Dirty Little Secret


Sometimes it is not all Relationship Bulletins, declarations to the world about you and me or announcements across the fabric of social media about our perfect love. Sometimes you are the dirty little secret.

This is never the title afforded to the primary source that we have chosen. It is those who are  secondary sources who find themselves labelled in this way.

Do you have a friend who makes demands of your time, often calls you and ensures that you give up your time so he or she is able to tell you all about what they have been doing, obtain your advice and uses you as a sounding board? Does this person tell you all about the brilliant weekend or she has just had with a group of other friends at some weekend away or at a concert but somehow no invitation came your way? Do you perhaps politely and subtly ask whether you can attend some forthcoming event which this friend is enthusiastically telling you about, maybe even gloating about how brilliant it will be, but this friend shows all of the perception of a plank of wood and never picks up on your hints? Even if they do or perhaps if you are more forceful as you ask whether you can attend or you point out how you never get invited along, are you met with comments such as:-

“Yes, I know you would have loved to have come but I didn’t organise it, John did and it is his fault he didn’t ask you.”

“I didn’t think it was your kind of thing.”

“There was only a few places available but I will make sure you can come to the next one.”(Of course this never transpires)

“I thought you hated rock music. I am sure you told me that you did.”

“I have been so busy I must have forgotten to ask you.”

“I did ask you and you said no.Dont you remember?”

(Of course this is a lie.)

These people are our inner circle. The select few who are our guardians of our reputations, loyal lieutenants and brainwashed and indoctrinated to fawn over us, carry out our demands and provide us with fuel and you are not in the inner circle.

In fact, the inner circle does not ever know about you. When we spend time with you, we string you along with future-faking, we allow you to bask in our greatness and at first it feels good to have such an interesting, charismatic and seemingly attentive friend. You may attract the label of friend and you sit in the outer circle but you are a dirty secret secondary source. We do not want our inner circle to know about you because whilst you serve an excellent purpose in providing us with fuel, your enthusiasm when we tell you with a moment’s notice that we are coming to visit is just the tip of the fuel berg. We know you are loyal, dependable and faithful. We know you will provide us with the fuel that we need and you above everybody else will be the go to person when fuel stocks are running low. Whether it is 3am call or an appearance on a wet and windy Monday evening in winter, you always welcome us in, always take the call and you always oblige. We do make you feel special, trotting out the easy to mouth platitudes about how much we like being with you, how we enjoy your company, how it is good to know that we can depend on you but this is just to keep you sweet and functioning. The reality is we do not want other people knowing about you because you do not fit with our idea of how our life looks. You might not be as good looking as we would prefer, you might not shine in a group, or you are apt to saying unusual things which we feel would make us look less impressive in front of our all important facade. No, you are kept in the background, used but rarely abused because you are the long-serving indentured servant of the narcissist. The loyal hound that sits in the corner of the kitchen, always ready to wag your tail for us but too old and unappealing to be paraded at the show. This is the role of a dirty secret secondary source.

There is also the Dirty Secret Intimate Partner  Secondary Source (“DSIPSS”). You were seduced and made into a secondary source and within the blind of an eye you were bedded and the platitudes of love and dedication came pouring forth in order to secure your loyalty. There are those who are earmarked for promotion to primary source, they are destined for better things so long as they come up to proof with regard to the provision of fuel, character traits and residual benefits. Those who are on the fast-track to being installed as the primary source can expect to meet our children, meet our families and our friends, be paraded and attend certain events with us, all at the humiliating cost to the currently devalued primary source who is on their way out, all being well with the seduction of this Intimate Partner Secondary Source. The future is rosy for this person.

The DSIPSS , at the outset, is never considered for promotion. Words may be whispered to that effect but they are just false promises, more future faking and the crumbs of comfort which are scattered to stop you foraging elsewhere. When we allocate you the role of dirty secret next to nobody knows about you.

Whereas the IPSS who is in waiting for the top role may find themselves being picked up and put down, with intervals of silence in between the weekend hook-ups, as we test that person to gauge their suitability for promotion, it is a different story for the dirty secret.

The dirty secret actually may well see quite a lot of us. in the backs of cars, in seedy motel rooms, in the back of the warehouse, the disabled toilet, the alley behind the house and such like. You are never to be seen by our family, our friends or even our colleagues. You remain hidden because your presence will offend our facade. We are the dedicated family man and thus we cannot be seen hanging out the back of you down some leafy lane at dusk. We are the champion of morals in our local community and it would not be the done thing for us to be know to be engaging in the debauchery that we insist on when we are with you. The primary source may well be devalued but we do not want them to be sullied by the knowledge of the filthy whore that have twice a week. You are a pit stop for a delicious injection of fuel. That snatched two drinks in an out of town bar where you had to sit and wait for two hours before we showed up? You are a dirty secret. Never allowed to call or message us before we have contacted you first? You are a dirty secret. Never allowed to meet our friends? You are a dirty secret. We wish to portray an image and you do not fit with that image but you are a potent bundle of fuel, dedicated and desperate, always hanging on for that stolen hour in bed together, the occasional afternoon when we pretend to work to have a meeting in the next state or county. You live for those moments because in that instant we make you feel wonderful, we focus on you, we give you the best sex, the excitement and the promises, oh the promises of what could be yours.

The future faking with an IPSS is born out of being torn between not wanting to lose a good source of fuel and the potential this IPSS has to perhaps become a primary source at some juncture. We do not want to lose that, thus we keep the IPSS hanging on as I described in the article ‘What Am I To Him?’ It is a different set-up for the DSIPSS. You were not initially selected for potential promotion. You were selected because you are a dependable, reliable turbo-boost of fuel and when we demand it, you always provide it. Why would we ever let that go? We would not.

Like the friend who is the dirty little secret above, you are the same but with you comes the intimacy. you are the recipient of our oft-spewed sugary charms and in receipt of our desire to use you for sex and the provision of fuel. We rarely take you anywhere, for fear of detection and our engagements are covert, hurried and secretive, yet this adds to our charm, our mystery and you find it as addictive as we do. It is only when we are going and you wonder what we are doing and who with, that you are left to rue the emptiness and the loneliness. You want to provide us with what you think we need, to allow your goodness to shine for us, but we will never let you do so, not outside of those hotel walls where we meet every Thursday evening.

Unfortunately for you, you do not fit in with the image we wish to convey to the world. You do not fit with what we wish to show. If we ever saw you, by chance, when we are out with our facade, be that family, friends or colleagues, we would ignore you and pretend we did not know you. Of course, later that day we would lay on the charm to excuse our behaviour because we do not want to let you go either. You are a brilliant stick on emergency fuel patch. You provide fuel and you remain hanging on, waiting for the day that you hopefully emerge blinking into the light of the golden period for the primary source.

That is never going to happen directly and at the outset of your allocation to this role.  Not that we will admit it to you.

Stay in that dark corner and wait for our call.

You are a dirty little secret.

134 thoughts on “Dirty Little Secret

  1. DMW says:

    We are both married, I am a friend of his wife’s. My kids are best friends with his kids ( my kids have stayed the night at his house and his have stayed the night at mine). We have had each other’s families over for dinner and attended many social functions together where I met many of his friends. What the heck am I to him? I am guessing just a DSIPss? The seduction is heavy and we meet secretly about twice a week for the past year. I have attempted No Contact a few times but he freaks out every time and will call and message relentlesly with so many pity plays and declarations of love and not being able to live without me. Uggg please help me sort this HG, I would be so thankful!

    1. DMW says:

      **He is also in constant contact with me on an hourly basis. He gets very jealous and worried if we don’t talk for more than a couple of hours.

  2. Flora says:

    An interesting read. I’ve been intimately involved with a narcissist for about 8 months. I suspect he is treating me as a Dirty Little Secret to some extent. That’s weird — I’m attractive, successful in my career and he’s proudly introduced me to people he’s trying to impress in his business life. However, he is keeping me a secret from his family. He is from a Muslim background and he and his family seem to be racist. I’m non-Muslim and not from his ethnic background and this seems to be why he’s keeping me a Dirty Little Secret from his family and from his Muslim friends. Having read a number of articles on your site, I decided to get rid of him and have dumped him.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Then you are seizing the power Flora.

  3. Scared says:

    Hi H.G

    I really need your advice on this one please kind Sir

    I was a DSSPS. Started intimate. Then refused to see him for final year. Text all day everyday. He recently began a relationship. Told him no more talking. I threatened to expose him. I was threatened of my own exposure by proxy. I apologised profusely, begged forgiveness. He Blocked me everywhere. He’s never blocked me before. He is Upper Mid/Greater. Will he smear me? What should I expect?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      To advise properly Scared I recommend you organise a consultation.

  4. jazman2k says:

    My ex got engaged quickly after our breakup and because of me, she came back for a while.

    She used me to triangulate with her new supply and then she got mad at me when i told i had feelings towards her. Why?

    She was overly nice to me. We had rough breakup and she even cheated on me. But now she has been super nice to me (feels like golden period, starting of relationship but without sex). We held hands, hugged for hours, talked, laughed, she compimented everything about me and belittled her man at me. How her new man is not as good looking as i am, sex is worse etc. It was like she was in love with me again, but she wasn’t. But it felt exactly the way when i first met her.

    I got confused. I fell in love again. After telling her that, she got angry. And after i told her what she is doing is wrong (emotionally cheating her man) she discarded me, again.

    Why? She must’ve known that hugging me for hours and complimenting everything about me must cause feelings in me. After all we used to date.

    Why do narcisst discard when other gets too much emotions? To cause anxiety in us?

    I was not her DLS. I was something else.

  5. Juho says:

    My ex-gf is engaged to a new man (very fast moving, 5 months, living together and already engaged) But my ex started hoovering me back, she came to my place, hugging me, complimenting me, spending time with me.

    It was like golden period all again. I fell in love with my ex, again. And after i told that to her that i have feelings and i told it’s not right kind of behaviour from her (kissing me while she is engaged, holding my hands, telling how wonderful i smell, telling how amazing i am etc.) she discarded me. At least she is not responding my messages anymore.

    She used me to triangulate with her new man as she told about me to him, but why did she discard me after i told i have feelings / that she is doing wrong?

    So was not a Dirtly little secret? Was i?

    I know that she told about how crazy, abusive etc. to her new supply. But i actually stood up against her. I am kind fellow, but even i have my limits…i did say bad things to her.

    But it’s funny. It’s funny how narcissist can even make good behaviour feel bad. I mean, she cheated on me, she belittled me A LOT when we were together and eventually she dumped me because i got angry at her because she cheated “You have anger management problems!”

    And now after breakup she has been SO NICE to me. I mean SO NICE. She even tells me how the sex with her current man is horrible and they have no emotional connection etc…

    Great writings HG. Awesome.

  6. Curious_Kitty says:

    We are both married, so I was his DSIPSS. In this case why was I continuously tested?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      To see if you might be promoted to something else.

  7. Claudia says:

    I have been told that I say unusual things…

  8. LOISLANE says:

    Hi, I’m not sure what my role was with the NS. We met through work 7 years ago, I’m an on screen journo, independent, attractive etc… We were both single – he hit on me pretty quickly – I wanted to take it slow. We then morphed into a flirty friendship (had no idea he had started a relationship with someone else soon after). To cut a long story short, when I discovered he was in a relationship I cooled our ‘friendship’. True to form he accelerated into hot pursuit and we became lovers. Shortly after this shift his girlfriend was diagnosed with cancer and we entered a grey area – where I struggled to move on and he kept me hanging. About a year ago , he told me they were about to move in together and marry. I was upset and quite emotional and withdrew for a few weeks. When I finally got in touch, he slammed the phone down. A few months later I emailed a friendly message, suggesting we put it behind us and become friends again (we have known each other a long time), he told me never to contact him again. Discard? Even though our association was rooted in friendship? I also never thought of myself as a dirty secret – he was always proud to be seen with me, very supportive of my career and we had common friends. He is very successful, intelligent and has all the material trappings, so was also confused about his choice of wife – with all due respect, quite frumpy, no independent career and seems a motherly sort. Any thoughts HG?

  9. An absolutely ingenious post, Mr Tudor! I am living as the dirty little secret of an attractive somatic narcissist since Summer 2014. I am a literary scientist and an educated married woman, but abused sexually and emotionally by him.
    I am blogging about my experiences since August 2016. (In Germany language and literary style). (http://loverslost.de) Never could I have explained my own situation as brilliant as you do.
    Have profited very much from reading your absolutely clarifying posts for some weeks. Thank you so very much!
    Ursula Rhys-Corell

  10. Lacy says:

    Thanks, would you mind explaining why? just trying to wrap my head around the dynamics/

    1. HG Tudor says:

      It is because the primary source provided the bets fuel by nature of being the one we drew fuel from the most, the one we know most about, the one who was more prone to react in an emotional manner more often and in a deeper way. In order to draw that hoover fuel from them we may face resistance thus once it is provided then it is all the more potent because it underlines our power, even if there is no resistance (i.e. the victim greets us with open arms when we hoover them – the relief and gushing nature of their response as the golden period is given back to them causes the fuel to have an increased potency.

      1. Lacy says:

        Fuel is everything then, not looks, not status, not great character. The best for your kind are the ones who emotionally overreact to your machinations the most? It’s so ironic that what you enjoy most is used against us when you tell us we are bipolar or crazy, yet we are just reacting to your manipulations. Apparently, the secondary sources including the DSIPPS, just don’t have the fuel it takes to move into the Primary spot(not that is something to covet). After being discarded, this feels like salt in the wound…like not being good enough to be promoted. I cannot stand the way I sound as I am typing this. Maybe the Secondary’s are too challenging and push back or they just aren’t emotional enough. Not sure what they seem to lack in your eyes. It’s just a reminder of how used I was and how foolish and naive I was to believe the lies. Maybe I was running away from what was happening in my own life and I was easy pickings.

        Sorry to be thick headed and thank you for patiently answering all my questions. Just when I think I understand it, you post about a new topic and it all gets fuzzy again. I thought I was getting better but I seem to be having a bit of a set back.

      2. Lacy says:

        Only to be smashed again….I keep reminding myself!

      3. 1jaded1 says:

        As much as I’d like to reject that answer, HG, it is the truth. Boo.

  11. Lacy says:

    Sorry forgot about the tertiary. You seem to like former intimate partner’s hoover fuel best. Does it matter what type of former intimate partner that they were? Or will it be the same. Example, devalued/discarded DSIPPS, hoover attempt ignored. How would you value it? We are both married and he is getting a divorce. Thanks for helping me out of this mess.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Hoovering a former intimate partner primary source trumps the others.

      1. Lacy says:

        Thanks- could you explain why?

      2. Leilani says:

        Two thumbs up HG!

  12. Lacy says:

    HG, thanks again for all of your insight! I wish I would have found you long ago! What status do you think would be given to a married source who said she would never leave her husband? I would assume he could never consider her as a IP source, and probably not a ISS. I can only assume it would be a DSIPSS. How do Narcs view their married intimate sources in this context.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Hi Lacy. The narcissist will regard the married source as fair game owing to the sense of entitlement and lack of boundary recognition. However, if the source will nto leave their spouse then this means, that whilst the narc may see them as someone who might be good enough to be a primary source, it will not happen owing to the reluctance of the source to leave their spouse. They may well be an intimate partner secondary source because the narc may not care that people know about the affair. This person will be a DSIPSS if the narc has reasons to allocate them this role.

      1. Lacy says:

        Thanks HG. Is it viewed as a criticism of the narc if the spouse won’t leave her Husband?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Yes if that is what the narcissist wants.

      2. Lacy says:

        It seems like the DSIPPS is the lowest rank of all. How does their fuel rank? An affair would have to be a dirty little secret for both if they are married.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Hi Lacy, they are not the lowest rank, the tertiary source is. The DSIPPS is a secondary source but one which is dipped into with reasonable frequency for a delicious burst of positive fuel, edged with a hint of badness because they are the dirty little secret. It is probably the best secondary source fuel that can be obtained.

  13. seduced says:

    Hmmm looks like I’ve never been Dirty little secret … Shame… I’d preffer that than Primary IP 😭

    1. Indy says:

      I think both are painful for different reasons. The primary gets all stages and full fledged abuse while the secondary gives little respect to obligations, time, commitment to relationship, and is frequently back Burnered and never a priority. It’s a lot of disrespect. If you don’t mind not being a priority and getting canceled on a lot….not me.

      1. HG Tudor says:

        A good summary there Indy.

        1. Indy says:

          Thank you, you taught me well.

      2. Seduced says:

        well as an IP you will get cancelled so many times during devaluation and discard that You will feel the pain much more.. Indeed being any kind of IP is painful…

        1. Indy says:

          I agree with you seduced. The primary gets the worse of the abuse. Both primary and secondary are disrespected. Secondary is no walk in the park though…

  14. L.119 says:

    Love the stories narcangel

  15. 1jaded1 says:

    Said in the most neutral tone. This is disgusting. The disabled toilet? Never.Gonna.Happen. Was never a dirty secret…and now I know what to look for. Seriously…BOO. Don’t get disease from the stall, or do.

  16. Bianca says:

    Hello Mr. Tudor

    my Ex and I separated for 7 months, as I told you before.
    After I met him at a Party over 5 weeks ago,
    he calls me every day. I could not resist seeing him again. A few weeks ago he offered me a friendship, but now he says to me, if I could change my behaviour, if I do not provoke his anger and rage attacks-as I did in the past-he can well imagine that the relationship starts again. He remarks that this takes time to figure out and our family and friends should know nothing about us. I feel like a (D)SIPSS. He has no IPPS. I’m absolutely sure! Whats going round in his head? What does he really want from me? Could you please tell me?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Hello Bianca, he wants to keep you as a DSIPSS and his comments are to control you and the fake promise of a future is being used to keep you in place. The fact he wishes to keep you secret suggests that he has a primary source which he is devaluing and he does not want you damaging the facade he has created. He wants fuel from you.

      1. Bianca says:

        Thank you for your reply.
        What if he has really no IPPS? Would it be untypically for your kind?
        I cant believe that there is an IPPS.
        He calls me everyday. He likes to spend so much time with me, even on weekends.
        He takes me spontaneously to his home etc
        He sends me a Message today. He writes: „Darling, I hope you understand, if you could only change a few things, it will all get better!” „I want us to be happy again!”
        Maybe he’s looking for an IPPS and keeps me in place for some time?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Hi Bianca, it would be very unusual to have no IPPS. One might have a non-intimate primary source, namely a family member.
          Why can you not believe that he has a primary source? Keep in mind he is likely to have one and she is being devalued, that is why he spends so much time with you as he is seducing you as he devalues her.
          It might be the case that his primary source has escaped him and therefore he is seducing you in order to become his new primary source alongwith others and therefore all this fuel from Intimate partner secondary sources is keeping him going until he promotes one of you.
          Either way, I do not think you are the sole recipient of his attentions.

  17. NarcAngel says:

    Well now, it seems my dirty little secret is gaining in popularity. I am one and prefer it that way. I am married and so are they. I dont want them full-time (shudder), I enjoy the better parts of them in short spurts over a lengthier golden period, and when I feel the devaluation will begin (or I get bored of them), I start one of my own. Getting in my comments in a straight forward fashion about their appearance or performance (no emotion), terribly sorry that I cannot make or missed that date ( using their own tactic), and then I will fall off the radar here and there for few days but send pics of oh say, them naked with identifiable background in their home, a shot of their car with license plate in view, their personal effects and clothes in the hotel bathroom, and the text will read: remember this? What a great memory! It has always caused them to return and when they do and they get comfortable that they have secured me and things have returned to normal ( for now, until they plan to punish me), I have sent text saying simply: Who’s hooked now Bitch?? I do not worry about Facebook and the like because in addition to me being about the only regular person on the planet who does not use it, I choose men whos profession does not allow it. Works for me- but then I recognize what they are and am not under the delusion that it can result in “love”. I know there will be people shaking their heads and it seems mean but lets remember who the “victims” are here. I have this cruel streak and addiction to toying with them which is why I thought I may be a Narc myself, but through reading and gathering information here and in HGs books, I think it more likely I am some sort of morph Super Empath with other ahem….less virtuous traits. Whatever I am, I am amused by their notion that they always know what we are thinking and doing, and I’m taking up some of the time that they could have spent with their lasers locked on you. You’re welcome lol.

    1. The Punisher says:

      I love you NarcAngel.

    2. Love says:

      Lol you go girl! It must be a heady feeling to dangle someone’s reputation and livelihood between your fingers. How do you ensure your safety is maintained? This article reminds me of the movie, Match Point.

      1. NarcAngel says:

        So far the fear of exposure has been enough to ensure my safety and yes I know Im playing with fire there but thats of course part of the attraction. I think they see Im just crazy enough to make things very ugly so they just go off to another source, but that same crazy gives them the potent fuel they need and theyre greedy. There have been a few times when i saw a potential for danger. Once when walking ahead of the Narc out of the hotel room he was speaking quietly about how hot and yet how cool I was. I smiled and turned to him to see him trembling with eyes ready to flood over. Many empaths would read that as love or desire-proof of his adoration. I read it as likely frustration and hatred and thought he could just as likely snap my neck. I swung the door open ,stepped out ,turned to him to tell him what a great man he was and then while he waa soaking that up, someone came along in the hall and I was sure to speak to them so they would remember us there. Closed the door so it was now locked and yelled to the person to please hold the elevator. I remember thinking after that, that I was in danger at that time. I mean he was/is a high ranking police official so he knows what to do with a body lol. In any case its not a game to be taken lightly or for the faint hearted.

      2. NarcAngel says:

        Match Point. Im not familiar and will look into that. Thanks Love.

      3. Sarah Hope says:

        Love, all I can offer is a different perspective, but people, such as myself, unlike your point of view, would never think of doing anything like this to someone else even provoked because it is not who we are. If one is paranoid about something that is because that is what one does – when one does not do such things they are not paranoid and they are F.R.E.E.OR I just got sucked into another hoover, but it was worth mentioning in this case 😉

      4. Love says:

        Hi Sarah. I neither condone or condemn this way of life. I merely observe. After all, being Mr. Tudor’s IP keeps me quite busy 😉

      5. NarcAngel says:

        Haha-It doesnt always dangle between my fingers Love………. but lets keep this clean shall we?

      6. Love says:

        Wow NarcAngel. You do play with fire. But if you can handle it, then all the more power to you, lady. It seems like you’re very street smart and your eyes are open. Maybe you should look into writing. I’m sure you have many interesting stories to tell. Sex, danger, and power. 🔥

    3. NarcAngel,
      So you are married and you have affairs and you are predatory toward men. What do you believe made you this way? I’m not hating on you, I seriously would like to know if you are willing to share that. Thanks.

      1. NarcAngel says:

        Not at all FTW. I had (what I now have a name for due to Sir Tudor), a lesser malignant Stepfather from age 5. I am oldest of 4-2 of which are his natural children. My Mother completely controlled by him and had other issues that pretty much guaranteed she was checked out most of the time. So no guidance or affection-just control. I stepped into the Mother role for the others and despised them both for our miserable existence. He was a man to be feared but I would not let him see that to the best of my ability. I shielded both my Mother and the others because I realized early I had some power over him that they did not. I see now that it was probably the fear of exposure but I didnt really know what it was at the time. He always accused me of thinking I was “so damn smart” and then tell me I was nothing, we were all nothing without him. i begged my Mother to leave constantly and couldnt understand why she would subject us to this. She said he woukd kill us and I told her I woukd rather die trying to get away. I was in grade school. I reasoned that if I loved my Mother and she thought HE loved her then the only difference was sex. Sex must be very powerful to have that hold over someone. So as I got older I paid very close attention to men. Saw that I could use sex as a weapon to punish them. Swore never to let a man control me. I have been with a very decent kind man for years but I have this need to search out and punish very bad men and men who think they are “so damned smart”. Im rambling now and as with everyone else there is so much more. But to answer your question in a nutshell: Bad men need to be punished and I enjoy it.

        1. Claire says:

          This is interesting NA! I’m reading back on old posts! Any changes in the last few years?

          1. NarcAngel says:

            Hi Claire
            Yes. I have changed my view about many things over the time I have been here. I just mentioned a bit on the poll about traits being used against you.

      2. Love says:

        Thank you for sharing NarcAngel. I’m curious as to how one punishes a narc. They seem to convert everything into fuel. The only type of punishment I can think of is exploitation, which would be greatly dangerous and put your life at risk.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          1. Provide no Fuel.
          2. Deliver criticism which will wound.
          3. Read Revenge.

      3. The Punisher says:

        Good advice, HG. I’ve done all those things and they sure worked well. I periodically enter the sphere because I want to see how many times I can criticize him before he stops unblocking me. I think it has worked 5 times so far.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Interesting TP and thank you.

  18. Indy says:

    So many dirty little secrets. And yet, confession is good for the soul they say…we all have an itch, somewhere to share those secrets. Those secrets fill confessionals and therapists offices daily. Do you have that itch, HG? Even if it is with a bunch of strangers?


    1. HG Tudor says:

      It is the second greatest urge to confess.

      1. Indy says:

        Do you feel that urge and do you get a release here?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          I don’t feel an urge to confess as confess suggests wrongdoing, I rather have the urge to share and to broadcast and this is my place to do so.

  19. Joss says:

    Dear HG Tudor,

    May I ask what are your most favorite subjects when engaging in a lively debate?

  20. Snow White says:

    I’m confused HG. I was never kept a secret from her colleagues, boss, girlfriend, or family. She enjoyed telling others about me and seemed almost proud of it. I know provoking her mother and family gave her fuel. They did not condone her lifestyle. She liked the shock value of telling them about me. I have read about the ping pong narcissist and I thought she fell into that as we were both placed in different roles and switched at times but her girlfriend always knew about everything that went on between us.
    What was going on in her head?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You were a primary source, then switched to an ipss, then back to primary as part of the vascillation associated with ping pong. No need for permanent ipss or dirty secret ipss in your case.

      1. Snow White says:

        Thanks for the clarification.

  21. Darkness Falls Again says:

    Never a dirty secret always a primary, hmm this would suit me just fine, please come on over drink up all the fuel I have including what is in reserve and go on about your business. Recoup repeat yup do you have room for another?

  22. Insatiable Learner says:

    Haha! Very good, HG! Indeed, reading your writing does have that effect! Listening to your voice is even a greater turn-on! Who needs a foreplay. Where do I sign that contract for the DSIPSS? I first wanted to apply for your primary source position but it looks like the DSIPSS lasts longer. 🙂

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Consider it signed.

  23. Insatiable Learner says:

    Thanks so much, HG! Fascinating! I don’t know why but your response that the Hoover is likely got me aroused. What’s wrong with me?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Nothing. Anybody who reads what i write feels that way!
      It will be the conditioned response to the prospect of engaging with something that you are addicted to. Akin to a drug addict knowing that his gram of cocaine is on its way with his dealer.

      1. Snow White says:

        Are you visualizing all your readers aroused by your comments HG? Lol 😂

        1. HG Tudor says:

          I’d rather they told me SW, it’s better as Proximate Fuel, than Though Fuel

          1. Snow White says:

            How can we not be with your combination of confidence, charm, brilliance, and wit.
            And then when you expose us to your voice that’s like the cherry on top.

      2. Leilani says:


  24. Sail Away says:

    So I think I was an Intimate Secondary Source. I’m not sure of your exact title. He is married so she didnt know but he paraded me on social media and to several friends so I wasn’t super “dirty little secret.”

    When it became clear he was an N I tried to back out and pleaded for us to be friends with benefits. No mind games, no emotional connection. Sex.

    I thought this a perfect solution. Yet he would have none of it. Why?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Because he saw you as a potential primary source, because he calls the shots and you do not, because you trying to make a decision offended his sense of control and superiority.

  25. Insatiable Learner says:

    Wow! This is quite eye-opening. We were both married, so I think I was his DSIPSS. However, we saw each other very infrequently. We lived a couple of hours away. But we did communicate often and regularly. I imagine I was a very good source of fuel. He now discarded his wife and installed a new primary source. I did voice my desire to be “seen” before I learned about the new primary source and he future faked. He knows I know about the new primary source as I asked him about her. We have stayed in sporadic contact since then. Last time we spoke was a few weeks back. Very amicably and, of course, I was all complimentary and doting as usual. He has been quiet and I have not reached out. Do you think he will be back in touch?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Yes if there is a Hoover Trigger. Your Hoover Execution Criteria will be easily met because he knows how to reach you, you have not rejected him and he considers you a very good and reliable source of fuel. He is not bothering at present of course because he has his primary source and he is infatuated there. Once she is devalued and you opt into a sphere of influence, expect the hoover to resume your role as a DSIPSS.

    2. Forever Learning says:

      Insatiable Learner,

      You asked a question similar to what I came here to ask. I honestly can’t figure out if I was a DSIPSS or IPSS. He never hid me, but I guess I never did take him up on the few offers he made for me to meet him when he was out with friends. I met all his roommates, and some random friends. I made it clear a few times that I had feelings for him, and for a while, things seemed to be going in the promotion direction. Then, just as things seemed to progress between us, he gave me a silent treatment followed by a few weeks of reconcile, and I got some gaslighting as well. All the silent treatments and gaslighting ended during that reconcile. Then, I did not hear from him for a few weeks after the reconcile. When I sent a text, he said he’d basically found a primary and the primary didn’t want him seeing anyone else. I was never rude or even accusatory, but I was very confused, because I still felt like I was climbing up from IPSS to IPPS, then he just went kind of crazy when it was going well between us (or so it looked to me).

      1. Forever Learning says:

        I guess I should also add that he’s ended it with me before and asked me to come back a few months later, but I don’t think that first time had anything to do with a primary source being found. He also didn’t devalue/discard me that time.

  26. The Punisher says:

    Yep. Nothing more nothing less 😼

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Just sign this piece of paper and come this way…….

      1. Love says:

        Lol very smart Mr. Tudor. Is she signing your ironclad nondisclosure form?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          That was implicitly done on reading the first word of anything that I have written. If you scrutinised any of my works you will see that each letter is made up of microdots which state
          “By reading this I absolutely and irrevocably agree to submit to the will of HG Tudor, provide him with total fuel, behave myself, buy his books, tell the world how brilliant he is, never call football “soccer”, second guess him in terms of what I should and should not say/disclose/disseminate, engage in lively debate, advance my own understanding of the narcissistic dynamic from the master himself, laugh at his jokes and to brush my teeth twice a day.”

      2. Love says:

        Dear lord, call football soccer?? What are we, barnyard animals?? Lol.
        Yes, your subliminal message is quite effective. I am addicted to you, your forum, and books. As much as I try, I’m unable to refrain from reading your blog daily.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Why refrain, it is a font of knowledge and understanding

      3. The Punisher says:


      4. Love says:

        You are a fountain of knowledge. But I also have a very addictive personality. It is dangerous for me, given your omnipotence. I would become completely attached and unable to disconnect.

      5. The Punisher says:

        Wait a sec.. is it even possible for me to be the dirty secret? Why has no one done this to me before? Is this a trick? Did I just sign my life away?!

  27. The Punisher says:

    I was not a dirty secret, yay! Guess I’m not your average Empath huh, H.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Have a “I Wasn’t a Dirty Secret” sticker TP.

      1. The Punisher says:

        lol I’ll keep it forever.. or until I feel like being someone’s dirty secret…

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Ha ha good answer.

          1. The Punisher says:

            Thanks HG and thanks for this post. Being a dirty secret actually sounds pretty ideal to me so its good to know that’s an option. How do I get to be just that and bypass all this primary secondary shit?

          2. HG Tudor says:

            You just want to be a dirty little secret?

      2. NarcAngel says:

        I want a sticker!!! Ummm….not sure what mine would say……..or where it would be placed……..

        I HEARD THAT HG!!!!!!

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Not guilty. You know me, never at fault. What sticker would you like? Oh, I need to peel this one from off your mouth first I guess!

          1. NarcAngel says:

            Sticking my tongue out at you.

          2. HG Tudor says:

            Just let me get my stapler NA….

      3. Love says:

        Lolol Mr. Tudor, you are hilarious!

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Glad you noticed.

  28. Insatiable Learner says:

    Thank you, HG! Great additional insight and clarification! So what is the dynamic between the DSIPSS and the narcissist? Is she ever devalued and discarded or only put down to be picked up again later?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You are welcome IL. This is where the DSIPSS actually “does better” than the IPSS-in-waiting. The DSIPSS will get to see the narcissist with greater frequency because all the narc wants this person for is a hit of fuel. There is not need to test him or her, establish if him or her will make a good primary source (thus necessitating spending longer with them). Thus an hour for drinks after work one day, a lunch hook-up later in the week, a stolen evening also and so on. The frequency keeps the narc satisfied re fuel and the DSIPSS hanging on. There is not the over-familiarity with the fuel as there comes with the primary source, thus the fuel from the DSIPSS remains potent and a golden period can last a long time. Of course, if the DSIPSS revolts against their role, wanting to be “seen”, meet family and friends etc, the narcissist will future fake to retain control, but if there is a greater risk of control being lost then like an ordinary secondary source, the DSIPSS will just be discarded and another replacement found (easy enough to do). The narc may discard a non-intimate friend secondary source who is disloyal/non-fuelling/challenging and replace them, rather than waste time and energy on a discard and the same applies for the DSIPSS. Of course, if a smear is needed to force the individual to back down this will be done with additional devaluation (such as if they tried to blackmail the narc). It is these dynamics which bring about a different set of circumstances and which “traditional” commentators on NPD fail to pick up on as they think every narcissistic dynamic is one of seduction-devaluation-discard. It is not.

      1. What if DSIPSS doesn’t want anything but the hook up? You would get fuel, they would get you and all is right with the world. Or do you have to devalue? Or do you have to make them think there is a chance for something more? Are they less desirable if they are agreeable and don’t want more?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          No, that works. So long as we believe they will always be available when we make the demand for a fuel stop and that they will do that and they are not going to pester us for more, because we are not testing them to see how they will bind further to us, such a scenario would work. The only need to make them think there might be something more is to ensure they are always around for us when we want to gather some fuel on short notice and in a short burst. If the DSIPSS makes it very clear (and keep in mind we are untrusting and wary) we get what we want each time and proves that for some time, we feel less of a need to future fake. We will probably still do it to some degree 9even if the DSIPSS says we don’t need to) just to keep our own paranoia in check.

          1. Thank you. My hunt begins………………….

      2. noah80 says:

        Hello H.G.
        You describe many different situations that can occur in relationships with narcissists. Did you live for yourself any of these or other narcissists that you met have told you about their experiences?

        I recognize myself in the definition of DSIPSS … I was anyway the second one…perhaps the thirth or forth (although he told me manytimes that there was only me as lover) …
        But I become dangerous (for his facade of Mr. Wonderful-devoted husband) when he walked away from me because I got closer to some his friends … so he told me to be careful about his friends for some reason (for exemple. who shoplifted or was an alcool addicted or a maniac, etc) but was all lies 😂😂😂 just to keep me away from them.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Hello Noah80, yes there are several narcissists in my family, I have worked with others and have met many through my social and business interactions.

      3. noah80 says:

        I think that the paranoid thinking and behavior occurs because you know that you are capable of anything for the fuel (so there may be other people willing to do anything to get what they want) and also you know you’ve made go crazy who were beside you (and now they could revenge against you). I have many thoughts of revenge but I keep them at bay. The revenge falls without mercy on those who carry it, and I’ve already suffered enough.

  29. Kesha says:

    I sit here in awe after reading this. You have made references recently to Tuesday’s and Thursdays and those were always bad days for us when I was his primary of course he always said it was “all in my head” but I knew.

  30. Love says:

    There are plenty of women like this now a days. They are called ‘jump offs’. But they should not be underestimated. Sure some may truly be smitten and enamoured by your charm and sexual prowess, yet the majority have aspirations. They only engage with men who have power, status, and money. Most of these women wouldn’t be sitting in a dark corner waiting for Hobo Bill. A lot are scheming. Men can be messy, but these women are calculating. They have plenty of records of sexting, pics, and secret sex tapes stored away, waiting for the right moment to extort/blackmail. The superpower DSIPSS hit the mother load by having a lovechild. They ensure their future is solid and lay back and let the money roll in.
    Mr. Tudor, have these women truly been delicate little flowers in your experience?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Valid points Love. Keep in mind that the targeting of such an individual would be done to reduce the risk of picking an individual who would respond in this manner, albeit one cannot completely exclude the risk. Thus, the prospect of picking somebody who would behave in such a manner would be reduced. With regard to the accumulation of evidence, remember it is a narcissist who is coupled with the DSIPSS – we are content to deny evidence, lie to protect ourselves, project and blame and use all necessary tactics and manipulations to maintain superiority. A DSIPSS who stepped out of line would be smeared.
      Yes they may have the love child but I daresay plenty of victims of our kind can testify to the battle they have had/continue to have to obtain financial support and may even give up, just to be pleased to be away from the narcissist. After all, we have no sense of accountability.
      Thus I am pleased you made the point as it is a consideration but the likelihood of it proving effective against our kind is reduced for the reasons of targeting, smearing, denial and general manipulative behaviour to maintain the upper hand.
      No, they have not been delicate little flowers but rather are often those exhibiting damaged traits which means they are drawn to the power, status and money which you accurately describe, along with the feigned concern and love, the future faking et al and allow themselves to be strung along for a long time indeed because there is no devaluation but rather the promise of jam tomorrow so in typical salami-slicing style there is never a moment that causes them to press the button, but instead, they think “I will give it a bit longer, just in case he comes good, I don’t want to lose what I have/the promise of what I will get”.

      1. Love says:

        Very true Mr. Tudor. Thank you. Perhaps child support works differently in the UK, but in the US, as long as you have a legitimate tax paying job, the government will garnish your paychecks for child support. Paternity tests are required by law, and once they’ve been verified, then the woman will get money. The dollar amount though can vary, because of the battle in court.
        The male in this scenario will even be denied a passport if he has outstanding child support. (A flight risk, I suppose). To this day, I have yet to hear of any of these women giving up. Times are tough 😉

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Absolutely Love , we have similar however I have seen instances whereby
          1. The narcissist moves assets elsewhere and gives up the job thus there is no income to attach the child support to;
          2. The narcissist organises for a trusted lieutenant to employ him on a very low wage for the purposes of calculating child support and covert means are used to pay the true rate to the narcissist, through other people, using cash etc
          3. The narcissist out of spite gives up work and sponges off somebody else (parents, a new primary source)
          Thus whilst the law can and is used to secure the owed child support, the narcissist in conjunction with the sense of entitlement and the lack of accountability will wriggle and scheme to evade paying what is owed.
          I know of one lady whose narcissist ex-husband claims unemployment benefit (he had his own company but that was effectively wound down and the assets vanished as a consequence of some sleight of hand, lieutenants and creative accounting) everytime she tries to go after him for money. He then posts on Facebook his new £ 50 000 car, so she tries to pursue him again and the car is in the name of a lieutenant (of course he lets the narcissist use it freely, but for the purposes of court it belongs to the lieutenant, he produces the documents, and the narc just states he was allowed to drive it on one day. The application fails. I know she gave up in the end preferring to avoid giving him the pleasure of crowing and instead concentrating on earning the money for her and the two children. I daresay for every one that keeps going, one gives up. Of course there is no empirical evidence either way and we rely on anecdotal observations as we have here.

      2. Love says:

        Oh lol! Gotta love these crafty narcs. There are plenty of narcs I know, some in the family, that have and would do exactly the same if not worse.

      3. Claire says:

        Exhibiting damaged traits? What does that mean?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Please see Sitting Target.

          1. Claire says:

            I have it but haven’t read it. I keep meaning to..

          2. MommyPino says:

            Claire, you will love Sitting Target. It was the first HG book that I have read and it is so helpful and easy to understand. It gave me clarity as to why the handyman targeted me.

    2. Snow White says:

      Hi Love!!
      Lol… Jump off’s made me laugh. I have never heard of that. Where did you learn that from?
      Love your posts❤️❤️❤️

      1. Love says:

        Thank you Snow! I have friends in all walks of life, from the high powered business owners, to conservative academics, down to the ghetto fabulous, and anything in between. Also, I have almost 2 decades of experience mingling with people in the nightlife setting. Its amazing what you learn by simply watching and observing. I think young women are getting more conning these days thanks to social media. They want the lavish lifestyle they see on reality shows. However, they don’t want to earn it themselves. So they need to do whatever it takes to catch themselves a successful man. They know they’re a secret, a jump on then jump off kind of chic. Yet they will continue on, all for a slice of the pie. As Mr. Tudor stated, they will never be promoted to primary source. In my opinion, their fuel is not potent enough to even be upgraded in the SS world. So they have to do what it takes to get ahead in life. Watch the news and see how many politicians, celebrities, professional athletes are taken down by these women. I think they’re much smarter than they’re given credit for.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          I’d suggest that some of these women, if they are that conniving and they succeed, are more likely to be of our kind than anything else.

        2. Snow White says:

          If you are still on the west coast and celebrating, Happy Thanksgiving Love!!!!
          I loved your explanation. When I was on vacation in the Caribbean there were several young, beautiful women with much older men and my daughter was telling me how these young women look for these men online and hook up with them just for the travel and extravagant lifestyle. She said it had become very popular with the college girls.
          I enjoy learning about all lifestyles.

      2. Love says:

        You are right as always Mr. Tudor. Your team can take credit for the successful jump offs. 😉

      3. Love says:

        Happy Thanksgiving to you too Snow! Yes, there are even websites for these girls to find rich men to travel with. I don’t know the success rate though. It’s harder nabbing them online. Ashley Madison is a dating site for married people wanting to have affairs. It was under fire a year ago because hackers stole the users’ actual names, addresses, and other personal information. They made good on their threat and posted all that personal info online.

  31. Linda says:

    My ex narc had a ‘ dirty little secret ‘ for 12 years .shame it was also my so called best friend. I’ll never get over the betrayal.

  32. Insatiable Learner says:

    Another great read, HG. Here’s what does not make sense. Say if a narc who is married is in the process of devaluing his wife and seeing another woman on the side. This other woman is the intimate partner secondary source. She may end up being promoted to the primary source once the wife is discarded. However, while the wife is still in place, the IPSS is a dirty little secret because she cannot be introduced to family and friends and taken places. So it seems inaccurate to say that the dirty little secret IPSS will never be promoted to the primary source. What do you think, HG?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I understand your point IL and thank you for making it.
      In your scenario, the IPSS may not be a secret. Certain elements of the facade (maybe all of the facade) will know because the devalued spouse may well have been smeared and portrayed as cold, unloving and abusive and the IPSS is the well-deserved sanctuary for poor put-upon Mr Narcissist.
      Alternatively, the IPSS is used to triangulate with the devalued primary source and is thus not a secret.
      But let’s say the narc wants to keep the IPSS quiet, on the side and ready to be the primary source once discard takes place and also wants to maintain a facade so the IPSS is not unveiled until discard. In that scenario the IPSS is a secret but is not a dirty one because ultimately they will become the primary source. They are “clean” in the sense that they are being prepared for the primary source role and will be paraded and unveiled at some appoint.
      The DSIPSS is someone who is never revealed for the reasons advanced in the article and because they will never be the primary source. This is what makes them dirty (not fit for the top role) and a little secret (kept out of the way)

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