Valentine Venom : Part 2

 

 

 

 

 

And so to today, Valentine’s Day.

It was time for Gillian to be punished for her three prior transgressions where she had wounded me.

Gillian who thinks she is far more capable in her position as head of her department than she actually is. Gillian who adopts the role of involved mentor, caring boss, attentive listener and champion of the oppressed.

Bullshit.

All part of her facade and I saw through it a long time ago.

She is a Mid Range Narcissist. Of course, she does not know it. She is one of the Angels With Dirty Faces 

Thinks she cares but snipes about others behind their backs, raises complaints that she has been overlooked in some regard (and always plays the equality card to do so) and issues global e-mails in that typical passive aggressive manner whilst sucking up the fuel from her dedicated appliances who regard her as some champion of women’s rights in the workplace.) If only they knew.

If only they knew she only does it for those Prime Aims. She is reasonably effective at maintaining her facade in front of her underlings so they look at her with starry-eyes and declarations of loyal dedication. I know of her unguarded comments about the “oompa loompas” (a section of perma-tanned support staff) and her contempt for a particular section of her department that she inherited and would rather do without but they are all female and therefore too damaging to her facade if she were to jettison them. I know the real reasons she created the book club at the business (all female of course). I know how she flirts with particular colleagues, but always denies she is doing so (“We just get along very well”, “We connect as friends, nothing more.”) There are holes in the facade and they will be exploited, but all in good time.

What I also know about is the fact that her long-term partner, Ted or Tony or is it Toby, begins with a T anyway, is emasculated and long-suffering. Under the auspices of business development Gillian engages in intimate interactions with men ranging from flirtation and cock-teasing through to corporate conference shagathons. She has a gaggle of admirers who think they have a chance of something concrete with her and she absolutely revels in the attention she receives from them but also in ensuring colleagues know all about it. Gillian always shows off the thoughtful gifts which arrive at the office sent by these admirers. She flounces through the business clutching the latest bouquet with a look of delight plastered all over her face. She gathers her coterie together to tell them about the invitations to Wimbledon, Glyndebourne or the Emirates Stadium and of course there then follows the dissection of the event following her attendance. Of course she pretends she is loyal to Ted/Tony/Toby and states “I cannot help it if other men wish to be generous towards me, who wouldn’t say yes? Of course all they get from me is my company,” she asserts in her righteous St Gillian manner.

(Tell that to the director at PrimeCorp whose back was raked by her talons that all he got was her company. )

So today is one of those days where Gillian will arrive at the office in great expectation for the fuel fest that always develops on Valentine’s Day. A day of flowers, expensive bottle of fragrance, wine, jewellery and similar all couriered to the business, a consequence of the desire for anonymity, discretion and practicality.

Gillian will be expecting to turn her office into a florist’s shop. She expects to be inviting her team to ooh and aah at the luscious gift sets from Harvey Nick’s, praising the impeccable choice of those admirers. Every year it happens and it is sickening.

But it did not happen this year.

It did not happen this year because Gillian needed to be punished.

It did not happen this year because Gillian’s expectation became mild curiosity which gave way to puzzlement and became annoyance and then the tears. Oh how they flowed, hunched over her desk, her shame rampant as she let those tears flow crying for herself naturally but blame-shifting by saying she had been promised this and that and how could they be so rude and impolite.

Her office was devoid of the effects of admiration and romance. Even worse, all around her others received the flowers, the confectionery and the expensive flourishes. They were elated and she felt eroded.

Her coterie clucked and gathered around suggesting that the fault must lie with the couriers and today was of course a very busy day and the gifts will most likely come tomorrow. She snapped at some, unable to contain her own ignited fury as she continued to be wounded by the failure of these admirers to deliver as usual. The carefully constructed caring facade was punctuated by these moments of sharp, heated fury until the startled and apologetic response from a secretary or analyst gave her the fuel to address the wounding to some degree so her fury abated. She descended into her immense Pity Play lapping up the sympathy as she fought to address the wounding caused by this immense systemic failure. Her world was collapsing but the fuel from her coterie was flowing and it needed to. Of course Gillian was oblivious to what was really occurring, she just saw this as the treachery and nastiness of men, the slippery nature of players who were only after one thing. Her invective flicked from a scathing appraisal of self-centred alpha males as she engaged in projection and blame-shifting to then explaining why it hurt so much (“He (being Toby/Tony/Ted tries, he really does but you know what it can be like, it gets predictable and he doesn’t mind that I get all this attention, he knows it is part of the job.” – Sure he does, you mean he dare not complain otherwise he ends up with a glacial silent treatment for two weeks).

One of her special days has been utterly ruined. Marvellous.

I ensured I was at the business today to witness this unravelling and most of all to savour the delicious fuel that has flowed steadily and in large amounts for most of the day. Why? Because this was my fuel. I caused it. Gillian does not know, but that does not matter – I know I caused it and thus the frustration, the annoyance, the irritation and most of all the misery is all fuel for me.

Our Head Receptionist is Tania. A capable lady who runs a tight ship of efficient and effective receptionists. The smiling and engaging face of the hidden darkness of the business. Tania is a Super Empath – no doubt about it. Fair, honest and supportive and willing to move mountains to assist, but mess her around, lack gratitude or worst of all, belittle her team’s contribution to what the business achieves and ka-boom,  Tania strikes back.

Tania is one of my Lieutenants. She is well-rewarded for her contribution to the smooth running of the Tudor Empire within the business. My requests jump the queue, information is obtained for me, favours readily carried out. Oh, it comes with a price but it is one which is very much worth paying. So much flows through the reception team of an organisation that they are absolutely crucial to recruit to the cause.

And one of the many things that flows through reception are deliveries.

When that third wounding was occasioned by Gillian, I applied my mind to how I would punish her and as I was checking my diary and saw V-Day approaching I knew that this day was the most appropriate one to exact that revenge over her.

I was pushing on an open door with Tania. Already a Lieutenant and she hates Gillian for her hypocrisy (ha – if only she knew!) and high-handed haughtiness towards her and her team. She also heard Gillian slating reception without foundation and thus her anticipation at what would pass was almost as great as my own.

Tania was instructed that all deliveries of bouquets for Gillian should have the card removed and replaced with an alternative one (suitably mysterious and always anonymous) and then delivered to a different recipient in the business. All other gifts would be checked to ensure there was no reference which would cause a problem and once suitably vetted either retained by Tania and her team or sent to somebody else in the business to delight them instead.

Accordingly, the usual and expected dozen or so of deliveries meant for Gillian never reached her and went somewhere else. Many surprises were had today. Of course the items were signed for so the couriers could not be blamed for non-delivery if, in the unlikely event somebody queried if delivery had been effected.

None of the givers would ask if she had received the gifts, after all, they were always sent  anonymously. Gillian would not embarrass herself by even trying to ascertain from those she expected gifts from, if they had sent them for fear of additional rejection and wounding. Nor would she contemplate checking if there had been deliveries with reception – she would not engage direct with reception (her p.a. always did) and besides she knew Tania disliked her and therefore, as the cowardly Mid-Ranger she is, she would not want reception knowing she was bothered by the non-arrivals.

A simple interception and hugely effective.

And so today, so far, has proven its usual brilliant self for the games to be played and the fuel to flow.

As I left the business earlier, I saw Gillian sat at her desk, which seemed stark and bare compared to how it might ordinarily look on Valentine’s day and as I strode past, buoyed with the fuel from her (and others) I looked at her through the glass panels of her office and locked eyes with her. The dejection and defeat in her eyes sent a further shot of fuel in my direction and I raised both my hands making two Vs with my fingers.

Not the V-sign which is the British insult.

No.

V for victory.

Two Vs – Valentine Venom.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

40 thoughts on “Valentine Venom : Part 2

  1. Alison says:

    Gillian reminds me of my matrinarc, so this story brought me particular satisfaction.

  2. Violetta says:

    I used to wonder how Gillian didn’t put it together.

    She can’t, because she can’t acknowledge the fact that she isn’t universally loved. She can’t acknowledge it, because she can’t acknowledge the fact that she isn’t that lovable. Her kind of narcissism doesn’t even have Trump’s indignant recognition that many people still don’t like him, after all the Wonderful Things he’s done. She can’t see that Tanya might resent her not only for slights to herself but even more for slights to her team–not being truly protective, Gillian can’t process someone who actually is.

    She can’t even process the fact that HG might view her as a business rival even without her criticism, because she was doing it For His Own Good, plus the good of the company, of course.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Well done.

      1. Violetta says:

        Thank you. I have been paying attention in class.

        What I’m still wondering is how she interpreted your “V” for Victory sign. Just another layer on a very bad day? Enough time had elapsed from the meeting so she wouldn’t associate it with your plan being accepted over hers.

  3. lickemtomorrow says:

    OMG, this is my revenge fantasy on a mid range narcissist who plagued me during my most recent relationship with the narc. It’s perfect! It took me 18 months to work her out and she is the one who put me on track to knowing about and understanding narcissism. She had a coterie and I had to reject friendships one by one after becoming more aware of her nature while others remained blind to it. I just backed off. There was no point in fighting it. I had to back off the other friendships because she had a penchant for gathering as much information as she could to use for her narcissistic purposes. The less info she had, the better. Unfortunately that meant that other who were blind to her nature would innocently pass on or even attempt to gather information on her behalf. She, too, was an overwhelming angel, constantly expressing concern where none really existed. I remember the first Christmas card I gave her was gushing in terms of what her friendship meant to me (I want to throw up just thinking about it now). Hers was along the lines of “Merry Christmas” … that’s it?! You’ve been acting like my best friend in the whole world (more or less) and then send this very cut and dried card and message that could have basically said “Fuck you!” Seriously. The contrast was amazing. Now I know I was being devalued. It happens in friendships, too. She was a bitch underneath the glowing exterior and I’m going to allow this story to satiate my sense and need for justice in her case, knowing that at least one mid range female narcissist got her comeuppance and from no less than the Ultra <3 It restores my faith in humanity and the fact that narcissists are the best people for beating other narcissists.

    I'm sorry, but I'm loving this story today. I read it before and it didn't click. This time I listened on YT. Don't know if that made a difference, but it finally sunk in. Revenge on the Mid Range Narcissist. That's what that story should be called. Could we have a revenge series, HG, as it can only be served up by the Ultra? We've seen them on their deathbeds, but how about the empaths need for revenge?

    I know you don't recommend it, but something about that would entertain me 🙂

    1. Asp Emp says:

      LET, wow. It is interesting how you begin to recognise and issue ‘revenge’ using your in-built empath grenades 🙂

      I also understand what you mean in having to back off friendships when you sense that one is talking with other people. I’d told one such ‘friend’ that she needs to go NC with the others she worked with. Has changed jobs since, so I will have to find out how the land lies so to speak and look out for red flags, if any.

      Hmmm, I like your suggestion RE: a ‘revenge’ series. I do not know if there is a Poll that exists on this blog in relation to empaths and their ‘revenge’.

      1. lickemtomorrow says:

        AspEmp, revenge in the sense I am using it here is the narcissist’s revenge, but with the empath’s need for justice, if that makes sense. Maybe along the lines of the HG Mauls series and the option to have a narcissist ‘mauled’. I forgot about that when I suggested a ‘revenge’ series, but seeing narcissist’s getting their comeuppance is a very real need at times. We want them to leave us alone, but the amount of damage they cause can also make us to want them to have a taste of their own medicine. It’s very much along the lines of how I experienced the ending of my last relationship and using the narcs tools of manipulation against him.

        I think the first time I read this story, the fact of her being a Mid Ranger totally passed me by, and then as I listened to the first video this time I thought “I wonder if she’s a narcissist?” Lo and behold, in the second video, HG clearly states she is one and I took in the description around that. The first time I would have tuned into how I would feel if I was her and imagining the sense of devastation, which would have been very real. I will get to this in WC’s comment. The fact is we are conned. I was conned by someone very like Gillian. These women suck balls and God help the men who become involved with them. They’re not just ‘man eaters’, they’re ‘people eaters’ and some of them have voracious appetite for garnering fuel.

        It’s incredibly unfortunate that you end up having to ‘back off’ from these people and friendships formed around them as they turn pleasant situations nasty and good times bad. In fact, they can turn your whole life upside down. Your friend had to leave her job to get respite. I would say that’s not uncommon as a means to cut ties with one of these ‘people eaters’. The one I knew was like a virus and could infect almost anyone with her insincere sincerity, so practised was she at cognitive empathy. And that was the thing. She was convincing, and it wasn’t until and unless you were painted black that you knew she really was a snake in the grass.

        I don’t know if there is a poll either, but it’s always interesting when there is one to consider the various options. Thanks for sharing your thoughts again, AspEmp xox

        1. Asp Emp says:

          LET, thank you for your response. It is interesting that we used our own ‘manipulation’ back when it really came to it. I know I ‘threw’ a lot of stuff into his face (via texts) at the end of my ‘ensnarement’ with MRN but I would suggest it was not necessarily ‘narc tools’ on my part, quite possibly more of the dark tetrad. I wanted to hurt him. I wanted him to experience the ‘hurt’. I needed to do it. 6 years of his BS, his work bosses BS. A life-time of abuse. I just erupted with it all. I gave him lots of compassion, support, TLC, time, he had more from anyone else I had ‘given’ to, so to speak. My ‘hurt’ was substantial. So my ‘anger’ back was also substantial. But the aftermath lasted months – the slow ‘decline’ into my own ‘abyss’ and for some time I could not find my way out. Even now, when I look back, I am ok ET wise as I type this, but I think ‘fk, I survived that’. I am just glad to have worked ‘through’ all that here.

          I had put it down to ‘meltdowns’, ‘burnouts’ and ‘shutdowns’ but considering the amount I felt at that time and the length it went on for, hmmm. It was the depth of the emotion (anger) and the amount.

          Yes, it was during my time here that gave me more insight into the friends I had in my life. She knew she was manipulated by them, at the same time, she talked to them about me – without realising she was ‘informing’ them. It has been about a year since she and I really talked and since she left to start her new job. Covid restrictions also impacted but should no longer be an issue. We did get on but that “work place” was damaging relations (because of the ET / LT impacts on her and me). She and I are the type that can start from where we left off. Yet I am so much more aware, so I won’t be in the position of getting hurt again. Apply my logic and not tell her anything of irrelevance. Now that I have ‘dispensed’ of the poor ‘quality’ ET / LT where that work place is concerned, I will be more ‘tuned’ into my instincts.

          I had a card from my London friend recently and I plan to see her this year.

          Thank you for listening, LET. It is good to talk 🙂 xx

          1. lickemtomorrow says:

            AspEmp, I appreciate you sharing more of your story and the road out of ensnarement can be long and hard. I think it’s only human to want to throw back in their faces all the hurt and harm that has been caused to us and you obviously reacted in a major way to how you had been treated. Totally understandable on the basis you really put yourself out there for him. It’s what they seem able to suck out of us without us even being aware sometimes. We give and we give and we give, much like they want and they want and they want. It’s endless and draining and completely self-sacrificing, though we don’t know that at the time. We’re conned into giving every ounce as a means of pleasing them and thinking somehow we benefit from that bargain.

            You did survive it, AspEmp, and much more than that, I think. Look at you now <3

            It sounds like you might have a chance to reconnect with this old work colleague, and as we know the narcissist sets out to damage relationships. It's doubtful she realized at the time she was being used or manipulated by a narcissist/s and could well have fallen into the trap I mentioned. She could be licking her own wounds and having a real life friend where the two of you could commiserate might work very well. She may not know about narcissism and she may not know she has been ensnared. She does know the fallout from that though. You've both been through something similar so maybe it's worth reconnecting.

            Excited you are going to see your London friend 🙂 Perhaps you will see the Queen?

            I appreciate your input, AspEmp <3 No need to thank me xox

          2. Asp Emp says:

            LET, thank you for your response. You obviously understand very well what it was like for me, you have the knack from seeing it from my view. RE: old colleague, yes I agree. Thank you for understanding that from where I stood. The problem I have is her boyfriend who I suggested to her is one (which she did not deny), yet she can ‘handle’ him. She’s strong. She has told him to go away when it is ‘our’ time (she / me). He gives me the heebies-jeebies but I can ‘deal’ with that (LOL). I’ve seen the Queen once, Silver Jubilee. I also met Princess Anne in person at some horse-riding event – I still have the badge she issued me.

            Thank you, your words of encouragement are good to read 🙂 xx

          3. lickemtomorrow says:

            AspEmp, I didn’t realize her boyfriend was a narc. Was he also tangled up in the goings on at your workplace or is that a completely separate issue? As strong as she is, ‘narcville’ is not a place where you would want to spend any time, so I hope she eventually comes to her senses. The she/me time suggests she’s able to stand her ground in some respects, which is good to know if it means you don’t have to come into contact with him. At the same time you’re in a position now to be much better able to deal with that 🙂 Only you know what is best for you and the level of information you feel comfortable sharing with her. My guess is it will be a ‘testing the waters’ scenario as you seek to rekindle your friendship. I wish you all the best if you decide to go ahead xox

            So you have been to London to visit the Queen? 🙂 And you met Princess Anne in person? So exciting she gave you a badge! You’ve been up close and personal with Royalty x I saw Charles and Diana when they were together and was delighted I was able to see her in person <3 She was definitely a Magnet cadre of empath.

            My pleasure in offering support and encouragement, AspEmp. You've done the same many times for me xox

          4. Asp Emp says:

            LET, I ‘sensed’ like a repulsion when I first met him. My ‘alarm system’ flicked on. Over time, I could ‘see’ his behaviours. Looking back, all the signs are there. He was not ‘involved’ in the work place. There are other indicators that I observed while he was around, his son too. I suspect, another pair of ACONs (adult and son). Even though I have not seen them since Covid started. Too many indicators. Father blamed mother of child (so did my friend – they had not met at the time of ‘discussing’ with my friend though…..hmmm).

            You are right “testing the waters”. I may pop round to see her instead of using technology. I still have not “sorted” my phone out 😉

            No, the Queen was on her travels around the UK. Up around near The Cotwolds area. Yes, certainly did meet Princess Anne in person 🙂 Yonks and yonks ago. My claim to fame LOL. Up close but not personal 😉 LOL. I’d agree RE: Diana as Magnet, Saviour, Super – probably (in private, the fku’s? – the “depression” at her interview).

            Likewise, LET. Thank you. Such a pleasure to chat 🙂 x

          5. lickemtomorrow says:

            AspEmp, that’s a huge indicator to have an immediate sense of revulsion. Good to know your alarm system was in full working order and it’s surprising how it can be triggered even when there may as yet be no obvious signs. You’ve got the benefit of your learning here plus hindsight to add to that alarm trigger now. If you have a father/son combo and the lockdowns of Covid to boot I’m not sure how you’re friend will have managed in the meantime, so popping round to see her might be beneficial in the circumstances, maybe touch base to get her when she is on her own. If he’s a narc he’ll want to be in on the conversation, too. Or he’ll attempt to listen in.

            What is going on with your phone?! I feel like it’s been months now …

            We all should have a claim to fame, AspEmp 😉 OMG, I saw that the new film “Spencer” is available on one of the streaming channels and I plan to watch it to see either how awful it is or how revealing, or both. I’m not sure I can stomach an actress playing the part of Diana as there is no chance of capturing her real life persona. The best RF movie I’ve seen so far is The Queen with Helen Mirren. She did a superb job and the whole film was captivating in term of capturing the tensions and possible conversations around the death of Diana.

            Definitely a pleasure to chat <3 xox

          6. Asp Emp says:

            LET, yes, it was an immense sensation that I felt with her fella. Yes, he ‘lurks’ a lot, listening in etc. Also wanting to hug / touch her and she brushes him off when I am there (LOL). In between lockdown ‘liftings’, I did not spend much time with her because the son goes between her house, his mother’s house and his father’s house (and school when it was open) = too many ‘contact’ points. I have seen his ‘ignited’ fury, both the hot and cold types. He ‘withdrew’ one time (after having an aggressive ‘go’ at both of us), she and I were taken aback and she’d threatened his control by being honest (blunt), avoided eye contact with him (he was next to me on the settee – she has her own chair), maintained eye contact with me. It was something she would not necessarily have said if I was not present. He displays quite a bit of the Lesser characteristics. Bleurgh. She’d told me of a couple of ‘incidences’, hmmm. Not physically violent with people but ‘barks’ quite a bit. LOL.

            My phone is an old handset (Android 4.4 operating system) and the service provider changed network suppliers and caused so much fk up for customers. The information on the website was poor quality. I stated that to them. It got to the point where I thought, I cannot be arsed. Solution? A new (second hand) handset and a different provider = new number (and not transferring the contacts over). Avoiding contracts if possible (for the handset).

            Hence, my visiting her in person. Determine either way.

            Helen Mirren was great as the Queen. I am still not a RF fan, I only read HG’s videos on them, or a one-off documentary on tv 🙂 I agree, no-one can replicate Diana on-screen, or off it, for that matter. She is irreplaceable.

            Yes, lovely to chat 🙂 xx

          7. lickemtomorrow says:

            AspEmp, narcs are ‘lurkers’, good term to use. The last narc was a lurker, online and off. It’s another red flag to be aware of and goes to the narcissist’s need for control. Creepy!

            I understand the inability to visit during Covid and hopefully a visit in person will do you both good 🙂 The father and son sound like a nightmare combination.

            I’ve gone on and off the RF over the years. Some periods have been ones of heightened interest and Harry’s wife has certainly created a stir. Diana’s time as a Royal Princess was another time of great controversy. I watched “Spencer”. What was interesting about that was it had a focus on Anne Boleyn. No doubt a comparison being made in terms of what happened to Diana later. It was definitely a negative commentary on the monarchy and at the same time showed Diana as an unstable woman who seemingly had a death wish. At least that was my impression. She was, of course, a prisoner in the context of the palace and the film, all centred around a Christmas spent with the RF. It could be highlighting some aspects of royal life, including the kitchens which was probably the part I enjoyed the most! It’s fascinating to see how the Royal household is run, and with military precision no less. The film is a very one sided look at Diana’s experience interpreted through a anti-Royalist lens, I think.

            Always good to chat, AspEmp xox

          8. Asp Emp says:

            LET, “creepy” is the correct analogy of the father (and the son TBH). From what I have learned on KTN, I’d be inclined to suggest maybe the mother is the victim, I don’t know enough to determine either way really. The son is quiet but there is a ‘presence’ (I cannot really put my finger on it but I have an idea). He does not seem to like others being around, not out of fear, more like an f.o ‘vibe’. No boundary recognised when in someone else’s house. Always on his phone, on his own.

            Diana was 7 when her parents divorced, definitely in a LOCE, including when her mother left aged 5 (fk, being told by mother “I will come back” and she didn’t). Reading up about her mother reminded me of Matrinarc for some reason (she’d met Peter a year before leaving Diana’s father, hmmm). No wonder Diana became even more ‘disturbed’ and stopped speaking to her mother and the loss of her father would have been traumatic. I would not be surprised if she was a Co-D and partly where Harry gets it from. It seems that Diana never had ‘stability’ in her life yet really cared for her brother. In my view, she tops the list of famous empaths.

            Apparently, Henry VIII had a “regret” about having Anne beheaded.

            The Royal kitchens were always a ‘military’ “operation” – probably even more so during Henry VIII’s time (and since) 😉

            Interesting to consider that with history as it is written now and HG’s Legacy, I envisage that the future of “history” will have two ‘parallels’ – the older version (‘distorted’ mirror image) of ‘history’ and the ‘revised’ version (the new ‘reality’) written by future historians.

            Thank you for your views, LET, it prompted me for some reading 🙂 x

          9. lickemtomorrow says:

            AspEmp, once again that father and son combo sound like a concern. Teenagers can be petulant, and I don’t know how old he is so not sure if that is the case (I get confused because younger and younger children have phones now, too) but if he is moving between homes with a difficult relationship ongoing with the parent’s it’s possible he’s reacting to that as well. It’s no wonder it can be hard to determine with children, especially at that age. There are so many changes going on for them. Having awareness and being watchful are probably the only ways to have some idea.

            Diana did have a LOCE and thank you for providing the details. I don’t know how instability in childhood would ever add up to stability in adulthood, but depending on the circumstances and the individual it’s possible. In Diana’s case I think the stability she may have been looking for was denied her. That’s probably because she did have an element of CoD, I agree with you there, and her relationship with Charles couldn’t have been more unstable. Certainly in the sense he was carrying on an affair with Camilla in the midst of it. The film, “Spencer”, has a partial focus on a pearl necklace given to Diana by Charles. Apparently he gave the exact same necklace to Camilla! The Lady-in-Waiting says to Diana he forgot he had given it to her as well – aka the comparmentalization of the narcissist. It was so interesting to note this fact from the film. As an empath we can only imagine how she experienced the devaluation as part of their relationship.

            LOL to Henry VIII having any ‘regrets’ (apart from the fact we know narcs don’t do regret!). He may have been regretting the fact he couldn’t hoover the former IPPS after having her beheaded. She elicits little sympathy from me in terms of her scheming in the circumstances. Was Anne Boleyn a narcissist? Another one to put on the list 😉

            The kitchens had me thinking about concerns around poisoning, too. Does the Queen have a taster of her food? That was a thing in the past where food had to be tasted by another first so if it was poisoned the poor old taster would die as opposed to the monarch. I doubt that was highly sought after job in the Royal household! People really were disposable back in the day in that sense.

            I’m always a little concerned when I see the words “revision” and “history” together. I think what HG gives is an insight, and for those who have it there will be a parallel or new understanding added. Apart from that, the facts are the facts from my perspective. Such as Henry VIII had Anne Boleyn beheaded. He did it for convenience – so he could marry again – and his narcissism contributed to his actions in doing that – Anne Boleyn was painted black. Henry had found his new IPPS and she could not be embedded until he took off Anne Boleyn’s head. Times have changed, thank God. Although, he had decreed via his break from the Catholic Church that he could divorce her, so he could have just done that, put her in the tower, forgotten about her until he felt the need to hoover his former IPPS. It must have been malice.

            You’ve prompted many a thought in me, AspEmp, but this historical trajectory is turning out to be fascinating to consider and a little entertaining 🙂

          10. Asp Emp says:

            LET, thank you for your response. I agree, it is a ‘concern’. Well, the kid (11) did / said something to my friend’s kid (F – 10) which caused them not to spend time together. That is all I can say really. Let’s put it this way, I would have ended my relationship with the father – then again, I would not have even gone out with this guy! They met online. It highlights the more of the importance and validity of HG’s work and why he is doing it. I understand your point RE: moving around between parents, being an only child and a ‘from-time-to-time’ ‘second’ family. Sigh, there is a difference in reading stuff like this and seeing it in front of you. I don’t think I can get her to ‘see’. But there is someone else who knows both of us quite well and he is the best person to talk it through with.

            Wow. “I don’t know how instability in childhood would ever add up to stability in adulthood”. That is quite profoundly put. Well, I am now ‘wearing’ the t-shirt so to speak. It can be done but it was not easy – it is about having faith and the strength in yourself really. And being able to tell your story (here). More importantly, to have the ‘guidance’, time to process through it, understand it. Saying these words today mean so much.

            Yes, the Diana / Charles / Camilla ‘triangle’ affected her a great deal – she was devalued from the moment they met, in my opinion. He needed an heir, or two. She was the “supplier” and she produced good ‘products’ (sounds terrible, god I’m speaking like a narcissist now LOL – I am “translating” it). Maybe Diana knew that too RE: being used as a ‘carrier’ if you can understand, that would have ‘added’ to her overall well-being? Diana always felt ‘second best’ throughout her life and that can have a major impact on someone’s life. RE: the pearl necklace, wow. I’m not surprised.

            Apparently, Anne Boleyn was a ‘favourite’ of all his wives (hence the “regret”) because Anne was ‘feisty’. Henry being a narcissist had to do what he ordered to have done, simply because if he let her live, he’d being ‘transferring’ power to her?

            RE: the RF kitchen ‘taster’? Maybe a long time ago, I would agree. These days, I would suggest not. Security checks. Better management. Systems. Environmental Health ‘checks’, maybe they visit (laughing here). Recalling programmes as such, and a certain well-known chef and his programmes too 🙂

            Henry needed a son. Katherine Parr ‘delivered’ on that, placing her the highest ‘valued’ wife. Yet, his eldest daughter eventually became Queen and reigned long.

            RE: revision of history. It has happened, in some way, the riots and the statues. Not in the same ‘perspective’, I know. I would like to suggest a consideration – Mary Seacole / Florence Nightingale, TBH I was delighted for Mary. What I am suggesting is, that history can be ‘re-written’. I envisage that it will eventually happen with regard to HG and his work that will contribute to the ‘downfall’ of not so-nice-people-after-all. We hear of people having the ‘titles’ stripped from them. Other not-so-nice-people do it themselves. Sometimes, history can be ‘obliterated’ (removed from records).

            I would suggest that HG is prophetic, not a crystal-ball reader but knows ahead what will happen ie MM and why he selected her. I think it is a ‘sense’ that HG has which is not necessarily related to his intelligence. It is not far-fetched of me to suggest, because my father ‘prophetised’ about digital household goods.

            Thank you for your interest and I am delighted to read ‘entertaining’, I am enjoying these too 🙂 . I am obliged, LET 🙂 xx

          11. lickemtomorrow says:

            AspEmp, thanks for sharing more info around your friend’s situation, and there’s obviously a lot more detail to the story which can’t be shared here. There’s no question, going by what you’ve said already, it’s a situation to watch – as in hopefully her awareness will be raised and red flags will be noted (if they haven’t been already). She seems to have been taken in by this guy, and I’ll always regard online meetings as suspicious from now on. There is a great deal of validity and importance to HG’s work in that sense. I hope your mutual friend is able to help.

            Good to hear your wearing the T-shirt, AspEmp <3 You go girl! I love that you have grown so much in your time here and that makes you an inspiration xox I'm so glad you were able to put into words what means so much to you right now.

            That very uncomfortable moment in the Charles & Di engagement video where Charles is asked about being in love and he answers "whatever in love means" … God help her. How devastating. She was already in devaluation, he wasn't crowing over her and their relationship, and maybe Diana got a Bronze period and not a Golden Period at all. I didn't know about the pearl necklace either, but had heard about the cufflinks Diana noticed Charles wearing on their honeymoon.

            In Royal biography "Battle of Brothers", Robert Lacy notes how any optimism Diana had about her marriage was quickly quashed on her honeymoon:

            "“A few days into their honeymoon on the Royal Yacht Britannia, they opened their diaries to discuss their next engagements, when out of Charles’s dropped not one, but two photos of Camilla,” Lacey recounts. “Diana chose not to spoil the moment. She had already worked out the truth about Mrs. Parker Bowles.”

            There's more:

            “Getting ready while on honeymoon in Egypt for a white-tie dinner with President Anwar Sadat, Diana noticed that her husband’s cufflinks were engraved with two intertwined letter Cs,” writes Lacey, per Diana’s own account of the exchange to author Andrew Morton.

            “‘Camilla gave you those, didn’t she?'” the princess asked.

            “‘Yes,’ replied Charles defensively. ‘So what’s wrong? They’re a present from a friend.’”

            She was being triangulated from the get go and felt every inch the scorned women almost from the outset. "Hell has no fury like a woman scorned" … Diana took it back to herself initially with her eating disorder amongst other things. It's a way of gaining control. She eventually decided to expose him and the rest of world was then able to scorn him and Camilla as well. Poor Diana was really in an untenable position and his narcissism was always going to lead to that place. No wonder she appeared 'unhinged' at times. We can all become a little unhinged with the narcissist and sadly that gives them greater capacity to smear us. No win situation. Only the people saw and loved Diana for who she was to them, as could be seen from the outpouring of grief at her death, and she far exceeded Charles' ability to win the affection of the people. She was a true Queen of Hearts, as they say, and in many people eyes that was far more important. The fact she died in her youthful beauty means she will always remain an icon. Camilla not so much.

            Good points about Anne Boleyn. She likely was a match for Henry VIII and in that sense their sparring could have been quite stimulating to him. Unfortunately her inability to produce a male heir led to her comeuppance in the end and straight to the chopping block. I guess 'feisty' doesn't always save the day when the narcissist's needs are not being met. Henry needed a legacy. Anne Boleyn did not deliver.

            This is HG's baby 😉

            I think I would define the 're-writing of history' from a slightly different perspective and that is a politically motivated one based on a current narrative. I prefer 'consolidation' of history, which to my mind is more about gathering the facts and adding them to make a more harmonious whole. In the case of Mary Seacole the facts could be consolidated into the history of the era without the added political narrative. Nobody was holding Florence Nightingale up as a 'white woman saviour', but that is now what we are led to believe. She was being held up for her committment to her task and the difference it made to the profession. We need to clearly understand what is happening when we read stories like these and how they impact people. There is no reason to not admire both women at the end of the day. I'm sure no soldier gave a toss about their colour.

            Now, I'm not sure what HG sees in his crystal ball in relation to MM, but I'm hoping it's her demise! I understand prophesy and how our understanding at times can be prophetic. Your father was ahead of his time 🙂 xox

          12. Asp Emp says:

            Hello LET 🙂 I popped round to see her, for a few minutes but gathered that “them” at work we both knew are all ‘no contact’, which is a great positive. We’ll be talking again at some point but I am not doing it with that guy there, there was no mention of him (and I didn’t ask either – LOL). She knows what I think of him.

            The words “a friend”, yes, believe me, I’ve heard that myself. My instincts told me that the MRN was lying. When one has been cheated on a number of times in the past, one gets to know the “pattern”. The behaviours of the cheater (LOL).

            Laughing…..”Camilla not so much”. Who is she anyway? 😉

            Funnily enough, the film ‘Anne of the 1000 Days’ (1969) was on earlier and I watched it. Richard Burton and Genevieve Bujold were good in the roles. Anne Boleyn was defiant to the end, maybe she stayed ‘true’ to herself, despite what she went through.

            Very well worded, your paragraph RE: re-writing of history. I agree with you RE: “without the political narrative”. When I was researching into International Women’s Day for a small presentation with photos for a group of people with learning disabilities, I came across the information about Mary and I included that.

            Indirectly, HG’s work reminds me of ‘The Celestine Prophecy’ (series of books) that I read when I was younger. My sister never returned those books! I would suggest that is one reason why I liked HG’s approach and the way he has ‘designed’ his story to be told.

            I like a mystery 🙂 Good to read your views, thank you LET 🙂

          13. lickemtomorrow says:

            AspEmp )

            Good to ‘see’ you.

            And good to hear you had a chance to pop round and visit your friend. Even better she has gone no contact with the people at your last job. That is a real positive. I hope you have a chance to touch base again soon and maybe share some more thoughts around your experiences.

            LOL to ‘a friend’ 😛 I remember one of HG’s article particularly tickled me where he mentioned ‘a friend’ and ‘a friend again’ … as in excuses the narcissist is making. I can laugh now because I’m no longer impacted by that nonsense, but in the thick of it it’s the most painful thing to be left wondering “is she JUST a friend?” The narcissist loves to keep you hanging on the end of that hook and watch you wiggle and squirm.

            Haha to “who is she anyway?” Not someone I have much interest in overall. I was hurt for Diana when I realized what had been going on in the background and her “There were three of us in this marriage” explains the issue of triangulation perfectly. There is so much to that unfortunate marriage related to narcissism I can see so clearly now. What baffles me is his long term relationship with Camilla, and I could say the same about the Queen’s marriage to Prince Philip. The only thing I can imagine with the Queen is that her husband, being a narcissist, was the only one who could counter the effect of bearing such enormous responsibility on her shoulders, if that makes sense. The narcissist can be a rock in many ways, due to their black and white nature, and maybe he was hers. Something else I’d love HG to define at some stage.

            I think I have seen “Anne of 100 Days”, but remember little about it. I do know I felt the whole saga of Henry and his wives was traumatic from beginning to end and each of those women suffered greatly in their love for him. That they should lose their heads as a consequence of loving him seems especially cruel. I think Anne held her own until the end, that feisty nature of hers not letting her down, but it didn’t prevent the inevitable from happening. Perhaps staying true to herself was the only way to retain any semblance of dignity when confronted with such an undignified end.

            It’s lovely that you included that information about Mary when you gave your talk on IWD. She deserves to be recognized, and so many people who do are never given that opportunity. The beauty of it is they often do what they do without any desire to be recognized. It is for the great love they hold for others and their inbuilt sense of integrity. I’ve been amused to read of the backlash from the ‘sugars’ around Harry and his wife not receiving recognition from Zelensky after offering up their thoughts on Ukraine, while William and Catherine were acknowledged for their more belated thoughts on the situation. The Royal Family is meant to remain apolitical, but leaving that aside it was suggested ‘Russian bots’ were behind the backlash purportedly coming from Harry and his wife’s fans 😛 I wouldn’t put anything past the sugars and their manic desire to see Harry and his wife top of the heap! How dare Zelensky not acknowledge them?! Bitch slap to the Harkle’s … as if this man hasn’t got better things to do with his time.

            I haven’t read the Celestine Prophecy, though I have heard of it. It sounds intriguing, especially as you feel you can relate it to HG’s work. I’m going to read up on it 🙂

            Thanks for your thoughts again, AspEmp. Always enjoy reading them xox

          14. Asp Emp says:

            LET :-). RE: friend, yes, she’s busy but is happier where she is working now.

            Laughing, RE: “a friend / a friend again”. It is good to read that you can now find the ‘humour’ in it. Me too ;-).

            Considering that narcissists do not ‘let go’ of (in their perception) of their “appliances”, regardless of whether it is empath, or narcissist (LOL). That is what I find ‘delightful’ about knowing what they (narcissists) are but they don’t know :-). Maybe Charles had been “shopping” around and didn’t find Camilla “suitable” (laughing) at the time but now he does only because he lost his main ‘source’.

            The Queen is a really strong woman and yes, I’d agree that Philip was her ‘rock’. He did do a lot of ‘good’, even if it was for his ‘benefit’, ie the creation of the Duke of Edinburgh Award, it is still a legacy he has left and one that will not dissipate in the future. The dynamics of this marriage worked because of who they are / were and they both greatly benefited from it. It was interesting to watch the programme on the early years of their relationship and how he was trying to ‘establish’ himself within the Monarchy (ie finding what he wanted to ‘achieve’ for himself that was ‘his’ alone). He did achieve a lot of ‘changes’ in the early years and built-up on that.

            Anne really challenged Henry, he liked that about her. Even though his main aim was to achieve a male heir, each of his wives ‘offered’ different “contributions” to his life, if you can understand what I mean. That is what is interesting about Henry and his ‘selections’, as they were quite variable, not necessarily similar ie in looks etc. In some respect, Henry effected some good ‘changes’ in England and it’s role within the Empire.

            Yes, the group were fascinated, like ‘wow’ RE: Mary. Some people do things ‘quietly’ and yet can have a huge positive impact on others.

            You mentioning Zelensky, I watched the first 3 episodes of his television series. I was muchly amused at the number of ‘bleeps’ during the scene when he’s ranting.

            I think people are taken aback as to what is going on at present yet not surprised. I’m very sad about it because I’d been thinking about what is currently going on in Europe too. I considered the fact that many people will be traumatised as a result. How many of those children will be affected, how many will be ‘formed’ into narcissists / empaths (and / or any other neurodiversities / emotional affects) due to the total upheaval and disruption to their lives? Such trauma and damage, for what I personally view as such an illogical and senseless ‘war’ on innocent people, which in turn, has massively impacted worldwide.

            Having said that, we can ‘see’ further than most people can RE: Harry’s wife’s ‘reaction’ and the current situation in Europe because of HG’s work (blog, YT etc).

            Yes, the books on the Celestine Prophecy, I could not put them down 🙂

            Thank you for your thoughts too, LET. Good to read 🙂 xx

          15. lickemtomorrow says:

            AspEmp … missed the ‘colon’ on this in my original greeting 🙂

            Good to hear your thoughts again.

            Why was Charles infatuated with Camilla? Has that infatuation lasted? According to HG, such is not possible, so perhaps Camilla is now a Stepford wife in her role as Duchess of Cornwall and future Queen. I struggle to understand the dynamic in some of these long term high profile situations where marriages seem to last and question how much of it is putting on a brave face like we all did at some stage. What is really going on behind closed doors? It’s not something I like to imagine, knowing it first hand. Does Camilla now experience the same kind of trauma as Diana? Perhaps she is a normal or narcissist herself? That would surely leave her less affected in some ways at the end of the day (lesser degree of emotional thinking) and perhaps more adept at carrying on the role of a Stepford wife. Perhaps she relishes her role as ‘consort’ and she is getting as much out of it even in the midst of devaluation. There has to be devaluation. No golden period lasts forever, and this has been a very long term relationship, even in the context of an ongoing affair in the early days. Once the narcissist ‘has you’ he usually doesn’t want you anymore, as in he has secured his prey and now it’s time to move on to the next, more juicy appliance … something “shiny and new” as HG puts it. Maybe it’s the aging narcissist and his need for a secure fuel source as he ages being unable to ‘hunt’ as he once used to do. It’s all so fascinating to contemplate.

            The other, of course, is the Queen and imagining what it would be for the narcissist to have to play ‘second fiddle’ as Philip had to do, which would have been completely against his nature, or rather the nature of his narcissism. That could be the reason for wanting to create his own ‘space’ within the monarchy and a legacy that was his alone. How does a narcissist play second fiddle to someone with more authority and who is more famous than themselves? Once again, the fascination never ends.

            Interesting to contemplate Henry’s choices and the differences between them as well. In that sense it appears true to HG’s teaching in terms of his article about why the narcissist sometimes ‘downgrades’. It’s all about the fuel and his needs at the time, nothing at all to do with the other. Somehow each wife fit Henry’s needs at the time, so it would be a fascinating exercise to contemplate the situation from that perspective – the narcissistic one. What made Henry, as a narcissist, choose each of these wives at the time he did? There’s likely more to it than most people think.

            I appreciate your views on Ukraine, especially around the impact on the children, and there is always something seemingly senseless about war. Someone is trying to hold onto power, someone is trying to gain power, someone is trying to remove power … how much of the narcissistic dynamic can be seen in all this? It is the cause of a great deal of upheaval and as always it’s the innocents who suffer the most. For those in power, it is a game of chess and a number of sides will be playing to win. My heart goes out to the people of the Ukraine caught up in the midst of this 🙁

            Sad note to end on, I’m afraid, but Europe has overcome so much trauma in its past let’s hope a lesson is taken from that going forward.

          16. Asp Emp says:

            LET, no worries 😉 🙂

            RE: the “attraction” between Charles and Camilla, I’ll never understand it either (LOL) 😉 Considering that there was a ‘break’ in their “connection”, close then not close, then close again. The ‘push / pull’ effect? I would suggest that more often than not, narcissists not knowing what they are, never “let go” (Philip would have had an awareness of what he was), Charles? Probably not. You know what it is like when arguing with a narcissist (fuel extraction and asserting control), using status as part of that ‘dynamic’ ‘adds’ to the “power” of the narcissist. I think Camilla has a different type of ‘inner’ strength than Diana did, ie completely different – Diana had that ‘light’ inside her, maybe Camilla does not have one as strong as Diana’s (it is not apparent when looking at interaction with the public). I do not believe Camilla is a normal either. Camilla does not come across as someone who is ‘troubled’. Where you talk about the ageing narcissist, maybe that is one of the reasons why Charles married Camilla – because he ‘knew’ (sensed) she was ‘right’ for his ageing narcissist ‘period’. He will not look to replace her. He gets fuel from her and his large fuel matrix. Opportunities for new fuel sources will ‘happen’ when their roles in the Monarchy change in the future. In my view, Charles and Camilla are “content” with each other. In this respect, I would suggest that HG’s ‘The Fading Star’ article may be what Charles can ‘sense’ and so by ‘securing’ Camilla, he has “prevented” as such a ‘demise’. (I am just thinking out loud :-)).

            In my view, Philip may have initially ‘felt’ like a second-fiddle, but ‘established’ himself pretty quickly by asserting his control in places where it did not have an ‘impact’ on the Queen’s role (as a mother, or on England, for that matter). With him being aware of what he was, he’d been smart enough to look and consider where he would have control and without ‘interference’ from the Queen – hence (in my view) why their ‘dynamics’ worked – like a mutual ‘arrangement’ if you like. The “trust” between them may have been ‘built’ on good communications between them, yes, they would have argued but worked it out (depending on the ‘importance’ of the topic). Even in public, they appeared to have a strong / good ‘connection’. Either way, they both ‘chose’ wisely. He would have viewed the Queen as ‘his’ in any case. Being married to the Queen of England is a massive, massive source of fuel (the knowledge of that fact in itself) and also a huge source of control through ‘association’. He had no need to brag, he did it though his work (Royal and other duties).

            I agree, that Henry VIII’s ‘choices’ of wives being variable and interesting to consider. Firstly, the most important, was a male heir (which was the overall and over-riding ‘factor’). The youngish age would have been an indication to the assumed health and virality of the women he chose. Anne of Cleves (and Katherine of Aragon) was more to do with ‘association’ (ie powers within Europe and thus, having ‘control’) rather than the possibility of a male heir, because he already had Edward but marrying Anne of Cleves was an additional “just in case”. Out of the wives, Katherine of Aragon and Anne of Cleves were ‘arranged’ rather than ‘free’ choice for Henry.

            Having said that, Elizabeth I never married. What she saw / heard in relation to her father’s ‘treatment’ of people would have been a contributing factor and she wanted to remain in ‘control’ and maintain her power. I may be wrong to suggest she was not a narcissist yet highly narcissistic through learning / observing her father.

            Interesting when the word “downgrades” is applied. When in fact, it is actually an ‘upgrade’ in the quality of the fuel and the quantity of it (however they ‘secure’ it via marriage if needed to ‘ensure’ control if it is not easily as “controlled” compared to other people). Yet, at the same time, when people use the word “downgrade”, that, in one way, is showing that there is a “mindset” of ‘judging’ people by their looks, their status, their personality etc. I’m reminded of the saying “do not judge people by it’s cover” (ie on the outside, when the inside is so beautiful). It depends on the perception of who is the ‘downgrade’ and who is the ‘upgrade’ and from whose ‘perception’ of the person doing the upgrade / downgrade :-).

            To be fair, empaths also do the ‘upgrading’ and ‘downgrading’ themselves? Based on self-worth, esteem etc? My friend chose a guy based on “who else would want me” sort of perception and I had stated that they can do better than what they chose (even now, I cannot “see” the qualities he has) – further meet-ups may be an opportunity to gain further info (ie an update).

            Thank you for your considerations RE: Ukraine. We already know the impacts of a narcissist’s ‘power’ and we are seeing it in total and utter ‘reality’ in this case. Here is hoping it is over sooner than later. Yet the impacts will be longer lasting. A true saddening state of affairs.

            Thank you for your thoughts, good to confer with you, LET 🙂

            Apologies, HG, for the length of my comment. I appreciate your time in moderating. Much thanks in advance, HG 🙂

          17. lickemtomorrow says:

            AspEmp, really enjoyed reading your thoughts here again 🙂 There is much to take out of them and nothing with which I disagree.

            Yes, the “Fading Star” might suit Charles perfectly at this age and stage in his life when it comes to an understanding of his narcissism. Camilla was ‘shelved’, at least in part, during the period of his marriage to Diana. Or was she? She was his DLS in reality at that stage, so an ongoing fuel source who accepted her place in the fuel matrix. I can’t remember if DLS’s are also shelved or if it’s just secondary and tertiary sources. Do you think she is an empath? Definitely doesn’t have the Magnet aspect of Diana.

            Thoughts on Prince Philip and the fuel source provided by extension via the Queen. I hadn’t considered that, but you are right. That would have provided him with a great deal of what he needed as a narcissist. I do think he would have been ‘in charge’ in some respects and this would have counteracted the need I feel the Queen would have had in terms of her own authority. It’s a balancing where her authority was balanced out to some extent via his narcissism due to the fact she is not a narcissist and therefore requires a level of balancing in such a position of power. I don’t know if that makes sense, but having ultimate power as a normal or an empath would require some element of balancing from my perspective.

            Interesting thoughts on upgrades and downgrades as well. I was basing my comment on HG’s article and how we can be astounded at times at the choices the narcissist makes, but that of course is based on the narcissist’s needs and not on any qualifiers we would normally use. It makes so much sense when HG explains that what doesn’t make sense to us makes perfect sense to the narcissist. For him or her it’s definitely an upgrade in terms of fuel. We don’t see it that way because we have different criteria, and yes that would be a judgement on our part, too. That’s also the case when we downgrade ourselves. Empaths are great at judging themselves as well. Those of us who were diminished by the narcissist as children will continue to diminish ourselves in many respects as adults, which is how the next narcissist captures us. We can be easy prey that way.

            Thanks for sharing your thoughts again, AspEmp. I enjoy our conversations xox

          18. Asp Emp says:

            LET, hello 🙂

            Maybe a ‘DLS’ is a DLS, regardless of the fuel matrix? Whether it is an IPSS, NISS, NITS, on the shelf, off the shelf? Laughing….” Definitely doesn’t have the Magnet aspect of Diana”. No disagreement from me here 😉

            Thank you for your considerations RE: my thoughts on Philip & the Queen’s relationship. I would be inclined to agree RE: ultimate power and ‘balancing’.

            I’d agree that “empaths are great at judging themselves as well” – they can, whether that is ‘incorrectly’ or ‘correctly’ – depending on where their ET / LT is within themselves, of themselves, and other people and whether they are under the ‘influence’ of a narcissist, or ‘escaped’, weaponising themselves. In saying that, this is another ‘example’ in relation to upgrade / downgrade (in regard to a ‘measurement’ of our ET / LT, which can adversely or positively ‘affect’ our physical health to a degree).

            Easy prey? Ah, not any more 😉

            Thank you, LET, I also enjoy our conversations and exchanging our thoughts 🙂

          19. lickemtomorrow says:

            “Easy prey? Ah, not any more 😉”

            Amen x

          20. Violetta says:

            Jane Seymour was the one who had a son who survived infancy. She died, apparently of puerperal fever, but Henry probably would have got bored with her if she hadn’t. He’d have cheated on her, but in all likelihood not tried to oust her, since he wouldn’t have had the incentive of wanted a legitimate male heir.

            Catherine of Aragon seems to have loved him pretty genuinely, considering it was an arranged marriage, but the others were mostly pushed into it by family pressure/his authority. Katherine Parr even tried, unsuccessfully, to get him to settle for having an affair rather than marrying her.

          21. Asp Emp says:

            Jane’s son was not a healthy child. Elizabeth was. Despite Henry divorcing Catherine of Aragon, maybe she was treated ‘better’ than the others. Katherine Parr was in love with Thomas Seymour. Henry was in ill-health when he married Katherine Parr.

          22. lickemtomorrow says:

            AspEmp and Violetta, just had to add this little tidbit I just came across … amazing!

            Here we are talking about all these poor women and VOILA 😉

            https://youtu.be/3PMBzJ8skbo

          23. Asp Emp says:

            LET, it’s very good 🙂 Thank you for sharing it 🙂

          24. lickemtomorrow says:

            Good points, Violetta, and my romantic thinking carried me away earlier on!

            Interestingly, Anne Boleyn appears to have been the opposite to Katherine Parr, refusing Henry’s advances initially on the basis of wanting marriage and not an affair. It’s what led to the fracture with the Catholic Church after Henry was refused an annulment of his marriage to his first wife, Catherine of Aragon, thus leaving him unable to marry again. That seems a little sad since you say his first wife appeared to have loved him genuinely. The problem for the monarchy, even to more recent times, is the fact marriages were ‘arranged’. When it comes to the narcissist that’s neither here nor there as they will never be satisfied either way. The proof is in the fact their ‘unarranged’ marriages don’t seem to work out too well, except in the case of William and Catherine who seem to have finally missed the narcissistic dynamic in making their fortuitous coupling. That augurs well for their children, too. Maybe some good news at last for the monarchy!

          25. Violetta says:

            *wanting

    2. WhoCares says:

      LET,

      Thanks for sharing such a good real life example. I feel for you on the revenge part, although I am not a revengeful person I too derive some satisfaction from watching a good comeuppance.

      “The less info she had, the better. Unfortunately that meant that other who were blind to her nature would innocently pass on or even attempt to gather information on her behalf.”

      This is the bane of many a well-meaning empath.

      1. lickemtomorrow says:

        WC, I like that expression – “The bane of many a well-meaning empath.” It’s true.

        Like with any narcissist, we’re blind until we see and that also means becoming part of the ‘gossip network’ as a way of garnering and giving information. This element was highlighted for me in this instance as I noted her propensity for playing games with other people and their relationships. In that sense, information was gold for her. She would begin to play people off one another with the information she had. There was one girl who was part of the friendship group who was in a relationship with a much older man. I was often curious about how they got together, but never felt the need to ask. The Mid Ranger said to me in a conversation one day “I know how the two of them ended up together, so if you ever want to know just ask.” This was typical bait and I didn’t fall for it. Their business was their business. I didn’t need to know it. But she had found out, was willing to divulge the information, or ‘juicy gossip’, to others and this is one way she wove people into her web. She would also stab people in the back and then be pleasant to their face. Part of me wanted to tell people she was stabbing them in the back, but there was an element of what she was saying that would have been hurtful to them and that’s also where the empath in me kicked in. I might drop hints about keeping distance, but I wasn’t going to fuel the rumours while upsetting another person and give her the satisfaction of creating drama. There is so much to how this situation evolved and its consequences, but those are some of the elements to the story. Her ability to coat her nature in honey to which bees would flock is a fascinating case study in some ways, now that I’m removed from it.

        The bane of the well meaning empath is thinking well of others and allowing that to cloud our vision at times. And we generally don’t go into relationships ‘suspect’ from the beginning, or at least didn’t. Now I have lost so much trust, I know for a fact I’ll never be the same again. To have been hoodwinked by more than one narcissist in this situation in the recent past is enough to make me extremely wary going forward. People in that sense are not always who they seem, at least that is the lesson it has taught me. What I need to add to that is the often very obvious red flags. Because I didn’t know about narcissism, I couldn’t see the red flags which are so typical of them. This was a typical love bombing or seduction scenario in terms of a friendship. I didn’t know about this element of narcissism then. So, while a great deal of the trust is gone, knowing what to look out for now gives me much greater confidence in the future. I just have to come to terms with the loss of innocence.

        1. WhoCares says:

          LET,

          Thank-you for that story – ugh, I had forgotten my past experiences working in mainly female office type environments – exactly where the gossip network flourishes. It is so distasteful and discouraging. But of course, the narcissists being at the center of it all explains everything.
          So glad your education education here makes sense of all that.

          “So, while a great deal of the trust is gone, knowing what to look out for now gives me much greater confidence in the future.”

          I absolutely agree with this outlook.

          As for the loss of innocence, I get that.
          I recently realized, over coffee with a friend, that I think I may even have come to terms with that. I am pretty sure my friend is married to a mid-range cerebral narcissist. She is struggling with her husband, home-schooling her kids and aging parents – one of whom has a terminal diagnosis. And I listened o her concerns about family ties and maintaining family connections for the sake of her children. As I listened to her, I realized that THAT used to be me and my view too – until everything happened in my ensnarement and consequential learning here. It made me hyper aware of just how much my worldview has been turned on its head, but I am not sad about it anymore. (Although I can’t share any of those inner thoughts with this friend as it would be too jarring to her right.)

          It is so reassuring that there are those here who will absolutely grasp this.

          1. lickemtomorrow says:

            WC, thanks for your response 🙂

            The gossip network will flourish wherever there is a female narcissist as will the drama she creates. Look out for a once stable/pleasant work environment turning into a drama filled fuel fest! They can’t help themselves. A little prod here, a poke there, what was that whisper? It’s worse when they coat it in sugar, always only asking/telling because they are ‘concerned’. What a load of bollocks. I’m incredulous how people don’t see through it now, but then I fell for it, too. Not the gossip so much as her show of cognitive empathy towards me. As I got to know her better I began to see the red flags, but sadly no one else did. I just had to let them carry on, and she will continue to play her manipulative games until eventually someone else gets hurt.

            It’s hard when you see someone else going through it like your friend, especially after having put on your narc goggles. I guess if you talk about it in the context of your relationship some thought might be triggered in her, but it sounds like she’s going through a very difficult time and you are being extra sensitive to that. She is lucky to have a friend like you.

            It is also good news that you’ve been able to overcome the sadness at having your eyes opened … I think this might be one of the longest parts of our recovery from the narcissist as we begin to navigate the world again. Having others who get how we feel is a real blessing and has been the best recovery mechanism for me so far <3 Feeling understood, and not just understood but supported, helps ensure the changing of our worldview is less painful than it would be otherwise x

  4. Joa says:

    I feel sorry for Tania, when remorse seizes her. Yes, even if the blow was made towards the “narcissistic enemy.” He will certainly make excuses for himself. Certainly, gifts received by other people, will alleviate the dissonance and dissatisfaction with oneself. Certainly, the appropriate follow-up tactic of HG will make her believe in the “correctness” of these actions.

    ——-

    Empath can endure a lot of villainy, insults, blows, aggression and suffering from others.

    But Empath is the worst at dealing with own mistakes and faults.

    I know it from the autopsy.

    Force Empath (using soft or hard methods) to do something wrong – she will overcome himself…

    …Before she gets up from her knees again.

    ———-

    Thanks for sharing this story HG. Though it’s just a Valentine’s Day story on a microscale. A small, malicious villainy, not causing long-term harm to someone, made me think a lot.

    I am familiar with this process. I am currently in Tania’s position. Only in a much worse, public scope. But I had to do it. I believe, that the long-term consequences will bring good (or maybe I tell myself???). Though I burned myself, for a long time.

    I’ll get up, take it easy. I just have to be myself. Nothing more. Only myself.

  5. Pingback: Valentine Venom : Part 2 - Dark Triad Personality
  6. Sarah says:

    Well done! ❤

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