10 Lies the Narcissist Will Use – Part One

70 thoughts on “10 Lies the Narcissist Will Use – Part One

  1. NarcAngel says:

    V
    A previous Down thread is where it was raised.

  2. Truthseeker6157 says:

    HG,

    I’m really liking the new videos.

    I realise that the HW videos get more hits, which frustrates me a little because I think the real insight, the real depth, is found in videos like this one. People miss out on your very best work if they only listen to HW. I suspect like me, the blog readers listen to both.

    I binge listened to Wuthering Heights this weekend. I absolutely love it. I don’t know the story so your narration is my first exposure to it. I saved episode 8 until I see episode 9, such is the way my mind works!

    All to say, I really enjoy and appreciate the breadth of work you produce, please keep doing it just the way you are.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Thank you TS.

      The HW videos reach a lot of people and some of those people learn more about narcissism, therefore it amounts to a good thing to have that reach and even if only 10% of those who listen (and I suspect it is higher) take an interest in narcissism and its impact on them, that still reaches a decent number of people over time. It is the case that many people listen to them simply because they do not like HW rather than having an interest in narcissism, which is frustrating but it still adds to the prominence of the channel.

      Naturally, I create videos which contain life-saving information which do not get the number of views of the more “tabloid” work about HW, but that just demonstrates much of what is wrong with people and why it remains so easy to ensnare and abuse them. They really do not help themselves.

      I agree with you that my esteemed blog readers will address both.

      1. Truthseeker6157 says:

        Thank you for your response HG,

        Yes, I very much see your point with the 10% and agree that figure is likely higher. People will tend to cherry pick the narcissism videos that match their current situation, at least to begin with.

        I listen to certain videos and think, “This really nails it. People really need to listen to this.” then I get frustrated that that video is right there and people missed the opportunity to really understand that particular aspect. I think the referencing of specific videos within the Harry’s Wife episodes is very useful. Hopefully that will also nudge people in the right direction.

        Your comment about people not helping themselves is sobering but sadly very true.

      2. Violetta says:

        “I agree with you that my esteemed blog readers will address both.”

        Darth Tudor has trained us well. We do indeed refer people to “Acquisition of Traits” when they talk about Wifey copying Diana’s perfume or outfits. If they express astonishment at how her present lies contradict the last set and the subsequent set, “The Truth, the Half-Truth….” When Harry started tapping his body parts on TV, I recognized at once what was happening because I’d already listened to “Crazed.”

        The Wifey recordings are particularly accessible to the general public because of the humor. What she’s doing to Harry isn’t actually funny at all, but at least we can have a laugh at her frantic attempts to seem simultaneously a “Classy Lady” (per her old vanity plate) and Down with the People on the Street, her scattergun causes, and her appalling wardrobe.

        It’s an approach I suspect HG wouldn’t take with the Brian Laundrie analyses (I haven’t dared to listen yet), and a user-friendly way to get people thinking about a topic that may be closer to home than they’re currently prepared to discover.

        1. Truthseeker6157 says:

          Violetta,

          Yes, I do find the comedy entertaining too, so I can totally see why people tune in. Particularly the Finding Dollars Funding Freedom, I laugh out loud at some of HG’s comments on that. Then it’s, “ He didn’t just say that. Did he?” Haha!

          I shouldn’t be surprised but I am still surprised by HG’s ability to move from humour, sensitivity, respect etc depending on the subject matter. You’re right, the Brian Laundrie analysis was entirely different in tone, very sensitively handled. Listen when you have time, the video footage together with step by step analysis was fascinating. Such a sad tale but very well handled by HG.

          Xx

          1. Violetta says:

            Truthseeker6157:

            I grew up in a violent family. Before I was in my teens, I got in the habit of putting change on my night table in case I had to run to a pay phone to call the cops (yeah, I’m that old). I’m seriously concerned about what will pop up if I listen to this. In my case, it was a part of the gaslighting, because my parents were “nice” people (meaning middle-class, professional degrees), so it wasn’t like a slum where everyone knows your business; my brother and I had shrinks to give the school our proper labels and keep everything tidy, convincing everyone (including us) that we were the problem.

            To this day I have trouble negotiating with just psychological and verbal abuse, such as I encountered at Miss Minchin’s, and I’m almost relieved when someone takes a swing at me, because in know what to do: hit the fuck back. Go for the nads, if it’s a guy: unfold your leg like a hinge so A) you have more momentum; and B) it’s more difficult for them to grab your foot and throw you off balance. Pinch someone else’s umbrella (look for the sharp-tipped kind), hold it like you’re going to whack them over the head with it, disengage to 4 and lunge, thrusting into their gullet. Eye, if your aim is that good (mine isn’t). I had people much stronger than I was back off on the NY subway, because “Yes, she’s that crazy.”

            Since my school narcs and most work narcs (rarely had Greaters) didn’t work with logic anyway, there was no point learning how to argue logically, and despite studying rhetoric in grad school and teaching the three appeals and counterargument-rebuttal to my own students, I turn into Billy fucking Budd in a seemingly civilized conflict, minus the stuttering. Street trash talk is different, because I can insult their moms much longer than they insult mine. I got a million of them.

            Do you happen to know if the “narcissist in court” material is aimed primarily at things like divorce and custody battles, or whether it also focusses on employment disputes?

          2. WhoCares says:

            Violetta,

            “Do you happen to know if the “narcissist in court” material is aimed primarily at things like divorce and custody battles, or whether it also focusses on employment disputes?”

            That material is not primarily directed at divorce/custody battles. It is generalized to include how the narcissist views the court process, what to expect with regard to differing schools of narcissist in the court situation and very practical advice about actual attendance at court (which is mostly virtual these days, dependent upon the type of matter and which court). I consider this material fundamental to any legal/court proceedings with a narcissist. In addition to being educational, and practical, it helped with my nerves because it provided some confidence with regard to what to expect.
            Also, it became (I’ve been in court several times now) entertaining to me (objectively) to watch HG’s accuracy in describing their possible behaviours in this particular setting. It’s brilliant and funny at the same time how bang on HG is – although most court dates themselves are not humourous when serious things are on the line.

          3. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Violetta,

            What a horrible story. Sly weren’t they? I totally get what you mean by them making sure that everything was kept tidy as far as school and appearances were concerned. Couldn’t have the finger pointed at them now could they?

            I knew very little of your story Violetta, I’m really sorry that was how your young years passed. It makes sense that physical threat feels less debilitating than mind games or verbal abuse when physically you learned how to handle yourself. Shame Miss Minchin was minus the nads!

            Honestly, I don’t think any of us like conflict. We’re straight talkers generally so the psychological manipulation is always going to throw us for a loop. I can debate, but even then, I won’t push a point if I think it will lead to conflict or if my views upset someone. You aren’t alone in that Violetta.

            To pick and choose what you listen to is sensible I think. The Brian Laundrie videos are more upsetting now that we know the outcome. The analysis was very much centred around the behaviours, what they corresponded to in terms of narcissism, and what this meant in terms of categorising Laundrie by school and cadre. I’d need to listen again before I felt comfortable recommending it to you though. There’s enough material to listen to without risking triggers.

            You made me chuckle with Billy Budd haha!

            I’m afraid I don’t know the focus of the ‘narcissist in court’ material. Who Cares purchased it though, I’m sure she could give you a steer.

            Xx

          4. Violetta says:

            Thanks, TS. I was too skinny to put any force behind a punch until Jr. High (never thought I’d miss the skinny part!), but then I was able fight back enough so one kid who’d been bothering me for years never did again. Teachers were worse then useless, because the mid-rAngels never wanted to recognize that using peer pressure to manipulate me invariably backfired. In any case, I felt that reason and fairness were irrelevant, and it was all about who had more power.
            The Work Narc recordings gave me fair warning what GrinchLady was going to do next; it was almost amusing every time she ticked a box, so it kept me from panicking. Some of the techniques for avoiding contact I couldn’t use with her: they would work in an office job, but not when you’re trapped in a room with that PoS traumatizing babies when she isn’t traumatizing you.

            I understand now why she objected to my doing anything educational with the kids at all: she and many others viewed it as a factory job (complete with clocking in and out and recording how many poops you’d changed instead of how many ratchets you’d produced). They felt underpaid, and weren’t going to give the management one thing more than the bare minimum. They also resented the kids for having professional parents and better opportunities in life then they or their own kids were likely to have. The idea that I was giving them even MORE of an advantage by building vocabulary words or spatial awareness–the very things the brochures and trainings emphasized–was an affront to their “lying on the ground and bring ignored was good enough for ME, dang it” mindset.

            Maybe I’m spoiled from doing reenactments. I know broadsword fighters who do needlepoint, people who never finished college because they were working three shifts to pay for it and started to fall asleep at the wheel, but they can brew an amazing hippocras from a 15th-century recipe, and discuss the results with the 2nd-century recipe another reenactor used. One lady fighter who got all banged up on her arms said she was going to tell her boss at the print shop she got poison ivy camping, because it was easier than trying to explain to a mundane (non-reenactor). One friend who’s had a series of McJobs does the most amazing embroidery. Others are fluent in Old Norse.

            I just wasn’t prepared for people who not only don’t want to know anything themselves, but don’t even want anyone else to know anything.

          5. Violetta says:

            TS;

            Technically, my mother was the sly one. My father didn’t see anything shameful about his behavior: after all, being clobbered with a razor strop while hearing, “Stop that crying, you little shite, or I’ll crack your head open like a coconut!” had been good enough for him, hadn’t it?

          6. A Victor says:

            Violetta, this comment sent chills down my back, it has every time I read it. I am so sorry you endured this treatment.

          7. A Victor says:

            Wait, I said that wrong! I am so sorry you had this treatment hoisted on you as a child and that you were forced to endure it! That’s what I meant! It wasn’t right.

          8. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Violetta,

            I’m glad the package about handling work narcs gave you a feeling of control. Not as in ‘I control you’ but reassurance that you could see what was happening and likely to happen.

            I would never have considered that people could work in that field and feel resentment towards a defenceless baby. Everything you describe though makes sense, which makes me very naive.

            I hit this brick wall sometimes. Cognitively, I understand that what you write about the narc employees is correct, but emotionally there is a huge disconnect, where I just can’t comprehend it,
            then it just doesn’t make sense at all. I can’t force my empathy down that road to bring on any understanding or reasonable excuse for that behaviour.

            The same for your situation growing up. Cognitively I understand why the narcissist behaves that way. I can’t imagine how they can bring themselves to do it though. I thought a lot about your first post. The money on the bedside table, ‘ just in case’, no child should have to live like that. It’s all wrong. Narcs have no empathy. Got it. I understand what it means, why they can do what they do. It’s the how they can do what they do I can’t accept, bad enough with abuse of adults, but kids, that constitutes a whole new level of low.

            Even animals look after their young. Mama duck herds her ducklings along the river bank. It’s instinct. For narcissism to corrupt this instinct that you would find in a damn duck, is almost beyond belief. Animals will even help the young of another species on occasion. There’s an unwritten code, children are worth more than the adult, animals understand that. Here we are though, top of the food chain and there are stories like yours. Thousands of variations on a theme, all distressing.

            I read on here sometimes, then I herd the kids to pack school bags, finish homework, get off their phones, whatever silly task it might be. They can drive me mad sometimes but even on a really outstandingly crap and belligerent day, I still look at them and my heart just swells. I just can’t imagine looking at that pair and feeling nothing. Yet that’s what narcissists feel. Sweet FA on the positive side.

            The repeating of a cycle is a scary thing. It was good enough for me, so it’s good enough for you. Again I see where it comes from but in terms of excuses, it’s no where near good enough. I’m imagining that your dad was a lesser and your mum mid range. HG is right, they’re all as bad as each other.

            Sorry, I didn’t mean for this to turn into a rant. At least I didn’t go full Billy Budd, that would be awful. 😉

            On a lighter note, the re-enactments, that particular group of people, (it sounds almost like a lifestyle) they sound fantastic. The detail and total commitment to the role is outstanding. It’s full escapism in a way I think, the opportunity to be whoever you want to be, within a whole different world and structure, everyone equal. It really appeals to me. I bet you’re awesome Violetta, really amazing, I’d love to see you in character.

            Xx

          9. Violetta says:

            Thank you, WhoCares. I did find it entertaining when GrinchLady would do exactly what HG had said she would do, although I couldn’t put physical distance between us or reduce my emotional.output, due to the nature of that job.

          10. Violetta says:

            Truthseeker6157:

            I have definitely thought that my father had Lesser characteristics (no filter whatever) and my mother had mid-range (blind to her own inconsistencies), but I’m not quite ready to go beyond saying they were probably highly narcissistic. They did good parenting things too, exposing us to culture, teaching us to ride bikes without the training wheels (Dad), learning embroidery and watching ballet (Mom), and reading to us doing the character’s voices, although much of that may have been seeing us as extensions of themselves. We got medical care when we needed it, and learned far more about literature and music at home than we ever did in school.

            My dad’s sister, however, was a stone-cold narcissist. Ignored her oldest son’s symptoms, dismissed his complaints as whining: turned out to be a heart murmur. Divorced her husband of decades because he bored her, then bitched because she didn’t get his pension when he died first. When Grandpa had died and Grandma was deteriorating, my Aunt flew in, took over Grandma’s funds–and instead of using them to support her in a care home, flew right back. Grandma had been found lying on the floor by neighbors, muttering “help me, help me.” My dad flew in, got a lawyer, and made sure grandma got proper care until the end. My mother sorted through grandma’s things and divided the jewelry between me and my aunt’s only daughter. My aunt offered to get the jewelry to my cousin, but my mother said no trouble at all, she would send it directly. Dad had heard enough of my aunt treating her own daughter as if she were competition.

          11. Asp Emp says:

            Violetta, I read what you had to say in relation to your parents, sounds like they were good parents, considering what they did for your grandmother. Firstly, I am sorry to read that you experienced the loss of them within a short period of each other and it would not have been easy for you. Reading further where you suggest about whether a NDC would assist you, I can understand that. Apologies to you and HG, if I appear to be over-stepping any boundaries, I wonder whether you would consider a TDC to give you insight in relation to both their empathic and narcissistic traits?

          12. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Violetta,

            It’s complicated isn’t it? When you describe your parents handling of your grandma’s old age and death, they sound like they were trying to do the decent thing. Similarly, the time taken with you as a child. Then you have the complete inverse in terms of sly and abusive behaviour. The two sets of behaviours appear to contradict each other. “If a person abuses you, they never loved you.” I think that might be the over riding factor in all of it. There’s only one way to know for sure and that’s the NDC. I totally get the fact that you need to be ready to find out though too.

            I don’t know if you still have involvement with your parents. If you don’t, finding out probably doesn’t impact you as much moving forward. If you do still have involvement, then in many ways you put yourself at risk by not knowing. Not necessarily from them as such, but from them raising your ET. We’re all vulnerable in that scenario. It’s not an easy decision to make, but try to put yourself and your own state of mind first. ET impacts everything, ability to cope with life’s ups and downs, decision making, self confidence, everything really. You know all this, I know you know all this! It’s just a reminder to think of yourself, finding out might not be pleasant, but it does enable you to make decisions and it does provide clarity.

            It’s very sad to think of your grandma stuck and without help. She must have been terrified that no one would come. To have your aunt fly in like a vulture is sickening. So many of their behaviours just don’t compute with us. For us, I think ‘other people’ are our equivalent of the Prime Aims. For them the Prime Aims relates to anything other than ‘other people’. In this sense, I don’t think we’ll ever truly understand narcissists. We’ll understand what lies behind their behaviours but I don’t think it’s possible for us to every fully relate.

            Xx

          13. Violetta says:

            TS:

            Mom died in ’09, Dad in ’11, but I’ll probably have to do NDCs eventually, just so I can cope with the life-long consequences.

            It’s easier to recognize that at least two elementary school teachers I had were mid-rangers, and textbook ones, at that. I admired them as a child, not seeing through their BS, but I didn’t love them. Even then, I felt vaguely guilty because two battle-axe teachers I didn’t like at all got better results with most of the students both academically and behaviorally, and I couldn’t understand why that was. Mrs. Poison Pollyanna and Miss Smiley-Face were so nice.

            You’re so nice
            You’re not good
            You’re not bad
            You’re just nice

            – Into the Woods

          14. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Violetta,

            I’m not an ACON as you know, so I’m likely the wrong person to give a worthwhile opinion. From my non ACON perspective, lifelong consequences are only lifelong consequences if I allow them to be.

            That is not to underplay the impact of a parental narcissist, at all.

            What I mean by it, is that no one is perfect. Most people have some baggage in some respect, the baggage forms part of who we are and it doesn’t have to be a bad thing. So unless you feel that your past is preventing you from moving forward, it’s hindering you in some way, then for me, there’s no lifelong consequence.

            Let’s assume every person carries some damage in some way, that damage is really only a problem if someone plays on it, exploits it to their advantage. Only the narcs do that. Navigate around the narcs and the damaged bits would just be accepted, ignored or possibly not even noticed by a normal or empath.

            You seem pretty fine to me Violetta. Apart from your subway thing, maybe avoid subways at the start 😉

            If you feel a need to know, or, you feel that certain aspects would fall into place, or be improved for your own benefit, then that’s a different thing, I’d say do the NDC, find your answers. If not though, if it wouldn’t change anything, wouldn’t have a tangible positive impact, I’d say, “What’s to be gained?” For me I’d need to feel that I was gaining something by taking the NDC. I wouldn’t find out just on the basis of an assumption that there are lifelong consequences.

            You got this far, you’re a really interesting, kind, funny, talented, open minded person. I honestly can’t think of a single person I know that doesn’t have some battle scars of some description. There’s no one I look at and think, “Yeah, they’ve really got their shit together!” Do those people even exist? I’m not sure they do you know!

            Xx

          15. Violetta says:

            Truthseeker:

            You have said very kind things, but my social.skills are warped. There’s the faking-normal I attempt at work and other public situations, and there’s the self I’m allowed to have in theatre, reenactments, hanging with theology geeks who prefer Latin Mass, interacting with kids and animals,etc.–as a friend said of reenactments, “Instant Social Life: just add Nerd.” I once heard a participant at a seminar say that gamers and re-enactors have no social.skills, and thought, “No, these are people with very keen skills dealing with each other, but they’ve had bad experiences dealing with Normies. If they’re lucky, they realize they have a better time with the freaks-n-geeks anyway, instead of trying to fake normal for the rest of their lives, even to themselves.”

            But yeah, I wonder if job interviewers, etc. can “tell.”

            Per Everclear:

            I will never be safe
            I will never be sane
            I will always be weird inside
            I will always be lame

            However, as Art Alexakis continues:

            Now I’m a grown man
            With a child of my own
            And I swear, I’ll never let her know
            All the pain I have known

            I don’t have kids, but when I’ve been the caregiver for other people’s, I make sure I don’t engage in the kind of emotional manipulations I experienced and witnessed when I was growing up, let alone inflict or allow physical damage.

            I used to have my students watch first Everclear’s “Father of Mine,” then Nirvana’s “Sliver.” Form equals function: the Everclear video tells a coherent story in flashbacks of growing up alienated, but having music as a lifeline the entire time. “Sliver” has the chaotic viewpoint of a frantic toddler, with jump-cuts, no clear indication if this was just one incident or repeated incidents blurred together, and most of the lyrics being Kurt screaming, “Grandma take me home!”

            I think they’re both brilliant vids, but the fact that Art remembers while Kurt relives makes it not entirely surprising that Kurt couldn’t form (or stick to) the resolution Art did: that he was not going to inflict the same chaos on his own kid, or abandon her to it.

            Art’s song has a better message, but I’m not convinced it’s the greater piece of art. Kurt is like a Romantic poet:
            the explosion is cathartic for all of us.

            Sorry for rambling reply. Of course, the irony here is most of the people I considered (and definitely considered themselves) “Normies” were almost certainly mid-range narcissists.

          16. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Violetta,

            Thank you for your reply. I listened to the two songs you mentioned, it’s interesting, I think in many ways the Nirvana song actually tells more of a story than the Everclear song. That’s the beauty of anything artistic though, it’s what is interpreted by the listener that is most important.

            I think the feeling that your social skills are warped can be felt by a lot of people to a greater or lesser extent. I remember when I was in SC, I felt like I was a different species altogether. I couldn’t connect, was trapped in a bubble that was so materialistic and shallow that it knocked the breath out of me. I could pretend, play the game as required, but inside I was quite literally feeling starved of oxygen.

            I was still me, I was just me in the wrong environment. I think we all make an effort to fit in to different environments, work, social whatever. I don’t see you as unusual there. For me, the important thing is finding the right group, right area, right friends etc. There’s nothing wrong with you, there’s nothing wrong with me. I can blend in as required but long term we all need to know where we fit and where we can just be ourselves without having to blend in all the time. If that’s in the Geek group or the theatre group or the punk group, that’s fine, the trick is actually knowing where you fit and recognising what it is you need from colleagues, friends, relationships. Get that part wrong and you end up just withdrawing into yourself and starting the slow decline down a very slippery slope.

            I thought about you and the NDC, mulled it over and I ended up thinking that actually, I think the EDC and TDC would be more helpful. I’m far kinder to and accepting of myself since having taken those two consults. We have the narcissists that mess us up to varying degrees but once we are out of those relationships, we are left with just ourselves. We move forward by ourselves. So really, I think a lot of that is just accepting ourselves as we are. Those consults really helped me to do that. Seeing my breakdown of narcy versus empathic traits helped things fall into place. HG even said to me in my last consultation “You are going to feel like that TS, you’re an empath.” And I suddenly thought, “HG’s right, I am and that part I can’t change, so there’s no point me thinking I can change that feeling either. I have to accept it and learn to work more effectively within those parameters.”

            I don’t do the new age stuff. I don’t do positive affirmations or meditation or any of that, if that works for people, great, it doesn’t work for me. What does work though, is someone saying, “This is you, this is how your personality is put together, these are your drivers, these are your traits, you can’t change those, but you can change some behaviours to make your life easier.” I think maybe understanding more about yourself might prove more valuable than doing the NDC. It made a big difference to me and ordinarily, I’m very self critical. I’m definitely more accepting of myself now though.

            Xx

      3. lickemtomorrow says:

        HG, I sense the same element of frustration when it comes to HW and people’s interest residing in the fact they dislike her more than a burgeoning interest in narcissism. They’re getting instruction and entertainment when it comes to both, so hopefully they will take some of that understanding of narcissism on board.

        I also agree with you on how the ‘tabloid’ element demonstrates much of what is wrong with people, in the sense they are looking at the ‘wrong’ thing – looking for the sensationalist aspect of the work or stories and not seeking to learn from what they are being shown. I can see how that leaves them vulnerable to being ensnared and abused and they definitely don’t help themselves.

        Glad you shared those thoughts, HG. They have been on my mind as well.

    2. lickemtomorrow says:

      TS, have to agree with you around the issue of frustration in terms of hits, and I thoroughly enjoyed HG’s video on “Manipulation: Lists” which rang so many bells for me. I’ve actually taken a break from the majority of HW videos, simply for the fact I’m trying to keep my blood pressure down 😛 I prefer the blog in terms of commenting, but the videos are excellent for reinforcing the messaging about narcissism in a different and very popular way. Who knows, HW may draw people in to take a look at these other videos which I’m sure is what HG hopes for, too, so that his knowledge and understanding can be spread far and wide.

      The breadth of his work assures interest from many different angles and therefore could benefit many different people depending on what draws them the most. There are plenty of options to hold and keep people’s interest while also helping them to gain some insight <3

      1. Truthseeker6157 says:

        LET,

        Yes agree. I like the blog because I’m better at visual than auditory learning. I also need to turn ideas around in my mind and the blog enables me to do this. I get different perspectives from other readers. I’m not an ACON so reading the comments from those who are, adds a different perspective to my own thoughts on things.

        I use the videos in a similar way to you, primarily reminding and reinforcing. New content I listen to a few times to force it into my poor addled brain! Plus, even when the videos are based on an article I’ve read, there’s often extra information and extra explanation added in as HG thinks whilst he’s talking.

        Haha! Yes I understand your comment about watching your blood pressure. Harry’s Wife infuriates me far more than she should. Then I listen and HG is so sarcastic that I find I can listen without wanting to break something!

        The more platforms and more styles of delivery, the more there is something to resonate with people. You’re totally right.

        I listened to the video about Andrew’s Teddy bears last night. That’s an interesting one. I’d read the newspaper article and had my own theory on it. I actually got the control, fuel, triangulation element but I was wrong in another aspect. I thought that Andrew used the bears as symbols for people. Essentially seeing the bear would be like seeing the person. The Sarah Ferguson bear was outside the bedroom for example. They’re divorced, so she has to sit outside! Haha! Different bears bought at different times in his life, so a marker to that time period and the key person within that time period. Apparently not haha! Do you think I overthink? I think I overthink! 😂

        Xx

        1. lickemtomorrow says:

          TS, I’m also a more visual than auditory learner, which means I also can’t listen to audible books! It’s not my way of retaining information and also not the way I enjoy receiving it for the most part. Audios are tolerable to me if they are short and succinct (don’t push it out further than 20-30 mins for the most part), and that is purely on a listening basis. If I have something to visually capture my attention at the same time – say a documentary program with visuals – then it’s not an issue. I need to see what I am hearing, if that makes sense 😛 The only difference is when it is an interview in HG’s case where I can see the interviewer, or the “Ask HG” (YAY, I see there’s more today 🙂 ) where the question and answer format somehow engages me better … perhaps I’m visualizing the questioners in my mind 🙂 Horses for courses.

          Definitely we chew things over in a different way on the blog and no doubt having both options creates a wider reach which is the most important thing. I enjoy reading comments under the videos because people also add lots of interesting perspectives there along with some hilarious comments and plenty of love for HG <3

          I've often wondered how pre-prepared the videos are in terms of HG "thinking whilst he's talking." Obviously there's a great deal of preparation in gathering the information and filling in the narcissistic blanks in relation to that, but is it written out like a script to be read, are there a few scrawled notes which HG brings together as he explains to us what we need to know, or does HG just read the article and have it before him as he interprets the elements of the narcissistic dynamic for us? Whatever way it is done, there is a lot of hard work behind it, as we are not just being offered one video a day like many other YT'ers, many just doing one a week, etc.

          I actually don't have high blood pressure, but HW is infuriating to me and it's probably only HG's sense of humour that helps to take that down a notch or two for me. You're right about that. I get myself all worked up as I see the seriousness of the dilemma she poses, and HG creates space to make fun of some of the antics with his unique perspective. Thank heavens because otherwise it's all doom and gloom from my perspective.

          Part of the beauty of what HG does is make himself accessible to people as well. He does that via phone, email, on the blog and YT, no doubt the other platforms he uses too. But he is uniquely available to us in a myriad of different ways. And I promised I'd sing his praises about one of the ways he is available which is through his 20 Tudor Minutes 🙂 I availed of this option again recently and I can't tell you how in awe I am of his talents with regard to what he was able to deliver. My request rested on his thespian skills which no doubt have been well noted in his delivery of other material – you mentioned Wuthering Heights, and what a treat it is for us to hear him read one of his favourites – and I can categorically state he could have played the part and I would have been convinced. The delivery was phenomenal <3 Kudos again, HG xox

          As to Andrew and his teddy bears, I found that a really offputting story. It disturbed me because of the childish element associated with teddy bears and his need to have them arranged 'just so' to the point of staff requiring a picture to make sure they were placed that way. The reason I found it disturbing is because it shows some profound lack or need related to his childhood and no doubt an element of the lack of control. I haven't watched the video yet, so I will do that to get a clearer picture of the narcissist element attached to it. I'm intrigued now to know what the bears symbolize, and am laughing at the Sarah Ferguson comment 😛 That thought made a whole lot of sense to me, but of course we defer to HG. Can't wait to see his take on it!

          You need not feel alone in your 'overthinking' antics, TS <3 I'm not sure if it's overthinking or 'thoughtfulness', and I prefer to think the latter xox

          1. Truthseeker6157 says:

            LET,

            Yes, I remember the conversation we had about learning styles, seeing what you are listening to makes perfect sense to me, and it isn’t necessarily having subtitles, it can be seeing someone talking (not possible here) or even associated images will plant information in my brain at key points. So if we were talking about things the narcissist might use to triangulate you with, animals, car, past girlfriends and an explanation about each one, images for animal, car, ex girlfriend would help me personally. That slows production though, so I can see why it would be a pain to do.

            I’m actually a kinaesthetic learner but am better at visual than auditory learning. I pace sometimes. I’ll read a comment I need to think about and find it impossible to sit still and think it through. As soon as I ‘get stuck’ or, reach for several ideas to form a view, I move around. Kind of odd haha! Walking the dog listening to the videos combines both my strongest and weakest styles and seems to work, though I do have to rewind sometimes. I also pace when I’m angry. I think that’s fragmentation of thought in a way, so the pacing might be to do with thought organisation. Good job it’s not me making the videos then!

            I wonder if Asp Emp paces as she receives more information to organise. I’ll have to ask her.

            I think it depends on the subject as to how HG delivers the video. Gabby Petito would be notes. I can hear the page turn sometimes. No supermarket A4 pad for HG! His notes are in a hardback book with thick paper, he likely shelves the books for reference. Just call me Sherlock.

            The videos based on blog articles are on screen. Extra information added on the fly as it occurs to him.

            The new videos, I think bullet points. HG follows the order of the bullet points but talks around them. That would be my estimation. If you know your subject as well as HG does, bullet points are likely enough. Ask me to talk about me, I’d only need bullet points. They’d have to be dotted around the room though, obviously, haha!

            The teddy bear story really was odd I agree. I think I associate Andrew as an evil character and teddy bears as symbols of innocence. Put those two things together and it produces a macabre impression. The article stood out to me, so I had thought about it. The video confirmed some thoughts and corrected others. I’m surprised Andrew isn’t embarrassed by his collection. Perhaps superiority and self entitlement trumps embarrassment for the narc. I wonder if narcissists are easily embarrassed on the whole? I can see a case why they might be, and a case why they wouldn’t be. I’ll have to add it to my consultation questions list.

            Thoughtful, I like that. I’ll take it! 😘

            Xx

          2. HG Tudor says:

            With my videos, they fall into the following categories :-

            1. Narration of existing blog articles. Self explanatory.
            2. Narration of a news article with my ad libbed observations a la Harry´s Wife.
            3. Bullet points which I expand on.
            4. Detailed notes – for instance where I am doing a video breakdown, although I often use a mix of bullet points and ad lib observation.
            5. Completely free style where I choose a topic and talk about it without any notes, bullet points, news article etc.

          3. lickemtomorrow says:

            Ah, HG, thank you 🙂

            It’s great to get an explanation of how the work is done. All of it is enjoyable, but interesting to get a sense of what goes on behind it.

          4. lickemtomorrow says:

            Hey TS, I never thought about the slowing down of production, so you may definitely have a point there, especially in relation to HG’s phenomenal output. He wouldn’t be able to do as much as he does if he had to add more elements which in some ways could also distract from the messaging. Very much down to an individual’s learning style and how they retain information.

            Interesting about the pacing, TS 🙂 It is a way to help organize your thoughts and I know my son paces a lot when talking on the phone which is probably also an element of focus for him. You combining walking and listening is probably a lot like him walking and talking! I don’t pace, at all. I have to sit still to focus. One way in which we are very different <3

            Wow, you can hear the page turn? That's so interesting. I remember us having a conversation a while ago about various background noises in HG's videos. The 'pinging' noise, which is likely some form of msg coming through, but I also thought could be a timing element of some kind – like this is the five minute warning, you're time is almost up 😛 The chair doesn't seem to 'creak' anymore, but that was another sound I thought I heard.

            LOL to you being Sherlock 😉 It's fun to speculate on some of these things and I see where you are going with the library full of reference books with HG's notes encapsulated therein. One thing I couldn't imagine is HG 'binning' his notes. Oh no. HG would not waste a word, he would not correct himself for the most part, and being the narcissistic psychopath that he is will see whatever he does as beyond reproach. So, no red pen, lines crossed out, second guessing or editing.

            Whatever way he does it, HG has it all in hand <3

            I did listen to HG's video about Andrew and his teddy bears and thanks for referring me to it for further explanation. HG made it fun, of course, and putting the narcissistic explanation on it makes it less of an emotional subject for me. This is where I experience a 'blindspot' sometimes not coming from the narcissistic perspective. I had things I ordered as a child which formed part of my need to gain control in a lack of control environment. My mother would move these things and I would know. It was part of her sense of entitlement and lack of boundary recognition. It was also part of her need for control and my inability to have control in the circumstances. She overrode me as an individual in numerous ways. In some ways I could relate to the need to have things put back in their right order, and being upset if they weren't, though I admit in Andrew's case there does seem to be an excess of teddy bears! I can see how the macabre impression was created for you with the combined sense of innocence and evil. Opposite and very strong perspectives.

            I also don't think 'embarrassment' and 'narcissist' go together 😛 You're probably correct in saying their sense of grandiosity and entitlement trumps any sense of embarrassment normally. That is not to say they can't be wounded. Andrew might not be embarrassed about his teddy bear collection, but he might be wounded by someone not taking the proper care of it and therefore he lashes out about that (was that in HG's video? I'm probably repeating what was said there, which means I'm taking it in 🙂 )

            Might need to go back and listen to this one again xox

          5. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Thank you HG.

            Complete free style is interesting. It pairs with knowing your subject inside out, but if recording yourself I’d still expect to hear more disfluencies of language. You’re speaking from memory and understanding though as opposed to creating a story of an event, that might be the reason.

            I’ve been looking at psychopaths and speech, so I try to listen closely!

          6. lickemtomorrow says:

            “I’ve been looking at psychopaths and speech, so I try to listen closely!”

            Sherlock or one of the good doctors, TS? xox

          7. Truthseeker6157 says:

            LET,

            Funnily enough, I’ve read that before about Sherlock Holmes being a psychopath. It was a discussion about whether he was a sociopath or a psychopath. I can’t remember which one they decided, sociopath I think.

            One of the good doctors is a psychopath? Really? Nooooo, really? Haha.

            Xx

          8. Truthseeker6157 says:

            LET,

            Your son pacing on the phone is funny, I do that too. Also, I tend to let my phone go to answer a lot, because I’m particular about being able to concentrate when I call back.

            The background noises. The chair squeaks far less. I think the minions might have been castigated for that one, although, I do still hear it very occasionally. Yes, definitely the turning of a page and high quality paper. I’ve heard the top go on the Mont Blanc pen too. Distinctive click. There was a lovely pause and a really emphasised breathing in one of tonight’s videos too. I almost questioned if HG was doing it on purpose just to drive us wild. Interesting idea that the ping was a timer, I didn’t consider that. You sometimes get ping then pause though so I think it’s an email coming in.

            It makes me laugh that we discuss this. I think it’s down to the visualisation aspect. We can’t see the lead character so we focus on the set. We’re essentially filling in a picture.

            Totally agree, no red pen, no crossing out. HG has mentioned how specific he is about organisation. I imagine that his notes are neat, written in fountain pen. I think this would be part of the control aspect.

            I don’t believe HG mentioned wounding in the teddy bear video, I might be wrong there. Wounding would make sense if the bears were in the wrong position and no one was there, I think. The fun you could have with that!

            I can understand very much why you hated your things being moved. My mum was similar, it’s likely where my obsession with privacy comes from. I always knew my mum had been routing through my things too. My mum has very poor boundary recognition overall. She invades my personal space to this day, stands too close, so I back up, she steps forward, we end up doing this kind of dance around the room! Like you, I’m tidy, organised, apart from kitchen cupboards which look like a bomb went off in them but the surfaces are clear.

            You mentioned Tudor Minutes in your earlier post. I’m still saving mine. I have two more sets. I don’t really know why I’m saving them, but I am! I’m curious as to what you asked for now too. HG is very talented, so there are so many options!

            Xx

          9. lickemtomorrow says:

            TS, interesting that you let your phone go to answer so you can be more prepared in your response. I tend to pick mine up right away because there’s a good chance it’s one of the children and I’m geared to respond <3 They email me if I don't pick up 😛

            Ooohh, I'll have to listen more carefully for the chair again, and poor minions 🙁 I hope they didn't have to spend too long in the dungeon! Your hearing must be acute or very finely tuned if you can estimate the weight of the paper and even know when it is being turned … now I'm going to listen out for the pen as well xox I have no doubt that HG would determine to drive you wild if you gave him the option to do so and his breathing in that episode could be part of his method 😉 That pause always get to me … I think it's the anticipation – "Where are you HG?", "Has something happened to you?", "Why aren't you speaking?" – and also the fear. Yes, ping then pause … what does it mean? The ping is an interruption. I would have thought HG would not want to be interrupted while he is recording, but a little dollop of fuel from an email might just power him to keep moving forward. Alternatively, he is timing himself as he has much to say or must regulate the time to fit everything in, so he sets a timer to do that. I know he has an hourglass to time his consultations … the sands of time.

            Definitely filling in the picture, TS 🙂

            Still have to go back and listen to the teddy bear video again. Will do that shortly! I don't know where I got the idea of wounding from if it wasn't in the video, but most likely me putting my own interpretation on something HG said.

            Thanks for understanding my distress at having my things moved, and mothers can be very invasive though not always intentionally. Sounds like your mother was a bit intentional in what she was doing. Poor boundary recognition can be a red flag depending on a variety of factors, and some people just like to get up close and personal. Not sure if your mother is one of those people, but I can see how it makes you uncomfortable. An empath would take note of that right away and not seek to keep coming closer. In fact, we might even create more distance for the sake of the other person's comfort. I think creating physical distance can also be a sign of creating emotional distance, too. I know you've said before that there exists some kind of barrier between you and your mother and the dance around the room probably goes to show that's still in place. I never liked my mother touching me. It always felt so unnatural, and even creepy.

            Good to know your counter is tidy even if the cupboards are not 😛 No one knows what goes on behind closed doors, TS 😉 Everything has a place in my home, so basically I know where to put my hand on something when I need it, but I'm not nearly as focused as I used to be on nothing being out of place, if that makes sense. I'd drive myself mad with three kids if that was the case, and maybe it's because I don't need to create control the way I used to in a LOCE. I can relax more now.

            You are saving your Tudor Minutes? I'm sure you'll think of something when the time is right, there are so many options! I was inspired more recently with regard to my request, and I prefer to keep it under wraps simply because it was so perfect and I don't want to spoil it by sharing it. I will say it was a movie script and the script for a particular character. I believed HG would play the part perfectly, and he did <3 Just added to the fantasy for me xox

          10. HG Tudor says:

            Careful LET, you used the word “dungeon”. Apparently, you are not allowed to that anymore in a fun way otherwise you will er, end up in the dungeon.

          11. lickemtomorrow says:

            Haha, HG.

            As long as it’s your dungeon 😉

          12. HG Tudor says:

            There is no other.

          13. lickemtomorrow says:

            Now I’m blushing … 🙂

          14. Asp Emp says:

            Hilarious, HG 🙂

          15. Truthseeker6157 says:

            LET,

            Haha, my cupboards are like my own personal Vegas! I’m a gene away from OCD on surfaces floors and beds though, and I’m constantly tidying up at the back of the kids, and the dog, and the kids, round and round it goes!

            Yes, the high quality paper turning, definitely definitely. The Mont Blanc was a joke as you know, although, I might have heard that go down on the pad during the last YouTube impromptu.

            There’s a role reversal in my house, it’s very much, ‘Mum, keep your phone in your pocket so I can let you know when I need picking up.’ Haha. I have never once picked them up late. Usually they text first, they know I’m primed for the ping not the ring. The phone thing is listed as an INFJ quirk too and for the same reason as mine. Similarly, leaving the house when a neighbour is outside. I’ll avoid that too. Another INFJ quirk. It isn’t that I don’t like my neighbour, or I’m antisocial, it’s simply because I don’t do small talk. So I talk to my neighbour when I have time for a proper conversation, but hate to see them there when I don’t.

            You made me chuckle with you’re reaction to the pauses, “Where has HG gone?” Haha. Meanwhile I’m listening thinking, “Breathe, come on, let’s hear you!” No idea why I dig the breathing, but I really dig the breathing! 😂

            Yes, don’t spoil the magic of your Tudor minutes, I’m just glad you enjoyed them so much. I have been toying with an idea but it’s more research based and I’m not sure HG would like the request, I need to think about it some more. It’s stuck in my head though so, knowing me…!

            If you are going to the place that must not be mentioned, even in jest, take plenty of photos and keep your eye out for broken spinny chairs!

            Which reminds me, “pinny”. HG said that the other day, that made me smile, proper northern and, my grandma used to say it.

            Little things.

            Xx

          16. lickemtomorrow says:

            Haha, TS, your cupboards sound like fun 🙂 An element of excitement built in x

            I know all about the round and round with kids and pets as well … it’s like you’re set to automatic pilot and see there’s a sock, pick it up, put it in the basket, and so on. I need to have tidy, even if I don’t need perfection.

            I like that – “primed for the ping and not the ring” As long as they can get a hold of you when they need to they’ll be happy 🙂 I can see that being an INFJ quirk and the one about the neighbour is interesting. I can very much relate to that and I’m not one for small talk either. I’d rather avoid those more superficial occasions and not have to interact if possible. It’s odd because when I have to I will engage with other people no problem. It’s easy for me to be on my own, though. In fact, sometimes it’s preferable!

            I’m going to have to listen out for this breathing 😉 I think you should use 20 Tudor Minutes for that … just ask HG to breath into the microphone for 20 minutes! Your other idea based around research sounds interesting. HG will let you know one way or the other. Never any harm in asking as they say. Maybe you can get both with two Tudor Minutes up your sleeve 🙂

            Haha to the place that must not be mentioned 😛 If I’m going there I’ll look for the spinny chair, and I think HG would confiscate any cameras. I’m hoping Bruce Willis has escaped by now, but if not I’m sure he and I could fill in some time talking about his Super Saviour empathic traits 😉

            Awww, it is the little things, TS <3 Pinny short for pinafore? HG has some of those colloquialisms down xox Sounds like a happy memory, too 🙂

          17. lickemtomorrow says:

            OMG, I’m going to kill the emoji’s after reading that one back! Sorry, HG.

          18. A Victor says:

            “No idea why I dig the breathing…” It’s the most intimate sound, the most testosterone filled masculine, manly sound that has ever been made, right from his lungs/nose/mouth straight into my ears, via my phone of course…that’s why, for me anyway…🥰…it’s the only thing I envy SM for… she gets to hear it all the time.

          19. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Haha AV, that did make me chuckle!

            Xx

          20. A Victor says:

            TS, I guess this makes me weird…but I own it! 😂

          21. Truthseeker6157 says:

            AV,

            Haha, one person’s weird is another’s quirky is another’s run of the mill. Empaths are mischievous beings and it’s good to be able to laugh together and laugh at ourselves at the same time.

            Thanks to our gracious moderator for taking us in his stride and allowing us our social time.

        2. Violetta says:

          We’re not allowed to mention the….place where Celine Dion is inflicted on the incarcerated on a repeating loop? When did that start?

          1. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Violetta,

            Well, I could tell you, but then I might end up in ‘the graveyard of broken spinny chairs’.

            I’m northern, subtle isn’t my middle name. But, clue in the title. Also, an excuse to post an excellent song (with HG’s kind permission of course)

            https://youtu.be/257aE9OCSfQ

            Xx

          2. lickemtomorrow says:

            What if you like Celine Dion? Hardly a punishment if that’s the case 🙂

          3. Z - zwartbolleke says:

            Violetta,

            Mr Tudor referred to this comment in a sarcastic way by saying to LET: “Careful LET, you used the word “dungeon”. Apparently, you are not allowed to that anymore in a fun way otherwise you will er, end up in the dungeon.”

            Without the conversation in Down, you do not have the cadre to understand Mr Tudor’s remark.

          4. Violetta says:

            If you like Celine Dion, what in God’s name are you doing here?

          5. lickemtomorrow says:

            Haha, Violetta, I do not like Celine Dion.

            I was just taking a thought to its logical conclusion 😉

            Adele needs to go under the Tudorscope, IMO.

          6. Violetta says:

            Z – zwartbolleke:

            Thanks for link. Oh dear, what led up to THAT? I haven’t followed every thread, so I didn’t see whichever conversations were interpreted as “gaseous campaigns.”

          7. Z - zwartbolleke says:

            Violetta,

            “Oh dear, what led up to THAT?”

            Uhmm, I could explain it, but let’s leave the past in the past!
            No need going through that again!

          8. Violetta says:

            LET:

            Adele’s boyfriend may be the narc. It sounds like he has been giving her all kinds of bad advice, including telling her that she isn’t sufficiently demanding, and people won’t take her seriously unless she is. Apparently, evey time she got off the phone with him when she was in Vegas, she’d be in tears.

            Like you, I’d be interested to see what HG has to say on the subject. This could be one of those situations where the narc makes the victim look so bad (Johnny Depp, anyone?) that spotting the narc becomes more difficult for the general public.

          9. lickemtomorrow says:

            Hi Violetta,

            That’s interesting and thanks for filling me in a little more.

            I don’t know anything about the boyfriend, but apparently there is also talk about him becoming her manager? That sounds like part of the narcissistic dynamic also (i.e. complete takeover or control of somebody else’s life. She may be being manipulated and controlled to a certain extent. I did watch a body language piece on her call re: the cancellation in Vegas and it appears there was a level of insincerity noted there. To let so many people down at such short notice is pretty naff. How much that was down to her or down to him (upsetting phone calls) is hard to know. He does appear to have been unsupportive of her during the crisis. Another sign of the narcissist. He may well have instigated the crisis if Adele is currently in devaluation. There are definitely signs of that going by news reports and it sucks to be her if that’s the case. We’ve all been there. I wonder how her Valentine’s Day was? After reading HG’s article again today on Valentine’s Day it could have gone either way. There’s a good chance we’ll hear about it which could be an interesting insight again when it comes to high profile celebs. Thanks for sharing your thoughts around that 🙂

          10. A Victor says:

            Adele is on a list, an HG list.

          11. lickemtomorrow says:

            Ooohh, I didn’t know that, AV. Thanks for the heads up! Do you know which one?

            I better check the ones I already have just in case I’ve got it already 😉

          12. A Victor says:

            I cannot tell, and empath list or a narcissist list…🙄

          13. lickemtomorrow says:

            Dang, AV 😛 I still haven’t looked at the lists I’ve got, so I’ll have to do that. Thanks again.

          14. Violetta says:

            Z:

            You don’t have to explain it, but I’d appreciate a link from you or someone else. I just want to read the relevant interactions, and then, as HG so often advises, draw my own conclusions.

            I’m not going to take sides in an expired debate or stir up a conflict which, for all I know, HG has declared closed, as he did one extensive conversation some time back.

          15. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Violetta,

            The thread being referred to is Down. May 7th 2021.

            Apart from the suck my dick anomaly. Not sure whose dick was offered up for the sucking or if the dick offer has since been rescinded. Basically, I know nothing about sucking dicks. Allegedly.

          16. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Violetta,

            I have pointed you to the relevant Down thread. However, something just isn’t sitting right with me. This is indeed the thread being discussed, but, I would also like to point you to This Minset Equals Victory Jan 2021. A similar style of discussion and one which offers a balance and contrast to the Down thread.

            Xx

          17. Z - zwartbolleke says:

            A Victor, LET,

            Adele is on the ‘The Weighty Eighty’ List!

            x

          18. A Victor says:

            Oh right, I could’ve said that one, since there are both E’s and N’s on it…thank you Z!

          19. lickemtomorrow says:

            Thank, Z! I checked my lists last night and I have FIVE, but she’s not on those and now I know why. I don’t have the Weighty Eighty list yet, so once I garner my membership to HG’s YT channel, I will also garner the discount to get this 🙂 You are a sleuth xox

          20. Violetta says:

            Truthseeker:

            Thank you for both. Rather than use up more of my high-speed, I copied the entire Down Convo into a Word document, so I can read it more or less chronologically. I will do the same with This Mindset Equals Victory Jan 2021.

          21. Truthseeker6157 says:

            Violetta,

            Thanks for letting me know. I just didn’t think it right to use one thread as a representative sample that’s all. It was bothering me! I’ll leave you to draw your own conclusions now.

            Xx

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