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7 thoughts on “Black Flag”
Hope you all had a pleasant summer (if you live in part of the world that just had summer)!
This summer I’ve been thinking about something that Ns do when you are ensnared and that is interacting too much with a third party when they are supposed be with you.
If I’m hanging out with friend(s) or family and someone calls me, after saying hello and checking how they’re doing, I’ll say I’m with friend(s)/family and ask if it’s okay if I call back tomorrow? Ns, when you are ensnared, don’t do this. They chat on!
Likewise if I run into someone I know in town. I’ll keep it short becuase I’m with “Anna” at the moment.. whilst Ns keeps talking and leave you feeling like the third wheel..
In my experience Ns don’t do this during the seductionperiod but when you are ensnared and it doesn’t matter if you are IPPS, IPSS or NISS!🏴
Correct me if I’m wrong and feel welcome to add your experience.
Hi Jasmin, I think the experience you are talking about is called “triangulation” … it usually occurs when we are in devaluation and is one method of keeping us uncertain in the midst of the relationship causing us anxiety (because we don’t understand the narcissistic dynamic and that we are being devalued), causing us to question ourselves (because once again we don’t understand the narcissistic dynamic and think the issue with us, not the narcissist), causing us to try harder to gain/retain the narcissist’s attention (because as empaths we feel the need to resolve any issue between us – i.e. heal/fix).
Narcs don’t do it in the seduction period because they are trying to ensnare us and our ‘fuel’ is premium for them at that time. Once the premium grade fuel wears off on them (loses it’s flavour, isn’t sufficient, isn’t provided on a frequent enough basis) the narcissist begins to find other ways to gain fuel which generally tends toward the negative (to a narcissist fuel whether negative or positive is good as it is still stoking them) and devaluation begins.
One of their great methods of control, was a victim myself multiple times, completely relieved of the confusion around that after I found my way here.
You can also be triangulated with objects, jobs/careers, etc., as well as other people. Anything the narcissist can use to put between you and them as a means of creating anxiety and giving them greater control. Believe me when I say they will then accuse you of insecurity if you question them around it when we all know it is the narcissist who is insecure and that is the reason for their overwhelming need for control.
You are absolutely right! It is a form of triangulation (in some instances I interpret it as provocation too).
Triangulation can take shape in so many different ways and I wanted to give an real life example of how it can look like.
Do you have similar experiences?
During seduction and whilst pained white they use benign triangulation.
Thank you for joining and nice to see you.😃
Triangulation, in my mind, is always designed to be a provocation. It provokes feelings of insecurity, anxiety, confusion, upset, anger, mistrust, etc. etc. etc.
The upshot is that in provoking you the narcissist gains a reaction (usually negative as is par for the course when you are in devaluation) and therefore gains fuel and even more importantly for them, control. With you in this state of uncertainty, the narcissist can ‘toy’ with you and therefore assert their dominance or superiority over you. It’s a game to them – whether aware or unaware – and one they play very well.
Most of my experiences regarding triangulation involved other women and them being shown favour over me in one respect or another, e.g. congratulating another woman on a promotion, but neglecting to congratulate me when we both gained our promotions at the same time. I can’t even remember what lame excuse he came up with at the time for doing that, but then I didn’t know he was a narcissist and I was in devaluation. I just knew I was very hurt and very confused by it. I also wanted badly to kick his ass for humiliating me in that way. He knew what he was doing. How I know that is he somehow still managed to avoid offering his congratulations even after I took him to task over it. For some unknown (and thoroughly co-dependent) reason I accepted his excuse with some cajoling on his part which ended with him telling me how I was his “rock” or some such garbage!
I still find it hard to fathom the person I was before I got here and gained my understanding around narcissism. Was I really such a wimp? Did I really fall for all that crap and the ridiculous manoeuvres of the narcissist? Sadly, I did, but never again. He thoroughly shamed me and I accepted to be shamed by him. It’s a lesson well learned.
I’d like to hear your thoughts on benign triangulation. For some reason I don’t feel any triangulation is benign. It’s a weapon in their arsenal. Can there be such a thing as a benign triangulation? Maybe HG has mentioned such a thing, though if he did, I missed it.
Thanks for your response, Jasmin.
Hi again LET,
I find triangulation a bit difficult. There are so many instances where the N triangulated me and I didn’t even realise it.
I recall asking HG if it is triangulation when the N watches a stand-up comics show and laughs. He said yes, but I would not have realised.
The triangulation with other women was easy for me to see that it was just that (triangulation). When I’m in a relationship with an N I become extremely jealous. It’s a manipulation that works very well with me and therefore it became a favorite. The button that always delivers!
But yes, I got triangulated with the house, the car, the children, the cats, televisionprograms and food ect. Food a lot actually! (Annother weak point of mine)
– Mmm, what a delicious Mango! Mmm aah, sweet and juicy, just what a Mango should taste like! Mmm aah…
Have HG said benign triangulation? I can’t recall it either..
What he have said is that manipulation can be both benign (pleasant) and malign (unpleasant). What I meant with benign triangulation is when you are being compared favorably.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts and feelings. I agree, no more abusers!✋️
I’ve only seen your reply comment now, so apologies for any delay in my response.
I’m laughing at the Mango triangulation and it never ceases to amaze me what they will use to triangulate you with. Very early on here I mentioned how I had been triangulated with “only children” … the ex-narc was an only child and occasionally used that as a a means of triangulating me. When he brought it up the first time, I sensed something was out of sync. The reality is it gave him leverage. That’s what I’m talking about. Triangulation will be a means of gaining leverage, and by claiming his status as an only child he was putting himself in a unique basket which left me on the outer. It’s not the fact he was an only child, it’s the way it was brought into the conversation. It was very subtle and maybe someone less sensitive would miss it, but part of my curse as an empath is not to miss anything.
Thank you for explaining further about manipulations and the possibility of them being benign or malign. I see your point, and it will happen occasionally that the narcissist puts that feather in our cap which is a moment we can enjoy as it means respite (or could be during the initial seduction period). I guess the main thing is to recognise it is happening and not to be fooled, whether it’s pleasant or unpleasant. Either way the narcissist has us in their grasp and the occasional moments of respite will never make up for the damage being done.
Awesome, awesome book. So valuable in coming to terms with the idea of abuse, being abused, having been abused, what it means, what it was, what it looks like. Very important read for anyone who is questioning what has happened, or is happening, to them.