Questioning Me

Do feel free to ask me anything you like. I am here for you to dip into my mind and for you to benefit from learning how I view the world. No question is off limits and if you want to establish a dialogue with me, then so much the better. You will be helping me so I can show the treatment team that I am interacting with people in this setting. You can ask me why I do certain things, what am I thinking, what my favourite food is, whatever you like. This is your chance to extract as much knowledge and information from me as you possibly can. If you want to just make a statement, go ahead. Fill your boots. I don’t know you so I won’t fly into a rage (this does happen when people I know question me but that is because they have an agenda – you don’t because we don’t know one another). I look forward to hearing from you.

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224 Comments

  1. Hg ppl simply don’t see able to comprehend that 1/6 ppl are a narc. You’ve directed us to two of your videos on this (Lovefrauds and just at this moment I can’t recall the other one so pls do remind me) I try to send ppl here .

    Is there any particular moment , or a pattern , you’ve noticed in empaths that come here- anything that makes it CLICK, that seems to be what makes the AH HA moment happen ?

    1. Yes and I can vouch for the every 6th person. Statistics like that.

      When we learn from HG we realize a very quick way of establishing a narc, sometimes it only takes a five or ten minutes of face to face talk with a new person, their eyes have a lot of energy. They look very focused.

      And that’s about every 8th person I talk to, parents in my kid’s class, some classmates, coworkers, etc.
      Very energetic eyes.
      Or very tired-arrogant, Kevin Spacey eyes.

      They have the energy to always gaze that way because their brain, eyes and body is not occupied with the very energy demanding Empathy.

  2. Hi HG, do you have a major pet peeve about people that would make you instantly not like them or does it always depend on whether they are painted black or white? For me it would be when they are rude or disrespectful to people who are lower in ranking or status than them, it will make me avoid the person as soon as I witness that behavior.

    Also HG, is the martyr cadre similar to having a martyr complex? I have read an article about the martyr and victim complex and it is absolutely not me, except for being slightly paranoid about people but I don’t believe that I have a martyr or victim complex as described in the internet article.

      1. Thank you HG! That is an interesting difference. For follow up question, if someone is painted black and that person gives you sincere positive fuel, will the potency of the positive fuel be not as high or will there even be any potency at all? For us non-NPD, it can vary. If someone that I painted black because of something horrible about him, for example a serial killer tells me that he thinks I’m a wonderful person, there will be zero potency for me. But if someone that I had a conflict with give me positive fuel and it was sincere, there will be potency because there will be forgiveness. Is it the same with narcissists?

        And thank you for the answer to my second question. I’m glad that it’s not the same. I hope that you would write an article about the martyr cadre so that I don’t get too paranoid thinking and wondering what it is. 😅. I can’t find it in Chain. 🤷‍♀️

      2. Hi HG, I apologize if my follow up question sounded impertinent. I was just curious and the thoughts just went running in my head. Thanks for answering our questions.

  3. Hello HG,

    As I’ve been reading your blog for several years now, something keeps coming to my attention.

    Even from the beginning narcs are so keen about the minute details of our lives. The questions are often intimate, introspective, and even invasive. There seems to be no boundaries. Nothing is off limits, no question presented to us is too personal, and we are required to answer. But if we are the ones that do the asking, the answers are vague or ambiguous, often just one word and sometimes only silence.

    Is this the narcissistic way of trying to seem intriguing and mysterious? (Truthfully it’s just frustrating and exhausting)

    1. Thank you for reading.

      It is not done intentionally to cultivate an air of intrigue, although that is what often happens, this approach is born out of our sense of entitlement, our lack of boundary recognition, our lack of accountability, haughtiness, lack of emotional empathy.

      1. Thank you so much for your answer. That makes sense.

        It just always seems so one-sided, and difficult to feel emotionally intimate. One would hope that both parties trust each other enough to share confidences.

        Is there also a fear of betrayal? A fear of being too vulnerable?

  4. HG , you’ve said your voice is unaltered in your YouTube videos & interviews
    However I’m wondering if your accent & general vernacular, is how you speak in your daily life
    Thanks

      1. I think your voice is the same, it’s the register which differs. Your voice is dark both in a colloquial or a more formal setting, it doesn’t lose its color and texture with different registers.

  5. Greetings HG. I see that there are things that you would not do to gain control in any given situation. You have mentioned on your blog that you would not sleep with a man, you don’t sexually abuse children and you haven’t physically attacked an intimate partner, correct?

    One of the MRNs I was engaged with recently that took a loan from me, has the underlying belief that people ought to pay what they owe/agree to. This (I think) relates to his father who committed suicide due to money matters – and him not being able to stop that in time by giving him money (he had put aside) to bail him out.

    Do you have any thoughts in regards to being able to trust a N to a degree, if you know their limitations/values, etc? I realize it doesn’t fit with your first rule of freedom and I am not suggesting we do this.

      1. HG, you said earlier, “Define trust to a degree”? I think I did above already, perhaps I wasn’t clear. Are you saying that Ns and their perceived limitations (be it façade management or personal preferences or maybe things they refuse to do given they were abused in the same way) can change, be there a need for control? So the 3 acts above that you have said you don’t engage in, might change given the circumstance/environment?

        1. Control is everything. We have a range of manipulations linked to our schools and that governs our responses.

    1. SARAHR,
      A Midranger would misinterpret events, and distort reality to appear as maintaining those “limits and values”. That’s why they suck. My son’s father doesn’t think his s**t stinks, yet still manages to try to jip me out of money, and is capable of lying and stealing.
      IF this Midranger that you speak of pays you back, he won’t see it as a repayment of a loan, be prepared for him to act like, or even tell people that he gifted you the money and that he is so nice!

      1. Thank you Anm. I think I see your point. When investing money there needs to be a win/win and I recall feeling that it was more a “win” for us, like he was doing us a favour and yet the banks were charging him more for the loan than what we did.

        When he did repay the loan, I noted that he did mention that I should have left it in his care as when I took it back and reinvested it elsewhere, it didn’t do well (I gave it to another N, ironically) so he had a chuckle over that.

  6. Dear HG,

    When reading your blogs where you’re exploring the nature of different kind of narcissists, I noticed that you elaborate a lot about the lesser narcissists, the most easy type to recognize and to deal with and to stay away from. I tried to find more about the mid range narcissists, but understandable, they are more difficult to investigate, since they differentiate more in their mindset, behavior etc. But still very interesting what you have written about it.

    As for the greater, upper narcissist, you often claim only few exist and of course you’re one of them ‘our kind’ as you put it. But you don’t elaborate much about the nature of this kind of narcissist. Is this on purpose (you don’t want to be seen trough) of is is too difficult to find a way to describe the extraordinary gifts of the greater narcissist?
    Or maybe, you’re just one of of a kind and don’t want to share the status of number one greater narcissist with anyone else?
    Or, is the difference between mid range and upper, just that an upper is aware of his inner life and knows what is driving him, so he can use his manipulation tools more effective and on purpose. This last remark undermines the idea that narcissist react on ‘instinct’ to protect their inner life, and when you manipulate aware and on purpose you’re no longer a narcissist…. ?

    I would love to know more about the ways the greater are manipulating, getting what they want, how they get away with it and how they perceive the world around them. I know, a lot you have mentioned, but not as extensive as you did with the lower or mid range. Of course I would like to know how to recognize the upper kind. If I ever could, as just a normal human being.

    1. There is plenty of material demonstrating the way a Greater Narcissist operates and how a Greater thinks.
      It is not upper, it is Greater. Upper is a sub school, such as Upper Lesser.

  7. 1. Why did you decide to use your mind only?
    2. Do you know that the mind = emotions and they are limited? Is it just some fuel: fear, shame, anger, pride, regret, apathy? Do you know that there is a list of emotions and feelings with their numerical values.
    3. Do you know that the first thing that appears in the womb of her child is the heart? The heartbeat in the study shows that pregnancy has started. This means that the brain and back develop later.
    4. Do you know that the mind (brain) is just a record as in the tape of our history in the form of emotions and traumas and when you use only the mind, you really play back the past?
    5. Do you know what you need to use to live now and not in the past?
    6. Do you know that freedom is a choice?
    7. Do you know that the lack of choice is slavery?
    8. Do you know that using only the mind (record of the past) you are in bondage to your past?
    9. Do you know that by making no other choice now than from your mind, you are designing your past for your future?
    10. Do you know that because of this you do not live your life, but only play tape? So you’re really not here right now?
    11. Who do you think programmed your mind and brain?

    1. 1. I do not use just my mind. My fingers typed this response, directed by my mind, my eyes payed a part as well, along with nerve endings, my lungs, my blood, my heart and so on.
      2. My kind have limited emotions. I have always stated this.
      3. Actually it is the anus. So everybody starts off as an arsehole. Some remain that way.
      4. The mind is more than just a recording device.
      5. For the majority of our kind it is all about the now.
      6. Indeed, I grant it every day.
      7. Or shopping in a poor supermarket.
      8. Incorrect.
      9. Really. Oh I will go and use someone else’s mind then. Thanks for the tip.
      10. Tapes went out years ago. I stream now.
      11. Deep Blue.

      1. Hg this reminded me of a question I have for you. The majority of ppl , around age 10-12, develop an inner “Narrator” that speaks constantly. (Some call this “thinking”) Many believe this inner voice IS them, but I digress

        Q: do you have an inner Narrator?
        Ty

          1. Whose voices/influences are they? ie mother/father/God/self

            Do you relive conversations with others in your head, situations from the past?

          2. Which voices/influences are you referring to, BO (I do not see the previous comment in my moderation pane).

            I remember things, naturally.

          3. A previous poster had asked you about the inner voice/narrator that people in general have. You had responded that you have three tracks going. I was wondering who those voices/narrators are for you?

          4. All of my thoughts are me talking to someone else (conversation). It’s always me thinking ahead and there’s someone else I’m ‘talking’ to and my perception of what they’re going to say back and it banters back and forth. Does anyone else think this way? It’s always how my thoughts have been. I’ve asked others before and never has anyone understood what I meant. Of course if I’m writing something, or praying it’s different, there’s the intended audience, but when my mind is just going it at it’s always been a dialogue of sorts. Anyone else know what I’m talking about?

          5. You’re not alone mpathetick.

            The thinking/pondering-voice inside my head is many times the voice of a person I talked to recently, maybe a coworker with whom I’m currently involved with a project, a friend, etc. It can be some Loudmouth narcissistic man.

            It doesn t have to be a narc, most often it’s the voice of a Super empath friend (I know 3 or 4). Someone interesting.
            “I mean are you Sure you really like this meeting Cat B? Idk. You deserve better” Thoughts like that usually have the voice of a super e friend.

          6. Cat b

            I think the voice of someone interesting you hear is your own. Your logical thinking clamouring to be heard. You should listen to it. It is protecting you and is the very best of all of your friends.

          7. Oh, I know 5, NarcAngel

            Well, yes, it is true, my inner self making those thoughts which I ascribed to “hearing wise friend”. It’s a strong experience, being myself.

          8. mpathetick I know exactly what you’re describing. I do it, too. I talk to ppl from the past (maybe I dreamed about them and it triggered unresolved conflict), present-day situations, and I analyze the conversations in my head with such detail… It’s neurotic and annoying, but if I write it all down it can be cathartic (even if I throw it away).

            HG, if you have three tracks and they are all you: are you being facetious? If not, how are the three tracks separated (what differentiates them)?

          9. Yes that’s imagination, creating future conversations in order to prepare yourself ie trying to control the future.

            I used to do it a lot many years ago.

            Right now I have a voice that speaks as “ I “ ,(“ I gotta do this”) , one that speaks as “You” (“You gotta do this”), a position as some kind of witness to both, and general residency as the backdrop that it all plays out on/in.

            HG do your three narrators all speak at once or take turns? Do you identify as any of the speakers?

          10. What is your interpretation of what’s “hearing” the 3 voices ? Do they speak continuously or do you get pauses, and where do you reside in the pauses if so?

          11. Ok I’ve done an internet search for “triple track” can’t find anything. I found something on audio “double tracking” used with music etc. I’ve looked for a definition to help me understand this before, but still find nothing
            Can you further explain or expand ?

    2. Mija,
      3. Yes, the heart is the first ORGAN that develops for a fetus, but actually, the brain and spinal cord gets a head start before the heart.
      The heart beat does indicate a “viable pregnancy”, but usually doesn’t happen until around 6-7 weeks of the actual pregnancy.
      I could be wrong. I drank and did drugs a lot while studying biology.

      1. Speaking of which, in regards to fetal brain development, if a woman wants to boost the brain development for her children, and help them to become smarter, women need to eat walnuts and listen to Mozart while pregnant. Walnuts are abundant with the omega fatty acids that nourishes the brain; listening to mozart activates all parts of the brain, but stimulates the left hemisphere in the same way that mathematics do.
        It works, my children are both smart. Though their narc fathers take all of the credit.

  8. Here goes nothing… I have read many of your articles, and books… I see what people write and I have noticed I have very black and white thinking. I get that people are always looking for a justification as to why others are “good or bad” However I dont think that way. I tend to think people are what they are and that is it. No justification needed. However I have also noticed I have an addiction to narcs. I absolutely love the rush and I get a huge kick out of “finally” getting them to break or bend. Once I feel I have control I get bored and the relationship ends. I cant relate to the empaths… I “care” about people but I am able to separate my heart from my mind.
    I dont think I am a narc either because I read your article … and if you have to ask yourself if you are a narc then you are not the narc. So what am I?

    1. Mystery eyes,
      Being emotionally unavailable does not necessarily make you a narcissist. People who have black and white thinking usually don’t realize they are experiencing black and white thinking. It’s sounds more like you are detached, or using the dopamine rush of dating a narcissist as a drug to feel good about yourself.
      Do you actually idealize, devalue, and hoover the people you date, or is it just a whatever thing to keep your boredom in check, and distract you from what’s really going on with your life?

  9. HG,
    A few questions, Sir:

    1A) In regard to thinking of others as objects, for those who have been on the site for awhile, do you think of us in terms of what Empath you think/know we are, when our name pops up? 1B) Does it affect how you interact with us?
    2) Do you ever type replies out — but delete them, out of an abundance of caution – or for other reasons (If other reasons, what are they)?
    3) How do you feel (how does it affect you) when Empaths on the site break NC?
    4) If you had to be either an Empath or a “Normal,” which would you choose?
    5) BESIDES fuel, what’s the one thing you like/are fond of (or can respect) about Empaths?
    6) How many questions could I ask before you got tired of me asking questions?

    1. 1a. Some.
      1b. No.
      2. Sometimes, clarity of expression.
      3. I am unsurprised.
      4. Neither.
      5. Their residual benefits.
      6. How many do you think it would be?

      1. HG,
        In answer to your question, I think you will answer *my* questions to “infinity and beyond”…as long as I keep them narcissism-related or about you…now back to YOU again (first set of questions are for fun, about your preferences):
        1) Oceans or lakes?
        2) Steak or Lobster?
        3) Weeping Willows or Palm Trees?
        4) Motorcycles or Hummers?
        5) Champagne or wine?
        6) Hardwood floors or plush carpet?
        7) Daybreak or twilight?
        8) Strawberries or peaches?
        9) Vanilla or chocolate?
        10) What is the worst advice your mother gave you?
        11) What is the best advice your father gave you?

        🤔

          1. HG,
            Oh, I see how this is gonna go…so I shall change tactics, as I ponder my next set of questions. I’m traveling, so I have a lot of time to ponder.

            However, you neglected to answer my last two questions…would you like me to repeat them? Or are you disregarding them for narcissistic reasons?

          2. HG,
            Will you pretty please answer my questions as though you are ALONE…and it’s just about your personal taste, with no consideration of fuel or narc benefit?

            #WhatItLooksLikeRightBeforeANarcDeniesYourRequest

          3. 1.) Does it make you proud if an Empath seizes the power thanks to your work or is it no different to when they break no contact despite your best efforts with them?
            2.) If you help an Empath escape their Narcissist, do you perceive that as asserting control over said narcissist?

          1. Not that this is relevant, but since I’m psychotic — and NOT off-topic — did you know a very small percentage of the population don’t taste chocolate the way the majority do? It’s a genetic thing. One of my guy friends HATES chocolate, same as his Mom does…it tastes absolutely wretched to him. He’s tried to describe to me what he tastes, and I’ve tried to describe what I taste — totally different/pretty wild.

      2. *Raises hand*

        I also have a question. It might be presumptuous for me to think you have the answers but I will give it a stab for the sake of trying, even if it makes me look like a d%^#k.

        Why do you think your grandiose and superiority characteristics confront me while others here are pleased by them? I am thinking it has something to do with my element of martyrdom/victim cadre (which you would feel equally unattracted to) and that of my MRN father who didn’t allow that kind of talk. Furthermore it probably interferes with my sense of equality.

          1. Envy is wanting something someone else has.
            Jealousy is fearing the loss of something you have.

            “John was envious of his neighbours new copy of Manipulated by HG Tudor.”
            “John was jealous his girlfriend was talking to HG Tudor at the opening to Tudor Tower for over an hour.”

          2. Hg, thanks for pointing out I have a narcissistic trait of envy. 😉 I also have the N trait of revenge, hate (not so bad as I get older) and I could possibly be labelled with the lessors anger management issue.

            The above is why I think that the abuse is what triggers the NPD and it’s not necessarily the N that is always dishing it out but the *programmed* parent is doing this in a narcissistic fashion.

        1. Narc Noob,
          Speaking only for myself, I’m not “pleased” by his grandiosity talk …but it doesn’t bother me. He’s a narcissist, so I expect it. Sometimes it even amuses me, depending. I know he is not superior to anyone, so that doesn’t bother me.

          The only time I (personally) get annoyed by the Resident Narcissist, is when I feel like he’s trying to clamp down on me, which may be real — or may be more my own sense of self, due to my own combo of traits — and also due to the prior FR I had with a narc…in other words, I maybe extra sensitive to it. For instance, HG just told me I was “off topic,” when I said I was “psychic,” which was a joke that pertained directly to his previous comment.

          That annoyed me. 😂

          I’ll be over it in 17 minutes though.

          1. I didn’t say you were off topic. You interpreted that. I made a joke, but you missed it.

          2. Oh, sorry — then I take back my annoyance, HG… that unsettled feeling you get when you’re annoyed by a narcissist when the narcissist wasn’t being offensive…maybe check yourself, Missy Empath.😂

            What is (ot) then???🤔

          3. I will let you work it out, it will give you something to do rather than ask me questions!

          4. Caroline is fine
            I read that as HG inserting ot into the word psychic to make a joke about psychotic.

          5. Okay, HG…you have your little chuckle at my expense…but the next batch to you will be 50 in-depth questions about your (gulp!) mother. 😲

            No, I can’t do it. I’ll let it go…and yes, your “ot” was clever/funny. 😎

          6. NA
            I was going to say Who’s the cool cat who’s going to figure this out?, lol. How purrfect that it was you!!

        2. Hi Narc Noob? What do you know about the martyr cadre? You called it martyr/victim cadre, does that mean we have victim mentality? I have a tiny bit of martyr cadre in my ED and I can’t find info about it. Where did you get the info on it?

    2. 4) I asked HG that question too Caroline. I seem to recall that HG’s answer was that he’d prefer to be a victim N than any kind of empath. I have to say his response shocked me somewhat! But then HG is full of surprises as we know!

      1. Hi, Alexis~
        I’m insulted by his answer — insulted, I tell you! 😂 Nah, he just has no idea how glorious it is to be an Empath.🙌

          1. I’m so glad to see you’re analyzing our uniqueness & appreciating our amazing strengths, through our comments to your inbox and on the site. Thank you for the recognition of all about us that is glorious, HG.
            😂

        1. DW Caroline he didn’t really!

          I suspect that if he had to choose, given that his favourite type is a Magnet SE he would opt for this. It allows him to still have some strong N traits and maintain that magnetic appeal yet experience our delicious emphatic traits too, which we know he is curious about.

          1. Yep, agree Alexis…I figured that would be his preferred empath to be. But I really wanted him to choose between normal or that type of empath…because that could end up being a bit revealing/interesting.

            So, of course, he didn’t specify.
            😛

          2. HG,
            The question implies that it’s a “if you HAD to be one/HAD to choose” question…it’s simply pretend play. No pretend play today?

            BTW, I hate to be understanding…but I do get why you don’t want to start asking a bunch of personal preference questions, because where would it end…

            Bunny slippers or moccasins?
            Calluses or bunions?
            Red, black or pink bras? <on women, not you…just anticipating.
            😂

          3. I share in your disappointment too! Let’s make him a LLVN – that will teach him not to choose!

          4. Well, all the empaths clubbed together to transfer ownership.

            Now that we own you, we made that choice on your behalf.

          5. CIF
            “Bunny slippers or moccasins?
            Calluses or bunions?
            Red, black or pink bras? <on women, not you…just anticipating."

            Boxers or briefs?

            It's been asked and answered on the blog… 🙂

        1. Lorelei, (pretty name btw)

          I agree they are pathetic. I’m glad I’m not alone in that opinion.

          Although I did not know what a narcissist was until after I left him, his victim-hood was one of the reasons I left him. That and lack of sex. I didn’t really leave him due to the abuse, silent treatments or many discards. That might be a sad reflection on me. Although that treatment always engendered anger in me rather than sadness (as many things do – I rarely cry), I just ignored it all and continued with my life knowing he would be back. Until I had enough, left him and blocked him from all contact.

          I recognized his victim mentality immediately. After one of his pity parties I said to him; “I get it J, you are a victim, you are a victim of life, you are the perpetual victim. Then you should just lie down and die!”

          Another time I said “I get it. Being you sucks. Go drown yourself then”. That might seem very harsh of me, but I started to realize that I was always his shoulder to lean on but he would never be mine. I said that with anger and contempt so I guess I was giving him fuel. I was hoping to get through to him that he wasn’t a victim in certain circumstances of life, but just a person facing challenges.

          My anger toward him never seemed to be an issue with him. I now understand why. Because it was fuel.

          Thank you for the opportunity to vent that. I appreciate being able to share parts of my story.

    3. hahaha Caroline this was shocking to me, because i came here to ask same questions (1a and 1b)
      it’s wonderful

      1. Ceyceyc,
        And I felt the urge to reply to your post right before you came to this thread…I AM psychotic, er, I mean psychic, HG! 😁

        This is a bit of a crazy and wild thread, ceyceyc.😂

        1. should i be scared? hahah…impressive !

          my ex once told me he felt like that I was “a walking question mark” after him.( i asked too much and he hated that.) i laughed so much to this idea(he hated this also haha) and i decided to find a question mark costume. i will… and i’m gonna chase him with my costume, saying “booooo” . your questions remind me this – why your comments always remind me something?! ahaha-

          maybe i should find one for you too. we can run together with our questions hehe

          1. Ceyceyc,
            A question mark costume – I truly love it!

            With HG, I need to take a different approach, if I ask him more questions. I pretty much know what he won’t answer – and also what he’ll answer in the same type of way. So my little mind is churning for the most perfect questions…😂 The problem, for me, is there is always going to be my Empath way of wanting to relate, which influences what I ask…then there is how a narcissist chooses to interact/present info…which we know is all wrong. 😂

            I take that back. I’m pushing it…even for me.🤐 The truth is that HG’s looking to educate and reinforce concepts…not answer if he wears bunny slippers. <In defense of myself, I'm not curious about that!

        2. Caroline,
          “I pretty much know what he won’t answer – and also what he’ll answer in the same type of way.”

          hmm i think i understand what you mean. when i send a question or read someone else’s question i can guess if he will answer or not. on the other hand, unlike yours, i can’t stop asking questions which will never be answered because i’m still at ” my ex will never hoover me, my ex ignores me…” stage. also, 1 $= 5,72 Lira in here. with this calculation ; my salary is 600 $. paypal is no available. in this situation i can’t ask detailed information . so i ask very desperate questions
          I think these questions are boring, even for me. if he gets tired of me, i can’t blame him haha. and as a teacher, i admire him.i am going crazy with 30 students sometimes, he’s trying to answer many questions from many people from many countries.

          i am not sure if it is a idiom, but i couldn’t imagine HG with bunny slippers hahah

          1. Ceyceyc,
            You know what I say? I say “You be you”…however that is! Every single human being is special and cannot be replaced. That is why, for me, it is a shame that some narcissists seem to have developed because they did not feel they could be themselves — harm would come — so they put up a defense shield that eroded their very core. That is my own simplified way of expressing it — not necessarily how HG would. But I find it sad that narcissists felt no safe harbor to develop their inner core.

            So I say that you ask as many questions as you want…the ones you want…the way you want.💚 It matters not what the reaction is to that…it matters that you are true to yourself. Yes? 😉

        3. Caroline
          i don’t know if you are psychotic-psychic 🙂 but i can see that you are amazing <3
          after 153 days, i feel much better. I come here mostly when I am confused, for to read the "bitter truths".
          but your comments make me feel strong, make me smile. It's exciting to share something with people who i don't meet face to face, miles away from me. thank you so much

          and: yess !!!

  10. Also have been studying the levels of narcissists…I do believe this narc is mid-range though have not drawn a finer bead on him (lower, middle or greater/upper)
    I believe I am a super-empath with the requisite narcissistic streak, leaning into that & my years of training as a scientist & lawyer (dispassionate logical thinking) to get this narc gone. The logical approach is something I find a lot more comfortable than an emotional one (though at one point I felt sorry for the narc, I clearly see the futility of that).

  11. sorry if it was asked before

    how do you know all of these ? i mean, you can understand your kind and their patterns but you can also understand empahts and their behaviours. everything in your words are beyond the theoretical knowledge and your own life.
    for example ; i read an article about the mid-range. your examples of conversations amaze me. -as if you read the messages between me and my ex- and you are not a mid-range

    how did you observe the other schools? when did you create hierarchies of fuel/ schools etc? when did you discover them?

    of course i admire your intelligence but i think there is more than that.

  12. HG, what does it mean when a mid range narcissist says “I don’t love you and you’re not the right person for me, but I’ll still be here for you in spite of that”?

    1. I am keeping control of you by provoking you whilst maintaining my facade and causing you to try to cause me to love you and realise that you are the right person for me. I am creating confusion, unfairness and shifting sands which means you are easier to control and I gain fuel also.

      1. And maybe “I’m dabbling w a potential fresh source but let’s keave the door open for a Hoover” ?

  13. Have you written anything on the aging narcissist and/or the decline of his/her physical health (i.e. developing chronic and/or potentially life threatening illnesses like cancer, diabetes, COPD, etc)?

    Am currently dealing with a narc who is a senior citizen (68) & I know it sounds terrible to have to doubt his veracity but given how many lies I have uncovered, were you in my shoes, you would be foolish not to suspect everything he says, so he alleges he has Stage 3 colon cancer.

    It has been a strictly online acquaintance / connection (though if you ask him it was a ‘relationship’ but obviously I have been toppled from my pedestal) so of course I have not bothered with confirming the veracity of his latest ‘crisis’. He thankfully is not a relative, just a guy online who tried to work his narc machinations upon me & no I never felt anything for him but pity.

    I had implemented No Contact with my very 1st discard (in a phone call, he spoke of himself having ‘honor’ or being ‘honorable’ and I swear I could not help myself I burst out laughing at that absurdity & so he hung up on me marking my very first discard, yay me!). My glorious 1st respite lasted a bit over 3 months then surprise!

    Wednesday, I got a ~15 minute ‘divine accidental’ phone call from him & he couldn’t wait to tell me about his upcoming radiation treatment. He has been freaking out about this maybe being a ‘hernia’, then ‘colon cancer’ since March, behaving in a manner that I would call ‘flaky’ (as basically my entire maternal lineage were down-winders. aka people exposed to Post WWII above-ground nuclear testing and 100% of them contracted at least 1 form of cancer, I know well how most cancer patients behave, plus I am a recovering research scientist, so no I am not the best candidate to try & hoodwink around cancer & its treatment).

    I have resumed No Contact but I figure he of course will call again because cancer treatment is no picnic.

    Anyway was wondering if you (or others) have insight and/or advice for dealing with the older chronically physically narcs out there (beyond No Contact)?

    1. Hello SVOI, please see the two articles The Aging Naricissist Parts One and Two and if you require specific input with regard to your situation, please organise a consultation.

      1. Saw these 2 posts after I posted my comment but from further digging around in your blog I think the narc I am dealing with is either a mid-range or greater elite, so the victim/lesser/somatic descriptions might not fit him all that well. From my knowledge of him, he is less crude, obvious & violent and more educated than the lesser, he is not strictly somatic (though he is a preening peacock, into fashion not strictly crude working out or body-building), and he is on record as *despising* victims and weakness generally, I believe it would horrify him to ever identify as being one down, taken advantage of etc.
        It might be fruitful for you to consider continue writing in that series as so many people globally generally are aging and/or developing chronic health issues which and I am sure aging and poor physical health cannot help but affect the dynamics between, narcs, normals & empaths.

          1. If a narc despises weakens, yet goes on about his potential cancer, would that be a mid range move?

    2. Dear So Very Over It,
      Fortunately, your friend is someone you met on line ….. easy to get rid of
      I would NEVER tolerate someone hanging up on me …..that would be THE END
      He’s not your problem …. let his family deal with it
      He will just drain you mentally
      There IS …..beyond no contact
      It’s called GET OUT STAY OUT
      BLOCK HIM
      Sorry my lovely
      Luv Bubbles xx 😘

      1. He is now better blocked (was napping & forgot to turn the ringer off on my landline phone) All my calls go to answering machine & have just contacted my phone company to block his numbers.
        His only other option to reach me now is 3rd parties…working on that too.

        1. Dear So Very Over It,
          Congratulations and well done
          You will now have piece of mind
          You won’t regret your decision
          Good luck with it all
          Luv Bubbles xx 😘

          1. Bubbles I also have some ‘insurance’ against the narc (a lot of records of our communications with dates, times etc) & have mailed items that belong to him to his still legally married wife (of course I did not include my contact information).
            So no obvious ties left, no loose ends as far as I know.

          2. Dear So Very Over It,
            Haha… its always good to have back up evidence with narcs … just in case….. leaves them speechless when you throw it back in their face …. then they go off and sulk n won’t talk to you …..hilarious !
            …We are involved with aging narcs … the lastest, our 88 year old victim narc just accused Mr Bubbles n myself of theft, we weren’t even there when this theft occurred!
            I believe he has short term memory loss but admits to nothing …. he still has his wits about him and defiantly independent
            He found his wallet….. where he left it !
            No apology, as to be expected … typical !
            Narcs ….. they’re truly a breed on their own…. haha
            I highly recommend Mr Tudor’s books …. they’re a must !
            Luv Bubbles xx 😘

          3. Dear Bubbles,
            I hope you don’t mind but I would love to use your comment to practice my lessons.

            Correct; narcissists do not like evidence/facts because it challenges their sense of superiority and entitlement. This makes them feel a lack of control (attacked), which results in a manipulative response (a sulk; pity play) to deflect from their behaviour. Fuel is acquired, possibly from multiple streams for contrast, and control and superiority is maintained.

            Accused of theft when you weren’t even there! Ha ha ha…that’s some fantastic gas lighting. You and Mr. Bubbles must have some excellent magical powers. His accusation most likely got him proximate and thought fuel while smearing you for good measure.

            Irrespective of memory, he will not accept fault and his memory “issues” will conveniently be used for blame shifting and pity plays to distract from HIS behaviour.

            Who’s the one who is sleight of hand in this scenario. (this could be construed as projection)

            Right again; he won’t apologize because that would cede control and superiority by shutting down the fuel lines and that ain’t happening. All is well in Narc Land.

            That was great, thank you Bubbles!
            Luv K xoxox

          4. Dearest K,
            I enjoy your lessons, I’m learning from you as well
            Get this ……
            He rang us today to see if we coming over for drinks tomorrow
            I asked if he had put his wallet in a safe place
            He replied “how did you know about my wallet? ”
            I said “you rang n told me, then accused us of taking it”
            – deathly silence for 5 seconds
            He then replied “well you know I’m a dumb arsed half brain nitwit”
            😂
            Luv Bubbles xx 😘

          5. Dearest Bubbles,
            My pleasure and thank you for allowing me to practice after-the-fact.

            Ha ha ha…LMAO! Is he really a dumb arsed half brain nitwit. Ha ha ha…he’s gas lighting again. Well, we all know what he is so the gas light effect isn’t as bad.

            To summarize:
            1. You received a benign hoover in the 4th sphere (telephone).
            2. Your question: I asked if he had put his wallet in a safe place, may have been perceived as challenge fuel.
            3. He feels a lack of control, which results in a manipulative response: “how did you know about my wallet? (compartmentalization, reset button and gas lighting).
            4. More Challenge fuel:“you rang n told me, then accused us of taking it” (holding him accountable).
            5. He is being attacked and deploys a Silent treatment. (first line of defence: denial)
            6. Second Line of Defence: he distracts and deflects by blame shifting it onto you AND his brain with this statement: “well you know I’m a dumb arsed half brain nitwit”

            Ha ha ha…that was a phenomenal hoover! Thank you.

            Luv K xoxox

          6. Dearest K,
            You’re dissection skills are phenomenal 😱
            Thank you my lovely K 😍
            Luv Bubbles xx 😘

  14. HG,
    Apologies, I already asked them but I will combine them here in one place.
    1. Why do I feel the need to think of you as caring for us and empathizing? it isn’t necessary for you to be good at what you do.
    2. Have you considered creating an affiliated program. or authorized dealer. Something like that of your work?
    3. also a forum would be good. which you could thread the comments better.
    4. How do I escape in my situation? You know I tried.
    5. Are you in love or ever been in love?
    6. If not do you feel the desire to ever know what it feels like?
    7. Is it possible he feels some love for me? My narc?
    8. I never figured out who the shield maiden is to you?

    1. 1. You are an empath. See answer provided on another comment.
      2. My readers already assist in this regard.
      3. That would present too great a risk to the integrity of this place and its readers owing to the subject matter and who it attracts.
      4. https://narcsite.com/private-audio-consultation/
      5. No.
      6. No, it is unnecessary and from where I stand it causes far too many problems.
      7. No, that is Emotional Thinking.
      8. She is my girlfriend and she is amazing.

      1. that made me smile thank you Mr. Tudor. i am glad she is amazing. It may not be love in an empaths way of thinking but, it is something special indeed. I wish you all the best of luck

  15. I have a question. I believe I might be working with a narcissist. He never respond to texts or voice mails. Sometimes he won’t even pick up the phone. Emails are often ignored as well. When I see him face to face he is always friendly, responsive and even helpful. Can you tell me why?

    1. 1. You first should establish whether he is a narcissist – organise a Narc Detector Consultation.
      2. If he is a narcissist, his failure to respond to texts, emails, voicemails (which I assume are being sent in a work context and not a romantic one?) is about his sense of entitlement, lack of empathy and lack of accountability which are manifestations of his need for control. He feels no obligation to answer or reply, he does not care how that makes you feel and he is unconcerned about the impact on you. He may well be occupied with other individuals in his fuel matrix and therefore HE has no need to engage with you.
      3. He is friendly to your face because then HE feels a need to engage with you for the purposes of control, gaining fuel, fulfilling The Prime Aims. His narcissism will blind him to this contradictory behaviour through the Twin Lines of the Narcissist’s Defence.

        1. A383. Indeed. It is quite so astonishing. HG Tudor`s workplace knowledge has prevented me from feeling hostility over the wrong things and from the wrong people at work, so many times. I was becoming upset at work, when it really was not necessary, and not upset at work when I should have been, and I could have taken defensive and preventative actions, but I was unaware of and puzzled about how to balance it all out. Swinging blindly at pinatas, I called it. Just absolutely astonishing, these workplace breakdowns! Bravo.

      1. It felt like a mind game. It was all so confusing to me. This helps!
        Thank you for clarifying.

      2. Also, HG, might a narc want pity when he does not reply because he is so overwhelmed with emails? That’s what happened to me, though I am not sure he is a narc. It remains to be seen whether things change now that I spoke to him about it (he asked me to call him rather than email).

          1. I sent two emails today and he answered both. I had to call him today also and he picked up the phone. Usually he let’s it go to voicemail. By the way, the responses were pleasant. I give up!

    2. I have one of those too, BLT. I do not know if he is a narcissist but I am trying to stay on my toes.

        1. They are often very particular about their facade so I try to bring these things up on weekly work meetings.
          “Um. I sent you an email on Monday?”

          Then they are usually superquick to answer, in front of everybody.

          Hope this resolves soon for you, BLT

          1. Yes, that does help. Someone else suggested I copy his boss. Which I may have to start doing.

      1. SMH and BLT
        They can blow hot and cold, up/down, push/pull, nice/mean, seduction/devaluation. It keeps you confused, in situ and pumping out fuel.

        1. K and BLT, I just spent two solid weeks with work narc. 16 hours a day. He might have some mild ego issues and an unusual leadership style but he’s a great person and absolutely not a narc, so I’ll have to find another name for him. I do think we are kind of fascinated with each other – maybe smitten – but we had to keep a lid on it because he is married and it is a work situation (so smitten happens).

          HG, why is the site white on black? Or is that just my monitor? It’s very hard for me to read.

          1. SMH
            That’s good news but, just in case, keep an eye on him. You could be painted white and in seduction.

          2. K and PSE,

            Thanks for the input, warnings and support. Nothing will happen before next year because…I am leaving again! Ha. That is what I do. I did it to MRN and I am doing it again! Work narc and I do not see each other every day anyway because we are not in the same division.

            Work narc did go out of his way for me and gave me special attention during the time that we were together. I imagine the others gossiped a bit. But he now has a good picture of me – literally – I don’t know what he did with it but he took one and I hope it’s good! – and figuratively. He is not going to mistake kindness for weakness the way MRN did.

            Unlike MRN’s wife, work narc’s does work, and in a classic caring profession. But normal or narc, I do suspect that he is either having an affair or had one because of a work dinner we all had months ago. I found out that the woman hanging all over him – who pivoted towards me at a different table, looked me right in the eye and gave me a sort of warning smile – was not his wife. I will not let him triangulate me in any way, shape or form, and will remain romantically out of reach. But I will be his friend and support him as long as he does the same for me, which he has done.

            PSE, I did experience a lot of what you say via MRN and IPPS and I also know your situation. I am sorry that you learned the hard way. I did too once. I normally steer clear of men I work with. The only time I did not, it turned into a disaster after five years together, with a lot of collateral damage, and it wasn’t even an affair. Basically, that guy was afraid I was more successful than he was, that I was restless and not going to stick around, and he was right. But what he did during and after our break up was utterly unforgivable and he is probably the only one of my exes that I really, really hate.

          3. SMH. ALERT: Just because a male is not technically a Narcissist, does not mean he does not have any game as a male. Remember, SMH, there is a spectrum, and moving slowly is your best friend. And I learned the hard way, even though I am a little miss careful type, because the workplace proximity sunk me, so to speak. So, although I am not enticed by lovebombing, because of my cultural upbringing, I did not know to BE CAREFUL about the workplace. There is a reason that most men of means did not want their women working outside the home with other men, for so many decades, but it became an economic necessity for a 2 worker/earner household, or whatever it is called, because of economic changes. Men love the workplace intrigue and the women all about. Not just Narcissist males. All males, practically, and, many men wisely did not want their women to be enticed by other men in the work environment. And this is not news. In your case this guy has all the advantages of having you at the workplace, with none of the effort, SMH. He does not have to look for you or take you anywhere or make plans with you, in order to see you, or call you at home and at noon to say Hi, and to court you, because you are already there, fresh, dressed and pressed. It is sooooooo easy for him. Toooooooo easy. I know for the future to be careful of workplace, introductions, familial and any other easy, high proximity, low lovebombing scenario. Even with normal men. Be careful! Even with `normal` men. Also, an affair often brings strength to a marriage. The wife receives a sort of a break from the emotional and sexual demands of her husband, and has a bit more time for her own self care, and to go the spa, and to catch up on her reading, and read shiny magazines with her tea, while the various mistresses become drained, worn out and depressed over time, waiting for a promotion that may or may not happen. The mistresses fall in love and then desire to topple the wife, even if the mistress does not start out feeling that way. Trouble. I doubt it`s this guy`s first rodeo. And these normal men usually do not leave their wives, no matter how they denigrate her to the mistress, even if what they say is true or not about the wife, as much as Narcissist men do. Normal men basically want to make as decent a living as they can, and keep their head low, and go through life as easily as possible. Mistresses for them come and go, and the wife stays on the throne, whether or not she knows of her husband’s extra activities. And the wife receives his pension also when he retires, while the mistress is left with memories, usually. I just had to disengage from everyone I know, because of the various tentacles all over the place that I had not counted with this work entanglement. It is horrible It is so sad. So many people I have to disengage from because I made such a stupid mistake, SMH. People that I wanted to start a business with. I really harmed myself. I know you have the facts about your workplace and I do not. I want you to be careful, even of normal guys: They Got Game To.

          4. SMH: I was looking at your sentences and these stand out: (1) I just spent two solid weeks with work narc. 16 hours a day. (2) Work narc did go out of his way for me and gave me special attention during the time that we were together. SMH: ATTENTION: Pick Up Artist guys discuss this very thing as sentence number one and sentence number two: Spend as much time with a woman as often as possible to create quick intimacy. One example they give: is to take a woman on a specific date, like to the movies, and then to dinner, and then stop off at the drugstore for anything at all, and next perhaps take her to a place to look around or something, and all those different places will add up to 4 dates in the woman’s mind, although the man does all this in one date. 4 dates of intimacy in the woman’s mind from just one date! I feel embarrassed to say this, but HG has heard it all, so here goes: in this pick up scenario, if a woman says she will have sex after 3 dates with a man, she will feel like she has had 4 dates according to this strategy of taking her to 4 different places on the same day, in her mind. And, she will be tempted to have sex with guy on this same date, that feels like 4 dates to her, emotionally. So do not trust your romantic emotional thinking. 2 SOLID WEEKS of 16 HOURS DAYS is maybe a year of knowing this guy emotion wise. Keep an eye on yourself, regarding this guy, when you return. Your emotional thinking could be feeling a year’s worth of intimacy with this guy, already. 16hs X 14 days =224 hours. For example, say if you dated this guy: If you saw this guy one hour a week for a year, it would only be for 52 hours. If you saw this guy 4 times a week for an hour for a year, it would only be 208 hrs! See the problem? Yes? You have spent 224 hours already with this guy. My point is that you saw a lot of this guy physically and emotionally. I repeat: You saw a lot of this guy, already, in a very condensed and immersive scenario, ok? Forewarned is forearmed.

          5. PSE, I am giggling, though I hear your warning and that is a very interesting analysis. I never thought of it that way. You are right of course but it was a work trip and not deliberate on his part. However, guess what? Right after I told a friend tonight that he never emails when his underling can do it, he emailed me. Tonight. It could have waited until the work day tomorrow.

            In any case, I am not letting him control me. He is married so he cannot have me. I am also leaving and we will not see each other for months unless a travel thing comes up. I sure will not let him do what MRN did, which was to keep me e-tethered for months while I was away so that I was always thinking about him. But MRN and I were already romantically involved and married work guy (MWG?) and I are not.

            I am grateful that I can write about this here and get input, so thank you for yours very much!!

          6. SMH: Oh my. Have you forgotten what makes the workplace so dangerous? Proximity. Easy Proximity, remember? I see proximity all over this sentence that you wrote: `it was a work trip and not deliberate on his part.` SMH: So he had the proximity without the effort and deliberation. Good for him. And for this work trip you have bestowed 224 hours of your essence upon this guy. Good for him. And, I know you did not use the word, smitten. I know I did not hear that. Smitten with no committment? And, he has your photo. Good for him. Why did he want your photo? Did you read Sex and the Narcissist, yet? Those photos are used in various ways. And now the unexpected email from this guy? Good for him. Remember, the workplace, according to a Poll that HG Tudor recently conducted, is the most dangerous scenario for ensnarements and entanglements. I did not know that. I wonder how and why I know it is true now, right? Well, perhaps I am hyper vigilant of the workplace now, SMH, because of what happened to me. However, so many women on here also become addicted to these guys long distance by text and stuff. Ever Presence. So be careful even though you are away from him, SMH. Because it all ignites in the mind and then the emotions and then the body, and then the emotional thinking takes the wheel and starts driving and then BOOM! `Here comes the [pain] again. ~~Annie Lenox

          7. PSE, He emailed the next morning too, though he normally makes himself very scarce on email but it has stopped now. Honestly the picture did surprise me. He stopped me, I quickly posed, he snapped. It took all of 2 seconds. I never did ask him what he did with it but I have not seen it amongst the pictures many of us took. I did post yesterday I think to SP that instead of taking him up on more drinks down the line because I owe him a few, I paid him back in cash to kind of say ‘not going to continue this.’ He wasn’t there in his office so I slipped it under his door.

            Anyway, I was just discussing him with a friend. She said ‘he’s a womanizer. Stay away.’ I said, of course, and I will. I can’t stop the work email but if he starts WhatsApping me, then I will worry.

            I did get addicted to MRN by text but that won’t happen again now that I am aware of it.

            All in all, I’d say it was a nice little flirtation and I am glad I can be interested in someone other than MRN. It was good for that.

          8. I fear it will ruin sex for me, and I don’t plan to get into another N relationship anyway, thanks to you!

          9. It will not, it will prove to be watchword to your heart (and loins).

          10. OK well between you and PSE, I guess I have to read it. Maybe today since I happen to have time this afternoon. Be ready for questions…

          11. SMH: I wrote this yesterday regarding the book and I can not believe I was able to find it or this post of yours at this point with so much posting going on: `PrincessSuperEmpath says:
            July 24, 2019 at 22:46
            Dearest HG: There was a knock on my apartment door-I opened and my book arrived: Sex and the Narcissist! The Book Cover and its Artistry and Color and Smoothness is absolutely Beautiful. The cover has that Traditional and Classical symmetry that I appreciate, along with its Esoteric topic and Cool overall presentation. Of course it would. I did like the original cover as well. I could not restrain myself, and I am already reading it, and I admire how brave you are to be so truthful about this topic, even telling us about yourself, as well. Thank you. It is just amazing to look inside the minds of other people in such a manner. I do not find the book as frightening or alarming, as some fear, rather it is more like: if one landed on another world, of course one would desire an information session and an orientation course, so to speak, to understand how people think and feel and operate on this different world, yes? The more one learns about this new world, the better life one can live. The world of the Narcissist. HG, one day, in the fullness of time, will you plan to have a question and answer session on Narcsite, or elsewhere where we can ask some questions about what we are reading in this book, and perhaps some of your other books, also? This book is a dazzling read. What a peek inside. How incredibly illuminating. I took a break from reading it to congratulate you. And, HG, I do not know how you manage it, but the book reads with that same familiar intimacy as your audios sound. BRAVO.` This is my own review of SATN. And it is all true.

          12. SMH: I could just hug you for slipping that money under the door. Hahahaha. What a wonderful way to give him a message. Hahaha. It is like you were paying to him to not have any expectations, and to not make a fuss, in the future. He probably felt sort or cheap and maybe dirty. LOL!!!! This guy’s an essence thief if not a fuel thief. Normal does not mean saint. His wife will stay on that throne all rested, and other women will accidentally fall in love with him, and the cycle continues. He gets what he needs, his wife ages slowly and the other women lose, over time, their looks, their time, their essence and their ability to engage with their own alpha male, when the opportunity avails itself. Not good at all. You were so helpful listening to me moan and weep and wail over the Narcissist and his malicious and sadistic Lieutenants, when I came on Narcsite. Thank you. I want you to win now. It is your turn to win, SMH. Land a whale. There are good men out there.

          13. LOL PSE, cheap and dirty. Well, I guess I was sending the message that *I* am not cheap and dirty. I cost a lot more than a few drinks. He has not acknowledged receipt but I don’t know if he has been in his office yet. I know he will be there today, however (I won’t be). If he doesn’t say anything by next week, I guess I won that round.

            I do hope there are good men out there but can one be an alpha without being a narc? I am not sure. This is the longest I have ever gone in my life – maybe since kindergarten 🙂 – not being in a relationship. I haven’t looked very hard – haven’t been on a date since last year, in fact.

            Anyway, thank you for all of your guidance and support, and I mean that sincerely. I know how time consuming it is to follow up on conversations. I have not even followed a post in weeks because I have not had time to get through all of them.

            Your post on SATN and HG’s insistence that I have more to fear from not reading it than from reading it, means it will be next up on my list. I hope it doesn’t ruin the good memories I have of MRN.

            I totally remember your situation. What happened with it? (Speaking of missing posts.) Did you return to that job? Has your overweight friend fallen to earth yet?

      2. SMH: I can not believe you remember. Anyway, I did not ever go back, to this very day. I guess I went SuperNova. If I saw them again, fire would have come out of my eyes, especially for those 4 malign Lieutenants. There was no longer any substantive reward to incentivise me to interact with those 5 people, any longer. I have excused myself week by week from that location. It is tedious. I had help: Bad weather, Govt. Holidays. And then good Spring weather and people only wanting to think about being outside and away from the job. Setbacks in my illness I also told them, and they gave up on me for that time, because it was a convoluted time. But, the dog days of summer came, and I guess they became bored and started hoovering. I kept message replies short without substantive info. and now no hoovering for over a week now. They wanted me back: The 4 Lieutenants do not carry those pitchforks for no reason. They say the Narcissist is happier when I am around. I wouldn’t know. They say the coterie keeps asking what happened to me. Bronchitis is my anwer. It sounds both alarming and mysterious, yes? He has a very peasant coterie. It does hurt to lose all that interaction. One of HG Tudor`s articles discusses how Narcissists do not like to engage with the ill and the sick. That is how i came up with the idea to use illness since at least 2 of the 5 have NPD. The others have high Narcissistic traits. The Narc missed my fuel. He even hoovered despite all the suppy he has. It surprised me a bit, but the pain out weighed the reward at that point. I decided that a career in the `circus` was not good for my health. Timing is everything, almost. My friend became a little curt with me in her later texts. I guess she was failing a little in her new role as enemy turn coate lieutenant and new NIPSS in my stead. Oh well. Most jobs have a learning curve. I did not provide her with the info. and cooperation for some events, that she thought she could obtain from me on behalf of the Narcissist. Plus, I kept saying I would be back in a couple of weeks and did not do so and she told me I made her look bad. But, at that time I was not really deceiving her early on, I did not realize that I would make excuses and make moves to break away. I believe that my logic duped my emotional thinking this time around. Good!!!!. But her attitude was more towards being the info gatherer for the Narc et al, I saw, as the latest NIPPS, even though in all probability she didn’t realize it, as HG informed me. She has to earn her stripes without using me to do so, however. Oh well. She is not me, but she has other good character traits and residual benefits. She will be fine and he is quite charming. Plus, early on, I pushed him on her, so I did not leave him empty handed. I am sure they have all figured out that I am not coming back to them, by now. They will be just fine, like they were before I ever entered the scene three years ago . Sadly, I am sure I have been spotted in the City and they probably can intuit that in actuality I am sort of ghosting them. I even had to change gyms and alas a peripheral coterie guy of the Narcissist is at my new gym location. Small world. I don’t talk to him even though he tried. Hopefully he can keep his mouth shut. I did not want to wound or make any enemies. I do not need that. Plus, the new gym location is 3 blocks away from my apartment, instead of near the job, so that is a reasonable change also, since they know my address. I am handling it all the best way I can, SMH, and they can not really prove why I removed myself, although they are smart enough to put some of the pieces together by now. Still not one of them has definitive proof about what really happened on my side. I prefer it this way. I took myself piece by piece away like those stage magicians, using all available distractions, and then right before their very eyes, POOF! I am not there, for a while now. I wish my former friend well. But many of us can not have it both ways. I have to let her go. Great pain. But I am much better, as you can probably tell. Even the feeling of dullness I entered into for a few months is FINALLY lifting a bit. Thanks for asking, SMH. And thank you HG not only for your directions and advice, that is working, but also for hearing our same stories over and over and over again.

        1. PSE, Of course I remember! I love your line ‘most jobs have a learning curve.’ lol. I am sorry you had to give up your friend but it sounds like you extricated yourself with the least damage possible for everyone involved. Lucky to be in a position to do that. I am too – it is easy for me to make myself scarce and still do my job. I feel for those stuck in bad work situations that they cannot avoid. Now you just have to find yet another new gym. Come to mine! It is way, way uptown (I am in the city too part of the year).

          I am beginning to wonder again about married work guy’s narc-ness because today I thought of something odd he asked me and I overheard him ask someone else. In both situations, a family member died and his response was to ask if we were close. Not, ‘I’m sorry to hear that,’ or ‘sorry for your loss’ or ‘condolences,’ but were you close? It sounded so off to me both times but maybe it has to do with narcissists not knowing how or not wanting to deal with illness or with other people’s pain. Does it strike you as odd? Also, he has not acknowledged the money even though I know he was in his office today. l wonder if he’s wounded.

          1. SMH: Of course he is hurt/wounded and surprised and insulted (his pride and intelligence is insulted because he did not expect that you would put money in an envelope for him, and make him feel sort of dirty and sort of cheap, and most men like to be in control and at least one step ahead in these scenarios. Men from an early age, as you know, are taught the power and value of money. And when and when not to spend it. And how to spend it on which type of women and for what purpose. I am positive he received the message. hahahaha. I just love it. One point for the good girls! But, men take rejection better also, because they are taught to pursue and compete and also the testerone in their body pushes them to pursue, and that is why the somatic males tend to take steroids and testosterone injections, as well. To compete and muscle out quickly and they say they feel more aggressive in the NOW, on the steroids despite the damage to themselves. In either case, Narcissist or not, the reaction of insult/rejection/surprise will wear away over time, so get ready for his comeback. And it is a workplace dangerous and proximity scenario including tech and emails. He has all the advantages including the wife and whatever women he is dallying with and setting up to dally with. Read the section on Madonna and Whore in Sex and the Narcissist. And you are on his radar, and he has nothing to lose and so much fun to gain by playing with available women. Regarding your question why they ask someone if they were close to the deceased, if he is an empath or normal, and has a touch of the trait of contagion, it is possible that he knows not to invest his emotions unnecessarily, and wipe himself out. I do the same thing, because I have a touch of the contagion and I do not want to feel more emotions than necessary. To do so would be harmful for me. And I personally need to stay griped up, most of the time, to stay in balance. If he is a Narc, I am not sure why he asks, and I would route this question to HG Tudor, in either case, empath or narcissist, why he asks if someone is close to the decease. I would route this question to HG Tudor, to receive the accurate answer. SMH, it feels so weird that you are asking me questions now, when I basically leaned on you months ago. Helping people pays off sometimes, yes? Shifting sands. hahaha. Regarding the gym, this IS the other gym! I switched from the first one because of the the entanglements. This is a small town, after all. Plus this guy never spoke to me before in Narcville. I saw him yesterday also , and now he doesn’t even say hello like he first did twice, when I said hello back and immediately walked away, twice, as well. He got the message. And I stay FAR away from him, so that he can not weasel up and ask me anything at all. In this weight class I took yesterday, he weaseled over to my side, and I did not know because I am new and this female asked him why he switched sides because she liked when he was on her side of the room. WEASEL! She blew his spot up, that nosy weasel, probably senses that something is up with me. It is. I had to change my entire life over. All he can say is that he saw me and no more info. than that at all. Anyway, let’s call this guy at your job: Workplace Gigolo. And remember, Narcissist or Narcissistic, he is looking for a good time. Good for him. Only you can answer the question, SMY< if you have time and your looks and your future to waste on Gigolo guy until he yawns about you at the precise time that you want more? If so, he is definitely your guy and the Gigolo of the workplace. I suggest you should take some quiet time and take some soothing nice bubble baths and contemplate about what type of guy you really really really want. This sort of contemplation takes work now…and time….and then when you have more of an idea of what personality type you prefer, work to be the complement of that type of guy. I wish you were taking part of HG Tudor`s Assessment Event on the TV Series Big Little Lies. It is not too late, and you can binge watch Season One and Season Two. We assess these guys, SMH! One by one. It is interesting and we learn about ourselves as well. Figure out what you really want and align yourself, but it takes work though, and then you will probably accidentally bump into each other when you least expect it. Dealing with these Gigolos does not take much work because they are not serious. And they add unnecessary mileage on women. And these Gigolos will hijack women` future and time and looks and tamper with and infect their essence that really should remain vibrant to attract the guy you can truly have a FUN future with, SMH.

          2. PSE, Thank you for all of those thoughts! Now I feel TERRIBLE about leaving money under the door since I probably completely emasculated him. If he is a narc, he is not a greater, so he wouldn’t take it as challenge fuel. I like Workplace Gigolo (WPG) as his moniker. And yes, he does have someone else – the woman who came to our work function months ago, whom he did not introduce, who threw herself at him the whole night, and who looked me right in the eye.

            WPG would not only be a bad choice because he is married and a player. Our work situation is very delicate and the two of us could make or break what we are doing. It is more important to me to be successful in our current endeavor than to risk getting involved. But I am glad that I can be interested in someone other than MRN. Gives me hope.

            A friend also met someone she is interested in but here is the difference between us: Instead of saying ‘I finally met someone I am interested in,’ which is what I would say, she said ‘I met someone who is interested in me.’ I think it is a sign of her low self esteem that she expressed herself the way she did. I am not looking for someone who is interested in me. I am looking for someone in whom I am interested.

            I have given quite some thought to it and it probably wouldn’t be WPG, even in other circumstances. He’s very funny and irreverent, and really smart, attractive. But he’s weirdly passive (maybe another sign of a midranger). He lived in the same ill fitting clothes the whole time we were away. One night suggested he change into a clean shirt for dinner (he did it). I can see it now: I would end up nagging him all the time!! Disaster!

            A lot of what you are saying – Madonna/Whore, wasting one’s time, etc, does apply to MRN. I won’t let that happen with WPG.

            I did watch the first season of BLL. But it was awhile ago and I have not had a chance to catch up with season 2. I loved it but I don’t remember all of the characters so I wouldn’t be able to contribute much to the discussion at this point but I will read that post once I have caught up.

            Yes, helping people does pay off. It’s like studying for an exam. You actually learn a lot helping someone else to prepare. I am so glad we are both free and clear of our situations. For me, it is just temporary but I will have a nice long breather.

          3. SMH. Putting that money under his door shows him that you have standards and that you understand the game, in case he were in doubt. Most men love low hanging fruit to pluck when they are not serious, or having a semi fuel crisis-(Sex And The Narcissist). Saves energy. So, perhaps Gigolo can cross your name off his little black book for such purposes. You did very well, putting that money in an envelope under the door, SMH. That was a very Professional way to carry yourself! Regarding this sentence that you wrote: [`A friend also met someone she is interested in but here is the difference between us: Instead of saying ‘I finally met someone I am interested in,’ which is what I would say, she said ‘I met someone who is interested in me. I think it is a sign of her low self esteem that she expressed herself the way she did. I am not looking for someone who is interested in me. I am looking for someone in whom I am interested `.] SMH, I think we can also consider that she may have been somewhat of a man chaser. Chasing men is not good and she has reached the point to finally find a man that pursues her first, and she still has the benefit of liking the guy… It works better if the man pursues the most, biologically, or the woman has to be the aggressor during the entire relationship, or until the man actually finds someone that keeps him more interested. She loses both ways. And she is never sure where she stands, if she is the main pursuer. And it goes against the natural order, since she has lower testosterone to keep the relationship going all the time. So, I think she is on the right track. Maybe for the first time. She has learned some lessons, it seems to me. So few men interest me, that I hide when I am so interested, or they become pompous and think they can rush me and they can not rush me. I think she also is on the right track. She has definitely encountered some relationship dynamic that did not benefit her and she is changing her mindset, I would also surmise. I hope the relationship works out for her. She may end up marrying this one. I doubt she would mention him and spend time with him, if she were not interested in him, right?. He may actually ask her for her hand in marriage. You are so right about helping people. In College/University I once was requested by the Professor over my Major to take notes during one of my classes, with pay, for a disabled man. I never met the head of my Major department before, and I never knew why I was asked to do this, and I was only a sophomore and so I was not that advanced in my mayor as well, but I agreed to do so. What choice did I have. That was the only class that I received an A+. I was so focused on taking notes for him so carefully, I also really learned that course material very well. I, of course, received the grade of an A before, but that was my one and only A+. Now that I think about it, I wonder was that A+ rigged for me? Oh my. Hahaha. I was not suspicious in those days. Maybe I did earn it. Hahaha. Wait, I did earn one other A+ during my Senior year. My fourth year. Whew! I remember staring at that first A+ grade when I received it. I was only a sophomore at that time. Second year. It looked so awesome. So you are so right about that. Helping others can benefit oneself, for sure. Is Gigolo somatic? They are weird. They love the body, but in a weird way. If they are not ON, for whatever reason, they do not really eat healthy and do become slovenly and all of that. We usually see them when they are ON. It is weird. As much as they love the body, it is really a toolkit item to obtain supply. It is a different type of body and health love than one is generally accustomed to. The fact that he dressed liked that around you, is a sign that he takes a lot for granted, maybe. This guy is not good for you in so so so many ways, SMH. You can find better. Keep it business ONLY, please. One time I was looking for a personal trainer at my last gym. I paid for a certain guy, and the first session was fine. The next session, he dressed sort of slovenly and he looked tired and all that, and I was afraid that he was smelling bad and since he is not MY man I certainly did not want a whiff of that and so I was uncomfortable for the entire 45 minute session, and sort of holding breath a lot, just in case he stinked. I cancelled the remainder of the entire training package at the front desk that same day. One day he saw me and he asked me what happened and why did I cancel, and I just told him that my schedule changed, but in reality I wanted him to bring his best, or close enough to it, or I would not be paying. I am done with considering personal training fro that experience. Too much proximity. And, before that first training session, I made sure that I was properly bathed and clean and I wore a pretty outfit and all of that, and I was on time and friendly and everything. So I was not paying for what he was bringing. Fair is fair. Regarding Big Little Lies, you can just go to the comments and read what is being said about each man from what we all wrote. Also, since you saw season One, you can try to guess what is said about each guy on your own looking at their photo and then read the comments. It is amazing how we see each man so differently. That was my biggest surprise, so far. You have time and some readers are still watching the series to finish season 1 and 2 and HG currently has not published his own assessments. Only if you can at this time, of course. I consider myself Successfully Single. I am not looking at all, which means I am in the most danger of meeting someone, because, often, that is how life works. So, HG Tudor`s Book: Sitting Target, arrived this week from England. It is my next read. Probably next week.

          4. PSE, I think I did not express myself properly regarding my friend and me. She is very negative about relationships in general or the chance of ever meeting someone whereas I am not. It doesn’t mean that I would chase someone. I wouldn’t. I meet men all the time who are interested in me. It’s just that I am usually not interested in them. I wouldn’t be interested in someone who didn’t signal his own interest. I am not that forward. My friend has not even met the guy yet – only online and spoken on the phone. She is just fantasizing basically but it makes her feel good so okay. She is an interesting case because she was drop dead gorgeous when she was younger – she still is, basically. She was married a long time ago but has only had one long term relationship since then, and that ended years ago. She’s a strange combination of intellectual arrogance and physical insecurity. I am better balanced. She often comments that I attract men even when I am not trying. She says it’s because I am open and she is closed, and she probably has a point there.

            Regarding WPG, if I were not seriously interested I would probably continue the flirtation but because I am seriously interested but cannot have him because he is married (or, as another friend said, ‘he’s married … now’), it is best to just let him know that I am not low hanging fruit, as you say. It’s a bit of a twist but with MRN, for instance, I knew we could never have a serious relationship – we were too different in our values, temperaments, lifestyles. So I was fine as IPSS. I never asked him to leave IPPS – I didn’t want him to. It would have to be different with WPG so that leaves me with nothing. I won’t have an affair with him and he won’t ever be single. So sending that message with the money was the best thing to do and hopefully he understands why.

            About his clothes – there were a lot of us there. It wasn’t just me. He was on local TV during our trip and he still did not dress properly! It has nothing to do with me. Just the way he is. To be honest, I am more comfortable with a man who doesn’t care much about his clothes than with one who is more interested in his clothes than I am in mine. I have been with those types too and for me it is a sign of a narc. I probably would have been fine with that trainer, unless he really stank! I am surprised the gym did not have a dress code or hygiene rules. I gotta say I have seen some real characters at mine. There seem to be a lot of male dancers (gay). One flamboyant guy wears a very tight white leotard with no underwear. It’s pretty funny but everyone averts their eyes and stays far away!!

            I know what you mean about meeting someone when you are not looking. Smart of you to get Sitting Target to prepare (and smart girl for getting that A+ – I am sure you deserved it!)

            I am not in the US right now and so cannot watch Season 2 of BLL (I don’t have it on cable either – I can pay for it but don’t want to). When I am back in the US, my niece will give me her HBO log in and I will binge it. In the meantime, I am afraid the posts on the thread will give things away and I want to be surprised!

          5. SMH: I am done with personal trainers. That one time was enough. I was not even looking for one, but the staff kept pushing and pushing and one day I finally said ok. So I am done with it. And, please, I am not suggesting you need a dandy. I am sure his way of dress is not a problem if you say so. I thought it was a problem because of the tone I felt from your sentences. And yes, that trainer looked like he was smelling bad, so I held my breath a lot to protect myself and just to get through the session. Many people do not have HBO. Just type: How can I watch Big Little Lies for free in ______________. And then fill in the blank with your location. Whichever affiliates that bought the series will come up on your computer whether it is Amazon Prime, or even some affiliates that you never heard of, or some affiliate that will give you a free week trial or something. It is so great to speak to you again. I can tell that I am much better, and you sound good, and hopefully I don’t have to lose sleep over Gigolo, and worrying about you. I think because I had a workplace dynamic, I will sleep with one eye open over Gigolo, just in case you do not. I call him Gigolo because it has negative connotations and HG said it is not good when we romanticise the Narcissist in question in the dynamic.

          6. lol PSE. Please do not lose sleep over me. I do not have to go to my office for months now, which means the chances of seeing WPG are pretty slim, though we’ll be in touch.

            Honestly, I don’t think I can tell who the bad guys are anymore. My judgment used to be pretty good. I’ve never even been cheated on, as far as I know. But that all went out the window with my twisted relationship with MRN. For the first time, I am wishing I had never gotten involved with him. I used to say I did not regret it but now I do because I see the long term damage it has done to my perspective and my judgment. In and of itself, it was only occasionally horrible but I see my foundation has cracked.

            WPG’s ill-fitting clothes are not really a problem because we are not involved but I would probably nag him about it if we were :). Anyway, I am getting him confused with MRN in my head because they are so much alike – they are even in related fields. But I really do not think WPG is a narc. He’s just a player.

            I looked for a way to watch BLL and I can, actually. But not tonight. Too tired!

          7. PSE, I haven’t had time to start watching it. Probably won’t happen for another week or so. I love the emoji but cannot figure out how to insert one on here myself!

  16. Hi HG.

    I was introduced to your devastating work a couple of weeks ago and have spent countless hours poring over it since I started wondering if a person I’m in love with and have been supporting and fighting for with tooth and nail for over a year is indeed being manipulated by a narcissist, or if he is actually a covert mid-ranger who simply got entangled with one of his own. I have already decided to consult privately with you about this in the very near future, but before then I’d like to ask three somewhat general questions:

    1. What or where is the line that divides the proper pathological narcissists from those people who have mostly narcissistic traits but still possess a bit emotional empathy, as minuscule as it might be? I guess I wonder about the critical point of no return on the narcissist scale, so to speak.

    2. Along that same line, have you ever encountered an example of someone whose narcissism you weren’t 100% sure about despite having what you would normally consider “enough” information about them? Or perhaps, could you tell us about the hardest case you’ve cracked, and what specifically made identification more difficult? What tipped the scale?

    3. Finally: is it possible for a (mid-range) narcissist to be ensnared and controlled by another narcissist (and more specifically, a lesser or another MR ) in a similar way that an empath can be?

    1. Welcome on board.

      1. Listen to Narcissist or Narcissistic on YouTube and read The Empathy Cake (published today).
      2. No.
      3. Yes.

  17. How to use what we learn here:

    1. Once we learn to identify narcs, should we use the information here to thwart them or avoid them? (if we’ve been targeted, the answer may vary)

    2. Sometimes it is hard to see the warning signs until you have become a target (ie, the workplace: you haven’t been “sought out” by the narc. But, once in the workplace, you may become targeted as a threat to the narc. When playing “Switzerland” to avoid drama stops working, is it best to quit until the narc has played himself out? Fight for your job? Or forget your job and move on?

    The narcissists show up everywhere. Rational ppl cannot wrap their minds around “why” (for example) an adult would target an innocent teen in the workplace. I’m not talking about sexual drama. Just drama for the sake of being cruel to the defenseless.

    1. Sorry for the run-on sentences; I’m typing via phone and did not notice until after clicking “send.”

      1. Another, shorter Q (upon rethinking ALL of my N relationships): Once we ID a narcissist, having been armed with your knowledge, is “fight” or “flight” the best way to use this knowledge? And is it different based on the relationship (romantic vs. coworker vs. boss vs. family member vs. friend?

        Because sometimes, knowing how your kind thinks/acts, and the empaths’ urge for justice, confrontation/exposure becomes a first choice. Yet, this is not usually winnable. Your kind lies, and we can’t.

        But, we hate to lose as much as you do…

        1. B.O. I lived your comment. Did you resolve it all. HG helped me He showed me how to not be outgunned, although I was outnumbered. I had to start all over. it is best for myself in the long run. I lost a lot of time in all that. 3 years. But, it could have been more.

          1. It all worked out (the workforce narc). I quit, got another job, and within a few weeks she was fired and they asked me back (and apologized for not listening/trusting me about the narc). My new job brings a lot more $, so I didn’t go back. But, I do go help/fill in when they need extra hands on deck. It’s a good relationship. They did a background check on the narc after firing her, just out of curiosity. She had four or five felony convictions, is currently on 8 years probation. Vindicated. 🔥

          2. Becoming Observant
            You were vindicated alright and, damn straight, they should have listened to you. That was the feel-good comment of the day. Thank you.

          3. You are welcome.

            I come across ppl who are going through tough times (bc of narcs), and they are afraid of sounding crazy when they talk about it. It’s nice to be able to point them to this site. They feel so relieved to learn that they are sane, not alone, and there are ways to handle these situations.

            Being defensive while defusing a narc (or deflecting their smears) is not the way to handle it. HG has shown me that stating the case without emotion (to the ones listening to the narc) and walking away is all you can do. They don’t all come back. The ones who don’t are likely lieutenants.

          4. B.O. I am sorry you went through all that. Like K, said, you were vindicated and actually saw your vidication. You also vindicated yourself by making the difficult decision to do what was best for you. I was vindicated as well through some ridiculous hoovering, but I have reached the point that I do not want any hoovers from that place at all now. And that is a recent development. I like that you were able to retain a relationship there. I guess in my mind, Narcissists never fall. I forget my dynamic is not the only one sometimes. For once, I can say, YAY!!!!!!!! Like K says, and I agree: `That was the feel-good comment of the day. Thank you.`

  18. Hi HG, I sent a few questions with a much longer detailed explanation and it either didn’t get through or you didn’t post it, so I’ll try to simplify.

    1. Is there ever a time when delaying no contact is a good idea, such as waiting until you have gotten safely far away from the narcissist?

    You have determined him to be upper mid-range elite/somatic. I am IPSS/DLS of over five years and I’ve finally made the decision to move far away from him and he has found out my plans. My logical brain is telling me he won’t risk doing anything crazy to jeopardize his marriage and reputation. However, he’s vacillating rapidly between love-bombing (like the original), devaluing, veiled threats, and even hinting he will finally leave his wife (what convenient timing). He’ll never beg, or even ask me to stay. He’s above all that. But I’ve never seen him switch behavior so rapidly and these veiled threats have me worried for my safety.

    2. Should I fake it ’til I make it (out of here), or do you think he is just trying to scare me and put me off balance? My inclination, based on your collective advice, is that I should go no-contact to avoid emotional thinking and focus on my escape. But the threats have me worried. Please let me know what you think. Thank you, as always, for your wisdom.

    1. Hello PR, your comment is in moderation still owing to the questions asked. I will answer them in due course.

  19. HG I have to ask a few related questions…

    1. Have you ever had someone comment regarding the narcissist from their past and had even a fleeting moment when you thought they might be talking about you? Nobody knows who you really are so it’s not impossible an ex fuel source of yours might find this site.

    2. If that did happen, how would you feel about it? How might you respond? (without revealing more than you’re willing about the five rules or anything else you can’t/won’t divulge, of course)

    3. If any of your fuel sources GoSo, and they’re technically following your most wonderful advice (whether they got it from you directly or not), is there any part of you that can respect that?

    For the sake of ease, in these hypothetical scenarios your fuel needs are being met elsewhere at the time.

    1. 1. No.
      2. Amused. Appropriately.
      3. Yes although they would not succeed when faced with me.

      Thank you for the questions and establishing a context also.

        1. It means they do not know about GOSO, therefore if they do not know about it, they cannot succeed versus me.

          1. Oh, thank goodness!

            I worried that you meant that the upper-eschelon of narcs are unshakeable, can’t be ridded-of.

            Thank you for clarifying that for me.

  20. HG, I have counseled with you before and you have determined that the individual I am dealing with is an upper mid-range elite/somatic with a sadistic streak. I am the IPSS/DLS of five years. I have talked about moving out of state for over a year, especially now that it has finally gotten through to me what he is (thanks to you) and that he will never leave his wife (and now I don’t even want him to). I don’t think he’s ever taken me seriously about moving, but it’s finally happening and I think he’s about to implode. There has been a massive grand hoover, love bombing, etc. combined with what I believe are underlying threats, and alternating seething criticism that turns on a dime back to worshipping me again, like nothing I have ever seen from him. He’ll tell me random gruesome stories, send me articles about people grieving over their dead animals and commenting about how sad it is (I’m a huge dog lover), tell me how worried he is when I go on vacation that I’ll be kidnapped in an Uber and sold into sex trafficking… the list goes on and on. I know this is to put fear into my mind and keep me off balance. His most recent stunt is to now hint around that he’s leaving his wife. More lies trotted out thinking I’ll believe he’s finally giving me what I want. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that I am leaving and I want him out of my life. With each sick attempted mind-screw, his emotional grip on me lessens, now that I know what he’s doing. My question for you is this: Should I go no-contact now (two months prior to moving)? Or continue to play dumb-ish and let him think there will still be at least long-distance fuel later, and then go no-contact when I’m at a safe distance? I’m not sure what he’s capable of. You said in your assessment that he did not meet the criteria for a Greater, but sometimes I wonder. The mind games are strong and I see through it all, but the fear is getting to me. The upside to that is that it’s enforcing my flight response. My logic mind says he would never do anything to put his marriage, reputation or livelihood on the line, but I need to know if I’m in danger and how to proceed. Thank you, as always, for your guidance.

    1. This is a detailed matter and you require assistance with regards to

      1. Conquering your emotional thinking as it is understandably impacting on your assessment of the situation and how you feel;
      2. The assessment of the narcissist’s school and behaviours;
      3. Your no contact regime; and
      4. What will happen.

      I advocate you organise an audio consultation with me.

  21. HG,
    Is it possible to think I had met another empath when in fact after about 9 months I begin to see traits and characteristics that remind me of a narcissist-the same pit in my stomach, familiar red flags. At first I told my self, this was not so but something happened last night that made me cry.
    As always thank you.

    1. Hi Victoria,
      I am sorry you are starting to have doubts about the man you are having a new relationship with and that he made you cry.
      I think many MR narcs can be mistaken for empaths. I hope a consultation with HG clears your doubts.

  22. Well, I’m on break from tearing down my mid-range as I await his next misstep. Compelling information. I hope you’ll still be answering questions here.

    Before coming across your information, H G, I learned quite a lot about cognitive function and abilities – diving into the realm of brain activity. Starting my journey there helped me to gain insight and understanding of personality types and people at their base level; see through the “peacocking” if you will. A hypothesis that I have currently is that people with cluster B type personality disorders are lacking in certain cognitive areas and their core deciding functions – thinking and feeling. The question I pose to you is this: Have you investigated where it is in your brain that you’re missing the activity needed for empathy? Are you aware that your cognitive functions are weak and lacking due to the imbalance of skills and ability? Logan Paul is a prime example of some one who has experienced loss of the prefrontal cortex resulting in impulsiveness and lack of empathy with his recent brain scan supporting this hypothesis.

  23. I am blessed with a lesser to mid range. I find that he repeats his diatribes if I have an issue with him. I have almost memorized them. “What about what you did in 2008?” He deflects to the same incident for every argument. Do they all use an identical spiel over and over? Or is he just lazy and uncreative??? I cannot believe I have no new infractions for him to complain about? !!!!What gives???

      1. That’s perfectly sensible. He is quite lazy. It’s a shame. He will say, “I’m stupid”, sometimes. I’m like, “Hell, no.” “You’re smart, you just never apply yourself fully to anything.”
        I can’t open a dialogue about what he wants in future, he literally will not permit me to speak.
        Being fucked with by someone like you seems luxe in comparison!! He wouldn’t even bother anymore. I feel invisible. He stopped accusing me of infidelity 8 months ago.
        I made my own word salad. I apologize and can’t thank you enough. If all you write is true, I give you credit for being honest about just ONE thing.
        I wish he could do the same. So I could figure out what to do. He won’t give his thoughts on the matter.

  24. My husband is a narcissist. I find your work validating and heartbreaking. I am an empath (of course). I find it curious that in all of our houses (he likes to move), he’s never shared a bathroom or closet with me. He will share with the kids. But not me. Is this to perpetuate or underline that I do niot exist?

    1. Welcome Angel, this is done to belittle you, cause you to think that you do not matter and to provoke you into trying to do something about so he is given fuel. It demonstrates his lack of empathy for how it makes you feel and underlines his sense of entitlement.

  25. Kiki,

    you are late on the game, my friend and I mean no offense but if we are to be honest, I would say that maybe 99% of us here have already fantasized or at least thought about how and what would be meeting him in person. It is a natural reaction to someone like him, coming from the place we came from in ourselves.
    It is a connection and it is there. And yes, in many ways he has replaced my narc and I am glad HG did because he has saved me from my own darkness.

    And of course, he has not hurt us; he has helped us. It is like…. we all have narcs in our lives but now we have the Master of all teaching us.

    I need to say something though. This is serious to me. I was reading this thread and someone somewhere mentioned something about his childhood; the fact that he was kept outside in the cold until he could recite something correctly.
    Ok. Those lines hit me like a punch in the stomach. I immediately felt physical pain, like a knife cutting me open from my chest down my stomach and legs. Then shivering. I began shivering in a 94 degree summer heat sitting outside.

    A deep sadness and a loneliness that I cannot possibly convene in words. A sadness that only an innocent child can feel because they are open, innocent, helpless.

    The image in my mind is this little boy dressed in uniform, a brown uniform, shorts, white shirt, hair combed to the side, holding something in his hand, exerting an enormous self-control to not shiver, to not feel it, to dissociate from it. Fear of what would happen if he couldn’t do it. Survival. There is more that I sense but I will stop because I don’t want to sound invasive or throw out assumptions of guesses. I don’t feel or say anymore, out of respect.

    But whoever hurt that little boy in him, is my enemy. As I was once a little girl standing in the cold…

    1. Hello HG, is it more characteristic of a somatic MRN or a victim MRN to withhold sex for control? Some picture sharing, a kiss and other flirting is the only thing that transpired before a devaluation-silent treatment. It was pretty obvious what the E wanted and yet the N didnt oblige in anyway.

      Also, is there such thing as an Elite V, MRN? Or does that sound like an oxymoron 😁

      1. Either Somatic MRN or Victim MRN would withhold sex for control, but it is far more likely from a somatic. You will be given plenty of sex, so withholding it means you feel its absence all the more keenly and are thus brought to heel far more effectively.

        No, you do not have an Elite Victim MRN.

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