The Pursuit of Revenge


I know you hate me. Your kind are filled with love and then filled with hate. There is no need to deny it. It is a normal reaction for someone like you and one which I entirely endorse and encourage. I know you will try and mask that burning anger that you feel by saying you pity me or that you have nothing but contempt for me but I can see it. Those sensational eyes of yours that once blazed with desire, passion and most of all hope, are now filled with the churning, billowing flames of hatred. Some of you will fight to contain this sensation. You fear that by giving in to this hatred that you will somehow be on a level with me. I can ease your fears in that regard. You are nowhere near my level and nor were you. I placed you far higher than me to begin with. Yes it was artificial and all part of my design but you had no complaint then did you? You did not object or demur when I thrust you skywards and planted you no that pedestal. Of course you did not. Who would? Nobody would and least of all somebody like you. Now you are on your true level, way down below me, cast onto stony ground, broken and shattered. Amazing though isn’t it how you managed to summon such an anger from somewhere. How many times had you said to your confidantes that you felt numb (yes they were reporting back to me). Yet now look at you. A seething, glowering fireball of hatred and it is all directed at me. I adore this.

You want to destroy me. I know you do. You all do. The one before you was exactly the same as the one before was and the one before her. The next one will be just the same,although I do still hold out some hope that she might just be different and somehow avoid the mistakes all those who have gone before have made. I have seen this hatred many times and your desire for revenge is strong. Of course it is. I made it this way. Everything I did as I brought you down low was programmed to cause you to eventually explode into hatred. From elation to despair, through broken to numb. Eventually the switch would be flicked and as puppet master I ignite the fire beneath you which stokes the flames of hatred. Despise me, go on, do it. Send those wicked words towards me. Tell me what a bastard I am. Keep it coming. Pull you hair, wave your fist and stamp your feet. Tell me how you are going to scratch my car. Feels good does it not? Believe me, it feels even better being on the receiving end of your bile and hate. Go on, sit with your friends and plot your revenge, I can feel you all huddled around your cauldron as you try and concoct ways at getting back at me. I feel so powerful knowing you are focussed on seeking retribution. This is what I want. I want to bask in the heat of your anger, I want to be covered in the disgust and distaste that you will spew towards me. I want you scheming, hatching and planning. By hurting you do deeply I plant inside you that overwhelming desire to get even with me. It happens every time and is all part of my master plan to ensure you, my beautiful appliance keep pouring fuel in my direction. I make you seek revenge for in doing so, your planning and ham-fisted execution of the same give me what I want. Fuel. You are blinded with your hatred so that you fail to realise you will not succeed in gaining revenge, not by shouting, spitting and scratching. Oh no, this overload of howling anger is just a banshee of fuel to me. I will twist and shift as I thwart your attempts, laughing at your pathetic efforts to try and get one over on me. This will spur you on as I lead you on yet another merry dance as I continue to take from you exactly what I need. So please, seek your revenge. You will not get it but I will be delighted seeing you try.

319 thoughts on “The Pursuit of Revenge

  1. Al Anon says:

    HG I love the sample of the Revenge book so far, but I’ve found quite a few little typos especially in #2.The Core Principle. Will you be correcting it? Thank you for your work.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      The typos do crop up and I do need to set aside some time (ha!) to address those. Pleased you are finding the content useful.

      1. MB says:

        Maybe, just maybe now that you’re charging more for the consults you could hire a loyal reader minion to proofread all the new material 😉

        Good for you increasing prices, HG! I’ve always said you were worth more. Still way less than therapy and much more effective although it does present a problem in my budget. Oh well, I can cut out some trips to the grocery…gotta leave room in the budget for the essentials! Ha ha jk

  2. Beloved says:

    No H.G.,
    We don’t.
    We are really that different from “your kind.” This is where cold cognitive empathy fails. You can’t understand this…it is foreign to you. If we have hatred, it eventually turns into something else. Hatred for those who harm our children- yes, in a way….but there is still pity, compassion, for many of us. This why are are a different sort than you. And many of us eventually forgive. Love does win and I’m sorry that you are able to feign it but never truly enter in. And yes, love does make you weak and vulnerable. It is worth the risk.

    I love your writing, and have a large library of your books. However, I wonder how your life (and ours as we watch from the sidelines) would be different if you and your therapists decided to become one of the few people who recovered from a Cluster B disorder. If you were to seek whatever necessary to value others as yourself. Even at the cost of a spiritual quest. You’ve done the dance a million times…you’ve destroyed lives. You’re bored, never satisfied….you have a disorder that is considerd incurable….what if it’s not? What if they’re wrong? Don’t you have the intellect and strength of will to attempt a new path?

    The standard answer is that you cannot change because you believe yourself to superior to others, and not in need of change. But, what if that presumption is inaccurate…you are actually equal to others. And the superiority “complex” is a delusion or form of self-protection from shame or an attachment trauma? What if you are actually wasting your life with this stuff?
    I’m wondering who you’d be, without this thing running through your character and thinking…?

    Just a thought and I’m interested to hear your response.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I would not exist without this “thing” running through my character and my thinking. Thank you for sharing your opinion, it is always interesting to read these differing perspectives. I understand what you state with regard to the fact that my superiority may be a delusion, it has been mentioned before. I have also been told that I do not see things about myself because of what I am. Logically, I grasp that, but I also do not accept it because I know my superiority is based on many achievements and brilliance.

      1. Lori says:

        I believe everything you said above HG and understand it perfectly. Therapists say you can recover fully from codependency but I call bullshit on that. it’s part of my personality. I can cognitively know that’s it’s not healthy behavior, but do not really accept it. I don’t think codependency, Narcissism or other cluster b disorders are “curable”. what I do think is that the symptoms and behaviors can be managed to a certain degree

    2. Al says:

      @ Beloved- you have good points there-The superiority complex is a delusion and a form of self-protection. It stems from the psycho-narcs LOW INFERIORITY complex, and the continual fear of being sub-standard to others.

      The psycho-narc invents (imagines) a character that is better than what they know they are- they incorporate personality traits and behavior patterns from others they feel are above them in development (which is most of the world they have come into contact with) and form a delusional self around this character.

      The delusion is then repeated to themselves such as “I am brilliant’ in the hope that the delusion is b can be include into themselves. They will advise others of their brilliance to see if others believe the delusion as well. I am sure you have heard of “ if you tell yourself a lie for long enough, you begin to believe it”? Well that is the psycho-narc.

      However, when they see the delusional self comes into conflict with the truth-what others know or find out about them, or they face the reality of their own truth (that is they come to the point they dont believe the delusion any longer themselves), that is when they crash and burn-go into deep depression, isolate themselves, and then try to reform a new imaginary self, once again formed on others characters and traits that they see as being superior to their own.

      As Einstein said “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting a different response”.

      There is NO psych-narc in this world who believes they are superior to others- it is all smoke and mirrors until the delusional self can no longer be maintained. That is why they cannot maintain therapy-they know that at some stage, they will have to admit to their own delusions. If they really believed that they were superior or brilliant, they would maintain that belief on a continual basis throughout therapy-instead of stopping after 3 or 4 sessions.

      1. HG Tudor says:

        No, therapy is not maintained because it is either seen as unnecessary (Lesser) or the narcissist has achieved his or her aim from it (usually to maintain the facade, prove a point to the victim and use the experience to his or her advantage – Mid Range) or our brilliance is such we see the advantage in utilising what is learned to hone ourselves further (Greater).

  3. kenneth says:

    . Hello Superxena
    Just because HG has a dark side doesn’t mean that he can not be polite, helpful and understanding.

    1. superxena says:

      Hello Kenneth!
      I think you read the wrong post. HG has always been very polite and understanding during all consultations! Please see below!

      APRIL 22, 2017 AT 4:47 PM
      Hello Twilight!
      Yes,that is exactly what I meant: despite HG’s side that has been LABELLED as ” darker”he has always been very polite,helpful and understanding in all our engagements!

  4. strongerwendy says:

    Remember, he’s nice if it acquires fuel. He is a very effective unit.

  5. HG…. I used to be afraid of you.
    I liked your message….. but i was terrified of you because of who you are and what you represented and how your kind of person devastated my life and soul….
    But..i must say….. you are Nice. Despite who you are.
    I’m not afraid of you. I guess you are that good. 😉
    And I’m getting stronger. ..
    Its weird.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I am an effective unit.

      1. Twilight says:

        Sorry everytime I see a reference of unit it makes me think of a machine, and I do not see you as such. Effective yes, machine no!
        I did not say this to offend, just my opinion.

        And now I will go back to my studying and be quiet 🤐

  6. W.E.B. says:

    I read your book, REVENGE. Probably not going to act on it because I try to avoid thinking about my ex-narc if at all possible and going down that rat hole would painfully mess with my head too much at this point. I’ve more constructive things I MUST focus on. Wouldn’t revenge feed into ever presence which you strongly advised to avoid along with no contact (i.e. ripping the scab off of the wound)?
    Would the tactics you recommend work on you? If not, then why are we to believe they would work on other narcs?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Yes it would feed into ever presence so Revenge should only be addressed by those who feel strong enough to deal with that. As I have written Revenge is not for everybody.
      Yes they would work on me but you would have a fight on your hands.

      1. superxena says:

        HG..I have read your book Revenge several times…Do you think then that “being strong ” is the only condition for a succesful revenge campaign? Please correct me if I am wrong: as I understood it from your book the first condition for a succesful revenge would be FIRST attaining FREEDOM.Freedom described as not having ABSOLUTELY NO EMOTIONAL attachments to the narc( no love,hatred,nothing NADA). That would meet the CORE PRINCIPLE: not reacting. But wouldn’t it be hatred enough motivation for doing this?
        You stated : ..”Revenge is not for everyone”… Who would meet the requirements for a succesful revenge campaign?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Thank you for reading.
          You have to have a particular robustness, strength of character and resolve to apply The Revenge Campaign. If you feel hatred you are likely to provide fuel and thus breach the Core Principle. Dispassionate and clinical malice is a useful driving force, but most people on your side of the fence do not have that. Instead, you need to ensure you are strong, not wanting to or feeling susceptible to want to be with the narcissist, not care about the impact of The Revenge Campaign. If you have any doubt that it is for you, then it is not.
          There will however be a third way which I shall be revealing for dealing with the narcissist which is an alternative to No Contact or The Revenge Campaign.

          1. superxena says:

            HG! Thank you for your answer! Wow…are you opening a new path by giving an alternative with dealing with the narcissist ? That sounds very mean dealing with the narcissist post-escape/ post- disengaged? Are you revealing it with a new book or article? When?
            Do I ( we) have to wait long( again)??

          2. HG Tudor says:

            It can be post escape, post dis-engage, whilst entangled – it is a MOAB.
            It will be a book, far too much dynamite to pack into an article.

          3. superxena says:

            Wow! It sounds GREAT! I have the feeling it will detonate strongly!! When is it coming out? I want to read it first!!!

          4. HG Tudor says:

            No release date yet.

          5. superxena says:

            Well..if it is a MOAB it has perhaps to be dropped at the right moment…But as I am always rushing things:Could you give some clues/ hints about the contents?? Please….

          6. Twilight says:

            Patience is a virtue. I do understand, thou, knowledge is the one thing I can never get enough of. Patience is the first to go when I know information is just within reach yet not quite attainable.

            HG dangling tasty tid bits of information.

          7. superxena says:

            Nice to hear from you:) I hope you are fine…Yes,,you are right , patience is a virtue..I am always in a rush ,eager of knowledge..specially concerning this topic…but I know I have to learn to be more patient ..yes.. he is just giving small ” doses “of information about certainly awakens curiosity.
            By the way: I like your comment about HG defining himself as just :” an effective unit”. He is a very effective unit( like a machine) but in my opinion that is just a part of him…he is much more than that …but I won’t keep on saying it…so I will stay …silent 🙂

          8. Twilight says:

            How you doing? Yes I am good 😊! I am the same when it comes to knowledge. He has awaken many curiosities within me.
            My opinion runs the same, he is very effective and holds much more then many realize. I have made it very clear my thoughts of him already, and have laughed when told my admiration would make me a target.
            Silence many times is best…..people believe what they want, for me I believe the energy behind the words.

          9. superxena says:

            Hello Twilight!
            Good to know you are all right! I am fine..thank you. Experiencing for the first time in many years a feeling of relief…accompanied with some other feeling difficult to define: feeling ” strange”.

            This site has helped me to tie up the loose ends: I have put my ex Greater in a box( call it school). I have shaken ,opened,closed,the box several times…now I feel I have sealed the box and finally wrapped it!

            You do not need to clarify…I understand what you mean by ” awakened curiosities”. Good to hear about regaining things that you thought were lost…For me one thing ( of many) that has been awakened was my devotion to piano which I thought was dead. I have resumed my piano playing and I find it very rewarding!

            If you were told by him that this admiration would make you a target…I should be weary:if admiration turns to be infatuation…There is a very,very thin thread between the two..

            So let us keep it in admiration….well as far as me is concerned….
            Yes, I do believe as well on the energy between the words which I can sense…but then again I am a ( naive) believer

          10. Twilight says:

            Hello Superxena
            So glad to hear your doing good! And sounds like you are well on your road to putting him behind you. Lol I may have gotten over mine, yet he seems to be testing my patiences. I am amused thou my silence is getting to him.
            It was another person on the blog that warned me, I am well aware what attracts them.
            It took me a longtime before I would go into the woods afterwards, now it is my favorite pastime. I have been reading up on different mushrooms and thinking about seeing if I can find any, yet I don’t believe I feel comfortable enough to try any. Finding some would be exciting thou.
            Has it warmed up there? I remember you stating is was snowing.

          11. superxena says:

            Hello Twilight!
            The weather is good now. I woke up to a shinny and sunny morning here in Stockholm. The weather has been very erratic here though. The temperature could drop easily..but it seems that Spring is here now.
            The energy we feel behind the words I call it MAGNETISM. I am amazed about the way he transmits it through this blog with words only. He is certainly good at it. Well , words are one of many of their weapons so…Could you imagine facing that magnetism in person? It would be lethal…

            I think he has warned us many about this admiration…It is good to be aware of it..What do you mean by you having been warned before about this by other bloggers too?

            Sometimes I wonder if he really is considering to take another more “readapted ” path. I never get a straight answer to this question that I have asked several times. I hope he does…

            LOL…you made me laugh about you “going into the woods” again. I have also entered into the woods again( actually dragged in there by a very muscular mushroom lol) but I see my journey in the woods with other eyes now. More cautious and actually “scanning ” all the mushrooms… There are quite a few very toxic…and some lethal.It is not my favourite pastime but is a pleasant and exciting one.There are many that seem to be nice.I have the book Red Flags printed in my head now( just being little ironic ;). I will take the time I need in deciding if there is someone out there that could be something for me..
            By the way,talking about entering the woods: Have you read his article : ” If you go into the woods”?
            Wishing you the best!

          12. Twilight says:

            Hello Superxena

            Springtime can definitely be a chaotic change. Lol I have never needed a weather man, I have a sense of when change is brewing. We had a wicked thunderstorm last night, seemed to have fit my mood.

            I do agree with you and the magnetism behind his words. Yes words are their weapons. Yes I can imagine facing that magnetism in person…. lethal, to many yes….
            I do not fear, I hold no disillusion as to what he is capable of doing either.

            Have you read the rules?
            I voiced my admiration towards HG, just a person dealing with many demons made the comment I would be bait. I hope they find peace within.
            Ok your description of being dragged into the woods by a muscular mushroom made me laugh, sorry imagery.
            Yes nature can teach many lessons if one listens. The most beautiful plant or animal can be the deadliest. Man has moved so far from nature and has forgotten many things.
            Yes I have actually read all of his blog entries and books.
            Where there is darkness there will be light. There can not be one with out the other.
            Peace be with you!

          13. superxena says:

            Hello Twilight!

            I read again the five ” unknown” rules and the other rules that prevail on this blog. I understand what you mean: it was not nice to say you would be a ” bait” just for expressing your admiration to his work. In that case…just by reading the comments of other bloggers…there are many potential baits.. But I do not think this is the aim of this work.
            Well, I can say that I am not afraid of him…I have had several e-mail and audio consultations and he has helped me to put my ex-Greater finally in the “box”. He has always been very polite and helpful. I have not experienced his dark side just for the simple reason that I have not got close enough in his Fuel Matrix. He has accepted the fact that he could be lethal …but then again since I am not near enough : I won’t be exposed to it…
            Speaking about nature: sometimes it feels though like the moth that is always attracted to the flame..if you get close enough you will be burned..
            Concerning darkness and light: I personally do not believe in the coexistence of light and darkness. Since darkness is connotatively defined as a lack of visible light….
            Nice to know you laughed about the ” muscular mushroom”…
            Best wishes!!

          14. Twilight says:

            Hello Superxena

            Let’s just say I have known those that work within a darker realm, so I am very familiar with what he could do.

            With that being said, just because he has this darker side doesn’t mean he isn’t polite and helpful. He has always been polite and helpful when we have spoken. The fact is he understands what I have been through, most empaths wouldn’t be able to comprehend what it was like for me. I have been accused of exaggerating to which is why I never speak of things. I am not talking about my entanglement with my greater, that was but the surface of things for me.
            You can not have dark with out light it isn’t a matter of coexistence, it is a matter of balance.
            No it wasn’t nice to be called bait, yet in the way they insinuate was amusing to me.
            Peace be with you!

          15. superxena says:

            Hello Twilight!
            Yes,that is exactly what I meant: despite HG’s side that has been LABELLED as ” darker”he has always been very polite,helpful and understanding in all our engagements!

            Sorry to hear that you have been accused of exaggerating
            and I hope you still feel the right to express yourself!

            Thank you for sharing your perception about darkness and light,although we differ , we are looking at the same thing but from different perspectives. I am always willing to get to know different perspectives not meaning automatically accepting them though.

            After all, isn’t it what this is all about? : different perspectives?
            Best wishes !

          16. Twilight says:

            Hello Superxena

            Just because HG has a dark side doesn’t mean that he can not be polite, helpful and understanding. He has no empathy to which doesn’t change any of the other amazing qualities he has. I believe we agree.

            I can still express myself, usually I am quite. I will ask if I am not sure, misunderstanding and misinterpretation are always the root cause in most situations.

            I have found many people believe they have been through worse then anyone, in many regards this is true because for them it is the worse thing and you can not compare things. Everyone one of us has a different perspective to what is good and what is bad.

            Thank you for sharing your views, understanding different perspectives and accepting them don’t always have to happen.
            Peace be with you!

          17. superxena says:

            *TYPO* I used the wrong word..I meant I should be CAUTIOUS instead of ” WEARY”!!

          18. Twilight says:

            I understood what you meant

          19. Twilight says:

            Just to be clear on my curiosities, knowledge, rekindling my love for books, and something I put down a longtime ago believing I would never desire it again.

          20. superxena says:

            One question I wanted to ask you several times before but I could not place it anywhere on the blog..except under this article.
            Now..when I am for the first time experiencing the feeling of being FREE ( after 6 years of formal relationship as a IPPS and 15 months of No Contact): why don’t I feel happy? I was expecting to feel overjoyed..but the only feelings I find is perhaps relief and a feeling of being ” strange”? It feels “strange” why do you think it is like that?

          21. HG Tudor says:

            Because relief is going to be the governing emotion rather than happiness in situations such as these.

          22. superxena says:

            Good morning HG!

            Do you mean the feelings of relief as of a person that has been kept HOSTAGE and been released?

          23. HG Tudor says:

            That is an apt way of describing it yes.

  7. Broken says:

    Revenge a dish best served “hot” 🤣 Waiting for the result of it … nothing bad just had a weak moment when I got some insight of misconduct and criminal activity. Thank you for the Revenge book.. fab ideas. Although I did it a while ago and now waiting for the result … it will ruin him once and for all.
    I might have come across as a nice person and I still am, but don’t you try to walk away and pretend anymore…. it’s coming your way! And I will sit here and laught …

  8. High Octane Fuel says:

    Are there any Narcs out there who are NOT bisexual?? Sounds like all of them on this thread are and both of my Narcs were too. HG, do you also swing both ways? Or are there any Narcs on here who are just heterosexual?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I am heterosexual.

    2. Windstorm says:

      Most of my narcs – male and female – are very homophobic. Just the idea of someone they know being bi makes them very nervous and they would disassociate themselves from that person. But that is also the prevailing opinion here in the Bible Belt. If they were bi and let it be known, they would be exposed to public ridicule – something men especially seem allergic to.

  9. Entertainment says:

    Okay, repost/ comments from me July 2016
    JULY 25, 2016 AT 12:42 AM
    I knowing all this about Narcs/ Social paths. With realisation/awakening and I am still asleep; stuck somewhere mid air. Do I seek revenge? Knowing there’s no real revenge. Do, I move on in fear? with little expectations of having a happily ever after because of my inability to trust and will suspect everyone of being this type. In this case too much knowledge can be an hindrance to living a healthy lifestyle.

    HG, you should have responded 10 months ago. Maybe, the fascination of castration would be mute. I am learning and if not I am a narc.

  10. Ok HG amd blog community….i would oblige your opinions…
    Here’s the back story…
    My 9 year old has had 6 cases of strep throat in 9 months.
    Of my 4 kids-3 are carriers of strep which means they carry it but have no symptoms and my 1 is not a carrier but is the 1 that gets strep all the time.
    We have seen the family dr (dr. Hulesch) and 2 ENT specialist drs (ear, nose and throat).
    Both ENT drs advised to take tonsils out and it will decrease strep frequency.
    Primary care dr- dr hulesch was kinda middle of the road and more ambiguous. He said- he might out grow it, he might not. There are risks to surgery. But if he keeps getting strep all the time then all the antibiotics are not good for him. But he was not opposing him getting his tonsils out either.
    So, that’s the foundational back story.
    My position is do whats best for my kid……professional opinion seems to be pointing to get his tonsils out. Very common surgery despite the risks.
    My ex narcs position is of course….opposite and miserable.
    This is his response back to me when i asked him where he stood on our sons situation since the 2 specialist drs recommended his tonsils to come out.
    This was his response….

    (( Like dr. Hulesch stated when we saw him, he would like to have all the cases documented by his office. So there’s consistency and not any ambiguity going to different clinics IE. Walgreens Walmart immediate care.

    I do not think at this time surgery is needed at this time and the risks that are involved in surgery. I think a change in hygiene practices not sharing toothbrushes cups ECT. like dr. Hulesch stated will help first.))

    Of course…..when i read this…..i was crazed! Bc u know how narcs are. The insults, lies, twists, accusations, blameshift, projection, making you look like something you are not, profiling you to be incompetent… all that….is right here in his response. But what do i do? How do i respond? Or do i?

    Initially, he has claimed i have not documented these cases of strep. So i gave him documentation.
    He claims i don’t take him to reputable medical centers. However, The places i take him to are very reputable and associated with the hospital.
    He’s insinuating dirty and incompetent hygiene of my kids, that they are kids w no manners… however, i assure you my kids and their dental and overall hygiene are quite up to par…. especially dental hygiene…..i kinda have a thing for good, clean teeth. And my ex narc knows that so that’s why he’s saying what he’s saying.
    Not to mention he is twisting the dr- dr huleschs words….he never said what my ex is claiming he said….
    I don’t want to write back emotionally (bc “writing” through this court appointed app is the only way we communicate…and that’s fine) …
    i don’t want to be on the defensive.. . With my hygiene habits for the kids….
    I dont want to pick apart the inaccuracies of what he is saying and claiming what the dr said…
    I don’t want to defend the truth against his made up lies to Make me look bad… bc the kids never share toothbrushes….. despite what he says….
    My ex narc even said to the dr at a recent appt that our son sometimes uses his dads toothbrush…and i was shocked bc i know this is not true…. and so i asked our son right in front of the dr and my ex…. “Nathaniel, do you use your dads toothbrush? ” and Nathaniel was as appalled as me and was like no! I don’t know what he’s talking about.

    So…..HG and blog community… what say you?
    How should i respond to my ex narc message?

    Consequently, if my son, Nathaniel, gets strep anytime soon…. and if i want to press him getting his tonsils out…i will have to take the matter to court. I would like to think it would rule in my favor…. but for the love of God…..i cannot stand the hassle…. or the money spent.
    Of course…the narcs do love the hassle…that’s why I’m in this predicament.
    So???? Anyone ? Anyone? Insight?

    1. Entertainment says:

      I feel so sorry for your situation, I have heard horror stories about coparenting with a narc. He will always be in opposition with you whether it’s for the good of the child or not.
      I am not a doctor but I waited until later in life to have mine removed and it was painful. I have heard the younger the better and that the risks are pretty low. I have yet to regain full use of my voice or taste buds.
      I am not an attorney, but for the sake of the child is would get the ball rolling legally for the kid.
      There’s no reasoning with a narc, I think we all can agree. Good Luck and best wishes.

    2. MLA - Clarece says:

      All communication over this needs to remain in writing for a paper trail.
      I deal with similar confrontations with my ex-husband over my daughter’s schoolwork. She struggles in two subjects and because he was an educator and now a principal (and dealing with the Common Core Curriculum in our state) it’s like I have no voice on knowing anything.
      I would recommend being proactive and getting back in with your primary care physician and pinning him down on a firm game plan and also asking him to put something in writing to you. You need to explain to him and his nurse that in your situation for their patient (your son) that’s how it has to be if a surgery is to be considered to get parental consent from both sides with little confrontation or hassle.
      Is your son having repeated cases back to back or is it possible for him to ride it out for another 6 months, 12 months and see if he comes down again? It is possible to get him on supplements that will boost his immune system to help him fight getting strep again?
      Is the issue with your ex not wanting the surgery because he pays for the children’s medical expenses and a surgery co-pay could be pretty steep?
      The opinions from the different doctors needs to be streamlined and come from one doctor with a game plan and time line for how soon or how long your son can go before having tonsils removed is the absolute best option. Work with the doctor(s) first and fill your ex in last.

      1. MLA…i was doing more things on my own…. and he called me out on it…. because it’s a violation of our parenting agreement …. equal say in medical needs of kids…. i essentially got punished for not including him in every single dr appt in mediation. He got the kid 2 extra weeks this summer only. I don’t see the correlation but thats what happened…..i now have to work around his schedule and my 4 kids and mine when even scheduling drs appts….
        Can u say control?
        The irony is…he will drive an hour from where he lives for a 15 min dr appt… but won’t take his son to bball games or practices on “his parenting time. ”
        He’s such a bad dad. It’s all a show. He doesn’t care about the kids.
        Sooooo bottom line is… i have to play the game with him in this medical arena w our kids… and most likely will have to take him to court on this tonsil issue.
        It just gets so tiring. I hate using so much energy in this regard. Id rather put that energy into traveling. 🙂

        1. MLA - Clarece says:

          Who the hell is your mediator? I’m sorry that is your situation having to still walk on eggshells just trying to care properly for your children.
          All the more reason to get a medical plan / strategy in writing from PCP and maybe have copy sent to mediator also to show goodwill. Then maybe it doesn’t have to escalate to a court hearing for it.

          1. Oh mla
            .. you have no idea. Wellll i guess… u might. You’re here. 😉
            They are such jerks.
            An unworthy understatement.
            I hate my lot in life bc of that guy.. but I’ve learned to accept it and look at the positives. They do exist.
            It has brought me closer to God and expanded me worldview. It has given me a different perspective.
            And believe it or not…. bc of God and the clarity He brings…i have more peace in the storms. kinda crazy cool.

          2. MLA - Clarece says:

            So far in 5-1/2 years I have not had any issue that had to involve the mediator and attorney. I’m very lucky and thankful for that. We had gone thru 5 years of infertility issues before I had our daughter (my “one hit wonder”), and my ex and I both want her to be as unburdened by our baggage as can be managed. He seems to tow the line with that at least.
            Hopefully your son won’t catch strep again and the surgery issue will go away on its own.

    3. So entertainment and clarece and HG… and anyone else…

      What do you think of this reply? I have not sent it yet……

      (((( 7Dr hulesch never stated to only come to his office as if his is the only competent office, that’s ridiculous.
      Especially considering that often times same day appointments are not available at his office. I have found the advocate good samaritan outpatient center to be competent, reputable, established with the hospital, and immediate in meeting Nathaniels medical needs. As a matter of fact, it is the exact same place you have taken the children to on more than 1 occasion. Would you rather Nathaniel wait a week or possibly 2 till he can get in to see a dr at the advocate family medical group office. I would think not. The advocate good samaritan outpatient services is an appropriate place to go in such a situation in caring for the immediate needs of Nathaniel.
      Dr Hulesch has stated that the places i have taken Nathaniel to are all reputable and more than acceptable.

      Your accusations of poor dental and physical hygiene are preposterous. Especially considering i am the 1 who improved your dental hygiene and regular dental check up frequency.
      Your accusations are untrue, totally irrelevant and non applicable.
      Not to mention your claim of Nathaniel using your toothbrush. In asking him, he vehemently denied your claim.

      Do not misunderstand, I do not wish to rush Nathaniel into surgery. I only want to do what is best for him and so far, 2 of 2 specialist doctors have recommended for his tonsils to be removed in light of 6 cases of strep throat in 9 months. I will wait a while to see if Nathaniel gets another case of strep anytime soon. I hope not. And we can just move on but if he does I believe that we need to seriously consider having his tonsils removed at the recommendation of the doctors for his own health benefits.))))

      1. Entertainment says:

        All Fuel, he will suck it up. If he’s being resistant because of his need to control there’s no rational with a Narc.

        If you feel it’s necessary to write him, I would remove all emotions, stick to facts that count and are not driven by your emotions. Furthermore, time may be of essence but I would have doctor put his recommendations in writing. Then I would compose a letter based on the doctors written recommendations
        Only my opinion, I have one adult son. His father had issues, I was younger no tolerance for b.s. and had way too many options then. Good luck, again I am sorry your child has to suffer due to this disordered person.

      2. MLA - Clarece says:

        Omg! This should be a new thing we do and edit each other’s responses non-emotionally to each other’s narcs!
        Finding Life, if you send exactly what you have written as is, you are completely opening Pandora’s Box for a huge battle erupting.

        Based on what I wrote previously to work behind the scenes with your primary care physician first before letting your ex know anything finite, here is what I would write back. In this case at this moment in time, less is more is completely the way to go.

        “I want to clarify and make sure we are on the same page for the best care for our son. I do not wish to rush Nathaniel into surgery. I only want to do what is best for him as I’m sure you do. So far, 2 of 2 specialist doctors (recommended by PCP when we cannot get a same day appointment with him) have recommended for his tonsils to be removed in light of 6 cases of strep throat in 9 months. PCP recommends we wait a while to see if Nathaniel gets another case of strep anytime soon. I hope not. If he does I believe that we need to seriously consider having his tonsils removed at the recommendation of the doctors for his own health benefits”.

        Do NOT even address hygiene and the other items. Do not start off using “ridiculous” in your opening paragraph. You are opening yourself up for a volcanic eruption all over you. Treat it like a business memo. Save that copy for you and the release it gave you. Vent to your girlfriends. All he truly needs to know is what is above as what pertains to your son and a possible impending surgery.

        Do with this as you will.

        Hide original message

      3. You are defending yourself. You don’t need too. You set up how it’s going to be. If he doesn’t agree, too bad. You are playing right into his hand when you are defensive. Get the reports gathered from all doctors, take them to the specialist that will do the surgery, send him a copy of the recommendation of the specialist. Then wait. Let the specialist speak for you. Everything else you say, kid didn’t use your toothbrush, poor hygiene, etc…are all fuel. Tell him to communicate with the specialist if he has concerns, not you. You pick what you want to do based on the information from the specialist, then again, make him dispute the doctor. If he calls you about it say, hey, it’s not me, it’s the doctor, talk to him. If he denies your wishes, Court it is. But do not engage him. Make your decision without him. Let him convince the doctor why it should be his way not you.

      4. Mla. ….
        You are ahead of me w the humanity of your narc.
        A) that he can claim the “our” in the baggage if your relationship. Mine is strictly… its all MY fault.
        B) if yours says he doesn’t want it to burden your kid and follows through w action..then bravo. Mine says that but cleverly “does” just the opposite while sabotaging me in the process to make it look like it’s me .
        It’s horrible and completely overwhelming at times.
        Just yesterday at my daughters preschool parent-teacher conference the teacher, after 3 years of a relationship w 3 kids having attended the preschool, felt comfortable enough to say to me…. “i have such sympathy for you. I don’t know how you do it. Just 15 minutes with that guy and I’ve had enough. ”

        I can only hope that this is how more and more people come to see him. For who he truly is.

        1. MLA - Clarece says:

          Yes, that is true and benefits our daughter the most. Honestly, I truly thought my first experience with a Narc was my post divorce relationship with the younger JN. About a year in to reading HG’s blog, he had an article about triangulation and that it could be with things / hobbies and not just people. OMG! The light bulb went off there. That was a constant theme in my 16 year marriage with his instant gratification for his “things” due to his past. Then I started comparing articles to not only JN but at times my ex-husband. The ex-husband had a lot of the victim issues going on needing “caretaking” which I happily did for the 13 years before we had our daughter. I loved the “purpose” it gave me. We appeared “happy” because of that dynamic for the longest time. It all unraveled when our daughter came and he had to compete with her for my attention. I also realized in reading HG’s articles, a former best friend of 10 years is probably a Sociopath who is currently awaiting trial in May for embezzling substantial money from a former past employer we both worked for. A former boss that I had would triangulate me with his third gold-digging wife always trying to make her jealous of me his “perfect assistant” until one day 3 years into the job that didn’t work and he lashed out so hard at me for an hour basically about nothing. I went into such shock and two days later suffered a miscarriage in the 2nd trimester (this was a year prior to my pregnancy with my daughter).
          I really had no clue how drawn I am to these people and in return them to me and actually how long the relationships extended before things went south. Except with JN. I had a 4 month golden period followed by 3-1/2 years of bs hoovers and silent treatments.

          1. Interesting isn’t it?

    4. Thanks everyone. I get it.
      It seems so obvious now.
      ALL FUEL.
      ugh. So glad i didn’t send that reply. Whew.
      How can i get so much about him now in the how, why and what he does….and still be tripped up like this at times?!
      So frustrating. It seems my weakness is “false accusations.”
      It makes me crazy.
      It’s so hard to “not let it get to me.”
      At least he didnt see my reaction or venting etc…. so he doesn’t get the satisfaction.

      I just want to be a “NoFuc-er” (no fuel carrier)
      And a F.R.E.E. (flawed reason to extract emotion)
      But…..its so hard. I am who i am. You have to override who you are and give him something else for your own preservation.

      Thanks everyone for your time and sharing. I appreciate it.

      1. Entertainment says:

        You are well on your way. You are open and receptive, I will be the first one to call you a F.R.E.E. NoFuc-er
        (Giver) 😊Bring those victim thoughts into captivity and allow the strong virtuous woman to emerge. Best wishes

  11. Sometimes I wonder what is going on with this blog……
    Chopping off Dicks. Going to jail. Phenomenal sex. B_E is a she-male. HG NOT a two minute man? That I CAN believe. Otherwise it would ruin my image of the imaginary man or woman. Seriously, how do we really know? Voice changing apps are everywhere. It could be part of the shocking reveal. It’s all good. I’d still be attracted.

    Revenge….not good. It doesn’t change their behavior. If you take the time spent plotting and used it for something productive (reading HG Tudor books) You are likely to fair much better. But, do what cha like.

    1. Entertainment says:

      We are all beautifully flawed. All the craziness and off topics are part of the healing process. It also seems to draw others into the dialogue that usually don’t comment. It’s all done in good spirits, we can all a laugh and wishful thinking.

    2. Love says:

      Yes, there is a lot of craziness on this site. I love the humor and play, but the fighting (which I’ve been a part of in the past) seriously gives me anxiety. It feels too real. I don’t like to see my friends be hurt verbally. In the words of Rodney King, ‘why can’t we all get along?’ But then again, if fighting is your thing, then carry on. Pink bubbles of love to all ❤❤❤
      Unless you aren’t into them, then No bubbles fo yo.

  12. Entertainment says:


    Generalization at its best. Is your statement to Maria inaccurate or just plain ignorance.

    “Your words would do little to frighten any one of our kind, let alone cause any dicks to shrivel.”

    1. Bloody Elemental says:


      Your asking me a question that makes no sense.

      We do not do fear.

      Some would be infuriated by a statement like that and would lash out violently. Some would see it as a challenge and aim to put the person who said it in their place. Some would simply laugh in your face at how pathetic and insane you are.

      But fear? I do not think so.

      1. Entertainment says:


        I was speaking in reference to an earlier quote of yours “Generalizations are not only inaccurate, they are ignorant.”

        The statement you made towards Maria was clearly generalization in regards to what she can and cannot do to a narc.

  13. Al says:

    @ Bloody. Thank you for your response. Were you able to maintain long-term relationships with any of these partners? Have you considered that persons who remark about your looks, are doing so in order to fulfill their own desires-such as in having sexual relations with you? Or perhaps have other ulterior motives for doing so?

    1. Bloody Elemental says:

      Hello Al,

      Long-term relationships/monogamy/commitment to another person of any kind – not my thing. I am not even interested in the illusion of it.

      People, especially men, have been drawn to my physical appearance for as long as I can remember. It is absolutely mind-bending how far some men will go for a taste. This is something I used to my advantage at a tender age and continue to use to my advantage today.

      Ulterior motives do not even register on my radar. I, quite frankly, do not give a damn for the wants, needs, desires, motives of others. My wants, desires and needs (and the fulfillment of every single on of them) are my central concern always. If I do something or engage with someone, it is because it suits my fancy to do so and I stand to gain something from it.

      Similarly, if I know it will cause someone great distress, I will purposely blow them off or turn them down. Sometimes the worst thing a person can do is want me too much.

      1. Twilight/Dawn says:


        You leave me with many questions.
        You can articulate HGs line of thinking very well yet have stated you have not been diagnosed with NPD.
        You have on many occasions stated “our kind, my kind” to which indicates and can mislead others into thinking you have been diagnosed with NPD?

        What path is it you walk? The same as HG or a different one that just actions overlap and are very similar to his?

  14. Al says:

    @ Entertainment- Narcs can be whatever the want to be (The Fantasy Self) and by the sounds of it, your ex Narc has become Superman and Jesus all rolled into one 😉 Narcs make fantastic actors.

    1. Entertainment says:

      Yes, they are the best. Yes, he truly thinks he’s God. He did a YouTube video and actually compared his work to that of Jesus. Ugh, unfortunately only few of us are privy to the reality show. I say unfortunate because they wouldn’t be able to maneuver their way through societies as saints. I was fortunate enough to put a halt to speaking to youth at most of the local churches after he revealed himself to a lady pastor. She shut it down and it spread like wildflowers.

  15. Al says:

    @ Ava101. Thank you for your response. With regards to your ex Narcs-Would you say your ex Narcs drawn to you, as you are attractive? Would you say the sex was to please you, or themselves? And what caused these relationships to end?

    1. ava101 says:

      Al: they don’t care so much about anybody’s attractiveness but their own, unless it reflects back on them. Or maybe if someone provides a challenge. My looks are okay, I guess, but not the main reason for engaging. It’s not about pleasing, and especially not about connection or emotions, it’s about control and power. About the reactions from their partners. (Correct me, if I’m wrong, HG).

      My ex-narc watched me first when I was dancing, when I was engaging in discussions, and when I was enjoying nature, he liked my liveliness and ability to enjoy, but also the intellectual side of me: He was drawn to me for other reasons. Sex was about control. Nothing else. I enjoyed his beautiful body, and I enjoyed myself. He didn’t. He neither cared about pleasing me nor himself. He hates sex & being touched. It was not a matter of minutes WHEN he descended down to my level to execute it, in the contrary. He never lost control for a second. It ended because he decided so from one minute to the next. Was more exciting to watch me cry, being hurt, hurting myself, I guess.

      My ex-lesser-narc-lover also didn’t care about how anybody else looked, he took care of his own body, working out, etc. He liked it when I dressed up FOR HIM. The sex with him was to please us both, I believe he enjoyed very much how he made me feel, his power. (He even suggested a threesome with a friend of his at some point – to show his friend how it’s done. I politely declined.) He also didn’t like being touched. It ended because he constantly needed new fuel sources, new feedback on how great he was from different people. After three years, I suppose I couldn’t give him enough novel excitement anymore. And because of some trouble he got himself into.

      Others: the same. Control. One very short relationship ended because I kicked him out on New Year’s Eve. Another ex-boyfriend: I believe he didn’t care about looks at all, including his own, he enjoyed feeling powerful in bed, too, like exploring soft SM games, etc. Him being dominant, of course. Ended after endless fights.

      I have one ex-boyfriend, who might have only some narc traits (I don’t know what he is), who claimed that he got scared in bed, somehow overwhelmed by too much femininity or something. ;D That’s maybe the other side of the coin.

      Why are you asking?

      1. Al says:

        @ Ava101 Thanks, I was asking as you posted this comment “..This made me laugh. 🙂 I might have a lot of complaints about my various types of ex-narcs, but I have 0 complaints about their looks and their bodies. Enjoyed them very much. Absolutely 0 weight problems. Sex was absolutely not just a few minute affair, oh, no. 🙂
        Don’t know about the aging, because that wasn’t an issue either…”

        But from what you have now said, sex with the ex Narcs was not very good at all. I was also wondering if you were attracted to a particular ‘type’ of Narc such as The Peacock- the body builder, gym bunny who has nothing else going for them, but their looks. Or if the Narcs were attracted to your looks.

        It is interesting you noted the Narcs don’t like to be touched- similar Autism. This probably relates to the abnormalities in both the pre-frontal cortex of the brain of the Narc, as well as the lessor amount of grey matter.

        Perhaps a good form of torture for the Narc, would be to spend a day touching them? 😉

      2. ANK says:

        Sorry to butt in but just wanted to say Ava, I agree that it is not about looks.

        I too think I am ok looks wise, hell I’d even say I wasn’t particularly pretty. Likewise for his new source, she is on par looks wise with myself, and I would say better looking than me because I have a low opinion of myself.

        I don’t know if Narchole goes for women of a certain look (average?) so that when he compliments them, telling them they are gorgeous, they feel loved and wanted and end up from all this flattery and love-bombing falling for him.

        Narchole also liked me to dress up for him – nice dress, heels. Keen on stockings and heels in the bedroom. He also enjoyed watching me in bed, enjoyed watching how he made me feel, enjoyed the mild pain.

        When he tried to hoover he said he missed me, that we were amazing in bed. Really? Or just false flattery to suck me in again?

        I think they draw fuel from whomever they can, they don’t have to be supermodels. They cast the line at someone they like to see if they can hook them and then reel them in.

      3. sarabella says:

        My narc is obsessed with beauty and attractive women. He has a handsome face but god did not give him the body to match. He have him cunning and deception and the dellusions he is some fantastic playboy. He lives the life, but I can’t see how its really very real. He is always left when people see the words were lies. Terrible mechanical lover. But he also willingly ends up with supply who look nothing like his beauty obesssions. And all this creates one of the core of his rages and inferiority complexes. To be so manipulative, so successful at hos con, to be decently good looking, but to fail at being a man in the size department. I think its led him to alot of SM dynamics where he acts this out. Control and abuse substituting for love and true successful lover. Degradation and shaming of his victims to stay in control.

  16. Entertainment says:

    After falling for the hoover by responding to the email. To late I can’t unsee what I read. Ugh.. Yesterday, I was fine. I feel like I am the narc now he’s entered my sphere, I went to his new website and read his about the founder.

    T***** is an exceptional motivational speaker who is dedicated to providing inspirational guidance to those young, old, and in between. From playing bingo with those in nursing homes to playing chess with those incarcerated, A**h*** strives to give back to others by giving life’s most precious gift, TIME. His passion for seeing others succeed compels him to perform his due diligence in restoring motivation and empowerment within each individual.
    I through up in my mouth and now I am fighting the urge to contact the reporter who wrote an article on him at a local newspaper last month and provide him with pictures, texts, and emails that contradicts this good guy image.
    I will be the better person this time.

  17. Maria says:

    ♨ 🔪😠

    1. Entertainment says:

      Without that, I don’t think we would subject to addiction. Words are fleeting but the love making and the way most somatics take care of their body and physical appearance.

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