Why Does He Keep Hurting Me?

Image result for picture of cyber stalker

 

Hurt and pain are integral in the narcissist dynamic. Whether your narcissist is male or female, an intimate partner, a family member, friend or colleague, there will at some juncture be the appearance of hurt. It is the primary source, usually an intimate partner, who carries the largest burden of this hurt, since it is they who spends the most time with our kind, is entwined in our manipulations and suffers the worst of the devaluation and discard. Whilst the incidence of hurtful behaviour cannot be denied in the devaluation, there may be some comprehension that it occurs because the Formal Relationship between narcissist and victim is continuing. Judged by the victim and a normal person’s standards, that hurt should not occur at all, but once one understands the nature of our behaviour, it is understandable, albeit not accepted, that it occurs during devaluation.
The hurt that is occasioned by the discard is like any that occurs when somebody has found their romantic and intimate relationship terminated. It is safe to say however that when the cessation occurs as a consequence of our discarding, the hurt is amplified by the cruel nature of the discard, the confusion that surrounds it and the contrast with the golden period that once shone so brilliantly. From pedestal to the thorny ground. Often in a matter of weeks.
The hurt is understandable and recognisable when it occurs in the context of the devaluation period and the consequent discard. Yet, what of the aftermath and the hereafter? The hurt invariably continues following the discard. I do not refer to those dark, lonely days as you attempt to piece together what happened. That howling wilderness where nothing makes sense and you are left to pick yourself up and tackle the daily agony of what has happened to you. The gnawing hurt of wanting us back, the bewildering mystery of why somebody who supposedly loved you could do such a thing to you, the stark realisation that we have moved on to someone else without so much as a backwards glance towards you. The misery of unanswered questions, the wretchedness of the emptiness that hangs around your day like a spectre and the shame as the drip, drip, drip of realisation causes you to ascertain you have been conned.
Harsh as those things are, they are the residue of your entanglement with us. The collateral effects of us taking from you. These are all difficult enough to comprehend and deal with, especially in an eroded and worn down state. But why do we return and pile hatred onto the pain, misery onto the woe and malice onto the hurt? Why do we engage in the Malign Follow-Up Hoover?
The Malign Hoover occurs when we revisit you, in many different ways, sometimes in person, sometimes through technology and sometimes through others with the intent of hurting your further. Why do we do this? Have we not made you suffer enough? Have we not had our fill of your begging, pleading, loving, attempts to make us happy? Why can we not just leave you be? You do not even have the less hurtful experience of benign follow-up hoovers where we seek positive fuel and to charm you back into the Formal Relationship. This is pure, unadulterated malice, directed at you time and time again.
Let us start by ascertaining which of our kind utilises this hoover? The answer is, all of our kind. The Lesser. The Mid-Range and the Greater all engage in the application of the Malign FUH. It may not happen with every victim, but it part of each school of narcissist’s arsenal.
When is it used? It occurs when the Formal Relationship has ended, thus when you have been discarded or if you have managed to escape.
How does it occur? As ever, since it is a hoover, it relies on the Hoover Trigger and the Hoover Execution Criteria being fulfilled but there are additional considerations and motivations which you ought to be aware of.
The Greater Narcissist. If you have been discarded, you can expect a Malign FUH reasonably soon post discard, because the energy levels and intrinsic malevolence of the Greater will facilitate this type of hoover more than the Mid-Range or the Lesser. The Greater has an enhanced desire to punish you for failing us (hence why you were devalued and discarded) but those treatments are not deemed enough. You failed. We see this as a criticism of us and therefore it is justifiable to punish you. The Malign FUH is also deployed because the fuel we gain from your negative emotional responses to being hurt, assists us in powering our ongoing seduction of your replacement. Thus, not only are you being punished for your perceived failures, you are being used to ensure that your replacement is embedded and seduced.
The Malign FUH allows us to triangulate you with the new replacement and it allows us to demonstrate to the façade that you are trouble and this is why we have to be harsh with you (we have been left with no choice but to do this – or so the façade is made to believe).
The Greater may switch to a Benign FUH at a later stage (usually when your replacement is being devalued) and some positive hoover fuel is required or even to tee you up to return to the position of primary source. It is the case however that following your discard you will face Malign FUHs and they will arise shortly after the discard has happened so long as the trigger and criteria occur.
Where you have escaped you will face the Initial Grand Hoover first of all in order to suck you back into the Formal Relationship. If this fails you will have a period of respite, many weeks, perhaps months, as we focus on the acquisition of a new primary source and remain away from you as a consequence of your resistance denoting that we are wasting our energy and you are an unattractive fuel prospect. Once our fuel levels have increased again and have done so for a while, then subject to the trigger and criteria the Malign FUHs will occur. As above this is to punish you, but the malice will be greater because you escaped us, the ultimate act of treachery. The new primary source will be in place, therefore there is no need to for the fuel that is generated to seduce this person (although it may be partially used to power the ongoing golden period). More likely, the fuel gathered from these Malign Hoovers is so potent and effective that we use the power generated to keep hammering you with more and more hoovers. This creates a dangerous situation because there will be a combining of a Malicious Obsession and a Fuel Obsession so you are lodged in the sixth sphere thus there are repeated triggers. The fuel has been obtained and thus the criteria is more readily going to be met.
If you have escaped your narcissist and you find that you are being subjected to repeated and sustained malign hoovers of this nature, you have been unfortunate enough to become lodged in the sixth sphere owing to one or probably both of these obsessions.
The Mid-Range and The Lesser Narcissists have far less interest in punishing you. They do occur and if so, they will be shortly after your discard and short and sharp in nature. These narcissists do not have the energy levels to embark on a sustained campaign of Malign Hoovers purely for punishment, they need to utilise the fuel to gain more fuel from their seduction. It can happen, but their concern is to focus on the new primary source and therefore their malign hoovers are designed to power their seduction of your replacement. Accordingly, if you have been discarded, the Mid-Range or Lesser will be focused on your replacement and if they deploy Malign FUHs this will be done to provide them with fuel to secure the seduction and embed this replacement. Once this is achieved, the Malign FUHs will tail off.
If you have escaped, you will also experience an Initial Grand Hoover from these types, but if it fails they will need to focus their efforts on securing a new primary source and gaining that fuel promptly. They will not have the energy or desire to maintain a malicious campaign against you as well. You are more likely to be left alone as they deal with their fuel shortage and then any follow-up hoovers which occur down the line are far more likely to be benign in nature, since the seduction and embedding has already taken place.
Accordingly, Malign FUHs are predominantly, albeit not exclusively, the preserve of the Greater Narcissist.
This is not complete however without some consideration of you, the recipient of these Malign FUHs. Dependent on what category of empathic individual you are, this will also impact on the nature and purpose of the hoovers.
Versus an Empath. This will be done to draw negative fuel and potentially to draw you back in to the Formal Relationship so the pain stops, but Benign FUHs are more likely to be used to achieve this latter aim with the empath.
Versus a Super Empath. This is done to draw fuel only. The Super Empath will not be drawn back into the relationship through Malign FUHs, but they will seek to resist the impact. They may well provide fuel from their responses of frustration, hurt and anger, but we are aware that there is no prospect of returning the Super Empath to the Formal Relationship. That can only be done through the Initial Grand Hoover or Benign FUHs.
Versus a Co-Dependent. Again, the Malign FUH will draw fuel but the Co-Dependent is, of all the empathic types, the one who is most likely to be pulled back in because of a Malign FUH as they see it as the only way to halt the agony that is being caused.
What do Malign FUHs appear like? There are hundreds of different ways they manifest. Here is a selection.
1. Posting your mobile number on a sex website so you receive repeated calls harassing you;
2. Shouting insults at you when we see you;
3. Putting a brick through your window;
4. Slashing the tyres on your car;
5. Following you and glaring at you;
6. Sending funeral wreaths to your home;
7. Sending vicious text messages and e-mails;
8. Having Lieutenants contact you to insult you;
9. Daubing insults in paint on your car or house;
10. Smearing dog mess on your windows;
11. Threatening to contact social services (or indeed contacting them) so you are investigated;
12. Hacking into your computers;
13. Leaving notes and messages containing threats and warnings;
14. Posting comments about you which are unpleasant on social media;
15. Uploading intimate footage of you onto porn sites;
16. Posting intimate pictures of you on the internet and/or to your family and friends;
17. Incurring financial liabilities on your behalf;
18. Setting fire to possessions you have left with us and dumping the charred remains on your drive and/or sending you footage;
19. Threatening to steal/harm your pets;
20. Repeatedly driving by your home or workplace.
21. Reporting you to the police and/or other authorities so you are arrested/investigated;
22. Seeking a restraining order against you on trumped up grounds.
How do you deal with the Malign FUH? Understand whether you are at risk of it happening by considering the points above. Stay out of the spheres of influence, make yourself a F.R.E.E. in the hope that the hoover execution criteria are not met (chief amongst which is reducing all potential contact as far as you can) and thereafter bracing yourself. If they keep happening, avoid giving fuel as best as you can and seek assistance from others to either build a buffer between you and us (thus making the criteria harder to fill for a hoover to take place) or escalate the matter to the relevant authorities on the basis of harassment and/or specific criminal behaviour.
Understand how it happens, why it happens and thus you can prepare yourself.
What has been the nature of the Malign Follow-Up Hoovers that you have experienced?

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145 thoughts on “Why Does He Keep Hurting Me?”

  1. Thank you. This site is excellent. I’ve just been (brutally) discarded, I’m sure it’s Final, and am experiencing a lot, incl anxiety.. This post made me realise tho that it’s impossible to return to the beginning, Golden Age, hence pointless to pine for it, instead to realise the (fucked up!) nature of the narcissist I didn’t (couldn’t of) seen coming. Wiser now tho, and with a *lot to look forward to. All the best

      1. Thank you again, HG. Your service is *commendable.. I wish you the best. I’m doing so well. Jacquie

      2. Also, your pain with your Mother:

        primalttherapy.com (The Primal Center, Los Angeles)

        My best

  2. I have been trying to find answer from your blog to this question: Are female narcissists somehow different than males? I would suppose that they have mastered the victim game and they are less likely to threat you with violence and rely more on verbal abuse?

    1. There are some differences but the whole catalogue of manipulations will be used my either gender by reference to the relevant school of narcissist.

  3. I don’t know if this counts but I remember having a pamphlet left in my office and by my desk at work pertaining to some kind of health problem. All over it were handwritten written juvenile comments inferring that I was a stalker. I tried to share this information with a friend who the accused ME of being the stalker. So odd because he has officially discarded ME but I was not bothered hence the stalking. There are always power plays with the narc about who dumped who.

  4. Do Narcissist know that they hurt people? I cannot figure out if the father of my child is a narcissist or a sociopath. He told me that he didn’t think his behavior was wrong but that he was able to see from my prospective how i could think that his behavior was wrong. He is also aware that something is wrong with him and that he has some type of issue. When we were living together he also wet the bed. Can someone have many narcissistic tendencies but also be a sociopath based off of this information i have given you?

    1. Mid Ranger and Greater do. MR do not regard it as their fault. Greater know what is being done but we do not care.

  5. Could you please help me … I know about narcissism my partner of almost 3 years is textbook . We parted company 4 months ago he left me lying crying on the floor in a heap after telling me he wanted me to have nothing to do with my adult children and that I’d never change . I took him back after 3 affairs that I know of. Lately he has been hoovering me first I ignored then like the loyal understanding idiot I’ve always been answered . He played on how great we could of been , and he’ll always remember the good times . When I answered he then said he wants to be friends , I said no . Many texts later I was then sent a photo of him and he’s new partner . I told him I know what he is said I hated him and never contact me again . He in turn said she was perfect unlike me , someone to be proud off then ended with I can’t stand you leave me alone . I’m gutted … will that be the last of him ??Stupidest thing is I love him so much i almost want to run back , I’ve never had anyone that’s not be abusive so I know nothing else . No one understands . I’ve been abused badly but want him back !!

    1. You desire to have him back is understandable and natural because of the emotional infection he has created within you. It is your emotional thinking which is causing you to approach it this way and you need to develop your cool, hard logic to over come it. read Exorcism and understand the concepts in the Post Discard Battle articles.
      Will it be the last of him? No. The risk of further hoovers will remain strong at this juncture because he is able to text you and therefore the bar on the Hoover Execution Criteria is low. You need to stay out of the Spheres of Influence and raise the bar on the Hoover Execution Criteria. If you want to understand more about how to do this, please do consult with me.

  6. HG can you help me? I have not seen my Narc mother for seven years. She is a pensioner and needs work doing to her house. It sounds simple enough but she cannot find anyone as handymen usually won’t come out for small work, and when they do they do it badly and rip you off which has happened to her already. I feel so sorry for her. So, I know someone who will help, but now that means I am back in her sphere of influence and I feel sick to my stomach. I am having nightmares remembering the pain I won’t ever be free from. I almost wish I hadn’t offered. I have been stupid. She will turn up that Hoover to maximum. Your mother was a Narc wasn’t she HG? Do you still have dealings with her? Can you handle it? and how?

    1. I thought you were going to ask me if I was handy with a drill and a paintbrush then Mrs Linton?!

      Yes she still is a narcissist. I have minimal dealings with her. I can handle it through knowing what she is, doing what needs to be done to ensure she thinks she has control still but in reality I now have it and I am going to use it against her with total and complete destruction.

      1. 😂 😂 that’s how it works?
        Gosh I thought my brother really fell for my mother’s seductions.

        For dealings with the mother n what worked for me was triangulation such as telling her a story of a nasty woman doing what you fear she may do. That everyone then rejected this woman and abandoned her. She may then feel pressure to “win” against this fictional woman by doing the opposite. I also used to use the “mum, I was hoping to ask your expertise on X, Y, Z” and she’s puff up the chest and carry on delightedly. Then thank her as if she sacrificed a limb for you.
        You could also triangulate her by making her errand among a list of more important tasks and so she feels at risk of shrinking in importance and welcomes you in. Or talk about how many other people (friends) are having said maintenance done and how it has just been so bothersome for them all etc etc.

      2. Hello Africanviolet, these are very interesting thoughts, and I think I could have handled her had it not been for the abusive and undermining comments towards my son. Saying that, she would still manage to upset me so much so I could barely function. She was just giving me brief golden periods and hoovers. Trouble is I am now not prepared to be clinically depressed every month so it’s back to NC for me!

      3. These are temporary solutions for a never ending game. I’d say I spent so much time with my mother that my life was very much defined by her. She always had to win even when I won. My tactics are based on manipulating according to narcissist priorities such as facade and power. I went into a lot of denial and allowed her too much credit for my own traits.
        She is at the base of it, bitter and childish and stuck there.
        I supposed I danced on both sides – narc and empath worlds -to get my needs met.

      4. That is funny. The key then is to be in control, and stay no contact. Thank you, and it helps.

      5. Hello Africanvioletsite, I think you are probably asking HG this, but to me, I think it is because they are so empty inside we just pick up on their soullessness. Our own depression will be to do with our own inability to control the situation, but more importantly what depression actually is which is inverted anger towards them.

  7. Hello HG,
    I have bought Fuel and Exorcism which have been fantastic learning for me. Both my parents were narcs and thank you for helping me understand the dynamic in that they could not both satisfy each other. I had previously struggled with the concept that one of them must be codependent as I have never been able to identify which one and now I know why. I have been no contact with my mother since my son was a baby, she still sends cards which I put in the bin and now after reading your work feel more confident in not letting her near.I spent ten years of cold turkey from my ex narc or any other relationship for that matter. I I suspect tho that my new relationship is a mild narc, (just goes to show ten years withdrawal from a love relationship still doesn’t cure you) I like to think I have set boundaries of sorts but remain vulnerable. I no longer believe he will leave his relationship and before anyone judges me, I genuinely do not want to upset his family least of all his young children with the irony being, my own empathy has stopped this particular game. If he leaves it must not be on my account.
    I have felt exploited at times financially (though this has stopped) and sexually, I have asked him not to say he will call and then not follow through, i.e. Just don’t promise as it hurts to then have no call but he continues,I wonder if it is deliberate it is certainly insane making and would appreciate your thoughts.
    I don’t know if other people find that objectivity is still hard to achieve, my fundamental need for approval came from parental neglect, and the urge to right how I have been wronged passes from childhood to adulthood with the narc trawling up old pain that gets transferred then to the new dysfunctional relationship. Narcs are already familiar to us hence we are drawn in. Is the hurt I am feeling to do with my past or him? The other thing is I have only rarely had relationships with people as successful than me It’s as thoughI know at the outset they will try to devalue me and this way the sting is taken out. Any thoughts?

    1. Hello Jenny, I so relate to what you have said here. I only date men who are less successful than me. It is as though subconsciously I am trying to prepare for the devaluation. If they are not as successful as me, there devaluation is not so effective. It’s just damage
      limitation. The first time my Narc ex called me stupid, I asked him where his Master of Science degree was as I already had mine. It sounds like you have read “Women who love too much.” If not, read it, though HG’s stuff is the best I’ve read on Narcs.

  8. Ugh, I’ve been through so many in 15 years of being with him. The worst was when I was pregnant and he revoked the bond he had paid for me. So I was arrested, while in jail I got papers that he filed a temporary restraining order saying I hit him (which I didn’t, but I have) I couldn’t go home, or see my 3 kids for weeks. I was basically homeless and he wouldn’t let me see the kids til the judge ordered him to do so. As I was visiting the kids one day, he was leaving and said ” I still love you.” That’s all it took for me to melt like butter.

    1. Omg. Empathmoma. That’s all so horrible. Im so sorry for all you have been through . I’m exhausted just reading it. You poor thing having to live with it for 15 years. It makes me sad though that your last line that you melt like butter over his very very empty words. He does not mean them the way you take them. He is not capable. He’s a messed up creature that is using you for his own selfish purposes. He might as well have said i hate you. You pathetic being. I enjoy and savor how you cry in anguish at what i do to you.. bc I’m so powerful. ..and you are nothing. As you will always be to me…..except my primary source of fuel…..and for that and that alone…i love you.. It translates the same. Please understand this. I feel for you girl. I have been down the arrested and jailed for something i never did route. (Rather he did it to himself) ..it’s no fun. They are jerks. Please please get out. Read escape….read all of HG books. Let them accidentally help you. He doesn’t care either..but there are residual benefits oddly in it for you in all this.. Read HG book decipher. It’s good in this regard of words. That’s all they are. He does not love you. Put your butter in the freezer!
      Good luck.

  9. Despite the fact that i have potential to soar as i mentioned in my earlier comment, (which i was doing when the narc came into my life 11 years ago) yet…. i am quite numb right now.
    It’s weird, it’s like he wants both from me….for me to be successful so he can profit from me somehow and he wants me an utter failure and he’s doing things against me like he putting me in jail and giving me a record to prevent me from being successful. It doesn’t make sense.

    I accidentally posted this comment in the wrong blog..i meant to post here after my other comment about jail….

  10. My ex (narc) scratched his face, said i did it and i was arrested and spent a night in jail. In front of my 4 lil kids. (Then 8.7.6.4] they all know the truth that i didn’t, they were right there)
    I ended up pleading guilty and down to a lesser charge bc i was scared even though i didn’t do it. I pleaded guilty to something i didn’t do, so i wouldn’t be found guilty of something i didn’t do) He is a master of sabotage. And set ups. This was after months of bogus police calls on me for bogus reasons that went nowhere. He learned each time, got better till he got what he wanted.
    I escaped him. He never saw it coming. He was surprised w the divorce papers. This arrest occurred 8 months after i filed for divorce. We were living in my house together still w the kids during the divorce process. It was so so horrible. Constant hurt and provoking. I literally felt like prey every day, just trying to avoid him but so conditioned by him and devalued that my once strong self confidence was so shot …..i was extremely emotionally fragile. It was a tortuous time. After the jail incident, i moved in to my mom’s house w our 4 kids. He continued to live in my house which i bought and even changed the locks on my house so i Couldn’t get in to my house. I got most of my stuff before he changed locks but he managed to keep some sentimental things that he knew would hurt me and claim after the divorce when the judge made him get out of the house, that he left “those specific items” but he did not. He knew it would hurt me to take them that’s why he did it. But he looks like the good guy bc he said he left them. Nobody can prove it so he wins.
    Since the divorce, and he knows I’m never ever going back to him ever, he is scrambling trying to get fuel from me…..he’s called the cops again but this time it didn’t have the same effect.
    I stay away from him.
    I always have a bodyguard/ witness around me if i might be in close proximity to him. It seems this is good and smart for me to do according to what you wrote.
    He has accused me of trying to hit him w my van in a parking lot when i coincidentally ended up in the same parking lot when he was there w kids on his parenting time and i was there collecting poke balls of all things.
    He is obsessed in a smearing campaign from angles, especially legal… to twist things and so something mean, I’m not sure what exactly yet….
    He is obsessed w trying to get close to me. Through kids drs appts, birthday parties, kids activities…..
    He continuously falsely accuses me on so many levels… And he’s so good….if ub didn’t know me you could easily believe him. A forever victim. I believed him about his 1st wife. Now, i see differently and i understand.
    It is clear he still wants something from me. To punish me, to ruin everything about me and to get money from me, whether direct or indirect.
    Im trying to live by no contact which i could totally do but im obligated bc of divorce decree to communicate in certain things bc of kids. I try to keep everything minimal and live by the less is more and minimize the fuel he gets from me. But he’s so good at twisting things and controlling and it’s difficult to not be fuel for him but i try to keep it minimal but it’s so hard on me as he makes me out to be something I’m not….always accusing, putting me in positions to defend and always a no win situation for me. I have learned to take a breath, ignore what i can and be as indifferent as possible. But it’s so hard. Goes against every grain in me…but i know and have learned for me to exert energy doesn’t change anything. So i limit the fuel he gets from me at least. There’s no way around that bc of kids.
    I just can’t wait for him to move on….bc at present he’s obsessed w me….and i feel him brewing up something grand against me….. which of course makes me afraid. Im not the kind of person to be afraid of anything. But i have learned to be afraid of him. Based on my experiences w him and how he’s able to use the system to make me the bad guy and him the good guy and i face consequences for things i never did.
    But im learning to be smart and not show him my fear but let it instead be smart respect for what he can do to me. Bc i do not and will not be ruled by fear despite the fact i have every reason to be afraid. But that’s not how i live my life.
    None the less….he makes my life so miserable….
    And im not a miserable person. I’m working on the indifferent and live my life successfully part. Bc just when i get so momentum and mojo back in life….he pulls on my heel some way (mostly legally right now) and pulls me back down in the drama so i can’t soar. He knows i can soar….
    Can you help me?

    1. I can and the most effective way I can do so it through the work I have written and continue to write, so do keep reading. You are certainly learning with regard to understanding what he is, what it is that he needs and how you can handle the necessity of interaction, this is evident from what you have written. You should read so you understand everything about him, since you will have to maintain a degree of interaction, but also how you can manage and counter his behaviours.

      1. HG… ty for your words. They encouraged me….but why would you want to help me ?(and others? )
        Is it just to learn to be more effective in your own fuel obtaining? Surely you don’t care.
        What is your motivation?

      2. I don’t care, but it appeals to my sense of humour and sense of omnipotence that I am weaponising empaths to go against my kind (I owe my kind no loyalty). I do this as part of my treatment, the fulfilment of which is required to further other aims of mine.

    2. HG….have you ever sabotaged someone like that by scratching your face or something similar and blaming your victim so they get the consequences for that like jail etc?
      What’s that about?
      Tia.

      1. Yes?!?! You are saying yes, you have have self-inflicted a wound on yourself to make another appear guilty?

      2. I have another question on this now that my shock wore off you did this.
        When you physically harmed yourself in whatever way, what was the motive for that act? Was it because someone was in “escape” mode and you felt you were losing total control so it was a dramatic attempt to lure the person back? Or was this in devalue / discard administering this to create a smear / malign attack?

      3. It was to create a smear and damage their credibility Clarece to prevent them from telling lies. A lie was used to kill a bigger lie.

      4. Because 2 wrongs make a right from your world view?
        Although I’m guessing from the other party’s world view, there was no lying and this made things worse tenfold.

      5. Tut, Tut? Tsk, tsk HG. That answer was completely founded by your teachings. I’ll keep my seat in front of the class, thank you very much.

  11. That is the most dangerous aspect of all. For yourselves and us.
    For us it means taking too much responsibility for monitoring you and shouldering morals ourselves and for you, I’ve seen so many fall on their sword through negligence.

  12. In REAL life of course, you wouldn’t be concerned with being seen to be abusive by your aware crew?
    In my experience of observing, narc enablers will defend under ANY circumstances and find an excuse no matter what. But if the person continues attracting trouble so it affects the image of those around him or her then they are eventually rejected by the other narcissists. Albeit temporarily if they are needed.
    I would dearly like to shut down matrinarc but I don’t think she cares about anyone’s opinion and rarely leaves the house.

    1. Evidently. I thought when you wrote “unknowing enablers here” you meant here as in this forum, but I see you meant as in the content of my reply. Perhaps you would restate the question.

  13. Well to me it seems like those two ideas you present contradict themselves. Could you explain how you wouldn’t want someone who knows you’re an abuser to know you’re an abuser?

    1. If somebody does not know what I am, then I keep it that way.I am not going to tell someone who does not know what I am, what I actually am.
      The people here know what I am, they have to otherwise what would be the point of providing the knowledge? Their knowledge is not a concern to me because I do not deal with them in real life nor will I.

  14. Yes (cough) you are too big for fear of course, but an undesirable abusive image would not impact your narc contributors, would it? Are you only referring to your unknowing enablers here?
    Would it be hurtful should it become public that you’ve abused someone?

    1. I would not want those who hold me in high-regard, that form part of the facade which I utilise to know. That would damage the facade. There are no unknowing enablers here, those who are here know the truth of what I am.

      1. What if some ask you straight up if you are a narcissist, what would you say?

      2. How would you answer if your IPPS or anybody else for that matter ask you: HG I notice something about you…. are you perhaps a narc?

    1. I would not be afraid but rather it would suit my purposes not to be seen as abusive by those who contribute to my facade, my coterie, minions and lieutenants in the main.

  15. I refused to prolong the relationship and speak to him when he wanted to “talk things through.” He tried to threaten me 1) insinuating I might be killed, with 2) legal issues which are non existent, and finally 3) he hacked into my social media. In that order. I greyrocked the first 2 (“oh ok”) and ignored the 3rd altogether. These happened over about a week’s time. Several weeks ago.

    He seems like he has new supply. So I’m hoping the above has or will stop? It freaks me out.

  16. Hi Starr,
    hope you will find a way to cope with depression.
    At some point you realize that you have done so much for someone taht the only next possible step is to stop. Leave them alone. Let them find another source of ‘fuel’ or whatever they want to call it. It’s not like you are giving up (it was my problem, I couldn’t have just stopped doing what would make him happy. If I wasn’t trying hard I felt like not caring enough), it’s that you have to distinguish determination from desperation.
    I love him, but I love myself more. Hope you will realise that YOU are special and will ‘delete’ all bad moments from your past… or learn how to accept them and move forward.

  17. I just don’t understand that ‘our kind’ thing. Are you all the same? If there is sth like pattern then we can predict your behaviour. I know that you don’t care what we (the others) do or think, but doesn’t it bother you when people know what to expect from you and somehow prepare themselves emotionally for the outcome?Or even more important, know how to deal with you and not to give you the ‘fuel’? I don’t think you are happy to get the ‘fuel’ from anybody.

    1. We are all variations on a theme Tats. Thus there are many similarities in what we do, but variances dependent on the cadre and school of narcissist that we are.
      It doesn’t bother me that people will prepare for the outcome because those who I engage with do not know what i am. you are right, I am not content to get the fuel from just anybody but there are plenty of ways for me to gain the fuel from precisely the type of people I want to get it from, even when disseminating my knowledge.

      1. Hi Tats …. usually they are a little off and miss emotional cues in conversations . For example I told my ex about watching my mother die in front of me and he looked at me like I just asked him to perform the hardest math equation known to man . He was blank and said nothing and looked a little confused . They will make odd comments and of course the eyes . You won’t notice how different their eyes are though until usually it’s to late . My ex was very outgoing and bubbly at work and socialized with everyone but when it was him and I spending time together outside of work he was introverted and didn’t talk much . Like he was in his own little world . He would make comments about becoming a dictator and talk about inferiors . The warning signs and red flags will be there but it will be in such a way you overlook it and brush it off. If he seems shady but yet social with a lot of friends and at the same time a little off and promiscuous with a high sex drive then run . I ignored what I knew to be true and I looked for his angel with a microscope finding anything I could that would tell me he was bad he wasn’t a sociopath that he really did feel some kind of love . Now a year later since I found out he cheated I’m having flashbacks and nightmares and I’m suffering from severe depression .

  18. Is it really all about ‘fuel’ and ‘control’ with narcissist? Or can we (empaths) hope for some honesty, answers and happyending at some point (after 30 years of being friends and/ or lovers?)? I’ve tried, during all these years, to start conversation about my feelings, fears (since he hasn’t got any) and my ideas of the future, w/o success. I’ve tried to stop our relationship, but both wanted us back. I was kind, I was sweet, I was angry, disappointed, confronted him with his lies many times… he never showed he cares. When we are in a bed, everything is perfect, from a look in his eyes to his wish to satisfy me. When I tell him what bothers me, next time he tries to correct it. For so many years I wasn’t getting a goodbye kiss and got used to it (stopped asking for one, too) when all of a sudden he gave me one when I was leaving a country. That happened again after few months, in the same occasion. He is also always playing ‘hot’ and ‘cold’, depending if we are together or miles away. I am on the verge of leaving him for good, even though I love him.
    P.S. I’ve read most of your work, it’s just like you are writing about him. Hope it will help people realise they are dating a narcisstist and free themselves from such a destructive behaviour.

    1. Hello Tats, thank you for reading my work. I appreciate you doing so. Yes, everything is about the fuel. There is no happy ending with our kind. You describe the frustrations and unhappiness of somebody empathic as yourself, the archetypal love devotee.

  19. One question from me – have you experienced or seen in other narcissists a complete lost of confidence, where they can suddenly not tolerate being around others, being out socially, or speaking to others, otherwise they are anxious, shaking, sweating, red-faced, awkward etc.
    I have seen this but want to know if it was an act to make me feel sorry for them.

    1. I have not. It is either an act to gain fuel by way of a pity play or a reaction to low fuel levels which again is a device to cause others to provide fuel to alleviate the drop in the level of fuel.

  20. Thank you for your reply HG. I am just guessing what the actual message is. I do not know him. I thought I did.

  21. Thanks for your reply HG and sorry for posting twice, I thought my first post did not go through. Although I do not fear this man, as still, and after all that has happened, I think he has a good heart somewhere deep inside, I feel that the plate should be some kind of intimidation..”I am here..I am watching you” since he knows I won’t go back to him and that I have chosen my family over him. And he has new relationship(s). A person really has to be strong in order to handle these mind games. P.S. I hope I am clear enough, as English is not my mother tongue.

    1. That’s okay, many posts remain in moderation until i can read them or because I need to reflect on them, I read everything and answer all appropriate questions. I understand the point you are making and since you know him and I do not, you may be correct that whilst the message appears to be pleasant, there is a malicious undertone. Either way, it is a hoover and one I can tell you are not responding to.

  22. One year of no contact with the “once-in-a-lifetime-love”, actually grey rock, as we work together, but I have recently found the 3rd plate on the bench in front of my building with engraved “My love”. So, as I know he hates me, despises me, etc., I would guess this is a MFUH. HG, please, what would be the actual message of “My love” text engraved on the plate?

  23. I’ve read all the books, keep up with blog, practicing the exorcism. Just got him out my head & got hoovered. How do you know? Narcs seem to know, how?

    1. Hello Viktory, there was evidently a hoover trigger and most likely you entered the sixth sphere. The hoover execution criteria was met, hence he hoovered you. In what form did the hoover appear?

      1. A mutual friend set up a night out & invited people from a social club we used to belong too(how we met). The club is out of business but friends & small groups still get together. He has been out that loop since acquiring new primary source not even viewing invites.I’ve arranged events for the group. I, with my RSVP incuded an amusing remark. Out of nowhere he remarks on how he can’t make it, where he’ll be & that he with his new source while writing this. Then asks to keep receiving invites, he’ll show up sometime. He’s been seeing some of this for a long time. Why now? When I am forgetting & doing quite well?

      2. Hello Victory, it is straight forward. The invites act as a trigger every time. Previously he has not acted on the trigger because the hoover execution criteria has not been met – he has been getting fuel elsewhere and therefore there was no need to get fuel from you. Now he wishes to triangulate you with this new source, the HEC has been met and this is why he is responding, so he hopes to gain fuel from you through these hoovers.

      3. Thank you for your response. I again am reading & rereading your work. My motto “No fuel for you.” Thank you for creating the forum for me to release any remaining droplets the Hoover may have stirred. Without this I may have never understood what happened, why and become the empowered empath I am today. Your worst nightmare, sorry.

      4. Interesting I described the Hoover in detail, asked why now & it was never posted. I wonder if his ability to Hoover in public view made you jealous?

      5. Thank you HG. I’m a bit hurried because I do believe the Grand Hoover has begun. He found a way into my news feed. I have read your work & I understand the NC idea but I am not willing to give up my life. It is not my fault he is a Narc & I will not spend my life hiding or cowering. I am re-reading several of your books to prepare if a battle ensues. I am forming an army of supporters on all fronts & will not be scared away from my own life. Any tips would be helpful. Thank you again.

      6. By re-reading my work you will have the necessary tools to enable you to maintain your defence. You will also benefit from Defender once published. You are right to create an army of supporters, that is important. If there is anything specific that occurs no doubt you will raise it.

  24. One year of no contact, well except for min contact at work (I guess that’s a grey rock then), but for the third time I’ve found a plate with engraved “My love”, placed on the bench in front of my building. I’ve removed previous two plates. I guess that is a MFUH. And the real message is ???

    1. It is Benign Follow-up Hoover. He hopes to gain Thought Fuel from imagining your emotional response to this and also he hopes it will cause you to contact him and/or allow him to follow this up.

  25. He tried to hack my P.C & several media accounts. Failed in all but one which I didn’t need anyway. But the worst was he publicly attacked my character & my family on a forum I had used for over 10 years, I won’t go into the detail but it was a malicious enough for him to be visited by the police & threatened with arrest if he continued, being the coward he is the visit did the job .

    Most recently a benign hoover in the form of an email, again ignored . They don’t ever give up do they .. !

    1. It’s interesting that #6 would come up. Someone who reads your blog and who is intent on revenge might return the wreath along with pamphlets to a funeral home and a voucher for a lifetime supply of nappies (less the first order shipment). Not my cup of tea…but it could be someone’s.

  26. My take is that he’s simply a fat retard. The malign FUHs provide no fuel, yet he continues. It’s easy to not care about an asshole…If he had an IQ in triple digits he’d Make a direct attempt. I wonder what’s so special about me I continue to be the boogeyman though? Certainly dozens have run from him by now?

  27. Since the breakup 2 weeks ago (No contact, blocked his numbers) I have received harassing calls from collectors claiming to representing the IRS threatening me with legal action. Coincidentally he was getting a lot of these calls right before the breakup.. It’s almost like he forwarded his calls to me or gave them my number. I am fearful every day of more to come and am prepared to take action to defend myself if necessary but preferably to ignore the FUH if at all possible.

  28. As some of you may recall, I was hovered pretty intensely the
    Sat week of August through alternating threatening and pleading phone calls, texts and a few emails. About 50 calls and 30 to 40 texts a day for a week. This was about 2 months after I escaped him (July 4) with minimal contact from him (2messages I didn’t teturn) in those two months. He threatened to break into my home while I was out of town, take my cat, and go to my job if I didn’t call him back. I stood strong, didn’t call, informed police, my job and family. With HGs support, my sister and friends having my back I made it through that scary Hoover. Only when he left a message on me having his gate key did I call him, telling him to leave me alone with little emotion or I’d involve the law and press harassment charges. I was terrified and to this day I look around for him in my parking lot to make sure he’s not there.

    Yes, this stays with us when exes engage in this type of obsessive abusive malign behavior. It triggered past stalking trauma in me for which I’m still nervous being in a dark parking lot alone. It’s been a little over a month and I wonder…will it happen again? I don’t know. Have I covered all my bases to the best of my ability. Yes, thanks to HG and friends. I worry about the 6th sphere. I left purposefully much of what he gave me at his place when I left, not thinking about his 6th sphere….I was exocising him from me…..what do you think HG? Will he be back, from what you know of him that I shared? Given your strong rep on predicting with MLA, I thought I’d ask. Do you need a refresher on his combo of traits? Curious, as I think I wounded his pride hard by both escaping and not returning after this intense Hoover.

    1. After his frenzied attempts he is seeking fuel elsewhere. You are at risk of a Hoover trigger but the way you handled him has made you a less attractive prospect for fuel. I think there will be a period of respite for several weeks and then a tentative Hoover to gauge your reaction.

      1. Thank you. Yeah, I think you are correct, he is shopping around for fuel (a good thing for me). He has a lot of pride and he tends to isolate when his esteem is low. He crashed pretty badly with loosing his job, me and visitations with daughter during his relapse, all within a month. Though, if he builds himself up again, yeah, I can see another test hoover.

  29. I have only ever experienced this once with #1. He posted my phone number in phone boxes, he smeared mud all over the windows of my house and he left horrible notes on the windscreen of my car. But the most insidious was finding empty bottles of booze in my back garden meaning he’d been sitting out there watching me. It was particularly scary as at the time I had a 3 month old baby…his son. I maintained no contact although reported it to the police and after a further three months he’d left the area. Never seen or heard from him since thank goodness.

    1. I think you have learned love to be a competition or balance of powers and that is carried on later because you are trying to alleviate the terror by settling it down through balance of power.

      Dear HG, what would a narcissistic artist feel teaching others? I’m trying to understand my self hatred and insecurity while performing and I know that I was devalued and idealised as a student. But I also feel my art is worthless and pointless. Is this the sense of self and worldview the narcissist if he’s a musician or performer?

      I was put into situations of such terror and confusion that I think I have inherited the worldview completely. But when it comes to me thinking “I’m worthless and this is pointless” I’m not sure if it’s my wound or the narcissist’s point of view of himself.

      1. A narcissist artist would revel in the fuel obtained through the teaching, the fact that his work is reaching others far and wide, is being recognised and lauded.

      2. Thank you.
        I think my insecurity comes seeing the dominance and ego, because of lack of reciprocal respect, and particularly as a female, and the fact I’m feeling so many emotions like joy and he’s not so then it is like this stranded worthless thing I feel, because it should be so different.

        Then I lose confidence and he laughs or smirks and I feel friendship and team disintegrate and can’t continue on.

      3. Well I’m trying to imagine what must be going through his mind as I couldn’t feel two contrasting things as he – pleasure I’m passing on my art and disdain for an inferior – at the same time, and I suppose then jealousy if I improved.

  30. Is it still called a malign hoover when you attempt to pull away from a family member and they cause unnecessary stress, drama, and hurt? Can they also smear you, to prevent your withdrawal?
    May I ask what type of narc your mother is? Celebral, elite? Forgive me if its too personal.

    1. If that stress and drama is designed to provoke you in some manner, yes it is Love.
      The smearing tends to be ahead of your discard or if you escape, follows soon after and is designed to harm you rather than prevent your withdrawal. A Preventative Hoover would be used if that was the aim.
      She is an Elite. But she is not a Greater.

      1. Thank you. It seems with family members, you will never be discarded. They want you forever under their control. There is a chain around your neck, cause you owe them your life. If you have the audacity to want to be free and live your own life, then the defaming, shaming, and guilt occur. Even worse, you are attacked by others for being such a horrible monster to want to abandon your family.
        At least with an IP, you get a break during discard or escape. With family, you are a slave for life.

  31. It has happened exactly as you have described. An initial grand Hoover was first used to get me back into the relationship. I just gave her fuel and reasons to keep coming back. I learned though. I did experience the respite as she got married and then sucked someone else ( pretend daughter ) into her delusional life. After things settled back down for her, the malign FUH’s started.
    Social media
    Letterbox
    Facebook
    I believe she has a plan plotted out just to punish me for my treachery.

    HG, I read the list above of what can be used against us. Do you decide by what we fear or what will hurt us the most? Do you make lists of the order that you will carry them out?
    She knew I would be hurt by seeing the ring mailed back to me and by the mean and vicious comments she posted. She choose her words very carefully. They weren’t casually posted, well planned. I guess it goes with your post “I Want”.
    I believe she wants to be malicious. I am stuck in her sixth sphere. I feel like a sitting duck.. Btw, I’m not looking as you instructed. Thanks for listening. lol

    1. It depends on the school of narcissist. We greaters will consider the most effective based on what we know about you. If you believe you are stuck in her sixth sphere you need to minimise the risk of the criteria being met by showing there is no fuel to be gained, that there are obstacles and you are damn hard to contact.

  32. It’s been over a year …since I’ve discarded her (psychically) …mentally NOT the case. You of all people HG get this. I ignored many of the attempts of her hoovering. Yep …I finally caved! What a surprise. The hoovering attempts were threatening and of course charming as ever. Let me elaborate. The threatening attempts were in the form of emails. Cyber threats to be exact! Both my Attorney and close friend whom works with Homeland Security had moral an ethical dilemma to contend with while not pursuing legal actions. Opting to forgo that direction. Welcome to the mind of an empath. In short …I refer to it as the “walk of shame”. During an evening walk I called her out on ALL (most of) as there were many of her derogatory remarks and asked what she would do if people close to her would be privy to these horrendous and incriminating comments? She said that “I would be sued for slander”. Well …the emails were forwarded to select individuals. Exposed! The greatest fear of a Narcissist. Surprisingly, there have been (mild) attempts of hoovering to NO avail afterwards. Not sure if you RATE (fuel) supplies? I was very close in proximity and during the year long on-again, off_again “illusion” I supplied a daily dose of fuel. I will say this. HG, you have been instrumental in my recovery. At times excruciatingly painful. However, the pain from the memories of one-sidedness have given me a new outlook on life and people. I do not feel shame for loving, or even regret. It’s been a crazy journey and I’ve succumb to the realization …that because of this experience, I will NEVER get over it. But somehow get through it. Thank you!

  33. And what of those 22 FUH’s are you guilty of actually doing in your past? Do you have a favorite Mr. Greater Elite?

      1. My narc ex and I ended when I caught him leaving a woman’s house after a night out his response to catching him he strangled me so hard he snapped the hyoid bone in my neck and I told the police he went on the run for 4 mnth posted rude pics of me online. Damaged my property and continually sent me pics of him with other women along with massive essays of abuse. I was at the time in a vulnerable state having just had his son 4 mnth earlier. He was sentenced to 3years for GBH and the release of a sexual picture without consent. I have a restraining order for 3years but still receive word of his love for me he’s sorry..he’s had help inside confessed he was selfish and wants to change as missing out in his son growing up he’s nearly 2 now has had a massive impact on him.. I find it highly unlikely there has been any real change so my question to you is how to steer a non intimate relationship with a man who has such issues so that my son is least effected by the fall out? Also what in your opinion would time in prison do to a narcissist where all they have is time to reflect on there behaviour and all they have missed?

      2. Hello Thea.
        1. With regard to further interaction with this individual viz a viz your son, see the article Save the Children;
        2. He sounds like a Lesser Narcissist and therefore he has no insight. There will be no change. He will regard his behaviour as necessary and it was all your fault. Also, that which he mas missed will also be regarded as your fault.

      3. This poor excuse of a human being has absolutely nothing to offer your son as a father, especially during these formidable years when they soak everything up like a sponge. Find other positive male role models to have an influence in his life. Never regret that or look back.

  34. Just recently (as in the past two days) had my tires slit. One tire. Day of rest. Second. tired. This after he contacted me via a Lieutenant and got not response, shortly after he had come by my home, left a note and got to response. I can only assume this was taken to be criticism and now I’m experiencing the fury response. Any clue how much longer thing will go on? Not in the mood to buy new tires every day. Hoping things don’t escalate beyond that since he didn’t get a response from the tire slashing either.

      1. A bit of both. He said it was over,and I was waiting for it so I used that time to escape. He reconnected with me (hoovered) saying he was sorry about what he had done/said. I told them there was no recovering. He asked for help with a project,which I conceded to as a final gesture. I haven’t been in no contact since then, 8 months ago. He has tried a number of FUH , one, after 4 months, that was a declaration of how sorry he was and wanted to meet with me (I didn’t answer) then with raging texts one at 2 months after no contact from the note, then 2 months after that (i.e., the latest attempt) he enlisted a Lieutenant for “help” with a situation (sent a message with it to say previous messages weren’t meant to harass me or cause me distress and would I please help with his latest “crisis”). I did not respond to the message (last week). It was after that (less than a week), the tires were slashed.

        Am most interested in your evaluation of this, and any predictions so I can prepare myself, if need be.

        Many thanks.

      2. Hi NM, so he discarded you but since you were anticipating it happening you used the time to put some distance between you rather than hanker for him. You have clearly entered his sphere of influence to cause these hoovers. He has switch to malign FUHs because the benign ones were not getting him anywhere and thus because you have been lodged in the sixth sphere he has switched to the malign hoover. If you fail to respond, thus he gets no fuel, the bar for the Hoover execution Criteria will rise and he will go elsewhere. Has anything further happened since this message?

      1. Hello Narc Magnet, what is the current position? Any further tyre slashing or alternative malign FUHs. It would suggest that you have become caught in the sixth sphere through a malicious obsessions and this will continue until he either focuses on somebody else for fuel or you raise the Hoover Execution Criteria bar so it becomes too difficult for the criteria to met, that may involve you disappearing for while and/or involving law enforcement.

      2. I’ve had all four tires slashed all at once. Before that I’ve had a couple flat tires in a row. And before that my neighbors car parked right next to mine in the street was smashed with bricks into pieces, on my birthday.
        That was a gift for my birthday from his narc wife, his primary source.

  35. My ex sociopath and I have pictures and videos of us doing what adults do on his phone and he blackmailed me with them and told me I had a certain amount of time to come back to him or he was going to show it to the guy I was seeing after him and I reminded him that if he did that then we would both lose our jobs since he is technically an employer .

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