How No Contact Feels – Part Two

 

Image result for picture of a man begging

 

The response of the Lesser Narcissist to the implementation of No Contact has been described, what then of the Mid-Range Narcissist? Let us begin with the scenario where you have decided to escape him and you convey this news to him in person.

The declaration that you are ending the Formal Relationship will naturally result in the Mid Ranger experiencing criticism and thus his fury will be ignited. Unlike the Lesser, The Mid Ranger will be able to exert some control over this ignited fury. He also tends to have it manifest as cold fury, rather than heated fury. The initial response will be for the Mid Ranger to keep the ignited fury under control. Instead, he will focus his energies on a Preventative Hoover as he tries to stop you from moving forward with your stated intention. The Mid Ranger will rarely utilise charm in the Preventative Hoover (unlike the Greater) but instead will opt for deploying a Pity Play and appealing to your empathic traits such as compassion, pity and guilt. The Mid Ranger, will not, at least at first, lash out like a Lesser. He can maintain some control for a short period of time. He is also predisposed to acting in a passive aggressive manner along with having the benefit of having some calculating ability. He will realise that you are naturally dissatisfied with his behaviour and performance in the Formal Relationship and this is what he will seize on. Whilst he is able to maintain control, he will opt for apologising and showing apparent recognition of the faults you may well have described in your parting shot. When telling a Mid Ranger that the Formal Relationship is at an end, you should expect to hear the following comments: –

“I realise now that things are not as good as they should be, I am sorry.”

“You are right; I have not been thinking about you as much as I should have.”

“I have been busy with work and I have neglected you. I guess I have been trying to do the right thing for us by working hard, but I got it wrong.”

“I won’t be able to manage without you.”

“You cannot leave me; I won’t know what to do.”

“I will be lost without you.”

“I should have realised sooner but I have been distracted, I have not treated you as well as I should have.”

“Please give me a chance to put things right.”

“You are right in what you say, I need to change. I can. Please will you help me?”

“I just need another chance and you will see that I can makes things right again.”

You can expect earnest looks, tears and apparent remorse and contrition. None of it is real in terms of being meant for you. Instead this is the manifestation of the Mid-Ranger’s growing fear at the looming loss of his primary source. He is fearful for himself, feels sorry for himself and appears to be contrite and remorseful purely as a device to stop you from leaving.

If this Preventative Hoover fails, then the Mid-Range suffers a further criticism and now his ignited fury can no longer be kept under control. He lacks the ability to continue this control and furthermore the increased criticism has wounded him considerably meaning the wound needs to be healed. The ignited fury causes him to seek fuel and since you are proximate to him, that fuel will be sought from you.

The immediate manifestation of this ignited fury will be through cold fury. The Mid Ranger will sulkily seek to apply emotional blackmail against you in order to provoke a reaction from you and thus gain fuel. Expect to hear comments such as: –

 

“I cannot believe you are doing this after everything that I have done for you.”

“So, this is how you treat someone who has loved you like nobody else?”

“How can you do this to me? Don’t I mean anything to you?”

“I was right. You are just selfish aren’t you? I have done so much for you and you treat me like dirt.”

“You are a selfish bitch, all my friends said you would do this, but oh no, I defended you. Looks like I wasted my time.”

Note how in the Preventative Hoover there was apparently some recognition of being at fault, some sense of culpability and blame? That was false and this is demonstrated by the sudden switch to blaming you instead. It was never the fault of the Mid Ranger; it was your fault all along. He is hard done to and you are the horrible, awful person who has been so beastly to him.

If you react and provide fuel, the Mid Ranger will keep going, laying the guilt on thick in order to heal his wound with the fuel that you have provided. If you supply sufficient fuel for this to happen and his ignited fury is extinguished, he will then withdraw. He will not risk attempting a further Preventative Hoover. He has enough awareness to realise that his shift to blaming you, insulting you and accusing you of being the one at fault will not bring you back. However, with fury extinguished he will instead withdraw and turn his attention to seeking a new primary source. You will be let go and in his mind the Mid-Ranger will be the one who has ended it.

If you fail to provide any fuel at this additional criticism, if you are dealing with a Lower Mid-Ranger you may find yourself subjected to some property destruction and/or low level violence (slapping, pushing, spitting) in order to try again to draw fuel. If it is provided, the behaviour will continue until the fury is extinguished and then he will withdraw.

If you fail to provide any fuel, then the Mid Ranger will effectively flounce off and walk away from you. This happens for two reasons. Firstly, this enables him to maintain that he ended the relationship with you. Secondly, this is because he will now seek out sympathetic secondary and even tertiary sources to regale them with his tale of woe at how horrible you have been and to smear you. This will garner him the fuel he needs (since you failed to provide it) and his wound will be addressed. He will then focus on acquiring the new primary source to replace you, leaving you alone. The Mid Ranger will be extensive in his smearing of you and the sucking up of sympathy from anybody and everybody. He will play the victim to a considerable degree and is therefore likely to obtain the fuel he needs to heal his wound and then provide him with the energy to seek out the new primary source. He will play the hard done to spouse, the cuckolded boyfriend as he invents all manner of tales about your reprehensible behaviour in order to milk the situation he is in for all it is worth.

If you do not tell the Mid Ranger that the Formal Relationship has ended in person and instead you send a message, leave a note and let him work it out for himself, he will attempt to prevent the implementation of No Contact through a Preventative Hoover before it is too late. You will be bombarded with messages, telephone calls and personal appearances for the purpose of pleading with you and begging you. Expect stones thrown at your window and begging displays from underneath your bedroom window. His remorse will be extensive and the desire to change significant but it is all part of the Preventative Hoover. If this fails, he will switch to lashing out at you as described above in order to try and gain fuel.

If the Mid Ranger is unable to effect any kind of contact with you since your implementation of No Contact has been so total, he will be forced to seek fuel from secondary and tertiary sources. He will do so on the basis of self-pity, misery and wanting sympathy from those sources. The Mid Ranger is apt to using this sympathy milking to promote an inner circle friend who is comforting him during this terrible period to a new primary source so that he gains fuel quickly and is then able to focus on this person and forget about you. If there is no promotion, even whilst drawing the sympathy fuel form secondary and tertiary sources the Mid Ranger will be looking for a new primary source in order to re-instate the appropriate fuel level which has been removed by your commencing No Contact.

If the Mid Ranger should find himself in the position of not being able to draw fuel from secondary or tertiary sources or he uses up those reserves before he is able to secure a new primary source, then he will slip into isolation and depression. This is rare for the Mid Ranger. This is because invariably he has enough cognitive function to draw the fuel from secondary and tertiary sources to sustain him whilst he secures a primary source. He has enough ability to know how to portray his situation to maximise his position.

The Mid Ranger, of the three schools of narcissism behaves the most pathetically when there is the threat of and the subsequent implementation of No Contact. He first begs and pleads. If that does not work, he blames and lashes out verbally, but it is petulant and sulky. There is no terrible fury like that of the Lesser. He is not even able to launch into strong violence, opting instead for milder forms as described above. Eventually he withdraws and seeks the solace of others by doling out pity plays to anybody who will listen and leaving you well alone for fear of further criticism.

Of course hoovers may follow in the future, dependent on the relevant criteria, but for the Mid Ranger, the threat of No Contact brings a desperate plea to prevent it and in the event that fails, expect petulant insults, self-pity and withdrawal, with the attendant smearing and need to draw sympathy from others.

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90 thoughts on “How No Contact Feels – Part Two”

  1. Wow, I am leaning more and more to Mid Range for my ex, the only thing that trips me up, is the silent treatments, he rarely used that tactic in the relationship, though I do suspect he used it on me after….there would be times I would not hear from him for days when I would text something about the kids or the divorce etc. My ex said almost everything written in this post! I am glad I continue to read your work HG, it continues to keep my mind straight, even though I am a lot better now, and it is difficult to get me to fall for his games anymore, I do have bouts of emotion and question myself …especially when things are quiet and calm, and I start to wonder, maybe I am creating all this in my head….and then I read this and I think, “thank you HG!” for showing me again, proving he truly is exactly what I think he is.

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  2. My tears slide down my cheek as I am dealing with the effects of his manipulations with my children. I had a calm period for some time as he went out of town for work for a few months, in that time I have managed to get my kids on track and building our relationships it’s a long story, but it’s been a solid year to guide my kids back to mom(me) not hating me and healing. As soon as my ex is back the games began …he loves to pit me against them, mom’s boring, mom’s mean, mom ruins all the fun…etc etc. The games good God the games…it’s the only way he can mess w me even if I don’t react he knows I’m feeling it and as you have described HG that’s still fuel for him just knowing he’s causing heartache.

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      1. H.G. predicted at least 4 Hoover attempts over a 1-yr span, prior to them happening, and I was convinced I had heard the last of JN. I’m again at a place where I think he is done for good. HG claims to keep a watch at my emails which is the only medium I could be contacted.
        It is uncanny to the point of being annoying. He’s always right… 😉

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      2. Thank you for that confirmation Clarece and for subscribing to NarcOverSeer – keeping the bad guys at bay with an even bigger bad guy

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      3. Do you recall Jules’s wallet from “Pulp Fiction”? Yeah, you should have one of those.

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  3. Is it also fair to say with the Mid-Rangers and their propensity to being sulky and passive aggressive, when they choose to Hoover, it will most likely be malign hoovers with the intent to specifically reel you back in, to push you off of the cliff even farther in order to punish?

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    1. I think they would be more inclined to blame you so you feel guilty and come back. That’s not to say that an Upper Mid-Range wouldn’t look to punish though.

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      1. Well, I just had to hit the reset button about 2 weeks ago after he had reached out to me. With the help of this blog, after reading and taking everything in for several months, I’m in a place where I can refrain and go no contact and not reach out to him. The minute he contacts me though, it sets me off and I can’t let it go then… yet. But, I am much less emotional now when he does reach out.

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      2. Hi, MLA…it is a process isn’t it? Especially when they Hoover so repeatedly. Well done on no contact. I have been for two months now, he tried one Hoover and then had someone else try…..HG thinks as long as I do not respond he will stop. He has other compliant appliances to occupy him, so I should know be okay.
        That is it, the emotional aspect, I am a highly emotional person. So it took so much not to reply to him when he emailed, as I do not ignore. That is the N forte 😏

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      3. I think with me, when it pertains to JN and only him, he excessively abused silent treatments so much, that if he has the audacity to keep reaching out, he’ll get a response. I’ve had to go silent with a few other people over my adult life. I think it was easier though because I had some kind of closure with them.

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      4. Yes, CN abused silent treatments as well, it was torturous emotionally, I know you understand.
        Yes, it is easier to go silent when you have the relationship resolved through communcation and mutually agree to end and part ways. I understand what you mean about JN, and why you respond and I am sure you can match him and then some. CN always thought he was so clever and underestimated me. I have chosen not to smear him, In the way he would and probably has of me…as I was called a heartless bitch for leaving him, but the source that called me that, is susceptible. I know I loved him and I tried more then most would , I even accepted the fact he was a N. Still, he couldn’t give me anything but deceptions and silences and rages, so I had to leave. If I think about it too much it makes me sad it had to be this way. but, how many more years of this could or should I have endured. Or anyone us? It is for the best MLA to release ourselves. Sorry he keeps harassing you though. Glad the emotional side of it all has waned for you.

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  4. Spot on. My ex exactly. Damn, it is as if there are instruction manuals on each. I did it face to face 7 weeks ago and went no contact (except I kept phone messages open in cases I got a message—I know, I know—not how to do it, but I wanted to know if he would hoover). He was hung over from a relapse. When I told him “we were done, I am through” (no details, no blaming, short and sweet on my end, just pissed and done), he sat there with the cold gray eyes in a “cold fury” and sulked. I get a pathetic text saying “you will see improvement” (I didn’t respond) and one week later a call with the “I love you, I am sorry” and referencing to himself as a “piece of shit” and wished me a nice day (Pity Ploy). I ignored and took it as a hoover. I have gotten emails from a third party saying he has lost his job, sunk into depression and is not following treatment for sobriety. I have let these go now to junk mail.

    I feel more closure now and my self returning and every time I read something here, HG, I am reminded I wasn’t wrong and that I did the right thing by leaving.

    My ex husband destroyed parts of my car when I left. Hmmmmm…faked a suicide attempt(was told by nurses it was faked to keep me). Snt a letter wishign I was dead. Hmmmmmm…never thought of him as a narcissist. We were married for 6 years. I wonder now. He still sends messages out of the blue too. Wishing me well, ect. after such a nasty divorce and I cut things off with him, almost like no contact but I had no idea what no contact was back then. …and we have been divorced since 98. The thing that he didn’t do was gas lighting. That was my more recent ex’s little gift to me….the experience of gas lighting and silent treatments…..and lots of pouting. Petulant is a good word for it.

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      1. Poetic Me, yeah, it is interesting. As noted earlier and in a different post memory is an interesting thing in the trauma dynamic. When in the abusive environment, we do forget many little things frequently and often excuse the behavior. I forgot how many times my recent ex said nasty things how many times he engaged inGaslighting. I developed amnesia while in the cycle of abuse. It got to the point where I had to start journaling to remind myself how bad it was. I think it has something to do with heightened cortisol and poor memory encoding. However I will never forget now. And you are right poetic me, they conveniently “forget” all the things they did, and expect us to go along with the façade. It’s infuriating and and invalidating of the entire experience.

        I meant to ask you, who is D? …is he a recent relationship or one from long past? If you told me, I’m sorry I sometimes have a poor memory (no joke intended, but laughing at my bad memory these days)

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      2. He used gaslighting in me as well, my memory is quite good , I do not forget certain things, exp conversations and events. Yes, their lack of regard or memory does invalidate for us….we can be thankful and grateful, we do not think or treat or behave in this manner towards others, especially those we genuinely love and respect.
        D , is the mid range cerebral narcissist I dated and the reason I came to this blog, the one I have been no contact with for two months, he hoovered over month ago, I didn’t respond.

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      3. Ah!! Your D sounds quite similar to mine. Mine too was a midrange cerebral and I have been NC for 7 weeks with the last hoover about a month ago as well (voice mail) and I ignored too. We were engaged and together for just shy of 2 years. He is the reason I am here….a lot of coincidences or synchronicities 🙂 Glad to be here 🙂

        Hope you are doing well as of late!! Best,
        Indy

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      4. Thank you Indy, it is like so many of us have lived and are living the same life, with same men….the similarities are eerie, indeed. Glad you are here too. You have wonderful insight and personality to share. I am doing okay, I do not think he will Hoover me again, if he does it won’t be any time soon. I wish the same for you too, Indy x

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  5. Thankyou for this site I’ve found . It’s shocking… Shit! narcassists are everywhere! And I’ve just spent 2 years with one! A repulsive monster but a good actor . I did tell him he should audition for a part in coronation street . He would definitely get it!

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      1. True ha ha … Well he can aim as high as he wants . my aim is to send him to prison . I won’t rest until he’s in a cell…. Watching coronation street 👌😂

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  6. Really good article HG. This has confirmed for me what I suspected that the the narc that I still have contact with is a Mid ranger.

    Previous attempt to end the formal relationship a few months ago was met with apologies and then a hoover but there have been several ST’s since which I suspect were payback for the criticism and him finding another source.

    Today I decided to go no contact. I’ve been fooling mtself these last few months that I could continue to be involved with him if the relationship was more casual. I have not told him this I’m just going to let him work it out. I’ve made a pact with an understanding friend of mine that whenever I experience a moment of weakness and am tempted to contact him I’m going to message her instead.

    It’s going to be tough as I still have feelings for him but I can’t keep punishing myself by continuing to be around him. I’m grateful for this blog I think it will help me be strong.

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    1. Thank you CR12, you have plenty of knowledge now to assist you with starting NC. Good move in not telling him, build those defences quick before the IGH comes.

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      1. There was method in the madness as I’m going on holuday soon so he won’t be able to get hold of me so easily. Recharge my batteries in readiness.

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    2. Well done, Centauride, on No contact, there really is no other way forward. I still loved D when I left him. i will never hate him. It just wasn’t meant to be any longer, he had an oppurtunity of acceptance and he couldn’t accept it. The same way I couldn’t accept the lies and disrespect any longer.

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  7. I know he has a new person. This pisses me off as the damn sun is shinning so flipped bright on his side of the street!
    Do you think he will Hoover me if I stop contact? Say in 6 months?
    Day 1

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  8. I have a hard time reading all of this I’m not sure how to explain….my wife sent me pictures of her burning all my clothes and then saying I love to watch it burn, she attempts to dictate when I talk to our daughter sometimes I get to talk to her for 1 min other days 15….
    I remember a time when I was working and my wife came to visit she got a speeding ticket and blamed me for it, and told me coming to visit me was a complete waste of her time
    Another time she was driving down a street that was clearly posted that at certain times of the day u are not allowed she got a ticket and keyed her own car
    I was taking our grandson back to the city with us I asked her if it was on she didn’t say a word sink took it as an ok when we stopped for a smoke I stepped outside the truck and she freaked and told me I was never allowed to bring my grandson with me without discussing it with her first..,,I’m a little scared the more I read

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  9. No question he was mid now. Dude even had cuckold listed as a fetish. But knowing that he probably actually did go off and sulk up in his little fortress of solitude makes me feel sorry for him. He just ripped my heart up so bad though. I never actually understood what all those songs meant when they talked about love being painful until him.

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      1. Hello Lacy, I assume you meant same here with the cuckold.

        The behaviour of our kind who likes to be cuckolded serves two functions.

        1. We must exert control over our environments and this especially includes our primary sources. For some of our kind, who are less able, this is often hard and taxing work. Being cuckolded allows escapism from the exertion of control ; and
        2. The escapism is achieved but at the same time, by bringing in a bull to deal with the primary source, the primary source is still exerted to control but of a different nature.
        Thus our kind achieves relief from the control but still causes control.
        I would not agree to cuckolding as it would offend my sense of superiority but Lesser and especially Mid-Range Narcissists would engage in such behaviour.

        It is akin to those who engage in pursuits such as being disciplined and chastised, for example caned, it is done not primarily for the sexual enjoyment – although that plays a part – but it the relinquishing of control to somebody else by someone who perhaps always has to exert control or be seen to do so, in their day to day life.

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      2. Thank you HG for your response below. I wasn’t able to reply at that point because I never received the confirmation email. Can you explain # 2 in more detail? This behavior seems to contradict the jealousy that seems to permeate your kind. I would think that it would be infuriating to have the primary give such attention else where. Can this backfire on the narc, meaning he didn’t like it once it happened? Is there a danger element that he is looking for such as the potential loss of the primary to this new participant? Assuming this happens during devaluation, do they really come to hate their primary for doing this to them even though they wanted it? It would seem that the primary is “damned if you do, damned if you don’t”. Thanks to you I’m on top!

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      3. Certainly Lacy. Ordinarily we must control everything around us. For those of my kind who are less developed, this is a tiring task. By way of analogy, during the Second World War, France was invaded and leaving the issue of the French Resistance to one side, the population of France didn’t like their conquerors but generally had to go along with it. This reluctant compliance met that the Nazi regime did not have to dedicate massive resources to keeping the French in line since the French (largely) did so themselves having been invaded. Norway by contrast occupied the most Nazi resources per head of population with there being one German solider per eight Norwegians as a consequence of the initial resistance to invasion (at two months the Norwegians held out the longest of any country that was invaded) and the general lack of collaboration. I appreciate there are greater complexities but for the sake of this example it works. In having to garrison hundreds of thousands of troops in Norway, the Germans had to invest considerable effort in maintaining control. This is what we experience. We deploy considerable resources to controlling you and we face the desire to have that burden lifted BUT we do not want to lose control. The Germans similarly, when wanting to invade a country wanted to maintain control but lift the burden of control – hence they wanted collaborative puppet governments.
        Thus although you might regard the primary source as giving attention elsewhere to the bull, from our perspective, this is not the case. We are relinquishing control – to the bull – but because we have instigated this arrangement, we still maintain control through a proxy. Thus, we are able to alleviate some of the burden for a period of time but not lose overall control.
        Yes there might be a potential loss of the primary source but it is unlikely as the bull may well be a lieutenant or otherwise will be a stranger to the primary source.
        Your sentiments concerning the position of the primary source are not incorrect.

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      1. Hahhaha I fell asleep on you HG or no way would I have let you get away with that one !! Next time !! Next time ! All that cookie cutting had worn me out !

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  10. Hmm, he did used to apologize, but he never asked for a second chance or admit he didn’t show me enough time or attention. Instead he would tell me how I deserve better and should find someone else and move on and be happy. Or went straight to heated fury, and name calling and blame, Followed by cold fury and withdraw, silent treatment,
    I always felt his withdrawal was shame or guilt due to the horrid things he spewed at me. Maybe it was just to repair his wounds.

    Yes, I ended it and he went to straight the person I assume he had lined up as my replacement, the bench warmer, In case I decided to end relationship. He wasted no time, or having others inform me, I assumed he wanted to punish me for wounding him. He left one email as a Hoover measure and had a friend of his send me message via messenger. Otherwise there has been no other attempts to contact me. I am sure since I ignored his attempt, he would not try again until his new source lets him down as well. Or something makes him think about me, music, my voice( that time he cut a silent treatment short because the audio book he was listening to, the female voice sounded like me), searching for me via social media, looking at photos of me, someone mentioning my name.

    So, HG , essentially even though he always stated I should find someone better then him, he is still wounded I left, not for another man, but because of his persistent lies and silent treatments? Do you think based on his brooding nature, and propensity to blame me, I will not hear from him again, Hoover wise, as long as I maintain No Contact, which I have?

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    1. The comment about finding someone better is done so that you say,
      “But I don’t want anyone else, you are the best.”
      Or if you do leave he can tell people,
      “I let her go, it was the right thing to do for her, for both of us” and thus he gains appreciative and sympathetic fuel.
      Your mention of him contacting you because a voice in an audio book reminded him of you is an interesting example of you entering the sixth sphere of influence. There was nothing you could do to affect that, yet you popped into his mind and a hoover did indeed follow.
      That in itself answers your question. If you appear in his head he will consider hovering you. The likelihood of hoover is much diminished because you are maintaining NC and staying out of all of the other five spheres. There is nothing you can do about entering the sixth and then it depends on how accessible you are to being hovered (e.g. can he find you, can he contact you by message?) and the quality of fuel on offer.

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      1. Yes, of course I would say that to him, I loved him, I nevr thought there was any man better then him.
        Yes, so then the only way he will contact me in through his own thoughts or recollections of memory triggers of me.
        I wager, it will be music that does that. Also he has a friend with the same name, and spelling as my name…so. But, he is also very proud, why he would nevr beg for me to return to him. i know him well, he won’t try again. He will think about me, but he won’t act on it.
        Thank you for your answers HG.

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  11. My still deeply closteted gay ex-husband of 10 years is a mid-range. I uncovered years of high risk hook ups last fall. I filed for divorce in Feb and we signed a separation agreement June. He sent me a text?! last week asking if it was too late to try and get back together. Wanted me to meet w him and his psychologist to talk about why he “did those things.” And how he is understands how his (phony) child abuse made him lead a very secret and calculated life made possible by gas lighting me. Sure thing. HG – seriously: did having to hide his sexuality from everyone and even himself lead to narcissism? How can he not acknowledge he is gay? Any insights?

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    1. Hello Coco, his sexuality did not cause the narcissism but is rather a manifestation of it. He clearly sees being homosexual as stigmatised and that he is less of a person for being gay, which offends his sense of superiority and brilliance, thus he denies it.

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  12. So far, this sounds like N2. Puppy dog eyes and pity plays. I’m in proximity to him this week. Hoping to make it out without contact from him. Contact won’t come from me. Even though you aren’t with me, you are. Thank you.

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  13. Hi HG I was waiting for the mid range post. As I know he is not a lesser now, although there have been times I’ve thought lesser to mid is more accurate. It will be interesting to see part 3 the greater . Can anyone relate to the following . In a way it was me that did the breakups time and time again and he never put up a fight about it. Just always sent texts saying how sorry he was and he couldn’t understand the way he was and saying relationships terrify him. But he knew I was breaking up with him each time due to his lack of effort and his indifference and of course there was the starting arguments over nothing to sabotage and knowing it would push my buttons I would then have the talk and leave. So I guess although I was the one ending it , he was already in the frame of mind of wanting it ended. If I had ended it when all was good (I use the word good very loosely ) then it would not have suited him. Which I did one time end it abruptly when unbeknown to me it obviously didn’t suit him. So I did receive the text messages saying how much I meant to him bla bla. As this had never happened before , I took him back quite quickly thinking these texts were genuine . His family also confirmed how upset he was about the break up . They don’t know they are flying monkeys or what he is . Other than that, I’ve never had any real chasing or big Hoover gestures .
    Even during break ups if we had not stayed in touch in friendly terms or there had not been some excuse regarding belongings I don’t know if he would have ever chased me back . Even now it’s nearly 4 months and I’ve had one birthday text which I ignored a week ago and there’s been nothing else. No real hoovering , chasing or anything . I know the birthday message was just to either put him self in my head or to test to see if I would take the bait . As normally I would never ignore something like that and he knows it. I would imagine he’s quite annoyed that he put himself in the position to be ignored . Something he would not have done unless he was sure I would answer. He’s also always said he never realised what someone meant to him until he’d really lost them (fuel I know) but with others around fuel can be replaced . But even if there is some truth in the long term ones like I was finally gone and he doesn’t like that , he obviously isn’t even feeling that . Even just from a recycling of primary source fuel point of view or for his ego . Just nothing . I know I should be grateful but it still hurts . I don’t think I’ve ever really discarded him although it appears that way. What he does is creates a wedge each time then I leave . This is the longest ever apart 4 months with only one message that I ignored and nothing more from him

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      1. HG as your good at predicting hoovers and you think he’s a mid range . Since I’ve ignored the birthday message and am very unlikely to enter spheres of influence face to face . It could happen but not on a regular basis it would be by chance . So the spheres would only be me seeing mutual friends that could mention to him , social media if he looks at my FB or popping into his head . With the holiday in Nov /Dec . If I ignored a birthday message in Aug he’s not going to randomly Hoover in Jan . Too much time will have passed . So is your prediction that there’s no more hoovers to come unless we bumped into each other randomly next year after his holiday ?
        If this is your prediction and there will be nothing else I really feel the need to respond to that message and get things off my chest ?
        Someone needs to talk me off the ledge !!!
        But what do I have to lose if I’m never going to hear from him again , just to get it all out there to him , I’m not interested in smearing or exposing him just telling him . The game is up I know .

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      2. So it appears that spheres three and six are the ones you might enter and thus those are the ones which will trigger a potential hoover. Since you cannot control sphere six and sphere three is also difficult to control there is a chance the trigger could happen at any time.
        You have no need to respond to the message and if you do you enter the fifth sphere voluntarily and risk triggering a hoover.
        It is not the case that you are never going to hear from him again. You may well do because of spheres three and six acting as triggers and thereafter dependent on the other factors mentioned in today’s article.
        You don’t need to tell him the game is up, that is your emotion telling you to do that.

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      3. Then just go in balls blazing and do it. So what if he gets one last fuel induced fix? This time it will be on your terms. I did that with mine back in Feb. Could care less what he got out if it. Made me feel tons better. After all the bs we’ve been thru, the last concern I possibly have is making him my emotional punching bag.

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      4. I read somewhere that people who annoyingly correct other people’s grammar are likely sociopaths 😉 I had to, I’m trying to shake off this empathic stigma 😜

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      5. Don’t tempt me. (Does that inch me closer to cerebral midrange, if I had a sulky pout) 😁

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      6. Clarece , seriously I’m considering it. all day today I just have felt that I actually want him dead !! So possibly now I am on my way to being a murderer . I can’t afford to pay for a hit man , but I could just send him the 5000 YouTube videos currently showing Sam Vaknins delightful explainations and hopefully that would be enough for him to go and jump off a cliff somewhere . HG ‘s concern for grammar is hilarious then followed by his acknowledgment of being a pcsycho even more funny . Clarece I don’t really see what I have to lose by just telling him exactly what he is . Yes it’s fuel but he won’t like the wording as he is the victim of everything . Plus as soon as I press send I would press block . As he has to have the last word even if it’s just OK. That must be another narc , nutcase thing ha ha . What happened after you did that with your in Feb did he just disappear ??

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      7. I texted him following a six week silent treatment during which I underwent a double biopsy for breast cancer and had reached out to him not once, but twice to get a continued wall of silence. So with the results thankfully not being cancerous and healed up, I was seething, 24/7, at that lack of any kind of support. Just like HG wrote about in his earlier article today.
        So one weekend night, I texted him to take the temp to see if he’d respond, and he did. I then proceeded to fire off a bullet point list of all the monumentally hurtful things he had done to me in the course of 2 years. Starting each one with F*ck you for this, F*ck you for that… That night he ended with “always a pleasure to hear from you.” The next day at work he went on his own tirade to punish me sending some of the most insulting hurtful texts he could come up with attacking my appearance, my personality, it was no holds barred.
        A month later I got a long texted apology. A month or two after that I got an even longer emailed apology, but his real motive was to discard and make sure I deleted all if his texts to me and pictures he sent to me over time. He wants nothing to do with me but he hates if he thinks I’m not still pining for him.
        Do I regret sending those initial texts? F*ck no. He knows I’m on to him.

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      8. Although the consequence has been that he has repeatedly hoovered thereafter as a result of this outpouring of fuel and to which there has been further engagement and fuel provided which means if there is a trigger for a Hoover, he knows that fuel is available. This also keeps him in the mind and prolongs the emotional battle. The repeated desire for ‘the last word’ an entirely predictable response keeps the engagement going and with it the associated effects.

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      9. Well, something is prolonging me in his mind too, mainly that 6th sphere. I wouldn’t say I have to have the last word. I just have a reservoir of some very choice words whenever he acts up now, specifically to rattle his status pillar.
        C’mon HG, you know me by now… lol

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      10. Ha ha indeed Clarece, hence why I wrote what I wrote. I do like your sentence “I just have a reservoir of some very choice words whenever he acts up now, specifically to rattle his status pillar.”

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      11. Hi Clarece I just don’t know , part of me wants to and part of me thinks that ignoring is worse punishment although unfortunately I don’t think ignoring them bothers them that much . The whole no contact thing is really for the victim it’s not for the narc I don’t think they care . If I thought he would continue to Hoover I would just leave it . But I think that might be it finished , he won’t risk being ignored again Maybe I should just be happy I got one Hoover and was able to ignore . So in one way that is me having the final say instead of him always having to . If I tell him what he is , he will say he always knew I was mad just like all his other exes !!!!! HG even though no contact is for the victim not the narc . Do you think I still achieved something by ignoring him or do you think he now thinks , she’s still upset with me and that makes him happy ?

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      12. ” I don’t think ignoring them bothers them that much ” – oh yes it does, we hate being ignored. Yes over time the fact you continue to ignore us will not impact as much because we will be engaged with new sources of fuel but if we are ignored any time we hoover you it wounds us.

        The fact you ignored him wounded him. He will not be happy about that.

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  14. I find this postings extremely interesting to see the reactions differed per school. Amazing HG.
    and yes the way to identify that they dont mean what they say is the change.. From excuses to blaming. A hallmark I would say”.
    Something else that called my attention here.. Spitting!!!!!! That is pure violence!!!
    I am speechless. Is this just for the effects of the posting?
    I think just the spitting would tell me all about a person 😢

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  15. I dont know about y’all but the last 3 years with my NPD has made me feel as if I were in a SAW movie.

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    1. Wow. I feel so fortunate I only had months with the Narc, it felt like I was with a crazy person or a POS and the fact he could not isolate me and I fought harder than he did, I was no use for fuel. At first, when he discarded me he got plenty of tears, but it was only weeks of pain.

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  16. The two instances when I told my ex middle midranger that I don’t think it is working he would say something like Yes I agree, I hope with the next guy you will happy, all teary eyed. He would then take me out to an expensive restaurant to give me some relationship advice on how i should conduct myself in my next relationship. He would then also ask me to have sex with me for the last time and he would give me the most amazing sex. He would then wish me good luck with my life and would hug me really tight and say he would miss me. This was a preventative hoover right? Using opposite tactics, doing the opposite of begging. He would never ever give anyone the satisfaction of begging, his ego is far to big for that. In both instances he used exactly the same tactics. Needless to say it worked, he would then just go silent and wait for me to come crawling back which I did. Is it common for a midranger to behave like this since you do not describe this behaviour in your article

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  17. The two instances when I told my ex middle midranger that I don’t think it is working he would say something like Yes I agree, I hope with the next guy you will happy, all teary eyed. He would then take me out to an expensive restaurant to give me some relationship advice on how i should conduct myself in my next relationship. He would then also ask me to have sex with me for the last time and he would give me the most amazing sex. He would then wish me good luck with my life and would hug me really tight and say he would miss me. This was a preventative hoover right? Using opposite tactics, doing the opposite of begging. He would never ever give anyone the satisfaction of begging, his ego is far to big for that. In both instances he used exactly the same tactics. Needless to say it worked, he would then just go silent and wait for me to come crawling back which I did. Is it common for a midranger to behave like this since you do not describe this behaviour in your article

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  18. HG … What happens when a nark disengages with there primary source for a month then tries to contact them , and the primary source doesn’t reply ?

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    1. Hello Help 351, this scenario may be because

      1. The N is in a new relationship with a new IPPS but has decided to issue a malign hoover against the former IPPS – if there is no response from the former IPPS this will irritate the narcissist;
      2. The N is in a new relationship with a new IPPS but has very quickly entered devaluation with that IPPS and therefore this is a benign hoover seeking to draw fuel or draw fuel and enter the Formal Relationship again. If so, the narcissist will be irritated by the failure to respond and wounded;
      3. The N dis-engaged and has not secured a new IPPS and therefore has hoovered the old IPPS for fuel or for fuel and to establish the FR again. The failure to respond will irritate and wound the N.
      4. The N dis-engaged, has no new IPPS and is using supplementary sources in the meanwhile and decides to issue a malign hoover for fuel against the former IPPS. The failure to respond will irritate the N.

      In terms of what happens thereafter, this depends on various factors relevant to the Hoover Trigger and Hoover Execution Criteria.

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