Hiding from Yourself
Another session with Dr E. As I sat down in his consulting room I wondered how much had been spent so far with regards to this supposed treatment. A few thousand pounds no doubt and I imagined that both Dr E and Dr O would be more than content to continue these consultations given their lucrative nature. The cynic in my nature pondered that the financial rewards were such that they would string out this course of treatment for as long as they could. That did not concern me. I was not paying and I usually enjoyed my sparring with the good doctors. It entertained me. However as I ruminated on whether the lure of filthy lucre was what motivated Dr E and Dr O, I realised that they at least gave the impression of wanting to help me. I know from the many sessions it was as much about me gaining awareness and insight in order to make informed decisions about what I wanted, rather than a prescriptive approach from these head doctors but I realised that they actually did care. They wanted to help me. This of course was the main reason why I was content to keep turning up and being subjected to their questions ; these two examiners of HG exhibited empathic traits and thus they proved attractive to me. My tolerance for their repeated probing of areas of my life that I preferred to keep shuttered and closed arose because they provided me with the attention that is so vital to my existence. I also knew that there was an admiration there for me as well. It was evident in the way the pair looked at me, especially Dr O. I knew, as academics, they admired the way I was so candid about the way I behaved. I could see how they admired the way I had been created. I knew they did not like it, how does one like something like me given the abuse I dole out as freely as a farmer broadcasting seed, but they had that deep-seated admiration for this efficient machine that had been stripped of all unnecessary emotions and super-charged with certain traits in order to function at maximum effectiveness. Accordingly, even the doctors were providing me with the thing I needed and our relationship might continue ad infinitum. They continued to be fascinated by me and they desired to help me. I, in turn, was content to engage in this relationship as it provided something that I required. The arrangement was a mutually satisfying one, even when the doctors strayed into territories that were best left alone.
“Hello HG how are you?” asked Dr E. I hesitated. He did not normally enquire as to my state of being. Others would trot out such a question rarely interested in the answer but merely performing a social nicety. Dr E did not ask such a question and for him to now do so put me on guard.
“I am excellent well, thank you for your kind enquiry,” I replied with a smile. I did not enquire after his well-being, I was not interested nor did I have to feign such interest.
“Good. Now, straight down to business, who are you?”
“H G Tudor.”
“Indeed you are. Anything else?”
I paused. I see Dr E we were going deep today were we? Very well, let’s flush out where you want to go.
“The question of who I am is something that depends on the context,” I began. Dr E commenced his note-taking.
“How does one define oneself is what I suspect you are really driving at.” I looked to Dr E for a sign of affirmation but there was none.
“Do I have an idea of who I am? How is that arrived at? Do I know who I am or do I look to others to define me? Am I an independent identity that has been shaped by my own decisions or am I a product of others and their experiences? Am I aware of who I am or have I yet to discover all that I am?”
“All interesting questions but let me return to my initial question,” interrupted Dr E, “who are you?”
“Who am I? I am many things to many people. Friend, lover, boss or confidant are labels which are applicable to me. Conqueror, seducer, victim and defiler are others which are equally applicable. Charismatic, urbane, intelligent, interesting, stimulating, successful and alluring are also traits that come together to create who I am.”
“I see. Would you say therefore that you are confident that you know who you are?”
“Do you think that if I asked this question of your family and friends, your colleagues or even my secretary that they would give similar answers to those you have provided me with?”
“Liars lurk within the ranks of those you have described and they have nothing but ill-will towards me. Their perfidy is so great I can smell its stench as I sit here. By all means ask but you will be given nothing but a litany of lies. Insults and assaults on my good nature.”
“So all of them would insult you?”
“No, not all, there are those who know me for what I am.”
“Might it be said that they all know you for who you are?” pressed Dr E.
“No. There are those who have an agenda to topple me and it is they that think they know me but they have constructed an idea of what I am and it is a false one that is used to serve their nefarious purposes. Others recognise my greatness and they are content to embrace it.”
“But could it not be the case that these categories of people just happen to know different elements of you. Your admirers know the H G that is generous, interesting and charming. Those who you regard as detractors perhaps know a different part of you, the defiler and conqueror that you made reference to, this causing them to regard you in a less positive light?” asked Dr E.
“No. The defiler and conqueror are artifices created by those who seek to harm me. Let them do so and I will be that which they think I am. It is no more than they deserve. They create such a monstrosity through their perfidy and unwarranted attacks, so let them know the beast, let them feel its hot and fetid breath in their faces, the rake of its claws against their yielding skin and the full horror of its power on their being. They create it, let them endure it,” I spat, the mere consideration of those who would do me wrong causing my fury to ignite.
“Could you not possess all of those attributes? Could it not be the case you have them all and people see some over others?”
“No,” I said firmly. Dr E nodded and fell silent.
“What would you think if I said that I think you are hiding from yourself?”
I switched my gaze from Dr E and focussed on a picture on the wall. Not this, don’t start this again. Don’t let him gain a foothold H G. Repel the boarder, eject the intruder, cast him out.
“I do not hide.”
“But might you not realise that you are doing so?”
“Could it be that you do not know who you are?”
“Could it be that you do know but would prefer not to contemplate it?”
“Is this line of discussion making you uncomfortable?”
I shifted my gaze back to Dr E. Go on, keep trying to batter through my defences, you will not succeed. I know your game Dr E. I know what you are trying to suggest but I am not going there.
“Very well. Let us go back to how you regard yourself then, elaborate on that,” he invited.
The sense of relief washed over me but I gave no outward sign of its effect. I smiled, elated to have rejected this probing once again and excited by the prospect of talking about my favourite subject in greater detail; me.
96 thoughts on “Hiding from Yourself”
I re-read ‘Hiding From Yourself’ again. When you were asked the question (or, rather, an “accusation” somewhat), whether you were “hiding from yourself”. I read what you wrote next.
As I re-read this section of this article, I thought to myself – nobody actually “hides” from themselves. That is impossible to do. One can ‘avoid’ going into that box of ‘pain’, which is usually felt through emotions first because that is what we all humans learn from the very day we are born, it takes a lot longer to “register” in our minds what ‘pain’ is, how, who by, yet it takes sometimes **never, to understand WHY. **’never’ becomes the opposite if people find their way to the ‘grail’ of understanding the ‘hidden’ and sometimes, ‘darker’ side of humanity.
HG’s words extracted from his comment: “are we all just a product of our environment”.
I would suggest, yes. We cannot control what volcanos do. We cannot control how a wild animal ‘reacts’ to our entering their ‘space’. We cannot control what gives humans ‘sickness’ ie Covid virus but those in “power” failed to alleviate the control of that virus before it spread. Something similar must have happened to lead to genetic patterns within humans to change at the start of humanity somewhere and somehow. We will never get the answer because there is no record of such.
HG’s words in another comment of his: “I know I am human albeit an ubermensch”
I Googled that.
“The Übermensch is a concept in the philosophy of Friedrich Nietzsche. In his 1883 book, Thus Spoke Zarathustra, Nietzsche has his character Zarathustra posit the Übermensch as a goal for humanity to set for itself.” (Wikipedia).
The words “as a goal for humanity to set for itself”. In my view, that, in itself, is what HG Tudor has laid the foundations of by starting KTN. His Legacy.
The ‘why’ is because of the man himself, “a product of the environment” (the LOCE) that he was “introduced” to which led to what he was ‘created’ to be – just like so many other victims of narcissism.
The ‘how’ is through his work. Listening to other people’s experiences. Providing the space to leave the growing ‘entity’ that is his creation.
The comments in this thread, albeit written some years ago, was interesting and insightful to read. Thank you for moderating, HG 🙂 xx
If you look at the history of “man” there were 7 . Homo sapiens did the best. Despite lots of land, resources, ok maybe not women… the largest genocide in mankind’s history statistically was the homosexual sapiens erudition of Neanderthals… a sweet less sophisticated race. Just saying….
Contagious, “homosexual”? Is that predictive text gone awry? Either way, it could be considered evolution of mankind.
Yes! Sorry homosapiens. Geez. Spellcheck!
The probing is so inappropriate
“Who are you?” is very hard question to anyone. It invites to swim in a deep water and this isn’t a pleasant journey at all. Deep water deals with very deep emotional level. Deep water means “time of truth”. Deep water means pain. People are afraid of this question, because they are afraid of pain.
Narcs have a lot of hidden pain, plus they operate with painful emotions on a constant base (jealous, envy, abandonment, neglect, etc), and that’s why they avoid to swim in a deep water with you. They fight with their pain every single day, they are fed up with it, and now you invite them with your “who are you” question to meet this pain again! They want a painkiller from you (admiration, adoration, etc.), not an additional pain. Of course, the painkiller is not a problem solver. To get rid of pain, you have to deal with its cause.
But the “swimming in a deep water” tactic is the best detector of Narc personality. I would dare say, it is the single reliable tactic to detect a Narc for sure. Invite them to swim there and then watch the fascinating performance of evasiveness. Of course, you have to be familiar with this “deep water” personally, but I guess that many empaths have this quality due to the constant self-analyze and self-blame.
It doesn’t matter whether your blog story real or not, but what you are doing with yourself publicly deserves profound respect and admiration. You definitely have a steel balls, Tudor.
What people tend to forget is Narcissists have brain deficits. They can’t be healed or cured. This is why they lack empathy and conscience.
whoa! hahaha G and brain deficit? NEVER .
I would cut you off from everything for one week in solitary confindment. Would you end up a crazed man. Beyond the place of no return? Would you scratch out your eyes? Perhaps you would fight the demon all by yourself. Don’t you think you would be considered a coward to use others to fight the demon.
Do you think that you and your kind are soul serial killers?
I am so fascinated that you know what you are and you know it isn’t right but yet you continue. Wired wrong, short circuit brainwaves, a lemon in a beautiful body. You write about the monster you are compared to “normal”.
Can you could still be a narcissist and not destroy others?
You prey on the weak. I am weak, I admit this. But the factors that played into my being vulnerable at the time of my encounter with one of your kind was not the norm for me. This is why it was short lived and he
So perhaps you do not have any control of anything. As everything else in your life, you are a lie to yourself. Hmmm
You know I am in like with your nerve to smile in thinking I have no clue. Perhaps. But then again I buy your books, I read your blogs. I am your fan.
Hello Stephanie, being cut off for a week in such circumstances would be a tortuous experience indeed. Would I end up crazed? I do not know for sure. I do not think so but I would be severely weakened and subjected to the torments of the creature which would push me to a place I would rather not go near. I wouldn’t scratch out my eyes, no.
Am I a coward to use others to fight the demon. I am sure some will say yes, but I regard it as simply playing to my strengths. If there are means of achieving my aims which utilise others then I shall avail myself of that opportunity.
Am I a soul serial killer, yes I suppose I am.
I continue because I have no option other than to do so.
Can I still be what I am and not destroy others? That remains to be seen but past performance indicates the chances are slim. I would point out that I do not destroy because we always want to be able to come back to you.
The question of control is indeed an interesting one. I exert control over everything around me yet I am subject to the control of what I am which drives me in the way that it does. I suppose however this raises the question of are we all just a product of our environment or do we actually exert free will?
Thank you for continuing to read and raise your questions, it is appreciated.
“Am I a soul serial killer, yes I suppose I am.
I continue because I have no option other than to do so.
Can I still be what I am and not destroy others? That remains to be seen but past performance indicates the chances are slim.”
It was many years ago. What changed? How are the chances now?
Wow HG how you’ve changed through the years. These new comments to older post have given me the opportunity to not only read older articles but to read older comments you’ve written. You were so much more vulnerable then. Now the answers are short and curt like “no”. Do you think you harden with every passing year?
No, it is more to do with the availability of time to respond to people’s queries and comments. I have a lot more demands on my time now than when the blog was first started.
I recently read a book by an English psychiatrist who works in Broadmor for decades and she criticized the use of solitary confinement. She said it made every mental health worse. It’s torture. I don’t think anyone too long in solitary confinement would end up healthy. Narc, normal, empath or other…
Free will. A biblical question. There is science that links narcissism with a lack of grey matter in the brain. And I am one who feels genes are everything. I see it in my children. Personality traits. But I am also interested greatly in dreams and the unconscious selves. I have written greatly about my dreams to me remain unexplained. Facts are facts. If you don’t experience them consciously how can they appear unconsciously. I am delving into recent studies on sleep and the unconscious mind. I am unsatisfied. But I do think the unconscious self lays the framework for conscious self. And my guess is the unconscious self was formed at birth. Genes and environment. Just like neurologists are doing new work, I think that working with the subconscious will be a new arena with sleep and changing the conscious. AI also. No doubt break throughs will come in time. Question is do narcissist and psychopaths serve a function in our world despite the damage done to others. I have no answer. I would say Empaths also have a role… obvious … in the balance of this world. Imagine a world where we could recognize our kind and move forth without pain but with understanding and acceptance…I have struggled as a mother of a soldier…but Empaths can be soldiers I think. The point is to be an aware empath. That makes you strong. It does not eliminate narcs. You co-exist without pain. I mean most of us do anyway. And those who don’t just need HG to share awareness of the plight. HG does not eliminate narcs or psychopaths, he can’t. But he do a make aware that they exist like land mines we must cross….
Also isn’t it interesting that we use more 30% brain matter when we sleep. Sorry but the lack of knowledge on our subconscious mind to me holds the key to a lot not just st narcs.
Can you share the 5 rules?
Yes.. 😃 Would be interesting to know..
You may be a narcissist, but I think you are doing something very good here with your blog and helping a lot of people. I do not think you are a bad person at all, although I can’t get too many others in the narc-abuse community to read your stuff. I wish people would be more open-minded. I’ve learned as much if not more from you, Sam Vaknin, and the folks on the NPD board at psychforums than I have from some people in the victim community, who don’t recognize that narcissists became that way because to not do so hurt too much. I see NPD as a emotional prison, not a one way ticket to hell.
Your phrase “emotional prison” is completely apt.
Thank you for your kind comments and your endeavours to spread the word. It is understandable that some people will close their minds to what is on offer. Some people remain raw and hurt and reading my brutal truths would most likely do more harm than good. They need to advance further before embracing my writings. I understand that and others have commented as such. Others fail to see the true value they gain from reading the perpetrator’s perspective and instead would rather engage in ad hominem attacks or just not be interested because of who I am. Again, that is understandable if narrow-minded and they are denying themselves some useful knowledge but so be it, their issue, not mine. You can learn about crime from a criminal, a victim or a police officer. The most effective approach would be to engage with all three, but some people would rather spend their time flinging mud than engaging with somebody who might offer knowledge that can help them. Yes I do terrible things, we all know that, feel free to remind me and tell me again how despicable I am, I have heard it all before and will again and it is all fuel, but then move beyond that and see what use you can make of such interaction. I am pleased to write that the vast majority of commenters here engage in an open-minded manner, sharing their experiences, wanting to ask questions to aid their understanding, engage in some good-natured jousting and sometimes to get things off their chest. I like that and I respect such commenters here, such as yourself, for embracing it in that manner. I actually (with the help of the good doctors) wrote down, when I started this work, 5 rules I would adhere to in respect of the work that I do, in order to make it worthwhile for me and for the commenters. I have abided by those rules (sometimes it has been hard) but I do recognise that such adherence has been constructive. Thanks for your post.
You’re welcome HG. 🙂 I hope you have a great day today.
It hurts to read many of your posts HG because of the truth behind them, BUT as mixed up as my head still is every single one takes me a step closer to understanding why I’m so mixed up That can only be a good thing . It is a good thing .. Ty as always.
You are welcome So Sad.
I sense you have become more succinct over time?
I enjoyed reading your last 2 long posts above 🙏
I would have preferred to never have a reason to focus on understanding narcissism. But, I was driven here by pain. Pain and a complete lack of comprehension of why someone would behave in such a manner. Why? I needed the truth. I found it only here. I had wanted a different answer back then. But, thank God, I found the truth instead. It took some time to fully process. But, now I know. And knowing set me free from pain as well. HG, you give a priceless gift in your brutal yet beautiful honesty. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and gifts here with such dedication and humor. I am no victim. I am armored. I am ever resisting. And I pass your truth on to others so they can be free too.
HG you have become an independent source of news to me. You help explain the chaos of the day
I do not understand how one could join a blog for help then disparage the helper. I don’t understand why anyone would throw negativity to someone they don’t know. To me, it’s pointing a finger with three pointing back at you and an utter waste of time. Pollution.
I agree with you, Contagious. Thank you for sharing your view 🙂
Such a great comment, HG. So good to have read it, albeit it being composed quite some time ago. 🙂
Asp, isn’t it though? I feel like his interactions with bloggers has changed over the years.
k mac, interesting observation, one I would be inclined to agree upon 🙂
Oooooo what are the 5 rules?
k mac, it’s mentioned in Formal Info – The Rules of Knowing the Narcissist.
Your insight goes beyond a personal relationship but helps explain the way of the world. It has political connotations to consider such as who to vote for …it changes work place dynamics, it frees people from childhood dilemmas. It entertains at times. You are the best at what you do. I am not a fan of narcissist and or psychopaths because of the damage done. But I respect your work as it brings a much needed light ( awareness) on todays world and some people. To know better is to do better. I know you will go farther mainstream and you have my support.
Knowledge is power. Thank you HG. Despite your psychological roots, you provide knowledge. From what I have learned: Narcs however not only want misery as company, they insist on it.
HG your work is needed. This world is either growing with narcissists and psychopaths or the masses who are educated are seeing it and reading about it thanks or un thanks to the internet. It is important to know these dynamics in personal relations, work places but also politically and I mean this on a local level, national and international. Knowledge is power, it spreads. Slowly of course. But the right direction. Can it create change? Real change? As good as any tool of knowledge. Stay tuned…
Maybe I am asking too much for an analysis on certain politicians and other “ leaders” but what I see are diversionary tactics for the uneducated. The tools of media for example in political campaigns by psychopaths/ narcs to sway masses to hate campaigns and biases or even religious divides to seek more glory and gain. By gain, I mean money. They get fuel but by God they get gains too. The conspiracy is theorists are a good start also. If you were willing, I wish this blog mass appeal. Expose them for what they are.
Very well said. Very much agree. Best,
HG, with regard to the emotional prison, does it feel that way to aware narcissists? What does it feel like to the unaware ones, or are they unaware of even that? Does this manifest as the Creature, or is that a separate component altogether?
So nice what you say 🌷. Me too I have sent this blog i private to some people but they refuse to accept the truth and prefer to live in denial.
liar liar pants on fire 😛
Stop blame shifting D
…..so now that we have established it’s a “yes.”
You’re butt hurt and in need of fuel.
I offer exactly a 5 second hug. No more no less.
but…obviously a yes!
or more likely a no!
😉 that’s a yes then
Or a no!
Make “him” stop? Who’s him? what is he doing or saying?
Do my questions make you uncomfortable?
Not especially. I can always choose to not answer if they did.
Question (I’m inquisitive as you may have gathered.)
Picture this scenario.
Alone at home for 24 hours, no phone, no internet connection, no contact from the outside world, you can not leave the house (we don’t need to think of why you can’t leave the house, you just can’t because I say so! It’s my hypothetical.)
How do you make it through the day? What thoughts would be running through your mind?
Thankfully this would never happen however in the spirit of playing ball I will answer. With immense difficulty. Make him stop. I need fuel.
I was wondering if the little monster/beast/dragon inside yourself that you’re afraid of, has anything to do with facing guilt?
I wonder why you would be eradicated instead of transformed?
Is it because you don’t have a strong sense of who you are, due to being completely dependant on other people’s reactions/fuel?
Unpleasant? You’re staring to sound regular H G! Just when I thought you could face anything 😛
What would be unpleasant about it? Is it coming to terms with guilt? Accepting you’re human? Do you have a fear of abandonment?
Guilt? What’s that? I know I am human albeit an ubermensch. Do I fear abandonment, no I do the abandoning although I am mightily offended if someone gets in first. It would be unpleasant having to contemplate in such a discussion my eradication. For someone like me that is not something I find easy to do.
Of course, no one has to do anything, the point is, can you do it and live?
Can I answer the questions from the doc? Yes if I want to although it will not be pleasant.
So in other words, the answer is no, you do not have the strength to survive the good docs questions about who you are. Wow, some god you are… :/
Of course I have the strength to survive them, I batted them back. I am a god as I choose when I want to answer and I am not compelled to do so.
Who you are is just a narc, a con artist, a fraudster etc if that changes you are nothing? Or do you not have the courage to be anything else?
I know what I am. Do you know what you are?
Heeyy now!! I thought you loved talking about yourself? Would you really, REALLY cease to exist? Logically? Do you believe you do not have the strength to survive the good docs questions about who you are?
Of course I like talking about myself D but I do not like to contemplate the very thing that would cause me to cease to exist. I can handle the good doctors, they are just trying to push me to deal with things that I do not want to deal with because I do not have to deal with them.
For whom was that question directed? I will reply anyways, my answer is No.
Scaredy cat! 😉
Are you not frightened of ceasing to exist?
Would you really cease to exist or transform? Seems like you’re more afraid of yourself than your victims, maybe? 😛
See… I doubt that. I get the defense part. A good offense is the best defense. Right? And there is no good solution for psychopathy that I have read but there are glimmers of hope I have read for narcs. Cold therapy? But I am only a hopeful not educated in the field.
Although I don’t like this banter, I myself do not worry about existing. Death is a natural part of life and I and I feel completely at peace with it. I feel I know what is beyond. I have Faith. I just don’t understand the reasoning of a hypothesis of a narc without fuel. They suffer. Many suffer in this world. Best to focus on survival, thrive and peace.
Wow you’ve been reading quite far back.
Contagious, I think that the question of ceasing to exist is different for the narcissist.
I’m not afraid of death either. I’m more afraid of living too long. I’m not thrilled about the circumstances surrounding my death. Death is rarely pretty, dignified or pain free, not really.
The end point of death doesn’t worry me though. I think in part that is to do with sense of self. I know who I am. I will die with my memories, my wins, my losses, I love and have been loved. My children and future grandchildren will live on with memories of me that pop up occasionally. There will be elements of me that live on through them. I’m content with my life overall, so I’ll be content when my death arrives.
I think the narcissist is different and it’s the lack of self that is the problem. There is no genuine self. There is the construct and there is the ‘true self’ locked away, stunted, never to see the light of day. The memories are real in terms of action and event but there is no emotional foundation ( apart from the bad memories). There are wins and losses but there is no real person there to take credit, so they are more like positive or negative events without meaningful investment. The narcissist was loved but didn’t comprehend the value, rendering love meaningless in itself and the narcissist never gave love, never gave of himself. Nothing about the narcissist’s existence is real, at least not in the way we understand real to be. Again, life for them then is little more than a series of events with an accumulation of materialistic ‘stuff’.
There is no one there. No genuine loyalties to a cause, no honour, no true likes or dislikes, no genuine emotion, no intimacy, no true beliefs. What there is, is survival. If there is truly no genuine person there, then it is little wonder that the narcissist needs fuel to believe that they actually exist at all. The fuel reinforces the fact of a physical presence via the construct, it doesn’t prove the existence of a ‘real’ person.
Death is the end of the physical presence. Cessation of fuel is the end of the constructed person. Behind that construct there is no one home. There are two possible deaths for the narcissist. I would hazard a guess that Death is the more preferable.
A detailed well educated analysis and Under that definition … yes…but I am not a narc… HG?
TS, this comment really got me thinking. I’m not afraid of death either in that I’m not afraid to face my maker and I’m not afraid of waits for me on the other side. I also haven’t given much thought about how I will die. I can’t picture the future nor can I picture the past. I can remember things people said but I can’t picture them saying it. I can’t picture where it happened or even what they were wearing. I can’t remember those things for myself either. If that makes sense. Anyway, because I can’t picture the thoughts around dying, it doesn’t bother me either. What does scare me about dying is the thought of never again interacting with the people I love. I would say the people that love me too but I don’t think I have that. All the people in my life, except my one daughter, is a narcissist. As we know they don’t love . Although, in the past I’ve thought about how it will affect the people who love me, when I’m gone.
So going back to the piece where I can’t picture things. You said, “The memories are real in terms of action and event but there is no emotional foundation” My memories feel like a series of events in my head too. Not always, but very often I need a prompt to feel the emotion that I felt that day. Its why I loved taking pictures all the time. I keep a calendar too. Those things help to bring me back to that moment. Sometimes something someone says will help me remember it as well. I wonder if that has more to do with being an ACON and detaching, more than being a narcissist. I’m a double ACON so I couldn’t attach to either one of my parents and since detachment is all I know, that’s how my life plays out.
Your second to last paragraph really summarizes it very neatly.
“There is no one there.” Its why they need us so much and why they’re copy cat and steal our character traits for their own.
“What there is, is survival”. Imagine living a life where that’s your only goal, every day. Most of them don’t know it though and that makes it even sadder.
There’s no genuine person and in order to feel real, they need to validate their physical existence by way of fuel and causing an emotional reaction in others.
I know that I know these things already but it still blows my mind when I think about it.
Hello Leigh x
I know what you mean. We know that they are their construct and nothing more but we can’t quite imagine what it feels like. It is mind blowing when you really sit and think about it, I agree.
To understand something properly I always need to know how it feels. Not a description, but I need to imagine myself there and really have a good think and a good look around. I just can’t imagine them clearly. I understand the behaviours, what they are, the purpose, all of that but I still can’t quite place myself in their skin. Essentially, I can’t imagine the emptiness, that’s what it is I think. I can imagine being someone else, but I can’t imagine being no one else.
Your memories. You consider detachment as a reason. I’m not sure it’s detachment in the sense that you are detached or have been detached and so have a missing attachment ability as a result. I think that you remember through your shield. To remain sane, being a double ACON, plus married to a narcissist with only one empathic child, honestly I think you have had your shield up in most situations. You’ve had to defend yourself and be on high alert through a large part of your life. I don’t see it as emotional detachment as such, more a defensive strategy. Walking on egg shells, diffusing, anticipating, resolving, calming etc. I think you were so busy doing these things that there was less room to feel the emotion of an event, no room to pause and take anything in, just repeated firefighting.
When I think about my childhood I describe it as happy because there were people in it that made me feel happiness. When I recall memories of just me and my mum I can recall the detail as usual, I can recall verbatim what was said and done but here there is no emotional memory. I can tell you in words how I felt but I don’t feel it now. I don’t feel anything. Sadness happiness anger, nothing at all.
I think that sounds similar to your description. I don’t think you are detached because I don’t feel detached. I have shielded against that one person, because at the time I assume I needed to.
I don’t really bring to mind scenes of just me and my mum either. There is one that sticks in my mind. She has told me herself about this and I can remember the occasion vividly.
I was well behaved as a child. My mum was taking me for a new winter coat. I must have been about 6 yrs old. There was a posh children’s clothing shop where we used to go for ‘special clothes’. I had a couple of party dresses from there and my winter coats were bought there. Apparently I turned into “devil child”. This is an exaggeration though I confess I can still remember the view of the shop from under a rail of clothes and also from the shop window hahaha. My mum was horrified. We left abruptly and she took hold of my hand marching me to the car telling me off the whole time. How the ladies in the shop had looked down at her because of me, how embarrassed she was. How I didn’t deserve to have a nice new coat because I was a bad girl. She was walking so fast I had to run to keep up and she utilised the grip of doom. She opened the car door, pushed me inside, slammed the door and marched round to the drivers side. She was fizzing with anger. Eventually she stopped telling me how bad I was. I hadn’t said anything since we left the shop. Didn’t cry, didn’t answer back, nothing at all. I remember looking out of the car window as she drove. Eventually I said, “Are we going to get my coat tomorrow then mum?” Haha! Can you imagine? Light blue touch paper and stand well back! This memory carries emotion for me when I remember. I think it’s the only one with her that does. My adult post knowledge self smiles at my behaviour that day. Threat to control, no tears, no apology, no emotion, no nothing, safely tucked away behind my shield.
I think Leigh that you really need to build new memories and new relationships with people who aren’t narcissists. Easier said than done I know. Try really hard to make yourself a priority. Time is passing and you really deserve more happy memories. One day your non narc daughter will likely marry, maybe have children and at that point there will be a new non narc family for you to love and who will love you properly. That’s before we consider friends and any future relationships that present themselves when you kick your narc husband into touch, which you will, just a matter of time 😉
I hope this helps. Xx
TS, thank you for sharing that memory! The thought of you asking if you could you get your winter coat the next day, had me laughing out loud. Out of the mouths babes, lol!
I’m very similar to you about understanding something properly. I need more than a description too. I actually have to experience it. I was just saying to a friend that I want to see the world so that I can fully experience it. Reading about the pyramids or Buckingham Palace isn’t enough. I need to actually see it and feel it.
I think your shield description is an apt one. If my shield was up then I couldn’t experience it fully. That kind of makes me sad and mad at the same time. Its interesting because I often feel like I’m looking through a movie lens when thinking about my memories. There are some memories that evoke an emotion. But not too many.
Thank you, TS. Yes, your comments always help.
Yes, I can understand why having your shield up would make you both sad and angry when you look back. Not the fault of the shield, the shield was doing its job. The blame lies at the feet of the various narcs you have had to endure.
You have maintained a strong sense of who you are, which is a massive achievement in itself. I think that will stand you in good stead moving forward. The main problem, and with being surrounded by so many narcs, I just don’t think you were given the opportunity to show who you are to many people. To just relax and enjoy the moment, whilst within the moment. They take a lot from us, often more than we realise.
The beauty of the empath though, is that once out we do fully come back to ourselves. You will too and I think then the genuine memories will come into clearer focus.
HG always looks forward, rarely looks back. There’s no regret, I agree for the most part regret just brings us down. I think there’s something we can learn from HG’s approach when applied to our own circumstances. The past is done, we have to make sure we get the very best out of the future.
TS, I’m always amazed at how well you hit the nail on the head. You are correct, I show very few people the real me. There are also very few times I’ve enjoyed the moment during the moment. There are some genuine moments but they are few and far between. I agree, we can only look forward. What’s done is done.
Thank you, TS. I know its time for me to start enjoying my life and not as a spectator behind a shield.
TS, I’m curious, do you feel like your Contagion is growing? I’ve been struggling lately with the fact that most people don’t know the real me. Most see a dimmed down version, including my husband. I feel like I have to hide who I am, especially with him. Your comment cane at the perfect time. Its another piece of the puzzle.
Thank you TS!
I’m glad my comment resonated with you and you were able to find another piece of the puzzle. X
My Contagion is actually in full flight at the moment! I’m helping a friend to get over a recent ensnarement. The combination of spending more time with another empath and actively reaching for where he’s up to emotionally has dialled up my Contagion element I think.
TS, I knew it. You were so attuned with what I was feeling at that moment.
Its interesting that you said you’ve been spending time with another empath and think that might be why your Contagion element is dialed up. That often happens to me too when talking to my daughter or my empath friend, especially when I’m helping. It feels like my spidey sense is heightened.
Thank you for sharing that. Again, another piece of the puzzle.
You always make me laugh with your spidey senses. It’s quite interesting now that I am spending time with another empath. There’s a real understanding there. A real meeting of minds. I experience that here on the blog but in real life it feels quite remarkable.
That’s interesting that you feel your spidey senses are heightened when you get time alone with your daughter. That makes sense to me and reminds me of something similar.
I remember the only time my dad ever got cross with me. I had been to see a clairvoyant. The clairvoyant was good, really good and when I spoke to my dad about it, he was quite cross. His point was that firstly, you don’t mess with things you don’t understand. Secondly, he believes quite strongly that if we are that way inclined ourselves and around people with that gift then it kind of rubs off on us. Our own senses are heightened for a period of time afterwards.
The clairvoyant was shockingly accurate, which didn’t help my case! Some strange stuff did happen in the days that followed too, then everything settled back down again. I promised never to go back. I’ve never seen a clairvoyant since.
Suffice to say, although perhaps not logical or provable there is force behind your suggestion that other empaths can perhaps heighten what is already there within our empathic structure. I think so any way.
I’m great on Halloween by the way! Haha!
TS, that’s so interesting what your father said about clairvoyants. I feel very similar. I don’t think you should mess with those things. I have no desire to speak to a psychic or a medium. I feel like I’d be tapping into things you shouldn’t tape into. I never knew why I felt that way but its interesting that your father thinks it could heighten our senses. You see, that’s my spidey sense warning me, lol. Even if I don’t know it, my spidey sense does, lol.
I don’t feel that way about other empaths though. Speaking with other empaths sooths and calms me and brings me back to center. I don’t even have to talk about myself, just speaking with them or being around them helps.
Nature has that same effect on me. I got caught in a rain shower on Monday and it just felt like it cleansed my soul. Any negativity that I was holding onto, was washed away. It came at the perfect time too because I was holding on to anger from a situation on Sunday and I needed to let it go.
I lost your last comment, just found it again. I’m glad I did, it made me laugh out loud with the spidey senses.
I agree totally with your point about how other empaths make you feel, talking to them, being around them. I’m struggling a bit at the moment, and I’ve noticed the same thing. I call it resting in my empath friend’s forcefield. He doesn’t need to say anything because I know he knows, just standing close by can be a huge support on tougher days.
We both have Contagion elements, I think that’s one of the positive sides of Contagion. You don’t need to ask, because you already know. You don’t need to offer support because it’s already felt.
Empaths are way cooler than narcs, a quiet pizazz, haha!
TS, WordPress is terrible. I rarely get notifications or emails anymore. Luckily I jumped on narcsite this morning and saw the comment from you. Otherwise I probably would have missed it too.
I’m sorry you’re struggling right now. Is it anything you want to share? I’m glad you have another empath in your life. I know first hand how important it is to have the support of an empath. I want to say that it lessens the burden but its not quite that. With an empath on your side, you can feel the encouragement and things don’t seem insurmountable anymore. I have a dear friend who does that for me. With my empath daughter, I don’t like to lean on her but I find that when I spend time with her, I just feel better. I feel hope.
I would agree that one of the positive sides of Contagion is you just intuitively know.
I hope your daughter is doing better. Its scary to see them be targeted.
Empaths are way cooler than narcs for sure!!!
TS, I don’t recognize you 🙂 Is it still that closed girl? 🙂
PS I lost the thread about pistachios. I am tormented by the question, what can a psychopath do with pistachios? 🙂
The Narcissistic Personality Disorder is not abe to be treated. I always wonder if my ex’s Psychotherapist can see what I saw and knows just what he has sitting in front of him playing the victim. I would soooo love to know. He is a very experienced professional but she is a very, very experienced Narc.
That is correct Mandy, it is untreatable. Only through willingness to understand oneself and a genuine desire to change behaviours, can something be gained.
HG you are not there for treatment Persay, you are there as a means to collect a greater goal for yourself. Correct?
What about Sam Vatnim’s claims about cold therapy? He says his sample is 49. But promising?
Not at all. The premise is flawed as I have explained many times previously.
It is good on your part to recognize they do indeed wish to help you, serve you, albeit they profit from doing such. In essence, you can profit as well, in knowledge of your self and ways to maintain and control certain aspects of self when required. See the signs within yourself and heed them. All the while obtaining glorious fuel.
Does it matter, if others know who you are, or what their perception of you is? Does it not only matter what you know of yourself.
Everything thing is based on perception, even of ourselves. If you asked anyone who I was they would said, sweet, kind , caring, compassionate, honest, loyal, faithful, supportive, just.and so forth. But do I see only these things in my self. No, not always. I see the other side of self as well. The sadness, that I can hide from others view. The frustration or anger at expectations and lack of appreciation placed on me. The worry and doubt that can consume me. The nightmares and inability to sleep most often.
They see my smile, but not my sorrow. Because I can hide it. It is mine, it serves no purpose to show them, as it will only bring them worry, doubt and sadness too. Some in my inner circle know all this, but I am speaking of the masses. So, who others perceive us to be, is Simply who we show them we are. No one else has the true picture, but us.
When becoming angry at what others perceive you to be, perhaps, release all that negative emotion you feel and recognize, what others think can only harm you, if you allow it to. Think on who you know yourself to be. No one can change us. But ourselves. If we perceive no reason to change, then so be it. I seek change always, if I recognize a need in myself that would benefit from change. But, I seek to change no other person. I strive to accept them as they are. If they hurt me, then I must remove myself from them. But, that doesn’t change my perception of them through my hurt. If I have the understanding to know why they hurt me. To separate a person from their behaviour. That is the key. We are not out illness or our behaviour. We are simply the all encompassing knowledge of self. Whether we live in denial of self or acceptance of self.
Anyways, that is my philosophy on the topic.
Btw what was the photo you chose to look at in your doctors office, to distract your mind from questioning?
I would say that is a very important part of your treatment isnt it ?
I know its difficutl to speak about things that hurt. Its the same for codependants that have to go through childhood trauma. Super difficult to speak about . Takes mental preparation of months to be able to face those issues hard to talk about.
For many people, I have noticed that its very difficult to speak about their flaws. We all have parts we dont like about ourselves and of course this is not nice to hear. As I have been in relationships with Narcissits the last 16 years of my life, I have heard over and over and over again the 3 of them seemed to agree on how forgetful I am, hyperactive on the weekends and in general inpuctual. After having read about personal growth when I separated from my 14 year long N marriage, One day I decided to really change the last two.
Stop the excuses on being always late, blaming it on my full agenda, on my cultural background which is world wide know to be inpuctual ” mañana”…. accept how this annoyed the people and even how the people felt disrespected with this and thought about really how to change it.
What I want to tell you is that until you dont accept the flaws in yourself you wont be able to change them. Its all over in every theory of personal growth and change. Can I encourage you to follow the good Dr.s intentions ?
Is there not a way where you can talk about that without your construct being affected ? Is this the reason ? I suppose this is the reason ? Even if you know you have some very nice wonderful sides 🙂 🙂 . Like being so charming, so fascinating, such a good perfect writter, so funny, so elegant …….. etc etc etc etc ?
I wish you would talk to the doctor about that topic, hiding from yourself, and that you could drop your defenses and let the doctor in. That way you could both fight off the inner beast/creature, together. You have already said yourself that they want to help you, so what do you have to lose.. 😉 Take care, cheers.