Get Some Help!
We do not seek treatment. The answer to why that is the case is a simple one. There is nothing wrong with us. Occasionally we may be compelled to undergo treatment but that is a different matter. We feel no compulsion at all to volunteer to be subjected to analysis and therapy because there is nothing wrong with us. Yes, we know that our treatment of other people is often unpleasant and has significant downsides to those who are subjected to it but that still does not amount to a good reason why we should seek some form of assistance. The way we behave is the way we behave. Deal with it. We cannot help but act this way because it is the way we have been designed. We must obtain our precious fuel and if that means we lash out and wound others, emotionally and physically then that it is the price that has to be paid. By you.
You must also remember that since we have no concept of empathy, when we see our behaviour injure others it does not affect us. We do not feel guilt, we do not feel shame at what we have done and we do not feel the need to put right the injurious harm we mete out to others. This is our modus operandi and it can never be changed. Add to that our lack of remorse and you have two huge reasons why we will not act to seek treatment to change our ways.
Naturally, there will be times where we will talk about seeking treatment.
“I need help, I know that now. You are the only one who can do it.”
“If I seek assistance for this terrible affliction, will you stay and help me?”
“I don’t know why I do it, perhaps I need help. Will you help me?”
“I need you. Don’t go. You have to save me from myself.”
“I will change, I will go and see somebody, just don’t leave me, please.”
These are all empty promises. Remember, words comes easy to us. We will dangle these carrots of penance and insight in order to get you to do what we want. Once that has been secured and you try to cash the cheque that we have written you will find the bank has not only been closed but razed to the ground. It is not a question of there being nothing to cash it against, there is nowhere to cash it.
Treatment is for the weak and foolish. To submit to it is an admission of weakness. In the rare instances that we will, it is only to enable us to get something else that we want or to prevent something drastic happening to us and thus we regard the pay-off as one worth making. We do this safe in the knowledge that any treatment will not be effective because:-
- We use our manipulative wiles to con the person treating us into concluding that there is nothing wrong with us;
- We spend the time trying to charm the therapist and this may work or if they are alive to our manipulation they are forced to terminate the work;
- We do not want to change and see the therapist’s actions as a direct challenge which we must thwart. Our energy is channelled into frustrating and defeating him or her and not applying ourselves to the treatment.
- We treat the treatment as a form of fuel.
47 thoughts on “Get Some Help!”
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Lisa. I’ve been with mine for 15 years. I agree with what HG says that she had no clue what he was and neither did I until recently. I knew he belittled me, blamed me and twisted things but for about the last 3 years it has been very bad. 2 reasons why it has lasted so long. First the behavior was sporadic. It started getting more constant when I was pregnant with our first child. Then even worse with my second and is now constant since I found out about the affair he had. Second I met him very young. (18) I was raised by single mom and didn’t know it wasn’t supposed to be like this. The only long term marriage I had to observe was my in laws and this is how they are.
I wanted to divorce and remain friends for the children’s sake. I am learning that it may not be possible. It could also be that mine isn’t a Narc maybe he is just a manipulative abusive A-Hole of epic per portions, still trying to figure it out.
Hi all and Sir HG, I’m posting on behalf of my friend again wink wink !! No seriously I would like to ask anyone that’s been married to a narc or you yourself regarding your marriage HG. My friend is not going to contact his ex wife and is purchasing HG’s books however .
She’s really struggling with the fact her narc was married for many years has 2 children and although has admitted cheating once which the wife found out about . They are now divorced and according to him good friends . He has access to the children . This is all his story . He claims he only became the way he was with my friend due to her , she made him bad tempered bla bla . He’s a text book narc and I would say greater as he has a lot of awareness talking about inner child but projecting a lot of this onto my friend . He broke up with her every few weeks with devaluations and nasty disgards . All of this blamed on her . She cannot understand how he was married all those years with kids and wasn’t like this with his wife (so he says) and that he and his wife are now good friends (so he says) however do appear to be amicable regarding the 2 young children . My friend is blaming herself for his dark narc behaviour and can’t understand how this marriage was ok . He says they never argued and he was laid back and not bad tempered during the marriage . I have said she is being brain washed and gas lighted by him by his version of the marriage . However I myself have torturted myself over why my narc had long term relationships with others even going on holiday with them etc and yet with me made very little effort although I do think maybe I challenged him to much I don’t know, plus he may be sugar coating past relationships. I always feel mine was different with all his exes and worse with me . But mine has not been married or had children . How are these narc marriages with children surviving so long when they devalue and disgard . Are they different with wives to girlfriends . I know the quality of fuel is a factor and I think my fuel was awful as I did question and challenge him a lot and I did break up with him as soon as he started his crap although always went back with sometimes me doing the chasing , blaming myself again for the break ups. But the marriages that last for years and the children . My friends ex has a good relationship with his children but they are very little therefore lots of fuel and no answering back . Plus good for appearances of playing daddy. How do narcs not discard or argue or devalue in marriages for years .
Hello Lisa, you are right to seize on the “so he says” element because that is fundamental to what is happening here. As it is often said “you do not know what goes on behind closed door.” The marriage gives the appearance of continuing but you have no idea what chaos may be occurring. He will be vacillating between the two primary sources. The wife probably has no idea what he is and lives the rollercoaster as because there are children involved she wants to keep the family unit together. Accordingly, she makes many sacrifices to do this and does not escape. The N knows this and therefore when he discard he knows he can pick her up again in a few weeks’ time and she will take him back. At best she may accommodate this behaviour through making sacrifices because she wants to keep the family unit together, does not understand, hopes he will change, is taken in by his charm and promises, convinces herself “it’s not bad all of the time” the usual excuses. At worst she is co-dependent and clings desperately to him. The fact is he will be devaluing her you just do not see it. He will discard her, you just don’t see it happening.
But HG, you are in treatment! What is your motive if I may be so bold?
What is my motive for being in treatment?
I think you’re getting rewarded for it in some way if they deem you cured. But…I think there’s a part of you that’s beginning to at least be curious about the real emotions a non experiences, even if you can’t admit it yet.
You are therapy for me. I will never stop learning as long as you are willing to post.
Thank you 1jaded, I appreciate that. I have plenty more to post, plenty more.
That POS was constantly trying to get me into therapy! I finally agreed, what a joke! He sat there like an angel and I was pissed off the whole time because he was so full of shit! I went to a male therapist alone after that, he insisted so I said I will go to one alone and he went to some hack alone. My therapist specialized in trauma and worked mostly with police officers and war vets. After 3 visits he asked me… Do you know what projection is? Do you know what mirroring is? At the time I had no clue but he was trying to tell me something, he saw all the symptoms of an abused woman. He told me that he felt I knew who I was and saw no need for me to be in therapy, when I got home and told that asshole what my therapist said he was mad as hell. I think he wanted to pin all the bullshit on me. Little did I know at that time what was wrong.
You were and still are my treatment HG!! I will never be able to thank you enough for that!!!! Xxx
Oh I am sure I will think of something.
Now now HG!! Such a naughty boy!! Xxx
HG , I am just waiting for the day when You go public on this whole subject and become the break through person and writer regarding NPD . Which will then lead to all kinds of other personality disorders being brought to the attention of the masses . He obviously has his reasons for remaining anonymous . But if he did he would not need matrinarcs money if this is what it’s all about and MatriNarc would be exposed for what she is . I’m sure she would enjoy that ALOT !! People who lack empathy or objectify other life forms are one of the most dangerous things in society . Never mind romantic heart breaks what about child molesters and murders and children being brought up by narcs . The whole thing needs to be exposed on a big level . HG needs to be doing main stream interviews and more writing that is even talked about in schools . HG will probably not ever stop being a narc/ path he will just redefine his methods to work in a different way for him . He will remain the same maybe more awareness but his manipulations will be adapted accordingly . Even he must know that his past and current shananagins will have to shift slightly with age and time . Your followers can only spread the word so far . I will happily recommend your blog your books but most people I know don’t even know what a narcissist is let alone think they’ve met one or know one . I’ve dated one and I’m still trying to comprehend it and I believe everything you write but my head just still thinks No surely not !! Even now I have to force myself to believe it was all a lie from him . The only thing that concerns me is if there was ever a HG book signing B&T would kidnap him 😉
Thank you Lisa and I agree. I look at the news from many different sources and I see our kind there every day. From driven Olympians, to corrupt businessmen, wife beaters, demagogue political leaders, the jilted partner describing their heartache at the hands of an ex, the molesters, the diva pop star, the thieving post man and so on and society has no idea. Only the other day I saw an article in the Daily Mail which described the lengths some people went to in order to get an ex to come back. I read through them and the majority we clearly hoovers given the nature of the steps taken yet did anybody mention this word? Did anyone link this on the face of it odd yet laughable behaviour to something all the more dangerous, no they did not. This is why we are able to do as we please. This is why I asked the question the other week about what are people going to do about it? Think how much pain, time and money would be saved if people knew what to look out for, what to do if they become ensnared etc? The weapons grade information is there. It is up to those in positions of responsibility to use and disseminate it.
HG,
I read the link last night that somebody put on one of your posts…bpd. the person who writes the blog has an article about love between a Narc and Bpd. She says that narc will love to dish out therapy to others because at their core self they are givers….trying to please by love bombs in the beginning and then taking away when discard. She says that they feel superior in every thing including therapy. And love to be the authority and tell people what to do. If people don’t come to them for help it lowers fuel. Truth?
There is force in the suggestion that we do like to be the authority on many things, but with that comes this caveat. The Greater of our kind are invariably successful and leaders in our fields and therefore we are the authority on a subject anyway, it has nothing to do with being a giver. I also know that in some fields I do not know everything. I do not like that but better I play to my strengths than set myself up for a fall by opining on something I know little about and thus suffering crushing criticism. A Mid-Range falls into the trap of knowing something, portraying himself as knowing even more and failing to recognise when he may make a mistake. Yes we feel superior in everything and that superiority extends to Greaters in knowing which battles to fight.Of course we know who can be bluffed and we will often do that. We will use the traits garnered from others in order to portray ourselves as better than we are, but with Greaters we have the goods and the awareness to know if there is a potential pitfall ahead. A timely example is the exchange of German with Nikita. I rarely use my German which I really only used at school. Nikita speaks it every day. Thus I know she will speak it far better than I will. I do not like this fact but I am not going to give her the easy win. We shall converse in English instead which is my language and whilst her English is very good, it is not her strongest language. I identify the area where I am the authority, evade the area where I am not and triumph. This is the approach of the Greater, the Mid Range would fall foul of trying to be too clever and could well become unstuck. I disagree that at the core we are givers. We are takers.
This one really hits home. G is multilingual and is very proud of this fact. I guess I would be, too. When I met him I was determined to show him that even though I was not at his level in many ways, I could improve myself and learn, and I was determined to try to master two languages. I have a lot of Spanish-speaking friends and I know a few words here and there but nothing really impressive. French is a language I wish I could speak as it is so beautiful and romantic. At different times G and I went on trips in countries where the main language was Spanish or French. He used to encourage me to improve myself and would translate various words for me. But then when we went to restaurants or other places where we had to interact with people, he would totally humiliate me and I think he enjoyed watching me mess up a phrase he had just taught me, or screw up the pronunciation of a menu item. He would then take over in his perfect Spanish or French, and for all I know he was making fun of me to the cute waitress or salesgirls.
More than likely Cody.
I did not choose to seek help…my mother (who also doesn’t choose to seek help) insisted I get help for my drinking, and, without the liquor I found I was depressed & just unhappy in life, and Dr. Ash is a PRESCRIBING doctor (because taking a fist full of pills is more socially acceptable than drinking all the bourbon) so I found treatment can be useful.
Cara, drink the swill to swallow the pill.
Lol
Question for HG – it has become obvious to me that the only way to get out is for it to be his idea. Have you written on how to make him leave me? I can’t go NC as there are kids involved, I’ve been blocked from leaving twice and threatened to be hunted down. I left the first time after an affair but he talked me into coming back after a few days to work on us, if I had any idea it would have turned into constant abuse of course I wouldn’t have done it. I’m isolated so no support network to lean on. I do get the silent treatment for weeks but he doesn’t leave (wish he would).
Read Departure Imminent and Escape.
I know both are difficult but you need to decide which is less difficult? Leaving him or trying to force him out? The second is usually harder.
Do you have grounds to seek an injunction and an order to have him removed from the property? Are you the primary carer to the children? Trying to get him to leave by reducing the provision of fuel will be difficult because all he will do is seek it elsewhere and keep returning to the house in order to try to torment you (given where you are I suspect you coping abilities will be lower so he will eventually draw fuel from you and send you back to square one) therefore forcing him to depart through the application of techniques is going to be very difficult. The better route is prepare and leave as per the books mentioned or if need be have him removed through law. You may need to give some thought to ensuring you have independent evidence which would allow you to have him removed. You left once so you have done it and therefore keep that in your mind. This time you need to ensure you prepare properly so that when you do go, it is effective and you are not lured back and you place yourself in a place where he cannot reach you or it is difficult to do so. Departure Imminent has material on this for you. Overall I think you are better served making your escape than trying to get him to leave.
Thank you. I will read both of those, and greatly appreciate the advise. You have turned into my most read author, ever.
I do not have hard evidence it is all he said she said at this point. But I will work on gathering some. Yes I was able to leave once but I had help back then. That was the first thing he took out after I came back which makes it so much harder. Of course I didn’t know what he was then. Mine is a solid mid possibly greater narc very scheming everything is said/done for a reason.
I apologize if my original question shows up as a double post. There seems to be a long delay.
You are welcome and thank you.
The posts are moderated first, hence the delay in it appearing.
Agree with Cass the best treatment was this blog. My ex even told me when he tried to hoover through the kids and the things he had here.. ” you made therapy right” ….
The best therapy to realize all the manipulations and games..😃😃.
Thankyou HG for this blog 💝
You are most welcome Nikita and thank you for reading.
I agree with all the above. I would recommend this as the best therapy out there. I have learned so much in the past two weeks on this blog. I’m going to my therapist tonight to tell her all about it.
Thank you Snow White and tell everybody you meet along the way too!
“Once that has been secured and you try to cash the cheque that we have written you will find the bank has not only been closed but razed to the ground.”
Stunning.
HG and followers this is a random question from a friend of mine who does not follow this blog . She is tempted to contact her narcs ex wife or ex girlfriends to discuss their experiences with them . She had a brutal face to face disgard from him 2 months ago and hasn’t heard since he has also blocked her on social media . What is your advice about contacting the male narcs exes /ex wife ? This is not my situation but my friend asked me to seek advice thank you
Ah the old “asking for a friend” eh Lisa?
First of all, why isn’t your friend not following this blog. Does she realise that is heresy?!
What is the dynamic? Was your friend having an affair with the narc and the ex-wife is the other party or was she off the scene and then your friend came along? Are there any children involved?
HG , ha ha . No it really is a friend . I’ve bared my soul in this blog not to mention in email to you . Even telling you where I live (without the post code of course 😜) Mine has never been married and has no children . I send her things from your blog but she says it’s too painful to read your stuff . Her narc was married and has 2 kids, they are now divorced and he has access to the children . Oddly his ex wife is a therapist . Anyway my friend wants to speak to the ex wife about him being a narc . She was his girlfriend for 1 year and it was after the divorce . I think she would like clarification from the ex wife that she agrees he’s a narc . But it could turn ugly as they share children and he has visiting access etc so they must be pretty amicable
Why does she need validation from the ex wife? She can achieve that from her own knowledge of how he has behaved. How was she proposing to initiate contact to begin with, with the ex wife?
Lisa, when I finally opened my eyes and figured out what my ex really is I was still learning so much. I hastliy sent him a text with several articles about narcissism begging him to get help for himself and his kids (didn’t realize it was probably used against me in some way).
I also sent a text to his new/old/new again fuel (aka current wife) telling her everything that transpired between us the past year. I did not however tell her what I thought he was bc I did not fully know at this time. She never responded back and for now they are happily ever after again (it’s FB official😋).
The irony in all of this is that when he left her for a hot minute in May and came back to me she was begging, pleading, texting him every day trying to convince him to come back bc he showed me all of these text daily (I bet he was in triagulation fuel heaven at the time).
Anyway, she actually sent him a text with an article on sociopaths and narcissists but she was accusing ME of being one, not him. So even though she knows what went on between us and confessed to “loving” me I’m sure now he has her convinced that I’m the narc and I tricked him into loving me…yada yada!
Long story short its way too exhausting to try to convince or explain to others (or the narc) what they are, what you’ve been through, or what they will go through. This article already proves that the narc won’t change if they don’t have to (if it aint broke don’t fix it). That there will always be someone willing to drink the koolade and until they discover the bitter taste for themselves you telling them wont mean a thing and will most likely be used against you.
Well put.
Alex , thank you and yes I agree I have told her that I don’t think it’s a good idea and I’ve sent her your message and told her HG said no . I think she’s just having a bad day . But she should follow the blog . It’s terrible reading these posts that HG does but I’ve found I have to otherwise I stay in denial and slip in and out of it constantly . I would never discuss my narc with his other women . I wouldn’t give him the satisfaction . Not that I know who any of them are anyway .
Lisa – speaking from past personal experience, all she is going to get is a bigger headache with a dose of chaos for good measure. The narcissist will do a few things (and probably some I’m not aware of). For starters, if he finds out, he will make it his goal to make you pay. I had my tires slashed for starters. Thereby, getting more negative fuel and vindication from our heated exchange. Then he will try to triangulate with anyone that’s been contacted and make himself look like the good guy while smearing you in the process.
Don’t do it. It’s not worth it. Not one bit. This last time, I just left. I have no desire to contact any former, current, or future women. Tell your friend to walk away, keep her head high, surround herself with love, and forget that rat bastard. She can get validation from reading HG’s blog.!! That’s validation enough.!
I remember my ex protesting after a 2 week separation, that we could not possibly end our marriage without trying to save it, let’s go to counseling, we haven’t tried that yet! I knew it would never happen, he just needed me to believe it would so I would let him back in. He would continue to remind me for over a year that I gave up on “us” and how I wouldn’t even try counseling, how he was willing and I wasn’t. It was very frustrating knowing he was full of it, and have to fight feelings of guilt, that I didn’t give it a chance.
Entirely typical step there CC.
“In certain instances, the abuse we dole out is such that it seriously damages the recipient and therefore treatment is needed to deal with the symptoms of our behavior towards you.”
When you read your own words, you feel nothing? I know, after reading “I Object”, I got a better sense of this lack of empathy, and could “empathize” the lack of empathy a little bit….but it still boggles my mind.
No shame, no guilt, even from an intellectual/theoretical place, if not emotional? If that even makes sense as a concept…
No, none at all. Imagine building a car and deciding there was no need for tinted windows so you do not include them. There was no need for guilt or remorse or empathy when I was made what I am, so I didn’t get them.
And when we’re you made what you are? You see, I do not reference my ability to empathize as a “when I was made what I am”….it Just is, like red hair. So, I’m curious if you know when, as I think I follow why you say it..
I think most of us would agree that you’ve been our professional HG, giving insight and steering a course through the murky waters of understanding and recovery.
Thank you Cass.
When I left my ex I told her that I was now in therapy. She asked if it was because of her!!! Of course it was and I told her that. Was she smiling inside? What kind of fuel HG do you get from an IP that just told you that you had to seek therapy because of being in a relationship with them? I can only imagine. … BTW I love reading about your sessions with the two therapists. Makes me laugh.
It is a large amount of fuel.
I am pleased you enjoy reading about my interactions with the good doctors. Many of my posts arise from my interaction and discussions with them even though I may not write it as an exchange between them and me, I often take the source of what was said and relay it in a different way rather than dialogue, thus if people think they haven’t seen an exchange for a while between them and me, you have and often, it is just written in a different way.