The Seven Sins of Sorrow

 

1. I am sorry I went away.

You probably said something that I did not like, you may not have said anything at all, but you did something which criticised me and I wanted to punish you so I disappeared. I am not going to tell you what I was doing whilst I was gone but I only thought about you when I looked at your pleading texts and missed calls. The rest of the time I spent it with your predecessor who I wanted to be with because, well, she hadn’t criticised me. Of course, she spoilt it and that is why I have come back to you pretending to be sorry. I need your fuel again, so here I am with my false remorse.

2. I am sorry I didn’t listen.

I didn’t listen to you because you have nothing of importance to say. Ever. That is compared to me. You should listen to me more because I do not like it when you do not. In fact I hate it. I rarely hear the words you say anyway, you are actually wasting your breath. I am far too focussed on the emotion that is spewing from you, your hurt, your frustration, your anger and your hatred. That is what I want to listen to. That gives me the fuel that I crave. I will pretend I will listen to you in the future so you provide me with some positive fuel for a while and then I will become deaf to what you have to say once again.

3. I am sorry that I hit you.

You made me do it because you will not do what I want and you will not give me what I need. I am torn between needing you and being disgusted by the fact that I am bound to someone as pathetic as you, when I am so brilliant. I am concerned that what I did may be detected by others and consequently the façade that I have created and maintained to everyone outside these four walls will be damaged. I am concerned I may have to spend some of my precious time charming law enforcement if you are treacherous enough to report me.

4. I am sorry I was unfaithful.

If you paid me more attention I would not have to do it, or at least, perhaps not as often. It was your fault that I went elsewhere because you do not admire me like you used to do. You should do so. Everyone admires me and you should be no different. I am irritated that I got caught because I thought I had covered my tracks and been cleverer than you. I am annoyed because you have scared off the other woman with your histrionics and now I am going to have to use my time and energy to find someone else now. I had a great little set-up there and you have ruined it with your interference. Just as you always spoil everything.

5. I am sorry I wasn’t there for you.

I really cannot be bothered having to support you when you are unwell. I find it a waste of my time because everything should be about me, not you. I do not like to be reminded of weakness. I see too much of myself when I do. I need my energies and time to carry out my machinations and gather fuel, not to play nurse maid to you. I do not care that you have looked after me, that is your role. I am too great to tend to you, it is beneath me. I am concerned that my lack of caring and attentiveness has proven the last straw however and my false contrition is purely designed to stop you leaving me.

6. I am sorry I am not a better person.

I am better, way better than you and everyone else, but I know you are fixated with the idea of making me better, changing me and healing me, so I say this to make you feel sorry for me and to hint at the fact that I want to change and become someone better. I am never going to change but I do love to keep you hanging on thinking that I will as this stops you leaving me and deserting me when I need my fuel. I will keep mentioning this so you stick around until such time as I have lined up someone else and I have drained you, then you disappear for all I care. In the meanwhile I will continue to insinuate that I am capable of change and improvement so that you do not go anywhere else. I need my fuel after all.

7. I am sorry for myself.

At least this one is true. I feel very sorry for myself and with good reason. I am just trying to get through life and deal with the jealous people, the envious people and the horrible people who are trying to hurt me. I know there are hundreds of them and I have done nothing to them, yet they insist on trying to hurt me. It is a terrible burden to carry, knowing that there are so many people out there against you, especially when you are as a wonderful and as brilliant as I am. I need your pity, your sympathy and your empathy. Give it to me. It is all fuel. I do not deserve to be treated like this do I? I am human too you know.

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133 thoughts on “The Seven Sins of Sorrow”

  1. Brutally honest, as always, and I love it.

    That’s one thing I don’t get though – the physical abuse. Why would you even bother risking it? I suppose often your so-called victims are too scared to go to the authorities, but I would think some might, just to spite you because they’re so fed up.

    I’ve seen men with the finest of reputations brought to their knees by women they assaulted physically or sexually. And there was nothing they could do to turn the tables because the evidence was there in black and blue.

    I would assume you take care to inflict physical harm in areas that aren’t obvious (the fact, for example), but if you ever lost control and slipped up….I don’t know why you’d bother taking the risk at all.

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    1. As I have stated previously, I do not engage in physical violence because I regard it as beneath someone of my manipulative abilities and also because of the evidential problems that it includes but I know plenty of my kind do use it, hence its inclusion.

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      1. Hi Bloodandthunder.

        I was physically abused on a regular basis & narc was never concerned where his fists landed or the evidence his bruises left at the time. His only aim was to control me, and to stop me contacting the authorities by locking doors ,dragging me back into the house if I tired to escape and stopping any means of me contacting the outside world by either hiding my phones & laptop or destroying them obviously at the time he was concerned about the authorities but it was never enough for him to stop the violence .

        As for the police, at the beginning of it all I was reluctant to get them involved , not out of fear of him, but I was always convinced that he would stop, that the last assault would be the last , that he would see the bruises & feel some sort of remorse , enough not to do it again , but he always did & it became more frequent & more extreme .
        He was arrested many times , fingerprinted , locked up for hours on end & interviewed EVEN that didn’t stop him .Back then in the UK the victim had to be willing to press charges & I never was until the final assault . It took me over two months to make the decision because I was worried about the effect it would have on his parents but it had also given him two months to prepare his lies & the police believed them . He was never charged , despite all of the history they had .

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  2. Everything is not about you. The world does not revolve around you. It’s just amazes me how you treat people and have no remorse. You’re the one that doesn’t have a conscience, but you accuse others of not having one. You’re the liar, cheater, backstabber, impossible, frustrating, utterly exhausting, vile, unaccountable, unforgiving, cruel, unbelievable pathetic creature that you accuse everyone else of being.

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      1. I have a question? Have you ever cared about anyone besides yourself? Because from my observation people like you only care how they feel and how people make them feel. They don’t even care about their own families. I know one that travels state to state every two years and never communicates with any family. He even went out of the country supposedly for love and then went back a second time because he wasn’t getting enough fuel from anyone in his State. He’s a wanderer and burns every bridge in his past. Takes advantage of every one in his present and somehow manages to make it most of the time without a real job.

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      2. Are you certain you have a question? You seem unsure!
        I care about everybody I seduce to the extent that I want them flowing with positive fuel.
        We have not been designed to care, if we did, we could not function. That is how it is. It is not my fault. Yes, the example you give is representative of the way many of our kind behave.

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      3. You’re not designed to care? Then the answer I come up with is that you have a dysfunctional brain and you don’t have the ability to think like a normal person. Oh, and to everyone out there.. if someone tells you that their favorite show is Dexter….RUN….

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      4. Interestingly I can think like a normal person and then some. What I don’t do is feel like a normal person. I am different.
        I have never watched Dexter, I am usually watching American Psycho, Angered. What’s one of your favourite films?

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      5. Well, when someone makes a comment like this “I could kill you like Dexter and wrap you in plastic” randomly you should run and never look back. As for favorite film…hmm..I like romantic comedies and action films. One of my favorite TV shows is the Blacklist.

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      6. I don’t know about recommending the Blacklist to you. People either love it or they hate it. I started watching it because I like James Spader and then got hooked. The bad guy usually gets what he wants except in the last episode.

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    1. Hello Angered…..are you new? If so, welcome….

      ‘Oh, and to everyone out there.. if someone tells you that their favorite show is Dexter….RUN….’

      lol! N3 was a forensic criminalist before I met him…and loved that show, Dexter! Something told me to run when he told me he brought doughnuts to his new job most days…..lol

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    2. HG….You MUST watch Dexter…I thought ALL N’s, sociopaths, and psychopaths loved that show?

      It’s on Blu-Ray, HG….be sure to start it from the beginning!

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      1. Dexter. I too find it fascinating. It is indeed gruesome in many ways and I think the psychological and moral aspects are what interest me most.
        Medical procedures can certainly appear gruesome, but I am used to them due to my previous employment. And they have always been intriguing to me, as its purpose is to heal people, prevent disease or tell a story about their life and death (autopsy)
        I have a love of medicine, psychology and criminal investigation and various legal aspects, despite the morality issues it often presents to me that I struggle with. I can see why many brilliant surgeons are narcissists. Instant decision making often has to be made without delay and conscience or emotional hindrances. It gives me plenty of food for thought and develops my understanding and compassion of and for others.
        Dexter is a series I very much enjoyed and would watch again in the future. (Something I rarely do)

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      2. You’re right, Jinger!
        If all N’s lived by a “code”…perhaps there would be fewer hearts broken?

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  3. Except that you’re never really sorry. You’ve learned to pretend you’re sorry you hit me, especially if a cop happens to be around. As in “I’m really sorry, Officer, I lost my mind for q minute & lost control of myself…I don’t normally strike other people”.

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  4. 8. I’m sorry I said that. You were feeling a bit too good today so I needed to take you down a notch or two. You don’t get to feel happy…unless it’s my doing of course. Or, perhaps you were criticizing me for some perceived injustice doled out from me so I had to respond with the most cruel, hateful and soul shattering words I can think of. Of course, you’ve given me all the ammo I need to spew the meanest words because you e shared your deepest vulnerabilities with me because you thought I actually cared.

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    1. I got that treatment 2 weeks ago. It will be interesting if I get one of his vapid sorry’s in the next month or so…

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  5. We are all humans you are right and if you made those mistakes in the past they can always be solved.
    My exes told me they learned from their mistakes and our mistakes and they apply this knowledge to improve their lives and they are also N’s like you. They dont do this for fuel nor to see my reaction becuase we already have a good relationship so they say it because they mean it.
    Because life and situations make all people change, Cods, narcs, non narcs etc.

    I know you can become a better person. Is not just for me hanging in there . Even though you will always be a narcisisist you can improve in all of the above to become a better narcisissit. We can all become better no matter what label we have. they just need help and to be accompanied.
    Postivie fuel is good fuel and negative fuel can be turned into scolds where everybody learns from.
    Everybody needs and deserves another opportunity . Also you.
    In pairs, in two, people can fall and stand up together many many times. The problem comes when you are left alone but this wont happen.

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      1. I do believe, not only because my spiritual thinking enables me to believe but also because I have seen it.

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      2. H.G. I get when you say you are designed the way you are…to a point. Yesterday you reinforced to me again that you choose to not want to be different. But you have spent so much substantial time with the doctors. You have been gifted by your brilliance and being so self-aware. Aren’t you curious at all if your interactions with people did not have to lead to their feelings along what Angered wrote above? To not seek to draw the negative fuel that makes you feel omnipotent which leads to lying, manipulating, hurting. You have past loves who would probably still take you back for another go around.
        Your legacy will also be that. Not just the work here and the books and the blog.

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      3. Well, I guess you can add that your book “Deal With It” which can include a daily checklist for one to maintain optimum high potency fuel for the long-term.
        I just believe someone would have gotten it right by now.

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      4. Wow! Not everyday a girl like me gets a request like that from a Dark Sith Lord who can put his pants on faster than Batman! I’ll have to sleep on it.

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      1. Mine learned. They are with somebody else but its okay. I could not continue by their side neither. Me and them we learned after separation… And anyway it is a good relationship If I am not dating anybody they are super nice to me and if I am dating then they are administratively nice. So its okay. If it did not work out it didnt… Many normal couples dont work out neither. Important is to learn.
        My ex husband still has more steps towards controlling his rage when comfronted with triggers but has made HUGE milestones

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      2. Bethany, after a 17 year silent treatment….N1 wooed me back…and each time he would rage, cut me off in mid sentence, or put down my life….I’d get quiet….and he’d soften….and he’d say…’I’m learning…please be patient…, I really want this to work this time..’

        Nikita, they MIGHT even mean those words for a hot minute….but THEY DON’T WANT TO CHANGE! This behavior works for them and is comfortable! To rationalize this to themselves…they will just blame YOU for being…..x, y, or z…..

        Personality disorders are very much a part of a person’s personality.
        With depression (clinical)….it’s like a big, black, and heavy blanket falls over the patient…and they are weighed down by it…but with treatment…and meds..they can eventually shake it off…

        PERSONALITY DISORDERS are way different….instead of that blanket covering the patient temporarily…(giving the patient the option to be free of it)…..these disorders are KNITTED within every fiber of of the patients being. Have you knitted before, Nikita? The labor involved in HOOKING each red thread of yarn within the black scarf you are knitting…..it’s time consuming…but it’s in there forever…but….not really. You COULD take each thread of red yarn out…it’s possible….but you ‘d ruin the scarf…and it would be hell putting in all back together again…it might take years….and you might not ever get all the red yarn out….

        It’s best to leave the scarf just the way it is……and just go out and find another black scarf.

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      3. I’m truly beginning to dislike the word interesting. So many N’s I know use it standardly, (actually, only the more intelligent ones if I think about it) without further comment or expression of their thoughts, when listening to others vent their heartfelt stance.. Such relative silence is often so loud, that you can almost hear their mind ticking over.

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      4. Using the word interesting is a powerful and affective communication tool which affords creating space between the people communicating. It can be used as a cue towards self reflection, very similar to the use of a pause. Men of Silk and women of the likes, also use this in the justice system, and of course art, uses it as well and justice and art are not separate. Using the word interesting is also an empowering utilization of language when dealing with an emotional manipulator, it again creates space, a safe distance ( psychological) from the manipulator, sending the message that one is present in the communication, as opposed to being completely at the mercy of the other, and that they are exercising their right to believe or disbelieve what is being said.

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      5. Point noted. It definitely has it uses. I have used it myself, as you speak of.

        I just have encountered alot of said manipulators using it of late. Everyone is indeed entitled to their opinion and I prefer to hear theirs; even if, ultimately, we need to agree to disagree. I understand others are not always of this stance.
        Thank you.

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      6. Fascinating! I love your comments when you share them. You are a nice presence and like the Ying to all the Yang here!

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      7. HG…FULL DISCLOSURE:

        I am not a mental health professional. The “knitting” analogy was explained to me by a Licensed Therapist.

        I thought it might help others understand that “changing an N” is almost impossible….

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    1. No. He. Can’t.

      What part of his not WANTING to change don`t you understand, Nikita?

      HG is completely at ease with who he is. He embraces it, accepts it, flaunts it, even. He`s completely unabashed and unapologetic. He doesn`t see anything wrong with being the way he is.

      He`s only in therapy because he doesn`t want to suffer the negative consequences that NOT going to therapy would bring upon him. He`s not sorry for whatever he was accused of that landed him in hot water – he doesn`t believe he did anything wrong in the first place!!!!!

      Some narcs can change yes, I believe that for sure. But when it comes to HG, it won`t happen unless he wakes up one day and says, “Yeah the whole narcissist thing isn’t really working out for me so I think I better try something different.” And from where I’m sitting, it’s working out just fine for him and there’s no chance of that happening any time soon.

      You say we’re all human and while that may be the case for most, HG is something other. He’s not human – not by any stretch of the imagination. And I know he’ll take that as a huge compliment (mainly because it is) because being human is so bloody mundane and ordinary and he is none of those things.

      I find much of what you write to be contradictory.

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      1. Exactly!! Narcs don’t think that they do anything wrong. Their “reality” is insane to us. And MOST have no intentions of ever changing. They don’t go to therapy because they feel they need help either.

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      2. I am not at all comtradicting myself!!! I said all narcs are human, they deserve a second opportunity or third or fourth to change and combine the quest for fuel not with a destructive pattern.
        They can learn how to comtrol rage, they can learn how to communicate better, they can learn to teach their partners to learn to talk not in a critical way, to avoid triggers. I have seen it.
        Why do you say HG cand learn any of this?

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      3. I didn`t say he can`t, I said he doesn`t want to.

        He can correct me if I am wrong.

        I agree those who want to change, probably can. But, in case you missed it, HG has made it CRYSTAL CLEAR that he has no interest in changing his behavior or himself at al. He loves being the way he is.

        At the risk of sounding callous, if you`re going to be dumb enough to sit there and give someone like HG a second, third, fourth, fifth chance, after he`s repeatedly told you he won`t change because there`s nothing wrong with him, then I can`t feel sorry for you if he destroys you.

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      4. Hi B&H
        I have actually interpreted something different from his comments. It is true that he cant change who he is or his grandiosity but to modify ways of communicating, or rages, i dont believe he would say no to any opportunity of change.
        And anway introspective work provokes changes in any person which bring a positive outcome.
        Your words did sound a little harsh and anyway why would he destroy me? Until now its only good 😃😃🌔 So I cant complain and anyway I actually cant complain can I? 😝

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      5. Dont be so harsh on him. We know it narcissists are not out to destroy people.
        I always said some are wonderful people and I am sure HG belongs in this group.
        I can only say positive about him. I enjoy alot reading and sharing with HG and I admire him for alot of things he is and you cant deny that this blog is great cant you ❤️

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      6. That comment, “Yeah the whole narcissist thing isn’t really working out…” literally made me laugh out loud at my desk. But everything you wrote is on point. I agree. I have asked many, many question to H.G. as far as if therapy has altered the way he thinks about his machinations or behavior towards the intimate people in his life, etc. He never wavers in his answers. It faithfully remains no or he chooses not to and I definitely know to just hear those words and listen with a Narc.
        He wants to create a legacy through this to inform, educate, enlighten people of what is inside the mind of a malignant Narc. That will require him to stay exactly the same.
        There are no unicorns or rainbows in a happy ending with one.

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      7. Yes, Clarece, that is exactly what I am trying to say.

        And it`s one of the things I appreciate about HG – his absolute honesty about who he is and the reasons behind why he does what he does.

        The whole “we’re all human” argument is totally moot when dealing with someone like HG. That is the freaking point!!!!! He isn’t human. He makes that abundantly clear.

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      8. He is blood and the hunter.
        He is human, all people on this earth are human and all humans desire closeness and care. There is nothing else to it.

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  6. I am listening to my ipod randome and suddenly this song came up and made me think about such a situation like the above. It takes about a girl but in general the message is below. In addition the rythm is really really good.

    You don’t have to be alone,
    I am always here for you.
    You don’t have to be alone,
    All you have to do is call.
    You don’t have to be alone,
    I will always be around.
    You don’t have to be alone,
    Alone, alone, alone, alone, alone, alone.
    You don’t have to be alone.

    Tonight we’ll wipe your tears away
    I’ll share your hurt, I’ll share your pain
    When you call I’ll run through snow and rain
    Now on my knees, here’s what I’ll say

    You don’t have to be alone,
    I am always here for you.
    You don’t have to be alone,
    All you have to do is call.
    You don’t have to be alone,
    I will always be around.
    You don’t have to be alone,
    Alone, alone, alone, alone, alone, alone.
    You don’t have to be alone.

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    1. Are you recieving any therapy? I only ask because i am concerned that you are not really hearing what HG is telling us about his “kind”. You say you have a good relationship with the Ns but in reality, correct me if Im wrong HG, you have a superficial relationship with them. It may be more to you, as it always is with us norms. Have you ever thought that they are just using you to triangulate with the other girls they are with? And if so how do you feel to, without intentionally doing so , be the cause of such pain to another woman?

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      1. Hi ISEEU

        No I am not in therapy, as a codependant I should but too much work and kids make it not possible currently.
        No I dont have a superficial relationship. One is my ex husband of 14 years, with the otherome I dont have neither a superficial relationship. Its a friendship, of course it has its limits and boundaries and sometimes they get on my nerves and me on theirs 😂😂 but good.
        The girls. One has a very good relationship with me. We like each othef very much and Will never forget she directed me to the best doctor specialized in iron. I really really like this lady very much and she likes me. The other one I dont know but everytime the kids do cookies or things with her, she sends me with them something wrapped. No issue here. Why does everything have to be bad with an N??? Here I prove you . No triangulation!

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      2. I can complete my story that I am no triangulation as some weeks ago there was a family event in axrestaurant and the current wife if my ex and me we chatted and chatted And had a good time like for an hour. And with the other one she is always being considerate of what would I thin if she does this with the kids. She told the kids that when she meets me she wants us to have a good relationship.

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  7. Day 1 Gray Rock. I cannot go No Contact at this time because I still have to work for him. I work from home THANK GOD. I started working for him when I left him almost exactly a year ago when he swore that he would prove to me that he could be trusted. I had found out about his cheating with dozens of women…always during the day and when I was out of town, of course…for at least 3 solid years of the 7 years we were together by going through his iphone backup. I had no idea. I have been through HELL this last year as we have tried to “reconcile” and I have tried to go No Contact at least 15 times…always drawn back in. His fury and rage and anger at me for having unmasked him has been something to behold. I thought that my love and my loyalty and forgiveness would get us through this. The day that I found out what a psychopath/narcissist was is the day that I came to understand. Reading your books has helped me enormously. And now I have found your blog. I will read it each day to be reminded of what I am dealing with in almost perfect detail…I do NOT want to be lied to, betrayed, berated and demeaned – not one more second. Thank you for sharing yourself. I am now empowered.

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    1. Hello Triple D, thanks for your post and yes daily reading of the blog does provide people with the necessary reminder of what you are dealing with and also to maintain the resolve. You repeated attempts at NC come as no surprise, it is rare for anybody to achieve it first time of asking.

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  8. It is important to ask the question of where one is at within their healing process and how this relates to this blog. The way in which the books have been written by this particular author affords the reader a clear explication into the behaviorism exhibited by those whom experience and suffer with narcissistic wounding. These works have shared the spectrum of narcissism and provided important information of which readers are able to use as an identifying tool. To be able to identify is crucial to the work involved in healing. Having said this, the work which follows requires support, and this particular forum is not structured for the purpose of the work that is required in order to healthily navigate through this type of abuse. The misuse of this forum can be and has shown to be detrimental in relation to where one is within the healing process.

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    1. Can you give more detail and explanation to your last sentence on how this could be detrimental? Where do you recommend finding the right support to go in conjunction with this (besides a therapist who specializes in treating trauma bonding, post traumatic stress and narcissism?

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      1. There are many risks involved, however highlighting such things as re-enforcing trauma bonds, shifting addiction from one source to another, participating in thin boundary behaviours, are just a few that create psychological defenses which both protect and inhibit the healing process. It can be difficult due to financial difficulties to obtain therapy, however there are online forums which are available that create a safe environment for those seeking help with their process. One may also connect into their local mental health organizations.

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  9. This just does about sum up what life is like with an N.
    However, we shouldn’t feel bad about this; Ladies…
    Not at all! We were lied to, conned, and basically given an Oscar worthy performance by someone that PRETENDED TO LOVE US.

    And Ladies…they really don’t win. We eventually work them out…our hearts heal…our anger fuels us on to become even BETTER WOMEN!

    Think about it….THEY always lose in the end….they lose a great woman, a loyal woman, a good relationship with someone that would have ALWAYS had their back….nursed them back to health when ill…was there for them when they mourned…were fired or laid off…
    THEY ALWAYS LOSE!

    N1 and N2 moved on…to nice women…and I am not bragging..but those women are half the woman I am. I worked those to N’s out…so it wouldn’t have worked much longer anyways…

    N3….I still hear is on Match (I have him blocked…my single friends tell me he’s ALWAYS logged on)…won’t find what he had with me. I know it’s all about fuel. But, ALL N’S want the BEST of everything…that includes fuel….we broke up last August…and he STILL can’t find my equal….HIS LOSS!

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  10. American Psycho is not only one of my favourite films, but also one of my favourite books. Did you know it’s on Broadway now, though I imagine it would be quite tame compared to the book and film.

    I loved Bateman’s character (not to mention Christian Bale is incredibly, incredibly hot), but he was not in control. His mask of sanity slipped numerous times, to the point where you sort of end up feeling sorry for him because he could be so much better at what he does if he only applied himself more.

    In any case, I have to return some videotapes….

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    1. Yes it is one of my favourite books as well. I enjoyed the film but wonder what they could have done with a larger budget. Bale was outstanding as he always is, he is my favourite actor by far. When you have returned those video tapes let me show you my new business card, picked it up from the printers this morning.

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      1. The book was so well written. Bale saved the movie which was meh. He is my fave acror too. He doesn’t do as well as a Narc. Number 3 made me laugh. My ex never hit because he would never hurt me.

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    2. That character missed alot of love. Even the girlfriend he had was useless in providing some closeness. If you analyze it when did you see the character having somebody care for him… Or hugging him… It was a cold life. The only one who more of less did was his secratary and she saved herself. I think the message of that movie is that the person who is in so much pain has to pass the pain to the others and that the lack of love and compassion breeds people who are in pain and therefor give pain onto others.

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      1. Fair observations Nikita. His secretary,Jean, was in love with him. As part of the promotion for the film back in 2000 , Bret Easton Ellis (the author) created an email exchange between Patrick Bateman and various parties which revealed he and Jean actually married and then divorced. They had a son PB Jnr. I used to read the e-mails at lunchtime.

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      2. The one scene I found so interesting was when he had Jean in his apartment and he wanted to hurt her (standing behind her aiming nail gun at her head), but he let her go.

        He told her he was pretty sure he was going to hurt her, she got up and left and….he let her.

        Jean was in love with him. She would have loved him. If only…..

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  11. There is an idea of a HG Tudor; some kind of abstraction. But there is no real me: only an entity, something illusory. And though I can hide my cold gaze, and you can shake my hand and feel flesh gripping yours and maybe you can even sense our lifestyles are probably comparable… I simply am not there.

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      1. I did. For some reason I read a lot of that in the bath. No idea why. It is an excellent novel and I like what Ellis did to make it seem authentic with the publicity etc beforehand.

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  12. Hi T
    No i have never knitted before nor I will as it is aomething I dont like at all but I know what it is . I have seen in the trains people sitting besides me knitting and I have carefully observed.
    I know what you mean that narcissism is something that stays. Its hooked yes but like I said, I have seen chamges in attitude and very much long term for example in rage comtrol. So this is why I dont believe in condemnning somebody who suffers from NPD to eternal unhappiness.
    Of course there might be some people who dont want to change but sooner or later the majority wiöl change their most destructive behaviour with some kind of technique.

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    1. They only alter their behavior if it serves a purpose. It is never to atone to those they’ve hurt. And what about the 2nd, 3rd or 4th chances to those who become so introverted, withdrawn, untrusting, and damaged they never fully recover? Recovering addicts are to make amends to those they hurt and it teaches humility and makes them face their actions, see the damage, and learn to take accountability. Very respectable those that take it seriously. The 2 need to go hand in hand.

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      1. Of course clarence.
        I also had to go through recovery. Only because I speak like I do doesnt mean I did not suffer. I did and alot. Believe me.
        And it took me at least two years to come to the point where I am now. I also recovered from abuse!

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      2. Yes and you did that because deep in your core you recognized something was amiss and you decided to research and make changes to bring more love into your love and filter out the toxic. A Narc is skilled at dissociating any guilt or shame about betrayal, dehumanization and antisocial behavior such as pathological lying. This creates blinders so they don’t have the capacity to understand how cruel they are being. As H.G. as said, if one is telling you they “want” to change it is only in the moment and basically lip service to get you to think kindly of them again.

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      3. I would not have labelled my marriage as toxic…. But extremely egoistic… My ex did change from a rageful person punching wholes in the wall to containing rage and morover he learned to avoid triggers of rage… It was not me but when things did not work out his way. Like traffic jams or if something would burn in the stove or the kids screamed… He would just explode and of course blame me..
        I believe in learning…this behaviour afterwards.

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      4. Yes, spot on. Exactly.

        They will change their behavior when they see it is more beneficial to them to do so. If they want to avoid facing some dire consequence, like HG.

        There is always a reason behind the change and it rarely has to do with making amends to the people they’ve hurt. It’s simply to avoid some unfavorable outcome or consequence.

        I absolutely think HG could make great strides in therapy if he wanted to. But he doesn’t want to. It’s really that simple.

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      5. I mean, I’ll always try a different angle and ask him about therapy, but I pretty much know the answer… lol

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  13. Thanks Guys. I very much enjoyed reading the comments on this post and your insights. Thank you for sharing. There is much to be learned or simply reinforced, in every exchange.

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  14. Absolutely, Nikita. The NPD will never leave, but they can practice anger management, counting to 100 before reacting, not blaming their partner for everything, taking 12-24 hours of a MUTUAL cooling off period before making a decision; or having a talk about something with us, OR EVEN BETTER….letting us know (if they know they have NPD) they have NPD and give us a choice in the matter…and then nobody would get hurt…because they’d know that the person with NPD is just reacting the only way they know how.

    I’m in my 40’s and I have a MANY relationships. Marriage was not on my mind until my late 30’s….so I enjoyed my life. I traveled, dated, I have many friends. I can honestly say…the only post breakup dramas I have had have been with N’s. I have been smeared and betrayed at epic levels by these people…..NO OTHER EX BF’S HAVE ONE BAD WORD TO SAY ABOUT ME. We are still all civil…I’m friends with their new gf’s and wives, and they would move the world for me if I needed it. This proves to me….the problem ain’t me. I’m far from perfect. I may not be everybody’s cup of tea. However, I am honest, kind, generous, loving, assertive, intelligent, and I still look pretty darn good for my age!

    I refuse to believe any of the nonsense I was smeared with by N1 and 2 when we split….that is why I always mention my good qualities…because N1 and N2 tried to strip them from me…..paint me as something they WANTED me to appear to be….otherwise…how could they explain their downgrades to their friends and family?

    Don’t be fooled, Ladies….they KNOW how hot AND empathetic you are when they pick YOU! N’s INSIST on the BEST OF EVERYTHING!!! Don’t let them snow you in the devaluation….THEY PICKED US BECAUSE we are the total package….and let’s be honest….A TOTAL PACKAGE is hard to find and hard to top! I doubt HG is kicking it with an edentulous, frumpy, uneducated lady this weekend…I don’t care how good the fuel is…HG has excellent taste in everything!

    Nikita, don’t EVER worry about how someone paints an N. They’ve ruined more reputations and assassinated the characters of more people than you can count….they are unable to exit a woman’s life without leaving her dignity in tact…and even a “jerk” can do that….

    Nikita, only someone eternally unhappy is capable of such cruelty. N’s bring these labels on themselves…

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    1. T it sounds to me like you’re trying to suggest a woman should feel honoured that a narc chose them because narcs have such high standards.

      I would say a woman cannot measure her self worth, at all, based on being “the total package” for a narc. Because in the end, no matter how good you look, intelligent you are, etc. the narc takes the total package and decimates it until all that is left is a withered, empty shell of a human being.

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      1. Good morning, b&t!

        A woman shouldn’t measure her worth on anyone’s opinion. However, if you read “Sitting Target” by HG; you’d know that N’s are very choosy when targeting a primary source.

        I’m suggesting a woman shouldn’t forget her worth when ensnared with an N. This happens 100% of the time…..this happens subtly….and by the time the discard comes…..you are an empty shell and you don’t know how it even happened. This happened to me each time.

        A woman should take pride in her best qualities. We empaths influence many people…and when we feel good…others do too!

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  15. Nikita – you cannot be that naïve…..But it seems you are.

    From your responses it`s as if you don`t read half of what he has to say. If you do, it`s all very selective. You take what you want and leave the rest.

    He would hurt you and destroy you (in real life, likely not here because it`s not worth his time – he doesn`t know you or have access to you in real life) because that`s what he does.

    I never once denied his brilliance, intelligence, etc. In fact, if you actually read anything I posted you`d see numerous times where I say how much I admire and respect HG – how I find him and his perspective things so titillating and interesting.

    There is so much more I want to say but I won`t because I`ll probably hurt your feelings and I don`t to deal with the poor me victim-hoopla that will create.

    Maybe, you should spend more time READING what is written here and understanding it, than writing long-winded comments that are contradictory and non-sensical.

    And for argument`s sake, HG – are you interested at all in changing, as Nikita seems to suggest you would be?

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  16. N’s cant change their nature and moreover I said learn many things to improve their behaviour. I think chamge is the wrong word. Its more learn and improve. The praise, devalue, discard cycle, this will never change nor improve. This is like the most hot topic of Ns and of discussion here.
    This is what makes an N an N so no need to discuss that.
    I mean more on the day to day attitude to not break the walls on the smallest discussion, or to communicate without screaming and insulting.
    Learn how to deal with the pain inside is one of the most important learnings for an N i would say
    Also for a codependant by the way….

    If Im not wrong I spoke if learning… Changing behaviours not him!!!! You dont change people!!!

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  17. At a certain age we cant change anymore who we are, we can only change behaviours and attitudes on how we react to events but never us in the core.
    I have seen all my exes change behaviours, on the interest of bringing their lives imto stability and therefor believe that all people with the right motivatiom amd knowledge and awareness can chamge behaviours. Normal or NPDs.

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