I Just Can´t Get Enough Too
Sophia swirled the red wine in her glass, her cheeks flushed not just from the alcohol but from the sheer thrill bubbling inside her. Mia sat cross-legged on the couch across from her, picking at a charcuterie board, eyeing Sophia with a mix of amusement and curiosity. The apartment was dimly lit, candles flickering, casting shadows that danced like memories of the past few weeks.
“Mia, oh my God, you have to hear about Alex,” Sophia burst out, setting her glass down with a clink. “He’s… he’s a dream. No, more than that—a fantasy come true. We’ve been together three weeks, and it’s constant. Constant heat, constant connection. I can’t get enough of him.”
Mia grinned, popping a grape into her mouth. “Spill. What’s got you this worked up? You texted me like a maniac last week.”
Sophia leaned forward, her dark hair tumbling over her shoulders, eyes sparkling. “Everything. We met at that downtown bar—remember, the one with the live jazz? He was there alone, nursing a whiskey, looking all brooding and handsome. Tall, broad shoulders, that chiseled jaw with a bit of stubble. Blue eyes that locked onto mine and didn’t let go. Wearing a fitted shirt that showed off his arms—muscular, veined, the kind you want wrapped around you. We talked, flirted, and the spark? Electric. I felt it in my core. We ended up at my place that night, and Mia… it was explosive.”
Mia nodded, sipping her wine. “First night? Bold.”
“Bold? Necessary. He’s got this sexual appetite that’s off the charts. High libido, insatiable. We started kissing on the couch, his hands strong and sure, pulling me close. Clothes came off fast—his body is sculpted, abs like marble, that V-line leading down… anyway. He took me right there, hard and deep, but attentive, like he knew exactly what I needed. We went three times that night. Three! Each round more intense—him on top, thrusting with this rhythm that built and built until I shattered. His stamina, girl. Mind-blowing. I woke up sore but craving more, and he was ready. Pulled me on top for morning rounds. His lust matches mine; it’s like he feeds off my energy.”
Mia laughed softly. “Sounds addictive.”
“Addictive? I’m infatuated, completely taken in. His attractiveness isn’t just the looks—though God, those eyes, that smile when he’s teasing me. It’s his drive, his hunger. Last weekend, we were supposed to hike, but nope. I woke him with my mouth on him, teasing until he flipped me over. We stayed in bed all day—sex, dozing, more sex. Often, Mia. Like every hour. Him entering me slow at first, then pounding, my nails digging into his back. His grunts, the way his muscles flex… pure lust. I skipped my yoga class Saturday morning because of it. Called in ‘sick.’ Truth? I was tangled in sheets with him, riding wave after wave.”
Mia raised an eyebrow. “Yoga? You never miss that.”
“I know, but Alex is worth it. He has me hooked. He’s always hard, always ready. Wednesday, I turned down coffee with the girls—you included, sorry. He texted he was free, and I bolted to his place. We didn’t even talk much; straight to it. Against the door, his hands gripping my hips, thrusting up into me. Then the bedroom—doggy style, him pulling my hair, spanking just right. Repeatedly. Four times that afternoon. His body glistening with sweat, that cock—thick, perfect—hitting spots that make me see stars. I’m obsessed with how he makes me feel: desired, devoured.”
Mia leaned back. “Coffee ditch? Rude, but okay, details.”
Sophia giggled, refilling her glass. “Thursday, I blew off work early. Big presentation? Faked a headache. Alex picked me up, and we went to my cabin. Secluded, romantic. By the fireplace, he stripped me slow, kissing every inch. His tongue… magic. Then he took me on the rug—missionary, eyes locked, his lust pouring out. We went at it for hours. In the kitchen, on the counter; outside on the porch at dusk. His stamina is unreal; he recovers fast, wants more. His attractiveness in the firelight—shadows on his chest, that intense gaze. I turned down family dinner Friday because why leave? We role-played: me the boss, him the eager employee. He ate me out until I begged, then fucked me senseless. Mind-blowing orgasms, one after another.”
Mia stirred her wine. “Family dinner? Your mom’s been asking about you.”
“I’ll call her later. But Alex… his sexual appetite is a drug. Saturday, I skipped brunch with my sister—she’s in town, remember? Alex sent a dick pic, teasing. I rushed over. Hotel rendezvous—discreet, steamy. He tied me up with his belt, teased with ice, then pounded me from behind. His hands on my breasts, pinching, while he whispered filthy things. Repeatedly until checkout. I’m completely taken in; his blue eyes during climax, the way he growls my name.”
Mia nodded. “Hotel? Fancy escape.”
“Worth it. Sunday, I ignored my nephew’s birthday party. Family zoom call? Muted myself mid-sex. Alex woke me with fingers inside me, building slow. Then full on—him lifting me against the wall, legs wrapped around his waist. His strength, holding me up while thrusting deep. Often, Mia. Shower sex after, his body slick, sliding into me again. High heaven. I feel alive, electric.”
Mia interjected gently. “Birthday party? Harsh on the kid.”
Sophia waved it off. “Guilt later. Monday, I called in sick again—third time this month. Alex needed me too; mutual craving. We explored toys—he brought cuffs, vibrators. Him controlling the pace, edging me until I screamed. Then release, over and over. His cock pulsing inside, his muscles tensing. Infatuated doesn’t cover it. Turned down girls’ night Tuesday—wine with you all? Nope. Alex’s place: kitchen sex bending me over the island, then couch 69, him devouring me while I sucked him. His taste, his moans—pure addiction.”
Mia smiled faintly. “Girls’ night too? We’re your friends.”
“Sorry, but you’d get it. Wednesday, skipped a work lunch seminar. Alex surprised me at home—lunch break quickie turned marathon. Him on his knees first, tongue flicking my clit until I came hard. Then me on top, grinding, his hands on my ass. Repeatedly. His attractiveness: that stubble grazing my thighs, blue eyes looking up. Lust overload.”
As the evening wore on, Sophia kept gushing, wine loosening her words. She detailed Thursday’s ditch of a friend’s baby shower (“Alex texted ‘Come ride me.’ Instant yes. Hours of cowgirl, him thrusting up, my breasts bouncing in his face. Mind-blowing.”), Friday’s bailout on family game night (“His video call striptease led to mutual masturbation, then real meetup—oral marathon, him cumming down my throat, then flipping for more. Often.”).
“Saturday, turned down volunteering at the shelter with the book club girls. Alex’s cabin plan: nude sunbathing turned outdoor fuck—him taking me on a blanket, nature around us, his body covering mine possessively. High libido in the fresh air? Primal. Skipped my cousin’s engagement brunch Sunday—Alex’s morning wood demanded attention. Slow blowjob to start, then anal play, new and intense. His stamina pushed boundaries; I’m hooked on his lust.”
Mia listened, her responses minimal: “Wow,” “Intense,” “You okay?” But Sophia was unstoppable, painting Alex as her perfect match—his strong hands pinning her, his thick cock stretching her, the repeated sessions leaving her quivering. “Monday again, faked food poisoning for a client call. Alex role-played doctor—’examining’ me with his fingers, then ‘curing’ with deep penetration. His grunts, the slap of skin—infatuation peak.”
By the time the bottle emptied, Sophia’s voice was husky from talking. “See, Mia? He’s reshaped everything. Work, friends, family—pushed aside for his cock, his touch, his unrelenting drive. His sexual appetite has me enslaved. Completely taken in by his attractiveness, that stamina, the mind-blowing lust.”
Mia stood to leave, hugging her. “Just balance it, Soph. Don’t vanish.”
But Sophia was already texting Alex, lost in her obsession, craving the next hit.
Emotional thinking? Infatuation? Ensnarement?
240 thoughts on “I Just Can´t Get Enough Too”
Vent Your Spleen! (Please see the Rules in Formal Info)
This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.
So, here’s what I ask myself: if the empath simply wants to love themselves — and, in the worst cases, jumps from one narcissist to another right away — who mirrors the empath back to the empath so they can love themselves through the narcissist’s reflection: what a big, fat lie they both live and suffer from.
It’s no wonder that an empath’s fuel grows stale, because the empath knows instinctively that they don’t love -you- ; they don’t love the narcissist: the person without a self, who only mirrors the empath’s self back at them. And the narcissist knows instinctively that he or she isn’t truly loved; so they can’t uphold the lie either. Devaluation unfolds, and the rightful vengeance of the narcissist meets the rightful subconscious guilt of the empath.
Another question emerges: what does the narcissist truly gain from the relationship if the empath only loves their own reflection in the narcissist and only as long as the narcissist caters to that reflection?
In “Whore”, you explain this and address the empath, asking why the empath uses you to love themselves:
“How does it feel to live like this? How does it feel knowing that everything is a show, a performance and it isn’t real? What is it like being so shallow? Do you even care? Perhaps you don’t, after all you are getting what you want aren’t you? Well we both are actually so we should both be delighted with it, but why is it that I am not? Why is it that I feel used? I thought I was the one who was in control, I thought I was the one who was calling the shots and yet I always seem to surrender that control to you. I thought I was the one who got to play the tune and you danced to it but then it doesn’t always work that way does it? I wish I could work out why that was. You make me feel like you at times, or at least you make me feel how I imagine you feel, cheap, used, dirty, a whore.”
Dirty, used, a whore: because the narcissist has to adjust to the expectations of the empath, -becoming them-. Only when the narcissist becomes the reflection of the empath are the feelings – the fuel – projected onto the narcissist.
As you say, they couldn’t truly love you if they saw the emptiness, the absence of self, the absence of empathy and the emotions connected to it — that is, if they saw that you are -not- them.
And then you are aware that you can’t escape this crux and tell yourself:
“So, you carry on doing what you do best. Carry on imagining that people really do love you, that people really do like you and that they want to be with you because you are so wonderful and delightful. It is your performance that they want and you had better not forget that. You had better remember that you are beholden to their desires. You dance to the tune and he who pays the piper plays the tune.”
As the piper, you are in control of the tune: but the tune is in control of you, because it must be the tune the empath wants to hear: the tune about themselves, in order for you to feed off the emotion they project onto you — emotions that are, in reality, about themselves.
That’s why you are never satiated: because it’s not truly about -you-, the individual.
Because in your mind, your world, your reason: the true self of -you- doesn’t exist. Your soul doesn’t exist — you tell yourself.
But what if the true self -does- exist and it no longer wants to live the lie, and rebels against it?
Your kin, your kind — what if you all lived a lie for so long? And my kin, my kind lived it too? And we both catered to the crux in the same measure and proportion?
Recently, I re-watched two movies that were blockbuster Hollywood films when they were first released. Coincidentally, both were made in 1987, nearly 40 years ago.
At the time they were first released, I was in my late teens and I saw them at the cinema.
The movies are:
1) ‘No Way Out,’ a political thriller starring Kevin Costner, Sean Young and Gene Hackman. At the time, the lead actors were well-known and successful. The movie was hyped up and received positive reviews and widespread audience approval. It was a box-office success.
When I first saw it, I had a crush on Kevin Costner. I enjoyed watching the movie and thought it was well-made.
2) ‘Moonstruck’, a romantic comedy starring Cher, Nicholas Cage and Olympia Dukakis among others. Again, the lead actors were riding a wave of success and popularity. The movie was hyped up, received rave reviews, and won Academy awards. Also, it did very well at the box-office.
As mentioned, I recently watched these movies for a second time almost 40 years after I first saw them.
This time around, it was very obvious to me that in each of them, the key ‘romantic’ storyline involved the main characters – the hero and heroine of the story – having sex only minutes or an hour after they had first met.
In ‘No Way Out,’ Kevin Costner’s character and Sean Young’s character meet at a political dinner; they engage in flirtatious conversation for about ten minutes; they then decide to leave the dinner; and they then have sex in the chauffeur-driven car that taxies them away from the event.
In ‘Moonstruck,’ Cher’s character meets Nicholas Cage’s character for the first time at the bakery where he works. They then go upstairs to talk, she cooks a meal for him, and they engage in conversation for about ten minutes. He then knocks over the table in a fit of anger, grabs her, they kiss, and he carries her to the bedroom where they have sex.
Back when these movies were made, I’m sure they weren’t the only ones that had similar ‘romantic’ storylines. Such movies made it seem like it was completely normal for people to have sex after they had just met. This ridiculous premise and ‘storyline’ was sold to the audience as ‘true love.’
When I saw these movies as a teenager, they were so hyped up and popular that I didn’t really question the ridiculous behaviours they were normalising. Watching them again now, it makes me think that people were sold a very false idea of ‘romance’ and ‘love.’ It was made to look more or less normal at the time.
Now, in the days of dating sites and social media, where porn is rampant, I think that society in general is waking up. People are becoming more aware that the road that led us to this moment in time was misleading.
A good film, a good story, is of course a multilayered undertaking: and for a multilayered audience of all ages. A film is like a politician: it has to make you vote for it. It presents an election programme offering both problems and solutions, while putting forward role models – protagonists and candidates – along with their modus operandi, their skills, and their conclusions, in order for the audience to agree on how their state (of mind) should be run.
A good film (and politician) must be a good narcissist in a way; they have to use the right aesthetics, words, tone, sound, decoration, pace, light, and action — blowing hot and cold — to keep the audience engaged and to lead them to the outcome already prepared. It’s an ending or a solution the audience has no say in, other than to “vote,” to accept or reject it, and to make it part of their understanding of reality: a reality they are meant to manifest after leaving the cinema.
A very young individual’s mind, of course, is not yet always in a position to vote or decide; they haven’t lived enough life to grasp the full crux of reality that the film presents in a certain way. The parents vote on the child’s behalf when they place them in front of a screen, allowing them to absorb the programme of so-called reality. And it doesn’t help to tell a child, “It’s just a film,” any more than it helps to point out red flags to someone in a golden period: the show is too exciting to be rejected at that point.
When it comes to film, the responsibility lies with the storyteller and the team who bring the story to life. Great stories made into film can have a tremendous impact on individuals’ minds and lead them toward entirely different outcomes — personally and collectively. This form of art is an extraordinary portal of potential for societies in transition; those in need of such structured information to reach into minds and hearts where understanding and creation of reality are not yet mature enough to meet their full needs and fulfilment. They require the wheelchairs of imagination to either awaken or inspire the “what if” and “what could be.”
Nor should the historical aspect be forgotten, told through films: a reminder of how those before us were misled and misled themselves. When one forgets what came before, one is far more likely to repeat it all anew.
With films or politicians, it is the “bearer of the ring” who decides where to take the power, when, and how to use it. The more detached the bearer is from corruptive tendencies; yet also from an overly naive openness that sees only one side of the medal; the more their path shapes the story’s outcome.
Hi Jordyguin,
Your comment raises a lot of complex points regarding the way good films convey stories and how they influence an audience.
“A good film, a good story, is of course a multilayered undertaking: and for a multilayered audience of all ages.”
The medium of film is one particular way of telling a story.
When I consider ‘technical’ differences between a book and a film for example, the two are very different.
A book uses only words to convey a story. There are no images, no real people as the characters, no time limitations for the reader in relation to how long he or she has to read the story and think about it and all its details and nuances. The words on the page transform into visual scenes and meaning within the reader’s mind. The reader’s imagination is the main instrument used to bring the story to life.
A film, by contrast, is a set of images filmed in certain ways; edited in certain ways; and also promoted in certain ways. The characters are real people acting in certain ways. The pace of the story is determined, as is the style of camera-work, lighting, effects, makeup, costumes, etc. The musical score and soundtrack have a great impact on the viewer’s emotions and thoughts. All of this is then packaged in a standard length of time which is generally around two hours.
Therefore, yes, I agree that a film is a multilayered undertaking and it is made for a multilayered audience of all ages (with possible restrictions on age ratings).
In addition, I would say that it is a multilayered undertaking that has limitations with regard to its effectiveness to convey a story AND it also has much more power in telling the audience how they should think about the story.
Images are powerful – more powerful than say, words. An image can tell a story in a split second regardless of the viewer’s age, education, abilities, etc, and the image will be remembered vividly with the emotion that it first evoked.
I think that the way images can make a strong impression on people is the main reason that films have become the most popular form of entertainment and ‘artform’ with regard to the telling of stories all over the world in every culture.
While the images in a film have a powerful effect, there are limitations with regard to how well a film can tell a story and convince an audience. There are elements that need to be summarised or omitted. There are production elements that determine how the story is told and how it should be edited to satisfy the tastes of its predetermined target audience. It is made with the main objective of selling as many tickets or streams as possible.
When the power of a film to sway an audience is combined with the limitations of a film, it is challenging to cover all bases and tell the ‘multilayered’ story effectively.
“Great stories made into film can have a tremendous impact on individuals’ minds and lead them toward entirely different outcomes — personally and collectively.”
Yes, I agree. Film can have a tremendous impact on people – in both good and not so good ways.
Regardless of how much conscious thought and contemplation a viewer has after watching a movie; how much the viewer thinks about the meanings within the story; or empathises with the characters; or spends time thinking about the social implications of what they’ve watched; – the messages and subliminal influence of the moving images on the screen will have a powerful effect.
“With films or politicians, it is the “bearer of the ring” who decides where to take the power, when, and how to use it.”
Interesting comparison, although I’m not sure I agree with this statement. This is because a film is very much a group effort. There is a large team that must work together and combine their various talents in order to create the final product. The director could be considered the “bearer of the ring,” however, a film depends on so much more than just the director. There are the writers, actors, camera crew, editors, costume and makeup people, special effects, music, extras, and more. If you watch the ending credits after movies they go on and on for minutes and the font is tiny. There are many elements and many people who contribute and work together to make a good film.
Sex or Love?
As long as something keeps pulling me to this platform, I will return; when it stops — you’re history. If the Force decides to let this comment through — cool. If not — I trust the Force.
And to clarify — I’m not here to save HG Tudor or empaths. I may be here simply to -irrationally love- and as you know, love is irrational, so don’t try to organise it into boxes within your preset programme, where you imagine you “understand” what love is and assign obedience to kindness as the only facet you can grasp and associate it with.
Forgive the objectification, but HG Tudor serves a better purpose when “unsaved.”
To rationalise love would mean to make it part of reason — and you would bleed out eternally.
This or That: sex addiction is not love; emotional thinking is not love; self-harm is not love.
Does emotional thinking — drunk reason — mask itself as love? Absolutely. So express your feelings when you’re sober:
When you say -love- but mean sex addiction.
When you say -love- but mean dependency on the validation of a coping mask.
When you say -love and empathy- but mean ignorance — which crowns the mentality of turning a blind eye to your own and others’ suffering as you inflict harm on each other while chained to the “fun with no obligation” and your bloody instincts.
Because when you use each other’s bodies as an excuse for “love,” be clear that you’re engaging in the same tactic the narcissist does. You justify it because, on paper, you’re empaths.
And don’t counter with the pity-party cynicism of the opposite extreme: “So what, we should all be monks now?”
Apply either sober reason or indeed love to see what you’re doing — to others and to yourself — where the other ends and you begin, and how it all impacts your purpose as a simple human being, not the crown of creation in disguise.
To be forthcoming and to clarify: my previous comment about the dick pic was a mockery of judgement.
The truth is that men’s genitalia — and the human body in general — are magnificent works of creation. The man behind the picture, however, is lost to the point that he has reduced himself to the only thing he believes he has left — that which he instinctively connects to a long-forgotten purpose: the source of life and procreation, whose origin remains a mystery to this day. It is heartbreaking to realise how he is judged, and how his suffering goes unheard.
He has lost the ability to reach out, to express himself, to speak, to feel, to connect. He sits in a prison built from demands and expectations that have suffocated him to the point where he can no longer feel at all, except through porn addiction — the only source from which his stimulation for life now comes. His soul and mind are confused; his suffering has become inexpressible, and his cry for help takes its most perverted forms. He is misunderstood and judged for the very way in which he tries to stay alive. And yet, globally, death by suicide occurs about 1.8 times more often among males than among females.
Both Sophia and Alex are searching to reclaim their shared purpose — the feeling that will make them whole and lead them to create a bond of divine meaning. And it is heartbreaking to realise that they will once again fail — not because they are at fault, nor faulty by design, but because they are both misled by each other’s unawareness.
Okay, I made it through the dick-pic thread — omg, you’re killing me 💘
2 Cents:
Probably individuals with a Madonna–Whore complex (enthusiastically raises hand) enjoy receiving a dick pic because dicks are a forbidden fruit, and a particular wiring in my brain isn’t supposed to want them — and so the battle begins.
Fortunately, I live next to a hot springs location that I visit now and then, and here we have mixed saunas where everyone strolls along nude — so thankfully, I’m not short on dick visuals, yay!
Dicks alone aren’t fulfilling, and obviously there’s no immediate Einstein behind a dick pic, but it can signal relative space, time, mass, and energy — which is good for my ego. Some time ago, an individual slid into my DMs who resembled an actor I liked, and damn, my mind is trained for fantasy! I can fall for a guy’s boldness despite understanding the unserious nature of everything he’s made of, so I don’t underestimate the power of a handsome dick pic — or a pro with an instinct for finding the right prey.
But for me, my complex wins — you can look but don’t touch — it’s engraved in every fibre of my marbles. They’ve no idea what they’re up against. The bar is too high to be figured out by a mortal, basically. And no, I’m not a virgin — I know that the emperor is naked. To top that, you need to be something, and I’m perfectly content dying alone; a half-measured individual is not worth the investment.
Besides, I’m convinced of eternity, so I’m not in a hurry to have it all right now — or never. Reading the articles, hearing about all of your experiences, or listening to friends, I realise that I’m not missing out on anything. I love the love, and everything that is love — even the illusion, if that makes sense.
Love may be part of the illusion according to those who don’t believe in or experience it, but without love, a fulfilled existence isn’t possible. I can love many individuals for many different reasons, but never cross the boundary of tying my energy to them in a way that’s too sacred — one that would bind too much of myself to someone who doesn’t experience the same. For some reason, I can read this in people, and it orders me to look but not touch.
When I was young, coming out of a two narc parent home, in seeking some intimacy with another, I had a fair amount of unattached sex. I am not proud of that or embarrassed by it, it’s just a fact from my life. The sad thing was, I had no clue what actual intimacy was. I had no clue until many years later, after I’d been married and divorced twice, after I had grown children, long after I’d given up my previous promiscuous ways.
I finally started to see the light when I purchased HG’s Dark Cupid series and read through the comments on the blog specific to it. Since that time I’ve continued to learn what true intimacy looks like, it’s taken time to figure it out, time away from any romantic relationships, time to learn my own value, time to heal those things that caused me to run from intimacy, if it threatened to appear in my life.
There is nothing wrong with a person having a casual fling, if their morality allows for it. I just have found that for me now, it is no longer what I am willing to settle for. Now I want all that which goes with true intimacy and nothing half-way, nothing casual. It is the intimacy which will allow the sex to be great, not sex allowing the intimacy to occur. Without the whole package, so to speak, the sex is just empty and I’m as guilty of masturbating with his body as he may be of doing so with mine, albeit different drivers.
I’m still terrified of true intimacy, unsure if I can handle it, but I know that the idea of it is a bigger turn on for me than any dick pic or erotic book could ever be. And that in order to have it, I have to be, and stay, proactive, not giving up my own power in the relationship, meeting him half way when the time is right. There will need to be a foundation of trust, a knowledge that he is not a narc seeking his prime aims, that we’re both in it in the same way, for the same goals. It can’t be based on fantasy but on reality. This all will take time, I have to be okay with that also, which previously was a struggle for me.
Previously, I wanted to rush to cement things one way or the other, to be exciting and excited etc. The urge to do so, with a narc in particular, is very high for me. I have to let go of the idea that anything is cemented, or determined, by sex, and that it is okay for the relationship to build, and possibly crumble, before any sex would take place. The idea of that is very difficult still for me, if it’s a relationship I really think I want.
Anyway, I am and will remain forever grateful to HG for showing me myself in this way. I think it would not have been effective if done in any other way and it took a narcissistic psychopath to be willing to go there, to break through for me. Again I say, thank you HG.
Wow. Beautifully written and so wise, AV.
Thank you Jade.
A Victor – this is such a great comment. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
You’re welcome WC.
@ A Victor
I’m wishing for you to find another Empath, for you to accept each others baggage that comes with being an empath, for both of you to have the strength to forgive each others weaknesses everyday and never give up. We are meant to be together, narcs get in the way.
@Witch,
Thank you, that is so kind. And I agree, empaths are meant to be together.
It’s a pity that our narcissists don’t see it that way. I don’t even believe anymore in the possibility of meeting an empath.
Believe Josephina. I met one. It’s possible. ✊
Hi Josephina,
Its possible to meet an empath. All hope isn’t lost! Look at how many empaths are here on the blog.
@Josephina
It is very possible for you to meet another empath by applying the knowledge learnt here. I can spot other empaths quite easily now (not saying I’m always right, I may have mistaken a normal for an empath for example) but it gets easier to tell who has emotional empathy at the normal range or more and who doesn’t
Josephina,
Probably good, since hope it’s a false mistress. We know it does happen, we see stories of it here, but for it to happen for me, I also doubt it at this point, and don’t give it much thought now either.
HG has said, paraphrased, live our lives, just live, with our new knowledge. If we’re doing so, we are in a good place, a place where, if it happened, it would be awesome, but if it doesn’t, life is still pretty great. (Big paraphrase)
I agree with HG on this, I’ve been doing it for a couple of years now. Life as it is it’s pretty great. Much better than when I was with any narc. Okay, my mom’s still upstairs, haha, but that’s been manageable, I live my life mostly without her. She irritates me sometimes but I don’t allow it to last long. I will remain single quite happily if no one comes along, rather than get involved with another narc.
@Witch,
Thank you for your comment regarding spotting people with empathy. That is helpful, I’d not thought of proactively looking for empathy before.
I like what you shared about HG saying to get on with living life too, that’s good advice AV. also what you said Witch about spotting empaths. I find where there’s narc grounds like dating websites, there’s also places you’re more likely to find empaths e.g. libraries, animals rescues, for example! 🤓 Of course the narcs still sneak in but I’ve definitely found more empaths than average in these places.
*narc hunting grounds rather than narcissistic grounds 🤦♀️
Hi Jade,
Libraries and animal rescues are narc hunting grounds as well. I just suggested Sitting Target on another thread. Its an eye opening book. You’d be surprised how many places are narc hunting grounds.
Ugh! They spoil everything don’t they, Leigh! 😅 J found a few empath friends at an animal rescue but weeded out a few narcs too. Grr
They really do spoil everything, Jade!
Tricky re buying books Leigh but appreciate the suggestion. I’m binge watching HGs channel in lieu!
Hi Jade,
You’ll find a wealth of information on YouTube and on the blog as well. Should you ever get a chance to purchase any of Mr. Tudor’s books, Sitting Target should be in the top 5.
Thanks Leigh! I looked it up on Amazon and could see why you’ve recommended it to me. 👌 Yeh, I started reading the blog archives a while back.. I’ll have to start again too. Good call.
Jade, Leigh, Witch, A Victor,
Thank you all so much!!! You’re amazing! 😊
Jade
“Believe, Josephina. I met one. It’s possible.”
That’s wonderful, I’m so happy for you, Jade.
If I understood correctly, you’re married to that person?
That’s truly inspiring. 💖
Leigh
“Hi Josephina,
It’s possible to meet an empath. All hope isn’t lost! Look at how many empaths are here on the blog.”
Hi Leigh, yes… but there’s one small thing — they’re all women!)))
Or are there male empaths here too?
Witch, A Victor
A Victor
I understand you. And I agree with H.G.’s wise words.
But still, it makes me sad to read this…
From the bottom of my heart, I wish you all the best — may you meet that good person, your true other half. 🤗
My lack of faith in this possibility comes from my current situation.
I interacted with my ex-narcissist for six years.
During the last year, it was already a “lighter” kind of contact.
I had started a romantic story with another guy, and at the same time my ex-narcissist was grooming his future wife.
Yes, even then, my ex and I still saw each other at least six days a week because of our studies, texted outside of class (though much less), worked together on academic projects, and so on.
I remember he once said: “You’d do anything just so I don’t get into your head.”
And it was true — because I no longer had the strength to deal with it.
What I mean is — things seemed kind of normal.
Our paths were slowly parting, no drama.
Yes, there was still a need — one I didn’t realize — just to see him, even from afar, that was enough.
He was addicted to me, and he made me just as hopelessly addicted to him. (And to be fair, he put a lot of effort into that — really, a lot.)
So our lines diverged, but remained parallel.
The real pain came later.
The first year after I moved to another city, everything was wonderful.
Sometimes I even missed him — but looking back, I thanked fate for throwing me off that ship (though I still insist that I was the one who jumped off)).
Such an ambivalent mix of feelings. (I’d better stop here — that’s a whole book in itself.)
Things got bad when, for the first time in my life, I met someone like him.
That’s when it hit me.
An inexplicable flood of physical sensations, wild anxiety, arousal… it was awful.
Later there were others — I’m not exaggerating when I say more than ten narcissists, at least.
At first, I didn’t understand the differences — I sensed something familiar purely intuitively, and panic began.
Especially when someone offered a romantic relationship.
Any of their “touches” to my mind became a trigger — a flashback to my ex-narcissist.
Later I realized that all those other narcissists weren’t even close to my ex.
He was calculating, manipulative, perfectly aware of what he was doing and why — cunning, incredibly intelligent (admiration, awe, horror — I’ll stop myself here too).
But his goal was clear: to break me.
The others didn’t even come close — what they did, they did unconsciously. Just plush teddy bears compared to him.
And yes, most of them believe (and others believe too) that they are “good people.”
It got so bad that I went to see a psychiatrist (even though I’m a psychiatrist myself), because I thought I had schizophrenia.
But the doctor said it was PTSD with severe somatic flashbacks.
(I already had a CPTSD diagnosis before my ex.)
But this time, things got worse — and it still hasn’t completely gone away.
I’ve been in regular CBT therapy, and now I’m adding EMDR, because every narcissist (even one who doesn’t try to target me) triggers a reactive response in my psyche and my body.
They’re all triggers — I fall back into my past trauma with my ex and relive it all over again.
Any attempt to enter my mind feels excruciating — I simply can’t handle it.
And since I can still provide some fuel (even though I’m shattered inside), they can still use me as a tertiary source — but even that is unbearable for me.
That’s why it’s so hard for me — through all these flashes and interactions (even the good ones!!) — to see the empaths.
To my horror, I also realize that if my ex ever decided to pull me out of the cellar like a bottle of wine — he’d probably overdose on my fuel, and I’d overdose too.
It would be fatal for both of us.)
Because when I’m detached — I don’t care, I don’t even think about him.
But if someone touches my mind… everything feels alive again.
I just hope therapy will help me heal.
Josephina,
You are in a great place here, for healing, in addition to any therapy you may decide to do. I tried therapy many times throughout my life but didn’t find any relief or understanding about my life until I arrived here. Here, not only did I learn what had happened to me, I learned how to fix it. What narcissists do to us is incredible really, and not in a good way. The best news though is that we can heal. I will never be “normal”, or perfect, but I am now healthy. That would not have happened without HG and this place. I hope you will stay, keep reading, and commenting as you feel led to, even as you seek other help.
Hi Josephina,
I’m not sure if there are men on this blog. Alex the Authentic used to pop up every once in awhile and I believe he was a male empath. I just meant that they do exist. They’re not as rare as you may think. Mr. Tudor has done interviews with male empaths. Don’t forget normals have empathy as well.
I agree with AV. You’re in the right place. This blog and learning from Mr. Tudor has been the most helpful in my healing process. I’m sure you’ll benefit from it as well.
Hi Josephina,
Thanks so much for sharing. To answer your question, yes it’s my husband. 😊
I thought a few things reading your comment.
1. Now is the time for healing YOU. Take your time, don’t rush it, allow yourself time. You don’t need to think about dating or who’ll you meet yet though i know it might be tempting. Who Is Josephina ? What does she like? And more..
2. Though frustrating and difficult your body is doing you a favour, weeding out the narcs. It’s letting you know what it needs. I know it doesn’t feel like it now, but you’ll come out of this and will make a better life, light years away from what you could have ever imagined with your ex. ❤️🩹
Hi A Victor,
I hope you’re well. I’d be interested to learn more about how you fixed / healed here. I can feel it happening to me so be interesting to hear more if youd like to share? No prob if not. I’m obviously aware HG is not a “healer” as I heard him say somewhere. He gives us the unfiltered, raw truth. 💯 But maybe with you empaths alongside ❤️ that and the understanding that sinks in.. something happens. ✨ I feel like I’m understanding the contagion side of me more than ever before even though one known about HSPs for a long time…
*even though I’ve known about HSPs.. 🤦♀️
Hi Jade,
Probably the best way to learn how my healing happened, without specific questions for me to answer, is to read the comments I posted this morning. Ironically, there is a good amount of how that process happened in those comments. When I arrived here, I’d been involved with an ULA for the months or so and had just ended that. It was my first foray into the world of dating since my ex had left. That relationship was so crazy, I needed to find out what had happened, through googling, I landed on narcsite after a couple of days and stopped my search at that point, it all fell into place. I recognized my mother a couple weeks later and that was confirmed. It was hard for me to see it with my dad, but that was also confirmed after a while and then, lastly, my ex. I couldn’t bring myself to see it with him, even though it is quite apparent. That was at about 4-5 months after I’d arrived here. Then it was the slow process of learning and accepting and changing my thinking that continued and I did consult with HG many times, I needed that, it would have taken me much longer without that. My cognitive dissonance was very very bad, I needed his direct approach to break through it. That’s the history in general. I’m happy to share if you have specific questions. I owe HG more than I can ever repay, for this place he’s created and also for being there to talk with directly. He is not a healer, according to himself, but I’ve told him, he can say that but in my case, he is a healer. He laughed. It was nice. HG,I hope it’s okay to say that last bit, if not, please delete.
I appreciate your response A Victor and thanks for the detail. It gives me more understanding of how people here feel about HG too. I am very grateful as well just from the blog and YT.
I agree re healing, he is doing that even if he doesn’t call it that. “The truth shall set you free” and he provides that. I’m glad you worked things out. I think we need to put those pieces together for healing too, don’t we, however long after the fact? I’ll read more of your comments. Thank you again. ❤️
A Victor,
Thank you for your reply. What you wrote about healing gives me hope. Of course, I will continue learning from H.G. And I often think about how incredibly lucky I am that H.G. appeared in my lifetime, in my years. I’m deeply grateful to be here now and to have the chance to learn.
Leigh
Thank you so much! 💖
I agree and wish that for you too AV. It’s not perfect of course, but damn lovely on the whole with my empathetic husband.. a world away from power games and such like. We both try and help each other and it’s a lovely dance as we grow together. I’m also noticing a similar feeling with empath friends as I have finally made some in mid life lol, a balanced give and take. 🥰 We deserve to be cared for as well as doing the caring. ✊
Thank you Jade. I’m happy for you to have found it, it’s hope giving to hear such stories from the empaths here.
I am glad. 🩷
“I like some crazy things in fantasy… in reality I’d probably be scared.”
No sane woman enjoys a peek at my fantasies or the scale and scope of things I’ve done. At times I’m overwhelmed thinking about the sexual outrageousness I’ve gotten up to (or up over, or up under, or up behind…) but I also experience a sick sort of pride. Extreme things stimulate me and I’ve done my dirt. Mind you, no laws broken, except perhaps moral ones.
I’ve lost female friends after I’ve shared certain experiences I’ve had. But as I’m a person with particular tendencies their reactions of shock turned me on.
I’ll admit it–when I’ve recounted getting off doing something which would have left any normal woman mentally destroyed it’s intoxicating. There’s just something arousing about it. Sometimes I hate myself. Truly.
My matrinarc changed me. Growing up under the attentions of a narcissist and notorious pervert tenderized me. It warped me. Made me want bad things.
Sex and fear, attraction and revulsion are united in me and I’ve made too many fantasies into reality that were best left in my head. But I have this compulsion to do things I shouldn’t, especially in the sexual arena. Especially the types of things most women don’t do. I’ve asked men to do things to me that disturbed them. I especially like my mind fucked.
I crave sexual experiences which scare me, and sometimes scar me. But I’m very ambivalent. I’ve done bizarre things just to feel something and then forget myself. Heights of pleasure from wallowing in the pits of hell.
There are few things as terrifying for me as throwing myself into a circus of flesh, and few things as exciting. I keep hoping that somehow someone will stop me. That someone will see me and not turn away from what I show them.
I wish I wish I wish to go from this ruined house.
Allison,
Human beings are wired for certainty. We would often rather find ourselves in a situation that is negative but that feels familiar or confirms our pre existing beliefs / view of ourselves, than in a situation that is positive but conflicts with our beliefs / view of ourselves and is unfamiliar.
Three questions.
What are you searching for?
What do you try most to conceal?
What do you most value in other people?
I’m not asking you to answer, but I think those questions are worth considering privately.
Hi, TS–
Interesting questions. I’m willing to consider them here.
1) I’m searching for baptism.
2) I conceal the fact that I was ever there. Allegedly.
3) The thing I value most in others is their ability to inspire my respect.
Hi Allison,
It’s difficult to tell with you when you are joking, being serious, or being serious behind the joke!
I’m going to assume you are being serious here.
1. Baptism. Purification and removal of sin. A rebirth to a new life. That’s the symbolism behind it I think? From what you have said about your childhood, I don’t think you need to be forgiven for anything. You don’t require purification though the narcs love to list out our supposed shortcomings and imperfections. You can choose a new path whenever you like, that’s within your own power to do, if that’s what you want to do.
I saw your comment about having exhausted therapy. I’ve never been to therapy, so I’m neither for nor against it. It’s not something I’d gravitate towards though if I’m honest. I prefer to work things out for myself because in essence, I know me best, I don’t do confide and there’s only so much that talking about my past would do. I think there comes a point where talking and picking apart our past just keeps us stuck there. It sounds to me that you have reached that point in your therapy!
There’s a book I read years ago to help me stop smoking. “Allen Carr’s Easy Way to Stop Smoking.” I especially liked it because it said to smoke whilst reading it. Why not then? Haha! It’s a great book, it’s transferable to all kinds of addictions. Essentially, Carr spoke about how all the emphasis is on how difficult it is to stop and become a non smoker. How people attribute reasons, explanations as to why they can’t stop and how there is a whole industry that reinforces how difficult it is and how it isn’t the smokers fault they are addicted. All this does is reinforce to the smoker how difficult it will be to stop, to wake up as a non smoker. The answer is actually simple. Just stop. Stop and you are now a happy non smoker. Simple as that. So that’s what I did. Didn’t analyse all the reasons why I smoked, why I continued to smoke, just decided I wanted to make the change. I finished the book, extinguished the cigarette, and that was job done, a new non smoking me.
You already know your past, inside out and back to front. You were a child abused and objectified by a narcissist, you know that too. That couldn’t possibly be your fault. You don’t need purification, baptism, rebirth or anything else bestowed on you by someone else. Bestow on yourself. Whatever you want, whatever changes you want to make, make them, for you, no approval necessary, no narc the Baptist either. If you are religious, or if you are drawn to religion I know that anchors many, good thing, but the symbolism behind baptism which I assume you were referring to, that comes from within, you have the power to do that for yourself.
2. “I was never there. Allegedly.” You were though. It never stays in Vegas. You were there, but, like Vegas, you’ve seen it and done it, accept it but now maybe it’s time to catch a flight out of there. ( Assuming you don’t want to stay in Vegas. And no, you can’t go back for your birthday.)
3. I think I’d say loyalty for this one. Quite a broad term and encompasses lots of elements but, “someone who inspires respect in me” I like that too. Respect comes up a lot for me when I talk about personal relationships. Respect for me, respect for them.
I hope I’m not overstepping here Allison and I hope you are able to make whatever changes you feel are necessary to help you feel at ease with things going forward.
Cheering you on too Allison. ❤️
Hi, TS–
“It’s difficult to tell with you when you are joking, being serious, or being serious behind the joke!”
That’s fair. I thank you for taking me seriously.
Regarding baptism, I’m no longer a believer but I still appreciate religious symbolism. I can say that I seek experiences which transform me in the way the ritual of baptism does. Part of what that symbolism carries is the state between death and resurrection where the hero descends into the underworld and performs the Harrowing of Hell.
I’ve never been to Vegas. I don’t like the odds. But I promise that if I ever went I could both be there and not be there at the same time.
But I like the idea of Vegas. The ghastly excess in all forms. The underworld city of the storm sewers. Too much of a gamble for me, though, even for my birthday. I see Elvis is alive. That’s surprising.
I enjoyed your anti-smoking PSA. It’s very good you’ve quit. The trouble I have is the attraction to extremes. Let’s say with sex. I put it down, like I am doing so right now. But at some point I pick it up again, and when I do it needs to shake me. Obliterate me. I start feeling this strong need for someone to draw their weapons against me. It’s four packs a day then nothing. And after abstinence the drug hits harder.
Of course, owing to years of training, the form the craving takes is feeling attracted to narcissism. I oscillate between denial and hedonism. Fasting and feasting. I can’t seem to find a balance, and it just so happens narcissists can take me from one extreme to another. It makes me wonder whether I actually want the madness to stop.
But when I stop, when I put it down, I never see myself as a former “smoker”. Never a “non-smoker”. I’m just between my last cigarette and the next one. The craving builds. I don’t hear that click without the person that will assure my descent into hell and back.
In a world where Paul is dead, Elvis is alive, and carpenters rise from the tomb, I guess me being a bit off balance is to be expected.
Your comments were very insightful and meaningful to me. You can be sure that is no joke at all.
Hi Allison, Have you read wild by Cheryl strayed? If not, I think you’d like it / find resonance. My favourite book ❤️
Hi Allison,
Thank you for being so honest, I’m beginning to understand a little better now. I think.
My comments are only my interpretation (right or wrong) of what you describe. I’m conscious of the fact that this is a public blog, but we have a very capable psychopath on the doors so we are as safe as we can be here. If what I write offends or upsets you in any way, please know that is not my intention and I would never ask you to reveal or respond to anything you don’t feel comfortable with.
Before reading that book I tried giving up smoking several times. I went to pieces each time. My lifeline as I saw it was gone, my crutch, my prop. When I had a bad day, or a busy day, what was I going to reach for now to commiserate or to relax? There was a kind of panic, I genuinely didn’t feel able to cope, it was shocking how much power I had given to that little box of cigarettes. If I described my feelings and behaviour as being very similar to depression, as crazy as that sounds, I think that would be accurate. I kept it up for a few months but caved. It wasn’t just a craving for nicotine that was the issue (that actually only lasts for 3 days) it was the psychological side, the fact that I had linked cigarettes tightly with my ability to cope with daily life.
So I understand what you mean when you say that when you stop you are never a non smoker. You are resisting. The craving is always there, the need, and you are resisting it day by day for as long as you can before you fold. Not a nice place to be.
What the book did was break all the psychological links that I had created. I had allocated power to something that in reality had no power to fix anything for me at all. Another illusion, but this one was of my own creation. Once I saw it clearly for what it was, I was a bit like Dorothy pulling back the curtain in the Wizard of Oz. Essentially, I had reframed my thinking. That little box had no power at all, other than to make me feel like death every morning I woke up. Once I saw that, I was able to stop with no problem at all. Barely any chemical craving, and when one did come in, I was able to mentally celebrate the death throes of the illusion.
I’m not trying to down play at all what you are going through by equating years of systematic abuse to giving up smoking. It’s the reframing and the impact that has that I’m trying to get at. Think of what we learn here, the power of the illusion and how it feels when we truly realise that what the narcissist creates outside and inside of us, was in fact just illusion. Nothing to do with us, everything to do with them. The whole thing loses its power and just falls away.
“Obliterate me. I start feeling this strong need for someone to draw their weapons against me. It’s four packs a day then nothing.”
“Part of what that symbolism carries is the state between death and resurrection where the hero descends into the underworld and performs the Harrowing of Hell.”
“I’ll admit it–when I’ve recounted getting off doing something which would have left any normal woman mentally destroyed it’s intoxicating.“
“ I don’t hear that click without the person that will assure my descent into hell and back.”
“Obliterate, destroy, the Harrowing of Hell, descent into hell and back, draw their weapons against me.” I think what you crave is less about pleasure and more about a drive to break yourself apart. You take one step down and you still don’t get that break, so you take another step down then another and another and still you are not shattered into pieces. I think this is your illusion and you’re caught in a loop. The idea that you need to fully deconstruct yourself so that once that’s done you can begin putting yourself back together. To fix something that doesn’t feel whole, that feels used and dirty into something new, fresh and without those cracks of abuse running gaudily across a new plate.
I think what you see as pleasure and hedonism is part of the illusion. This world that you frequent has been dressed up for you and presented as something it isn’t. It isn’t pleasure and hedonism, not for you at least, it’s self destruction. I think underneath it all you already know this, “I wish, I wish, I wish to go from this ruined house.”
When you describe being in between cigarettes, you have stopped, does it feel to you as though there is a feeling of pressure inside, that just keeps building, pushing from the inside out? Once you indulge, you pick up the cigarette again and need a stronger hit, once you have done that, does that internal pressure drop again? So you feel clearer, happier, more complete somehow?
I think you are caught up in an illusion that is partially of your own making Allison. You’ve given it far more power than it deserves but if you can break it apart by going to the source of why it’s there rather than thinking you need to shatter yourself to break it, I think you will start to see it for exactly what it is. Once you do that, once you reframe it, there will be nothing to resist, because like most illusions it will just turn into smoke and fall away. You need to go to the source, break that apart and I’m absolutely certain that the source isn’t you.
“My matrinarc changed me. Growing up under the attentions of a narcissist and notorious pervert tenderized me. It warped me. Made me want bad things.”
Xx
Hi, TS–
I don’t think it sounds crazy at all that cigarettes held such sway over you. Nicotine has powerful psychoactive effects, and I applaud your strength in breaking the addiction.
I have a mixed relationship to illusion, and I find it interesting that you relate illusion to all we learn here. On the one hand I’ve experienced the kind of shift you describe in relation to certain narcissists I’ve been impacted by. No doubt, the work here gets the credit for that. But it’s the broader dream world that complicates things sometimes. My perceptions, the faces I see, my habits, the appearance and significance of objects around me–these things shift seemingly on their own. Everything has that uncanny quality.
The feeling of pressure “between cigarettes”–your questions hit it. There is a shift in me that is a response to the absence of the stimulus. Once I can get the fix everything is clear for a time. Very brief respite. Then it’s like the ground under me falls away again and I don’t know if I like rockabilly or hate it, or what my sexual orientation is. In the moment–or the week or the month or the next utterance–I truly am all in on some way of being, but then it vanishes. I feel blank. It may be part of the reason I avoid intimacy as I can never be certain of who I am or how I’ll perceive things, or how long anything within me may be the actual case. And it isn’t that, in the moment, that I don’t want to take a sledgehammer to my entire collection of rockabilly 45s, or even that I won’t do it. It’s that I can’t predict if I’ll grab that sledgehammer or if I’ll join the Rockabilly Rockettes by the end of the week and buy all the dance costumes.
I think it may be that thing I want gone. Whatever it is that makes me see and hear things, or that makes people’s faces change into gruesome masks, or that alters the proportions of the silverware as I look at it. Somehow maybe my addictive pursuits quiet all that down. It’s as if when I do something insanely, explosively stimulating and I’m left unable to form sentences afterwards, then that makes sense. If I suddenly suspect my next door neighbor might not actually be human–and that he knows I know it–then part of me a bit later realizes that wasn’t right and it troubles me. One of the benefits of having my dog is that when I see she still likes my neighbor and she asks Jim to scratch her belly, then it couldn’t have been he’d transformed into something odd.
This began when I was young. I don’t know entirely why, but my mind started to do things on its own. But your reminder that I wasn’t the initial cause is helpful. I think maybe you’re right that my drives are not about pleasure , that hedonism is a type of illusion.
Maybe what I want is a sentinel, someone outside myself to tell me Jim is still just my neighbor. Or maybe I just want something so relatively terrible that the fact Jim really is a beast who wants to tear out my viscera isn’t so bad in comparison to what’s about to happen to me in my bed.
And that I’m made to know I’ve earned every bit of it.
Hi Allison,
I’m no expert, but what you described sounds very much like hyper vigilance. As kids we are supposed to be able to trust our caregivers. Your caregivers took that trust and abused it. Many of us have fallen foul of that but it’s worse when you’re a kid and the narcissist who betrayed you was a caregiver. No wonder people you can trust you suddenly question and feel that you can’t! It’s scary when you feel you can’t trust your own judgement.
The fact that you see signs and are unsure what is imagination and what is reality hints at anxiety, hyper vigilance and ET. It’s a bit like buying a new car, all of a sudden you see that same car everywhere. Your brain is primed to look for it, before, it wasn’t. I’ll never forget being behind a car during a lengthy silent treatment from online narc. The number plate spelled out the place where he lived. I saw that as a sign too. You aren’t crazy, well, you might be, but that bit doesn’t mean you are. It’s far more likely that your brain is primed to look for threats.
Dissociation.
The brain is a clever little machine, it will do whatever is necessary to protect you from harm, if this means disassociating your mind from your body, that is what will be done.
From what you write, it sounds to me that through repeated dissociation as a kid, you just lost track of who you are. The chopping and changing, all in one week, all out another, feels to me like someone trying on different versions of themselves in an attempt to find which version fits best or, feels more familiar. As a kid, I think you were forced to leave your own body in a sense and when you were back in it, it’s likely you will have moved through different outfits just to stay out of harms way. It isn’t surprising to me that just because you are now an adult that all of the same processes are still in play.
That sense of building pressure you feel, in some ways I think you are trying to drown out noise with more noise, a noise that at least feels somewhat familiar. It doesn’t mean you want that noise, it just means that you feel more in control when you hear it. You know how that particular song goes so in many ways it feels safe. Out of your body again, numb, quiet. You get the pause, the relief, then the noise and confusion starts to build again.
None of this is your fault. You aren’t broken or unfixable, you’re just doing what was necessary to survive. Leaning on a strategy that was very smart as a kid but which is keeping you stuck as an adult. Now you want to do more than just survive, you actually just want some peace to live your life and know who you are.
Love is a taught construct. So is intimacy. It’s absolutely something you can learn, like anything else though it’s work that takes time, practice, repetition and it’s work you put in alone before you begin to involve a partner. It’s very achievable.
I’m a firm believer in going back to the source. Reading the material here will provide you with the complete picture of your abuser, I think you need to supplement that further by researching and understanding what happens to your mind and body as a result of that abuse. You’re a very bright girl, once you understand all the links, then I think you’ll be able to break them apart and move forward without them.
I hope you don’t mind but I did a bit of research over the weekend. There are some topics that I think might be worth you looking into in greater detail. As this is so personal, if you prefer and if HG is happy to letterbox, I could mail them to HG and perhaps he would be so kind as to forward them to you. As I said, I’m no expert but I did find some research topics that I think you might find helpful.
Also, I found a really great book that I think you might want to take a look at it. I like the way it’s constructed. There are questions at the end of each chapter that are designed to crystallise your own experiences into a clear thought process. You get to see yourself, clearly, in black and white. That’s an excellent way to process trauma because I think that’s what a lot of what you describe boils down to.
The book is called Pleasure and the author is Holly Richmond. You can read extracts from it on Amazon before you buy it. Those extracts don’t apply directly to you but there will be elements that are relevant and I’m pretty sure the rest of the book will reveal far more.
If there are things you want to change, don’t ever lay down and accept them as they are. Research and keep researching until you find the answers you’re looking for.
At least you get to save cash on costumes!
Xx
Hi, TS–
“You aren’t crazy, well, you might be…”
HA!
Perfect. Loved that! Not kidding. It’s the start of a country song and the end of the road, all in one. I’m smiling. Thank you.
You do know I’m your wife now, right? Yes?! Of course you do. I can see it in your eyes.
TS, I really appreciate your even-handedness. I’m hoping my sharing can give a bright line example of what can come of being under the thumb of a narcissist, especially as an empathic child. Maybe people can be encouraged to use Mr. Tudor’s co-parenting and related materials. Part of it is, “This is your daughter in twenty years. Do something now.”
And also writing helps me think, and so does reading what you and others have written.
EVERYONE!
Especially the writing of a certain Mr./Ms. I Am a Narcissist You Idiot. Not sure if the comment was directed at me, but I thank him/her/it for the spanking.
I don’t wish to add to his tasks, but if you want to arrange with HG to send info my way I’d appreciate it. His call. I’m okay whether he finds that appropriate or not; it’s his show here and he’s not obligated. But I truly appreciate your willingness to be of help.
Thank you so much, TS. And thanks to all who have extended kindness to me at this time. God bless us–
EVERYONE!!!
Hi Allison, I do get your “this is your daughter in 20 years time” comment but honestly all I see is an honest person who’s gone through so much shit and is still trying to learn and reflect and change. And we all know people that would die before they’d do that. You’re an inspiration, if anything. ❤️
Hi Allison,
Of course I can be your wife! I can say that as we both know you’ll probably change your mind tomorrow anyway. Haha!
I’m glad I made you smile. Finding humour in our shared experiences keeps us moving forward I think, it helps us remember that whatever it is we lived through, we aren’t just the sum total of those experiences.
I contacted HG and he kindly agreed to forward the information on to you. Some of it might not be relevant, but hopefully some will be and it will prompt you to research those topics more thoroughly.
You’re very welcome. Sometimes it can just be a single sentence that you read here that suddenly causes a piece to fall into place. I have been hugely helped by the comments of HG and the thoughtful empaths here on the blog. I’ll always be grateful to HG for investing time in maintaining this safe place.
Xx
Hi, TS–
You’re right. I’d love you until at least this evening. Tomorrow is hours away and that’s a really long time. You know me well, Liebchen.
You might be my whole world this moment. Let’s kiss before I book the hall and then decide what I really want to do is join an ashram.
Thank you for everything. I await the information. And thank you, HG, for all that you are and all that you do for us. I appreciate both of you very much.
Oh no. The ink has dried on the marriage license.
Allison, hi beautiful,
I was told that before looking at the mental or metaphysical side, I should first rule out any physiological issues and cover possible deficits: things like nutrition, magnesium, zinc, and all that jazz. It’s worth having your blood checked, since a lack of something vital can have a huge impact on the mind without you realising it. Good sleep is also very important. The body shouldn’t be a hindrance: remember not to neglect it. Take care of this side first, so the rest can adjust more easily too.
P.S.: Food for thought:
The son of a bitch your mother taught you how to destroy yourself, and now you have only your broken self to unlearn – to reclaim what she took from you: the life you were meant to have.
What she couldn’t take away, however, is your captivating mind and the innocence of your sweet heart.
Don’t let her win.
Hi Allison,
I think this might be a match made in heaven. You’re playing to what I love, uncertainty!
You know, I’m really easy to divorce. I just want what’s fair, to leave with what I came in with, adjusted for inflation. So really, you could leave whenever you like. The door is wide open, stay as long as you want to.
(I might be wrong but I think my desirability just leapt up.)
Xx
Hi, TS–
“I think this might be a match made in heaven.”
Yes. I’m unruly, unfinished, untamed, and uneven. Mad, bad, dangerous to know.
I think it’s important I tell you that I go nuts if someone tries to join me in the shower. Nothing awful, but it rankles me. I have a very strict system in there. Very strict. It’s my system, you see.
Allison,
And masterful too!
Sold.
Xx
Allison,
It makes me sad that you sometimes hate yourself and yet find your attraction to these things so strong. You can make choices, you can choose to not give your matrinarc that kind of power over you anymore. I see you, and understand more than you may realize, we all the ability for depravity within us. I hope you can find your way to something that doesn’t cause your self esteem to take a hit and that is still satisfying for you. Maybe stepping back from it for a period of time is a starting point, like Leigh said, it does bring clarity. Thank you for your transparency and for being here, it is a good place for you to be. Wishing you all the best.
Hi, AV–
I appreciate your kindness. I’m downshifting. Just me and my toy at the moment.
Oh Allison. 😢 Thank you for sharing. It reminded me again of the belle da jour author i mentioned.. she loved things that a lot of women wouldn’t but that’s also ok. A lot of women (or men etc) probably aren’t honest either I reckon.
One of my ex’s is polyamorous (we weren’t) .. I’m not in touch but I don’t think he was a narc and I imagine there’s some people like him (not narc) who enjoy pushing their boundaries sexually. I’m saying this as in, you’re being yourself, doing what you need to do and there’s others out there. Not that you need to change anything but I wondered if you’ve had professional support for the stuff growing up? Though saying that I don’t trust therapists very much… 🫤❤️
Hi, Jade-‘
Thank you. I’m getting to the point where I don’t think the therapy can do anything more. I’ve had so much, and I think a limit has been reached. I’m trying to be on my own a bit to see if that works. But sometimes this whole clarity thing sucks balls.
I think you’ve hit the nail on the head Allison. Sitting with it is sometimes what there is to do, but it feels shit! Sending love ✊❤️
I know what you mean about therapy. My therapy these days is writing and talking to chatgpt.. oh and crochet lol #rocknroll
Therapy isn’t for everyone.
Hi Jade,
My empath daughter is very creative and she likes to crochet too. She finds it very therapeutic as well. It helps her decompress.
I love crochet Leigh. It’s kind of addictive but in a good way! Better than narcs lol 😆
@Allison
There’s no need to hate yourself. People develop unusual fetishes through no fault of their own. I used to get emotional over these things but now I try not to judge and draw the line at consent. If it’s making you feel bad though maybe it’s worth thinking about why you feel bad over it and working through it with a therapist. I used to feel bad over my own thoughts and fantasies, then I lost interest in expecting angelic perfection of myself
@Witch,
This is good advice. I realized after I sent my previous comment that I wish I had added that we all need to come to where we own what we choose, that it is no longer a reflection of our history with a narc. I think once we get to that place really and truly, we no longer feel bad about our choices, we realize we are the one in control of ourselves and what we do. I know that my previous choices, as a young woman, were a result of what I was coming from and what I was seeking because of that. And I felt the self hatred in a way but it was all muddled up with all my anger at the whole situation also. I couldn’t let myself slow down enough to think because it overwhelmed me when I did. So slowing happened when my ex left and I sat for 10 years never planning to date again, not even thinking about it. It was shortly after that when I found HG and started to learn. It’s been stops and starts since, mostly stops, haha. But, I finally, finally, own my own stuff truly, know what I want and need, and feel like I’m ready wherever my life takes me.
@A Victor
If your sexually has developed in relation to narcs, then I think it’s better to have compassion for yourself and not hate yourself over it, it doesn’t make you a bad person. If there are certain things you don’t think are healthy to act out then it might be an idea to work through it with a therapist and let go of the shame around it. I think sometimes the shame and self blame keeps you preoccupied with the desire more than the desire itself, because then you’re creating all of this meaning around the fantasy- you think it says something about you as a person, now you’re “bad” you’re “sick”
I agree Witch. I wish I hadn’t used the word depravity, I was only attempting to relate to Allison, who had indicated she felt bad about some of her choices and yet they also excited her. i wasn’t trying to indicate that her choices were depraved, only each of us knows where we fall with that. But I agree that if one is thinking like that, therapy could help. Though I feel I worked through it with HG’s material far better than any therapist has ever done for me. But it doesn’t hurt to try them.
Hi, Witch–
Thank you. I’ve been thinking of dropping my therapist. I think there are things with me that talking about them with her or other clinicians can’t sort out. I would say I need a priest, but look what the last exorcism got me. It set off the fire alarm in the church and made me into a better sinner. That was some weird shit.
Sometimes everything around me feels destroyed. I get this way. Right now I’m not tossing myself at people, and I’m trying to get my head together.
No sex. No drugs. “Health”, I think they call it. Goddammit, what a bummer. Turning on the lights shows up the damage in the wake of the party. I certainly hope somebody had a good time. But despite cleaning up I’m still dirty inside.
I am in one of my difficult moods. The woman who raised me was so evil I don’t think I’ll ever be rid of the mark. I don’t think narcissists ever truly stay buried. I’m glad she’s in her grave, but a little thing like death can’t stop some of those fuckers.
But, I do appreciate your words.
@Witch “There’s no need to hate yourself. People develop unusual fetishes through no fault of their own.”
Such a good point and also when you add narcissism etc into the equation and or an upbringing. I think taking shame out of the equation is important and even more so when talking about trauma.
Allison,
“The woman who raised me was so evil I don’t think I’ll ever be rid of the mark. I don’t think narcissists ever truly stay buried. I’m glad she’s in her grave, but a little thing like death can’t stop some of those fuckers”
We cannot get rid completely of their mark on us, in my opinion. But we can come to know which is their mark and which is us and live consciously within that knowledge. Differentiating that has given me my own power back. I am not those narcs who left their marks on me and I don’t have to live according to their marks. I can choose to reject their messages, once I knew it was theirs, and put my own messaging in in place of it. I am a person of value and I deserve good, real, healthy, fill in the blank, things. I deserve to be treasured and appreciated by others. These are some of my messages to myself now. Thanks to NA for that first one, long ago. And others here for others along the way. But it was a process, it took time. And hard work. And there were lots of tears. But so worth it, I’m in a better place than I’ve ever been. I say all this as encouragement, take it or leave it, you will find your way as you need to. 💕
You’re not dirty inside Allison. ❤️ Proud of what you’re doing. We got ya.
Dear Allison,
Bloody well done, good for you.
Nothing wrong if it’s consensual, if you’re ok with it and it’s not hurting anyone, no problemo
We get one life, live it !
Telling people never works, as you have found out. Probably jealous and not to mention judgemental much.
Past is past, enjoy the memories
Hi, Bubbles–
Now if a 6
Turned out to be 9
I don’t mind
I don’t mind
Dear Allison,
Jimi Hendrix ? Hehe
Hey Allison,
You speak of your desires but what of theirs? If they loved the experience who cares. I just think while we pursue relations whether love, lust, friendship or all of the above that we must realize they are humans too and enter into it with full disclosure. That won’t prevent anyone from hurting another but by being fair and respectful and kind and honest than the other party also takes the risk.
Until this moment I haven’t thought much about their desires as being theirs and as yearnings that need fulfilling. Suddenly when reading what you wrote that word hit me. I guess “desires” strikes me as something coming from someplace more raw than pleasure. For them, I think in terms of doing what I’m told to do or expected to do, and I want to provide pleasure, but I guess I don’t think as much about their desires as I do about mine. What about their desires? I guess I don’t really know. For some reason I just think of their pleasure. Maybe I separate the two because I don’t always associate desires with things that are entirely pleasing? I’m not making sense here, but this is the trail your question sent me down for some reason.
When I’m in in the moment I think of myself as a fuck doll, there for that person/those people, but I’ve never really asked myself about their desires. Desires seem to come from a deep, dark place and I experience that in myself, but I don’t remember ever considering that in my partners. That question did something.
Hi Allison,
You’re not dirty inside. You’ve been traumatized by your narc mother. It’s not your fault. You’re human and worth love, acceptance and respect. You especially need love and acceptance from yourself. Xx
You’re worth more than you realize and please don’t give up. We are all here to learn, to heal and support each other. Xx
Allison
It sounds you were conditioned to seek safety, comfort, and identity in chaos. The doing distracting you from uncomfortable feeling, the identity in your participation, and the power in the level at which you participate. I could be wrong though.
Hi, NA–
Valid points. I don’t remember most of it. I made some internal adjustments. I hate chaos as much as I court it. I’m kind of amazed that statistically it’s improbable that so many people around a child/young woman might have been narcissists. Maybe my perception is a matter of compressing it all into a sort of singular experience instead of the people being realistically distributed through time and space.
Allison
Re this
“I’m kind of amazed that statistically it’s improbable that so many people around a child/young woman might have been narcissists. Maybe my perception is a matter of compressing it all into a sort of singular experience instead of the people being realistically distributed through time and space.”
I heard HG say on one of his videos recently that whilst Ns are 1/6 of the population (but probably higher) empaths will have more around them because of their nature. Obviously “attracting” them when we’re old enough vs them being a family member etc is a different thing but it helped me understand why I’ve had a lot relatively in my life..
Hello brave Allison:
I am hesitant to share as a naughty girl myself when it comes to pleasure. I refuse to share but I will tell you this many women (and men) in intimate relations want to be the “ dumb sex doll” . Why? They want relief from responsibility, duty, a feeling of oppression. They want to say “ fuck it.” You know why? That’s their DESIRE. And I find short of using children or rape or snuffing of some sick acts that truly harm, when the door is shut…. All is fair in love and war. When the door is shut, let desire rule. Now my mother told me at 17 when I first had sex…. Sex is wonderful but best shared with someone you love. Sorry but my mom is the smartest women I know and I agree………………BUT pure desire is enjoyable too:) it took women a long time, hundreds of years to own their own bodies. I told my own daughter if a man spends money on you in exchange for sex, don’t forget the hundreds of years women fought to own their own bodies. You are 100% free to say yes or NO.
Hi AV
I love this comment! My details are a little different but I feel very similar.
Sex has always been a means to an end for me. About ten years ago, i realized I was missing something. It was something that my husband could never give me. That’s when workplace narc entered the picture. He showed me what I was missing, or so I thought. It turned out he was just better at faking it. But what I realized in that whole debacle, is that I was craving intimacy, connection and attachment.
I’m terrified of true intimacy too. I’m also terrified of attachment. Detachment feels safe. But sex without intimacy is off the table now too. I actually like abstinence. It gives me clarity.
Thank you for sharing your comment, AV.
Hi AV and Leigh,
I can’t do sex without attachment because of some fears related to sex, due to my sexual abuse from my brother and some of the fears installed in me from my mother’s manipulations.
I haven’t had sex in over two years now, I miss the intimacy I had, but I feel safer without sex with MLSNarc. I feel I’m able to keep emotional distance without sex with him. I can think more logically around him now too. Xx
Hi Rebecca,
Their can never be intimacy with a narc though. You might’ve felt connected, but it wasn’t the same for him. In my situation, I didn’t feel connected to him either. That’s why it was so easy for me to give up the act.
I agree that without the act, its much easier to use logic.
Hi Leigh,
You’re right, it was me who felt connected to him and I realize now that sex isn’t a connection for the narc, I was a means to get off with, not a real connection for him. It’s sad, but it’s the truth. Xx
Another helpful point about my historic narcissist and intimacy, Leigh.. thank you.
Rebecca,
I’m so sorry to hear about your sexual trauma. Narcissists, and in your case your brother who I believe you’ve said was a psychopath, affect every part of our lives. Every known narcissist I’ve had in my life has affected me negatively in a sexual way, along with all the other types of trauma I’ve experienced from them. And we all respond to those traumas differently. I’m glad you’re feeling safer and more in control of your emotions and logic around your MLSNarc now. Thank you for sharing.
Thank you, AV xx
I appreciate your kind words and I’m glad I can use logic around MLSN now and I can protect myself more now too.
Yes, my brother was a psychopath and I’m looking forward to reading HG’s new book about psychopathy! I’m looking forward to understanding more of their point of view of the world and understanding their minds more.
Thanks again for your understanding and I enjoy reading your comments and thoughts on the blog. Xx
Leigh, you summarized my thoughts better than I did. Thank you.
I thought what you said was perfect, AV. You gave us some back story so we can understand how you got this point. That’s why it resonated with so many of us and why your comment was so powerful.
Thank you Leigh.
Hello AV, I hope you are well.
(Redacted – breach of confidentiality provisions)
Whatever you have done in your past to get you through it was just that, a means to move forward, promiscuous or not, it was your life and not for anyone else to judge, hopefully not that anyone would here, and I was happy to read that while you are not proud of it you are not embarrassed either, more strength to you!
It is hard attempting to form relationships when you are from a home that clearly does not provide them. I believe my mother was a narcissist, I had a roof over my head and food on the table but nothing else was forthcoming. All I ever wanted was that romantic home life as portrayed in the American Christmas romantic films, and foolishly I believed it would come.
I read your comment with a mix of sadness and happiness, I’m sorry you had to go through what you have but it has clearly made you a stronger person.
I have a friend who repeatedly tells me to love myself, which I could never understand and still find difficult to do, however, I think I am getting there.
I really hope that you find your relationship with that genuine, true intimacy that you deserve.
Sending you love x
Thank you Carole.
My apologies, HG, I thought you may not have published the comment if you didn’t want the sentence seen, I do appreciate you publishing it with the sentence removed.
Hey A Victor:
I had a fling this year post divorce if you can call it that and I was so worried about it, I consulted HG. Was I low on empathy? I mean I am honest and open and respect him. I met a Dane in Copenhagen when traveling and want a fling. I am open to all possibilities, there is respect, friendship, and chemistry. But it’s new territory. I have been committed or married from 15 to56. I am not sure I even have gone on one date. It’s weird. But I am not sure I want to marry so what do you do if you are not ready for commitment like marriage yet want intimacy and well sex? I am very honest about being a recent divorcee. I am open about not sure I will be ready. But whenever there is a relationship even casual it can hurt another. This worries me but I think I am clear and they get it. I hope.
You can only be honest and try, Contagious. Sometimes life gets messy despite our best intentions and behaviour but it’s better than not getting out there.
Hi Contagious,
Yes, I’ve been reading your comments. Someone said to you to, in essence, have fun. That’s where I’d land on this too, though I’d add be careful. Senior citizens, which I realize you are not, had the highest numbers for STD’s for at least a few years, not sure if that still holds true. So I always add be careful. Anyway, I’m glad you had a new experience and I hope you had fun!
A Victor:
My mother told me about STDS in her retirement community in Florida and the dating sounded like high school. I hate being single. Thought ai would b married until I died but h was a narc. Refused to live with him and his abuse. I tend to fall into long term relationships but for now…, exploring… very safe. But I find some people are happier on their own and some prefer relations. I have no judgment. But I prefer a relationship. I am content alone but I do prefer the day to day with a man. I just need it to be solid. As you get older, and with HGs education, you are more careful. So who the hell knows?
Exactly Contagious, there’s no predicting what can happen! That’s what makes life exciting!
@contagious
Everyone is responsible for their own choices, if you’re telling that person you don’t want to commit to them, then it’s up to them to decide whether or not they want to go ahead, there’s always the possibility of either side being hurt, that’s the risk you take or don’t
It was really interesting to read all of that. Thank you for sharing.
“I finally started to see the light when I purchased HG’s Dark Cupid series and read through the comments on the blog specific to it. Since that time I’ve continued to learn what true intimacy looks like, it’s taken time to figure it out, time away from any romantic relationships, time to learn my own value, time to heal those things that caused me to run from intimacy, if it threatened to appear in my life.”
Beautifully said
Thank you Josephina.
Dearest A Victor,
Thank you for sharing your personal story AV, it really resonates (especially growing up). The quest for “true love” is the never ending eternal pursuit for us. Do we really know what it is and will we recognise it when we find it?. Our first love and the strongest, is parental love, siblings, family, friendships, pets and then ultimately intimate love. If we never had the parental love, then what hope did we have? No wonder narcs find us easy prey and we get sucked in with all their bull crap.
For me, (after all my mistakes in life hehe) it’s friendship first, kindness, caring, trust, honesty, respect, emotional support, humour and of course commitment. Sex is great, but it’s not the “be all and end all” of a relationship.
I admire your values and self worth AV. Dic pics are always distorted to appear bigger than they really are in real life haha (I’m not a fan and find them boring 🥱) haha
Stick to your guns AV, things happen when you least expect it, just make sure they’re green flags hehe
Aww Bubbles, thank you so much, what an uplifting comment, I really appreciate it! No worries, I’m not going to do anything at this point in a hurry, or without green flags. 😃
Dearest A Victor,
I have the utmost faith and confidence in you lovely. You are one very savvy soul .
A Victor:
May Musk, Elons mom is a must read. She is my hero. Survived so much. But she said at 60, she was done with men. Love can be friends, dogs a family and is HAPPIER. Now my mother found love at 75 after my dad and her second husband died. I think you just find whatever makes you happy:) x
Contagious, I didn’t know that, don’t know anything about her. I’ll have to check it out. I’m happy for your mom! That’s a hope-giving story!
Mr. Tudor,
Regarding: “Why the apex predator that understands the way a female’s mind works enjoys even greater levels of success.”
A top five behaviors women should watch for early on in relationships that point toward their partner being the “apex predator” would be much appreciated.
1. How do you utilize your understanding of the female mind during the seduction stage with a candidate IPPS?
2. Are there common themes you utilize in the crafting of the persona you take on for each IPPS, given your preference for magnet super empaths? (The genetics and environment that create this combination likely cause them to have shared features that can be utilized with each victim…with small modifications.)
3. How have your personas adapted as you aged and to the age of your intended targets? What works for a twenty year old on a university campus is not the same as what works for a man at the pinnacle of his professional career.
One thing that’s really interesting about “Educating HG” particularly the last few episodes that you released, regarding your move toward seducing all the women in your IPPS’s shared flat…was how you showed us what you deduced and how you figured it out…regarding Joanne (wanting to be treated as special) and Farah (wanting to be rescued and wanting more attention). I think more about how you spot these traits and know their usefulness would be good to know.
Regarding “I just can’t get enough too” I think that Sophia is infatuated. Alex, at least, offered apologies. Sophia keeps talking about how great her sex life currently is, so great that she is blowing everything else off and demonstrating no guilt (no apologies). Granted, Alex may be asserting of control over his friend with false contrition. His friend still called him “Mr. Reliable.” It looks more empathic (though it might be a midranger’s cognitive empathy). I don’t know whether he took the action necessary to rectify the damage to relationships that his potential ensnarement caused. That would be valuable evidence, as well as knowing the opinions of more friends/family of Alex’s. It sounded like Alex’s mother was also concerned for him, and contacted a friend for help. That might be emotional empathy. Or it might be needing to assert control. That’s all we really know about the mother…so impossible to say.
Sophia doesn’t care or notice that she’s telling her “friend” that she keeps blowing her off to have sex with a guy she doesn’t seem to really know–outside sexual encounters. I have been in Mia’s place. I am likely predisposed to judge Sophia more harshly than Alex. Maybe she is oblivious…maybe she is enjoying the negative fuel of her friend and getting positive thought fuel by focusing on how “wonderful” Alex is.
Who started the sexual picture sending? Unclear. I feel like knowing the initiator of it would help to an extent. Sophia was partially covered…and Alex sent just the part most interesting to him, given the context of the relationship…which appears to be only sexual.
It’s an interesting exercise, trying to look at these snapshots that summarize three weeks’ worth of behaviors at the beginning of infatuation, ensnarement, emotional thinking…thank you, sir, for these puzzles.
1. To bring her under control.
2. See Sitting Target.
3. They have adapted to encompass the status of the relevant parties.
Thank you for sharing your observations about the various pieces of writing, it is always interesting to read people=s views and interpretations.
Dear Mr Tudor,
Sooooooo, Sophia basically lied and canceled on family, friends, work, her charity and her sport.
Just goes to show the power of the penis …..and he didn’t even have to buy her a drink. Haha
Ok, she said:
“Blue eyes that locked onto mine and didn’t let go”.
If she’s telling the truth and wasn’t the one doing that to him, that’s a sign of an N/P I learnt today from listening to “tea with Sam” (ep5 I think).
Is that typical for somatics and their victims? There is just nothing there apart from sex. Nothing. I am not sure they even know each other’s last names.
For some somatic, yes.
“Are you a cake decorator or a painter since you enjoy a good coating?”
I’ve never decorated a cake, but I do enjoy watching the application of industrial finishings via spray gun, yes.
Allison and HG together is too funny 🤣🤣🤣
Hello HG:
My gf asked me if I sought therapy after my divorce. I paused then said … HG. It’s true you aren’t a psychiatrist or psychologist but better. I even want to consult on non narc topics as your intelligent, know-how and sense of humor is valued deeply by me. Please stay around a long time. I appreciate you very much much.
Thank you.
I was once involved with a somatic who was married to a woman who knew only Spanish and no English. He didn’t know any Spanish (just enough to order food–poorly) and could only speak English. I think the union was about sex for him and possibly citizenship for her, as she was from another country. They glared at each other a lot.
Allison,
Was it as funny as it sounds?
Hi, Anna–
Yup. It really was. And as he was a somatic there were benefits. Everything was the gym and sex.
We never talked much, either.
I wonder if many men harbour the fantasy of a woman whose thoughts they don’t need to acknowledge. I remember in the Louis series by CK he had a passionate r/ship with a European violinist who couldn’t speak English. It was sex, or her sitting silently (and with no complaint) when he took her out for hours long get-togethers with his friends where she presumably understood none of the conversation.
Hey Allison:
When my daughter was a teen she told me about her uber rich friends father who married a young Russian and they love each other but they don’t speak each others language. She decorated the mansion “ boho” but it was not like mine. It was beautiful. I didn’t tell my teen this tech giant married a Russian mail order bride but I didn’t tell tel her that if a mansion and they had designers, it wasn’t real boho. Because the whole point of the bohemian design was not about the ultra rich.
Well said!
😂 Hahaha, the party continues!
Maybe they’re both narcissists? 😏
Where the hell is Jordyguin with his funny comments? I demand him in the studio! 😂
Josi, I was just recovering from the previous party, and you demanded me in the studio to stumble across the next one. Recovery just flew out of the window, thanxxx! Ice baths for a couple of months await…
And what an absolutely lovely avatar picture you’ve put on! The 10th Kingdom, if I’m correct?
Hope all runs smoothly for you, lovely Josephina! Nice to “hear” from you, calling my name…
And wow! The article, indeed, I just can’t get enough too, sometimes… But it’s not what you think, you beloved pervert.
It’s The Meadow… Except; it’s not a calm bubble. Nature is not calm, nature is nature – it’s everything… But in being everything it is the truest sanctuary… I love what you create.
Jordyguin
Ahahaha yes yes, The 10th Kingdom!))
Jordyguin Am I the only one who sees how cool you are? Seriously, that salad you create out of words — it’s magnificent. Like a master illusionist. ✨
I can’t help but wonder who’s hiding behind the nickname Jordyguin. A slightly mad (sorry!) genius, perhaps?))
What you write is so unusual… I don’t even know which word would fit best to describe what I feel.
It’s simply impossible not to notice it.
You really are very interesting.
Sometimes I read and think, “How the hell does he do that… juggling all those words, meanings, metaphors,” and so on.
Jordyguin, what you wrote about toasters and traffic lights… awesome!!!!!
It’s really magnificent.
I’ll take a screenshot and save it.
When it’s great — it’s great. Nothing more to say.
I understand that you’re right, and thank you for that.
But it’s really very hard. Very.
But I’m on the way.
Even though I fall many times, I get up again, I try again.
Even though I’m totally exhausted.
Darling Josephina,
we’re two J’s sharing minds — I gently cuddle you, my love.
That said, what I’m about to say next isn’t meant to shatter the only rightful, optimistic fantasy you may need to hold about HG Tudor — at least temporarily — as a form of coping in order to engage with his invaluable work. Rather, it’s foremost about protecting your heart, which is of equally invaluable nature.
The fanfiction you shared is incomplete, and I’d like to propose the missing parts. If we’re speaking of an IPPS who is aware of HG Tudor’s real identity — aware of his legacy, his blog, his works — as presented in your fantasy, then she would also be aware that there is at least one former IPPS dying of heartache, and that there are at least ten prospects waiting in the wings, competing for the position of the new IPPS. She must also know that she herself — the current IPPS — is next on the list to be disillusioned when the clock strikes twelve and the carriage turns into a pumpkin.
So, either she must be significantly masochistic and ignorant of the reality unfolding before her, unwilling to see it — or she has been a poor student of his works.
The second possibility is that she is a cold-blooded individual who doesn’t care what happens in the Asylum of the Grotesque — to the others, or to herself in the near future.
HG never hid from the truth when he explained what he is and what he does. He carefully reveals glimpses of what goes on in his life, here and there. He is the apex predator — the most dangerous kind. He would never hesitate to throw someone off the cliff once they no longer serve a purpose.
And in sharing that truth, he remains our best ally so far against his kind — a kind whose numbers may increase, with more apex predators striking openly, as seen throughout history. Humanity will once again be put to the test: have we learned our lesson, or will some be forced to run the minefield once more — this time, past a sign that clearly reads:
“Danger: Explosives. Enter at your own risk.”
Jordy, my dear, bibliography and fanfiction are not the same thing.))
Creativity is often beyond logic…😅😚😂
This “outburst” is a vivid illustration of emotional thinking.
Hope in an empath’s heart never dies.
Though in mine—it’s been dead for a long time.
Your comment, to be honest, saddened me a little, but here’s in what way. I suddenly thought that maybe, somehow, my “creativity” might have misled someone (it’s silly, but for some reason that thought crossed my mind).
But then again, I remembered your own words—that if HG ever considered a comment unsafe, he simply wouldn’t let it through.
If you “worry” about me, don’t.
I have no illusions whatsoever.
All those questions I ask HG on “that topic” come rather from my nature as a researcher.
The empath sometimes breaks through, but believe me, I can shut them up when needed.
I really resonate with the position HG takes and that you can clearly see in his answers:
“Don’t think about the narcissist, think about yourself.”
No contact.
Because people shouldn’t transfer the charm they feel from HG into real life, into interactions with real narcissists.
I also like your comments on that subject—not just about me.
Once I scrolled through the thread and found your comments, I think, even from 2019 (I haven’t read everything, because juggling work, personal life, studying at the H.G. Tudor school and reading every single forum comment isn’t quite humanly possible, you’d agree).
You were replying to a woman who admired HG, saying something like: “I wonder where your imagination will take you next, like what if he slammed the door in your face,” (not verbatim).
She, I think, wrote something about imagining HG gallantly holding a door open for her.
I remember thinking how your reply was: “Middle on harshness. Middle on charm. High on humor. And 100% life-affirming.”
That position is the right one.
That’s exactly when this site brings people the most benefit—when narcissism isn’t romanticized.
As for me—my position was already expressed earlier in the thread where Jade asked HG about the dynamic with an IPPS and what it would be like if she “knew everything.”
I gave my own example and pointed out that it would be impossible for an empath in many ways. Utopia.
As for my “hope.”
That was during the devaluation, and it was memorable.
In fact, I always saw something existential in our relationship.
We didn’t have a “typical dynamic,” so the fact that he behaved that way with other women didn’t hurt as much (it did hurt, but not the most painful part) as the realization that “the mission failed.”
He told me then:
“You didn’t do anything. You didn’t fix anything. I’m exactly the same as I was before we met. Absolutely nothing has changed. I’m exactly the same as I was.”
That felt like a slap in the face.
No yelling, just a cold tone—here’s a couple of facts for you.
And I thought, I spent so many years on this… so much effort, nerves, love, time… damn, so much of everything.
And with just a few phrases, you pronounced a verdict on all of it.
There’s devaluation, there’s the golden period, and then there’s something after…
And in that “something after” phase, he said to me, something like:
“Yeah, you tried, you did a lot.”
And I said: “Everything possible. But it’s impossible. Or rather—it’s something that only you can do.”
He replied: “Yes. Only I can.”
When I say “why didn’t we have sex” or “why narcissists don’t give me sex”—it’s mostly irony.
Even before I knew HG’s work, I read Vaknin, and he wrote that narcissists masturbate with women, there’s no act of love there.
I think my ex consciously (though not without effort, mind you))) abstained from sex with me.
Because he knew what consequences that “act of NOT love” would have on his toaster—and he planned to use that toaster for a long time.
The dynamic he set from the very beginning never implied we’d have a relationship in the traditional sense.
I suppose he discarded me not because the quality of fuel changed (yes, I was somewhat depleted), but with his intellect and capability, it would’ve been no problem for him to change that dynamic—to raise the quality of fuel from me many times over (not just make it the same, but even better).
But since he himself had already torn down the façade, it was impossible to bring it back long-term.
Or rather—not quite that.
The way I saw him and the way a person unaware would see him were completely different perspectives.
Under no circumstances could I ever again see him through the eyes of an uninformed empath.
But here’s what’s interesting: why did he choose to tell me in the first place?
For starters, he was very young (17 when we met).
Before that, he told me there had been one random moment, as he said, “I got drunk and told a classmate that I can’t feel anything toward people.”
As for me—since I grew up in a family (I assume, though I can’t be sure) with a narcissistic father and a CPTSD diagnosis, plus possibly some innate abilitie s not trauma-related—I always read people very well.
I very quickly realized something was seriously off with my ex.
There were so many signs: one of the first being the frequent mismatch between his facial expressions and the context of the situation.
He would display a “supposed emotion” where it didn’t fit at all—or even contradicted the moment.
And there were so many of those little nuances.
His energy… It wasn’t just about him.
I can admire narcissists endlessly, but I clearly see their darkness, their emptiness, and… things I, as an empath, can’t even allow myself to say (though I think I did voice some of my observations to him).
This was all before he “enlightened” me with the knowledge of who he really was.
And I was always astonished—HOW, how do people not see it, how do they fall for THIS?
So, add my perceptiveness to my savior complex—or rather, my intolerance for injustice and oppression—and you get an avenging bomb when it comes to a narcissist.
To me, he was a liar, a falsifier, and a manipulator.
Oh, he had to do something to turn Josephina’s perception upside down.
By “confessing” to me who he was, he made me his ally—thus justifying everything: acceptance, understanding, compassion, indulgence, turning a blind eye, agreeing to his rules, the necessity of it all…
There was no other way it would’ve worked with me.
I swear, he’s a genius.
He even managed to plant in me this idea of “special treatment,” “nobility,” and so on.
When in fact, he had just found a perfect way to control me.
What kind of brain does it take, honestly!
As for our study group… the façade would disappear, then reappear, and I think he controlled that deliberately—and enjoyed it.
Honestly, I used to think maybe I was just inexperienced, maybe it didn’t take much to impress me…
But no.
I never saw anyone who could resist him, or from whom he couldn’t get what he wanted—regardless of gender, age, religion.
What he did to people was terrifying.
Even the most rational ones lost their heads.
He was a monster—but a magnificent one.
Never in my life have I met anything like that again (and believe me, I’ve seen more than one narcissist).
And again, I think—this son of a bitch deserves a book.
Sometimes I wonder how someone like him—a person (or not a person?) with such abilities—can live an ordinary earthly life…
Apparently, he married the wrong woman)))))
Honestly, with me, he would’ve flown into space)))
I’ll never forget when he once told me:
“Damn, Josephina, with you I really feel like some kind of superhuman.”
So, none of the “dynamics” appealed to me:
We’re married, and he sleeps with others—oh no.
He’s married and sleeps with me on the side—oh no.
I’m his friend, and he doesn’t sleep with me (or maybe does?).
But his idea of friendship is, let’s say, unusual… It’s basically the same as a relationship, only with total control on his side and tons of obligations on yours—but none on his.
I used to think we were “friends.”
Went on a date with another guy—and boom, straight into devaluation))) oh no!
Colleagues at work… No, after everything that happened between us—ohhh no.
So really, what other “civilized” scenarios could there be between us?
I couldn’t find myself in a single one.
As for HG—I admire his work.
It’s impossible to express how grateful I am to him.
What he does for millions of people is priceless.
He’s amazing.
BUT!
I would never, for all the money in the world, wish to meet him face to face…
I’ve had more than enough of my ex.
That’s enough for me.
So, Jordy, I have no illusions—about anyone.
Damn, typo _))) I meant to say “biography” and “fanfic”)))
Jordy
I’ll write this last one and then go off into the sunset.)))
I’ll probably need to take a little vacation, so the narc intoxication can wear off.)
Briefly, what you need to know about Josephina — normal girls might think, “I wish I could bring back those times, our love, the days when we enjoyed each other so much… the gifts, the flowers, the moonlit walks, all of that romantic stuff — I’d love to feel that love again.”
Josephina thinks: “If that devil ever knocks on my door, the only thing he can give me is to pass the Narc Detector test — so that I’d know exactly who I spent my priceless time on.”
Before, my ex still had this small thread of returning — But that’s over. H.G. has already beaten him to it.)))) Secrets are no longer secrets. ))
Sometimes I think he’s actually “poor guy,” you know… how hard it must’ve been for him to come up with a new season every year for that endless TV show called Our Life.
To be fair, he did try to keep the bar high; he really had what it took to surprise me.)
I remember once he told me, “I can be anyone you want me to be. Anyone.”
And I said, “I can do the same for you.”
I recall when things were already heading toward the end (the last couple of months of studying), and it was known that he was getting married. We were doing a psychiatry cycle then. We were texting, and I told him how I was scared of one day losing my mind.
He said, “Don’t worry. If we ever end up in a madhouse, it’ll be together.”
Me: “Together we’re strong.”
Him: “Yep.”
Me: “I’ve calculated all the risks, and you know what — we actually have a chance! But since I want only the best for you, darling, I decided I’ll be the head of that madhouse.”
(It was already clear by then that I’d be continuing my studies in psychiatry.)
“So, by the time you’re admitted — everything will be ready!”))
The bed — your spot — already reserved.))
When I read “The 3 That Got Away”, I couldn’t help but draw parallels with my own life. Each of those heroines has something familiar, something that resonates.
Take Karen, for example — my ex trained me too.
I wasn’t allowed to text him first.
Well, technically, I could, but there were sanctions: a cold tone, sarcasm, mockery, or no reply for ages. Basically, he did everything possible so I’d never want to write first again.
Of course, toward the end, the rules changed — but earlier, that’s exactly how it was.
And during the two months of summer vacation when he’d go to his hometown — silence. And you just knew you must not break it.
Still, I have to give him credit — throughout all those years, he always wrote to me. Every single year, all year long. Sometimes it was just a single word — but he always did. So I didn’t really suffer from my lack of initiative.
At the end of our “communication,” we both deleted that dialogue — six years long. (Honestly, I kind of regret it now. There were enough words in there for a couple of books — we could’ve made some money off it.))
Funny moment — once he showed me that he’d saved one of my texts (I honestly don’t remember what it was about, probably me admiring him, ahaha), and he’d saved it as a separate document and reread it sometimes.))))))) LOL!
I understand why he left me — because someone had to return to reality, and not stay forever living in their inner worlds, at least to cook some food.
Ahaha, okay, I’m exaggerating, but there’s a bit of truth in the “worlds” part.
My writer’s nature grew stronger next to him (as did everything in me).
Anyway, it’s finally starting to reach me (Josephina is not hopeless!!!) that when you consume narc content, your emotional thinking rises.
The more contact you have with a narcissist, the higher your emotional thinking gets.
And at some point, it reaches a critical level — and every empath knows the tragic chain of events that follows.
Before discovering H.G.’s work, I described it a bit differently:
When you’re next to a narcissist, everything inside you — both good and bad — just pours out, like from a glass. And it doesn’t just pour out — it gets stronger.
So, basically, by lowering emotional thinking, you can also remove flashbacks from interacting with narcissists.
And yes, it turns out the most effective way of interaction is no contact at all.
Otherwise, it’s only a matter of time before you give in (when interacting with a narcissist) and your emotional thinking goes out of control.
Hooray!
And on this beautiful note, I take a temporary vow of silence and go air out my brain.
Josi, I’m in awe of your self-awareness, my lovely twin: we know it’s fantasy; one eye is blind while the other sees right through it. They wanted to seduce us, and we want to be seduced, all the while creating that sickening twirl, engulfing bystanders through the quicksand and through the underground of the unknown.
Your “ex-no-sex”, the self-aware nobility turned commoner, unsurprisingly knows how not to exile you with cheap bling such as sex, and so keeps you haunted by his presence to this day. Their kind will hunt for what their genes, through lifetimes, dictate them to hunt for — in search of answers they do not wish to hear.
Ah yes, the door slammed before a very fragile one, her heart completely bare, without even the slightest cover of protection: to strike right at it, to cause a wound, to create at least a thicker scar tissue — a risky move, of course, but there’s nothing to lose if you’ve encountered a shooter who doesn’t hesitate, just as in real life, as you accurately pointed out. It’s unfortunate there is no one around her with a thicker skin to shield her bare emotion, but I mislead myself here: she entered the circumstances to learn how to grow the thicker skin herself, which in a way is more honourable than relying on a guard onto whom the responsibility is otherwise displaced.
So, here’s what I’ve concluded when I combine your perceptiveness with your saviour complex, your intolerance for injustice and oppression, and why he had to make you his ally through confession: it’s because… wait! Hush, we could wake the demons — those angelic beings corrupted, who took the form of shadow and flame. We can turn to our forefather, John Ronald Reuel, to do that. He provided many of the puzzle pieces; we just need to put them together.
You wrote about your demon:
“…the façade would disappear, then reappear, and I think he controlled that deliberately — and enjoyed it. I never saw anyone who could resist him, or from whom he couldn’t get what he wanted, regardless of gender, age, or religion. What he did to people was terrifying. Even the most rational ones lost their heads. He was a monster — but a magnificent one. Never in my life have I met anything like that again (and believe me, I’ve seen more than one narcissist). And again, I think — this son of a bitch deserves a book.”
Uncle John wrote it. I recommend you look up Morgoth!
Nonetheless, lovely, I’ve promised to cheer you up if you’d ask for my input. And you did. I obey.
To continue the analogy of machines, as you know we’re seen as toasters, narcissists could be seen as traffic lights. The green light gives you the go, the yellow makes you uncertain and red stops you. The red, the yellow, the green will take turns and you can be certain about the shifts, because you understand the purpose of the traffic light, it’s not a disco ball.
However, the last time I checked on my toaster it had the settings of; browning control, reheat, defrost and the cancel button.
In the article above; the traffic light (Alex) controls the toaster (Sophia). She is given the green light to come multiple times a day. But the yellow light will follow and unmistakably the red. Then the yellow again (uncertainty) and the green (respite) and so on and so forth until the toaster becomes overused and is thrown away to be replaced by a new one.
In the world full of perfect toasters be a broken one early on, Josi. Activate the cancel-button on your own when toasting is required and make yourself replaceable right away after the purchase, or don’t be salable to begin with. It takes time, effort and energy as you know. And by energy I mean the substance which every scientist worse his or her salt will tell you; non physical energy makes up 60% and the physical only 40% of what we are.
In that sense neuroplasticity can only take place if the 60% is spread equally throughout the system which runs your harddrive. The viruses or background apps you were not in control of installing even and were installed by the manufacturer or a hacker are draining your energy resources by redirecting them on activities which are not beneficial for you nor for the whole picture… It takes effort and time to detect those apps / viruses and remove them from the system. And between toaster and toaster — it’s desirable to strive to achieve it one day. 60% is a lot, we have at our fingertips…
* Worse or worth, I believe I wrote worse. Lol, it goes both ways… (see?! broken, already.)
That was hot….please, don’t put it into a video, Mr Tudor. Reading is enough. With your voice it would be too much.
I’m lost who the narcissist is here. They both altered their story a bit, or someone is lying. He said she tied him with a scarf, she said he tied her with a belt. Then he said she brought toys, she said – him. She played seductress, he played boss. Etc.
He was alone in the bar, she was in tight red dress. Idk, really, either of them could be a narcissist or both. Narcissist when ensnaring, is cancelling all prior arrangements, as well as an empath, flying with butterflies and high on ET.
Arya,
“That was hot….please, don’t put it into a video, Mr Tudor. Reading is enough. With your voice it would be too much.”
I’m not up on YT rules but I am sure that HG can’t post that on YT – not as is, anyway.
Although I am sure if an audio were available to purchase in the Knowledge Vault, it would get some clicks.
Ah, here’s Sophie’s side of the story……
Upon this story, Sherlock Holmes’ monocle would have fallen off in shock before he recomposes himself, while Watson is laughing away……
So, Alex used his belt, Sophie used her scarf – both were used? Or, a slight change in the story on both parts?
“toys she brought”, “he brought (toys)”……
Role-play, submission by him, both played dominants…..
Are they both hoovering (in more ways than one !!)….(smirk)
Are they both indirectly / directly blame-shifting / projecting onto the other (another smirk) as if one is the one ‘leading’ the other yet both are doing as such…..
‘Obsession’, 10 Laws of Possession’, mirroring, reflections, ‘The Rules of Seduction’….. so many pieces of HG’s work, as if the ‘tendrils’ (pipelines) of his work ‘It’s All Connected’…..
Both their one friend show concern ie to take it slow, not cut themselves off from their usual lives, then again, what are their friends….. empath / normal / narcissist? Concern, if empaths. Jealousy / envy, if narcissists.
Ian Wynne, Ashley and Peter – Triology spring to mind……with the brother, friend and nanny giving their side of the story……
HG is also testing us, to measure our learning, as well as providing entertainment. Are these two stories fiction, or not…..
Would Alex dress up as Chewbacca when they go to the cabin next??
Asp, HG is definitely testing us, and I love it
Yes, FM1T, I think it may have been in a ‘Delivered By God’ thread where HG says something about always testing us (on our learning progress / process).
Must. Not. Become. Ensnared…😵💫
Say whuuut? Can anyone else think straight after reading this? 🫠
“Alex sent a dick pic, teasing.”
Now. Okay. Dick pic on deck. I know she sent a picture, but if I recall, she was a bit covered up. There’s just something about the unexpected dick pic that screams “narcissist” for some reason. Dick pics always feel so random and aggressive. I mean–bam–there it is. They tend to be a bit of a shock, even if it’s a dick you know. But don’t get me wrong. I’m not entirely anti dick pic, as such. It’s just that they can be…sort of. Actually, some of my best friends have been dicks. But, there’s just something about that dick pic that says “I control you”.
I mean, a dick pic is just really narcissistic, don’t you agree? It’s just such a display. Innit?
And Sophia does volunteer at a shelter. Not that a narcissist wouldn’t do that, but still. A shelter would be full of “low” people. Although maybe her volunteering consisted of writing insipid word salad on bananas…
I just don’t know yet. It’s sounding like maybe he’s ensnaring her. In vino veritas, and all that.
I’m on emotional thinking and ensnarement in Sophia now.
Maybe.
That’s it. I’m making a spreadsheet.
“Dick pics always feel so random and aggressive. I mean–bam–there it is”. Yes, 💯 Bam…I’m in the meeting, actually…
I like the way you put it – ” I control you” – exactly.
I agree that a dick pic can be indicator of a narcissist, but not always. My ex husband, who was a narc, has never sent me a dick pic, even during golden period, but he did ask for nudes or videos a lot.
I agree Arya! Random and aggressive 🤨
Interesting that you never got any. It’s typical that he pressed you for nudes. It appears they don’t all do it if they have other ways they wish to assert control, or if they’re a different flavor of narcissist.
My second ex sent them to me quite often, even after we married. He was a narc. I’d open my messages and it was, “Oh. I see. Yes, that is your penis.” Just there, not doing anything in particular. Tons of pictures. Like a vacation slideshow if you went to NASCAR, but came back with only pictures of a particular wrench. “Did you at least eat funnel cake, for goddsakes?”
“Why the hell are there pictures of a dick here?!” “What question is this meant to answer?”
But the dick pic is a classic. In certain instances, it can be a nice little surprise, but beneath that, it’s always a shocker. I used to struggle to figure out why I was the one who felt degraded. I suppose because it’s a type of psychic invasion, and a type of threat. It reminds me of school when a boy would pull your pigtails or punch you in the stomach if he liked you. It helps when I think of many narcissists in this way–if they’re interested, they’ll let you know, but you will be probed in some way.
Love your SOH Allison 😄
Thank you. But it’s only on loan.
Ha!
Allison,
“Oh. I see. Yes, that is your penis.” Just there, not doing anything in particular. Tons of pictures. Like a vacation slideshow if you went to NASCAR, but came back with only pictures of a particular wrench. “Did you at least eat funnel cake, for goddsakes?” 🤣 this made me laugh.
Yes, Idk why he didn’t, he is MMR type A Elite, maybe it is somehow connected. He did send it erected behind jeans a few times, while we were away from each other and sexting, but not like in full view. My first husband also never did send, he was a bit paranoid, actually. In general, out of all my relationships short or long (there were narcs among them, if not all), only one sent me dick pics, it was short online affair, he was Lower Mid R Elite narc.
” it can be a nice little surprise, but beneath that, it’s always a shocker. I used to struggle to figure out why I was the one who felt degraded. I suppose because it’s a type of psychic invasion, and a type of threat.” Well said. I agree.
Hi, Arya–
“In general, out of all my relationships short or long (there were narcs among them, if not all), only one sent me dick pics, it was short online affair, he was Lower Mid R Elite narc.”
Uh oh. I started trying to calculate narc-to-relationship, then dick-to-narc ratios, until I realized I didn’t have the sample size of narcs or the population size for relationships, and I certainly wouldn’t ask.
I think being a narcissist with a penis is a type of perfect storm.
Hi Arya:
I haven’t really dated. Funny thing to admit at my age. I go from one very long relationship to the other and even brief affairs (two), one remains a friend. So this is new, I met a guy in Denmark in person briefly , he was younger but attractive. Ok fun. But he sends me these nude videos of himself. I told him it was ok as he is hot and says he likes to be “ un-edited”. I researched him, he is real used to play for pro football for Denmark and is now a school teacher ( the latter I cannot confirm). But I told him I won’t send nude photos. I will never but a fling yes. But then I went to a funeral got drunk and unfortunately told him that it was not normal, was he a stripper? A gigalo? How could a teacher behave like that? He apologized. Said he was embarrassed. And is really into me. I called him everything from catfish to Russian mafia to Nigerian but other than a couple of nude videos after we have met, he really seems genuine and real and kind. I am totally unsophisticated with internet “ dating” but I also fear meeting with someone I met once in a coffee house who was able to send nude videos. Am I stupid or smart? I think being newly divorced after 25 years of knowing two men, I just don’t know how to date. I also know some countries are less let’s say reserved with nudity but I don’t know. He has been respectful since and wants to meet me again. But? I don’t know. Is nudity normal?
My husband then sent it as a gift when he was in the UK. He was quite proud of the Sergeant Major. To be fair, I think some men think they are giving in that regard. In person, hell yeah. But online NO but do they really get it? Maybe there are women who take it as a complement even those in a marital relationship. I just think men are visual sexually so many think they are “ giving” in this regard. But ??????????
Dear Contagious,
I’ve had Danish and Swedish besties and they are very relaxed with nudity, it’s part of their culture….. naturalists!
Back in the day, when one was invited to their house and they were sitting outside, one was not allowed in unless you got your gear off …..no one battered an eyelid.
They’d walk around nude in front of their families, thought nothing of it.
So, when in “ Rome “ hahahaha
Follow your intuition lovely one, if you would like a fling …. go for it ! The only thing you’re gonna lose is your knickers, temporarily hehe
Take the “feel good” moments, as long as it’s safe to do so
All the best lovely
Batted, not battered.
Dear Bubbles:
I had to laugh. I heard that about the Nordic culture…and although my ancestors are from there…I guess I have a prudish streak!
Thank you for your reply. You are such a warm, embracing lovely person… even though online I am grateful you are a friend.
As for me, sigh, post divorce I am a fish out of water. Not sure what I want. And not ready for the day to day serious stuff. I am giving it to God and navigating new waters… wish I wasn’t.wasnt the plan but it is what it is. Xxx
Dear Mr Tudor,
My spell check has a mind of its own, what I type, how’s it changed and what’s actually sent is pure pot luck, haha, however, I feel special you’ve read it and corrected it, it’s like being at school again.
Thank you 🍎
Dearest Contagious,
Thank you so kindly sweet one.
I’ve also been to nude beaches, nude saunas n spas, waaaay back in my wild days when I was stunningly gorgeous haha
Nothing wrong with being prudish either lovely. I’ve never been one to flaunt it or expose myself and funnily enough men found that more alluring and exciting wondering what delicacies lie beneath haha
Stick to your principles lovely and always keep em guessing haha
Hi Allison,
I enjoy your funny comments! Good to see you back. 🥰xx
Allison 🤣🤣🤣
“Don’t call it a comeback…”
Hi Allison,
I vaguely remember having a conversation about dick pics on here ages ago. I’ve never been sent one. I can estimate my response to receiving one though.
It would go something a little like this.
“ Oh do eff off.”
That might be why then. Haha! It smacks to me of pure desperation. It negates any subtlety of the chase. The chase is important to me, it signifies investment in a prize worth winning. It also rules out most narcs, too difficult, too much energy required.
Well, if they can’t invest at the start, no chance they’ll manage to invest later. I’m not saying I won’t chase back, I enjoy that part. I’m not an ice queen, but overall, I think there’s a lot to be said for the chase.
Well said TS.
Hello TS,
I agree with you. If a guy sends a dick pic, he shows disrespect, though he might not think so. If a man is serious and has some brains, he would never send it to a woman he is “chasing” ( I don’t like this word though, I don’t want to be chased or conquered anymore, relationship is not a hunt or a war).
But you haven’t probably been on dating scene recently. It’s pretty much unavoidable to meet some intellectually impaired, brain damaged, “look at my muscles”, essentially painfully dull and boring, somatic narcissists, who think it’s appropriate to send his tool out of the blue, after I just said: “Hi”. I came to the conclusion recently, that HG was right about online dating sites. I’ve deleted all of them. Just waste of time.
I love the way you put things, Arya! 😄
“It’s pretty much unavoidable to meet some intellectually impaired, brain damaged, “look at my muscles”, essentially painfully dull and boring, somatic narcissists, who think it’s appropriate to send his tool out of the blue, after I just said: “Hi”.”
I’m not prudish but always thought this is such a weird thing to do!
Hi, Jade–
“Have you ever got “attached” in a relationship, Allison?”
I’ve gotten obsessed, but those couldn’t be called real relationships because they were people I had limerence for who never reciprocated. That lack of reciprocation fed the limerence, sometimes for years. It becomes hellish and turns in on itself, so it’s not that I’m attached in a relationship; I am attached to the state, the fantasy of a relationship.
That limerent object is always so very special, but there’s an unreality to it so there’s no true “attachment”, if I get your meaning. Narcissists and narcissistic people especially awaken that in me, over and above the basic addiction which is a different thing. Inside, with everyone, I always feel detached.
Thanks for sharing Allison. I’ve been there with the limerence too. It truly is hell. I know what you mean though, I think the unreciprocated dynamic means deep down we know we won’t get attached even if it looks like that’s what we’re after. I’m realising with one ex about that particular addiction you talk of. It’s a different “flavour” to the usual…
Hi Arya,
Great decision as regards the dating sites. Aside from the prevalence of narcissists on there, to be judged primarily on the basis of a photo with a synopsis of likes and dislikes just feels all wrong to me. It’s so appearance based, so staged, it’s no wonder it draws so many Somatics.
I’d be rubbish at making a profile, I set up an Instagram account a while ago but I cringed so hard I never used it. I think I’m just an intensely private human!
If someone sends an unsolicited dick pic, they are literally showing you their brains. The proper thing is to not respond and block, but I rather like:
I am SO sorry about the accident. I DO hope it heals.
Best
Then block for sure.
Do as HG says, not as I do.
NA,
Or,
“What? And that’s your best side?”
Block.
LMAO 😆🤣😆
Haha, NarcAngel and TS))
@NA
Key word here is “unsolicited” because sometimes it’s necessary to know you’re not wasting your time
Has there ever been a solicited dick pick? 🤭
This made me laugh out loud!
@GP
Yes of course! Try it some time, make them work to impress you, tell them to get a better angle or you’ll have to punish them, go full dominatrix, I believe in you
Hi Arya, Allison, Jade and TS,
“It’s pretty much unavoidable to meet some intellectually impaired, brain damaged, “look at my muscles”, essentially painfully dull and boring, somatic narcissists, who think it’s appropriate to send his tool out of the blue, after I just said: “Hi”.”
I’m going to enter this conversation about dick pics a bit like a scientist with glasses wearing a white coat and holding a clipboard.
Studies have shown …
Seriously though, there is scientific research that shows a gender difference in the way men’s and women’s brains are activated when it comes to audio-visual sexual stimulation.
Briefly, research has shown that men in general find physical displays of sex that expose body parts and genitalia in a graphic way to be more arousing.
Women in general find erotic stories with a particular mood or concrete story-line that unfolds and includes characters and dialogue to be more arousing.
The research has found that men and women differ with regard to how their brains are wired to respond to sexual stimulation.
It explains why the majority of men are aroused by porn with its focus on body parts and the general objectification of women; while women historically have been more aroused by ‘bodice-ripping’ romance novels where the brooding dark, tall hero eventually locks lips with the heroine.
This gender difference may explain why men believe it is a good idea to send a dick pic to a woman they’re interested in. They probably think the recipient will be aroused by it in the same way they would be if they received a closeup picture of an areola or butt crack or something.
Indeed and this demonstrates two further aspects.
1. Why so many men get it wrong and end up frustrated and anti-women, thus becoming susceptible to the overtures from the likes of Andrew Tate.
2. Why the apex predator that understands the way a female´s mind works enjoys even greater levels of success.
Thank you WN and HG. Very interesting discussion on gender differences and narcissism.
@wisernow
I guess I’m no better than a man, because as long as it’s consensual I’d take the dick pic over the erotic novel. But I agree with you that there are inherent differences between male and female sexuality on average
Thank you, HG.
There are some fundamental differences in the way men and women think about sex and what each considers ‘sexy’. It helps to know about these differences if you’re a man or a woman.
Women consider a man as a whole person with a personality rather than focusing on his naked body parts.
This is why male centrefold magazines didn’t catch on and why there are no ‘Only Fans’ platforms that feature men – and if there are, they are far less popular.
I do get the impression some women (maybe more narcissists) would be happy looking at body parts alone … 🤔
I remember reading about the scientist who was behind the “belle da jour” memoirs saying she was very much more “like a man” and liked discussing the mechanics rather than emotions re sex. Just shows I think, we’re all different though I think broadly there is gender patterns.
Hi, WN–
Great analysis. Love the lab coat. I agree with your points overall on the differences and reasons why. But, my god–I’m just going to go ahead and write my initial reaction, though. And I’m being serious–this was my very first thought. It just welled up unbidden in me. Those easily offended should avert their eyes now:
None of this explains why I get so turned on by bukkake porn.
Really sorry.
Are you a cake decorator or a painter since you enjoy a good coating?
@Jade
I find it interesting that there are people who don’t appreciate body parts. I took a friend to a male show for her birthday, it was a full house. It seems that women are all for it within certain contexts
You’re welcome, Jade.
I think the human brain is endlessly fascinating. It’s so complex, plus it’s difficult to study in an accurate, scientific way.
Hi Witch,
Yes, I agree with you to an extent. When I found out about this research about gender differences in relation to what men and women find sexy, I thought about my own views of erotic romance novels.
I think it depends on the novel and the way it’s written. I read a few typical ‘bodice-ripper’ books when I was about 14 years old. By the time I was 15, I stopped reading them. I thought they were formulaic and predictable, and that made me think they were badly written and boring.
When it comes to noticing men and their ‘body parts’ (so to speak), the same kind of thing applies. It depends on the man and the context.
For example, if I see a man who is an obvious gym-junky and has big muscles, it makes me think he is probably on steroids and is obsessed with the way he looks.
On the other hand, if I see a man who looks good in his clothes because he is toned and has muscle definition, I think it’s very attractive. However, his personality is still way more important.
When it comes to scientific research, I think it helps to keep a couple of things in mind.
In order for the research to result in definite or meaningful patterns, it needs to be based on a large population group. Also, the parameters of the thing that is studied need to be well defined.
Since the research results are based on a large group of people, and the parameters are so specific, the patterns that come out of the study are very general and superficial.
It’s like having a bell-curve. Most of the population would end up somewhere around the middle. There would also be a substantial number of people in the results who would be at each end of the bell curve.
Hi again Jade,
“Just shows I think, we’re all different though I think broadly there is gender patterns.”
Yes, I agree.
Hi Allison,
I can’t help you there. That’s something you’ll have to figure out for yourself.
Thanks for all the replies, interesting convo and also thank you Allison.. I learnt a new thing, today that I didn’t know before! 🤣 I tried to use the paint splatter emoji but it didn’t work!!
@Allison
It’s alright, some things don’t need to be explained. I like some crazy things in fantasy… in reality I’d probably be scared. In fantasy you can control everything, in reality you can’t control everything about the other person, smells, textures and the rest it’s, unpredictable. In my head I can shag 2 men at once and they exist for me and nothing bad happens, reality would be different
You’re welcome, Jade … and thank you for the discussion as well.
Welcome to the blog, by the way 😊
Thanks WN and for the welcome. Sorry I missed these comments. It’s actually been a lot of fun so far alongside the learning! 😂 It’s nice to have so many empaths (and HG of course) in one place.
You’re welcome, Jade.
There’s no need to apologise. You didn’t miss any comments.
I think I miss comments here too because I don’t receive notifications and I comment when possible which may not be every day.
Good point @witch
I could probably enjoy a show like that.. I think it’s the idea of the randomness of a isolated dick pic that I find off-putting 🤔😄 and when people (any gender) only seem to like a very specific part… 🦵👀👃mmm
Hi, TS–
I find it very interesting how you experience that. Regarding the chase, narcissists give me a feeling of being both attracted and repulsed at the same time, but I can avoid the actual chase with them because none of it is real. My problem with relating to normal or empathic people is that I don’t like the chase itself very much. I experience it as uncertainty mostly. Very rarely do I get a feeling of being nicely surprised about something. Sometimes I can talk myself up about the chase and whip up some feeling about it, but deep down, it feels like a waste of time, and it’s too stressful.
You’ve caused me to consider much.
With narcissists, it’s not so much a chase as it is a movie of a chase. There’s detachment and suspension of disbelief. There’s even entertainment and overpriced snacks. Maybe that’s part of their appeal for me and part of their danger.
For an empath, I have to admit I’m not much of a love devotee. Mostly, I don’t like to talk to a potential sex partner about their tender feelings so much as I like to talk about real or imagined activities (feelings on the lust level). Isn’t the chase about more tender feelings? I dunno. I only stumbled into longer-term relationships somehow. No real plan.
I tend to find interest in a “chase” where there’s no real chance of me ever being caught or catching them; therefore, not an actual chase. At the end, I don’t like to feel like I’ve fallen into a vat of molasses. Maybe that’s why so many of them show me their dicks? They’re trying to get right to the point, as it were?
Or perhaps…Am I the asshole here? Am I the jerk? Do I signal that I want more when I don’t actually? Is it unfair not to let them know I’m just going through the motions of relating when I don’t really want to relate?
You’ve stated your thoughts well, as always. Sometimes I wish I could find the sweet spot between sentimentality and assault.
Hi Allison,
I felt guilty when I read this. I think my comment might have come across as ‘my way or no way’ or like I was taking the moral high ground. I apologise if that’s how it seemed, it wasn’t my intention.
I’ll clarify.
First, I think it depends what a person is looking for. If it’s casual sex, or a short term fling then the chase is largely irrelevant. There I think it’s a case of making sure you are safe, being honest and open about what you want, enjoying it for what it is, and that’s pretty much it. It’s the honesty about what you both want that’s probably most important in that scenario. I have no issue with casual sex, as in, I have no moral issue with it.
Personally, I’ve never had casual sex, or a casual fling. Not once. It isn’t because I’m morally against it, it’s just a function of the way I’m made. I don’t feel sexually attracted to someone until I care about them. Not love necessarily but I have to care about them as a person. So, you and I could be in a bar, the best looking guy in the world joins us for a drink. I would notice he was attractive, handsome, beautiful whatever, but I wouldn’t find him sexy. I wouldn’t be attracted to him. It’s more like appreciating a beautiful car or painting. Yes, it’s beautiful, that’s it.
So immediately, you can see how the chase gains significance for me. At the start I don’t notice, it’s just a guy in a bar, or a guy I’m hanging out with, part of the group, working with, whatever. As the friendship develops, I get to know him better, then I’ll start to notice him more. I’ll gradually find him sexually attractive. I do go for attractive men, it’s just I’m not sexually attracted at the start.
In terms of the chase. You mentioned not liking uncertainty. This is probably the part I like most. The comment that could be interpreted one way or another. Did he just flirt with me, or is he just having a laugh? I’m also pretty dumb at the start when it comes to someone flirting. I either don’t notice or I’m too busy being sarcastic for it to land with me. Basically, I start off just having a good time, happy, and largely oblivious.
So when it comes to sex, if I’m at the point of sleeping with someone, I already care. I care, so I bond. I can’t separate sex from bonding, therefore I can’t just have casual sex.
Sometimes I think I’ll look back when I’m old and regret not having had more sexual partners, but really that’s a moot point. For me to have casual sex it would amount to having sex with someone I’m not remotely attracted to and that’s just a recipe for rubbish sex. I’ve never had rubbish sex either, I just haven’t had many sexual partners.
So it’s slightly different for me I think than it is for you. You have more options. The ‘chase’ is more relevant when you are looking for long term relationships. Then, getting to know someone first, taking it slower, building a foundation I think is more relevant and is the reason why I automatically advocate it.
Haha! I’m not a love devotee either. Well I am, but not in the slushy sense. I don’t talk much about feelings, I’m not about being serenaded in the pouring rain, or finding your love language, that isn’t me at all. There are a few scenes in movies that move me, I do like some romantic gestures but ordinarily, I’m not a clear love devotee either.
I don’t think you are an asshole or a jerk. I think often people are unsure of what it is that they are actually looking for. Or they are clear but maybe they feel that their needs are unacceptable to others. I think we can only be honest with ourselves. You might not know what you want from one person, but meet someone else and be very clear. Relationships can be confusing to start with I think, there’s an awful lot riding on some of them.
Sometimes, flirtation with someone unattainable can be fun, a boost of sorts, just be careful not to do that all of the time though. It can feel safe, but it can also be fear related. Making choices based on fear tend not to be the best choices!
In terms of narc relationships, well we’ve all messed up there I think. I say we give ourselves a break on that. Avoid them going forward and we stand a fighting chance. Narcs do tend not to go the distance though. Too eager to tap into that fuel, too quick to move things forward. If you feel rushed into anything at all, casual or otherwise, take note of that feeling, register it and consider who you might be dealing with. The rest of it I think is likely trial and error but at least it’s safe trial and error.
I hope this clears up my original comment to you. We all have our quirks when it comes to relationships, some of us are just more honest than others.
Hi, TS–
I was surprised to read that you felt guilty! It never crossed my mind to think that you were taking the high ground. Thank you for expanding, but I think you came across perfectly in your original response. Perhaps I was unclear, as I was trying to express how fascinating I found our differences in regards to relationships.
No matter the sex of the person I’m into, I just never get to that feeling of intimacy, which I understand to be a sense of closeness and bonding. To me, it sounds like a sort of syncing involved with caring, a type of mutuality and comfort, even if it’s short-term. I’ve almost felt that way with women, but not quite. I still end up turning away.
“Sometimes, flirtation with someone unattainable can be fun, a boost of sorts, just be careful not to do that all of the time though. It can feel safe, but it can also be fear related. Making choices based on fear tend not to be the best choices!”
I agree with that. I think what I’m wary of is feeling suffocated. Looking back, I can identify a probable narcissist who made me feel suffocated during the Golden Period. All that loving attention and flowers and words. The hugging. At the time, I thought it was out of “caring”, so it made me feel too stuck. Otherwise, if there’s no sap, sexual interactions with narcissists offer me a way out.
“For me to have casual sex it would amount to having sex with someone I’m not remotely attracted to and that’s just a recipe for rubbish sex. I’ve never had rubbish sex either, I just haven’t had many sexual partners.”
I’m pleased you haven’t had rubbish sex. I’ve had rubbish sex, but it wasn’t because it was casual as you describe it; it was typically the mechanics, or if I found out they were particularly stupid or something. Stupid has worked in the past related to grudge fucking, but that was about it. I just hate stupid people so much.
“If you feel rushed into anything at all, casual or otherwise, take note of that feeling, register it and consider who you might be dealing with.”
I really appreciate your expressing your concern. You mentioned needing to care about the person before feeling attracted to them, which was interesting. I can be, and often am, attracted to people I know very little about, so I can’t know them as people, and I seek out flirting or sex with them. I do like them, but I don’t want to spend tons of time getting to know them better. Therefore, I don’t feel especially rushed. I just don’t want to get bored or trapped.
I like your descriptions because they contained a lot of information, and I got the sense that you get up close emotionally when it’s appropriate for you. I hope I’m accurate in the following. It seems sex for you is possible chiefly if you have feelings towards that person. It sounds like you experience genuine intimacy, and you benefit from it, and your partners have as well. I think that’s good.
As for me, I think I need to drop the pressure on myself to feel close. That’s where much of the distress comes from. It’s like I’m always watching from a distance, but that’s how I am, and trying to change that wouldn’t be a good use of my energies. So, in your bar example, I’d likely seek to make my way into his bed if I sensed something that indicated it would be a good time. I guess that would be casual? I tend to get turned on by people with a lot between their ears, but they don’t need much behind their eyes. Therefore, if he were intelligent as well as a good overall package, I could go to bed with him and really like it.
I find it difficult to have something easy like that with normal people. I take a particular delight in “straight” couples, and there was a woman who reacted with tender feelings afterward. She wanted us to be together. This made trouble with her boyfriend, and I didn’t want all that drama. She even started showing up at places where I was, looking for me. I started feeling like I was caught up in something, so I had to leave her alone. Things got drastic, and I don’t like it when things get drastic.
It’s a pickle. A person can be my all-consuming limerent object on Tuesday morning, then barely cause a ripple in me by Thursday lunch, regardless of what happened on Wednesday. Then I’m back in love again. I’m built for narcissists.
Hello TS,
“At the start I don’t notice, it’s just a guy in a bar, or a guy I’m hanging out with, part of the group, working with, whatever. As the friendship develops, I get to know him better, then I’ll start to notice him more. I’ll gradually find him sexually attractive. I do go for attractive men, it’s just I’m not sexually attracted at the start”.
“I don’t feel sexually attracted to someone until I care about them.”
It is very interesting, TS. So you have never experienced an instant attraction? Like bam, and you feel like you have been struck by a lighting ? It’s usually, when the eyes met, the first look. For me, it’s quite opposite to what you have described. I either like someone from the start or don’t like. It doesn’t matter what he might do next trying to “conquer” me with gestures, gifts or words. If it’s not there inside me from the start, nothing would change that later.
Everyone goes for attractive man)) No one wants a short, fat guy, I believe? As HG has explained it in one of his videos about physical attraction, it’s our nature. We all judge someone first by the looks. Everything else comes after.
I wish I’d had the ability to turn off limerence, like you, Allison! I think you sound like you know what you like and you’re upfront and don’t play games.
I need to get to know someone too. I can appreciate someone is good looking but I don’t think I’d feel attraction (or not) till I found out more what they’re like.
I never wanted to be like my mum (Uber religious, no sex before marriage) but realised through trial and error lol that I’m not built for casual either. My twenties would have been easier if I had been! I think my problem was I’d get to know someone and then feel attracted but that takes a lot for me, which they’d not necessarily know, and often were more casual than me.
Arya.. this made me chuckle
“Everyone goes for attractive man)) No one wants a short, fat guy, I believe?”
Hi Allison,
I’m not sure what it was in your comment that prompted me to review my own but thank you for interpreting me correctly and for the further clarification of your own thoughts.
That feeling of being smothered in a relationship. I don’t have a wealth of experience to draw from but I have felt that way once and funnily enough it was with Best Sex Ever Guy who was a MMRA Somatic. He would cook for me too. I’d get in from work and ten minutes later there would be a knock at my door and it was him telling me he had made dinner for me. ( He lived in the apartment below mine). I didn’t ask him to cook. I didn’t want to see him every night I was home, but it was a way of monopolising my time. He would offer to drop me off and collect me late after clubbing with friends. I’d make plans to see family and he would present me with tickets for an event that happened to be for the same weekend.
I got to the point where as I was driving up the driveway I would see movement in his apartment window and it would irritate me straight away. We could arrange not to see each other one night ( I was often sleep deprived from the all nighters) and he would show up anyway with a bottle of wine in hand. Despite my initial irritation he would kiss me in that way he did, move to that little dip behind my collarbone and that was that, night off out the window! ( the dip thing is just unfair)
Monopolisation of time, essentially, smothering. I did wonder if perhaps this is what you had experienced when attempting a longer relationship. It drove me insane, I am independent and introvert to boot so time monopolisation is a no go for me. If he was my only experience of an intimate relationship, I think I would have been very put off by the concept too.
“I think I need to drop the pressure on myself to feel close.” Absolutely! You can’t force yourself to feel something you don’t feel and also you aren’t on the clock here! This might be a little symptomatic of the world we now find ourselves in. Everything is fast, instant or ‘the condensed version.’ You might be setting unrealistic expectations for yourself. Just enjoy the process and forget the plan.
The other thing I think is consider your expectations of what you suppose a longer term intimacy to mean. It means whatever the two people involved want it to mean! For example, I’m not into the overly romantic gestures, flowers on Valentines, talking about feelings all the time. I’m rubbish at confiding. 99% of the time, if there’s a problem I don’t want to have to analyse and discuss it to death with my partner, I prefer to deal with it myself in my own way. I don’t want a partner to be able to read my emotions the second I walk in. I do that admittedly but I don’t want it done to me.
Basically, I don’t want a partner who is the mirror image of me emotionally, quite the opposite in fact. I want a partner who has something interesting to say, who is bright, who I admire, who makes me laugh, who turns me on, who has his shit together, who go gets and who steps up on the rare occasion I need him to. I prefer his strengths to be my weaker areas, our own realms where each defers to the other’s area of expertise. Most of all, I don’t want this new age kind of guy who is in touch with his feminine side, that would drive me insane and it’s not attractive to me at all.
I think I can have all that in a long term relationship. Keep my independence with someone who adds to my life rather than takes.
I’m more suited to a narcissistic or narcissistic normal category of individual. There’s plenty of those around, just takes a while to find them.
I suppose what I’m saying here is, be careful not to view a longer term relationship as one that sounds like the fake creation of a MMRA. That isn’t the way genuine intimacy looks.
Xx
Hi Arya,
No I have never experienced instant attraction, no bams or lightning strikes.
What I meant about the attractiveness aspect is that considering that I don’t experience instant attraction, I still end up with an attractive guy. So it isn’t that I’m oblivious to attractiveness or don’t allocate importance to it, it’s just that I am not affected by it to begin with.
Their eyes met across a crowded room, she turned to her friend and whispered, “ Yeah, he’s alright, good looking I suppose.”
Doesn’t have the same fin to it does it? Haha.
Hi, TS–
That “chef” sounds dreadful! And he was living so close, too. I don’t know how you made it without reciprocating by serving him Potatoes a la Katie Porter.
“Monopolisation of time, essentially, smothering. I did wonder if perhaps this is what you had experienced when attempting a longer relationship.”
It’s that plus the sharing of “hopes and dreams”. Then a sense of grim duty takes over, as in my marriages, and I remain stuck.
I get so bored and desperate as it goes on. I like things right at the start when I ask them, “What’s a nice place like you doing in a girl like this?”, or some other throwaway line. When they sparkle for me and doing the laundry or the shopping together isn’t a thing. I can’t stand when the shit gets real.
For me it’s the fantasy. Hence the narcissist. The simulacra.
It’s good when it’s simple. When he’s a smart guy with a strong jaw, a nice dick, and good drugs. Or the first time I have her writhing at the end of my tongue and she’s never been with a woman before.
Later, I need too much actual physical/psychological danger to keep me stimulated for the situation to be ongoing. It becomes safer for me to move on.
TS, I love this comment. It gave me a lot to think about. I think I will likely need to read it several more times. There is a lot you’re communicating that feels meaningful to me.
You mentioned the TDC elsewhere…and I was just curious… What most surprised you about your TDC results? I have not taken it.
Have you ever got “attached” in a relationship, Allison?
Hello TS,
Tbh, I cannot grasp what you are saying. Probably, I’m just too stupid to understand you. But at one comment you are saying one thing, at another – other thing contradicting the previous one. Like you are shifting in your opinions to fit a narrative and present yourself always in a good light and that you are this unreachable icy queen who men must chase and conquer, cause you are not like the rest of women who can have sex on a first date. You are above this. You are very smart and cunning.
Anyway, I don’t care, I’m freezing here, plus tonight I’m going to have sex with a very attractive guy for the first time, and I’m nervous a bit.
Arya, I can tell you that TS is not an unreachable ice queen nor is she somebody who shifts to fit a narrative. I state this from the evidence of repeated involvement with TS over a considerable period of time.
Hi Allison,
The chef was the least memorable narc, basic (that sounds bad I know) and the one who caused me least damage, practically no damage really.
In terms of the sex, definitely the stand out but, had it continued and I had entered the sustained devaluation, I think I might have changed my tune there.
It’s all a trade off really isn’t it? A case of priorities I suppose. I also think these priorities can change during the course of our lifetime. I think for example if a woman knew she definitely wanted children then her idea of what she’s looking for in a partner would be very different to that of a woman who knows she definitely doesn’t want children or whose children are adults and have left home.
“When doing the laundry or shopping together isn’t a thing.” The mundane part. I hate grocery shopping, even online grocery shopping, I get very bored or find myself in the candle section. Life is often mundane sadly, on your own or with someone, on your own you do admittedly get more candles.
The start of a relationship is the exciting part, the phantasy element we all crave. I see why fuel turns stale for the narcissist, very difficult to sustain that level of novelty long term unless it’s long distance but even that has its pitfalls as many here know.
I was driving through one of the villages today, there was an old couple sitting on a bench part way up the hill as I was stopped in traffic. Just sitting together, chatting but not in deep conversation, people watching I think. They looked happy, not overtly happy, content I suppose. The older generation seem to have it figured out. I do wonder sometimes when I see couples like that, what kind of lives they lived, or, what trials and tribulations they weathered together. I think perhaps they would tell me none of that stuff really matters in the end.
It bloody well matters at the time!
Hold to what you want Allison, whatever that might be. I don’t think there’s really a right or a wrong, we’re all so different. Narcs are trouble for the empath though, we know that, so just be careful not to get your fingers burned, or your tongue!
Hi Dani,
I’m glad you found my thoughts of interest. In terms of the TDC, at the time I was probably most surprised by the overall percentages. So, you get an overall empathic trait score and an overall narcissistic trait score as well as a detailed percentage break down of individual traits. I thought the empathic score would be lower and the narcissistic score higher. That probably surprised me most. The strongest empathic traits and strongest narcissistic traits were as I would have expected, at least once I saw what they all were! (I didn’t know what the traits were when I took it.)
I took the TDC very early on, shortly after the EDC. I was still very hurt, upset by the online narc thing and my ET was very high. I do think I am more gentle when my ET is up, so it’s possible that this impacted the percentages to a degree, by how much is difficult to say. I doubt it would be any more than a 10% shift though. The test is very well constructed so I would estimate that the drop in my ET would have limited influence on the outcome.
The TDC is my favourite detector. Incredibly useful.
Hi Arya,
Hi Arya,
I don’t see myself as above anyone else.
In my first comment to Allison I was thinking only from my own experience, someone who doesn’t feel instant attraction and hasn’t had casual sex.
I expanded my second comment to include and focus on Allison’s experience, not just mine as I had done originally. I’m not opposed to casual sex, it’s just something that wouldn’t work for me personally and I explained the reason why that is the case. I recognise that other people are wired differently and view sex differently to me and I don’t have any issue with that, nor should I.
My later comment to Allison was to further look at things from her perspective and relay my own experience with the MMRA and ‘feeling smothered’ for context. I stated what I look for in a long term relationship as, like Allison, I am not traditionally romantic.
You commented that you had removed yourself from dating apps. I expressed relief at this being the case and expanded on why I personally dislike the idea of using an app for dating.
You commented that no one says they want to date the ugly guy. I clarified what I meant by attractiveness. As in, just because I don’t feel sexually attracted to someone until I get to know them, doesn’t mean I don’t assign importance to attractiveness. I also confirmed I haven’t experienced the lightning flash moment and joked that my dead pan response to an attractive guy in a bar doesn’t have a great ring to it.
My focus changed from me to Allison. Maybe this is why you feel I am being inconsistent, I don’t know.
hey TS:
I asked HG if the fact I wanted a fling with a hot younger Barrister London Rugby player post divorce…if that meant my empathy eroded. I made him laugh… no. To be honest after a long term marriage, I am not ready. Problem is this man wants to marry me and have me move to UK. I can’t. We remain lovers until I guess one of us settles down. I guess per HG sexual flings for an empath are ok. I must admit I am happy as I regret none of it. But I worried as I have spent almost three decades with two men so I am unsophisticated. But no regrets:)
TS:
What if he was unbelievably desirable. What if he did befriend you even years. What if he even would marry you, but you could not after leaving a narc relationship after 12 years. But the sex was off the charts. He was very safe. Wants more. Always. I guess the question is: is casual sex ok for an empath? Ever? I am new to it, no regrets. HG said I wasn’t lowering my empathy. ??? And I am opening myself to the wide world of women who got divorced at a later age after a long term marriage and put their toe into dating. I dint know if I am lucky or cursed but the men I choose even if I want casual want more. Is it money? Me? Am I some money figure? Does my proclamations of wanting freedom attach? I probably need to sult HG yet again as I do NOt date well. The funny thing is I cannot date. I cannot date!! Why? People ask me in my world. How do you meet men and suddenly commit. Have these king ten relationships while they internet date one after the others Does meeting a man in person really change meeting him online? I have no clue…. But My intention is to do no harm. Be honest , open and kind. That’s all I can do. I can’t marry every man I meet and they are free to go.. So what’s the alternative?
Hi Contagious,
I agree, I think casual sex is ok for an empath. I don’t think having it or not having it would be indicative of empathy levels and I don’t think having it would reduce the empath’s empathy levels.
I mentioned earlier that women likely look for different things in a man at different stages in their lives. After reading your comment I should add in too that women might also view what they want relationship wise at different stages in their lives. If a woman is recently divorced after having been married for 15 years, I can understand that a long term relationship is furthest from her mind. If she is younger, knows she wants children for example, then it makes sense that her approach and the type of guy she is looking for might be different.
There are all kinds of factors that will influence what people want and when. It sounds like you are having fun, you sound very buoyant, let the good times roll!
I agree with TS, Contagious.. nothing wrong with what you’re doing, in fact, good especially after all you’ve been through. Apart from you bring a catch ❤️ I wonder if it’s human nature. You’re ok with casual so the guys want more. If you wanted more, they may not.. do you know what I mean? Just the swings and round abouts. Also I think there’s something very attractive about a woman who knows who she is, that takes us a while to grow into, doesbt it
Contagious, Truthseeker, Jade —
I think casual sex or a fling will not erode empathy outright, but it will chip away at a much deeper layer of it — rather than boosting self-esteem, as some women falsely imagine when imitating that behaviour by adopting a “thinking with their dicks” mentality.
That said, I understand that a hypersexual individual may surrender to their biological mandate — if it moves, then fuck it — to procreate at all costs, even if a meaningful relationship is not planned and it’s all “just for fun.” I don’t judge, I understand: happiness and fulfilment are sought at all costs. I only wish women and men would realise how far they are from truly finding either when using their bodies as objects for mirrored masturbation — where the aware mind is no longer present, and everything is reduced to a purely animalistic level of awareness. In doing so, they betray themselves through the slow suicide of their human soul, exchanging it for the animalistic one — which serves a completely different purpose in the grand scheme of things compared to that of a human being.
And observing women cheering other women on — essentially handing them a dagger for hara-kiri and watching them bleed to the sound of applause. Once again, it’s the result of unawareness, as neither — the woman who asks for advice nor the one who gives it — is in tune with anything deeper than societal norms that celebrate the erosion of empathy, for oneself and for others, all the while remaining undetected. Both slowly embrace the narcissist’s detached ways without realising it, sprinkling it with a touch of so-called empathy — as in, a fuck a day makes you feel better in a way — “just do it, it won’t harm you, it’s just sex.” Oh, how sadly wrong they are.
Hi Jordy,
I understand what you’re driving at here. The biological mandate is about survival of the species so the urge to have sex and particularly sex with different partners, is biologically driven by the animal part of the brain.
Psychopaths are hyper sexual. As they lack emotional empathy they are said to operate a short life strategy. Lots of sex with different partners would ensure those genes were passed on. Not interested in raising his own children and not bonded to his partner, there’s little downside to that strategy for the psychopath.
The psychopathic traits prop up the biological mandate. Impulsivity, thrill seeking, lack of fear, boldness, self assuredness, lack of shame, low or absent disgust, lack of regard for societal norms, objectification of people, pursuit of power and dominance, self focus and so on would all support the psychopath being hyper sexual.
Add in the drivers of control, stimulation and accumulation and casual sex is not only preferred but is the most logical approach. Arguably, it’s also the only option on the table when it comes to sex for the psychopath.
Society is becoming more psychopathic / narcissistic so the casual sex / short life strategy approach to sex seeps into the mainstream marketed as desirable, liberating, less about intimacy and connection, more about the pleasure of the sexual act itself.
The contraceptive pill freed women to make their own choices in terms of sex. Pre pill, an unwanted pregnancy could ruin a woman. There’s also a risk to every pregnancy. The pill levelled the playing field for women by removing these risks. Good thing, to my mind the pill was a stepping stone along the path of equality.
Like most things, I think societal effects are positive or negative depending on the person. For narcissists and psychopaths, all good, more sexually active women in the pool. For women escaping loveless, abusive, sexless marriages for example, the pill afforded them the opportunity to explore their own sexuality, likes, dislikes without fear of pregnancy. Probably the first time they ever had the opportunity to discover what felt good for themselves, which again is a positive thing in my view.
Fast forward to today and the number of young adults having sex is declining, marriage rates are declining whilst divorce rates are increasing. Loneliness and depression rates are reportedly the highest they have been and, birth rates are falling in the West. Loneliness and depression isn’t all down to sex, or lack thereof, but it will be a contributing factor. So arguably there are downsides for society as a whole. I agree that casual sex has been normalised by Western societies and it’s Western societies that seem to be suffering the most. More individualist, which again partially mirrors the casual sex approach but to my mind narcissism is the driver behind individualist culture.
In terms of empathy, I see what you are driving at. Casual sex doesn’t erode emotional empathy but it doesn’t promote long term connection and intimacy which is part and parcel of having emotional empathy.
I think overall people need different things at different times. I think it’s ok to indulge the more animalistic / biological side at certain points in our lives. If a woman escaped a sexless marriage for example, I can understand why she would want to go out and have no strings attached sex. It’s her right to do so and her right to view and want sex in that way. I also see experimentation as being a valid part of the sexual journey.
I look at it in the opposite direction to you in terms of risks to an empathic person. I don’t think that casual sex risks destroying the empathic soul. I think the emotional empathy will always reassert itself so that ultimately when the no strings fun and experimentation has run its course, the empath will naturally seek more intimacy and connection. The empathic traits will always win out.
So I see casual sex more as a short term / situational move on the part of the empath. I don’t see it as negative because I don’t see casual sex as morally wrong, I would just want the empath to be safe and certain that she is choosing that option for reasons that are wholly hers. If that is what she wants at that point in her life, if it’s a choice not a defence, I think it can be beneficial. I do definitely believe though that ultimately she will have her fill of casual sex and seek emotional intimacy and connection in a romantic sexual relationship. I think those are drivers for the empath, they won’t be held down indefinitely.
Societally, particularly in the West, we know that society is becoming more individualist which mirrors the increase of narcissism in society, and psychopathic influence on society. I agree with you here, I see that as being negative across the board. I don’t see changing attitudes to sex as being the sole reason why society is less happy or fulfilled but it’s quite possibly a contributing factor.
In my own mind, I suppose I view casual sex (for others as it isn’t an option for me personally) as being a bit like alcohol. I like a drink from time to time and I enjoy being a party girl, but I wouldn’t want to be out every night for the rest of my life.
Xx
Hello dear TS,
Great examples!
Two points I’d like to make:
The factor that led the woman into a loveless, abusive, sexless marriage is likely her unawareness and probably her empath status. When she exits one extreme and enters another — experimentation with no strings attached — she is once again at the mercy of the experimenter(s), whose casual attitude towards sex (and the very fact that they are eager to “experiment” before a serious relationship) says a great deal about their agenda. This will send her down the same path once more — through the mill of being used as an object. And in doing so, she participates in the same game herself, under the illusion that it is all in her best interest.
The pill gives her a false sense of safety and a free pass to degrade herself further. Besides, what is there truly to -experiment- with that she could not experience with one partner — someone she has taken time to know, tested over a sustained period, and with whom sexual intimacy ultimately crowns their bond? Whether it unfolds in an animalistic or tender way, it would at least be rooted in deeper dimensions — of mind and spirit first.
Sex with no strings attached is Russian roulette. An extremely aware individual might hear the bullet click — but then the question becomes: if she is truly that aware, why is she playing at all?
-2-
“More individualist, which again partially mirrors the casual sex approach but to my mind narcissism is the driver behind individualist culture.”
The collective culture — where the collective good is placed above the individual — can be just as cruel to the freedom of the human spirit.
Two extremes here.
Individualism, at the very least, preserves dignity. Where dignity for oneself is maintained and one’s own needs are clearly recognised, it becomes far more difficult to force a person into manipulation. The narcissist is acutely aware of manipulation — of any attempt of control — and cannot be controlled. Yet, paradoxically, it is the narcissist who constructs the collective culture, which is then easy for the narcissist/psychopath leader to control.
The collective = collection –> (3) accumulation , (2) stimulation, (1) control = Psychopath’s triad
Hi Jordy,
Again, I think you make valid points here.
To your first point, I think your greatest concern really is the safety of the empath and the risk of exiting one ensnarement only to fall unintentionally into another. There is most definitely a risk of that. The intention might be to just enjoy sex with a guy you find incredibly hot, not to start anything serious, just to have that physical connection and pleasure with a willing partner where both consent. If he is a narcissist then the empath is now in his fuel matrix, owned. Her ET is rising, if he’s somatic or elite, the sex was great, very tempting to meet up again. How many meet ups can the empath withstand before she begins to care about this man? Because once she cares, she’s in.
“I don’t know” is the answer to that. If the empath separates the sexual act from emotional intimacy when engaging in casual sex, then it’s possible she can just enjoy the one or two meet ups without negative consequences, but I would say there that her ET would need to be low to begin with. If she had escaped a relationship with a narcissist and then inadvertently had casual sex with another narcissist then I think she’s high risk for a second ensnarement.
If the theoretical hot guy is not a narcissist, the empath separates sex from emotional intimacy and is able to just enjoy the act itself, then I think negative consequences are fewer. Given that psychopaths and narcissists engage in casual sex most frequently though, your Russian roulette analogy is a good one.
Do I think casual sex degrades the empath, or that she is trying to be something she isn’t by engaging in it? No. But I think she has to be very clear in her own mind about where her own boundaries lie and why she has decided to engage in it. I do think sexual experimentation with a few different (non narc) partners might be beneficial. I think it could actually strengthen a connection – when the empath decides she does feel ready to enter into a long term relationship – if she actually understands what it is that she enjoys engaging in sexually. Some empaths have only ever been with narcissists, it’s possible that they are unclear as to what they like or dislike when it comes to sex. Some experimentation with a safe partner when both are up front and honest about what they want I think could be beneficial to the empath over the longer term. Yes, she could still experiment sexually with a long term partner, that’s the route I would take, but I think the novelty, excitement and freeing aspect of the casual approach is what some empaths find empowering and I can understand that too.
In terms of the pill and the possibility of it facilitating women to degrade themselves, I think for me, I will always opt for freedom of choice. The pill affords the opportunity for women to choose what they want from their sex lives just as men do, so to my mind it is a positive thing. What women then do with that choice I think is up to them. We are responsible for our own choices, what one person sees as degrading another might find enjoyable. For me, again it boils down to the empath being very clear as to why she is opting to engage in casual sex. If for example she feels that it’s expected, or she feels that this is how dating looks now, or this is the only way I can access the touch or comfort of being with another person, then I think these are some examples of the wrong reasons to engage. Be sure the reasons are the right reasons is what I’m trying to say, reasons that are wholly right for you and just you.
I do agree with you that casual sex is higher risk for the empath, simply because we are targets for ensnarement. Taking it slow, getting to know someone gradually is far safer. I think perhaps some people see this as boring, or cold but for me it’s actually a really fun part! As I said previously I love the chase, I love the excitement of uncertainty, I love to flirt, joke and play around. So I really enjoy the slower approach (plus a fast approach would just make me back up) and more sensibly, it gives time to at least have a fighting chance of seeing the red flags before getting too far in. That approach is what always suited me though, I understand that people want different things at different times, and we don’t all share the same views but I’m with you on the risk element Jordy. We’ve been given the chance to at least make informed choices now, we each need to make sure that we use that knowledge in service of what suits us all best.
I see your point too about individualist versus collective culture. Extreme anything turns into a bad thing. Woke was a good thing until the narcs got a hold of it and turned it into a stick to beat us all with. Whatever the ideology you can bet your bottom dollar that there will be narcs and psychopaths capitalising on it to suit their own ends. The narcissists are winning and no one seems to know what to do about it.
Nice to see you back Jordy.
Xx
Awe, thank you, dear TS. I come when I can (unintended pun!), and I love chatting with you, as ever!
I agree about the explorer aspect, but only under one circumstance — if the exploration leads to the realisation that the thrill of exchanging heads on a variety of different bodies doesn’t quite cut the mustard, and that an individual is capable of something far deeper in their intimate relationships.
Before that realisation, it’s Russian roulette – holding a gun to one’s own head – or, to let HG’s words strike once more: “But Sophia was already texting Alex, lost in her obsession, craving the next hit.”
Hi Jordy,
“Exchanging heads on a variety of bodies.” Gawd, what an image! You do know I visualise a lot right?! 😂
You made me think there though, perhaps that’s why I don’t feel attracted to someone until I get to know them first. My starting point, where I recognise someone as being attractive without feeling anything, is probably quite similar to what objectification feels like. In my world, I’m somehow not seeing a person until much later. I’m seeing a toaster.
I don’t do toasters.
Xx
TS, no problem. The image is accurate. People encounter others, most of the time, through a filter of objectification first: not through a filter of “it’s alive; he or she has feelings, a story, ideas, wishes, and dreams.” It’s a sexual scan, or a mating-ability scan, so to speak: “is it fuckable or not?” That’s why somatic and elite narcissists find it so easy to breach the first barrier; they push on the open door of instinct, not on the mind or spirit, not on individuality.
From there they only need to mirror and push further and further for the sex on the first date to occur; and empaths oblige. Not because narcissists are so brilliant, but because empaths themselves objectify also (seeing a dick pic, not the individual behind it and what the dick pic signals in reality).
Hi Jordy,
I know that the primal animal part of the brain engages first, the first scan is really an assessment of health and suitability for a mate. I hadn’t equated that with objectification before now. It makes sense to me though, if I look at objectification solely in sexual terms rather than the broader ‘utility’ terms.
That’s helpful as regards my own behaviour. Thank you. It does make sense, it also means I can visualise my animal brain as a sloth!
“First assessment complete, it’s attractive. Think I’ll have a little nap now.”
Xx
I like this Allison 😄
“With narcissists, it’s not so much a chase as it is a movie of a chase. There’s detachment and suspension of disbelief. There’s even entertainment and overpriced snacks.”
Hehe. I think as I mentioned in another comment about whether an ex was a narcissist (prob not..) I’ve always preferred avoidant types till my (healthy) relationship with my husband, I think because the narc style chase has felt too weird and off-putting. My mum is a good love bomber so maybe I was always a bit suspicious of that style.
I like a bit of subtle tension and will we / won’t we, myself. We’re all different, and a lot of this stuff is wired into us at such a young age isn’t it?… I don’t think you’re the asshole. Sounds like you’re being savvy to me (avoiding that vat of molasses! 😅).
I don’t recommend it, but sex with narcissists has kept me out of that treacle, mostly. But I avoid it now. It isn’t right. I learned from Sex and the Narcissist they are essentially masturbating with my body. It hardly matters if I’m there or not so long as there’s a mirror in the room.
The strange thing is that titillates me.
I don’t know why it appeals to me that I’m not the only one–not even the only one that day. Doubtless it corrodes the soul. But it feels kind of like knowing your abdominal surgeon has had his instruments inside many other patients. I don’t care to hear a lot about it (talk of somebody else’s liver seems dull) but I like the skill it suggests. I like being attended to in the clinic for that hour. An appointment.
I much prefer the shadows to being an IPPS. And it truly is an awful thing. It’s something to do until the next thing to do. Urgent sex will serve until the love gets here, and love never gets here.
I’m physically chaste at the moment; I find sex clubs annoying for some reason but I don’t want to get tangled up in anything serious with a normal person. I don’t want to promise what I can’t deliver. Therefore, no molasses.
At least, that’s my excuse.
Thanks for sharing Allison. I think the variety of what turns humans on is fascinating. Good to take time out and do what feels right for you and it sounds like you’re reflecting and adjusting accordingly. ✊
Hello ladies:
Think about how many times you have truly loved. I think it’s rare. In my lifetime: 3, but I was very young the first. You can’t buy it, manufacture it, make it happen. You can settle but for me truly falling in love whether with the right manor not is rare. So what are you to do in between? I am finding out. The problem with flings or casual is no matter how honest it’s a risk you will hurt someone. I have found no matter how unlikely you think casual will be casual they can get attached and so can you. But I prefer male female relations. I find dating very difficult but I prefer not being alone.
I think maybe you’re just experimenting and finding out what YOU want Contagious. I settled down later and did that before, I think you were opposite from what you’ve shared and also N and Ps to recover from (who don’t help our sense of self!). There’s no right or wrong and you’re being clear and up front with people. Have fun, I say. ✊💃😄
Jordy:
I hear you. I do. Casual is nothing compared to a long term where I have spent my life from age15 onwards. But as others spoke, I am almost allergic at this point to men and another long term day to day relationship. Oddly I agree with you while the sex was great and nice to have mutual respect and a friendship, it is not the same as throwing yourself into love and a commitment for life. It’s just in between and I am not satisfied for more yet allergic to more. I will get there I hope. I also think the damage a narc does cannot be understated. I find myself in short term ( well one) relationships to be more open and then long term. But my divorc ended 4/23/25 so after 12 years of marriage, I miss a man for sex and companionship but yet also am leery of jumping in to soon. And real love cannot be bought,manifested or achieved on your own. It comes to you when you are ready. Until then, welll I had a fling. I have had a couple of flings before. Two wanted marriage. One remains a friend. That’s the real risk. My empath fling. Well… he says he loves me , thinks of me daily, and I love him and could fall deeply but not ready. He respects it. I respect him. We both want mutual happiness. Not a bad result. I simply do not date well. No apps so who knows if I will find like ve again. Very busy with my job. There has to be some empathetic way in between. But with any relationship short or long there’s risks. Agreed. X
Contagious, you’re doing fine, love, don’t worry. You walk on electricity, both in your profession and in life. Sex compensates for and releases the tension you’re under day and night; your nerves are constantly exposed to a bombardment of impressions — real, energetic, and sometimes imagined; when your brain and emotions play their tricks. Your soul and heart know what’s real; the rest may cause confusion and send you on a mad search. Your pace is part of your own unique conglomeration — it is what it is. For now, no concept can impact the energetic challenge you need to balance somehow.
With others, it’s different: they don’t have the actual energy for the sex-wheel combat; it’s the societal concept they follow without truly questioning it. And even if they did, a certain degree of brain plasticity –backed up by energy — would be required to process the answers they might receive; answers that could, in fact, prove helpful.
If it helps Allison, I found his body gorgeous. Knee weakening but at the same time troublesome. I got drunk after a funeral and asked if he was a stripper? A hooker? Catfish for the Russian mob? Just cause I met him briefly on a trip means nothing. I got 25 responses. He is real. I met h. He is embarrassed. He meant no harm. He won’t do it again and many on his sincerity and wanting to meet again. I don’t know. I am unsophisticated. Maybe some women love it or some men are truly trying to entice? They think it’s sexy and for me… well he is beautiful. I told him so. But you don’t have to risk exposure. I said I won’t do it back ever online. I think that’s smart. But I am not sure all men in an intimate relationship who send dick picks +++ are narcs. lol. I think some men are truly trying to ummm “ give to you.”
Allison and all ladies:
I consulted HG as I was truly worried about my behavior. I wanted a fling with a younger barrister rugby player. I had a wonderful magical time. Trouble is I liked it a lot. And on my next trip this year I met a younger professional former soccer player and I might have another fling. I really am not ready for serious and have been in a relationship since 16. I don’t know what I am doing but I am completely honest and open. But am I a predator now? I don’t think so but this is not a serious intent to attach. And what’s startling is you would think they would not attach!!!!!!!!! They are very eligible bachelors, in the one man’s case he has 5 properties and a legal career and hot. I told him this, who am I, you have a line of women around the world who would want you. It makes no sense …unless he just wants more two week flings and online talk. I don’t get it. But how do you “ fling” post divorce without hurting another. And how do you know they aren’t full of shit? I don’t want a husband or a serious relationship. But I don’t want to hurt another and maybe I am so unsophisticated I am not getting it. Ugh. It’s weird to “ date” at my age and after decades. I am not sure how but I am quite clear where I stand. These men you fling with then state they want more. Bullshit? . The barrister in person has asked me to marry him twice. Are they living in a fantasy? Am I just of low esteem thinking he doesn’t mean it? It doesn’t matter as truly after the divorce….It’s all I can offer … and I say this openly at this time. I am honest. From the start, throughout to the end. But so typical. I have never had a date in my life. I am selective, I focus on friendship… sex is a bond. But I don’t think all relationships must mean forever. Not now. But I am perplexed at this new world. I don’t know if he is real whether in person or online or what to do? I just want to be authenticate and I want my life to have some romance and fun. It’s tricky out there. Wish my marriage of 12 years worked but it did not. Ugh! And maybe financially fit independent women attract even with financially fit men. I have no fucking clue what I am doing post a long term divorce. None. But I hope Luke HG says having a fling does not mean empathy is low. The funny thing about me is I feel in daily life a utensil, over worked, rarely wearing make up it putting on a suit except for court. It’s only until I am with a man and he finds me beautiful that I feel beautiful. My girlfriends are my lives, my family but it’s something only a man can do. That’s why I think marriage is wonderful because who cares if the rest of the world finds you appealing if the man you love does. But anyone out there single like me know, I find it very hard to navigate. My ex was a narc. I don’t want that. I have lived empaths but not ready for that either. I am content on my own but I get lonely or want someone me fun and romance. I imagine in time I shall commit. But is there something wrong with a woman who just wants a fling? Don’t hold back. I feel guilt, and uncertainty enough.
Hi Contagious,
“The funny thing about me is I feel in daily life a utensil, over worked, rarely wearing make up it putting on a suit except for court. It’s only until I am with a man and he finds me beautiful that I feel beautiful”
☝️this is what there is to work on. Enjoy being with men, have fun, but also make *yourself* feel beautiful and then it will be even better .. You won’t *need* a man to feel it, but it’s an added bonus when this happens too. ❤️🙏
I think we’re all working on giving *ourselves* what we’ve been looking outside for, aren’t we?
Note – I know it’s hard with day to day life, kids, work etc but even if it’s carving out a little bit of time to feel less of a “utensil” and more pleasure… 🥰
Hi, Contagious–
Cool reply. I don’t think I use the word “fling” often to describe what I do or want. The word sounds airy and light–and I do like the simple involvement connotation–but I’m very heavy when it comes to the pursuit of pleasure. I don’t really fling so much as I like to seriously thrown down.
Allison:
The chase or being chased, very boring. A game. A meaningless game. I don’t get it at all.
TS, I love your response. It matched my feelings precisely.
Allison:
I laughed so hard “ throw down.” I must confess I tone it down but the reason for post divorce flings is primarily sex. I am sexual in nature. And love it like a man! I am just used to very constant long term relations. And now? I just want a throw some. lol. I am so unsophisticated with this at my age, I questioned it. But if I am honest and I am with them … why not? Oddly though they can get attached. I never want to hurt any soul and do my best. It’s just weird being in between for me. But hey I am not into being alone or sexless. Not me. I thought no ir won’t last long….but who knows? I can’t pick love like an apple off a tree… what’s a girl to do? I wish I was Gwen Stafini, left a narc with an empath next in line…. Lol