Eyes Wide Shut



Will you ever recognise me as I walk towards you, rictus grin fixed across my face, eyes ablaze with love, passion and desire? Will you notice the way I keep you in my sights as my charm flows over you, seeping into your every pore and orifice?

Will you take heed of the sugar-coated words as they spill from my mouth, telling you so remarkably all the things that you want to hear? Will you take note of the phrases which have been recycled again and again and possess the novelty of a cliché? Will you look deep into my eyes and see past your reflection or will you remain transfixed by what shines in these dulled, dark eyes?

Will you question how is it that I know so much about you, where you live, where you work, your hobbies and your hates? Will you feel the chill down your spine as I appear once again without warning at a location you frequent or will you regard it as the tingling sensation of excitement and the thrill of my alluring personality?

Will you question the platitudes that I issue, like confetti sprinkled on the breeze or will you smile and nod and savour the warmth that rises within you as I tell you how wonderful you are and that we belong together?

Will you frown at my declaration of love within a day and a night and a day of meeting you or will you accept and swallow those carefully crafted words without a moment’s consideration? Will you wonder how my hands and mouth became so skilled or will you submit to their heady application and give breathless thanks that they are laid upon you?

Will you query how this golden light continues to shine and wonder why you were chosen above all the others? Will you see through the veneer of scathing hatred for those who have gone before you or will you become co-conspirator and sneer at her or at him, disgusted by their lack of dignity in the way that they behave?

Will you not ask yourself whether their words ring with truth and why they look as if their very essence has been sucked from them, leaving naught but a fractured shell? Will you wonder why the gifts keep on coming? Will you question the forbidden fruits that have been laid before you or will you gorge on them, delirious with desire and elated by the ecstasy of our largesse?

Will you recognise me when I turn my face from you when you try to kiss me? Will you know what is happening when you are left in a tearful heap on the floor for the third time in a week or will you flagellate yourself for your shortcomings? Will you notice as the triangles are weaved around you and your best friend becomes your supposed enemy, but by whose say so?

Will you fight back against the control that is exerted on the way you look, what you choose to do and who you interact with or will you accept it and allow your sense of self to evaporate? Will you understand what is happening to you as you crawl alone into that ice-cold bed, this once haven of sexual congress that now lies like an empty tomb ? Will you realise what is going on as you blink back tears as the clock shows 3am and you have no idea where I am?

Will you stand up for yourself when you are labelled whore, slattern, idiot and fool or will you bow your head and retreat, thankful that your injuries are only verbal. This time. Will you remember what you once were ? Will you remain bound by the chains of confusion or will you break them across your knee and free yourself from your cruel bondage?

Will you recognise me as my hand grips your throat and my bile-infused words rain down on you, spittle flecked hatred peppering your face? Will you dial my number for the fiftieth time in two hours as you desperately try to hear my voice and ask me, beg me, plead for me to come home?

Will you wince as another dinner set falls prey to my savage fury ? Will you kneel and pick up the pieces, fingers shaking as you fumble for the broken shards that lie scattered across the floor? Will you know what is being systematically done to you each and every day or will you obscure the reality by praying for that golden light to come back and dispel the darkness?

Will you recognise me for what I truly am or will you make yet another excuse, wondering what will happen when you run dry of the excuses and hastily constructed explanations for my reign of terror?

Will you recognise me as I cast you aside, shoved into the dirt and sneered at? Will you look up from the smouldering ruins of what we once had and see her (or is it you?) looking back at you with disdain writ large across her made-up features? She seems so familiar, do you know her, there is such a fog now and it clouds so much.

Will you understand why you have been forgotten about as your numbed fingers compose another searching e-mail, asking for explanations that will not come, expressing tearful anger that will be smiled at, detailing your abject hurt which will only ever receive a dismissive shrug?

Will you recognise me for what I am when I reach out a hand and lift you from your broken existence? Will you know what truly is going to happen as I lead you once more towards the brilliant, burning golden light?

Will you feel the prick of caution in your mind or will you gladly race towards the promised land once again, concern and hesitation thrown to one side?

Will you notice the rictus grin once again as you race ahead of me?

Will you pay attention to the darkened glint in my baleful gaze or will you charge headlong towards the paradise,  addicted to its warmth and glorious sensations?

Will you recognise me as I close the door behind us, bolt it and turn the heavy iron key in the lock as the thick drapes are pulled across the dirt-smeared windows?

Will you notice the sharpened dagger that I have produced and hold behind my back?

Will you stop and glance in the shattered mirror that dominates this place and if you do, will you recognise yourself?

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124 thoughts on “Eyes Wide Shut

  1. Duchessbea says:

    Seriously Ladies, reading through all the comments here. Moan, bitch, whine. How HG Tudor puts up with this self indulgent whine, I do not know. Every male and female narcs does not care what you look like, dress like, act like etc. etc. So long as residual benefits i.e. a good rider in bed and feeding fuel. Don’t need anything else. Not interested in your problems. Someone miffed you. Who cares. Get over it. You are an adult. Act like it. Your man HG has better things to be doing than doling out advice to a bunch of whingebags. Grow up and get a life.

    1. Violetta says:

      “Your man HG has better things to be doing than doling out advice to a bunch of whingebags.”

      Very likely, but since he chooses to dole it out anyway, I’ll be reading it.

      1. BC30 says:


        (This is not against you or your comment Violetta. I just had to vent against about all the recent discord caused on various articles over the past few days.)

        1. Violetta says:

          Understood. Don’t leave food out on the beach: just attracts seagulls.


          1. Witch says:

            this reminded me of an article my sister sent me about this man who strangled a seagull for trying to steal his food and my sister said “I’m not saying it’s right but I understand”

          2. Asp Emp says:

            Witch, that is funny. Bet the seagull was crapping itself, oh dear….. more mess……. Thanks for making me laugh.

          3. Violetta says:

            The real problem with seagulls isn’t the food going /in.

          4. Witch says:


            Now I’m reminded of a funny video I saw of a seagull stealing a sandwich from a supermarket and he managed to leave the shop… then a woman who doesn’t even work there tries to take the sandwich away from him.. like why would anyone try and sabotage a seagulls hustle?? Was she jobless?? Let him live!

          5. Asp Emp says:

            Witch, I understand your point. Yes, they are wildlife and protected.

            In my view, seagulls are rats with wings. Seagulls are dangerous to people and do not think twice, even if someone’s eye was poked out simply because the seagull wants that person’s food. They scratch cars when hassling people for food in car parks, even when people are in their car.

            A baby seagull flew into my car when I was driving it – then it was flying around the back of my car – I had to pull in where I could safely, before opening the passenger window so it could fly out again. I could have caused an accident, other cars, or people getting hurt because of a seagull!

            My experience as a one-off was one too many.

        2. Eternity says:

          Hi BC30,
          I agree with you honestly,
          Nothing against anyone but after awhile it does get rather ridiculous. Everyone is entitled to their opinions I respect them all.
          Patios are open here now off to a night out !

          1. BC30 says:

            Woo hoo! Hope you had fun! It’s too cloudy for the patio here.

          2. Eternity says:

            Yes, it was so much fun we had a blast! Thanks for asking. Hope the sun comes out soon. We all need more sunshine in our lives than cloudy ones.

        3. Duchessbea says:

          Violetta & BC30,
          I understand you are both insulted and annoyed at the above comment. I apologise to both of you.
          I’m reading through as many messages, afraid of what I’m going to read next.
          But I am apologising to everyone for offence and hurt that was caused here.
          Best DB.

  2. mollyb5 says:

    @empath007 You are acting fake with her , you are controlling your emotions and knowing what’s for the best. That’s maturity and you’ve learned how to be there for a friend without getting into bagging on her husband. There is a lot more very scary details that happened after that but more than I want to share on this post. I was eventually told by another neighbor woman ( who I respect a lot to this day she cleans my teeth & daughters ) she opened my eyes to how the narc goes about offering his help to women. ( skilled carpenter) I just wanted for women to help each other out . It can be done tactfully and sensitively that it can make a big difference . One just can’t be attached to the outcome of what a woman chooses to do with the information . Men help each other out a lot .

    1. mollyb5 says:

      Oops I reread 🙁 I meant NOT acting Fake !

    2. Empath007 says:

      Thanks Molly. That is helpful to read as it
      Can be hard to know exactly how to respond.

  3. mollyb5 says:

    HG .. maybe people should have lie detector machines tests before they get married ? That would be a money maker of a business!!

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Won’t help.

      1. Asp Emp says:

        Exactly. Only because a narcissist would be speaking from their perspective and so the detector would not know the difference – it would only see the narcissist as telling the truth.

        1. JB says:

          Good point, Asp Emp and MP!

          1. Asp Emp says:

            JB, HG’s NDC is the only answer in this age and day in the world of technology.

      2. JB says:

        How come? Can a narcissist successfully evade a lie detector test?

        1. A Victor says:

          I bet they can, they’re very practiced at it and also they think they’re telling the truth.

          1. JB says:

            AV, yes, this makes sense to me. Wish I could be better at lying, I’m crap at it! I even struggle with keeping the whole Santa thing going! 😂

          2. A Victor says:

            JB, your comment made me laugh! Why do you want to be good at it!! I can do it if I absolutely have no other choice but it takes a tremendous amount of thought and effort and even then may prove unsuccessful. One those few occasions where I have been successful, it has usually been with my children and they are always surprised to find it out later, that I actually pulled it off. At Christmas I don’t even try, I just say “It’s Christmas, my lips are sealed.” End of discussion, they know it’s no use. But, no lying has to happen, haha.

          3. BC30 says:

            It’s a paradox. Requiring a lie detector means we are aware. When we were unaware, we wouldn’t have believed the narcissist is a narcissist, regardless of the lie detector results. Hopefully, once one is aware ensnarement can be avoided–the addiction quelled.

          4. A Victor says:

            HG will be my lie detector I think. Okay, that made me giggle. 🙂

          5. JB says:

            AV, I don’t know really! Just sometimes think I am at a disadvantage by being so honest. Kind of leaves you a bit open, I think..

          6. A Victor says:

            Well, as long as you aren’t ignoring reality, being open is a good thing I think. People know they can trust you.

          7. JB says:

            AV, true, they can. I guess that’s not a bad thing. I just need to change that mindset of mine that if you are open and honest with someone, they will reciprocate. I never considered myself naive before, but I clearly was a bit to think that! Caution is the order of the day from now on!

          8. A Victor says:

            I am very gullible in certain situations, mostly involving narcissistic men. And I guess that’s the biggest time that would be a problem, the rest of the time I don’t worry about it really. Narcissistic women could be a problem but I think most of them annoy me and I don’t interact with them much. But I suppose if I am open and honest with someone I will presume they will be in return until I know something different, just because that is how the world functions. And, if I were to find out later something different, then I know what to do. I do see the sense in ensuring ahead that the person I am interacting with is not a narcissist if it is a potential romantic situation.

          9. JB says:

            AV, I have noticed since learning about narcissism that I am not usually drawn to friendships with narcissistic females. But it’s another matter when it comes to men! Luckily they are easier to spot now, so I can avoid them more than before!

          10. Asp Emp says:

            JB, it is really uncanny reading your comment. This morning, I was thinking exactly along similar lines in relation to female narcissists. Maybe it’s connected to mother, so it is almost like a gag reflex sensation or my instincts saying ‘nah, forget this female – too much trouble’.

            Having said that, there is a difference between males (intimate relationships) and females (friendships) = OMG, a female appeared jealous that I was not giving her the fuel because I was giving it to the MR – the ‘triangle’ were all having a chat / coffee break. I can laugh at that now.

            I suppose what I am saying is, (in my view) that female narcissists can be really really maliciously catty, towards empaths (male or female). I’ve seen similar in my friends when we were a lot younger. I’m laughing here.

            I have no fear, prepared for come what may in the future.

        2. Alexissmith2016 says:

          From the little I understand JB a narc is not able to evade a lie detector but a psychopath can.

          1. A Victor says:

            Huh, must be down to BC30’s observation that we wouldn’t listen then. Interesting.

          2. Violetta says:

            The lower-functioning ones don’t know they’re lying, so no change in pulse rate. The higher-functioning ones don’t experience guilt or fear of being caught, so no change in pulse rate.

          3. JB says:

            No idea, Alexis! It’s fascinating though. HG, what are your thoughts on this? Do you believe it to be the case that a narcissist cannot evade a lie detector test, but a psychopath can? Others have suggested that because the narcissist believes his truth to be the truth, that it is possible for the lie detector to return a not lying result; that made a lot of sense to me, but I don’t know if that is the case in reality?

          4. BC30 says:

            We use them for my work. They are not inherently reliable, but results can be persuasive. Narcissists wouldn’t register if they believe the lies are truth.

            Surely, a psychopath who is knowingly lying could evade detection.

        3. MP says:

          JB, I looked up famous criminals who passed lie detector tests and they are serial killers and spies. So I think AS is right, the psychopaths are the ones that pass it. Sociopaths and regular narcissists are haphazard and I don’t think they would be able to get a job at the CIA or as a spy because they have to be really calculating to do that which only psychopaths can be that organized and disciplined. Ted Bundy is in the list of those that passed it.

          1. JB says:

            So bit pointless doing it really, if it’s that open to error, and can be evaded by the people you would most want to be warned about!

            All this talk of lie detector tests reminds me of Jeremy Kyle! 😂

          2. MP says:

            JB, Apparently there was even a tragic case where the guilty person passed the lie detector test and the innocent person failed and went to jail. Yikes!

          3. JB says:

            MP, now that would be me! (the innocent one) – I could see myself being so worried that it may register that I am lying when I am not, that it may actually do just that!

          4. MP says:

            It is scary. That might be me too. How could we even know. 😬

            From my reading because of this thread, I have read a story about a psychopath Mark Hoffman who seems like a really smart guy explaining about how he was able to pass the lie detector test. He said that he had a lot of practice with altering his biofeedback , hypnosis and he was able to split his personality into two whereby one personality knew he was lying and the other personality was the one taking the test believed himself to be innocent. He is obviously an aware narcissist so he was aware that he was lying so splitting his personality into two was probably necessary. I thought that was pretty interesting.

          5. JB says:

            MP, the Mark Hoffman stuff, blimey! I can’t imagine going to that level of effort to mislead someone on anything! It’s eye-opening, and more than a little scary!

        4. Leigh says:

          I think a narcissist would be able to evade a lie detector test for the simple reason that they think they are telling the truth. They believe their own delusions. In order to be effective, they have to believe the delusion. So, if they think they are telling the truth, there’s no physiological changes to monitor. They don’t get nervous or anxious because they are telling the truth.

          1. HG Tudor says:


          2. Alexissmith2016 says:

            Thanks for confirming HG, so does this mean that when we may have seen the occasional clip of JK that these people were not narcs when they were found guilty on his lie detectors?
            So all those found innocent were the narcs and the guilty ones non narcs?

          3. BC30 says:

            For purposes of a lie detecter… I recall a time that I called out one of MMR’s biggest lies. For a few seconds he looked really, really fucking scared– but just a few seconds.

            Then, he immediately shifted to the Twin Lines of Defense and was SO FUCKING BELIEVABLE that I fell for his lies. I can’t say what we were really discussing, but it was a topic that I didn’t think anybody would lie about because nobody lies about CHICKENS OF AUTHENTICITY!!! 🐥🐥🐥 😂

            I had found evidence of the chickens– some eggs, some hay, and feathers, but he swore up and down with an Oscar-worthy performance that he didn’t have any chickens. But he did. He had chickens.

            Post-escape I confirmed he had chickens all along. He would have passed a lie detector, but there would have been a little blip at the beginning when he knew he’d been caught and hadn’t yet shifted to the Twin Lines of Defense.

          4. Leigh says:

            BC30, with workplace narc I found evidence of the chickens also and when I asked him about it, he had the same reaction as your MMR. Scared, then mad, then lies. I believed him as well.

          5. NarcAngel says:

            I think anyone would understandably be ruffled by the gaslighting and lies of chicken ownership.

      3. BC30 says:

        Even if the lie detector were effective, the empath is likely too smitten to heed warning.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Valid observation.

        2. JB says:

          Ooh no, BC30, I think I would really think twice, if I had insisted on that as some kind of pre-relationship, check he’s not a narc measure! Otherwise what is the point in doing it in the first place, if you aren’t going to listen to the result? Mind you, what is the point in doing it anyway; doesn’t exactly start the relationship off well!

          1. MP says:

            Hello JB, That’s the thing. I don’t think that most Empaths would be able to ask someone they already care about to take a lie detector test. That’s even worse than asking for a prenup. At least with a prenup you can say that you don’t want to offend or hurt your kids or you are obligated to protect your family business that has been passed on to you from generations ago, there can be many logical alibis. But what can be a good alibi for asking for a lie detector test except it indicates you are suspicious of them. If there’s no trust then why even bother to be in a relationship? I think it’s just best to learn about the red flags on patterns of behaviors and the person’s history. Was the guy a womanizer? Were the relationships short lived? Is there a presence of weird friendships from the opposite sex? How fast is the courtship progressing? Is there an unnatural progression and love bombing? I think those are more reliable and subtle than a lie detector test. HG’s has books on Red Flags. It’s best to study these before even starting to date. So when you start to date, you don’t even have to be suspicious of the person. If the red flags start popping out so many times then you can also double check with a Narc Detector consult.

          2. MP says:

            * I meant, you don’t have to go on dates with a suspicious attitude like you’re a detective. When you understand the red flags by heart and understand the differences of someone with empathy and those with none, you can just date like normal and if there are red flags, you are going to naturally notice them and then you can investigate more on what other red flags are present and then do a ND consult if you are still unsure.

          3. NarcAngel says:

            Good point. One does not have to become jaded or enter relationships (of any kind) with suspicion (if you are looking, you can almost always find something), but pay attention to how you feel. Note any flags (write them down if you have to because the mind has a tendency to play things down over time) and if they start to collect and make you unsure, absolutely do the Detector.

          4. JB says:

            Exactly, MP. I wouldn’t do it. If I found myself single again, I would just look out for red flags and then go from there. Otherwise, what’s the point?

    2. MP says:

      HG said narcs believe their lies. That’s probably why some of them have passed lie detector tests even though evidence strongly points against them.

    3. MP says:

      Also during the golden period they really believe they’re smitten. If they’re unaware.

    4. Eternity says:

      Narcissists are just like the Neighborhood cat, you just can’t get rid of them.

  4. mollyb5 says:

    HG ..when a relationship is young and someone sees first hand deception and can give factual information to a person..if it’s said in a way “ I just want to worn you I saw and heard something that may hurt you ….it’s up to you what you do with this information I share but I’m doing out care for you ( and perhaps I would want the someone to tell me ) you supposed friend was with your partner when you were gone ..I saw this …that…and this etc . The thing is the man will deny it and say they are just …whatever ..and make it sound like it’s untrue etc . don’t like him etc …But …you never say unless u know for sure . We know for sure my brothers wife was with my other brother …my niece saw it . But ..nobody wants to ruin his marriage . And we do think he may have known about other times it’s happened. We do leave it up to my brother and I actually like his wife. So I won’t tell him . There are many other examples in my family. It’s like nobody wants to destroy anything or be the one to tattle . Why ?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Because people respect boundaries and they are invariably loathe to tell someone how they should live their lives. They also fall into the trap of thinking “it is between them and therefore it is not right for me to interfere” but there are instances where some involvement is absolutely required.

      1. Asp Emp says:

        Absolutely, HG. A good comment. Thank you for posting it.

      2. BC30 says:

        Nope, not me. If I love you, you’re gonna know. You may not hear it from me, but you’ll know.

        1. A Victor says:

          BC30, we would know we love you but would you comment that we should have coffee with you more frequently? Or that this type of flower would work better than the one I already chose and planted in my garden? Or that this type of discipline would be more effective on my child’s behavior. These are the types of comments that I have heard many many times from people over the years. And they don’t just say it once and leave it, they have pushed and expected me to jump on and go along in agreement. It’s as if they have thought that I have not considered the best flower for my soil, light and water situation. Or that my child rearing has been utterly left to chance. Your letting people know you love them is a far cry from this behavior, what you offer is a great thing!

          1. BC30 says:

            I never give child rearing advice because I’ve no experience, so what do I know? Nothing. (I like naps too much to have had littles. 😆)

            Sometimes we need to hear the heavy and hard stuff from a loved one, but I never press it, one and done. 💖

          2. A Victor says:

            Haha, BC30, that’s why they say “Nap when the child naps!” Hahaha, that is hilarious! We do need to know our limits!

            Yes, if someone is a loved one, it is much easier to hear hard stuff from them. And, if they love us, they will generally not push. I think many of the people that did that to me have been narcissists. Almost all women too.

      3. A Victor says:

        This is interesting. I have commented on other threads that many people in my life, from strangers to acquaintances to “friends” tell me how to live, it has happened with alarming frequency. This indicates that many of them have possibly been narcissists, if most people with empathy respect boundaries etc. That means I have bumped into a lot and they picked up on what I was much quicker than I did. That is a frightening thought.

    2. Alexissmith2016 says:

      Molly, pre knowledge I would absolutely have told someone If they were a friend. Post knowledge I weigh up every situation, are they the sort of person to listen and act, are they the sort of person who would not listen, would listen?
      There are a small percentage who Act immediately If there is no likelihood of them acting now or in the future I well and truly refrain from saying anything. If uou say something, they may well stay and resent you for having said anything, if you say something abs they do leave unless they’re open to eduction then they will leave but find someone of a similar ilk. If they’re open to education there is a chance, just a chance they may move on eventually to something better.
      I’d they ask me whether I know anything, I would tell them no matter which group they fall into.

  5. BC30 says:

    I’m fairly certain my newest prospect is a narcissist. Maybe. Maybe there are red flags. Maybe it’s me.

    First, he was taking a job out of town. Maybe. Then he said his new place has a pool and hot tub. Pics of him driving flash cars. Gave me his number, which I ignored. Then sent a list of his favorite bands in the genre I mentioned. Hmm. I see it. 🤭

    1. A Victor says:

      Oh no, is this 12 year’s younger guy? Glad you see it if it’s there. Have you run it by HG?

      The comments on this thread are so awesome! We’re seeing things, we’re making pledges, our lives are improving and HG’s legacy is growing, it’s exciting!

      1. BC30 says:

        Oh no, no! “Ryan” is a sweetheart, and it’s a strictly sexual relationship. I suspect he’s actually an empath. I haven’t met this other guy, probably won’t. He’s suspect.

        1. A Victor says:

          Glad to hear that about Ryan. Glad you picked up on the other guy too.

        2. JB says:

          BC30, you are having a strictly sexual relationship with a guy 12 years younger, who is an empath? Wow, where did you meet him!

          1. BC30 says:

            I met him on an adult “dating” (X rated) site, but It took a tremendous amount of patience and a good amount of luck. Empaths probably make up a small fraction of people on the site, but now I know what we are and how to spot us.

            (I know HG wisely warns agains online dating, as it’s a narcissist hunting ground, but I am wary.)

        3. JB says:

          You’re lucky, BC30! I suppose it stands to reason that there will be a few good eggs on there. I have never been out with an empath (I am married, but think my husband is a normal), sounds nice!

          1. BC30 says:

            To be fair, it took 7 months. So, yes, a needle in a haystack!

        4. JB says:

          BC30, you certainly had a bit of luck there! Never been out with someone 12 years younger before! Mind you, thinking about it, I have never gone out with someone younger than me, ever!

      2. BC30 says:

        I blocked that other guy. Too many red flags. A pet name was the last straw.

        1. A Victor says:

          Good for you! Pet names are such a big indicator! I was the only one in my family to have one, it was from my dad. Then my ex called me one that I hated. The summer narc had 3 for me, two of which I didn’t like, the third was shared with his ex wife! Yes, pet names are now a big indicator for me also!

          1. BC30 says:

            It’s irksome. Baby, sexy, beautiful, gorgeous, etc. take a moment to find something to say other than complementing my appearance—if you’ve contacted me on OLD, it’s a given you find me attractive. Silly boys.

          2. A Victor says:

            Haha, so true!! Ditto with regard to height, hair, foods, ethnicity etc!! Way too basic!!

  6. mollyb5 says:

    And when you get home after the babies have died and you see people staring at you in pity …you won’t realize it’s because your man was fucking / getting serviced by them . You will think it’s because you lost your babies ? You’re hormones will be so messed up …you won’t understand they saw him with others or that they had a party and your man was drinking with all of them telling lies .

    1. A Victor says:

      Molly, I am so sorry you went through this. It is good that you are here now. Thank you for sharing it, it helps to know others have survived and grown stronge. This took a lot of courage to share.

  7. mollyb5 says:

    This wears me out and it did wear me out . Nobody really cares if you’re a cute , or pretty woman …with a narc man. He will flirt right behind your back , or when you happen to go anywhere like a hospital ! He will use the fact that you are in the hospital to get attention from other woman , girls , sisters and female neighbors . Oh …and they will feel sorry for “him”…. why because he tells them all he is paying all the bills on the home and he is working so hard to help the person in the hospital. Ohhh ….they will feel so sorry when they hear your twin girls are not going to make it and you are in the hospital for who knows how long. And he will cry …so stressfully. They will feel so sorry for himmmm. His charm and sad eyes and pouty lower lip and his comments about how he was building an armoire for his new baby. And he will tell all the girls how much money he makes but, it’s just never enough for his baby mommy. Oh , Oh …How he “allows”her to go to college while he works so hard but forgets to mention he owes the fed gov 16k and he hasn’t really paid any of the bills, and he is eating at bars every night and tipping waitresses 50 bucks and getting blow jobs from the upstairs chic who needs to buy some pot , oh … here have 100 bucks to get what you need. Thanks for the blow job. Don’t tell.
    You won’t find out ….because , the women never tell …they believe him . They keep the little secrets of how lousy you ( in the hospital are at giving blow jobs ..lie ) he will say whatever works for the other women to believe the baby momma in the hospital is a bitch and controls all the money. So he finally has “his”cash on him …so , here he is rich now and can give you whatever you need for that blow job . “Shhhhh our secret …you are so good …I wish I didn’t have to put up with baby momma in the fucking hospital , on bed rest …which means you can’t move and or can’t even take a shower or get up ( catheter) Oh …she’s such a pain in the ass. Nobody will know meaning I didn’t know … he’s saying this behind my back. Not one supposed friend told me ….not one. No woman wants to tell another woman their man is a fucking lame jerk.

    1. WhoCares says:


      After reading that, I just wanted to say I’m sorry.
      I am really sorry that you went through that.

      1. mollyb5 says:

        Thank you . It’s was long ago. And ..the way I found out was really strange . Life has lessons ..and I learned most the hard way. I feel I have learned and like to pass on some knowledge at times. But ,people will still take risks and do what they want ..even with a warning.

      2. mollyb5 says:

        Thank you . I didn’t know that was going on tell long time after . I would never of known. I now believe you don’t really know a person. People don’t share the bad , rarely. Unless, you’re in an AA meeting they tell a lot of stories . Or , an ACOA meeting or , an Alnon meeting . Hahaaa

    2. Witch says:

      Hi Molly
      I’m sorry to hear you went with such hell with this man and received a lack of support from those around you.
      I just want to let you know we are not all like that.
      I absolutely would tell my friend that her partner is cheating on her. I think some women are apprehensive about doing it because there are people who shoot the messenger and there are people who know their partner is cheating but they just don’t want anyone to bring it out.
      However I know I would want my friend to tell me so I would do the same.

      1. NarcAngel says:

        My mother-in-law told me that she hated the woman who told her that her husband was cheating. She said she knew that he was, but when it was actually brought to her attention that others knew (the woman told her that she was not alone in knowing), the expectation was that she would have to do something about it and she did not want to. That others had no business relating what they knew. She cut out those from her life she deemed as interfering in her personal business and eventually he left her for someone else.

        A case it seems for the lookers on of damned if you do and damned if you don’t (tell), so I understand why many don’t risk it.

        1. WhoCares says:


          “My mother-in-law told me that she hated the woman who told her that her husband was cheating.”


          Personally, I would want to be told. For me, that information would have been a deal breaker. (Possibly why my ex managed to hide to hide it so well that I never even suspected.)

          I really only realized there had to be infidelities when I arrived here and after putting two and two together with my Narcsite education. (And my suspicions were then confirmed by some strange bits of information shared via our son after some unsupervised child access visits.)

          It was pretty anticlimactic at that point; logic had taken hold.

          1. psychologyandworldaffairs says:

            It is strange I made a comment where I had not told a friend the guy she was seeing had asked me out. I think it depends on circumstances. In that case I knew from what she told me that when he said ‘it was just sex’ he had not lied as such.

            He keeping it an open relationship, had no baring on the fact my friend adored him and hoped for more. She knew – he was still going to her single events and chatting up women there.

            When she was ready to end it – I was there for her and I helped her get over the jerk. She did not need to know he had asked me out – wonder at how far it had gone. A previous so called friend had run off with a guy she was dating – so she had scars – very deep ones.

            Now knowing he was a narc – had he done it to create problems in our friendship? I was always telling her she could do better….I was her support.

            On the other hand were it my sister – knowing who she is and her strength of will haha I would have told her in a heartbeat. But than she would not let a guy treat her so badly if the first place 😉

        2. Witch says:


          Yes I do understand why someone wouldn’t want to take the risk.
          if you’re my close friend though or my sister…I’m telling you and however you respond to me is up to you.
          Most empathetic people acknowledge who was there for them at their worst and if they don’t, that’s their self-inflicted heartache.

        3. Empath007 says:

          I suppose it depends who’s relaying the message and what their intent in relaying the message is.

          If the intent is to gossip and feel superior – then I can understand being upset others knew and were trying to wedge their way into my personal life.

          If the intent is they love me and want what’s best for me – then I’d be more open to the conversation.

          I have a friend who’s currently in a messy situation in her marriage. I believe she may be with a narcissits but I dont know him well enough to really make that call. Truth be told it’s been hard not to fully express my opinion on him… but I care about her and our friendship and at the end of the day I have a better chance of it staying in tact if I don’t say much and let things play out as they will. Speaking against her husband will only backfire in my face – she too knows he’s with another woman but does not want to talk about it. So I respect that – when she does talk about it it takes every fibre of my being not to tear him to shreds… so I act fake… and try to get her to focus on what it is she really wants – and to feel confident with her own feelings.

          It’s tricky business… knowing other people’s business.

      2. mollyb5 says:

        Well thank you . That was 23 years ago. I just wanted to share one side of a narc nobody may see tell it’s too late. When the word narc wasn’t even a common word as today. Back when people didn’t have cell phones ( rare) back when taking selfie’s and Facebook really didn’t exist. But , it’s still hard when a person is in the middle of a relationship to know what’s going on behind their back. Unless you have a private investigator , real loyal friends , and people who actually care physically care about another’s future .

        1. Witch says:

          Have you thought about whether or not some of these “friends” were also narcissists?

          1. mollyb5 says:

            Well , I lived in an artsy area where my art school was located . These people are no longer in my life . I moved back to the suburbs . I became distracted with my life and continued on the adventure. I’m not innocent or naive anymore . I don’t care about those people. I choose my friends very carefully( if)I need one or two . I have beautiful grown children now. That past seems like a different person. I’m just now twenty some years later getting back into art.

          2. WhoCares says:


            “That past seems like a different person. I’m just now twenty some years later getting back into art.”

            That’s fantastic!

      3. mollyb5 says:

        I would always tell my sisters …I did when I was way younger than her. She said others had tried to tell her also ..she thought they were all jealous cause he was from a wealthy family. She eventually did see it . She was blind cause the money …and she also was messing around too.

        I would regard the person who tells another with such secret private information as a special friend …good detective , thank them. Tell them you don’t know what you’re going to do about it …but thank them for opening your eyes and making you aware and… not keeping you in the dark . tell them you will report back to them if they want to know what happens . tell them you will never tell anyone they told you . tell them thank you for looking out for you.

    3. BC30 says:

      I’m so sorry.

      I would’ve informed you, perhaps with proof, but anonymously.

    4. psychologyandworldaffairs says:

      My heart goes out to you and all you were put through …

    5. Jasmin says:

      It hurts so much when you find out.😢 I also wish that just anyone had told me. I would have told if the person is close to me.

  8. A Victor says:

    That first paragraph is what I saw in that guy at my church. Whether he us a narc or not, who knows. But seeing that and feeling my reaction to it at the time told me a lot. The fact that I have been able to think about it instead of just succumbing, as I would have in the past, makes me very happy and makes me feel empowered! If he is in fact a good guy, if anything is meant to be there, it can still happen. But I’m not holding my breath.

    1. MP says:

      I would say he is a narc. HG said that giving you a seductive or passionate stare is lack of boundary recognition. Unless of course there has already been a connection between you that is enough to establish such a stare.

      1. A Victor says:

        No connection whatsoever. I tend to agree, especially given the subsequent things, sitting behind me and huffing for example. I’ve only gone a handful of times as I don’t wish to deal with him, I am not in a good place for that right now. But another of the times I did go, dropping someone at the door under the carport, that guy sees me from just inside the door, I make no eye contact with him ever but sadly I am alert to him as he freaks me out, he comes out and stands right in front of my car and starts cleaning his sunglasses!! I couldn’t move the car until he finished and got out of my way! It was so weird. But I know that we are not supposed to make a judgment based on one or two things, we have to watch for a pattern. There may be one emerging, haha!

        1. MP says:

          Haha I am seeing a pattern too AV. I understand exactly what you mean about the uncomfortable energy and you having to break the eye contact. The handyman narc that I encountered gave me the prolonged up and down look with a self satisfied smile and when he saw my offended face it even made him laugh instead of worried that he offended me, the wife of the man who hired him. Prior to awareness, I started with being offended, but then it created an energy between us where I was so puzzled by him and made me think about him a lot and it ended up being an opening for him to do more behaviors that make me hyper-aware of him and so I developed attraction towards him which thankfully did lead to anything. Thankfully now that we know what they are doing we can remind ourselves to not take them seriously and know that they are not good news. Hugging behind you is a very weird and annoying thing. I had a classmate do that behind me when I attended some English as a second language classes at a junior college here in the US and I thought it was so weird like he sounded like he was huffing in a sexually suggestive way. I observed him and he didn’t do it when others are in front of him. Also he tended to choose the seat behind me whenever he can and he smiled when I looked at him to catch him huffing behind me. I have never seen or heard anybody behave like that until you shared your experience. Now I’m thinking that guy was probably a narc too.

          1. A Victor says:

            MP, yes, I think it’s anything to draw the attention they want. Even if it’s not socially “normal” behavior. Not that all would, like I can’t imagine HG “huffing” behind someone, haha-that makes me giggle! But for the lower echelon’s, odd stuff indeed!

          2. MP says:

            Haha HG has so much more tools he can use. He doesn’t have to lower himself to get attention. That visual got me laughing. 😂

        2. Leigh says:

          AV, just my thoughts here but he sounds like workplace narc. Run! Run as fast as you can, lol.

          MP says, “Prior to awareness, I started with being offended, but then it created an energy between us where I was so puzzled by him and made me think about him a lot and it ended up being an opening for him to do more behaviors that make me hyper-aware of him and so I developed attraction towards him.”

          The way MP describes it is how I got sucked in with workplace narc. I think “narcy church guy” wants you thinking about him and that’s why he keeps coming up on your radar but doesn’t say anything. Remember, with workplace narc, I had to make the first move. I think that’s what’s happening here with “narcy church guy”. That’s just my gut reaction though.

          Their lack of boundary recognition just irritates the hell out of me. He doesn’t care that he’s making you uncomfortable. All he cares about is you paying attention to him. Workplace narc would sit in his car and stare at me. He wouldn’t know that I saw him. I would never look that way but I knew he was there. They are creepy as hell!

          1. A Victor says:

            Yes, it is creepy. And if I were to give any eye contact, I feel he would take that as an opening, even if it’s inadvertent on my part. So I have to always know where he is so that doesn’t happen. I had forgotten that about how you had to make the first move, thank you.

          2. Leigh says:

            Can you go to church at a different time? I feel like once they set their sites on someone, they don’t let up. Its like they can’t help themselves. Once you come into their Sphere of Influence they have to control you. Even though you aren’t interacting with him, I think you’ve become one of his appliances and that means he has to control you in some way. Whether it be directly, indirectly or through withdrawal. By standing in front of your car, cleaning his sunglasses, he’s controlling you. My gut tells me, he will continue. He found himself a tasty little empath and he’s not giving that up.

          3. A Victor says:

            Hahaha, “tasty little empath” made me laugh! Yes, wow, I didn’t even connect that stupid sunglass incident with control, though it did control me. I considered honking but that would’ve been a contact so I didn’t, just waited and thought to myself “Asshole.” Ha.

            No, there is only one time to go. Maybe I’ll go somewhere else. I keep hoping he’ll show up with a different tasty little empath on his arm.

          4. Leigh says:

            I can’t take credit for “tasty little empath”, lol. I saw it somewhere on the blog and it stuck, lol.

          5. A Victor says:

            Oh, well, it is cute! Credit to whoever then! 🙂

      2. mollyb5 says:

        MP good advice. This is what the narc i know does. He stares at girls …and if they look back, he wants them to, he smiles seductively at them. He wants them to feel his stare. I know this from other discussions. He does it everywhere trying to get a woman’s attention back into himself . He would do it out eating , he would do it at ball games , bars , parties. Anytime some new friend I had brought around …he did it. I would question him and he would say ..” your crazy , i look at everyone , can’t go anywhere with you always accusing me of wanting someone else . I would only casually say, “ what are you looking at ? “. I eventually ignored it and walked way ahead of him so I wouldn’t see him do it . They never stop doing the stare . No matter where you are or who you are with. Unless he’s trying to impress someone at his table. If he’s ignored or bored with conversation or any break in conversation he will always look for someone else to stare at. Best to go places alone . 🙁

        1. A Victor says:

          Molly, you reminded me that TTU used the stare all the time too! It was intense, that the guy I was talking about, to draw your attention and command compliance! Interesting. Thank you!

          1. mollyb5 says:

            @ a victor
            I read it’s a genetic trait from ancestors to have gaze detection …it’s a trait to avoid becoming an animals prey. I have this trait.

        2. MP says:

          So sorry you had a horrible husband. What you said is so true. My Normal husband liked to look at me a lot before we started dating but oftentimes he got scared and looked away when I saw him looking at me. He didn’t give me the intense N stare and he never did the up and down look which is very suggestive and objectifying. I have also never seen him look at other women that is beyond normal look. I think you are right and the N stare is definitely a big indicator in my opinion.

      3. Empath007 says:

        H.G. is the seductive stare always indicative of a narcissist ? I have a new boss and he’s always checking me out… it’s not in the same super intense way the narc did. But it’s very obvious. He’s always looked me up and down like a tasty treat.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          It is an indicator but it is not determinative.

          1. Empath007 says:

            I’ve known him for a long time but have not worked directly with him in a number of years. He has always looked at me in a sexual way but never made a move per say …. he’s shown some indication of narcissistic traits… but I suspect if he actually is I will find out soon enough.

    2. MP says:

      Just my personal guess though.

  9. Asp Emp says:

    My learning and past experiences will serve me as a form of ‘protection’ against narcissists in the future. I will be more aware yet still need to remain ‘vigilant’, heed my ‘warning system’ and do not permit my ‘emotional thinking’ to be ‘conned’ by people who instinctively wear a ‘facade’ to ‘mask’ their narcissism. Use the logical thinking to guard the ET, remember the ‘Narcspeak’, watch out for ‘the abusive ex syndrome’ and other instinctively hidden ‘red flags’. Have the empath’s grenades to hand then Get Out and Stay Out.

    My ‘eyes are no longer wide shut’ and I am no longer ‘hypnotised’ by the influences of the narcissists of my past.

    An indirect message to the Narcissists of the future, be forewarned, you could be dealing with a weaponised empath.

    I am onto you.

  10. Fiddleress says:

    Wonderful article, and so beautifully written!
    It will be a resounding ‘yes’ to the first proposition of each question for me from now on; this is my pledge.

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