How the Narcissist Turns a Trait Against You

Trait

 

The chime of my ‘phone alerted me to the arrival of a text. There was nothing unusual in that. Scores arrive daily and this rises to beyond a hundred and more when the glorious seduction has commenced of a fresh, prime target. I looked over with half-interest to my ‘phone and see a name which attracted a greater level of interest. It is from Jane. An ex. One of the many exes. I stopped what I was doing and reached for my ‘phone and opened up the message.

“It would be 2 years today x”

A flame rose inside of me at this sudden provision of fuel. Even better it was unsolicited. Goodness me, would it have been two years? How time flies. The power flowed, generated by this welcome dollop of fuel. Dear Jane, always the one for remembering dates. She sent me a card and a gift to mark 1 month together. She pole-danced for me to commemorate one month since we first had sex (no the pole-dance and the card and gift were on different dates, just in case you were wondering. I am a gentleman after all). She sent a card to remind me that is was three months since our first kiss, a month since I first stayed overnight at her house, six months since we first set eyes on another. I used to call her the Chronicler for her ability to remember the anniversary of certain key moments in our relationship. At first I was suitable impressed by her memory and power of recall but then I realised that she had assistance. On one particular occasion I was having a good look around her house whilst she was out, opening draws, cupboards and so on in order to learn more about this enticing individual who I had seduced and in the process of this trawl I found a diary. At the rear she had a list of key moments in our relationship with the date written next to it. First date, first kiss, first time we had sex, first time pet name was used, first weekend away, first “I love you” and so on. Each milestone, from the trivial to the fundamental had been carefully written in her neat hand-writing (she always wrote with a Mont Blanc fountain pen – something which I liked until I decided to bend the nib one day after she accused me of forgetting her mother’s birthday. I didn’t forget. I deliberately did not remember). Each moment, each occasion had been carefully committed to the rear of this diary and beside it the date inserted as well. I was impressed and as I sat reading it, I felt the fuel of her dedication and admiration pouring over me. She was not there to do it but I knew from reading those neat entries just how much we meant to her, just how important I was and the fuel flowed. I remember sitting on her bed clasping the leather bound diary and realising that Jane was meeting my expectations and that I had such high hopes for her. The reminders and commemorations kept coming. She never forgot anything. Naturally the more traditional anniversaries – birthdays, Christmas and so forth were addressed and not only for me, but close friends, family and even Matrinarc.

Of course this slavish devotion to the recollection of events could not go unused by me. When she fell from grace and her denigration and devaluation began I would always send her a reminder written in black ink (using a superior Mont Blanc fountain pen) on a crisp piece of thick white paper inserted into a stylish small envelope. I would leave these reminders on her pillow, on her car seat, under her windscreen wiper, in her bag, on her laptop and so forth.

–         1 week since I last spoke to you –

–         2 months since our first argument –

–         5 days since I rang you –

–         A month since we last made love –

–         A week since the last silent treatment –

–         Three months since I took you anywhere

I have no idea if the timing was entirely correct with some of them, it was the effects I was after. Sometimes she would telephone me and question why I had done this. If it was during a silent treatment I said nothing but listened, allowing her strained tones to fuel me. Other times I would just stare at her and then snarl an insult, causing her to jump and her fearful look would naturally provide me with further fuel. On other occasions she did not manage to contact me but it did not matter because I knewhow she would be responding as I used the very thing she liked to engage as an endearing gesture from her to me in our relationship, against her. We like to take the wonderful and then batter it, rust it, twist it and warp it so it resembles something else entirely and this act of defiling is powerful indeed in its effect.

Soon I accelerated their use at one stage having them delivered through her door on a daily basis.

–         One day since I realised I hate you –

–         Two days since I realised I hate you –

–         Three days since I realised I hate you –

–         Four days since I realised I hate you –

–         Five days since I realised I hate you

–         Six days since I realised I hate you –

–         Seven days since I realised I hate you –

–         Eight days since I realised I hate you –

–         Nine days since I realised I hate you –

–         Ten days since I realised I hate you –

–         I don’t hate you. I love you –

That last note was a highly effective respite hoover which had her call me straight away and I answered straight away and her sobbed relief poured over me with such potency, marvellous fuel that it was. Once again by using the very tool she deployed in our relationship I was able to bend it and her to my will.

Eventually she was cast aside, the new prospect of Andrea having come into my sights and dear Jane was removed, not even afforded the courtesy of being a memory. That is until that text message arrived.

A foolish move on her part to reach out to me in this way but having received the text, I knew that it was inevitable she would have done it and indeed I know that when it is 3 years, 5 years or 10 years she will keep sending these reminders. Her memory had been conditioned this way. Notwithstanding the pain it will invariably cause her she wanted me to know that she remembered still. The addition of a single ‘x’ was the green light which told me that my follow-up hoover (of course there would be one) will succeed and she would respond to it. Dangerous to apply those kisses. She had entered my sphere of influence. I did not want her back, I was busy with Andrea and that seduction, but this reminder told me that there was fuel just waiting to be collected. All I had to decide was how I was going to go about. There was no need to be malign about it, a benign follow-up hoover would work but in what form and for how long? That was what then occupied my mind as once again I remembered dear Jane and her delicious fuel. So good of her to remind me.

70 thoughts on “How the Narcissist Turns a Trait Against You

  1. Z - zwartbolleke says:

    Mercy,

    As long as you cry for yourself it’s ok and it’s normal. Just never cry for someone who doesn’t deserve your tears. From what I remember he was a horrible person. Better enjoy the funny and educational conversations on the forum!

    I got permission today to publish my parts for the forum, as soon as I have time I will publish them, that will distract you I promise!

    My life was literally on hold while working on that. I worked 343 days, focussed only on finding the truth, or what I think is possibly the truth. Other than that, I’m ok.
    Enjoying a short holiday at the moment at my sisters in Ireland and her children. Because of Covid I was not able to visit for two years. Really awful. Hopefully this will never happen again. Catching up time with the children now!

    1. WhoCares says:

      “I got permission today to publish my parts for the forum, as soon as I have time I will publish them, that will distract you I promise!”

      Yes!

      Enjoy your time at your sister’s, Z!

      1. Z - zwartbolleke says:

        Mercy, WhoCares,

        Alea iacta est …
        It is sent into the forum. The period of waiting has started now 😬😬😬

        My nerves, my heartbeat….
        The tension every time I refresh the page…

        My ET was low but it is sky high again… all possible scenarios running in my head, “but what if” , “and suppose that”… argh…

        1. WhoCares says:

          Z!
          You don’t have to post a link if you’re not comfortable with that – but just let me know: did you bury it in the comments?!

        2. Mercy says:

          Z, I’ve searched every page for anything posted in 2021. I don’t see it. A little help please!!!!

          1. Z - zwartbolleke says:

            Oh my, I’m sorry….
            I only announced I published it (after I got permission)

            That’s what I meant with: Alea iacta est. No more changing and thinking, it is sent.

            But still no luck on the publishing part.

            But the strangest things are happening with my account: at first I saw my 2 comments with status “your comment is awaiting moderation”. Ok fine. Then after a week, the second comment was published but not the first, I literally got a heart attack. I was in bed when I saw it and literally nearly had a heart attack. I thought oh no, this is a disaster, only the second comment nobody will understand this I really almost lost it. A day later both the comments were gone!
            As Mr Tudor confirmed to me he did not do that, I have nothing but ???
            Are the comments gone, I have no idea?

            I’m so very sorry you both lost so much of your precious time with searching, please search not further, the comments are not hidden, they are published on August 22 (23?), and should appear under NA latest comment.

          2. Mercy says:

            Z, thank God you didn’t actually have a heart attack and that you were laying down. In the future, I suggest that you don’t drive , care for small children or stand close to the edge of bridges when checking updates on KHG. You make me laugh!

            How about this, if I only see one post I’ll wait until the other comes through before I start reading. That way I can be sure you won’t have a heart attack on my account.

            Can’t wait to read. I know it’ll be good!

          3. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Hey Z,

            Don’t worry too much. I also posted a comment there and it doesn’t show as ‘awaiting moderation’ in the usual way. It’s no where to be seen.

            I think it’s simply down to how busy HG is at the moment. It could be that it depends on HG’s location as to which areas of the blog are moderated. It could also be HG accessing the blog remotely. I imagine you are both excited and nervous to see your hard work posted. I’ve lost comments before but they always come through in time. Don’t fret, I think this is a location or a forum reset thing.

            Xx

          4. A Victor says:

            I have been having similar issues with comments I’ve put on DC. They’ve disappeared and then are not there. I hope you are correct, that they will eventually show up. I’ve put a couple on DC to test it over the weekend.

          5. A Victor says:

            Realizing HG may not have gotten to them yet, of course!

          6. Violetta says:

            Z: I’ve had posts appear “awaiting moderation,” then disappear entirely, then appear. Maybe while they’re being actively moderated (instead of waiting in some sort of queue) they disappear temporarily. WP is weird.

            Not sure you need to worry about HG disapproving of you. You’re a loyal reader, & I think he’d tell you off-list if there were a real problem, like when I got too involved in someone else’s feud. It’s not like you’re a flyby where he might decide there are no lessons to be learned and it’s not worth the trouble of posting or replying.

            I’ve had posts that disappeared permanently, but I know it’s because I got too far off topic on cooking or fashion or other frivolous matters. HG can be pretty lenient, but when he decides there’s been enough digression, it just reminds me to focus.

            You got his permission, so it doesn’t seem like you’re going off on bizarre tangents as I tend to do.

            Looking forward to reading your posts.

          7. Z - zwartbolleke says:

            Thank you TS,
            I do hope the problem is as simple as that!

    2. Mercy says:

      Z,

      343 days??? Now that’s commitment! I’ve just put in a request for the password. I’m excited to read what you have found.

      Enjoy your vacation and the little ones.

  2. Mercy says:

    WhoCares, Its good to see you too! Ive been looking through the comments to see if I could find you. Im a bit rusty navigating Word Press but its coming back to me. How have you been? How is your legal situation going?

    I miss our KHG discussions too! I just tried to log in but I cant get in. Did the password change?

    1. WhoCares says:

      Mercy,

      “How have you been? How is your legal situation going?”

      I’m well, thanks!

      Status quo still being maintained, although there is a court date soon.
      I recently received a birthday hoover – a ‘change in representation’ sent to my lawyer on the same day. – my ex is now self-representing.
      That’s okay because: no filter!

      Still just trying to do my best “no contact” (outside of legal interactions) and he keeps putting his brand of crazy record.

      “I miss our KHG discussions too! I just tried to log in but I cant get in. Did the password change?”

      I have been posting now and then on the forum. Less so on the main blog.
      Yes, the password had changed – email HG!

      1. Mercy says:

        Who Cares,

        I’m sorry about the long delay. Since my last post the ex N took his own life the same day he was scheduled to go to court and agree to a plea deal. I’ve been avoiding KTN for fear it’ll trigger emotions I don’t want to deal with. I think I’m ok but I really don’t know because I haven’t allowed myself to feel anything. I guess it’s finally over since one of us is dead. It doesn’t feel like he’s gone though.

        So your ex is now representing himself huh? I read that and had to laugh. I don’t remember what type of narc your ex is, but as long as he’s not a greater this is really good news for you.

        I will email HG about the password change. I miss the sleuthing! It’s a welcome distraction and it keeps me vigilant when dealing with Narcs on a day to day basis. Knowing HG is the ultimate schooling in knowing a narcissist mind.

        Has FYC been around? Her and I had some bumpy convos but I’ve been thinking about her alot and miss her practical thoughts and advice.

        1. WhoCares says:

          Omg Mercy,

          What a shock and a mix of emotions after reading your first paragraph…I am a bit sad for you, relieved for you…(and a tiny bit envious I must admit that your narcissist will never be in your life again). I can understand how that is difficult to process for you. Wow.

          I’ll get back to you on my legal stuff..

          FYC has popped in on the blog now and then. But not on the forum. I do miss a lot of those conversations, bumps and all.

          It’s really nice to hear from you Mercy. And what news!!

          1. Mercy says:

            WhoCares,

            I was shocked by your response and I don’t know why because of course you would understand. Relief was the first thing I felt when I heard he had committed suicide. That’s not something most people accept as appropriate emotions after someone dies. Your response reminds me of all of his victims (many that I know of now) and the relief they must feel too. I can’t help but think this was his last desperate attempt to control our emotions one more time. In all honesty, I wasn’t surprised by the news. I was waiting for someone to tell me he had been sentenced or was dead.

            I haven’t been sleeping well because I’m afraid to let my mind wonder. The other night he was in my dream and it wasn’t so bad. We were at his place and we both knew he was going to die. It was a dream so it didn’t make a lot of sense but there was no hate or sadness. It was just goodbye. It’s hard to explain but I’ve never experienced anything like that in a dream.

            I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to come here and spill all if my sorrows. I literally have no one to talk to that will understand. I don’t speak about him to anyone. My girls will ask once in a while but they don’t need to know their momma is a basket case inside. 😀

            Thank you for listening and responding. It’s comforting to have people that understand.

          2. WhoCares says:

            Mercy,

            “I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to come here and spill all if my sorrows. I literally have no one to talk to that will understand.”

            Where else, but here, would anyone understand? This is the best place for this.

            I understand it’s a complex emotional response and not the ‘norm’ to death…or the socially acceptable/appropriate – but not gonna lie – after reading your news I fantasized about receiving the same news and having to break it to my son…I don’t think I would be able to tell him right away, but not sure what I would tell him in the interim.
            I am glad you chose to share – you are not burdening anyone with your sorrows.
            And we would want to know, especially something that significant.
            I hope your dreams stop troubling you soon and you get some rest 💜

          3. Mercy says:

            WhoCares,

            “but not gonna lie – after reading your news I fantasized about receiving the same news and having to break it to my son.”

            Hahaha why does this make me laugh? What is wrong with us?? We are messed up. Remember the days fantasizing about the man who will sweep us off our feet. Hah! If only we knew then what we know now.

          4. WhoCares says:

            Oh Mercy!

            “If only we knew then what we know now.”

            Has multiple applications in our situations.

            One that comes to mind for me as of late…if 12 or so years ago anyone had told me: “You’re going to be a single mother in the city of _______, someday.” (The city where I am now.)
            I would have said “Shut the front door!”

          5. WhoCares says:

            Mercy,

            I am replying here to your other post.

            My education plans are a little daunting, but going to give a go.

            “Every once in awhile I’ll read something that reminds me of KHG and I jot it down in my notes.”

            Me too!

            I’m am glad to hear that you are in a good (if busy) place at work. And I am really glad to hear that you’ll be around here.

          6. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Mercy,

            Goodness, that must have been a shock. Relief sounds entirely normal to me.

            It’s lovely to see you back on the blog, I did wonder about you and missed your voice in the forum. I’m glad you yourself are ok and hope you soon find peace with the news.

            Xx

          7. Mercy says:

            Truthseeker,

            Thank you for your kind words. It’s good to hear from you too. I’m excited to catch up and see how everyone is doing. I hope you are doing well.

        2. WhoCares says:

          Wow Mercy – I am just floored by that news. My mouth is hanging open. That would be hard to process.

          I sent an earlier reply (but I keep getting errors messages and never know if it was successful and I can’t remember what I said atm in order to retype.)
          I will follow up with a more thorough reply. Good to hear from you though, even with your shocking news.

        3. WhoCares says:

          Mercy,

          I was in the middle of laundry and stuff when I saw your reply earlier. I can answer better now.
          “I’m sorry about the long delay. Since my last post the ex N took his own life the same day he was scheduled to go to court and agree to a plea deal. I’ve been avoiding KTN for fear it’ll trigger emotions I don’t want to deal with. I think I’m ok but I really don’t know because I haven’t allowed myself to feel anything. I guess it’s finally over since one of us is dead. It doesn’t feel like he’s gone though.”

          No need to apologize. I am a very patient empath, lol. Just glad to hear from you. Still *wowing* over your news – I guess your ex took it to the ultimate assertion if control. How are your girls handling things?

          “So your ex is now representing himself huh? I read that and had to laugh. I don’t remember what type of narc your ex is, but as long as he’s not a greater this is really good news for you.”

          He is LMRN. And, as if our last court date, he has now found a new lawyer *sigh*. His last lawyer was aggressive – this current one, I don’t know: there are mixed reviews (I am certain that the new hasn’t been properly filled in on his new client – like, that he has outstanding legal payments etc.) Honestly, I am (mostly) bit concerned over the legal stuff these days – I think this new legal chapter work run it’s course – and I am prepared for all outcomes. It hasn’t stopped me from making plans for myself. I am bound to the legal process but I am not really no longer invested in it. I don’t even feel like it’s my battle anymore.

          “I will email HG about the password change. I miss the sleuthing! It’s a welcome distraction and it keeps me vigilant when dealing with Narcs on a day to day basis. Knowing HG is the ultimate schooling in knowing a narcissist mind.”

          I miss it too. And, soon I may not have as much time to give to it as in the past because I am going to upgrade my education. So, before that all starts, I have been trying to normalize the summer (with some fun activities) for my son after an abnormal school year – due to Covid, etc., and in anticipation for not having time for a lot fun soon.

          “Has FYC been around? Her and I had some bumpy convos but I’ve been thinking about her alot and miss her practical thoughts and advice.”

          As I said in another comment, she has been on the blog sporadically but not in the forum at all.

          1. WhoCares says:

            Holy – I should have reread that (Autocorrect!!)

            “Honestly, I am (mostly) bit concerned over the legal stuff”

            mostly *not concerned

            “I think this new legal chapter work run it’s course”

            *will run it’s course

          2. Mercy says:

            WhoCares,

            I’m getting good vibes from your response. “I am bound to the legal process but I am not really no longer invested in it”. This is good! I think it will be the beginning to the end of your legal issues. Once he realizes you are no longer invested maybe he will get board with it and drop it all. I’m happy to hear you are upgrading your education. I know that has to be exciting for you. I don’t have as much time for sleuthing either but I’m always on the lookout for clues. Every once in awhile I’ll read something that reminds me of KHG and I jot it down in my notes. I can’t dig in as heavily as before but I do want to stay in the loop and give my input when I can.

            I think I told you about my new position at work. It takes a lot of my time and there has been a lot of additional education as well. I have poured myself into this new chapter of my life but I know my commitment is just a distraction from other things. Still, it is time consuming and I need to spread myself out and allow myself to start enjoying life again.

            I’m sticking around. I think I’m safe (emotionally) to be here. I’m glad to hear from you and happy to know you are in a good place and moving forward. ❤

        4. NarcAngel says:

          Mercy
          Quite the bombshell. I understand your initial reaction and that you may experience shifting feelings over time, but I am happy to know that you no longer have to deal with the threat of his physical or continuing emotional presence or manipulations.

          Oh, regarding KHG series:

          It’s a garden.

          That hasn’t been confirmed. I just couldn’t resist trying to make you laugh.

          1. Mercy says:

            Thank you for your continued support NA. It means alot. And thanks for keeping it light. I need light. Fluffy light like a cotton ball. Or plant of cotton blowing in the wind of a metaphorical garden!

          2. WhoCares says:

            “It’s a garden.”

            Hahaha!

            Thanks NA.
            Best laugh I have had in a while.

        5. Z - zwartbolleke says:

          OMG Mercy,
          It’s a few hours ago since I read your post and I am thinking about one thing only, and that is answering you to this post, but what do you answer to this…
          I have no words, staring at my screen for 10 minutes, who on earth does that…
          Oh my god how lonely you must have felt, shocked, guilty about your own relief, torn apart between emotions, I understand very well KTN is not the best place to be in such moments (too triggering, I understand).

          Sending you love Mercy 💛💛😘

          Z

          1. Mercy says:

            Z, Thank you. I’ve cried more today than I have since I found out. I’m ok though. I really am. I’m giving myself today to be sad for myself and the others but tomorrow I’m letting it go. At least I’ll let the sad stuff go. I’m sure there will be other things to deal with but I’ll be fine. The worst is over.

            I don’t feel lonely anymore. The support from you guys has really helped.

            How are you? Are you doing OK?

        6. Violetta says:

          Mercy:

          I didn’t see this thread until now. I hope you’re OK. It would be perfectly natural for you both to be glad he’s gone, and to feel guilty for thinking it. They’re just thoughts, as a good priest told me after a death in my family. Thoughts bubble up some times: let them, and then move on from them without worrying about them as if they had the weight of confirmed facts.

  3. Mercy says:

    I have a hard time remembering anything about my time in the relationship. I don’t remember the date we met, the year I became aware of what he is or the last time I spoke to him. I think it’s because I’m so ashamed of who I was when I was with him. I don’t want to remember.

    1. NarcAngel says:

      Hi Mercy. Glad to see you are well as I have thought of you often.

      1. Mercy says:

        NA, thank you. I was comforted when I saw your response this morning. I’ve missed my support system! It’s been a hard year for everyone. I’ve basically buried myself in my work in order to get through. In March I got blindsided. My phone started blowing up with text about the ex N. He got arrested on charges worse than what I’ve already told you about. Things he did while I was with him that I had no idea about. When I compared the dates in the news article, I realized that I remember nothing. I wanted to know what “stage” we were in when he committed these crimes. It’s all so blurry. It’s been over a year since I last talked to him. I rarely think about him but he still haunts me. He’s still that white noise in the back of my head.

        Aside from that, Im actually doing pretty well. How are you? Anything new or exciting happen while I’ve been gone?

        1. NarcAngel says:

          Mercy

          I remember the situation you were embroiled in previous to your absence here, so I’m sorry to hear that you are still being plagued by news of his behaviours. If these updates come/came from the third party involved I hope you can remove (or have already removed) yourself from their access and influence. It’s natural to think back and try to link things to the “stage” you were in at the time, but try to fight the urge and break yourself of this habit of thinking because (and I know you know this) – it is a breach of no contact and keeps you linked to him. Easier said than done I know, but the only stage that really matters now is that you’re relationship with him is end stage.

          All is well here thank you.
          NA

          1. Mercy says:

            Well the third party was my kids and I’ve been trying to remove myself from their access since they started talking but they won’t go away haha. Seriously though, I told them right away that I don’t want to know anymore and they respect that. I inactivated my FB as soon as I found out and ignored any text from ppl that don’t really matter. I don’t even check local news anymore just in case they talk about it.

            I knew I was going to get a ta ta for breaking no contact! It’s hard to control that ET though. I’m glad you are doing well and thank you for letting me vent. I can’t and won’t do it anywhere else but here.

    2. Z - zwartbolleke says:

      Mercy!!!!
      My friend, I misssssssssss you 🥺
      I hope you are ok and are only busy…
      Hugs, x

      1. Mercy says:

        Zzzzz, I’ve missed you too!! I was so happy to get a notification with your pretty face and cute kitty! How have you been? Anything new? Are you still working on KHG?

    3. WhoCares says:

      Mercy 🙂,

      Good to see you.

      Miss you – and our KHG discussions!

      I am sorry that your ex N is coming up your radar. But it sounds like you have much to distract and keep you busy.

      Take care.

  4. Empath007 says:

    HG, the recent breakup between Kim and Kayne has me wondering… Is it possible a narcissist has the ability to make another narcissist “act out” ? Essentially, is it possible that Kim being a higher school of narcissist then Kayne made him worse – and wore him down over the years ? Leading to this “bi polar” diagnosis.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      A narcissist can threaten another narcissist´s need for control and do so on a repeated and sustained basis.

      1. Empath007 says:

        Interesting. So it’s possible one narc may have the “upper hand” as it were when two narcs collide.

  5. A Victor says:

    Sometimes, if these things weren’t so absolutely horrible to the receiving party, I would be tempted to giggle about the image in my mind of you doing this stuff. It is so…not the HG we know here, the mature and logical HG. But alas, these poor victims, they are us with our narcs. Even so, grateful for what you are doing, so much so.

    1. BC30 says:

      Have you read The Three That Got Away? I when I read that article and this article and wondered why does he not “rekindle” the romance and thought to myself, “I move the stars for no one.”

      1. A Victor says:

        I had purchased the readable version early on, it was traumatizing to read at that time due to where I was at. So I purchased the audio version much later, hesitantly, and literally just listened to it a few days ago for the first time, twice in a row. Exactly, we are only appliances.

        One thing that stood out, HG recognized that one of them would benefit from him and his logic, and he offered it. Was that due to the fact that they possibly hadn’t reached devaluation yet? Would that be offered in devaluation? Or is it completely dependent on circumstances and how it will affect the narcissist? Probably just answered my own question…

        1. BC30 says:

          Ok, the second one. I wonder what it was that was the tipping point for her.

          It took me way too long to find mine.

          1. A Victor says:

            I had the exact same question!

            And it took me way too long too. Over 2 decades too long! 😳😭

    2. JB says:

      AV, indeed. It’s strange, isn’t it, to accept that the behaviours outlined in the blog articles relate to the person who we talk to on here. The Jekyll and Hyde-ness of it both fascinates me and terrifies me, in equal measures! But that has been the best lesson ever – to realise that people and situations aren’t always as they seem and to trust no-one!

      1. A Victor says:

        JB, trust no one at the beginning anyway. Yes, I find it fascinating. Not terrifying really, except as our own narcs deceive us in the same ways. But not terrified of HG. He’s too far away. If I lived in the UK I might feel differently. Lol!

        1. JB says:

          AV, ha ha, he might not even be in the UK! Trust noone, remember? 😜 😂

          1. A Victor says:

            Yes, I ignore that thought when it pops up. Actually, what I think is that I would recognize the accent, here in midwest USA. Haha, but, again, trust no one, including their accent!! Laughing!!

    3. JB says:

      AV, I think also, to an extent, we kid ourselves at some subconscious level that the narcissist in the articles and HG are separate people, as to fully, fully accept they are one and the same could be seen as condoning the behaviours, which normally I guess most emphatic people wouldn’t do. I have asked myself, should I be applying GOSO here? I guess that is where my own narcy traits are kicking in, in that I justify it by thinking it is suiting my needs to be here, it’s not a personal thing, it’s a transaction of sorts. HG gets what he needs by us being here, we get what we need. God, that does sound cold and heartless, doesn’t it, but it’s honestly how I feel x

      1. A Victor says:

        Same, and it must be kept to that way of thinking, kept on a professional level really, in my mind. As I have stated elsewhere, I do enjoy some fun with HG but I have to remind myself that it must be for my progress or it’s off limits. And I do a fair amount of work here that no one except possibly HG would be aware of. Stretching my new skills and practicing, it is a safe place for it, I am grateful this place is here.

        Any benefit he gets from us is great, I gave no qualms with that, he’s offering a needed service to mankind and deserves wherever comes of it toward himself. And he’s quite open about his benefits and his goals, so I have no problem with that aspect.

        1. JB says:

          AV, definitely! Never mix business and pleasure! I think the anonymity is vital. It enables us to offload and learn from everyone, without anyone ever knowing who we are!

          I don’t mind either. I read so many people on Fb who complain we are just fuelling HG. HG maintains it is of little potency due to us being tertiary sources, but tbh whether or not this is the case is of no concern to me at all. As I said, it’s a transaction of sorts. Still hate that I think that way though, that’s not like me normally at all!

          1. A Victor says:

            Ah, I see. It is like me when there’s money involved. Very much so. It is one area that I have slightly less problem being assertive, I am a tightwad! Yes, the anonymity is what allows the freedom of speech here and in consults. Also, I agree about the fuel, he can have it, if there is any, I get what I paid for and I am grateful, very much so.

            Part of my learning and growing is getting comfortable with men in a way that is healthy, I literally have no male relationships except my son, 2 son-in-laws and my pastor, none of whom I would discuss much, if any, of this with nor would I feel like I could “practice” new skills with any of them, though I will need to use new skills once those skills are a bit established. It does seem odd to feel free to do so with HG, an admitted narcissistic psychopath, but, it’s almost better since he is so like my father, one of the people who taught me a skewed view of how relationships between people actually should be. It is like I can reverse learn and then relearn properly. It’s a goal anyway. And HG makes it very easy, very comfortable, to do whatever work is needed.

            An example, @LET also – my recent “failure” was oversleeping on an early morning consult I was supposed to have with HG. It sent me into a regular tizzy, I don’t do things like oversleep. It brought back all the fear of failure with my father. Fear of losing his “love”, or approval, and being completely rejected by him, as everyone else was. As his Golden Child I had always been on his ‘good’ side but I knew how little it took to be on his bad side, which then meant total and complete rejection. Knowing HG is a narcissist with expectations and fury, like my dad, played into my fear of this with him as well. Well, obviously HG didn’t and doesn’t do that with a professional situation, he was great about it, but my fear that he would respond negatively was illogical, visceral and overwhelming that entire week, it was rough. Once we spoke he worked with me to get to the logic, it turned into a great lesson, my fear was absolutely unfounded, and even if it might have played out differently with my father, I didn’t need to fear it so much. It would have hurt but I wouldn’t have died even if he had rejected me. Now I know I can let others decide how they will be and choose to not take their decision on myself. I can sort through if something is actually a failure, as missing the call was, but also how serious it really is, missing the call was not that serious, it doesn’t make me a failure at life to have missed it. Before, I would’ve felt a failure at life and really beat myself up, projecting the worst into the situation without finding out the facts and even likely altering my behavior to avoid the person or something else. The fact that I had already paid for the following consult forced me to keep it and deal with this, even though I did not want to.

            I was so programmed as an ACON to hear negative messages, in my own head, that those messages are first nature. I really need to practice my new skills and make those first nature instead, as much as possible. My fear of failure has held me back in many ways in my life, and though it is a late start, I need to move beyond it now. Living in such fear is too stressful for anyone though it doesn’t register as stress because I am so used to it. But, I do feel the relief, the release of stress, with each new thing that puts another piece in my puzzle or turns on another light bulb. Anyway, all this to say I am very grateful for my learning here, and the opportunity to do so.

          2. lickemtomorrow says:

            AV, I like the idea of reverse learning with HG. You’ve jumped right in and are accruing all the benefits. Kudos to you for doing that. Many of us have held back for a variety of reasons, not least because the trust is gone. Or we don’t want to expose ourselves again. It’s very encouraging to read all the positive elements you help bring to the fore.

            I also really appreciate you tagging me in this comment with regard to what you perceived as your recent ‘failure’. Thank you so much for highlighting how both you and HG handled that situation. I think a lot of us could identify with your sense of distress at having missed the nominated time for the call and also the subsequent beating yourself up over it. This is where the reverse learning you were speaking about can really make a difference. And it obviously did. Importantly, you were able to accept HGs reassurances on the matter. It can be hard for some people to do that, but the fact you were open to allowing that to happen is a real sign of progress to me. Sometimes we just need one person to create that opportunity for us, at the same time we still need to take hold of it. So making those things ‘first nature’ is a great place to be in your thinking.

            I really appreciate your explanation, and ultimately HGs ability in helping you to get there, with regard to failure and its implications. We so often feel it is the end of the world. Because often that is how we have been made to feel. So, we give up, turn away, refuse to take a chance on engaging again. It’s good to know there is an alternative route and one we are able to take if we just allow ourselves to do that.

          3. A Victor says:

            LET, well, I do have a lot more fears than I thought before I arrived here but apparently fear of a narcissistic psychopath is not among them. Or, I didn’t really comprehend what that meant, even though I have watched every episode of Criminal Minds. Or, my need for answers off-set any hesitation and then once I spoke with him, any concern went away immediately. Probably a combination. Anyway, he is delightful. My trust with my ex and TTU is gone, long gone, but HG is not my ex or TTU so that never even occurred to me. I just saw that he was the one with the answers and knew that was where I needed to go.

            HG didn’t reassure really, there was only a tiny bit of that, but instead what he did was use it to teach me to go to the evidence. I won’t say more, I hope that much is okay, but that lesson was essential for my learning. He is a fantastic teacher. Had he not walked me through that process, I likely would not have accepted any reassurances. But with going through the steps, there was no reason to continue to be concerned, it was very logical. Now it is putting those steps into practice as often as I can so that they become my go to.

            Now I have to go find a comment you put on the Pink Pill Interview, I think, there is something there to address as well, can’t remember it though. 🙂

          4. lickemtomorrow says:

            AV, your first paragraph made me laugh, and lol to no fear of a narcissistic psychopath here 😛 I was also a Criminal Minds afficiondo 🙂 I can understand the need for answers and how that offset any hesitation. And HG is not our narcissist/s. But maybe that’s where the hesitation comes in for me. In many ways HG is my narcissist, in the sense he is the embodiment of those who have come before. I’ve probably approached my time here from a different perspective. And in some ways let that hold me back. But, I like your perspective, and I can see all the gains you are making because of it <3

            Thank you for sharing again, and for pointing out what HG pointed out to you and the need to go to the evidence. I would agree he is a fantastic teacher and being walked through the process obviously made the learning much more effective. I really hope you can put those steps into practice to help take away any remaining concerns.

            Your comments here have been very encouraging and inspiring, AV. Thanks xox

          5. A Victor says:

            LET, another thought that came to mind after I wrote my previous comment is that I have been away from the most damaging romantic narcissist I had in my life for a very long time. I think that may have allowed any fear or connection in my mind between him and HG to dissipate. If the relationship was more recent, that may have made a big difference in my ability/desire to interact with HG directly.

            Also, I would say that of all my narcissists, HG is the most like my father, who happened to be the “highest” on the narc ladder, so to speak, who has been in my life. And so I think he being “closer” to Greater/Ultra, they are the most similar. That said, I had the least negative relationship with my dad of my three main narcs, so though some things have been difficult to address because of that correlation, the failure for example, much of what I need to sort out is from my other two main narcs, who do not strike me as similar to HG. In fact, the reason the failure one affected me so powerfully was because of the connection between HG and my dad, in my mind. I don’t worry about failure with my mother (no sense even trying) and I didn’t with my ex. They were just different, and it was such a relief with my ex that I overlooked a lot of things I shouldn’t have in order to not have that specific pressure on me any more, he was just so ‘laid-back’. My dad’s pressure was intense, immense and worse in a way than many things my mother does. She’s yucky, she can be mean, she’s whatever, but the stress from her is much easier to deal with, especially now that I understand what she is. I don’t know if I’m making sense.

            One other thought, I have both intentionally and unintentionally avoided much of the negative that HG has done in his private life. After I came across Spanked early on and was so profoundly affected by that, I did not search out such again. It comes up here and there and I chose whether or not I want to go there. Having done so with DC has possibly helped though I didn’t see that as “abuse” at first. It seemed like more of a trade-off being made. I have had to learn what abuse actually is.
            Anyway, not knowing a lot about HG with regard to his conduct in his private life has made him less frightening to me also and allowed me the time I need for that to unfold without trauma to me.

            Thank you for our chats LET, I always learn from them and enjoy them. 🙂

          6. lickemtomorrow says:

            Thank you for sharing more of your thoughts, AV <3. I see this one has us both thinking a lot about our reasoning and the impact of a personal consultation. I can totally see how having a different take on your father's machinations via HG would be very helpful and healing for you. The fact there are similarities, but this time you get on the right side of the equation in helping you to deal with those. I hope I have understood that correctly. And the narcs we have dealt with can all be very different.

            I seem to remember you being focused on your mother being a narcissist when you arrived here, as well as the summer narc, and only later coming to the understanding about your father and ex-husband as you became more knowledgeable. Correct me if I'm wrong, AV. That is much how I came to conclusions in my own situation as well. My mother, my most recent narc, then the similarities between my mother and ex-husband weighed in, before finally I began to see my father was likely to have been a narc as well, and that I was also possibly his NIPPS. The puzzle pieces began to fit together. More so than they ever have before. But, find one narc and you'll always find more seems to be the case. And often we'll have believed one or the other or none of them were narcs to begin with. You've come a long way since the beginning, AV, and your growth is so obvious as well as encouraging.

            I apologize if you felt you had to explain your reasoning around the consults, but I know I've appreciated the input you've given, which I hope will be encouraging to others also. I have my own unique perspective that shouldn't impact on anyone else. We're all coming from different places and experiences, and the word on consults is always extremely positive. Like I mentioned here or elsewhere (can't remember now) there was one of HGs clients who put his consult up on YouTube … which I'm sure he shouldn't have done … but it actually gave an insight into how HG conducts himself and I was more than impressed. I'm sure HG never knows what is going to come up, but he handled it like a true pro and was always able to bring it back to where it needed to be with the focus on narcissism and how that operates. Just FYI, I'm pretty sure that video has been taken down on YT, in case anyone was wondering!

            I don't think much about HG and his private life 😛 He's given us some juicy insight, and DC allows us into the more toxic elements of his imagination at times (I find it helpful to understand), but I don't dwell on those things. I don't think I realized what an impact "Spanked" had on you, although you seem to have found a nice balance, AV. For me that's what it's all about. I accept HG is who he is on a certain level, I take what I need from his work, and I value his willingness to share. I have added a consult to my bucket list as I see it as a unique opportunity to interact, but my reasons for doing so would probably be different. It would still be about narcissism and that is the main thing 🙂

            I appreciate your kind words once again, AV, and thank you in return <3 I've enjoyed so much your various interactions here and the insight they always provide xox

          7. HG Tudor says:

            Whoever put their consultation on YouTube breached the confidentiality provisions. This is more for your benefit than mine, since it is your lives that are being discussed. All it will do is showcase the depth and efficacy of my knowledge and, as you identify, my professionalism.

          8. lickemtomorrow says:

            Indeed it did display exactly what you say, HG.

            The depth and efficacy of your knowledge, your professionalism and your patience to boot!

            I have no fear in that sense.

            And I would not mention it if I thought the video was still available. I was actually a bit taken aback at the fact it was listed as an “interview” on YT when it was actually a “consult”. I didn’t know about the contract.

          9. Asp Emp says:

            HG, I am saddened to read that it happened. I decided a long time ago that if I were to have any of the EDC / TDC / private consults – I wouldn’t even share with people outside this blog (ie my friends), nor share anything about my consultations without discussing it with yourself. Brilliant comment by the way, HG.

          10. A Victor says:

            LET, I hope you didn’t feel I was pushing in any way, that would never be my desire. Only sharing my experience. I apologize if it did come across that way. I have been surprised by the number of frequent posters here who have not done a consult, I literally thought all of you had and I was delayed in doing so having waited until I did!

            Yes, I arrived due to the obvious summer narc, identified my mother quite quickly and it has been surprising to me how many people in my real life have also not been surprised. I odd course don’t discuss the NDC with them, just that she is a narcissist. When I was able to see things that meant my ex could be one also, I finally had a NDC done on him, also the SN at that time just for my education really. And finally my dad. He was the hardest for me to accept though I pretty much knew before I sent it in. He was the last holdout that someone significant in my life, excluding children and grandchildren, had actually loved me. So that one was tough. But again, much real life confirmation on both he and my ex, based on their behaviors. I didn’t need the confirmation, it actually surprised me a bit, but it was nice. It means I have more support doing the work I am here.

            You do understand my thoughts about coming to tendterms withmy dad via my interaction with HG. I have to somehow get out from under the powerful emotional grip my dad left me with. He never really knew me, any more than my mother does or my ex did, but he was the one I most wanted to please. And that can still be a burden though less so with his illness and death. It ssurprises me at times though and I want to get past that.

            I don’t think about HG’s private life much either, specifically any negative aspect. Well, or the positive really either. That is why Instagram is difficult. I accept he’s a human who lives as I do in many respects but has a different mindset as he does whatever he does. And I leave it there mostly. Coming to understand the different ways we can be abused has been one of the biggest things for me. That and that I’m an empath and these people were narcissists. If I understood nothing else, those three things would be enough. I am glad to fill in the learning beyond that of course but just knowing this things has calmed me and made me know I haven’t been crazy for wondering why my life was so difficult.

            Anyway, no pressure intended. Thank you again. 💕

          11. lickemtomorrow says:

            AV, no apology necessary.

            And I can understand the idea of the holdout.

            I also agree that knowing those three things would be enough.

            <3 xox

          12. A Victor says:

            Missed this piece, no I did not feel I had to explain my thought process, I was glad to have an opportunity to do so, for my own reasons really. Putting my thoughts down like this, for me, helps me put those thoughts away, they’re done and I can move on. That’s all, it wouldn’t even matter if no one read them, honestly I don’t expect people to since we all have our own thought processes and conclusions. But it gets them out of my head. Lol, you were just my ‘victim’ this time, sorry!! 😂 But, that said, I do appreciate feedback if someone has some and I always appreciate yours!

          13. lickemtomorrow says:

            I completely understand, and don’t feel like your ‘victim’, AV 😉 Far from, and my thought was only to say how much I appreciate your sharing which helps to enlighten us all. I also find putting my thoughts down here helpful and cathartic. It’s what I’ve always enjoyed about this site and what it has to offer. I took the “vent your spleen” seriously from the very start. And I’ve been venting in one way or another ever since 😛 It’s probably been one of my main requirements up to now. The need to express myself. To get it all out. And like you said, no one even needs to be listening. The Universe can take care of it. Feedback is nice, though, and many times I’ve wanted to respond to different people’s comments, but just don’t have the capacity. I wish I did. I do feel I need to respond to the comments directed to me, and enjoy adding further clarification to my thought processes. So, AV, I always appreciate you sharing yours, too <3

Vent Your Spleen! (Please see the Rules in Formal Info)

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.

Previous article

The Empath´s Riposte Grenades