Found Out to a Lesser Degree



“I know what you are.”

How many times have you wanted to tell the abuser you have become entangled with that you have finally worked out what they are? It might be during your period of abuse, it may be when you have cast aside, it might be when you have been hoovered back in, but you have eventually gained some insight and enlightenment and I know your desire to impart this knowledge is overwhelming. You want us to listen to you as you tell us that you now know what we are. You want us to listen and listen well.

It is a paradox that such a comment as that above causes greatest concern and alarm to the greater of our kind, but before I detail the effect that those words have on the greater narcissist, let us look at the lower functioning member of our exclusive club and how it affects him, the lesser narcissist. Those of our brethren who are of the lesser variety will have no comprehension of what they are and such a revelation is meaningless to them. Tell the lesser of our kind that you know what they are and in all likelihood you will be met with a dismissive shrug or a demand that you explain yourself. If you tell a lesser narcissist what they are and that you know, his lack of awareness will lead him to laugh at your use of the word and he will no doubt ask you what is for dinner or to grab him a beer. If you leave the matter there, it will be forgotten about and the insight you have offered will not even make a mark on the lesser narcissist. He knows he isn’t one of them. He probably would struggle to spell it. But perhaps you are not done. You are an empath after all and you want your narcissist, even though you may not know he is from the lesser school, to understand what he is. You also want him to know that you know. For too long you have been on the back foot and now you want to recover some power. You are a disciple of knowledge. You are an acolyte who worships at the altar of understanding and you have deemed that this time your narcissist, lesser even though he may be, should be aware of what he is and that you are in full possession of the facts. You are not going to let him shrug this one off. Should you then spell it out and describe that person as a narcissist they may not even know what one is.

“What do you mean I am a narcissist?” is the most likely response to such an allegation. He is not accepting it is he? You need to give him more. You need to put some flesh on the bones for him.

“You. You are a narcissist. You build people up, you make them feel special and loved and then for no reason you turn nasty. That’s what your kind do. You think of nobody but yourself. I have been nothing but good to you and you treat me like dirt.”

“That’s bullshit, who has been filling your head with such nonsense?”

“My friend Paula has read all about your kind after I was telling her about how horrible you are to me. She showed me a book and I have read it and you fit the profile. You are a narcissist, a horrible and empty abuser.”

Will he get the picture now? Will he have a breakthrough in understanding now that you know exactly what he is? Have you landed a blow and stripped him of his abusive powers?

The level manner in which you deliver these observations will result in one response and one response only from the lesser narcissist. The ignition of his fury. He will not have a moment of insight. He will not accept what you have said. He will not slink away wounded by being called a narcissist. The word narcissist is meaningless to him. He isn’t one though, he knows that much, but the issue of whether he is one or not is immediately pushed to the wayside. He knows that your use of the word and the context in which it has been used, along with your calm descriptions of “abuser”, “nasty” and “horrible” amounts to a criticism of him or perhaps more accurately described, he does not think this through and assess that you are criticising him. No, he only knows that what you have said is wrong and all of a sudden a ferocious rage has engulfed him and you have to be punished.

The reality is that your words have wounded him because he is better than you and you are weaker than him. He does not think this through because he is a lesser narcissist. He responds and reacts in a knee jerk fashion. Who are you to criticise someone as mighty as him? You should know your place. His churning fury is ignited and he cannot control it as it bursts from him like lava erupting from a volcano.

“Oh fucking Paula has been telling you has she? How many times have I told you to stay away from her? She’s nothing but a goddamn trouble maker. Why do you not do as you are told?” he shouts and moves towards you in a menacing fashion.

“She isn’t a trouble maker; she cares about me.”

“She is always interfering, I am sick of her and your other arsehole friends. I am the head of this house, not them, do you understand?”

“I am sick of you bullying me, leave me alone!” you shout back.

“If you did as you were told, I wouldn’t have to do this would I?” he yells and the all too familiar open-hand cracks you across the face as he loses control of the ignited fury and assaults you. You cry out in pain, hand raised to the already reddening mark on your cheek as he continues his ferocious tirade causing you to back away. Your attempt to get him to realise that you know has been lost, subsumed beneath the ferocious fury that you have ignited through his criticism of him. His response is to go on the attack and make you scared, upset and worried of what else might happen. He swipes another arm sending some ornaments on a shelf crashing to the floor causing your hypervigilant self to jump as the pottery smashes against the filed floor. The lesser narcissist does not know that he to do this, it is an immediate response, a defence mechanism to your criticism. He will not understand what you mean by calling him a narcissist. He will not accept it. As you try and explain what it means, if you do so in a calm and measured manner all you are doing is criticising him and this will always ignite his fury. With the lesser narcissist he is less able to regulate his response and most of the time, subject to where you are, he will respond with verbal and physical violence as he has to draw an immediate reaction from you to stop the wounding effect of your criticism. This fuel you pour forth as your tears fall or you shout at him enables him to address the wound you have created. He does not know any of this because he is lower functioning, he just responds. That is why when you tell a lesser narcissist you know what he is, it is a pointless exercise. He will either shrug it off since it is meaningless to him or if you pursue the point you will end up being attacked in some manner because you ignite his fury.

He cannot see it. He is not allowed to see it, but he must be allowed to defend himself and with most of our methods, the best form of defence is attack. So, what of those of us in the greater school? How is it different when you tell us that you know what we are? Well, that comes next. How many times have I told you to be patient? I do wish you would listen to me.

79 thoughts on “Found Out to a Lesser Degree

  1. seanstoirm says:

    I mean, I know what malign means. How does that work in these instances?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Malign is used in order to describe a type of narcissist (I also use Greater) one who is powered by the desire to punish as well as garner fuel.

      1. seanstoirm says:

        Well that’s unsettling.. I had him down as lesser/victim. Which books detail these traits?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Read Sitting Target. There are four books on the way which deal with cadres of narcissists – Somatic, Victim, Cerebral and Elite. Also one on the way about the three schools – lesser, mid-range and greater.

  2. seanstoirm says:

    🙂 this is spot on too! I actually went so far as to set up a website dedicated to detailing his sh*tiness – I did it out of defiance during one really bad fighting period, sort of a “See this? That’s you that is..”. He was devastated! He’d say ‘what is (the name of the site)?’ in the most sincerely hurt tone of voice I’ve ever heard him use. But anytime I read out some of what I’d written he’d sit very still listening closely. I only did that when I was at the end of my tether with his stupid accusations and assertions and I’d read out something I’d written about his behaviour ages before the fight. It was the only time I felt he really heard me speak. Was all about him I suppose. He’d say “what is this narcissist thing?’ in the same hurt tone. I think that might be what triggered the discard actually. HG, tonight I texted him. I listed the wrongs he committed when he left – we had nothing at all. I wasn’t angry, just stating facts and I said she was welcome to him and I hope he treats them better. Is he likely to leave me alone now?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      He will leave you alone for a period of time while he withdraws from being wounded and seeks fuel elsewhere. If opportunity arises however he will hoover you. It will be benign and then malign given what you have done.

      1. seanstoirm says:

        What do you mean by malign?

  3. Have you written it yet HG ?

    1. malignnarc says:

      Partially. Are you checking that I have done my homework now?

      1. Yes son, keep working !! I want to be so proud of you! So I can tell all my friends !

        1. malignnarc says:

          You sound very much like someone I used to know.

          1. Just do as you’re told !

          2. malignnarc says:

            Heard that one a lot too.

          3. You always have to have the last word HG !!! Well this really is the last time !!

          4. malignnarc says:

            No it’s not.

          5. Stop being so insolent HG !! THIS IS THE END OF IT !!! Flicks hair with left hand, flicks hair with right hand and fucks off !!

          6. malignnarc says:

            So you have long hair do you?

          7. Yes, I seem to recall that long hair is your favourite X

          8. malignnarc says:

            Indeed. What colour?

          9. Brunette, also your favourite j believe

          10. Brunette, ask your favourite I believe

          11. It’s almost next week now HG

          12. malignnarc says:

            I cannot argue with that Alexis.

          13. I’m sure you could

          14. malignnarc says:

            Ha ha, but I have no need to, because I know why you wrote it and it is anticipation of my works – a good thing.

          15. I know you know HG. I just wanted to see where you’d take it. But I fell asleep anyway ….

  4. Debbie says:

    The more I read, the more I learn! Everyday I feel the pain of missing him but then I think about all the crap and bs I went thru on a daily basis. Thank goodness for all of your daily posts and books that are a constant reminder of why I left. I did tell him he had a problem and it was him, not me that needed to change and he flipped out of course!! His daily complaining to me about me was killing me because everyone thinks I am a good caring person. Of course my one friend that told me to get out… she was on the receiving end of his insults! My other friend that was encouraging me to try and work it out of course was golden. Mind you he had no contact with either one and once I did finally leave and started reading articles on narcissist behavior, my encouraging friend felt horrible for encouraging me to stay! It is hard to see what is happening to you when you are in the situation but once you are out…my how things clear up! I still wonder if I will ever stop thinking of him and one day be able to have a normal..or somewhat normal relationship????

    1. malignnarc says:

      Eventually you will think of him less if you apply the NC techniques and over the passage of time. The real difference comes, from those who have spoken to me about this, is the lessening of the emotional response when you happen to think of him. It is a two-pronged process. You need to control your behaviour and thoughts so you think of him less so it becomes a learned behaviour and over time he will loom in your thoughts less and less. You also need to process out the emotion so that when you do occasionally think of him at some future point there is not the emotional reaction you have now.
      Yes, your friends no doubt were both well-intentioned and of course he would have labelled them as “Interfering Bitch” and “Golden Friend”. The latter may well have been a Lieutenant of his.

      1. jingercin says:

        Is this process detailed in No Contact? I’m struggling with this for N2, and trying to decide which to read next. I feel so angry for letting this happen again, I need to get past the feeling of wanting revenge.

        1. malignnarc says:

          It is and if you haven’t read them yet read Manipulated and Fuel.

  5. bethany7337 says:

    “Your words are meaningless to me…they are empty and full of anger”, wrote back my ex N when I called him out in the scathing diatribe I sent him.

    Exactly what you describe in this post. Uncanny!

    I still am unsure if he was a lesser or greater. He wasn’t violent physically and my instincts tell me he was aware that he was different…as well as some of his “tells” and “forewarnings”. However, he was not a well educated or successful person by any stretch…some of his traits mix on with Victim Narc, but mentally and manipulatively speaking he seemed more of the mid to upper with the Somatic N most of the time.

    HG, Is there one thing that can solve this question as to if he was/is lesser or not? I can’t seem to work it out.


    1. malignnarc says:

      Sounds mid-range to me.

  6. Here`s a hypothetical for you, HG.

    What would you do if your so-called victim was a smart little cookie and was able to provide proof of your true nature. What if she recorded you in one of your rages, unbeknownst to you, and then was able to show proof to everyone of how you really are?

    I`m assuming you`re going to tell me that would never happen, that you`re too smart and cunning to ever allow yourself to get caught in such a fashion, but what if?

    1. malignnarc says:

      Word would get back to me of this hypothetical treachery from one of my coterie or one of my lieutenants. My response would be swift and effective. The offending footage would be given to me by the victim under pain of further manipulation and abuse (believe me I usually have plenty on them which I have as leverage) and a propaganda campaign would be embarked on with the support of the contrite victim demonstrating how the footage was not fully representative and my rage was an entirely understandable response to her awful behaviour towards me. If anyone was unpersuaded by my response then they would be subjected to devaluation and then discarded and replaced. Everyone can be replaced.

  7. Becky says:

    I cannot tell you how much I appreciate your post. Thank you! I cancelled a surprise Birthday party yesterday bc I knew what I was in for. This will be the last Birthday I spend in this house (that was NEVER MY HOME). I have went through this for 13 years. Every time you share a post I cry while I read it. You describe things so accurately, that I feel like you are writing a chapter of my life. I am so scared of what is going to happen when I leave…. I was wanting to know if you have any advice?

    1. malignnarc says:

      Hello Becky, you are welcome. It appears that you have resolved to move on and therefore in doing so I would suggest that you read Departure Imminent, Escape and No Contact to begin with as there is plenty in those books which will assist you. If you have any further questions (and in order to save my fingers from repetition) based on specifics feel free to pose them and I will answer them from my perspective and I know that the posters here will contribute in appropriate terms also.

  8. Cara says:

    Oh, I know my narcissist is a narcissist (and a borderline personality), and i know she doesn’t think there’s anything wrong with her. Telling her I know what she is doesn’t accomplish anything though. She’s my own mother, and as I know what she is, she knows (or thinks she knows) what I am.

  9. I find that thought oddly comforting.

  10. mlaclarece says:

    It is very interesting reading this because prior to my enlightenment here, while in such a confused fog after numerous devalues / discards and then hoovers, as an Empath, you project that presenting factual information with examples of their behavior would send a Narc reeling. I mean if someone very close to me accused me of being narcissistic or any kind of manipulative, deceitful behavior with examples of what I have done, I’m sure I may be shocked at first but would immediately have the inclination to atone and make the situation right with the person again, including acknowledging their concerns. Treat others as you want to be treated – the Golden Rule right?
    I actually had discovered an article last summer in Psychology Today about the 12 signs you are dealing with a misogynist. Eventually researching that over several weeks led me to narcissism and finding H.G. This article also included the vital info that a misogynist’s brain subconsciously releases dopamine every time they hurt a woman hence giving that all addictive pleasure. That fueled my fascination with the chemical addictiveness of these kinds of relationships on both sides.
    But, during a heated argument shortly after finding that misogynist article, with my Narc I did accuse him of being one. I even emailed it to him with examples of his behavior.
    He did laugh it off and told me to stop acting like an expert from reading a preface in a Psych101 book.
    I imagine I’m the first person who actually labelled that kind of term on him though. Prior I think he would just hear he’s an A-hole, player, D-bag.
    Not sure if I’ve ever delivered the message in a way that it did deeply wound or criticize him?

  11. It’s quite eerie that this post was put up because a friend of mine were talking about exactly this last night, regarding someone we both know who is a narcissist and whom we recently outed as such.

    You are oceans away, but it is as if you were there and the entire conversation resulted in this post.


    1. malignnarc says:

      I am everywhere B&T.

  12. Lee says:

    It truly is like he is speaking through these pages. Mine knew what he was and it was probably the only honest thing he ever said to me. Now, he is gone to his next victim but he still occasionally texts or calls to see how I am and I no longer answer. As much as the desire is there to “speak my peace/piece”, I already know he will either turn it around on me or not listen or respond at all. Thank you so much for this site.

    1. malignnarc says:

      You are welcome and you have clearly grasped what you need to do.

  13. notquiteanarc says:

    I have told the N in my life what he is. At first this was met with laughter and denial. However, it must have caused a little curiosity because he read about the disorder and later admitted that he does see some of the traits in himself but still denied that he has NPD. Within the past two days he has admitted that he only loves himself and his daughter and that he can walk away from situations without remorse. I see these admissions as the beginning of acceptance and the first glimmer of honesty. Unfortunately or fortunately, depending on how I decide to look at it, last evening I was on the receiving end of the worst rage I’d ever witnessed. All brought on because I dared to counter his threat with a threat of my own. The chaos that is this man has been a part of my life for the past year and I’m actually relieved that I can go no contact without looking back. Some things just can’t be unsaid…

  14. So Sad says:

    Good afternoon HG .

    As you know ex N was quite handy with his fists as a way of shutting me up . He could never stand to be criticised or even be proved wrong .

    I know he doesn’t understand what he is , because it was, how can I put it, too easy for him, second nature in fact, . . It explains why he didn’t stop when I cried in pain if anything he just carried on wanting more fuel.
    I knew the signs when it was going to happen, something would be broken & if I didn’t stay quiet , he would loom over me literally screaming in my face , by that point I knew I was going to get hurt & I always was

    It also explains why the violence why was increasing in it’s frequency , I think . … It’s was all about the fuel , I had nothing left in the end Just numbness , but he kept squeezing a little bit more from me with his fists, by that point he’s lined his new target up so was getting the positive from her & all the negative from me .

    Wow HG you never fail to deliver . Though sometimes I feel so overwhelmed by it . Thank you again .

    1. malignnarc says:

      Good afternoon So Sad, yes it is usually (although not exclusively) a hallmark of the lesser functioning and unaware of our breed who use their fists to draw fuel.

  15. jingercin says:

    Thank you HG. It is as if you saw the questions running through my mind.

    1. malignnarc says:

      You might be surprised at how often I hear that jingercin.

      1. jingercin says:

        I would not be surprised. I can see your use of skills very clearly within every post/reply you make.
        You have learned to read between the lines very well….and you like to see if others can do the same.

  16. Seriously, wow!…439,956 hits
    You have many attendees dropping by to your lectures…

    1. malignnarc says:

      Marvellous, let them keep coming and in greater numbers.

  17. Good Evening HG (or rather Afternoon for your good self)
    I’ve signed up for the “HG Tudor” course some time ago now and I never fail to honour my commitments. I’ve chosen my favourite seat and as is my design, I am always on time and attentive; as I am an eager student. My grades and report cards hve always reflected such dedication via my results. I thirst for knowledge and understanding of others. I’m never afraid to ask questions. I’d much rather risk appearing stupid, than actually being so.
    I have nothing, but time. And welcome, not only whatever pace you choose to dispense our lessons, but am more than happy to give you free reign on their content. I also know it serves no true benefit to be otherwise. I truly believe we are all each best understood, in our natural environment, in any case. As we each, are not always truly in the same mind set often; this shows further understanding as to our behaviour and reactions to ourselves and others.
    I already have a stack of accumulated mental notes, that I have taken throughout my lifetime; some of them were much more hidden than I had realized; until I started your “class”.
    Ready when you are Sir…

    1. malignnarc says:

      Excellent CE, where is my apple by the way?

      1. My post disappeared, as I stopped midway to answer emails in order to prepare the workload for my guys tomorrow. Book work now done!
        Now…back to that apple. As I’d imagine you’d have quite a stock pile of many types of “apples” that they would simply be left to rot, whilst you tended to your many joyous tasks and more intriguing distractions. So, I see little point in offering such a gesture. I guess my humble gratitude, attentiveness and contributions will have to suffice.

        1. malignnarc says:

          I will take those. And expect an apple tomorrow CE.

          1. Ever the incorrigible and insatiable gentleman 😜
            Good night HG.

  18. Alexissmith2016 says:

    HG this is something I’ve fantasised about many times !!

    I realised it would not be a good idea so just let the fantasies play out in my head. And I’m so pleased i did as thanks to you I now have the rule book. I can play and although I may well lose in the end hahaha I can at least keep playing for an extended period of time with lots of small wins along the way !!

    I cannot wait to hear about the more astute N. I can’t be patient for that !!

    Plus how can we distinguish between lesser as in less intelligent and lesser as in less malign ?

    My lower level N new exactly what he was,he was highly intelligent but less toxic.

    1. malignnarc says:

      That would make him mid-range,on the cusp of greater.

      1. How long til you update HG ??

        1. malignnarc says:

          What the next part of this article?

          1. malignnarc says:

            About a week. Bring your popcorn.

          2. Agh ! Too long !! I don’t like to be kept waiting HG 😉

          3. malignnarc says:

            Ha ha tough. Learn some patience!

          4. I’ve already bought the popcorn !

          5. malignnarc says:

            Excellent. Where’s mine?

          6. Come to mine, close the door and I’ll show you 😉

          7. malignnarc says:

            So tempting.

          8. HhHa I am Phil Taylor to your Eric Bristow !! So come inside and see what’s waiting for you…………. And thank you for all your help 😉

          9. malignnarc says:

            Ha ha, well at least you did not suggest I am Jockey Wilson !!!

          10. Haha if I actually knew anything about darts I may well have done 🙂

          11. malignnarc says:


          12. Woo hoo! Sounds like a plan 😆

  19. nikitalondon says:

    HG by the way I am very patient but I am still waiting for some continuations… Like “Rote Kappli” … Hope this continuation does not take so long…

  20. nikitalondon says:

    This was a great explanation. Makes sense and helpful to get clarity in this lesser and greater classification which is not always so easy to understand and apply.
    As I see it makes a big difference in how a narcissit acts and reacts. Its really really interesting.
    On the other side I never told anybody you are a narcissit but I did have once a conversation that I started.
    ” i am a codependant” and codependants stay in relationships that hurt…
    It ended up in a fruitful discussion in how labels do more damage than good and on how everybody has demonds and we have ti learn to live with them.
    We are all humans.

    1. Margo says:

      They are not. They don’ t feel the same and they don’t react as most humans do. They have a part of the brain ( amygdala) smaller. They cannot feel the emotions that make us humans. They believe they are superior to us so they treat us a ” things”, sometimes funny things but most of the times as rubbish. Once we are used …..

      1. nikitalondon says:

        Hi Margo

        This doesn’t make them less humans. They have their own emotions and feel their own way. Do you think they are kind of robots on earth?
        They dont get stuck in pain and sadness nor they feel the same happiness we do but they feel something else similar to what we feel in their own way.
        That is what HG says they feel superior and entitled and treat people for a purpose, but also give their way as long as you are supply… Giving not with love but im other ways… Its a total different human world but still human.

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