Knowing the Narcissist : The Loneliness of the Long Distance Empath
Long Distance Empaths have always existed within the Fuel Matrix of the narcissist, although they were comparatively rare since the method of communication with the Long Distance Empath would only occur through telephone, postal service and carrier pigeon. Fuel provision was intermittent and small in amount. Yes, the Long Distance Empath (“LDE”) existed but was not an integral part of the narcissist´s fuel matrix.
Then along came the internet.
Now, the LDE is far more common and most narcissists will have an LDE in the Fuel Matrix.
So, what is the Long Distance Empath?
- It is not somebody who is already in the Fuel Matrix who goes on holiday for two weeks, even if that is on the other side of the world.
- It is not somebody who is already in the Fuel Matrix who goes away with work across the country for a few months.
- It is somebody who lives an aeroplane journey away or 4 or more hours´ drive away.
- It is somebody who the narcissist met electronically such as through a dating site or app, on social media or in a chat room. This is a fundamental criterion.
- It is somebody where the interaction between the narcissist and victim is conducted through telephone calls, text messages, emails, social media messages, FaceTime and/or Skype and equivalents.
- The interaction has not involved any actual face to face meeting at any point.
- The interaction has continued for 6 months or more without any physical meeting taking place.
So where does the LDE sit in the fuel matrix of the narcissist?
The Non-Intimate Secondary Source
This conceivably could be a colleague, for instance individuals who work in separate and distant offices who have not met in person, it might also include family if the family members have never met (say cousins) but again it is rare, more usually with regard to the NISS it concerns a friend.
The NISS LDE is treated in a shelf style, just like any other NISS. There will be a Hoover Trigger (the NISS texts the narcissist, the NISS emails or the narcissist just happens to think of the NISS) and the HEC will usually be met because the nature of the hoover (which is how the NISS is taken off the shelf) will be electronic in nature.
The NISS LDE will usually remain painted white and in a golden period almost all of the time. This is because
- The intermittent nature of shelf interaction prevents the fuel becoming stale and therefore that particular devaluation trigger is avoided,
- The intermittent nature of shelf interaction means the NISS has less opportunity to do something which challenges the narcissist and accordingly receive a Corrective Devaluation.
The NISS LDE who is a friend to the narcissist holds a moderate to moderate high position within the fuel matrix in terms of potency and also with regard to the amount of fuel provided because as the interactions are electronic in nature, they will not involve a physically proximate interaction.
The NISS LDE is found mainly with those in the online and video game community. The narcissist will be part of a gaming group and will repeatedly interact with many NISSs and often at the same time and for hours on end. This form of interaction is often using microphones and headphones whilst gaming, so there is a voice exchange which is a moderately high amount of fuel but of sustained and prolonged frequency. Those narcissists who are interested in gaming will often retreat to their bolthole when the Intimate Partner Primary Source (“IPPS”) is in devaluation and ensconced there have their fuel needs addressed by this online gaming community night after night, a steady flow of moderately potent, moderately high in amount and certainly sufficient to sustain the narcissist alongside the negative fuel provided in person by the ignored, exasperated and of course in devaluation, IPPS.
The Intimate Partner Secondary Source
The LDE IPSS will be treated like a Dirty Little Secret (“DLS”) for the most part.
Since the category is secondary source, again the appliance is treated in a shelf manner so that when there is a Hoover Trigger and the Hoover Execution Criteria are met, the narcissist will hoover by taking this type of LDE off the shelf.
The interaction with this LDE is one whereby they are isolated from the rest of the narcissists fuel matrix. Yes, the narcissist may well talk about other people in the fuel matrix but this LDE (like the in the flesh equivalent DLS) does not meet, speak to or see the friends, family and colleagues of the narcissist. They are kept in an electronic box and taken out when the narcissist wants fuel.
The LDE IPSS has been recruited into the fuel matrix for one purpose and one purpose alone – sexual interaction. There will be sexting, dirty telephone calls involving mutual masturbation, the sending of nude pictures, the creation of and sending sexual videos, emails detailing what the narcissist wants to do to the LDE.
How does the interaction play out between the narcissist and the LDE IPSS?
- Owing to the intermittent nature of the interaction, fuel does not become stale and therefore this devaluation trigger is not applicable.
- It is a shelf dynamic and therefore the LDE IPSS will be taken off and placed on the shelf repeatedly. Taken off for some texting, for a session of mutual masturbation on Skype or for a dirty telephone call.
- If you are a LDE IPSS you will not be the only one. There will be others. The dick pic you have just received? Two other people will have received it and as you are striking a pose in the bedroom and firing back that topless picture, at least another person will be doing similar. The narcissist prefers to have several LDE IPSSs on the go because they are easy to find (there are hunting grounds all over the internet) and it is easy to hoover and thus gain fuel.
- The fuel that is provided is of high potency, the frequency can be sustained (for instance an hour long dirty telephone call) and the amount of the fuel ranges from low (dirty text) through to high (Skype video mutual masturbation session).
- The advantage for the narcissist is that when there is an in person interaction you will spot if the narcissist is looking at someone else, talking to someone else etc. The LDE IPSS rarely realises that the narcissist is texting someone else, ogling at someone else’s pictures and composing some hooklike in a chat room whilst engaging with the LDE IPSS.
- There may be occasional future faking where the narcissist makes noises about meeting up, this is done on two footings:-
a. Dangling the carrot of promised interaction in order to compel the LDE to send those nudes or make video etc, in essence fuel provision and the assertion of control , and/or
b. Where the narcissist perceives that the control over the LDE is slipping and therefore the promise is made or the prospect of meeting is offered in order to assert control once again.
The LDE IPSS is highly unlikely to be able to meet the narcissist in person. A Greater might be moved to meet if they happened to be in the locality of the LDE for other reasons, but the narcissist is not going to go out of their way for this appliance. This is because there will be physically proximate IPSSs that the narcissist is either engaging with or they will engage with and because the largest amount of fuel that can be provided is from an in person proximate interaction this will always trump the LDE.
The LDE IPSS will almost always be engaged with when the IPPS of the narcissist is in devaluation. They are in essence a sexy, exciting fuel provider which is key hidden away in the depths of the internet and is brought out intermittently, maybe nightly but they nearly always remain in cyberspace.
Where a narcissist engages with someone who is met electronically and who the narcissist engages with online for a period but then moves to meet with the IPSS (or NISS) then this is not an LDE. This is an interaction which began online and moved to an in person engagement and thus it is the usual pattern for IPSS or NISS.
The LDE IPSS risks Corrective Devaluation in the following circumstances :-
- Pestering the narcissist for contact when on the shelf. Repeatedly texting and calling the narcissist causes Hoover Triggers. Whilst it is easy to respond electronically to the LDE IPSS, the narcissist may well be having his fuel needs mets by the IPPS (along with IPSSs and/or other LDE IPSS) and therefore has no need to hoover the LDE IPSS who is texting the narcissist and seeking interaction. An electronic comfort crumb will usually be issued and then most usually a Silent Treatment will be administered by the narcissist who has felt challenged by the LDE IPSS seeking to make a demand on the narcissist when it is not wanted, so control is asserted by ignoring the LDE IPSS.
- Issuing threats to the narcissist to make mention of their activity somewhere online. The LDE IPSS usually does not know where the narcissist lives (or has been given incorrect information) and therefore any attempt at reprisal for mistreatment will be directed online. Issuing such threats against the narcissist will result in a Corrective Devaluation and possibly even Disengagement Devaluation.
- Failing to do what the narcissist wants. If the narcissist wants nudes and they are not provided, there will be a Corrective Devaluation which is often triangulation with the IPPS or an IPSS (or another lDE IPSS). The failure to provide the nudes (which are fuel) will wound (a failure to respond) or challenge fuel (replying but refusing to provide them).
- Since the entirety of the interaction with the LDE IPSS is electronic the Narcissist´s Social Media Laws apply and chief amongst them is that the LDE IPSS is expected to respond in an instant. Failure to do so will wound the narcissist and invite a Corrective Devaluation.
The LDE is someone (as stated above) who is met online and is kept there. They will be one of at least two LDE IPSSs and there, as always, to provide The Prime Aims but to do so primarily through a sexual online interaction which will lead nowhere.
No matter how much they want to be with the narcissist, no matter how much they express their love and desire for the narcissist, theirs is a lonely existence as they sit remote waiting for that electronic arm to reach across the ocean for them.
The Intimate Partner Primary Source
It is highly unusual for the LDE to be the IPPS because the amount of fuel needed from the IPPS is such that the narcissist must have it as Proximate Fuel. Accordingly, even if you spend a lot of time interacting with the narcissist online and through the telephone (but you never meet), even if the narcissist calls you his girlfriend or her boyfriend, you will not be the IPPS.
There may however be an instance whereby you can be the LDE and the IPPS, albeit it is very rare. The description below fits a situation involving an LDE IPPS.
The Narcissist is a Mid-Range Elite. He lives alone. He has family in the city where he lives who he sees intermittently and various friends and colleagues who he sees quite often and therefore has a large bank of NISSs to draw on. He however interacts with one source every single day. He is in Europe and she is in the Middle East. They speak on the telephone frequently through the day. They Skype often and for hours at a time, watching the same films although in different continents, effectively going on virtual dates. They have never met. They see one another through Skype and FaceTime, they swap nude pictures, they engage in mutual masturbation, they even have Skype still going in the background when they fall asleep, one watching the other sleep often owing to the difference in time zones. They have never touched one another, never smelt one another, never felt skin on skin, yet spend hours with one another through the power of technology.
This is an LDE IPPS. The narcissist will frequently future fake about meeting in order to keep this person in place. The narcissist will also provide a golden period to this LDE IPPS and will not be cheating on the LDE IPPS with anybody else, but eventually it will happen.
With the in person IPPS, the overwhelming reason why devaluation always occurs is based on the in person IPPS´fuel becoming stale. This is less likely with the LDE IPPS, instead what will cause the devaluation (and just like the in person IPPS, the LDE IPPS will be devalued) is the fact the fuel provision will not be frequent or large enough because of the LDE factor.
The narcissist may end up meeting the LDE eventually but again this is rare. There is a reason why this person has been kept the LDE IPPS and it is because it suits the narcissist because he gains what he needs through the Prime Aims and does so whilst it is easy to exert this control. He does not need to do any chores, he does not need to put his arm around the victim to comfort him or her during the seduction period, he does not have to walk the dog for the LDE IPPS.
The LDE IPPS, just like the LDE IPSS is destined to remain so near through technology yet so far away owing to the lack of physical proximity and thus what they believed to be genuine and fulfilling is only going to cause them to become more and more lonely.
The Long Distance Empath will always be lonely.
35 thoughts on “Knowing the Narcissist : The Loneliness of the Long Distance Empath”
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If you knew the N at some point in real life, and now live in a different state, and reconnect, can you function as a long distance empath (the electronic communication, the sexting)? Or is this category reserved for *only* if you met online, and haven’t met in real life?
Also, do non narcs ever send dick pics?
You should not reconnect with a known narcissist.
Yes, non-narcissists send dick pics.
I think this is where I’ve gotten stuck in this purgatory that I’ve put myself in (not going no contact, the real kind). He did not seem like an N when we were younger. And now that we are older, I see it mostly when he is off the wagon with his alcoholism.
When he’s on the wagon, I don’t see these behaviors. In fact he apologizes and works really hard to change behaviors and do better. Then he falls off the wagon or screws around with his meds, and the devil incarnate comes out. And I end up feeling like sh*t, yet I can’t bring myself to cut the cord.
What factor do you identify as that which is stopping you from “cutting the cord”?
I think:
1) enjoying the communication during the “nice”/ on the wagon stretches.
2) not wanting to give up on him.
1. You do understand the “nice” segments are not genuine, you are being manipulated?
2. Not giving up is seeking to achieve something which cannot be achieved and is therefore illogical.
Regarding seeing the “nice” side and him going to AA as being manipulation, when I’m in devaluation and going through a disengagement/ discard, yes I see it.
When I’m in contact, I believe the con, although there’s this side of me that’s waiting for the other shoe to drop.
At the moment I’m in devaluation/ disengagement/ discard (2nd time), so I’m on escape attempt #2.
Hi, LemonUp–
Keep pressing forward with escape. The air is clean and the water is sweet out here.
Thank you, Allison! I’m in the rough beginning part (a few days out), but I’m trying :).
LemonUp,
Do you have the Triple Addiction Package from the knowledge Vault? It will help. These early days are horribly tough, this will help take the edge off.
HG has a 50% off Knowledge Vault packages just now. This is a key package to have and keep referring back to when you have a tough day.
Remember, this man is not your responsibility. His alcoholism is not your responsibility.
It does get easier. Stick with it.
Xx
Thank you, Truth Seeker. I do not have that package, but I have some other material saved from here, from the first time I was discarded.
Yeah, his mental health issues are way beyond the scope of anything I can deal with. He said some pretty horrible things to me prior to discard, and then blocked me and didn’t even give me a chance to respond. I feel like s**t, but I just need to take this as an opportunity to finally get away from him. I’ve been really delusional. :/
Thank you guys for your advice & help.
Hi LemonUp,
You haven’t been delusional. You’ve done similar to what many of us here have done. Fought to hold it all together, tried to heal the problem through supporting him and shown loyalty and determination through taking the ‘rough with the smooth’. All of those qualities are commendable.
All you have done is missed the signs of narcissism. That’s top and bottom of it really. They can’t be helped, his alcoholism is a sign of his own self entitlement to act as he pleases and to hell with the impact on you. He’ll never change. The cycle will never break. His ‘nice’ side is a manipulation.
You can’t fix him but you can remove yourself from him and heal yourself. There is no guilt in saving yourself when he can’t be saved.
You have come to the right place and have access to the right material here. You will feel better but it will take time and effort. You are already on your way, though I know it probably doesn’t feel like it.
I’m glad you commented. There are many people here who can help direct you to the information you need, so use that resource. Most of us have had empath guides at some point, I know I did!
Stick with it LemonUp, don’t let him steal any more time from you. 😉
Xx
Truth Seeker-
Well I think delusional in the sense that I knew things weren’t right, but I wanted him back in my life so badly. We were friends when we were younger, and when we reconnected years later, I was going through the unexpected loss of my best friend, and I was in such a state of shock and grief, I ignored a lot.
Self entitlement is right. And the cruel things he says when he gets like this, coupled with him hanging up and blocking me so I couldn’t respond. He knows that I have a terror of something like this happening (it’s happened once before), and he’s doing this anyways to be cruel.
Ironic thing is, I really can’t stand petulant, abusive little a**hole men. 😀 He’s the only one I let do this to me. He has had this hold over me because of my own addiction to him. It’s scary to me how much I’ve put up with.
Hi LemonUp,
That’s how he got to you. You were already suffering the loss of your best friend. You were bleeding into the water and he cruised on by and caught you when you were low.
I had something similar happen to me. It feels like they understand, like they are the only person who does, they gain our trust, they appear to support us and then we feel like we owe them. Addiction jumps in and says “Yes, you do owe him. He was there for you. Remember?”
He wasn’t there for you. He was there for himself, there for the Prime Aims like they all are.
I believe you, I don’t much like tantruming asshole men either. I put up with one too and for similar reasons. Whatever he does or doesn’t do to himself is on him, not you.
Stay strong and push through these early days, that owing feeling will start to subside when your Emotional Thinking starts to fall.
Xx
Truth Seeker-
Thank you for sharing that. It helps to hear similar stories, and to know that other people have been there and get it. It does seem so real (the “being there”) in the moment.
Having been discarded once before, I did have all of this info in the back of my head (I was here under a different name a few years ago), so this time around I’m not quite as shell shocked as the last time I was devalued and discarded. I just know I have to keep everything blocked and not look him up.
He also had no problem shelving and distancing himself as he saw fit when we are in contact. I’m the one who hasn’t been able to let go, and those behaviors have taken a toll on me.
The stuff he said to me and that discarding behavior was so vile though, I really hope this is my “bottom”.
Hi Lemon Up,
The stuff he said to you when he devalued and discarded you was just words. Those words were necessary to get what he needed from you. HG commented a while ago that he doesn’t actually believe the devaluing words he says but he believes that they are necessary. Your narc is unaware. He will believe what he says in the moment he says it. But five minutes later he could just as easily believe the opposite. The same applies with all the nice things he said. Those words were necessary to get what he needed from you, that’s all.
We really believe words because we are honest, but with the narc, words, good or bad, they’re just words. If we can understand that, then everything they ever said becomes utterly irrelevant.
So don’t fret about the things he said as he discarded you. Don’t give them value that they don’t deserve. Set about forgetting instead. When that scene replays in your mind, push it away. Think about something or someone who does have meaning and who deserves your thoughts.
I listened to these earlier. They’re excellent. Next time that scene plays in your mind, push it out and listen to these instead!
https://youtu.be/pXUjNGmF4bE?si=zJcaatQ42R7RpYNG
https://youtu.be/k81JMEco6nc?si=aziE1rbSPY3X_c7P
Xx
Truth Seeker-
I think you are absolutely right. When that conversation started I was in idealization, and the “splitting” and discard happened so fast, my head was spinning. My mind keeps going back to it to try to find what I said to trigger the devaluation, but I guess me doing that to myself is part of the abuse cycle.
And about giving the words (and him) value he doesn’t deserve, a friend of my said something similar. He said I keep giving him chances he doesn’t deserve, and he has no problem bouncing right back to a**hole. I keep reminding myself that this is true too. It will never end if I ever have contact again.
And I appreciate the material to fill my head with instead, when I start ruminating. I’ll listen to those videos tonight.
Hi LemonUp,
Reading your last comment, I wasn’t sure what you meant.
Did you go through a period of sustained devaluation before disengagement happened?
Or,
Were you in the golden period, then he suddenly turned on you, insulted you and left?
The reason I ask is to figure out if you were an IPPS who was disengaged from, or if you were an IPSS who was given a very brutal corrective devaluation followed by being placed on the shelf.
Understanding that will help you when predicting what the narcissist will do next therefore would help you better protect yourself.
I might have misinterpreted what you meant in your last comment!
I found a couple of more targeted videos for you, based on what you mentioned in your previous comments. Keeping you busy!
https://youtu.be/bCNp5DIc6K4?si=1JV00RgC0hLkxoAQ
https://youtu.be/4tU-101UAws?si=q-vMzmG63dVKx9BI
I used to find the weekends tougher. Hope you are doing ok.
Xx
Truth Seeker-
We live in different states, and I think I’m an IPSS, but I also believe I’ve always been a candidate IPPS. We’ve known each other for years.
From the conversation we had and some of the things he said, looking back, I think he’s been going back and forth in his head between devaluing and idealizing me, for a while now.
When we started talking on the phone the other week, it sounded like I was in idealization when the conversation started, but then I said something that set him off, and the hanging up and nastiness may in fact have been a corrective devaluation and shelving. I do spend a lot of time on the shelf as it is.
However, he’s off the wagon with the alcoholism, and the last time something like this happened, I was disengaged from for a year.
I will watch those videos too :).
Hi LemonUp
I see what you mean now. The long distance aspect does confuse things I think too. I was ensnared by an online narc and still can’t confidently say what position I was in and when. There are aspects that fit certain positions within the fuel matrix and then other aspects that don’t. I suppose you could call me an online NISS who in between annual shelvings was engaged with for hours and hours each day and night. I was often painted white, but have a tendency to threaten control thanks to my innate sarcasm, cynicism and Truthseeker trait so then I switched to black in an instant and I’d get devaluing comments and crazy messages. I also met him a few times so I’m not strictly an online empath. I escaped whilst on the shelf. Suffice to say, I get it, long distance isn’t always clear!
What I will say though, is the online ensnarement was the worst of all of them for me. So, your sadness is real, your confusion and emotional thinking is real. I know these early days are really tough. In some ways with modern technology, everpresence can be everywhere without them even being physically present. There is a roundabout close to where I live. I remember queuing at that roundabout one day having such a funny and lovely phone conversation with him. Post escape I couldn’t go anywhere via that roundabout, he was so far in my head. Long distance is just, different I think.
Stay busy, that’s the best you can do for yourself in the early days. When you can’t be busy, hit the Ultra playlists and get stuck in to any video that resonates with you. Bit by bit the information does start to take hold, things will start to make more sense.
Your friend sounds like a wise owl!
Xx
Yeah the feelings are real. Interesting about the phone
conversation and the rotary bringing on an emotional flashback. With the long distance thing, you’re in this simulated reality, but it feels so real, and the feelings can be very intense for sure.
Technically I don’t think I’m a LDE either since we were friends from school, and always loosely kept in touch. Years ago we exchanged phone numbers and this back forth stuff started, and at first I really had no idea what I was getting myself into, but any red flags that were there, I ignored. At times I thought I was a shelf NISS, but can you ever really be a NISS (or “friends”) with a somatic (which I believe he is, of a lesser variety)? In which case I’m thinking I’ve mostly been a candidate IPPS or IPSS, often of the shelf variety.
But you’re right, with the distance thing, you don’t know what else is going on in the fuel matrix. We don’t have a single person in common anymore, so I don’t really know how bad things are with him in real life (with the substance abuse & his various addictions), or what’s going on in his fuel matrix.
I listened to the videos you posted and they were very helpful. They cleared some things up for me. And I appreciate you taking the time to talk me through it. The first couple of weeks were rough, and the support is appreciated. 🤗
LemonUp,
“Can you ever really be a NISS with a Somatic of the Lesser variety?” Damn good question! Only if he hasn’t managed to find you yet? Haha!
Yes, that’s a very good point. It is a simulated reality and my online narc was very good at vague. He would suggest, insinuate, create and half say things so I never really knew where I was. He crafted a world filled with what ifs at a time where what ifs sounded pretty damn good to me!
If you are a secondary source, then it’s more likely you have been shelved. Disengagement is rare. Mine would disappear for months then show back up, so use this time to get your No Contact up, running and absolutely bomb proof. It is a cycle that will repeat and repeat if you allow it to. It needs to be broken and you already have narc free days under your belt now. 😉
HG posted about his book Exorcism earlier today. That’s probably my favourite of HG’s books because reading that was a real turning point for me. There are parts of that book that really hit home and made me look at that ensnarement entirely differently. Made me look at him and what he was offering entirely differently. From how you sound to me, that would be one I would recommend for you.
I’m glad the videos helped. I’ve discovered that the answers to most of the questions and concerns we have are tucked away in a video somewhere!
https://youtu.be/r1laeIBWR_M?si=maE4bSfkRPjlwiN7
https://youtu.be/tQDWGLJbQhQ?si=0v9KOpWnikuYLZRo
Keep up the hard work 🙂
Xx
Truth Seeker-
Yeah, I started to feel like those women who strike up pen pal “relationships” with guys in prison :D. I guess reality was so painful for me (it was one thing after another after my best friend died), and during his “nice” moments, it did feel good to have an old friend back in my life.
Unfortunately it was also intertwined with the shelving and not so nice periods. I watched the 2 videos, and the one on alcohol really confused me a few years back, because he did seem to get better at one point when he was in recovery. It didn’t last, though, and he’s not in recovery now. The Jekyll & Hyde split is out full force. It doesn’t even matter to me anymore if he’s a narc when his alcoholism is active, or if he’s a narc in general..there’s a lot going on with him, and bottom line is he’s abusive and I need to stay away from him, end of story, is where I’ve settled.
The second video, I see myself in that for sure. We hear about negative projections, but it can be true in reverse, too. Especially with the long distance thing. Your mind just fills in the blanks about what they are doing, and it’s easy to give them the benefit of the doubt when you’re not there to see what’s really going on.
Thanks for the book recommendation. Also for mentioning the corrective devaluation followed by shelving. The more I think about it, the more it makes sense that that might be it. I think he’s experiencing some sort of fuel crisis, and I said something that threatened his control (and I was not functioning as I “should”), and he went straight to punishing me with the big guns. He can go for a loooooong time with the shelving. It was one of the things that made me suspect he might be a narc, how he can turn it on and off like that, and not respond to messages as he sees fit..
Hi LemonUp,
Your point about writing to prisoners isn’t far off the mark you know. The dynamic works similarly online. You see the best of them. They will fulfil the role that’s required because actually, it takes minimum effort for them to do so. Most of it, is words and words are free. They don’t have any of the relationship ‘tasks’ to carry out, they can just create and imagine, put forward those scenarios that make us laugh or feel that warmth when they say something ‘thoughtful’ or ‘supportive’. The only difference really is that we didn’t know what they were when we began the interaction. Even then though, loneliness is the common denominator.
We get conditioned to the ping of the message, conditioning is huge online. We fall into specific times when communication always takes place. For me I was in a different timezone so often I would be chatting through nighttime hours. Those hours are the most vulnerable, even further from the day to day mundane. My most relaxed, my most receptive, that’s before the sleep deprivation factors in. Ever done online shopping at night? You buy more, or I do. I’m more imaginative, more in fantasy land about where I might go and where I might wear x or y item haha! I do think people are more receptive at certain times and he subconsciously or coincidentally was using that to advantage. So you’re right, we imagine, fantasise and fill in the gaps. They have it easy, we are doing most of the work for them.
They do have an uncanny knack of catching us at our lowest ebb. You were grieving a loss, guard down, vulnerable, hurting. If someone helps us to feel better and break away from the reality of that, it’s natural to want to escape it. Escapism and fantasy is their specialty. Very cruel how that works. Come at me when I’m on my game asshole, not when I’m wounded and you have the advantage.
You are entirely correct. It really doesn’t matter what he is. What matters is that he’s abusive and whilst you are focussed on him, you aren’t focussed on you, you aren’t moving forward.
That’s about to change. As Allison said, life is good on the other side!
https://youtu.be/GGDQchunFes?si=gr_ePTsWuqa65LmT
https://youtu.be/4rk66DQyVmo?si=acnzC3DWfD-XrCSN
https://youtu.be/8LOA2bBaJdU?si=EBY5wFHggqjhmKFS
Xx
Truth Seeker-
It’s true, the texting communication does take on this life of its own, and you become conditioned in that intermittent reinforcement stimulus/ response, stimulus/ no response cycle.
I appreciate you sharing your experience as well, I can definitely see similarities, and can relate to a lot of what you said . You’re right, it’s easy to say things in the moment, especially when you are off the shelf and they are going after the Prime Aims, which in his case I think are sexual in nature. That always seems to be in the background, and I seriously doubt we could have been “friends”. Wishful thinking on my part.
And totally about buying things at night sometimes that you might not have otherwise. I do that too.
This is week 3, and I’m getting used to the quiet. I’m also listening to the links you (and Allison) posted, and reading the comments in the videos also. (The Narcissist and Alcohol comments in the video were particularly interesting). Everything is blocked, and I’m not triggering myself by looking him up. Feeling like I dodged a huge bullet, honestly.
Hi LemonUp,
Week three is brilliant, well done! Just keep going, one day at a time. You’ll likely have ups and downs so just accept that those feelings will happen and it’s part of the process whilst you begin reconciling things in your own mind.
When you are feeling good, make sure that your No Contact is as it should be. No channels of communication left open, everything locked down. This provides space, no messages to throw you off track when you are doing so well.
Online narc and I had a joint playlist. Both of us would add songs to it, if you have something similar, it needs to go. Delete and start a new playlist for yourself. It’s like a smoker removing the emergency cigarette packet from the house! They do it so when they are on a tough day it’s not easy to give in. Similar thing here. Looking at old messages or pictures is very tempting at the start so make sure they are gone.
There’s no reason to remember this person, he was a user and will remain so. No souvenirs!
Some days we aren’t always in the mood for a video that directly relates to our own situation but we still need a dose of HG medicine. If this is the case HG’s Tinder Swindler series is excellent. You still take your medicine but it will be less specific to your own experience.
The Tinder Swindler is still available on Netflix, it’s fascinating to watch. Then afterwards you can listen to HG’s analysis. It has a separate playlist o the Ultra channel so it’s all there ready to go. It will help fill up some mental space if you feel you need to.
I’m glad you are doing well LemonUp.
Xx
Truth Seeker- will do and very helpful.
Thank you!
You’re very welcome LemonUp.
Xx
Hi, LemonUp–
Have you viewed the videos on the Emotional Battle on the new channel? Those will be very helpful if you haven’t to explain what you’re going through and what you must do. They’ll put your responses in perspective and help you regain your power. If you’ve already seen them–watch them again! I have and they really gave me strength and a big helping of logic.
Allison- I have read the Emotional Sea
articles but have not seen the videos. I will check those out. I’m spending my evenings listening to videos, so I appreciate the recommendation. Thank you!
Hi, LemonUp–
“It doesn’t even matter to me anymore if he’s a narc when his alcoholism is active, or if he’s a narc in general.”
I wish I were with you to say this because it might come off harshly in writing, but I’m concerned for your well being. You don’t mean by that you think he’s a narcissist only when he’s drinking or that he’s a narcissist due to his alcoholism, do you? Are you doing his blame shifting for him? I understand the impulse, but it only makes things more tangled for you and it’s only been a few days. I hope I’ve misunderstood.
Allison-
We did know each other when we were younger, and he didn’t have the traits of the narcissism back then (from what I recall), or the alcohol abuse. From previous articles & comments, if the “cake is baked” by age 13 or 14 or so (with the narcissism being “set” in the personality by then), and knowing each other and being good friends teens- early 20s, I think I would have noticed if something was “off”.
From what I understand (and I had a discussion with HG about the topic a few years back), not everyone who is a substance abuser is a narc. You really have to weed out the substance and have a period of sustained abstinence to see if the narcissistic traits are still there or not to be sure. So his improved behavior (or so it seemed, as there’s the whole distance thing now so I’m wasn’t entirely sure what he was really doing) in his period of recovery, coupled with my experiences with him when we were younger (when he was just kind of “normal” and nice to hang out with), did make me question whether or not the alcoholism was driving the narcissist behaviors.
However, he relapsed a while back, and I’ve frankly given up on him and I’m out. I think the him that I remember from late teens/ early 20s is long gone. 🙁
I often look in the mirror and cry.
Princess: hugs!
Why?