

        1. JB says:

          Ha ha, no flies on us lot! 😂

      2. lickemtomorrow says:

        What are the chances I overthought this one?

        1. A Victor says:

          But it was fun!!

          1. lickemtomorrow says:


        2. JB says:

          LET, if you’re anything like me, quite likely! Overthinking is my middle name! 🙂

          By the way, my comment about the perceived triangulation being nothing more sinister than for the purposes of encouraging us to make a purchase had been intended as a reply to your question, but I just saw that I had forgotten to put your name, doh!

          Thinking about it, this ‘triangulation’ of sorts is fairly common as an advertising method, isn’t it? (‘Look at so and so, they’re living the dream, being the proud owner of x or y, don’t you wish you were like them..?’)

          1. A Victor says:

            JB, HG has talk about advertising triangulating us, Coke vs Pepsi etc. I had completely forgotten about that, thank you.

          2. lickemtomorrow says:

            “Overthinking is my middle name” – Gawd, that makes two of us, JB <3 I took it as a reply to my question, which was intended to back up your thoughts 🙂 And as an advertising msg it is common indeed. The triangulating aspect is often hidden, so I'm giving myself brownie points for hitting on that, even if it wasn't HGs intention … albeit that will come naturally to him in many ways as a narcissist. At least if my experience is anything to go by. And my experience is probably what led me to landing on that aspect of the "advertising campaign". It's fascinating to see what various people take out of it and the conclusions we come to … some will rush to buy, others – like me – will "overthink" the purposes of the sales pitch 😛 No wonder my narcs had me at sixes and sevens … I couldn't let anything go or just be, even if it should have been relatively straight forward. Put it down to lingering cognitive dissonance on my part. I'm always looking for the set up. It's been ingrained into me.

          3. A Victor says:

            I think overthinking is an empath thing.

          4. lickemtomorrow says:

            Narcissists definitely rely on it as they create that cognitive dissonance within us.

            For me the overthinking relates much more to past experience as opposed to my empathic nature. As the child of a narcissist it was forced upon me as I struggled to make sense of my experience. The dissonance carried on throughout my adult relationships involving narcissists. So nothing could just be what it was. Because, more often than not with a narcissist, nothing is actually what it is.

            Everything is a form of manipulation. That is my learned experience.

            So, far from being part of my empathic nature, although my empathic nature caused me to run foul of it, it is a manufactured dissonance due to the manipulations of the narcissist. I would not overthink in an involvement with a normal or another empath. Because they are not trying to manipulate me. Overthinking, to me, is the second guessing nature the narcissist creates in us. Where we can never be certain of anything. And nothing is as it seems.

          5. A Victor says:

            LET, yes! They rely on it and even cause it, and then they accuse us of overthinking!!! It’s really twisted!

            I relate to your entire comment. Only I did overthink even with non-narcissists, because it was how I learned to think, second guessing myself, and I think it is built into my personal makeup as well. I have had to reprogram that aspect of myself, I can still easily fall into it but not in most situations anymore. This is another thing I had begun a few years ago, being here has sped up the process and improved the results. I am encouraged by this. It sounds like you are getting a handle on it as well, that is also encouraging!

          6. lickemtomorrow says:

            Exactly! to your first comment, AV. Very succinct.

            Definitely a habit we acquire, and it can trickle into other relationships thanks to the narcissist. We become less trusting of others and more on guard. Even the good guys can’t get a look in at times when we feel the need to test every element of the relationship. Reprogramming is good way to describe what needs to happen as we begin to build trust again. Positive, non-narc, relationships will help with that. Glad to hear that being here has sped up the process 🙂 And improved the results <3 You are encouraging me, and I will need to begin breaking out of my cocoon soon if I want to see the same kind of improvement. But the paranoia of the narcissist also becomes the paranoia of the empath making it quite a mountain to climb. Getting together with the right people will be a big step in the right direction x And there are lots of them here!

          7. Truthseeker6157 says:


            I really feel for you there. I think you are exactly right in where your overthinking comes from. I still re read, self edit, re read and check before I post my comment. Extremely rare for me to comment and go. I know that’s the influence of the online narcissist. Everything was twisted. Sometimes we could laugh and joke and everything was fluid, finishing each other’s sentences as if we were hooked in completely to each other’s thoughts. Other times an innocent statement would be twisted beyond all recognition, attempt to clarify and I was just trying to get out of it because I was this, I was that, or I was the other.

            The residual effect of those conversations is my overthinking, self editing and, probably my wordiness. I’m wordy because I am trying to explain, to ensure that I’m interpreted correctly and that I don’t inadvertently hurt, insult, or provoke a defensive reaction to something that I never meant to imply. To have lived this day to day from childhood, through to romantic relationships in adulthood as you have, well, I can’t fully imagine the impact that must have had.

            It makes me bubble over in here when people listen and react positively to things I write. Particularly when my opinion differs from theirs perhaps, or when I haven’t been clear. The comments are read and interpreted as coming from a good place and I really notice and appreciate the empaths here for doing that. Funnily enough HG does it too. In the context of ET. He’ll disregard the defensiveness because he sees what it is and where it’s coming from. He disregards and presses on with his message. Probably the only time where we benefit from a narcissist establishing control.

            Little by little the damage gets undone. So much thought and honesty goes into your comments. They are always from a genuinely understanding and kind place. Your overthinking is gratefully received here LET as I’m sure it is elsewhere. Xx

          8. lickemtomorrow says:

            TS, my first thought, “You’re a sweetheart <3" Thank you so much for those kind words.

            Second thought, so glad my overthinking has been gratefully received xox

            I seriously felt it in my gut when I listened to HGs video and my reactionary response seems to have led to a conversation where I am as much the beneficiary as anyone else 🙂 You are always thoughtful in your comments, and I understand your explanation around the effect your online relationship had on you. My relationship was the same. I never knew what would trigger him, he always had a way of putting it back on me, and then I would suffer the silent treatment if I didn't get it right in terms of my response. Before our first significant break he spoke of feeling like he was walking on eggshells … lol. I still didn't see that it was me walking on eggshells as he had me twisted like a pretzel, just like you said.

            There is a sense for me that I have been 'on guard' my whole life. It is what it is. I really thought I could relax into that last narc's arms finally. It's a rude awakening whether it's your first time round or your 100th because you still don't know what you have been dealing with. And it messes you up. So that you do become wary, waiting for the axe to fall. There is a sense of trepidation about dealing with others, which you comment seems to suggest. You might never have been like that before you met the narc. They have a lingering effect, but I trust it will wear off for you eventually, TS. In fact, it sounds like it already is 🙂

            And the understanding that exists here makes a big difference in terms of allowing us to express ourselves and untangle some of our tongue-tiedness, clarify our thoughts, and hopefully help to bear fruit for ourselves and others. HG is very pro-active in allowing that to happen, and also maintaining a more dispassionate position in dealing with it all. He brings the logic to bear.

            I appreciate your sharing again today, so thank you for being so open and also caring of others. We've been on a good bit of this journey together and I'm sure both of us can see how far we've come since we arrived. Onward and upward, TS xox

          9. A Victor says:

            LET, “There is a sense for me that I have been ‘on guard’ my whole life.” I can relate to this. I think it is why I appreciate my alone time so much, it is when I can let my guard down. Though even then, there is an element of awareness quite often that I cannot shake. The times I am able to shake it are amazing, I cherish them.

            On another thread recently you said you put off dating while your children were growing up. I did this also, for 10 years. This is the reason I now feel urgency sometimes to proceed. But, I also walked straight into a mess last summer, the first time out. So the urgency must be put on pause until I get my learning and ET to a point of safety to try again. I do find it frustrating at times but the blog helps a lot.

            @TS, I don’t check and recheck, though if I have time I try to read through before sending, to catch errors and autocorrects. But as a result I often see the errors blazing away on the blog for all to see, haha. Usually they are just grammatical, sentence structure etc. Sometimes I haven’t expressed a thought the way I would like but that’s easy to clarify if need be. Anyway, I am telling you this because I think it is my slightly more boisterous cadre that makes this possible for me, and also gives me the ability to chose to overthink or not. I finally decided one day that, for the most part, if people were going to take something badly, and not check it out, it was their problem, not mine. This of course came after a lot of work to get there, and it’s not fail-proof even now. But it leaves my mind time to think on things that are more important to me. So in this way I am glad for the dab of that element in me. Not so much in other ways sometimes, but that’s a different story. Also, one of my schools offers a note of confidence that possibly plays a part, and it is the combo together that has allowed me to work through this, I think. This combo also leaves me a bit gullible, again, another story. But I know that I, and I am certain many others benefit from all you “overthinkers” out there!

          10. lickemtomorrow says:

            Hey AV, once again I can relate to what you have said and appreciate you sharing your thoughts <3 I did put off dating, and don't regret it. I had more than enough to keep me busy and it's just as well considering what I walked right back into as well. It was a saving grace I didn't feel the need to be in a relationship and also wanted to give my children the best of me which meant focusing my energies on them. Motherhood, in many ways, was my calling. As they grew older and more independent I let my guard down finally. Sadly, in some ways, I learnt my lesson. But a least my kids were a whole lot less impacted by it. If there's a bright side, that's it for me. While the guard might be up again for now, I'll trust it won't stay up forever after finding my way here <3 xox

          11. A Victor says:

            LET, I don’t regret putting off dating either, not at all. I wasn’t ever thinking I would even want to again. My children were my calling also, no high powered career for me. But I am happy that choice was made. My ex actually made it, he insisted I stay home. Oh well, it was for the best probably, I can’t imagine having to have supported a career on top of him and the other 4 kids I had, hahaha. But now, with the empty nest looming, I am feeling the void of a real relationship. This is an improvement though, yesterday I thought it was a void in myself! Learning all the time! x

          12. JB says:

            LET, I overthink with everyone, normal or otherwise! Damn my stupid brain!!

          13. lickemtomorrow says:

            Yes, JB, I think being the child of a narcissist will ingrain that in you more thoroughly, unfortunately. So you look for manipulations even when they aren’t there. As I said in my comment to AV, we become more guarded and less trusting people and you both make a good point in saying that also spills over into other non-narcissistic relationships. Maybe I just don’t want to think I’m that paranoid 😛 But in general with empaths who I have become close to I don’t feel I overthink much at all. And time is probably the test. With a narcissist the cognitive dissonance will eventually come into play. But hopefully we’ve read any other red flags well before that happens to us again <3

          14. A Victor says:

            LET, the quandary I have is that I am very trusting, very gullible. I will see the good even when there is a lot of bad in view. It is the cognitive dissonance. And then the not trusting, a suspicious side, which is also a factor, I just don’t know how it all fits together and how to make the proper one work for me at the proper time. It’s part of the addiction I think.

          15. lickemtomorrow says:

            I think I can relate to what you are saying, JB. It might be part of we want into relationships, but are suspicious of them at the same time. So we will be open and trusting, regardless sometimes of the red flags, perhaps seeking the validation that a relationship can give, while also recognizing those same relationships are capable of causing us a lot of pain. For me it comes back to seeing the red flags early on, or as early as possible, to help lead us out of the dissonance we have been left with. That way we have a greater chance of engaging in more positive relationships. And I think it is part of the addiction as well. I don’t know if you have a co-dependent element, but I think that can lend itself to this type of dynamic, too. We are made gullible when other people take advantage of us. If I were you, I would put that thought back on them. I was also gullible with my last narc, but only because he betrayed my trust xox

          16. A Victor says:

            Hm, yes, I am only gullible when someone uses it as such. Wow, good thought. And decent people will not do that. I still feel the need to guard against people seeing it early on, or be able to recognize that they will abuse it early on. Which is the best route? A combo? It concerns me that we really can’t seem to hide who we are from the narcissists, they are so adept at spotting us. So probably spotting and responding to red flags is where the emphasis should be. This seems like the more difficult choice, quite scary actually because what if I miss something, but the more effective choice nonetheless. Thanks!

          17. lickemtomorrow says:

            Oh, AV, I think I confused you and JB in my reply there … apologies for that x

          18. A Victor says:

            No worries, WordPress shows who it was too and context also helped. Saul Goodman. My boss says that all the time, lol.

          19. A Victor says:

            JB, not stupid, empath. I can easily do the same, you are not alone.

          20. JB says:

            AV, I hadn’t realised HG spoke about that before. Was that in a video, or generally? (I haven’t seen that many videos, I prefer to read)

          21. A Victor says:

            JB, I apologize, I am not sure what you’re asking about, that HG has spoken about. Your comment came up under yourself and I found it by chance.

          22. Truthseeker6157 says:


            You’re welcome, my words were sincerely meant. Hugs to you for your kindness to me also x

            I think there was an element of the self editing and self analysing in me to begin with. Like much of what narcissists do, I think he spotted a trait in me and then played on it. So something fairly non invasive was highlighted and dialled up. As empaths the considering from the opposite side I think is a natural response. I can be in conversation sometimes and think If I say that, they’ll say this, If I say this they’ll interpret like that. A self audit almost. It’s when being in tune with someone isn’t always a good thing. Everything is checked in a way. Less room for spontaneity.

            I think narcissists have to do this too. Their motivation being to control a conversation, ours being simply to be understood correctly. They do it as part of their offence, we do it as defence, on behalf of ourselves and others.

            Yes, the girls are on the up. No doubt about that ! Remind me again, when is our anniversary ?

          23. lickemtomorrow says:

            Everything you said makes sense, TS. Especially the dialling up of a natural trait. They do hone in on these things. I’m probably less likely to check myself for the most part. While I am on guard for manipulations, I’m not assuming any on my part and so I just go ahead. It will be the response that will raise any red flags for me. Unfortunately, with the narcissist, they are adept at covering their manipulations, probably partly to do with the seduction and partly to do with the addiction. We’re in a double bind in that sense. But it is at the point of the response my spontaneity will be reduced. So with another empath there is often an understanding which doesn’t require an element of second guessing. We talk, explain, clarify, digest, all underwritten by our empathic traits. It’s expansive. With the narcissist it becomes contractive. We talk ourselves into smaller and smaller circles as we try to defend ourselves, which is exactly what you have said.

            And the anniversary date is 17th of May <3 xox

          24. Violetta says:

            When I’m done with thinking
            Then I’m done with you
            And when I’m done with crying
            And then I’m done with you
            When I feel so tired
            Then I’m done with you
            You know, everybody feels this way sometimes
            Everybody feels this way

            And I do
            You can’t hear it, but I do
            You can’t hear it, but I do

            You’re trying to convince me
            That what I’ve done’s not right
            And I get so frustrated
            I stay up every night
            You ask me for an answer
            And I’m so tired and I’m up in the air, I’m up in the air
            You know, everybody feels this way sometimes
            Everybody feels this way

            And I do
            You can’t hear it, but I do
            You can’t hear it, but I’m feeling this way
            Just because you say
            I will be ignored and I will be denied
            And I could be erased, I could be brushed aside
            And I will get scared and I will get shoved down
            But I feel like I do because you push me around

            I’m starting to ignore you
            Now, I doubted you so long
            I’m tired of over-thinking
            I know you don’t belong
            Now I’m asking questions
            No one pushes me around
            You know, everybody feels this ways sometimes
            Everybody feels this way

            And I do
            You can’t hear it, but I do
            You don’t seem angry, but I do
            I do
            I do
            I do
            You don’t seem angry, but I do
            You don’t hear it, but I do
            I, I do
            You can’t hear it, but I do
            I do
            You don’t seem angry, but I do
            I do
            You don’t hear it, but I do

            – Lisa Loeb

          25. lickemtomorrow says:

            Wow, Violetta, she’s put it into words. She has another song I like I could relate to narcs in my life as well – “How”

          26. JB says:

            AV, I was replying to this..

            “HG has talk about advertising triangulating us, Coke vs Pepsi etc. I had completely forgotten about that, thank you.”

            I wondered if HG had done a particular video on this or whether he had just commented on triangulation in advertising during blog comments.

          27. A Victor says:

            JB, oh yes, I think I saw a comment about it a long time ago. I think it’s also been in some the the ‘Harry’s Wife’ video a little bit. It was one of those things that went by and I absorbed it but didn’t pay attention, it explains so much though of how our culture is infested with narcissistic thinking and manipulations.

          28. JB says:

            LET, it certainly does spill over into non-narc relationships. My husband tells me/complains I don’t trust anyone, which I reluctantly admit is the case.

          29. Truthseeker6157 says:


            I’ll write it down this time! I’m horrendous with dates, always early for appointments but occasionally I show up early on the wrong day haha!

            Thank you for sharing your date with me. We should raise a glass to each other at the same time. Two people, different places, same thought. Xx

          30. lickemtomorrow says:

            You’re on 🙂 Whiskey is my poison, so I’ll make sure to have some on hand xox

          31. Truthseeker6157 says:

            AV LET,

            AV, I’m sorry, only just caught your comment to me about the overthinking. Cadre might well have something to do with it. I like your approach too with how you are viewed or not viewed. I think it’s healthy. I say similar to my kids about their friends.

            I didn’t interrupt the conversation about the void / emptiness. I don’t think I have one as such but the comment about the empty nest definitely resonates. I dread my two leaving, I’ve five or six years yet, but I think for a mother that emptiness, that departure must be overwhelming.

            I remember my mum telling me that when I went off to uni, she walked upstairs (my room was at the top of the stairs) and she glanced in, everything there as I had left it. She closed the door and continued on, but then felt guilty and reopened the door. She did so because she felt that she was closing me out. So having the door open hurt because I wasn’t there. Having it closed hurt more because she felt she was turning her back on me.

            That’s real pain, real emptiness I think. She was crying as she told me several years later. I was crying as she told me because I could feel it in her. My mum is not an empath. She’s normal, even on the narcissistic side of normal by my estimation. That’s her experience. I don’t think it’s just we empaths that feel the void. I think life events can feed into it too. So maybe part of what you feel is linked to narcissistic relationships in childhood, adulthood or both, but also some of it might also be life changes. They have to be immensely impactful, with our heightened emotions, I truly dread to think what it must be like.

          32. lickemtomorrow says:

            TS, AV, I never thought about Cadres in relation to overthinking. I think I have been coming from the angle of gaslighting, second guessing, and the cognitive dissonance which comes with the narcissist’s manipulations, rather than personality or empathic traits per se. There are definitely two different ways of coming at the idea.

            Ah, TS, you’re going to break my mother’s heart all over again, reading about your own mother’s experience. I can’t even go there right now, just because it’s a fact it will raise my ET sky high! In some ways I was prepared, in others I wasn’t. But I understood the letting go was a natural course of events. What I also needed to understand, and still do at times, is that grieving is a natural part of the process around that. I accepted permission to get on with my own life and fell into the trap with the narcissist. In some ways I am grieving on multiple fronts and for different reasons. There has been a lot to come to terms with … probably another reason I’ve so thoroughly cocooned myself.

            Of course, it will be different for everyone, but I imagine having a supportive partner would make all the difference when it comes to moving into the future as circumstances change. It breaks my heart to have never had that, for myself or my children, and be unable to secure it still. I’m hoping the effects of narcissistic abuse won’t last a lifetime, but the ET is rising just writing that sentence, so I’m going to revisit the hilarious comments on the Love Triangle thread to take my mind off it.

            Might need that whiskey before the 17th, TS 😛

          33. A Victor says:

            LET, have one for me too, I used to rather like whiskey. Having a supportive partner would change everything but it is not in the cards, for me, at this time. So, I must deal with it and move on. Easier said than done in some moments. I have also cocooned myself quite thoroughly, this process is a lot of work and I just don’t have the bandwidth to do much else, spring is helping a bit. The heartbreak for the children is very real. I feel so badly for them but they’ll be okay, better than they would’ve been had my ex stayed with us.

            I have studied personalities over the years, through various avenues. So in my mind, certain aspects of the schools and cadres have connected themselves to the different personalities I’ve studied. That has meant that Carrier, for example, is a very down to business sort of person, not overthinking, just getting it done. And for me this is a hobby, but I have been delighted with how my schools and cadres fit within my former personality traits so perfectly. Not to say it would be so with all or even most of us. It’s just been fun.

          34. lickemtomorrow says:

            AV, I’m very interested in your study of personalities. I’m not a Carrier, but the comparison is interesting. What is your choice for studying personality traits – Myers-Briggs? HG has the most unique categories as he is able to hone in our our empathic natures which no one has ever done before, as well as the narcissists. Singing your praises today, HG <3 And I think the 'dealing with it' is the reality of having no other choice for now, AV. We'll all pick ourselves up in different ways, and certainly you and I are making good use of the blog to help us do that. Not sure where I would have been without it over the last year. The ability to recover from the last narc with expert advice and support means I need to start counting my blessings again xox

          35. lickemtomorrow says:

            Grrrr … *on our* not our our! And I haven’t even had that whiskey yet 😛

          36. A Victor says:

            LET, I have studied MB, the eneagram(sp), the temperaments, a couple of systems associated with fashion, the Love Languages etc. If it’s out there, I’ve probably looked at it. It fascinates me, figuring out what makes people tick. And the EDC and, to a lesser extent the TDC, make a lot of sense within that picture. They look at things from a different angle, I haven’t given it a lot of thought due to time constraints so it’s just been loose connections. Also, some things tie/work together, others layer, some are stand alone etc, I haven’t even looked at it closely enough to make a guess at this, how it would fit, would it be foundational or an add on etc?Like I said, just for fun. Gave me something to keep my mind busy during my marriage, that was just for me. I am extremely impressed at the accuracy of the detectors though, spot on.

            The blog has been a gift. A really amazing, life-saving gift.

          37. A Victor says:

            TS, I do agree that the events in my life are having an impact on the void sensation. As LET said, tears at the thought of your mother. I’ve been through three leaving already, your mother’s story really struck a chord, you’d think I’d be used to it. But he is the final one. And I won’t have a person here to do things with at all then. Only my mother. Which of course makes it even worse! Well, I will fill my time, only after work hours and weekends anyway, with things I enjoy. Like…blogging… 🙂 And jogging!! 🙂

          38. Truthseeker6157 says:


            And looking at convertible hire for your trip to the UK, and, golf! Lots to look forward to xx

  7. Asp Emp says:

    The products look great, HG.

    The chicken ‘expression’ is hilarious – looks ‘surprised’ or shell-shocked…… (laughing)…. I am reminded of a conversation somewhere on this blog in relation to rubber chickens and batteries….. laughing…… and, no I don’t carry either in my handbag……. nor use a handbag these days either….. LOLOL.

  8. A Victor says:

    It sounds like she realized who you were, with your little smile. So if we jog past you, with your merch bouncing on our bosoms, will you smile at us too?? It seems like your identity may become known if that happened too many times. Oh well, off to get my jogging shoes on now…

    1. HG Tudor says:

      If my merch is bouncing on your bosom you will draw a wry smile from your evil overlord.

      1. A Victor says:

        Haha, oh, it will be, just as soon as it arrives.

      2. A Victor says:

        Hey, I just looked up “wry”! 🤔

      3. TheVimtoSlut says:

        THIS^^ Has had me in stitches this morning! Crying with laughter! OMG. I need to dig out my sports bra if I’m going to buy a Hg tee and go out for a brisk, dawn preambulation!

        I can’t make my mind up on either 🐔 or 🍌. Yellow is my colour though, so there’s that.

        I did spy a wicked pair of yellow, 🍌joggers, ‘Strong and Confident Woman’? I like those.

        You see the downside to bananagate is that from that day to this, I cannot actually even put a banana in my mouth unless it has a strong, empowering words of encouragement attached. They can be spoken, doesn’t have to be written.

        1. A Victor says:

          Hahaha, thank you for the tears of laughter in return! Great comment, all things I will now need to consider as well.

          I went with the gray slouchy tee that lays HG Tudor right across my bosom, in yellow. I actually got it for that reason, better him than either a chicken or a banana. It should arrive any day, I’m super excited!

          And I’ll never look at a banana the same again, thank you!!

          1. TheVimtoSlut says:

            My pleasure!

        2. Truthseeker6157 says:


          I had a banana of empowerment this morning too. It said “ I told you not to drink that last G&T.”

          All this empowerment is making them bolshy.

          1. A Victor says:

            Hahaha!!! I have a splitting headache this morning and all this laughing is not helping it! Yet I read on!

          2. TheVimtoSlut says:


            That may have been a rare banana of dis-empowerment. Surely gin is a human right?

          3. Truthseeker6157 says:


            “Surely gin is a human right”

            It is in my house!


          4. TheVimtoSlut says:


            Good to know on gin. :-)!

        3. Asp Emp says:

          TVS, I loved your comment – made me laugh. “bananagate” – brilliant. Your last paragraph – RAOFLMAO. I prefer hard bananas 😉

          1. A Victor says:

            Asp Emp! Hahaha!!

          2. Asp Emp says:

            AV, I was referring to the ones you buy from the supermarket, and, yes, those ones have to be hard….. too (laughing).

          3. A Victor says:

            Haha, nice try!

        4. Violetta says:


          Pseudo-calligraphy optional?

          1. TheVimtoSlut says:


            Psuedo is fine. When I read that all I could hear is Phil Collins and sus sus Sussudio!


            I actually can’t believe I’m posting about Phil Collins. Bowie had lots of things to say about him. None of them nice…but very very funny!

            To re-level this, I offer ‘China Girl’.


          2. Violetta says:


            Well, she’s got to pseudo the callig. Mention Beneventan or Carolingian Miniscule and MM would start the Mask Carousel whirling. She can’t show that she doesn’t know what you’re talking about. Are you making fun of her? Should she be offended? Oh, got it:
            she’ll give you a conspiratorial wink, from one calligrapher to another. Then sneer at you behind your back, because you just reminded her that she really doesn’t know what she’s talking about.

            What did Bowie say about Phil Collins?

          3. TheVimtoSlut says:


            OK, with you now!

            Phil Collins and Bowie. Yup. It was after Bowies’ last big stadium tour, Glass Spiders. Immediatly afterwards he burnt the set in the desert because he felt the tour had turned him into some ‘fucking Phil Collins’. He had a point.

          4. Violetta says:

            I wish I could have seen him during his Ziggy Stardust phase. His ’70s stuff is way more interesting than all the ’80s stuff that got most of the airplay and still does on the oldies stations. Seriously, “Modern Love,” “China Girl,” and “Under Pressure,” or “Rebel Rebel,” “Life on Mars,” and “Hang on to Yourself”?

          5. TheVimtoSlut says:


            I do find it interesting that even though Bowie had many personas there does appear to be a demarcation between the 70s and the 80s.

            I’ve been sat here wondering why that should be. Perhaps it might be that Bowie grasped perhaps earlier than anyone else the importance of the music video and reinvented himself that way. I caught an interview on YouTube were Paxo interviews Bowie in 1999. What Bowie says about the Internet back then is so accurate.

        5. Cherish says:

          Lol what’s all the banana talk about feels like a missed a whole trimester! Back to HG school I guess

          1. HG Tudor says:

            See the Harry´s Wife/Meghan Markle series on YouTube, it appertains to the bananas of empowerment, as I labelled them.

          2. Cherish says:

            Thank you much HG . I’ll look it up

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