Questioning Me
Do feel free to ask me anything you like. I am here for you to dip into my mind and for you to benefit from learning how I view the world. No question is off limits and if you want to establish a dialogue with me, then so much the better. You will be helping me so I can show the treatment team that I am interacting with people in this setting. You can ask me why I do certain things, what am I thinking, what my favourite food is, whatever you like. This is your chance to extract as much knowledge and information from me as you possibly can. If you want to just make a statement, go ahead. Fill your boots. I don’t know you so I won’t fly into a rage (this does happen when people I know question me but that is because they have an agenda – you don’t because we don’t know one another). I look forward to hearing from you.
12,994 thoughts on “Questioning Me”
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HG I recently watched ‘appropriate adult’ not sure if you’ve seen it. Itv player. It was very good, a two part drama series about the Fred and rosemary west murders from the perspective of the appropriate adult who was there to support Fred during his interviews. She had never met him before and essentially ended up falling for him through his manipulation a despite knowing what he has done. Pre N I would never have understood that but it was very interesting.
Anyway my question was, both Fred and rose both appear to be high on the N / P scale. Rose is made out to some degree to be more evil than Fred. Also Fred remained loyal to Rose by not naming her in the murders well until he found out she had cheated on him.
So as a P why would he have remained loyal to her taking the blame for the murders ?
Can two N / Ps be together like this successfully ?
Do you think rose was an N ? Fred has already murdered two victims before he met her.
Or was she completely under his control ?
I know you’re the man with the answers ! We all look up to you 🙂
Hello Alexis, no I have not seen the programme.
I suspect that Fred was the N. He directed matters and had Rose under his spell. I recall that he had wired the house so he could hear her having sex with other men at the house which he instructed her to do. He was evidently hugely controlling, as you would expect and no doubt triangulated Rose with the victims so that is why she was compelled to act with him in the torture and murder of the victims. Fred no doubt found his fuel levels so low when he was incarcerated and engulfed by shame (because his fuel levels were so low) that he committed suicide. There was something clearly wrong with Rose but it appears to me form what I have read (if reported accurately) that she was heavily influenced by him.
Thanks HG. That’s really helpful. You can return to your greater status now 😉 I’ll endorse that.
Rascal.
💋
I dont get it.. The question is if a narcissist and a psychopath can be together in love??
I think HG answered the question that perhaps rose was not an N and but that she did have something very wrong with her though. But thanks for pointing that out, I’d also be interested as to whether that is possible ? I know vaknin says it is, but they must be a different type of N / P eg one must be cerebral and the other somatic. I haven’t looked at any of his work for a long time now though, as HG is my favourite, so do correct me if I’ve mis-remembered that. Hmmm not in a gas lighting kind of way though hahah
Do you think all the dominant men in the bdsm community are narcissists? What are your thoughts on submissives or what you might refer to as volunteers?
No I don’t. As for those who are submissive, often the dynamic is not just purely sexual but it is about giving up control and responsibility. This would appeal to Ns with strong victim tendencies and those who like to play the victim card, but not all those who adopt the role of a submissive could be regarded as narcissists and not all narcissists like to be the submissive.
That is your assumption, HG. Get a clue, Know a girls Daddy issues from the girls POV.
Empaths fury right there.
I have found you! OhSaintFromHeaven#
I am officially another fan girl. For real. Not sarcastic.
My question: am I one of you? Or am I too strong to break?
I am a shattered child. HG. You are growing me up real fast,
HG, I’m curious if your doctors have administered an IQ test and if so, results?
Hello Narcaddict, no they have not done so. They know they are dealing with someone intelligent who won’t behave like some goggle-eyed epsilon semi-moron and I understand they had access (thanks to my sister) to a test I took a little while ago.
HG, I have a bit of a dilemma. And you’re the man !!
A very very dear friend of mine had been caught up with a P on a business front, which is now taking a legal challenge. The P is dumb, very dumb but will go the whole hog but is also incredibly rich. It’s a bit of a grey area, though my friend had not done anything wrong and has kuch evidence to support his case but whilst financially stable, is not able to throw money at it. The P is making completely false accusations for which there is no evidence.
I’d hugely appreciate your advise on this one.
Alexis
What is the nature of the claim against your friend? What is the relief that is being claimed against your friend? Has your friend sought legal advice? If he is able to demonstrate a very strong defence then he is likely able to obtain funding methods to assist his defence without utilising his own financial resources. Can you put a bit more flesh on the matter please?
Thanks HG for your lovely response. You’re not as mean as people say 😉
Well it may well have all been sorted now as he sent further emails which only incriminate himself. He was even more stupid than we suspected. Though I feel this is not the end of it at all as he is angry, in fact furious at not being able to control my friend and make him do what he wants. But there is no basis or grounds to and he is just running round making all sorts of accusations which are completely preposterous. Thank you again though.
You are welcome. I’m not mean, I am a positive delight as you well know.
HG, you have literally no idea how happy you’re making me today. I’m using everything you’ve ever taught me today on a professional / legal level as well as on a personal level. Saying he right thing at the right time and saying nothing if that is more fitting.
I wish I could jump through the internet right now and give you a big kiss !!
I have visions of the Ns I’m dealing with (unrelated) frantically pressing all the buttons they usually press to get their desired response and it’s all malfunctioning.
HG – is this fuel ?
It is and thank you very much. I am pleased to see you have put your studies to such effective use grasshopper.
HG, I have another question for you. When you d&d you bad mouth your fuel supply. So when you perform he grand Hoover (I’m currently experiencing a second one), do you start telling people you made a mistake and you were wrong about that person or do you continue to bad mouth them.
Good question Alexis. Yes we will smear you when we discard you. We will also smear you if you escape and our initial grand hoover fails. When we make a subsequent attempt to hoover, irrespective of whether we discarded or you escaped then yes, there is the issue of all of the lies we told about you still hanging in the air. Of course this is easily handled. If I told everybody that you were abusive, I would announce that you have seen the error of your ways and you are going to seek help and given that I am such a decent person I want to help you become the good person that I know you can be. If I told everybody that you were a shopaholic, I would announce that you have seen the error of your ways and you are going to seek help and given that I am such a decent person I want to help you become the good person that I know you can be, that you have cut up your credit cards or I out of the goodness of my heart have footed your debts. If I told everybody that you were a drug habit, I would announce that you have seen the error of your ways and you are going to seek help and given that I am such a decent person I want to help you become the good person that I know you can be, that you addiction arose from childhood problems and you need support. I would ensure that my dedicated coterie and lieutenants would do the decent thing and accept what I have said and welcome you back into the fold with open arms. All of this would be done without any hint of guilt or embarrassment.
Thanks so much for this answer HG. This is incredibly helpful to know. That said, I pretty much conduct myself in the same manner whether he is being nice to me / about me or otherwise. Therefore I’m constant despite what he may or may not be saying about me. But this may well prove to be useful ammunition so thank you again
I have another question HG.
If you receive an accolade or some form of positive comment from a fellow MN. Perhaps someone in your circle you know to be one of your kind but you don’t really like them – they’re playing the same game as you.
How does that make you feel inside ? Do you still feel some kind of low grade fuel as you would from an empath or does it just make you feel suspicious of them ? Do you hate them for it as it shows them in a good light to others even though it too shows you in a good light ?
Tell me everything 🙂
First of all, one would have to consider whether such an accolade would be forthcoming in the first place. Even if it did, it is likely to come with some kind of barbed comment attached and will be a back-handed compliment. If a positive accolade comes from one of my kind,I know it for what it is and as you identify it is a remark designed to make themselves good at that is foremost in their mind as opposed to making me look good. I know that the compliment is just a comment, there will be no real emotion attached to it because the person delivering it will be devoid of the emotion that would normally be associated with such a compliment. Of course, the key for me is to not react to it because if I showed annoyance, anger or hatred they would get fuel from me and that would never do.
My mother repeatedly engages in this kind of behaviour – the maintenance of the façade whilst delivering a shallow compliment or barbed back-handed praise. I avoid giving her the opportunity to do so.
This is quite the golden nugget of advice!! Your comment of “I know that the compliment is just a comment, there will be no real emotion attached to it because the person delivering it will be devoid of the emotion that would normally be associated with such a compliment. Of course, the key for me is to not react to it…”
For so long, for myself and probably many of us here, it’s been a process of reconditioning and learning to become desensitized to the insults, the silence treatments, the hot and cold switch and basically all the negative behavior. However, whenever JN would reappear and engage being friendly and complimentary, I would associate an emotion of him caring to the positive behavior thus causing defenses to come down and hope to pour in again. It really is a process of numbing down and becoming emotionless towards any of their remarks.
That is so hard for someone who spills forward with emotion! lol
Thank you Clarece, you’ve grasped it.
HG, I really want to know how it makes you feel (perhaps you haven’t been in this situation before) when you have a primary fuel supply, you’re fed up of them and putting them through D&D because you think you have a new one lined up. You discard but it doesn’t work out with your new supply. And you have no choice but to keep going back and keep going back to the previous primary fuel, even though you’re fed up with them and the don’t fully sustain you any longer. How does that make you feel, or if it hasn’t happened to you, then how do you perceive it would make you feel ?
The preparatory work engaged in and the force of the lovebombing has meant that the new primary source always does work out. There are many times where two or three new prospects are being harvested as the devaluation of the predecessor takes place. If you liken it to me having three apples to choose from rather than just one, I stand a better chance of getting a delicious, crunchy apple from a choice of three than just from a choice of one.
If the new source was not as effective as I anticipated then it would be necessary to hoover the predecessor (perhaps sooner than anticipated) and also it may be necessary to draw on the supplementary sources whilst a new effective primary source is located. It would make me feel restless but so long as I could hoover and draw on supplementary sources I would be fine whilst I find a new primary source. The ineffective primary source would be abandoned.
As I see, thanks HG
I have so many questions at the moment HG ! And your answers are always wonderfully received !!
There seem to be lots of comments out there that suggest many Ns are handsome / beautiful !
Why do you think this is ?
Is it because they’ve inherited these qualities and Ns chose beautiful partners and hence produce beautiful children and so it contributes ?
Or is it that beautiful people are told this continually which enhances the development of their arrogant nature ?
Or is it that there are equal distributions of handsome and not so handsome Ns as per the normal population but we notice those who are beautiful more so as we are supriaed that someone who looks so beautiful can be so cruel or because beauty only adds to their ability to ‘get away with it’ a little more ?
I’m drying out the popcorn, awaiting your response 🙂
Why are Ns handsome and beautiful? Some are born with good looks, others work hard to acquire them in terms of fitness and grooming because the N, especially the somatic of course, wishes to look magnificent. Having a mind set that you are handsome breeds confidence and confidence is an attractive trait. Most Ns are male. Those male Ns are often achievers and therefore wealth and status will attract the trophy wife. A handsome N is likely to attract a beautiful partner. A successful N is likely to attract a beautiful partner. A wealthy N is likely to attract a beautiful partner. As you point out this increases the chances of having physically attractive offspring alongside the higher risk they will be made into an N by their N parent.
Those that are beautiful who are acquiesced to and complimented a lot will have narcissistic traits (entitlement, grandiosity etc) but may not become an N.
I have no empirical evidence for this and I daresay the observation in your penultimate paragraph has some force as well. The Beautiful and the Barbaric you might say.
Hey H.G.! This is leaning a bit away from the beautiful Narc talk, but going in the direction of attraction. In your book “Sex and the Narcissist” you basically describe sex as getting to masturbate with a warm body. Sure there’s some nice physical sensations but it is a device used to connect with us and if you could do that playing Chess, that would do too.
My question is, what about pure, primal, carnal attraction with someone? Haven’t you ever met someone where you felt your body react to them before your brain could catch up? Where you knew you had to make a connection happen? Since you are at the highest, elite level and have power and prestige, I would think you could make an introduction happen with anyone you want. Aside from intimacy which you avoid with sex, has it ever been more with someone? I guess it just goes back to some people have a true chemical reaction to each other.
In a word; no.
Ghastly!
Thanks HG, as always, really value your opinion
Pleasure.
Alexis not are are physically beautiful. Some that work with me are really untractive, on the other side very intelligent.
I also know now about two couples which are divorcing now in a typical narcissist way with all described in this blog and books and the men are not attractive at all to my opinion because anyway what is beauty if not interior? I call HG beautiful blue eyes because In my mind his eyes must reflect the narcissist void and that plus the fact that I love blue eyes then they become beautiful in my mind but in reality I have not seen them but they will always be beautiful, because its subjective, although most probable he does have beautiful eyes.
You’re right nikita. And mine was definitely not !! Made me think even more he was just a genuinely nice guy ! Though a bit weird !
And a related question, how much difference does frequency of access make to the onset of devaluation? For example, living with them vs seeing them once or twice a week, all things being equal traitswise.
The onset of devaluation is likely to be delayed where we only see you once or twice a week, that said however you may not become a primary appliance if that is the level of interaction, someone else will.
HG, at the beginning of a relationship you are positively fueled and that is sufficient for a while. But then you say the fuel goes stale. I understand that after a while your primary source is likely to begin letting you down, or you perceive it that way at least, and so you start the devaluation. Hypothetically speaking, were your primary source not to let you down, never criticise you and also continued to admire you, etc., etc., with the same intensity, would the fuel become inevitably become stale nonetheless? Through straightforward boredom? If yes to my question, how long do you think it would take to reach the devaluation stage in this case, relative to the usual?
I would not get bored if the fuel was sustained at the appropriate level.
Sheila,
I’m lucky enough to be in a position where sex is the only thing I expect and want from my somatic N, so I consider myself a very lucky girl in that regard. Yes the dance gets exhausting at times but the reward is always worth it. Just broke a 2 week no contact today so I’ve been busy dodging and redirecting intense love bombing once again😣
Hi NQN, I’ve had a few relationships with SNs before and yes, the sex is intense and gratifying. Which was why I was very much tempted by the offer I had yesterday from a person on a dating site who happened to be a former co-worker of mine at a previous place we both worked at. I knew we already had a physical attraction for each other, but until getting to know him in a non-work setting I had no idea he was a SN. A male nurse to boot, I’m sure he would have rocked my world lol i’m just not open for a strictly sex kind of relationship and don’t want to get entangled with an N in any way…. but the sex… mmm hmmm… kicking myself, I know it would be great! 😀
HG will you be writing more in depth about the different types of Ns? Specifically the Somatic type? I haven’t read your book on sex yet and possibly I should after my fishing experiment that stretched over hours this morning… that had the potential to end sometime tomorrow with me being physically exhausted and satisfied if you catch my meaning.
Yes dive into Sex,plenty of revelations there. I have books on each of the four cadres and they are in progress. I cant say when they will be available yet though.
Literally laughing my ass off at your choice of words… I was encouraged for hours to ‘dive into sex’ this morning. Quite an attractive offer actually and nearly accepted, but the offer was strictly sex.
I’m no expert either but I have the sense that psychopaths may not have ‘the creature’ to deal with and are less likely to experience fear/paranoia.
A fair point especially concerning the creature. I fear little and any paranoia I may have is entirely justified of course.
A couple more questions for you HG.
Firstly, what distinguishes you from being a psychopath or a sociopath. I’ve read so many different books and there is little consensus between the authors about the differences and again with ASPD many argue only Ps can have ASPD and I would disagree on that.
So essentially my question is, how do you know you’re not a P ?
Another thing I’d like to know, I’ve read a lot about your relationship with your mother but I wonder (and please accept my apologies if I have already asked this question, I feel like I have but not sure if I dreamt it? You can’t gaslight me on that one though as I’d accept your answer and not worry about whether you were right or not) whether publically you show love for your mother ? And tell everyone how wonderful she is ?
Oh I have another so more than a couple 🙂
A number of the books I read, sometimes start by saying how some Ns can be treated. Well as soon as I read that I think the author as completely incompetent because everything else I’ve learned from books and documentaries has strong evidence to the contrary. Do you think I’m missing out by not reading these ?
One more, one more 🙂 🙂
I know you’re a rather distinguished gentleman but not all Ns are. And many seem able to punch above their weight ! Objectively I’d give myself (haha) about 7/10 physically speaking and 10/10 on sexiness !! So that brings me up to about an 8 😉 but I’d rate my MN about a 3/10 – a high 3 though HG !! so do they actually beleive they’re better looking than they are ?
Question One. I am not a psychologist so I don’t know the answer. How do I know I am not a psychopath? My mum said I’m not. No, seriously, maybe I am and nobody has diagnosed it yet. I have been called it a few times by histrionic liars so that does not count. Maybe I will ask the good doctors but I bet those idiots will say “Do you think you are a psychopath” or they would if I wasn’t stood with their severed heads in my left hand. Only kidding. It would be my right hand. No, I am not violent. I may ask them.
Question Two. I show my mother respect. She has many good qualities which I am content to tell others about.
Question Three. No you are not missing out.
Question Four. Firstly, you would actually be 8.5 but let’s not fall out over a half. Secondly, a three is a three is a three. Thirdly, it is often the case that we think we are better looking than we are since we purloin this trait from attractive people we fraternise with. Except me. I know I am gorgeous.
Hahha thanks HG. I’d be interested what your doctors think re #1.
Love your response to #3 and of course #4 🙂
You are welcome.
HG, during the very early stages of lovebombing from the MN, he once told me that he was accused of attempting to rape his best friends wife. I though it really worrying that this may have happened and also a bit odd that he would tell me since I didn’t know this friend (they were no longer friends). During the same conversation he told me Nat because of this he recorded everything we said and downloaded it onto his laptop ??? Just in case he ever needed to prove his innocence ??
Okay okay, massive red flags which I eventually ignored. I did ST him because of his but he would use the pity play of his illness to draw me back in.
Why do you think he would tell me this ? Was he just making it up to see how I would react ? Or just testing our friendship ?
I did tell you I though he was a weirdo in the early stages and felt nothing whatsoever for him, in fact quite the opposite which I still find quite unbeivable I was sucked in by him at all ? Because it was not as you and many others describe feeling an instant match. I just thought he was odd !! And had no intention of there ever being anything between us.
Anywya, back to my original question…………..
Two things at play here Alexis.
1. Good old fuel. He tells you this in order to provoke a reaction.
2. Anchoring. He wants to record everything but he knows that will seem odd,so he leads with something even more dramatic (rape accusation) so you think, “It is a bit odd but I can kind of understand why he would want to record anything so I will let is pass.” It is similar to me selling you a car for £ 10 000 (which is overpriced) and I tell you it is worth £ 15 000 so you think you have a good deal.
Thanks HG, I understand, well it certainly makes more sense than before. I guess to me it seems such an odd thing to say as it was very early on and I could have been horrified and he lost his supply. He was texting And calling 100s of times per day already. That said, at the time I was comparatively new to the watering hole and he was well established there.
the difference is, now I’d tell him to ‘go f*** himself’ whether I was new to the group, he was recording or videoing or whatever
Always watch out for watering holes, you never know who is lurking in the long grass.
Thanks HG, you never know and I did see some of your apples for sale, they were too bitter, I didn’t go back for a second bite and I made sure the gate could not be locked.
Hello HG. I’ve read narcissist seduction and ensnared. When is unmasked coming out?
Hello K and thank you for asking. Unmasked is in progress and I would anticipate it being published in 4-6 weeks.
HG, I’ve read unmerous articles on Ns being energy vampires and how they literally steal our souls. Ns see our good qualities and want them for their own until we (empaths) become a shadow of putt former self.
Your articles focus on us providing fuel and once you have extracted all positive and negative fuel from us we become a husk of ourself.
Are you stealing parts of our soul / personality or is fuel a completely separate concept ?
We want your fuel. We also want your traits, attributes etc. See Black Hole (out tomorrow for more on this and plenty more besides)
thanks HG, I’m feeling very special now. Every time I ask a question, you always have a book just about to come out about the very subject. Almost as though you’re staying up all night to take care of my needs and wants 😉
You have got it in one.
So I will be the first one to buy it. Maybe I should stay up all night in case its an early delivery ….
I’ll have to get back to you on that. I’ll need to take notes and somehow stop myself from writing an essay…..
What do you think of Sam Vaknin’s take on narcissism, assuming you’ve encountered his writing or broadcasts? I was just reading http://samvak.tripod.com/narcissistoppositesex.html on narcissistic (primary) relationships and can’t help feeling that you and he may differ on a number of points. I’d be very interested to know where those differences might lie.
I know of him but I have not read any of his work. Where do you think those differences lie?
A touch perhaps ;). But you know what I said is true all the same.
Of course. All paranoid people think it would be foolish not to be 🙂
Ha ha. Are you making fun of me?!
So you find a kind, considerate, understanding, decent, caring, honest, moral, compassionate, believer in love who you think might be the one that won’t let you down but, even then, you must be constantly vigilant since they are bound to want to topple you.
I do find it odd that a feeling of omniscience and omnipotence coexists with so much paranoia, But there it is.
I guess topple might sometimes equate to shackle and no matter how well they suit you, you must guard against that,
Cheers HG
When you have the power K other people always want it. It is a fool who does not remain vigilant.
You write a lot about your selection of targets – empaths, super empaths, codependents etc and appear to be well aware of the traits that you can most easily exploit, but equally, you say that you believe that everyone operates in a similar manner to you. I have certainly seen this in my N. He distrusts me because he knows he cannot be trusted. He manipulates me because he believes that I will try to manipulate him etc. etc. It is all a matter of self defense and winning the game. So here, narcissistic traits and motivations are projected on to others while also recognising and exploiting traits and motivations in others that are absent in Ns,
What’s happening here?
It is called getting your retaliation in first. By projecting and accusing you of the very things that we do we manipulate you, confuse you and make you out to be the bad and crazy person to reinforce our façade of being the decent and “normal” one in the relationship.
Ok, but that is a deliberate tactic (although I can imagine it may be used unconsciously as well as it becomes more habitual). But I’m not talking about projection in that sense. I’m asking if, for example, you might choose a trusting and apparently trustworthy person but don’t allow yourself to trust them (because people can’t be trusted), or an open and straightforward person but can’t quite believe that they would not try to hide something from you (because being transparent makes no sense to you). Forget about manipulation for a moment, I’m asking about your perception.
I don’t trust anybody, they all seek to topple me in some way but I am wise to what they do K, so I can stay ahead of them or ensure they are unable to effect their plans.
Ah – you’ve already replied
One more…..I’ve just read one of your posts on empathy, I wasn’t talking about cold empathy, but the warm ‘I feel your pain’ type.
He doesn’t know what he is by the way. I once broached the subject but of course it was rejected. He’s trying to be the good person that he fundamentally believes that he is. All the awful behaviour that he has displayed is my fault or no big deal. And I really do think he believes that. His mask is always on when he;s not dealing with me of course and most people think he’s just the loveliest guy and reinforce his view.
But of course, we are delightful people, just ask the other posters here!
I’ve been in a relationship with a Narc for 7 years (8 if I include the last year due to an inability to let go on both our parts). When we met he was 20. I understand that your diagnosis has informed you about what you are labelwise, but in your writings (those I have read so far) I have the impression that your narcissism was not fully manifested until your undergraduate days. The narc in my life love bombed and I easily recognised that he was self centred and manipulative from very early on but I have the impression he is getting worse as the years go on. Unfortunately he is from a culture in which such behaviour is almost necessary in order to survive and that, together with his youth, gave me all the excuses for his behaviour that I needed.I thought these traits would subside as he got older and also when he moved to the UK to be with me since this culture is not so cut throat – they didn’t. Of course I realise that in the devaluation and discard stages in which the mask slips more and more frequently, a narc’s behaviour will get worse and that’s par for the course, but I have the strong impression that his ability to empathise has actually deteriorated. I’ve read that narcs get worse in later stages of their lives when they lose some of their sparkle and they become bitter about their failures, and also that some mellow a little with age. But what is your experience? Do you feel that you or others of your kind ‘bloom’ into full narcship at any stage? Not in terms of successes but in terms of the traits themselves. Thanks!
Indeed we do bloom into full narcship as you put it. We have a period where we are at the height of our powers, our demand for fuel is great and thus the need for seduction et al becomes pressing. Our skills become honed, our artistry finessed and our manipulative machinations magnified. There is no set period for when this might happen but it will be around the time that adulthood arrives. It is interesting in terms of the effect of the onset of age. I see the Victim Narcissist as one whose traits wane as he recognises the residual benefit that he obtains from his primary source in terms of domesticity and caring. The Somatic Narcissist on the other hand fights the withering of the flesh, loss of hair and diminution in musculature and thus his vitriol is likely to increase. I am in interested in your comments about the environment from which your narc arrived, in terms of culture. What was it?
Nigerian. However I had been living there for 5 years (6 months on. 6 months off) when we met and was very well acquainted with the relatively unsophisticated methods of manipulation that I frequently found there and for which Nigerian scammers are well known. I would never have contemplated a serious relationship with a Nigerian but he was unusual and far far more interesting than most in lots of ways and I believe we genuinely clicked. I was very different from most women he’d known and he hadn’t had time to scrutinize me and my ways when this happened. There was some mirroring, I now realise, but the click was the result of more than that – at least that’s what I believe.
But as far as that culture, and others like it, is concerned there seems to be a very high incidence of child abuse, both physical and emotional, and it’s also very common to treat sons as little princes so the nurture part of the development of a narcissist is very often in place. It seems plausible that narcissist/psychopathic traits might be strongly selected for (genetically) in that environment as well since it really is every man for himself. Even friends, relatives and spouses can not be counted on more often than not and deception, manipulation and power struggles are the norm in the vast majority of relationships of any type (not every single one but I have to generalise for the sake of brevity here). Most Nigerians are also extremely adept at donning a mask and also not leaking certain emotions since they will invariably be used against them at some point, especially by their nearest and dearest.
A generous, kind, empathic, open individual will lose and that’s just the way it is. I was really surprised at how rarely, what we Westerners would regard as, good or noble characteristics and behaviours were rewarded. A quick story – one man I knew eventually became a councilor (local government) in the village next to where I was based. That meant he had access to money to be used for the improvement of conditions. He spent all the money on prostitutes and buying motorbikes for his accomplices of course and died soon afterwards of HIV. All the village complained about him but not because of his lack of good works – because he hadn’t had the sense to at least build himself a better house for his family to live in, especially now he was gone. I’ll never forget that. It’s not all bad though. Nigerians are intelligent, resourceful and often extremely witty and theatrical and I have not laughed till I cried and my stomach muscles hurt as much in any other environment.
I understand why people talk about the rise of narcissism these days and the ‘it’s all about me’ culture that appears to be developing but that’s only if the focus is primarily on the developed Western world over the last hundren years or so. It will always have been an asset in hierarchical, competitive, resource limited environments, i.e., pretty much all human societies since humans evolved, especially given that narcopths can so easily put on the cooperative, ‘I;m just like you and want what you want’ mask and then act on their extreme selfishness where this strategy will serve them better. Most people attempt to do this sometimes but for narcissists it’s their modus operandi and are extremely adept at it.
Thanks for the reply and I get what you say about honing your skills with experience. That should mean that your capacity for faking empathy should increase but you didn’t indicate whether you feel that you capacity (limited though it may have been) for empathy actually declined at any stage or whether you believe that it simply wasn’t there, ever. My narc’s capacity appears to have declined, even where it would benefit him to use it. Is that possible or do you think he just doesn’t bother to deploy that facade with me any more?
Thanks for elaborating and I found that interesting to read. I have had some experience with the 419 (advance fee fraud) scams that originated from Nigeria (no I was not a victim) and can concur with your observations about certain traits that are evident in Nigerians. I was not aware just how extensive the selfishness etc which you describe was however as I did not spend long in the country as my work was principally form the UK. Nevertheless I found your recollection interesting.
Turning to the question of empathy. I did not have any, to answer your question.
Hello HG, only just came across you and have started reading your blog and books. Interesting for sure although you being the grand narc that you are means that while the essence of what you write is likely to capture how things are for all of the varieties you describe, the particular manifestations of your narcissism are not always representative of the behaviours those of us on the other end of your have experienced. I’ll have plenty of questions……..
Hello Karn and welcome. Through my extensive machinations and also my involvement with others of my kind I have a wide knowledge of those manifestations but there will be further pieces of the jigsaw which can be provided by posters such as yourself. I look forward to your questions.
HG I’m interested to ask if when you first source some new fuel – and I do understand that they are just an appliance to you and you have no real feeling for them at any stage of the relationship – do you despise them straight away ? Or do you enjoy their company? do you despise them and they make your skin crawl only during devaluation ? Or neither ? Are they still just like an object which you neither have positive or negative feelings for ? Other than the enjoyment of fuel from their emotional reaction
I’m interested, because when I used to date guys, it would always reach a stage for me when Id had enough, I never devalued them but I was quick to discard as I could no longer stand to be near them.
I wonder if you feel this or nothing at all ? is everyone just the same as long as they provide you with fuel ?
I do not despise that person at first because they are giving me what I want and I actually wonder (even though past performance has indicated otherwise) whether this person might just be the one to keep getting it right. I will enjoy their company because they provide me with fuel. The despising begins during devaluation and then I despise myself for having chosen this person when I ought to have known better. When you discarded was the sensation one of, this is going nowhere so may as well end it or I am bored so I will end it or this guy makes me want to vomit so adios!?
Pretty much, this guy makes me vomit. Almost always. And it never took long to get there.
I look back on it now though, based on everything I’ve learned from you. A lot of the guys (not all) would call incessantly, buy gifts etc etc and I found that really off putting my. I thought I must have some kind of addictive quality ? With my new found knowledge from you HG, I look back and wonder if some of them were Ns and they were attempting to lovebomb me ? And that I possibly got out before they had the chance to devalue me?
That may well be the case and you listened to your instinct rather than be taken in by all the sparkling stuff.
Do you despise them when you hoover ?
No, the prospect of Hoover charm cures all ills.
Hahha okay HG.
That’s really interesting though- thank you.
P.S Fuel was consumed in one sitting and I find it very much as I thought it to be with a few things I hadn’t thought through on my own. Great book HG, will write a revue once I digest it and after my weekly visit to my therapist today.
Thank you Sheila and I am pleased you found it useful.
Im happy for you sheila. With Fury and Fuel and the toolkit you will understand alot! Enjoy the reading.
Question for you HG. Knowing that I have more on my plate then just past relationships with N’s, namely my daughter, what 4 (I think I have enough at the moment for 4) of your books would you recommend I read?
Hi Sheila, Fuel, Chained, The Devil’s Toolkit and Fury would be useful starting points given what you have disclosed.
Thank you HG, it looks like I have a weekend of reading ahead of me, Hopefully between your books and my therapist (who happens to be very insightful and very honest about not expecting my daughter to change much, if at all) I’ll be as prepared as I can for her eventual return.
Absolutely Sheila, your therapist is indeed realistic and combining this with reading and heightening your understanding will aid your preparation. You should also consider Escape as this will arm you with techniques to manage the situation where No Contact is not an option. Interestingly, I was contacted by a British reader who has a very similar situation to you. This reader does read the blog and may begin to interact as I suspect you can both share knowledge with one another.
The first 4 you mentioned have been bought, gift from a friend (thank you!) and will no doubt give me much food for thought. With her diagnosis provided a few weeks ago by the psychologist I began with the assumption that her behaviour was unlikely to change and so I must learn to live with it as best as I can. I would be very much interested in talking with another person in my situation and very much hope your reader becomes active on the blog. It feels very intimidating and at times surreal to live with a child such as my daughter. How can you love someone that has made attempts on your life? Manipulates you into thinking that you’re being poisoned (police detectives investigated and were very much concerned that she was even manipulating them), but has times where she’s completely different, loving, caring, happy and fun to be with. If it were anyone else besides my daughter, my own child, as a somewhat sane person I would be running away!
Perhaps that person will read your comment Sheila and be moved to interact, I await with interest.
Cursed typos. Human.
Advisor of spiritual enlightenment, enforcer of truths, official mirror holder, Goddess….
Quite the CV you have there.
The last is self titled ….I was suggesting roles that would be useful for you, did you have more appropriate ones?
Admirer-in-chief
I read that as Admiral -in – Chief 😊 official Songbird of Praises to the King, that might be more to your liking. I will take Officer of Collateral Damage and Hunan Wreckage.
I sure there are many that would accept though😀
Naturally.
I wonder how many commenters on the blog are actually lieutenants of yours, meshed in with individuals who are here truly seeking information, solace and healing? Only you and they know that truth. It can be detectable to some through pattern, frequency and language. Possibly why MLA, thought you were posing as a commenter. There is so much manipulation and deception running rampant in this world, one needs to rely on what they feel to be true and ensure they ask the right questions. This helps avoid mistrust and miscommunication. Why I say communication is essential. It is good you both cleared up your doubts on the matter. It is good you respond HG to these questions, it must be difficult at times . Thank you.
None of my Lieutenants comment on here. I am looking for recruits though. Interested?
I would be of no value in that area, I am loyal, but I am also honest and do not intentionally harm others.
I can find a role for you fitting those traits.
I am going to come back and read your blogs from the beginning , before I arrived on this doorstep weeks ago.
My question, is as such: do your doctors have access to this blog, seeing that is public domain? If it is a codicil of your therapy. Do they read each entry you make,the reader comments and your subsequent replies? If so then I would suggest that your responses may be compromised by their watchful eyes. Do you temper your replies according to how the doctors may perceive them during a therapy session?
Meaning that your true nature may still masked, even when imparting the truth. Do you ever have the desire to cut some one down for diminishing or slighting who you are,? To swear at them? To be a bit more cutting then sarcasm will allow? Or are your responses as they would be if expressed in private?
Just a thought/question, I had. Thank you in advance for a reply.
They know about it because I told them about it. I agreed that if I was to write these articles and blogs that they were not to read them. I suspect, because they cannot be trusted, they will have breached the undertaking they gave me and if I find evidence of them having done so then I shall be hauling them up before the GMC. I should imagine however that they will read my writings but pretend that they have not. Since I believe this to be the case I do not temper what I write because it empowers me to think that they may be reading something they do not like or that which they are desperate to comment on and thus I am exerting control over them. Such a thought often sustains me when I am subjected to uncomfortable questioning by them. Do I ever have the desire to cut down those who slight me? Of course. Whether I will depends on where I am in my extraction of fuel with them. I mould my response so it suits my purposes. As for profanity,I can use it if I choose to but I find an absence of it allows the recipient of my comments to focus on the words used rather than the excess baggage of profanity that others tends to use and cloud their messages.
Very interesting questions Karaa34. In fact, H.G., early on, didn’t you think I was Dr. O masking as a reader with some of the questions I was asking early on especially with the side of the chemical addiction on both parties? lol
On the other hand there’s always the remote possibility that H.G. could mask as a reader to chastise another as a way to lash out if he is not partial to their unsavory remarks.
(….Kat….)
I would guess the doctors read these blogs thoroughly on the down-low and then proceed with their questions / topics based on what they read here after a bit of a time lapse. This is true gold!
I did indeed Clarece but my investigations have satisfied me that you are not Dr O which I am pleased about. I have no interest in appearing as another commentator. I do not talk to myself ! You have remarked on several occasions that you thought Kat was me but it is safe to say she was not. I do not care if you believe me or not but that is a fact. I agree with your final paragraph and when I unearth the evidence which shows what they have been upto and in breach of their undertaking well there will be questions asked of them.
Oh hi H.G., you’re a quick one to respond today! I was just pokin’ fun at ya! I don’t really think you’re Kat. (Anymore) hee hee Thank God too, as she did not think very highly of me.
So when readers have presented questions that you have answered that you seek more information and that you will in fact ask the “good” doctors, are they allowed to read those blogs to get the full picture? Are they allowed to read your books? Does your family know about your blogs and books?
Play nice Clarece! No the doctors do not get to see the articles to get the full picture, I portray the information to them as I see fit. No they are not allowed to read my books either. I explained I could not express myself if I had them looking over my shoulder which they accepted. My younger brother knows about the books and blog. I am surprised he has not been on to comment actually but then again perhaps he was Kat !
Touche! I will play nice since you asked so kindly!
Why does it really matter if the doctors read your books or blog anyway? Don’t you end up sharing all the same information to them? What outcome is your family hoping to see that will terminate you having to continue seeing the doctors? Since you have said you don’t want to change or can’t be changed or explore ways that could maybe alter how you process the reward for power chemically or learn to manifest ways to feel empathy or other emotions aside from hate and greed, at some point you will be at an impasse. no?
Your brother is not Kat. He would have been cheering me on!
Not necessarily and it was also about me placing some governance on them so I was not wholly submitted to their demands.
With regards to my family I will let my mother answer that one ” We want you to regulate your behaviour so you cease to bring chaos to all those who you draw close to you.” Ha, bit rich coming from here but there you are, you asked, I answered.
We may reach an impasse, we shall have to see. It is not my problem.
No he is not Kat but he would not have been cheering you on, he knows where his loyalties lie!
Tsk, tsk, H.G. I too have been faithfully loyal…
So how’s that chaos level coming down? Should we check in with Kim on that one?
I think Dr. E and Dr. O are going to be lifers.
Lifers, ha ha I like it. You cannot check in with Kim at present she is unobtainable.
Kim is unobtainable = discarded.
Not so.
Ok – I have a question for you. Recently, I had to face a pretty serious medical test / biopsy and for two weeks lived on pins and needles until I received results this week that were wonderful and life will go as usual with a little healing. If you were faced with a life-altering illness, would it change how you view anyone from your past? Is there anyone that you would not want to leave this earth without seeing one more time to either give proper closure, make amends, seek their companionship etc. Would it change how you view a current intimate partner or a past one (i.e. Karen)?
Amanda.
Obviously Amanda. But you are continually searching for her now regardless if you live or die tomorrow. However, I mean someone that you actually got to have an intimate relationship with. There are no final words you’d wish to speak to any of them?
Oh I would have something to say to all of them.
Thank you your reply. I would fathom they are reading and documenting from your blogs and books for therapeutic discussion. i am sure you can ascertain somehow, in a clever manner, if they is so.
Hahah and in true N style, you’re method, is your method, is your method.
It’s written in the stars 😉
HG, I’ve made some observations recently, mainly work or business- pleasure situations.
Anyway it seems to me there are a very small number of non Ns who do manage to make it high up the chain. They are intelligent, passionate people who really care about and belwice in what they do. Some of these people are right at the top. But they seem to be surrounded by Ns all trying to get their tendrils in.
I’m really interested on any thoughts you have on this.
Some of the Ns seem to like to hide behind this person and just be associated with their greatness. Others perhaps want to push them out of the way.
I’m not exactly sure what my question is here haha
Whilst I’m very good at reading into and understanding what’s going on, articulating it like you do is not a skill of mine.
So I’d love to know what your most expert view is HG.
Don’t keep me waiting HG, surely I’m more imortantant than your other appliances ?? !!!
!!!!
!!!!!!!!
Hello Alexis, yes there are those who are not of our kind who do climb the tree and do so to decent heights although their journeys are invariably harder than ours because they are bogged down with certain emotional attachments.
HG I’ve discovered, or rather just realized a pattern that’s been happening with my ex-N at work. I’ve just had a 4th person directed to me by him to discuss animal rescue, most recently sent a new temp employee to me about adopting a cat. They usually start off by saying “T” and I were talking and I mentioned I was interested in adding a new pet to my family, he sent me to you. He says you know everything there is to know and can answer my questions/put me in contact with the right people.
Ok, I know his pattern of 21 questions when he’s been assigned a new temp employee, so I know he’s steering the conversation the way he wants it to go. I know he’s doing this as fuel/triangulation. My question is how do I get him to stop without having to breach my NC? I don’t mind helping the person find what they’re looking for, but it’s getting a little creepy having him manipulate conversations to rescue and directing people to me. The lady in question most recently admitted that she really wasn’t ready for a new cat, but “T” insisted that she come talk to me about it.
This is an attempt to triangulate by proxy and is a standard response. You wont get anywhere asking him to stop as you probably realise as he will not do so, deny he is doing anything wrong “But I thought you could help them?” and contacting him will amount to fuel. You either address the conversation with the unwitting proxy to reduce the impact of his influence or if this is possible get someone else within your work to deal with these new enquiries until he realises this triangulation by proxy does not work and he gives up. It seems to me that you need a filter put in place to minimise the fuel he gets from sending people to you.
It seems he’s trying to gage how long I intend to stay at the same place of employment too. The woman that came to speak to me last night was very ‘helpfull’ about suggesting places I should submit my CV that would maybe pay better. I was a little baffled at first, I’ve done very well by being hired on where I am, received a raise already even though my 3 month probation isn’t over and have room to rise quite nicely. Then I realized it was “T” trying to gather information through her.
Once I clear my second raise I am definitely buying all your books. I need more insight into the minds of N’s, especially working so closely with my ex 🙁
HG what are your thoughts on the Kray twins ?
Ronnie was diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic, do you think he was? Or do you think he was just much higher on the scale of psychopathy than his twin ?
They loved their mum didn’t they?
Sure did !
I naturally know about the Krays and I have seen the film with the Kemp brothers but not yet seen legend. I like Tom Hardy. He is a fantastic actor. I remember when he was starting out and had a great part in Cape Wrath as Jack of Alltrades. He was somewhat odd. I have not really analysed the Krays because I find the whole arse-licking with the gangster scene etc tiresome. I’ve been in the Blind Beggar in Whitechapel and seen the bulletholes in the wall. Not much of a boozer these days though, very little to recommend it. I did read a book by Kate Kray (don’t know which one she married) where she interviewed various British hard men. I did not finish the book as the questions were inane. I should imagine some publisher had to publish it or have his Jacobs removed! What do you think about the Krays?
I haven’t read about them extensively as like you, gangsters are not really something I follow. But I watched the film with Tom Hardy recently and you’re right he is a very good actor. It portrayed a very different side to them compared to the movie with the Kemp brothers. There was a lot about how they had many disputes and fights with each other but how reggie ( the straight one) was always having to smooth things over because Ronnie took things too far and landed them in unnecessary trouble.
But reggie was diagnosed as a schizophrenic and I haven’t seen anything Depicted in either film which warrants that. But as I said I have not read about them extensively either.
Whilst reading the section in your book about group sex and placing people how you wanted them, it reminded me of a scene in the film severence , wher Danny dyer explains to the group what some old house used to be used for. It’s a black
Comedy, not sure if you go in for that sort of film and can’t imagine it would be one to impress your typical type of fuel but it’s really funny
I have Severance on DVDs from years back but not watched it yet
HG, I wondered whether jn your upcoming book about sex, you will answer this question,
When you have sex with another person (or even by yourself). Are you thinking about sex ? Either with that person or another ?
Or are you thinking about something completely different, like something cruel you have done to them or another source of fuel ?
and if this is not going to feature in your book, a simple answer would be good.
Thanks in anticipation
Thanks Alexis this point is covered in the book in the section entitled ‘Laurel and I’
Don’t make me Jealous HG ! You know I hate it when you so that !
I have so many questions still, trying to pace it HG !!
You don’t seem to like talking about your mother too much.
I’m interested HG can you tell which Ns have had overly ‘loving’ mothers and those who have been neglected / traumatised by their mother ?
Some of the Ns I know of are almost in love with their mothers and others are very distant from them.
Are the ones in love with their mothers, trauma bonded to them ? Or do they love the fact their mother dotes on them ?
And what of the ones who are distant ?
Hi Alexis, if you want to know more about my mother she makes an appearance in Fury which will provide you with some enlightenment.
I generally find that those who were smothered and were the golden child tend to be more brutal in their behaviours. I do not mean necessarily more violent, but the sense of entitlement, the according of special status, the complete lack of respect for any boundaries is far greater. I think it is correct that the mother-narc relationship is either one of utter adoration or great distance and I have not necessarily seen any correlation to smother/neglect. I know one narc who hates his mother even though she held him up as the golden child whereas another who was treated in a similar fashion would probably sleep with her if she let him! I sometimes think it relates to whether the N has any awareness of his situation and that affects the way he looks at his mother. I know my situation best obviously and can only really speculate when it comes to others since I am not privy to their dynamic in the same way.
Of course you must be right HG so I’ll take it as fact. Thank you for sharing it must be a tough thing to think about.
No problem.
HG when did you realise you were ‘different’ from other people and when did you realise you were an N ? How did you work it out and how did it make you feel ?
I think it was around the age of 15 that I realised I was more gifted than other people and destined to achieve. When did I realise I was an N? That has been a recent realisation occasioned through the work of Dr E and Dr O. I am an intelligent man and coupled with their work on heightening my awareness this resulted in me realising the category into which I have been placed. How did it make me feel? At first I was irritated by being categorised by them. Then I was pleased because it meant that they recognised my special place in the world and it has given me the greater opportunity to understand how I tick which in turn allows me to fine tune my talents.
My husband is a Narc. We have been together for over 7 years. In the beginning, he used the typical love bombing. Sex was amazing and loving. Within 6 months, everything had changed. He no longer wanted sex at all. One excuse after the other. No longer wanted to even hold me or show me affection. We are now at the point where we don’t even share a room. I’m fine with that, since I am over his sexual manipulation. But, I thought that most Narcs were over-sexed? I don’t believe he has cheated, as he doesn’t drive, we live out in the boonies, and he’s never away from the house for any significant amount of time. He doesn’t have a cell phone (that I know of), has no friends, and has no interest in the computer, so I know porn isn’t a part of all of this. He is 45 years old.
Hi Patty, we give the impression of being over-sexed but this is just, as you identify, a method of manipulation. It is used to draw you in,make you feel wonderful so you become addicted to being with us and then we take it away (because firstly it is really a chore and secondly because it makes you react all the more and thus provide us with fuel). Although his options appear limited,your husband will be obtaining fuel in some way. He is a narc,he has to have it. Most of it will be coming from you, but he will obtain it from other sources. You probably do not know everything about him.
Do you ever feel sexually attracted to others or are all women equal on that front ? Apart from the supply it gives you plus allowing you to show women off to others ?
I can appreciate that some people are better looking, more interesting,more alluring than others but it is their role as a supplier of fuel that accords them their real attraction for me. Yes, if I know the person I am with is regarded as desirable by the standards of others, that admiration and envy provides me with fuel.
I will purchase all off them maybe even take a few much needed days off and read them . I really commend you and appreciate the candid honesty into the truth of your mind so I can more effectively move forward in life.
Thank you, I hope you find them interesting and insightful. They are not to be enjoyed but rather to inform and grip people. By gaining an understanding of my kind and me you can make informed decisions for yourself. Thank you for your compliments and please do continue to post, I appreciate your involvement.
Having just stumbled across all your blogs, I’m interested to know how your childhood differed from the norm, to make you as you are now?
I’m a little confused as everywhere you read, it states quite specifically (from specialists and ex sufferers) that NPD cannot be overcome, cannot be beaten. How did you come to the realisation that this is your life? What triggered it?
Hello Suzanne, I don’t think my childhood differed much from that experienced by others. Perhaps you would describe what you regard as the norm and then I can compare and contrast. I certainly wasn’t locked a piss-stained cupboard with a blue light and made to read the bible for four hours if I burped at dinner!
As to my realisation it came about from observing someone else’s behaviour and realising that I acted in a similar way. That person had been branded a narcissist and being the educated fellow that I am I went and read everything I could about it. I reached the conclusion that I too am a narcissist. That is a fact and it cannot be changed.
In terms of what triggered it, there are three constituent parts. One concerned my loss of Amanda (which I have referred to in an answer to an earlier poster) as for the other two I will reveal that in my continued writing.
What has been your experience of NPD?
Thank you for your reply.
I’ve read so much on narcissism and yet your experience seems to be contrary to what I’ve read? According to ‘specialists’in the subject, it’s either over smothering or neglect in infancy but this does not seem to be the case with you?
My experience is complicated as my ‘partner’, has traits. Certainly he doesn’t cheat or act as full on as you, but there is definitely a very difficult streak. Gaslighting is a speciality of his. He’s very charming at times, but emotionless a lot. Perfected acts in certain ways, but cold blank eyes behind it.
His mother and his young son were actually the triggers to me seeking answers as they are both massive attention seekers. She changes the conversation to herself at EVERY opportunity. Has every medical condition going. No one is good enough for her son and she started smear campaigns against me before I even knew what narcissism was. I have brain washed her son etc. She used our daughter as scapegoat and his son as golden child. His son is nasty and rude. Has pushed us out of the family home, hates me and doesn’t want her father to see his daughter as he’ll get jealous.
Like I said, complicated…
You are welcome. What do you understand by my experience? You may have noticed that I do not mention a lot about my childhood. I actually struggle to remember a lot of it,so it would be helpful if you could perhaps refer to something specific I have made mention of that causes you to reach that conclusion. I too have read what the experts have written as to a probable cause.
Your partner may not exhibit malign behaviours but from what you have written you have clearly identified some significant indicators that suggest he is a narcissist. How do you know he does not cheat incidentally? I gain the impression (do correct me if this is wrong) that you know what he is and you feel you are able to manage him, yes? In fact, I sense you regard his mother and young son as far more troublesome than your partner. The dynamics are complicated as you appear to have three narcissists in close proximity to you. How do you propose to deal with them for your sake and that of your daughter?
You are a very astute man. Unfortunately I have not read your books. I stumbled across you by accident but a few days ago. I shall certainly be investing in them soon.
If I had the opportunity and time to invest, I would study narcissists until the cows came home. Absolutely fascinating!
As was your childhood, which you seem to know little about, so it could have been the trigger?
I am wary about talking about my partners son, as they say that personalities can change but he spent his first few years with the narc Grandmother. His mother is a diagnosed bipolar (at very least in my opinion) and his father has many issues. The son still soils himself for attention, has virtually no friends. Is cocky and arrogant with some, refuses to even speak to many. I wasn’t worthy of anything but insults. My daughter was just a vessel to get attention from. She’s still very young and very cute. He’s mentioned on many occasions how he wishes he looked like her as she’s so beautiful. Very odd…
I don’t think he cheats for a few reasons (here is where I come over as arrogant and narcissistic!). First of all, he is punching above his weight with me, and he knows it. He is not the brightest spark, but strangely clever at twisting everything. He’s odd looking and not to many peoples tastes. Also he has an autoimmune disease which knocks his socks off. The pills to combat it are just as bad, if not worse for his health.
He struggles with constant tiredness. He never goes out and his life is tedious and completely the opposite from when I met him, when he was the big drinker, the winer & diner and flash with it.
He genuinely seems to love his daughter, although his actions and words NEVER match.
I live apart from him now, so he could cheat, assuming he goes out or has someone round after 9.30. I don’t think he could manage it any more though. His body is very damaged, which must hurt him.
Hello Suzanne, yes do immerse yourself in the books, I am sure you will find them insightful and interesting although not enjoyable. Yes I can understand your interest. I know from my discussions that people cannot believe how someone (who is often intelligent, sophisticated and successful) cannot know what they are doing and purposefully destroys everything around him or her. That is often the source of fascination alongwith understanding where the behaviour stemmed from.
Your partner’s son stood little chance being surrounded by such disorders. He will have never known what normality was and has embraced their ways as the only way he sees to make his way in the world. How old is he out of interest? I would certainly be wary of letting your daughter spend any time with him (although I am sure you are wise to that already) as he will attempt to proxy her into his behaviours, especially as she is young.
You have an interesting dynamic with your partner. Are you still in a relationship although you live apart? If so, is the living arrangement a consequence of his health issues or is it something you have instigated for your sanity and the safety of your daughter. He seems to be the one who has done better out of the arrangement so how did you come to be together? I do not mind if you would prefer not to answer, I respect that, but by better understanding you set-up I am in a better position to correspond with you in a meaningful fashion and I prefer to have the facts of the matter,I feel lost otherwise.
I am very wary of his son being in the same room/house/vicinity as my daughter. He was caught searching for porn and worse (I will not mention here) at a young age. Strangely, no one around him seems to think it’s abnormal.
He’s 9 and uses his behaviour to constantly get her in trouble whilst encouraging her to misbehave. I took all that away from them 6 weeks ago.
Yes, it is an interesting dynamic. I’m very wary because he wants me to move back in, but I can’t bring myself to do it. They made my life a living hell and I’m not prepared to go through that again. However, I know that his behaviour towards his son has changed (he enabled him effectively to bully me, for want of a better word). He now has started parenting again. I just know with his words and actions mismatching, that until he starts being stable, I’m not sure I can trust him.
Yes, I instigated the move. He wants me to move back in with him but I won’t do it for now. I need proof of stability and lack of lies. Words/actions matching. I need to be away from his son as I can’t be around him. I struggle with him, so badly.
I met him online (narcissists sweet shop, huh?!) and he looked and acted different from all the other bozo’s. He showed me his true colours early on and yet I went back for more, knowing what I was doing, to an extent. He had a good cover story, but there was no excuse for his early behaviour. It’s a very long story (aren’t they all?!).
He was the perfect gentleman, after the first glitch. Paid for everything, wined and dined me. Promised me the world. And then I fell pregnant, very early on. I moved in with him. Left my own home to move in with him and his widowed mother. Big mistake. No idea what the hell I was thinking.
Your wariness is justified. It seems to me that after being suckered (the usual tactics of seduction and then firing that harpoon right into you to ensure you are well and truly hooked – by getting you pregnant) and no doubt suffering our usual manipulative push and pull behaviours you are exerting some degree of control. I anticipate that he will maintain steady pressure in his campaign to enable him to move back in and especially since you have a child together. When I read your final three sentences I could picture granny, him and son all salivating behind the door way as you the juicy empathy blissfully unaware skipped up the path. Out of the three of them, who is the worst and why?
Make no mistake, the push/pull stunt happens regularly. I was treated to the silent treatment just recently. Once he’d ignored our daughter for 4 days, I gave him warning that I was blocking him and did just that. I ignored his emails, blocked him on my phone and refused his phone calls.
If it happens again, there will be no coming back from it. I won’t put up with it!
That is a tricky question, because most people would think me harsh in my judgement, but it has to be his son. Whatever him and his mother are (and boy, do I hate his mother with a passion – his sister also) his son is another creature altogether. In my humble opinion, he’s sociopathic at best. He’s got absolutely no feelings for any creature, great or small except his mother (although I think that is more survival than anything else). Cannot and won’t apologise for anything. He’s cold, icy cold. He refuses to communicate. He has inner rage issues. He has no idea of hygiene of any variety. He lies barefaced to get himself out of any trouble. He hates anyone who gets in the way of what he believes is rightfully his. He has a strange, almost twisted mind. Exceptionally naive in some ways, absolutely far from it in other very wrong ways. It’s hard to describe without having being around him.
The whole family are weird. The strange thing is though, that every one of them seems ‘devoted’ (for lack of a better word), to just one partner at a time? I’d say his mother is Histrionic mixed with narcissist. I’ll never ever know. He cut his mother and sister off a year ago for their poor treatment of our daughter (odd for a narcissist?!).
You are unleashing your Power to Ignore, it is a powerful weapon and we hate it. I expand on this in Escape. Seems to me that you are gaining control and your partner is going to have to try harder if he is to wrap his tendrils around you again! Would you be bothered if he gave up since you are may be too hard to extract fuel from and went elsewhere?
The son sounds a fascinating creature and all that at 9 years old. Has there been any intervention by others regarding his behaviour? I imagine that he is problematic at school, especially with regard to his hygiene and his pathological lying. As an empathetic individual do you not feel any desire to try and help him, after all, he is just a child? Or do you think he is beyond help already?
Yes it is often the case that the cluster B categories bleed into one another. I do find it interesting that they show a devotion to just one partner at a time (of course one does not necessarily know that is this the case but let’s assume it is) I find that boring after a while and need to freshen things up with someone else to revitalise the dynamic. Do you think that perhaps they all realise that they actually need that person to help and care for them and therefore they are wary of getting rid of them altogether? In turn, that dependency infuriates and offends their sense of superiority which leads to their abusive behaviour in order to try and eradicate that sense of dependency and shame?
Actually, I don’t think it is off for a narcissist to cut someone off. I do it regularly. In the case of your partner, he was clearly triangulating his mother and your daughter, you and his mother, his sister and you, his sister andyour daughter (triangles within triangles) so by shutting them out they will give him fuel by their indignant reaction and attempts to reconnect. He would also gain it from your daughter (thank you daddy for protecting me – you are my hero) and from you (well done for being a dad for once). What do you think?
I am so pleased you feel able to discuss all of this as your set-up is fascinating and I have to say you seem rather grounded and strong. Maybe it hasn’t always been like this, but it does not appear to have left you shattered.
I do have a certain amount of control – over myself may I add. I don’t believe in controlling others, but I’ve had a very complicated life. What I didn’t realise until recently was that the step-father who brought me up, had some sort of personality disorder, so I guess I just grew up used to it. My ex husband and his mother were not nice people a lot of the time either.
The way I see it is that if he gives me up, it’s his loss, not mine. Plus he knows that his life would be far more difficult without me. I’ve saved his life and I am his rock. I’ve almost made myself indispensable, in a way. It would hurt but I’d move on, to probably happier times.
As for his son, yes. I spent 3+ years trying to ‘save’ him. My efforts were in vain and he just resorted to name calling, which my partner encouraged. Sometimes Dad cared, sometimes he didn’t. Mum never cared. Narc grandma wouldn’t have anyone do or say anything wrong as she saw him as an extension of her. Strangely, the maternal grandmother dislikes him and knows exactly what he’s like. She avoids him if she can.
He’s almost the perfect little boy at school. Keeps himself to himself and is an average student. He’s very wimpy, so doesn’t fight. How he hasn’t been bullied for soiling himself, I have no idea. Social services won’t do anything. He has a specialist looking at his soiling issue and they may well find he has mental health problems, but who knows? He’s very good at lying.
In regards to their partners, they seem to go for people who they seem to think should be grateful to be with them. Fatter, shorter, much older. These people put them on a pedestal? I guess I broke that mould. They don’t smother them though. They seem quite independent in some ways, but absolutely adore them? It’s all confusing to me as they all have obvious traits but do not seem to cheat. Maybe they’re just very clever at hiding it??
As for triangulation, add in his ex also. One minute she’s great and they’re getting on well, then she upsets him and he hates her and has to text argue with her. His mother barely acknowledges him these days. Too busy bothering Doctors?! His sister has not bothered with him at all in the last year. He treats his son like his partner at times.
Him and his mother did odd things, which although not incestuous, we’re certainly bordering on the very abnormal (in my opinion) and there are other things, which once again I’d rather not say on a public blog!
I have had my moments of almost cracking. Suffered from bad anxiety at one point, but I won’t be beaten down by a 9 year old and his ‘flying monkeys’!
Hi Suzanne, thank you for sharing all of that. It looks like mini-narc has a mask to use at school and he takes it off when he comes home and sees you. It appears that the maternal grandmother and auntie have matters worked out like you and have accordingly decided to distance themselves. There is clearly a huge bundle of issues surrounding the paternal grandmother, him and his son and it is little wonder that you have almost cracked.
It seems that my being wary was correct. Broken promises, lies and abuse.
I’m back to cutting him off as much as I can (we do have a child) and have blocked him again. I do believe that I have reached my limits! I refuse to let him break me down.
Just reading Escape.
Hi Suzanne, thanks for your post. I will be interested to learn your thoughts about Escape.
My narc was a hoarder and could not throw anything away. So when my gut was yelling at me , I went into the crawl space and dug through anything I could find. I did uncover several secrets on monumental proportions. I found he had notebooks full of his writings while in a two year program for addiction. its was a treasure. one thing I did come across was his writings about his issue with women. He said that when he was in high school he had a girlfriend and she would not sleep with him. she then ended up pregnant with another guys child. he said ever since then he’s been taking own his anger for her on all women. it could all be bs but maybe it could be true.
That is interesting. Did you ever raise with him what you found in his writings? What happened to him with his unfaithful girlfriend undoubtedly had an impact on him. How old was he when this happened? We have unrealistic expectations of our partners and at first believe them to be wonderful but we fear that the flaws (which all humans have) will emerge and we end up disappointed. Accordingly, we get our retaliation in first. I believe that many of my kind will lash out ahead of the anticipated fall from grace and it is invariably based on some major disappointment from our formative years.
Do you actually want help?
I’m not sure why you are seeing Dr’s aa you don’t seem to have any remorse for anything you have done/are doing so just wondering the purpose?
Also my narc told me when I questioned his odd behaviour and told me while drunk that he sometimes does bad things, sometimes he felt bad..other times he didn’t. He told me he could happily use a girl and then ignore. Said he felt toxic. Could be very narcissistic and controlling. I saw no sign of it then so said it couldn’t be true as he wouldn’t be telling me. He said ‘maybe I have a hidden agenda of my own’.
What was the reasons for telling me this? Do you narcs normally confess to what you are?
Hello Out of the Fog and apologies for the delay in replying. No I do not want help and I do not need it. The purpose of doing seeing the doctors is to ensure I receive a significant sum of money and also to make my brother smile as he is the only member of my family who I can have a sensible dialogue with. The rest of them are self-serving.
It is man’s greatest urge to confess. Some of the weaker members of our brethren find the knowledge of the devastation that we wreak too much to bear. Every once in a while there will be a moment of clarity when we see what we truly are and know exactly what we have done. It happens rarely for me and I just fight it down and move on, it would be weak to give in to this trick of the mind. Unfortunately, there are others who find it too difficult to deal with and they want to share that burden (not project it or blame-shift for once) but actually share it and hope they receive absolution. Your narc, aided by alcohol was doing that.
You have gotten quiet on your side to my questions to your different blogs. If you prefer I not ask anything else, just let me know. I have found your book and blogs extremely resourceful and helpful. I did not mean to overload though.
Clarece 🙂
Hello Clarece, it is not a problem, ask as much and as often as you like. I may not respond as quickly as you would prefer (or as I would prefer) but I will get around to answering you.
Hi,
I just purchased your books Evil, Manipulated and Confessions of a Narcissist, which I am very intrigued to read.
I am busy reading your blogs at the moment, they both trigger and amuse me, but mostly just seem to be resonating with me, as some truth that I have sadly, always known. I will get to the books once I have had time to absorb your worldview. I appreciate what you do; regardless of your reasons. Validation/confirmation of one’s thoughts (however insane they may seem to others) is often a godsend; even if only to bring clarity to a world that is/has been, anything but. Your worldview does seem to enable others to obtain a somewhat alternate means of closure (as one would never obtain this from their own personal situation – from “their narc/narcs”)… and so, healing can truly begin, and most importantly, such pain and dysfunction can be avoided in future..or simply left to others that do not know/understand any better. As without your insights…who knows if it would ever end. If we would ever truly step off the merry go round forever.
I noticed there were another 2 books: Narcissist – Seduction and Ensnared (I was looking on kindle – amazon.com.au) but they were from the disorder series book 1 and 2. Do you have any idea how many books there may be in the complete series?
Did I miss any titles in my search?
I don’t have anything else specific, to ask you at this point in time, but I am grateful you have extended the opportunity to your readers to do so.
In gratitude….
Hello Crystal Empath, thank you very much for your post and for purchasing the books. I appreciate that much of what I write can amount to triggers for people but I make no apologies for that. I don’t write that in a dismissive sense but rather that if I diluted the method of delivery then the content and effect will be reduced. My rationale for sharing is to enable people to understand the way my kind and me operate so they can make their own minds up how best to use that information. I cannot tell you how to heal as I know nothing about that, but I do take the view that by furnishing you with everything I say, do and think you are then given the best information and tools to then help you. I agree entirely with your observations and could not put it better.
Yes, the insights should jolt people into action and it often is necessary for it to be hard hitting to achieve this. I also take the view that if plenty of people read this blog and the books they will be saved a lot of pain and misery since nobody knows what is happening to them at the time. It is only afterwards that the realisation dawns.
With regard to the books, there are three books in the Disorder Series. The final instalment Narcissist:Unmasked will be available in a month’s time. I think you will find the disorder series interesting from a different perspective.
Look out for Escape – How to Beat the Narcissist which will be available in a week. There will also be a More Confessions of a Narcissist available in about three weeks.
If there is anything specific you would like me to blog about do ask and I am always content to answer queries or even read your rants!
Thankyou for engaging.
Heartfelt Thanks
Which of your books would you recommend to an ACoN?
While all this is really interesting as I’m recognising several patterns, it would be great to read something more related to a narcissistic parent – adult child relationship.
Thanks in advance.
Hello Helena, I have a couple of works in progress which address this dynamic but for something to be going on with in the meanwhile I would suggest Fury.
Maybe i will. At the moment i feel evil reading you.
That’s your choice and I acknowledge that. I do hope to hear more from you.
Im sure that there are significantly more so called victims (volunteers) than predators. My emotionally detached explanation: natural order. However i think most of the volunteers (including yours), are concealed predators. You will see when finally it will backfire you. Anyway. Im not a fan of either of them. Victims and predators are both too self absorbed and lost their little hurt-suffer game that most of them cant create anything more interesting than some behaviour pattern for a couple of page in the DSM5 or something quality equivalent, a book about their superiority or inferiority, however most of them has the sensitivity/talent/iq to do something more remarkable or even incredible. Its disappointing. And pathetic. There are exeptions though. But i gave up to find them.
That’s an interesting analysis. I agree that people who label themselves at victims are often self-absorbed. They repeatedly focus on their woes rather than attending to mine. I also agree that much potential is being wasted which is disappointing. I am interested in your comment that when it backfires I will see that they are a predator. Could you elaborate on what you mean please?
Help you? Who the hell would like to help you :)?
You’d be surprised how many people try to “save” me !
Hi…What would You advise Your brother if You would realise he’s in the middle of deep relationship with a Narc?
Presumably you mean your brother and not my two?
No my only one brother isn’t in any relationship. I’m asking what would You advise Your own sibling if You’d find out? 🙂
I meant Your brother…the one You have good relationship with..I presume you’d advice him something clever or decent?
It depends if it accords with my aims.
But of course, silly me 🙂