The Narcissist : Mixed Messages Part One

16 thoughts on “The Narcissist : Mixed Messages Part One

  1. Dani says:

    Mr. Tudor–

    I like this new mini-series. It’s excellent. Very helpful and informative.

    1. Do you find that some empaths are higher in the trait of suspiciousness than others?
    I don’t mean in a going out and attacking way, but more slower to trust, they’re more guarded. And quicker to say they made a mistake in trusting a specific person. They’re not slower to offer help or be there to assist when needed, but they’re far slower in offering personal information.
    2. Is yes to 1, is that seen more in a particular school/cadre?

    Thank you so much for your time. Much appreciated.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      1. Yes.
      2. No.

      1. Dani says:

        Thank you, sir.

        1. Regarding 1, do you feel more powerful when you get a more suspicious empath to trust you?
        2. Do you feel that your control is threatened more during the time that a suspicious empath isn’t opening up to you?

        Thank you so much for your time. Much appreciated.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          1. No, it is expected that they will come to heel. Them doing so provides validation.
          2. The failure to do so is a threat to control, but one that I know will be nullified in time.

          1. Dani says:

            Thank you, sir.

            1. Do any particular actions those you are controlling take make you feel more powerful than others? Can you feel more or less powerful?
            2. What is the longest amount of time you’ve spent getting a suspicious empath to trust you, an IPPS?
            3. Have you ever disengaged before gaining their trust?
            4. Do you prefer a bit of challenge?

            Thank you so much for your time! Much appreciated.

          2. HG Tudor says:

            1. Yes. Yes.
            2. I do not recall.
            4. I like it when they fight.

          3. KitKat says:

            HG’s School Of Total Obedience. Each graduate receives a shiny new collar! The tuition: Your soul, bwahahahaha

          4. A Victor says:

            Haha! Very good.

          5. Dani says:

            Thank you, sir. Much appreciated.

  2. Truthseeker6157 says:

    Passive communication. That’s my mum right there. I do actually know what she wants, I just ignore it. She then has two options, push it and risk me cutting the visit short or switch to a more benign approach in which case I’ll stay and be pleasant.

    Alternatively, online narc would half say something and I’d turn myself inside out trying to figure out the hidden meaning. I remember relaying one of online narc’s conundrums to another online friend and asking him what did he think the narc meant when he said such and such. My friend said, “I don’t know what he means, you don’t know what he means and I think that’s the point of it. I’ll tell you what I think. I think the guy should man up and say what he means.”

    So he was right with the first bit, wrong with the second, because in the narc’s world he was actually being clear enough. It’s interesting that the mind games aren’t always mind games with unaware narcs. It just appears that way. The end result remains the same: confusion, frustration, upset and a game we never win, but it was interesting to listen to a more in depth explanation about narcs and communication. In some ways, those who are fresh out of ensnarement struggling with high ET might listen to this and give the narc a bit of compassion here. I’m afraid I’m all out of that particular brand of compassion.

    There’s a shift in style with these two videos, and ‘The Narcissist Reading You” videos. The explanation feels more in line with the way an empath would describe an experience, plus they felt a touch more psychology based just without the convoluted jargon. I enjoyed them very much, they added a depth of understanding to what I had learned previously. I like this style, HG’s awareness is on full display, which feels heartwarming yet disconcerting in equal measure.

    1. TS, I get the feeling the element of miscommunication is more purposeful a lot of the time. It’s a perfect way to establish control, by not communicating clearly, leaving room for second guessing, creating confusion where there doesn’t need to be any, establishing a superior position because THEY know what they meant even if you don’t, and causing you to have to come to heel by asking questions to gain further information. I accept the narcissist has their own perspective based on their narcissism, and this can at times be the basis for miscommunication, but I also think it is a feature of their narcissism that they seek to gaslight in this manner also. Keeping us on tenterhooks while they bask in the knowledge of what they meant and keeping us in the dark. I get the sense there are layers to this miscommunication that take a level of discernment to understand.

      I’m very pleased with the advice your friend gave you, and he sounds like a straight up guy who knows how communication between people does work in order to be effective while removing any game playing element.

      I also enjoyed “The Narcissist: Reading You” as another excellent insight by HG.

      1. Truthseeker6157 says:

        Hi LET,

        I must admit, there are instances with the online narc where I would find it very difficult to believe that what he was doing was not intentional in terms of manipulation. Possibly in the moment in response to a threat to control, not planned as such, but intentional.

        I do think I need to consider the fact that that particular ensnarement was online, so in many ways words were all there were. Even the best communicators misinterpret online. So this video did ring bells for me. On occasion I do believe he expected me to know what he meant when he would say something that to me seemed unclear.

        I remember when I was looking for houses in the UK when still in the US. I was looking at various locations, I fancied Devon to begin with, I was all over the place.
        Later, when I was definitely making the move back he mentioned the area where he lived and said “ You wouldn’t be interested in my area though. I suggested you move here at the start and you weren’t interested then either.”

        He was referring to a conversation months prior where I had been thinking about renting first to try the area before buying. He sent lots of houses through, some in his area, others in areas I had mentioned I was thinking about.

        Reading between the lines, I was supposed to leap on the houses in his area, move there. Because I didn’t leap, this signalled lack of interest, it would threaten control. He never openly suggested moving close to him, not clearly. Plus, I’d met him twice at that point. I’d be out of my tiny mind to move to an area I didn’t know, where I had no friends, no family, just him.

        So I think this probably reflects what HG was getting at in the video. There are other similar examples I could give. Similarly I am becoming more aware of just how often I threaten control. I am sarcastic, I tease, particularly if I’m relaxed and like someone, so in terms of control threatening there were plenty of times I questioned, teased or said ‘Sorry, don’t believe you.’ All sorts. That would necessitate an assertion of control, so I think all told, a lot of those online interactions would be explainable as mixed messages as opposed to intentional manipulation.

        It’s also likely I was a secondary and not primary source though I would still question that given the frequency and times of extended communication. I can’t see how an IPPS could possibly have been present. Given the interactions were mostly online though it’s more likely I was in a secondary source position in the fuel matrix, meaning I’d have occasional corrective devaluations ( in line with control threatening) but otherwise some of the confusion was likely mixed messages.

        Difficult to say how much was devaluation, how much was miscommunication, how much was reactive or intentional but this video definitely rang bells for me.

        Me too, I’m loving the new material 🙂


        1. TS 🙂

          Yes, I get your point about him expecting you to get it even when you didn’t. He knew what he meant, even if you didn’t. Definitely a miscommunication, albeit one based in his narcissistic worldview.

          That is a great reflection on the househunting scenario, and him perceiving a lack of interest because you did not jump straight on board. I can tell you now, and I’m sure you know, if you had moved to his area the devaluation would have likely started right away, in a moment of “now I’ve got you, I don’t need to bother with you anymore.” You would be like a puppet on a string with that level of isolation and definitely would have been out of your mind to consider it. So glad you were not so completely ensnared, or perhaps another type of empath, who would have likely said “how high” in response to his “jump!”

          I can also see how your general means of communication (as described) could be read as a threat to control by the narc ultimately ending up in some of those mixed messages, as opposed to deliberate manipulations.

          You’ve touched on a few of the options (e.g. devaluation, miscommunication, reactive or intentional) and it’s interesting to consider how all these can play a part in the narcissist’s communication. Both videos rang bells with me 🙂

          The new work is very enlightening, I agree xox

          1. Truthseeker6157 says:

            It’s strange when I look back. I certainly didn’t come out of that unscathed but the outcome could have been worse and for the reasons you point out. Had he been a different school of narc, had he activated a different empathic or narcissistic trait, had events at that time been different when I began communication with him, all of those combinations would have brought about a different outcome. Had I not arrived here, how much longer would I have been ensnared? Would he have pushed too hard and caused me to turn on him anyway? Would I still be waiting for the ‘ping’ of a message? I can’t honestly say.

            I think watching my friend come out of ensnarement opened my eyes further. Different traits cause different sticking points. He was haunted / is haunted by different factors within the dynamic. His need to heal and fix is far stronger than mine, my contagion is stronger than his. Different triggers, different hauntings, both painful.

            I’m more angry at his narc than I ever was with my own. His situation seemed more unfair than mine, perhaps I view him as being more vulnerable / nicer than me, I’m not sure. I always kind of assume that ultimately, I’ll land on my feet, I’ll always be ok. I wasn’t so certain about my friend. That opened my eyes to how twisted the game really is. Watching someone else battling ET and saddled with all those questions somehow drove it home to me how utterly twisted narc relationships are, far more than when I was impacted myself.

            We all have an Achilles heel, it’s just different for different empaths. Where there is an addiction there is a weak spot, and it’s only a matter of time before the narc hits on it. Or, it WAS only a matter of time.


          2. TS, I think it’s often harder for empaths to see someone going through something than when they go through it themselves. Could be Contagion, could be Saviour, but it’s impactful regardless. Your friend is lucky to have you as a presence and sounding board.

            I caught your “WAS only a matter of time” … how nice to be able to talk in the past tense 🙂


          3. Truthseeker6157 says:


            I think it’s the lack of control that makes it harder to witness someone else going through ensnarement or escape. They have to stick to the program, they have to fight down the ET and remain locked down in no contact. We can support, listen, explain, forward the relevant material, all of that, but they have to actually fight their way out themselves. We can’t do it for them, much as we would like to. In the meantime, we see the confusion, feel their distress, but are helpless to make all that hurt disappear. It seems such a slow and painful process. We are forced to watch them battle when often we are better equipped for that very same battle. It’s heartbreaking really. I’d love to run into his narc. He said the same haha! He’d love to run into mine. I think our approaches in those situations might be slightly different though!


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