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47 thoughts on “Livestream : Ultra Saturday”
Dang it, I always miss these! Ah well–just more motivation to fix my sleep schedule and start getting up at a reasonable time of day, really.
YouTube notifications – I have no problems. They come every time and in to time.
I watch later, because it takes a few hours for the translations to appear.
None of the live conversations made me laugh as much as this one, I burst out laughing several times in the silence of the night 😊
When you were talking about war movies for a while, I felt like I was listening to my stepfather’s spatial stories… It was nice to come back to those memories for a few minutes.
Yesterday/today I watched two long films from “live” meetings. In fact, I have no doubts about your profession anymore. I also thought about it before, with parts of HG 1-8.
Unless – you make delusions on purpose, which of course is also possible 😊
Ohhh, and one more thing, it wasn’t champagne. 100% beer 😊
I forgot to write yesterday (I separate the days with sleep, not hours, heh):
It turns out that HG’s age is 50+ (based on the premiere of the movie “Pluto”).
One thing surprised me the most about this conversation. The fact, that HG admits, that as a child he was a Scapegoat (?!). I thought, that despite the abuses, he would say the opposite, that he was a Golden Child. The strong and chosen ones. It “bites” to me a bit.
Is this kind of declaration due to self-awareness? HG?
“My N” would never, ever, even with a knife on his throat, say such words about himself. Although his mother was, and still is, his executioner: no cut of the umbilical cord, appropriation, no boundaries, slandering in front of the world and exalted in one-on-one contacts, evident emotional and possibly physical incest.
It seems as if he knows all this. Sometimes through this artificial cloud of “unprecedented and inaccessible to other people love for mother” bursts through a gloomy and ruthless hatred. But he refuses to admit it, it cannot pass his throat. As if he had given up. He has stopped at the border and does not want to go any further. He want to be stuck in that cloud.
Or maybe it’s just a misty veil for me…
I would have to be closer now to verify this. Back in the day, they both charmed me in their own way, so I didn’t see much.
His mother was the first person to lie to me that she was dying (an argument used very often against me!!!). For cancer. She told me this a secret (which I was supposed to keep from her three children, so as not to worry them) as soon as she found out, that I was pregnant (only in the 6th month (I was thin and had no belly for a long time), because he also asked me to keeping a secret, ha ha ha!). Despite my own, very uninteresting situation, I cried for her and for the fact that her grandson/granddaughter would not recognize her. I was worried about her and cared for her every day.
I supplied her with fuel and information every day…
She knew, that I would finally tell him (she only had 3 months to live (!), time was running out, I struggled between keeping a secret and connecting him with her mother at the last way of her life…). She effectively distracted him from me. He immediately “returned” to her. I was glad, that he was helping his mother in these difficult moments. It doesn’t matter, that it disappeared for 3 months and appeared only a few days after giving birth…
Now, it sounds like a melodrama from some very very weak writer, ha ha ha 😊
My God, how much I experienced it all…
I hate Women’s Narcissists. They are 100 times worse and cunning, than Male Narcissists.
A woman… I can’t really say that about her. She doesn’t deserve it.
This is not a Woman.
And that’s not Mother.
I was a pawn in the game between them. They still want to play me – both of them. I know, they are watching me. I can feel their eyes burning. I can see her hiding behind his back.
A week ago, they telephone called me together. He was so happy and joyful and she was adding something from the side. Picture 😊 Idylla 😊 As if I did not know, that each of them is plunged into their own emptiness… Silence. They live in a tomb, not at home.
Silence and routine.
I was also very nice, though slightly bored with the prolonged chatter above the polite 2 minutes…
“Have you deposited? How much? Today? Ok, it will be tomorrow. When will you pay for March?”
Yes… I don’t recognize myself.
They are very hungry. A fresh pawn is not enough. Maybe he escaped…
Now, only he provides pawns.
I’ll wait a little longer…
I will calmly look at this spectacle…
And maybe even I take part in it.
At the right moment.
And maybe not.
Sorry, I wrote about HG, I ended up on N2. I littering the topic of Ultra… I humble myself.
But the topic is too convergent and I cannot understand, how someone with the syndrome of Greatness can make such a declaration about “Scapegoat”? Damn, it itches 😊
Badly. He knew perfectly well, that she had no cancer. Excuse. He knows her better, than any of her children.
When he returned years later, he immediately sent her hospital medical documents confirming a REAL stroke. He knew, I wouldn’t believe the words.
He contacted me 4 days after her stroke. He later pretended it was before the stroke.
He’s exceedingly nice now. And careful.
The ground is burning under his feet…
Retirement plan. Me – this is one of the options.
Yes, I know what you are up to.
Pay, my Love.
Your baby is finally enjoying it. Yesterday she bought herself shoes…
I will not lead you out of error.
Now, you are just one of the threads in my life.
The end is YOU or ME.
Thank you HG.
Joa, you write very interesting comments. I recall HG (somewhere else on this blog) saying to the effect of a child can be both a scapegoat and a golden child. It is similar (or the same as) golden period, respite period, devaluation period. I understand what you mean about female narcissists. The manipulations they use can be somewhat more ‘cutting’ and deeper than the males use. I hope you are doing ok, I am sorry to read about what they are doing to you. Stay strong, Joa 🙂
Joa, I found your comment around HG’s comment interesting:
“One thing surprised me the most about this conversation. The fact, that HG admits, that as a child he was a Scapegoat (?!). I thought, that despite the abuses, he would say the opposite, that he was a Golden Child. The strong and chosen ones. It “bites” to me a bit.
Is this kind of declaration due to self-awareness? HG?”
I was somewhat taken aback by this ‘confession’ from HG as well. I will always see him as a victim in the circumstances of his childhood and upbringing, so in one sense it’s not hard to determine as a victim he is also a ‘scapegoat’. This can be hard to marry up with his status at the ‘golden child’ in his mother’s eyes.
My personal opinion is that HG was scapegoated by his mother in being chosen as the golden child, while he was abandoned by his father. I feel his father’s tears of pride on his final results from University relate as much to pride as they do to an apology of sorts. This child, who he must have known (in spite of his characteristics – psychopathy and strengthening narcissism) was being mistreated, had somehow managed to achieve great things. Maybe they were tears of relief as well. HG’s success may have meant his ability to ‘overcome’ – the odds that in many ways were not in his favour.
The first time I read the series on tears it really affected me. I have a much greater understanding now of the many varieties of tears, although I have probably shed each and every kind related to the circumstances at hand. Tears are such a blessing.
I strongly believe when it comes to narcissists the golden child is also a version of the scapegoat child. They are being groomed by the narcissistic parent, chosen for that special role, with an enormous amount of pressure being placed on them to perform. It’s actually heartbreaking to think of the level of manipulation involved and how a sense of self could be completely lost.
Maybe I would look at it this way:
Scapegoat – uplifted (Golden) child.
Scapegoat – diminished (Scapegoat) child.
I see both as scapegoats, but one never really sees themselves as that.
In answer to your question, I would highly suspect this is a further element of HG’S awareness and one which also marks him as the “Ultra”.
LET, it was interesting to read your words RE: HG’s father and the tears of pride, suggesting it was more than just pride of the qualification achievement at that present moment. Thank you for sharing that. I liked how you worded “how a sense of self could be completely lost” – I would suggest this may be ‘applicable’ to ACONs (narcissist / empath). Good to read your thoughtful perceptions 🙂
Thanks, AspEmp 🙂
Yes, ACON’s are vulnerable, too, to this loss of a sense of self after being made the narcissistic parent’s extension. We fight hard to get that sense of self back and it can take a long time. For the narcissist, they have long ago abandoned the “true self” as “the Creature” and are left with only the false self their narcissism enables them to create in order to survive. This impenetrable shield which keeps true love and connection out in order to maintain control in all circumstances.
I was interested to hear HG say that he took more from his father than his mother and I need to listen again to understand how he perceives that after being so thoroughly indoctrinated by his mother to her narcissistic ways. Some of that was inherent, some was learned (or drilled into him), but what HG took from his father was likely character traits and residual benefits that he used to help create and build his facade which would be more endearing to others. Although it does sound like his mother was quite sociable and wielded a great deal of power amongst her social groups also. Why would HG take traits from his father if he considered him “weak” and “spineless”? Maybe because his father employed empathic traits which his mother did not have and which he could garner for his own purposes. I’m untangling these thoughts as I’m going along, Perhaps I’ve come to a conclusion … at least in my mind.
As you know, talk of HG’s father always makes me a little emotional, so I’ll leave it there. It’s like I have a Contagion element (which I don’t), but I feel this way for no known reason.
Good to chat again, Asp Emp xox
LET, thank you for your response 🙂 Let’s apply and consider that we ‘fought’ back as children and as growing up. But didn’t know what we were dealing with at the time. Yes my confidence came back when I was not in ‘direct’ ensnarements, yet was still “powerless” without HG’s work (pre-KTN knowledge).
I’d suggest that HG obtained character traits from both his parents – considering that the majority, if not all, children do this towards / from their peers while learning how to get what they want / need as part of their development? Either way, HG learned from both his parents and contributed to his ‘decision’ not to “permit” someone to control him using his vulnerabilities against him, which, in turn, ‘taught’ him to use other people’s vulnerabilities in whichever way that “met” his requirements at that present moment in time.
Maybe you have ‘reached’ your conclusion RE: HG’s parents. In my perception, the ‘weakness’ and ‘spineless’ was from the view of not protecting HG when he needed it as a child and having to endure abuse from which he had no control over – even whether he applied ‘control’ towards his father in some circumstances.
HG having cognitive empathy would be a ‘reason’ why he’d ‘adopt’ some of his father’s character traits, as well as ‘inherit’ some of the characteristics to a degree? I know HG appreciates inheriting his father’s intelligence, of which, HG has made great use of, thus ‘picking’ his father’s thoughts as residual benefits.
HG has shared on his blog about his father being abused but to what extent is not fully known (as it would not always have been ‘visible’ to the children). I suppose, maybe this is part of why HG (through his cognitive empathy) has no allegiance to narcissists and the creation of his Legacy.
HG’s father does sound a lovely man that had strong empathy which would have also been part of his weakness (not spineless). Maybe that is what partly ‘triggers’ the emotional?
Yes, good to chat again LET 🙂 x
AspEmp, you are right about not knowing what we were dealing with and the last part of your first paragraph says it all:
“my confidence came back when I was not in ‘direct’ ensnarements, yet was still “powerless” without HG’s work (pre-KTN knowledge)”
HG’s work definitely empowers us, and it’s amazing how our confidence returns when not in direct ensnarement with the narcissist. It’s absolutely true. I can literally pinpoint the moment my confidence is sapped when a narcissist is on the scene. Everything will be going ‘swimmingly’ and then ‘ZAP’, you come in for some form of narcissistic devaluation. That’s exactly what it’s like – being ZAPPED! In my imagination I see the narcissist pulling out their Wand of Devaluation and pointing it, so that whoever has encouraged their displeasure is suddenly and unceremoniously struck. It leaves you in a state of confusion, as often you don’t know what you have done to encourage their sense of displeasure, but it is also very arbitrary so there is no knowing if and when the ‘wand’ will be pointed in your direction. When you are out of this line of fire, you can relax and be yourself, feel appreciated, not fear any sudden devaluation on the whim of the narcissist. Definitely confidence building for those who’ve been affected.
No doubt HG viewed his father as ‘weak’ and ‘spineless’ due to any lack of protection he felt, but I think also because he lacks empathy and therefore views any show of such to be weak also. Empathy is a burden in his eyes, though it can be put to good use for the purposes of ensnaring others. I don’t mean to sound harsh, but rather logical, and thus the reason for accepting these traits is for his own purposes, not for the benefit of others. Much like his legacy is being built for his own purpose, but we inadvertently benefit from that. It is neither here nor there for HG whether we do or not, and in that sense it is up to us to grab what is being offered with both hands. Which we have done enthusiastically and the benefits definitely show 🙂
I actually didn’t give any thought to the aspect of intelligence, and was thinking more of what HG consciously acquired from his father, as opposed to unconsciously, or inherently acquired. His high degree of intelligence is definitely noteworthy, and if he ascribes that to his father then I can see how aspects of his father have benefited him, apart from his father’s empathy. HG’s ability to have cognitive empathy has also enabled him to draw from his father’s empathic nature.
When you say HG’s father was abused, do you mean by his mother? As in everyone in the family suffered from her narcissistic abuse, not just HG or his brother and sister? Either way, it’s no wonder HG has no sense of loyalty to other narcissists.
I do think HG’s father’s empathic nature really resonates with me for some reason. I don’t know why I feel it, but I literally experience a strong sense of empathy whenever this topic comes up. It’s been like that from Day 1 and I don’t know how to explain it, but certainly it aligns with my own sense of empathy in general. This, though, seems to be very specific. I am strongly urged to tears when it comes to this topic, and experience a very strong sense of sentimentality also. I do occasionally have this experience where I feel strongly connected to somebody, even though they are long dead, and also that they somehow are tapping into me and my emotions.
Anyway, that’s likely an episode for the Twilight Zone and not for Narcsite!
Indeed, it is good to chat, AspEmp <3 xox
LET, I know exactly what you mean when you use “zapped”. It is interesting but not surprising your words “has encouraged their sense of displeasure”. Sometimes the ‘assertion of control’ manipulations come out for something, that in reality is so trivial but in the perception of the narcissist/ic it is “major”. Mountain out of a molehill. Like, seriously?! (Laughing here). Sometimes it is not necessarily “confusion”, sometimes it is “seriously, WTF!?”. A higher-up narcissist did not necessarily do this when it was a one-to-one meeting but if their “grievance” (snort!) is done in front of a group of people, ah, the devaluation “response” was like cutting you in half with a sword, in front of all and sundry.
I wonder if ‘adopting’ characteristic traits is more appropriate rather than “accepting” them? When a narcissist is ‘accessing’ (tapping into) that person’s, sometimes they are ‘stealing’ the character traits. In the perception of the narcissist, the ‘giver’ may appear to be “offering” their character traits.
RE: HG’s father being abused (via manipulations / control), if you consider the number of narcissists within HG’s family. I imagine they also did “club” together (not necessarily ‘planned’ ie cognitively), sometimes this would have been done out of sight of the children. HG would not necessarily know all about exactly what went on but would ‘see’ it in his father’s eyes, and sometimes, in the behaviours (responses) of his father?
In the thread ‘Cookie Jar’ (01/04/2017), HG says “No I could not disclose it to my father, he knew, but there was no point”. Another element of no protection from his father = ‘spineless’ and weakness for not being an intervener for HG when it was needed / necessary.
https://narcsite.com/2017/04/01/cookie-jar-2/#comment-85704 this comment makes me sad for both HG and his father.
The above links are only a few I copied / pasted here. This thread is rather interesting, there are some things here that are worth considering.
With regard to your last paragraph, I understand what you mean. I had not realised how much muvver’s manipulations would have affected my father (through anger, not fear of her), which adds to my empathy for him. I suppose, that is partly why I found it very painful going through my own personal journey on KTN. I mean, I knew my father died of a long illness, but to be subject to being married to a manipulative b*tch – ah, that would have added to my ‘hatred’ for muvver. I would rather know and understand it rather than to not know. It ‘validated’ my ‘fury’ and hatred for her.
In that instance, I would suggest that is not as you suggest “Twilight Zone” and that it is relevant to Narcsite.
It is good to read your views and thank you, LET 🙂 x
AspEmp, you’re first paragraph made me think of something HG said in one of his articles about guests being served before the narcissist at dinner, and how that would go down like a lead balloon, even though etiquette would dictate guests are normally served first. That definitely is a WTF?! moment in the larger scheme of things when the narcissist decides to call you out for it then or later. Walking on eggshells is an understatement when it comes to the narc!
Humiliation in front of others is likely one of their greatest weapons and one of our greatest devastations, which feels exactly as you describe it – like being cut in half with a sword – and more often than not it’s done in a manner where you have no comeback, making it even more effective. The narcissist takes pleasure in our humiliation, and their lack of empathy ensures they can carry it out without so much as a second thought.
Yes, I think “adopting” or “acquiring” is more appropriate than “accepting” … thanks for pointing that out. Narcissists are actively taking these things to make their own, and ‘accepting’ gives the impression they are being imposed on them, or offered to them. That is not the case. Not at all. They take what is not theirs and use it for their own purposes. Good point and interesting thought on the narcissist’s perspective with regard to these things being “offered” … with their sense of entitlement, I could assume everything is an ‘offering’ and nothing is off the table if they can see the benefit of acquiring it.
I am going to take a look at the “Cookie Jar” link you have provided, AspEmp, and thank you for doing so. I know it’s going to be somewhat emotional, so I’ll feedback later on it xox
When you see the full extent of the manipulations of the narcissist and their impact on others, it’s not hard to feel even more hatred/anger at how that has impacted not only you, but others around you. You and your father obviously had a very close connection, and you will know and understand his pain now that it has been fully revealed. It’s not just us who are affected, but our own pain needs to be dealt with first as it is the most searing in the circumstances. Dealing with that then allows us to extend our understanding to others and the impact it had on them. I don’t get the sense you’ve ever judged your father over the circumstances, and there is a sense you ultimately know where the blame lies. Truth is, everyone was a victim, your father included. I’ll be interested to see what more HG has to say in the link provided.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts again, AspEmp, and I’ve exited the Twighlight Zone for now, but I’ll prepare for a re-entry as necessary. I’m glad someone else understands and will consider it still relevant to Narcsite as you suggest <3
LET, yes, I know the article you are referring to, (damn) the title escapes me….walking on eggshells with muvver was the worst, ever. I totally agree with you RE: humiliation in front of others. Yes, a second ‘come back’ would not be forthcoming following a physical assault by muvver.
RE: your third paragraph about the character traits – thank you 🙂 I don’t know why but as I was reading your words, it reminded me of HG’s ‘The Dozen of Dismay’ article with the head on the dinner plate….I think it’s the words ‘offered’ and ‘table’, which I think is a different perceptive altogether 🙂
RE: the ‘Cookie Jar’ links, you’re welcome 🙂
Absolutely, the anger / hatred existed pre-KTN knowledge. Interesting though, the intensity I felt back then has lessened a great deal since. I have to admit though, it is in some way, the emotion of my anger / hatred for muvver “solidified” if you can understand what I mean? I don’t carry it as such. It is validated = solidified. I suppose, what I am saying is, it is as if my understanding now has ‘confirmed’ (validation), so instead of being a fog of anger / hatred, it is a small stone, if you can understand?
Thank you for saying that you do not see that I lay any blame at my father at all. I never did.
Yes, no-exit Narcsite, exit Twilight 🙂 🙂 I am glad my understanding you gives you some ‘quietening’ of your thoughts. Thank you for sharing more of your way of thinking. Good to read and interesting too, LET 🙂 xx
AspEmp, thanks for your reply and I do understand what you mean about your negative feelings toward your mother being “solidified”. In a way, they are now ‘contained’, as you have been able to see them correctly in the light of your mother’s narcissism and neatly package that away as a puzzle finally pieced together. You have made sense of your experience, and it is a blessing to be able to do that and finally put it to rest … give it closure, if you will. There is no need to take it out again. It has been explained. In a sense it is finite. Meaning it has a beginning and an end. This will help keep it from troubling you further. I have also placed these boundaries around my last narcissistic relationship. Overwhelming and out of control emotions no longer bother me. It’s a simple “This is what is was, now it is done.” I know the narcissist doesn’t see it that way if we come up on their radar again, but when it comes to your mother, her radar has been removed and you can never be affected by those Spheres of Influence again. I am happy for you 🙂
LET, thank you for your response. Absolutely, you do get it – solidified = contained = a stone that can now be stepped ‘over’ along the path that is my life. The ‘obstacles’ of clarity having been removed.
It is good to read “Overwhelming and out of control emotions no longer bother me. It’s a simple “This is what is was, now it is done.”” – that is a good sign that your ET / LT ‘re-programming’ is effective 🙂 Kudos to you 🙂
AspEmp, I like your description of a stone that can now be stepped over along the path of your life 🙂 It’s no longer there to trip you up, but to step on or over as you see fit.
It seems my “re-progamming” is effective for now and if I was a computer I’d obviously be functioning to a higher efficiency right now 🙂
Oh, that reminds me … Elon Musk!
HG, I think he is a splendid candidate to go under the Tudorscope if/when you have time.
LET, this is another comment that slipped the ‘net’. Thank you RE: stone ‘concept’ 🙂
RE: Elon Musk, he shared that he was diagnosed with Aspergers…..if he is a greater narcissist, then he knows what he is (maybe he is a hybrid?). He does seem to have a high level of intelligence in the field(s) he works in, plus he has the financial position. TBH I don’t know much about Elon but there is a level of grandiosity.
AspEmp, I’m not surprised in some ways Elon was diagnosed with Asperger’s based on the fact he is a fascinating personality who at times seems to lack filters and is also a great innovator – as in is very gifted in applying the lateral thinking you so often talk about.
He takes people by surprise with his no nonsense approach to things at times and his takeover bid for Twitter seems to be one of those “WTF?!” moments for many. He’s not playing the game the way it’s meant to be played and it’s interesting to see the fallout from that.
Does he do it because he can and enjoys the disruption he can cause, is he really as altruistic as he sounds, or should we attribute it to an element of lateral thinking which counters what most people would normally expect if one plays by the rules already set?
Definitely an element of grandiosity, and his relationship with his first wife shows many indicators of narcissism from what I have read. I don’t know how you separate the two (Asperger’s/Narcissism) in relation to Musk, but it would make for a fascinating study.
LET, interesting thoughts about Elon. You prompted me to read about his first wife – I’d read an article where she described herself as being ‘a starter wife’. Wow, an indicator?, filing for divorce and then being engaged within weeks. Apparently he’d told her they’d met at a party she had not been to then telling her at a much later date that he’d seen her from across the room. There is the suggestion of crossing of boundary as he is a man that does not take ‘no’. It is some of the quotes from this article that makes me think ‘red flags’ and I am reminded of HG’s article ‘The Revision of History’.
I understand that HG has a plan to write something about narcissism and autism at some point with the differences between the two. I suppose I can use myself as an example to separate some aspects of Aspergers and narcissism from narcissists of my past. There are some things that narcissists do that I do not do.
I did wonder whether there was an element of the DNA ‘connection’ where the autism / ADHD and narcissism comes from the more or less same ‘strands’ of DNA but is dependent on the parental and grand-parental genetics – including some of the mutations (contributors) ie environmental impact as well as the LOCEs.
In my opinion, Elon is self-aware, regardless of what he is.
Recently, I have very little time, so only quickly:
LET, with people who are no longer alive, we are connected by memories of FEELINGS. Memories of facts blur, physical characteristics of the person blurry, but feelings are always “alive”, always “colorful”, always “strong” and strongly “smell”. If you delve into yourself, you can feel as much as if that person is still here – even if they’ve been dead for 30 years.
Remembering your feelings is one of the basic features of an empath. They permeate every cell of the body and you cannot forget them. You can put it aside, do something else, but that memory is still there.
As for the father of HG – it should be remembered that a narcissistic mother puts father and son in front of each other (she brings up the child, as if she was preparing a fighter for a fight in the ring). Father and son become rivals – on unconscious levels. Giving favor to one or the other, she is always in a winning position.
N2’s mother raised him as her tool of revenge and destroying the world.
He lived with a feeling of immense danger to his father. So much, so that when he saw him as a child, he vomited and peed himself in his panties. He never dared to see his father again. I know this from his sister. This story was used to make fun of him and to keep all children away from their father. Mother gave N2 “shelter” (cage) from the evil father – from the evil world.
I fear, that the instrument of destruction, she has created, will strike her at the very end.
I’m afraid, this tool will crumble to dust then…
Joa, I love the thought of how memories live on, in every cell of our body, and science apparently to a large extent agrees. But, we are talking on a different level, about feelings, and I agree. We can call on them in an instant, even if some of the facts are blurry and all the details hard to identify. This can be uplifting at times, as well as very painful, and the embracing of both allows us to experience life more fully. In that sense, we are fully alive to not only what is happening now, but also what has gone before.
In this instance, I have no connection to HG’s father apart from HG’s sharing here, but for some reason am deeply connecting on an emotional level. The logic goes out the window as the feelings take over. It’s something that I don’t understand, but I accept it has meaning – I just don’t know what. We open ourselves up to different experiences, but I feel as though I have been opened up to this experience as it’s one I did not seek.
You make a good point about the mother preparing the son and how father and son then become rivals as the mother sits in the middle of this triangulation. I think I’ve expressed similar thoughts here in the past about how the narcissist manipulates in this way to cause or create disconnection where there should be none. I think, put in simple terms, it is “divide and conquer”, with little thought given to how significant other relationships could be harmed. As long as the narcissist has the upper hand, then that is all that matters – CONTROL.
That is an awful and very sad story about “N2”, Joa. He was exposed to serious trauma as a child due to his mother’s narcissism and even worse she used the fear she created in him to humiliate him. I hate hearing these stories about children and how their innocence is destroyed and their vulnerabilities used against them all to satisfy and please the narcissist. It is not hard to feel sorry for them in that sense. As empaths we feel the pain of their experiences, too.
I think you are right about the instrument of destruction the narcissist creates, and how it will strike them in the end. Control in the now doesn’t lend itself to thinking about how that need for control can ultimately be the cause of their downfall.
Wow. Impromptu……. Thank you for yet another entertaining, enlightening and interesting Livestream, HG. It certainly gave me a good number of laughs and giggles :-), I loved it! Xx
(when I saw the image, I thought, oh, ‘Sex and The Narcissist’…..not far off the subject though….laughing).
I struggle with the livestreams a bit to be honest. I prefer the three hour Q&A we had here on the blog. I listened to the first couple on YouTube then stopped. I’ll try this one.
I know this sounds bad, but I got very bored with the non questions from viewers. People have HG there, ready for an hour and they waste it with non questions. I don’t get it. Fire something meaty at him!
The empaths here on the blog are far more searching in their questioning and they pursue a line of questioning to drill down. I hope we still get more blog Q&A at some point, I loved those.
TS, have you tried any of the “Premiere’s”? They are much the same and move very fast. I missed this one, but listened afterwards and rather than focus on the “Chat”, I just listen to HG repeat the questions and give his answers. I have also been on the live chat and it’s difficult sometimes because multiple conversations are going on at the same time across different people or groups of people. That one is a little different as it’s more for commentary (or live chat) than it is for questions and answers, but the rate at which it moves and you can type a response means any delay can make the conversation more distorted and harder to follow. It is what it is, and I notice sometimes the chat goes quiet as people focus more on what HG is saying., but similar thing for me. I’ve got sidetracked from the focus of the video in order to chat and it’s hard to keep everyone happy – as in listen and comment and converse all at the same time. Of course, we’ve got some brilliant multitaskers who manage quite well, but I wouldn’t number myself amongst them 😛
I enjoy the blog Q&A’s as well, so let’s hope we get another opportunity for something less frenetic and where HG takes the reins more firmly within that format. Just an opinion which I share with you xox
LET, thank you for sharing your experiences and views, good to read them 🙂
Yes, I’m similar LET.
I don’t generally pay too much attention to the chat as it scrolls down. Conversations are disjointed and it moves very fast. Occasionally I pick out a name of another blog reader but on the occasions I made the lives I didn’t seem to spot them.
I feel for HG because I think it must be quite taxing to pick out the questions from the conversations. That said I can see the reason why listeners like to chat, the same reasons as we like to chat here. It seems more natural on the blog as we see the same names come up, less so on YouTube. I’m also very biased to the blog as this is where I found you all!
I too prefer just to concentrate on what HG has to say. This applies to the premieres also. I’m rubbish at multi tasking. I generally focus on one thing to completion then the next. HG repeats the questions so I can happily focus on listening rather than typing or reading. As you know, my learning style is more visual over auditory so I do have to focus when listening.
I do think the questions are less well thought out when posed on YouTube though. Taking into consideration new listeners, I still feel that’s the case. I enjoy the humour, and I think it’s important for listeners to see that side to HG. He can’t help people if they are put off by his diagnosis or if he seems unapproachable. I’m very keen for people to consult with HG because when reading some YouTube comments I see some people in real need of HG’s assistance.
I’m not trying to be the fun police, I just get frustrated by the lack of thought out questions on the part of the listeners when HG has set the livestream up for everybody. It feels disrespectful in a way. You know what I’m like about stuff like that LET. It’s my sticking point.
NA also echoed some of my thinking, I’ll continue with my response to her comment.
I hear you TS. It seems the only purpose for a number of people is to just show up and write anything hoping to hear HG say their name. Great if that’s your thing, but it does seem a wasted opportunity and if the sessions don’t hold HG’s interest or prove worthy of his time, well….
Aside from that – what is the purpose in people declaring “first!”? Is there a prize? I always picture those people as the same ones who start every sentence with “So …..”
Very much so, it often feels like people are wasting an opportunity. I agree HG will only continue with livestreams if he sees them as a valuable use of his time. This is also my concern.
I thought to myself a while ago how incredibly rare it must be for a diagnosed narcissistic psychopath to actually communicate honestly and share his view of the world. There are researchers out there that would give their right arm to have their questions answered. It’s one hell of an opportunity isn’t it? Psychopaths aren’t exactly known for being open with their thoughts! Here we have access to a high functioning successful psychopath, we get to ask him questions, and, he actually answers! Yes, we want to understand narcissism, we want help understanding our own ensnarements, aside from that though, a high functioning narcissistic psychopath, that’s an opportunity right there. Squandering it through non questions seems crazy to me.
Climbing down from soap box now.
TS, thank you for sharing your thoughts on HG’s Livestreams.
I am just responding with my observations / take on it.
People may chat in between HG’s answering the questions – if HG stated to people to stop “chatting” and just ask him questions, listen to his answers without anything else to ‘chat’ about, it may put some people off from taking part in his Livestreams.
I think (and believe) he does appreciate how his Livestreams ‘operate’. With people ‘chatting’ in between, it can prompt someone to think of another question to ask HG. And, it also offers HG to make a comment on something someone may have said, even if it is not necessarily a question.
It may be more aimed as a Q&A ‘platform’ and I appreciate HG’s approach and his flexibility in offering (and encouraging) a discussion between a group of people of a shared and common interest – about HG and about narcissism.
The blog’s Q&A sessions may not work in the same way, as the ‘flow’ of conversation does not appear in the order (systematic / continuity) as it does on the YT channel. Even though HG can work very quickly during a WordPress blog live-session, the YT option is probably more efficient and faster for him to work with and he can do this from wherever he can use his mobile phone, which gives HG more flexibility.
We know that when it comes to HG moderating comments on WordPress, he cannot see the previous comment ‘window’ and sometimes he has to ask the comment to be repeated. I am not sure, but I do not think HG can access different screens ie use the front screen (what we see when we in front of us) and the back screen (HG’s moderating screen) and use WordPress on two laptops at the same time because of the one-signing-in-option. It is probably not feasible to use mobiles phones for 3 hour blog Q&A sessions.
I know it has been discussed on the blog (here) previously that YT and KTN blog ‘platforms’ may attract different commentors. It was mentioned that the ‘dynamics’ were different – how people commented etc.
What we do not know for a fact, is how many male commentors are ‘present’ on KTN blog, compared to how many there may be on YT. Is this something we have not necessarily ‘considered’? We know that not as many men report abuse to the authorities (if and when) appropriate?
I believe HG explained in his Interviews with Doug, about how HG was going to work slightly differently because of his increasing workload around his Legacy and the expansion of that. There has been, no doubt, an increase in the ‘demand’ for consultations.
I considered what you said and what LET said about the YT Livestreams. It made me consider that maybe HG wants to portray that he is actually an approachable person by talking out loud and connect more directly with his audience rather than just a typed ‘version’ (WP live-session) and an opportunity for new and existing people to get to ‘know’ him.
Of course, we all know that he likes to talk about himself and about the subjects that he knows so much about. He has an audience that are very much ‘present’ with him. It is a very different type of ‘audience’ as he cannot talk freely about narcissism / narcissists when he is with his private / personal life friends.
Thank you for your comment. Yes, I can appreciate the YouTube Livestreams will attract a different audience and that has to be a good thing. We want more people to have greater access to HG’s material and also to HG himself. Some people will find him through YouTube and they might not have found him via Narcsite if they weren’t searching in a somewhat targeted way. That’s also the beauty of the videos that analyse famous people. Listeners might stumble into his work before they even realise that it has direct relevance to them. With narcissism being so widespread it is relevant to everyone, even though they might not realise it.
There is always the option to turn off the live chat also. I don’t actually need to watch it I do have the option just to listen haha! I agree also that the advantage is the impromptu aspect of the sessions. They run more often than the Q&A which is another bonus.
The blog Q&A felt more coherent to me personally. I was able to follow the questions and responses more easily, mostly because there was less chatter in between. There was time to consider the questions posed. That said, there is a benefit to listeners interacting with each other on the YouTube livestreams and I can understand people wanting to chat with names they recognise.
I think overall, it’s the types of comments / questions posted that niggle. The repeated comments about HG’s voice, or the complaints about sound, the shout outs, the non questions. I’m a purist I think haha! The blog Q&A felt far more searching, more in depth and more revealing.
Also as regards Knowing HG, I would never ask questions related to that on YouTube. Too personal. Even if the question wasn’t answered it could still be read and that feels very wrong to me. The blog Q&A felt more enclosed, so whilst I’d still cringe at some of the questions I asked ( literally face pull as I pressed send) I still felt able to ask them. That’s one of the main reasons that I would miss the blog Q&A if HG switched solely to YouTube for those sessions.
Even if HG green lighted those kinds of questions on YouTube, I still wouldn’t be able to ask, far too public.
Essentially, different platforms for different people and that can only be a good thing. The direct contact with HG is a real opportunity and I hope that people make the most of the knowledge he has to offer in these sessions.
Hey TS 🙂 (this is the fifth comment that I have ‘found’ and was not notified about – sorry).
I understand what you say about the differences between the live sessions on both YT and WP. I think quite a number of people have similar thoughts because of not necessarily being used to using such mediums ie WP / YT, or the awareness of the existence of these platforms that HG is using as part of his Legacy.
He has recently (today) posted about the new -ish platform he has signed up to use as a further extension of his Legacy, including the extension of his pipelines for the purpose of reaching more people.
HG has a far better idea than the majority of people with regard to the different social media platforms that is available around the world. I think that is partly what he is aiming for – to offer and widen the access to his work from other parts of the world ie where WordPress may not be available, nor FB – that sort of ‘reasoning’.
Personally, I think HG has reached a prime peak in his Legacy and he can only go further from here to there in his ‘new’ book of knowledge and wisdom. What is truly amazing about him, he is human, like other people. It is what he does that is entirely different. Long may his Legacy continue 🙂
Yes, totally, I’m actually pretty rubbish with a lot of social media stuff. I don’t use it as a general rule. My Facebook account is mothballed, I had a couple of apps I used in conjunction with my online game, but even then I would use them for a short period, specific purpose then delete.
My daughter introduced me to TikTok ages ago, that’s still on my iPad and amuses me for 10 mins here and there, My feed has streamlined itself to workout videos, animal videos and, army and fire service training videos. I wonder how that happened!!!
My daughter also created a Snapchat account for me. Handy for photo storage and silly filters. I’m honoured to be in snap groups with her and her friends. My son unfollowed me so his friends couldn’t find me. I hadn’t thought of that, I thought it was sweet of him to protect his mum from his randy mates!
YouTube and now Patreon I keep pretty much for HG, you’re right though, people have preferences for different platforms and HG is sensibly casting his net wide.
I’m old school. The blog feels safe to me. A place where it feels more enclosed to discuss my thoughts. I’m quiet on the other platforms, gobby as hell on here. I figure you can have too much of a good thing! Haha!
TS, thank you for sharing more about your thoughts in regard to social media platforms. Your son has done a respectful thing to prevent his friends from being able to see what you may post. I know of a mother who did something similar with her son’s friends so they could not see her posts. Yes, I agree, the blog and the other platforms HG is using have different ‘dynamics’ where it comes to the users of each platform. Good to read your thoughts on this 🙂
You have the best voice for reading stories. I could listen to you talk all day..xoxo
HG would love to know. Can two narcissists marry and have a long term albeit dysfunctional marriage? What does that look like and what would be the cause of a breakdown that would lead to them breaking up?
Depends on the sub schools of narcissists involved.
Saw it a decade ago, before I learned about narcissists, but if memory serves, Who’s Afraid of Virginia Woolf? with Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton, depicts a long term marriage between two narcissists, who are devaluing each other for the night.
Hi Christine, I know you asked HG so I hope it is okay for me to reply also. My parents were both narcissists, married 60 years. One was UMR Elite, the other LMR Victim, the marriage was hell and impacted all in the house in a negative manner. My siblings left home as young adults and have virtually never come back. I have been sorting through the mess this caused in me since reaching adulthood, finding this blog and HG’s work has been very instrumental in my recovery.
It looked like two people who were both always trying to maintain control of every situation with no regard for anyone else in the house including each other. They figured out ways to undermine each other at every turn and we kids were used as pawns in their whim in their various machinations. I have seen firsthand the secret life of one, my dad never knew that my mother was abusing us until decades after it stopped. I have seen how she prevented him from finding this out and how she compartmentalized her life quite thoroughly. Thinking about it from this perspective, it actually was a birds-eye view into the secrets, something I had not realized before. And something I would’ve been happy to not see. But it does help me understand a bit of how it functions with those who kept secrets from me, like seeing the flip side of that. I hope this helps answer your question a little. It would likely look quite different with two of different schools and cadres.
Questions that came to me while reading your comment about your parents that you of course have no obligation to answer:
Given that your parents were both narcissists, how do you see it as having played out had your father become aware of your mother abusing you at the time and not decades after?
What did he do about it when he did find out decades later?
Did he leave her?
Hi NA, I’m not getting notifications again apparently, glad for a quiet Fri evening to check through for ones I’ve missed.
I really couldn’t say what he would have done had he found out as it was happening. He was never violent when I knew him but my mother constantly reminded us of the time he’d shared with her as a young man when he been fighting another man and almost killed him. He never was engaged in another physical altercation in his life, it really scared him. She also shared how early in their marriage, during a heated discussion, he had threatened her with breaking the bedroom door open if she ever locked him out. At the time these two things seemed so odd, they didn’t match with the man I knew, he was only physical with his facial muscles, we could always tell when he was upset by them. But she used these stories to control us, we were always on edge that we might bring out this beast so tiptoed around him, it drove a wedge between us and him and gave her much more control. It is no wonder I struggle so with cognitive dissonance. Anyway, my best guess at an answer is that he would’ve done nothing, because it would’ve meant changing the status quo and that would’ve been work.
When he learned of it years later he verbally apologized to two of us, not sure about the third, and forgot about it. He really didn’t care that it had happened. He never left her.
That’s really interesting AV that your parents were UMR Elite, the other LMR Victim. My sister is UMR Elite and husband LMR of some description likely also Elite. I have little to do with them now and was NC for many years. My mother went to stay with them regularly, (my sister was the golden child). She described their relationship as tumultuous at best, naturally siding with my sister because he gets very aggressive (largely brought on by my sister’s calculation, she loves making him angry – he’s definitely an N though, pure evil too. I think my sister loved the angry response she got from her husband. She always went for the same type of bf – always! Two of her children definitely Ns (I know HG and professionals won’t diagnose but the signs are heavily there). One of them diagnosed with ODD as a child, and he’s a nightmare. He once said to my son, when he grows up he wants to be a policeman so that he can commit crime and then cover it up??!! The third child is autistic and I feel desperately sorry for them.
Recently they’ve taken in a Ukranian family. plastered this all over FB according to my son (I don’t use SM at all). She lives far from me, picked them up from London and brought them to meet me on her way home. They all seem so lovely and I feel massively sorry for them. They are fortunate to be in the UK, but it will be a rollercoaster ride they didn’t expect for sure. I suspect though there will be many Ukranians in this position. Others fortunate to have been taken in by empathic people. I’m guessing normals are less likely to. It will be empaths or Ns who take on this role. She made sure she brought me a huge present and gave it to me in front of them, I felt uncomfortable because the children obviously love presents. If it had of been the other way around, I would have given the present in private. Then I received a voice message with her singing happy birthday to me the following day. Usually I’d get a text, she never forgets my birthday, but the creepy singing was for the benefit of the Ukranians rather than me, I have no doubt.
Wow, I’m so sorry for you. And for the Ukranian family, glad they are safe but I hope they are okay. Why do narcissists want to “help” these people? I get it with empaths but narcissists surprises me. The prime aims I’m guessing but they’d really have to expose themselves for that to happen. I think my sister is a narcissist also, I’d be surprised if she would take in any refugees but if she did, they would hate being there very quickly. Aren’t the games they play just so fucked up? The gift thing, the birthday song, these are supposed to be good things but in the hands of narcissists, they become evil tools. It is so sad.
I guess it’s all about the facade for Ns plus unless they’re a greater they believe they’re doing something good. Es of course do it because they do care. You won’t believe this though AV, literally just heard they decided to go back home?!?! Apparently they love my sister and her family so that wasn’t the reason…perhaps.
Oh wow, that’s interesting. I hope it’s safe for them. Thank you for the explanation, that makes sense.
You are so informative and entertaining. May God bless you.