Knowing the Narcissist : Sex and the Narcissist
No holds barred and no strings attached
The only unnatural sex act is that which you cannot perform
Read about how the narcissist views and uses sex and how you are central in that
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35 thoughts on “Knowing the Narcissist : Sex and the Narcissist”
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Hi, WN–
There was no local law that said people couldn’t get together and do what they did, unless she was charging the men which she didn’t. I’m no legal scholar but I think the civil and criminal laws are a codification of social norms–in the case of sex among consenting adults the social norms through the legal edifice say we can and perhaps should all feel disgusted by certain acts, tut tut about them, and speak freely against or in support or be neutral (such sentiments can be addressed through a contract) but it’s not a police matter except under special circumstances–if things get criminal as defined by the system. It’s handy for certain types of narcissists in terms of abuse to do things which might be looked down upon and may be a problem in a divorce as a social norm violation if discovered, but not illegal and punishable by criminal penalties. If Lily is being influenced by narcissists or is one herself, I also think the discussion of civil/criminal law in concert with social norms is an interesting one.
I’m thinking of Amber Heard’s spoor here as well.
The law as the voice of society seems to say here: “We can each have an opinion, but whatever they do, that’s their thing. Just don’t bring cash, kids, or animals into it, keep the blinds drawn, please, and observe the noise ordinance.”
It seems to me the Airbnb contract, as a contract, was limited in scope and less ambiguous. It named specific activities which the parties agreed were not to be engaged in within the property, including both prostitution (criminal and socially icky) and filming porn (non-criminal but just socially icky). She clearly violated the non-criminal and just socially icky terms. And I think my concern for the owner of the flat isn’t out of place. He seemed morally alarmed and I don’t recall him mentioning being worried about rental income–I was because I see him as a nice guy who now has a problem. He had a nice flat, he was renting it out, he thought things were fine, but now look at this crap. I don’t think he deserved that treatment. The space has become infamous and is no longer socially normal or neutral, at least for a time.
And social norms are very fluid, even in one time and place, which does add to the complexity when discussing them alongside laws and contracts.
With regard to Bonnie Blue & Lily Phillips, my guess is that Bonnie Blue is an Upper Lesser Type A Somatic Narcissist and Lily Phillips is Narcissistic.
HG confirmed that Bonnie Blue is a Narcissist. We can exclude Greater right away. I think we can also exclude the Mid-Range group too due the absence of a facade. A Mid-Range Narcissist would want portray an image of a good wife or good mom. If she is Mid-Range, then Lower Mid-Range is the likeliest outcome. Bonnie is very obvious about her sexual promiscuity. She has too much success to be a Lower or Middle Lesser Narcissist. ULA seems like the most appropriate outcome.
For Lily Phillips, sleeping with 101 men in one day is the antithesis of Normal behavior. We can exclude Normal. She is way to self-absorbed and her narcissistic traits are way to strong for an Empath. An Empath with strong narcissistic traits exists, but would operate with substantial emotional empathy and those narcissistic traits would be kept in check. She doesn’t seem to exhibit high emotional empathy.
Narcissist is a likely outcome. She is vain and self-centered. She objectifies men. They are simply a means to an end and views them as simply a number in a sexual queue. However, she did show some self-reflection after sleeping with 100+ men. When she has been challenged on her behavior, it doesn’t appear to be a threat to control like it is for Bonnie. As HG mentioned in his recent video, she appears to be controlled by someone else and is somewhat vulnerable. Due to these reasons, I don’t think Narcissist is the correct outcome. Narcissistic seems to be the most appropriate outcome.
These are just my thoughts but I could be wrong. What are your thoughts on those assessments? Anyone is welcome to respond.
Make sense to me.
Honestly, I don’t understand why anyone would do this. It sounds like it would be uncomfortable at the time and make you sore afterwards. If you’re going to be sore afterwards, shouldn’t it be for an amazing experience?
Viol,
I was thinking the same things, doesn’t make sense and 100% not something I would even think about doing. Xx
Agreed Viol.
I wonder if she’ll find her prince. She’s well above the median for women in lifetime partners. I think she has a good chance!
Hi, Mandalorian–
I think it’s possible Lily is being controlled–I understand her own mother runs the finances for her company, and it seems both parents might be encouraging her. I’m sure she has a whole entourage who depend on her financially, and I can imagine the OF people could be pushing her as well in order to draw other young women onto the platform. If they can use people like her as a model of financial success, naive women will think that her kind of earnings are common and easy to get. Actually, it appears that to stand out on OF one has to perform more and more extreme acts, and the financial rewards come if you’re useful bait to bring on other performers. I don’t think the math is mathing for the 1000 in a day, though.
The entire set up is certainly not empathic no matter the individuals. I can see how a normal or an empath caught up in all that would have their empathy eroded, possibly long term. I hate to imagine what working in that industry does to your head, no matter what side of the camera you’re on. It makes me wonder if, similar to the cultural messages about love, whether certain activist messages about female empowerment also have many narcissists behind the scenes.
Totally agree with you Allison about her being controlled. It looks like one of or both her parents do not have her best interest and are looking to capitalize on the financial gain of their daughter. It’s very self-serving of them to do that. It could be that one of or both of her parents are Narcissists, but who knows. Narcissists could be operating behind the scenes like you mentioned.
Lily went on a Podcast recently and one of the individuals on the show cheated/screwed around with Lily right in front of his girlfriend. This whole thing is pretty vile (at least in my mind it is).
She’s a peach, our Lily. And she’s surrounded by sensible people with good counsel. I see nothing but happiness ahead for everyone involved.
The documentary cameraman was audibly nauseous when he filmed the aftermath. I understand your reaction. It’s all pretty astonishing to me. But I feel so ambivalent because I consume porn–not OF but other things. This stunt leaves me really flat, but I do watch some pretty raw stuff with an angel on one of my shoulders and a devil on the other. Sometimes I can’t believe what I’ve just gotten off to, so I feel some sympathy for the people. And yet…
I’m not sure how I would have reacted in the cameraman’s place. Being in the room was probably pretty intense, so I would have had a similar visceral response, I think. Then I might’ve sat beside Lily while she was crying and said, “Well, dear. There is such a thing as too many dicks.”
Mandalorian,
My thoughts?
I am tired of women talking about other women with regard to this topic. The opinions are repetitive and have been said before, many times. It gets boring. And it seems to be counterproductive in general.
I’d like to hear from men talking about other men.
For example, why do men flock to what BB and LP offer? Why do they willingly and happily participate while watching a young woman destroy herself? Destroy her physical health. Destroy her mental health. Destroy her reputation. Destroy her future prospects. Destroy her status in society.
Do men actually hate women?
Why do they slink away in silence and anonymity like pathetic thieves in the night?
Why are they embarrassed to be seen and recognised but not embarrassed enough not to do it?
Why do they blame everything and everyone – i.e. the woman, the culture, the media, the internet, porn – except for themselves, their decisions, their choices, and their deviant sexual issues?
I would like men to discuss these things.
I am a woman and therefore, obviously, I can’t answer these questions.
Do men “flock”? As a percentage of men on the planet the number who have had sex/sought to do so with BB and LP is very, very small indeed.
They do not see her destroying herself when they are having sex with her, rather
1. She advertised what she wanted, therefore many will think “she wanted this and she is attractive, so why not”
2. She holds herself out as being empowered
3. Many of the participants are very young and have very little experience of the world, I doubt they have even come across someone destroying themselves in this way before in order to think “Hang on, all of us pulling a train on this woman are destroying her, even though she says she wants this.” It simply is not going to register with them.
4. Yes, some men hate women. Some women hate men.
5. They “slink away” because they lack the platform that BB and LP have and they are the individuals making it about them, not the men they sleep with. The men are simply being used by the women.
6. Having sex with a woman is not a deviant sexual issue.
Yes, men flock to sites like OnlyFans and other porn websites. The ‘industry’ (for want of a better word) of online porn sites and content has increased many times over since the start of the internet.
Considering Lily Phillips and her 100 men in a day stunt, she has had a lot of publicity in mainstream media. A documentary has been made about her as well as podcasts, interviews, news articles, etc.
Her stunt has become prominent and widely discussed because it is unusual. There could only be a limited number of men – i.e. 100 – who participated. There were still this number who participated though and it appears the take-up was quickly filled.
What kind of man wants to line up with 99 other men for five minutes (or less) with the same girl?
I don’t think many of the participants were very young. I watched the documentary and one or two of the men agreed to speak although they requested anonymity. One of them said he flew in from a different country, stayed in a hotel for the duration of his travels and also had to undergo a health check before his five minutes.
I don’t think these were young teenage boys. I think they were men with some experience who were long-time viewers of LP on OF.
If you have seen the documentary, you would have seen that the men did slink away anonymously. They did not want to be filmed or on camera at all. Even the men who agreed to speak for the documentary would only do so anonymously.
Men do slink away in silence. In almost any porn video or videos such as the ones BB and LP make, the men do not show their faces. The women are completely naked in full view doing whatever they’re doing and the men are anonymous. It’s not about the platform or that women are using men.
The men protect themselves and their reputations. They do not want exposure because they are fully aware that it would harm them in other aspects of their life.
The kind of sex that BB and LP are offering is not just “having sex with a woman.” Lining up in a queue of 100 men is not simply “having sex with a woman.” It’s abnormal. And it is deviant. It would disgust the majority of people, both women and men.
The way I see it, there is a disconnect (in the women and men) between their minds and their bodies. In their minds they think it is an experience, a way to make money, an opportunity to have sex. It’s not normal for their bodies though. It’s not what their bodies are designed to do or how their bodies will react in a healthy way.
This is why Lily Phillips was distressed afterwards. This is why men hide their identities. It’s also why the majority of people talking about it speak in very negative terms.
“I would like men to discuss these things.”
You want the men to talk about other men. You want them to answer for whether or not they hate women. The questions leave them without many options but to have their noses rubbed into it. Do you want answers or to punish those being questioned? Do you want to control what they talk about, or are these suggestions from the box to break the ice? Do they have the option not to talk? Do you want them to sit, process, and verbalize about their feelings–like women?
Even I feel interrogated reading the questions, and I never touched the girl.
Allison,
“Do you want them to sit, process, and verbalize about their feelings–like women?”
Yes.
Like in that Gillette commercial? Or one of those retreats where the guys sit in a drum circle, eat chickpeas, and hug?
What about the art of manliness?
I love women, but being around guys is great. They have really good qualities. I’ve never had a man look at me and plead, “What are you thinking?” when I’m just trying to sit there and eat steak. We just sit there and eat steak. Don’t take that from me.
I’m a female empath. I run emotionally hot. I need this!
Allison,
“What about the art of manliness?”
From this and other comments, I see you have a tendency to generalise.
I would like you to ask Gisele Pelicot about “the art of manliness”.
Considering the attitudes and decisions of her husband and the men who raped her, I really don’t think “manliness” has a blanket definition that can be described as “art”.
Considering also the unmoderated website that enabled Dominique Pelicot to boast about drugging his wife and provided him with anonymity to invite strangers to rape her, it is blatantly obvious that you give men in general way too much credit.
The website – an unmoderated free chat site with a sexualised nature – was implicated in killings, hate crimes, child abuse, and sexual abuse cases including the horrific crimes inflicted on Gisele Pelicot.
According to Wikipedia, the website “was said to have been connected to more than 23,000 French criminal cases between 2021 and 2024 and was shut down in June 2024.”
If one unmoderated website enabled anonymous men to perpetrate this many crimes in only three years, then it would appear that you are idealising so-called “manliness”.
Allison,
In another example of your tendency to generalise, your comment is an insult to female empaths as well.
If we see what BB and LP offer in more general terms, meaning no-strings sex, or sex with somebody they know nothing about apart from their name, if that, men do indeed flock towards it. A basic explanation for such behaviour is, because they can. As they say, why buy the cow if you can get the milk for free, or as good as free? If women offer their bodies so cheaply, they should not complain when men take them up on it.
Let me introduce a slightly different case: Robert Red puts out an advertisement that he plans to have sex with 100 women in a single day. He finds enough willing candidates and publishes a video about it afterwards. Which of the following reactions can we expect?
1. “He is a disgusting pervert!”
2. “What a stud! He must have some stamina!”
3. “He is using those women!”
4. “The women are using him!”
5. “The women are disgusting!”
6. “He must be a narcissist! His behaviour is the antithesis of normal. He is way too self-absorbed and his narcissistic traits are way too strong for an Empath.”
7. “Why do the women willingly and happily participate while watching a young man destroy himself? Destroy his physical health. Destroy his mental health. Destroy his reputation. Destroy his future prospects. Destroy his status in society.”
With porn being part of the entertainment industry, I can see it being very attractive to narcissists, especially Somatics. I’m inferring from your examples that there is some unfairness you see in how we view women versus men in terms of sex. I think the views differ but I think there are good reasons for that.
I’ve considered the case of Robert Red. I would still consider him likely to be a narcissist, or at least to have strong traits. Even with assistance he’d benefit from a hyper sexualized outlook, a necessity I’d think. And he’d really need to work to look the part and to view sex as masturbation so he could attend to his angles. He’d also need to be swinging some real lumber to make a name for himself (the Ron Jeremy’s of the world notwithstanding). Having been victimized by narcissists it’s a challenge for me not to paint people with it as almost a slur. I’m trying to be more neutral and to see the traits and condition in terms of how they might be of benefit or not.
There are some reasons I don’t think it would work out, but the main one is for the most part the man in heterosexual porn is just a prop. It wouldn’t sell that Robert would be front of the box (or the thumbnail) because by and large nobody is there to see him specifically. I think it would have to be that the women are the main draw and probably performers because it’s no flex to be able to catch a random dick, so that many free women wouldn’t care to answer the ad. Unless I don’t know porn. Or women. It might make a good experiment. I see lots of feminist activists showing up from both sides of the issue. Probably narcissists hijacking a social cause.
I’ll try to work this out. I’ll see if I’ve got your point.
I don’t see enough women wanting to watch it for it to be profitable. I don’t think it’s a popular enough fantasy among women to be one of a hundred. Besides, the women wouldn’t get enough time on him to get much out of it if they’re keeping to the schedule. Maybe some men might watch it, but again I think they’re more into the fantasy of one or a number of women getting trains run on them or one man with maybe two women.
If the women were performers (as would be likely) they’d also probably do a video amongst themselves instead–that would sell. And having that many women would drive up the cost, on top of paying old Bob, so why do it? There are some male performers who have made a name for themselves, but they still prefer to pair up (or quadruple up, etc.) with known female properties, with the odd newcomer stuffed in. Profit.
I don’t think we’d get to the point of judging Bob or applying a “double standard” or whatever. The reason the 100 men stunt (and more) is tried and true is because men and women are different, they have different fantasies, and they are evaluated differently and it’s not entirely for social constructivist reasons. I would say that most men (most) don’t have to turn down a little strange from attractive women every day of the week, so there are enough of those inexperienced and otherwise driven enough to go for it even if they’re number 20 or 86. Not so for poor Sir Red.
My point is one of the reasons I think people judge Lily and the same observations wouldn’t apply to Mr. Red is because it’s much easier for most women to get sex when compared to most men because: pussy. Not patriarchy. A hundred women in a day would be quite a feat, perhaps assisted by Big Pharma if it were even possible (I’ve never seen it.) So, wrong or right, it would be some sort of achievement and not a diminution of him. The porno sweet spot for male performers seems to be below 8 women, hovering around 2 to 3 (just an informal observation). That range seems to whet the male fantasy of multiple women at once just fine.
So, I don’t think Mr. Red would have much luck. But it’s less to do with the patriarchy than it does with the desirability to certain kinds of men of a cute woman willing to get down for whatever reason. But I could be wrong. Maybe I haven’t watched enough porn. Back to work, I guess.
Hi all:
My son once told me half the young women in the neighborhood are on Only Fans. It’s economics. The girls see an easy way to make money. Oh, you read about the ease they make it, the way they can get rich etc…etc… etc… most of them don’t but they want to get rich quick. And I had a law firm in Vegas and I am licensed there. I would listen to the woman making 350,000 a year from legal prostitution and they felt GOOD about themselves as they made money. Let’s not take money out of the equation. Yes, some have bad childhoods. Some have low self esteem. Some may be abused by others. And anyone forced into it is a victim. But the desire to get rich quick without having to sacrifice or pay your dues or work another job…etc… is the mindset of many. Only Fans. Personally I don’t see a need to decriminalize it. If forced, hell yeah. But the morals are equal if voluntary. Women sell sex. Men buy. Equal. Values? It’s sex for money. Men do it too and women and men buy. Seems to me there are other ways to get sex and where is the intimacy? I never read or saw Lily. I don’t know her case. But the days of a desperate young poor woman selling herself for sex are now replete with a young woman hungry for get rich quick money too. I don’t judge. They can do what they want. It’s their body. Their choice. But, would I want my daughter to do it “ no. “ I like Pamela Anderson and when they asked her mother what she thought about her daughter starting out in playboy. She said “ well no one asked me.” She was fine with it. Her daughter found a way to get rich and famous. Part of me liked her response and acceptance of her child even though I would want something else for my child. So the oldest profession in the world is a complex one. I wish them all well even if I would never want their lives. And those forced, well the ones forcing need to be put in hell or locked away forever. To the others with the money on their mind and their mind on their money, good luck!
You know, I actually think the world’s oldest profession is flint knapper. I wonder if he was a psychopath.
Only Fans? All the adult woman do is brag about making money. Many don’t. In Vegas the sake, Ohio Kade 350,000 this year. Some do. For me, who cares? Two adult people who give cash for sex. No one is a child. No be is pointing a gun at their heads. Two consenting adults. Out for money the easy way.
AP,
Your comment is a disingenuous ‘whatabout’ tactic. Flipping the narrative is pointless in this situation.
If a man had sex with 100 women in a single day, it would be a supernatural medical phenomenon.
Or, there would be empty packets of Viagra ankle deep in the room where the stunt took place. The empty pill packets would be part of the litter and mess that made the cameraman gag in the documentary about Lily Phillips.
His gagging reaction was laughed at by Lily who said, “hahaha Is that real?” to which Josh Pieters, the documentary maker, brushed it off and said, “Yeah, he’s not good with smells.”
Thank goodness for the cameraman. The cameraman was the most sensible and ‘human’ person in the room.
Who in their right mind would be “good” with such a disgusting stunt and its aftermath?
WiserNow,
your oh-so-sensible “human” cameraman was obviously good enough with the whole thing to take the job.
WN,
I generalize when I’m speaking in terms of generalities. We were at one point talking about “men” as a group and how you wanted them to speak and think. That kind of population view requires generalization. At that level, I tend to think in terms of the normative curve.
I don’t see why I should paint all men with the same brush as the rapists you mentioned, or masculinity itself with such a crime. I believe there is an art of manliness just as there is an art of womanliness. I even enjoy a newsletter called The Art of Manliness! But I digress. If we wanted to be fair, then I would have to ask about the art of womanliness and use Mary Kay Letourneau, Lucy Letby, Aileen Wuornos and other such women as examples the see what their victims thought. Unfortunately, most of their victims are dead (leaving shattered survivors) and the living one is probably permanently screwed in the head.
I prefer women as partners, but I don’t hate men. I do hate some particular men who have earned it, and I would dig doing terrible things to them. I don’t love all women. Some of them are assholes who should be tied to a flimsy splintered raft and dropped into the Pacific. But manhood–I don’t see an inherent evil in it nor in general manly behavior. In fact, I credit manly qualities with many things that bring excellence and good into the world. To get through the world I ascribe to many of them myself and try to live by them: some are stoicism, logic, reason. Controlling my emotions. Nurturing my ambition. Doing what must be done even if it doesn’t make everyone happy. Even if it brings pain. Even if it makes someone cry. You know, being fucking Clint Eastwood.
Do all men exhibit all the manly virtues? No. Are the virtues absolutely exclusive to men? No. Are men imperfect? Yes. The same and more can be said of women as a class of beings.
I may have been a bit scornful to you, though. I asked if you wanted men to act like women as a sharp dig, but you admitted you do. The truth is, if I had my druthers, women as a group would act a little more like men.
But, I generalize.
Hello AP,
Happy New Year, I hope your 2025 is peaceful and prosperous.
You are right, the cameraman still took the job therefore he must have been ok with filming the documentary at some level.
The comments here about LP make me see that there is a lot of pushback against my views. That has made me reflect and ask myself why that may be.
I think it may have something to do with some of the words I have used which convey strong negative feelings, such as ‘disgusting’, ‘deviant’, ‘sexual issues’, ‘horrific’, ‘destroy herself’, etc. I have considered my own reaction and why I have used these particular words.
To me, LP’s stunt is horrific and disgusting. That is my honest reaction. I don’t see why I should sugarcoat my reaction. Why would I need to hide my honest thoughts and sanitise my words, making them politically correct in order to couch it in bland, non-judgemental words?
The reason I said the cameraman was sensible and ‘human’ for gagging and having a visceral nauseous reaction is because I can relate to his strong instinctive and visceral reaction more than I can relate to anyone else in the documentary.
That is my reaction.
I can intellectualise like anyone else here and contemplate that the stunt was undertaken by consenting adults and it’s all about paying for sex and it’s about the entertainment industry and it’s what many young women are doing and LP says it makes her empowered and other views and opinions.
To me, LP’s stunt with 100 strangers is disgusting. It doesn’t even come close to ‘normal sex’ and therefore, my reaction to the stunt doesn’t have anything to do with my thoughts about ‘normal sex’. To me, LP’s stunt and ‘normal sex’ are two totally different things.
I think it’s fair to say that I can have an honest visceral reaction just like others can have their own reactions.
Hi, AP–
“…your oh-so-sensible “human” cameraman was obviously good enough with the whole thing to take the job.”
True, everybody had to be okay enough with it to be there. And the cameraman was there to film the documentary, not the activities. Journalists and documentarians go into settings all the time where people are doing things they might find objectionable, and they’re just there to do a job. I get the impression that lots of people, including the participants, have been surprised at the impact of what went on. I felt like the cameraman spoke for the viewers of this fiasco with his impromptu retching.
I hear she’s banned from Airbnb now. Violation of contract. The owner of the flat and some in the neighborhood seemed pretty shook because some people thought the visitors were workmen. Also, the flat was known as a party rental, but this crossed a line from both the contract and social norms perspectives. No empathy in sight there and a lack of boundary recognition.
And I get it. I was wondering about that when I found out where they did it. The owner is now in an odd, infamous spot, including income wise, and the market for the place might now be full of weirdos. If I wanted a rental, even for a party, I’d feel squick about going in there. No thanks, not even at a discount.
It’s as if through knowing about it we’ve all been sullied, like the poor cameraman. It is truly viral, as in we’ve all caught a bug. Quite a feat for one so young. Too bad.
Allison,
“I hear she’s banned from Airbnb now. Violation of contract. The owner of the flat and some in the neighborhood seemed pretty shook because some people thought the visitors were workmen. Also, the flat was known as a party rental, but this crossed a line from both the contract and social norms perspectives.”
“And I get it.”
I think it says something about the world we live in when the ‘violation’ of an Airbnb rental contract can be understood and considered important from a “social norms perspective”.
Yet, a gross violation of ‘social norms’ that affect the physical and mental health of those involved; the violation of male/female relationships and role models; the violation of parent/child relationships and role models; and the violation of norms surrounding what constitutes ‘entertainment’ and ‘social media content’ are all ambiguous and considered with a laissez-faire attitude.
The violation of a rental contract is considered “crossing a line” in clear and understood terms, while the violations of social norms that have generally been established over centuries and thousands of generations are unclear and ambiguous.
Moral and spiritual ‘social norms’ have been so eroded in recent times that it appears that people can only understand important social ‘norms’ where the prospect of them earning income from their physical property is threatened.
I find that interesting.
Hello The Mandalorian,
With BB, it’s all clear and pretty straightforward, she does what she wants, provokes, no regrets, doesn’t care. A narcissist. She is empty and predictable.
With Lily, I’ve just recently watched the documentary with Josh about her. I think, she is an Empath. I can try to explain my view, but it would be a long message.
Hey nata43tm,
I would love to hear your view as to why you think Lily is an Empath. On the documentary, I saw that she felt guilty for not letting some of the men finish. Guilt is an empathic trait.
I believe she is a Narcissistic individual and I can always explain more in detail as to why I think that if you like. I think Empath would be my second choice for her.
If Lily were a Narcissist then I think HG would’ve put her under the Tudorscope by now. Especially after sleeping 101 men in one day. So I think we can rule Narcissist out.
Hi, Mandalorian–
If I may, everyone has narcissistic traits. She may be an empath with eroded empathy from the external stressors of her life and choices. If so, her narcissistic traits are showing but that can occur without being at the other end of the spectrum and having full narcissism.
https://youtu.be/1xZC44T5BT4?si=8GE-eASdAQXLoqTN
Fair point Allison. Yeah we all have narcissistic traits (from very low to very high). With that said, I still don’t believe Lily is an Empath or a Normal based on the interviews, videos, etc. that I’ve seen about her even full well knowing she is being controlled and used. It’s just a best guess that I have, but if she actually found to be an Empath then so be it.
HG wouldn’t have time to put every public person who is a narcissist under his Tudorscope. But he also makes choices about who to analyse. So Lily could be a narcissist.
I don’t know how I’d categorise her although I’d probably put her somewhere on the narcissistic side of the spectrum, even including psychopathy. I saw an emotional emptiness in her.
Was I disgusted by the documentary? No. Was I disgusted by Lily or Josh? No. Did I feel disgust at the men who took part? No. Did the situation that took place unsettle me? Yes. Did I feel sympathy for Lily? Yes.
Hey Mandalorian!
Happy New Year! About Lily. Her mother gives her advices, handles her finance as I recall, father’s friends were (or will be for 1000) participants. It means her parents are, say it mildly, not mentally healthy. Lily probably lacked love during childhood and was striving to please her parents. My guess, she started her sex life very early. Random guys, seeking validation from them. Yes, as you said, she was upset that some would be left unsatisfied. She felt guilty. That someone would pay for travel to come and would be disappointed (this is nuts). Also in the movie, she was feeding a dog from a cup, she comes accross as a kind person to me. And honest.
She cried at the end and dissociated after about 10-20 men. Reminded me a movie “Pleasure” about a porn star. It seems she was not enjoying it as she thought she would. Quite reverse. The whole thing was hard to watch. Total self trashing. Her self esteem is erroded, someone did that to her. And convinced her that money is everything.
For to be Normal, I think, she cares too much about her clients. She didn’t insist on STI test. Narcissistic? But what traits? Vanity. Pride as well, maybe, though a twisted one (best s…). She let Josh paid for cab. Anyway, as Allison said, Empath also have narc traits.
I don’t know, I might be wrong, but I feel she is an Empath. Lost soul.
“Anyway, as Allison said, Empath also have narc traits.”
All credit to HG for that understanding! Not my own work.
Hey Nata! Happy New Years to you as well. I know this a late reply.
I 100% agree about Lily’s upbringing and everything you stated about her parents. While Pornography, Sex Work, IG & OF Modeling is festooned with many Narcissists, there’s probably many non-Narcissists in these fields as well too. As others have mentioned here, there are many factors that could lead someone into this kind of work such as economics, trauma, abuse, etc.
I did see the documentary too. Overall, she seems like a pleasant person to be around. I would say her Narcissistic traits are either moderately high or very high in particular the vanity trait. These traits are in full display through her Instagram, porn videos, kink activity, and promiscuous sexual behaviors.
For her to be an Empath, her empathic traits and emotional empathy must outrank those narcissistic traits. I think we can clearly see empathy, accountability, and guilt but is it enough to override those narcissistic traits? I’m not really sure.
I’m with you in saying that I could be wrong as well. I don’t think this individual will go under the Tudorscope. Anyways, great discussion!