No Good Advice
Relationship advice. The internet is awash with it. Sites, blogs, question and answer sessions, videos on YouTube there is a plethora of advice about how to deal with the problems which arise in intimate relationships.
I decided recently to have a good look through many of these sites and gather together the common complaints which people raise when they submit their issues. There are plenty of submissions, thousands upon thousands of people complaining about the issues in their relationships. Oddly enough, I noticed a common thread with many of these complaints where people had written in to seek advice or explained their circumstances. Time and time again I saw the following:-
“Everything was wonderful to begin with, he swept me off my feet.”
“She made me feel like a king and it was just what I needed after how horrible my marriage had been.”
“I was taken aback by how loving he was, but it felt so good to be treated that way after everything that I had been through.”
“He told me how he had been hurt before and didn’t want to go through that again.”
“His ex-wife was horrible to him and he had been hurt but wanted to ensure everything was right between us.”
“Everything was marvellous for a few months and then he changed.”
“I didn’t know him anymore.”
“He started controlling me.”
“She told me who I could see.”
“He started to isolate me from family and friends.”
“He would flirt with other women.”
“She spent all of her time on the internet doing Lord knows what.”
“He never listens to me.”
“He became abusive.”
“The sex was amazing at first but then it just stopped.”
“He was so loving and attentive in bed but then he started suggesting threesomes and kinky stuff which I didn’t like.”
“He started to make decisions for me.”
“She would lose her temper over the smallest thing.”
“He would disappear for days on end and I was sick with worry.”
“He would not speak to me for several days even though I had done nothing wrong.”
“He started hitting me. He said sorry afterwards and seemed remorseful for what he had done, blaming it on seeing his dad beat him mum when he was young.”
“He doesn’t like anything I do any more, he puts me down.”
“Its like living with Jekyll and Hyde.”
“He just never contacted me again. I still don’t know what has happened.”
“He told me he couldn’t be with me anymore as he needed time to himself and then two days later I see him post about a new girlfriend on social media.”
“He was unfaithful to me repeatedly.”
“I still miss her after everything she has done.”
“I am financially ruined, stressed but I still love him.”
“Why can’t it be like it was in the beginning?”
“I want him back.”
I should imagine that all of you will be nodding at these comments for two reasons. First of all, you remember saying them yourself or something similar. Secondly, you now realise what was actually behind these behaviours. People like me.
Over and over again I saw questions and tales which all had the common theme of ‘Brilliant start, he became someone else, dumped me, I was heartbroken.’ Hundreds upon hundreds of these stories, these tales of misery and woe. A litany of despondency and confusion that has been piled up in the inboxes of the relationship advisors and gurus. I scrolled through them all, reading the replies, the advice and the suggestions. I read the analysis, I digested the observations and spent some considerable time doing so. What did I see?
Not one person raised the possibility that the person seeking advice had become involved with a narcissist. Not one.
Many of these blogs and relationship advice sites were clearly popular. Some were established names, linked to lifestyle magazines and newspapers. Many directed you to their services for counselling and relationship tool kits. Many of them trotted out similar comments and platitudes. Too often they read like the first world tribulations of a scene from Sex and the City rather than the abusive, destructive and harmful actions of dangerous narcissists.
Yet not one of them raised the suggestion that a narcissist was involved.
Now, naturally it is not the case that behind every relationship woe there is a narcissist but I know that those of you reading this, with the benefit of the enlightenment you have achieved knows that there is a good chance that problems of this nature as described repeatedly in the problems pages of these sites are something to do with people like my kind. Yet nobody was offering this as a possibility. That shows the scale of how easy it is for us to do what we do and pass undetected. It shows the staggering lack of knowledge about what we do say, think and do and the naivety of so many people, including those who apparently understand relationship dynamics.
Instead, I saw standard and repeated responses such as:-
“He is clearly a commitment phobe.”
No, he doesn’t want to spend time with you because he is devaluing you and is actually seducing someone else at the current time.
“You have outgrown each other.”
No, you never grew together to begin with because it was all predicated on an illusion and his lack of interest now is symptomatic of his interest being elsewhere.
“He may just be tired or stressed from working hard to support you and your children.”
Yes or he might be a narcissist who uses his rage to intimidate and control you.
“You may have unrealistic expectations about the relationship.”
Damn right you do and we all know why that has happened don’t we?
“You need him to take responsibility for his actions. He cannot keep blaming you for everything.”
Good luck with that one.
“He just might not be into you.”
Half-right I suppose, he just isn’t in to you fuel anymore, he is in to somebody else’s.
“He might be bored with life and not you. Try harder to interest him.”
Again, good luck with that one.
“Relationships require hard work. Don’t give up. Keep working at it and you can overcome the problems together.”
You have just been told to sign your own death warrant there.
“Some people have anger issues but that can managed with understanding and therapy.”
Or they have fury which ignites at the slightest provocation and always will.
“Being hurt is an inevitable part of a relationship.”
It is if you get ensnared by my kind.
I am not suggesting that every problem in a relationship is as a consequence of the other party being a narcissist, that is unrealistic. However, the number of times I read about what was clearly the narcissistic dynamic of seduction, devaluation and discard was significant. The monumental amount of times that I recognised narcissistic manipulations – rage attacks, silent treatments, triangulation, intimidation, bullying, gas lighting and so forth – in so many posts did not surprised me but they were not picked up on. Many times these manipulations were not isolated events. There were repeated occasions and also differing types of the manipulations which when combined and repeated point in one direction.
The advice and platitudes that were provided to people who were clearly, not just possibly, but clearly entangled with a narcissist, were way off the mark. The descriptions and answers I have listed above were the ones which were provided to people and at best this would mean the person would remain clueless and stuck with no appropriate solution and at worst they were providing advice which would harm the individual who had sought the advice.
I was not surprised by this erroneous advice. I was not amazed by this omission of our kind from the explanations. I was not taken aback by the scale of people complaining about what was clearly narcissistic abuse but not being told as such.
This is why we are able to do what we do.
This is why we are able to move amongst people, ensnare fresh victims and maintain our veneer of respectability.
This is why what we do is passed off as something else. Euphemised, diluted, lessened and made to seem like a standard relationship hiccup.
This is why ignorance is so harmful.
This is why we remain so effective.
This is why we remain so dangerous.
25 thoughts on “No Good Advice”
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HG, where are you. We are all missing you. Hope all is okay with you. Its not the same without our beloved HG.
Best,
DB
Hello DB, I have been addressing other matters which have included some substantial professional commitments alongside consultations etc.
HG, your back. Great all is well with you. That is understandable about work commitments. Delighted your back.
Best,
DB
DB: have you been following HG’s analysis of Tom Bower’s book on yt? There are listeners who wonder if he ever sleeps–I’ve been listening in the midst of packing and traveling to my new place for training (have to return for the big move), and I’m not even close to catching up, there’s so much material. Great comic relief, though–HG’s snide comments, I mean: the catalog of Duchess Sizzler’s misdeeds is merely dreary or enraging on its own.
My new school told me the kids were supposed to read Screwtape over the summer, but there was a miscommunication, so we need to go over it the first week of class. I told them, “I know of this great recording…. “
If you’ve lived enough, you learn that narcs can be be more valuable and dependable than most…why? They are strong and dependable.
I have learned more about us (the Narc people and the Empath people) and wonder …
how history has been shaped by both?
HG,
If we all promise to be really sweet will you come back to us? Please. Pretty Please.
You are missed. A lot.
Till you return.
Hopefully soon.
Best,
DB
“The monumental amount of times that I recognised narcissistic manipulations – rage attacks, silent treatments, triangulation, intimidation, bullying, gas lighting and so forth – in so many posts did not surprised me but they were not picked up on. Many times these manipulations were not isolated events. There were repeated occasions and also differing types of the manipulations which when combined and repeated point in one direction.” and “at worst they were providing advice which would harm the individual who had sought the advice.”
No “good advice” is better than “bad advice”.
Some people can ‘see’ it.
Some people can’t.
Some people won’t see it.
This article is awesome HG. Everyone should read it and share. When my ex narcissist was trying to ensnare me I was only 20 years old, he was 26. At that time I had no idea what psychopathy and narcissism was. He asked me out. But I was not in love with him. I just wanted to spend some time with someone. I suffered from depression at that time and I was lonely because I did not have many friends in that place of work. I noticed that he behaved a bit strange but I didn’t do anything about it. He started questioning me ( like an interrogation) about my family, my past, my former relationships. For example, he asked me “how many boyfriends have you had before”. I did not want to talk about it. And then he told me that he prefers sexually experienced girls because that kind of girls don’t want to go to bed with someone else. (I have no idea how he came into this conclusion). He knew that I hadn’t had any boyfriend before, and he wanted to gain fuel from me. Now I think that he wanted me to adore and admire him but I didn’t do it, and he started devaluation process because of it.
HG What do you think? If a narcissist wants to seduce his victim and the victim does not adore him and does not admire him, will the narcissist punish his victim and devalue her?
I just had dinner with my narc. And you guys… I am SO HAPPY I saw him. Not for the reason you’d think… not for the reasons you’d think at all… but because for the first time in 4 years… I hAve REAL closure. He basically said he wasn’t interested in opening things back up, because I deserve better and he couldn’t ever give me what I needed in a relationship. We talked about being an empath and narc and how we had a toxic love.
It was amazing. It was so much better then I could have ever thought – and while I don’t recommend this to anyone…. I’m so happy I saw him today
Empath 007,
Did you ever do the NDC on him? MMRB?
Xx
I didn’t. But at the end of our relationship he told me he was a narc (or he thought he had some of those quailties) at dinner he even joked when we were talking about people I said to him “but you need people around you” and he got this coy look on his face, put up his arms making a fish rod motion and said “yes, but I take from them” and we had a chuckle about it haha. At one point I spoke about how he got something out of my emotional reactions – to which he replied “well you did too”.
He’s a narc. Just an intelligent one. I can tell he has a new primary source (although he never publicly acknowledges his sources). When he told me
He wouldn’t open things back up… I know he means it. I watched him do the same to his ex before me. Now I know he’s a nomad.
With that said – his eyes drank from
Me the whole time I saw him. You know… the narc eyes. Irresisrable and unmistakable.
He didn’t really want to give me closure (even though that’s what I got) he wanted to get rid of me. So he could move forward with his new source.
There’s no question he’s a narc. But I am
Glad I saw him.
Empath007,
I’m glad you got your closure. Job done. Now block him across all platforms. No need to interact with him further. Get him fired off!
Xx
You know it’s weird… I feel absolutely no anger towards him anymore. I loved him. And I still do. He’s on my social media. I’ve tried reaching out to him twice since our dinner (since I do want to see him again) but he’s been Silent. The silence doesn’t hurt like it used too… because I mean, he was honest he didn’t want to see me romantically and he told me that aleardy.
I feel like I’m accepting our breakup all over again. But this time… I’m not angry… I’m not researching… I’m just grieving. Grieving what I think was the only love like that i’ll Ever have (sounds insane I know)
I’m wanting to block him again but having a hard time.
All of these feelings. I wish I was different. Attachment really is the seat of misery.
Empath 007,
I just picked this message up tonight. Isabelle and I left you messages on the ‘Searching’ thread more recently.
How are you doing?
I read this message and felt so very sad for you because I know how you felt when you wrote this. It just aches doesn’t it?
It’s ET, you’re getting knocked completely flat by it. I know No Contact is really hard, cutting ties, blocking, not contacting him, not checking social media, not sharing your pain and upset with those closest to you, all of it, it’s damned hard, but it’s the only way you’ll feel better Empath 007. There is no other route, if there was, believe me, I’d have found it and taken it, the ache was debilitating for me too.
Your ET is causing the pain, more than the original narc, and more than the workplace narc. You can control you’re ET, you have all the tools from HG and the support here to do it.
There’s no need to wish you were different. You’re a lovely warm hearted empath, that’s why you were caught in the first place. Nothing to do with you, everything to do with them.
We give of ourselves freely but we ARE NOT taken from. These men were takers, they are no loss to you. Give yourself the chance to see that for yourself by taking control and going No Contact. Do it. It needs to be done.
Xx
This is so spot on, and I almost feel like the luckiest girl in the world to be on the inside now.
For all the years of wondering how others could happily go visit their family… or so it seemed.
They appeared to look forward to a family get togethers, vacations. Hearing others speak of this was like a Hallmark movie in my daydreams. Always looking from the outside in.
Reading blog post after blog post about how “you can always rely on family’ or “family always has your back” etc… I knew it didn’t make sense.
I remember one day thinking…I never thought my life would turn out like this…”I don’t trust my sibling, I don’t trust my mom, and I’m glad my bastard father is dead.”
I felt like an alien. I never experienced the Hallmark movie image people seemed to discuss. I remember my father even one time saying “you and brother will become close as you get older.”
I remember innately knowing this would never happen.
And it didn’t.
I had no idea I was literally covered in narcs. No wonder I would hear people say things like “most people are good and want to do good” and I would think…huh..what kind of koolaid are you drinking?? No, most people are not innately good people to just trust. I need to keep them in check. Now I know why there was this difference.
Almost everything society says is an illusion.
People just don’t talk about this shit and admit it. So many people have fucked up families.
From my experience, I can attest to HG’s assessment of 1 out of 6 being narcs…it’s spot on. I trust real life experience.
My list of past narcs keeps getting longer. It’s in absolute amazement. Astonishment mixed with a bit of sadness, etc.
I am beginning to feel so much freedom. The curtain is being pulled back.
I hardly have words about how my life is going to change, with this new lens of glasses. I have not visited my narc family in over a decade.
I stopped listening to society’s bad advice a long time ago. I will admit, it is now freeing to finally understand why this person, and that person, etc. etc. caused so many problems.
I am almost feel like I am being mirrored because this is fitting so perfectly.. LOL! HG…can this be true? It’s like this feeling is perfect. The freedom and curtain being pulled back.
I have not finished the” America You are Being Conned”…but it is excellent so far. I will be finishing it. I am spread so thin is all.
I feel like it’s when you discover your government has been lying to you about the BS poisons they are putting in your food supply, and you just blindly listen to the big corps. And you don’t question it.
The answers are coming so fast. I feel like my entire life is being decoded and I couldn’t be more excited.
I now get to live the remainder of my life “in the know” and I haven’t even gotten half way through the studies yet. I
f this is the biggest con ever and a psychopath is going to gain a bunch of empath followers…then lead us on.
Because the only thing I am gaining is knowledge and positivity now.
I see so many interactions in business, etc. from this narc perspective now.
Thank you for sharing.
People aren’t ready yet. But when they are, it’s going to be bigger than you ever imagined. .
.
HG can a narcissistic person be a codependent. Or is that only reserve for empath’s.
No, it is a school of empath.
HG, in your interview with Doug you said that Hillary Clinton is codependent on Bill, and they both are narcissists. So although she is not a codependent (cos not an empath), a narcissist still can have this codependent dynamic with their IPPS who is a narcissist, right?
I think I saw this dynamic, where one narc was the poor troubled victim and the other was their stable adored saviour.
So I wonder what would you say in the narcissists collide series about two mid-rangers.
Yes, codependent in the dynamic, not in the sense of a Codependent Empath.
Thank you for double reply HG. 🙂 Sorry, it was a newbie mistake on my part to post the same thing twice.
HG can you please expound on this because I had a bit of confusion with that also I see narcissist or narcissistic people who are very codependent on the narcissist partner and they are absolutely not empaths.. Thank you… There’s so much to expound on You definitely have a lifetime of work ahead of you.
HG, in your interview with Doug you said that Hillary Clinton is codependent on Bill, and they both are narcissists. So although she is not a codependent (cos not an empath), a narcissist still can have this codependent dynamic with their IPPS who is a narcissist, right?
I think I saw this dynamic, where one narc was the poor troubled victim and the other was their stable adored saviour.
So I wonder what would you say in the narcissists collide series about two mid-rangers.
Yes, codependent in the dynamic, not in the sense of a Codependent Empath.
Excellent excellent excellent article. There are many relationship books that will tell women how to win a battle with a narcissist but they will never ever tell you you will never win the war and even if you do win a battle what did you win prolonged misery with someone who is incapable of loving you. Very dangerous true and a waste of time and energy. But most importantly keeping you in the addiction. If I can win the narcissist love then I’m valuable I’ve proven my worth and I’ve won That battle that I could not win with that prominent narcissist in my childhood. Never going to happen… And that’s okay f*** them. Get out stay out run.