Righteous Slumber

RIGHTEOUS SLUMBER

I don’t like going to sleep. Being asleep is not such a problem because obviously I am asleep and therefore oblivious to what is going on. It is the act of going to sleep which troubles me and consequently it has in the past taken me some time to fall into slumber. Once I do, I always sleep straight through until morning and awake refreshed and raring to take on my first fuel of the day. I recall a room mate on a football tour when I was 21 asking me why I was still up reading at a late hour when he had been asleep and woke to use the toilet. I explained I was enjoying reading my book, after all, I was not going to admit to him the real reason why I was still reading at midnight. I need to exhaust myself so that I know when I climb between the sheets I will be embraced by my deep and untroubled sleep straight away. If I cannot do that I have learned, after many fretful nights, thatt sleep will not come easily to me.

I know why this is. It is not, as a spiteful ex-girlfriend Tonia once remarked,

“You cannot get to sleep because your conscious won’t let you after all the despicable things you have done.” I laughed that one off. She had no idea.

No. The reason is that when I am going to sleep I believe that everything I have built up and created will disappear. I fear you will vanish because I can no longer see you. I am troubled that all my hard work in finding and establishing supplies of fuel will melt away once I am not able to control it. I need to be in constant control of what is happening and hate for that control to be taken away from me by asleep. Naturally, I must sleep like everyone else but it is in that few minutes as one settles down that the demons creep out from the corners of the room and threaten the destruction of my empire because shortly I will no longer be on hand to govern it. It matters not that I have woken the next day and found everything intact. I am terrified that one day that just could change. Accordingly, I need the transition from wakefulness to sleep to be swift and pronounced.

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111 thoughts on “Righteous Slumber”

  1. Zopiclone fixed that temporarily for me. Though my trouble sleeping was because of what the narcAllister had done, and chemicals are never the answer. Now I am sleeping without Z, but not for very long. I never awake refreshed. I don’t drink. I exercise daily (dogs). But after 16 months I still cry myself to sleep every fucking night.

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  2. Maybe listen to Tonia and other “spiteful” ex’s HG? They tell you more truth then your belief systeem.
    Ever since my ex discarded me I hear he’s been having nothing but nightmares and is sick almost every week. It’s called soulsickness.

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  3. Workrelatedok, I can relate. Yoga helps, as does cuddling with a purring cat. Really. Hope you’re feeling better soon.

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  4. HG, what you describe sounds terrifying. I am curious as to how you manage this kind of suffering on a conscious level, I.e., the knowledge that everything you’ve built is constructed on an illusion and therefore could easily disappear in the wink of an eye. Because whatever is built on a false reality must sooner or later crumble, don’t you also feel this terror throughout the daytime?

    BTW, you are truly a gifted writer. Your work is amazing. Do you read the work of other b cluster writers? Are there any besides your Olympic self that you admire?

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    1. I do not through the daytime Bronwyn, no.

      Thank you for your kind comments about my writing. I do not read the work of any other cluster B writers, no.
      There are other writers whose work I enjoy to read but they are from entirely different genres.

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      1. Evening HG, may I ask….when you inform us of your true fears does that make you feel vulnerable at all? For one of your kind it can’t be easy for you to admit your fears even to a blind audience?
        I would love to know your thoughts/feelings when you are opening up to us with the fundemental truths of your existance.
        I understand if that question is too personal though.
        Thanks.

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      2. Ordinarily one would of course never admit to it and then one might state there is no concern about that admission, but even though I do not know any of the people that I make this admission to, the fact of admitting to something like this does not sit easy with me. It offends my sense of what I am.

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      3. Thank you for your honesty.
        I have the utmost respect for the fact that you chose to answer my question.
        I’m not sure how that makes me feel about you in terms of what you are but it’s put a lump in my throat.

        You own courage. No mirroring, you HAVE it. Inside of you. It’s who you are. You’ve just proved it.

        HG you are so much more than you realise. I so wish you could see that.

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  5. Good evening HG.
    How very candid.
    I’m not that’ll have been easy for you to write.
    Thank you very much for sharing.

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  6. So HG, if your kind are afraid your fuel web may collapse while you are asleep, why does it not bother you to put an appliance on the shelf and keep it there for a long time without checking in to make sure the appliance is still there?

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    1. Good question IL. The difference is that when we put someone on the shelf it is at our choosing. Sleep is not of our choice hence this necessary but unwanted interruption creates the concern. We are the doers, not the done to, you see.

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      1. Yes, of course! It’s all about control. I get it. Thank you very much for explaining, HG!

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  7. HG, my exnarc would always leave lights on or TV on all night. Lights would keep me awake, so I would get up and turn them off and go back to bed. When I would get up in the morning the lights would be on again. What in the world would a grown man be afraid of the dark?

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    1. Wow, my ex too! Particularly the TV. Always noise. Drive me crazy. He said it kept his mind occupied. I assumed complex PTSD and nightmares. He never could recall a dream and slept on average 5 hours.

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      1. Hi Indi et all.
        That is SO interesting. Up until the last month I haven’t recalled a single dream whatsoever. I’ve woken in the night 2, 3, 4 times crying out, in a panic and absolutely drenched in cold sweat but I was unable to recall anything I had been dreaming about. I have been diagnosed with C PTSD so I’m guessing that’s the link. I’ll do some research now so thank you 😊
        This last month has seen such a change though. I still get a few night terrors but nothing in comparison. My panic attacks have dropped considerably and my anxiety and fear is lessening. I now remember my dreams as vividly as ever. My Doctor was surprised last week when she saw me and commented straight away how much better and alive I looked 😊 she was right. I told her it was because I’d met a new Narcissist called ‘H’annibal ‘G’lector who was teaching me all about the disorder…..no I didn’t really tell her that! Lol. But the truth is that is EXACTLY why I am finally healing and I owe him so much!
        There is such an irony to HG and his writing….destroyed by one Narc healed by an other. Pretty mind blowing hey 😊
        The not remembering my dreams/nightmares always puzzled me but in honesty it was last on my list to try and figure out as there was so many other more pressing or important things to work on at the time. Now I have a lot more ‘head space’ I’m going to try connect the two. Thanks Indi and HG

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      2. Karen the night sweats and crying out have been a part of my nights for years! Mine have also lessened since finding HG!! I hope you have a wonderful Easter. Bless you. Bless you and Thank you also HG! Xxx

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      3. My husband had to have a loud fan running by the bed every night – not on him, just for the noise. Used to drive me nuts having to have a fan blowing in the winter. He can not sleep without the noise.

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      4. Windstorm2
        Haha I pictured a guy with a huge foam finger yelling go team go and running past your bed. Then Steve Martin banging on a pot. They do love their fans.

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  8. HG, so the creature or demons are there even if you have someone next to you in bed? Is this something you hide from them by simply saying you are just having trouble going to sleep?

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      1. Do you ever fear that you could wake up one day and no one would be commenting on the blog? We’d all go away. No one buying your books anymore?

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      2. Thank you for answering HG. I wasn’t sure if having someone near you before you drifted off helped with the demons. I understand now why he held me so near to him and didn’t want me to leave until he fell asleep. Xxx

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      1. My Ex didn’t either. I used to dream Every night…..as the years with him passed my dreams stopped. And then I’d only occasionally have one and it would always be in the form of a nightmare.

        Wonder if there’s a link between reduction of something chemical in the brain resulting from abuse and those which generate our dream state/the ratification of life events during our waking hours? Amygdala/pituitary gland area (sorry if mispelt) – which if i remember rightly from reading somewhere, I think some tests have shown to be smaller in those individuals with BPD/psychosis.

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  9. Ah, sleep. Precious sleep. Thanks for writing this. Now I know, somewhere out there, there are many a narc falling straight asleep because they gave me all their sleeping jujus. But don’t ya worry your pretty head, I’m working on clearing myself of their darkness.
    Btw, you are concerned about the empire you’ve built outside. What about creating one within?
    Wishing everyone beautiful dreams and deep peaceful sleep 😴

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  10. The tHiNg had nooo trouble sleeping. Always read first. Always! But…if I was trying to sleep OMG, do you think he would let me? Helllll noooo!!! The crackle of chips in noisy packets would come out, or the “oh I cant get comfortable’s” would suddenly appear. The tv would be turned up to blast mode! (FFS!!) But him? He would sleep like a baby. Yeah, a BIG baby!
    Thanks HG.

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  11. He never could sleep without a radio playing. He needed a sound next to him. Like a little child. In the beginning I thought this is so cute.
    Later, I saw him stumbling around at night. The reality touched him. His first source of money: his father , was very sick. Now he did not know what to do. His fantasy imperium broke down. He had to make decisions and to work. Uh, how ugly. He had to grow up.
    I refused to give him money. That was the point when he and his father devalued me. I was no money source. They had invested all their financial hopes in me. I was no cash cow. I still wear that golden chain proudly sometimes, which was given to me as a present by him and his father. It should have been a present for me to fall into the trap. A golden chain. Now it is a symbol for freedom for me.

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  12. Ahhh.. This explains why the only time he appeared to be caring was at bedtime. He’d wrap himself around me like his life depended on it. Clinging on to his precious fuel supply more like! Hahah.. Sad act ..

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  13. Thank you so much, HG for this deeply touching extremely important article. The narc I was involved with is suffering from insommnia almost each night, and then he engages in sexting with anonymous women. If he can make it to sleep, so he confessed to me one time, his dreams are very intensive and “disagreeable” as he put it. As I already wrote in another comment, he is a survivor of childhood abuse.
    It was always clear to me that your kind have trouble with getting sleep, because that means letting go of control.
    But your way in describing the special fears involved are moving and impressing as well.
    Thank you very much.

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      1. I thought that the gold/platinum ratio was still over 1? But perhaps you are more updated…I do not follow that market so closely nowadays..I am sure you are right..of course😀

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  14. Workrelatedoc, it’s sad that 16 months on you are still crying. It can take a very long time to heal. Turn inwards I believe the narc triggers our already existing wounds and smashes them to the surface. I’ve healed through yoga, mediation and self care. I had a massive fear of abandonment and his abandonment was so cruel. I’m fully healed now he doesn’t stir any emotion in me I’ve purged. Very painful but very worth it in the end

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  15. The fear that you will not be in control during the time when you are relaxing in bed before you fall asleep, is it all the fuel you gathered during the day disappearing overnight or is it The Creature telling you unpleasant things? Or something else?

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  16. Just bought ‘confessions’ by HG and feel the need to confess my own wrongdoing….just chucked the kids in the living room with far too much chocolate and the TV remote so I can start reading without being interrupted.
    Bad bad selfish Mother!

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  17. Hi imfree and Karen and all,
    I can relate to that too. My dream frequently definitely lessened while with the ex. It bothered me as I saw my dreams as inner guides. I think you are right, it might be the trauma effects we felt too, while in the relationship. Hmmmm…I didn’t think about that, that’s an excellent observation. I’m sure it’s partially chemical changes and change in sleep patterns. I could never fully sleep soundly with him. Eventually I slept on his hours, likely suppressing/reducing R.E.M. Cycles. I do think it’s c-PTSD, although I thought his were the result of his military experiences. He would never share about the memories unless drunk. I stayed bc I felt bad and wanted to help. I tried. Up the walls went and denials. Then his family said his military stories were likely not true. I didn’t know who to believe as military stuff can be highly secretive. Now I know it’s more complicated and likely combined with his development toward narcissism.

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    1. From what I have been told by my Doc C-PTSD differs from PTSD as PTSD usually occurs due to one traumatic incident whereas CPTSD is a result of prolonged and continuous trauma over a period of time particularly if the ‘victim’ feels trapped and unable to escape the abuse. (Which certainly correlates to my own personal story)
      The symptoms of both are similar – hyper-vigilence, panic attacks, flashbacks etc.

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      1. Hi,
        Yes, I agree completely. that is the difference and presentation is similar. those in military can experience both. Those with child abuse history, domestic violence history, POW, war torn counties, victims of hate crimes, living in hostile environments, all can exp either or both. When I was with my ex, I didn’t know he was a narcissist until much later, about a year in. I thought he acted the way he did due to alcoholism (which often has an element of self absorption) mixed with ptsd from military exp paired with mood disorder. Only later did I realize that he also was a narcissist. He didn’t present as classically as textbook. More cerebral and less somatic though he had hints of some of both. HG helped a lot. I hope your healing is going well! I am having less and less cptsd symptoms 😊 Dreams coming back 😊

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      2. Indi I sincerely hope my post didn’t come across as patronising or condescending! You clearly know more than I about trauma.
        It’s great to hear your dreams are coming back too 😊 we WILL get there…together 😊 and with the help of HG of course.
        HG – the NHS could save a fortune if you were available on prescription! Seriously, I’m not joking. My counsellor, psychologist and Doctor are amazing and I would never diss them but to me, the education you have given me and more importantly the UNDERSTANDING you have afforded me (understanding deletes the confusion which has been one of my biggest problems) has been priceless.
        The irony of being destroyed by a narc to then be healed by a narc is not lost on me but then in another way it is perfectly logical too. Rather like the flu jab….

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      3. Hi Karen,

        No no no. No worries at all. You did not come across that way at all. I was kind of working it out, out loud as I wrote in that post, if you will. He was complicated. The situation was also complicated by the fact that I cannot ethically diagnose family or loves. Thus, it kept me bound. Because I thought I loved him (apiece of me did too, until I realized I was likely mirrored). It kept me in denial and longer in the relationship as I kept interpreting his symptoms with more hope and empathy. HIs story compelled me. I felt for the fact he served our country, that he seemed (at first) to be humble/shy though smart type with a cute edge. He was just hiding his true nature, I now understand. My codependent need to save him kicked in when I also saw he struggled with addiction (A weakness I am ever vigilant with now and working out). As time went on, and as I spoke to my friends, I was led down a personality disorder path…I was reluctant on narcissism due to his ability to engage in self depreciating humor. I was confused. Well, after being introduced to Evil by my supervisor and then reading other of HGs works, it became more clear. I went through the stages of denial….and when I read Exorcism and Departure, I was hitting the anger stage and the will to survive increased and I said “Im done”.

        Even for those in the mental health field, it can be hard to identify if you are not fully trained in seeing this. I wasn’t at first. Now, trained by life and HG. I do wonder, am I polluted now, toward the idea of love. A bit cynical these days. I hope to find a life partner but I am very cautious. Still learning and honing my skills.

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      4. Indy I wish you much luck in your search for love and a life partner. I am far beyond cynical in that for myself. Hearing people talk about true love and life partners is very bittersweet for me. Ive had to come to terms that my life partner is my exhusband, who is of course a narcissist. True love will always be for me a holy grail. Best fortune to all of you who continue to seek it.

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      5. Thank you Windstorm!

        I think of that well known saying about how Love is like a butterfly. All the effort to try to capture it to only be alluded by the most quick fluttering away, just out of grasp. But, when you forget about it, it settles on your shoulder.

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      6. Seems after so much submersion of the narc’s tool box of dirty tricks and drama…we somehow become addicted to it. So, as far as saying we feel trapped and can’t escape, might not be so accurate. If we’re trully honest with ourselves…maybe we notice the unlocked prison cell door, however, option to stay in for more punishment. Hooked on the futile defense of proving our innocence to a ruthless uncaring prosecutor.

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      7. Hi Lansealan, of course I can only speak for myself on this one but I assure you I wasn’t addicted to him. I assure you I detested the man…every touch violated me. He tried to kill himself the first time I tried to leave. I knew then that I was trapped. No escape. I have a 10 year old son who at the time adored him. There was no way I could have his suicide on my shoulders. (Of course I now know he knew exactly what he was doing and there was never any intention to actually kill himself) From that moment on i hated him. Lost any shred of respect I had for him. I swear that I used to look forward to the next time he would ‘leave’ me. He left me around 10 times and each time was delicious respite. Of course he would emotionally blackmail me to come back, by using my son! But every time I prayed he wouldn’t get in touch and he would stay ‘left’. He couldnt go an hour without getting in touch though and however long I held out with no contact the worse the threats got until I caved. The last time he left was different because whereas I had always caved because I thought it was best for my son this time something happened and I knew the best thing for my son was to be away from the bastard. Hence I didn’t give in no matter how bad the threats got because he’d exhausted every blackmail trick he could and I knew that if he took his own life that was preferable for my son than letting him back in his life. I know that sounds so bad but my son will always take priority over everyone. I also knew if he took his own life it would haunt my conscience forever but I would not regret my decision on account of my son’s well-being. Honestly hand on heart I have not missed him once. I didn’t long for him back and when he moved on to his next victim my emotions were mixed feelings of absolute relief for myself because I knew (well I thought!) he would finally leave me alone and guilt and pity for the new victim and her children. I still struggle with the guilt and although I know there I nothing I can do about it I feel it is my moral duty to warn the poor girl. but I can’t…She will believe his shite for now and I would look like the crazy ex he’s already portrayed me to be.
        I digress….MY personal truth is I had no addiction to him. I was chained to him. Emotionally captive. Nothing more and nothing less.

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      8. Lansealan
        I have witnessed and agree with your observation. The victim feels trapped and unable to escape but we all know deep down there is always a way out. Unfortunately the prospect of having to make change and take action scares and exhausts the victim into rationalizing that its not that bad and things will change. They know it wont but the alternative is just too frightening. This glossing over by calling it love is just an attempt at having a “noble” reason to stay. The real reason is that they lack something in themselves and are unwilling to face it and so continue with the addiction to chaos.

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      9. Totally agree. The combination of gas-lighting to make the person not trust their own gut, the gradual weakening of will, the mind and emotional roller coasters that bind them to a chemical like addiction, and being worn down and isolated from ones true support network. It is like being held hostage mentally without the physical bars and locks. Like Stockholm syndrome.

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  18. HG
    The fact that you enjoy “rude health” as you have put it previously, is surprising given that you get by on so little sleep with all those plates spinning. You would think that you would suffer headaches, lack of focus, or colds at the very least. Studies have shown a link between lack of sleep and a compromised immune system leading to various ailments such as those. I wonder though if this is not the case with you more due to the fact that you do not suffer lack of sleep due to worry, guilt, stress etc. which is the case for most. When you do fall asleep you fall into deep undisturbed sleep (the sleep of the just, which still makes me laugh) and are well rested upon waking, as opposed to those who suffer it due to emotional responses like worry, etc. I was never able to sleep well from being conditioned to being on guard and I did suffer migraine headaches and lack of focus in school. Chalk up another one for lack of conscience and team N.

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    1. It’s incredibly unfair, isn’t it, NarcAngel. I also did a brief research on how much sleep people need, and it seems to be true – there are those lucky few who really don’t seem to need more than 4 hours of sleep, while most people need at least 8 hrs. ….

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    2. NA, thx for saying that your sleep was effected. I never thought about it from my inner child perspective. I woke up to parents, people fighting a lot. Interestingly I never thought about how that might have effected me growing up. Too busy focused on everything else I guess. Thx though for the reminder.

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      1. ABB
        Yes, it was only much later in life that I realized how much it affected my education. I only had so much energy so with school, looking after my siblings, part-time job cleaning, and 2 paper routes (haha good times) I put only enough effort in to make sure to pass my subjects (which was easy). My parents never attended school regarding grades etc so it was not until later that I learned it was not enough to pass, that it was the actual grade you got that determined your future in education. When I realized I could not continue on I was sick and asked my parents why It wasnt explained to me. The answer was that they thought a pass was good enough and going to school was a waste of time-it costs money, doesnt bring it in. All my friends went on to University. My plan b was to ensure I got a job before they got out, which I did. All of this because my parents were clueless and I was tired. I often wonder where it would have lead me if I had gone on in school. Yet another overlooked facet and result of Narc life.

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      2. NA,
        I like the paper route part. I had one and worked under the table scooping ice cream. I was told if you want anything in life you have to work. They didnt buy me anything. I started paper route at 10 and ice cream job at 12…I want those $50 Jordache/Gloria Vanderbilt jeans dammit! *scooping away**frisbee paper and hits the front door* ouch my wrist.

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      3. Abrokenwing
        My life has only been hard when it has been controlled by other people. The examples I have given are to validate the experiences of those who have faced similar situations but are unable to talk about them, to warn some of the result of inaction, and to demonstrate that your end is not determined by your start no matter what circumstance you find yourself in. They are not to one-up anyone elses experience or to garner sympathy-that is of no use to anyone. I have a busy and productive life and do not sit around lamenting things past. I look at them to learn from them and then put them away. That is not to say that people will not have influence in your life, but you should be the one controlling the level of it and not them. I do what I want while taking into consideration the effect on others but it is always my decision in the end. If that is your definition of one tough cookie then we agree. If it is not your definition, I still am one tough cookie. See what I mean?

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      4. ABB and NA!! I too had a paper route! aged 10 I started that as well. got my first 10-speed that way. Later, I worked in our bus depot so I could have the clothes I wanted. Hard work!! I am thankful because it taught me good work ethic and to always earn my own keep. Never rely on a man for the dollar!

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      5. INDY and ABB
        Haha, suggesting now that a kid get a paper route, mow lawns, or even take a bus is akin to suggesting child abuse. Parents now have the idea just like HG and his brethren that it is for the great unwashed. Is it any wonder there are more selfie-taking, entitled little disco balls in the making? Never had to earn anything. Can you see our boy peddling papers? Financial Post in a wagon made by Mercedes Im sure. The client coming to meet him at the curb and handing over the money in a fine vellum envelope while admiring that the fine azure tie he is wearing with his little short pants matches his eyes. Occasionally the wagon can be seen abandoned just inside an alley, where if one dared to look, would find him offering a little girl a quarter. Not for a kiss, no, and not for a game of you show me yours and I’ll show you mine, but to look into her eyes and pinch her until she cries.

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      6. Narcangel
        Ha, ha, ha!! That mental image cracked me up! But he would never give HER a quarter. He’d talk her into paying him! 😄😄😄

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      7. Windstorm2
        Oh not to worry-its just a deposit. He gets it back when he threatens to smear her by telling the other school children she took her panties down if she doesnt return it and add a quarter of her own.

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      8. Mercedes wagon, hehe. And she got a quarter? Well, snap! I’m sure he paid the help to deliver the papers and paid them extra to not tell MatriNarc!

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      9. @ NarcAngel – and this is the right way to approach those things I guess.. It was a compliment , I praise your strength. I can relate to your experiences so thank you for sharing. 😊🍪

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      10. Abrokenwing
        I took it as a compliment and I thank you. Now about the name you chose……..I like it for its descriptive and original qualities, but would you say it is still representative of your state or are you healing?

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      11. @NarcAngel – I wasn’t thinking much about my name to be honest. I wanted to ask a question and to do so had to log in . I typed ‘a broken ‘ in a google search looking for some inspiration and one of the first results was this song “A Broken Wing” by Martina McBride. I played it. Song itself wasn’t my cup of tea but thought the video and lyrics fitted well. So that’s the story behind it. With regards to my healing.. Things are going in a good direction I would say- Thank you for asking 🙂. I definitely have more understanding than few months ago.Normally positive and determined I still have days when crying at loud while driving .. but not so often . I do read a lot tho. This blog is a blessing and I hold on to the belief that one day I will fly again.. 😊

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  19. Hello All (NarcAngel I’m still to reply to you, your posts addressing mine this weekend have been a tonic, thank you.)

    But….I’ve had a weird weird day of pervasive thoughts….in relation to HGs Personal Jesus post. My comments are being held by him in moderation and I’m keen for them to be released!

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  20. I think maybe I need to come off this site for a bit. I thought I was doing OK but is this what they call being ‘triggered’? I feel very off kilter today. Need to tune out, regroup and get a grip.

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    1. Ah sorry to hear you’re feeling that way!
      Yes there seem to be plenty of triggers within HG’s writing. Some harder to stomach than others.
      You do whatever you need to do to take care of yourself.
      Best wishes

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    2. Imfree
      We all need breaks sometimes. But we will still be here when you wish to share and need support. :). Be well. 😊

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      1. Thank you for your supportive posts, Karen1303 and Windstorm. I felt like I was in another relationship with a narc in how I felt in response to HGs blog!

        And then mindf***ed my own mind!

        Had a break, had a word and am having the occasion peek and interaction again, but in a more healthy way. She says with hope.

        Have changed name from Imfree to VFH just in case you wonder who on earth I am btw.

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      2. Hi VFH, I’m glad you’re having a peak again 😊
        I too went through similar when I first came here. Had to take time out because of how it was affecting me. I was literally scared of what I read and how deeply it affected me. I would absorb the words that deeply that I was confused if it was HG or the Ex writing and as such HG would morph into my ex. It was all very weird and as you say mind fu**ery. I would read HG’s words in the ex husband’s voice.
        Thankfully with time I got my head together and straight again and I’m no longer afraid of HG. (And less afraid of the ex thanks to HG!)
        It’s all crazy shit isn’t it.
        I’m glad you’ve found your way back and I wish you well with your continued healing.

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      3. Hi….Yes and ditto to all of that.

        See even in your reply to me just now, there lies the rub….I was/am/am I?? paranoid enough to think you and others’ supportive posts were just part of it, that you’re all in cahoots with HG, that your support is just mirroring me (I’ve given enough info for that to be possible but an intelligent person could guess anyway, bearing in mind I found my way to this blog in the first place right?)

        No offence meant by my suspicions and although my guard is up I will try to keep an open mind and take this virtual place for what it is rather than reading too deeply. If I sense I’m getting sucked in again I’ll take another timeout. And there’s the push pull relationship thing again. See?!? 😥😂

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      4. No offence taken and over vigilance isn’t an altogether bad thing. Mine was terrible to begin with but now it’s calmed down. Paranoia is part of it. I dont think you’re being paranoid though, I just think your self preservation instincts have heightened because of your trauma. You might be interested in looking into Complex-Post Traumatic Stress Disorder which is common after narcissistic and domestic abuse. Heightened awareness and hyper vigilance are both symptomatic of c-PTSD.
        At the end of the day you don’t need to trust anyone here. Just take what you can. You don’t need validation from anyone. If our words mean nothing to you so be it, leave them where they are but if you find any positives or anything helpful to you in our words take them. No-one can touch you here VFH. Remember that. You are safe even if we’re all cranks and HG’s lieutenants, we cannot touch you.
        You are safe 😊

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      5. VHF
        I understand your concern but let me just say that my posts would have been less comprehensive if I were part of an illusion/conspiracy lol. It sounds like you may have been what people on here refer to as being triggered and I didnt mean to overwhelm. I try to be as factual without being too graphic but its sometimes hard as it’s never a pretty picture. I hope you continue to read and digest the information at your own comfortable speed to ensure you stay on the road to healing. Maybe the books would be better suited for that if you have difficulty with the comments here.

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      6. Hi NarcAngel

        I think I was ‘triggered’ yes….it wasn’t your posts though, they were helpful and I’m thankful you shared especially about the child issue. You’re the first person who’s been able to give me that side of the story, validate my concerns in that way and for that I’m grateful.

        It was more that I absorbed myself so completely in the blog after first discovering it that it was like I love bombed myself with it! The intensity was unwelcome but entirely my own doing.

        I’m good now….had a word and understand that perhaps I was on a dinghy crossing the sea of recovery, rather than the super tanker I thought it was, and it got a puncture and flew backwards a bit. I’ve patched it up and it appears to be made of wood now so should be more reliable. 😁

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      7. Good evening HG. Did it now. Just for being what it is or do you have any special hidden depths in your amusement?

        I amused myself too as I wrote it….seems I do still have a sense of humour. Which is a nice relief. I like your boat analogies…very well suited to the situation.

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      8. Thank you and coincidentally I’m seeing someone this week about the effects I may be experiencing as a result of the aftermath. There are stages for sure.

        Some days I have time for it; I’m patient, philosophical and understanding of myself and others, then at other times I totally hold no prisoners and have very much a Whatever attitude. Today is one of those days!

        Is it just me (can’t be) or does everything we experience in the aftermath mirror the emotions of a narcissist in general? Angry, content/hopeful, angry, content/hopeful etc push pull push pull etc.

        I wonder, is being “aware” the key? Before too much of the darkness/constant questioning/over-thinking etc makes you just SO pissed off that you can’t shake it off and come out the other side into the light. So you’re stuck there in the dark angry place for ever.

        I’ve just answered my own question I think. That’s the nub of abuse isn’t it? You can only take so much before our coping mechanisms take over and protect us by hiding us away inside a “relational tower”.

        And the awful thing about it being meted out to children is that is their norm so they have no substantial “before” to shine like a tiny beacon and show them the way back home.

        Gah. Sucked into my own slipstream there.

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  21. Now I get it.. why he always went to bed so late, woke me up for sex and then dosed off holding me so hard. Afraid of his own demons and that I would be gone.. oh well I did leave and left him wounded. Just found out the other day that it almost caused him narcissistic suicide .. but why?! He did not treat me well so I had to leave..
    He’s not been sleeping since.

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  22. I was triggered all the time over the space of a year and a half. He was trying to alienate my child against me and being the hysterical loon that I was I was helping. What I’ve found as I’ve healed is that children naturally gravitate towards the strongest parent. I am way stronger than he is and any attempts at alienation just don’t work anymore. She says a father is grumpy and she used to think the sun shone out of his ass

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  23. @NarcAngel
    Hello NarcAngel!
    I found your comment very interesting!
    I have been reflecting a lot lately more about the Empath group. This site provides us with very valuable information( actually the only I have found regarding the different schools of narcissists and groups of empaths) of both the narcissist group and the empath group.
    So I wanted to share with you some of my reflections:
    Quoating a part of your comment:
    “The real reason is that they lack something in themselves and are unwilling to face it and so continue with the addiction to chaos.”

    I agree with you in some way but what do you think about the following:
    1. Does the empath( take by instance the Co-dependant) KNOW/ IS AWARE of what she/he lacks and she/he makes a choice ( willing )of staying?
    2. Or : Does the empath KNOW/IS AWARE and makes the choice of leaving but she/he is not capable of doing it? And why?
    3. Or: Does the empath is COMPLETELY UNAWARE? And therefore she/he stays not having a clue of what all this chaos is about?

    And if you feel like sharing..I thought I read somewhere that you have strong narcissist traits but are still within the group of Empaths?
    Sorry if you find any “unintentional ” switch of vowels that could lead to misinterpretation😉but English is not my first language…

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    1. Superxena

      I have no professional qualifications to state the following-these are just my views and experiences:

      1. There are those who are aware of both themselves and their partner but stay willingly. These I call Volunteers. I have been in this category.

      2. Yes there are those who rationalize in the moment that this must not continue but as I said in the previous post-the prospect of having to act causes fear and as time goes on they rationalize (especially if the abuser is now in neutral or “nice” mode) that it wasnt as bad as they recall or that it was their fault, or find some other reason to stay. They ARE capable of leaving but throw up whatever roadblocks they need to avoid it, convincing themselves that they are trapped. They are trapped by only their own thought process. It is for better or for worse their “comfort” zone as opposed to the frightening unknown until they hit whatever point it is that spurs them to action, and that point is different for everyone. I have never heard a valid reason for not leaving, just the reason they BELIEVE they cant. They can but won’t until theyre ready. I have been a hostage of this category (as a child).

      3. I dont believe this category exists. You may not have a name for yours or their condition but you know chaos and know that chaos as a constant is no way to live. Everyone has some level of instinct. You know at the very least when something feels bad or wrong. Wanting to continue in any situation that compromises your happiness and health speaks to a problem in yourself. How many people on the planet? And you have to keep flogging away at this one? I have always felt that this is when the Empath lets their mask slip. That is when they show their narcissistic side in having someone bend to THEIR will to achieve what THEY want instead of accepting that person as they are and just not for them. They want that golden period back and the price they are willing to pay for that addiction is very telling of themselves. They hide it under the guise of love to make it seem altruistic but it is their form of control no matter how you look at it.

      I would say that I am more narcissistic than empathic in my real life, and you will see both here on the blog depending on ones perspective. Some would point to my last paragraph as showing narcissism depending on their place on the spectrum. I of course try to keep it civil in my posts to get the point across, so know that sometimes I am holding back what I would really unleash in my real life. I would not do a lot of the things HG does but I am not bothered by a lot of them either. I believe you can only do what people allow you to do to them and if they dont respect themselves enough well then……..
      I do however make concession for children and people truly unable to defend themselves or who I feel can but could use a little back up and I decide who they are. If I go on any longer my mask will slip so I’ll leave you with that lol.

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      1. Wow narcangel…
        We are two peas in a pod! I’m an active member in the NAS online community and have been seriously working on starting my own blog & Vlog. I’m inspired by “redemptive suffering”, if you are familiar with that. I like what I see and read from you and totally relate to your POV👍. I’ll try and keep posting updates and am hoping to involve HG(he just doesn’t know yet…lol!) would also value your input as well😉

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      2. Lansealan
        Well dont look now but HG posted your comment so youve already tipped your hand. I dont know of NAS or this concept of which you speak but I see the word redemptive, so I will warn you that if youre asking me to have any involvement in anything to do with religion, you are about to see a lot more of my narcissistic side.

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