A Lack of Support
We don’t provide support. We are too concerned with ourselves and our daily hunt for the fuel that we need to be concerned about you. We are engrossed in our own world and have no interest in yours. The only time we pay attention to you is when you are providing us with fuel or you stop providing us with fuel. Everything we do is focussed around us. This is because we have to obtain fuel, as without we will disintegrate. The hunger for this fuel is never ending and accordingly all of our energy must be applied towards obtaining it. This leaves us with nothing left over for anyone else.
Being a caregiver yourself, you would like to think that the person who you share your life with, or who you work closely with, would be amenable to providing you with support. That may mean giving you emotional support when you are experiencing a difficult time or taking the strain allowing you to lessen the burden on yourself. You give and you are happy to do so, therefore why should they not do so as well? That is the outlook of someone normal operating by the norms and rules of your world. Those do not apply to us. We cannot provide you with support since we have nothing available to do so.
Added to that we do not know how to provide emotional support. Yes we can see how chores can be done and the like. We also have observed the ways that you provide emotional support to other people and we know the phrases that are used, the expressions that are formed on people’s faces and the gestures that are made. We have seen all that and we could trot all that out. In fact we have done in the past. We did this when we were seducing you. When we wanted you to divulge about your weaknesses and vulnerabilities this will have invariably saddened you and upset you. It may even have caused an episode where you need emotional support. We were happy to go through the motions then because we were at the stage of investing in your in order to get our fuel. We were content to make the right noises, give you a hug and make the panacea that is the cup of tea. All of this was learned from others. We did not feel anything for you. We could not put ourselves in your shoes (heaven forbid that would ever happen) and we could not empathise with what you were experiencing and nor can we ever do that. Yet again, we conned you into thinking that we are a caring and selfless person. We demonstrated such an approach when we were first together and that attracted you to us. This raised expectations that you could rely on us and turn to us when the need arose. It is all false.
Furthermore, when you need support and expect it from us, you are showing to us how you are weak. We despise weakness. You will find that our kind is rarely found near children, the infirm and ill and the elderly. This is because they are all weak and want support regularly. We do not want to be reminded of that fact. We cannot be bothered with you cluttering up our route to fuel. An exhibition of weakness infuriates us. A normal person would see someone in a position of weakness and deign to help and assist. We have seen how this is a natural reaction in normal people. It will not happen with us.
If you are fortunate, we will absent ourselves from the situation in an instant. We will generate some urgent reason; find a pressing engagement we had forgotten about in order to ensure we can get away from you and your ailment, woe or injury. You probably will never see us move as quick when it comes to getting away from somebody who needs help. If we are unable to exit the situation then we may just stand and look at you. You could be reaching out to us, eyes filled with tears of pain, asking for help and we will just give you a blank stare. We know we ought to be helping you, convention and observation has told us this, but we cannot do so. We are unable to leave but we are also unable to help you. This requires compassion and we do not have any. It requires us to us our energies to help you out and we are forbidden from doing so.
Our ultimate reaction where you need support from us is to go on the offensive. The uncomfortable feeling that you have generated inside of us makes us feel less powerful and smacks of inferiority. We know of only one way to banish such a sensation. We need to reassert our power and that means we must lash out at you. It becomes necessary to subject you to further insults and denigrating comments, at a time when you are feeling hurt and vulnerable.
“What are you crying for? I have had worse happen to me.”
“I am sick and tired of you being pathetic. Deal with it.”
“I bet (insert name of triangulated individual) would not make such a song and dance about it like you do.”
“It’s only a dog, you can get another one. Seriously, what a display over a dumb animal.”
“You are hysterical, you need to get help.”
“Stop crying or I will give you something to cry about.”
“That’s right; make it about you on my special day.”
We will lash out at you with these words in order to make you feel worse and ourselves feel better because that is all we care about. We fooled you into thinking that we care about you. That is a fallacy. Do not expect us to support you.
Demonstrating our legendary hypocrisy we will expect you to always be there for us. When we have a need you must attend to it straight away, even if you are experiencing difficulties yourself. When we have a scratch we expect you to make it better even though you might be bleeding to death before us. As with so much of our behaviour we do not regard the way we act towards you as meaning you should behave the same way towards us. If you chopped us in half you would most likely find this stencilled through us like lettering on a stick of rock
“Do as I say, not do as I do.”
95 thoughts on “A Lack of Support”
Vent Your Spleen! (Please see the Rules in Formal Info)
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Apparently……… if one does not have a WP Site (ie a blog of their own) they cannot access WP Support via Livechat, or email directly and have one option to utilise – a public forum. It is not something I feel comfortable about and certainly not sending screenshots of what I ‘see’ from my screen. HG cannot see what his blog subscribers (front end users) ‘see’ unless they have their own WP blog (back end users). Bugger.
“I suspect that if a narc, mine is either a lesser or lower mid-range. The yelling and screaming are familiar.”
I cannot imagine my dad screaming or yelling. I can’t imagine life sucking because of my dad. Behaviour like this is not normal dad-dom. It’s narcissism. Non narcissist dads are not arseholes.
“There’s a reason no one offline sees me as an empath”
I think you’re cheekily and sneakily trying to subvert or de-legitimise our online perspective of you here, CP.
But I am assuming you’ve not interviewed every person offline to get their assessment? And this is just a guess which just happens to totally match your assessment of yourself?
“It’s hard when I’m waiting on someone to answer a question. I have the lock but not the key.”
HG has processed so many of those bloody empath detectors he’d be able to look sideways at the thing and know exactly, categorically what you were/are. You have the lock. (It’s yourself.) You have the key. (It’s what he’s already told you.) You now need to put those two things together.
“I’ve always been unhappy at my core, a mix of sadness, fear, and shame”
The step into narcissism takes all these shitty feelings and pushes them down, down, down, so they can no longer be felt and can no longer cause pain. Had you made that leap you would’ve sent those feelings into oblivion as well and they wouldn’t be troubling you. But they do because you didn’t.
You may be an unfinished narcissist, but that is not a narcissist. And it’s too late to become one now.
“That and HG took off his veneer for me”
What was under it?
“Maybe real empaths ain’t sh*t sometimes“
I fo shizzle don’t know what this means but no doubt it’s correct.
“HG helps so many people like you and Asp Amp. I’m glad HG’s helped you understand your life.”
They listen to what he tells them and accept it, because they recognise he can see them more clearly than they can see themselves.
Don’t I know it… Where to start, haha.
But luckily, there’s also the knight in shining armour rescuing side to narc lovers.
This week, I made the mistake of asking my mother about a medical treatment I had decades ago because I needed to know something.
Of course she doesn’t remember anything about it.
But it was one out of two times back then, I remember my narc father supporting me by getting me to a doctor. While my narc mother being no help at all, like, I could have died in front of her and she wouldn’t have noticed anything wrong that required her help.
After the procedure I had to be at my parents to nurse me…. being nursed by my mother was like torture. Making food I literally couldn’t eat, but also ruining my fav woolen jumper… But I really remember my helpless feeling of hunger back then.
So, now, she doesn’t remember anything about any of it, and never had paid attention to the effects of the medical treatment on my body.
Like someone else here said, – my parents were never of support to me, but while my father was mostly absent, my mother blamed me in any situation in addition to my suffering, eg horrible teachers, loss of job when employer went bankrupt, or having physical issues with a climate that changes temperature by 25 degrees C. in a day.
She doesn’t share a cent of the inheritance she stole from me, no matter what.
But it all started with blaming me for falling asleep as a premature baby when she wanted to feed me (I mean, at least she did keep me alive back then….), later for not liking the horrible food she cooked, and for not speaking perfectly as a 3 year old when she always left me to my own devices. I even asked her about how I was supported back then and got a blank stare, like it’s an alien thought to spend time with your child. Thank Goddess for Kindergarten.
So, this attitude of hers stayed throughout my life, but she complained I didn’t talk to her enough, etc.
Like, she shamed me in front of others when I did come to her for help as a teenager, then afterwards complained I didn’t trust her.
Narc boyfriends were just like described. They were sucking my energy while things went well, and were nowhere to be found when things didn’t go well.
With the exception of being at my rescue when it suited them, and next moment the opposite.
But many no support in any way, at all.
ava_101, as if I was reading about my mother.
She also doesn’t remember almost anything I ask, or each version of events is different.
If only it was about serious things, but some lies are surprising and involve total nonsense.
For example, her partner’s first Christmas Eve dish is carp fish soup or borscht with dumplings. In our family home, we always started the supper with mushroom soup with boletus, brown birch bolete mushrooms and champignon.
For many years, each of us has been assigned the same tasks when cooking Christmas Eve dishes, e.g. my sister is responsible for various types of vegan dishes and baking vegan cakes. I am responsible for vegetable salads, cabbage dishes, cold fish dishes and baking cakes. My mother is responsible for dumplings, hot fish dishes, makiełki, dried fruit compote and mushroom soup.
The last Christmas Eve supper began only with… carp fish soup. When I expressed my disappointment, that there was no tureen of mushroom soup, which we have been eating only on Christmas Eve for several dozen years, I heard the answer: “We always ate fish soup.”
We were speechless and shocked 🙂 Total nonsense, but it shows, what an impact the need to please her partner has on my mother’s brain.
As for the shaming – she still does it. In January this year, I was dealing with banking matters with my mother. Her financial status is much higher than mine and my sister’s. We went to several banks so that I could become a co-owner of her accounts. In every bank she had to say something degrading about me to or in front of the person serving us, e.g.
– bank no. 1 – “I authorize my daughter, otherwise she will not have money for my funeral.”
– bank no. 2 – “My daughter has a car so old, that it will soon fall apart. After my death, she will finally buy a good car with this money.”
– bank no. 3 – a loud question to me: “Do you have money? Will it last you until the end of the month? Can I lend you something?”
How caring 🙂
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ava_101, you sound so sad. I guess we have to accept it. We have no other choice.
Yes, Narcissists are there for us in good times. In bad times you are alone. And for every rescue, you have to pay – with gratitude, presence, pretending, refraining from telling the truth.
To Rebecca & Candied Pansy, https://narcsite.com/2024/01/23/a-lack-of-support-23/comment-page-1/#comment-452295
I would suggest that it is perfectly normal for empaths to have varying degrees of ET, and, especially in their early days on their journey of ‘re-discovery’ (re-learning about themselves) and their own unique situations in their lives. Some take longer than others because of the different measurements (depth & length of time in their life) in the impacts of their addiction to narcissism and the amount they have to re-process within their thoughts (LT). There may be occasions where the ET spikes up and it depends if the individual can instruct their LT to take over the ET before it gets out of control. Again, this varies in empaths across the spectrum. It also can be impacted in regard to any (if any) ongoing unresolved situations in their life. Some situations cannot be in the control of the empath because it is outside their ‘LOCE’ ie political unrest – it is just a matter of how the individual ‘reacts’ to it.
In my personal view, both Rebecca & Candied Pansy are still in early days of their journeys here (KTN). Don’t take it to heart as I can see that you both have awareness of how you react to what may have been said. I think that you bring yourselves back on track quite quickly.
Having said that, when Doug died, I was upset and I recognised that it opened the wound that I had carried from my father’s death (basically near his anniversary date too). Yet it was very different this time as the pain was soft and lasted a few days. I realised my ET was brought to the fore yet (I think) I managed it well considering.
It is a journey we all are on 🙂
Thank you HG, for your time in moderating 🙂
Thank you AspEmp for your help, understanding and suppport. I still remember how helpful you were, when I first came here and how you related to both my pain and anger, it’s very much appreciated, how much you helped me feel better and more human, thank you. Xx
Thank you Rebecca xx
Hello Asp Amp,
I take it higher ET is common in the early days of re-discovery, as you said. I’m sure you’re right that some take longer than others to manage ET. It’s a good point you mentioned, that empaths can be in a LOCE like political unrest, or a relationship where you lived together for decades. Whether someone is an empath, and the individual makeup of any empath, makes a huge difference in how one reacts.
I can’t speak for Rebecca, but you’re right about me being early (not yet a year since I started to comment, only 2 years I saw the videos). Thank you for saying we bring ourselves back on track quickly after reacting to what someone says. Rebecca’s been here longer and controls ET better than I do.
I’m sorry that Doug’s death wasn’t just upsetting but opened the wound from your father’s death. That is tough. I admire your awareness of the wound-triggering and how well you managed it.
Journeys indeed. Thank you for sharing. I appreciate it. 🙂
Hello Candied Pansy,
Thank you for your reply. I now can recognise when my ET is coming to the fore (not necessarily always though) but self-reflection really does help as I can use the experience as a form of adaption (ie how I approach that customer service person again if it is really not avoidable ie no-one else available) – people may not realise that there are many occasions where they may come across someone working in public services who may be a narcissist (or may not be) but their behaviours may not be appropriate towards the service user. Consider the frequency it occurs and whether that behaviour is also directed at other people, it may vary as per “selection process” (as narcissists ‘operate’ by instinct, or, sometimes, by previous experience of the same individual, sometimes not = similar to selective memory). Some narcissists can learn but their narcissism chooses not to ‘adapt’ their behaviours.
I have to say that recently I recognised that my ET was skewed to the point where my critical thinking was impacted because of the ET getting in the way even though I was not necessarily emotional about it – just my thinking was ‘foggy’ (shock leading to mind-fk) and my ‘fear’ (anxiety) was also “preventing” me from acting on what I needed to do to take back my power because of the LOCE that I was experiencing. So, I reached out (some service provider) and made some way forward out of the LOCE that I found myself in. Its not yet completely “resolved” yet I was able to use the whole experience to measure my own ET / LT being impacted. This was not due to any specific human ensnarements, it was a system ‘block’. It can be frustrating when it is not understood, or, resolved in one day and therefore the ET “continues”. So one may have to either adapt their approach, or, tolerate it until it can be resolved (or not).
Thank you for your words (Doug / my father). I appreciate that 🙂
Hi Asp Emp/Amp (which do you prefer?)
Knowing when your ET comes to the fore is a huge step ahead for reigning it in. Being able and willing to self-reflect would help making instances of ET lessons for the future. It’s true that many workers are narcissists, or not showing their emotional empathy, and not just customers. If most narcs are unaware, i.e. not accepting and embracing what they are, they won’t adapt more than needed to get by. Their level of cognitive functioning will play a part in that too, how much they adapt and in what ways.
It’s rough you had to fight ET, just when you need clear thinking the most. It’s good to note that ET won’t always be noticeably emotional, but affect you in cognitive or physical ways such as brain fog, being stuck in a freeze response, etc. It’s good you reached out to that service provider to get some control over your LOCE, though I’m sorry it’s not 100% fixed yet. Even empaths need some control over their lives. I think HG has said so in a video. I imagine it’s hard when it’s a system “block” and not someone to blame, and you have to keep fighting ET until the problem’s resolved. I often feel dread about things, and it’s frequent (multiple times a day, hard to sleep) until they’re resolved, whether it’s something I must do or I have to wait for someone/something else.
Thank you for your calm support, now and when we talked last year about the empath detector, autism, and other things. I hope your LOCE becomes just a CE soon. 🙂
Candied Pansy, thank you. RE: your second paragraph, you do understand the position I found myself to be in (recently) and yesterday, I managed to “remove” the remainder of the system “block” and have taken back my power over that area. Thank you for for listening on this.
This ‘space’ that HG offers (KTN) has been extremely vital for people like us to have somewhere to talk our thoughts out loud where it helps to understanding ourselves better. I am glad that I was able to help you in some aspects. Thank you for acknowledging that 🙂
AspEmp and Candied Pansy,
I came across HG’s work in November of 2021, less than a month after being disengaged/ discarded by LMRS at work. I agree with AspEmp that I’m still in the beginning stages of my discovery about myself and the narcs in my life and their behaviors. Xx
Candied Pansy, Some days my ET is like a horse escaping a burning barn, just full running and I struggle with pulling it under control, but here’s the difference…I do manage to get a grip on myself now..it’s what HG meant, when he replied, ” get a grip” in his comment previously…I got it, I understood then.
Candied Pansy,
I’m no stronger than you, when it comes to controlling my emotions, I’m still learning and you show strength too. Xx
AspEmp,
Doug dying was a shock to me too and I felt sad for a while. He was a kind person and I spoke to him once during livechat, it was brief exchange, but I enjoyed the videos with him and HG. They were delighful, funny and educational, and he’ll be deeply missed.
I had the same reaction as you, I’m sorry you felt that same grief again for your dad as I did. Xx It brought my dad’s death to mind again too, been thinking of my dad a lot lately….I understand your pain and I’m relieved to hear that the pain was soft this time, for you. Xx Thank you for your reply and for sharing with us. Xx
Thank you for your reply 🙂 Good to read what you say here 🙂 xx
Thanks AspEmp, it feels good to be able to say it. Xx
Rebecca,
Yes you still have ET (horse on fire 100%) but) you’re better at “getting a grip” on it than me. All I can do is distract myself from it. Thank you for saying I show strength too. I feel weaker than ever, sometimes lashing out from fear, and the vent novels. Maybe it gets worse before it gets better. Thank you for your kind words.
Candied Pansy, “maybe it gets worse before it gets better” – that is how I found myself to be when I had been on KTN blog for a number of months (early days) as I was absorbing the realisation that I had a matrinarc (as well as work narcissists – my main reason for joining KTN !). It was a shock to recognise matrinarc being what she was (a dead one now though 🙂 ). I likened the learning that I obtained here similar to a bereavement process. You will become stronger in time and you will know when that occurs 🙂
Asp Amp, I’m sorry you went through feeling worse before it started to get better for you. I wonder why that happens to people. I just thought I’m dysfunctional and stuck on a certain issue, but if you also found it “got worse before it gets better”, then it’s a real problem. Does it get better after a year?
It would be a shock to find out a parent is a narcissist, if you don’t learn of it early, and you were here for work narcs instead. When I first found narcissist parent content, I was surprised there was a term for it, when there isn’t always physical abuse but other experiences. I didn’t think of narcissism. Not sure my dad’s a narc, but experiences seem to fit. I hope your mother’s death is healing for you. Interesting that the learning here is akin to bereavement. Maybe that’s why it feels worse for a while. Thank you for helping me again. 🙂 I wish I had something to give back.
Candied Pansy, I think it was all ‘related’ – my co-morbidity that I had to understand what each (aspergers; deafness; ACON; CPTSD; PTSD) can impact on the other, how, when etc. Yes, in my case, it got better after a year yet there could be external stressors that could have a different ‘angle’ on one’s life experiences and it may amount to similar reaction(s) – then again, it depends on how much one learns to manage it by repeatedly instructing the LT to ‘control’ the ET better. Yes, in my case, matrinarc’s death is closure now that I have processed my past (her treatment of me etc) as I had to deal with that first before I could process the trauma of my father’s death – if you can understand? That way of processing my past worked for me yet may work differently for someone else. I think you will know what ‘stage’ of the ‘bereavement’ process you are at (ie measurement of your own journey / learning) when you reach that stage.
Regarding your father. You can decide to go for a NDC to find out for sure and have the knowledge to deal with it moving forward? Just like your taking the EDC for yourself 🙂
You are giving back already 🙂 x
Asp Emp,
It makes sense that you’d have to sort out how your co-morbidities impact each other and you. Whether it gets better after a year or not would depend on external stressors, and I think our own personalities and issues. Also as you said, how much one teaches the LT to control the ET is a factor. I think LT is like a muscle. Did you need to process the abuse from your mother and her death, before processing your father’s death? Was it a need to deal with the abusive, less or not missed parent first? I’m sorry if that’s offensive or inaccurate. It’s good you have closure now. Was it more difficult to deal with your father’s death, as he was the loving one? I’ve read that people with two abusive parents deal with the more noticeably abusive parent’s death first or easily, then struggle with the “safer” parent. I think your scenario was different, if I remember correctly that your father was supportive. It’s good your way of processing your past worked for you. Thank you for saying I’ll know where I’m at when I get there (what stage of my grieving).
I’ve been waffling on a NDC re: my dad for a while and chickening out. I’m sure you’re right that it would help to know for sure, as you encouraged me to take the EDC!
Hi Candied Pansy,
So sorry I missed this reply sooner before now x. I’d suggest using – as an example – if you are learning a new mathematical formula ie fractions, your brain may get stuck at understanding one part so you cannot get past that part of the process, whereas someone else got it. The emotions may result in frustration, embarrassment etc so your brain effectively starts to train the emotions to avoid that situation. I’d suggest that over time it becomes an instinctive before a mental reaction. Especially if learned from a child. I’d suggest that LT is more a neurological pathway rather than a muscle. Some forms of ET may be physical ie pain and that could also be invoked by memories that are (were) too painful to think about.
Yes, matrinarc’s abuse had to be processed first. I came to KTN because of narcissist at work, 3 weeks later, I start to recognise behaviours of matrinarc. Shock. Her death did not bother me much at all, only for a period of time, anger because I never got to have the last word that would have been very different and she never said ‘sorry’.
My father’s passing was extremely painful ‘burden’ to carry for many years as no-one really sat me down to talk through it, it was as if talking about my father was ‘taboo’. The trauma over his death was very deep. The trauma of matrinarc’s abuse not as painful to process (emotionally / mentally). Yes, father was the supportive parent. Her abuse magnified after he died.
I understand about your delaying the NDC. It’s normal, not everyone necessarily does it straight away (same with EDC). It’s the fear of knowing and possibly the avoiding of hurt, which is understandable because a parent is involved. You can start by doing a section at a time, you may find that you may continue with it once you have started the NDC. Either way, it is delaying the inevitable, whatever the result, you can then process your ET ‘path’. You are doing good. xx
Candied Pansy,
You’re welcome xx I hope you show yourself some patience, during this rough time for you. I know it’s hard being nice to yourself, I struggle with it, but the best thing you can do is keep learning here. It helped me with a lot of confusion and upset about my childhood, relationships and why things happened…the answers helped so much for me. Xx
I’m glad you found HG’s work, the help you’ll get here is better than anywhere else…it’s helping me too and that’s after all the counseling that had failed me , before finding HG. Xx
Rebecca,
It’s hard when I’m waiting on someone to answer a question. I have the lock but not the key. I fear it will prove my internal voice right. “You’ve never had real problems (true), you don’t deserve help”. Taylor Swift “I’m the problem, it’s me”. HG helps so many people like you and Asp Amp. I’m glad HG’s helped you understand your life.
Candied Pansy,
I’m right at the end of my second marriage to a second narc, trust me, I’m still getting help from HG. Xx I don’t have it all figured out either, so please don’t be hard on yourself. We are all still learning here and you’re worth the effort. Xx
Rebecca,
I can’t imagine how rough it is to be going through the end of a second marriage to a second narc. It’s not good you’re in that, but it’s good HG is helping you through it. At least you know who and what you’re dealing with now, which will help you figure it out faster and faster. I know you know this.
Thank you for all your support to me. I appreciate it. ♡
Dear Candied Pansy,
Thank you for understanding me, it means a lot. Xx I worry about being annoying as I go through this process of escape/ divorce. It feels like an end to my life. A new life ahead that feels looming and uncertain. I fear losing support, during the roughest time for me. I fear losing HG and all of you here. You all have come to mean so much to me, including HG. I’m walking on shakey ground and new avenyes for me. I’m just plum scared, very scared and I hate feeling all this fear in me. Why couldn’t I be a psychopath like my brother, and all this wouldn’t be an issue, like ripping off a band aid, done and move on…no, lucky me has fear unvolved in all my shit…why I envy your no fear thing, HG, I wish I could say, I don’t fear anything…instead I’m like a damn goat, flips over, with its legs up in the air like a ninny…paralyzed with fear…I’m annoyed by myself, so fearful…so annoying…I move forward, but struggle. Xx
IDK, I have a former friend from HS, who I finally stopped talking to over a year ago, who RELISHED when someone needed support. So she could rush in and present herself as the “strong” one, and take the opportunity to dish out “tough love” (ie emotional abuse). She is like slightly older, GenX version of Amber Heard. Most likely an upper lesser type A, “overwhelming Angel” type.
I used to think that the weird, harsh, “tough love” was something she picked up in her years AA or something, because I don’t remember her being that mean and that big of a bitch in high school and college. Although she did juggle several men (and women) at a time back then too, and has always been a serial cheater, so there were in fact signs of her narcissism back then, I just didn’t know what it was. I thought she was maybe histrionic or borderline, and maybe there is some of that (a Santa bag full of surprises), but some of the articles here cleared a lot up for me.
But anyways, she absolutely loves when people turn to her for “support”. It’s like throwing yourself into the web of a black widow spider, and it delights her like nothing else.
I think the lack of support is still true. Could it be your former friend scented victims to gather fuel from? If she was a narc, what she was offering was not support. I think then it was hunting behavior instead.
Also, I found HG’s YouTube videos on borderlines really illuminating. His analysis of that diagnosis was highly informative and reframed the entire concept for me.
Yes Allison, that’s what I meant. In her mind it’s “support”, but really, her behavior is predatory, in that she is sniffing out (perceived) weakness, and using that as a way to be in a “power over” position. A way to gather fuel is spot on.
Dad in his somatic lesser era, if I asked for support or dared to be openly unhappy, as doormats aren’t to feel when he’s not after fuel: “Who gives a f*ck?” “Tell someone who gives a sh*t” “what are you looking at? get the f*ck out of here” etc. Of course I had to submit to his lie-filled tirades because he’s the righteous one. He wouldn’t get mom rehab, as he didn’t want her thinking clear. He’d pretend it was too expensive and she was spending his money. She contacted narc siblings. One took her for a bit. Dad didn’t act supportive when we got her, just berated her and called her an idiot. Maybe HG lied to me and we’re narcs like Meghan Thomas + Doria. He wouldn’t see my mom when she had surgery. Left her in bed for days when it turns out she’d tried suicide. To be fair if the door was unlocked, I didn’t go in. F*cking wimp. I’d let her die to please a bully who didn’t care to see if his wife was dead in their bed. No wonder HG is disgusted w/me. I couldn’t control him so I hated her and myself instead, hoping at least one of us would die. No love among us, despite a million false “I love you”s. Even pets suffered, from smoke, overfeeding, etc. We unaware narcs are wild, so convinced we truly love. Markle videos get harder to hear.
In his midrange victim era, he’ll often act like he cares, which I find insulting. He’s in my “control”. Why does it feel gross? Is it a “too late” thing? Do Victim narcs deliberately ruin their health to trap a partner or kid into being their butler until death? He won’t say it so I go by what he won’t say, as w/ HG. I go by his refusal to get his eyes fixed in time to renew his license, that he won’t do his errands himself. I’m a “burden” yet he uses me as his butler. I’m his third and final wife, despite his insistence to the contrary.
Why do I keep chaining myself to these men when they keep showing me who they are? I know I can’t control them but I keep thinking I need their permission or approval to live my own life.
CP,
The best thing I ever did for myself was put my narc mother in a nursing home. I don’t care if people think I’m wrong. I couldn’t carry her any longer. Do you have siblings? Is there someone else who can take care of your father?
When I first got my empath detector done, I thought I fooled Mr. Tudor. I thought there was no way I’m an empath. You have to get away from your father. He’s causing your emotional thinking to skyrocket. You questioning your empath status is emotional thinking. Its a way to keep you ensnared to the narcissist. It feeds on your guilt. Its telling you that you must be the bad one so you have to stay and fix it. You’re not the bad one and you don’t need to stay and fix it.
Did you do the trait detector as well? It might be a good idea to get that done so you can see which of your traits are being corrupted. Understanding your makeup will help you so when you feel those traits start to get corrupted, you can knock them down.
It is a common feature that empathic individuals question that they are empaths and fear that they are narcissists.
Hi HG: I also think we feel remorse too when our narcissistic behaviors shine through. I never regret a kind act even if it falls flat on its face but I do regret acting in anger unless it was a just cause.
Thank you Leigh for the time you took for me. I’m glad you put your narc mother in a nursing home. Totally the right thing for your health. She’s cared for and is only your problem minimally. My dad can do more than he does but I’m not sure if he’d let himself rot if I left. Probably.
Why is constantly wondering if we’re narcs such a common feature? It’s a special hell. I haven’t done the trait detector. TBH I’m not mentally or financially ready for now.
Candied Pansy,
When you can and you’re ready, I encourage you to take the Trait Detector, it helped me understand more about myself. It helped connect some of the dots and gave me something to hold on to, on those more difficult days, when I feel less than human. I hope it’ll do the same for you! Xx
Rebecca,
I’m glad the trait detector helped you! 🙂 Maybe someday for me.
CP,
There’s one huge positive I see in all of this. You’re still young and you’re already armed with the knowledge of narcissism.
That’s a huge plus. In my 30s, I had no idea that narcissism was something I had to worry about. Meanwhile I was surrounded by them.
We question it because of our empathy. Sometimes we have dark thoughts or we do bad things and that makes us question our empathy. Just the very fact that we question it, proves we have it.
Feel better and vent away!
Leigh,
Yes it helps to be aware now, if I’m not a narc and dad is. I feel old but it would be worse if I didn’t know until 40+. It’d be hard to be in your 30s, surrounded by narcs, and unaware while making a life for yourself and your family… trying to fix who can’t be fixed or just making it “work”.
I can look at other empaths and see that despite their bad acts, they still care but not for myself. That and HG took off his veneer for me. Pre EDC, I’d listen to his “am I a narcissist” video to cope with worrying about my status. Now I’m back to that, minus fifty bucks (is HG mad at me because I waited for a sale? do only narcs wait for sales? why offer it and get mad if someone uses it?), but it doesn’t help like it did pre-EDC.
I don’t buy that mid rangers never consider being narcs. I bet some see it but justify it and use pity plays like “it’s not my fault, as GPD from at least one parent and my LOCE made me this way”.
Thank you for indulging my venting. Stuffing it for decades was needed, as non-physical abuse wasn’t “real”, but it took its own toll.
Hi CP,
I can’t speak for Mr. Tudor but I doubt he got upset that you bought the empath detector at half price. He wouldn’t have given the discount if it was going to upset him. Mr. Tudor is aware that some people have financial restraints and that’s why he gives opportunities for everyone to access his work. I, myself have taken advantage of many of his sales. My middle name is frugal, lol!
All the narcs I’ve known, and I’ve known a lot, have never truly contemplated being a narc. If they say it, it’s a manipulation like you stated. They would shoo the thought out of their head and blame their childhood or some other cause without ever correcting their behavior or taking responsibility for their actions.
Yes, they weaken the victim. Also in the way you write.
My mother was an energetic, successful, very high-earning businesswoman. As her current partner sucked on her, her imagined and real illnesses consumed her life, time and thoughts. Hospitals, doctors, clinics – non-stop for 20 years. He became her executioner, guard and nurse. He performs the most hideous procedures on my mother, which are “proof” of his devotion.
ONLY HE can give her energy. ONLY HE gives her the strength to live without fear. ONLY HE protects her from death.
—–
Until the opposite is true – and the roles are reversed (except for the role of the patient, which he never plays – weakness). Besides, this is my mother’s favorite role, and the Queen of Diseases will not give up the field to the horse.
—–
A little different than what you describe – but the same method – mental weakening, leading to physical exhaustion.
Hello Joa,
It is surprising or not surprising that your mother went from an independent, strong woman to a vine unable or unwilling to support itself. Parasite, not partner. How does it work on one who knows she can support herself? I haven’t much supported myself, disabled in the mind but not recognized by my state (likely autism level 2/3). Are narcs that powerful, even to smart women? Are we narcissist-addicts, as HG says? I’m weak most days, despite being young for it. I only run basic errands. I know what having a “executioner, guard, and nurse” is like. The narc is the many faced god, as in Game of Thrones. Judge, jury, executioner, press, savior, prison guard. What a perversion of reality it is, when our poison presents himself (or her) as medicine. I think of a film V for Vendetta. If I remember right, a character learns they could have left a prison by choice long before they chose to venture out. I wonder if that’s what empaths realize after HG’s work- they can go as soon as they choose. We have keys to our chains.
—
Less than a week ago, I noticed I wasn’t mentally or physically weighed down as usual. I wasn’t gravity’s slave. I enjoyed it, yet felt it die as I had lunch with dad. Back to lying in bed, knowing life is shortening by the day. I just started free somatic exercises and my body shakes. It’s worth a shot but I won’t heal for life until I cut out my patriarch. I don’t know if your mother wants help, or to be ill (addict to narcs?). Queen of Diseases makes me think this role she’s in is deeply dug.
—
Thank you for sharing. I think of a song “What Was I Made For”, Billie Eilish. I cry each time, inert without a narc man pulling my strings. I long to separate from man, guilt for the longing, imagined loneliness on top of real loneliness. HG has said the highly codependent are unfinished narcs. Maybe your mother and I are unfinished. I’m sorry if that’s offensive or inaccurate. I fear I was in denial of codependence on HG’s test. Is there a way for codependents to “finish”?
It’s understated how not-physical manipulation causes physical deterioration.
Candied Pansy, I wouldn’t say my mother is a “vine”. Rather, she adapted to the requirements of her “guardian”. She did not give up control. It’s double control.
I told my mother, how similar my first thought was to my sister’s first thought, when I and she (separately) heard about impending marriage our mother: “We’re afraid he’ll destroy you mentally.”
My mother’s response: “Don’t be afraid, he’s too weak. I’m the one, who could really finish him off.”
My mother as I remember her has been, gone for many, many years (sometimes only a shadow is visible).
—–
HG, has said many times, that intelligence does not protect against Narcissists. This is a completely different level of relationship, based on deep needs and instincts.
Pansy, you can’t always leave physically, but – as Leigh wrote – you can leave “inside”. At least this.
For me, the worst thought is: “Will he/she be able to handle it?”. This keeps me – at a distance – having to watch life’s progress. I want to know, that it’s ok. If something goes wrong, I can’t leave. For this reason, I wish all the Narcissists in my life the best, so that they don’t have to need me. Then I have relative peace. Even though I don’t have it at all…
You wrote it beautifully, Pansy. We have the keys to our chains. That’s true. I know this perfectly well. The sad thing is, that I haven’t used any of them. Not a single one, though they all buzz around my neck.
—–
Another beautiful thought. Yes, life is getting shorter day by day. I have been thinking about this and death since my early childhood (my father committed suicide). And I don’t do anything about it – because I am deeply convinced that nothing can be done about it. Effort in vain. A vain hope.
Yes, I also waste time in bed 🙂 I love my bed and my beautiful, fragrant sheets 🙂 There is nothing more important than a bed! 🙂 This is my base. This is my strength.
Don’t feel guilty (I tell myself that too). Whether you live calmly or intensively – the effect will be the same 🙂
I’m sorry that you have to live in the same “space” with your father. You must be tired…
“Queen of diseases” – yes, my mother is the Queen of every field, including this one. She does a great job in this role and is delighted with herself – as the sickest person in the whole world 🙂 The imaginary list of diseases is growing at an alarming rate. Doctors are good as long as they confirm them or at least don’t deny them. A conscious doctor is a bad doctor 🙂
—–
Yes, I understand you very well. I don’t cry for myself – I can’t do that. My tears can only be brought about by someone’s death or someone’s love. But I share a similar belief – I lack the “life force” that other people have for themselves. I am alive, but as if I were dead. I fly on wings, triumph or perish, only in the presence of Narcissists. I am condemned to them. I learned to jump between them, so as not to be completely absorbed by someone. I am like ping-pong between Narcissists, of which there are many in my life. Everyone a little, no one completely. This is the only method, I have managed to evolve and I have been operating this way – better or worse – for 20 years. I dream of being consumed, absorbed, but I know what that would mean for me. I would disappear. I can’t do this to my child. At least… not yet.
Yes, I consider my mother to be Codependent, just like me and my sister.
My sister – a volcano of energy, crazy potential for exuberance, joy and stubbornness – also began to disappear, entangled in a relationship for 25 years, and for several years subjected to increasingly stronger devaluation. It makes me so sad to see this. I’m slowly losing her too.
As for HG claim, that Codependents are “unfinished Narcissists”. I agree, that we are a bit lacking. But not as much as Narcissists!
I believe, that we were developing towards Narcissism, but we did not reach the bottom, we managed to see the black hole and escape. You have to be proud of it! Don’t “end it”, don’t become a Narcissist! Never! I’d rather to turn sour, like a cucumber, in my own bed! 😊
Yes, your mental state is reflected in your body. I always know, when and for what (exactly) reason I catch new chronic autoimmune diseases (which my mother envies me so much, ha ha ha).
Your message saddened me greatly, Candied Pansy. I’m sorry I didn’t reply right away. It made me very sad – probably because it’s too close for me. And then I got absorbed in the prose of life, although I still had your answer in my mind.
Hold on, Darling, as best as you can.
And now, shake off the “weakness”, push it away, throw it away, trample it and crush it – and move forward (even if we go in tip-tops)!
I’m trying to send the text again:
Candied Pansy, I wouldn’t say my mother is a “vine”. Rather, she adapted to the requirements of her “guardian”. She did not give up control. It’s double control.
I told my mother, how similar my first thought was to my sister’s first thought, when I and she (separately) heard about impending marriage our mother: “We’re afraid he’ll destroy you mentally.”
My mother’s response: “Don’t be afraid, he’s too weak. I’m the one, who could really finish him off.”
My mother as I remember her has been, gone for many, many years (sometimes only a shadow is visible).
—–
HG, has said many times, that intelligence does not protect against Narcissists. This is a completely different level of relationship, based on deep needs and instincts.
Pansy, you can’t always leave physically, but – as Leigh wrote – you can leave “inside”. At least this.
For me, the worst thought is: “Will he/she be able to handle it?”. This keeps me – at a distance – having to watch life’s progress. I want to know, that it’s ok. If something goes wrong, I can’t leave. For this reason, I wish all the Narcissists in my life the best, so that they don’t have to need me. Then I have relative peace. Even though I don’t have it at all…
You wrote it beautifully, Pansy. We have the keys to our chains. That’s true. I know this perfectly well. The sad thing is, that I haven’t used any of them. Not a single one, though they all buzz around my neck.
—–
Another beautiful thought. Yes, life is getting shorter day by day. I have been thinking about this and death since my early childhood (my father committed suicide). And I don’t do anything about it – because I am deeply convinced that nothing can be done about it. Effort in vain. A vain hope.
Yes, I also waste time in bed 🙂 I love my bed and my beautiful, fragrant sheets 🙂 There is nothing more important than a bed! 🙂 This is my base. This is my strength.
Don’t feel guilty (I tell myself that too). Whether you live calmly or intensively – the effect will be the same 🙂
I’m sorry that you have to live in the same “space” with your father. You must be tired…
“Queen of diseases” – yes, my mother is the Queen of every field, including this one. She does a great job in this role and is delighted with herself – as the sickest person in the whole world 🙂 The imaginary list of diseases is growing at an alarming rate. Doctors are good as long as they confirm them or at least don’t deny them. A conscious doctor is a bad doctor 🙂
—–
Yes, I understand you very well. I don’t cry for myself – I can’t do that. My tears can only be brought about by someone’s death or someone’s love. But I share a similar belief – I lack the “life force” that other people have for themselves. I am alive, but as if I were dead. I fly on wings, triumph or perish, only in the presence of Narcissists. I am condemned to them. I learned to jump between them, so as not to be completely absorbed by someone. I am like ping-pong between Narcissists, of which there are many in my life. Everyone a little, no one completely. This is the only method, I have managed to evolve and I have been operating this way – better or worse – for 20 years. I dream of being consumed, absorbed, but I know what that would mean for me. I would disappear. I can’t do this to my child. At least… not yet.
Yes, I consider my mother to be Codependent, just like me and my sister.
My sister – a volcano of energy, crazy potential for exuberance, joy and stubbornness – also began to disappear, entangled in a relationship for 25 years, and for several years subjected to increasingly stronger devaluation. It makes me so sad to see this. I’m slowly losing her too.
As for HG claim, that Codependents are “unfinished Narcissists”. I agree, that we are a bit lacking. But not as much as Narcissists!
I believe, that we were developing towards Narcissism, but we did not reach the bottom, we managed to see the black hole and escape. You have to be proud of it! Don’t “end it”, don’t become a Narcissist! Never! I’d rather to turn sour, like a cucumber, in my own bed! 😊
Yes, your mental state is reflected in your body. I always know, when and for what (exactly) reason I catch new chronic autoimmune diseases (which my mother envies me so much, ha ha ha).
Your message saddened me greatly, Candied Pansy. I’m sorry I didn’t reply right away. It made me very sad – probably because it’s too close for me. And then I got absorbed in the prose of life, although I still had your answer in my mind.
Hold on, Darling, as best as you can.
And now, shake off the “weakness”, push it away, throw it away, trample it and crush it – and move forward (even if we go in tip-tops)!
Sad that your mother decided she would control her controller, and she ignored your and your sister’s concern that he would destroy her mind. Is it her goal to pronounce herself as a victim to gather pity, or escape blame? It’s a shame she’s no longer herself.
Yes, we can have the intelligence to know someone is bad to us, but it’s hard to ignore the deep needs and feelings. You’re correct that I can leave “inside”. Sometimes I do, but not for long. Moving away would help. I brought up the idea, which would benefit all of us- me moving out and my cousin moving in. They speak a lot, when my cousin visits. Why did my dad reject the idea? Why hasn’t he done laundry in 30 years? He could and still can. Why not get his groceries? He’d have to, if he wants me gone so badly (he doesn’t).
You worrying about the narcissist being able to handle it-the narc’s well-being matters more than yours (no it doesn’t). They don’t feel the same for us. They take, we give. They plow on, we stay anchored. You owe narcissists nothing. Wishing them the best can be healing, if it’s paired with cutting the obligation to wait for or help them. You deserve peace, not just relief that a narcissist is okay. Your life is to live, not for watching narcs live. Sometimes I wake up and wonder if my dad is dead. He’s in his 70s with health issues. When I hear he lives, I’m relieved and sad. How can that be? You know all this better than I do.
I only have one key, as only one maybe-narc bothers me (dad). It buzzes too, louder each day. Sometimes it burns. Are we afraid we’ll turn into narcissists, if we use the keys, or feel empty without the addiction?
A parent committing suicide would give you a closer knowledge of and attachment to death than most of us. Have you heard the song “Time” by Pink Floyd? It makes me think of death- also the song “Immortal” by Marina. I lament life getting shorter, because regret screams inside me. I hate to admit I could have done things differently and had another life. Effort in vain, as the past is carved.
A beautiful bed is a health necessity and treasure, in my opinion. I’m happy yours is a healing home base for you. Mine needs change. I can accept not having an interesting life, but I’d like it to be mine and to do more things I like or find important. It’s a shame to not get to see more of this world, even if I’m alien in it. You are right that whether you’re a tortoise or a hare, you finish at the same place. We all fade, generation by generation. I do feel tired in a way, living with my dad. In college, I slept less and had more to do (and no car, so a lot of walking) yet I felt energy. I now connect more to people in their 70s and older than the 30-somethings. My spirit is in a coma.
Could your mother have Munchausen’s? It is not a way I want to live, crying wolf until you have a genuine physical problem.
I am really sorry you understand this lack of having your own life force. It’s as if we’re matches or lighters that must be lit aflame by others. Why do others get to create their own fire? It’s smart you don’t allow yourself to be completely absorbed by one particular narcissist, even if it’s your deepest desire. I admire that you don’t allow yourself to disappear for your child’s sake, and urge that no matter how old she becomes, you remain your own person as much as possible.
I wonder if Codependent is genetic, and your mother gave it to you and your sisters. I am sorry you are watching your sister become a ghost. It is murder, yet the body breathes. Volcanoes can go dormant but it doesn’t mean they’re gone. They can erupt again. 25 years is a long time. My mother left my father after 21 years. She’ll never get to be 33 again (66 now), but at least she is not devalued on a daily basis. She doesn’t have to make dinner for someone who puts it down.
Have you read HG’s book Chained? It’s for codependents. Sometimes I wonder if Codependent is between empath and narcissist. It seems like a bridge. As you said, CoDs are on the way to narcissist but as it splits, they go one way and the narcs another. Same root, two branches. Maybe we orbit the black hole but narcs are swallowed. I don’t mean to insult Codependents, as I did last year by asking HG if they can look like narcissists. Codependents are empaths, not predators. Maybe we’re more sour than most empaths. Sometimes a sandwich needs pickles. 😊
I’m lucky to be free of major health issues so far, but small issues creep up. It’s tragic that your mother resigned herself to this twisted chosen victimhood. When you envy your daughter having health issues, that’s a red flag you’re doing something wrong.
I apologize for saddening you! You don’t need to apologize for not replying right away, or at all. You live your life, as I do mine. I appreciate what you say. It can be hard to return to someone’s issues when they’re close to yours.
I hold. Knowing that people understand this situation, even strangers across the world, is a balm. Shake It Off plays in my head. 🙂 Thank you for the time you took to respond, Joa. I appreciate it.
‘Maybe HG lied to me and we’re narcs like Meghan Thomas + Doria’
Your father definitely sounds like a narcissist. You don’t. Your mother doesn’t. And HG has no cause to lie to you about this information.
‘To be fair if the door was unlocked, I didn’t go in….. I’d let her die to please a bully who didn’t care….’
This is how it works when a narcissist is controlling the household. He breaks you all down. You can’t defy him.
‘No wonder HG is disgusted w/me.’
I feel confident he wouldn’t be.
‘I couldn’t control him so I hated her and myself instead, hoping at least one of us would die’
That’s because your father had hijacked your family and had broken down all the people in it. You were broken.
‘I’m his third and final wife, despite his insistence to the contrary.’
You’re not his wife. His wives choose that position. If you haven’t chosen it you aren’t it. You’re not responsible for his happiness or care. You don’t have to completely abandon him but you have the right to pull away from him emotionally and physically as well.
‘We unaware narcs are wild, so convinced we truly love. Markle videos get harder to hear.’
These videos are not helping you. HG has many other valuable and interesting videos and they would be much more useful for you than MM content.
‘Why do I keep chaining myself to these men when they keep showing me who they are? I know I can’t control them but I keep thinking I need their permission or approval to live my own life.’
My guess is you don’t have enough confidence in yourself so find men who show confidence in themselves because it makes you feel safer. Like your own approval isn’t meaningful or trustworthy enough.
You need to develop your confidence in yourself. You need to view yourself without the bias you currently carry against yourself.
Lots of people can help you but you must allow them to tell you their truth rather than the one you feel you must tell yourself.
Hello annaamel. I appreciate you taking the time to read my novel, analyze it, and help me. I’m not expecting anyone to sit through this second novel. I find it therapeutic to write.
My dad can be a narc, narcissistic, or normal. I’d be surprised @ empath. Most but me would say normal or narcissistic. Then again, Prince Harry’s an “empath”, yet he has rumored pre-MM history of abusing people and animals. Thank you for saying my mom and I don’t sound like narcs. It’s scary how much we have in common w/MM & her parents. HG has no cause to lie but maybe I lied, and he just sent the result of my lies without clarifying “you got it to say empath but you’re a narc.” It’s distressing that he won’t answer the false flag question.
If I had emotional empathy, I’d have checked her. I was relieved she didn’t “make” my dad act up, yet envied her relief from him. To him & his family, he was Good. I didn’t love him, but he was God and you can’t judge God. “You can’t defy him” is 100% and during a rant on my mom he said “she deliberately defied me” like she was a dog.
You are kind. I’m disgusted w/me, when I look at my actions and motives.
“That’s because your father had hijacked your family and had broken down all the people in it. You were broken.”
Someone almost cut an onion- not sure if knowing we were broken down is sad or comforting. You are generous to not blame me. The adults were mostly responsible but I wish I’d tried.
“You’re not his wife. His wives choose that position. If you haven’t chosen it you aren’t it. You’re not responsible for his happiness or care. You don’t have to completely abandon him but you have the right to pull away from him emotionally and physically as well.”
True, I didn’t choose to be his. I hate myself for not being smart enough to get a degree, not charming enough to get hired, not enough ad infinitum. I’m expected to be his butler. He could do more for himself than he does. Thank you for saying I have the right to pull away. It’s like I was created and born to be his. It’s why I can’t make anything else in life work. Other people can only tolerate me offline for so long. I’m a black hole.
“These videos are not helping you. HG has many other valuable and interesting videos and they would be much more useful for you than MM content.”
I liked Markle vids until I realized I’m her (need to be & be seen as great but am not, thinking I love when I hurt/neglect/annoy, accountability feels like danger, etc). HG’s other videos help when I forget the false flag thing. When it hits, nothing helps.
I went out w/a few frogs in my youth but now it’s just HG and my dad. If my dad dies before I do, HG will be my painful sun. I feel I don’t have the right to my thoughts or actions. I don’t trust or approve of myself. It’s why I need to be able to trust HG. Thank you for helping me.
CP,
Even I can tell you’re an empath, just from the comments you post. It leaps out on the blog. It was apparent before you got the detector results and is still apparent.
Whether you’re a narcissist is not the issue.
The issue is your codependency. The chains.
As you’ve acknowledged, HG is both your poison and your medicine,but in recognising this paradox you’re already a step ahead.
HG can help you. But it will not be by telling you you’re a false empath. It will not be by producing videos about famous people that you watch and look for signs about yourself in. It will even not be by being charming or appealing.
It will be by giving you videos about addiction to narcissists. By publishing books about codependency. By being direct with you in detector results or possibly in consults should you access them. By providing you opportunities to write here and exchange ideas with other readers who will tell you their opinions.
There is also help off blog. There are psychologists and therapists who are very good at unravelling very negative and painful feelings, including self blame, which many people experience to some degree.
Empaths are not perfect. They’re not all good. They can be particularly awful at times. But that doesn’t mean they ‘unbecome’ empaths. Or that they weren’t empaths originally. They’re humans. They happen to feel their empathy in an unusual way to most people. But they are fallible.
You are an imperfect, empathic human, CP. And I like your novels.
HI again annaamel, I have read and appreciate all of your 2nd comment. I got Chained a while ago and should read it, though it will upset me.
There are things I should do (like not-HG therapy as you said) but I feel anxious and immoral when taking steps to advance my life. He didn’t want me to go to college away from him. He convinced me I’m selfish and that is hard to fight.
Thankfully I am noveled out, at least for the time being. 24 hours later could be a different story!
I am sorry if I caused anyone to think “she’s having a crisis”. Sometimes I just let out what is always festering inside when not distracting myself. A reason I use HG to joke around so much. It feels better.
Candied, I’m back with the tender slaps for you😘 Slap!Slap! You’re an empath! Listen to Annamael!!!👍❤️
Candy, you have in no way been overdoing any anger. Your fellow readers tend to be very well tuned in to tiny signs, and that’s what’s happened. I’ve noticed that empaths can think they’re behaving angrily when others would not see any anger at all.
I did my empath detector because I suspected I was a narcissist. If anything, that was probably one of the signs I wasn’t one because, like Leigh says, narcissists don’t have worries like that.
What the detector helped me realise is that a lot of my thinking and behaviour is driven by my empathy for others – especially people I don’t know. That’s unusual. I can feel it deeply and (I will, if possible) act on it to affect a situation. That places me in particular empathic categories.
I still have thoughts and behaviours which would be considered narcissistic and which were the indicators, for me, that I might be a narcissist. They are part of my make up. Some definitely cause me to inflict damage on others. I can be mean, hurtful, selfish, insensitive or neglectful. I’ll always have those traits, but like other aware narcissists, I can exert some control over my natural tendencies if I think it valuable to do so.
Even though I also haven’t done the trait detector, I know there are at least ten traits which are narcissistic which I could have and have very noticeably, pushing me this way and that on a daily basis, just like a narcissist. But unlike a narcissist I’d also have several strong empathic traits, also acting upon my thoughts and behaviour.
I am not 100% sure what all the traits are but I feel fairly confident that I’m high in entitlement and selfishness and I also carry resentment. I’d think my top empathic traits would be justice seeking and decency. I am not a natural carer nor am I an excellent listener.
Just from reading your posts I’d think your tops and bottoms would be quite different to mine. But like me you’d still have a wide range of both types of traits, in varying degrees, which would make themselves known at different times and in response to different stimuli. Very stressful stimuli would bring out heightened responses which magnify any of those traits – especially the narcissistic ones, which are often in place as protective mechanisms.
I have done things I’m not proud of. Things that are done and unchangeable. That’s part of life and we all have those in our pasts. Sometimes I need others to help me see these events in a more objective way. Once I can do that I can get a better, more manageable perspective on them which helps me put them behind me and use them as lessons I can learn from.
Nothing is ever straightforward or easy, but small plans based on what you think will help you make progress, and acting on those plans, will make a difference.
Annaamel, I feel I overdid the anger, or word-vomited a lot lately. Thank you for thinking I haven’t. I can see empaths feeling it’s too much when they express a little bit. I tend to think, “No one’s reading this so I can vent.” Then I find out someone has and I feel bad.
I’ve just said this to Leigh- not sure if or when my comment will show- but if you and she, and who knows how many other empaths suspected being narcissists, it’s a widespread issue. I want to believe it’s as easy as “if you wonder if you’re a narc, you’re not”, but I can’t.
I’m glad the detector helped you realize your thinking and behavior are driving by empathy for others. It’s clear in your comments that you empathize with those you don’t know. We all have narc traits for life, but noticing that in yourself is a sign of awareness. Most narcs aren’t aware. HG is rare. I’ve also been mean, hurtful, selfish, insensitive, and neglectful. Of course I don’t like to detail instances of those traits here. That you control your narcissistic traits shows emotional empathy for others. Only aware narcs control themselves, and it’s to achieve the prime aims more to their liking, not because they have empathy for others.
I don’t recall all the narcissistic traits. Are there ten narc traits and ten empathic traits? Yes, an empath can have several and strong narcissistic traits, but what “saves” them is empathic traits. Also you may not be an excellent listener offline, but I think you are online re: understanding other people’s comments. You wouldn’t make the comments you do to me and others if you didn’t care. Maybe it’s not strong or constant, but caring is there. Just my opinions.
True, I’d have empathic as well as narcissistic traits. It’s the narc’s counterfeit of empathic traits that trips me up. How do I know if I feel guilt or false contrition? How can I know if I’m realistic about myself or it’s false humility? Yes, narcissistic traits do get magnified in times of stress, and empathic traits can get corrupted? HG has mentioned the truth seeking trait getting corrupted by ET, inflamed by stressful stimuli.
I’ve also done things I’m not proud of, things I won’t share here. It’s good you have others to help you see your events objectively, to help you learn from them and put them away.
You’re right that acting on small plans will make a difference. Thank you again.
‘I’m glad the detector helped you realize your thinking and behavior are driving by empathy for others. It’s clear in your comments that you empathize with those you don’t know.’
I expect it would be. The detector picks up what already exists and so it’d be apparent to you all as well. It just wasn’t as noticeable to me before I saw the results of the detector.
‘We all have narc traits for life, but noticing that in yourself is a sign of awareness.’
Narcissism adds that layer of protection from self criticism, and so self awareness is limited. In contrast, empaths can be aware (even overly aware) of their less pleasant traits.
‘That you control your narcissistic traits shows emotional empathy for others.’
Perhaps. But I can’t always do so and don’t always try. And sometimes I just don’t feel any empathy. At all.
‘I don’t recall all the narcissistic traits. Are there ten narc traits and ten empathic traits?’
I believe the detector focuses on ten from each side. Others could confirm.
‘Yes, an empath can have several and strong narcissistic traits, but what “saves” them is empathic traits.’
True. They cannot be classed as narcissists if they have even one emotionally empathic trait.
‘Also you may not be an excellent listener offline, but I think you are online re: understanding other people’s comments. ‘
Thanks CP. I mentioned this because I wanted to illustrate that one can be an empath and be weak in some types of empathic responses, to help you see that one can have flaws or show a less empathic response but still be an empath.
‘You wouldn’t make the comments you do to me and others if you didn’t care. Maybe it’s not strong or constant, but caring is there.’
Yes, that’s correct. It’s not that I don’t or can’t listen or that I have no caring instinct. Both traits are present. They’re just not strong or dominant.
‘True, I’d have empathic as well as narcissistic traits.’
Yes, and you’d be especially strong in empathic traits or you’d have been classified as normal which you weren’t.
‘It’s the narc’s counterfeit of empathic traits that trips me up.’
I think your negative feelings about yourself make you very susceptible to this worry.
‘How do I know if I feel guilt or false contrition? How can I know if I’m realistic about myself or it’s false humility?’
One practical way to find it out is to ask others for their informed opinions; in particular, others who are experts in pinpointing the difference. However, you have done this and are finding it difficult to accept the assessments because they challenge the idea you’ve carried about yourself for a long time. So the question is not how can you know, but how can you accept.
‘It’s good you have others to help you see your events objectively, to help you learn from them and put them away.’
People who helped me didn’t seek me out. I sought them. This kind of help doesn’t come on a silver platter all ready to untangle our contorted thinking (unless we are very fortunate to have extremely attuned, emotionally generous and wise parents, and some do) so we need to look for this kind of support. I can see you are doing this, and it’s one of the small plans I was referring to.
‘You’re right that acting on small plans will make a difference. Thank you again.’
It will.
HI CP,
You should listen to AA. You’re not a narcissist. I agree with AA, you scream empath.
Did you see Mr. Tudor’s response to me?
Mr. Tudor said, “It is a common feature that empathic individuals question that they are empaths and fear that they are narcissists.” That’s what you’re doing right now.
If you were a narc, you wouldn’t be worrying that you’re a narc.
I think you’re experiencing guilt. You’re questioning how you were able to treat your mother the way you did. Do you want to share what happened? How old were you? What was wrong with her? Maybe it was fear that stopped you. Maybe you didn’t want to see her in a frail state. Is your mother still alive? You don’t have to share but if you want to, I’m hear to listen.
Thank you Leigh. Yes I saw HG’s response to you.
I feel guilt or false contrition. My mom was on meds, likely anti-anxiety and anti-depressants, as my dad smeared her to therapists. Sometimes she’d abuse the meds and be high. I’m not anti-meds but she shouldn’t have been on them. She needed away from my dad. During those times, I saw that no one but me wanted things better and they’d stop me if I tried to corral her, so I quit unless required by other forces, like once she drove when I was asleep and dad was at work. Cops called to have me get her. Without a car, I had to bother a neighbor. When she was in bed, I was relieved she wasn’t making trouble, until it was 2 days. Then I got a bit nervous. I was afraid she might be dead, and didn’t want to deal with it. I can’t overstate how much I disliked her and it wasn’t worth my dad’s drama. The last time she abused meds (which I don’t 100% blame her for, more my dad) I was 18. Off and on the first 18 years of my life.
She’s been off meds over 10 years now, since a couple years before she left my dad. We’re having lunch today and while she’s stressed (her narc brother), at least she’s sober. She’s apologized many times and if she’s a narc, at least she’s more convincing than my dad. When I try to get him to acknowledge anything was hard for me, I get narc-like sh*t back.
Hi CP,
My first reaction is to yell, “Stop it! Its not false contrition.” I was just saying to TS on another thread that we often don’t have empathy for ourselves. That’s what’s happening here. You don’t have empathy for yourself. What would you say if I told you this story? You should say that to yourself.
None of us are angels. It doesn’t mean were narcissists though. We do have narcissistic traits though. That’s why I suggested you take the trait detector. Its sounds like you have some resentment towards your mother. I get it. My resentment trait is high too. Its ok if you feel some resentment for having to take care of things. I often feel resentment towards my mother as well.
I’m glad to hear your mom has been clean for 10 years. That’s definitely a positive. Its very possible the drugs caused her narcissistic traits to come out. We all have them and they can surface at any time. I hope your lunch goes well today.
Hi Leigh (to your Feb 1 comment- please don’t feel pressured to reply),
I can’t tell if my guilt is real or fake. I go between feeling sorry for myself and contempt. You’re right about real empaths not having empathy for themselves. I know you’re a real empath so I’d tell you to stop beating yourself up. You were/are a human with unfair burdens on you. Even the sweetest of empaths will have at least a hint of at least one narc trait.
You’re right that empaths aren’t angels. I don’t need them or myself to be, to accept the empath label. I wish I didn’t hear that interview HG did w/Doug. Not Doug’s fault. Curiosity kills the cat, but satisfaction won’t bring me back to blissful ignorance. You’re correct re: resentment. I’ve always been resentful. Envy, vanity, defensiveness, and paranoia are high too. I’m sorry you have the load of resenting your mother, but hope it’s more helpful than harmful. Some say anger and resentment are drinking poison and hoping whoever you’re angry at gets sick. Maybe, but just blaming myself and my mom was poison too.
I’m glad she’s clean too, thank you for saying so. She blames herself for it, more than I blame her. Lunch was nice 🙂 we used to hate each other (she envied his obsession w/me, I hated her not saving me) but the last few years have been better. Her admitting to things helps a lot.
Thank you again for being so patient with me.
Hi CP,
I want you to know that you’ve helped me too. I’m in an angry and resentful place right now. I have a disabled sibling going through something right now and my mother and husband are both useless. The resentment is super high right now, But your comment made me realize that I’m just doing damage to myself. I have to let that go. Thank you.
Hi CP,
Its important to understand that ET doesn’t necessarily mean you’re having an emotional outburst. ET means that you’re not thinking logically. Since empaths have an addiction to narcissists, our ET will con us into interacting with them. We can’t see clearly what’s happening. We’ve got rose-colored glasses on and we’re in a fog. Our ET will often hijack and corrupt our traits and use them against us. A good example is the truth seeker trait. We want to know the truth and we keep interacting with the narcissist to get to the truth. But that’s our ET conning us.
Another way this takes place is believing that we’re the narcissist. That we’re the bad ones. Its a trick to keep us ensnared and interacting with the narcissist.
One other thing I wanted to point out is that if a mid range narcissist says there a narcissist, its a blame shift. They’re using the narcissism to escape culpability for their transgressions. You’re not doing that. You’re not blame shifting. You’re reflecting. You’re trying to figure out why you didn’t go in that room.
I think the next package you should try to obtain is The Addiction – Triple Package. Its key to your healing and understanding. It will help shatter the rose-colored glasses and remove the fog.
Hi Leigh,
You’re right that ET isn’t always an outburst, but thinking without logic. I tend to see it as being emotional. Yes an empath’s narc addiction will make one think, “I must get the narc to admit to what they do! Then they’ll stop!” ET, fog, rose colored glasses, narc addict, truth-seeker trait as you said. There’s a quote from Bojack Horseman. It’s like, “When you’re wearing rose colored glasses, all the red flags just look like flags.”
Maybe HG could do a video on empaths fearing they’re narcs. If it’s an issue for empaths, it’s worth addressing. You can tell someone that their ET/narc addiction is making them blame themselves to stay with the narc, but if they’re not sure they’re empaths, it won’t help.
I agree with you re: mid-range narcs blame-shifting, if they’re aware of narcissism. It’s what I’d do, pre sulking and withdrawing. I think, “If I had a shred of emotional empathy, I’d have gone in that room.” Maybe real empaths ain’t sh*t sometimes. There’s a reason no one offline sees me as an empath, like with Prince Harry. I’m a mix of him and Markle.
I’ll consider “The Addiction – Triple Package”. Thank you.
Already done.
HG, if it’s “am I a narcissist”, it doesn’t help now. If it’s another video, sorry I don’t know it. What’s it called?
Hi CP,
The name of the video is called Fear and the Empathic victim. I definitely think its something you should consider listening too.
I think a lot of us on the blog have thought we were narcissists. You’re not alone. Even after I got my results, I thought I tricked the test. I thought I was inherently bad. Part of the problem is that I’m stoic and it can appear to look like I’m unfeeling. I don’t do hugs. I don’t cry.
For years, I thought there was something wrong with me. I must be the bad one since since I’m so cold. But the coldness is coping mechanism for me. Its to keep my wall up. Plus, just because I don’t show my feelings outside, doesn’t mean I don’t feel them on the inside.
My point of all of this is to say that you’re right. Telling you that you’re not a narcissist isn’t going to help you. What you need to do is learn to understand yourself. That’s why I think the trait detector is so important. It will help identify your traits and then learn about yourself. When you begin to understand yourself, it will start to become clearer.
I know you watch a lot of the MM videos. Have you read any of Mr. Tudor’s books? There are so many that are so helpful and they’re all reasonably priced. Fuel, Fury, Sitting Target, Manipulated, Red Flag & Black Flag are key to your education.
Hi Leigh, I’ll have to check out Fear and the Empathic Victim. It looks to be on gumroad, but I saw videos that should help.
It’s unfortunate that so many people falsely think they’re narcs. I see why not being emotive can cause you or others to think you don’t care, no matter how untrue. If someone’s idea of an empath is a narc-buster or contagion, it’s hard to believe you’re one, especially if you’re reserved and stuck w/ narcs. Offline, I’m cold too. I didn’t and don’t need to be empathic, just to stop worrying about being a narc for the rest of my life.
I have Fuel, Fury, and Chained but haven’t read them. It’s hard to read HG being cruel. I’ll read them only because I paid for them. Maybe HG doesn’t think I spent money on him. I’ll consider the ones you listed, thank you. I wish HG said I’m a narc or narcissistic. It’d hurt, but I wouldn’t still be worrying. HG, bullsh*t bingo with a trait detector as a prize?
Hi CP,
“Its hard to read HG being cruel.” That’s emotional thinking. That’s your addiction conning you and giving you an excuse to holt your learning. Read the books. I promise you, it will be worth it. And Mr. Tudor isn’t cruel in those books. At least, I didn’t think so.
“When you’re wearing rose colored glasses, all the red flags just look like flags.”
Such a great phrase.
@ Candied🌼
Am I A Narcissist
https://youtu.be/iB7-G3kjDxE?si=76D6yqufik0z7YdN
Why Am I Behaving Like A Narcissist
https://youtu.be/VLng9SHrBeQ?si=cV6dsxHQUpNHEzxg
@ Rebecca🌸
The Narcissist And Suicide
https://youtu.be/vPrZdxyVIao?si=RrZzmIzg6TUdbh-U
Thank you very much, Jordy.
Hi Candied Pansy,
I was worried about you, reading some of your angry comments and I was scared to reply, scared I’d screw it up, say the wrong thing, make things worse etc…I know how you feel, I have some of the same feelings, the self hating, the self blaming, the dark thoughts of being the bad person, of being the narc….I still question myself and self reflect a lot of my behaviors and I feel at times that I’m annoying, the dark one, the one causing issues, the one who gets angry because I think I’m bad…you’re not alone. Xx I understand how you feel because I’ve been there, still there on some days…most days, really…You’re not a narc. HG has told me that so many times and the same goes for you, you’re not a narc.
You took the EDC, came back Empath, hold on to that, hold on to it! I do that, it works! When you start having negative thoughts about yourself, repeat that you’re human and allowed to be angry, allowed to make mistakes and let it sink in. Breathe. You’re ok, you’re ok. Xx *Warm hug* xx
I hope it helps knowing you’re not alone here. Xx
Rebecca!!!! *hug or something* If you ever want me to turn off sarcasm or joking around, I can do that anytime. I enjoy it but sometimes go too far or too long. I won’t be angry or curt with you. You don’t need to worry about screwing up with me. If I sent a vent novel to HG and it sits alone, that is ok. There are a few floating around here ;p and of course it is appreciated that people take their time to reassure a stranger (me).
I am truly sorry you know the anxiety of wondering if you’re the “bad” one. It scratches from inside me and it’s hard to ignore at times.
I’ve always been unhappy at my core, a mix of sadness, fear, and shame. Maybe now (only took until my 30s) I’m starting to express some anger and overdoing it. I have been on a venting binge but thankfully feel that calming down. *stares at EDC results yet again*
Thank you (and Leigh, and annaamel, and everyone) for your kindness. It does help knowing I’m not alone here. I’m grateful for you all.
A couple of things that I have found helpful when it comes to this type of thing, is trauma assessment scales, and taking a look at what fight/ flight/ freeze/ fawn reactions look like in adulthood, and where my behaviors fall in that.
I’m not naturally a “fight” type. In my dysfunctional aggressor (father)/ codependent (mother) family unit, we all ran circles around trying to avoid the abuse, and my mother’s manipulative behavior was a mind f*** in and of itself, so in present day, when self preservation kicks in, it can bring up a lot of uncomfortable feelings.
Candied Pansy and AspEmp,
Candied Pansy, if you want to see some of my angry comments against LMRS, from when I first came to the blog (started here in November of 2021 right after disengagement/discard by LMRS) AspEmp can find them….AspEmp, you’re so good at finding old comments on here…Would you mind finding some of my angry comments, so CP can see she’s not alone? If you want to, don’t have to do it….I try to cut and paste on here and screw it up. 😄xx
Hi CP,
Your father sounds similar to mine. He was and is just awful!
When my mother was dying of stomach cancer in our family room my dad was screaming and yelling at me. She wasn’t completely conscious but could hear everything.
When my grandma (my mom’s mom) and my mom’s sister same to say goodbye, my dad pulled me aside and told me I had to take them to the basement. He hated my mom’s sister! So, my grandma barely got to say goodbye to her daughter and there I was, the one who had to keep her from doing so. It was horrific.
That was 20 years ago and I still have guilt about it. I can see the incident in my mind and feel the stress in my body.
I continued to help my dad run his business for 3 years (he was a lunatic at work too), I moved 50 miles away from him and he would call at least once a week because he fell off the roof trying to fix something…to the hospital we would go. The following week he fell off his horse, I would drive up there…to the hospital we would go.
He had no groceries so I would do that, then it was laundry so I would do that. I was a disaster, mentally and physically. I finally called my sister and told her if she didn’t come help me I would leave his ass to fend for himself. My sister moved from Montana to Colorado to be with him. She and her husband now live with him, thank God, I quit calling him or accepting his call for a year, that was 5 years ago. Now I see him once a year, we talk once a month and that’s it. I still feel guilty but I am getting better at looking at the situation logically instead of emotionally.
I am 62. I have 3 autoimmune deficiencies and a lot of other health issues. I don’t know if the stress brought them out or not, but I spend a lot of days blaming him for all of it.
I am so fortunate that I got away from him. I found HG three weeks ago and I feel such relief about the decision I made.
There are times when things feel completely hopeless, I just can’t get him out of my head. Then I can go weeks without thinking about him.
You can do this. If I could I know you can.
Sorry for writing a book, I hope it all made sense. I’m too tired to re-read what I wrote.
Hi Sonya, it’s rough to have a father like this! I’m sorry yours has also lacked empathy. Is yours a lesser narcissist? I suspect that if a narc, mine is either a lesser or lower mid-range. The yelling and screaming are familiar. To do it when your mother (his wife?) was dying of cancer is such a blatant, hurtful lack of empathy for her and you. My mother did hospice volunteering and said that the dying can hear what’s said near them. I’m sorry that it’s true, in your mother’s case.
I assume your mother wasn’t in the basement, and your father had you direct them there to keep them from your mother? If so, I blame your father. What a particularly disgusting time to keep your mother isolated, when her mom + sister come to say their last goodbye to her. You’re not alone in feeling stress in your body and being able to relive it 20 years later. Please know you weren’t and aren’t at fault! Narc parents are excellent at making us slaves, doing what they wish, even when it’s heinous. We, especially daughters, are groomed to be their lieutenants. I think of certain times and feel tension in my jaw, shoulders. Anxiety in my limbs, stomach.
Helping him run his business looks like it was difficult, especially if he was risking his life just to waste yours on hospital trips. I swear that sometimes they cause or allow problems to happen, to get fuel and control, even if it sabotages residual benefits.
Was your dad physically unable to get groceries or laundry? Mine can but won’t. If you’re an empath (99% sure you are, sorry if you said so and I missed it), I wouldn’t be surprised if you had carrier or martyr. Trying to please the unpleasable will suck the lift out of you. I’m a disaster. I don’t blame you for calling your sister. You shouldn’t have had to cater to him alone. Were you his non-intimate primary source? I feel like my dad’s. It’s good you freed yourself!
It looks like you’ve already achieved almost no contact with your dad. Otherwise I’d recommend the “how to handle a parental narcissist” package. Guilt is understandable but illogical. It’s good you already know that.
The stress likely caused or at least exacerbated the health issues. I don’t have studies on hand but it’s said that stress (especially from childhood) can cause health issues, especially autoimmune, in adulthood.
It’s fortunate you got away from him! I’m glad finding HG has helped you.
If you go weeks without thinking of your dad, even after times of him being stuck in your head (addiction to narcissists), you’ve made progress! Life without him haunting you is the goal.
I can leave mine, but fear God will punish me and/or my dad will rot.
No need to be sorry. I’m obviously not above writing books! It’s not good you’ve had to understand this experience, but since you do, I’m grateful you shared.
Hello dear CP: Guilt and remorse are not features of a narc or psychopath! It is clear you have empathy by definition! Here are the top ten reasons you should celebrate:
1. you feel and receive love;
2. You feel and receive joy;
3. You help create a community like here;
4. You help others making a better world for yourself and future generations;
5. What does not kill us makes us stronger….our pain causes growth in ourselves, we get stronger;
6. We don’t need fuel to exist;
7. Our humanity connects others;
8. Many of us are creative, look at Joa… she writes poetically and our dreams are often lush gardens, we cook, garden, act, paint, write….
9. We are better mothers so the world continues and we can eliminate Elon Musks worries of underpopulation. A baby is helpless who better than us to secure his or her or both survival;
10. We are connected to the LIGHT. Life is short and eternity is long.
Embrace yourself and swords up! You are stronger than you think and a good empath! Hugs! X
Thank you CP.
I just saw your response and appreciate your understanding of the situation I have been in. It sounds like yours is pretty rough right now. I want to address something you said,
“I’ve always been unhappy at my core, a mix of sadness, fear, and shame. Maybe now (only took until my 30s) I’m starting to express some anger and overdoing it.”
I am the same way, I have experienced happiness many times in my life but it is not my true nature. I’ve had people tell me I just need to decided to be happy. What does that even mean, lol
I experience happiness for other people so I know I can be happy. None of it makes sense to me so I will leave it at that.
Big hugs to you!
Yeah. A lack of support: If anything, no matter what, went wrong im my life, it was always MY FAULT! That´s what my “dad” said. No comforting words, no cheering up, no wiping away of my tears, no hug but lots and lots of put-downs, blaimings and shamings, so that I felt even WORSE! Thanks for nothing, Dad!
That sounds truly awful, Leela. It must have been quite hurtful.
Yes, it was indeed very painful! Had zero self-confidence until age 25 or so. I was the scapegoat of the family. Built up self-confidence very late in life, but better late than never, right?
Right. And I think that age coincides with a significant milestone in brain development, that rational prefrontal cortex.
Age and what one makes of their life, their attitude, their fighting spirit, their lifestyle, their nutrition, their willpower, their resilience, etc. Many many factors play a role there. Some of us break, some of us fight!
Same w/my dad. Narc parents don’t care that we’re humans. We’re “appliances”. HG knows.
Pull yourself up by the bootstraps they keep cutting! /sarcasm
Yes, we´re just “objects” who should do what they want! NPD is really a serious brain damage!
NPD behavior seems to damage our brains more than those with the disorder!
Their brains have been already damaged in early childhood. But yes, OUR brains get also badly damaged. I saw brain scans of ACONs: totally shrinked hippocampi (parts in the middle of the brain). Interesting is, that that´s exactly the part of the brain which plays a key role in depression and anxiety!!
HG would say go No Contact. It’s hard with family but try to limit it. Keep it civil and brief the contact if you can. Maybe consult with HG for tips. I think you will find yourself blooming the greater the distance from the rot.
Thank you Contagious. We’re basically married. I rot with him and feel better away. I got HG’s parental set of audio files and may have to use it to at least ANC. It’s funny, in the parental narcissist package, at one point HG was like “if your parent didn’t make your life suck you wouldn’t be listening to this”. NDC is overdue. I avoid for various reasons. You’re right re: no contact.
@candied
It might be worth considering your options regarding passing care of your dad to someone else. I’m not sure what’s available in your country but maybe you could contact social services and request a care assessment from them because you’re not able to care for him anymore and dip?
Maybe look to having a consultation with HG about it, using the Angel assistance fund.
Both my parents are narcs and when I cut both of them off, it was hard, I felt like an orphan but I’m much better off now! It’s worth it
Matrinarc did try and pop back up today, she figured out my work email address and emailed me saying she over heard me saying something about her to my sister so decided to write a complaint. at first I was like “😮 that stalking arse bitch! How dare she!”
But then I started laughing because it reminded me of the scene from the movie, white chicks:
“I’m going to write a letter!
Dear mister royal Hampton, I am a white woman in America!”
I was cracking up 🤣
@witch,
If my dad ever needs real care and not just wanting a butler, I’ll have to see if he can get in a home or have a carer come. Family won’t help. They won’t say it but they’re glad he’s my problem. Thank you for suggesting a social services visit if I’m ready to dip. I’d hate to take from AAF but it’s lovely that it’s there for those who need it. I’m a “last resort” person re: taking help.
I can’t imagine how hard it is to have to cut both parents off, but it was needed if you’re better after doing it. I’m sorry you had to do it, and glad you were able to. Ew, creepy matrinarc emailing your work address! Is she trying to get you fired? That’s awful but it looks like she’s more of a “karen” than a real threat.
white chicks is the epitome of white American womanhood, I can confirm 🤣
@Candied
Cutting my parents off was needed. Once I realised they never loved me and I was being used, I was no longer ignorant to what they really were, it would have been very difficult to continue “normally” with them. Yes I have moral standards and I judge people. I feel that I am better than them, despite my own troubles and flaws, I don’t need them. They need me but I’m too good for them.
And you’re too good to be an unpaid butler to a narcissist. Whatever is taken is owed. People who have no gratitude don’t deserve you.
“Stop crying or I will give you something to cry about.” This was my legal guardian’s constant mantra. Reading this is really effective because, even though I always knew she was hurting me and that she was a dangerous person, my understanding wasn’t this stark. For her I was a child, therefore I was weak. My weakness was intolerable to her because it got in the way of her need to gather fuel. I disgusted her on a visceral level. I was only good if I was attending to her needs, and even then it wasn’t about me being good but my fuel. My own needs for food, clothing, emotional support, shelter, etcetera were a distraction and they needed to be quashed.
“Stop crying or I will give you something to cry about.” When I was in fourth grade, I slammed my hand in an industrial door and nearly pinched off my thumb. I willed myself not to shed one tear. I returned to class and finished the school day without asking an adult for help. The digit healed a bit wrong, the cuticle is still very sensitive, and it appears different from the left one if I show you how to look. It bothers me to this day but I’m proud of it, if grudgingly. A lesson from dearest mama which benefitted all those who later treated me like a footstool.
True–she was expert at giving me something to cry about. Her narcissism did everything it could to neutralize the dependent, emotional, needy, small child. My delicate, queasy stomach, my hair that wouldn’t be tamed, my growth that outpaced my closet, my quiet happiness about the outdoors–these threatened to get in the way of her incessant gathering of fuel. If her fangs weren’t in my neck, or if I’d been sucked dry for a time, then I had to be put down because I was useless to her narcissism. Soon I stopped giving her my tears.
And she had no awareness of herself at all about why she did what she did, so it was all projected onto me. Being a child, I tried to love her, and it nearly destroyed me. These things are harsh and tough for the deeply emotional person I am to accept, but it’s true and it’s the most helpful information I’ve ever come across. Understanding is much better, no matter the initial discomfort. Thank you, HG.
Hi Allison,
I agree. Understanding is so much better than not knowing. So much of my life makes sense now because Mr. Tudor has given me clarity.
You say she was your legal guardian. Was she your step mother or your grandmother? I hope you’re free from her now.
Hi Leigh,
She was my grandmother through her adoption of my biological mother.
She molders in the ground.
Leigh and Allison,
I understand how you feel, I only got completely free from my mother when she died. Funny thing is, I’m still not sure it’s completely free, as her words still haunt me, but at least it’s only in my head and she’s not physically here now. Xx It’s more like, mostly free, while she’s completely dead. Xx
I understand. When my tuner goes to her greatest hits, I switch the dial.
I’m the one still above ground. I choose freedom.
I don’t remember crying in front of my family, ever. I remember my older sister crying because of the words of my narc father who then shouted at her and ridiculed her for crying. I even remember my narc mother crying bec of my narc father, no idea how that’s possible (not in front of him, she was alone in the kitchen).
But I never cried (I must have learned from watching the others) , I only remember crying against my will when I hurt myself once, and when I was left at Sunday school when very small.
And my narc mother made me cry 1,5 years ago when I confronted her about things – – because I was so angry!! and she denied everything.
That gave her obviously so much fuel that she even hugged me…. (I was in shock then, lol…. no idea where she learned to do that). But it certainly didn’t get me any support from her, she was ice cold as always towards my needs.
But I know these words from ex narc boyfriends “stop crying or I will leave”, etc. or “stop this emotional coercion”.
In front of my family, I learned to never show my emotions, none of them, I dissociated. There are no photos of me laughing of joy either, and I don’t remember it either.
(There’s 1 photo of me with a Guinea pig on my lap, that’s it.)
Last year I needed to go to the hospital to remove a molar. It was broken. I was so very afraid and my narc wanted to come with me. He had lost some teeth in the militairy and I suspect he was afraid too. The boss would pay to fix it but he choose not to.
Anyway. I thought I had support but when I was called he stayed in the waiting room. Giving me no choice than to go alone. At the time I thought his reasons were different, now I know better. Pure use of my fear and to control me.
What I do find weird is that he never put me down in the way you describe HG. Not once. All the Narc behaviour is there I think, but not this.
Thank you for sharing again. Love to read the Posts.