Bring Down the Shutters

 

 

Once we commence our devaluation of one of our victims there is a vast array of manipulative techniques that can be used to fulfil our aim of extracting negative fuel from you. Some of these methods are subtle and may not be noticed by the subject, such as triangulation with an object. Others are brutal involving the smashing of property and the flailing fists and stomping boots. It is often the case that you do not realise that devaluation has commenced because you have yet to have any familiarity with this word or even with what it signifies. You will notice however a change in our behaviour. One of those changes is akin to us bringing down the shutters whenever we deal with you.

Once upon a time we exited our car and cantered across to where you stood waiting in the doorway as we wrapped our arms around you and embraced you passionately. Our face had lit up and our delight in seeing you appeared genuine enough. This happened each time we came to see you, as if we had not seen you for months on end, even though it was only the day before when we last held you. Now when we meet you there is no joyful skip towards you, the smile seems forced and there is no light in our eyes anymore. Whereas they once lit up a brilliant blue and sparkled, now they just seem lacklustre and dull, darker than usual. You try to lift our spirits in that indefatigable way of yours. You ask what is wrong and you are always met with an answer of “nothing”.

“Are you sure?” you ask, “you seem unhappy.”

“No there is nothing the matter.”

“You can tell me.”

We realise we must say something but we are pleased by your concern and the fuel that it provides.

“It’s okay. There is nothing wrong.”

“It does not seem like it. Please, tell me what is on your mind.”

Time to step it up a little and extract some further fuel.

“I said there’s nothing wrong,” I snap and pull my hand away from yours. Your face turns from concern to upset and the fuel flows.

This continues as once we used to talk for hours on the ‘phone about all manner of things and laughed and planned, now we still talk for a long time (or rather you seem to do more of the talking this time) as we draw the negative fuel from you. You try to find new topics to keep the conversation going but our responses are limited, our tone flat and then irritable as you try to remain chirpy and upbeat but the sadness and confusion is all too evident in your voice. It needs to be. We need that.

“I just don’t understand, “you protest pleasantly, “you seem so different these days.”

“Really? In what way?”

“It’s like, it is like I am dealing with someone else.”

“Well that’s nonsensical, it is me.”

“Yes I know that but you are not the same.”

“Of course I am the same, you are imagining things.”

“No I am not. You don’t seem to be into me as much as you once were.”

“I am, it is just, you know, I have a lot going on at present.”

“I understand that but it is more than that. It is like I am talking to a different person. You don’t seem to connect with me the way you used to.”

“I don’t understand what you mean.”

“How can I put it? It’s like you have made a conscious decision to distance yourself from me and you do not say the things you used to. You always used to sign off your texts with three kisses and now it is only one.”

“You are concerned about how many kisses I put on my texts?” I ask in disbelief.

“No, well yes, well it is not that. That is just a symptom of something else. It concerns me because I love you so much. It is like you have brought down the shutters and put up barriers when we are together. There is a distance between us that wasn’t once there.”

“I haven’t noticed it.” (Of course I have. I know precisely what you are talking about.)

You then spend many minutes trying to convey this sense of distance and alienation as I listen. I am not hearing the words that you say, nor do I pay attention to the explanation, I am too engaged focussing on the hurt in your voice, the frustration and the exasperation as I suck the fuel from your sentences. This technique is subtle. It is easy to implement and enables us to draw negative fuel from you without you realising what we are doing. It is often the beginning of the devaluation period when the simple cessation of the golden behaviour produces in itself a reaction which provides fuel. We do not need to shock you, we do not need to shout or yell, there is no need to lead you on a confusing and merry dance with our denials and deflections. The simple act of pulling up the drawbridge and no longer allowing you access to the wonderful part of us, illusion that it is, remains highly effective.

“I just feel like you bring the shutters down and I am dealing with somebody different. You are not the HG I know and love. You are someone else.”

Time to throw you a little lifeline to give you hope.

“I’m sorry, I think sometimes when I am under pressure I withdraw into myself. My friends have commented on it previously. It is just something that happens. I think that is what you are referring to. It doesn’t mean that I love you any less. Just last night I was staring at the chair where you usually sit wishing you were there opposite me talking to me.”

That should do it.

“There you see, that is the HG I know, back in an instant. I wish I had been sat in that chair too, I missed you so much last night.”

It really is so easy.

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95 thoughts on “Bring Down the Shutters”

  1. I know with any future relationship, the minute I detect this, before I dare have one of those conversations for the zillionth time, I’m withdrawing into myself and pulling down the shutters. If they’re normal, they can seek me out.

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    1. Good morning, M!

      In dating advice books for women about men (non N’s), they suggest that when a man starts pulling away; we should mirror his behavior.

      When N3 starting to devalue me….I mirrored him at first. I’d just wait for him to get in touch..and he would eventually. He ALWAYS texted “Good morning” first. It then went to “Good afternoon”….then it’d be close to 5pm…and he’d call and invite me to dinner. This wouldn’t be unusual for a non N, however after all of that love bombing…I was feeling neglected. Yes, he was still taking me out to dinner 5-6 nights a week….AND A MOVIE most nights. He NEVER let me pay for anything…he refused to let me cook for him!! He said I deserved to be served and to dine out EVERY NIGHT!……but something was different…My friends thought I was being an ingrate…they wished their man spoiled them so much. Things changed with the morning text messages…

      He then became easily offended and short tempered. He actually thought I was TRYING to hurt his feelings when we disagreed about ANYTHING!!! I can’t tell you how much that hurt my feelings….I KNEW in my heart and in my gut that there was something wrong with him.
      I told him that I loved him so much…I would NEVER hurt his feelings…he meant the world to me. He then apologized and said;
      “T, I love you, too. I feel completely comfortable with you right now…and I don’t have a filter on with you anymore. You are going to see how I really am now… I have a problem expressing my feelings…”

      My heart TANKED. I knew I should have left then. I said goodbye….went shopping alone to gather my thoughts. He texted me several times while I was driving….and told me he wasn’t going to study that night as planned…and he wanted to take me out.

      He wasn’t yet ready to discard me, I guess. However, had I taken that time to “think” by myself….I would have ended things with him the next day. He was my bf, and he should know I’d NEVER intentionally hurt his feelings about anything….and I had a right (just like he did), to express my feelings and needs in our relationship. In his world, if a woman(anybody) doesn’t comply and agree to HIS AGENDA 100%….She is trying to hurt his feelings….in the beginning..,,he always listened to me and talked any differences out. We NEVER had an argument….ever.

      I will never understand why he discarded me….not many couples can talk out an issue once and settle it. He CHOSE to take offense…I just don’t get it….*smh*

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      1. Mine was the same way he took OFFENSE to everything. He would tell me that I hurt him and how could I cause him all this time. I knew way before it ended that he wasn’t right. I started studying all his reactions and odd behavior real closely trying to figure out what was wrong with him.

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      2. I couldn’t believe how he would ever think I’d say or do anything to hurt him….I loved him so much, Angered.

        I know now that there wasn’t anything I could have done differently for a different outcome…..what I need to do for myself now is be sure to be cognizant of the red flags before I get into the next relationship. I can’t emotionally afford another N in my life….

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      3. I told mine off at the end. I said all kinds of mean things to him. I wanted to hurt him. After everthing he had done and said to me, he deserved it. He tried to break me and make me feel worthless, but he didn’t win. He made me come so close to hating him and I don’t hate anybody. I didn’t like the person I was becoming. I started wanting to be a bitch to him because he constantly berated me. The more I was around him the less attractive he became to me. The ugliness of his soul was seeping through his skin.

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      4. Yes…..N3 was absolutely perfect to me in looks. Tall, well built, strong, intelligent, cherub faced, corn fed farmboy….however, the more the “real” him seeped through…he became insane looking. His whole countenanced changed….same with N1 and N2. They looked different after a while…

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      5. I can’t imagine having to have dealt with three of these impossible people. One was enough hell for me. Never again. If I see ANY odd behaviors or something that slightly resembles love bombing…I’m out! Lol…I’m perfectly content just being a mother to my three daughters for now. Oh, and sometimes kids can see things that we don’t. My middle daughter started crying one night asking me why I was going to see him. I said why “you don’t like him? ” She said “Idon’t like him. ..he’s really weird. ..I hate him.” She was 16 then and obviously was smarter than me. .lol

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      6. Angered…I wouldn’t be worried about dating…if it were not for my parents….it bothers my parents (just mom now. My dad and stepmom passed late last year) that we girls are not married…not sure why. We have our careers and our own $…..and we really don’t have the lifestyles that children fit into…but me getting married meant a lot to them…I feel that even though my dad’s gone…it is still what he wants…

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      7. Logically, I know my life belongs to me, HG. I’ve always wanted to please my family, but in the end I always make the best decisions for my own life (in terms of career, large purchases, travel), even if my parents disagreed with them. However, I think it’s all parents desire to see their daughters “taken care of” by a man. But, we have never had trouble taking care of ourselves.

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      8. The young can be wiser beyond there years angered.
        You enjoy life with your girls. My ex narc robbed me of the last few years of any chances of my having a family. Be happy with your girls big hugs xx

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      9. That adds a heavy layer of another form of grief coming to terms with the dream of starting a family but that time is robbed from you and can never be brought back. Besides processing him out as H.G. says, you have that loss you’re coping with as well making it a double whammy. My heart goes out to you on that.

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      10. Thanks MLACLARECE, it makes me cry every time I think of it. He knew how much I wanted a family and was all yes I’d love another child ( he already has a son) but then later in the relationship it was why would I want another child when the one I’ve got disappoints me so much. Lets just have a happy life then he discarded me. I have to accept now that I’ll never be a mother and mine in with my life x

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      11. I don’t want to go into detail but I identify 100% with someone manipulating a baby angle and that that’s what makes you different from other women and “loving” what a great mother you are. It is so sadistic, hence why I’m still raw. I had precious few years post my divorce to start over and still expand in a “family way” to give my daughter a sibling.
        I can still start over at some point but that part will be removed now because of timing. Part of me is like, “why bother now?” Lol

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      12. I used to get, you’re so caring and loving I wish you had been my sons mother things would have been so much better. Wish I’d met you years ago we could have had a wonderful life and family.

        All so cruel so I totally get you to MLACLARECE xx

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      13. Yes my ex narc was everything I’d ever wanted. Tall, dark hair, blue eyes, funny, intelligent and wasn’t a drinker. I know know the only things that where accurate about him was his height, hair colour and eye colour. I’m sure the humour & intelligence belonged to someone else. I still look at pics if us together and think I don’t know you and I think there was a devil lurking there all the time. Hopefully as my rosé tinted glasses fade so will my attraction to him.

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      14. Yes Freedom, you are understanding more now and it is a case of allowing this understanding to dominate your thoughts in order to process out the emotional connection you still have to him. Why though are you still looking at pictures of you both together?

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      15. Hi HG, I’m not sure why I do it. It’s mostly when I’m feeling sad, suppose I’m looking do clues in his facial expressions and comparing them to pics if him and her. Looking for any signs of him being the same with her. In my mind I just need total clarification that it wasn’t me who failed or is incapable of a relationship and that she isn’t any better than me and we end up on the same used up appliance graveyard pile.

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      16. The need for clarification has been caused by the way in which you have been manipulated. This is a further way in which ever presence is created with you and it is working. You will not gain clarification from studying the photographs, it will only prolong the ever presence, prolong your hurt and make you susceptible to hoovers. He will be the same with her in terms of seduction and the devaluation. Take my word for it. You do not need the photographs to tell you that. I can tell you that and who knows better than me eh? You will not find the answer to the failure in the photographs. He is the failure. You are not incapable of a relationship and the answer, once again, is not in studying the photographs. What you are doing is succumbing to the effects of ever presence. It is entirely understandable but it is by design.

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      17. Thank you HG your words have helped me more than you’ll ever know.
        Such a shame you’re a self professed narc as I think I’d probably think you were a potential partner. Ha ha

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      18. Freedom, don’t feel bad about the pictures. I have a habit of keeping my Facebook timeline exactly as my life has unfolded. Bad and good posts and photos stay in place to document my life. It’s only when I get into a new relationship that I limit photos of exes to one or two. It’s all marked to “friends” only….however….I feel that part of my life was fake now. The feelings and experiences I was having with him weren’t real….but they stay there…because that is how my life unfolded…

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      19. We are truly two peas in a pod. I did the exact same thing a month ago. I was like a pressure cooker and wanted to sting my Narc too. I think deep down mine prefers to think he has me in a state of always pining for him and ready to worship him. So I went off on him too with the nasty cranked full throttle. I know H.G. thinks it was one big fuel injection but I’d rather go out like that than begging him to end another silent treatment. I’ve been NC since. But I get that tunnel vision of being so deeply hurt, you want to return the favor to its rightful owner.

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      20. You are correct Clarece that we want you pining and this is what we think you are doing because of how we have made you addicted to us. Begging to end a silent treatment or sending a howitzer of nastiness and blame his way are both fuel injections and if one makes you feel better then obviously that is a matter for you. It does mean however that we will think “Good, I can still get her to react. There’s more of that to extract.” I understand why you want to “give him what for” but it does leave you viable to hoover attempts (although your resolve may be stiffened to reject them of course). It is akin to numerous pleasure; feels great now but you may be made to pay at a later stage.

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      21. He’s not going to Hoover at this point. Hearing others stories and you explaining grand hoovers. I was never an important enough appliance to him. It was always me fighting before to keep a presence with him.

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      22. He manipulated you so you fought to maintain a presence. No, there may not be a grand hoover and no he may not hoover at this point, but he will down the line.

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      23. Well, the last 3 years I’ve always heard from him on Mother’s Day. This Sunday could be very telling…

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      24. Well, we can only take so much. There was so many times I wanted to scream at him, but I bit my tongue and kept my cool. Because I know that’s what he wanted and I wasn’t about to give him that satisfaction. The last time I saw him was kind of comical though. Hahaha…I let him have it right in the middle of sex. Once again he was trying to make me do something that I had just explained to him why I didn’t want to. Of course, he never listened and told me I was selfish. I told him “It’s my body and it’s my right to say no about anything I want! ” He was furious and told me to get out and he never wanted to see me again. I left without saying another word to him and then sent him text after text telling him off. His only reply was GOODBYE.
        On another note though, he was jealous of my kids. Heck, he was even jealous of my phone. I had to give him my full attention always. It was so exhausting. Every time I feel like I might miss him I go back and read some of the old emails and the feeling just disappears. His smile was so fake and he really didn’t know how to joke around or even laugh like a normal person. Humor is a big part of my life and he was so lame…lol

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      25. My ex used to suggest things of a sexual nature that I wouldn’t do. One time on a short break away we were in a hotel small bar with another couple opposite when he said should I ask them if they fancy a foursome. I was furious and embarrassed and left the bar. He came to the room later very angry with me and saying I was over reacting. I ended up sitting in my car in below freezing temps crying whilst he slept like a baby in the room. He also tried to make other demands all of which I deemed not for me each time he was angry with me and would say I’ll make you do them one day and smile. I’m proud to say I never did.

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      26. I was rather thinking how daring….
        Maybe it was just to test you to see what you thought… And make drama and get fuel..
        That could also be a possibility

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      27. Yes, every time I didn’t want to do what he wanted he would get furious. He would always try to make me do what I didn’t want to. He said “some day you’ll do what I want, never oppose me and you’ll love it! ” He was so demanding all the time.

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      28. Angered my used to say that to. Just try it you’ll enjoy it. He even tried suggesting I had sex with another man or a woman while he watched. That disgusted me. I’ve discovered he used to have lots of Sex toys he didn’t use them with me !!

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      29. Ugh, that’s just nasty. Mine never suggested anything like that, but seemed all he wanted was sex especially towards the end of the relationship.

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      30. Mine went the opposite, before he returned home on leave it was talk about what he wanted to do. In realistic term he had kidney stones and although he wanted to he couldn’t. That became my fault why he couldn’t but no surprise there then.

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    2. Or excuse myself and go home! Tired of it.Let them feel empty when I am gone! No more begging, reaching or clawing! So glad to hear this stuff it WAS too easy!!

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  2. Wow !! Exactly that HG !! Mine used his ‘illness’ as the reason – the trump card ! He even commented to me once how much he hated his wife but now she could never leave him as what would people think of her, leaving a sick man! And he was right – poor woman.

    I felt that too. But no way was I gonna put up with that, I never let the D&D go beyond the subtleties. That was enough for me !

    There are some amazingly strong men/ women out there who last months, years with their N. So they must all have it in them to leave and become even stronger.

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  3. Good afternoon HG .

    This all sounds very familiar , it started roughly 18 months possibly two years into my relationship , if so I was being devalued for over 13 years . I wasn’t expecting that , but now you mention it . . wow . I need a medal lol .

    Thank you .

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  4. OHhh HG, The above situation is listed in this Love book I read some months ago as common mistakes people make in relationships .

    Sometime ago I read a book on love which had a chapter on common mistakes people make in relationships, normal love relationships.
    After 2 failed marriages, a codependent man , the author a him, did an extensive investigation on how to preserve love, at the time he finally found a person who made him believe again in love.
    So one of those chapters is about allowing the partner to stay as long as he needs in such states of sadness, distance, non-brilliance etc.
    He related that it is totally normal to fall back in forth in states of distance, sadness, badmood, introspection etc and that the big mistake the partner did was try immediately to take the other out of this state.
    True love is based on loving the other as he is even with his “ bad “ states and also allowing the other to be in this state for as long as he needs. Accompanying the partner in this state without feeling unconfortable or attacked is his recommendation to healthy loving relationships. As difficult as it sounds J. As surprisingly as it sounds he describes situations like you describe above as real love. Real love changes constantly.

    I did this little analysis here, as I am determined to pin out for my own knowledge, where the HMS dance fails compared to normal love relationships. You know kind of the corrective action/preventive action thing.
    From above article I think I can conclude the gap is . A codependant is feeling for the partner and as soon as she identifies this “shutter” is trying to make everything good, and finding out and trying trying trying to take the partner out the that state, while the narcissist is lying about the real status of his feelings L .

    I have my corrective/ preventive action.
    😘😘😘💋💓💓😍😍😘⛽️😘😃

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      1. Hi T

        Its called ” what is love ” by Thomas G Pfiffer.
        He was in a marriage with an N and a BPD and out of that experience created the book which also talks about self love.
        its gives very good insights of how he defines love. One type of love. 😃

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      2. ❤️ That song…
        Love is not hurting and becoming one.
        Can also be a definition…i think its more aboutfinding which of all the defimitions suits you and your other.

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  5. With all of these partners, do you not worry about diseases? The victim profiles of many Ns seem to require that they be lonely, needy, and have low enough self-esteem to think they have to stay because they can’t do any better. The victim might be overweight or homely, thinks that nobody “sees” her (perfect prey for an N, think of the effect of over-the-top flattery on her). If an N fills his “secondary appliance cache” with these women, calling on them once or twice a month, they are probably out trolling for one-night-stands in-between to fill the gap. If a plethora of secondaries each has a plethora of strangers, the odds are stacked against the whole pyramid: somebody will get an STD or two or three and it will go viral (pun i tended).

    These are the things that freak me out more than the heartstrings: if you think it’s hard finding a “soulmate” now, wait till you have contracted something incurable and see how alluring THAT is. Ugh! Such risks! Why why why why why?

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    1. No I do not worry about diseases. I get checked out, regularly. Although I accept that there are those of our kind who do not give a fig about it because they do not think it will happens and of course if it does, it is someone else’s fault isn’t it?

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  6. HG, you surely have heard of The Rules? I have a friend (now married) who swears by them and said if I had used them with G I would have never gotten hurt. But I can’t imagine waiting for a guy to text/call me first or say the L word first. I truly believe that when you love someone you should let them no and never play games. Then again, my friend is married, and I’m well into old maid territory…

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    1. Cody,

      I use a few tips from “The Rules” with ALL men. I like to be pursued…so this works for me. There is no question about their feelings if they have to do all of the work.

      HOWEVER, an N is playing a game anyway. They plan on love bombing, idealizing, devaluing, and discarding EVERYONE…anyway..

      But those rules do help a normal male/female relationship. So, your friend is right!

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      1. The part where empaths get tripped up (and that would be intolerable to a Narc) is not immediately calling/texting back, even if Narc is doing the pursuing in the love bombing phase. And then, of course, most of us probably initiate a lot if not most of the calling/texting as soon as we’re hooked! Major violation of The Rules… (And major fuel for HG.)

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      2. Indeed Cody. I do think that we elites would readily overcome somebody’s attempt to adhere to these Rules. The potential prize we present as would be such that the victim would throw the Rules out of the window and embrace us wholeheartedly. Some work in our favour. Isn’t one of the stances in these Rules “if he doesn’t call he isn’t interested”? Well we always call. And text. And turn up.

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      3. During idealization…..ignoring some texts w N’s is ok….but once we are hooked. Hell hath NO fury as an N IGNORED! lol!

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  7. No matter how good your research, I imagine if you ever encountered an empath who tried to play The Rules on you, you would drop her pretty quickly as soon as you found better fuel.

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      1. I just read the home page but I can imagine you dont like the rules, having to do all the work and its really the comtrary of adulation and adoratiom.😂😂😂.

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      1. Hi Nikita.

        Can’t believe this is the first time you’re hearing about The Rules! I heard about them at least 10 years ago but always dismissed them as being for witchy, high-maintenance gold-digger types. The Rules require a lot of discipline and self-control – basically acting against every expressive, generous instinct an empath would have.

        My view of love is more like Cameron Diaz in My Best Friend’s Wedding. (Haven’t seen it in a while but I think she says it first to the guy by yelling it as the train is pulling out of the station.)

        Unsurprisingly, this is one of G’s favorite movies (lie, no doubt), along with just about every other rom com chick flick you can think of. You know, the ones with happily ever after/woman gets her man…

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      2. Hi Cody.
        I had never in my entire life heard or read about that but when I took abrief look I recognized that is how girls are brought up in latin america,maybe not now anymore because with the liberalization of the woman, chamged also the expectations of the men.
        I thought it was big crap. I think just be yourself and if the other person stops calling then it was just not mean to be.
        Cameron Diaz movies are good for laughing on a Friday night after a hard working week.
        I like something about mary and the hair gel. I could have not laughed more.

        https://youtu.be/9NesjZbF1Ls

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  8. I think you may be getting into “He’s Just Not That Into You” territory, HG!

    But The Rules do tell women not to waste time with those who don’t call first or do the pursuing…

    G definitely did the pursuing early on, and always paid for dates. Until one day he blew up at me at a restaurant for not offering to pay. But I thought this was just a reasonable request to make (even if not done in the most reasonable of ways) on his part, not a sign of devaluation…

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    1. Cody

      No man nowadays likes to be the only one to pay!!! Not even the rich ones. I have a friend from here married to a very rich guy and she when dating had to pay !! Now that thet are married she profits of this.

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      1. I hear you, Nikita. However, in the beginning of a relationship, I think it’s okay for the guy to step up. Maybe around date 4 or 5 is the time I’d offer. My N kept refusing, so I stopped offering, and only after I stopped did he yell at me that one time. That fixed me pretty good: I never didn’t offer again. Thing is, I was working as a temp (not the computer programmer kind who rakes in the dough) when we met and then was laidoff, whereas he has been in a very secure, mid-6-figure job since well before we met. And it’s not like I was demanding fancy meals at expensive restaurants. I ALWAYS offered to cook, and when he wanted to go out I would suggest inexpensive places. Even though (being a good empath!) I can see it from the man’s point of view, I was a little confused and hurt when he blew up at me for “never” offering to pay right after I lost my low-paying job.

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      2. Yes sure the first 2 or 3 (max) they pay and then its shared. Ive always seen it like this in europe ( this country ) and in latin america.
        Well if you had lost your job then you should not be paying 😰… I think… And even less if your partner is earning alot..😰 That is different but anyway I think it has to be something to talk about and agree.
        Always make this things clear, like ” listen I have no job, we go out if you invite me or else lets cook rissotto together 😃… Something like that.
        I think those money problems are lack of communication….. My opinion.
        I never had those problems as I always offered to share. I had one ex that liked alot of luxus and I told him.. But you have to invite me, i cant pay that.. Or lets go to something cheaper 😂😂…. Its good to talk.

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  9. Boy is this fimiliar, he did this often my ex narc but would then Hoover me back in. He would blame pressures, work, his family, illness always an excuse. He even said he got like that because he hated his birthday and said straight from the beginning when his birthday came around he would shut himself away for a couple of weeks. He would then say I love you so please don’t ever think I’m doing it to hurt you, you’re the best thing that’s ever happened to me

    Yeah right !!

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  10. That’s probably one of many reasons. Possible also so he could see others ( friends and new supplies). It may also be so he could go and get drunk, as he’d told me he didn’t drink, ( my ex husband was an alcoholic therefore I’d made it clear in the beginning I wasn’t keen on excessive drinkers ).
    Who knows what warped world he was in that particular day.

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    1. Freedom, how many years were you with your narc? You mentioned elsewhere that he robbed you of your chance to have children, but do you know for sure that is the case? Fertility doesn’t magically disappear at 35… But you would definitely have to be in the right mental space to get out there and start dating again, and believe me, I know this is easier said than done. (Don’t ask me if I practice what I preach. I’m ashamed of the answer…)

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      1. I think 42 is the top max to have a kid … because else its egoistic with the kid, he is a teenager and the parents are 60… I think this is no fun for the teenager…
        Nevertheless the oldest I have seen at my workplace is 44. 😞

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  11. Nikita, we would be wise to avoid drawing an arbitrary cutoff as to when a woman should no longer have a child. Her fertility is obviously the primary factor, but additional factors include her health and ability to care for the child. Some women are not emotionally, mentally, or even financially prepared to have a child until they are in their early 40s, and if they are still fertile then I say go for it.

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    1. Well its funny we were just discussing this pregnancy issue with my mom and 2 brothers on wasap today. My brothers insisted over 42 is too much and my mother more conservative as she had me with 20 insisted that 36 is the limit. The discussion came because our cousin with 43 is now pregnant of her third child and had posted pictrues of her belly on facebook. Also one of my best friends who visited me in December, gave up now the idea of giving a child to her second husband because the doctor told her 43|44 was the safe limit….,
      Its a very debated discussion with different opinion and I was just giving mine accordint to my experience.
      But its true if its the dream of a woman to have a kid then she should go for it as long as fertility allows it.

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    2. I want to apologize if I touched someones susceptibility on setting an max age for a woman to have kids. Half an hour before we had been discussing it witj my family members and we all giving our opinions on the maximum age ( family gossip) and I took the conversation from one place to the other.
      My sincere apologies. Thanks cody for bringing it up.

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  12. You are very thoughtful and kind, Nikita. Best wishes to your cousin, by the way.
    For those of us on the “wrong” side of 40 and single, most men who want children won’t even give us the time of day. EXCEPT for the you-know-whats… (Starts with n.)
    I am sure it is not coincidental that G’s targets (the ones I know about, at least) are all childless women just over 40 who would make wonderful mothers if only they could find the right man before it’s too late…
    Am I right, HG?

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    1. Hi cody

      Thanks. Seems she is super happy and her boyfriend also. Actually she has two other kids. 18 and 14 but her new boyfriend doesnr have any. She is 44 i learned in the meantime.
      I agree with you men usually look for younger women to have family but my cousin got lucky I suposse.
      Good luck to you!!

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  13. HG I know I am late to read this post, as I had not been fully aware of my situation at this time. However, reading the second last paragraph from you about withdrawing and pressure was the response I received on the nights my N spent with his back towards me and withheld any intimacy from me. I also thought those may have just been the nights he had already enjoyed someone else earlier in the evening:(

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