The Narcissist’s Playbook : It’s a Vak Attack!
168 thoughts on “The Narcissist’s Playbook : It’s a Vak Attack!”
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In Episode 12 of Isla’s podcast, Vaknin, in his usual all-knowing tone, says:
“What the abuser does, and especially the narcissist, he takes away control from the victim. He takes away the victim’s control over the victim’s life.”
Also, Isla says in reference to the way victims appear to make irrational decisions: “Sam explains this better than the victims. He is in complete control.”
Actually, NO, THIS IS NOT TRUE. The narcissist IS NOT in complete control.
The ‘control’ rests inside the target’s mind. It always has and it’s still there.
The only problem is that this ‘control’ inside the target’s mind has been abused.
The control the target has is cognitive dissonance. The cognitive dissonance is completely inside the target’s mind. It is for the target to own and operate.
Cognitive dissonance is a powerful thing. It can help us or it can harm us.
The difference lies in awareness of what is happening – the awareness that choices need to be made. Before a choices is made, it must be clear. It must be defined and made with intention.
If I may, WN, there are two elements to this control.
There is the control that the narcissist “sees” over the victim. This may be direct, indirect or through withdrawal. The latter two are in effect an artifice where there is no actual control over the victim but the narcissist has a sense of subconscious control over the victim and thus achieves the most important aspect of the prime aims. Accordingly, from the narcissist´s perspective the narcissist does have total control.
The other control is the application of the aforementioned direct control whereby this is taking control away from the victim, however, it may only be in an instant (in the moment) to be effective. However, the victim may no longer be on the narcissist´s radar, therefore the issues of control to the narcissist is not applicable and therefore the victim will also not be under the narcissist´s control.
Hi all,
There’s an extra episode of Isla’s podcast that dropped today. It goes into much more detail (through one victim’s story) about the “therapy” that Vaknin engaged in with one of his clients.
Here’s the link:
https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/ep-10-the-storyteller-narcissists-playbook/id1482159580?i=1000786456148
Hi 1WC,
I’m listening to episode 13 now. Grannon’s comment that Vaknin was the only one putting out original content, pissed me off. He obviously hasn’t found Mr. Tutor. Not only is Mr. Tudor’s content original, its also accurate.
Side note: I’m doing laundry while I listen too, lol!
That is Grannon kissing the backside of Vaknin with that comment – he has leeched off Vaknin for years.
“Truthful people tend to use less detail.”
I wonder if there’s some aspect of my empathy that causes me to stress details in an effort to be completely honest. People have commented that I have a high attention to details and to pointing out things others don’t notice. For me, because I like and value details, when I’m explaining or recounting something to someone I try to be as detailed as possible out of respect for the other person. I want them to have all the information. It’s also because I tend to be worried that I’m in trouble all the time and old habits die hard. But, considering your point I can see how in wanting to be honest and thorough I might come off as shifty! Maybe it’s a perversion of the truth seeking trait.
Next time I get arrested and brought in for questioning, I’ll be cool.
Hi Allison,
I think there are lots of reasons why people give additional detail and in some ways whilst I believe overall that the study is true, it’s also possibly misleading.
If we take blog comments as an example, empaths are often wordy. Wordy can often refer to additional or even superfluous detail. It isn’t superfluous to the person writing the comment though. Comments will be long for a reason. It might be as in your example, the expectation of being in trouble / being perceived negatively. That points to a past where words and actions were twisted so that the empath was repeatedly painted as problematic, the ‘bad’ one etc.
If you asked me to explain how something feels, you will likely get a whole string of metaphors. Words don’t cut it, I visualise a lot so Im trying to paint you a picture. I am detailed also because I want people to understand. I find people in general ‘don’t get it’ so the expectation is that people won’t see things as I do. They very rarely feel things as I do. I try to bridge the gap in advance. Sometimes I can’t be bothered. When I’m less wordy, I’ve given up, already left the room.
I like detail from others because I like to understand.
In terms of the study, I think if we looked at it in terms of the detail, the important part would be detail placement. Less to do with explaining, more to do with embellishment, self aggrandisement, deflection and so on. I don’t know if the study tracked where the additional detail occurred, or if it simply recorded overall detail used by liars versus non liars.
I agree. Next time you are brought in, be cool. Short sentences, no over explaining!
Hi TS–
I’ve wondered how I might use text mining to approach communications of narcissists. I’d be curious to see what topic models might uncover. Then compare that to normals and empaths. Further sentiment analysis and emotion detection within unstructured text would be interesting. I think it would be fascinating to approach a large corpus of written communication of each and create visualizations of the emotions detected.
I’d be curious to see if the analysis could pick up whether the differences in cognitive empathy and emotional empathy are evident in written language. I think a narcissist would be a good test of what sentiment analysis is actually doing as in does it measure what it intends to measure, and what the relationship between emotions detected in text might be to a facade for example.
The assumption is that the emotional tone of a text correlates to the emotions of the writer, but does that assumption fail with certain narcissists? Is sentiment analysis sophisticated enough to detect a facade? Would it be more accurate in terms of Lesser narcissists? Where might certain schools and cadres cluster in terms of a positive/neutral/negative breakdown and then into further categories of emotions? I’ll have to check out any prior work in this.
Don’t neglect to put money on my books while I’m confined, TS. I like delicacies.
Hi Allison,
“Truthful people tend to use less detail.” – Its the total opposite for me. I like the minutiae. I want to know every detail so I share every detail as well. When I want to hide something or not be 100% truthful, I actually withhold details. I’ll give you just enough information so it sounds like the truth but I’m actually omitting an important detail. Its done to protect myself. I’ve learned to not trust people and so I keep important details to myself so it can’t be held against me. I wonder how I would score in the study.
Hi Leigh. I guess it’s true we empaths need to protect our soft underbellies. I have to keep in mind that details can be weaponized against me. Even if I limit the details coming across my tongue the sharpest predators can still see me. I feel more confident now that my eyes have been opened here. There are lots of wolves masquerading as sheep out there but I’m catching on. I’ve got to keep to different pastures as I’m so languid and tasty.
Hi Allison, I agree looking at emotion, emotional empathy and cognitive empathy in speech and text would be quite fascinating and likely quite revealing.
I listened to this a couple of years ago. It refers to psychopaths rather than narcissists but the idea is what you are hypothesising here. This was ten years ago, I would imagine that the language models are now vastly superior to how they were then. Interesting listening for a rainy day, though I wish it had included some clear examples.
I’ll bring you hand cream as your first luxury item. There’s no excuse for man hands!
https://youtu.be/6vF5PtdiiCo?is=3l61KWNq6Ltyl9B7
HG
I am not familiar with SV’s wife. Has she been confirmed a non narcissist?
I have not analysed her. I don’t pay either of them much attention, it has only increased recently as a consequence of Isla Traquair’s request of me.
NA
Another question worthy of consideration. What is 🚩 Mark Vicente? 🚩
i considered the same question, when i took a peek at him weeks ago! 😀 I haven’t delved enough yet. I possibly never will 😀
Hi Mari,
I did a cursory delve. I found what he did within and post departure from NXIVM to be particularly interesting, especially if you contrast this with Doug Kramer’s time in and departure from Scientology.
LOCE during childhood with Vicente’s father described as a ‘spy’.
https://youtu.be/FOg0Ewh3dow?is=y2DV-awBXINUeVUa
Vicente shimmied his way all the way up the greasy pole to NXIUM’s inner circle. Cult structure does tend to feature a ‘special’ kind of person in the higher ranks. Raniere even arranged and wrote the vows for Vicente’s second marriage to his current wife. Strangely, information about his first wife seems to be difficult to find.
Mr Vicente is quite the interesting character it seems.
Hello Truthseeker, thank you for sharing the cursory delve. I’ll have another watch of the Espionage vid, I enjoyed it the first time, warrants another listen.
When I first checked MV out, it was a small excerpt of him on a swish podcast. I seem to remember the host looked a bit like him, but can’t find it now. MV said his dad was Portuguese and it seems he was not an easy chap to be around. I may progress my pre-delve, do a recky.
Mari,
Ooh yes, do a recky. I’d be really interested to know what you find. 🙂
I think if we want to understand this whole documentary ‘plot twist’, then we first need to know what category each of the key players falls into.
Dear Truthseeker, it’s me again.
I have delved just a tiny bit more, by way of MV’s website. I’ve read a couple of his ‘Yer Honour’ transcripts of what he said in court re: NXyerMumVBobbins cult members. Have lined up his 57min doc about ‘Insta@Guru’ – aka Benthino Massaro – but I’m not sure I’ll make time for it. That’s about another cult leader-type.
I think your comparison between MV and dear Doug Kramer is worth noting. There is a remarkable difference between them, it seems to me. OK, they are two different personalities, but in Doug I feel the realness, the heart, the humility, the fire to make reparations, learn more from HG, ‘pay it forward’ etc. It seems MV is much slicker and more self centred in his contributions. A fair bit of ‘I, me, me, I’.
I also get more victim energy in his prose, than I got from Doug.
MV joined that cult in 2004 which made him 39 I think.
That’s rather late in life! Interesting…Although, if he’d had some personal issues it’s possible he was susceptible at that age. I don’t yet know how it all transpired.
If his pa was a ‘spy’, I wonder if he’s one as well and he infiltrated! I know, I know, I’m jumping the gun. I guess he’d be more underground if he was. Or maybe not! Either way, I have my eyebrow raised. Well, I would if I could raise one eyebrow.
Hi Me Again,
“ It seems MV is slicker and more self centred in his contributions.”
I agree. Doug, years after leaving Scientology was still self analysing, still shocked and self critical (overly self critical in my view) about how he got sucked in and why he remained. There was still confusion, he wanted to learn from HG, he didn’t portray himself as an expert, he told his story honestly, warts and all. He wasn’t proud of himself for escaping, he was disappointed with himself for being sucked in. He displayed a wide array of genuine emotion but above all he was willing to explore his own part in it. In short he took responsibility for his own actions. He wasn’t using his experience for personal gain. He was still in process of recovery. Doug was a warm, compassionate and genuinely good man.
I don’t see any of this from Vicente. It feels very like he is reciting from a script. He knows the words, but I don’t feel any genuine emotion behind the words.
A lot of information about Vicente is contained within podcasts, and YouTube interviews. I find him incredibly difficult to listen to, he grates on me to such an extent that I can’t face listening to them. I agree, too self centred. I also find him self congratulatory and too self promoting as a supposed expert. I have found some interesting information through articles and searches though, so I’ll summarise that in a separate comment.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts Mari.
Dear TS and HG,
Dirty delving has not taken place (ie, digging into the dirt, not pervy stuff.)
However, I have watched Part 1 of Vicente’s Inst@guru – Bentinho Massaro documentary, and I’m glad I did. I’ll provide the link below, in case anyone – including HG – feels drawn to investigate the man Bentinho’s moves. A classic cult-leader narc, it seems to me. I’m mainly watching it for a partial recky of MV’s personality.
Not only does the documentary give scope to observe Vicente, but it’s also interesting to hear the experiences of various insiders who were involved with Bentinho. Vicente speaks to one person per video, so I’ll continue to watch the subsequent parts. The first guest is a lovely Canadian called Jacqueline Graham.
She and MV have been friends for years, and Mark V comes across well, to me. In this role of listener and ‘host’, he seems genuinely receptive, empathic and interested. I don’t pick up false or dodgy-narc vibes, but of course this does not mean I’m correct overall.
I sense a steely centre in him, along with a keen mind, but he doesn’t appear to lack understanding or warmth. He obviously has a desire to share other people’s experiences, rather than simply his own. As you said, TS, he could well be an interesting character.
One thing he mentions is *how* seekers can fall foul of false gurus despite being highly intelligent and successful – which is what he says happened to him. Searching for answers to the mysteries of life, trying to understand more, grow, evolve, etc., could perhaps partly explain how he became involved with a cult later in life.
Here’s the link to the first part:
Inst@guru Part 1 – Jacqueline (Mark Vicente doc)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HuUinpua54
HG, thanks ever so much for hosting my splurges this week.
Hi Mari,
As promised. This is going to be lengthy I’m afraid but I’ll summarise as best I can.
MV was a high ranking leader, recruiter and filmmaker for NXIVM. He served in Keith Raniere’s inner circle for over a decade. While he was never criminally charged and later became a key whistleblower, his position meant he actively enforced NXVIM’s high control systems; leading many former members and critics to view his past behaviour as psychologically abusive and manipulative.
His Role.
After joining NXIVM in 2005 MV rapidly climbed the ranks to become a Senior Proctor. His primary responsibilities included:
1. Recruitment. He used his filmmaker status to attract wealthy creatives, artists and actors into the group.
2. Media production. He directed promotional videos, filmed Raniere’s lectures and generated propaganda to legitimise the group.
3. He taught the Executive Success Programs and helped run the Society of Protectors (SOP), an all male group meant to instil Raniere’s philosophies on discipline and gender roles.
MV was not accused of physical or sexual abuse and he was excluded from DOS ( the master slave sorority where women were branded, starving themselves etc.) However, as a top leader, he actively practiced and weaponised NXVIM’s psychological framework against lower ranking members.
Former members highlight that he engaged in the following behaviours:
1. Systematic Gaslighting. Vicente taught students that any negative emotions or criticisms they had about NXVIM were actually reflections of their own inner issues or bad intent.
2. SOP Hazing and humiliation. MV oversaw sessions that involved psychological hazing, intense penance (enforced physical positions such as planks or wall sits) and public humiliation to force submission. (Students were forced to wear things like children’s fairy wings or jock straps over their normal clothes during NXVIM events to visually mark their shame.)
SOP members were required to be on constant high alert (hyper vigilance) and were subject to random middle of the night check ins and emergency drills to disrupt normal schedules (sleep deprivation) and foster compliance.
3. Silencing Dissent. For years he defended Raniere and labelled outsiders or defectors who tried to warn people as “suppressive” or “ destructive”.
Members were regularly forced into line ups where they were aggressively questioned, yelled at, or made to confess deeply personal failures in front of the group. If a member showed resistance it was framed as a structural character defect that required harsher discipline.
Coercive Control in NXVIM.
Within NXVIM collateral was the ultimate weapon. The concept of collateral was normalised in the SOP. Members were required to hand over deeply damaging private material as a “pledge of commitment “ before being allowed to advance in rank. Types of collateral included.
1. Graphic and nude photos / videos.
2. Financial and asset control. Lower ranking members were often required to hand over asset deeds, full bank account log in information or substantial sums of money just to join the SOP.
If a member threatened to leave, refused an order from a master, or threatened to go to the press or police, leadership explicitly threatened to release their collateral. It served as a form of blackmail that kept SOP victims trapped in silence, forced labour, and psychological abuse.
What is clear, is that as leader of the SOP, MV was a doer, not the done to. We can debate the fact that MV was a victim and in Raniere’s thrall, but this does not excuse the fact that despite not being prosecuted like other high ranking members (because he was not part of the prosecution focus which was the DOS sorority) MV was also abusive to other (mostly male) NXIVM members.
MV’s wife Bonnie Piesse left NXIVM in 2017. Bonnie joined the dots first as she observed several women starving themselves and becoming mentally unwell. She later discovered the branding rituals and Raniere’s sexual exploitation. MV did not believe his wife. He attempted to dismiss her suspicions and it placed strain on their marriage when she left NXIVM first in 2017. She persisted and eventually MV was persuaded, leaving several months after his wife. Interestingly, around the same time NXIVM was starting to receive negative press about it being a pyramid scheme employing fraudulent practices. As part of the inner circle MV would have been aware of this. Allegedly the FBI only looked at NXIVM for fraud post MV’s departure but it does beg the question as to the true motivation behind MV’s departure. He was in the inner circle and privy to sensitive information after all.
My issue is less to do with what he did whilst in NXIVM for over a decade. He did abuse SOP members he was responsible for, but, it could be argued that MV was himself brainwashed by Raniere.
My issue is what he did after leaving. He provided the FBI with his video footage, ok, this could have been an attempt to make amends. It might also have helped MV to avoid prosecution himself.
He then immediately started work on his documentary the Vow which aired on HBO. I find that odd. If a person wakes up to the fact they have been in a cult, that they have physically and psychologically abused other members of that cult, that takes some reconciling. The guilt would be overwhelming. MV reconciles his guilt by selling his documentary to HBO.
I have not seen any interview where MV addresses or attempts to take any responsibility for his own behaviour in NXIVM. Quite the opposite, he paints himself only as a victim of Raniere. Maybe he does address it honestly and genuinely and I just haven’t found the information, but he certainly doesn’t seem damaged or haunted by his time in NXIVM. When I compare that to Doug’s reaction years after leaving Scientology, someone who did not abuse others during his time in the cult, MV’s behaviour is remarkably ‘different’.
This is not to suggest that MV is a narcissist. I have no idea what he is. It’s simply to provide some background and highlight a few of the red flags I found.
Thank you for the link to the documentary Mari, I might hold my iPad at arms length and squint watch an episode! I have seen MV in an interviewing role previously. In fairness he irritates me far less as interviewer than interviewee.
Dear Truth Seeker,
Wow! Thank you for your replies, what stellar insight and information.
I have read and absorbed it all.
Yes ,I think it could be safe to say MV is not the same ilk as Doug. I was aware I might have been somewhat taken in by his minimal ‘warmth and empathy’ persona on the Inst@Guru doc. It might be there somewhat, but as I said, there seems to be a steely core that might not allow him full empathic realness.
I mean, you’ve come up with clear facts.
Could he realistically have been an agent-infiltrator of the cult and his HBO speed deal, might have been down to prior ‘gonnegtions’? Something doesn’t smell quite right, does it?
Same as you, couldn’t even listen to that initial podcast I found him on.
I was mildly intrigued by the contrast when hosting/interviewing.
I am not sure you’d get a whole lot from squint-watching insta@guru, TS, but I trust you can make your own mind up about that quickly enough 😀
To enter a cult at 39 and do the fast track to a sadistic inner circle…eyebrow raised if I could raise it.
This bit:
“What is clear, is that as leader of the SOP, MV was a doer, not the done to. We can debate the fact that MV was a victim and in Raniere’s thrall, but this does not excuse the fact that despite not being prosecuted like other high ranking members (because he was not part of the prosecution focus which was the DOS sorority) MV was also abusive to other (mostly male) NXIVM members. ”
Absolutely.
In his court transcript thing, he was putting himself in the same light as his wife. The trauma she AND he endured, but that did not quite sit right either. That was supposed to be a statement about his wife’s experience.
Addition and correction. MV did not direct The Vow. He supplied his personal and archival video footage and was a central character in the Vow. Jehane Noujaim and Karin Namer were the directors.
Have you watched the documentary “I Psychopath”, NA? I watched it back in 2022 while I was on a quest for answers after a traumatic life event (obviously prior to discovering HG’s work). I just checked, and it’s still on YouTube. The video is called “My Life As A Psychopath”. I won’t give anything away, but I suspect you will find the answer to what they both are – and what they are not – there. I have my opinion, but it would be interesting to hear your thoughts if you choose to watch it.
Hi Scandi.
I have not watched I Psychopath but it is now on my list. Thank you.
Holy shit Scandinavia and Everyone in Tudor land:
I just saw an old interview of Sam Vaknim. I sent it to Isla. I don’t know who but it was sent to me. I have been on a writing campaign so?
But 20 year old Sam compares himself to Einstein and is working on experiments to mind reading. Then he speaks about science and physics and he is on a discovery to space travel in time. 20 year old Sam quotes all these people, just like he does today.
He claimed he went to university at 9 but the Israeli journalist discusses he graduated high school at 16. He went a year early not at 9. Total lie!
Either he is a total whack job with psychosis or he was a pathological delusional lying narc as young as 20. Watch First Interview with Sam Vaknim on You tube!
This man must be stopped!
He will have been a narcissist for a decade by the time of that interview.
And Sam not only can read minds, create space time travel but he predicted the assassination of the pope with his psychic abilities. People: this is Sam age 20! Interviewed by Israel tv! Quoting himself as Einstein. Of course listing scientists to support his theories. Plus Sam said he went to college at 9! This Israeli reporter says so you graduated high school at 16!
He says he is 80% correct in his predictions
Sam lies lies and lies.
HG: it’s time, at least explain this BS
What specifically would you like me to explain?
hello NarcAngel (and HG), excuse my interjection. i had a squint at that doc with SV and wife in it, because others mentioned his behaviour. the wife scored comparatively high to SV in empathy, kindness, etc, in that psychopath test.
now, whether the test is water tight in the way HG’s detectors are, i can’t possibly say. did she fool the test with cognitive empathy in a way that is impossible for HG’s tests?
she comes across in vids as having some empathy. she isn’t someone i feel i’d like, but she doesn’t automatically give me narc hackles…
she grew up in an abusive home and learnt coping strategies with narcs, she says.
i know this does not answer your question, but it got me considering that she might be a co-D empath, or even a normal, possibly influenced in a negative way by SV.
I can imagine HG’s tolerance whiskers twitching a bit now. I guess you don’t want much more detailed stuff about him, or his Unfortunate Counterpart, on your blog, am I right, or am i second guessing? : )
It is relevant to the subject of narcissism therefore it is permissible. I will let you know when I grow bored of reading about it.
i trust that! no need for second guessing. thank you.
“He is not as aware as one first thought, is the short answer.”
Does this mean that narcissists could have varying degrees of awareness, HG? Or is it your way of saying that Vaknin is not an aware narcissist at all?
I would not place him in the categorisation of Greater as a consequence of the evidence that has come to light.
Thank you, HG, for your clarifying reply. I clearly remember you mentioned something similar a couple of years back too (that he was less aware than he liked to come across as, or words to that effect). This was obviously long before the documentary was a reality and new evidence surfaced, so I must say I’m mighty impressed by your insight.
Thank you. I’ll expand on this in due course.
Dear HG,
Thank you for doing a video about Dolly today! She was such a sweetheart of a person and did so much for other people! She will be deeply missed. I really appreciate you taking the time to acknowledge her life, the impact she made and her death. Thank you, HG! Xx
You’re welcome.
I’d like to add this caveat for clarity and context: Aside from the victim traits, I also believe SV portrays strong cerebral traits, though it may not be in the way or to the degree he would like to think and make-believe.
To keep it brief, my first impression is that his narcissism also uses the cerebral for the pursuit of the Prime Aims through the assertion of control over an audience and other people who consume his information; to gain access to a considerable fuel matrix and a fertile hunting ground for the alleged targeting and abuse of his clients; to collect and portray character traits, skills, and other qualifications that he may or may not truly possess; and to gain residual benefits. These are only my first impressions for now, as I watch how the debacle unfolds.
Moreover, I believe SV’s non-aware status does not negate or reduce the harm he has caused his alleged victims. Narcissists destroy lives, whether they are aware of their narcissism or not.
I am eager to hear what Mr Tudor will have to say about it all when he eventually does.
PS: Thank you, WhoCares, for providing that additional context about SV’s interaction with his wife during the confrontation in the documentary; I haven’t watched it, so that information helped me better understand what was happening.
Hi Isabelle,
I agree with you about Vaknin’s cerebral traits. He uses them to pursue the Prime Aims.
When he gives his long-winded answers or speeches, his main purpose is to dominate the conversation and manipulate the listeners for his own self-serving reasons.
Isabelle LaRoche,
Glad it was helpful.
“The Narcissist Who Would Be King”.
Hello to all!
If I may interject here, I’d like to share an interesting and insightful article about the Greater Narcissist, i.e. the truly ‘aware’ narcissist: https://narcsite.com/2017/04/28/the-greater-narcissist-2/
Could SV be a Greg? I think not.
From the beginning of Isla’s exposé, it was evident to me that SV may be aware of his NPD diagnosis, but is clearly not aware of the inner workings of his narcissism. He may be ‘malign’, as most narcissists usually are, but he seems to operate entirely on instinct. We are currently witnessing the ever-present collateral consequences of the sloppy, unaware narcissist catching up to him.
I was never able to listen to one of his videos despite YouTube’s harassment of my feed with suggestions to do so. Given the kinds of behaviour we are discovering that he engages in with his clients, I am glad my instinct saved me a lot of time wasted listening to him.
From what I have heard about him in this debacle so far, my first impression is that SV scores rather high in victimhood. Here’s one of HG’s breakdowns of victimhood and the narcissist that has been a good refresher for me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEfIFu0cl88.
Although, well, he clearly views himself as a cerebral (cue: ‘Professor’), ubervillainy ‘narcissistic psychopath’. Oh dear! Here’s a good selection of renowned poems about delusion: https://www.poetrysoup.com/famous/poems/delusion.
Looking forward to your analysis of him in due course, HG.
PS: Thank you for encouraging me to comment more, Leigh. I am not sure I can because of the demands on my time at the moment, but I am reading and following, and I might drop in to say a few words when time allows.
Hello Isabelle:
Thanks for the info. Helpful! X
Scandi,
You read my mind! I was wondering if there were varying degrees of awareness too.
Mr. Tudor,
Would the “Narcissist Who Would be King” apply to Vaknin?
There are numerous examples of inconsistency and bias in the comments under this post. As a result, I can’t help having mixed feelings and conflicting thoughts.
I question the ‘wisdom’ of mentioning the following because, from experience, to say anything is likely to backfire. From experience, it tends to result in a case of ‘shooting the messenger’ rather than really listening to the message.
For the sake of democracy and ‘free speech’, I shall soldier on …
1. I find the way Sam Vaknin’s ‘intelligence’ is questioned under this post interesting.
Vaknin has written a number of books that are well-known around the world. He wrote the books in English, which is not his native language. His native language is Hebrew. He has given speeches in English and has conducted academic seminars in English.
Vaknin also has a YouTube channel where his content is in English. His prolix speaking manner is all in English.
I doubt that Vaknin writes about historical figures in psychology by misspelling their names. I don’t think his books would be known worldwide if he wrote about Sigmind Froid, Karl Young, or Jon Bolbi. He takes care not to spell these names the way they sound to him in his native language.
Yet, his wife’s name is frequently spelled incorrectly by those who wouldn’t know a word in Macedonian. It’s not Lydia or Lidia or Lidiya. In her native Macedonian language, it is Lidija.
To check the spelling of Lidija’s name, it would require a quick Google search that would take less than a minute.
So, who has the entitlement or the hubris or the carelessness in this example?
2. The ‘facade’ that Isla Traquair presented over the course of months, pretending to be genuinely interested in interviewing Sam Vaknin, is described here as ‘composure’ or ‘bravery’ or ‘having twelve pairs of balls’.
It was a deceptive facade and it looks a lot like love-bombing. It was a trap, orchestrated consciously by a group of filmmakers, to lead Vaknin into a situation where his reaction and humiliation would be filmed.
Whichever way you look at it, the plan was dishonest and self-serving, despite the underlying good intentions of protecting alleged victims from abuse.
To applaud Isla Traquair for her ‘composure’ and ‘bravery’ while denigrating Sam Vaknin for his contemptible behaviour looks a lot like hypocrisy.
3. I think it’s obvious that Sam Vaknin and his wife are in a codependent marriage. Each of them benefit from what the other brings to the relationship. One could say that it’s equally codependent.
During Isla Traquair’s podcast, it was interesting that both she and Richard Grannon spoke about Lidija in belittling terms, and both used the same words to do it, that is, words to the effect of: “Lidija piped up to say … “. When Richard Grannon was talking about Lidija’s reaction, he also mimicked her accent in an insulting way.
The way both Isla Traquair and Richard Grannon used the same words about Lidija made me think they were mirroring each other. Also, they both showed a kind of dismissive contempt towards her. In my opinion, they diminished her as though she was a child or as though her involvement was irrelevant.
This makes me think that neither of them truly care about the plight of all women in general, nor do they understand the codependency between a narcissist and a ‘victim’ from a truly well-informed or well-intentioned way.
WiserNow,
Thanks for schooling us on the various spellings of “Lidia.”
Richard Grannon is likely simply contemptuous in general.
If you follow Isla Traquair’s podcast, and Patreon platform, you might be aware that there’s further specific reasons for Isla’s contempt towards Vaknin’s wife.
Hi WhoCares,
In my comment, I made a point about the way Lidija Rangelovska’s name is often misspelled.
I wasn’t ‘schooling’ you or anyone else. I didn’t think I’d need to since all it would take to get the correct spelling is a quick Google search.
In my comment, I made other points as well based on my thoughts after I listened to Isla Traquair’s podcast. I think we all can and do make points about a lot of things.
Hi Wisernow:
I appreciate your input. I don’t know Sam’s wife. I don’t know Richard Grannon. I have no idea about his fight with Sam. I saw the movie and you might have read my feedback but it was not positive.
The allegations are that there are multiple women who have been “ treated” by Sam who held himself out as a therapist ( no license) and I saw one text where he said he was a “ medical doctor” then he slept with them and abused them. I read a few of his texts. If you want to see the evidence, I doubt she will post the pictures … she says she has 1000s…. but a few messages are there. Go to Patreon and pay 7.00. Are they authentic? Isla says she has the meta data and I doubt she would falsify evidence. I suspect you would not accuse her of being that un-professional ( and a defamation case waiting to happen). I saw a text from Sam to a patient referencing rape and the woman is interviewed saying it happened. I have not seen the police reports but I am told there are 3 police reports. since this movie, more women are calling Isla with stories that are disgusting. She says she will share their interviews. Some are too embarrassed to take action. One allegedly would suffer family consequences. Others are afraid of Sam. The report so far is 20-30. I will look at all the evidence presented but so far I have seen and heard enough texts and testimony about one victim that I find enough… for me. Texts and messages and photos are circumstantial evidence except perhaps holding yourself out as a doctor or therapist without a license. I have not seen the hard evidence of medical reports and dna etc… just a witness testimony … so far.
It’s one thing to consult like HG does. It’s another to tell a young vulnerable woman in a mental health crisis that you are a therapist and/ or a medical doctor when you are NOT. Then while in therapy have sex and abuse them. Rape is a crime.
If you have seen the evidence, the texts, the testimony then please tell me if you disagree with me and why? I respect you.
Right now, I care about the victims. The two stories I have heard involve crimes.
This is not over and I do champion Isla for helping them.
We have listened to each others stories here on this blog and often provide comfort. This is without evidence. Shouldn’t we do the same for them?
As for me, without sharing too much, I am committed to Isla and these women. I am all in.
Who knows how this will end? Time will tell. But EYES ARE WIDE OPEN and there are many working towards justice. The police. Isla. Others.
Please look at the evidence. Isla asked not to copy it and share. You must go to Patreon to see it.
Hi Contagious,
I think the allegations against Sam Vaknin are absolutely abhorrent and sickening. He should be investigated by law enforcement and the many items of ‘evidence’ that Isla Traquair has should be handed to police.
Like you, I don’t know much about Sam Vaknin or Richard Grannon, and to be honest I don’t want to find out more about them based on what I’ve seen so far.
I’ve listened to a few podcasts recently in addition to Isla Traquair’s. Some have been about true crimes, including: a case of domestic violence where police failed to investigate properly; and a case of a missing person presumed murdered whose body hadn’t been found.
In my opinion, things start to get murky when ‘evidence’ linked to an alleged crime is treated like a form of entertainment to attract an audience.
I agree with you that rape is a serious crime.
There are so many crimes and injustices everywhere, Contagious. How do we pick and choose which ones we’re going to support?
Today, here on the news, there was a case of a 16-year-old girl who had died from strangulation after she was choked during sex. It was reported that the ‘choking’ during sex was consensual. Then a spokesperson said that young people are learning about sex by watching extreme forms of porn before they are old enough to have their first kiss.
It’s craziness and it’s everywhere.
Well my dear:
You have to start somewhere, and do what you can when you can. The why this? I have no idea.
SV I guess did a video on gang stalkers. People whose whole identity is being a victim and references the #metoo movement. These victims who he calls narcissists then get flying monkeys and others in Academia and law etc… and those others are often “ “arrogant psychopaths. “ I get this from Mark Vicente talking on Islas latest podcast. Perhaps I am a psychopath lol
For me, it’s when it falls in my lap. Ie An elderly woman comes to me with a story that moves me…so I helped save her home for FREE.
Many times it’s freebies for family or friends.
When I was young, I founded a national charitable arm for abused and neglected children. It’s still going , I am not involved.
Etc… etc….
About 10 years ago, I took on a rape case of a Hollywood actor for some money but put too many hours in unpaid. I sued Germany in LA and the accuser. Germany investigated and gave him 200$ with an apology. It was all lies that this woman claimed because she was married, got pregnant by him and didn’t want to share custody. He is a good dad.
I don’t know why but I love to help. I love to see justice served.
One of my favorite things to do is see someone sad or stressed and say something kind or flattering and see them pause for a moment and smile.
And sadly, there are so many causes to join out there…. Too many choices in this crazy world. I agree with you there.
How do you pick one? For me, something stirs….I grab my sword and run… hoping to help in any small or big way I can. I always have wished I had more money and time to do more…… sigh
Wisernow:
One last thing… it’s texts. So let’s say Sam takes the position that it was a private affair. He could explain away his references at in the text I saw saying I was just role playing in a relationship… I told her I was a therapist and medical doctor just joking, it’s what we did for over the years. Texts are circumstantial evidence. Hard to convict on this basis.
But a discussion on rape. Why? Why would a person involved with another person discuss a rape? Again circumstantial evidence but less likely to be explained away.
Thus… is there any direct or hard evidence which is medical etc… . I don’t know and if there is an ongoing police investigation or three… Isla may st be careful. And it’s complicated if there might have been “ consent” and on an occasion it was forced. It used to be a husband could rape his wife. That’s changed in the USA, now you can be prosecuted for rape even if married
Hi Contagious,
As backwards as some States in the USA have become about women’s bodies and their own rights, I wouldn’t be surprised if they don’t start allowing husband’s to rape their wives again. Some States are now allowing women to die before the doctors are allowed to treat her for removal of a deceased baby. They allow her to die from infections because the doctors are afraid of being arrested for performing “abortion” on a deceased baby. Debbie Reynolds did an interview , years ago, with Joan Rivers and she talked about how she almost died because doctors refused to remove her dead baby. She had to carry the baby to full term and it almost killed her. That was years ago and now, in some States, they have brought that ridiculous law back. A doctor should never be made NOT TO TREAT A PATIENT AND SAVE THEIR LIFE. I feel and think this country has not only lost their minds, but their hearts as well. No one should be forced to carry a deceased baby. It is mentally, physically and enotionally damaging to the mother and anyone who cares about her. This craziness needs to stop! Xx
Rebecca: no words… no words… but thank you for sharing and educating me.
I had a go of I, Psychopath yesterday. I was curious about Lidija’s vibe and SV’s petulant behaviour, as mentioned here.
His first psychology/personality questionnaire revealed highest indications of shizotypal and schizoid personality, peaking at avoidant. Belinda Board, the psychologist, made a point of saying his narcissistic score was relatively low.
He kept alluding to himself as a psychopath, but it does not wash. I agree with Truthseeker and HG that he wants to be one.
As for being an ‘aware narcissist’: I think that is not entirely true. It seems he likes to wear the badge, but true inner awareness is lacking in my opinion, which means he is not as clever as he likes to think. Someone on YT saying he must be a greater narcissist, because he is aware of his narcissism. Nah. He does not have the sophistication, charisma and status, surely? I suppose he might be a mid ranger, but I would not be surprised if he was an upper lesser type B. They can be clever, charming, funny, successful enough, but unpleasant, abusive bullies. I’m not sure if his petulance and abusiveness in I,Psychopath was a genuine lack of control or if he was indulging it for a bit of fuel and drama. Ie, he has the ability to maintain some facade control, but chose not to during the filming.
I also watched a teeny clip of a vid with SV and wife: “Lidija, Why Are You Still with Sam Vaknin? (and SEX!)” Again, just to get a perfunctory recky of his wife.
In I, Psychopath, she scored quite highly in another test – I think the Hare one – on empathy and kindness, etc. So I wonder if she might be either a normal or codependent empath. She had abusive parents and learnt ‘coping strategies’, which she reportedly uses with SV.
It’s apparent he withholds sex from her. Lucky Lidija! Too busy taking it out on clients, perhaps?
I’d seen pics of Lidija and didn’t like the glint in her eyes, so if she is empathic or normal, it’s very likely she’s been twisted by her addiction to SV.
Just one more thing (am Columbo in my dreams): in this vid, he claims to be a cerebral narcissist and that he invented the term cerebral narcissist. Really?!
Ohhh Mari:
This was a great analysis. I go darker. I wonder if he has paraphilia. Is he a serial rapist? I have only seen evidence of one text regarding rape and heard two testimonies about it. I don’t know if all the police reports are about rape. Perhaps I watch too many crime documentaries but I wonder what if he uses YT to lure victims into counseling as he has a particular compulsion. If so, what Isla has done would perhaps put him in a “cooling off period “ which could be lengthy…. And given his age… maybe it’s wishful thinking he won’t do it again. That’s my concern is whatever he is, he has this compulsion.
SV would be good for a Tudor scope as would his wife but HG doesn’t seem to be interested at this time:)
My last input on I Psycho is the exam. I am not certain the test ALONE is enough. Dr Hare himself interviewed Ted Bundy for example and while Ted scored at 49? Very high. No doubt there were lots of things he investigated to make his diagnosis. Same with Sam’s wife. Isla is going to do more on her. One of the victims has a lot to say. I don’t know enough to begin to comment…
Isla Traquair described him as a serial rapist.
i wonder if he ‘invented’ that term as well as cerebral narcissist! : )
Yes I caught up and heard that and she listed his sexual sadism. Looks like my guess was on track….and who knows how long he has been doing this… since prison when he started his narcissism social media or before. All I can say is the more I learn… I image SV will face legal consequences. I am surprised SV has not yet.
Contagious! You have a good point there, regarding paraphilia. I’d go so far as to say, ‘Not ‘alf!’
What a sordid mess.
I enjoyed reading your reply. I know you’re a busy woman in the field, so I appreciate your time and informational insights.
Thanks Mari- I enjoy yours too and so many here give me insight and new thoughts. The thing about narcissism and also Machiavellianism And sadism… for me, it is always so hard to understand the WHY? With psychopathy, it can be clear… well … he wanted the money so he lied, cheated and stole. I don’t agree with how the psycho got them- murder, robbery etc… but I get it. It makes sense. Wrong but there’s logic to it.
But to want to take over someone’s mind in order to control them, to crave that sort of dependency, to spend years and multiple manipulations and methods to get it- this is what you want? WHY? Icky ick. I mean what is evil if not destroying a soul. To me, it’s what Satanism is. And WHY? And SV talks about enjoying this very process when talking to Mark Vicente… Sam said he enjoys dismantling a brain, and wanting them to kill themselves. Being able to make someone commit suicide is “the ultimate act.” WTF. I think…. isn’t that why Ted Bundy didn’t just rape them, he killed them? Sam speaks of it like it’s an aphrodisiac….Power over a brain of another. To me it’s like a zombie biting someone to make a zombie. Both roles suck. WHY? What part of any of that process would be enjoyable. Why want a dependent? A talking parrot as a companion? I would not want that…. It’s like where’s the pleasure in raping someone versus having the bliss of sex … ?
And listening to Isla’s slow paced bit by bit , inch by inch podcast, you actually see through these women’s eyes. It’s like being in a horror movie. For me, I feel them slowly falling. As I listen, I get this feeling to jump in and say STOP!!! Don’t go there! Danger!!! He is right around the corner… !!! RUN. Then, you listen and you feel them sinking in deeper and deeper… and you want to pull your hair out! No! No! No therapist asks if his wife can listen to your sessions! No! No! No business person asks you to bring large amounts of cash for a therapy session! No! No! What you bought his wife a designer purse in Paris because she asked! No!!! Why is she involved in your therapy to begin with? No! And then…. Sam cries, Sam tells his sad life stories, Sam bombards them with non-stop attention, Sam convinces them that they need him and he needs them, they are special, he is unique and special…(.its a match made in HELL. ) Sam wants to hold hands….. No! A therapist doesn’t hold hands! He wants to come to their home and meet the family! WTF? Sam is now trusted and very close …. he is good with the child. Makes funny faces! Tells the child sweet stories. The friends are impressed with his credentials! Oh! He is the best…, “ you are so lucky to know him!” He is so brilliant! They feel proud to showcase Sam as one of their inner circle.
They tell him everything a patient does tell a therapist. Deepest secrets. Deepest fears, he diagnoses them as “very very sick and to survive, they need him.” There are real problems. There are wounds. Time goes by… No! No!!! Don’t sign adoption papers! You are 35! What therapists asks to be your legal father?!!!’ No!No!!! A therapist doesn’t tell a patient that he is in love with you! What happened to the role as Daddy! Incest is best? Hell no!!! RUN!!!!’
BUT Their greatest fear is losing him from their lives as Sam is now everything. Sam is their therapist, confident, best friend, father, son….. and soon to be lover… YEARS go by…. Years…. the victim has fallen into the bear trap, the hole in the ground. The verbal and sexual abuse awaits……. The mind is in the bear trap.
And somewhere Sam in his mind hears the thud, she has landed. Sam thinks “ Gotcha” and then….. the real games begin… and that part of Isla’s horror story has just scratched the surface…. It’s just really begun. And this is just one of the cast in the show, many more to enter the story.
There are so many tricks, so many lies, so many manipulations that I didn’t or couldn’t list all of them. We know the moves by being educated by HG. We know narcissism even by classification thanks to HG. But I think Sam takes it a step further…. Not every narc goes as far. Serial rape, sadism etc… and what’s so bizarre is how many write books about it ? or take personal experiences and turn it into a lecture on YouTube? which he does. I just learned on the latest podcast Sam actually does YouTube videos on these women and his experiences with them. He sometimes gives them nicknames and says it in that episode.
Sam is unique in that sense. But not so unique… at least as far as the penal codes go… his actions fit nice and neatly into their definition.
But you must have the evidence…and the victims must have the strength to take the stand.
It’s all horrific to me. But this pace, this little by little cuts to the psyche… I feel I know what’s going on, but this slow narrative by a real victim in a real time pursuit to stop Sam. I feel it. A horror film.
Hi Contagious,
“…And listening to Isla’s slow paced bit by bit , inch by inch podcast, you actually see through these women’s eyes. It’s like being in a horror movie. For me, I feel them slowly falling. As I listen, I get this feeling to jump in and say STOP!!! Don’t go there! Danger!!! He is right around the corner… !!! RUN. Then, you listen and you feel them sinking in deeper and deeper… and you want to pull your hair out! No! No! No therapist asks if his wife can listen to your sessions! No! No! No business person asks you to bring large amounts of cash for a therapy session! No! No! What you bought his wife a designer purse in Paris because she asked! No!!! Why is she involved in your therapy to begin with? No! And then…. Sam cries, Sam tells his sad life stories, Sam bombards them with non-stop attention..”
I know the podcast episode that you’re referencing above and I agree it’s quite the journey we’re being taken on through Isla’s coverage of these events. It’s more interesting to hear from the victim (then Vaknin droning on) and learn how things developed in her ensnarement (very, very gradually, as in the majority of cases). Personally, I feel that I have been taken back, in listening to “Ann” (the name Isla calls the main victim) to much earlier in my education in narcissistic abuse and having similar reactions as yourself – but also remembering how the ways in which I was sucked in and duped (in my ensnarement) were not necessarily things that would have succeeded in deceiving others – and in turn – when I have listened to the stories of other, I know there are deceptions that they fell prey to but that I feel I would not have been susceptible to. However, every one of us had weaknesses and blind spots that were exploited and taken advantage of. Despite that, it’s interesting that Ann’s experience all took place within the confines of a supposed patient/therapist relationship – or grew, insidiously, from that.
I am listening to episode 13 at this time (while doing laundry), in which Grannon takes center stage. He recounts his childhood experiences to Isla and then how he himself has been duped by Vaknin. Ugh, I am struggling to stomach how Isla herself is taken in by Grannon’s manipulations. It is like layer upon layer of manipulation, and it will be interesting to see how well this all ages…in future revelations.
Hi Contagious,
“BUT Their greatest fear is losing him from their lives as Sam is now everything. Sam is their therapist, confident, best friend, father, son….. and soon to be lover… YEARS go by…. Years…. ”
I’ve just listened to Episode 10 of Isla’s podcast and I’m part way through the victim Ann’s account of her association with Vaknin.
While listening, I had questions.
For one thing, Ann was married with children at the time. She had people in her life who she could have turned to and who could have stepped in. She had children who depended on her. She wasn’t some poor, young, homeless or desperate waif.
This sounds like I’m victim-blaming and I’m not. Instead, I’m trying to look at the bigger picture.
Ann’s husband sounded like a supportive and generous man. After he met Vaknin, he told Ann that Vaknin was a conman and a fraud and that she shouldn’t believe him. He wasn’t taken in.
This makes me think, why didn’t Ann believe her husband and cut ties with Vaknin? And why didn’t her husband step in and insist that she no longer see him? If he thought Vaknin was a fraud, why did he allow his wife to keep getting conned and keep paying for therapy? She was spending tens of thousands of Euros. And who was looking after the children while Ann was travelling for therapy and spending her time organising events and attending them with Vaknin? Her children were young at the time.
It all sounds very strange to me even though I can understand that the abuse is very insidious and that victims do get sucked in and are susceptible to manipulation.
Also, Contagious,
“Sam tells his sad life stories … ”
In the episode of Isla’s podcast I’ve just listened to, Vaknin talks about his childhood and family history.
While listening, I thought, here we go, he’s Jason Arday 2.0.
His stories were so far-fetched, I had to pause the podcast a couple of times just to take a breath, roll my eyes, and stop myself from swearing at the computer screen.
Seriously, who in their right mind would sit listening to his ‘stories’ and believe them?
He said that by the age of 19, he was such a prodigy in his home town that there were newspaper articles written about him “every day”. He said that “broadsheet newspapers” would have full-page articles about him on a daily basis.
What were the daily full-page broadsheet articles actually about? His most recent pimple? His latest trip to the shops where he bought a pair of trainers?
I’m being sarcastic and I really don’t mean to minimise the harm Vaknin caused to victims. I do feel for them.
Part of me is also angry that Vaknin’s BS has been so easily believed.
Not by you WN, not by me and not by many others. I understand your anger however which has a sound basis.
Hi again Contagious,
I keep thinking about your comment and some of the things you have said …
“And listening to Isla’s slow paced bit by bit , inch by inch podcast, you actually see through these women’s eyes.”
On the one hand, I would say that Isla’s slow-paced podcast and Ann’s inch-by-inch account of how everything developed does make me see more clearly “through these women’s eyes”.
On the other hand, it also makes me have many more questions and I ask myself how and why Ann didn’t stop the association way sooner.
Again, this is not victim-blaming. I want to make that absolutely clear. Instead, I’m being honest about my thoughts while listening to the podcast, and I’m trying to understand.
I believe Ann’s account of things and I believe that things happened the way she says they did.
There were so many points during Ann’s account where I felt a sense of alarm and thought to myself, wow, that’s a red flag; why did she agree with that?
I thought, she sounds like a rational, intelligent woman. She was in her thirties, married, had children, and was relatively wealthy. She had friends and a social life. So why didn’t she do some research, or discuss his ‘stories’ with other people and ask questions before becoming so involved for years?
What you say Contagious, about seeing more clearly how this ‘horror film’ unfolded has a dual effect.
I believe Ann, and the details of her account do make me see more clearly … AND … her account also raises questions for me.
Crikey Moses, Contagious. I feel nauseous. I think he needs popping into the North Sea, really. What an abhorrent, idiotic mentalist and what an absolute mess. Sounds increasingly like his betrothed is an abhorrent mess as well, for whatever reason.
I’ve watched only till Ep 7, 1WC says she is on Ep 13, so I’ve just seen many more episodes have sprung up!
Hi Mari,
I was thinking if it were the Vaknin were an Upper Lesser, he would not have been able to keep his cool for so long during the confrontation with Isla. He definitely does not have a hair trigger on his ignited fury.
Fair point, thanks 1WC! My father is an upper lesser B and he can be reeeeeally calm when challenged, except I know it’s a wobbling lid on a boiling pan. He does/did when younger, this kind of “psycho” cool, glib thing, but it never came across as kind or charming. He loves Jack Nicholson, think Jack Nicholson :D.
That’s not really a facade though is it? Perhaps that’s in the remit of cold fury with “psycho sprinkles”. I would guess SV is a mid ranger, but equally not surprised if he was an upper lesser type B, due to his abusive and erratic conduct. That conduct can apply to more narcs than upper lesser B’s tho, as I understand it!
Hi Mari,
Sorry, I just saw this.
“My father is an upper lesser B and he can be reeeeeally calm when challenged..” That’s impressive.
Re: Jack Nicholson. I get what you mean. Although, I feel like Jack can be fairly charming (more than SV). I am thinking of “The Witches of Eastwick” or “Wolf”.
Incidentally, I recently let me son watch “The Shining”, as he’s heard references from schoolmates and wanted to know what it’s all about.
He said (about Nicholson): “Those eyebrows are crazy!”
Dear 1WC, thank you for your response. I dunno about ‘impressive’, but he would like that :D. More like storing up ammo for later.
When more able, he was good at calm, effective action in (acute) crisis or dilemma, so I’ll give him a point for that – minus 3 points for inevitably spoiling it all later.
The Jack Nicholson reference was a bit loose, I was thinking of his more ominous and calm smirks, so I understand your point!
Crazy eyebrows must not be underestimated! 😀
On the SV note: I’ve heard a few references on Isla’s podcast to his crying on numerous occasions, which does point more toward the ‘crybaby’ midranger doesn’t it? Can’t recall which one is most prone to that without checking. Although he does seem suspiciously ‘co-morbid’ in his behaviours, not sure narcissism is the full bag.
Episode 6 of Isla’s podcast was a total letdown.
I understand that she was sleep deprived and nervous, but from what was discussed lated in episode, my conclusion it was just a lack of understanding and preparation.
1. To slam the Sam she should’ve made her point sting – show some evidence, some recording, something. Instead she telegraped her attack in a shaking voice like a freshman journalist.
2. The interview was almost perfect for later revelation, but the actual most incriminating point is that he abused his client in clinical practice. She could’ve let him speak about practice in general, ask about narcs in practice, and then attack.
3. When he said to his wife Lydia “you shouldn’t be talking about that” – he was clearly not admitting having sex with victims. He was asserting control over his wife, who became self-righteous and spoke too much.
4. Later discussion Isla said “I though we was gonna blow up, angry. But he did not. I think this is because he liked me”. Not at all. He was in control the whole time, why would he blow up? He even schooled Isla and she looked stupid.
It looks like Isla and crew thought you say to a narc “You re bad!” and he starts screaming with temper tantrum like a toddler. Very much underestimated Sam, he just lectured her and slowly jettison. Sad, there was a great potential there.
I agree in general, JohnTheRevelator (great name by the way).
I thought the interview itself, especially the end of it, wasn’t very well planned. I agree that the questions should have included a way to show Vaknin concrete evidence he couldn’t deny.
Leading up to the day of the interview, there seemed to be quite a lot of planning. That is, there were meetings with Isla to discuss her involvement in the film, and then Isla spent months arranging the interview. There was travel and planning to secure the location and organise the setting, etc.
I don’t really blame Isla because of the pressure she was under. At that point of the interview, she was carrying the premise of the whole film. She was very aware that the success of this ‘plan’ was riding on her. She was also cognisant of the costs involved, and that her rapport with Vaknin and her demeanour during the interview were the main factors that would lead the film to this ‘gotcha’ moment.
The other thing is that Isla may not be fully aware about narcissists and what to do around them. It was her first in-person meeting with Vaknin. At first she was friendly and accommodating, which seemed to be more natural for her. At the point where she had to change course and ask direct questions about his abuse, it seemed she had not envisioned that she’d have to adopt a more resolute and strident approach.
Also, it showed that both Isla and the film crew were not knowledgeable about how Vaknin was likely to respond. They had police outside the apartment as though Vaknin would become physically violent or launch an out-of-control attack. If they were aware that Vaknin is cerebral and has a more solid facade, they’d have been prepared for a verbal reaction and one of ‘deny and deflect’.
It was still a telling interview, though.
It sounded like Vaknin was sorry to leave. He hung around instead of storming off. I think that showed he was either confused or in denial about the trap that was set for him. He probably thought, “Why are you doing this? We could have had a mutually beneficial professional interview.” In the sense that this is what he normally does to make a living, he probably thought: ‘I scratch your back and you scratch mine.’
It makes me think that Vaknin is very self-entitled. He really believes his own hype and thinks he’s untouchable. That’s why he brags and pontificates and doesn’t bother to hide his bad behaviour. For decades, he has been invited to seminars by respectful universities, he is described as a professor or doctor or scholar, and people listen to him unquestioningly.
JohnTheRevelator,
I have a few observations about your statements.
1. I would argue that Isla is only getting started. It was a direct confrontation, the very first one, not the end-all-be-all of the matter. One doesn’t go into a first confrontation in such a situation with one’s hand exposed (showing evidence, recordings, etc). I am actually glad she handled it that way. It allowed her to continue pursuing the matter without exposing the details of her evidence and who gave that information to her. This would ensure SV remained somewhat blind-sided throughout the process, but more importantly, it protected the victims from immediate repercussions from SV. One must play one’s cards with wisdom, especially when dealing with an aware malign narcissist such as the subject of this exposé, and I believe that is what Isla did.
2. It is very easy to see what could’ve or should’ve been said or done as a third-party observer from the comfort of one’s keyboard. Isla played a fool for months until that face-to-face confrontation. She won SV’s trust, got him to agree to the interview, got him to show up in person for the interview, and never let her façade crack once. SV definitely didn’t see it coming; he got played like a fiddle. Therefore, in that regard, the evidence shows that her efforts were fruitful and the plan was a success.
3. It is important to speak about the context. In that moment, he chose to direct his energy towards his wife, trying to stop her from denying the allegations that he had sex with his therapy clients (aka patients), instead of outright denying that himself or allowing his lieutenant to defend him. I believe that is what Isla was referring to. Also, his comment about the confrontation being unprofessional was classic narcissistic manipulation: blame-shifting (and projection, I may add). It was not Isla getting schooled or being subject to his control, in my view. Rather, SV was trying to keep *himself* under control, and not let his ignited fury erupt. The fact that Isla kept the interrogation and confrontation going until the very last moment was a sign that she was not under his control at all. I may have to listen to the podcast again, because I didn’t hear her voice shaking; quite the opposite. She was rather stern in her address to him, and didn’t fold under the pressure. She also didn’t give in to his attempts to shift blame, project his own lack of professionalism, and engage in a circular conversation.
If anything, she was giving him huge amounts of challenge fuel, which is potentially why he was taking forever to leave and kept engaging with her; the fuel was pouring out of her (and others in the room, by way of they facial expressions and body language) and was simply too potent to pass up. His fury was very clearly ignited, but he managed not to display it in front of the cameras (façade management). Instead, he used a series of manipulations to temporarily control it. He undoubtedly doled out lashes of devaluation to every person he interacted with the second he stepped out of that building and knew the cameras weren’t filming any longer.
4. I doubt that Isla has an advanced grasp of HG’s material at that moment of filming, which is why she wasn’t able to anticipate and appropriately interpret his response. The result is her surprise that SV didn’t lash out. In my view, that merely reflects Isla’s lack of knowledge about how the narcissist’s mind works, rather than proof of her being subject to his control or made to look stupid.
In this regard, I agree with your statement, ‘my conclusion it was just a lack of understanding’. But I do not see a lack of preparation; neither do I see a ‘freshman journalist’ at work here, but, again, quite the opposite.
Isla was sleep-deprived precisely because she was over-preparing. Isla and her team handled SV’s last-minute changes (assertions of control) and his multiple emails full of questions (also assertions of control) throughout those 48 hours leading up to the interview extremely well, in my opinion. She didn’t challenge him in any way despite having numerous reasons to do so, because she was *intentionally* trying to get Sam to feel in control of everything so that he wouldn’t see her confrontation coming. She gathered intel from the filmmakers about SV’s behaviour on set and prepared for potential disruptions beforehand, and it proved fruitful. For example, she was not taken aback by him peeing in a cup but stayed accommodating to give him a false sense of control. All that — and more — is evidence of her preparation and professionalism.
Moreover, it is important to state that after saying, ‘I thought we was gonna blow up, angry. But he did not. I think this is because he liked me’, Isla immediately corrected herself, stating she is aware that a narcissist can’t like anyone and SV definitely didn’t like her, so it must have been that SV saw a lot of value in what she had to offer in that specific collaboration instead of a sense of affinity between them.
I have written this long response because I observed that the evidence available to us contradicts many of your claims, JohnTheRevelator. Overall, there was a downplaying of Isla’s work and presentation of the facts out of context.
There are many things I personally hoped would have been handled differently in that interview, but I think it takes round about twelve pairs of balls to pull something like this off. I commend Isla Traquair for doing so.
In conclusion, the podcast is called ‘Storyteller’, so Isla is telling a story. I am certain future episodes will enlighten us more, and I look forward to them.
I’m tapping out. I think I have said enough, and I much prefer reading and observing anyway.
Thank you, Mr Tudor, for moderating.
Hi Isabelle,
You do realise you’re writing on a blog moderated by a self-confessed malignant narcissist, right?
Mr Tudor, as you respectfully address him, is himself willing to abuse ‘victims’ and has himself written about what he does, and how and why he does it.
The ‘outrage’ about Sam Vaknin that requires him to be ‘brought down’ while simultaneously defending and celebrating another malignant narcissist is almost comical.
Let’s be accurate. I’m a narcissistic psychopath. All narcissists engage in malign behaviours, malignant narcissist covers a wide range of differing narcissists and isn’t an overly helpful term.
The point I made still stands.
According to what Sam Vaknin says, he is a narcissistic psychopath as well.
Whether the word ‘malignant’ is used or not, doesn’t make any difference. The malignancy exists either way. Using the word ‘malignant’ is superfluous. In everyday language, it’s like saying ‘frozen ice’ or ‘wet water’.
The point I made is that it’s hypocritical to say that one narcissistic psychopath deserves to be hated and brought down, while another deserves to be treated like they can do no wrong.
By adopting such a blanket approach, you fail to take into account people´s subjective experiences, which have a considerable impact.
Vaknin would like to be a narcissistic psychopath, but he isn´t. He turns on the water works and pissed in a cup because he would not use a staircase that had no handrail to reach the toilet. Come on.
“Vaknin would like to be a narcissistic psychopath, but he isn´t. He turns on the water works and pissed in a cup because he would not use a staircase that had no handrail to reach the toilet. Come on.”
He’d likely call for his mom (or Lidiya) at the sight of a needle, or faint in a delivery room.
Hi WN,
Your comment about Mr. Tudor doing similar to his victims isn’t lost on me. Its something that crossed my mind as well.
I think its important to draw a distinction though. When Mr. Tudor is telling us these stories, he’s talking about his personal life. In the case of Vaknin, we’re talking about his professional life. For me, that’s a huge difference.
People went to Vaknin for help & he took advantage of them. He calls himself a therapist even though he’s not licensed to be a therapist. Then used that as leverage to cause more harm.
Mr. Tudor has repeatedly said that he is not a therapist. I’ve been on this blog for over 7 years and Mr. Tudor has never once taken advantage of me. I came to this blog for help & knowledge and that’s exactly what he provided.
For me, the outrage over Vaknin is justified because I find him repulsive for taking advantage of victims when they needed help the most. Vaknin is a vile human being.
Indeed and you will not find any individual who has consulted with me who has been subjected to abusive behaviour from me. After all, I am the Ultra.
Hi Leigh,
I have been consulting with HG for about 5 years now and hasn’t abused me. In fact, it would be idiotic for HG to abuse his clients and risk the abuse getting out. Look what is now happening to SV! HG is way too intelligent to abuse his professional clients. I don’t see that ever happening with HG. Xx
Hi Leigh,
Is there really such a huge difference if ‘abuse’ is done in a professional context rather than a personal one?
A couple of examples:
Ted Bundy went on killing sprees in his ‘personal’ life. Charles Manson created a murderous cult in his ‘personal’ life.
I realise these examples are at the extreme end of what a narcissistic psychopath can do. I’m using them to illustrate my point though.
Would it make any difference to police arresting Ted Bundy or Charles Manson if someone said, “But Officer, those things were done during personal time.” Or would a jury during a trial stop to think, “Hang on, the murders were done in his private life so we need to make an allowance for that.”
The more I learn about Sam Vaknin, the more I think he is a vile human being as well. This is based on the things he says and does in both a professional *and* personal context.
Like you, I’ve been on the blog for a while too. I agree with you that HG provides help and knowledge. I have benefited from being here and have gained knowledge and insights.
At the same time, while being here I have also seen and felt manipulation and gaslighting. I can see how comments are used at times to paint a certain picture – not just my comments, the comments of others as well. There are deceptive points of view and literally inaccurate things said about previous threads and comments. Viewpoints are framed in ways that benefit HG. Plus, there are things that are skewed or slanted in ways that are misleading.
It’s difficult to pinpoint these things specifically but they exist. HG writes about this kind of deceptive facade himself in the post ‘Why Can’t They See It Too?’
Another thing HG says often and repeatedly is that narcissists are *always* manipulating when interacting with another person. He says himself, repeatedly, that there is no such thing as a part-time narcissist.
Indeed however you omit to recognise benign manipulations as part of this equation. The narcissist will use those as part of love bombing and often repeatedly with NISSs. The recipient is treated well although it’s still a manipulation owing to the fact it’s for the needs of the narcissist as opposed to what the recipient believes it to be. I regularly explain in consultation how the dynamic between my client and me is a manipulation albeit benign and every single time the response is “I understand but I don’t feel manipulated because you’re helping me/ I’m gaining insight/ it’s now making sense / that’s fine because I’m getting the help I need with regard to the narcissist that’s actually hurting me “
Many narcissists will behave professionally in a professional setting often owing to facade management and with more sophisticated narcissists they see the bigger picture of operating that way. A certain someone failed in that regard.
Hello HG,
I understand the points you are making.
I realise your work and this blog is very, very helpful. I have learned a lot by being here. Honestly, in some ways it has kept me sane.
As you know, I have commented here for a long time, and I still find it very helpful and interesting to be here.
I take your work seriously.
There have also been times when it has felt like a long and tedious uphill battle just to get my points across. Meanwhile, others can freely air their various opinions and say whatever they want about me.
While I appreciate that other commenters here are quick to defend you against any criticism, the fact is you say you are a self-confessed narcissistic psychopath and you describe what you do.
After all this time, I would hope that other commenters would be more aware that they don’t need to jump in and defend you whenever I say something.
You have made the point and you are allowed to do so and you may continue to do so. Just as you may advance your views, opinions and observations (which are invariably of interest) other people are also allowed to respond if they wish to.
I am pleased you find my work useful.
Hi WN,
I want to clarify that I wasn’t defending Mr. Tudor. He’s a grown man and can defend himself. I was actually defending how and why I see a difference between Mr. Tudor and Vaknin.
To Contagious’ point, no one has accused Mr. Tudor of the things that Vaknin is being accused of. I probably should’ve stated that myself. But I wanted to share that I did feel similar to you. Is Mr. Tudor capable of these things?
Of course I agree that murder & rape is wrong regardless if its personal or professional. Mr. Tudor has never told us a story about raping someone or murdering someone so its not a fair comparison to compare him to Bundy or Manson. I have no proof of that so I don’t even consider it.
I was specifically looking at Mr. Tudor vs Vaknin. Vaknin takes advantage of his clients. He rapes them and tries to make them commit suicide. Whether Mr. Tudor is capable of that is irrelevant. Its our actions, not what we’re capable of, that matter. There have been no accusations made against Mr. Tudor & that’s why I feel no outrage towards him. But fuck yeah I feel outrage towards Vaknin & I hope Mr. Tudor takes him down.
Well, let’s just say I find your work useful in general.
Hi Wisernow:
There is no evidence presented by victims of HG that I have seen. There is narcissistic abuse and there are crimes.
Rape is a crime.
Holding yourself out as a therapist or a doctor is a crime when you are not licensed.
Perhaps Sam like HG educates and helps women that’s not the case with ALL. At least what I have read and heard so far with more coming. There is a criminal profiler and former member of Scotland Yard assisting, among police, attorneys and others.
This is not about Sam’s knowledge on the topic, not for me, but about these 20-30 women from many countries who trusted him and got abused, one says raped, another is reported as trafficked.
If true, I see this as serial sexual abuse across countries….and no different then poor troubled young women being promised financial help to seek their dreams, only to be used or abused, or promised modeling careers, or music careers by men in power who take advantage and abuse them… sexually, mentally and verbally destroying young vulnerable women who thought they would get a better life.
# me too didn’t end it and it never will anymore than racism movements. It’s up to each one of us to take a stand. Especially when shown evidence. There are so many ways to take a stand. This wrong that needs to be righted as just started….
Hi WiserNow:
I hope you don’t think I am simply defending HG in my input on SV and NP. I am just blogging away on the subject of narcissism and recent developments. HG is my top choice in this field. My personal choice. I do believe in Isla’s work as her objective is noble and it is happening in real time plus she is doing one long series which is slow with real testimony and evidence. You don’t just learn, you honestly feel what’s happening almost as if you are stepping into someone’s shoes. It’s helped me understand the subject on a different level… the pace is slow and will be a very long story….Her goal is not to address narcissism in and of itself or by educating to weaponize them…. but to give the victims voices and ultimately social justice for them. Such as jail time.
Also it’s funny you mentioned Ted Bundy and Charles Manson. The more I hear and see of Sams manipulations and tactics, the more of a cult leader Sam seems… shame that Doug is no longer with us… he would have insight….and I had already had a gut feeling from the get-go and now even more so that there is a serial sexual compulsion and obsession issue.
Cult leader: I am the one and only person on this Earth who can help you. I am unique with special knowledge. I know all. Tactics: Find a vulnerable target or a target that has a vulnerability you can exploit, take their money, sleep deprivation, control food, isolate, reward and punish, sexually abuse, lie, and the ultimate goal is complete and utter dependency. And it takes time to control another’s mind. SV does all of this-
Then there is what I call paraphalia – the serial rapist. This compulsion or obsession of sadistic sex ( don’t read further if you don’t want to read anything gross or triggering) rape and the re-enactment of rape, yellow parachutes, writing swasticas on bodies, inserting objects, submissive acts like kissing his feet, trafficking to another. SV has done this. All sexual acts are about power but a sexual sadist gets off on that- Ted Bundy did. Ted said it was the old detective novels that caused him to rape and kill but he felt a compulsion – an obsession- for this degrading sex…
What do all of them have in common? The law catches up with them.
But I agree: a crime is a crime. Harm is harm:)
Best wishes!
Hi Contagious,
Quick question: Who is NP?
Excellent.
What I always find interesting is what is not said versus what is said.
John failed to address the whole reason for this event. Sam’s actions and the victims.
I am noticing new faces on HG blog and his YouTube. I have had comments to my posts recently that again don’t get to the heart of the matter but instead attempt to try to shift attention to others involved in the film including HG and to attack Isla ( and insinuate an adverse result for her efforts.)
Always look closely not just what is being said…. But why is something is not being said:)
Good summary!
I think this is a fantastic synopsis, Isabelle! I agree with everything you say here.
I’ve read your comments and I think you have a lot to offer. I hope you’ll decide to interact a bit more.
Pay for her podcast. She has just started with the 1000 pieces of evidence. We are not in a court of law, there is no showing of Meta data but Isla contends she has it, there is no witness under oath to authenticate it ( yet), but the start of her posting of evidence and my review of it makes me sick.
John & Isabelle,
I watched the Narcissist`s Playbook more than once and took some notes, with a focus on the confrontation scene. The one thing that really struck me, because I witnessed it first in the film, (and not later in the podcast where Isla reveals that her heart was “beating out of her chest”) was how calm they both were during this exchange. It actually quite impressed me.
In response to Isla`s claims that she has documents and photographic evidence, Vaknin`s wife asks for the evidence to be shown. And as the couple are readying to leave the apartment this exchange occurs:
Lidiya (to Isla): “I will show you my pictures with the clients. He didn’t have sexual coerce with them.”
Vaknin (to his wife) “Lidiya, you are very wrong in what you`re saying right now. Don`t participate.”
(I think it`s important to note that neither of them are native english speakers and this comes out in some of the awkward phrasing, and strong accents, of course. For example, above, Lidiya uses `coerce` as a verb.)
In her podcast and on social media, Isla is framing it as Vaknin`s first sentence being an admittance of guilt. But I believe it`s in the second sentence that is the “wrong”, in Vaknin`s view: Lidiya`s participation in engaging Isla`s accusations.
Note: Vaknin himself only directly responds twice to Isla`s accusations throughout the confrontation, where he states:
“I am utterly unaware of these, nor have I been approached…”
“I have not done wrong to anyone as far as I know.”
All other responses of his, in turn, point out that Isla did not keep to their agreement regarding what the interview would be about.
I agree with Isabelle (Isla over prepared) and, for me, it was actually quite amazing that Isla pulled this off, and so calmly. It should be pointed out that she was doing double duty – going about her usual interviewing role (she didn`t bring notes, she had to memorize all her questions and the specific points of evidence she wanted present to Vaknin and she had to keep her composure) and planning to confront Vaknin as the interview played out. I was really impressed. And I, personally, have had to play dumb in order to escape a situation with a potentially physically volatile narcissist – but, I don`t think I would have been able to do what Isla did, with such composure.
“For example, above, Lidiya uses `coerce` as a verb” – that should have read that she used “coerce” as a noun, instead of a verb.
Isla has been preparing for TWO years she says:)
I’ve now listened to Episode 5 of Isla Traquair’s podcast in which her interview of Sam Vaknin takes place.
The interview is interesting because it reveals how Vaknin operates. I think this is more telling and revealing than the content of what he says.
SPOILER ALERT
If you haven’t yet listened to the podcast, you may want to stop reading this comment. I am going to mention how the interview goes, so if you want to listen to the podcast with fresh ears, you may want to stop reading my comment now.
Vaknin gives very long and verbose answers. He dominates the interview and treats Isla Traquair in a patronising way, as though she is an ingenue or a teenage student in one of his classes and she’s there to be lectured by him.
His ‘schtick’ is to be intellectually dominant, the all-knowing authority on narcissism. What he says is the last word and he must not be challenged. Anyone who tries will be devalued and treated with contempt.
If I consider the information he discusses while ignoring his verbose authoritative tone, the thing that becomes apparent is that he is well-read and knows a lot of detail. He refers to specific details about the history of psychology; he mentions well-known researchers and their psychological theories over the past century; and he also talks about neuroscience and the physiological effects of abuse, etc. He knows a lot.
However, Vaknin’s modus operandi, if you like, which is to be a well-read ‘expert’, could also be a weakness. It is possible to poke holes in his ‘knowledge’.
For example, in the interview with Isla Traquair, Vaknin talks about the ‘dead mother’ theory. That is, that a child loses their sense of self when their mother or caregiver is not emotionally engaged or responsive enough. Vaknin says that in the first three years of a child’s life, the mother is all-important while the father’s influence is much less important.
Vaknin says: “… until the age of three, mothers are critical, fathers much less so. Fathers become more relevant, they’re never critical, but they become more relevant after age three when the child acquires social skills, other types of skills, and so on. Fathers are in the skilling business; they teach the child social scripts, sexual scripts, how to behave in society, how to aspire, goal orientation, ‘how to’. We call this semantic memory.”
Vaknin makes statement like this in his signature authoritative way, making it more difficult and problematic to challenge him.
He is not correct though in relation to a father’s role in early childhood development. There are numerous research studies that show a father’s involvement in a child’s life from birth is critical to the child’s emotional, cognitive, and social development. A father who is engaged with their baby’s caregiving and nurturing in a warm and supportive way provides important interactions that have a long-term effect on the child’s emotional regulation and behaviour.
Numerous such studies have shown a two-way effect on fathers and children in relation to anxiety, depressive symptoms, and obsessive-compulsive tendencies on the part of the father, and internalising and externalising problems on the part of the child.
With regard to Vaknin’s knowledge, he is knowledgable, there’s no doubt about that, however, he also displays a kind of all-knowing and rigid bias to what he says.
When it comes to psychology in general and narcissism in particular, there are still many unanswered questions. There are ambiguities and unknowns. All of the ‘facts’ are not yet known and the science is continually evolving.
Sam Vaknin does not acknowledge this. He believes he is the ultimate authority on the subject, which he isn’t.
During the interview, he also says “we” in regard to information about narcissism. He says things like, “We call this semantic memory,” or “We now know that …” He is making it sound like he is one of a group of researchers and experts on the subject. He is acquiring character traits.
Another thing that is apparent in the interview with Isla Traquair is that Vaknin subtly (or not so subtly to my mind) peppers his replies with mentions of sex. For example, he talks about a father’s role in a child’s life as giving ‘sexual scripts’, or he mentions sex in his answers in other ways.
I think this is intentional and also unnecessary. He is dropping these suggestions to introduce sex into the interaction with Isla Traquair, possibly to test her reaction to them. He masks the suggestions within his ‘intellectual’ replies on narcissism, but they stand out. He’s probably getting fuel by mentioning them.
Sam Vaknin was actually my introduction to the subject of narcissism. His books hadn’t been translated into Russian, but translations of some of his articles were available, and at the time I found them very helpful. It was fascinating to hear your analysis of him, HG. It’s a shame he chose not to use his knowledge for good.
The more I hear of this ‘project,’ including Isla Traquair’s podcast about it, the more I think it’s all questionable.
I think Isla Traquair is genuine when she says her aim is to ‘stop’ Vaknin abusing other women. However, I also think she is being used as bait to lure Vaknin into a snare. Not that I care about what happens to Vaknin; I think he fully deserves to be outed. It’s just that this cat and mouse game the filmmakers are playing could backfire on them.
After listening to the first three episodes of Isla Traquair’s podcast, my main thought was that it’s all so sordid – all of it.
The horrible alleged abuse of a young woman by Vaknin over seven years is sickening. If it’s true, he is nothing more than scum and should be in prison for a long time.
The whole project does feel like a hit-piece, though, and the filmmakers are milking it for attention and publicity which adds to the sordidness.
It will be interesting to see if it culminates in a criminal investigation.
On the subject of Sam Vaknin, an Australian documentary about him called ‘I, Psychopath’ was released in 2008. (It’s available in full on YouTube if anyone is interested.)
The 2008 documentary was made by filmmaker Ian Walker. In the film, Walker and his film crew follow Vaknin to a number of different countries while researching and interviewing him and his wife, Lidija Rangelovska, along the way.
Vaknin’s personality is on display in the 2008 film. He regularly subjects Walker to angry, impatient, and belittling rants and tirades. By the end of the film, Walker discusses the harmful effects he has internalised as a result of Vaknin’s control and abuse. The devaluation of Walker by Vaknin is disgusting and it is on film.
Interestingly, in the course of Walker’s long interviews with him, Vaknin discusses his academic credentials and admits his PhD is fake. In his own words, during which he was filmed, Vaknin says:
“The PhD was acquired in a diploma mill. Diploma mill in the United States means a place where you buy your degrees. So it’s a diploma mill, I’m not a real PhD.”
To this, Walker responds: “You’re still a doctor though.”
And Vaknin says: “Technically, I am a PhD. I worked two years, I presented a thesis, the thesis was reviewed by peers, it is in the Library of Congress, you can see. But, between you and me, that’s not the rigorous PhD that people are led to believe when you use the title.”
Straight from the horse’s mouth.
The 2008 documentary provides some interesting insights into Vaknin’s personality and narcissism. It does make him appear to be too boastful to realise that he’s actually digging a hole for himself.
Hello, WN. Interesting…I said to Contagious earlier that I hadn’t bothered to search Vaknin, but your comment jogged my memory. I a quick squint at his YT last night, to see if he’s said much about these allegations. From there, I ended up on this link, without pursuing the original objective:
https://narcissistic-abuse.com/rebuttal
There, I caught sight of this bit:
“I. The sources of the malicious gossip
The rumour that I obtained my degree from a diploma mill is maliciously (and libellously) false. So is the claim that I am not — and have never been — a professor. It is also very old hat. ”
I just clicked off, ‘cos he’s too boring 😀
So on the 2008 doc he claims it was from a diploma mill and on this website he claims that is a false and libellous statement hehehe! Revison of history?
Good find, Mari.
It looks like he thinks nobody will remember what he said himself on film in ‘I, Psychopath’.
Well, this shows he’s a liar. He’s rewriting history because his own admission in the documentary threatens his scholarly reputation.
What’s interesting is the way he uses his usual grandiosely authoritative tone to say that it was a malicious rumour. In the link you included, he smears Wikipedia in general.
It’s hilarious that he says the ‘rumour’ about him getting his PhD from a diploma mill is defamatory and libellous when he actually said it himself! He has no-one to blame but good old Professor Vaknin. That’s actually funny!
Hi Wisernow:
From a legal perspective, I think Sam will not be charged.
First, many of the women not all but most are past the statute of limitations. They go back decades to one in the present. Isla is working on that…. Even Bill Cosby barely got caught due to the statute of limitations in criminal court in the USA and in one State I think it was 10 years that the victim was able to pursue the criminal case.
Second, Sam is smart. He could get a license but he remains a professor and a life coach by legal definition. There is little regulation over life coaches…. Anywhere… whereas if he was a licensed psychologist most countries have regulations where his license could be yanked, penalties imposed and even criminal prosecution pursued. Sam is not. Now I get the real reason behind his disclosures…..
Third: psychological abuse is the main form of abuse even if it is to direct the victim to suicide. There are emails where Sam admits to rape and allegations of rape BUT in a “ consensual” relationship, many prosecutors won’t take the case. Date rapes are often not pursued unless evidence of violence. Emails can be explained away. And if the rape victim failed to make a police report at the time… very difficult to get a prosecutor on board. Some countries consider psychological abuse a crime. The UK does with a 5 year prison sentence. How many of these cases are prosecuted however? Macedonia doesn’t have a crime for psychological abuse.
In the USA, a civil suit would bury him and a class action no doubt….as there would be breach of fiduciary duties, intentional infliction of emotional distress etc… In civil law, there are some ways around the statute… the Catholic Church is still paying out claims to adults of alleged childhood abuse. It’s complicated but in the USA there are some ways of extending a statute. If in the USA, Sam would probably settle with a confidentiality clause. No idea what Macedonia law is. And no USA victims that I know of.
I think of Russell Brand. A police report was made and timely sexual assault cases were brought and in the UK.
I think of Andrew Tate but he was on interpols watch list for human trafficking and multiple countries were after him. Timely and a complex system.
Sadly, Sam will skate… for now in the criminal justice system I think. That’s my prediction. Unlike Diddy or Cosby or Epstein, no trial lawyers in Macedonia like the USA taking on the victim cases . Right now, Sam is ignoring the allegations and posting on his YouTube like crazy. I think he is responding online himself and or through others to manage his reputation… covertly… claiming it’s all lies, it’s Grannon, he is innocent. And I think he attacks HG in a not so subtle way. Does he do an online video without calling “ so called empaths” as idiots, narcs, victims of a narc, psychopaths etc… make references to con men and those without degrees in psychology ( of course he skips licenses). My guess is HG has read every book Sam has.
Anyway…. One can hope it sheds light on Sam and that Isla has managed to dent his pool of targets from engaging but … sigh… I doubt it will end.
As for Vicente, I said it before, I will say it again. He was in a cult for a LONG time. He did a film to bring it down. Of course that was his aim in this one. Right from the start. Not much to learn about narcissism in it or in any of his videos. Even his neuroscience has little to say that is not known but maybe… maybe helpful to beginners. The misinformation bugs me. But hey… maybe they will find our glorious narrator and get educated!
I have read nothing of Vaknin´s work. I have no need. I explain narcissism and psychopathy from my perspective, experience and observations, not using someone´s else’s prolix work.
Dear HG:
Of course. My point was you are EDUCATED. You went to Oxford. You are academic. While you take a different approach, it is still an educated man speaking.
There are others. Let’s just say as to one, and I like him, he is a narc and he has a grasp on his condition and the subject but the education was high school and he worked in retail. He is different – not invalid but different.
I see an Oxford degree as important even if not in psychology and I know you know many lead psychologists and have read or are familiar with many. You don’t cite them, you rely on your knowledge and experience but…. and again ….you are a highly educated man. An Oxford grad!
That was my point.
Sam holds himself out as this great educated man. Well I don’t know where he went to school but I know where you went.
I had to look up the meaning of prolix, HG. It sums up ‘you know who’ very well.
It’s always a learning experience here on the blog.
Thank you for creating and maintaining this space. It really helps to comment here, share our thoughts, and read the thoughts and ideas of others.
You are welcome.
It’s probably a load of old prolix anyway 🙂
Your work is so well-categorized and clear for our understanding. Thank you
Regarding SV, he claims Isla Traquair presented footage from a role play as if it was IRL consulting. He is now selling footage of a cold therapy seminar, including role play, for €500. What do you think of this tactic?
You are welcome, I am pleased you find it useful.
He has trotted this “defence” out a number of times, claiming that footage of him having a tantrum was “role playing”. I understand that he does undertake role playing with some of the individuals that consult with him, although I doubt that the individual consented to be abused in the manner that has been alleged. I also doubt that SV has had the foresight to secure appropriate disclaimers. I think in his mind, when certain abuse has occurred, he regards it as part of the role playing that he engages in as part of his consultations and therefore he offers what he believes to be a legitimate excuse “I did not abuse her, it was role playing.” I doubt that an objective bystander would agree. I also think he then uses the “role play” excuse more widely as a catch all when he is accused of having a temper tantrum or behaving poorly towards someone in a seminar. It is a more extreme version of “I was just joking” that Mid Range narcissists use.
With regard to charging for the footage, on the basis that he holds the rights to the footage he can do as he wishes. I would seriously question the rationale of someone paying that amount for a viewing of a therapy which logically makes no sense.
Hi Contagious,
It was interesting to read your professional legal opinion. Thanks for sharing that.
Thank you for that:)
Hi again Contagious,
I am sorry to say I have taken the time to watch (well, I was multi-tasking , so it’s more to say that I listened to it) I, Psychopath.
It’s so irritating to watch and listen to Vaknin (although I was curious to see his wife, as her face is blurred out in The Narcissist’s Playbook.)
“…Sam is smart.”
I just don’t know…
The more I see of him the more I am not so sure. He either has a limit to his intelligence or his hubris keeps getting the better of him.
I did catch, towards the end of I, Psychopath, the scene where the filmmaker gets Vaknin being verbally abusive, towards the filmmaker himself, on camera (without Vaknin’s knowledge) and with witnesses in the background.
Obviously, he can spew psychological theory, dropping names from the field, quoting their research and he seems to know the history of psychology – but, how does someone so *uber* smart get drawn in repeatedly to situations, in front of a camera, where his poor behaviour is put on record? I know he likely believes he is above the law – but, he does not seem to be very careful at all.
It’s our friend the law of collateral consequences and his failure to have due regard to them is instructive.
Hi 1WC & Contagious,
Vaknin’s behaviors are very confusing to me. They don’t seem like behaviors of an aware narcissist. His arrogance makes him careless. Are aware narcissists that careless?
Mr. Tudor,
Will you be analyzing Vaknin at all? Is that going to be something you might possibly do with Isla?
I’m not going to do a standalone analysis, I’ve better things to do.
I may analyse some of his behaviour in conjunction with Isla Traquair. I’m currently reviewing material to determine if there’s anything to add beyond what has been stated already.
Mr. Tudor,
I know you’re a very busy man, and I appreciate everything you do for us.
I might’ve missed something. I’m just curious why Vaknin, a supposed aware narcissist, tells on himself. It seems very careless to me. If you could answer why he may do that, I would be most appreciative.
He is not as aware as one first thought, is the short answer. The clear collateral consequences he suffers points to multiple blind spots.
Mr. Tudor says, “He is not as aware as one first thought, is the short answer. ”
Your short answer is incredibly informative & cleared up some things for me.
Thank you, Mr. Tudor.
Hi Contagious,
Thank you for your comprehensive reply. The information you have outlined from a legal perspective is helpful.
From what you’ve said, it sounds like a civil suit or class action, if taken in the relevant or appropriate jurisdiction, would be the most say, ‘fruitful’ way to legally pursue Vaknin.
I wonder if coercive control laws would be relevant in relation to Vaknin’s alleged manipulation and abuse of his so-called ‘clients’? He publicly describes, in great detail, how he treats his female ‘victims’ so there is evidence to support his behaviour. He doesn’t keep it a secret.
This would depend on whether there are coercive control laws in the country or countries where the alleged abuse happened.
I’m not a legal expert by any stretch of the imagination, but it sounds to me like the consent of the victim would be under question in the course of Sam’s so-called ‘therapy’ (I’m literally grimacing and shaking my head as I type that word because the alleged abuse is full-blown assault, rape, and psychological torture; it’s definitely not ‘therapy’).
Hi Wiser Now:
Coercive control is a form of psychological abuse, Section 76 in UK prosecutes it, Ireland has laws on it and the Netherlands is working on it. All I could find as not the USA and I am only licensed in the USA: California and Nevada.
But again…. My legal opinion stands. Unless someone more recent goes to police and claims sexual assault … I don’t see any criminal prosecution.
His wife in I Psychopath says Sam is very verbally abusive but not physically. Sam took a neuroscience exam in Germany where the neuroscientist said he had no flip switch to controlling his emotions. All Clister B are aware of their actions at the time. They can choose. They know right from wrong. How they frame it later is another story.
Sorry folks but this hit piece in my legal opinion will pass. Sam ‘s victims are to the best of my knowledge not in countries that prosecute his horrific behavior. And if the woman was raped, she needed to go to police and get medical proof and file within the statute of limitations per country.. All Western societies recognize in law rape as a crime.
I am not aware of any police filings…..
I’m think Sam will skate…. At least for now in this life…..
Just my limited legal opinion as I am not a Macedonian attorney.
But yeah, the trial attorneys would scour him if here and the victims were here in civil court.
The United Kingdom has no statute of limitations on a serious crime such as rape.
Wow HG! That’s wonderful! The UK tends to be progressive on laws. Thank you for that! I don’t think Sam’s victims are from the UK… but I don’t know.
Only saw evidence I have seen so far is from the ones I read and saw as I paid to join Isla’s podcast and see the evidence. Plus I really like her! Sam refers to himself as a medical doctor in a text- now that could cause him legal problems… but again no idea what Macedonia laws are on the books and practice.
There are laws that are on the books and then there is the actual practice in enforcing the law. No idea but no doubt that there is a reason he moved there and doesn’t leave beyond his abject fear of heights ( now that doesn’t sound like a psychopath… extreme anxiety over heights…. He peed in a cup during his interview with Isla versus going up the stairs…. Gross!)
I change my mind. Isla will be sharing more evidence over time and she said she will be discussing legal avenues. Perhaps she has proper legal advice as I come from the USA.
Perhaps D-Day is coming.
Contagious,
“He peed in a cup during his interview with Isla versus going up the stairs…. Gross!”
That was so utterly cringey!! Ewww!
I just hope it was a disposable cup ☕
The apartment with the upstairs toilet above a military assault course-style spiral staircase sounds fun … 😳
Apparently he sat down to urinate as well.
Breaking news!
I got a message from Isla today. She is going to be revealing all the evidence against Sam and will be discussing “ legal avenues.” This lady is my hero!!!!!!!!!!! Hold onto your hats! I am thrilled that she is seeking the ultimate: real justice!
Also Sam has many accounts per Isla and it is believed he uses them to post on social media.
Her pantheon account is worth the monthly to me. She shares the evidence there. I like seeing the evidence. What I have seen so far is disgusting. Absolutely disgusting. I love brave strong women who fight for social justice! She has become one of my hero’s. I have a trial that will take all my time but it looks like this subject is just starting…….
Wow, Contagious.
Sounds like Isla is on a mission. That’s fantastic.
While listening to Isla’s podcast, I thought for a second that Richard Grannon’s fingerprints could be all over this and that it was a stitch-up.
Now I’m thinking if Isla has a lot of solid evidence, then there’s more substance to it.
It sounds like Isla knows what she’s talking about too. She has experience with investigations.
Grabbing will be taking advantage of this to attack Vaknin and make himself look like the hero.
Hi Contagious,
I am following Isla Traquair on Patreon as well.
Although, it’s a chore to see/hear more from Vaknin himself – I am glued to this case and want to witness how it pans out. Good for Isla for pursuing this.
I wanted to add…. Many of my clients and again I am licensed only in CA and NV worry about their assets in a lawsuit and some are concerned about criminal prosecution. More got damaged in a civil/ criminal transaction and worry if they sue… will there be a recovery??? People hide assets for many reasons especially criminals Here’s the deal: if you are in a prosecutors grip…. The plea deals are offered, ie you skip jail time or get less jail time if you PAY the victims. The prosecutor doesn’t care about the source or even if you can. So, if you have offshore accounts, properties in other people’s names or trusts even irrevocable for your children…100 LLCs, bank accounts with your funds in other people’s names, large loans from family or close friends that haven’t been paid, etc… etc… they don’t care. Somehow the most difficult criminal defendants… voila! Find the money to make the deal. It’s better than a civil case unless there is enough insurance. There are clever civil defendants who think they are judgment proof. Who use BK even to remain rich going from ABC Inc to AB Inc post BK. But there are ways around this for skilled attorneys. The closest I saw to judgment proof was a rich developer who had about 100 corporations and all his money in a UAE annuity. Same with the Chinese. You need the governments permission to sue and you cannot collect in general in China. Of course this means you must trust the UAE or China with your money… uhmmmmm. So if it’s a crime, and you lost work, suffered medical bills or psychologist bills etc… it’s actually a good idea to make a police report and get the prosecution on your side:) not saying civil should be ignored but no one is judgment proof. Again my legal perspective is limited to where I practice and only my opinion. But it MIGHT be relevant to other jurisdictions, I don’t know.
Let Justice rule!
Hi Contagious,
“Let Justice rule.”
From the comments under this post about the law and legal processes, it makes me sceptical about your statement here.
When I think about legal outcomes following certain recent crimes, and the public and media fallout for the victims of those crimes, it makes me think that the ‘law’ has a very long way to go to catch up to the reality of these kinds of situations.
I think the ‘law’ and law enforcement is very limited and progressive legal changes made to address crimes like coercive control, or narcissistic abuse in general, move at a glacially slow pace.
Wisernow:
Thank you for the tip! Will watch:)
You’re welcome, Contagious.
Hello HG:
Very tired as in trial this week and next but I keep getting messages from this “ Gronzo” catfish. He says Sam is an “aware narcissist” who would essentially would have been too smart to have any culpability whereas all “the other narcs” attached to the film are “unaware who have real victims”. He says he “couldn’t get past the first episode. “ And that I shouldn’t listen not listen as Isla is a train wreck waiting to happen.” This is my last message on the subject as I am no one’s flying monkey bitch or messenger. I won’t respond to the catfish again. But… it’s on your blog. And I suspect covert tactics. End of subject as the way to end it is to ignore which I shall do now but my final thumbs up in case someone is on cyber attack patrol. Again this fish was responding to many commenters on YOUR blog.
Also Wisernow:
I don’t know Grannon. Watched one clip where he attacked “ empaths.” I replied what’s wrong with having empathy for others?” That ended it and I know nothing about the breakup with Sam.
BUT and this is my opinion, Richard Grannon brought the victims to Isla. He had been in communication with them for 5 years. He introduced them to her.
I don’t care about the politics, the illnesses behind it, the motives. I want to see all the evidence but even in the bit I have seen. I want justice for them. And as is Islas goal to see no one else is s harmed by being a “ patient” of Sam’s. This isn’t coaching when someone says they are a therapist and/or medical doctor who “ treats a 20 year old in a vulnerable state” and has sex with and abuses …including rape. I haven’t seen any HARD evidence yet of “rape” but I have seen enough overall to be angry. Very angry. If you want to see the evidence, you must pay about 7.00 a month on Patreon. To me, it’s with a cup of coffee a month…
Wisernow!
Thank you! Watched it and a psychologist did a test (wonder if it was Dr. Hares) and the results were that he wasn’t a psychopath! He scored high on schizoid and paranoid but not a psychopath!
The director said he MIGHT be lying about it.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Very interesting documentary and you are right about what you said!
Thank you. I thought the documentary was interesting too.
When Sam Vaknin was taking the tests, which were questionnaires, it was unclear how truthful he was being about his answers.
As you mentioned, Contagious, he is smart and he’d be capable of answering the questionnaires falsely in order to skew the results, unless the test was designed in a way to minimise this happening.
Interesting. Dr. Hares test is supposed to be able to catch liars. I took it as did my ex. I thought it was obvious. Some of the questions are ridiculous.
Ted Bundy tested 95% on Dr Hares test.
Brain testing would be better, I think. He did some brain test that showed he had difficulty regulating emotion but not the type where they would look at grey matter, the Amygala- MRI and CT. I ordered a book on recent DNA/gene/genome research too.
But clearly Sam wanted to be found a psychopath. WEIRD!
Hi again Contagious,
The first questionnaire Sam Vaknin was given to answer in ‘I, Psychopath’ is called the ‘Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory (PD version)’.
After doing a quick Google search, I found that this test is called ‘MMPI-2’ or ‘Scale 4: Psychopathic Deviate’ (which is a misleading name for it, by the way).
The MMPI was originally developed in the late 1930s and was first published in 1943. Back then, its purpose was to diagnose mental and personality ‘disorders’ in the sense that the so-called ‘disorders’ were facets of an individual’s personality that were considered different from existing ‘social norms’.
The thing that’s interesting is that back then, so-called ‘disorders’ were not considered to be full-blown pathological all-pervasive ‘disorders’ as they are now.
The DSM (Diagnostic & Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders) was first published in 1952. Its purpose was to help clinicians in the field to reach a diagnosis of a personality or mental condition.
The timing of when the two ‘tools’ of diagnosis were first developed, and the original purpose of each, is important.
Since the DSM has been in operation, personality and mental ‘disorders’ have morphed in general and collective attitudes into something more like all-encompassing ‘labels’. Once a label is attached to an individual, it is taken to be a kind of holistic ‘explanation’ of what is ‘wrong’ with the person.
I think this kind of belief system that the DSM has created and reinforced over the decades since it was introduced is misleading. An absolute reliance on ‘labels’ is, I believe, limited and restrictive. It also spills over into other areas of life, so that things like employment, insurance, other diagnoses, and the ‘confirmation bias’ of other healthcare providers is affected.
I think it’s both interesting and important to consider something Organisational Psychologist Belinda Board said in ‘I, Psychopath’, that is:
“Personality disorders are not these discrete ‘illnesses’ if you will, in inverted commas; discrete diseases using that medical model where you either have it or you don’t. Actually, these perhaps are just extensions of normal characteristics that each of us have, just in varying degrees.”
If you go back to the development and purpose of the MMPI as a questionnaire, it wasn’t meant to isolate ‘psychopaths’ from others who completed the test. Rather, it was meant to show the degrees of similarity or difference that various facets of personality had with the standard social norms at the time the test was taken.
lol My husband and I took the MMPI too. We had a two year custody battle. Now that test was LONG. They gave us both tests and did interviews and surprise visits and FBI checks. 2 years. $10,000 paid for it. My ex said I had psychosis ( I saw the drugs, cash and guns like people see flying pigs), and I said he was a criminal and that I was rightly concerned as his children from a prior marriage were not well: one in Juvie for arson, the other in a mental health center for bipolar. I got 80% custody. She said I was loving and nurturing but a mother bear. Not sure where mother bear fits into the DSM lol. He was ASPD but as I wrote she felt he was needed and she was right in the end. He did well as a father.
The Dr Hare test was shorter and weird. P… something. I don’t recall them asking “ when you were little did you torture animals?” But I recall thinking WTF at some of the questions on it…..
A lot is genes too… I firmly believe some psychopaths are born that way. An environment can make it worse… but there is less evidence that narcs are simply born that way. HG is right.
But both know right from wrong. There is a choice. And they both should be held accountable in my opinion.
After what I have seen so far… and there are allegedly 1000s of documents including videos and photos, Sam must pay. I don’t know the laws in Macedonia and if any of the victims are in other countries…. But Isla has looked into it:)
Ahhh Sam did score 18 out of 24 on Dr Hares test. Yup he is one. The other psychologist test missed it. I trust Hare.
I’d argue in the other direction Contagious. I think he wants to be a psychopath, was familiar with Hare’s test and how to interpret it, so answered in favour of scoring as a psychopath. The other test he would be less familiar with so it would be more difficult for him to fix a result of psychopath.
I agree with that observation TS. His narcissism would direct him to do this. It is similar to how unaware narcissists of the Mid Range persuasion would give answers that would accord with being seen as a kind person/an empathic/a compassionate individual.
Thank you for the additional explanation HG.
Hello HG:
My deepest and sincere thanks. Without your video I would never known about Mohammad. I saw your video on YT on the Silent Empath and it brought me to tears. Oddly I don’t cry a lot over pain but I cry at beauty especially when in a church. This man is my hero…. To think such beauty exists on planet Earth… I feel honored to share a planet with him. I know it’s crazy but I almost wish your entire blog was geared towards Empaths with narcissists being less present as this story fills my heart and soul. It reminds me of how we should be. It literally leaves me awestruck. What’s interesting is he has the almost the same classes and cadres as me with the Contagian, small percent super, matyr, geyser but he has savior and I have carrier. I mean I would be lucky to be able to touch the hem of his jacket compared to him. Like my Saint like Aunts, I feel almost embarrassed to be me when this man exists. Perhaps it’s the Savior. Makes sense there. But it’s weird to be so closely classed with classes and cadres and yet feel so far down the chain to their character and achievements. Why is that? Is it that our emotional make up is the same way but some of us are simply not as successful? This man inspires me to do more, to be more humble, to remember always what really matters and how one person can make a difference. Again thank you.
By the way I can’t bake. Unlike the others here, It would be an insult to give you something I made in both appearance and taste. But as I recall you like Creed and pretty blue soap:) Since you can’t receive it, my gratitude to you for stories such as this and the Dolly tribute too whose death made the entire world a little less shiny…. Loved your tribute… I will just keep buying everything you sell. Look forward to your book on psychopathy and manipulation 2.
Thanks… sincerely….
Hi Truthseeker,
I agree with you that he likely lied on the test. The link is to an online, likely abbreviated psychopathy test on Psychology Today.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/tests/personality/psychopathy-test
I don’t know if Hare’s Assessment is lengthier or has a validity scale or other ways to detect deception. I think a sufficiently intelligent person who wants a specific result is easily able to get it, especially if they know a little about it.
Overall most psychological tests are only as good as participants are honest and self aware. And most people are worse at detecting lies than they think they are. Mr. Tudor has a video where he describes lying to a friend about finishing first in a race, and the way he detailed the lie was fascinating. I remember thinking Mr. Tudor sounded satisfied with his masterly deception as HR outlined why it was a good lie in the video.
Hi Dani,
It’s good to see you back commenting again 🙂
Thank you for the link. Love me a personality test! I suspect as you said, the psychopathy checklist is more involved and weighted. I agree with you, honest people want to know their score, they don’t try to influence a bespoke outcome, whereas someone who understands the test and wants to manipulate it could do so.
I remember the HG recollection you are referring to. I read an article a while ago about a study psychologists conducted into lying. People used to think that lots of detail meant that a person was being truthful. Apparently it’s the other way around. Truthful people tend to use less detail. I suppose it also depends on where the detail lies. I know that low functioning psychopaths when interviewed about a crime often spend unnecessary amounts of time giving detail about what they did that morning, what they had for breakfast, what time the postman came round and so on, as much or more detail than they put into their account of the crime itself. This might be what they meant in the study in terms of excessive details.
In HG’s example, my impression was that it was the certainty that caused the lie to be accepted. If HG says something with a steadfast certainty and confidence, (no fear) I would imagine it would be received as truth.
Hi Truthseeker,
I think I have some questions in moderation. I have been trying to wait as I really am interested in answers to them.
I’m sure you’re right that the confidence helps the lies be accepted. I also would be hesitant to enter a serious argument with Mr. Tudor (on the blog and even more so in person if I knew it was him). It just seems like a bad idea. *Skips about Tudor Tower in sapphire blue dress* 🎶 Positive fuel, positive fuel… don’t be a fool by giving challenge fuel. He’ll have fun, but you’ll cry if you fail to comply 🎶
Hey Dani,
I’m looking forward to seeing your questions too. It has been a while!
I’m not so sure. I don’t think HG has any issue with people having a different opinion on a subject, so long as they can back that opinion up logically, or have at least thought it through. It would be stimulation, challenge fuel too as you said. Ultimately, HG would get control irrespective, so I think he would likely be more interested in the stimulation.
In real life, different thing. I suppose it would depend on how the person was painted and what the needs / objectives were at any given time.
Anyway, how come you get to swoosh around in the fancy blue dress?! I only ever get the black dress with the apron and feather duster. Could you just give me a hand moving this sheela na gig?
Xx
Hi Dani! Excellent point and info!!!!
Hey Truthseeker,
I know. One can never be certain of what Mr. Tudor wants. I never worry about him having control over me…
I got sapphire blue and swishy…because I asked to wear his favorite color…and I am allowed to serve him afternoon tea and an occasional homemade scone (for tea). *gives Mr. Tudor Heart Eyes* I even got to bring him a bottle of Deutz once.
Mr. Tudor, may TS wear sapphire blue, please? Truthseeker sounded a little spicy about her uniform.
Hi Dani,
That cracked me up no end!
Jam first, then the clotted cream 😉
Xx
I agree. The alternative is the mark of a philistine.
(Debbie from Devon just unsubscribed.)
I will not forget, TS…jam then clotted cream…I really would enjoy baking fresh scones for HG. I hope he would allow me to do so if he ever lets us pay to be in the presence of his magnificent self and I can afford it.
You can bake and send me scones without being in my presence. I’ve received cookies and cakes from generous Tudorites who baked them for me and jolly tasty they were too. I’ve also received jam and artwork too, many of my followers are wielding particular talents.
Dani,
“I really would enjoy baking scones for HG.”
My scones always end up as rock cakes. Xx
I’ll stick with your inquisitive mind and helpful nature TS over your baking ability!
Damn you’re good HG!
A phrase I have often heard and read.
Scones and cookies and jam, oh my! My main concern was timely delivery as you travel so frequently. You made my day, sir!
Dear Mr Tudor,
Was it jam from TOW? 🤣
Good point TS! It’s hard from what I have read to manipulate the test but Dr. Hare himself admitted that his test was not absolute. From what I understand to make that determination, you must look at school records, whether they went to prison or criminal history and interviews etc….
*Correction: ‘I, Psychopath’ was completed and first released in 2009 (and not 2008 as I mentioned here).
Wisernow:
Great analysis. I have always questioned Sam and others position on 0-3. But thank you for your input on a father’s role. I agree with you about the fathers.
And the traditional “ blame the mother” approach excludes genetics too, the fact the brain is developing, peers, other members in a child’s life such as extended family, teachers, etc….
Thanks
You’re welcome, Contagious.