You Wait Until Later Tonight
You wait until later tonight. Oh such promise. I expect those words are already generating an excited anticipation as to what lies in store for you. When I whisper those words down the telephone line to you or in your ear as I lean down over you, you can feel that delicious tingle drift across you, like the lightest of sensual touches. How you marvel at my surprises.
Each day feels like your birthday as some new delight is sent your way. What might it be tonight? Will it be an evening out somewhere? Perhaps the prominence of a favourable table in a well-regarded restaurant? It might be drinks with my friends who have taken such a shine to you and made you feel completely at home. Then again it might be the presentation of some gift, carefully selected by reference to the desires you have and which we have learned about you from careful scrutiny of your behaviour, from a dedicated attention to what you tell us and our own expertly honed intuition borne from repeated practice. There is a myriad of opportunities and this is what makes us so special to you.
We offer so many different avenues towards pleasure, love and delight. We know what makes you tick and we utilise that to ensure you are made joyously happy. But it is the promise of what is to come that works so well. It plays to your sense of intrigue, it heightens your expectation and thrills you. Rather than giving you it now, we create a delicious sense of expectation causing you to look forward to whatever it might be with considerable hunger.
How exciting this all is, how different this is to anything you have experienced before. It is fantastic to be treated so magnificently.You wonder what the surprise is? What will come later? Perhaps with the reference being made to you waiting until later tonight it will be a passionate and sensual encounter between the sheets? The mere thought of that causes a surge of delight to rise from deep inside of you as your mind conjures up the evocative images of our last night together.
You can honestly say you have never experienced anything like it before. We set you ablaze with passion, the energy that flowed between us was tangible and the urgent union of our bodies culminated in the most scintillating of conclusions. It was truly magnificent. The throaty way we suggested to you that you wait until later tonight must surely mean that this is what is in store for you? Another earth-shattering coupling. Both your body and mind are already responding to this prospect, the warmth of anticipation flooding across your body. You replay those words that I murmured to you and think of that promise…..
You wait until later tonight. Oh such a threat. I expect those words are already generating a fearful anticipation as to what lies in store for you. When I growl those words down the telephone line to you or hiss them in your ear as I loom over you, you can feel that sinking dread crawl across you, like the dead cold grip of a wraith has touched you. How you baulk at my threats.
Each day feels like your funeral as some spiteful threat is sent your way. What might it be tonight? Will it be an evening of silence with glowering looks from across the room? Perhaps the unsophisticated onslaught of words and fists, raining down on you, blunt instruments of awful intimidation? It might be the humiliation of drinks with my friends who have taken such a dislike to you and make you feel completely isolated whenever I force you to endure them.
Then again it might be the presentation of some fabricated home truths, carefully selected by reference to the weaknesses that you have and which we have learned about you from carefully scrutiny of your behaviour, from a dedicated attention to what you tell us and our own expertly honed intuition borne from repeated practice of hurling insults at the person we supposedly love. There is a myriad of opportunities and this is what makes us so awful to you. We offer so many different avenues towards hatred, humiliation and fear.
We know what makes you sick and we utilise that to ensure you are made deliriously fearful. But it is the threat of what is to come that works so well. It plays to your sense of terror, it heightens your dread and paralyses you. Rather than giving you the abusive delivery now, we create a mortifying sense of fearful expectation causing you to have anxiety as to whatever it might be that is to be exacted against you. How terrifying this all is, how different this is to anything you have experienced before. It is frightening to be treated so horribly.
You wonder what is lurking in store for you? What will come later? Perhaps with the reference being made to you waiting until later tonight it will be an unwanted and degrading encounter between the sheets? The mere thought of that causes a surge of nausea to rise from deep inside of you as your mind conjures up the excruciating images of the last time that happened. You can honestly say you have never experienced anything like it before. We set you on edge, the venom that flowed from us was so poisonous and the urgent delivery of our abuse culminated in the most degrading of outcomes. It was truly horrific.
The malevolent way we suggested to you that you wait until later tonight must surely mean that this is what is in store for you? Another disgusting, degrading act meted out against you. Both your body and mind are already responding to this prospect, dizzying fear and pounding heart gripping you. You replay those words that I murmured to you and think of that threat….
What a difference a day makes.
The outcome may seem different to you but to us it is always the same. Whether it is seductive charmer or malevolent abuser it is about control.
The threat of what might happen is often more enjoyable/more terrible than the actual event itself.
This is what creates such considerable control.
And who do we regard as responsible for causing this?
Not us.
You are the one who thinks about what is going to happen.
You are the one who creates the scenarios in your mind.
You are the one who creates the anticipation, be it of excitement or fear.
Yet again, we are able to blame you.
56 thoughts on “You Wait Until Later Tonight”
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Dear HG,
I think my LMRVNarcissist mother enjoyed telling me, “You wait until your Dad gets home.” It wasn’t a good thing, it was a threat. It was a foreshadowing of punishment and pain, and she wanted me to imagine the pain, feel the torment of waiting and the fear of my Dad’s arrival. She made me fear my Dad’s arrival from his Naval duties overseas. I missed him and loved him, but she made sure I feared him too. I don’t know why she did this, except maybe she knew I deeply loved my Dad and she was jealous and wanted to kill my love for him, or damage it. She didn’t suceed. She failed. I loved him anyway. I didn’t blame him for believing her lies and punishing me based on those lies. He loved her and believed her. How was he supposed to know she was lying to him?
Her manipulations backfired. I resisted her for it, not him. Her lies, her deceit. I deceived myself too because afterwards, I convinced myself that she couldn’t have lied. I must have done something to deserve it, the punishment. It was only my psychopath brother who confirmed to me that it happened, we were punished because she lied about us to Dad, after he would come home. She would tell him lies, he would get mad and then we would pay for what we didn’t even do.
I loved both of my parents, despite my mother’s manipulations and my Dad’s punishments. It would all start up again with one line, ” You just wait until your Dad gets home.” Xx
I meant “recented” not resisted. Xx
My mother used my father as a weapon too. I realized that about two years ago. He would just come out of nowhere in a fit of rage. She had to be in his ear complaining about us. She would just sit in her room while it was happening and do absolutely nothing.
I’m curious about something though. What did your brother do when these things happened? Did he fight back? Did he plot revenge?
Its interesting. I hated my mother. Not my father though, even though he was a narcissist too. I had some sort of respect for him. I’m not sure why though.
Hi Leigh,
He fought back and seeked revenge. He was mother’s golden child, but she would betray him at times and he would get his paybacks, to both of my parents. He wrecked my Dad’s truck, drove my mother’s car into a deep ditch. That car would smoke and smell like swamp water because he drove it deep into the murky water. He had his way of getting them back, but yet he was able to look like it was an accident and come out innocent.
He protected me sometimes, one time he saved me from a beating because he stepped in and told Dad, “Why don’t you try beating on someone your own size?!” He then punched a hole in the wall and stared Dad down. Dad backed off and I was able to retreat to my room and shut the door.
My brother surprised me by doing that, but I still clearly remember my Dad’s reaction to my brother. My brother was a psychopath, but that day he was a hero. He saved me and I often wonder why he did. Was he a secondary psychopath and felt possessive care over me, as secondary psychopaths can develop an unstable attachment to a very few people? I read they can, could it be that? HG? Leigh? What do you think? Xx
Dear HG,
Will you go into Secondary and Primary Pschopathy and the differences? Xx I would like to discuss this further if we can? Xx
Hi Rebecca
Your brother and I sound like we could be two peas in a pod, lol. I’m half kidding, lol. We both protected but we had different things driving us.
I often punched holes in the walls and doors and had to protect my brothers as well. Thankfully the doors were hollow and cheap!
My older brother was disabled. I remember one time my father picked up a broom to use it on him. I told my father, when he was done using it on my brother, I was going to use it on him. He put the broom down. I was probably 12 or 13 when that happened.
When we were younger, I instinctively knew if we cried it would make it worse. Now I know that when we cried, we were challenging my father. I would tell my brothers, don’t cry, it only makes it worse.
I don’t know enough about primary vs secondary psychopathy so I can’t really speak to that.
Based off of what Mr. Tudor has told us, the psychopath is driven by three things, control, stimulation & accumulation. It sounds like your Dad was threatening your brother’s control over one of his objects that he accumulated and fighting back stimulated him. I hope that was ok to say. That’s what it sounds like to me.
You’ve piqued my curiosity too. I’ll have to look into primary vs secondary psychopathy.
Hi Leigh,
My brother showed possessive care towards me, which makes him a secondary psychopath. They are able to form attachments, but they are possessive attachments and based more on control and ownership than true “love feelings”, they don’t feel love, they feel possessive of you. I believe it is how my brother thought of me, his possession and he didn’t like how I was being treated.
When we were growing up and even as adults, we protected each other from other classmates and people, that incident was the first time he bucked up to Dad. He was 17 or 18 years old at the time and was big enough to hold his own.
I fought back against my mother when I was about 19 years and I snapped on her, pushed her against the wall and threatened to break her arms. We were arguing and she slapped me hard acrossed the face, I was already pissed off and when she hit me, I reacted to defend myself. She didn’t hit me again, the last time. It was at that point where I moved away from her, both figuretively and literally. I had enough of her and her manipulations and I wasn’t going to be hit again. Xx
Hi Leigh,
No worries, you can tell me what you think about my brother’s behaviors. Xx
I hope HG goes into the differences of Primary and Secondary Psychopathy. I think the Primary is like a Megeladon and Secondary is like a Great White. Primary is very cold and calculating, less emotional, whereas the Secondary is more unstable and emotionally driven to impulsively react to things and more likely to get caught, than a Primary, who are usually very intelligent and all about planning their next moves.
Another interesting fact I found out is, psychopaths are not usually pedis, that is a separate condition/category all by itself….and that means my brother had that condition as well. Xx
Hi Rebecca,
Primary vs secondary almost sounds similar to aware vs unaware or psychopath vs sociopath.
Did Mr. Tudor tell you that with secondary psychopathy they can form attachments? I thought you need empathy to truly form an attachment. I wonder if the threat to control that the psychopath is experiencing looks like attachment to certain people.
I’m sorry about your brother having pedophilia too. The ASPD or NPD is bad enough. Then too add comorbidities, it makes it so much harder.
Hi Leigh,
I don’t think I am at liberty to say what HG told me about my brother….but, I can say I have gathered some of my own various research, first hand experiences dealing with my brother and his behaviors. Some sociopaths can form “attachments” with a very few people, but it is not an emotional atrachment, more like an attachment for their own benefits. He stayed close to me, so he could mooch off me. It wasn’t because he loved me, he needed me for a place to stay. He felt possessive over me because he thought I was his to use, no one else’s. He wasn’t dumb either. He was very much mechanically inclined, meaning he could take apart mechanical and electrical products and combine them, reconstruct them and make them better. He had, in his bedroom, in my parents’ house, a whole surround sound system he constructed himself out of spare radio parts and speakers. He had hooked it up to his tv and a subwoofer. He could make a movie sound like you were at a cinena! I don’t know how he did it because my mind doesn’t work like his did. He worked on computers too. He used to rig up lights in his truck and had a cb radio, and he had it all connected.
He had my narc mother convinced that he was mentally slow and he took advantage of her lack of awareness of his intelligence.
He would show me his newest “toy” he put together, show me how it worked and I would be amazed what he made out of spare parts he found. I think he liked seeing my reactions and how amazed I was with what he did. He could have been a professional engineer, like my Dad was in the Navy. Xx
Hi Leigh,
I honestly don’t know if my brother knew he was different or not. He came up psychopath on his NDC results from HG and I already got permission a while ago to say that result. Xx
Growing up in my childhood home, I felt different from my parents and my brother, of course now I know why….I was different from them and I was very much aware of that. My nornal Dad wasn’t as emotional as me, had some empathy, but not to the amount I have. He also thought more logically than me. I wish I was more like my Dad, less emotional, more in control of his thoughts and feelings. …I thought I had emotional problems, growing up in that household. I didn’t realize it was the environment, they dynamic of dealing with a narcissist mother and a psychopath brother. It was normal to me. I was so wrong and thanks to HG, I can take off their masks and see them now and understand what I grew up with. Xx
Hi Rebecca,
Ugh! Sorry about that. I should know better. I know you’re not at liberty to speak about your consults with Mr. Tudor.
It’s just the word attachment didn’t sit well with me. Possessiveness seems more appropriate. But I guess its because I’m thinking about attachment is based on love. I was thinking that he kept you around because you were useful to him. Not necessarily because he was attached to you. Do they attach to their possessions? I mean I love my shoes but if one breaks, I’ll just go and get a new pair. I definitely think you were of value to him though.
Hi Rebecca,
I remember thinking I didn’t fit in either. I often wondered if my parents were my real parents and wished that they weren’t.
I missed an earlier comment of yours regarding the last time your mother hit you. Its awesome when we’re able to draw that line and say no more. Was your Dad passed at that point?
Hi Leigh,
No worries, I know you didn’t mean anything by it, you were curious and I understand that. Xx
Thank you for saying I was useful to my brother. I know what you mean by that. He did want to be around, I thought then it was because he loved me. I know now he didn’t but, he had use for me, so he wanted me around….and that is at least something.
He was a long distance semi driver and he wanted me to go on the road with him. He said, he got lonely and wanted my company. I couldn’t go with him because I had a job with home responsibilities. I had to explain that to him. He looked disappointed and looking back now, I should have taken a vacation and spent some more time with him. For the most part, I enjoyed his company, he was funny, always had stories to tell, most of the time I couldn’t watch a movie for him talking over it….he had some charm about him, though he would make me uncomfortable when he would talk to strangers, we would meet together, and talk to them like they were old friends. I thought that was awkward to do and so did they. He didn’t seem to get how uncomfortable they were with him talking to them so openly. He would miss social ques like that. I didn’t understand then, what I know now. He had holes in his personality. It wasn’t his fault that he didn’t get it. From what I gathered, he was partially born this way and partially made this way from abuse.
Dear HG,
Am I right in my thought of his psychopathy and how it came to be born like that and partially created from abuse? Xx
Hi Rebecca,
How much younger are you then your brother? Do you remember him as a young child? I wonder what he was like then. What did you sense and feel from him then?
I also did a little research on primary vs secondary psychopathy. Lack of anxiety is associated with primary psychopathy. Did your brother experience anxiety?
Mr. Tudor puts value on people to and within this terminology he would be considered to have primary psychopathy. I’ve heard Mr. Tudor say that he valued Doug’s contributions. I think he even said it on the blog.
Anyway, I believe that your brother definitely saw value in you and it was important for him to keep you around.
Hi Rebecca,
I forgot to say that I take a much more pragmatic approach to things. Its just how my brain works. I hope I’m not coming off too cold though.
Hi Leigh,
No, my Dad passed when I was in my 30s, the incident with my mother I was 19, or 20 years old. Xx
Hi Leigh,
My brother was a few years older than me. My mother had me at 29 years old, so my parents were almost 30 years older than me. They both died at 63 yrs old. My brother was 42 yrs old.
I remember my brother being too much for my MRVNarc mother to handle. He usually drove her nuts with being rebellious and dismissing her and her rules. He enjoyed tormenting her and often. He somehow still was her golden child and the one she would defend when he got into trouble. He liked setting fires and throwing stink bombs in mailboxes, to get back at people who made him mad. He was like as far back as I can remember, like when I was 6.
He got kicked out of middle school and my parents got him into a Catholic School that had smaller classes and the teachers were better able to deal with his behaviors in class. He ended up going back to regular school in the 11th grade, he skipped a whole 2 grades because he scored high in a placement test. He had dyslexia and had trouble with his handwriting, but otherwise he did well in school, when he wanted to put in the effort. He got bored with school.
He did experience some anxiety, at least it seemed like anxiety, though he got over it quickly. He wouldn’t panic, it was more like an annoyance and frustation than a full blown anxiety. Xx
Sorry Leigh, I forgot the other questions you had. What did I sense and feel from my brother? As a kid? He got a high from tormenting my mother. It made him feel better than her. It was his payback to her for getting him beat by our Dad. My brother suffered more beatings from my Dad because my brother refused to get in line, to behave, to stop repeating the same mistakes that kept getting him beaten. I didn’t understand why he did that. He kept doing it and kept getting beat. He would yell and scream and then turn around and do the behavior again the next day. I asked him a few times, why don’t you learn and stop it?
He told me, because he wanted to do it and didn’t care about the beatings he got. I couldn’t make sense of it. He didn’t make sense to me.
I remember one time that stixks out in my mind the most, when we were kids. He was getting a beating, in his room, and I was hiding in my closet, in my room. I was crying for him because all I heard was him screaming and the belt hitting him. He went through that again and again. I felt powerless to help him, or to stop it. I felt so much pain for him and so much guilt for not being able to help him. I hated it when he got punished. I hurt for him. He didn’t deserve that and I can’t see him as evil. He was a child too. Xx
Yes, I remember what HG said in his memorial video of his friend who was involved in Scientology. His name escapes me…..Daniel…Dave…my mind is a blank on his name….damnit! Yeah, I remember HG mentioning the dynamic between the two of them and how useful he was to HG. He was a decent guy and I am annoyed with myself for losing his name in my head….
I was useful for my brother and Daniel…Dave ….was useful to HG. My brother was a lot nicer to me than he was to our parents, though he did enjoy tormenting me too, at times. Xx
Hi Rebecca,
I wanted to clarify something. I’m not loving the word useful used in the context of how your brother saw you or how Mr. Tudor saw Doug. I prefer the word value. Your brother saw value in you. As Mr. Tudor saw value in Doug. Useful just sounds to cold to me. I prefer thinking that you, Doug and other empath dealing with a psychopath, has value. That’s probably my ET though.
Hi HG and Leigh,
Doug…..omg! I feel like an idiot! I am sorry HG for losing his name in my head, O knew it started with a D! 🫣🙄 I don’t blame you if you put me on the naughty step for this one! Xx
Its ok Rebecca. Sometimes I have trouble recalling names too. Sometimes even words. It drives me nuts! Yes, it was Doug I was talking about.
Thank you for sharing about your brother. I hope its not too hard to talk about. Sometimes my truthseeker trait gets the best of me
Hi Leigh,
Yes, going by the behaviors HG shares with us, about himself, I would say HG is a Primary Psychopath. Xx
Hi Leigh,
No worries, thank you! Xx I have the same issue with my truth seeker trait, it gets triggered and there I go digging for info! Xx
Hi Leigh,
I can see why “use” can be seen as colder than “value” , but to me it is one in the same, two sides of the same coin. My brother found value in me because I was useful to him. It is the logical truth and I try to hold onto that. Xx
I love the way you describe that! .You were valuable because you were useful. It is the logical truth. Thank you for that.
Hi Leigh,
Thank you, but I have HG to think for that logical statement of truth. Xx In the mindset of the narcissist and the psychopath, if we are useful to them, we are valuable to them. I take comfort in that truth. I am useful, I am valued….to me that is the only type of “love” I received from my mother and brother, and now my husband. It is what I grew to accept as their love. It was enough for me because there was no getting more from them. It kept me a float, it was enough to survive on. I thought this was normal, until HG showed me the truth of it all. I realize now I missed out on a healthy mother/daughter relationship, a health relationship with my brother, and to an extent my Normal Dad, his relationship with me was damaged from the dynamics with my mother and brother. I van’t go back and change it and the environment I grew up in made me who I am, like it made them who they were….can’t change it, but I can learn from it. Xx Thank you again HG, for the knowledge you share with us, the understanding that brings some peace from the wounds of the past. I deep thanks from me, HG! Xx
Hey Rebecca and Leigh:
I came from a family with empathy and not abuse BUT I did have an abusive grandfather on my mother’s side. He was Highland Scottish mostly by ancestry and a New England American. He was educated and middle class. He and my grandmother met at 14, married at 18 and remained married til death in their 80s. He was abusive. For example…. We would be sitting at a family dinner and my grandmother who was a darling storyteller that everyone adored would be telling her stories and he would scream over and over SHUT UP. Until she did. As a child, I recall looking at him and thinking he is like a gorilla in a zoo. I was not afraid of him ( don’t know why) but angry at his treatment of her and I felt he was ape like. I always made a point later when he was not around to hug my grandma and tell her that I loved her and how great her stories were. Age 4? 5? And I realized this is how I react to abusers in general. In school. At the DA office, with my ex husband, at a dog park. I go calm, I go still. I become fascinated in a weird way ( unless there were to be violence, then 911). The abuser to me is like an animal in a zoo. Foreign to me. An alien. My ex husband LMN would get more upset at my non- reaction. “ Oh you are perfect? Huh? Sitting there with nothing to say after you did x, y, and z. “ It outraged him, the way I reacted or rather went calm and still gazing at him as he looked like an agitated monkey to me. I would sit there and not really listen, noticing his contorted mouth, his red face, his squished in eyebrows with arms going up and down and think- he looks ridiculous. Of course silently, I am not stupid. Later, I would think about it and decide what to do as it was often random. But the random weird anger was even more alien like. It was exactly my response as a child. And it’s the same watching documentaries like the recent Charles Manson where they show the abuse like screaming, dictating, punishing. They are like aliens. And even that one time this Hispanic male came to my door saying he needed help and I opened it ( never again). He tried to sexually grab me. First I called for my son then I slammed and locked the door. My son was down in a jiffy and the man ran away. But once the door was shut, I felt oddly calm and curious. Was he on drugs? He seemed possessed…was it demons, his eyes rolled back??? He looked like a cartoon. Of course I was safe when I thought back to his arms extended, hands grope like, head tilted, eyes flickering and rolling like a possession. Maybe he was… ??? Etc…. It was interesting in a strange way to observe. Although I never wanted it to happen again. Of course. And I have protection. There are more examples like this in my life. I wonder what reaction that is: as it’s not quite flight, fight or freeze, …. and I wonder if many share this interest in narcs or psychopaths because they are like a sub-species.??? Their behavior is immoral and not commendable if not downright criminal but they do fascinate. I wonder if we could ever step inside the mind and truly understand. ??? We can educate ourselves, but unlike most people where you can step inside their shoes and know what they are feeling….. Not sure that level of understanding is possible with these types no matter how much education. And even with an education to pinpoint them or behaviors, they are like alien creatures. Perhaps I am justifying my fascination with true crime and HG’s topic of narcissism and psychopathy but… . I find it fascinating. I do watch and read lots of other stuff too….
But I wonder did you or others ever react by looking at that abusive person and thinking “ “ what is that?” “ who is that?” “Wtf is that? ” Like a child looking at an ape beating its chest and roaring in its pen at a zoo?
It’s abhorrent. Not saying it does not need to stop and victims protected but it is also so foreign and alien like.
And I wonder, Isla said the same… why am I interested in true crime? This topic?
I don’t know but it makes me curious.
Hi Contagiois and Leigh,
Yes, I know what you mean about looking at the abuser and wondering WTF is this behavior? Who is this person? Are they for real? I have experienced this with my brother, I commented to Leigh earlier about my brother’s behavior at the funeral home when we were making funersl arrangements. He skipped out on helping with the decision making and came back later, after all the decisions were made. He walked in all carefree and shit, and then had the audicity to be mad that he didn’t have a say about her gravestone etc…I was both mad and shocked! Who was this person and what an asshole?! Xx
I have had other times where he confused me and I wondered about his behaviors….I experience that a lot with various narcs in my life too, not just the sociopaths and psychopaths….they all make me want to understand why they act like that, what are they thinking, what is behind their behaviors??? I watched documentaries to try to understand their view of the world and why they do things…I need to understand them, it is a drive I have to get the answers. My truth seeker trait is very strong and a lot of times I find myself watching them, quietly and observing them. I catch myself and wonder what is wrong with me? They are so different than me and I want to understand them so badly. I feel like I am so weird sometimes. Xx
Hi Rebecca & Contagious,
I’m fascinated by behaviors in general. Even empath behaviors fascinate me.
When I really want to understand something, I tend to dig deep. So if a behavior or action confuses me, I may even ask about it.
I can remain calm too. Especially if I need to take care of something. I see no reason to panic. It just makes things worse. I am a worrier though. Just not to the point of panic.
When I see someone displaying ape like behaviors, I usually just ignore them outright. Its the subtle behaviors that are more fascinating to me.
Hi Rebecca,
The problem with reading about psychopathy is the terminology. Factor 1 psychopathy, Factor 2, ASPD, sociopathy, it’s all a bit of a mess.
If you have heard factor 2 psychopathy as a diagnosis for your brother, then that sits closer to sociopathy than psychopathy. The issue is that because each diagnosis is based on traits and behaviours, you could have a factor 2 psychopath with primarily factor 2 traits and behaviours, and maybe a couple of factor one traits and behaviours in the mix as well. The diagnosis isn’t like a fixed product in a box that looks exactly the same each time. Similar to empaths really, similarities and differences due to trait strength, environment, upbringing and so on.
If you are looking at factor 2 psychopathy then overall, this is closer to sociopathy than psychopathy. The differences and commonalities are explained here.
https://youtu.be/bmnnJfCyQb8?is=1MeDNDUEFOv7-692
As I understand it, neither the psychopath nor sociopath has emotional empathy. So, in your example where your brother said,” Why don’t you try beating on someone your own size?” This was not protection of you simply because he wanted to protect you. It was a power play. Your brother likely saw an opportunity to challenge your father and elevate his position in the family hierarchy (power accumulation.) He punches the wall, (hot emotionality, threat) and stares your father down (provocation.) Father backs down so signals he is under control. You feel grateful and protected so you are also under control. Your brother’s status in the household increases but this wasn’t as a result of cold calculation, it was more a reaction to circumstances.
Every action is self serving, no matter how it looks. On this occasion you happened to gain from what happened but this is different to you being the motivation for what happened.
If you look at it differently though, you escaped a beating that night. You escaped because your brother was there. That’s still a positive thing. Motivation isn’t always the be all and end all in my view. Outcomes are important too.
Thank you TS for your insight! Xx
Yes, Secondary is the more emotional between Primary and Secondary and I do agree with your thinking of secondary being close to sociopathy. I don’t recall my brother ever crying or even being depressed, even when our Dad died, he got angry, not heartbroken. I realize now why he was so angry, his cash cow died, his free ride died…and then he looked at me…I remember when we watched the sun come up together, in his car, after watching my Dad’s body leave with the funeral hearse…my brother said to me, “It is just you and me now, together.” And then he took my hand, and looked me in the eyes.
He moved in with me, after he lost Dad’s house, due to not having a job and not being able to pay the mortgage. I couldn’t afford to pay the mortgage for him and keep up my own house. He moved from mooching off my Dad to mooching off me. He saw me as his next cashcow.
I don’t recall a time where he was violent towards me, except the time he tried to rape me…it is odd how my mind almost dismisses that as really being violent, but attempted rape is violent,so he did show some violent tendencies too. Xx
Hi Rebecca,
Glad the info helped. That video is really useful.
They are so confusing. If someone had said that to me, at that point and in that location, under those circumstances, I would have been moved by it, and agreed and felt some comfort from it. The thing is though, all those emotions are ours coming from a place where if we said the same, we would genuinely mean it, it would be genuine care, togetherness and reliance. We just always assumed everyone was the same way. That’s an error and not a fault.
There will still be memories though that will likely carry genuine meaning for you. Your two motivations might have been entirely different, but like the example you gave with your brother preventing a beating, the outcome might still have been positive for both of you. Some careless thing he said that made you laugh or worry less maybe. You still worried less as an outcome, does it always always matter what the motivation was? That’s down to the individual to work out for themselves I think.
As long as you understand it, you clearly see his motivations now looking back, then whatever you do feel is kind of an informed choice, “ yes I know his motivation there was control, but I really laughed that night.” Something like that. That way I think you get to keep something real and not imagined. A happy medium of sorts. That might make all the difference. If he was still around I might not say that, but he isn’t, so if you choose to keep some positives, and it helps you to do that, I think that’s probably ok. You get to be your own priority here 🙂
Thank you again TS for your comments. I believe sometimes someone else’s view, of a situation, helps me see it anew. Xx
I was moved by what my brother said to me, after we saw the hearse drive away with my Dad’s body inside. It was very moving to me because I deeply loved my brother, and his words made me cry. I hugged him because his words both gave me comfort and made me afraid of losing him too. We were the last of our immediate family, the rest of our family were many miles away and it was a overwhelming time for me and I believed for him too. I loved him, I still love him. He was my brother and to me, he wasn’t “evil” , he had issues, like how I think everyone has issues. He is still human,still my brother, though now I can see why he behaved the way he did….it still doesn’t take away the fact that he was good to me too. It wasn’t all dark, all the time, most of the time he was good to me. I still miss him and he did make me laugh a lot and I usually had great adventures with him. I miss that. I miss his laugh. I miss his ability to calm me down, when I was scared and felt lost. We survived our childhood together, when we move as Navy kids, we were always there for each other, adjusting to the new neighborhood again, together. His words that day still play in my mind because to me, they were so true. Xx
Hi Rebecca,
What you say here fits. He would mooch because he didn’t have the emotional empathy to consider that wasn’t fair to put additional financial pressure on you. I don’t think it has to be malicious planning “ I know, I’ll bleed her dry” but more, he found himself homeless and you have a home, so he moved there! You fulfilled a need in that context.
You cared for him, he saw value in you. It’s different. Sometimes the needs would align, him being your partner in crime and chief adventurer when you moved, you being the admiring / tolerant sister, and later, a provider.
When the needs don’t align then it’s always us that come off worse whilst they simply move on. I don’t see every psychopath as inherently evil. Some are, some really are, but others I see just as humans without emotional empathy.
I remember a female psychopath talking about her marriage. Her husband had been questioned and she was questioned about their relationship also. When asked how he felt about her, he answered as a neurotypical would, said he loved her, she had her act together, he listed out her attributes, honesty, non judgemental and so on. When asked how he would feel if she died or she left, it was words to the effect of heartbroken. I think he saw her as unique, irreplaceable.
When the psychopath was asked the same questions she answered how a psychopath would. “I find him extremely knowledgeable. He reads a lot and always has something interesting to talk about. He fascinates me, I have never met anyone who understands people as he does. He helps me to make smart decisions for myself (she was referring to health) that I don’t like making.” When asked how she would feel if he died or he left she said, “nothing at all.”
His responses were those of a neurotypical, they contained emotion without that emotion being excessive. Her responses were all about utility.
The impression I got was that she remains in the relationship because she would rather have him in her life than out of it. She’s willing to make small alterations to ensure that remains the case. She views him in terms of contribution and utility because that’s how she sees the world and the people in it. He knows her limitations, accepts her functioning is different and both have to make concessions in order for the relationship to work. For example, she partially masks when at home because whilst he sees her minus mask, he prefers at least a partial mask. Her attitude was along the lines of “I’m masking for you here, don’t push the emotional stuff.” He turns a blind eye to the fact she regularly gets takeaway for herself and often forgets to ask him if he wants one.
“Everyone has issues.” I agree in part. Not everyone has the potential or capacity to cause such harm. Your point though, reminded me of what I’d read about the psychopath / neurotypical couple.
I think perhaps if you can accept the different wiring your brother had, and place your memories in accurate context of that, it’s possible to see both his damaging aspect but also his strengths such as the partner in crime adventurer, imaginative creator and so on. It’s a difficult balance to get right I think, possibly a little easier when looking back with wiser eyes, than when you are in the thick of it. At least with HG you know you are getting the truth, so however you choose to remember your brother, that is based on how he actually was as opposed to how you thought he was. I think that’s very important information to have. Xx
Hi TS,
I see my brother in grey scale, meaning I see the good and the bad in him, he was complex. He could do things to drive me nuts sometimes, like poking me until I would snap on him and then he would laugh at my reaction to him tormenting me. He got off on seeing me snap. It was a fun game to him, but outside the attempted rape, he didn’t really hurt me physically. It was more like he was playing with me, than causing real harm. I don’t believe he wanted to really harm me. I was useful to him and he knew I loved him, and he could manipulate me because I loved him.
I don’t see him as evil for that, it was how his mind worked. I don’t think he saw himself as evil either.
I remember a letter he wrote our mother once, when he was in bootcamp in the Army. He was writing about a girl he met down there and that the relationship ended. She was a stripper and he sounded upset by the girl leaving him. I kept the letter and put it in the memorial box I keep all of his belongings, like his phone, his wallet and little books of photos of his life, his metals etc. I kept his flag from his funeral….I kept what he had with him, when he died and things from his funeral. The letter sticks out for me because it seemed so heart felt and sincere. I think I will share it with HG and get his analysis of it’s context. Xx
Thank you TS for your insight and I appreciate your views on my brother becasue it helps me see him from your view. Xx
Dear HG,
May I share the letter with you? Thank you. Xx
You have indeed shared it with me.
Thank you HG for the analysis on the letter. Xx It seemed so heartfelt, but I see how it was manipulations too. It is so hard for me to not let it touch my heart. He seemed to be really struggling there in Kentucky. Thanks again for your help, HG! I do appreciate your help! Xx
Hi Rebecca,
You’re welcome. I think what you have done in terms of compiling your brother’s belongings is very respectful. I see your efforts to understand him as being respectful too. That’s a function of who you are, irrespective of your brother and his functioning.
I’m glad you forwarded the letter to HG. The danger is always that we project our positive emotions and reasoning onto them when our wiring is really entirely different. Now, you get to keep the letter and also understand why he wrote it. I don’t think that by understanding more you will suddenly switch to a wholly negative view of your brother. As you work through your recollections with HG, I think perhaps the position you might arrive at is one where there is less emotional attachment and more a kind of informed acceptance. A more precise shade of grayscale! Xx
Hi TS,
I deeply appreciate your comments here. I deeply appreciated HG’s analysis of the letters I sent him. The one to my parents seemed so heartfelt and he seemed so lost. It still gets to me, even though I can see what HG pointed out. The heartfelt fakery is what my narc mother fell for too. He manipulated the manipulator…the irony in that! It is almost amusing. Xx
She fell for her own game, and I fell for it too….to a certain extent, though I would push back with him, like I did our mother.
I also sent HG some facebook messages between my brother and I. His acct has become a memorial acct, that is how I can still access his messages.
My narc husband saw me going through my brother’s memorial box, looking for his letters, and my narc husband asked me, “Why do you keep that stuff?”
I looked at him, understanding his lack of empathy and love for someone else, and replied, ” Because I still love him and want to be able to touch his belongings whenever I want to, to remember him and feel cloae to him.”
He shook his head at me and frowned. He said, “He’s in the past, why dig through his things? You do nothing, but cry over it. What good does that do?”
I told him, ” I can’t explain it to you, you don’t have empathy for it.”
He left me alone then. I couldn’t explain it to him, not in a way he would have accepted. Xx
My brother died in 2013 and I still grieve for him, him being a psychopath doesn’t take away that grief. Xx
Hi TS,
I believe I have a trauma bond with my brother. We both went through abuse together and it created a sibling trauma bond, we protected each other. I think he was a secondary psychopath, so his psychopathy was created ffom abuse and an abusive environment. He has capability to form attachements, especially with a sibling, but they were not stable, normal or healthy attachements, they were based on him being first and his empathy was deeply buried in a damaged mind. I have mixed feelings about him having empathy, but I have read that they do have the capacity for empathy, which highly confused me and I reached out to HG about it because I want to know 100% the answer on this subject. Did my brother have a little empathy and love for me?? I really need the answer to that. My brother sometimes, when my Dad was overseas on Navy duties, was my only sanctuary from my mother and I thought he felt the same for me. I get so confused here because my emotions mess up my thinking ability.
I trust HG’s opinion over any “licensed professional’s” opinion…..so I wait for my answer.
Thank you HG for taking the time to read the messages. I hope they show him clearly to you and I can lay to rest my doubts and worries. Was he a secondary psychopath, I know he was a psuchopath and does it change how he felt about me? Xx
Hi Rebecca,
Your narc husband is never going to get it. Your emotional empathy for your brother is a function of who you are. I don’t believe we need to change that. I believe we have to place it in its correct context so that our empathy is directed comfortably and appropriately.
Maybe your grief is linked to your confusion about your brother? Grief doesn’t have a time limit but that’s a long time to still feel so sad. Truthseekers don’t do well with unanswered questions. Hopefully, as those recollections are placed in context of your brother’s psychopathy and your questions are answered, the grief will lessen and fit into its correct place in your life as you move forward. Not to forget but perhaps to remember with less sadness.
We don’t compartmentalise unfortunately, our stuff overlaps and entwines. Reconciling your relationship with your brother will hopefully impact the sense of loss you feel. I think it might.
I’m happy my thoughts on it helped. Xx
Hello TS:
Thanks for explaining but I really just see it as both the same with different actions. ? It’s not in the DSM. Be good to hear HG take on it but hey you may be right and if so, I am very appreciative as no expert.
One thing however… Rebecca, psychopaths may not have empathy but they do have possessions they call their own. Their wife, their children…. Their sister.
My ex husband ASPD used to say in his Brooklyn accent, you don’t mess with my money, my children , my wife. I am certain he meant it. I am certain his loaded weapon was nearby.
I think your brother considered you his own and no one … not your father… was going to hurt you.
My instinct is you know that somewhere.
My two cents.
Hi TS,
You understand me so well. Part of my grief is because I have unresolved guilt and unanswered questions regarding my relationship with my brother. I am looking to HG for the answers because I believe HG has the answers for me. HG would know more than most, how my brother thought and felt. I want to get inside my brother’s point of view and I can’t do that, and HG can tell me the answers I need. I do have a strong Truthseeker trait and a strong drive for the answers. I anxioisly wait for HG’s response to my brother’s fb messages. His handwriting was terrible. He had dyslexia and ADHD. I read earlier about a link with ADHD and Sociopathy. It makes sense because my brother had both. Xx
Hi Rebecca,
I’m not very good with trauma bonding. I don’t think it’s something I’ve experienced, but I suppose the word bonding has a lot to do with it. In your situation I think the question is “ Did you and your brother bond as a result of the joint trauma you experienced in childhood? My guess would be that you bonded to your brother as you can form emotional bonds, but your brother didn’t bond to you as to my understanding, a psychopath cannot bond to anyone in any meaningful sense. They don’t have the brain structure and chemistry for it. In terms of a sociopath, not as sure. I’m tempted to say the same but physically and chemically I’m less certain.
“ Did my brother have a little bit of love and empathy for me?” I think this is your king pin. It’s the question you want to know the answer to above all else. I think you’re right in your estimation that HG is best placed to answer that for you. Again for me, psychopaths don’t have the brain structure for love or emotional empathy but I’m less certain about sociopaths, specifically, the sociopath that was your brother.
The thing is, in my view, relationships are not entirely based on emotional empathy anyway. I see them more in terms of two stages. Stage one is far more cognitive, but over time as the relationship develops, understanding grows, a bond starts to form, and it’s at this point you reach stage 2, where emotional empathy is the driving force. I think we still sometimes use cognitive empathy though even in stage 2. We have both cognitive and emotional empathy, and safeguarding empathy, in fact, if it’s to do with empathy you name it, we have it! Many neurotypicals don’t, or it’s far less pronounced. Narcissistic people have capacity but in my experience, most of the time and with most people they are using cognitive empathy. Cognitive empathy doesn’t have to mean narcissist, manipulation, negative. I see it just as stage one before full blown emotional empathy kicks in a touch later. Narcissistic people stay in stage one with most people, though not all.
So imagine you meet a new man. You’ve been out on a couple of dates. You describe him to your best friend. “ He’s lovely. I think he’s really good looking. We had loads to talk about and he had me laughing all night. He did… He said… I liked what he was wearing, he was polite and he made a real effort which is sweet, and so on and so on. You did have a great time on the date, but, your observations are mostly cognitive. Assuming he isn’t a narc, you haven’t yet fallen for the guy, but you like him, you got on well and are excited to see him again. The warmth you feel, only mild, that’s emotional empathy, but the rest is cognitive. Are you lying to your friend when you describe the date? Unlikely. So these could be said to be genuine thoughts representative of a stage one involvement.
Psychopaths need control. You aren’t interested in that. Accumulation, you likely aren’t obsessively interested in that, you weren’t there only for the fancy restaurant or having your cab paid, you probably split the bill. However, when we look at stimulation, things get a lot closer. He’s good looking, ( appreciation of beauty, stimulation) we had lots to talk about ( intelligent, stimulation) he had me laughing all night (appreciation of humour, intelligence, stimulation) I liked what he was wearing (observer) he made a real effort which is sweet (this is closer to emotional empathy in my view). Do you see what I’m getting at? These are value based statements. Your brother might have said similar things, meant it, but he was using stage one cognitive empathy and never made it to stage two with genuine emotional empathy.
Sometimes we aren’t so far apart from them. Other times, they might as well be a different species. We might genuinely make similar observations and both mean them. It’s just that we progress further on in our relationships I think, they stick with stage one. Our cognitive empathy rapidly expands outwards into a deep emotional empathy. This might be what is meant by a ‘capacity to form attachments.’ Stage one is kind of representative of that, but, depending on opportunity, objective, impulsivity, boredom etc, that cognitive attachment could very easily be set to one side without a second thought.
Sometimes psychopaths do mean what they say, but I think we have to understand the limitations of what they have the capacity to mean when they say it. We have to be careful not to hear what we would mean if we said the same. This is why I think understanding your brother will just sharpen your grayscale into something that’s more balanced and less haunting. Being of value to someone can arguably be a genuine cognitive attachment, possibly with more of a sense of recognition than a warmth. I don’t think them valuing us always has to be manipulative, dark and twisty, it can simply be exactly what it is, being valued by someone for something. I think in many ways it’s the narcs that twist the concept more than the psychopath. The narcs manipulate in every single interaction, psychopaths don’t have to.
Hi TS,
Thank you for your thoughts, I like reading your point of view about my brother and psychopathy. Xx
You are right I have questions about my brother that I need answered and I believe HG can answer them. I am trying to give all the info I can about my brother to HG, his letters and messages, and I already did the NDC on him. He came back Psychopath, but my question is which type? Primary=Psychopath, or Sociopath=Secondary?
My brother, in my opinion and from what I recall about his behaviors, was a sociopath. According to articles I have read about sociopaths, they are capable of having a trauma bond with a sibling, especially if they both went through the same abusive environment, which we did. My other question is, is that true? Did he form an unstable, unhealthy, trauma bond with me? He was protective of me, and I of him, was that the trauma bond? I don’t know. I read articles that said, yes sociopaths are capable of forming “unhealthy, possessive” bonds to siblings. I want to know the answers, I want to understand the answers.
HG has the answers and I trust he will tell me the truth because HG hasn’t lied to me before and he doesn’t have a reason to lie to me about my brother. I trust HG’s analysis over any licensed doctor’s opinion.
My brother had physical disabilities and he had dyslexia and ADHD. My brother had hip dyspleisia and had to wear leg braces as a kid. His knees turned in and had to be corrected. He couldn’t skip. He struggled with handwriting, spelling errors, sentence structures, but he had an easier time typing, texting and communicating with speech. He had more going on then sociopathy and I saw him struggle to fit in. There were a lot of people who liked my brother, he was likable, but sometimes he would miss social cues and piss strangers off because he didn’t get that they didn’t want to talk to him. He would get threatened in front of me sometimes and I’d threaten them for threatening him. There were a few times I’d let my anger win , with other kids, but it was mostly verbal fights. My brother would calm me down, and there were times he would protect me too. I thought we had each other’s back. I hope he had some kind of love for me. I don’t know. It hurts to think I meant nothing to him. I don’t know. Xx
TS,
I forgot to add, that I think a psychopath/sociopath are more upfront and honest, less fake than a narcissist. They have less than a need to manipulate, so you get more of the truth from them. I agree with you on that, 100% That is not saying that they don’t manipulate at all, because they can and do. Xx
I want to deeply understand my brother, even though he is gone. I want to fully see him because, before I was too broken myself to understand what he went through…Now that I am healing, I want to see him, fully. I am mentally healed enough to accept the truth of him. I love him, that won’t ever go away. I want to understand him. Xx
Hi Contagious
Certainly no expert here either! I just take the information in the videos and try to work outwards from there. There’s more information available for psychopathy than sociopathy too, so where I might take a leap with psychopathy, I wouldn’t do that to the same extent with sociopathy.
Hi Rebecca,
Absolutely, I would have total confidence in HG telling you the absolute truth about your brother and interpreting those messages correctly. I’m sure he’ll tell you the truth and in my experience, he does it in a way that also makes sense within the functioning of the empath. It’s clear, not cruel.
I was thinking about value in relationships a bit more. The work sponsor I mentioned, I see it as blindingly obvious what my value was to him. He was protective over me too, in an excessive way in one instance but looking more closely, protectiveness was everywhere, I just didn’t really register it at the time. Or, I saw it, but didn’t appreciate the significance. He was definitely protecting an asset. I had a skill that he could utilise, therefore I was of value and that warranted being safeguarded.
At the time I would have described him as a friend, but really, it’s just a lazy thought process there. Did I really see him as a friend? Did I feel warmth from him? Did I feel true warmth towards him, I don’t think so, not when I really think about it. I did trust him, or, I trusted him as much as I ever trust which is never completely. I trusted him to look after my interests, and he certainly did that. I didn’t trust him with my emotions. I never thought not to trust him with my emotions, but looking back, I didn’t. Our relationship was never really based on that.
Overall, my work life was made better through having him in it. That’s the truth of it. Maybe there are parts of your childhood where for both of you, your lives were made better through having the other in them. Maybe those are the memories you refer to most going forward but in context of the limitations and less positive aspects of his psychopathy. Because, if you want to remember him clearly, and I think you do, it’s necessary to recognise the positive but also understand the darker aspects. You might actually end up being the first person to ever fully understand him. I think that would be a very appropriate memorial and one he would likely appreciate.
You’ll get there Rebecca. Xx
Thank you TS,
I have complete confidence in HG too! Xx I believe he can help me solve the puzzle, confusion and all the mixed emotions I have centered around my relationship with my brother. Xx They are so entangling to us, the dynamic between us and psychopaths, narcissists, sociopaths and even normals and other empaths can be troubling, confusing and upsetting to deal with, even years after they are gone. Xx
Hi Rebecca,
I missed this whole thread. I’m glad you decided to seek Mr. Tudor’s guidance. I think he’s the best one to clear up any questions you have about your brother.
Hello my friends:
What’s a primary and secondary psychopath? It’s not in the DSM. But my top psychologist for my child custody dispute who did a 2 year evaluation and found my first ex husband ASPD said that ASPD had a “ spectrum. “Not all are blood thirsty. And criminals can be good fathers.
Now Dr. Robert Hare developed the test for psychopathy spending his life’s work in US prisons. I think he said prisons were 1/3 filled with psychopaths. A high percent for their kind. Ted Bundy scored 95% on Robert Hares test. Ted was a narcissistic psychopath and bloodthirsty.
I actually took the test as my husband had to and I thought it was a joke. I found the questions ludicrous. I don’t know how the MMORI or Hare test actually works. So many questions are a joke. I. E. Do you hear things? Do you get commands from them,? What if you did and lied? I recall however getting stuck on the question of do you see things? I thought of my dreams. The security guard said: just answer the question truthfully.
Anyway I am not a psychological test developer but who knows.
HG seemed to label the spectrum on intellect. Smart versus stupid. Am I right?
Here’s what I know from HG:
Psychopaths need control, stimulation and accumulation.
Some are intelligent, others not. They have lower fear and pain levels.
TOP TEN
Here’s what I know from marrying one:
1. They can be good husbands and fathers;
2. Savvy strategic businessmen even if illegal;
3. They trust no one or very few;
4. They are healthy paranoid especially if their business is illegal- they are private, guarded and armed;
5. Nothing startles them.
6. They tend to be monotone in tone and stable in behavior
7. They do not believe laws, norms apply to them only to other dimwits
8. They are concerned about law enforcement, always on their mind
9. They would rather lose 100,000 then someone getting an upper hand on 1$, it’s a game and they must win at all costs;
10. If you are aligned with their goals, you will be treated well. If you are in front of their goals they will destroy you and kill you without hesitation or remorse.
I’m n general as a mate, they are solid. They don’t go up and down, they don’t abuse. But if you want to leave without permission or expose them. Gloves off. They are Generals, strategic players in the game they call leaders fe. They don’t feel highs like joy ( or love), but they don’t feel lows either. A bomb could explode. They would sit reading a paper. A baby is born, it’s as exciting to them as reading a paper. Sex is a release. But if their goal is money, a high. If they like to gamble and win, a high.
I once watched Gacy being interviewed, they said what did it feel like when you killed. It wasn’t joy, happiness or accomplishment, he said he felt lighter, a pressure released.
It’s a different brain they are born with. Plenty of studies. There is no high and there is no low almost like reptiles, sharks in the animal kingdom. BUT the man who coined serial killer said that 100% of these psychopaths have been abused. It seems take a particular brain and put it in severe violence, you might just get a serial killer.
What’s interesting to me is Ted Bundy. He is by all accounts a psychopath but the evidence of an abusive environment is not solid. Yes, his mother tried to abort him allegedly with drugs. No proof. One famous psychologist suggested the grandfather was the father. DNA showed otherwise. Yes his bio mom put him in an orphanage for 3 years but the family picked him up and he was raised by a stepdad and with siblings. No evidence of abuse. I have heard his mother testify at his death sentence hearing, interviews from his brother and a cousin he lived with. No signs of an abuser. Ted Bundy blamed it on his obsession with pork. I heard him say that anyone if your sons could be me. Ted died before proper research could be done. Dr. Hare treated him and diagnosed him a psychopath. Anyone watching him represent himself could see it. I think think what makes Ted unique is he was born that way. If anything a normal life with normal people made him skilled at blending in and achieving his kills and sadism. I have think he was unique.
Thoughts on any of this?
X
Hi Contagious,
Primary and Secondary Psychopathy are variants of psychopathy, the spectrum you mentioned in your comment. I believe my brother was a secondary psychopath and in my previous comment, I describe the difference between the two spectrums. I hope HG goes into the different spectrums of psychopathy and I wonder what he will call them, if he does. Xx
“Smart versus stupid.” – I can’t, Contagious! That was hysterical! Intelligence definitely plays a role but reading it the way you wrote it made me laugh my ass off!
Dear HG,
What I meant by you “going into spectrum of psychopathy”, is like how you came up with the different cadres and schools of narcissists and empaths. I wanted to clear that up because I know you have done videos on psychopathy and I follow the psychopathy site you have on yt. Xx
Worse Leigh:
Spellcheck made it pork not porn! Lol
Hi Leigh,
I loved my Dad more than my mother too, because I saw him as a victim too, a victim to my mother’s charms and manipulations. Xx