In Love With a Married Man

Image result for picture of a married man affair



You think about me every day. You wait for those teasing and tempting text messages which come through repeatedly during the day and then dry up around 6pm when you know that I am home with her. Once in a while there might be a sudden text at 9pm telling you that she has popped in the bath and that I love you, I miss you and I hate being apart from you. The text also warns you against replying and therefore all you are able to do is touch the glowing screen and try to feel the sentiment behind these electronic messages of desire.

How you cherish that period around 5-30 pm when every day we speak on the ‘phone, just you and I. I am driving home from the office and I use the half an hour or so to regale you with my compliments and to issue those promises that perhaps one day I will be driving home to you. Whatever you are doing you always ensure that you are available and your ‘phone line is free in order to engage in this call. You now arrange social engagements to take place later or you remain at your workplace, ensconced in the office, appearing to be engaged in a business call, save that you smile far too much for something that is work-related. That half an hour of heaven when we talk as if we were properly together, making plans, discussing the things we like and dislike, planning the next time we can snatch some time to make love without being detected or laughing about what was discussed when we met for lunch.

You manage to arrange to have lunch with me at least once a week. We deliberately choose a place that neither is likely to be recognised in and we place ourselves around the corner and out of sight. Hands held beneath the table and then removed when the waiter nears us, just in case. Stolen kisses, lingering looks and promises, oh so many promises of the wonderful world that awaits us once I manage to free myself of the chains of my marriage.

You listen carefully and attentively, showing the empathy for which you were chosen as I make oblique references to my miserable home life. Each time you gently press for more information to enable you to understand what it is that I have to ensure. What it is that I have to put up with and what it is that has driven me into your arms. I try not to say too much at first. I do not want our oh too brief times together to be spoiled by my tale of woe, but your sympathetic ear proves irresistible and I allow you to learn of the injustices that I suffer on a daily basis.

“We just do not get on any longer.”

“She lost interest in me sexually three years ago. I am amazed I have lasted this long.”

“Nothing I seem to do is good enough. No matter how hard I try, she always finds something to criticise.”

You listen and nod. I know you are desperate to weigh in and slide a knife between me and her and cut our bonds, but the decency that you are imbued with prevents you from doing so. You even suggest reasons why this state of affairs is as it is. You are kind, generous and understanding.

You thrill to my sudden calls out of the blue. You always answer after one ring, sometimes even less, thus denoting that your ‘phone is kept next to you at all times. Your voice always tells me how delighted you are to hear from me. When we meet your eyes, your kiss, your hugs and your spoken enthusiasm cause me to soar as I witness your devotion and desire.

You experience a surge of excitement when you are disturbed by a chime in the middle of the night and see that I have managed to issue another text to you.

I cannot get you out of my head and had to let you know. Don’t reply, I am in bed with her.

The delight that you experience at hearing from me when you expected not to is tempered by the knowledge that I am with her and not you.

The weekends are hardest as you often tell me. I can tell you want to say more but I know you are fearful of pushing me away by being too demanding. I text you when I can and even managed to call you, speaking in hushed tones from a toilet cubicle or a changing room in a department store, stifling my laugh that I have pretended to try on some clothes just so I can call you.

I keep you hooked though. I know how much you want me. I know you love me and I know you want me to be loved, to take me away from the misery of my marriage. I promise you that one day we will be together. Now is not the time, it isn’t quite right at the moment, there’s a family event coming up and it wouldn’t be sensible to drop such a bombshell with that on the horizon, there is a family holiday she booked it and I didn’t know until now but what can I do? I will have to go. I keep the promises coming and the excuses flowing and still you hang on.


I know you wonder why I keep my ‘phone close to me. You haven’t said anything yet but I am not stupid. I can see the suspicion in your eyes when I wake and immediately check my mobile.

“I am waiting for an important e-mail that may have come in from the States overnight,” I explain and issue a disarming smile. You nod. You seem to accept the explanation.

You have complained how you are unable to ever get me on my ‘phone when you ring when I am on my way home. How many times have you left messages asking me to pick up some milk or to collect one of our children from swimming or football only for me to pick the message up too late?

“I need to be available for my clients. They don’t know I am driving home nor do they care; they need to speak to me. After all, if it wasn’t for them we wouldn’t have this would we?” I explain pleasantly sweeping an expansive arm at the large house and expensive furnishings all around us. You nod in acceptance. You understand my work is important. I tell you often enough that it is.

“I wish you would meet me for lunch when I come into town,” you say every week or so. I kiss your forehead and tell you that I wish that I had the time to enjoy lunch the woman I love but it is a sandwich and a bottle of fizzy water at my desk for me. There are targets to hit. You nod in understanding and tell me that I work too hard. I thank you and my mind drifts to what I will eat in that Thai restaurant I will be having lunch in tomorrow.

“I wish they would leave you alone,” you sigh when I turn away from you in bed after having made love to you. Your hand lingers on my back, wanting to maintain the closeness and the connection as I attend to my ‘phone on the night stand and issue a late night text before placing it face down.

“I know but it saves waking up to a problem,” I say before turning back to you and kissing you as we nestle in our marital bed.

I know you cherish our weekends together when the demands of the working week intrude less on our domestic life. I can sense you looking at me as I sit, phone in hand, a smile of contentment playing across those lips but nowhere near as wide as the smile inside of me as I fire off a tempting and teasing message.

“Just seeing if Dan is available for squash next week. Tuesday night, so I will be back late,” I say across the room by way of explanation, opening up a gap in the week for someone other than you. You smile and nod and return to your book.

“I love you,” I say suddenly and you look up, the devotion and desire burning in your eyes and it seems so familiar almost making me say something, but the thought passes and I wallow in the admiration and love that you send towards me. You have never ceased to do that.



You do not know about her.

She thinks she knows all about you.

Neither of you really know what I am.

99 thoughts on “In Love With a Married Man

  1. Asp Emp says:

    This article posting has some interesting (and amusing) comments where HG responds queries about narcissists ‘ensnaring’ other narcissists in intimate relationships.

    Then I thought how Boris Johnson would be ‘revelling’ in his position as Prime Minister and the fact he can ‘toy’ with lower echelons within the arena of politics, him knowing what they are and they do not know it themselves, they do not know what he is. They may ‘sense’ it but would never “cotton on”.

  2. Carma J. Skelton says:

    I am in love with a married man. “We” have been together longer than hes been married to her. He is the most narcissistic bastard l know. This is a challenge that I have found most interesting. Although he thinks he is in charge I have found a way to get around his thinking. I’m starting to wonder whose a bigger narcissus – him or me? Time will tell but I get bored easily.

  3. C.J. says:

    I moved in with at the time was my fiancé. I decided not to marry him and moved out 7/7/2015. He married on 8/4/2015 to my friend. On 9/10/2015 he was in my bed and we’ve never stopped. Don’t want him back but love his company.

  4. superxena says:

    Hello findinglife11!
    Interesting comment about the dynamics of this blog. A reflection that came up in my mind when I read your comment and that I would like to share with you: If you had a talent,knowledge or know-how that was unique, wouldn’t you exploit it in some way?

  5. Gabrielle says:

    Wow. This entire article was pretty much my life for the last year. Minus the last few paragraphs about the example showing a business/work situation, that of which he was not in since he does not really have much of a career. I am pretty certain he stays with his wife because he is financially dependent on her job/income.

  6. shootingstar says:

    Hello Mr. Tudor. Not sure if you will see this as it is an old thread. Could you please address the seduction and targeting of married women by single persons of your sort? Or direct me to a post where this has been addressed already? I have not yet seen it. Thank you. I enjoy your style of communication.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      This is mentioned in Sitting Target but a specific article on this targeting will be forthcoming.

      1. shootingstar says:

        Thank you for your response. I have read the book. I have 6 of your books. I must tell you that your works help calm my addiction to the N. Yet sometimes I don’t know if I just find it to be a fix. I look forward to the specific article. I have not missed it, have I?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          You are welcome and thank you for reading. No you have not missed the article.

    2. MB says:

      Check this out shootingstar:

  7. Wedded bliss says:

    Mine loves unhappily married women and i can see why hes never been married and never wants to commit so what better arrangement than a married woman who is lonely and looking for love in all the wrong places. Its also easier to abuse as she deserves it for being unfaithful. She also cant confide in her friends and is even more isolated than a typical victim. Future faking but theres no future to be had despite 5 years of something but really nothing. Something to escape to but in the end worse

  8. Jenny says:

    Have been dating a married man for over three years,he keeps promising me that he will soon divorce his wife that i’m the one he loves. Have waited for so long that i became stagnant i couldn’t leave him because i love him dearly and i think he feels the same way about me but he couldn’t divorce his wife and i know for a fact that he wasn’t happy with her.
    A friend of mine introduced me to a spell caster, she told me he can help me, i contacted him, he assured me that he will help me that my lover will divorce his wife within weeks. To my greatest surprise he finally did it, he divorced his wife and now we are married with a baby girl.
    many might not approve my method but i don’t care i have the right to be happy too.

    1. Kit says:

      Can you send me the name of this spell caster? I don’t want to marry my narc, but I want his wife to find out what an awful person he is.

  9. The last three lines just about did me in because of their ultimate perfection and succinct way of summing up the entire piece.

    Simply. Stunning.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I am obliged B&T.

  10. Jessica says:

    Ahh this is all too familiar. Especially the calls at 6 in the morning when he went to work. I love the part of how nothing was ever good enough for her.Actually that part is true… Princess type. The lies and manipulations. I am waiting for him to cheat on her again. Its a comin

    1. 1jaded1 says:

      Run after telling him to sit and spin on something sharp…you deserve better.

  11. Alex Zangriles says:

    Thank you nikita! I am trying my best to stay away. Unfortunately I am in the process of selling “our” MY house so there has been minimal business contact via text. Now that I know what he is and how his game is played I feel so much stronger…almost like I have the rules and cheat codes now so I finally have a shot at winning😃

    1. nikitalondon says:

      Good luck with that… It was painful to read your story and its now nice to hear you are back on track 😃

  12. 1jaded1 says:

    Don’t reply, I am in bed with her? Wow, that would totally make me reply if I decided to have an affair…which I wouldn’t bc the marriage vows he took and all that! All of my male friendishes are happily married. I want it that way. Even better if I can be friendish(ly) with the wife, too. Safe…aah.

  13. Alex Zangriles says:

    That is a great question. I WAS his wife for 15 years! Never knowing what he was just always knowing something was not right. I am not 100% sure if he ever cheated on me the first 13 years. He definitely played A LOT of mind F**king games (the wife in this blog was me…always wondering) but since his biggest scar is from his mothers affair he always prided himself on never “crossing the line.”

    Instead, I crossed the line or at least was the one that got caught. After 13 years you grow a little exhausted by the games and some of us start to seek validation (not an excuse but definitely a reason). I was bad at being sneaky and deceptive, although the Dark Narc would say otherwise. I think he was more upset that I pulled the wool over his eyes for a hot minute because he still brings that up more than anything else. Either way, this fueled a FIRE!

    How did I then become the other woman, you ask? Well, he went seeking other sources of fuel.

    6 months later he found a new source of fuel and when he knew that he had her secure, he asked me for a Divorce (he thought he kept her hidden from me but I knew about her). I gave him the Divorce and for the first time I felt FREE! I thought he was gone forever but that is not how a narc works. He stalked me, stalked any guy I was dating, made up stories about me and guys I was dating. Came back to me every few months telling me how unhappy he was with her how he wanted us wall was up pretty high at this time. Got engaged to her after I rejected him for the 3rd time (literally a week later).

    Two months before his wedding, he GOT me! Admiration phased me to death and I fell, my wall fell, my defenses fell, my heart was his open target once again. My shame, my guilt, my love for him, my ignorance of the Narc society, blinded me to him and I wanted to believe that our “love” could conquer all. This lasted a month and then without any explanation at the time, he want cold (discarded) and I was crushed.

    He got married, I picked up the pieces of my heart but them back together the best I could and moved on. In January of this year, I become the other woman when he came to me once again (yes, I know I am STUPID but I thought I broke this man and I was the only one that could fix him at this time…didn’t know about narcs yet). So pretty much the blog above was me and my exes relationship from January to June (he actually left her in May…for a bit). I had another affair with the man that left me bc I had an affair (only in narc world). But I am here now, so we already know how this story ends and believe me this is my final chapter with the Dark Narc…it is over!

    So, yes Cody…I am a unicorn!

    1. Sophia says:

      Thank you for sharing. I was the other woman for nearly 5 years and was discarded (welcomed) 5 months ago. It’s so helpful to me knowing, from your perspective, what I was entangled with. I have learned so much since he left (by the Grace of God, has not returned) and had I known more about Narcissism, I could have avoided, and not participated in, the Pain Game!

    2. nikitalondon says:

      Wow.. What a story….
      Thamks for sharing.. Hope you feel okay..

      1. Alex Zangriles says:

        If you are talking to me I appreciate your concern. Not trying or wanting to play the victim card at all. It is funny though how niave you can be before you know the truth. Just trying to recover and understand…honestly fascinated by everything and the roles in this game…even the one I played without realizing. Can’t play the “what ifs” though. Wish everyone well…even the empty soul narcs. You will never stop my loving…just make me wiser on who I give it to in the future!

        1. nikitalondon says:

          All the best. Just stay strong to keep away. ⭐️⭐️⭐️. Wishing that for you.
          I remember now guy I dated ( few times) who also called me one day before his wedding … OMG I had totally forgotten about him and that call.. as this was many many many years ago.. Only to confirm my belief what he is..
          All the best. Your story touched me. 🌅🌅🌈

    3. Cody says:

      Hi Alex. Thank you for sharing. It didn’t even occur to me that the mistress-to-wife order could be the other way around. But of course it can! This is a narc we’re talking about! I’m pretty sure my narc continued (continues?) to fool around with his ex-wife even after the divorce proceedings were under way.
      I applaud your courage and your strength. You are indeed a unicorn in the best possible way. 🙂

      1. Alex Zangriles says:

        Thanks Cody, that means a lot bc some days I really beat myself up for ever going back to him…I was doing so well! But again, I didn’t know what he was and since all 10 empath characteristics fit me (esp 9) I hoped one day I would be able to save us. You better bet your butt if your narcs ex wife is even giving him a hint of a chance he is using it to suck her dry…again. Please tell me you are not still with him!

    4. Narc society… 🙂

  14. Alex Zangriles says:

    I’ve been both of those women…with the same man…my DARK NARC💔💔💔

    1. Cody says:

      Were you one of the rare mistresses that the man actually leaves his wife for? Isn’t that like a unicorn? (I am not trying to be sarcastic but actually am curious because any relationship advice columnist would tell you “he’s NEVER going to leave his wife!”)

  15. mlaclarece says:

    I think this is the double life many cheating spouses are leading. It’s an extremely selfish, hurtful move. Does it really mean full blown Narcissist? I’m not sure? Uncomfortable to read most definitely. I have known of some people who cheated due to whatever circumstances existed (typically married very young and grew apart from first spouse) and then remarried and life was good. Perplexed by this one.

    1. nikitalondon says:

      Sounds VERY much like a relationahip with Narcissist like ifs written all over.. And yes I agree with Clarence… Heartbreaking to read 💔💔💔💔. The poor wife.. OMG
      I got married with 26 but think this was not the case… I hope…
      Excellent story HG.. You are magical!!

  16. Ciao Baby says:

    OMG this was my life! I was so naive. {sigh}

  17. Poetic_Me says:

    The image, with the removal of the wedding band….interesting. Did you ever forget to put it back on?

  18. Poetic_Me says:

    Curious. While carrying On your extra martial affairs and those women obviously know about your wife. Why is it they can’t respond to your messages? Would you not have kept your phone turned off or on silent, when with her or In bed with your wife , et cetera….so they can reply….you just exert power over them again telling them not to, to see if they obey. It is all about deception. Control and power. To make you the victim. I would reply, if it was me. But, then it would never me. Because I have been cheated on and know what that pain feels like. No s.o.b. story would ever convince or justify doing so for me. No man or affair is worth destroying someone else over. But, I do understand these men, such as yourself can spin quite tale of deception to seduce and beguile and feign that you are victim of a loveless marriage. You just neglect to say it is loveless because of YOU.

    So many lies, both women believing them and trusting you. Only eventually for a third party to replace them both. At some point.
    It is difficult loving someone and have them tell you everyday they love you and they do not. I suppose with a Narcissist , the bright side is, they don’t love them either. Love, just a Four letter word.

    Btw, the You, was a generalized you, not a specific one. Do you enjoy family holidays HG? Or do you find them a tedious, but necessary chore?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      They are told not to reply as a test to ensure obedience which paves the way for further manipulation. Yes one might turn the ‘phone off but there may be other reasons not to do that (fuel, the need to be contactable by work, the event of an emergency for instance).
      If you did reply and disobey there would be consequences. Moreover nearly all in that situation would comply because they do not want to lose me by doing anything wrong.

      I don’t go on family holidays.

      1. Poetic_Me says:

        I would reply, as I would assume she would also been advised to nevr touch your phone, under any circumstance. And her obedience would be drilled into her through years of conditioning. Mind you. Sensibly, one shouldn’t call or text at anything past the witching hour. Yes, compliance, obedience and fear…..a winning combination for a Narcissist.

      2. I like how you interact more In the early days….
        Some may say the “golden days” of the blog….

        1. MLA - Clarece says:

          How so?

          1. More interaction by oz i feel earlier on as i look at the blog dates…. it was newer…. He was trying to get established….and hook people…. understandably… He is bigger now…. more spread thin… pushing the money making aspect more… and why not….? I just think it’s interesting the parallels between the blog relationship dynamics and a typical narc dynamic relationship….
            Though… i don’t see any discard any time soon…. as the “fuel” is too g$$$$$$$d. 😉

          2. HG Tudor says:

            The level of interaction is probably similar but spread across more people, FL11. I direct people to the consultations because

            1. The blog is not for detailed personal stories – it clutters it
            2. If someone wants me to comment re their personal situation, I usually need more information, have questions etc and firing this back and forth through the blog is unwieldy and fractured;
            3. I want to ensure a full and proper response is given whereby the reader gains the full benefit of my knowledge – this lends itself to a personal consultation
            4. Some people do not want their information aired in a public place
            5. If someone needs answers quickly, that is the best way to do it
            I of course continue to answer questions on the blog (and elsewhere) within my time constraints.
            Oh and as you ought to know by now, no such thing as a discard!!

          3. makes perfect sense and is a natural progression. I’m very happy for you. I’m very glad you are here. And your personal touch is amazing! 🙂
            Idk how u do it.

          4. HG Tudor says:

            Thank you FL11.

          5. MLA - Clarece says:

            I see where you both are coming from. There is a more “efficiency” to the blog and early on it was more relaxed and more conversational experiences could be shared. But I also like much more getting to address him as HG rather than “MN” or “Malignant Narcissist”. That was just plain intimidating to me. lol

          6. Indeed mla… HG… much preferred to MN. Certainly more approachable…. and seemingly loving and caring…. though we know what lies underneath. But it’s just cognitively… so it works on here…. we hear his words… but there is a certain denial on here…. that makes u just want to chum right up to him and cuddle on his lap. And nuzzle his neck. 😉

          7. MLA - Clarece says:

            I’d probably just start off with a fist bump and go from there.

      3. Carrie Arends says:

        I was Able To Nab The SIM card Get a Reader and Have a Log of Both Sides of the messages plus the pictures and the contacts and his passwords via jailbreak I kept the cell phone watched him go berserk laughed and Eventually Have some Very Narcnailing Plans For These I am keeping the suspense for a torturous long time while he said you stole my cellphone you stole my cellphone I said No You can Have the I _phone Its the SIM card I wanted he reported it and then tried to sell it and the guy thought it was stolen making him look like a jerk threatening to have him busted just teeth gnashing bested he would like to kill me Let him Try He’ll Hurt Himself .even if he could he would be jailed by a time capsule of evidence safely reserved to feed his fuel eating face every single piece in proper place and time

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Check out Jane Bond there!

  19. Jewels says:

    Yip this story is me. Except i was the married one. He had a girlfriend but he said there was no chemistry. She felt like a sister to him. Gave me the glorious morning text messages right through to the late nights except of course when his girlfriend was visiting. Funny how i was the married one yet was always making a plan to take his calls. He convinced me we were soul mates and belong together and we played the future game. So while i was asking for a divorce so we could run off into the wild blue yonder together he got married behind my back. He still tried to deny he got married mind you. Wtf!! He tried to pick up where he left off with me day after his honeymoon. He got it right and we continued for many many more yrs. hes now getting divorced and i was supporting him thru the whole saga to find out recently theres another women hes got on the go besides me. I exposed him for what he is and now iv been given the final discard. Thank f..k for that. I will never again fall for this crock of shit

  20. My forever Narc is married, blamed his terrible relationship with her on me. If I wouldn’t have left him 28 years ago he’d be happy, but I left so him not having sex now is my fault. As he then tells me about how his wife isn’t like me, doesn’t like the things I like….ya right. Lies on lies on lies. Oh then he says hang on she’s calling me. He’s like what, I’m busy. They start in about money. He hangs up on her. I said what did she say? He says she seen charges on the credit card and wanted to know who I’m cheating with. I told her she’s crazy and she said God sees all and he will reveal it to her so I hung up on her. Nice guy right? One more proof that they will always hoover. You belong to them. *sigh* And they cheat and cheat and cheat.

  21. Sophia says:

    I didn’t realize it at the time, but I was with a high functioning Narcissistic MM for nearly 5 years. I finally gave him a final deadline of when things would end. He discarded me, without warning, three days before. He always said his wife slept in another room, she was cold, aloof, never affectionate, etc. I know his wife, and I (as well as many others) could see that everything he said had to be true. She’s cold, distant and avoidant of most everyone, especially women. Now, that I have learned what a Narcissist is (especially through your blog), I can see the truth of what has more than likely been happening to her for the last 18 years. My question is,; now that I have been out of his life for the last 5 months, what could she be experiencing from him? I know he blames me (who cares) for why our relationship failed, but it makes me wonder how it effects his relationship with her, if at all? Also, he works from home now and doesn’t have all the attention he once had surrounding him. I heard from a friend, through his wife, and through a friend, from him that he’s traveling a lot more for his job. I believe he may have found another supply, but can’t say for sure. Again, I’m just curious how all of these aspects could possibly be effecting his wife. I looked at her the other day and noticed, for the first time, she has the saddest resting face frown I have ever seen on anyone. I realized she’s probably not cold and aloof; she’s in a fog and it’s as if she’s a zombie. This woman is known to most as being strong, secure and confident. I see the total opposite. I see someone who’s soul has been taken from her and it breaks my heart to think I participated in helping him to destroy her.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Hello Sophia, I assume that he and his wife remain together yes? He has discarded you. Unless he has identified a new primary source outside of his marriage (entirely possible) he has returned to her and no doubt will be giving her the golden period once more. It is highly likely that she is dependent on him and rather than get rid of him (for many different reasons) she remain is situ, unable to understand his behaviours but clinging to the occasional respite golden periods which he hands out from time to time. You have at least seen through and understood what is really happening to her rather than what people think is the case, that she is cold and aloof. How many other people who are victims of our kind are regarded in such incorrect terms by those who do not understand what we are? Many indeed I will wager. Your reaction of it breaking your heart is entirely empathic in nature but you are not to blame. You did not know what you were becoming entangled with. The blame is all his, not that he will ever accept that of course.

      1. How long would the renewed golden period remain do you suspect, H.G.? Mine also went back to his wife. Do you feel happiness in that golden period, or is it just to keep her from leaving?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Do you mean a golden period which is a respite or if the Formal Relationship has begun again following a successful hoover? If the former, respite periods (which are during the overall devaluation) may be a few weeks to a few months. If the latter, it will be a number of months, say 4-6. No I do not experience happiness.

      2. Yes… HG how people get it wrong when they really don’t know. That’s why its best not to judge. We are not cspable of being good at it entirely.

    2. Sharon says:

      Hi HG. First off, I need to tell you that my first posts were used under my alias, Sophia. I was a little nervous to use my real name, but then I realized I have nothing to be ashamed of or fearful of, so I began using my real name, Sharon.

      Yes, he and his wife are still together. I’m not real sure what she might be dependent on him for, because financially, they both make awesome livings. My thought is maybe she stays with him because she doesn’t want to appear as a failure in societies eyes, not to mention, she’s probably too broken to even act. She’s a tough one to figure out because I don’t really know her, I just know who she is. I know how easy it is to judge someone through other’s opinions and I’m just glad I’ve been able to “see the light”. Funny thing … towards the end, he always said to me, “I know I don’t have the right to ask you to be anymore patient than you’ve already been, BUT, please just be patient a little longer because there is a light at the end of the tunnel”. He didn’t realize how right he was.

      I have a few questions?

      1) What are two Narcissistic people like as a couple (married or otherwise)?
      2) What is the difference (in your mind) between a Narcissist and a Sociopath?

      1. HG Tudor says:

        Hello Sharon, thank you for the explanation and your reticence is understandable.

        1. You may have a greater ensnare a lesser narcissist and the two form a relationship. The greater will control the relationship and there would be a lot of triangulation in order to give the lesser fuel so the greater could then recoup it from the reactions of the lesser. The lesser would not know that he or she has been ensnared. I do not bother ensnaring my kind as the fuel provision is not good enough. I would rather be entertained by weaponising an empath against one of my kind and watching the fireworks.
        2. We are on the same spectrum. I regard Lessers as narcissists and Greaters as narcissistics sociopaths. Have a read of my article Narcissist or Sociopath which is on the blog.

        1. Asp Emp says:

          HG, can I ask (if you don’t mind), do you still have the same view with regard to “Greaters as narcissistics sociopaths”(as you suggest in point 2 of your comment)?

      2. Alex Zangriles says:

        Super weird Sharon! I was just thinking in my mind about two narcs together and how often it happens!!! Cant wait to here what HG has to say.

      3. Leilani says:

        Are you sure about that HG? What if they are both Greater? Or Somatic and Cerebral?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Two Greaters would recognise one another and know that there would such limited fuel available and therefore not entangle or if they did it would be a locking of horns just to see who was superior and then they would both withdraw as neither would get the level of fuel required that they need.

          1. Leilani says:

            Thank you HG. I like the description. Have you ever been with one? If so, do you find the potency of the fuel taste different in its breed than an emphat and/or a codependent during, in between and after the golden period? No worries, I’m listening.

          2. HG Tudor says:

            Been with what Leilani?

          3. Leilani says:

            What HG?

          4. HG Tudor says:

            You’ve lost me.

          5. Leilani says:

            No, I haven’t lost you. Sending you the original message in a second.

          6. HG Tudor says:

            Thank you ta.

          7. Leilani says:

            You called me “ta”? Is that your pet name for me now? Come back HG? Where is my Elite. I am what I am what I am did you know? I love me. I hope you accept. They are ordering all paperbacks tonight. The beginning..chap1. I wonder what’s next.

          8. HG Tudor says:

            No ta is a short form of thank you. “Thank you ta” is a way of saying thank you twice.

            Of course I accept you. Thank you for ordering the paperbacks.

          9. Leilani says:


          10. HG Tudor says:

            Yes Leilani?

          11. Leilani says:

            You said something about two greater being together. I replied back asking if you have been with one and if so, how different our potent fuel taste like in comparison with an emphat and/or a codependent during, in between and after the golden period. Easy, my oldest sibling sister is an Emphat/codependent but the rest are narcissist.

          12. HG Tudor says:

            No I have not locked horns with a greater in the setting of an intimate relationship because I know that the potential for potent fuel is far, far less than an empath or a co-dependent. I have had dealings with every school of narcissist as either a family member or say colleague or outer circle friend or acquaintance. I had one as an outer circle friend who was a lesser because whilst the fuel provision was low (not as low as a greater because the lesser would lose his temper regularly and that provided fuel) he also was a useful blunt instrument to use in the advancement of my own machinations. Thus a greater may interact with another narcissist at any level of Proximity of Supply but compared to an empath or co-dependent that narcissist would not provide sufficient fuel to sustain the “capturing narcissist” as a primary source, bur capturing one in one of the other forms of Proximity of Supply is more feasible.

      4. alexis2015s says:

        HG. Have you ever locked horns with another greater ? How did it end ?

        I’ve seen it happen between my MN and another. My MN came on the scene a few years after the other, but he made friends fast and eventually smeared the other and was able to back it up with some evidence. So everyone gave the other the silent treatment until he left.

        Interesting thing is they both somehow share the same ‘best friend’ he is a pure BPD. I’m not sure how this friendship has lasted ??

        1. HG Tudor says:

          The only one who I have locked horns with is MatriNarc and this has not ended yet, the battle continues.

          In your example it shows how two narcissists cannot exist side by side for long because of our nature. I advanced the situation to Leilani just a moment ago abut instances where I have utilised my kind outside of the intimate partner setting.

          The fact that the shared friend has BPD is a clue to how that relationship has persisted. The BPD pumps out enough fuel to keep both Ns satisfied without having to chase one another off.

          1. alexis2015s says:

            Thanks HG. Yes the battle between the two MNs is quite entertaining from my perspective. The other has gone on to be very successful as a direct result of being ostracised out of the group and he makes sure this is known all over social media. My MN literally turns green when he hears about his success. When I returned from NC I hadn’t realised the other was an MN but it soon became clear. I’d always liked him, he was fun But the signs soon became glaringly obvious. But we both used this to our advantage (and no not in a sexual way) but created more jealousy with my MN because there was nothing worse I could have done by firstly disappearing completely with no word, the grand Hoover was failing and I was sitting more in the camp of the other. I love to make the odd little comment now and then about how successful the other has become. That’s Gotta hurt haha

          2. alexis2015s says:

            So what’s of the lessers who pair with a greater ? Do they feel real pain? Can it regress them so they can grow again ? Do they only feel the emotions available to Ns, typically extreme jealousy and fury ? How does it pan out ?

            Does the lesser end up leaving the greater or just keep coming back for more ? Like a CD, can they withstand a lot more abuse ?

          3. HG Tudor says:

            A lesser who has been captured by a greater will find themselves irritated and frustrated because the fuel that is being provided is not enough (either in quantity or quality).

            The lesser would try to discard the greater and find a fuel source far more fulfilling. The Greater may manipulate the Lesser through hovering. The greater will get more fuel from the lesser, than the lesser does from the greater (because the lesser will rage, be frustrated and annoyed) but even so this is not sufficient for the Greater on any medium-term scale and the greater would ensnare and empath instead. A Greater may toy with a Lesser as a secondary source but it becomes counter productive to have another narcissist as a primary source.

          4. alexis2015s says:

            Hmmm interesting. So how do you tell the difference between a lesser N and a lesser BPD, because obviously I go around diagnosing everyone now. So someone I know who definitely has ASPD ans hence I’d thought they were an N, they’re not too bright but highly manipulative, they certainly appear to have no regard for anyone else but them self. No outward signs of self harm but incredibly low self esteem. So what would an acid test be to determine ?

          5. HG Tudor says:

            I would not claim to know how to spot a lesser BPD (even if there is such a thing) although I would recognise someone who has BPD.

          6. alexis2015s says:

            You’re so annoying !! Of course there is a scale for BPD in exactly the same way as there is Ns. They all differ in their intelligence and degree of BPDness.

          7. HG Tudor says:

            I’m not interested in BPD though other than when someone who has it serves my purpose as providing fuel.

          8. Leilani says:

            Thank you HG for the intense breakdown on a narcissist being with a narcissist. Haa, never thought I’d say that but I did.

          9. alexis2015s says:

            I’m really excited to hear more about MatriNarc, HG. Can you do a whole special post on it ?

          10. HG Tudor says:

            She is getting a book.

          11. alexis2015s says:

            Do the greaters try and avoid each other because battles deplete too much energy and the stakes are high ? How does it work ? There are certain greaters (politicians for example) who have to interact with each other and knowingly enter into this.

            HG I love it when you come up with new little niches that I need to explore and fully understand.

          12. HG Tudor says:

            Greaters will generally avoid one another because the fuel provision is just not good enough as a primary source. A Greater may interact with another Greater as a secondary or tertiary source. Using your political example, one narc greater politician may outflank another narc greater politician. This would not be as intimate partners as primary sources. The envy and frustration generated by the outflanked narc would provide some fuel to the other narc and also underline the other narc’s sense of superiority, thus there will be interaction on this level but not as primary source. The fuel just is not good enough.

      5. Leilani says:

        So does this mean you and I would stay towards one another and remain for the fuel and/if the potency of the fuel service both our satisfaction?

        1. Leilani says:

          This question is for you HG

          1. HG Tudor says:

            As always fuel is the rule. If the fuel justifies it, it will happen.

          2. Leilani says:

            I’m behind you on that HG.

  22. Maddie says:

    The pattern during the day is slightly different lol but that about sums it up… 😉

    1. Forever Waiting says:

      Sums it up for me and we worked together….everything there is exactly it bt he stayed 2 nights a week pretending he rented a house with colleagues (was a long drive). Money and lack of it and the business they both own has been the excuse….still is alost 4 years later. Yes he works constantly or as much as I believe he does at the weekend, but until a few days ago I really believed it was so he could leave. In actual fact as his contract came to an end the business was there to be a back up, and it’s still not in good place and even if it was…..they’d be another excuse but the money one sucked me in for years! even the 6pm last phonecard nd sneaky message at 9pm….are you the same person?! I KNEW all this, but denial is an ugly thing. Stupidly I still have hope…..he is not unhappy with someone he loves and works with now 24/7…’s all to cover and keep my hooked and extremely cruel when I’m childless, never been married and heading for 40. Luckily this Narcis situated hasn’t dented my self belief, I just don’t like him anymore. Did the no contact, he doesn’t step forward as I’m not his gf so he wouldn’t chase me. Every damn page I read on here is HIM! is he writing it?! He is too busy checking his phone every few hours waiting for a reply and fuel from his mistress…..

  23. Leilani says:

    This post is well clarified. Have you been with a married woman and/or would it matter if loads of fuel required is consistent HG? Ok, throw in the apple.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I have indeed.

      1. Leilani says:

        I thought so, HG.

  24. Fool me 1 time says:

    Once again you have hit on something that I just didn’t see! Xxx

  25. ann94063 says:

    This is too funny! Not too long ago, somebody actually had the audacity to use the tired line of “I’m lonely because I’m in a sexless relationship for years” on me. Then he proceeded to “explain” to me that the woman I saw him with before (that wasn’t his wife) was just a “friend.” Yeah…uh-huh…ok.

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