To Have and To Hold






We marry. Sometimes we keep dangling the carrot of matrimony for the purposes of future-faking and keeping a primary source interested and working hard to keep our favour. Other times it happens quickly in that whirlwind of the narcissistic seduction for the purposes of ensuring that you are bound to us as tightly and quickly as possible so we have the comfort and satisfaction that you, as our wonderful new primary source, are firmly embedded and attached to us.

A swift engagement with the wedding following hard on the heels. It is customary move of our kind to enter into a marriage. We give the appearance of being utterly devoted to you, smitten and with our love bombing and repeated protestations of love and desire it is little wonder that the victim readily says “yes” and has the engagement ring slipped on her finger and the planning for the wedding itself happens minutes later. Marriage is important to the narcissist. Not the actual institution, although we will make a great show of emphasising just how important it is, what it means to us and how we could not wait to get married. All good material for ensnaring the victim and maintaining the façade.

When that day comes, what goes through the mind of the narcissist when he or she is stood before the altar, in a registry office or atop a cliff overlooking the sea in a civil ceremony? What is the narcissist thinking about as the priest or registrar conducts the ceremony? What thoughts percolate through the mind of our kind with the guests all stood behind us, staring in rapt attention and admiration, smiles plastered across faces and the occasional tear trickling from the eye of the emotional onlooker?

What are we considering as the hymns are sung, the readings are read and the service proceeds? I shall endeavour to tell you, from the perspective of a male narcissist by reference to a traditional ceremony. Bride and groom are stood side by side, excited smiles exchanged and eventually the vows are reached.

“I HG Tudor, take you Victoria Tim, to be my lawfully wedded wife.”

I chose her. I chose her above all of the others. She looks amazing but then so she should, for me. I knew she would look so beautiful and all these people gathered here will be looking at her and thinking how beautiful she looks and how lucky I am to have married her. There was no luck involved of course. I planned this and it made perfect sense to marry so she is bound to me now. I don’t mind them all looking because although they might be looking at her, I chose her, so their admiration of her, is actually admiration of me. I am looking forward to walking down the aisle with her.

So many faces and all looking at us. I can barely keep still as it is now, knowing that so many hundred pairs of eyes are fixed on my back, watching us. This is brilliant. I should get married every week. The whole day is about us, but I know it is all down to me. I chose her. I drew her to me. I am the one that created this wonderful union and I get to spend the entire day basking in the glorious attention and well-wishes of the congregation and wedding guests.

Even more of them will turn up for the evening reception. So many guests, but that is what comes of being so popular. I wonder if the Predecessor Primary Source, what was her name again, Wendy, that’s it, I wonder if she turned up. She accepted the invitation. Not that Victoria knows she is a former girlfriend but the pained look and frozen smile that I am expecting from Wendy will give me an extra special boost.

“to have to hold”

Oh she is mine alright and I want to make her happy because then she will make me happy. I do think I have got it right this time. Everything seems so right about her. She lies everything that I like. She is so helpful and caring, I picked very carefully after the disappointment of the others, like Wendy and so on. I should have invited some of the others actually. That would have been very entertaining to see their faces when I walked down the aisle with my beautiful wife. My wife. Mine. She belongs to me alright and this time it is going to work.

I am sure I have selected the right one. I have her and I will have her time and time again. I know how to delight her and she responds magnificently to my touch. Well, to be honest, they all usually do, but this one, more so than the others. Another reason I chose her. Yes, she is mine to have and I am always going to hold on to her. I treat her well. I really do. That’s because I adore her. There are so many reasons why I do. She is clever, she is witty, she is beautiful, she looks after me, she understands what I need. I know that to be the case. This is why I chose her and this is why I married her. You don’t let someone this good wriggle free, so I will indeed have her and hold her Mr Priest, I will hold on to her very tightly indeed.

“from this day forward, for better, for worse”

There will be plenty of better because that is what she and I are about. We fit together so perfectly. My soulmate. I deserve her and she is delighted to have me as her new husband, I know because she has talked of little else since the engagement. It was quick but so what, you snooze, you lose as the saying goes. Yes, lots of better, we are so fortunate to have what we have, more than most people, but then we are not the ordinary people.

I know I have elevated her, but she has accepted that with good grace and enthusiasm, just as I thought she would. She will do as she is told. I was pleased she didn’t go in for that modern rubbish of excluding her vow to honour and obey. If she had resisted that, well, there would have been a problem. I know some couples both say it to one another but I am traditionalist. I wear the trousers. Of course I will honour her, she knows that, but I do not need to say it, besides, I decide what I do, not some vows. Don’t get me wrong, I intend to stick to them, but if something happens, well, I have to do what is right for me.

I am hoping she keeps giving me what I need and that day does not come, but if she does mess up, I don’t think she will, but let’s just say for the sake of discussion and argument that she does mess up, well I will ensure I have other options. I mean, she will be a grade A idiot if she does that, after all, she is getting a great deal with me, but you can’t be a fool and rule it out. Not after what I have seen with the other ones. I do think she is different so fingers-crossed we will not have to go down that route. So, yes I intend to honour her. Obey? You can fuck that sky high! I do what I want. I am the doer, not the done too. Obey? Seriously? That one is for her and believe me she had better fucking comply with it or there will serious repercussions, but hey, I am getting ahead of myself here, I know she will, that is why I chose her.

It is important that she does obey me because that way we stand the best chance of happiness and success. If she obeys me, which I know she will, I will keep her happy and not have to do what I have done with the others. Still, let’s not think about that on a day such as this. I don’t have to obey. She will. That is all that matters.

“for richer,”

No problems there El Vicaro, I have wedge and so has she. That box is well and truly ticked. How much longer will this go on for? I think I will have a cheeky peek over my shoulder. That bridesmaid is rather tasty; Natasha isn’t it? Victoria’s friend from university. She is totally wanting some of me. There we are again, that little grin and the bite of the bottom lip. Oh yes. Well too bad Natasha, this isn’t your gig but if it does go tits up, not that it will, I will look you up, of that you can be assured.

“for poorer”

Not going to happen so no concerns about that. Easy to agree with that one man of the cloth. Come on, when are we getting finished, I want to show off the vintage champagne that I bought. That will impress her old man. He loves that kind of thing. There he is, proud as punch that his girl has been chosen by HG here. Let’s give him a wink. He liked that, winked back. You wouldn’t be winking at me like that if you know what I am going to be doing to your daughter tonight. Hell yeah. Must have laughed then, I am getting a sideways glance from the soon-to-be Mrs HG, give her the smile. There we go, melting straight away. Easy.

“in sickness and in health

Bollocks to that matey boy, who do you think I am? Some kind of fucking nursemaid? She gets ill she deals with it and anyway she can go and see the quacks, that’s why I pay private health insurance. Don’t expect me to be arsing around looking after her though, I have other things to get on with. Of course, it is a different proposition for me. I am in rude health, strong as an ox, fine mind and so on. I don’t get ill. Being ill is for the saps and the weaklings, but if I am hurt, I daresay with me it will be something pretty serious if it going to slow me down, then I know she will run around after me. After all, who wouldn’t. I am worth it.

“until death do us part.”

Absolutely right daddio. That’s the only way she is getting away from me, when either her or me shuffles off this mortal coil. This is for life.

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35 thoughts on “To Have and To Hold

  1. Anna says:

    There is this saying

    “Marriage is a sentence, not a word”

    Couldn’t resist the pun!

  2. Elodie says:

    Hi Lickthemtomorrow,

    There was no reply button under your post, so replying here.

    I unconsciously noticed from the start elements in his behaviour. My mum reminded me after the first date I told her there was something frightening but I wasn’t able to formulate it. I was under his spell thinking this fear was about engaging that young, I was 23yo. As you wrote the consequence of emotional thinking.
    He was a real prince charming : 6ft3, dark hair, deep green eyes, handsome, gentle, appearing to be emotional as well as strong, determined and protective. He was facking perfectly emotions in his micro and macro facial expressions. As the devaluation period started he became more and more emotionless, by phases. To the point of not being the same person. Doing awful things to hurt me emotionally, exposing me to fear in a very vicious way. Triangulating a lot with belongings, friends, ex-colleagues, romantic past, animals… Until the worst moment. Nothing of a “tale” but a living nightmare. If I had known involving with a narcissist, psychopath or sociopath would have caused distancing myself from a highly rewarding position which has never presented again, loosing my friends, my self-confidence and becoming for a while extra introverted and secretive to the point of partially changing my body language baseline. Leading to self-exclusion from my environment and irremediably changing the path I had worked hard for… No, It wasn’t with consent.

    I also lost a big chunk of money, paying for his project’s training expenses. Whereas he was from a more than wealthy family. His mum was a reknown gynecologist, appearing very kind and level headed, always finding new ideas for the wedding. She tried to make me talk about the changes she was noticing but I couldn’t. I didn’t want her to feel bad or any guilt, knowing she wasn’t at the origin of it. Afterward I thought otherwise, she was partially responsible for it, not protecting enough his child. Shutting down her eyes when the worse was happening for keeping her prestigious social situation. His Dad was an ultra. An elite one, a very respected and famous heart surgeon, owning a clinic which he sold to an American pension fund before retiring (not caring about the consequences for the workers there then). At times, triangulating me for attacking his son with sentence as I was too intelligent for his son, when he wasn’t close but at ears reach. Physically abusive Dad while childhood, always with the pretext of his son not being at the level of excellence he should have been. I tried once to talk to him about the origins of his son’s tantrums and violence towards things (as punching a wall, not feeling the pain). He replied not feeling concerned and left the room. He bragged once about being able to see people as pieces of meat to be able to focus while working. Which was clearly a false statement, trying to hide he was permanently seeing people as pieces of meat.

    Load of things I can’t communicate on. I’ve never reported him. My parents don’t know about the violences. Just that he was difficult and I tried to help to my expenses. I left France for a nice job in Milan. Letting him know about moving in Italy (not exactly where) was to protect my parents from his potential visits. A few months after I met someone wonderful there, Dr in psychology consultant in Transactional Analysis. I wasn’t able to tell him too ashamed, about what I lived before, why I wasn’t able to express verbally my emotions or feeling them until some time. He deserved better so I kept on alone. It brought me resilience and an acute sense for spotting narcissism, the liar loops in body language of the ultras and the viciousness in the linguistic construct. HG’s channels had helped me a lot too, confirming and explaining. Which I’m very grateful for.

    Can I ask why you chose Joan of Arc’s statue in profile picture?

    1. lickemtomorrow says:

      Elodie, it’s amazing how we formulate a way to ignore the red flags, even from the beginning.You must have mentioned something to your mother early on which she remembered and was able to piece together as your relationship unraveled. You were very fortunate to have her support and backing for what you were going through.

      HG has only recently mentioned the element of ‘distancing’ in a recent video about Harry and his wife, and the manner in which the narcissist virtually becomes a stranger over time as the find your ‘fuel’ less satisfying or sufficient, ultimately seeking out (or having already found) their next prey/victim. It’s disconcerting when you are still so thoroughly engaged, and of course they can gain more fuel again as you try to cajole them and bring them back into your arms.

      I’m sorry you lost so much in your life due to your entanglement. I can relate to the experience of shrinking into yourself after experiencing such a ‘dunking’ in the narcissist’s abyss. I still am not motivated in many ways to reach out further than in circumstances or situations where others understand my predicament and my response to that. For me, it’s a ‘wounded’ position, where like an animal there is a need to lick your wounds in order to help clean and repair them. There are wounds and there is shock. Trauma sums it up, I think.

      You are right, we do not consent to trauma. We can only consent with full knowledge of what we are dealing with, and we don’t get that option with a narcissist.

      Your explanation around his family highlights perfectly how the narcissist is created, in circumstances where their wounding leads to them embracing a defence mechanism (narcissism) which further leads to them wounding others. His father is likely a narcissist – and HG has mentioned before that a high percentage of those in his father’s position are likely to be narcissists as that gives them the ability to do the work they do (far from squeamish). It sounds like your ex had a perfect mix of circumstances to become what he is. The mother not intervening or also being focused on her career may have helped to prevent any other outcome.

      It makes sense that you wanted to keep him from your own parent’s door with the explanation you had moved to Italy. He may have been a Greater with an element of malice attached. Once again, I’m sorry you had to go through that, and you also had to end another special relationship because of your experience. It can be hard to dip our toes back into the water again, and you’re obviously a compassionate person not wanting to tie a man up in a relationship you felt you were not ready for at the time. HG’s work helps us to recoved, and once we begin that journey it’s hard to know where it will end. Maybe you will still meet that someone special who deserves you.

      I admire Joan of Arc, she represents a warrior-like spirit which I embrace, the fact she is a woman – even very young for her experience – encourages me to see the strength in women. I am also a Catholic, so she is a Saint who is representative of my faith and my journey. The photo was taken in New Orleans, Louisiana, USA. Of course, I should have expected to see a statue of the Maid of Orleans in such a place, and not far from the St. Louis Cathedral, or Basilica of St. Louis King of France, in the French Quarter there. In my surprise, I had to take a photo of this incredible and historical figure who I admire so much.

      Thank you for sharing more of your experience, Elodie. You have been through an extremely difficult time and I hope you continue to recover and eventually thrive.

      1. Elodie says:

        Yes you’re right we don’t listen to our gut feelings. We are taught to rationalise our emotions from a very early age and with words. Except the mammalian part of the brain sees it all in other behaviours. The memory of the cells passes down genetics of innate behaviours which we are able to unconsciously read in others. The mammalian brain doesn’t speak. It doesn’t communicate with words to the neocortex to explain what he has seen but in a limbic system inner code! Hence learning body language and its advanced theories is paramount to comprehend what our mammalian brain is able to analyse from a recipient’s non verbal signals.
        Telling my mum there was something frightening me that I wasn’t able to understand/formulate in words was exactly a gut feeling = The mammalian brain screaming in sign language to a puzzled neocortex!

        My mum still to this day doesn’t know about the violences and she will never, unnecessary pain. But she had seen at times his cold anger in the last period. She noticed every visit once a month my behaviour changing – from bubbly to not communicating too much on personal elements by fear I would say something telling the situation. She would be shocked I let that happened, not leaving right away. Maybe she would be angry at me or emotionally wounded I didn’t feel I could tell her.
        It helps to write. It makes resurfacing emotional memories non dealt with. When out of this, at first you think your deep sadness is caused by the loss of the love, the loss of the person he was at first. But in fact it’s mainly the trauma. And the difficulty to accept having been a victim. The shame of it. Thank you for your messages it forced me to do a needed emotional wash! 😊
        I still consider him as a victim despite all endured. Even if just seeing his face and body for a few seconds from afar freezed my body. A victim to keep at bay!
        No matter what he is or what he was born with (2nd born, potentially having more of the mum’s genetic), I’m certain an affectionate and caring upbringing would have changed it all.
        But his sisters were never verbally or physically abused by the dad. They were exactly like the Dad, as emotionless in the face (faking macro emotions), versatile and staring.
        The oldest (1st born are said (or unborn) to have a predominant genetic from the father, for the father to primitively recognise his paternity and stay, very useful when we were cavemen) His oldest sister chose a partner exactly like her (international CEO in investments). The 3rd born, she chose a kind empath totally devoted to her whimsical temper, exclusively awful to him and her employees (dentists 😬).
        I cared, having an unconditional love and compassion for him. I defended and protected him, facing his dad when he was trying to humiliate him. Even his friends from childhood were afraid to talk to his dad, they all alerted me before meeting the dad. Which reminds me of one of his friend (the one who said the father was a hyper communicant but a snake), a genuine person, kind and compassionate. The one I crossed path with before leaving for Italy, who told me my ex was already re-engaged with someone and he has been eliminated from his environment. Eliminating people as evidences of his past behaviours as this friend came at home once uninvited in a “moment” and threatened him if ever displaying again violent behaviours. Shaking, crazy how we’re able to scratch memories. The brain does remember sadly. Emotional wash not over!
        HG is right stating it can’t be changed in the adulthood, at that level.
        I wonder how his dad didn’t on purpose triangulated me verbally attacking his son, to trigger the anger of his son then toward me. A way for his dad to punish me from the moments I diplomatically confronted him, often involving his escape.

        Joan of Arc is a historical model of resilience. She made the ultimate sacrifice to remain faithful to her fight. As the Christ. I share with you a catholic education but only at school. I profiled the Christ’s life. He wanted people to free themselves from malignant powers, from oppressive dogmas, from narcissism. They tried to kill his freedom of speech and his benevolence. His sacrifice amplified his message. I don’t abide by dogma but I respect and love the Christ and his word.

        I’ll be honoured if you decide to share your experiences and your analyses/knowledges of the narcissist, with me. To the extend you allow yourself to. A shared notion. It would be useful for many.
        As you did help for me, formulating the wounds and letting them here. Licking the wounds now not tomorrow. That one was easy I know 😉

        1. lickemtomorrow says:

          Hi Elodie, your first paragraph made me think of primal instincts, exactly as you describe, and our senses – or the mammalian brain – warning us. Our capacity for reasoned and intellectual thought often prevents us from accepting these primal messages. We talk ourselves out of recognising the signals our innate senses are sending us. HG has so many articles which lend themselves to greater understanding around how we become ensnared and unwittingly lay ourselves on the altar they set out for us.

          I think we hide a lot from others during the period we are with the narcissist, especially the dark or negative experiences. It is like an unspoken contract. If we had to admit what was happening, the dream would be shattered, and telling other might cause them to crush our dreams. Of course, we don’t want to trouble them, or cause them concern, especially loving parents. There are so many reasons to hide what we don’t want others to see, and also what we don’t want to see ourselves. We keep hoping we can return to the beginning and seek out the Golden Period again. It makes me sad to think of how we become a shell of our former selves in the presence of the narcissist. In my last encounter, I was also at the peak of many experiences and hoped for dreams which the narcissist tapped into and then mercilessly crushed. They despise seeing you happy, enjoying life, entertaining others, having friends, looking forward to the future. They shrink your world until they eventually shrink you into a useless object they so carelessly cast away. Thankfully, we eventually come to the realisation that they are the useless object who can neither love nor be loved. I agree, it’s not loss we suffer as much as trauma. You put it into words beautifully.

          It’s possible a different and loving environment could keep the end result of narcissism at bay, though HG explains the genetic predisposition to narcissism can be triggered a number of different ways, and sometimes even a loving environment or intervention cannot halt its progress. It sounds like your ex’s siblings may be narcs as well, even though they were not treated harshly by their father. Perhaps they were the ‘golden children’ who were spoiled instead. I did read something interesting today (oddly enough) where the author commented on a UK cross-sectional study that revealed surgeons (in the context of the medical community) have the highest level of narcissism and the highest scores for Machiavellianism (part of the so called Dark Triad), while Neurologists scored highest on Psychopathy. Every manner of profession came under the microscope with ideas of how to potentially negate the influence of the narcissist where their desire for power overrides all else.

          I smiled at your reference to the baby looking like the father at birth. One of my daughter’s recently gave birth and the first thing I thought was how much the little one looked like their father. I also read this recently and was surprised – at least in this instance – to find it was true 🙂

          We all come here to take a good emotional ‘bath’, Elodie, as we wash away the stains of the narcissist and the impact they have had on us. I’m really glad you’ve been able to do some of your emotional washing here to help process your experience. It can take a while – I’ve been here for nearly three years now. I can’t believe how that time has flown, but I stay close to keep the narcissist far away.

          Thank you for sharing your thoughts on Joan of Arc and what a wonderful way to describe her – a historical model of resilience. Exactly!

          I also appreciate your kind words, and have shared much of my experience here already. It ebbs and flows as I peel away the layers. Some days it seems I am never done with the narcissists in my life, and unfortunately more seem to keep being added on, through familial relationships at the moment. I’ll be venting into the future here and I hope you will feel able to do the same. Freedom is our aim, from the narcissist and in order to love again <3

  3. Shawn says:

    Jesus, Mary and Joseph. I was about to let the narc come over and get some pictures for some stuff he still has here that he wants to sell. You just scared me, it’s like you were at our wedding. So thanks for your articles. I read them when I’m feeling stupid coming on.

    1. KitKat says:

      Shawn, have you accessed any of his audible books or Youtube lectures? Listening to them every day during commute time helped me keep stupid at bay during those crucial first months.

      1. Shawn says:

        No I’ve not accessed any of that. But it sounds like something I need to look in to. I haven’t seen him in 7 months. I keep blocking numbers and not answering Messenger.

        1. KitKat says:

          Ohmygoodness, you have to! Go now! It’ll give you so much clarity and insight. I imagine you are confused by their behavior, and have a lot of unanswered questions. HG talks about anything and everything you want to know, guaranteed. There are some hard pills to swallow, but you will gain a deeper understanding of not only them, but yourself as well. Most of all it will help you heal, and learn how to avoid future entanglement with narcissists. I’m literally excited for you! There’s nothing like the feeling of first discovering HG’s YouTube channel.

        2. KitKat says:

          As far as where to begin, I suggest browsing through and clicking on whichever titles catch your interest. Look at the playlists; that’s where the information is neatly organized.

          1. Shawn says:

            Thanks! I’m going to get started now!

  4. Elodie says:

    HG you’ve married the Victorian era! When women once married, were removed from any rights on everything they could have inherited from or any wealth they could have generated. You seem to apply forbearance as well in your life or is it just a facade?
    I’ve married the Victorian literature a long time ago. I can read it in any of your written choices, catching it in your verbal endeavours.

    1. KitKat says:

      Hi Elodie, off topic but I just wanted to say how much I like your name. It’s so pretty! I don’t believe I’ve heard it before.

      1. Elodie says:

        Hello KitKat, Thank you for your kind comment. It’s an old French name. What is yours?

        1. KitKat says:

          It’s just beautiful. I looked it up, it means ‘foreign riches’ as I’m sure you know. My name is Kathryn Celeste, which means ‘pure heaven’. It’s fitting because I love all things celestial. Speaking of such, I do hope HG is able to take advantage of his telescope to catch a glimpse of the green comet that is currently passing through. It’s breathtaking.

          1. KitKat says:

            The comet is on it’s way out, but you may be able to catch the tail end. (Haha)

          2. Elodie says:

            You have a beautiful name. Very poetic. I didn’t know about the comet. Mainly heard about the Earth’s core slowing down its rotation. Plus the ice masses melting having caused the Earth’s axis to change in the course of the past 10 years as you might have noticed as looking at the stars, passion potentially predestined by your name! Are you parents involved in astronomy?

  5. KitKat says:

    Please oh please tell us a fun detail about the ex-Mrs. HG! Where or how did you propose? What did the ring look like? Where was the wedding or honeymoon? Exactly what DID you do you his daughter that night??? (Ok, maybe not that one). What did the MatriNarc think of her? What did SHE think of the MatriNarc??? Eek, the Mother-in-law from hell. C’mon pretty please HG, just a little something, curious KitKats want to know….

    1. A Victor says:

      Hi Kitkat, I wonder if there’s an NDA… He never speaks of it much. But I’m with you, very curious about this.

      1. KitKat says:

        Good thinking A Victor, there probably is. Can you imagine an Ultra proposal though? How elaborate it was?

        1. Elodie says:

          I can tell you what was experienced with a 23yo ultra: He organised a week end in Biarritz. After a nice diner in one of the finest restaurant there, we walked until the Rocher de la Vierge where a guy was waiting for us playing violine. The ultra opened up and served the champagne while resuming on the business project elaborated while the diner, adding he wanted me to be part of it and as his wife. He built up the emotions. The context was utmostly romantic yet the material part was overly present. It was a business proposal with the decorum of love. Soon after I discovered this project needed to be in couple. 8 months later, while the training (6 months) the devaluation phase started. I was passionately in love with him. Yet noticing the changes. But I wouldn’t be freed from him if not helping carrying the training until its end validating the official entrance in the “firm”, knowing then he would be able to resume alone. Things in the “relation” went worse. The training was almost over. He was having tantrums of jealousy, being violent toward things. Once toward me. Right after I had a car accident (not responsible) which has saved my life. I used the hospitalisation to stay away from him. The “firm” validated the last 15 days of training I couldn’t attend to. I’ve never stayed alone with him for the last times meeting and solving the situation. He stalked. I moved away, change country. For protection I’ve deleted any social media profiles (been totally off the grid since) and let him know via intermediate that I was living in Italy. Last Christmas at my parents, so 15 years later and absolute no contact, a strong intuition forced me to look at the front side of the house, where you can see the street, he was there looking precisely at the closed window I was standing by, 80 feet of distance. He might have seen my silhouette. The time I went for my Dad, the ultra was gone. For the story after the separation he married someone else less than a year later. He didn’t get to resume with the business project as I was the one the firm recruited. They let him be a director though but not having his own company under their umbrella. Thus he badmouthed me with awful lies as much as he could. He is divorced and has now a highly public job so I know he will never dare to go further than driving 2 hours for a stalk. But my parents have understood they must think about moving away. Ultra don’t have real feelings. But they want to keep possessing their appliances even past ones. Nothing attractive in it. Potentially fatal harm.

          1. KitKat says:

            Wow…way over the top proposal. Incredibly glad you were able to escape him and the situation. Very dangerous. Thank you for sharing with me. Stay safe

          2. Hi Elodie, that’s quite an elaborate tale and very intense in terms of emotion. The shock of devaluation is one that impacts us all when it occurs, especially when the golden period has been so overwhelming in your case. Many a girl’s dream to be treated that way, and we set ourselves up for the fall at times with our romantic thinking – HG highlights this in Victim or Volunteer?

            I’m curious to know why you let him know via an intermediary that you had moved to Italy? Especially after deleting all your social media. It’s almost like a “come and get me”, inviting him to seek you out there. Maybe you thought by telling him that you had moved countries he would realise you were lost to him via distance, and therefore wouldn’t continue to pursue you (i.e. leave you alone).

            It’s frightening to imagine even 15yrs on that he continues to stalk you, to the point of your parent’s having to consider moving from their home.

            Narcissist’s are a nightmare, but I think you will find HG considers himself the only Ultra and any other narcissists lesser than him.

            Hopefully your situation will resolve itself, perhaps with HG’s help.

        2. A Victor says:

          I know, I’m sure it was spectacular.

    2. KitKat says:

      I knew begging wouldn’t work but hey, can’t fault a girl for trying. The problem is I have no quid with which to pro quo.

      1. A Victor says:

        It was a great try too.

      2. Elodie says:

        HG would jeopardise his persona if telling detailed info of the sort. Don’t forget there’s a witch fraudulently using donations* to pay troll companies spotting informations like these.We don’t want our HG to be exposed to those terrorists. * Millions $ of A****W. used for a “better online world”… Yet same as A Victor I understand the need to have a better understanding of HG’s life experiences

        1. KitKat says:

          Wait, what’s happening? Someone has put out a bounty for information leading to the unmasking of the Ultra? Actually, that isn’t surprising. I worry about it sometimes. Not only is HG’s anonymity essential for him to continue to be as candid and brutally honest as he has been, but it also keeps the focus on his work. Sure, we can get distracted thinking about who is behind the curtain, but I think it would be worse if there were a tangible person to fixate on. On top of the fact that he doesn’t freaking WANT to shed his pseudonym. That’s reason enough to respect an author’s wishes.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Indeed KitKat, most people respect the need for my anonymity, even those who are curious about who I am and would seek to find out would keep it to themselves. The fact is, I am a ghost and finding me is impossible.

          2. Asp Emp says:

            I agree with you, KitKat.

          3. Anna says:

            Oh wow, someone has really done that? Put a bounty out?

            I can imagine HG being like Johnathon Randall aka Jack Randall from the series “Outlander” during the day. At nighttime he puts on his leather and becomes like “Pinhead” the cenobite from the film “Hellraiser”
            The fantasy I have of him anyway! I can imagine him saying the famous Pinhead quote
            “I’ll tear your soul apart”!

            But yes, I agree his anonymity is integral to him helping others and passing on important knowledge about narcissist abuse.

            Not just that, it is fun to have a fantasy too. Reality can be very dull!

          4. NarcAngel says:

            “Not just that, it is fun to have a fantasy too. Reality can be very dull!”

            The intoxicating scent of an Empath to a Narc’s nose.

          5. Anna says:

            @NarcAngel ❤️❤️

            “Not just that, it is fun to have a fantasy too. Reality can be very dull!”

            “The intoxicating scent of an Empath to a Narc’s nose.”

            Hilarious. I love it

            I never said I was an empath 😜😜
            Maybe I am, maybe I’m not…
            To be honest I don’t give an owl’s hoot hehe
            I love your Avatar by the way
            Catwoman…in PVC😍

            But yes. HG does have an intoxicating scent that draws in Empaths and many other curious little cats. Good job Cat’s have 9 lives!

          6. NarcAngel says:

            I was not referring to you personally (empath or otherwise). It was merely an observation on the empath/narc dynamic prompted by your statement.

          7. Anna says:


            Thank you for the clarification.
            That is one problem with forums or sites. Communication can sometimes be misunderstood or misinterpreted. The tone of voice, somone looking at you, their facial expressions. All lost in text.
            Human communication is very complex indeed.

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