I Want


What does the Greater Narcissist want?

I Want

322 thoughts on “I Want

  1. Elena says:

    Sometimes (often) I get really angry when I read this blog.
    I like that feeling. A lot.
    These posts bring out my most rebellious, independent vein.

    It’s my “¡NO PASARÁN!”-“¡A LAS BARRICADAS!” moment.

  2. Twilight Dreams says:

    Love because of the type of empath I am I discovered a greater gives me what I need to control a side that can become interesting to say the least and the only one more then happy to take it on. The others are well, they just are.
    Now I am not advising anyone to take this on, it is a personal choice because they are the real deal, not that the others are not, but because They are aware and this makes a world of difference.

    1. Love says:

      Twilight, thank you! There is that side to me too. I do need to explore it more to fully understand it… Yet I think I need to do this exploration when I am free of all responsibilities. I don’t know if I will be able to come back from it… Or maybe I won’t want to come back once I comprehend it.

      1. Twilight Dreams says:

        Love Be careful, I carry all the traits of an empath. I don’t say this to say I am stronger cause I am not. It’s hell and chaos at times. I don’t just step into their shoes and empathize, I am on the roller coaster with them.
        Those that carry one trait are the strong ones.
        There is a reason why HG hasn’t ever met one with all the traits, like the greater can see an empath we can see one of them.
        Everything is in balance you can’t have dark with out light.

      2. Love says:

        Wise words Twilight. Thank you.

        1. Twilight Dreams says:

          You guys are making me miss what I did for many many years, and Love this is what he did to get back at me for my transgressions lol he forced me to go into a career that doesn’t suit me, I changed it to a positive and Found a way to still take care of people

      3. Love says:

        Good for you Twilight! It is very difficult to take care of anyone when in the corporate world. Too much politics at play at all times.

        1. Twilight Dreams says:

          Lol I hate politics, yet Love you are right it is difficult. Finding balance, I don’t belong here, I never wanted the responsibility I have now.

      4. Love says:

        I understand. I want to relinquish all my responsibilities and be free.

        1. Twilight Dreams says:

          Yet what is your definition of free? As children we should have no responsibility and are “free” yet still under the parents or gaurdians rules.
          Do you think this is or could be a contributing factor to why someone would want another to rule over them due to a lack of or to many rules as a child?

      5. Love says:

        Hm, free yet under someone’s complete control. Now that sounds lovely.

        1. Twilight Dreams says:

          In many ways it does sound lovely

  3. KT says:

    I hope this question is not too offensive. Please remove it if it is. Here goes…..
    Why does my narc insist on me swallowing when I go down on him. Its like a huge insult if I dont want to.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Power and if he knows that you do not like to swallow, the fact he makes you allows the exertion of power and he gains fuel from your discomfort, attempts at resistance, complaints etc.

  4. Indy says:

    I will talk directly, as I do not care for triangles and side ways references. Yes, there is free will, and I am not gonna be that person that says “Yay” when you openly seek another narcicist or “yay” to go hunting for another one. That is not humor you are using there, be honest Love. If that is all play, then I’m sorry and I totally missed it. That’s on me. If not play, I stand by my view, I’m not asking or wanting you to censor your expressions here. As I stated earlier, I would never wish for more ounto leave. I would hold back commenting before I’d let that happen. It’s not my blog, nor would I want that. I meant what I said about you injecting a lot of joy and bright sun here. Truth. I enjoy that, seriously. Shoot, we have joked here together. And I’m honest with you and everyone here. You can disagree and that’s cool.

    Yes, you totally hVe the right to seek another one. And, that is what is meant by “downplaying”. The expressing a real desire to find another one. That is what BE is talking about. That is what I agreed with.

    I will not say, YAY Love, go get one! Why? Because, just like I would never cheer as a friend who jumps into flames, nor will I cheer for your endangering yourself openly. It’s just how I am. Just like you are who you are. I think we can coexist on this blog with our different views.

    1. Love says:

      Indy you know I love and greatly respect you. I appreciate you caring about me and I love your clinical expertise. I have no issue with you telling me ‘Hell No that is crazy, don’t do it’. Please do express your honest opinion. I thought it best to hold my comments because what I gathered from your statement and B_E is that somehow I’m being insensitive to others’ pain and trauma. Maybe it was interpreted that I’m touting my own horn about how much stronger and better I am than the rest because I think I can come away from a narc unscratched. Perhaps it was thought that I have no respect for what others have suffered.
      That is not the case at all. There is a dark part of me that needs destruction/chaos. Not for others but for myself.
      However I have not addressed that dark side yet. My work is very data intensive and I also teach. So at the present time I need all the few brain cells I have remaining. Maybe one day, I will finally fulfill the dark part of me.

      1. ava101 says:

        Thanks for saying this.

      2. Indy says:

        Hi Love,
        Thank you for explaining your view point. I think I had misunderstood your stance and I apologize. I did think it was a downplay of the narcissist abuse and I am mistaken. And, I am glad you chose to stay. I would hate to be one to chase anyone away. I can come across as a bit stern at times when I believe in something strongly. I will continue to be honest, trust me 😉 And, you continue being you 🙂 That is the lesson in life, no? Coexisting and learning from one another.

        What do you teach and what work do you do with data?

      3. Love says:

        Thank you Indy ❤
        I do statistical analysis of big data and I teach on the same topic.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          What’s big data?

          1. NarcAngel says:


            Big Data:
            What is you in the bedroom for a thousand Alex.

        2. Indy says:

          Cool! Is there a particular focus of your research (I.e. healthcare, financial, university research, consulting, etc)?

      4. Love says:

        Very large data sets that need to be analyzed to reveal trends and patterns.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Thank you.

          1. NarcAngel says:

            Has analyzing very large data sets to reveal trends and patterns just made it’s way to your lengthy list of accomplishments?

          2. HG Tudor says:

            No but in a similar vein I am excellent at seeing patterns. Once you see patterns you can make sense of virtually anything. Why people think, why people move in certain ways in crowds, why people choose certain items over others, it is a useful skill and its applicability has allowed me to achieve much.

      5. Love says:

        LMAO NarcAngel 😂

        Indy, you know where us codepedents and empaths call our stomping ground: healthcare 😉

        1. Indy says:

          LOL, indeed love. My stomping ground as well, I work in a hospital and private practice…though some are in sheep’s clothing LOL. **coughs insurance execs coughs**

      6. Love says:

        Yes Indy. I worked on the dark side for a bit (I am not proud). I was an acturial analyst for a health plan. Ugh… I still feel dirty. Lol the things we do when we are young and dumb 😉

        1. Indy says:

          Its not dumb, at all. It is just hard for anyone with empathic traits to do that work. And, someone has to do it. I love having insurance, as I cannot afford to go rouge. It is where the boundaries cross between adequate coverage for proper care that gets me going.

      7. Love says:

        They lured me in with a high paid internship right after finishing my undergrad. I realized I had to sell my soul to the devil if I stayed.
        Best buckle up now. We will see where this reform will take us.

        1. Indy says:

          Indeed. Very uncertain times for the healthcare industry. And uncertain times for scientific research. I work in a teaching hospital that is heavy research focused. Keeping my ties to the private sectors. Good luck up there! You are university based, right?

        2. NarcAngel says:

          Sold your soul to the devil made me laugh given our presence here,

      8. Love says:

        Yes Indy. We both have to buckle up for this ride!

        Lol NarcAngel! I wish! I tried to give my soul to Mr. Tudor for free but he won’t take it. 5 rules and all 😉

  5. Indy says:

    Reading through this exchange and wondering am I being referred to as a bully? It is hard to tell when people do not direct comments directly. So, I will be direct as that is my style. Things get clarified better when it is direct.

    Are you referencing to me as a bully in this interaction? Certainly was not my intent. I was elaborating my support for a comment that BE made as it resonated with me in that moment. I was voicing my opinion.

    As I said in my post above directed to you, I did not wish for you to go either and never did. I felt the need to voice my view that I happen to support BEs comment. I was not intending to hurt or censor you.

    Because of the general vibe I’m picking up and given that it’s had to tell n the t, I needed clarification and thus I am asking for that.

    No malice was intended on my end and I’m sorry as I sense there were hurt feelings. I do not apologize for my view, though I do for the effects.

    1. NarcAngel says:


      Not at all. As I indicated in the post to B E, an observation and comment took on a life of its own when it attracted a small group of others, all with different perspective. My comment was also not limited to those exchanges but others previously that had commented on LOVE. Not that she needed my help but a small empathic part of me pictured her alone on one side feeling like she had done something wrong in expressing herself (indeed she stated she would cease commenting) so I stood with her in that moment. Its a natural response from my childhood when I perceive an imbalance of power. I have been misunderstood as have we all. B.E said it best in that bullying is different than an opinion but when the original message gets lost and the group expands it can sometimes feel like that. Again it was not limited to that specific exchange. We all bring differing perspectives and opinions but we dont have to adopt them-just hear them out. I have no ill feelings towards anyone here and look forward to further interaction with all.

      1. Indy says:

        It is hard to tell in this text world who is saying what to whom and with what intent, so I tend to be very direct. Indeed, there is a very big difference between bullying and stating an opinion. Thank you for your clarification, as I would want to know directly if I was being perceived in such light and correct myself if needed or communicate in a better manner. Like I said to Love, I can come across as stern when I am passionate.

        1. NarcAngel says:

          You are lovely just the way you are and need change nothing. Goes for all involved.
          Now if the world is back on it’s axis……HG: can you say arsehole for me please? Call me one if you like. I could use a laugh.

          1. Indy says:

            NA, I appreciate that. Just wanted to be sure I was not being aggressive or I would change my approach. All swears in an English accent sound far more dignified….as all of England laughs at us silly North Americans.

          2. NarcAngel says:


            Its the contrast of that beautiful mouth and seductive voice saying that completely juvenile word that gets me every time. And so they should laugh. We’ve reduced the beautiful art of language into slang and abbreviation (guilty here), eh?

          3. Indy says:

            Oh the Canadians have nothing on the US Southerners for bashing dialect, y’all 😉 Or how about those Bostonians (I used to live there too)…Cwoffee sounds wahndahful!…lol

      2. Love says:

        That was very sweet of you NarcAngel and I appreciate it ❤

    2. Indy, i strongly believe NA was referring to me as the bully, because the interaction about the ‘blood bath’ was between Bloody and I, and NA intervenes “Ahhh…. Theres nothing like taking in a boiling blood bath of irony…..” above. Yet she claims she has stopped interacting with me. She also stated above: “It must sit in the craw then of those who live for validation of their intellect to have been ensnared and fooled, thus causing their anger and need to assert their (self) perceived elevated position.” Since the exchange was between Bloody and I, and she cannot be referring to Bloody who is a narc and does the ensnaring, i am convinced it is me she refers to. I don’t know why she claims that she’s not interacting with me when she clearly is. I don’t know what she has against me. She has made incorrect, hurtful assumptions about me from the very beginning. She claims that she started out ‘caring’ but she attacked with inaccuracies from the very first interaction in other threads. I like it here, but she hurts me so much that i too, just wish to leave. She is hurting me more than my ex-narc ever did.

    3. You are a genuine, polite, and levelheaded person. I can never imagine you being a bully. Some pple step in with inaccuracies and judgement under the pretense of concern. That is not you. A few claim to be empaths, but are very offensive and combative. Being here, i have realized that some passive narcs like my ex, are kinder than some pple here. I will have to re-evaluate my entire thinking about narcs because my ex never hurt me as much as some pple on this blog.

      1. HG Tudor says:

        Hello PANA, that may appear to be the case but I also do think that you are very much still under the spell of your narcissist. I state this as an objective observer who has seen similar with other people. I have dealt with thousands of different people, all of whom are at different stages of their relationship with our kind and you are still moving through the dynamic with yours, but the fact is you are moving.

        1. Thank you HG. But in all honesty, my ex did not judge, assume, argue, or put me down ever. He didn’t hurt me like that. He hurt me by re-scheduling our meetings though.

      2. ava101 says:

        ptsd: I agree. I have my very own opinion on that, too.

      3. Love says:

        PTSD, I can tell you are a very sensitive soul. Don’t take things to heart on this blog. I know its easier said than done. This is a great place to learn and state your feelings. It is the only place I can be truly honest. I can’t say most of the things I say here in real life. Know that we about you. ❤

      4. Love says:

        *we care about you PTSD

        1. Thanks for caring Love.

  6. NarcAngel says:

    It has been requested of me by PTSD that I not interact her and I have complied but could someone please explain to her that in the post where I asked someone to hold up my skirt to take a pic if my naughty bits that it was actually sarcastic humor regarding a comment that had been made previous about people wanting to show HG their parts and that I had no intention of doing so. He got it-I cant gelp that she did not understand the humor. It keeps surfacing and now has progressed to her painting pictures for people that are unfounded and that she could not possibly know about my body ( which is slamming btw). I get it-she has said she is black or white in another post. Either loves or hates you. She hates me and Im ok with that. But stop with the ongoing vitriole. Shes just making herself look completely unbalanced. Amazing that what started out as my concern for her own well being over that of the person abusing her has come to this especially since she continues to receive some hard advice from others regarding this same subject. I actually feel for her but its getting harder to try to understand.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Point has been made NarcAngel. I have slowed both parties to voice their views and I understood where you were coming from with the remark. I am drawing a line under the exchange now. Thank you.

      1. NarcAngel says:

        Thank you.

      2. Love says:

        NarcAngel and PTSD, I’ve had great interactions with both of you and hope you both continue sharing. You encouraged me to come back to the playground ❤
        I will be on the swings, hanging upside down staring at the clouds, day dreaming.

        1. Twilight Dreams says:

          Love I am glad you are not going anywhere, be true to yourself. What others think really is not your problem. Besides the world needs more people that care and the fact you know what you want says a lot even if it goes against what most think.
          It’s always the unbeaten path that holds the most adventures, besides following the crowd gets borrrrring

        2. NarcAngel says:

          Thank you.
          I have no plans to leave the playground or stop sharing. I’m the one in the leather jacket with vape pen “sharing” the slide with others for a dollar a turn, but that includes catching you at the bottom so you don’t get hurt. When you get dizzy from hanging upside down come on over-I’ve been known to give discounts.


        3. Hi Love,
          I do not remember reading that you were contemplating leaving. Did i miss it? Whatever the case, i knew you were upset, and i wanted you to know that I enjoy your humour. We both know narc abuse is not to be taken lightly for those who have suffered considerably.
          I’ve noticed you’re being more reserved with your humour these days. As long as we are thoughtful of others, please go ahead and use humour!
          Different people will have differing opinions. That is the beautiful variety of the world in which we live. But there is a polite way to say something. If one engages with attacks and condemnation, then one can expect the same in return. Some people continue with judgement from article to article, not letting go, and needing to project and put others down in order to feel superior. They claim to be concerned, but an angry attack from the beginning hardly conveys concern.
          I am glad you’re not leaving Love! 💗

        4. Love, pls be careful. You pointed out that your ex terry hoovered you on this blog. In fact, some people who claim to be empaths, who follow others on this blog, often interject the conversation with judgemental, and sarcastic comments, but just like narcs, claim that they had been doing nothing of the sort, and utilize blame shifting and will claim that you have been doing so. Pls be careful.

      3. BraveHeart says:

        Thank you, HG!

      4. Love says:

        Thank you Twilight ❤❤❤

        1. Twilght Dreams says:

          Love in all seriousness why would you seek a greater?
          I have been with one, I have no doubt what he is. My reasons for seeking another one has and always will be different then most empaths.

      5. Love says:

        Lol oh boy, I love a good discount! A buck to go down the slide is already a bargain!

      6. Love says:

        Thank you PTSD ❤ I wasn’t going to stop reading Mr. Tudor’s blog but thought it best to stop commenting for fear that someone would be offended or further triggered of their abuse by my words. Thank you all for getting me back on the playground. I don’t know who Terry Stand is. I thought it was funny that they typed out letters so I joked that they were one of my ex narcs because Mr. Tudor asked them if they were accidently hoovering.
        Twilight, I am very interested to know your reasons for wanting a greater. My reasons are not simple. Perhaps I don’t exactly know why. The thought of a man being that intelligent and devious to mentally f**k me silly is exhilarating.
        Also, I want proof (I want to see up close) that they truly are that ‘Great’. I have sensed weakness in every narc I have been with. It always disappointments me. I have a sick need to worship someone. When they show their cracks, they have failed me and I have lost a God. I want one who will remain standing on my pedestal.

  7. ava101 says:

    Yes, we’re all in bondage, but the difference to me is that an empath has a chance to recognize it and walk from the twilight into the light and the narc per definition has not because of his wiring. Not because he couldn’t in fact, in the contrary(!), but because he doesn’t want to because of how he is. He wants a lot but strangely enough, not to get out. And maybe because he’s scared, I mean – when you firmly expect to fall endlessly into a black hole with no way out, … you wouldn’t want to try (but that’s not for me to say). That isolation project would show great courage, actually … that is … HG: couldn’t you get re-traumatized???

    I sometimes do wish I could go back into the matrix, though.

    I personally think that the way out would be the connection to the one source, the father-mother-soul, through meditation, and that is exactly the way a narc wants to avoid, I think. He’s stuck in the surrounding material reality of illusion. Really just my personal impression. There is a great meditation school in London which has the key …

    Not sure if I mean the same thing by “creature” as you, as I haven’t read the book by HG with that title yet (I’m sooooo sorry, HG …):
    – I saw my ex-narc like an empty shell a few times, completely sunken in.
    – I saw my father like that shortly before his death.
    – I once had a vision of the empty wasteland inside of my exnarc, the drought, long, long before I had any idea what he is. I was shocked, and he hated it when I described to him what I had seen and sensed, of course.

    How would I react to this knowledge?
    I would do my best to convey that I could accept it, that it’s okay, who is his, that I feel with him, and to assist him to go wherever he wants to go, and to be whoever he wants to be. … But my experience is that a narcissist defends his inner …. non-core, like fighting for his life.

    Is this what you were asking or something else?
    Why are you asking? 🙂


    I’ve been chewing on this whole paradoxon a great while now, and I would gladly accept that it’s not my problem, if narcs wouldn’t hurt other people.
    I’ve tried to ask HG but got no answer, nor from my ex-narc: if they just could accept that there could be friendship from someone like us, knowing how he is inside (friend, not Primary source), … maybe that could change something about the kind of fuel they need? If they could only learn to trust one person or one higher being, maybe the would change what they need? Because HG said that he suspects that a knowing PS wouldn’t give him what he needs anymore. But maybe his needs could change through that.

    But the will to change something has to be there and the responsibility for that, also, from the person himself.

    Just my humble personal thoughts.

    Into the Twilight

    OUT-WORN heart, in a time out-worn,
    Come clear of the nets of wrong and right;
    Laugh heart again in the gray twilight,
    Sigh, heart, again in the dew of the morn.

    Your mother Eire is always young,
    Dew ever shining and twilight gray;
    Though hope fall from you and love decay,
    Burning in fires of a slanderous tongue.

    Come, heart, where hill is heaped upon hill:
    For there the mystical brotherhood
    Of sun and moon and hollow and wood
    And river and stream work out their will;

    And God stands winding His lonely horn,
    And time and the world are ever in flight;
    And love is less kind than the gray twilight,
    And hope is less dear than the dew of the morn.

    (W. B. Yeats)

  8. NarcAngel says:


    You do not need to apologize, add disclaimers, or hold off on commenting. Isn’t that what is at the very core of this blog? We get to be ourselves? It got pretty snarky in there for a bit, especially considering that some had previously purported to be above that. You have always been up front about using your humour and the fact that you choose your relationships-you are not a victim. It must sit in the craw then of those who live for validation of their intellect to have been ensnared and fooled, thus causing their anger and need to assert their (self) perceived elevated position. Keep being you babe-otherwise the bullies just take over the playground. And that serves no one, because bullies don’t know how to play and therefore don’t need one.

    1. Love says:

      Aw thank you NarcAngel. I appreciate your words. I don’t want to walk on eggshells, fearing who might be negatively impacted when I ‘continuously throw myself at Mr. Tudor’s feet’. I don’t understand how my attraction towards Greaters can deeply wound someone? How does that come across as me being insensitive towards others’ pain? If you have survived a narc’s mental torture and abuse and have been torn inside out upside down, and are here healing – then you are DAMN strong. We are not delicate little flowers that will shrivel and fall apart at the mere mention of a narc. Aren’t we propagating the victim mentality and underestimating our own strength by being too ‘politically correct’? We’ve all gone through abuse. Now we all as adults have a choice. Live your life – with or without a narc in it. Our friendly female resident narc does not need to implement boundaries for us about what should or should not be said.
      If one wants to cry, rant, rave, launch a lengthy diatribe about the evils of narcs, yet willingly throw themselves into the fire again and again then so be it. Again, we are all adults with free will.

      1. Twilight Dreams says:

        Ava lol I know, had a moment of brain fog when I repeated that. Yet bondage can come in many forms even the empath can be in bondage. Some willingly go some well many here already know. In the end it is always the choice once you have awareness to the situation.
        Yet Ava if you had a chance to experience the creature, how do you think you would react to this knowledge?

    2. And that, coming from a bully herself, who has bullied many here.

      Love, your declarations for HG are pure and innocent. You also have a wholesome heart. Do not worry about it.

      It is a matter of past experience with one’s narc (intensity and duration of the ordeal, children involved or not etc.) as to how much anger is felt towards HG. If one has not endured too much distress in her opinion, and feels enjoyment in the company of her narcs, she may feel a special bond towards HG, particularly because he helps us understand narc behavior. It is not to minimize those who have suffered greatly in the hands of their narcs. It is just a difference of experience. Some declare admiration and love in a respectful and flirtatious manner, particularly if it is for humour, stress relief, and trying to offer him extra fuel to repay him for his kindness to us here. He is obviously a demon in the real world, and we are all aware of that from reading his articles.
      I have remained polite, unless attacked, but i too have a threshold. So here is my opinion.
      What disturbs me are the declarations of love in a public forum that refer to one’s sexual parts and under clothing, offering HG a view of her body parts with her ‘skirt up.’ That too, coming from a woman who is close to, or maybe even past menopause, whose excess flesh is most likely squeezing out of those undergarments in a not so appealing display. You cannot fight time, so this is a reality. This would in fact be the individual looking for validation. And from her other posts, where she does not refrain from attacking people, her anger is very evident as well. Why she projects her anger and bullying behavior is beyond me.
      Do you really think HG will be drawn to these images that she enthusiastically offers him? Maybe when he reaches that age he will, but for now i doubt he does. I am not claiming to know him, but like many of you, i have read ‘Sitting Target.’ He has many requirements including class and empathic traits, healthy weight, and attractive appearance. Like many of you, i have read ‘Sex and the Narcissist’, where he clearly states that he devalues an imperfect figure. Right or wrong, it is his preference and his choice. He is a gentleman here due to the 5 rules, so he says nothing to such comments.
      I know she will say she will not stop anytime soon as she has done in the past. Be my guest, but HG knows what he likes, and it is certainly not the image you invoke in his mind.
      And please, stop attacking and bullying me in a concealed manner. I have never attacked you. I only defend myself. Have a good day!

      1. Love, i was not referring to you in my opinion, stated in paragraphs 4-8 above.

    3. Bloody Elemental says:


      I happen to agree wholeheartedly with you. I do not expect anyone to censor themselves here.

      I was simply expressing my thoughts on what was written, as I believe I am entitled to do. I do not expect anyone here to agree with or even like some of the things I have to say, but surely, there can be some amount of respect that my perspective (like so many others here) differs from that of others.

      I simply expressed an opinion/made an observation, some got defensive because I expressed it, and that turned into my being vilified (not that I mind at all). I did not attempt to put boundaries on anyone nor did I bully anyone.

      I impose certain restrictions on myself when participating in dialogue here so I can interact with people in a respectful and constructive manner.

      Some here can attest to that. Even when I have had to defend myself or get my point across, I have typically done so in a fashion that is to the point without being overly nasty or derogatory. I have not victimized anyone here (as has been suggested) largely because A) I would get very little from it and B) I wish to participate and contribute just like anyone else.

      It is a fact that we will not always see eye to eye with one another. That is to be expected and encouraged because frankly, it creates the most interesting debate when it is done in an intelligent, thoughtful and respectful manner. If it expected that I respect the opinions, choices and thoughts of others in this forum, which I do regularly, then it is certainly not out of the realm of possibility for me to expect the same in return.

      1. NarcAngel says:


        I both respect and invite your contributions. Indeed during your noted absence there were times I wished you would appear on some posts to weigh in. Your inital observation and comments about people knowing HG took on momentum and a turn when others came on board and while there was humor, it was open to interpretation and the overall tone appeared to change with the original message being overshadowed. Add in Empathic feelings and female hormones and things sometimes go sideways. I know only too well having strong opinions and a sense of humor that is not understood by all how that can occur. My message regarding bullies was not limited to your exchange. LOVE has been addressed in other posts unkindly and at the end of the day she felt (stated) that she would no longer contribute due to varied opinions and I dont think thats what anyone wants here. I’m glad you’re back and look forward to your further interaction.

        1. Bloody Elemental says:


          I have seen those exchanges, but just as I open myself up to judgment and verbal retribution for the thoughts and opinions I share from my perspective, so to does Love with her proclamations of faith, love and devotion toward HG – so to does anyone who participates in this forum for that matter.

          The difference with me is I take full responsibility for what I say and do not cry foul when someone attempts to hurt feelings I do not have in the first place. Because I simply do not care.

          There is a big difference between between bullying and stating an opinion.

          I would also like to point out, I have seen some of the so-called empaths on this site get down right nasty with one another in this space, something which also amuses me mightily when it occurs.

          My initial comment offended some and yes, I knew it would. It did take on a life of its own and sadly, the point was largely missed. I have seen many here claim to be open-minded and I am sorry to say, the open-mindedness only applies when you say things these people can understand, agree with and identify with.

          Thank you for the kind sentiments, NarcAngel. I appreciate your contributions here as well.

          1. Bloody, i have come to respect your comments, your view points, and your insight. If you can find time, please see the article ‘Own’ and let me know if i was out of line. I am trying to heal, to be honest, and grow here. I am welcome to constuctive comments and criticism, but not judgemental and hypocritical ones that continue in further articles. I thnk it’s important for a person to pracise what they preach, before judging and hurting others. I look forward to your insight.

          2. *practise

      2. Love says:

        Thank you NarcAngel.

  9. AH OH says:

    I just entertained myself with reading this feed.

    I am not sure if any of you are aware but I am going to win this one. I already showed my devotion with reciting I am a devotee to HG.


    1. AH OH, lol! Thank you for the injection of humour!

      1. AH OH says:

        PANA a.k.a. PTSD My pleasure! **taking a bow**

        I only say it as I see it.

      2. DFA says:

        Well said Clarece Happy belated brithday to your daughter, I do hope this weekend is wonderful for the both of you.

  10. NarcAngel says:


    Quite an emotional buffet. Theres really no effort to get people in a froth and a lather over nothing now is there? I can only imagine if you were trying.

    1. ava101 says:


  11. UltraViolet says:

    **Throwing shapes
    And I’m
    Getting ready to get down
    Getting ready to get down
    Getting ready to get down
    Ah, I, I’m
    Getting ready to get down
    Getting ready to get down
    Getting ready to get down

    1. HG Tudor says:

      But have you got down yet?

  12. Twilight Dreams says:

    Bloody Elemental I find you very facinating, you are direct and to the point. I am curious as to have you ever come across what some have titled a spritual empath or true empath? I am not saying others are not empaths just these particular ones have many abilities the others do not.
    You being what you are I am curious if you have ever encountered one.

    1. Bloody Elemental says:

      Hello Twilight,

      A spiritual empath is defined as the ability to sense the other person’s oneness with their god.

      When you say true empath, do you mean what many term the universal empath, which is the ability to possess all of the empath traits (the psychic-hybrid) and is supposedly extremely rare?

      I have met many kinds of empaths throughout my life and I am aware there are supposedly various kinds of empaths as well (claircognizant, manifestive, telepathic, etc).

      If I am being honest, the only reason I pay attention to what type of empath I may be dealing with (a strong connection to spirituality, a deep love and connection with nature, an intense love for animals) is to aid me in my plans and schemes and mirroring, though I only participate in mirroring if it is absolutely necessary.

      I have met many who claim to be able to see, do and feel various things. Some have said they were able to see my aura (fat chance), while others have claimed to have psychic connections to friends/family members/trees/giraffes, what have you.

      I have excellent intuition and can read people perfectly but that is because I have spent my life studying others. No magic or connection to the Earth Mother required, I am afraid.

      1. ava101 says:

        Yet unable to recognize your own bondage.

        1. Twilight Dreams says:

          Who doesn’t recognize their own bondage?

          1. Indy says:

            Hi Twilight!
            great questions and I’m enjoying reading your dialog with Bloody on this!

            I may have missed a detail though in response that the question of who does not know their own bondage, I’ll take a stab at it…Typically, lessers and midrangers don’t recognize their own bondage. Those that have more insight do.

          2. Twilight Dreams says:

            Good day Indy

            Thank you yet I believe I was repeating a question I believe ava posted.

      2. Twilight Dreams says:

        Bloody Elemental.

        Yes, universal would be a better “title”.

        You said spiritual empath can sense another oneness with their god, I would agree, yet you are your own god which would make you stand out to them. One may call it an aura,.

        I have no doubt your intuition is spot on. It has to be or you could not accomplish your goal.

        I read in another comment you said god was your favorite narcissist, would you elberate on this for me, as to why you see him as a narcissist?

        Thank you for sharing your perspective on this with me.

      3. ava101 says:

        Twilight: in regard to bondage – the narcissist of course. At least not bloody. HG might, but doesn’t care one way or the other.

      4. Bloody Elemental says:

        Ava – I do not view it as bondage. I am quite content with myself, who I am, how I operate and everything I get out of it.

        Twilight – As for god, think about it this way.

        God apparently requires an endless diet of praise, flattery and supplication. Without strenuous and continuous efforts at placation, god, moody and unpredictable, may lash out in ways that cause grievous harm.

        He demands to be worshipped faithfully and devotedly, without question or hesitation. Question him, and he will punish you. Hesitate and he may cast you into shadow, thus removing you from his loving and merciful gaze.

        When he does not get the love and devotion he requires, god is quick to lash out raining plaques of famine, war, drought, boils, bloody rivers, etc. down on the people he claims to love and adore so much.

        He has developed a set of rules and guidelines for humanity to live by, but those rules and guidelines are next to impossible to live up to and thus, you are required to spend your earthly existence on your knees begging for his forgiveness so you can be granted an eternal Golden Period with him in heaven.

        These are just some of my observations.

        1. NarcAngel says:



      5. ava101 says:

        That’s nothing to do with God, that’s an invention from the patriarchaic era.

        1. Bloody Elemental says:


          You have already made clear that you do not agree with much of what I say and that is fine – you are entitled to your opinion and to disagree with me.

          You are unable to find meaning in what I say other than to twist it to suit the negative perception you have of me.

          That being said, I do not understand your comment. Firstly, patriarchaic is not a word, but I am assuming you meant patriarchal, which is defined as relating to or characteristic of a system of society or government controlled by men.

          Either way, I fail to see what my own opinions and observations on the subject of god have to do with a society or system of government controlled by men. They are my opinions based on my observations, exposure to and study of religion over the years.

          I enjoy debating, but if your aim is to simply pick apart everything I say simply because you have decided you do not like me (based on entirely inaccurate comments you made about me on previous threads – not having experience with “your” kind and not being aware of my supposed bondage as examples), then I do not feel we are going to be productive in our engagement with one another.

          My goal here is to contribute in a productive manner and I will not allow myself to get caught up in anything that does not endeavour to do the same.

          1. Bloody, i read your post about God being a narcissist with considerable interest. The manner in which you lay it out makes much sense, and i find your thinking quite creative.

      6. Bloody Elemental says:


        Thank you. This is how I view religion based on being subjected to it my entire life and also studying it.

        I can expound more if you have any questions. If not, I will simply leave it at that, respecting that not everyone will agree with my observations and nor do I expect them to even though I know my assessment is correct.

      7. ava101 says:

        Hi Bloody, I won’t bother you anymore with my differing views.
        And please write in German to me in future messages which are directed at me personally, as you’re having trouble with my making mistakes in a foreign language, and therefore with understanding the meaning.

      8. Bloody Elemental says:


        You write very well in English, I would not have guessed it is foreign to you.

        It is not your differing views I have a problem with – it your snarky, inaccurate and ill-informed statements about me because 1. you do not know me and 2. you appear to have a problem with me though I do not know why since I have not done a thing to you.

        In any case, if you ever decide you want to hold an intelligent conversation, I am all for it. Otherwise, I am not interested.

        Have yourself a lovely day.

    2. BraveHeart says:

      Following …

      I’d also like to know if you have, HG?

      1. HG Tudor says:

        If I have what Braveheart?

        1. BraveHeart says:

          I apologize; I wasn’t real clear with my question. Twilight Dreams asked B.E. if she had ever come across what some have titled a Spiritual Empath or a true Empath. I read B.E.’s response and was just curious whether you ever have or not, and what your answer would be.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Thanks for clarifying. I have never done so in a face to face situation. I have only ever done so through the auspices of the blog where I have been privately contacted by a handful of people whose messages and the way of delivery would accord with the notion of a True or Spiritual Empath.

          2. BraveHeart says:

            Is it something that would interest your readers, without breaching confidentiality? I’m not sure that it will impact me in any way, especially if it’s similar to what I’ve already learned from you, but I’m curious nonetheless.

          3. HG Tudor says:

            I think it would be but I would be breaching confidentiality BH if I detailed more about the interaction and therefore I can add no more. Of course, should I come across one in “real life” I shall write about it.

          4. Twilght Dreams says:

            HG this maybe a very interesting subject to talk about. I for one am interested in others opinions and views.

          5. BraveHeart says:

            Deal! 🙂

          6. Twilight Dreams says:

            BH what are you curious about?

    3. ava101 says:

      Very good question. 🙂
      Obviously not in rl.

      1. Twilight Dreams says:

        Ava what is a good question yet obviously not in rl out of curiousity?

      2. ava101 says:

        Yes, sorry, I had no idea that this thread would get this long, or I would have specified the topic and person the remark was directed to every time. 🙂
        The question: If he/she had ever met a true empath.

  13. NarcAngel says:

    Ahhh…. Theres nothing like taking in a boiling blood bath of irony…..

    1. In our current friendship, if my ex is playing mind games, which is well masked by him and difficult to see, i indeed disapprove. But i am still attracted to him physically, though that physical attraction is not enough for me to continue being intimate with him. I need an emotional connection for intimacy. I stopped being intimate even before i joined this blog. I am still attracted to his physique though. There is no denying of that. No irony at all.

  14. Maureen says:

    there is no shame in your game😉
    the more I read these blog posts the more I wonder…is this how he thinks? is this his mindset? (he being the N in my life, which for all intent and purposes is a Lesser but teeters on the Greater in some aspects; go figure.)
    my question is: how is that you know how the Lesser & the MidRange will behave on any predictable level without being one yourself? have you known other Lessers and/or MidRangers throughout your life? is that how you are able to explain their nature?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Hello Maureen, I have several in my family, have dealt with them through work and socially. I am readily able to spot them. I made it my business to watch them, see how they react, test them and so on in order to further my manipulation of them and increase my understanding and effectiveness.

  15. PTSD: I have read what you have written and you are so very fortunate that you have the upper hand in this because you don’t have assets together, kids, family together (maybe I have read wrong) and I don’t mean to minimise your relationship at all. Maybe I am wrong but from what I read, he is using some tactics to gain further control over you and simply playing hard to get, and from my intuition and gut I believe you are in a place, of early abuse. He is grooming you and you are being drawn into confusion as if you let him go, you are concerned that he may move forward and the forgiveness you have already extended him he will play on over and over again. The family members he is not talking to is to force you into choices you should not have to make and it is infantile. He is aiming to make you chose, then he will coerce you to be with him and turn down their invitations. Yes, I know you would like it to be perfect and represent yourselves as a couple, I am telling you that is not his objective. He is aiming to isolate you even though he is not living with you! Go with your family, believe me you will spare yourself embarrassing moments ahead, there will be plenty. I know your torn between (what if it is just a thing he is going through and we can get through it together). I feel for you, I am sure your family does too. He could go to anger management, it won’t work and there is little success if any, just a waste of resources and government funds to pass off what they should be addressing that is epidemic. I don’t want you hurt and you are in a very good position to make a choice and stick by it. A hard call- but you can shut him down in the click of your finger. You have that power. <3 <3 <3 Yes you will grieve, yes you don't want to lose him, it is already happening- he is only playing these games and putting himself at the end of a very long line and playing tug of war. He wants to win. You can let go of the string, see what happens after that. Take care of you <3 <3 <3

    1. PRH, you are correct. My ex and i have no children or assets together. We do not live together, and he has never taken a penny frm me nor i frm him.
      Based on your experience, i trust your judgement and i thank you for your opinion. However, we are no longer a romantic couple. We are now just friends. It seemed all good and well, but now i am starting to have doubts about that as well. He is usually kind, but on wednesday he said some things that bothered me. I will think deeply about your advice. Thanks again.

      1. He won’t let you go believe me! You are the caring kind and they hunt high and low and sometimes as easy as they say it is to find replacements, it is the essence of a person, they may not be able to find for a very long time. Your call, friends are very difficult to have once lovers, from my experience- plenty more keep friends with ex-lovers, I cannot and have not and will not. <3

  16. ava101 says:

    You’re always on my mind, Mr. Tudor …
    Seriously: I read the title “Devotion” and automatically thought of how you defined “love” …

    1. superxena says:

      Hi ava101! I am new in this blog although I have been an observer for some time. I got very curious about your comment about the song you mentioned: Devotion of Liquid Soul..I escaped my exnarc( upper cadre mid-range sociopath after 6 years of being the IPS..I have had no contact for one year but he has tried to hoover me through music weekly😳for the past year…One of his ( many,many)songs to me was precisely the one you mentioned. Why did you think about that song in regard the narcs definition of “love”? I tried to find the lyrics but couldn’t find them..English is not my first language so I couldn’t understand all of it. I have not responded to his hoovers..but it is certainly driving me crazy..I am still in his 6th sphere and it has to turn to be sort of a “malign” obsession for him😳I would be reliefed if I could get out of his mind. But it seems that that is not going to happen..for some time…I would appreciate if you could tell me why did youbthink about that song?

      1. ava101 says:

        Dear superxena,
        I thought about that song because HG told us that to him, a definition of love was ‘complete devotion’. As in: you must give everything up in your life including yourself and only attend to me. My mother did that.
        But it still wouldn’t be enough for someone like HG.
        I just like that song, started to listen to it and then I just had to think about that definition.
        Now I will think about the rest of your post. 🙂

      2. ava101 says:

        About why they send music: HG explained that in one of the most recent posts and I totally agree.
        It is simply a way to make you suffer and also to get you to react and to get you back (as narc food, not in the usual romantic sense, but he’s playing with that).
        They know about the emotional impact of music.
        Are those new songs or music you had listened to together?
        My ex-narc sent me music when he wanted to charm me, also sent e-books in the same manner.
        Why can he still send you anything, what communication channel does he use?
        Stay strong. Don’t react. At all.

        1. superxena says:

          Thank you ava101..He communicates via Spotify…he still has “our lists” dated from 2010 ..up to now : one for every year since then..and still adding up songs. I am the one that is checking..I know big mistake..I just want kind of a “guarantee” that I am out of his mind. You never know…Perhaps is meant to hoover someone else..I have to stop checking..The time before I “escaped” him..he applied the same Modus Operandi..och after 6 months of Spotify lists he went to public pictures of significance to us..this time I have “resisted” Spotify for one year..but know he has gone again to Facebook with pictures that just me and him know about…HG was wondering if I am just interpreting this as aimed to me and it is actually meant to someone else. But now again the public pictures onFacebook are hard to misread😳 I am just afraid that he is going for a more direct hoover…I have to stop looking…

  17. NarcAngel says:

    You say that only the Greater has awareness but there was a time when you did not have awareness-it was brought to your attention, And only then you researched, accepted and built on it. This is why people continue to raise it-in the hope that if they’ve heard it enough or in a rare moment choose to investigate this accusation that they might be curious enough to at least google it before discarding the notion. But a seed may be planted as it was in you. Much like talking to those in a coma, it might not help but it can’t hurt. Haha I just caught that I related speaking to a Narc as in speaking to one in a coma. Thats true sometimes in its feeling and also your real self is suspended. Hmmm

    Question: You offered previously that once you looked into your ex-girlfriends observation of you, you researched and accepted you were a Narcissist and that you have honed your craft over time. So then is it your belief that one can start out as a mid-range say, and develop skills to become a greater? At the risk of insulting you ( not my intention) it would seem that was the case as you did not have awareness originally and you have “developed”. As with many disorders, things can change and progress for better or for worse ( theres those wedding vows again). Shudder- you have to be suffering from some disorder to sign on for worse lol.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Hello NA, I suppose the issue is awareness of what? Have I always been aware that I am a Greater (narcissistic sociopath), the answer to that is clearly no. Have I always been aware I was something different? For as long as I care to recall, yes. This will be delved into greater detail in the forthcoming books, but if I was to break it down into “Ages” then it would be something like this.

      1. The Something Is Different Age – 9-12 yrs old – based on own perception
      2. Seizing Power Because I am Different Age – 12-22 yrs old – based on increased perception
      3. Awareness of being a narcissist 22yrs onwards – the provision of information by a third party and then my own intellect and observation
      Beyond this third “age” came awareness of others of my kind, the understanding of my victims and how they function and then more recently increased awareness of being an NS why I am as I am, what has caused this and so forth. – based on continued observation, my intellect and the input of the good doctors

      Thus with reference to those of my kind, some may indeed know that they are Greaters (NS) because they have been told as such in the way I have, otherwise they may not know they are a Greater but they will know what they do, how this effects people why they do it and so on because of the awareness which comes with their increased cognitive function and predisposition to awareness, the honed skill set and craft.

      No, I do not accept one is a mid-range and becomes a greater (no offence taken as I understand the point you are seeking to make). One is always a Greater one may not know that that is the term. It is akin to saying
      “I can move objects through the power of my mind and I have been able to do that since aged 10”
      Then someone observes you doing it and tells you
      “That is telekinesis.”
      Thus you always had the power, you just know more about what it is.
      Now you have a label to the thing that you are.

      In others of my kind

      1. ava101 says:

        Very well explained.
        “Seizing Power Because I am Different Age” … 🙂

        The terms “greater”, “lesser”, … where do they come from?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Thank you. They come from me.

      2. NoNarcs says:

        HG, Your response is really interesting. I’d like to know more, particularly about your sense at ages 9-12 that you were different. Different than whom? Different how? Did you sense that you were different or was it that your situation was different? Did the matriNarc make you feel different?
        I don’t expect you to answer now, but I do look forward to the upcoming book that may answer these questions and others about your early years. I’ve learned so much from reading your books and blog about what you do and how to guard against it, but because I come from a long line of Narcs (my father was one of 12 children, (many I suspect were Narcs), I’m very curious. Thank you again for your dedication to this work.

      3. Love says:

        I told one of my ex mid range narcs he is a cerebral narcissist. He took it well. He said I was the first to tell him that. Now he uses it to his advantage. He delights in telling me about his machinations. They’re silly and I lose interest. He has learned to keep my interest by promising me gifts.

      4. NarcAngel says:


        Apologies for my inarticulate question. I had a lot swirling around in my head and couldn’t quite nail it down (ended up more like jello to a wall). The information and example you provided was most thorough, helpful, and appreciated. I hope to improve on my posts by entering a 12 Step Program-On and on and on. (As you can see, I’m not there yet).

    2. Those are great points NA! I also of the belief that the condition, increases or clusters with one coming and overlapping the other. I have seen this and watched it increase over the years. May have started off with perhaps, adhd then came the addictions, then came recreational drugs, then came alcohol, then came mood swings, ups, down- that is addictive personality. With that comes denial, lies, deception, defense mechanisms. One thing comes on top of another, then comes the defiance and non ownership of ones condition when it starts to affect the lives of others. I see it as a spiralling condition, then came mania and then came depression, then came stronger defense system denial. Then came ODD, then came conduct disorder all the while tourettes like swearing as response to accountability. During all of it was admitted OCD and admitted ADHD. Full blown narcissist, sociopath and meets the psychopath test hands down. The drugs may have been responsible for the paranoia, who knows what started what but family background played a good part in setting him on this course. The temper, rage from a young age. The violence all the way through. More behaviours than I could care to write. Setting up people, controlling and obsessions, obsessive ownership, possesiveness etc etc etc ect –

      You have valid points, I like what you wrote!

  18. Swifty says:

    So HG I’m way past the hoovering stage having been sucked back in way more times than I should. I have now ended it finally and for good. I chose to catalogue most of the events that had led to his demise (losing his supply) over the past 3 years. Usually I get a response back telling me I’m a nut job, a psycho, a drama queen etc and he has done NOTHING to deserve my treatment of him. Then a few days later he calls and talks like nothing ever happened. This time though I threatened to publicly tell everyone what he has done and what he is and to expose the monster in the most public forums if he ever comes near me or my children again. I know narcs hate their fragile ego to be tainted and his public persona is his lifeblood. That led to the usual “you’re a psycho” response followed with a request for NO contact from him! What’s his next move going to be or am I finally rid?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Hello Swifty,

      How are you delivering these threats to expose him? I suspect they might be done in a fuelled manner (which is not a criticism of you, it is often the case given such an emotional topic) and therefore this is encouraging him. Also, how is he able to contact you?

      He will hoover you again as you are entering his sphere of influence, he perceives you as a threat which he needs to control and one which will give him fuel, so this is drawing him to you.

      1. Impose no contact – reassess the ways he can contact you and shut them down as far as possible;
      2. If he manages to contact you somehow, end the call, don’t reply to messages, walk away from him.
      3. Don’t threaten to expose him. If you want to do this, so be it, but don’t warn him. I do think you are better off applying your efforts to building your defences and going no contact and maintaining it.
      4. If you do not provide fuel and keep it that way he will have to get it elsewhere and he will eventually leave you alone. At present you are giving him reasons to contact you.

      1. Darkness Falls Again says:

        Love What do you sense?

      2. Swifty says:

        Yes I need to block all channels. I keep the door open in some misaligned hope that I can hurt him and watch him suffer but i have educated myself and learned you cannot hurt them other than by damaging their only precious asset. Their ego!

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Indeed Swifty and there is plenty of time to do that later. Focus on your own defences at this time.

      3. Love says:

        DFA, I love dancing and watching others dance. I can always identify the men who are incredible lovers by the way they move on the dance floor. They are sensually at ease with their bodies. The music pulses through them. The rhythm is a part of them. I feel the same sensuality and passion when Mr. Tudor writes. It is not hate that moves these dancers and it is not hate that moves Mr. Tudor’s fingers.

  19. Rachael says:


  20. HG, what would someone have to do to create that much malice in you? Can you give us a real life example?
    Also, you forgot to say ‘pretty please’ after ‘i want’ 😀

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Attempt to smear my good name to my façade and make some headway in doing so would be one reason why the malice would surface.

      1. Thx for your reply. Today my ex reminded me that i told 2 family members about our situation, and that he’ll never talk to those family members again due to his ‘rules’ though he wish he could. I said ‘don’t be a coward and just talk to them’ but he refuses. I don’t know where this came frm because i thought he had forgave and forgot. He is starting to drain my energy. I am thinking of ending this friendship. He also answered that he stopped loving me because i stopped giving him good images to reflect (due to my ‘demands’ for his time). I’m shaking right now. It makes no sense. I should have listened to everyone here. But if i don’t keep contact with him, it makes me shake too. I don’t know what to do.

      2. HG, have you ever stopped loving someone because she ‘stopped giving you good images to reflect’?

        He said the love he had for me was of the purest form, and he did not mean for it to get physical. I said 1) then why did you let it get physical and 2) pure love manifests as physical. To #1 he replied he couldn’t help it. To #2 he’s not giving me a straight answer. I got angry and said ‘your thinking is messed up.’

        1. HG Tudor says:

          The truth is I have never loved anybody because I do not feel love, I merely replicate its various manifestations for the purpose of my designs, primarily in terms of gaining fuel. I do not ‘love’ a person for the good images they provide me with, I ‘love’ the fuel. By good images I assume you mean that the person is admiring, loving, complimenting me etc. If they stop and they are a primary source, then the devaluation will begin. If they are a secondary source and they stop doing so, they may be devalued or they may be discarded and replaced.

          1. Thank you for your reply HG.

          2. HG Tudor says:

            You are welcome.

          3. You have made it more clear to me what my ex was trying to say. I think i ‘stopped giving him good images to reflect’ means i stopped giving him positive fuel, so he didn’t like that. He genuinely hates negative fuel. He avoids it like the plague.

      3. ava101 says:

        PTSD: there is a weird personality type which is kind of intimacy-phobic and a distance type. I guess many narcissists are. There are people who typically say “only non-physical love is pure love”, everything else is beneath them. Because: they are better than that. There is a great fear of losing themselves in the union. They cannot let themselves go.
        It is typcial for narcs to have a) a past love which is depicted like a non-wordly angel who they never had sex with (see: HG …). b) to have a future non-existent real true love, who would be the only pure union for them, god-given.
        It is celebral.
        My first boyfriend with narc-traits (or he was one, what do I know, it’s a long time ago) was like that. My ex-narc is like that. He told me that I had been the 2nd woman in his life that he had had sex with and the first and only one whom he had had sex with and whom he had loved. (haha). Before he decided never to have sex again (with me).
        He also professed that he didn’t want to “waste” his semen / energy, he wanted to use his “energy” to develope a higher personality (his words). This didn’t keep him from watching porn.

        However. Do some research on narcs and sex, esp. celebral ones.

        In short: Don’t believe his words. Not a single one. That’s BS.

        1. Indy says:

          Ava!!! That is a great observation, Celebral manifestations in certain narcissists! I

          I also wonder if these folks fall on the sexual continuum of asexual ( a hypothesized sexual orientation). I honestly hate sexual orientation boxes as I do not fall neatly in one, though it is a useful one to understand those that are less interested in the physical. However, one also has to take into consideration asexual being a result from possible past sexual traumas as well. They have to be differentiated.

          1. Indy, thank you. Athough my ex is not asexual in the least, i think u just nailed it for me! Sadly, my ex was sexually abused in childhood for 3 yrs by an adult male. Perhaps this is why he thinks his ‘pure love’ for me should not have manifested as physical (though it did and perhaps that’s why he regrets it).

          2. Indy says:

            Hi PTSD,
            Well, I also think he is pulling out a lot of stops to get you to give him attention, keep you hooked…and he is the “drug dealer” in this game he is playing and “user” of fuel at the same time. It is a control game saying “I don’t know”. Including the sex, as a possible way to get you to chase him, fuel him, ask him questions, listen to him, etc…it is all fuel. Now, is his sexual abuse a factor here, it is possible, though he is playing a game with you for fuel.

          3. Indy, yesterday he said that i can let him go, but that ultimately it is my choice and to do whatever makes me happy. I was surprised.
            Also, I thought he doesn’t like my questions because he often says ‘let’s not talk about it’ and gets irritated by them. Do you still think he wants me to ask him questions? Do you still think he wants to keep me hooked? I look forward to your insight. Thank you.

          4. Indy says:

            Hi PTSD,
            I am sorry to say, yes, I think he is playing mind games.
            You do not have to believe me though.

            Here is what I suggest:
            1.) Test it out.
            2.) Go TRUE No Contact for 2 weeks (1 week longer than typical, right?). That means no calls to him, no receiving his calls, no texting, no emailing, and turn off your auto-receipt on your texts. No third party contact. See what happens. Report back.

            What is telling is also your response to low contact with him. It was hard on you, like an addiction, right? This is a warning sign that it is a toxic relationship (friendship or romantic).

          5. Indy, thank you for your reply. I do believe you. After all, you are a genuine, calm, and understanding therapist. Sometimes it takes some knocking on my head though!
            But simply for my understanding, when he asks me to do what makes me happy, whether that be letting him go or not, how is that a mind game? It sounded sincere to me.
            Also, i will try your plan of no contact for an extra week (fingers crossed), and report back. Thank you for caring, and for being patient with me.

          6. Indy says:

            Yay PTSD!!!!

            Good for you on saying you will try it. I really want to see what happens. Also, just remember that some of that good feeling you are getting could possibly be relationship addiction. So, watch for those signs and craving during this time too (and, I may be asking much…AND it would be amazing if you could journal this as it is easy to forget). I would have pushed for 30 days, as that is when you feel your addiction to him drop, for real. I did. But, one step at a time. If you feel you can extend it, awesome, if not, no shame in that. This process takes time and many of us have had to start and stop and start No Contact before it sticks.

            I am proud of you PTSD for taking this step and being willing to experiment.

          7. Thank you for the encouragement indy. My therapist pushed for it too, but she could not get me to do it. I think your patient, understanding nature is encouraging to people.

          8. Indy says:

            I forgot to answer you question: “But simply for my understanding, when he asks me to do what makes me happy, whether that be letting him go or not, how is that a mind game? It sounded sincere to me.”

            My interpretation is this (and many others may see other ways to see it too), I think he said that to see what you would do. Like a push away…to see if you would pull him back. It is more reading between the lines here. It is like reverse psychology. My ex did this. “If you want to leave, then leave!”…..and then my ex stalked me and hovered me and such when I did leave. It was a control attempt, a gamble on his part, to see if I would pull him back in by pushing me away.

          9. Indy, that explanation makes it more clear. Thank you!

        2. Ava, I appreciate your comments and you sharing your experience. My ex is highly somatic though, not cerebral. He is obsessed with his body. However, i think your observation that some pple only believe that non-physical love is true love applies here. He never really gives me a straight answer or simply says ‘i don’t know.’ That is why i am very appreciative of your insight. Thank you.

      4. ava101 says:

        HG: I love it when you put it in such simple terms.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Thank you Ava, it is the key to effective communication and getting the message across by putting it in a way that the reader can understand and relate to, rather than using esoteric scientific language.

          1. Indy says:

            Indeed, it seems that blunt reality is particularly needed to cut through the fog that many find themselves in when in the middle of the entrapment and inherent relationship addiction within the narcissistic exchange (i.e. perceived friendships, perceived love, etc).

      5. ava101 says:

        PTSD: and stop seeing him, that’s lies and totally consistent with what HG explains all the time, and also with what I have had to realize about my ex-narc. There is no friendship for a narc. Ever.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Correct. It is only regarded as a transaction by us, one where you give and we take.

          1. HG, is it possible for a passive mid-ranger to be giving in the following (my own) scenario?
            He’s been told by two outside sources whom he respects that what he did is wrong. Therefore he knows cognitively that what he did is wrong (though it took one month of blame shifting and projection for him to realize it, but he finally accepted it and went into depression) and thus is now trying to give in a friendship. He asks if i am doing well, texts me every few days to ascertain this, and tells me i should be happy in my life etc.

          2. HG Tudor says:

            It is easy enough for him to do that because he harvests fuel from your responses to the questions he asks of you.

          3. So he simply asking me if i’m well, saying i should b happy etc. gives HIM fuel? I am surprised! I learned something new about fuel today, though i read ‘Fuel’ and gained much from it!

          4. HG Tudor says:

            No, your response to his questions does PANA.

          5. But my responses would be focussed on me, because he is no longer part of my life. So would that still be fuel for him? Sorry for my confusion.

          6. HG Tudor says:

            No, the manner of your response and the fact you are answering him will provide him with fuel unless you answered in a fuel free manner which I very much doubt that you do.

          7. Have i understood this correctly? Even if my answers are about myself, because they are filled with emotion – voice inflection (over phone), emojis and exclamation marks (over text), that factor alone will still be fuel for him?

          8. HG Tudor says:


          9. Thank you.

      6. ava101 says:

        And you never get to a point, or a short moment in time, where you see someone just as they are or even like them for who you are? Just for being themselves?
        Someone who knows about how you think and feel (or not feel) and about the black hole? Or is that still only 5 % of you?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          The fact is ava101 nobody who I have been involved with in an IPPS manner has known what I am, therefore they cannot know about how I think and feel.

          1. HG, i know the 5 rules prevent it, but hypothtically speaking, if someone on this blog who knows about your narcissism etc. wants to be your ipps and you also agree (hypothetical) would it be a relief for you that you no longer have to put on a mask for an ipps?

          2. HG Tudor says:

            Actually the five rules do not prevent, it is more to do with the practicality of gaining fuel from those proximate to me as opposed to from people I do not know who are invariably a long way from me, but leaving that to one side, would it be a relief? I do not find what I do a strain so it would not necessarily be a relief if I chose someone to be my IPPS who knew precisely what I was.

          3. But you would not have to use valuable energy in maintaing a facade. You could just sit quietly with a blank stare, which i assume is your default setting. You could let you simmering fury surface more etc. and she would understand. Considering this, would it not be a relief?

          4. HG Tudor says:

            But consider this, if she knows what I am, she would not be bewildered and confused by the things I do and thus the quality of fuel would be affected.

          5. Darkness Falls Again says:

            Why do you say this HG, depending on the empath she may be able to provide this to the level needed for you, both positive and negative. It would be of a different quality.
            Or is it fear that would hold you back?

          6. Oh! Valid point!
            I asked my ex if he would rather marry someone who knows he’s a narc (he could be himself) or someone who does not know. He replied that it makes no difference.
            Because i know my ex is a covert narc and relatively quiet, i don’t mind when he doesn’t talk much on the phone. I end up filling the silent gaps. I also don’t mind if he gets irritated by my questions because i know he has underlying fury. But if it makes no difference to him whether or not his future wife knows abt his narcissism, then perhaps i should be more demanding of him to engage in more conversation over the phone, and not get irritated etc?

          7. MLA - Clarece says:

            But there is safety and security in that, which I believe you have yet to experience.

      7. Love says:

        That is a shame Mr. Tudor. We know you. So does that mean there is no chance for one of us commentators to be your IPPS? 😪

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Never say never.

          1. Amen 😉

            (For those who are offended by this, it is just in good fun, humour, and to tease HG)

      8. ava101 says:

        You might try that some time …
        Are you interested in reading what I think?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          In respect of what ava101?

      9. ava101 says:

        And actually, the question was the other way round … 😉

      10. Matilda says:

        “The truth is I have never loved anybody because I do not feel love… I ‘love’ the fuel”


        I am not a psychologist, but from intuition and from what I have read so far, I would say the way forward for you is:

        1) build a sense of self, and self-worth

        2) learn to love your true self, strengths and weaknesses

        3) learn to connect with others, being grounded in your self. There will be no need for pretence. That’s when you can make the change.

        4) learn to love another as you love yourself. That’s probably the hardest part, as you will want to find a reason to disconnect, and run, when someone is getting too close.

        5) stay alert and fight any urges to return to your old ways. Remember at that point how far you have come, and what you would lose.

        The root cause of your condition is self-loathing, not (as narcissism is commonly believed to be) too much love for yourself. You suffer from attachment trauma, it manifests as intimacy avoidance. So, the healing must start with self-love.

        I hope that one day, you will see that who you are is enough. It is actually more than anyone could wish for. And you will see that they will love you all the same.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Thank you Matilda.

      11. ava101 says:

        Oh, you’re right, I forgot to say. 😉
        In regard to friendship and telling who you are.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          BY all means.

      12. ava101 says:

        Thank you Indy! 🙂 I’ve had some practice …

      13. Love says:

        1. NarcAngel says:


          That was a test!
          Future faking
          Jam tomorrow

      14. ava101 says:

        PTSD: that is confusing, yes. I can only answer you two things that just come to my mind:
        a) when you’re confused about sth, something is in fact NOT right. To me, it sounds like a mind game.
        b) hm … I don’t know, is his love for his own body the same as being interesting in “becoming one”?
        Just totally unqulified ideas:
        There are e.g. women who are exercising every day, but still are more like hating their body than loving it.
        It also came to my mind what I read on a narc forum, maybe this drastic example helps, if not, I apologize: one narc described sex as a form of “extended masturbation” …

        To me, the point would be if he’s interested in being carressing, feeling you, becoming one …
        My ex lower-life-narc-type lover was fantastic in bed (the best), but he wouldn’t be touched outside of the bed! He also stayed in control always. Certainly no emotional kisses.

        My ex-narc: he hated sex. He “loved” his body. He was obsessed with putting on weight, e. g. (he was very thin). He saw to it that he was always fit and got all his nutrients. Had a full box of those. He loved exposing himself in the sauna. He bathed for hours.
        At the same time he had no feeling at all for his own body, like when dancing, or trying Tai Chi (to impress me in the first week). He never could enjoy being touched.
        He literally jumped out of bed once, when I came to him to try to cuddle (worked sometimes when he was dressed, but he didn’t cuddle back). He accused me for a whole year that I had wanted to seduce him.

        My first boyfriend kind of liked sex (well… not really, just certain parts) … however, he used the fact that I was no virgin anymore to devalue me. It was a weapon, a false reason why I was not good enough.

        It’s complex, so just some ideas.

        1. Ava, thank you. I will reply to you shortly.

        2. Ava, thank you for your well explained reply. To answer your questions:
          a) perhaps you’re right. It may be a mind game. Indy pointed this out as well. It’s just that he’s been so sincere lately, besides the one time (a few days ago) when he angered me. I need to knock myself on the head maybe to realize it.
          b) i’ve realized recently that he’s probably not interested in ‘becoming one’ thus i stopped being intimate with him (i also stopped for other reasons)
          I’ve read HG’s ‘Sex and the Narcissist’ and you are correct. HG does describe it as a form of ‘extended masturbation’ (HG you sick bastard!)
          But my ex did used to hold, caress, touch with just his finger tips in a continuous motion (drove me crazy), cuddle, kiss oh so gently (which seemed like emotion).
          Btw, your reference to your ‘ex lower-life-narc-type lover’ made me laugh!
          My ex loves his body to the nth degree. He prefers to wear fitted shirts to show off his frame, takes hundreds of shirtless selfies, and follows a strict diet.
          Thank you for these examples. It gives me perspective.
          I’m sorry your first bf devalued you for not being a virgin anymore, esp if you lost your virginity to him. These damn narcs!

      15. Matilda says:

        “… if she knows what I am, she would not be bewildered and confused by the things I do..”

        That made me laugh out loud… yes, all your superiority down the drain!! 😀 😀 😀 A mere mortal you would be… well, you are anyway, you just prefer to keep your eyes shut to this *fact of life*! 🙂

        Oh my, poor next soul mate…

      16. Love says:

        Noooooo NarcAngel don’t say that! Mr. Tudor loves me and one day we will be together !!! I love strawberry jam and he loves raspberry with the pips. You are invited to the wedding 😁

        1. Be careful Love! Many pple here are offended by declarations of love towards HG! I have had to tone it down myself, with difficulty!

        2. NarcAngel says:


          Oooooohhhh! I do love a triangle! (I’ll bring the strap-on).

      17. Bloody Elemental says:

        But, if the IPPS knows and understands you, there would be no need for bewilderment and confusion because she would be able to provide you with the constant barrage of delicious positive fuel you so adore and you would not need to extract negative fuel. From her at least.

        She would worship you and put you on the highest pedestal imaginable.

        Then at least, you would know you have one person who understands you. Who adores you with everything she is and would do anything for you without question.

        It is the ones who do not understand you who bring out the worst in you. Because they are treacherous traitors who are never happy with all you do for them and give them.

        1. MLA - Clarece says:

          Bloody!!!! Dare I say our thinking is parallel on this?! I also believe though, if an IPPS is aware and understands his mindset and how he perceives criticism, her way of communicating could evolve so there would be less wounding. However, she would still challenge him allowing for the contrast of fuels. And I think he would welcome that or he would get bored. The difference is, he would finally know someone has his best interests at heart. Until he can be upfront about exactly what encompasses his whole life including his family dynamics, therapy, his blog, his books, he will never feel as though someone truly accepts him. Only the facade. No one stands a chance at avoiding getting devalued.

      18. Bloody Elemental says:

        It amuses me so when I see people write things like “we know you.”

        What you are getting here is “He Who Has Graciously Bound Himself By The Five Rules In Order to Interact with All of Thee in a Respectful and Constructive Manner.”

        I have said it before and I will say it again – if you were to meet HG in real life, half of you would not survive it, the other half might survive but would up talking to rubber walls for the rest of your lives and a select few (like Clarece) would be fine because you would use the opportunity to learn as much as you can while keeping your wits about you.

        1. HG Tudor says:


        2. MLA - Clarece says:

          Thank you kindly for the nod! Who knows? Maybe HG would be talking to rubber walls after surviving me…

      19. ava101 says:

        Yeah, right, bloody, we’re so stupid inferior things, just because we lack arrogant malice. *lol*

        1. MLA - Clarece says:

          Awww, no, not at all Ava. I didn’t interpret that message in her comments. I can see her viewpoint clearly though over the course of time seeing different groups of commentators come and go. Yes, it can be amusing. (To HG most of all).

      20. Love says:

        Missed me, did you, Bloody Element 😘
        Happy new year to you too. ❤
        As Mr. Tudor has stated himself, many of his formers have gone on to live successful lives after him. I disagree with your statistics: 50% of us would not survive and 50% of us would be institutionalized. Even if that is the case (which it is not), I still would take the chance.
        So never say never 💜💚❤

      21. Bloody Elemental says:

        Thank you Clarece for having an open enough mind to be able to understand my comment RE: people here thinking they “know” HG.

        I do not think, as PTSD suggested, that people are “offended” by declarations of love toward HG. It is simply interesting and yes, amusing, that many who are looking to heal from the purported abuses inflicted upon them by our kind are so quick to throw themselves at the feet of a man who is, on many fronts, the poster boy for our kind.

        Greaters are few and far between and more malignant than any Lesser or Mid-Ranger could even hope to be. What is worse – Greaters are self aware. When they dole out the abuse, they are aware they are doing it, they WANT to hurt you as much as they possibly can, and they revel in your emotional and mental demise.

        I am the first to say I completely understand HG’s magnetism. I understand why you are drawn to him and I have no doubt in my mind he is impossible to resist (both here and in real life). It does not surprise me that many here are taken with him, especially in this space where he is so gracious, forthcoming, and well-behaved.

        What HG has built here through his hard work and dedication is a Golden Period with no foreseeable end. He has done this so he can interact and debate with everyone here in a respectful and constructive manner. It is brilliant and fortunate that he has done it this way because it means those who would benefit most from his perspective and insight have been given an invaluable gift.

        Ava, it is interesting you took my comment the way you did (to mean that I think you are stupid and inferior). Projection at its finest. Perhaps you should spend some time reflecting on the root cause of your inferiority complex instead of trying to malign me by putting words in my mouth (or anyone else’s for that matter).

        The respect I have for HG comes from a very different place and was born for very different reasons. I respect HG for who he is, even (especially) the ugly bits. Some here have chastised me for that, but at least I am honest. My respect does not come with conditions, nor is it hampered by his inability to feel love or his lack of interest in altering his behaviour. I do not wish for him to change nor do I judge him for his actions toward others. In fact, it is because of those things, and because I can relate so strongly to them, that my respect for him continues to grow.

        Similarly, many of you are quick to call me awful or talk down to me when I offer my perspective on things. A perspective, I should point out, that closely resembles HG’s. There have been instances where I have basically said the exact same thing HG has said numerous times or agreed wholeheartedly with something he has shared here, and been insulted, taken to task for it, talked down to or called a charlatan.

        If those of you who have suffered at the hands of our kind can come here and throw yourselves at HG’s feet (after posting diatribes detailing the countless ways you were wronged by your “narc”), then there should be no judgment passed upon me, one of HG’s kind, for admiring and respecting him for who he is.

        1. Bloody Elemental,
          “What HG has built here through his hard work and dedication is a Golden Period with no foreseeable end.”
          Well said! Agreed!

          You stated: “I do not think, as PTSD suggested, that people are ‘offended’ by declarations of love toward HG.”
          But pple have been offended Bloody. See the article ‘Tears – Part One.’ I explained that praising or flirting with HG is in good fun, a stress relief, for humour, and to try to provide him with a little extra fuel. I also pointed out (perhaps in another article) that i’ve called him a ‘sick bastard’ in the past. Finally, i ended up apologizing, had i indeed offended her. She later apologized as well.
          Bloody, sometimes i wish i were as bold as you and be able to stand my ground. I just dislike offending people. It makes me uneasy, and i prefer to keep the peace when possible.

        2. BraveHeart says:

          Very well said, BE!!!

      22. Bloody Elemental says:

        Love, happiest of new years to you as well.

        Funnily enough, there is no science or fact-based evidence to back up the “statistics” you are referring to in my comment since it was more of a tongue-in-cheek comment made to express my amusement.

        It is true that HG has said many of his victims have gone on to lead successful, happy lives after him. My in-depth statistical analysis did not purport that you would be permanently destroyed or damaged, though there are real statistics (and testimonies from people here on this site) that indicate many have been.

        Perhaps you would fare better than most, but I do not think it is fair to downplay the impact the abuse can have on others simply because you would be able (and obviously very willing) to subject yourself to it.

        All I ask, dear Love, is that I be invited to the wedding. I have the perfect wedding gift in mind, just for you – a bejeweled gas mask (akin to the ones worn by the women in the pictures HG uses to illustrate his posts) so there will be no confusion about who HG’s latest objet du jour is.

        Apt, n’est ce pas?

        1. MLA - Clarece says:

          B. E., can I be your plus one to the wedding?

        2. Indy says:

          I really appreciate your statement on not “downplay (ing) the impact the abuse can have on others”.

          I suffered dearly, my sister suffers currently and her children do as well and are working to get out. Many of those I work with professionally have suffered to the point of suicidal ideation, self-harm, loss of self-identity, eating disorders, substance abuse, etc. This is dangerous stuff that can lead to death. Telling the difference between a “greater” and a “psychopath” and a highly functioning, very smart and controlled serial kill is VERY HARD for the clinically trained. So, you too are in danger. Further, often, there are children involved along the sidelines too. I felt I nearly lost my mind. And, I am strong! I have gone through multiple deaths in my life, took care of a dying parent, raised a child with special needs, etc…I have strength in spades. It is toxic and dangerous and can produce PTSD and worse. At any time. Reminder, 5 rules.

          Love,I understand you are using humor and I really do appreciate that. Hell, I use it all the time and believe humor is healing. And, it is/was a very harmful and traumatic experience or experiences for many of us here. Please do not forget this.

          1. MLA - Clarece says:

            Well said and a nice reminder for starting the new year. Levity and humor are most definitely needed and I encourage that wholeheartedly. But then there is total off-putting remarks where I’m left as a reader thinking, “I see the words on the screen but I’m not feeling it at all.”
            Were you on the blog, when one reader who came and went over a week period actually hit HG up to meet her at her hotel while traveling in London I believe? Mind-staggering! There is always the option to message him in private. Jeesh!

          2. Indy says:

            Thanks, MLA.
            I do not wish to put a kill on the use of humor, (mine can be sick at times, I admit) though I see the consequences of the abuses of even the lower and mid rangers on the daily in real life. The pain is real, deep, and traumatizing. Honestly, strength has nothing to do with it. Would one say when a soldier experiences from PTSD that they are weaker. No. It is a normal reaction to an abnormal situation. The body and mind protecting itself. And, that protection comes with a very steep cost. I still am recovering and wonder if I can really love/trust again. That is a very steep cost.

            Oh, man. I missed that one. *chuckles to self*

          3. Clarece, you are alumni here and i have come to respect that. You and HG are friends, as you say. You challenge him and it encourages him to think deeply. I also admire how you stand your ground! I am learning much frm you. I just wanted to let you know that. Also, your ‘JN’ reminds me of my narc, due to him being younger than me (he is in his twenties). Have a great wknd with your daughter! 💗

          4. MLA - Clarece says:

            Hello! I have noticed some parallels in describing your Narc and that connects the dots knowing he’s younger. Oh, those Millennial Narcs are a handful! Lol
            I really appreciate you reaching out and the compliment that you think I stand my ground. It never seems to work with JN. Haha. So here I am, everyday for my daily reinforcement and good conversation with you nice people!
            My daughter turned 11 this week, so yes, we have lots of fun things planned for the weekend.
            Happy weekend to you too!

          5. Indy says:

            Happy Birthday 🎉 to your daughter!

          6. Clarece, happy belated bday to your daughter!

          7. Clarece, was that commenter Hiding2014-2016? I remember some fuss over her comments. If not, i’m really sorry Hiding!

          8. MLA - Clarece says:

            Honestly, I don’t recall the handle name, but that one does ring a bell. Like I said, when they don’t last long and that’s what they offer up as a contribution, I tend to skim over to the comments that are the meat and potatoes of the blog. Lol
            Whoever she was, she lost me at that point.
            One can hit on HG all day long if they want. I get it. He is patient, charismatic and very understanding here on the blog to many of us whose reality was being gaslighted for so long, we’re being validated and finally heard. But if you make it in a bedroom with HG, none of us commentators will be in that room with you two. So just keep it private and have some decorum.

          9. Well said clarece!
            I trust you and your daughter are having a great birthday wknd?

      23. Love says:

        I apologize to all if my use of humor downplays the malevolence of narcs. Especially Greaters.
        I shall add a fine print to all my comments that states ‘Do NOT try this at home kids’.
        Bloody E, yes sweetheart you are invited to the wedding. You had me at jeweled mask. As long as it is of real jewels, you are welcome anywhere. Merci.

      24. Bloody Elemental says:

        Congratulations Love, on entirely missing my point.

        Disappointing that all you can take away from what I wrote is that I am annoyed or offended that your sense of humour downplays our malignancy.

        I could promise they would be real jewels Love, but you would be a fool to believe me. 😉

      25. Bloody Elemental says:

        Clarece – I would be inconsolably offended if you were not my plus one.

        Indy – You got it and that makes you awesome.

        1. MLA - Clarece says:

          Yaaassss!! Do you think HG will mind if we steal the limelight from his blushing bride? lol

          1. HG Tudor says:

            You won’t be able to Clarece.
            I will have stolen it first.

          2. MLA - Clarece says:

            Says you, from your world view.

          3. Bloody Elemental says:

            Her face will be covered by a gas mask anyway, Clarece.

            Also, I think HG would derive plenty of fuel from our chicanery!

          4. HG Tudor says:

            Chicanery is a marvellous word.

          5. MLA - Clarece says:

            It will make quite the Snap Story…

      26. Bloody Elemental says:

        PTSD, I understand and thank you for sharing your perspective with me.

        I agree that the flirting is fun and in good humour for most here, but for some, it is clearly a case of lambs to the slaughter, whether they want to see it that way (or admit it) or not.

        I have never been one to shy away from a good blood bath though, so as long as I have front row seats, I am happy.

        1. Bloody, lol at ‘blood bath’ comment. I wish confrontation were easy for me. But i am learning here, by example, particularly frm long standing readers and regular commenters like clarece, you, and indy, to not shy away frm a clash of opinions. I feel my personality is growing just by being here.

          1. Indy says:

            Good for you, PTSD!
            Yes, getting comfortable with differing opinions, respectful confrontation, and standing up for your values without anxiety or defensive postures is a huge life skill. It takes time. It has for me as well. I tend to be a peace maker, until I am crossed. I have learned to find the gray and be a little more assertive earlier so that I do not get to the point of either quiet anger and resentment or blowing up. I grew up in a home where anger was not allowed to be expressed by the kids…and women. Unless at the kids. Soooo, I developed a weird relationship to anger. I suppressed it. Not healthy. Now, I harness it more. It feels good once you get there!!

          2. Indy, thank you! I am learning and growing. I admire your approach to problems and conflict. HG should give you a moderating job here😀

      27. ava101 says:

        Oh no, I had not lost my virginity to him, but to my first love. First boyfriend didn’t like that. ;P
        Oh, I could write a book on my ex’s and sex, *lol*.

        However: just be careful, watch him, watch yourself, maybe write down the stuff he says, … watch out for mind games. The suggestion to try no contact for some weeks sounds sensible to me.
        Confusion is always a sign.

        1. Ava, i understand now. And i would be interested in reading your book, if you write one! 😊
          And thx again for your comments.

      28. Love says:

        Bloody, sheathe your claws kitty kat. I’m not in the mood to spar with you.
        Indy, I understand many have been and still are traumatized by interacting with a narc. I read the comments and my heart goes out to each and every person in pain. My humor is not with the intent to mock or downplay others suffering. We all have our own way of healing.
        If my humor is truly disturbing to others and it further traumatizes them, then my apologies again. I will hold back on any comments. Best wishes to all.

        1. Indy says:

          Dear Love,

          I certainly do not wish for you to go (frowns). I do not think others do either. You inject a lot of fun and loving comments that is needed here. You are important here.

          My comment on my experience came from a place of real concern of your safety and a reminder of the solemnness and severity of the abuse that I experienced as have my family and clients. (You know this, Love, you have been abused too) Just today, I saw a man in the waiting room where I work. He had the same hair cut, glasses and fleece jacket my ex had, from behind it looked like him. My heart jumped, my reflexes jacked up as I got ready to flee. (It wasn’t him) He had threatened to come to my job and for that moment I did not feel safe. It has been six months, Love. I still feel this. A house key was left at my doorstep two weeks ago. It was his old key that no longer works as I had all my locks changed (He threatened to break in earlier this year). Again, my fear came back. My questions race, did he try to break in? Am I being watched still?

          I say this with respect for you and with honesty. I joke, I play, and I find joy in your comments. And, I am going through some tough stuff too. It is the dialectic of this place.

          I hope you reconsider staying.

        2. Bloody and Love

          I think Love knows that HG has a very dark side that is not to be underestimated. However, i believe that those who have not suffered abuse for as many years as others (eg. 2 yrs vs 20 yrs), do not have children that were abandoned or abused, have not faced physical violence, do not share a home, finances, or assets with their narc, and have not suffered financial loss or property damage, may have endured less trauma than others. I do not mean to minimize anybody’s suffering, but i am speaking comparatively. Perhaps these are the individuals that tend to romanticize HG more than others. I fall into this category, and i believe Love does as well because i recall reading that she chooses not to have children, and she enjoys the company of her narcs. The severity of the abuse that others have endured is not being downplayed, but this category of people may have enjoyed more percentage of time in the golden period rather than in the devalue period with their narc. It is a valuable point though that HG is offering us an extended golden period due to the 5 rules, and that he is very manipulative and ruthless in the real world. These are my observations. Others may disagree.

      29. Bloody Elemental says:


        I saw the comment thread you mentioned. I consider the source – the one who made it seem as though your interaction with HG was offensive – and I say bollocks.

        If you can learn and grow from HG and the readers here, keep doing what you are doing. If you cross a line or are out of line, HG would be the first to tell you and it is only his opinion that matters.

        For my part, I was simply trying to point out, in an articulate and intelligent way, that despite all of HG’s charm, intelligence, honesty and politeness here, there is a very dark, malicious, calculating and cold side of him that no one here has ever, or would ever, be subjected to.

        HG has been asked numerous times whether he prefers love or fear and what has his answer always been? Fear. No matter how much love and adoration and devotion an empath drowns us in, we get more out of fear and confusion because those emotions cause a different sense of power to flow through us.

        It is akin to the “animals in a fucking zoo” comment I made on a previous blog post when, once again, the point I was making was completely lost on some.

        Does it offend me when people underestimate our kind? Yes, but mostly because the I find the utter stupidity of the underestimation nearly intolerable and totally incomprehensible.

        1. BraveHeart says:

          BE, it bothers me when others of my kind (Super Empath Supernova) underestimate your kind, especially now that I’ve been taught so much. I’ll do anything I have to, to enlighten others to the likes of you and HG. Thank you so much for being here with us, your words are invaluable.

          1. Bloody Elemental says:


            Thank you for your kind sentiments. I am pleased to be here.

        2. Bloody, thanks for taking the time to look through the comment thread i was referring to. I appreciate your insight.

      30. Bloody Elemental says:

        Poor thing, my claws were never unsheathed (you would know if they were) but once again, you feel the need to try and make it look like I am being unreasonable or doing something to provoke/cause harm to you.

        I see your “poor me” and raise you a “don’t dish it if you can’t take it.”

      31. Bloody Elemental says:

        Oh HG, you know Clarece and I are your #1 fans and you know that we would steal the limelight from the bride only to have it shine on you.

        With Clarece and I in attendance to keep you entertained and fueled up, you will forget it is even your wedding day!

        1. HG Tudor says:

          I am obliged.

        2. MLA - Clarece says:

          I about sprayed my drink out across the dinner table reading this. Lolll
          But yes, we can make someone shine!!

      32. Matilda says:


        I want to help you out of this fog, so, here are my two cents:

        “he said that i can let him go, but that ultimately it is my choice and to do whatever makes me happy”

        Been through this hell! He KNOWS that you will not want to let him go, that is why it is so easy for him to say that! His tune would change in a heartbeat if you turned your back on him! Guaranteed!

        I know because I did. It took all my strength, it nearly broke me, but I did! Guess what happened after a year of ‘no contact’? He asked me to say anything, even if just to tell him to go away! Why would I need to tell him, if my silence speaks for itself?

        In former, I took the bait, and broke ‘no contact’. I *thought* that I was strong, reading him the riot act. But what I basically demonstrated to him was that I was a WEAKLING who could be messed with! When I first read about ‘no contact’, I wanted to slip out of my own skin with rage… because I realised the error of my ways… but I also knew that I had found the holy grail! 😀

        He now says he is afraid I might ‘chew’ him. Well, I take that as a compliment!! 😀 And he is damn right! I would. In an instant. And without remorse. He deserved it. But staying silent tops shredding him, so, that’s what I will do!

        — — —

        “But my responses would be focussed on me, because he is no longer part of my life. So would that still be fuel for him?”

        ANY response, regardless of content, is fuel to him. He is not interested in what you wrote. All that matters to him is that you DID reply!! It tells him that he still has the power to get a reaction from you. He gets his fuel, knowing there will be more in the future!

        There will come a moment however, when you will not want to turn around anymore… because you will understand that he has never loved you… you will sever all ties, without guilt… because your ‘job is done’ with this man… he cannot be healed… and you give yourself permission to move on, Ptsdafternarcabuse!

        1. BraveHeart says:

          “When I first read about ‘no contact’, I wanted to slip out of my own skin with rage… because I realized the error of my ways… but I also knew that I had found the holy grail!”

          My sentiments exactly, Matilda! 🙂

        2. Matilda, thank you for sharing your experience, as it sounds similar to mine. I believe you are correct. He knows that i would choose to maintain contact.
          I do know that narcs can’t love and have accepted this, but i thought there is no harm in maintaining friendship, since he requested it numerous times. Usually it is a stress free interaction, but on wednesday he said some things that bothered me. He almost sounded as if he doesn’t need me, when he has been saying for the past four months, that i have given him a new life. I was confused. I am learning new things about myself through my dynamics with him and i do hope there will come a time when i don’t feel a responsibility or an attachment to him. Thank you again for taking the time to comment.

      33. ava101 says:

        Bloody I really think that you are underestimating and highly delusional. You are completely see-through and obviously have not dealt yourself with one of our kind. 😉

        In regard to HG: it is clear what he is (as clear as can be that is, but it has been pointed out that there are things that your kind can’t see either).
        Yet fascinating as on my level.
        As pointed out before, too, there’s a difference between ‘not anticipating such premeditated malice when entering into a relationship that’s supposed to be based on trust (a core concept your are not able to grasp)’ and being aware of the existence of such kind now. We weren’t born with your complete lack of trust in anybody, that is the reason.

        However, at present you wouldn’t get a foot in the door with me, you would be invisible.

        I wouldn’t engage with someone like HG because I would want to protect my physical well being.
        I engage in dialogue for reasons of self exploration. Sth HG seems to be able to, too, when he wishes.

      34. Matilda says:


        “My sentiments exactly, Matilda!”

        … and you cannot imagine how many times I felt the urge to throw my beloved Kindle out of the window!! 😀 … if I had bought physical books, they would have been torn to shreds! 😀 😀

      35. Matilda says:


        you are welcome. It is ultimately your choice, of course, whether you want to stay in touch or not.

        I just wanted you to see the whole picture of his sleazy ways of push and pull, which are meant to keep you guessing. His aim is to keep your mind occupied, thinking about him! Letting go is very painful… take your time, and listen to your gut instinct. You will be okay! 🙂

    2. ava101 says:

      Oh, this “trying to put yourself in narc’s shoes” is really confusing.
      I guess HG, the question is:
      Not a primary intimate source, but a secondary non-intimate source, a friend? Someone whom you design to give you positive fuel?
      Someone who kind of knows who you are and accepts this, more or less?
      Could you then see her back??
      The original problem of narcissus was that he couldn’t SEE the others and their love for him.

    3. ava101 says:

      But then again HG, you might consider what quality of fuel you really need.

  21. Sarah says:

    So are you thinking all this while you’ve discarded someone? Don’t you forget about former supply once they are discarded? Or do you obsess over hurting us while you ignore us?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Hi Sarah, fair question. It depends on what has happened. If I discarded you and you slip away and mourn over the end away from me, I do not think on you and focus on the new primary source. If you keep popping up and getting in the way, I will toy with you through malign FUHs (a lesser or mid ranger will do so to make you go away) but if you have done something which merits my malicious response (for instance escaping me and cheating on me, smearing with to my façade with some success, exposing me with some success) these would ignite the malicious response described.

  22. BraveHeart says:

    This is a glimpse inside to understand what I want …

    I want you to know that I know too. I want you to know that your wounds are self-inflicted. I want you to feel the warmth of our bed at midnight. I want you to hear my voice everywhere that you go. I want to trust you. I want my face to appear even when you close your eyes.

    I want you to break free from your chains each and every day. I want your scars to heal. I want you to always feel full. I want you to always see my love for you. I want you to glance my reflection in the window and feel those butterflies of joy in your stomach. I want you to feel my hand on your shoulder and wished I were there.

    I want you to scream with joy that you’re happy being you. I want your fantasy to implode. I want to know when you’re angry. I want to know you love me. I want you to know everything. I want you to learn the cost of losing me. I want you to know that my respect is always a given.

    I want you to know your secrets are safe with me – locked side my heart. I want you to understand that the sweetest thing is to be with you. I want you to stand up by my light. I want you to feel freedom by the sound of my voice. I want you to realize that compassion is a must. I want you to never have to beg me for anything.

    I want you to know that evil is ugly. I want you to feel safe. I want you to see the light. I want you and your world to heal. I want to see you cherished by all. I want to see the hope in your eyes so I can gain light from it. I want you alive because there is always possibilities. I want you to run and be free.

    I want you to now know the true meaning of love. I want you to grasp what you have done to me. I want you to experience truth. I want you to feel the earth as being solid. I want everything you once knew to mean something still.

    I want you to recognize. I want you to understand. I want you knowing left from right. I want you to walk in my footsteps. I want you enlightened by the light that I breathe around you. I want you calling for help and knowing I’m coming.

    I want you to understand that dreams don’t need to be crushed. I want you to always know the truth. I want you to be honest. I want my aliveness to raise you up.

    I want you to tell me what you need. I want to see you surrender. I want you to find that not everything is black or white. I want everything to taste like Heaven to you. I want you to understand what it feels like to be trusted by another. I want you to pray. I want you to pray.

    I want you to unmask yourself. I want you to be honorable. I want to see you swallow your own lies about yourself. I want to hear your contentment down the phone line. I want you to stop. I want to share with you, what belongs to me.

    I want you to understand that there is light everywhere. I want you to stop betraying yourself. I want you to find what you once had and give it to yourself, again. Just give it one try. I want to see that smile appear. I want your day to begin with peace and happiness.

    I want the clouds to enhance your moon. I want the steady drum of rain drops to disappear, so I can see you coming. I want to know who you are. I want your nightmares to dissipate so you can dream. I want your thoughts to be peaceful and quiet.

    I want you to understand I will stop. I want you to realize I am serious.

    I want to watch you gain control.

    I want you to win.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Nicely written BH and I appreciate the sentiment contained therein.

      1. BraveHeart says:

        Thank you, HG! It’s all true for me! I want only the best for you in this life!

    2. ava101 says:

      Wow! 🙂

    3. BH That is awesome!!!

    4. Matilda says:

      This reads like a prayer, Braveheart… made me cry with joy… thank you for sharing your thoughts!!

      1. BraveHeart says:

        You’re so welcome, Matilda. You know, it’s interesting you say it sounds like a prayer to you because, honestly, it felt like I was being led by “my” God to share these words with HG (and the rest of you)! And, truth be known, it made me cry too, as it was coming from my heart and soul and onto the screen.

        I love reading the thoughts of everyone on this site. I truly believe it’s healing for all of us in our own ways. 🙂

      2. BraveHeart says:

        That includes you, HG! 🙂

      3. Matilda says:

        “… as it was coming from my heart and soul and onto the screen”

        I know what that feels like, BraveHeart… deep truths that cannot be kept a secret any longer… and we share our thoughts because we know that we are truly understood, and as you say, we are healing together 🙂

  23. NoNarcs says:

    Blah, blah, blah…same shit different narcissist. It’s getting tiresome all this talk about I want, and me, me, me. The wizard looks very different when behind the curtain. Thanks for letting us in on the secret, HG.

  24. Still Confused says:

    Loving your kind comes at a huge price. I have deep pity for all of you…and all of us.

  25. Indy says:


    I think you may also be saying “I want you to know me, see me, be me.” “I want you to know my existence and the pain I experienced being created”

    I see you.

    1. NarcAngel says:


      I have said that more than once (and early on) during the seduction to each Narc. I see you. They dismiss it and then later I will remind them that I told them in the beginning and knew all along.

      1. Indy says:

        Hi NA,
        That is interesting NA. Did you mean you truly saw who they were and accepted them or that you caught the mask and were no longer fooled or both?
        I meant it in this case that I saw him in this post. Not just the mask.
        It is a true gift to be seen for who you are and accepted. I don’t know if you have this feeling, NA, but for me, to be truly seen and accepted is healing. When I was young…into early adulthood, I felt invisible. It’s a painful place. Part of the depression. Being seen is validating to me. Now, do not take this for me accepting abusive behavior. No, it’s accepting the pain, understanding the feeling, seeing.
        Not sure if that made sense.

        1. NarcAngel says:

          Hi INDY

          Both. In the three that I am thinking of, I said it early on to acknowledge the mask slip and so I could refer back to it later. An example: one got agitated when I commented (on purpose) that I could have guessed that he would have a beautiful car and in a neutral low key color. Of course he fixated on the last part. I said: I only meant that its classic and not flashy, I didn’t mean to upset you. He snapped: well no one ever means to do they? I replied: I see. Yes I see very clearly. I see YOU. He then caught himself and turned back on the charm instantly, and of course I referred back to that incident much later when I exposed him. But with the one who has lasted the longest (ongoing), I have seen a small child a few times. Not the petulant brat ( have seen that also) but a vulnerable and/or humiliated child. Example: he was telling me that at his gym they wanted to take pics of him doing pull-ups (proud), but that they joked they should wax him first to get all the definition (angry), then he looked at the floor and fidgeted and turned into a 10 yr old (even in voice and with filled eyes) for a few seconds to relay the humiliation of going the next day to find they had purchased a wax kit as a joke, before reverting back to anger. Yes, they can make pity plays but Im a hard ass and I know what I saw. In that moment I attempted to heal his wound by telling him that he was so superior to them that they were jealous and looking for a way to elevate themselves by trying to bring him down to their level. To disregard their comments as pitiful and beneath him. He was pleased and back to himself. Later (not same day) I referred back to seeing the little boy and said I wished he would come out to play more often then changed the subject immediately.

          Do I feel seen and accepted? No. I have shared things only here. Not even my first husband (6 yrs) or present (30 yrs) knows the real stories of my upbringing. They can see that it was not easy but they have no idea. Those things I can write about but I feel if they don’t pass my lips they stay contained. I trust no one.

      2. Swifty says:

        But does the Narc see it? Are they aware of who they really are? Is it always malicious intent or can milder narcs be oblivious? I used to wonder if my ex was retarded???

        1. HG Tudor says:

          It is the greater who has the awareness. The desire to crush in a malicious way can be evident with Lesser and Mid-Range but there is not the awareness at all.

    2. BraveHeart says:

      I agree with you completely, Indy. That’s exactly what I got out of this writing! 😌💕

      1. Indy says:

        Brave heart,

        You wrote what I felt quite beautifully! Seeing the wounded boy gets me every time. Because that is the true being within, caged. I think being seen is healing. It is for me. I witnessed the little boy in the recent ex narcissist in my life and it was the boy that I loved. And, I had to leave that boy, because the man protecting the boy was abusive to me in his process of protecting the boy and creating and fortifying his construct. That is partially what hurt so much when I left. And, I am glad I was able to leave, as the little girl in me deserves healing and love too. I will not abandon her.


        1. BraveHeart says:

          WOW!!! Beautiful minds truly think alike, Indy. Your words are just as heartwarming!!! 😌💗

    3. Indy that is what they condition their IP to feel, to experience until they see themselves in the empath then despise the mirror they look into when all is done- they ask to be hated. I remember clearly when I was sweet, patient and kind. I recall the moment, when he said, “you are my angel, you are the better part of me,” In a split second, he said- hate me hate me hate me, I replied I will never hate you. He put tripwires and snares, convincingly pulled off stunts where my forgiveness was offered to the damaged part of him. I stood at my kitchen counter and was struck on the face, a shock tactic- he launched into a frustrated attempt to provoke hatred. I turned my cheek, he hit me again, I turned my cheek and he hit me again. I stood in faith and as tears streamed down my face silently, one last strike and he chanted, now hate me. My reply, I don’t hate you, I pity your slavery to some controlling element that rules over you.

      1. Indy says:

        Hi PRH,
        There are no words I can say, it hurts to read your experience. I can feel it in my chest. I am sorry you were hit. And, you are right. He wanted you to hate him, just like someone else possibly did sooo long ago. To repeat the past in an endless trauma cycle. Fuel, ugh. And, it is also beyond fuel in this situation. (Maybe I am wrong).

        1. Thank you very much Indy, I am sorry my experience went to your chest. I am re-reading Skinner trying to make sense of it, again. No, you are not wrong, it is beyond fuel, I am not sure fuel has anything to do with it all. I feel very left by society, have had no real understanding by therapists, they cannot comprehend the scale of abuse that has been ignored by the services in place that could not assist and that saddens me profoundly that we have so many suffering and so many suicides due to the lack of their understanding just how deeply traumatic it is when failed. I feel he recreated his life in an endless attempt to force the feelings that he has locked away tightly and it was explained to me that he made me his proxy. I understand through reading on HG’s site that you have experienced alot of painful experiences as have most of us here and would like to tell you how sorry I am for your pain. I read of others experiences and feel deeply for their sorrow, their grief. When I read of people becoming numb through abuse, I dream it could be me. Unfortunately I was given the freedom and positive reinforcement to feel and express in my parental home. I got knocked hard from that safe place, when venturing out into Narcville a naive and deeply loved unconditionally young woman. A part of me should be dead, killed off but it is my monster in a way to deal with because even though my heart feels like it has small swords sticking out from it, I continue to feel others far too much. I cannot switch it off, I cannot run from it and must face my abusers head on and do it my way if that makes sense, because they must understand at what cost it has taken on my health and my life, will be their consequence to face.

          1. Indy says:

            Hi PRH,
            You said “I cannot switch it off, I cannot run from it and must face my abusers head on and do it my way if that makes sense, because they must understand at what cost it has taken on my health and my life, will be their consequence to face.”

            I do understand and feel your passion behind your mission. Unfortunately, the abuser may not own it, even when you face him/her/they with all the evidence in the world. It is that lack of guilt that keeps them from feeling a need to make. I have found in order for me to heal, I had to let go and practice radical acceptance in this case. I cannot change their mind, change their behavior…but I can change mine for inner peace. Do not let them still get the best of you, even after you left. It will keep hurting your health more and more. Mind you, acceptance does not equal agreement with behavior. It is simply meant as a way to release the pain by letting go without needing to control the other person’s responses.

            I learned a skill called compartmentizing when I became a therapist. It helped me form boundaries of emotional experience so I didn’t take on everyone else’s pain fully…even though I still had the empathy. It has allowed me to survive with less pain. Now, we also have to learn that pain it self is useful tool and is not a “bad” thing. I am grateful for my pain. Pain exists for a reason, to warn us that something is wrong and we need to act, either to escape the situation (i.e. abuse relationships) or to work on ourselves (create boundaries). Part of my process to compartmentize was to learn mindfulness of my emotions as opposed to others emotions, know the difference as they can get mixed up in us empaths, learn my body signals for different emotions that communicate to me what is going on and imagine a protective force field or wall at first. I put feeling sin boxes, in rooms, in spaces…though it is hard at first. And leave them there for a period of time. Not permanently, like some try. That is not healthy either. Then, I gradually moved from this to being able to use my breathing to release other’s pains, rather than place them in a room/box. I breathe it out, and send mental messages of peace to the other, of compassion to the other while breaking off for me. It is a lot of work, but doable. A good DBT and Compassion Based Mindfulness Therapist can teach you some of these techniques.

          2. Thank you Indy 🙂 I have learned the technique using my senses, until there is for eg: only me and the noise of an air con for example, one by one shutting all of the other feelings out until it is just the aircon. I have increased all of my boundaries and don’t detract from them but as you know it is very hard work, consistently maintaining them whilst others are desperately trying to bulldoze through them. Regardless, I am happy to say they can love me or hate me it makes no difference to me, now and although they may through tantrums and snares, I am vigilant in maintaining my conditions and boundaries. I hear what you are saying about placing the emotions into their categorical boxes and yes we empaths get flooded with energies from all that we connect with and attract good and malevolent energies and it is this part I need to work on. I am mindful when in public…I have had this issue my entire life and must ask what is it about myself that puts out what energy that I am seized upon and cannot even have a latte alone at a cafe without being intruded upon. I have purposefully dressed down, don’t use my eyes to look at anyone, keep my head down and nothing as yet works. I get invited out alot, should go, I really should and have made many excuses to the point people who enjoy my company are asking what they have done to scare me off. They have not done anything, I just find it very overwhelming and prefer to work alone, do my own thing and have an immense relief when working with animals. People, I love dearly and I called upon in many ways but you know sometimes you just need space and then you learn to love the space you are in and although we may be great at healing others, for ourselves it is quite difficult due to our natures. My hands are healing hands Indy, yet I cannot place my hands on my own body and get a miraculous outcome. I don’t know that I will find the answer I need, many have tried to give me lotions, potions, crystals and yet I can walk into a place and get invaded with their energies, it goes further than that too. You know, I don’t want some of the gifts I call a curse, I don’t want them and would gladly pass them over to another. I don’t know that i can say I acquired them, through environment or genetics, it has just been this way since a baby. I can say that a few years ago, a family secret had come out and out of that a very overwhelming and joyous knowing that had finally come to light all those years later was my half brother. He flew very ill to meet with me, it was a very emotional and amazing time he spent with myself and meeting the family. I found myself in him, I finally found him. He had been a track farrier all of his life, our lives were so similar. he stayed with me for weeks and he was me and I was him. We thought the same way, we are both emotional, as he talked he would hold back tears, or chose to let them flow and yet he was a guy. He told me of his abilities and his exact words were, it scares the sh*t out of me. He gave me family heirloom photos, I was in the photo, my God it was me and another very similar to my daughter. These photos were of my great grandparents, wedding! My brother passed away, his last call made to me broke me. Sorry, sorry love he cried. We were kept form knowing the truth or at least from my side having what I always knew inherently, confirmed. This life of mine has been very odd to say the least. I have no answers. Thank you again INDY and bless you x

      2. BraveHeart says:

        I’m sorry for your experience, PRH!!! I was physically abused by my brother growing up and by my first ex-HN. I know your pain, although different in many ways, I’m sure, and absolutely no one deserves to be treated the way you were.

        Hugs to you 🙂

        1. BH as long as we can take these experiences and in some small way help another, somewhere, sometime we will continue to love and continue beyond any form of abuse to be of an honest contribution and earnest so that our pain was not in jest. Hugs back to you and we shall continue to chase the sun 🙂

          1. BraveHeart says:

            Right on, Sister!!!

      3. PRH, this brought chills down my spine. You are a brave lady. Pls stay safe.

        1. PTSD, Ii have had to be 🙂 It is suggested I am safer with him than without him and although offends me deeply, they have reason that warrants that concept. Some day it will all come out. Thank you and I have walked the house all night smudging with white sage, he does not know what I have done whilst he slept over him. That is already having an effect, best I can do as of now 🙂

  26. MLA - Clarece says:

    The wanting in you has such intensity. It is just as visceral coming out in the love bombing when all is pleasant. But then you wouldn’t be you if not operating in extremes!

  27. ava101 says:

    To want, to know, to dare, to be silent.
    Inverted indeed.

  28. DFA says:

    HG I am glad I was sitting when I read that, your writings are amazing and very insightful into the mind of those that walk silently amongst us.

  29. Selena says:

    Tears streaming down my face… this is so true. I have no contact and the police are having to deal with him now I do hope it stops but deep down one way or another I know it never will.

  30. Love says:

    How can a man that writes so passionately be void of emotion??? Where is this passion coming from? I cannot attribute it to hate or fury. It is something much much deeper.
    Have you ever achieved all the objectives you listed with an IP?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      As I have said before, I am not void of emotion, I have emotions, just nowhere near as many as you.

      1. BraveHeart says:

        It makes me sad that others stole your beautiful emotions away from you that I know you once had. I hope one day, through all your hard work, you’ll be able to regain them back and begin to discover your true soul.

      2. Love says:

        Yes you’ve said you possess only the negative emotions. Anger, hate, jealousy. What emotion did you feel when writing this?

        1. HG Tudor says:


      3. Love says:

        Hm. That is not the feeling I sense when I read it.

      4. BraveHeart says:

        I sensed pain, Love! Deep, horrendous pain.

        HG, do you believe in fate? Do you believe all things happen for a reason?

        I DO!!!

        I believe you were meant to start your “Life” blog and that all 2,366,809 (probably more by now) of us, who have come to your site, are meant to find “You”. I believe that none of us knows where any of this will take us in life, but I’m thinking, in the end, you are meant to see the light. I can’t imagine you sharing all of your knowledge with us for no reason at all. HG, you were never meant to be put into the darkness; you were (and still are) meant for the world to see the “real” you, not the facade you pretend to be. I can see why you do it, however! I can sense only a glimpse of your pain. Though I will never know it to the fullest, I do know the excruciating pain I felt when I was betrayed by the ex-MN, yet I know it pales in comparison (a million times over) to what you felt when you were betrayed as a young boy. HG, I hope you can be as open (I know you’re wise enough) to letting our light of truth shine upon you, just as all of us are open to listening to every word you have to say, regardless of how brutal it is. Believe it or not, you do have light somewhere deep inside of you, I just wish you could find it and see it for yourself. You’re showing us your truth and our own, as well; and, I will forever be grateful to you for that! I am grateful that our paths crossed, even if just in the world wide web. I truly believe it was meant to be.

        BraveHeart ~ XX’s

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Thank you BH, your empathic traits are most evident and I appreciate the nature of your sentiments. I do not believe in fate though, you make your own destiny or others will make it for you.

      5. Jaybay says:

        You have emotions very deep yet very controlled. And only regarding yourself

      6. Nuit Étoilée says:


        This page holds so much information…

        Wow.. passion through hate…

        That never really occurred to me as an option..

        I sensed longing.. desire – that is what is being expressed when we ‘want’..

        ..but then.. it would mean a longing for control.. a desire for power…?

        When we empaths “see” you and express our longing to love you, it is not to control you.. It is coming from a desire to share.. I feel when we humans touch each other – in a physical but also emotional sense – the intimacy is precious.. delicate… the safety in trust fills a void all of us have..

        Is a lack of ability to trust at the root of the fear of abandonment? ..at the root of NPD?

        Thank you and the commenters for these insights…

        I am left rather speechless, HG..

        ..mais toujours avec mon amour ..

      7. Nuit Étoilée says:

        I went and did a bit of research (it’s what I do) on the question of fear of abandonment causing lack of trust and I got it the wrong way round –

        The fear of abandonment leads to a lack of trust.. difficulty building intimacy.. etc..

        ..furthermore, these fears tend to make matters worse, as people w abandonment fear find partners who reinforce these negative feelings..

        ..so, moths to a flame?

  31. Snow White says:

    This article makes me cry HG.
    I still feel love for someone who manipulated me and this is how she feels about me. I find it very sad and heartbreaking.
    And then to think that you carry this around with you all the time.

    It is all a game to your kind and you want to win and I didn’t even know I was in the middle of the game. No one has to lose.
    We could have both won. I wish you could see that.

  32. Bruised says:

    I want never gets HG! 😉

  33. Sitting here looking around my home and I see what is repulsive, I see it,,the large white candle near me, its white glass holder is printed with Relaxation Peace Serenity Tranquility Happiness Joy Calm Harmony and Meditate. There are signs and themes, it is arty and eclectic- warm and inviting, but where is he in all of this? Who is he? From leadlight shades on lamps, to bookshelves of books, from statues and figurines, from plates and limited editions depicting my love of the wild animals, cheetahs and wolves, turquoise dream catchers and horses, native american indians, owls and angels- where is he? From living creatures, birds and my closest to two wolves, horses and dreams- where is he?
    Angels in glass snowglobes, dancing when wound up to the music, picture frames and family, that should be mounted on the walls, sitting in safe places for that would be a risk. Was it so vile, really..Is it so revolting to cause such a revolt and an all out war because I know who I am and in the whole house, one room tucked away to the side, with one little box of his little things, photos of himself mainly in a room with no character, no essence, baron, just the necessities- a bed, a side table- nothing but the barest of a comfort zone from childhood- Where did the years go, why still hiding in your room N, why are you so distant and so cold, so cruel and so resentful?

  34. Matilda says:

    There is a shift inside, this post does not trigger my rage… it tells me what I know to be true… it is a warning of what will await me if I am not careful… and it brought tears to my eyes because I know how far removed I am from everything that others take for granted…

  35. How sick is it that you and I believe that is love?

  36. Wow HG! My N personified! Looking back the word STOP has been used more than any other until I have come to the understanding, he knows no bounds. He can’t STOP he was not taught to STOP. I suppose STOPPING means dying to the N. I guess it means if he stops, he is not in control and that is so fear based. Must be why he cannot just be, cannot just sit and listen to nature, cannot STILL himself without having an appliance be that me, the tv, the phone, the music, the work, the impulses driving him…it is he that is the machine, a robot. A slave, a mechanical mouse running over and over and over again on a little wheel until he tires himself out so much to abate the forces that keep him in his great delusion. Changing the batteries as their life runs out having new ones available at all times.

    I want you to understand I will not stop. I want you to realise I am unstoppable.

    I want to watch you lose control.

    I want you to lose.

    Heck, if that is what your kind wants, then why sabotage its end and drive yourselves nuts and everyone around you with this onslaught?

    1. lovieland says:

      Whoa. Dickula never stopped either. Has 6 companies, 6! He always said he needs to stay busy. Idle hands make the devils work

  37. jarwithaheavylid says:

    Well, that should bring all the masochists out.

  38. Kat Huff says:

    This post gives a good look at the sociopathic mind and specifically the immaturity of the emotional capacity of the narcissist. The title “I WANT” and the theme throughout is childlike. Children live in the thought process of “I Want” without comprehension of the wisdom that life brings as one matures emotionally within the realm of experience. It doesn’t hurt to want, not really, but life doesn’t work that way, not in the grown up world of reality. Excellent write-up, HG!

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Thanks Kat and interesting observations, thanks for sharing them.

    2. HG has nailed it Kat! I don’t agree but having lived with it, I see and feel all of it and no it does not resonate with maturation or emotional intelligence. The school of hard knocks does not excuse it, in reality not everyone goes into the world to conquer and destroy because they had a hard childhood. Some never grow up and some make sure their lives are not repeated in their loved ones lives.

      1. Kat Huff says:

        Yes I agree that HG nailed it, PurpleRibbonHealing. It is true that not everyone ends up being a narcissist who is emotionally immature. But what we are talking about here is a sociopathic narcissist, which as a child has shut off certain emotions and created a false-self. The actions and thoughts of the individual directly relate to capabilities or non-capacity or childlike state of the emotions at the time of the creation of the false-self. The sociopathic narcissist is doing to others what was done to him/her, because out of desperation of survival the individual became the monster they feared, the monster who hurt him/her — no more pain if you are the giver of pain instead. Of course, in reality it’s not possible to be without pain, it only gets buried, it’s still there.

        1. Thanks Kat. Sound explanation and feel like I am dealing with two people, his mother and father. I never met them so he screams at me, that I have no idea, however I remember exactly how he portrayed his life to gain my attention and sympathy and now he suggests that I imagined almost every shocking thing he has ever said.

  39. NarcAngel says:

    Read it back.

    You just gave voice to Creature making you his Bitch.

    1. forsakenguys says:

      I want the narcissist to know that she made no impact on my life whatsoever. No scar on my flesh. Her memory fades like a bad movie I seen last week. No impact on my life at all. Why miss a leech or a tick. Nope, she was just a pesky mosquito that I swatted away. I find it cute that she may try to hoover back one day. Lol. That is grade a entertainment. If she doesn’t hoover, I win too. She loses. End of game.

      1. Indy says:

        Forsaken Guys
        The best revenge is living a good healthy life and continue no contact.
        HG has a book on revenge, if you wish to do more and when you feel strong enough to not be pulled back into the manipulative dance. I personally was hoovered like crazy and it was all I had in me to just maintain no contact. But so worth it. He has slowed. Hang in there! It’s understandable to want them to know and when you pay her no mind and the draw to her fades, you heal and have the best payback. You have you back. How long were you together? Have you been entangled before by others with similar patters? Once I left I realized I had a pattern that drew unhealthy folks to me. Thus I had to find out what part of me do I need to heal and work on too. As I was unhealthy too, I tried rescuing everyone. That was my pattern.

        It’s a learning experience in the long run and I hope you continue to heal!

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