Love Bombing : If the Narcissist Was Honest


What if the unaware narcissist was made aware so they shared with you how they regarded you and their behaviour prior to the commencement of their love bombing of you? What if the aware narcissist decided they would share their thoughts and motivations about you, no longer seeing doing so as a transference of power? If they did, this would be the result.

Dear Victim,

There you sit. Soaked in innocence, drenched in unawareness, drowning in vulnerability. You are an empath. I can detect that. From the things that you say, the things that you do, the way you move, the way you interact with others, the manner of your gestures, the look in your eyes and the facial expressions that you make, you radiate as only the empath does. Great bubbles of honesty form on the surface of you and float upwards, arcing jets of the need for justice spray from you and decency shimmers about you like some ethereal cloak. I watch as the ripples of your caring nature sweep back and forth across you, beautiful display of what you are. The coils of your compassion emerge onto you and spiral upwards enveloping the fortunate recipient that you direct them towards. Your desire to heal and fix shines from you as if a magnificent light, sweeping around the world from you the lighthouse, banishing darkness and providing succour and support to those this ray of repair lands on. I see it all. These empathic traits and more besides are part of the empathic ecosystem and I am the predator that waits within this ecosystem, ready to take advantage of it.

I see the narcissistic traits too. The bubbling anger that resides beneath your cloak of decency, that cloak keeping your anger in check until it is permitted to make an appearance through the application of righteous annoyance. I sense the showcasing that you have, a glittering desire to be seen, but since it sits beneath your caring nature, it is only ever seen in its fair and entertaining application, never show stealing or vainglorious.

Your jealousy lurks, but trapped within those bubbles of honesty, save when one of those bubbles is pricked by an external force usually me and my abuse, albeit we are some distance away from that at this juncture.

No, this is that moment right before I commence my seduction of you. I say seduction as that sounds romantic but in reality, it is an invasion. You see, you are a nation state which has the resources which I need. My reconnaissance is at an early stage and I do not yet know whether you will become my Intimate Partner Primary Source (other half, wife, spouse, girlfriend ) or whether you will be an IPSS, either one which I will pick up and put down as and when I see fit and allow some access into my world, or one which I will keep tucked away in the shadows, there when I need a fresh injection of the fuel that I must have. What I do know is that you already belong to me. The moment I saw you meant that your fate was sealed, you became my property, all I must do now is invade you.

Will I spare you this invasion? No. I do not care at all for you. I have no emotional empathy whatsoever and therefore I will take what I need with no regard at all for the consequences for you. Will I invade you slowly and steadily, perhaps giving you a chance to work out whether this is right for you? No. This is an invasion. I must achieve your submission as fast as I can. You see, I cannot cope unless you are under my control and the possibility that you might threaten my control over you starts to weaken me, make me feel insignificant and powerless and that must never, ever happen. This means I have to achieve control over you so I can access your resources – your fuel, your character traits and your residual benefits – as quickly as possible.

Now, most invasions are a brutal display of force, battering the enemy into submission, destroying the opposition´s defences, shattering their infrastructure, terrifying their populaces and annihilating their armed forces with an impressive arsenal of destructive weapons. This invasion will be brutal in its speed, you will be battered into submission, I will overwhelm your defences, I will disable your support systems, I will occupy every inch of you, I will monopolise your time, I will isolate you from any interfering influences, I will harness your assets and make them mine to ensure that you are subjugated. I will not do this with terror however, I shall do so with love.

Well, I say love, truth be told, I have no idea how to love you. I have no emotional empathy remember which means that I am utterly unable to love you in the way that is best for you. Instead, what I am going to do is give you what I understand love to be (but actually isn´t) and thanks to my predecessor narcissists you have been conned into misunderstanding what love is. You see, love is actually premised on emotional empathy, that means respecting one another, having things in common, embracing the differences, being patient and supportive, taking time to know one another, to accept who you are and to be accepted for who one is, to share and to care, to listen and listen properly. This emotional empathy means recognising boundaries, it means never manipulating or abusing, it means working together and standing shoulder to shoulder when the world and it is a tough old world, throws what it does at you. It means not shirking responsibility, it means standing up and being counted, it means jealousy and envy are kept in check, there is fidelity and passion for one another. It is all in the doing and not the saying.

The problem with all of that is that I am not designed to do any of it, but I am designed to give you the impression that I am capable of doing it.

My invasion has three parts to it:-

  1. I will use the narcissistic narrative to dazzle you,
  2. I will use my powers of mimicry to make you think I have emotional empathy , and
  3. I will mirror yourself back at you.

All are based on fabrication – the fabrication of what love is, the fabrication of emotional empathy and the fabrication of what you think I am.

The first part is that my predecessor narcissists have become the architects of the ideal of love. All of that which I just described about how love is based on emotional empathy, well they effectively threw all of that out of the window because it is too slow, boring and will not lead to your swift submission. Accordingly, actually loving you through emotional empathy would be too slow and not give me the control I must desperately have over you. Instead, what allows you to be conquered within the blink of an eye is fabrication. I will flatter you, compliment you, adore you, admire you, swamp you with my infatuation. I will idealise you and put you on the highest pedestal. I will treasure you, covet you, showcase you, polish you up and present you. Notice what this all signifies, yes, you are an object to me, my object. You will not realise this though because I will drape you with the narcissistic narrative so you think what I am giving you is the most perfect, incredible love but it is not. It is an illusion. It is fakery.

I am going to become the romantic poets all rolled into one, I will be a stormtrooper of seduction, blitzkrieg you into submission through the application of the most amazing sex you have experienced, I will buy you gifts, I will introduce you to all my friends and family, I will propose marriage to you within weeks of meeting you, I will move into your house within a week of meeting you because “this feels so right”, I will tell you how scintillating you are compared to that horrible person I was with previously, I will tell you that nobody compares to you, that you are simply the best, that I don´t want to miss a thing, that love comes quickly, that all you need is love – do you see how my predecessors have already done the hard work? They are the song writers, the artists, the poets, the authors, the entertainers and the writers of Hallmark cards. My narcissist brethren have created a tapestry of what romantic love is and it is false. That is not love but you have become conditioned by film, book, poem and song to believe that it is and all I am going to do is wrap you in all of those things and make you feel like the only girl in the world. It will be breath taking, amazing, mind-blowing and dizzying. Your heart will race, your spirits will soar, you will have a spring in your step and a smile plastered on your face for weeks and months on end. All of this is called a golden period.

This golden period is given to you so I can invade you and occupy you in the shortest time possible and with maximum effect. Inside this golden period. I will also use the artifice of creating the impression that I also love you with emotional empathy. Alongside the fireworks, glitter and rainbows, I will give you glimpses of kindness and support. This is the second part of the invasion. This means my invasion is guaranteed to succeed. After I have used the narcissistic idea of love to dazzle you into submission and the second is to layer on that, the appearance of having emotional empathy. I am an expert at fakery. I have been designed so I can mimic what truly empathic people do, but I only do this for a short time, intermittently when I absolutely have to and of course entirely to make you mine. I will bring you chicken soup when you feel unwell, I will do the laundry, I will take the dog for a walk, I will tidy up, I will cook for you, I will listen to you talk about how difficult your boss is and offer suggestions as to how you deal with it. I actually do not give a flying fuck about any of those things, but I have to do them, so you think that I am that type of person. I need to give you the fireworks, so you think I am special and the fake empathy, so you think I am supportive and reliable.

Within all of this is the third part, the mirroring. You see, I actually do not exist, well I do, but that part of me is locked away and must never be seen. What I mean, is what you see, and experience does not exist, it is a shapeshifting fabrication which takes on whatever form is needed to conquer you. Sexual Olympian? No problem. Bon viveur? Absolutely. Pillar of the community? Easily done. Captain Success? Already to be deployed. Dr Caring? At your service madam. Loving father? Kind companion? Hilarious entertainer? Sports mad? Fashion conscious? Brain the size of Canada? Literary genius? Comicon enthusiast? Friends binge watcher? Dirty Dancing worshipper? Religious acolyte? Dedicated to the literary works of great American writers? Fly fisherman? Equestrian? Ten pin bowler? Check, check and check. I will become whatever is needed to win you over.


Everything about you will be mirrored back at you, the way you smile, the way you love, the things you like, and the things oyu dislike. What I show you is not me, good God no, what I show you is yourself. In the most brilliant of perversions, I make you fall in love with yourself. How narcissistic is that?!


So, none of it is genuine but you do not have to worry about that now because the best part is, you will not even notice. I am so good at this because I am designed to be this way and you are designed not to notice (thank you emotional thinking). Settle in and enjoy this golden period because it will be unlike anything you have ever experienced before. It is absolutely incredible, and you may as well enjoy it because it will be removed. Yes, I only need to give you the golden period to conquer you and to extract your resources and after that, well I will take it away and then the full horror is visited on you, but we do not need to go into that now. What you must do is enjoy this and I guarantee you will, it is beyond the highest high, this is more potent and more addictive than heroin.

So, there you sit, my crosshairs trained on you, the target on your heart all lit up and easy to see to one such as I. It is time to commence the seduction, time to love bomb you. Time to make you mine with the application of falsification, fakery and fabrication on an unprecedented scale.


Do I feel bad about this? Of course not. I simply do not care, but I will make it look like I do.


I am like the predator that has learned to mimic the firefly. I will flash and signal so you think I am ready to mate with and when you come flying to me, all eager and enraptured, I will ensnare you and later devour you as you offer no resistance, confused and dumbstruck as to how you fell for this.


It is all a big con. I am the love fraud and you are my victim.

133 thoughts on “Love Bombing : If the Narcissist Was Honest

  1. Bubbles says:

    Dear Mr Tudor,
    Came across this …..
    Karma says
    The wrong one will find you in peace and leave you in pieces
    The right one will find you in pieces and lead you to peace

    It’s Ironic that narcs can’t be honest and we can’t lie

    Excellent article, thank you
    Luv Bubbles xx 😘

    1. Leigh says:

      Dear Bubbles, I love this ❤❤❤ Thank you for sharing! 😀

      1. A Victor says:

        Hi Leigh, I have been missing you, I hope things are going well.

        1. Leigh says:

          Hi AV, I’m well. I’ve been busy at work lately so I don’t have a lot of time to post, LOL! I also think that wordpress isn’t working lately. I’m not getting notifications but when I look at the blog post, I see responses to my comments. Anyway, I did leave you a message on Does the Narcissist Think about you Afterwards. How was your vacation? I hope you enjoyed it. I saw you did the empath detector for your daughter. I’m glad she found this place so young. Hopefully she won’t have to endure what we’ve endured for so long. How’s your son? I hope he’s well too.

          1. A Victor says:

            Leigh, good to hear from you! My vacation was great! Had an opportunity to practice looking for red flags, had a job opportunity present itself, spent time with my son playing ping pong and other fun things. He is doing well, we’ve been working with some other people to get him back into life, and a good life, not one of avoidance. He said he’ll take the EDC also! And my oldest daughter did too! So those are both wins I am very excited about! Yes, my youngest being armed with the knowledge of her susceptibility to narcissists is very good. She has had us all concerned with her choices in men so now she has another tool to make better choices, should the need arise. She is living with her current boyfriend, I believe they plan to marry at some point, and I am happy, he does not give off red flags so far, in over a year.

            Besides work, how are you doing? Have you been able to make much progress with your planning? How are your kids? Are they thinking to go out on their own soon (I only ask because I know this is a concern of yours with regard to your plans)? I have never rushed my kids out, when the time was right, they went but they knew they always had a place here, within reason haha, should they need it. It is so hard for kids starting out now, much more difficult than when I was young, it is sad.

            I will check out the other thread for your message. I hope you have a great day!

          2. Leigh says:

            Hi AV, no new news. It’s really hard for me to make a move. I don’t why but change scares the crap out of me.

            My one daughter is working at her chosen profession but my other daughter just finished her associates in December. This was a tough year with COVID. She stayed working at her first job. She’s now stating to look to the future. She just got a job in her chosen profession. So to make a long story short, they aren’t quite ready to get there own place yet. Plus it’s very expensive where I live. Rent is off the charts.

            I’m glad to hear that your children are doing well too.

          3. Eternity says:

            Hi Leigh,
            How are ya?
            I need to be honest with you . You need to make the move sweetheart. I know that changes can scare the crap out of us, but you don’t deserve the crap with your Narcissist husband. It is really hard but not impossible. I did it and I also have kids. You can do it too. I felt the exact same way you did but I got out . I understand it feels difficult for you,but with baby steps you will make it ! Sorry , if I came on to strong ,but I just wanted to give you my personal experience.

          4. Leigh says:

            Hi Eternity, you don’t have to apologize. I need a good, swift kick in the ass. I don’t think you came off as strong. I know I need to leave. He sucks the life out of me. Lately he’s been using my car at night and then leaves the windows open. It makes me insane because the seats are wet because its either rained or its from the morning dew. I don’t say anything because I refuse to give him fuel. I then ask myself how much more of this can I take. I know I have to make the move. I don’t know why I can’t. Every day I get more and more mad at myself.

          5. A Victor says:

            Leigh, a lot of people are afraid of change. Oddly that’s one thing that didn’t scare me! I actually enjoy it. But I think it is more typical to be afraid of it. You will do whatever you need as you are ready, in your time. And that may mean any number of things, you will know what is right for you. Glad your girls are doing well. I love having mine around. Once they are adults it is (mostly) fun!

            Wow, just spent an hour and a half on the phone with my friend that is going through a divorce. She’d been to a therapist tonight and he told her that her soon to be ex is a narcissistic sociopath and a very dangerous man! He then described the husband’s behaviors to her! She couldn’t believe how accurate he was! It was an amazing conversation, things I’ve been trying to carefully put out there since I found narcsite, she’s finally heard! I’m super happy right now! It was such similar information to what HG teaches us, and presented in such a straightforward manner, that I asked her if her therapist has a deep voice with a British accent, jokingly of course. But it was nice to hear that the information she conveyed to me of what was said was accurate.

          6. Leigh says:

            AV, I’m glad to hear your friend found a therapist that actually understands narcissism. That will be a tremendous help, I’m sure.

            Sometimes I wonder if I actually do fear change or is it just me making another excuse. I don’t love him, my empathy for him is very low, so why can’t I leave? I know there’s some sort of addiction at play here but what am I addicted to? I’m not addicted to him. At least I don’t think I am.

          7. A Victor says:

            Leigh, I think it can be near impossible to effect change when we have a sense of obligation or responsibility. This is where I feel like I am at with my mother. And it does feel a bit like fear, fear for my future financial situation if I were to leave. I am really weighing if my health is worth the financial payoff in the event that I stay. I am able to do ANC most of the time and it is easier then but even that takes a toll as I feel a certain amount of guilt over doing it. And I wonder if NC were I to leave would be even worse in this regard. I am currently very envious of my siblings and yet I don’t feel either of them are very happy, I have felt until recently like I am the happiest of the three of us. You and I are in difficult situations with seemingly limited options, it is stressful just from that vantage point.

          8. Asp Emp says:

            AV, I hope you can reduce your ‘guilt’ where TTU is concerned. I can understand your fear RE: financial situation. Did you talk this through with the person you talked to RE: the house etc previously?

            ‘Sacrificing’ your health (emotional & mental) is NOT worth it, not in the longer term.

            Do you know if your siblings are like you, or narcissists? Maybe consider a chat with your children (who have had their EDC done) to ask their opinion RE: your siblings? Apologies if you have already mentioned elsewhere on the blog RE: your siblings.

            Hope you can alleviate some of your thoughts x

          9. A Victor says:

            Asp Emp, I hope so too. It’s just a matter of making some decisions and acting, very simple really, but then not at the same time. My siblings (no apologies needed) are out of the loop, they don’t want to think about it, they probably think I am nuts to be living with her. My children understand how she is but I don’t talk to them, they don’t need the burden of it. I have a couple of friends that I bounce things off of sometimes. But, I really am on my own regarding how to proceed. My biggest thing might be that I don’t know if I will have more regrets leaving or if I will staying. When I think of leaving, I think, what will I gain? I don’t talk to her now, so that wouldn’t change. It is not unreasonable cost-wise living here and the payoff will be very helpful for my future. All of that, then why is it so stressful? That’s the piece I’m not seeing and maybe it would help if I could figure that out. If I’m causing the stress on myself, then I need to knock that off. I have begun to see more benefit to living where I do, as far as the area. My kids are not that far away and I do have a few good friends nearby. People I can call spur of the moment and meet up with to walk or whatever. If I stay, my future looks much better financially and it helps my son who is planning college this fall in this area, he can go from home. He has been such a good buffer for her since he saw how she can be, and I am thankful for him, he’s doing much better, has come out of the depression he’d been in, is chemical free and excited about his future, I am very happy for him and proud of him, it has been a rough 18 months. TTU largely leaves me alone, she was at a bday party last Sat for one of my grandchildren and there she complains about things being so hard for her, I have to hear it, it makes me sound horrible. Thankfully everyone knows how she is and blows it off. And thankfully my family is pretty laid back, except for my mom and the potential narc son in law, but he doesn’t even pay attention to her. So she was unable to ruin the party but she did dampen my spirits a bit, I suppose this is where my whining came from here on the blog. Thank you for the feedback, I do appreciate it. It helps to sort out the thoughts that spin around otherwise. Why is there any guilt? Is that a typical parent/child dynamic or is that the narcissist/child dynamic? I think the latter and as such, I do need to figure out how to let it go.

          10. Asp Emp says:

            AV, so if your siblings think you are ‘nuts’ to be living with TTU – then maybe, or will they assist you in getting TTU moved? I think, it comes across to me, that you have anxiety about dealing with TTU and I can understand your apprehension but it should not really impact your future – as you have made arrangements on this, I understand?

            Some of us have a ‘deeper fear’ than other people when it comes to making big decisions, such as moving people out of the home. It’s a pity you cannot be more objective about it 😉

            That is brilliant news about your son. Sounded like he needed some ‘clarity’ and support, which, no doubt, you have provided.

            You do not have to ‘hear’ TTU’s ‘noises’. Glad TTU did not spoil the party. It is good that other people knows ‘how she is’. You are not ‘whining’ – that is not what we are doing. We are sharing our experiences and talking our thoughts / feelings through on this blog.

            RE: your question about ‘guilt’ and I would include ‘regret’ here – I would say that it is probably your in-built narcissistic influence via TTU – like you say it is. Do not feel or think guilty where TTU is concerned, it is a waste of your energy 🙂

          11. A Victor says:

            Okay Asp Emp, I am taking your advice and giving myself permission to not feel guilty or waste my time and energy doing such. Thank you! I will keep you posted on the rest, re any arrangements etc. That is a whole legal process and no where near even starting at this time. If I did anything now, she could literally kick me out of her house and write me off of everything. If she did this, I would be fine but I would have wasted 3 years, made a senseless move and be paying rent instead of owning a home, as I once did. My siblings want nothing to do with any of it, when she dies, they will likely not even respond, literally. Maybe my brother will. But I understand either way they choose. With regard to her, things can literally change in a heartbeat at her age, so maybe it will not be as long as I expect before some changes can happen. Thank you for your support and kind words, for allowing me to vent, I try to remember that I made and am making the choice to be here at this time so not allowed to complain. Once in a while it gets a bit overwhelming is all. So thank you.

          12. Asp Emp says:

            AV, bugger that she owns the house. Bugger!

            You are allowed to complain. That is what this site is for. To vent. To rant. To get angry. Let it all out here. Talk it out. I hope you can feel better soon x

          13. A Victor says:

            Thanks Asp Emp, tomorrow will be better, it always is, haha, except for days like yesterday. Thankfully they are not frequent.

          14. Leigh says:

            AV, why do we let them keep their thumb on us? I wish I had the answer to that question. My husband is a victim narcissist like your mother. Maybe the carrier in us needs to take care of them. I think its more than just guilt that makes us stay.

            I’m glad to hear your son is doing better. I know you were worried.

          15. A Victor says:

            Leigh, I am pretty coldhearted about the taking care of her aspect, until she needs it, she doesn’t get it. I have never said no to anything she has asked directly for, I will not do anything that she doesn’t ask directly for, not yet. Maybe at some point, if she gets actually more needy. In the meantime, I don’t have the time to cater to her every little whim when it’s not yet necessary. She would suck all of my resources dry if I started giving her the opportunity. But, the guilt I feel for doing ANC while in the home, and the added stress of being here, is that equivalent or less or greater than I would feel if I moved and went NC and forfeited the financial aspect. I think my guilt stems from the place that she’s my mother, it’s just there. Thankfully, no more guilt over my dad and not being the daughter he wanted in many ways, so once she’s gone, I hope that guilt will resolve too. Yes, it is more than just guilt, I think so too. Thanks about my son.

          16. Leigh says:

            AV, it doesn’t feel real. It feels like I’m making it all up in my head. I keep asking myself, how can this be? I don’t know if you’ve seen my latest comment, but I believe one of my daughters is a narcissist too. I know there’s a reason for all this. To be honest though, there are times I wish I still had the rose colored glasses on.

            I know what you mean, do you give up financial security or do you stay and live with the toxicity? I know what I would like to do. I’d like to say, adios mother fucker. I can walk away from my mother without blinking an eye. I’ve already done that. I speak to her once a month for 5 minutes. Now I have to do that with my husband. How do I do that with my daughter though?

          17. A Victor says:

            Yes Leigh, I did see that, about your daughter. I am so sad for you to be worried about that. Is there any chance of her doing the Empath Detector Consult? That might take your worry away, or could you do and NDC on her? That could help you also. I was similarly concerned, it did help me a lot, if you know what I mean. I also know what you mean about the rose colored glasses, in some weird way that was easier, but harder too, more confusing. I don’t have any thoughts about how we do this with a child, I have no idea what I would/will do if I ever find that out about one of mine. Absolutely the most difficult one, I think. I am so sad for you tonight but I am going to hope it’s not true, until you have some kind of confirmation, we can hope that. And let me tell you, if the emotional empathy is stressed enough, it can really look that way, I have seen it.

          18. Leigh says:

            AV, yes, I plan on doing the narc detector. It is very sad and I hope its not true. This isn’t something that I came to lightly. I’ve suspected it for a very long time. Wouldn’t it be fantastic if it was my ET playing tricks on me?

          19. A Victor says:

            Yes, and it could be your ET doing so. You are doing the best thing, going to the evidence, that is HG’s message to us. I am going to hope for a negative result and for you to have strength no matter the result.

          20. A Victor says:

            Hi Leigh, I keep coming back to this “it doesn’t feel real. It feels like I’m making it all up in my head” I have felt that way as well, like HG is fake and all this is some weird and horrific nightmare, my entire life could not actually be this, could it? I think it was my cognitive dissonance at work so I studied that and it got a bit easier to accept everything. It still crosses my mind on occasion but now I can counteract it more easily and get back to reality, the real reality. And horrible as it was, it is better than the fog that was my previous nightmare.

          21. Leigh says:

            That’s exactly how if feels to me, a really bad nightmare. Unfortunately, I know its real. I think the idea of my baby being a narcissist has just made me rethink everything. I just need time to process this one. This blow was a big one. Maybe Mr. Tudor will give me good news.

          22. WhoCares says:


            “This was a tough year with COVID….So to make a long story short, they aren’t quite ready to get there own place yet. Plus it’s very expensive where I live. Rent is off the charts.”

            This WAS a tough year, indeed. But one thing you should be aware of is that there will never be a perfect time or moment to leave. You – or your emotional thinking – will always manage to find the perfect excuse NOT to leave, no matter what’s going in the rest of the world.

            “I don’t why but change scares the crap out of me.”

            What should scare the crap out of you is some of the stories of the Empath’s slow but sure deterioration of their health while in ensnarement – and some of those resulting in death as the escape. (Sorry, if that’s blunt – I really don’t think Eternity is coming on too strong.)

            I know you want to be there for your children, but the longer you stay the more your well-being is being undermined by poor treat. And if you really want to take care of and be there for your children in the future (if they find themselves in a truly tough spot), you’ll need your own strength and stability to rely on…otherwise it’s a bit like throwing a life line from a sinking ship.

          23. Leigh says:

            WhoCares, I can appreciate your bluntness. I’m sure everyone at this point wants to kick me in the ass. I know I have to leave. I know I’m making excuses. I know it’s not good for my well being. When I escape, the preference is to be on this side of the ground.

            Thank you for your concern. I’m making moves. Its just at a very slow pace.

          24. WhoCares says:

            “I’m sure everyone at this point wants to kick me in the ass.”

            Absolutely not, Leigh.
            We just want you to taste freedom.

            And those who know what it’s like, having been ensnared and then escaped, want you to see how much better you will feel once you leave the fog behind.

          25. Leigh says:

            WhoCares, I want to taste freedom too…

          26. WhoCares says:


            “I’m sure everyone at this point wants to kick me in the ass.”

            Absolutely not.
            We just want you to taste freedom.

            *Sorry if this is a duplicate post. I am issues with my comments.

          27. A Victor says:

            Leigh, I don’t want to kick you in the ass. Not at all. I want you to be happy with whatever you decide is best for you, this is all a process, it doesn’t necessarily happen quickly, you’re doing well, taking the time you need to decide what’s best for you. Getting feedback, information and support are only going to help your decision making process, so it is good you are here getting those things.

          28. Leigh says:

            Hi WhoCares, you said “What should scare the crap out of you is some of the stories of the Empath’s slow but sure deterioration of their health while in ensnarement – and some of those resulting in death as the escape.”

            I’ve been thinking about that comment alot. I’m fairly certain, one of my daughters is a narcissist too. All I keep thinking is, what kind of cruel joke is this? Then I think, I didn’t protect her enough. Then I think, why couldn’t I be the narcissist because then I wouldn’t care. Then I think, the ultimate escape doesn’t sound so bad.

            Every time I turn around, there’s another narcissist. My mother, my father, my husband, my best friend and now my daughter. Its fucking bullshit!!! I’m sorry for cursing but I’ve really had enough. How do I escape my daughter? How? How do I do that? I’m finding it really hard to find the silver lining here. The universe really stuck it to me this time.

          29. Asp Emp says:

            Leigh, your daughter may or may not be, it may be your ET thinking that, leading you to think you did not do enough to ‘protect’ her? Even if she is, it is not your fault. At all.

            Have you re-thought / considered a consult with HG? You can take the consult away from the house if it’s done over the phone? HG can allay some of your concerns and advise you on some forward-thinking to assist you.

            I, too, would like to see you get yourself away from the narcissists – for yourself. I was able to take myself off the emotional & mental ‘carousel’ – I had to. I have no narcissists around me so it was easier for me to learn / understand my addiction to narcissism. WhoCares is right RE: the ‘freedom’ gives you so much ‘breathing space’ to think and feel differently, in your own way, instead of the influence of narcissism ‘blocking’ it.

            Are you able to go and stay with a friend for a long weekend – just to gather yourself a bit?

          30. Leigh says:

            Oh Asp, how I wish what you said is true. I fear that its my ET that had me in denial about it. She’s very mean, yet doesn’t see it. She thinks she is unselfish when all of her actions say the opposite. She’s very mean to her sister. Calls her terrible names and says terrible things to her. She has called me a bitch on several occasions and tells me to shut up, all the time. Everyone walks on eggshells with her. We are afraid of how she will react. She broke up with her boyfriend via text and hasn’t spoke to him face to face since then. She said she didn’t want to see him because she knew she would feel bad and didn’t want to. She did this the day before his birthday. I have to take the rose colored glasses off even though I really don’t want to.

            I’m going to do a narc detector to make sure. I have to get a gift card first.

            I do like your idea of going away. I have a very close friend who lives 2 miles from the ocean. I haven’t seen her since before COVID. I could go see her for the day. When the kids were young, we spent many weekends there. I love the ocean. I love the sound of the waves crashing.

          31. Asp Emp says:

            Leigh, RE: comment on the other thread – domestic violence – could you trust your friend enough to talk with them about things that are going on at home?

            RE: your daughter, is she the older or younger of the two? She could very easily be someone with eroded empathy & lashing out. You don’t need to tell us about the boyfriend she was with – did he have any indication of narcissist? NDC sounds like a good option. I understand your reluctance and your thoughts / feelings on this. Whatever the result is, it is your daughter and it is not your fault. Ok?

            Sounds ideal, your describing the ocean – sounds like a good idea. Hope you make arrangements to do this, for yourself.

            Either way, you have got support here, including from HG. Hope you get to move forward sooner than later. Take care of yourself, first 🙂

          32. Leigh says:

            Yes, I could trust my friend enough to talk to her about my husband and his toxicity. I don’t like to do that. It almost feels like I’m smearing him. I don’t want people to see him in a bad light.

            As for my daughter, no I don’t believe her ex boyfriend is a narcissist. This was her high school sweetheart that she was dating for many years. She broke up with him and then started seeing someone new, the next day.

            I suppose you’re right and its not my fault. The bigger concern is that she’s empty. She’s doomed.

            I really do hope I’m wrong.

          33. Asp Emp says:

            Leigh, I think it’s time to TALK with your friend. Take a few days off and away from home. It does not matter what your husband says, if he objects, tell him to get microwave meals, he can get his own food. You need some time with your friend. Make it up – say that your friend has had a bereavement, whatever, come up with anything like that to basically ‘deflect’ him and tell him your friend needs you more than he does right now…..his problem. Not yours. Your put yourself first. Please.

            Good that the ex boyfriend was not a narcissist.

            If your daughter is, do not feel badly about it. Find out first. Seeing someone else new the next day? Maybe she was seeing him before she ended the high school sweetheart – people grow older, maybe your daughter wanted a change? People can become more like sister / brother after being together from a young age into adults.

            Don’t see it as ‘doomed’, if she is a narcissist, that is the way she is. Regardless of that, she is your daughter and always will be. Yet, I know, if you ask him, HG will be able to advise accordingly how to maintain the relationship with your daughter as it does not mean that she would start her ‘influence’ on you, because you have learnt about narcissism so far.

            Do let us know anything you wish to share with us. If you decide to keep it to yourself, that is fair enough.

            Do consider a few days away with your friend. I know you will find it a total and utter ‘release’ to be yourself for a few days x

          34. Leigh says:

            I forgot to answer one of your questions. She is the younger of my two daughters.

          35. Asp Emp says:

            Leigh, ok, thank you for sharing that. For your peace of mind, have the DC done and then you can decide further, if appropriate. Take care of yourself though, Leigh x

          36. Leigh says:

            I purchase the narc detector and I will be completing it today. Ugh! I’m not looking forward to it but I know it needs to be done.

          37. Asp Emp says:

            Leigh, that is great t know – at least you will have an idea soon. I do understand how you must be feeling. Try to complete the NDC in quiet place where you will not get distracted. I’ll be thinking of you x

          38. WhoCares says:


            “I’m fairly certain, one of my daughters is a narcissist too. All I keep thinking is, what kind of cruel joke is this? Then I think, I didn’t protect her enough. Then I think, why couldn’t I be the narcissist because then I wouldn’t care. Then I think, the ultimate escape doesn’t sound so bad.”

            It is pretty difficult to protect our children from something that we didn’t know about or didn’t fully understand. We are also not responsible for the fact that narcissism has a genetic component.
            You are also not at fault that you have been imprinted by narcissist parents which caused you to have a vulnerability towards seeking other narcissists and, therefore, had kids with one.

            “How do I escape my daughter? How? How do I do that? I’m finding it really hard to find the silver lining here. The universe really stuck it to me this time.”

            There’s a chance that she isn’t, as Asp Emp said.
            However, I do understand. I’m am not sure what I would do if I suspected that of my child. I actually have an empath friend who has two children and I suspect one is a narcissist. However, I can’t be 100 sure. This friend actually asked my opinion about her son’s behaviour, however I won’t be the one to put that label on him (even though I think that I am correct about my suspicions). She should get the definitive answer (HG’s NDC). I didn’t want evade her question so I said to her that young children are narcissistic to begin with and that can obscure things. Then I asked her “What would I do if found myself in the same position? (Suspecting my son was a narc). She said “You would consult with HG.” I said “Yes, I would.”
            Whether or not your daughter is a narcissist, I am sure HG has advised clients in this position.

            And I am sorry Leigh, I can feel how overwhelmed you feel by it all in your words – being surrounded on many sides by narcissists. It’s a reality many an (educated) empath has to face and it is not a pleasant reality to deal with.
            I just recently confirmed another narcissist in my world and it just makes me sad.

          39. Leigh says:

            WhoCares, that’s exactly it. It just makes me sad. I know I’m going to be fine but my daughter might not be. There’s a very high probability that’s shes a narcissist. That means she’s an empty shell. Devoid of empathy. She’ll never experience true joy or happiness or empathetic love. Like you said, its very sad.

          40. WhoCares says:


            “There’s a very high probability that’s shes a narcissist. That means she’s an empty shell. Devoid of empathy. She’ll never experience true joy or happiness or empathetic love.”

            Let’s just say that, hypothetically, your daughter is a narcissist. Then she would likely be an unaware one. Which means she will never know what she’s missing: that she doesn’t actually have a full range of emotions, or that her conception of “love” is not real empathetic love…she will still feel “love”, simply her version of it.

          41. WhoCares says:


            “her conception of ‘love’ is not real empathetic love…she will still feel ‘love’, simply her version of it.”

            Sorry Leigh, I was just reflecting on this, thinking it was not very helpful. It is still sad, from our perspective.
            But it’s similar to us imagining the alternative: feeling a sense of power in response to someone loving us – we will never feel like this, as a narcissist does, and we can hardly even conceive of it – not truly, anyway. Even though we have the power to self-reflect, we can only guess at the narcissist’s feelings (thank goodness for HG being the translator in this respect).
            So, if you’re daughter is a narcissist, she will lack the ability to self-reflect on what she is or isn’t missing.

          42. WhoCares says:

            *your daughter

          43. Leigh says:

            WhoCares, there is no need to apologize. I understood what you mean and I actually agree with you. “What she doesn’t know, won’t hurt her.” I know. I know she will never realize. I did the narc detector today but I don’t need it. I can see the toxicity. As I was answering the questions, I could have added so much more but stopped myself. This is my baby. It hardly seems fair.

          44. WhoCares says:


            “What she doesn’t know, won’t hurt her.” 

            It’s true. And it’s logic.

            “I did the narc detector today but I don’t need it. I can see the toxicity.”

            That’s similar to how I felt filling out the last NDC I did; I could see the pattern of behaviour as I answered the questions.

            “I could have added so much more but stopped myself. This is my baby. It hardly seems fair ”

            I know, personally, that I have arrived at a position where I no longer feel sorry, sad or any sympathy for narcissists, in general – but it would be a different story, if it were my own child.

            Thinking of you Leigh. 💗

          45. Leigh says:

            Thank you WhoCares. I’m gonna be ok. I’m just going to need a minute.

          46. Asp Emp says:

            WC, a great comment with good explanations 🙂

          47. WhoCares says:

            Thank-you Asp Emp.

          48. Asp Emp says:

            Ah, bless you, you’re welcome WhoCares 🙂

          49. WhoCares says:

            undermined by poor *treatment

          50. Fiddleress says:

            Hello Leigh,
            I’ve been reading your comments and it seems that your ET is extremely high but it’s not surprising.
            Latest I read from you: a day away at your friend’s near the ocean. Do you think at least two days, and preferably more, would be possible? It would be a good time for you to see a bit more clearly and think of a way ahead. Your children are not little, they can do without you for a few days/a week.
            Glad to hear you are going to do a narc detector on your daughter. It is always best to know for certain, because then you know what you ought to do. If she is a narcissist, do not blame yourself (and book a consult with HG, he will set you straight about that sort of feeling of guilt !). It will be a terribly difficult time to go through, but worth it in the end (more worthwhile than keeping in situ). She will remain your child, and HG will explain how you can go *almost* no contact with her – which means retaining some contact, so do not envisage something you will not be able to achieve in all likelihood (i.e. total NC).
            You have some pretty difficult time ahead of you Leigh, but we’re all here to support you in your moves towards freedom, and better health generally speaking. Better to cut off the relationships that are hurting you, to the maximum, now, rather than let them destroy you little by little, because they will, and they are already.
            All the best of courage to you Leigh; WC is right: we all want you to taste that freedom from narcissists in your real life. You will feel like a second life is beginning for you, truly. xx

          51. Leigh says:

            I would love to do more than a day but I don’t know how my husband would take that. He is extremely passive aggressive. He won’t do anything out right but he’ll do sneaky things. I don’t want to deal with the aftermath.

            There are two things that seem to be bothering me the most right now. First, is that my daughter might be an empty void. Every time I think about it, I want to cry.

            Second, is for a more selfish reason. I thought once I escaped my husband I would be free. Now, I will never truly be free. I won’t turn my back on my daughter and so that means I will always be ensnared.

          52. A Victor says:

            Leigh, WP is not allowing me to see the comments there, how I usually get to reply under the comment I want it under. So I hope you find this. I saw that you are doing the NDC today for your daughter, just wanted to let you know that I am thinking of you as you fill it out and sending hugs. You are very brave, I really admire the courage you are showing with regard to this.

          53. Leigh says:

            WordPress is a pain in the booty lately. Thank goodness I’m getting the email notifications. Thank you for your support. I appreciate it.

        2. Fiddleress says:

          AV: ” time with my son playing ping pong and other fun things. He is doing well”
          This made me really happy for you, to hear that your son is doing well.
          Wishing you and your family all the best xx

          1. A Victor says:

            Thank you Fiddleress, sorry for the delayed response, I just found your comment. Yes, he is doing very well, I am so happy too! Thank you for the well wishes and same to you as well!

      2. Bubbles says:

        Dearest Leigh,
        I’m so glad, thank you lovely 😊
        I thought it resonated perfectly
        Luv Bubbles xx 😘

      3. Eternity says:

        Leigh, you have a lot of patience. So did I , but eventually your patience will run out. In the meantime just ignore him, limit the fuel and residual benefits. He can do his own landry, cook for himself, no sex. When you ignore them that is the worst thing. Make girls night out, wear something nice and try and take care of yourself. You can’t put the price on freedom. Being on my own is amazing! Don’t let him control you! Enough is enough . Good luck sweetheart 💓

        1. A Victor says:

          Eternity, this comment makes sense, it’s almost like ANC. It’s what I did for the final year with my ex though I knew nothing about the reality of what I was dealing with or how to handle it except that I was done. Sadly the one thing I continued to do was pay his bills, I wish I would not have done that even. But, after a year of virtually no fuel and extremely limited residual benefits, he left.

          1. Eternity says:

            The main thing is he left A Victor , best present for you ! Don’t look back now, what is done is done .

        2. Leigh says:

          So true Eternity, you can’t put a price on freedom or peace.

          My patience is wearing thin. I’ve looked at apartments and I’ve gathered info on lawyers. I’m going to schedule a consult too.

          1. Eternity says:

            Leigh, I am super duper happy for you ! Yay! You go girl! You will make it ! I am rooting for you.

          2. Leigh says:

            Eternity, don’t be too happy yet. I tend to move at a snails pace. I’m planning a consult but I’m already feeling overwhelmed about it. Yes, I’ve looked at apartments but I’m also feeling overwhelmed by that.

          3. Eternity says:

            Leigh , it will seem overwhelming at first ,but trust me things will get easier. The main thing is you have made a decision and that is a giant leap!
            Take your time look ahead towards brighter future . I am here for you!

          4. A Victor says:

            Leigh! I just saw this comment! Wow, I had no idea you were this far in the process! I’m so happy for you, you’ve made some decisions it seems, sometimes that is calming in itself. I am so impressed too, you’ve been working towards things in spite of your fears, as you’ve said before, we really are strong aren’t we? Yay for you!! 🎉👍💕

          5. Leigh says:

            This whole thing with my daughter has haulted me. I did look at a couple of apartments but never went further. The prices aren’t as bad as I expected. As for lawyers, I tried reaching out to the college by me that does pro bono work but I haven’t heard back.

          6. A Victor says:

            Leigh, it makes sense about being on pause for your daughter right now. The time will be right to get other things done once that is established and you are settled with whatever the outcome is. I saw another comment you posted about me wondering what to write about my son and you having no problem coming up with stuff, that made my heart sink a bit for you. But, I am still keeping up hope.

            One other thing, I saw a comment you wrote about hoping you didn’t cause it if she turns out to be one, or something similar. Leigh, you absolutely did not do that! Please don’t allow yourself to think you did. Your husband, as the narc, made her life LOCE, you did not. You did not know what you were dealing with, you had no idea what was needed. Please don’t take that guilt on if it turns out she is. I know that not doing so will be extremely difficult, maybe HG can help you with that if you find it is a problem. He is very good with things like that. But you need to conserve your energy for dealing with things in the now, all you did was love her, that’s all.

          7. A Victor says:

            Just read your next comment, go at the pace you can handle, it is a process, not necessarily quick. Whatever you do, in whatever time frame you do it, it will be fine! I think Empath007 said take it a day at a time, very sounds advice! Feel good about the progress, not bad about the pace. 💕

    2. Joa says:

      Only you alone can bring yourself to peace.

      Counting on someone to work for you is a road to nowhere. Repeating the same error over and over again.

      But sometimes it’s good to have someone nearby who can do it, to observe and try it out for yourself.

      That’s my opinion.

  2. leelasfuelstinks says:

    In my case the devaluation didn´t come suddenly. It came slowly creeping in. it was bleeding into the idealization period. After about 8 months I noticed that I´m on a huge roller coaster ride. He was wonderful in the morning and then awful in the evening. One day wonderful the other day pure horror. So, I cannot remember when exactly the full devaluation set in. 🤷‍♀️

    1. Eternity says:

      Leela, same goes for me. It happened for so many years until I came to the blog! I knew something wasn’t right a long time ago but I was patience and stayed ( ain’t that some shit) I get pissed with myself. I wasted the best fucken years of my life. Thank God I Escaped!

      1. leelasfuelstinks says:

        Yes, the most important thing is, that you escaped! Many victims do not escape (like my mother).

        1. Eternity says:

          Leela , so sorry about your mom. People stay for so many reasons and it is unfortunate that some take it to the grave. Being with the Narcissist till the death to us part

          1. leelasfuelstinks says:

            That´s what my mom does – with my Patri Narc. They have been married for about 55 years. No discard, no escape. I doubt that this is a happy marriage and really ask myself why mom stayed. Probably co-dependent. She´s no narc.

          2. Eternity says:

            Leela , again it is to bad that she is still with him and unhappy. Some people are just stuck in situations they can’t free themselves from. We do have choices in life and decisions to make.

        2. D says:

          My mom was married to a narcissist for 58 years. Definitely NOT a happy marriage. From the outside looking in, everyone thought they were a great couple with 4 kids, Dad having a successful career that brought in a lot of money, etc. Behind closed doors, there was domestic violence, adultery, gaslighting, triangulation, etc. The truth FINALLY came out 5 years ago when Dad was arrested for pushing my mom so hard she hit her head on the coffee table. Even then she still stayed…even bailed him out of jail much to everyone’s horror. The drama drove everyone away.

          Mom finally escaped Dad on August 20, 2020 when she died from non-small cell lung cancer. Dad has since changed the narrative of their marriage saying they had a great life together.

          1. leelasfuelstinks says:

            So sorry what happened to your mom 😢I´m sure my mom is not happy either with my Patri Narc. 🙁

          2. Leigh says:

            I’m so sorry D. I’m an ACON (Adult Child of a Narcissist) and I’m also an IPPS. My husband is a narcissist and we’ve been together for 36 years. My husband also believes we have a great life together, even though that’s the furthest from the truth. I’m sorry your mother’s story ended that way.

          3. A Victor says:

            That’s heartbreaking D. It is horrible that the narc’s behavior can actually lead us to physical illness, though this may not be in your mom’s case. But I know of several cases where the spouse of what I would guess to be a narcissist became sick and passed away many years before the narcissist. I also know of one or two cases where the narc passes prematurely, so I think their behavior takes a toll on them also.

          4. WhoCares says:


            That’s quite the story. Thank-you for sharing, although it leaves me with a heavy heart after reading it.
            My aunt and my dad both escaped their narcissists through death.
            Knowing such stories – and I think they are more common than we sometimes realize – makes me happy that HG’s work exists in the world.

          5. Duchessbea says:

            Sorry to hear about the death of your mother.
            Sending you much love and hugs.

      2. A Victor says:

        Eternity, those wasted years is one of my biggest regrets. And even the decade wasted after he left, when I was still spinning because I didn’t know what had happened to me. All a big waste of my time, of my life. I so want to get this information out to save other people from the same.

        1. Eternity says:

          A Victor, regret is the biggest thing to ever feel ! Being on the wheel of misery is the worst feeling ever, because you think what am I going crazy? If we can stop that wheel of misery and get someone off it would be such a relief. I love helping out people If I can. This information is extremely important and so many people don’t understand Narcissim.

          1. Duchessbea says:

            It is all the people who came before all of us, generation after generation who had no internet, no chatroom forums, no blogs and no Google to be able to search, question and find out what on earth is up. All those people who dealt with the crazy, and had no idea what they were dealing with. So many people (women especially, signed in by their husbands) over the centuries being signed into sanatoriums/asylums, to receive medical treatment for ‘hysterics’. The only problem was the person signing them in quite possibly a narcissist and as the term was unknown back then, their word was believed over the poor individual who did nothing wrong, just trying to understand what they were ‘ensnared’ with and trying to help them.
            Very grateful to HG for giving all of us, and many more who will come to find out, the inside scoop on his kind.

    2. Sweetest Perfection says:

      I escaped before that but because I was shelved since I had to travel to Europe to visit my family. I realized he was distant and told him that I didn’t need that. But it’s true that during the lovebombing I thought he was too much and he said weird things. Lovebombing made me idiotic I think.

      1. leelasfuelstinks says:

        This one was my only relationship with a narc where I was IPPS. I escaped a couple of months after sustained devaluation set in. About four years later, he died.

        1. Sweetest Perfection says:

          He died! One can only hope…

    3. A Victor says:

      My devaluation with my ex came at 3 months and was quite sudden and unexpected. I had either gone stale already or it was a corrective devaluation possibly, since we weren’t living together or married yet. I may have been in IPSS position at that time but thought I was IPPS. I learned a while ago that even a NIPS, a roommate he had possibly, could’ve been meeting the bulk of his fuel needs during that time. And I am pretty certain at the 3 month mark there were other women, maybe all that time. The only time I felt possibly there weren’t was for a couple of years right after we were married. But then it was back to his old ways. Those couple of years were pretty great though, in a lot of ways.

      1. leelasfuelstinks says:

        Almost same here. Triangulations began very early in the relationship. I wanted to end it already at a early stage, I knew it was right to end this and this is not normal, this cannot be real love but he hoovered me back in.

        1. A Victor says:

          Leela, I had no idea what “triangulation” was before arriving here, only knowing that there were many times with my narcs where I felt compared to another in a negative light. My mother was very bad about it, the summer narc the worst. Now that I know what it is, abuse, I will see that red flag and run! It is horrible! Instead of admitting that it was hurtful, I would stuff my feelings down and try to respond “appropriately”, make it funny or nod in agreement, whatever. I did finally tell that summer narc to stop telling me about his sexual experiences with other women, in no uncertain terms. But, did I end it then? No. It ended later over some other abuse that I am thankful that I did recognize as such. I was so out of touch with my feelings, my gut reaction, likely due to growing up with it happening, yet another thing to relearn, thank you parents. Ugh.

          1. leelasfuelstinks says:

            Neither had I. I just got compared to other women, mostly blonde, tanned Barbie doll types, he telling me how sexy and attractive this or that woman was. I used to lash out at him them and scream that he should fucking stop with his fucking stupid Barbie sluts and if he finds this or that woman so attractive then he should go to them and choose them instead and fucking leave me alone! 😡Challenge fuel! Followed by gas lighting of course 🙄 His favorite triangulation was his ex wife. Mary (name changed) here, Mary there, Mary always wore … Mary used to do … sometimes in a positive and sometimes in a negative way, projecting his own flaws into her. And I lashed out and told him to fucking go back to Mary and leave me alone if he couldn´t get over her!

    4. Cherish says:

      Hi Leela,

      When reading your comment It made me think off maybe because the narcs were more from the lesser schools they have bronze periods and maybe as you have super empath traits majority they are not so good with dealing such a empath.

      1. leelasfuelstinks says:

        You are 100 % right, Cherish! 👍

  3. leelasfuelstinks says:

    If you pay close attention, you will notice that even during the golden period there are a lot of WTF-moments. There they are: your twin flame, you soulmate, the perfect person for you! But then there are those “something is not right”-moments. If he´s really my soulmate and if he really loves me so much, why the heck is he staring at other women? Why the heck is he looking for affairs and shags all the time? Why is he a dog with 6 dicks? Why the heck is he ignoring me for some days or even weeks? Why he suddenly lashes out over nothing? But he is so wonderful, so nice, the sex is amazing (for some victims), he really seems to love me, aw, that little lash out…[insert excuse here], he´s a wonderful man. Yeah yeah! Until you fall from the pedestal and you fall deep, the impact is horribly painful and you find yourself in hell!

    1. Asp Emp says:

      LFS, you have described it as it was – hence why it can come as a shock for people when they start reading and learning. Despite how painful it may be for some people to look back and ‘reflect’ as a means to understanding what / where / how – as part of the educational journey. Sometimes, and depending what the ‘experience’ was, you have to look back before you can move forwards – with the ET / LT not yet in ‘sync’, it can be difficult to look back to make sense of it all. Hence doing a lot of reading helps to start with (in my view). I think it also depends on the ‘depth’ of the traumas, what type of ‘trauma’ etc.

      I’ve yet to see a dog with 6 dicks…..that is funny though.

      1. leelasfuelstinks says:

        This is indeed how it was. Except for the sex which was not exactly “amazing”. It was okay, it was fine, he couldn´t hold up his erections though 🙄 and couldn´t finish.

        1. Asp Emp says:

          LEF, wow. Just like the MR I knew! He blamed his “issues”! Same here, wasn’t the best I had either. Sounds like we didn’t miss much afterall! 😉

          1. leelasfuelstinks says:

            None of my narcs was good between the sheets, even though all of them were Somatics. 😂

          2. A Victor says:

            Damn lazy narcs. 🤣

      2. lisk says:

        There was NO WAY that I could have looked back and had a million Aha! Moments without HG laying out to bare everything about narcissistic behavior.

        I am so thankful I discovered KTN when I did. I wish I could have found it sooner. The thing is HG wasn’t doing this blog when I was first wondering what the heck was going on.

        I did have instincts back then but I was too addicted at that point to listen to them and act in my own.

        1. Asp Emp says:

          Lisk, I am sure there are thousands of people who have also thought “wish KTN, or similar was around years ago”. I am glad that HG did start it.

          Yes “Aha! Moments without HG laying out to bare everything about narcissistic behavior” – we would not be given the opportunity to lay ourselves bare either. Pity that all the ‘fake’ sites cannot be stripped away and just leave this one genuine site for the world to peruse.

  4. A Victor says:

    “truth be told, I have no idea how to love you.”. There it is. All my narcs.

    1. leelasfuelstinks says:

      After three days of chatting online: “I´m crazy in love with you” 😂😂😂

      1. Bubbles says:

        Dearest Leela,
        😂😂😂…thank you
        Luv Bubbles xx 😘

        1. leelasfuelstinks says:

          Hahahahaha, Bubbles! Yes! This: 🤥🤥🤥🤥🤥🤥🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩!!!!!!!!

          1. Bubbles says:

            Dearest leela,
            Speaking of crazy in love, have you or any lovelies here seen Sex/Life on Netflix? 😱
            Aussie Aussie Aussie oi oi oi 😍
            Luv Bubbles xx 😘

      2. A Victor says:

        It took the summer narc 3 weeks, and then only in a preventative hoover. After he said it I responded that no one can know that after 3 weeks, he never said it again, thank goodness.

        1. leelasfuelstinks says:

          As shown above: 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩!!!!!!!!!!!!

          1. A Victor says:

            Hahahahaha!! Exactly!

        2. Dave says:

          “truth be told, I have no idea how to love you.”

          As the devil’s advocate I just have to ask, can’t we at least give the narc credit for trying? Albeit in their own way.
          Especially the ones that actually even deceive themselves and believe that they love their victim?

          In a way I think it’s unfortunate that the victim can’t fake it to the same degree, and doesn’t love bomb the narc back later in the relationship in order to keep the fuel fresh and plentiful. Then theoretically couldn’t the golden period last a lifetime?
          Maybe these are the ones that stay in the relationship as mentioned in the comments above?

          Because Narcs are people too, it’s not their fault they are what they are. And they are just trying to fit into the world.

          Take Mr. Tudor for example: from what I can tell about him he has some experience knowingly tormenting people in the same ways that some of you have suffered at the hands of narcs.
          Yet here his work is excellent. Indeed there is no one else like him, and he is showered with love and admiration for his contributions.
          I would also suspect that in his private life he is at the top of his game and probaby receives a lot of positive feedback (fuel) at work.
          What if what he does for work actually benefits all of society but he doesn’t care about that, it is just fuel for him? Perhaps the thrill of winning?
          But then he also has suffered at the hands of others through no fault of his own. And it couldn’t we argue that due to that suffering which created him doesn’t society owe him some sacrificial lambs if what he wants is engage people in the confusing abusive relationships? I’m sure the victims have genuinely good experiences during the golden period.
          It seems to me that if he was able to find that perfect appliance that would never fail him then he would gobble up that positive fuel forever. And his appliance would be happy too.
          Surely the victims recognize the value of the energy and resources that the Narc brings to the relationship. Again perhaps why some decide to stay?

          In fact it seems to me that everyone hates narcissists once they are exposed. While at the same time loving all the benefits and entertainment and art that narcs bring into the world. Isn’t this similar to the abuse that the victims say they suffer at the hands of narcs? That push pull effect.
          If a narc knows what he is and makes his contribution to the world, yet knows that if the world knew what he was he would be persecuted for something he couldn’t control – wouldn’t that justify the narcissist being deceitful and manipulative?
          Is lying a virtue? What if you had to lie to save yourself from destruction? Because the narc is the way he his to protect himself can we really blame him?

          If the victim realizes that the Narc is trying the best he knows how (golden period), but doesn’t experience love in the same way as the victim. Yet needs the victim to love and adore him.
          Can’t the victim feel compassion for the narc and decide to stay? Because if she (victim) does feel something for the narc and she knows the situation she’s in, then who else will love the narc for who they are?

          1. A Victor says:

            Hi Dave, I apologize for just finding this comment, WordPress didn’t alert me to it.

            I have also considered your thought that we might do well to give them credit for trying. Where I’ve fallen on this is that, yes, they can have credit, they are deluded and disordered so it really is, in a sad way, their best. But I can’t make decisions based on that thought, I must make decisions based on the reality of what is happening which is they are hurting me even as they say, and possibly even believe, that they love me. Much of your comment are the thoughts I had months ago at the start of my journey. They are now thoughts that make me feel rather abused just by reading them. I feel like you’re saying that a person in the ensnarement of a narcissist should just realize they couldn’t help becoming what they were, they might do some good for the big picture, so suck it up and take the abuse. I do not agree with that. As a child I had no choice but to take the abuse. I choose now to “love” my parents even so. But, I do not have any reason to accept the abuse now. And I don’t believe it would be right to do so, not honoring to me as a human, just like they are humans. Also, the abuse that my ex did far outweighed any overarching good he did for the world or for our family. He wasn’t involved. It sounds to me like you either don’t understand what abuse is, which I did not when I first found narcsite, so this would not be surprising. Or you feel that people abusing each other is okay. If that’s the case, we absolutely disagree. I can feel all the compassion in the world for a narc but I can do it at a safe distance. Also, the Golden Period is in no way genuine, the narc is stealing from (him or) her and deceiving her even as he gives her “the best he knows how”. There is no “perfect fuel source that will not fail”, we as humans are not fuel sources anyway, and HG does not care how what he does benefits society, he cares about his own legacy. I am thankful beyond what you can know for HG and his desire for his legacy but I do not delude myself about his reality surrounding it. If I walked into another ensnarement today, he would not care less except as how it would reflect on him. When my ex left 11 years ago and NEVER looked back, 3 kids still in the home growing up, I learned first hand exactly what his narcissist “love” meant, to all of us, absolutely nothing. There no way I agree that society “owes” them any sacrificial lambs for what they suffered, the furthest I’ll go with that is that those who made them suffer can rot in hell. I find your comment feels like an attack and I think we’re done with any further conversation.

          2. Asp Emp says:

            Hey AV, I read your comment and also Dave’s. In my view, both raised valid points on individual perspectives. There are narcissists in this world that have not had an ‘impact’ on my life so I do not ‘tar’ them with the same ‘brush’ as the ones that did impact me and on my life. That is how I approach it. Maybe Dave was too, from his perspective? His words “Because Narcs are people too, it’s not their fault they are what they are. And they are just trying to fit into the world” ring true, when ET is not applied (attached) to these words. Yet, it is understandable when we say otherwise when it comes to narcissists that directly impacted on our own lives. It does come across as ‘contradictory’ at times. That is our human ‘response’ (whether emotionally or mentally), it’s natural.

            Society’s “approach” to other people is the main problem that causes so many ‘divides’, including political and systems.

            Your words “we as humans are not fuel sources anyway”, if you look at it objectively, yes, the wording appears ‘inhuman’ if you like because you and I are not ‘programmed’ in that way to think or see it like that, because we have emotional and cognitive empathy. Yet, love / joy / happiness are a “source” (emotion, to you and me – fuel to a narcissist) that we all need in our lives.

            I understand also, that ET is such a bugger, that it goes up and down – more in some people compared to others – depending on what is the ‘LOCE’ they are experiencing. I would honestly say that LOCE also exists when we are adults – hence TTU needs to go. Hang in there, AV x

          3. A Victor says:

            Well, I was afraid of that, I took it wrong and came across too strongly. I have to say, Dave’s comment had me crying several times yesterday when I read it. The things he made reference to are all things I have already worked hard to sort through and I wasn’t in a good place to feel the need to defend my stance yesterday, it was a high ET day, but sadly it was the day I came across the comment. He did say he was being the devil’s advocate, but I couldn’t figure out the reason for him to feel the need to do so, especially in light of my comment that he was responding to. I felt my comment must have somehow triggered his thinking and yet mine was only my experience. I guess I felt a bit judged also for feeling like I do toward “my” narcissists but I don’t feel that anyone should judge another without walking in their shoes. And lastly, the (what felt like) barrage of questions felt like I was now suppose to “question” my thinking and my education and where I’m at in this process, and for what?! It has been a long hard road for me to get here and to go back and question those things, or have to explain them, or have someone else question them, figure it out yourself, I’ve already done so. It just irritated me. And made me very sad. And left me feeling very vulnerable. Some of that stems from what you said, narcissists that are at a distance, not “mine”, are viewed differently. But I could never agree to the “sacrificial lamb” aspect even for “all” or any “good” that they do, I can’t. I get that SM has had a phenomenal Golden Period, I am happy for her for that, but, I know that it is not build on anything genuine, and that breaks my heart for her, from a personal level, I had the same experience. You want it to be genuine, you make yourself believe it is genuine, you work hard to make it genuine, but, it is not. Anyway, Dave, if you read this, I am sorry for possibly reading too much in to your comment and allowing my emotions to respond. Best wishes.

          4. Asp Emp says:

            AV, thank you for your response on this. I think Dave also understands, from what he says in his comment back. I suppose it is how each of us can be of support to others, by being ourselves and speaking in our ‘perspectives’.

            Yet, it is all a constructive way for us all to be able to review and look back at our ET and our responses. We can also see how we can measure ourselves along our ET / LT journeys. There is nothing wrong with us all having a shit day, we all have them. Even narcissists. Yet, you and I are able to change the way we look at things. And how we react. That is how we also ‘improve’ ourselves x

          5. A Victor says:

            Asp Emp, thank you for your honesty about how you read our comments, I needed the balance you gave, much appreciated. I hope you’re correct and Dave understands. And I think you’re correct about our unique perspectives helping each other, I just have to respond more slowly, think it through a bit more and try to see it through the other’s eyes.
            I too am glad we can change, very glad for that.

          6. Fiddleress says:

            Dave, I am confused here. Have you ever been ensnared by a narcissist, and if you are an empath, did you “decide” to stay? It seems to me that if you had been through such an ensnarement, you wouldn’t be talking about any ‘choice’ to stay with a narcissist; you would be talking of an inability to leave, for a time at least, because you would know how detrimental to mental as well as physical health it is to an empath to remain in a relationship with a narcissist.
            I am also bewildered at your acceptance that there should be some sacrificial lambs: are you personally ready and willing to volunteer for the position?

          7. Bubbles says:

            Dear Dave,
            Interesting hypothesis!
            I believe narcissistic ‘traits’ are necessary for clear thinking and decision making, however, a personality disorder is different. It takes but only one to destroy, classic current case ….. Meghan Markle !
            With narcs, it’s totally one sided and false…. nothing is true in a relationship, it’s one big fat ‘continual’ lie. Lying is power, power means no boundaries. No boundaries result in abuse.
            There is no respect or trust.

            A victim can stay if they want, sure, but in the process they will lose sense of true self and identify. A narc cannot just have one source of fuel, it’s a matter of feeding their egos for survival. The golden period can’t last, it’s literally impossible, their narcissicm just won’t let them.

            Thanks to narcissists, ‘wars’ have claimed enough ‘sacrificial lambs’.
            Yes, I would lie to save myself ……(I call that ‘common sense’ in the face of danger) however, I don’t continually lie nor am I spiteful, mean or abusive into the bargain. Diplomacy and tact can achieve the same result.
            I personally don’t ‘hate’ narcissists, I just have very little tolerance for them and would prefer not to have anything to do with them, if I can possibly help it.
            Morally, we know what’s right from wrong, it’s a pity narcs are indifferent and are not prepared to learn from it.

            The thing is Dave, we do stay and that’s the problem!
            Luv Bubbles xx 😘

          8. Dave says:

            Bubbles. Thanks for the reply.
            I’ve listened to a couple of vids from that series but I wouldn’t say I’ve been following it.
            Do you think then that Harry will figure her out and dump her?
            And how did he get ensnared? Shouldn’t he have advisors looking out for him?

          9. Bubbles says:

            Dear Dave,
            They met thru a mutual friend hookup on a blind date and hit it off…..apparently! She said she knew very little about him beforehand, that’s a lie!
            Personally, I’d be surprised to see him leaving her….she has her long narc claws dug in extra deep. It’s going to be humongous when they do split and the aftermath will go on and on and on………and onnnnnnnn !
            Advisors ? Even his brother couldn’t get thru to him! Harry is not King material anyway and has always been a train wreck waiting to happen! It’s ironic he’s writing books, seeing as he apparently failed English haha
            Luv Bubbles xx 😘

        3. Fiddleress says:

          There is no button to reply to your comment to Dave, so I reply here.
          Agreed on the refusal to be a sacrificial lamb!
          You wrote: ” I can feel all the compassion in the world for a narc but I can do it at a safe distance.” Absolutely! The safe distance is the condition to allowing ourselves to feel compassion, and not so much as to break NC.

          1. A Victor says:

            I agree, thank you Fiddleress.

          2. Dave says:

            Fiddlerress there’s no reply button for your comment to me. I’m glad to see I’m not the only one who can’t find the reply buttons lol

            No I’m not an empath and I’ve never been ensnared.

            Someone close to me had to deal with a nacissist at work who stole all her work/ideas/copied the way she dressed, and was abusive when no one else was around, among other horrible things.
            I think she has some PTSD from it.
            She figured out it was a Narc she was dealing with and told me about everything she learned about narcissism and I started to see these patterns in other people that I know.
            Now I’m am completely fascinated by the nacissistic dynamic in relationships and I’m learning a lot about it.

            I did watch a few videos on YouTube discussing why people that decide to stay in the relationship once they know and their reasons for it – financial / it’s the devil they know…
            HG’s advice of GOSO.

            I’m only asking the questions out of curiosity not trying to upset anyone on here or bring up painful memories for them

            – appologies AV.

            As far as volunteering for the position I guess that would depend on the circumstances. I would weigh the benifits against the abuse. And when the abuse is too heavy then I would go.

          3. A Victor says:

            No problem Dave, I am very happy that you are seeking information, I wish I would’ve understood that yesterday when I first read your comment. I think you must be able to offer a great deal of support to the person in your life who was traumatized at work. Just the fact that you are willing to listen and look into it is validating for her and that is huge. I also apologize again for overreacting and being overly sensitive, I am glad to see it didn’t frighten you away, it is nice to have another male voice here.

          4. Dave says:

            AV. No problem. I’m really enjoying the conversations on here.

            I wasn’t supportive of her at first because I had no idea narcissism was a thing.
            This should be taught in high schools so people can recognize it.

            At first I basically told her it was nothing, that she was reading too much into things and these things weren’t happening the way she thought they were and she was really frustrated. In a way I must’ve enabled the gaslighting.
            Once we started to see the patterns the manipulations were obvious.

            It was pretty hard because no one seemed to understand.
            In the end she left her job, took a pay cut but was worth it.
            She’s doing much better now though not the same as before her run in with the Narc. She doesn’t seem to trust people anymore, and doesn’t seem as happy as she used to be.

      3. Freedom says:


    2. Dave says:

      Hey don’t apologize. I find the WordPress finicky too. I just wait for the email to hit my junk mail before I know there’s any reply to my comments.
      In fact, I find the blog comments a little hard to follow, for example there is no ‘reply’ button to your last comment to me. So I am replying to the original comment. Not sure if I’m doing that right?

      My comment was never meant to be an attack on you personally. I was just thinking out loud and hoping anyone would chime in on those thoughts.
      It’s just the line “truth be told” had some deeper meaning to me that I put my comment under yours.

      You are probably right that I don’t understand the abuse. I’ve never been in that situation that can remember. Except I am starting to suspect some people.

      Honestly I was kinda thinking “why doesn’t the other person just suck it up and deal with it while trying to keep the good times going?”
      Again not telling YOU personally to do that, but just asking about anyone in general. Like people that ultimately decide to stay in the relationship.
      Forgive me.

      I know you said this conversation is over, and that’s fine if you don’t want to talk to me.

      So I’ll throw this out there for anyone:

      I was thinking that the Narc doesn’t actually want to abuse it seems that it comes naturally and that they would prefer to stay in the golden period too.
      So how do co-dependant relationships work out?

      Is it possible that 2 greaters could agree that they need to provide each other with positive fuel and residual benifits while agreeing to direct their control and fury at third parties? Or even work together on manipulations?

      Again just wondering out loud. It’s possible I don’t really understand Narcissism (I’m new but learning quickly) but I want to understand how it pertains to some people I know.

      So please dont take this as an attack. Just trying to have a conversation, it’s okay to disagree. Because if I’m wrong I really want to have the right information.

      1. A Victor says:

        Hi Dave, I apologize. I was having a bit of a stressful day yesterday and when I found your comment, dated two weeks prior, on a day like yesterday was, it just really hit me hard. I remember quite vividly, as it was fairly recent, having many of the same thoughts that you stated. I learned, for me, it was my ET making me think those things, like I should be able to make these relationships work, but I cannot. I would’ve stayed in the relationship with my ex (he left) so prior to him leaving I was trying, for many years, to bring back and keep the Golden Period, it was futile. Maybe your comment made me feel like I failed in that somehow. I don’t know. If so, I better deal with that too, so thank you. I thought I had these questions all worked out and was caught off guard by the strength of my reaction to your comment. Asp Emp addressed it, I have replied to her, maybe that will help you understand a bit better where I was coming from.

        Also, thank you for explaining the “Truth be told” part, which I had quoted from the article. Part of what caught me off guard was the simplicity of my comment, it was just my experience, so I appreciate knowing that is what made you comment there. I hope that you will not refrain from commenting over my overreaction, I do feel quite badly about it. I did also go too far, to end the conversation, that was not acceptable. I hope you can forgive me.

      2. A Victor says:

        Now I will reply to the 2nd half of your comment. My understanding is that the narc doesn’t want to abuse or not abuse, they want their needs met, the prime aims, and they will do whichever is necessary in order to meet those needs. I don’t believe they care if it is malign or benign, as long as it does the job. Therefore, no incentive to continue the Golden Period.

        Co-D empaths who are ensnared have it the worst, they receive their personal validation for their very existence from that relationship and whatever the narc does is just further validation of them. It is therefore very difficult to bring them to understand that they don’t need the abuse.

        Greaters, as well as the other schools of narcs, don’t agree to work together, they all want to be the top one, not share it with anyone including another narc. Positive fuel goes stale, no matter who the fuel is coming from, so they then switch to negative fuel to meet that need. It is just how it works. They need the contrast which I guess makes the fuel seem fresh again, even from the same victim.

        I am glad for your questions (not taking them personally now) as they help me to cement my understanding better and I know that someone will correct if I am not telling you the right thing.

        1. Dave says:

          Good points. I also find that I retain information much better when I teach it to someone else.

          1. A Victor says:

            Hi Dave, I’m responding to your longer comment up above here as…WP issues, this thread only though, so odd.

            Have you found some of the articles on advice that HG has written? Many people give out poor advice to the victims and just for the reason you state, you didn’t know, they don’t understand. It is innocently done. You get kudos for being here trying to learn. Take your friend’s reaction, distrusting, struggling a bit for happiness, as real, this is how we are left, shaken to the core. It is so good that she got away, she can rebound, especially with a knowledgeable support person in her corner like yourself. It would be good if she would come here also, if she’s interested. Reading the article and hearing the YT videos could help her a lot in processing what happened to her.

            I feel the same, this should be taught in high schools. Maybe HG will come up with a one semester primer to sell to schools at some point. It should be his information, it is the best. And I’m glad you are enjoying the conversations! I do too! 🙄😃

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