5 Common No Contact Mistakes – No. 2 Thinking We Will Not Hoover You


A second common mistake which occurs when somebody implements no contact is thinking that there will not be a hoover from us. As I have explained, the hoover takes place at various points in the dynamic between narcissist and victim. In this instance, it concerns the post escape or post discard hoover.

Where you have escaped us, you will almost always face the Initial Grand Hoover as we unleash a frenzied attempt to bring you back under our control. This will happen where you tip us off and also once we realise you have embarked on your escape without giving us any notice of what you are doing. (You can read more about how we react in such instances with these articles How No Contact Feels – Part One   How No Contact Feels Part – Two  How No Contact Feels – Part Three ) Should you manage to resist the Initial Grand Hoover you are usually granted a period of respite as we seek fuel from our supplementary sources (secondary and tertiary ) and look to find a different primary source.

Where you have been discarded of course there is no Initial Grand Hoover. We have a new primary source and we focus on that person, effectively deleting you from our minds. You may try to contact us, to get answers, to win us back, to try and resolve unfinished business and you are rebuffed and receive malign hoovers which cause you to back off.

Accordingly, in the case of escape you have rejected the Initial Grand Hoover and there is silence. Or, you have been discarded and your attempts to connect with us have been rejected and there is silence from us. You implement or maintain no contact going forward and the fact that you have heard nothing from us, no messages, no phone calls, nobody calling around to see you, no enquiries from our friends or family causes you to think that you have weathered the storm and that it is all over.

It is not.

I will return to this presently.

The other common mistake that people make with regard to thinking that we will not hoover is making use of the phrase ‘final discard’. I have seen this used many times and I do not know where it has originated from. It appears to be the case that people seem to think that there is some final flourish from us as we tell you that this time it is REALLY over and this time I mean it (although didn’t I say that last time?)

There is no such thing as a final discard. I have written previously that the word discard is not accurate because it really is a dis-engagement. In our minds, our relationship with you lasts until either you die or we die. It is for life because you belong to us. Yes, we will put you from our minds at certain times (when enjoying the golden period with someone else, when we place an IPSS on the shelf) but this does not mean that it is over.

Just because you have weathered the sustained effort of the Initial Grand Hoover to win you back does not mean that we have got the message and we will leave you alone. It is a temporary cessation in the hostilities. Our need for fuel will send us elsewhere as we hunt down a new primary source but we will be back. You have a period of respite by which you can build your no contact and recover but do not be drawn into thinking that this one off blitz of hoovering was the end of it. Similarly, do not think just because we have told you that we wish you would fuck off and die, or disappear off the planet that we will not come back for more. Just because you have tried to speak to us but we have rebuffed you does not mean that that is the end. Not at all.

We are contrarians, hypocrites and engage in contradictory behaviour. This is because of the narcissistic perspective that we adopt. We do what the fuel requires of us. All is as the fuel dictates it to be. If that means in January you are persona non grata, it does not mean that by May we will not declare our love for you once more. What has gone before is the past and we have no sense of shame or reluctance in coming back to you again. It does not matter that we once cast you aside because you failed us. That was then and this is now. Now somebody else has failed us, they have been painted black and this means that you are back in favour. You have recovered and we see you through the lens of being a ‘good’ person once again, someone who is going to give us what we need. It is irrelevant that you let us down  previously. What matters is that our perspective causes you to be seen as a good source of fuel and we want it.

It is understandable why you might think we might not hoover, this may be for any of the following reasons:-

  1. We were so savage in our discard of you;
  2. You exposed us to people when you escaped;
  3. Significant time has passed;
  4. You believe there was a ‘final discard’;
  5. You hear we are with somebody else;
  6. You are with someone new;
  7. You sent us packing when we tried the Initial Grand Hoover.

Whilst these may influence the likelihood of a hoover occurring they will not in themselves mean that it will not happen.

Accordingly, just because of the circumstances and the passage of time, you decide you can go back on social media, you can accept friend requests from strangers, you can go to the places you had avoided for some time, you can talk about us freely again with your friends or even our friends and so on. This is dangerous.

I am not suggesting that you must spend the rest of your life always looking over your shoulder. That is unsustainable but you ought not to think that there will never be a hoover because if you do this you will instinctively lower your guard and in so doing you will cause two things

  1. You are far more likely to activate a Hoover Trigger by entering the spheres of influence; and
  2. You will lower the bar on the Hoover Execution Criteria and thus increase the chances of a hoover happening.

Of course you may well be in a better place and thus far more able to repel the hoover when it happens but there remains a risk, because of your inherent susceptibility to our kind, that as I explained in Part One of this series, you will allow exposure to us cause your emotional thinking to rise and over take your logical thinking which means you are risking being dumped into the emotional sea once again.

If you think a hoover will never happen you will become complacent and you will then start to do the very things which will result in a hoover being MORE likely to happen. Thus, by always reminding yourself that there is a risk (even if it is very small) of a hoover taking place you will continue to maintain a degree of vigilance which ensures this risks stays small and you do not begin to engage in behaviours which encourage us.

I see repeatedly people state that they know their narcissist will not hoover again. They write that it will not happen and they are safe. The only way you are safe from a hoover is if we have died.

I have hoovered somebody after a 12 year hiatus. I would do it after a longer period of time if there was a Hoover Trigger and the criteria are met. There is fuel available and we will take it and assert our superiority and control over you. Remember, we made an investment in you, all that time ago and we will want to keep drawing on it. The fact you have not heard from us for a long time is because our attention was elsewhere and your no contact is proving effective so even if there is  Hoover Trigger, the criteria are not met and therefore no hoover follows.

If you start thinking we will never hoover you, you will become complacent and that is when you run a greater risk of a hoover actually taking place.


143 thoughts on “5 Common No Contact Mistakes – No. 2 Thinking We Will Not Hoover You”

  1. Hi HG,

    I have read your reply to one of your comments here. About secondary source (disengaged) wouldn’t be hoovered by the narc. But why my ex-narc ‘friend’ whom I just got to know and got close with only for 3 months and discarded me.. tried to hoovered me by using fake social media profiles, sending me messages not revealing his self, did these things? I assumed that was also a tactic of hoovering, right? Why did he do these things if I’m only a secondary source?

    1. There is always the risk of a hoover, it will have been the case that in the instance referred to the HEC will not have been met, hence the comment that the individual would not be hovered at that time. Yes, you were hoovered and he did it primarily to seek fuel but also to test the waters to ascertain if you would respond favourably (thus avoiding or diminishing the risk of wounding) and to gain further fuel and in larger amounts.

  2. HG,
    Thanks for your honesty. Very helpful while trying to wrap my head around the behavior of a neighbor from hell.
    As I am learning more about the N, I thought to myself that it sounded just like a pushy guy I dated for a very short time in high school. 40 years later, yup 40 years, that N showed up at the class reunion (he was not in our class) to hoover aggressively. Wow. While it was very annoying it was also very funny to check off all the N traits as he spewed his bs. Peace.

  3. This was UNBELIEVABLY helpful, at a time when i so needed it. Six weeks of no contact… thought i was ok, but i was wrong. Thank you for this, and for your honesty. I’m sure its not easy to be so honest, but you’re helping countless people… thank you.

  4. I just want to say how accurate this piece of writing is. They never ever, ever let you go. I’m lucky to get through a week without him trying to contact me. I’ve tried every way to block this married narcissist and nothing seems to make him go away. Thank you for clearing up my wishful thinking. I hope karma will get him.

  5. So are there good and bad sources of supply when it comes to exes? And are they related to the time that has passed after the relationship was over? Example: you had a very good source of supply for 2 years, she has been no contact for 1 year. You had a less good but still good source of supply for 5 years. She’s been no contact for 3 years. Both don’t break no contact. What does the hoover depend on? Is one of them more likely to pop up in your head or there is no rule about it?

    1. It is fuel, not supply. No, the quality of the fuel is not related to the time period. The hoover depends on the Hoover Criteria and the Hoover Execution Criteria.

  6. Dear HG, I had a meltdown and sent you a message that I am glad you did not post. I have had a number of problems and the narc at work sent me over the edge. I am back in control now. I am very glad of this and I believe it will remain this way because every hurdle I overcome makes me stronger and wiser. Thank you again for all of the insight you have given me through your writings.

  7. HG – you are a genius. I have read everything you have written. So tested out the hoover theory in the aim that I could supernova empath him. Entered a sphere of influence , casually, non emotional and low and behold a year after the silent treatment he responded. You are right – wherever there is a narc there is a hoover

  8. Something struck me yesterday. Would a narcissist use their kids to hoover you back in? When I was discarded I still had all the Christmas gifts for him and his kids. So he knows it’s been hurting me I couldn’t give them. We didnt have kids together though, but he knows how much I loved those girls and the other way around. Keeping in mind I exposed him, would he still use them as a means to an end? As a mother myself the thought is unreal.

  9. Hello HG,

    I’m not able to install NC since we work together. He does not even need to put much effort into contacting me, because …I’m there. I discuss only work related subjects with him and only if really necessary, but by doing so, I’m slowing myself down from 1. advancing with my job (and career) and 2. healing.
    I have been trying to keep things as neutral as possible, but I don’t even really know what “neutral” is anymore.
    We have this upcoming event and I know he will be there, therefore I do not want to participate. What will he understand from my absence? “She did not come because it still hurts her to see me” or “she did not come because she does not care”.
    What is the best approach in handling this, as I can’t change my job right away?

  10. It’s been nearly 5 months since the break up and 3 month since I spoke to him. Perry sure there will be no hoover.

  11. Hi,
    May I ask ,if you leave the relationship (after many years ) due to a violent incident in which there is police involvement which means there may be severe repercussions for the narcissist if he contacts you, and if you successfully manage to “disappear ” from his area,social circle etc so that despite searching for you the Narcissist cant find you is he likely to give up and find easier prey ?
    If the Narcissist ,doesnt believe in divorce or sex outside marriage and is not successful enough to attract other sources of fuel what is likely to happen?

    1. Hello LM, as ever it depends on whether there is a Hoover Trigger and whether the Hoover Execution Criteria are met.
      Thus, factors such as the type of narcissist, his fuel network, whether there is a court order in place, whether he was wounded, whether he regards your fuel as excellent fuel, ease of contact all play a factor.
      The most important one is ability to contact. If we cannot find you or find a way to contact you, the hoover cannot happen. If the bar is too high, then we will seek fuel elsewhere.

      He may say he doesn’t believe in sex outside of marriage but he is unlikely to practise that.
      If he cannot attract enough fuel he will suffer a fuel crisis.

  12. HI HG,
    Thank you for all your advice. From you I learned that my husband has traits of a mid range covert narrasissit or borderline personality disorder. He has been gone from our home for 14 months. He lives with his Mother and he has no other supply. He is “the good Christian” on the outside, but treats me either terribly or beautifully.

    He was giving me the silent treatment again and I had enough and filed for divorce. He said nothing. He avoided receiving the paperwork for 7 days. He signed but them delayed sending them back for over a week. Again, he says nothing to me. So I get email saying he wants to stop by today to pick up the rest of his things. He comes in, barely speaks to me, gets some of his stuff and leaves. We got all of his stuff over here in one trip and this is his 3rd trip to pick up his stuff, but still left things behind that were clearly starring him in the face.

    He has never hoovered me these 14 months, because I am always the one initiating contact. Not anymore. The divorce hearing is scheduled in May. Did he leave his stuff here on purpose? Old trophies, some tools etc or does he no longer care about these items? Why come by for 10 minutes and not say hardly a word? He lives an hour and a half away.

    Thank you for your reply. I look forward to what you have to say 🙂

  13. What were the results from your 12 year Hoover?
    How did she enter your spheres?
    I just went over this whole series with my counselor and she said your work is remarkable and that you are an amazing man.

    1. She moved back into the city where I live after being away and I did not know where. A mutual friend told me where she worked. I issued a benign hoover. It worked. We had dinner and fuel was obtained.

      Thank you.

  14. Great reminder, HG! Like SW stated above … I love this series. I’ve been guilty of believing he won’t return anytime soon, but I wouldn’t put it past him, doing so in the future. I will always keep my defenses strong because I, for one, hate being caught off guard. I’d much rather be prepared at all times.

  15. Hey HG he changed his # I changed my first its been 5 months no see 1 month discard now I’m being hoovered again my ? Is if he discarded me this time changed his # why is he on my messages, still hiding his # but flowwing me my PEPs but still hide his # but still hovering me and my FAM why? Always sayings things but not sayibft nothing to me directly changed #

  16. Dear HG, in this article and elsewhere, you always say a narcissist sees his target as belonging to him. I can see this more with the primary source. But what about IPSS and DS? Does the narcissist see them as his?

      1. Interesting. Does it push any buttons when they see a target who got away, and the target is adored and accessible to everyone except the narc?

  17. HG Tudor, Mine NARC was a cop , very r alpha male kinda type. And very very arrogant. always said i dont run after girls. They run after me. So i do believe arrogant NARC will not hoover and lower his pride? He didnt hoover me in 3 years time, neither have i. I went no contact without ever breaking it. Plus a dying question, if a NARC dated yo for 9 months , and spends money on you, respected my wishes not to have sex( i am religious) what does he sees in me as supply? he did forced me to engaged him? i declined his proposal. He then discarded me. Is commitment a supply?

    1. He received your fuel through your responses to his actions during that 9 month period. He was binding you to him through expenditure and the engagement.

  18. I never knew I was drawn to narcissists until my most recent being devalued and discarded. While I do not believe this particular narc will come back to Hoover me, I have been hoovered by narcs in the past and now it’s clear. One was after twenty years. Your videos and blog are truly helping me. Thank you.

  19. May I please ask HG – I have purposely put myself into the fifth sphere of influence by initiating contact through text message. He replies -sometimes – but generally he seems to keep me at arms length, future fakes etc. This man will never leave his wife (the facade must be maintained) so why blow hot and cold. We both know the score. Is he gaining fuel from knowing that he has control over the me (thought fuel), is he seducing others (where does your kind find the time) or merely keeping me, as you would say, ‘on ice’ in case he runs low on fuel. I think I am a ‘failed’ intimate partner primary source and now I don’t even know if I’m in the running for intimate partner secondary source, such is my low contact with him.
    **My fuel is immense BTW**
    The only thing, when he shares something of an intimate nature (a secret, an emotion, a painful experience) he then seems to withdraw completely. Where do I stand with him HG? What’s my best strategy for winning the IPSS race, tactically speaking. Any advice would be be gratefully received. Many thanks in advance xx

  20. Amazing, I had started saying a year ago, I’m tired of these vicious cycles, the up’s and the downs, and we’d do it all over, again and again. I escaped, I’m no contact but slipped up yesturday when I received a text message through probally a phone app number. I couldn’t resist, although I gave fuel, both good and bad, I know it was fuel, but it felt so good to let him know i understand him on a whole new level, and his ways, (without stating what I think he is.) Previously I would had fell for the “I need you in my life, I can’t live without you, I can’t take the silence, I’m a mess without you, I’m scared, I can’t give up on you, just please talk to me,” and ect…. all for a brief golden period and then right back to devalue within a weak or so. Vicious cycle it was. What new insight i now have into those comments and what they really mean. I can’t thank you enough HG. Now I just gotta stay with no contact.

  21. sorry to carry on…. I have to share, i was never given “notice” of ending our Formal Relationship….. cruel consistent devaluation and the secondary intimate promoted to primary was my “notice”? am i in a prolonged “respite”? …. just need to get through TODAY and not break n/c

  22. and here it is, anniversary day & the hoovers have started. I am not in any of the “spheres of influence” except for “thought”…. would appreciate any support from HG or readers to get through this day. i’m trying not to be emotional & not responding to hoover txts… they make no sence anyway… just enough to try to activate me and get his “fuel”, im assuming…. 2/22…. my day of final entanglement

  23. I went completely dark on my narcissist when we split, meaning I changed my phone number, my e-mail address, and left all social media entirely, to the point of deleting entire pages. I started using a different name online. I also moved away to a new address that she never discovered. It was like I never existed and completely vanished off the map. Even if she wanted to hoover me… she’d have to find me first– and she was not nearly as “cerebral” as she thought she was. I have my doubts that she’d be able to locate me even with a tracking device in her hand. She couldn’t find me if I was standing right in front of her. She was kind of oblivious in that way.

    One thing I’ve learned about narcissists over my many years with them: they’re extremely predictable and easy to read once you’ve spent enough time with one.

  24. Hello ,
    I was just sitting here thinking that although logically thinking and past experience has is telling me he WILL hoover me and probably within months or sooner….I still seem to slip into a state of cognitive dissonance and tell myself he won’t do that.
    I look at my email and here it is right in front of me. This is why despite all of my knowledge I am going to do the Skype counseling. I think that it is a worthy investment.

  25. I am loving this series HG.
    I didn’t believe she would come back at all but when I started reading you work I absolutely believed what you say in regards to the contract for life. I tell everyone she will be back. You have given me all the ammunition I need.
    It seems like so much work from my perspective but I can understand why you do it.
    I do not hide but there are many many places that I don’t show up because I know that’s playing with fire. I will never go to our local zoo because she has season passes and I would never go back to the bar we went to. I would rather be safe than sorry.
    I can find new places when I’m ready.
    I love your reminders.

    1. No I’m not!

      It is of course the case but I would never admit that in the real world and of course many of our kind cannot see it owing to the lack of awareness and the inherent defence mechanisms.

  26. HG, I do appreciate your work and dedication to enlightenment. One topic I would like to see you address, is how we can move on. How we heal the scars without thousands of dollars for therapy. Your insight has helped me realize the golden period was a fairytale and none of it was real. The horrors that have ensued are just as you explain. Mine was a lower midrange and I have escaped several times only to be drawn back to what I didn’t understand. Now that someone who is truly kind, loving, and normal has come into my life, it has been a challenge to undo the damage and allow love to happen. I believe you are much more than the Narc you present yourself to be on this site and have much more to offer to victim (or volunteer) recovery.

    1. Hello Exhausted, thank you for your kind words. What I do is provide you with the foundation for moving one, namely understanding. Until there is understanding of what you were/are in, everything else is pointless. You can only truly gain this from the disclosures by me. This understanding allows you to see why you were picked, what it is about you that drew you to us and us to you, why the things that happened did happen and so on. Once you have understanding I can then provide you with measures to remove yourself from our effect, counter our effects if you still have to interact and purge our effects from you.
      I see the process as essentially being three steps

      1. Understand
      2. Remove/counter/purge
      3. Heal

      With the last part you cannot begin until you have done 1 and 2 and sometimes doing 1 and 2 causes 3 to happen anyway. Some people need more in terms of actual treatment for PTSD etc arising from the entanglement or specific therapy to deal with certain issues. That is not my area. I am not a healer in that sense and accordingly some people, not all, may need to seek out additional assistance beyond what I provide. It is the case however that you will only gain parts one and two from me and may times I am told how this has assisted people without the massive expense they have previously incurred through therapy. I am not a therapist or psychologist, I just provide you with the inside knowledge from the perspective of a perpetrator but in so doing I give you material that is not available anywhere else.

      1. Its been helpful. In an unusual way which has been to let me back down with him, to let me stop fighting with him, to truly claim who I am andto accept reality. Odd how you can feel such love and want for someone who doesn’t even care about you.

      2. One question and if you address it elsewhere, why does the intensity of the cycles and abuse get worse when you ‘go back’, whether it’s in response to a hoover or to get the infamous closure? Although I have a sense, it doesn’t actually get worse. Just that some of the mechanisms that hid the abuse buffered it as well. And as you shed those mechanisms, the abuse stands out more. Or does it actually change and magnify? Depends on which of the three narcs the other is?

  27. HG, I have a situation and would like your input:). I’m heading to where the N lives this weekend unexpectedly for a funeral. The N knew the person and could be there as well. He knows I’m coming into town because of a mutal friend. I know he has a new primary and is in golden period. I did hear from him tonight saying he’s sorry for my loss, as he knew I would be upset. So is he going to Hoover while I’m in town or leave me alone since he’s love bombing the new target?? Ugh, so much to deal with. Thank you !!!!

    1. He already has hoovered you through the message/call. Your forthcoming attendance was a Hoover Trigger and the Hoover Execution Criteria was met because he contacted you.
      Your attendance will be a further Hoover Trigger and if you are in the same place as him then you are placing yourself in front of him during his golden period so there will be a Hoover which will either be a polite rebuff, a polite hello and little more (akin to his message) or he will ignore you (which is a malign hoover). He is not going to try and suck you back in because he has his new primary source and is in the golden period and is more likely to be polite owing to the needs of the facade (which is consistent with the hoover you have just had).

      1. It’s so bizarre to me. Recieved another message from the N, asking if I’ll be driving the car around town that drove 20 yrs ago. Why is he so fixated on the past? And you think him actually seeing me (it’s been 3 months), won’t trigger him to pursue, since he has a new primary? I’m not convinced lol. But I’ll go with what you’re saying, HG;).

  28. HG,
    You speak such truth here and I really appreciate your disclosure of the 12 yr break. This is consistent with my experience too. My ex husband who I left in 98 and my sons bio father who I left in 90 (when I was 20). My sons father was a lesser with little means to follow so distance solved the issue. Ex husband has the means and was likely a mixture of personality traits (not full NPD). He follows me to this day electronically. Now all benign hoovers but malign in the past. You are right, I keep doubting that my recent ex (full NPD midrange) will Hoover again. He did the day after xmas tho not after on other dates. I wonder HG why that is that I do this? It is usually about six weeks after the last Hoover attempt that I tend to start believing it was the last. Any ideas on this? As a therapist trained in trauma, the only thing I can think of is my mind trying to protect myself from future Contact and potentially abuse. Kind of like the amnesia that comes over us when we are exposed to repetitive abuse over and over . I’d love your theory on this too though.

    1. Why do you keep thinking it will be the last hoover? I think for most people it is a combination of not fully understanding our mindset when it comes to hoovers (although I accept you do) and also as Clarece pointed out, the desire for closure hence you want that final discard/contact/hoover. Accordingly, in your instance you want it to be final for closure and for the reasons you have advanced in your post.

      1. Last hoover can equate to closure in our mind on some level, even if there are unanswered questions, which most likely exist, giving us the courage and forcing us to forge ahead. It constantly throws us off our equilibrium when you keep reappearing. It messes with all the concepts of one returning out of real love or caring rather than just to get an emotional reaction from us. To us, you can get that from anyone else, especially the people you so enjoyed triangulating us with. We will deal with a final hoover, no matter how painful, based on our traits of how high we value our relationship investment by being devoted to one love and also our high esteem on honesty. I can learn to cope with anything if I’m given a true, honest answer. If all ties are to be severed, I can learn to deal with it, grieve and move on.
        We’re learning from you, that you never really want us to move on.
        Let’s take a corporate job setting for an example of closure. When people quit their job, there is a final day, good-byes are exchanged (closure) and you leave the place in your rear view mirror for good. You may be asked to give an Exit interview to share your experiences of employment and what you found positive or negative. You leave and start a new chapter of your life. We apply the same principles to any relationship if that helps clarify when we actually want to frame a final closure / hoover experience with you. It’s really that simple.

      2. Thank you HG.
        Clarece has a very good point on wishing for closure. Most healthy adults want closure in most things, particularly when relationships end. This is healthy. In my case, though, I am not sure seeking closure is at the heart of it. However, thank you Clarece, as I think this thought pointed me to what it might be for me personally :)…I block personal growth often with denial. This is one area I have a very large wall.
        I think I, like many others who tend to tango with those with narcissism (and other unhealthy relationship dynamics) tend to have attachment issues that are not fully resolved. This is mirrored in both the person with NPD and the partner. The person with NPD comes back, ends it, comes back. The partner does the same. Thus, this is why those with BPD (fear of abandonment particularly) make for repetitive tries and break ups. I think this is what is happening with me. No, I do not believe I have BPD though I do think I have traits of it, thus my understanding for those that do have it. I think..no scratch that…I know that I actually want him to hoover sometimes. Then, when he does I become scared (because I know he is not safe)…but this is the only dance I know. Man, I am a bit of a mess. Truth though. Hard for me to confess this. I want hoovers and I don’t want hoovers. At the same time. I don’t want him and I want him to want me. What the hell is that??????

        Ok, I feel a little better now that I confessed that dark secret.

        Thanks for the space. I still feel a bit crazy.

        ***opens Google search for a therapist**

  29. Hi HG. Hyperthtical please: N leaves stating “if I go I wont be back!”
    E, left in a puddle of tears waits for communication but it just doesnt come. Theres no responce from her one text to the N.
    So…Even though he said he wont be back, would the hoover happen later?

  30. Interesting. Very informative and right on time. Thank you HG. A Hoover happened only this evening after respite of 7 months. Thanks to having read this article earlier it lasted 3mins 14 seconds. Question for you HG – in your experience would a hoover ever result if considerable distance had to be travelled? eg to another country?

    1. You are welcome Allison. Yes of course, one can hoover through text message, social media posting, telephone call so one need not be physically proximate to the victim to hoover.

      1. Ha! So the Facebook post he made after I exposed some new information a few weeks ago saying “He didn’t want to hear about me” was a type of hover .. A negative one I don’t know the difference between the two, maybe? Hoe do you Not want to talk about someone but dedicate an entire post to it 😐 He also left a note on something he sent my daughter trying to discuss the car seat I balled it up and threw it right in the trash, nice try dude. 🙄

      2. I thought that may have been one, you are teaching me well HG! I’ve always associated his hoovers with him popping up with some weak apology, sad story about how he lost his job and it was my fault (AGAIN) or offering to take me to eat or give me money. I didn’t know there were negative ones as well. I typically do not dedicate time and space in my world to declare my disinterest in someone lol it came across as oxymoron-ish as there were several comments so clearly he Did want to discuss me 😂 but in his world I know what he did made sense.

  31. How come THIS part has been ME?! How many times has your victim done this as well?! Or some variations of “this is it!” I am starting to wonder about this whole cycle. But at least, this time I know why he accepted my recent DM, the darker motive, something I did not understand before. So what about your victims saying the same things?

    “It appears to be the case that people seem to think that there is some final flourish from us as we tell you that this time it is REALLY over and this time I mean it (although didn’t I say that last time?)”

  32. What are the chances of hoovering if he was not the one who initiated the breakup, I filed a restraining order which he violated and spent 3 days in jail and is not allowed within a 10 mile radius from my home. He was caught in the neighbors yard with binoculars, taking it to a whole other level! Is he really that controlling and crazy that he would take that chance of going to jail to hoover again or will he focus on new supply and leave me alone?

    1. If you escaped you will likely face an Initial Grand Hoover. It sounds like what he is doing now is part of that. Yes, some of our kind would take that chance for the sake of hoovering you.

      If the IGH has failed he is likely to seek out a new primary source but follow-up hoovers will occur when that primary source is devalued in accordance with the Hoover Trigger and the Hoover Execution Criteria.

      1. Many thanks, HG. My guess is he is focusing his efforts on a primary new source, but now my question is, how do I deal with the upcoming 2 court dates (for 2 separate violations of the restraining order)? My gut feeling is he will show up in court and try to destroy me since that is what he did when I filed the restraining order. He lied through his teeth to the judge – told him I WAS THE ONE WHO WAS ABUSIVE (the nerve) and then produced a picture of his face which had a chipped front tooth and said it was from when I decked him in the face (the truth is when I met him he had a chipped front tooth which I recommended my dentist fix). Anyway, I was asked to write an impact statement for court by the State’s Attorney. I am struggling with this because I don’t want to appear as a terrified victim (which is what he wants). How should I compose the impact statement that the court takes me seriously and holds him accountable for the violations without making myself look like a terrified victim? Again, thank you for your helpful responses.

  33. We believe there to be a “final discard” because we all believe in “closure” too. They go hand-in-hand. This is why you draw such a large audience. Healthy people try to not leave any loose ends or unresolved feelings lingering even it means expressing an unpleasant one.
    P.S. You do realize when you divulge that your longest Hoover happened after 12 years, you killed ever being able to convince us you’re in your 20’s again. I don’t think you hoovered someone from 5th or 6th grade. lol

    1. That is a very good point Clarece, thank you for that perspective. You want there to be a final discard albeit there is no such thing.

      Ha ha, but let us say my first hoover was when I was 14, then I would have hoovered when 26 so I may well still be in my 20s. Nice try!

      1. You’re welcome for that insightful morsel from our worldview!
        But that wasn’t your first Hoover, so nice try at giving a Math Story problem. Haha

      2. You are much older than 20+ HG. I bet 40-45. You are too mature and self-aware to be younger. And you are aging and you hate it. You wrote it somwhere. Not sure if you alter your voice during your recordings but this is another indicator of your age. This is fine. The age does not matter for brilliant elite narcissist. You will have enough of supply until you die. Unfortunatelly.

      3. I think are about 48. You recognized depeche mode lyrics in an earlier post/comment (can’t remember).

      4. So that means when you hoovered someone from 12 years ago, you were going back to Pre-school days!?
        I think not.
        Change that 1 back to a 4. As in 48. Lol

      5. Oh that’s right…49 and still fine. Not quite 1/2 century old yet…

      6. How’s our favorite devil today?

        42, look at you! *paired with me doing an effeminate hand gesture and hip sway*
        41, brighter than the sun?
        44, shut the front door?
        45, and after all that you’re still alive?
        I know you will not divulge, but it’s fun!

      7. 18! Married at 15, huh? College at 12! Ok Doogie Houser!😂😂😂

      8. You forgot it was a joke! **sticks tongue out**
        Plus, being in your 40’s is nothing to be down about. I mean, you are in great company. Just look at the Canadian Prime piece of loveliness! He makes 45 look oooooo so good. I am sure you do too!
        Own it, strut it, 40’s rule!
        (Not that you need a reminder to strut!)
        *Cue, John Travolta strut in Staying Alive*

      9. Hey Indy!!!!
        I loved that show.
        That made me happy to read that.😂

      1. I’m curious… why do you think that?
        I don’t know if that old? It’s hard for me to picture a 60-year old getting tickets to see Depeche Mode 3 times in this coming fall.
        30’s? No way though!

      2. Narcs are vain… he is not going to reveal his real age! They will LIE and DENY! Come on, we should all know this by now, lol!

      3. Oh I know. It adds a bit of levity and fun around such deep topics. Besides his reactions are funny the closer the age is guessed around 50’s or (gasp) 60’s.

      4. Sounds like someone is ready for their afternoon nap! Seniors love their naps!

      5. In order for this blog to work conveying the information that he does, it is the one arena in his life he does not lie. It’s up to each of us how to gauge that and interact with him.
        It would become exhausting trying to decipher if only articles about Narc behavior for each school and cadre are true, but personal questions about his life or actions could all be lies. The longevity and success of this blog depends on truthfulness here. He knows it. The doctors know it. If he doesn’t want to answer a question, he bypasses it or just gives a vague, caveman type answer about it. That’s how I personally operate here. But I completely respect your viewpoint to be guarded.

      6. Lolll!
        I know you’re not a caveman, but when you get a very lengthy question or collection of questions and just reply with, “No”, “Indeed”, “Correct”, it’s a bit Tarzan-esque.
        Yes, I’m aware you have hundreds of questions to answer every single day.
        Just sayin’…

      7. I would say he is very old, yet His body is not of a sixty year old.
        I would say between 36-40. Gives enough time to accomplish what he has.

      8. If he were young he wouldn’t be online so much. A narcissist of his caliber would be elsewhere living the high social life pursuing a dozen targets at a time. No time to write, and record it on video.

      9. All the narcissists that I know barely sleep.. it made me feel lazy that I needed 11 hours in my twenties, 9 in my thirties.. oops I just realized I’d be revealing my age here… 😮
        So I’ll just stop here…

      10. My Greater was 36 and very apt at accomplishing many things at one time.
        His mind was much older due to knowledge and experience, always had some kind of device on his person and he never slept.
        Just in the hours we need to sleep and they don’t, many things can be accomplished. Writings are just one thing.

  34. HG I am not sure what has really happened here and if this is part of it. Let me give you a scenario and see what you can interpret it as.

    3 years ago he filed for divorce. No explanation just got the papers. He was still living with me but in an apt that we have in our home. He was having an affair but wouldn’t move out. Yet he would leave very loudly so I New he was going to see her at like 4 am. I finally kicked him out. He followed through with the divorce but not really. He refused to turn in any kind of information. No financials, no job info. Nothing. He got 3 contempts of court for not turning anything in. He was forced to pay my legal fees but will not. What is the reason that he would make it so hard to get divorced when he was the one that wanted it in the first place? Is that a devalue because you are not worth the effort?

    1. He didn’t really want the divorce but he started so as to devalue you and also to be the one in control (hence why he did not file relevant financial disclosure etc). By starting it but not progressing it he has something hanging over you and in some instances might then hoover you and say “Look I will drop the divorce and we can try again” thus appearing to be generous and benevolent.

      1. Mine pre-empted my police report by having an officer meet with him, hear “his side” (who knows what he made up), and attempting to make me sound like a perpetrator of some sort. He left the name blank. This made him appear “generous and benevolent”, while it also protected him. When I arrived, an officer told me that one of us was lying, and to “think real hard” before filing charges, because they would “prosecute to the fullest whichever one” of us was lying. When it was established that I told the truth, he was the liar, they did nothing to prosecute him because he hadn’t “officially” filed anything, since he did not give them my name. Time will tell if that worked against him in the long run. If he does that again in the same police department, sirens should go off.

  35. Beautifully stated H.G.! Somehow because my ex was so convincing in all that he said and did it is easy to believe that there will be no more hoovers. You are right though, to stay vigilant is to be safe. Thanks again for these wonderful articles!

  36. It makes me scream to say this, but thank you for telling me straight what is happening and what I need to do. I cannot stand that this person will cease to exist in my life only when he or I have dies. Spit out every swear word and make up some more. They will never cover it.
    I am quite proud of one thing though..I have maintained no contact. I know it is eating him up like acid on flesh. And damn if they dont make me smile. Because I know the pain he is in is a million times more painful and toxic than I will ever endure. I hold one thing close. I know this heart. I know how amazing I am. It may take me some time. But I will never concede and wound another heart the way he has wounded mine. Presently I do not believe there are people to trust. Yet somewhere in all those thoughts I know there is. I would not be taking the time to thank a narcissist if all was lost.
    Dear god, I am finding me.

  37. HG you are correct as usual. They will always hoover. I was reading that some narcissists will not continually get new partners, but in time will have enough to cycle through and will instead of getting new, will make tge rounds with the same ones. Do you agree with that assessment?

    1. Absolutely! That’s their return on investment working for them. Stick with what they know and have a comfort level with.

  38. Maybe he comes back to hoover some day…. It does not matter any more. All I expect is evil. A benign hoover will not be responded, a malign hoover I am prepared emotionally. That will be no shock anymore. Thank God, he is not violent to women, so there is no danger for me that way. I “only” have to look at the wheels or the brakes of my car. I know that. If there was a mysterious car crash some day, I asked my colleagues to inform the police. That is the way he works. Clean hands! Thank God, my colleagues believed me and promised to do that. At the moment he is busy with his new primary source…He could not show me that he is happy with her.There was no opportunity for him. He will try to do that. I know him inside out. That man was such a waste of lifetime. How could I have positive feelings for such a creature?

  39. This shit really sucks. I’d give anything to end this torture forever.
    I hate him. Every day I wake up hating him more and these things you write don’t always help. I can’t see and end to this. I can’t take this. I am furious about this.
    It makes no sense, why can’t you just get on with your life and all your other women you have? Why?

  40. Ah but what if you marry and,she,sells her assets to come from a distance to live with you?,would you ever contact us if heretofore we,were just supplying text fuel? I do not think this man would divorce; he wants a forever relationship. And after she leaves him she,always returns.

  41. I exposed nex and went to the police after he trashed my place. I can’t explain why but he sucked me back within days. From his pov it was to avoid consequenses for his actions I think.

    Last discard I exposed him again, not as a narcissist though. More as a cry for help. Weird. But that one is on me.

    HG if your primary supply exposes you AND is aware of who you are, it must be harder to initiate a hoover no?

    I broke NC in a typical Empath way. That one is on me again, dammit.
    I told him I understand why he does what he does and says what he says. That his darkside doesn’t scare me and never has. That I know who he is.
    I was talking to another narc in treatment and when I told her what I wrote, she turned white. LOL.

    I know her answer. But if someone would say these words to you, what would your initial thought Be? Is it frightening to know some of is Empaths/healers look beyond the darkness and see all the hurt underneath?

    1. If the primary sources exposes us this usually raises the bar for the Hoover Execution Criteria.

      If someone said those words to me who was the primary source I would smile, tell you that you had no idea and make a mental note to proceed in a cautious but effective manner given your awareness.

      1. HG you actually made me laugh for the first time in a long time, in a good way.

        I think Empaths are underestimated by your kind as well. You might smile and say I have no idea. But that works the other way around too.
        MLK spoke these words, you know the ones I speak of.

        Anyway. Thanks again for the insight .

      2. I can almost guarantee my ex narc will never hoover again after i left him years ago and he stalked and harassed me for 9 hellish months,he ended up screwing up two other women after me and is now married! It has been 4 silent years and im blocked from all his stuff lol. He blocked me when i havent even contacted him. I know he blocked me so i cant see his life or try to contact his newbie wife,but he would be stupid to think I couldnt possibly get a hold of her. Of course she isnt worth getting a hold of cause to me she is his new victim and he aint hoovering me. I have had 4 silent years to work on myself again from his nightmarish bullshit he pulls. I knew who and what he was about and he hated that i knew he was a narc. My issue is i cant be duped if i already know the game. I am thankful he got married and found his new source of interest. 2 years hes been married and im sure he is just dying to fuck someone elses life up while he is with his wife. She is an exact repleca of his ex wife that he despised! Funny thing is we all have the same first names lol. What is up with him always finding the same named women?

      3. Lmao ok better to say I guarantee he wont hoover!

        There’s been 4 Jennifer’s so what is so good about that type of apppliance as you called it? What is the pull on names? He has had other women,but jesus he keeps marrying or having affairs with Jennifer’s? His ex wife and I are friends lol and now we laugh at the expense of his new wife since we now know he is just playing and using her like a fiddle like he did with us. For once we aint getting involved to try and save her. We figure if we leave him be,then he wont bother us lol. Yeah i stupidly laugh in the face of this fucker,cause he is a dumb and obvious narc.

        Ty for responding!

  42. I suspect he is lurking and watching. My estranged husband is staying with me while I try to recover and get my life back in order so apart from his initial rage over my husband being back in my life (and the death threats to go along with it) and his admonishing me for contacting an ex and spilling his secrets (as it turns out she wasn’t an “ex” he was talking to her our entire relationship) and telling me to never contact his friends or exes again I am pretty certain another hoover attempt will be made when my husband goes back on the road for work and I again become a sitting duck. I have been no contact just over a month now but I am feeling uneasy. Some times I sit and contemplate what awful thing I can do to him to make sure he stays gone forever. I am sure I will come up with something if need be. For now, I wait and plan.

    1. Knowing they sit outside your windows watching is freaky. But, keep In mind how many others he hoovers too, just like his ex. My narc pulled one back in after 10 years, even though he had two of us at the time.

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