‘Til Death Do Us Discard



The word ‘discard’ is well-known in the lexicon of the narcissistic world. It forms one of the four cornerstones of the narcissistic embrace. The seduction, the devaluation, the discard and the hoover. Discard brings with it a sense of finality. The impression that we have extracted everything we can from you and that we are finally done with you. You have served your purpose and we no longer have any use for you. I do not think discard is an accurate description. We certainly toss you aside with no concern for your well-being or emotional state. We suddenly stop communicating with you. You cannot contact us as we vanish, walking off the face of the earth. If you receive some kind of half-baked explanation, then you ought to consider yourself as lucky to receive even that. We are, however, never done with you. The discard as such is a temporary cessation to the dance that you and I engage in.

I have written elsewhere of the main reasons why we discard and chief among them is the fact that we have acquired a new toy. You are old, stale and no fun anymore so you are left at the bottom of the toy box as we become infatuated with our new shiny and glittering toy. Of course your discard is not permanent. Once I selected you, you had a role to fulfil for the rest of your life when it comes to me. You have no choice, so far as I am concerned, in respect of this role. I assigned it to you and I regard you as obligated to carry it out forever. I may decide that I require you again for the purposes of triangulation. I may want the new primary source to pump out even more positive fuel because they feel threatened by your re-appearance. Like some corpse, we resurrect you in order to unnerve the new primary source. We will hoover you and tempt you with the prospect of winning our favour once again. When we triangulate you in this fashion you can rest assured that what is being said to you will be said in a similar way to the new primary source. We may comment to you: –

“She is just someone to pass the time with, she is nowhere near as special as you are to me.”

Around the same time, we will be telling your replacement primary source,

“Don’t worry about her. She cannot let go. I am not surprised really because I did so much for her, but it is you I want, you are so special, far more than she ever was.”

You are spurred on by such encouragement and double your efforts to please me in the hope of winning me back. The replacement is spurred on by such encouragement and she doubles her efforts to keep me and ensure you prove to be no temptation to me.

We will bring you back if the new prospect turns out to be less effective than we thought. We decide that they need to be consigned to the scrap heap quicker than usual and therefore we will turn to that person we know. You. We know all about you and how you will react and therefore it is far easier to return to you and hoover you than seek someone new again. This has the added benefit that the passage of time will have allowed you to recover from our abuse but also the longing that we imbue in you, when we discard, will continue to gnaw away at you and thus when we decide we have ended the “discard” you are easy to hoover.

We may be utterly delighted with your replacement but decide we will end the “discard” in order to punish you further. At this stage we have no interest in engaging in a romantic and intimate relationship with you again. Your replacement serves that role most effectively. No, we want to punish you. We will hoover you in an unpleasant and savage way, smearing you and parading your replacement around to all and sundry and explaining how wonderful it is to be with someone who truly understands us, loves us and is not abusive as you were.

We may toss you aside and come nowhere near you for weeks, months and even years. We know that the nature of this “discard” is such that no matter how hard you try; you remain vulnerable to being sucked back in. This is because you have not been able to cope with the ever presence we created and your frequent reminders of the golden period. It is also because you want answers, finality and understanding and because we flounced off the face of the earth, you did not get those things and the desire to receive them remains strong even years later.

We do not truly discard you. We push you to one side but you serve many purposes afterwards. You recover so your fuel provision increases again, you are the provider of both positive and negative fuel, dependent on how we hoover you. You are needed for the triangulations we wish to deploy. This cycle of picking you up and putting you down again, as and when suits us, is one that will go on and on until such time as you decide to break the pattern of “discards” and escape instead. Of course when you try to escape us we do not regard this as ending our binding arrangement. You are mis-guided, perhaps listening to the biased voices of others which is affecting your judgement. You, in our minds, do not get to choose when the arrangement ends. All the way through our lives, we will use you and then push you to one side before coming back again at some future point. If you allow us the means of contact by drifting into our sphere of influence again then we will hoover you, because the opportunity is too good to pass up. You are then drawn in, the cycle commences once more and a further “discard” will happen. You can see by the repeated nature of this process that there is no real discard, only a temporary cessation to our entanglement, but one tendril always remains wrapped around, continuing the connection so that we can draw you back in at our choice.

Even if you take steps whereby you expose us for what we are or reveal us to other people who accept what you say, we will withdraw to lick our wounds but this discard is temporary also. We still want your fuel and we want it badly. We also have a desire for revenge. We may not resume matters in a benign method when this happens and instead opt for the malign approach in order to extract fuel, but the entanglement will begin again at some future point.

We put you down but you can always be picked up again. Rest assured that this will happen repeatedly and even if you think the nature of the discard was so harsh, so savage and seemed so final, it was not. We will return, if able and do it all again.

The only true discard of our toxic entanglement is when of us dies. Only then is there finality.

58 thoughts on “‘Til Death Do Us Discard

  1. Sarah says:

    If a mid-range covert narcissist breaks things off with you, harshly, says he never wants to see you or hear from you ever again, tells you that you meant nothing to him and blocks you – is it safe to assume that there will be no future hoover? It feels very final.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Hello Sarah, it is not safe to assume that no. Read the Spheres of Influence and Hoover Time. This is said in the moment because you are painted black but it is not an indicator of future intent.

  2. Maria says:

    Pamela Bergner

    there is a medicine: it is call Will Power.

    I believe that they can change.
    They have to want it.

  3. Jday says:

    Does the doubting of him actually being a narcissist ever go away? My mind plays tricks constantly on whether he actually was one..just wondering if that disappears eventually?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      That is a typical response of an empathic person to keep doubting that he is a narcissist. Consult with me and provide the information and I will settle the issue for you.

      1. Nikkiann says:

        To Mr. Tudor I would like your final ruling on mine. First and last silent treatment was 5 months long he slept and the couch with held important information from me. Acted like me forcing him to “stay” married to me was ruining his life and the major contributing factor to his depression. He has 4 kids by 3 different women and during the Silent Treatment would bash me to his child’s mother’s.He announced he wants divorce on Christmas Eve. I gladly filed the paperwork. Now he uses new woman, who is 20lbs heavier than me and very unattractive to make me jealous by parading her around kids during his visitations. O and I had to take him to court just so when I call to speak to my kids he actually answers the phone. Is he a narcissist? And what range if so?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Hello Nikkiann, there are certainly indicators there but in order to address this fully and with the relevant detail for you, a consultation is the appropriate forum.

  4. Lynnette says:

    Hi HG, I read several of your articles and it feels like they apply yet I still wonder if I am crazy for wondering if this person is a narcissist. How is that so?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You are not. It is a typical response of an empathic individual, I was only explaining this point at length in consultation recently.

  5. Twilight says:

    What would you say about the families that are narcissistic?

    They found me by accident but sense then random visit, by the adults, sending the children in asking questions about my life, to asking to employ one of them, I entertain that thought for a minute only to make the decision No I do not want them that close to me.

    HG your work is brilliant and never have I read a collection of writings that even come close to what I have witness. The accuracy of so many dynamics of the different categories of narcissists. The brutal truth of your words…..

  6. Insatiable Learner says:

    My first encounter with a narcissist (not the one who brought me here) was 4 years ago. It was very brief. I have never heard from him again. The beautiful thing is I don’t feel anything for him. Complete indifference. If he ever did reach out, which I highly doubt, I would have no problem whatsoever to ignore him. By allowing so much time to pass, they give us time to heal where we are no longer affected at all. For someone who thinks he is superior and brilliant, this is a very dumb move. I am now working on getting to the place of indifference for the most recent one. If anyone finds this helpful, I have recently read that after 6 months of no contact, 27% of the trauma bond is broken. Hang in there, guys! We can heal! HG, thank you for your critical role in this process of healing!

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You are welcome IL.

  7. Lisa says:

    Is it every school of narcissist that comes back HG? A friend of mine is convinced the narc she was involved with wont be back. He left abruptly and said so (in anger of course). Its been a few months now, with no contact what-so-ever. Thanks heaps.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      It is, but the school has a bearing on the likelihood of that being the case. A few months is not long, the narcissist will be in a golden period elsewhere. There is time yet.

      1. Lisa says:

        Thank you HG. Yes, thats what I thought. But…I was starting to wonder as she has not entered the first 5 spheres….

  8. redrider says:

    So many of us think we are in the clear, after a few months or a year. Mine came back after 20 yrs. I had no idea he was an N back then, or even the first few months of reconnecting. I thought he returned after all this time, because he realized what he had lost back then. Clearly, it was for fuel. And I am excellent fuel, being that I am an Empath. He is a text book N for sure. Everything HG writes, I can relate. I have found coming to this site and continuously reading and rereading has been the only way to understand what has happened. I am on the road to recovery and have gone NC. It is the only way with the N. It’s so disheartening, that so many of us encounter this type of person. But many thanks to you HG, you really have helped me.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Yu are welcome RedRider and your confirmation that a narcissist returned after 20 years evidences the repeated warnings I state concerning hoovers. It is never over until one party is dead.

      1. Amy S. says:

        This is frightening…

      2. MLA - Clarece says:

        As we age, we become more and more creatures of habit. Returning to what was once comforting and familiar seems like it could just be a normal human element rather than narcissistic though. People become very set in their ways and comfortable with their work routines or with kids (grandkids if 20 years down the pike). It may not be that odd to have someone at a girl in the road be curious about a past relationship and reach out to that person.

      3. redrider says:

        Oh yes, til death do us part

  9. ballerina9 says:

    Thank you.

  10. ballerina9 says:

    Hi HG,

    When he discarded me after 2 yrs, – on New Year’s Eve (over a dream I had had a few nights prior, like I control my dreams) , he said “I don’t feel anything anymore”

    Thanks to you, I know now it was about stale fuel ❤

    I thought he was a Greater due to his successful glamorous career.
    But would a Greater say “I don’t feel” anything”?
    Except to hurt me, as he knowingly did with his silent treatments … naturally met by my silence (super Empath in me…).

    Bowing out gracefully, as I withdraw to the Moderation Chamber, awaiting your undoubtedly most enlightening explanation.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      A Greater may well make such a comment, yes.

  11. Jenny says:

    Hi HG, it’s going to be 2 yrs at the end of June since he discarded me , around the holidays , someone I only knew through him contacted me but I kept it limited , they wanted me to call and me very thing but I never did … about 2 months ago someone else connected to him friends requested me again after we broke up , I let go of everyone connected to him , I didn’t accept . Is it safe to say I’m safe now with the hoovers being that I live 60 miles or more away from him . He used to live with me etc so he knows my routine . But can I breathe now and not worry about a Hoover ever?

  12. Amy S. says:

    I have stopped ‘feeding’ him. Not because I want to annoy him, but because I understand how he ‘works’ now. I can’t help it. Today I wasnt really bothered about him much, he kept talking all day to this girl that sits opposite me trying to get a reaction, while giving me the silent treatment. She seemed happy that he was all over her. Dread to think what he will come up with tomorrow.

  13. Lydia says:

    Hi H.G.,
    I recently escaped my mid-range ex boyfriend. He tried to hoover me, but I didn’t fall for it (thanks to your enlightenment). I ran into him the other day and completely ignored him. He tried to say hello, but I simply walked past him like he didn’t exist. Hopefully, that will be the last time he will try to engage me. From what I understand of your writings; ignoring your kind is the worst thing we can do to you. Am I correct in my assessment? I can’t imagine he would come back around to only be ignored yet again…?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Hello Lydia,

      You did the right thing. We hate being ignored. It wounds us and also makes some of our kind think twice about contacting you again. He may contact you again dependent on other factors which apply to the Hoover Execution Criteria.

      1. Lydia says:

        Thank you!! I finally feel like I’m getting my life back. Please keep the information coming as I would have been so lost without your insight. I am eagerly awaiting your book on the “Creature”. I’ve already downloaded several of your books and I’ve recommended your site to a lot of my friends. Knowledge is indeed POWER.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Thank you Lydia, there is plenty more to come.

  14. M. says:

    What you write is happening with my last narcissist. The one that made me read and read and read until finally, months ago, I found your blog. I kept reading and this time I started understanding and learning. I think he is a mid range, quite clever but not as clever as you. He can’t be a greater. I also realised, thanks to you, that there have been other narcissists in my life. Two, at least, maybe more . However, although as I’ ve told you, the last one is a different case,and gave me the worst time in my life, I got over the two others quite easily. They both hoovered, one of them for many years, but they meant nothing anymore, so it didn’t work for them. And they were text book narcissists, I know that now from your writings. So, I suppose it also has to do with our own state. When we are younger, it is much easier to really go on. Also, their hoovers were malign and especially one of them frightened me, so I ran. The last one, though, is not like that. Always benign. His hoovers, I mean-because, when I was his IPPS, for some months, he was horrible too. But you have explained that too, of course.

  15. G says:

    Since he is moving to another country , I am definitely free!
    He lost !the game and his job

  16. Mona says:

    Well, in my case the probability that he dies first, is very high. He is male, he is a little bit older and I only have to wait patiently. His blood pressure is high, he has too much weight, he drinks too much covertly. I know him very well, he is not keen on violence to woman. So, what should happen? His lies and denials and his smearing worked only with his friends. He can`t go further, I know some secrets about him and he knows that I have no reason to keep them secret, if he tries to hoover.
    And I have some waterproof evidence about these secrets. He must rely on my conscience or loyalty. But there is no loyalty or conscience any more on my side. The only thing I have to do is to wait, like a spider in her web. His dependence on fuel could be my advantage. There is no “spell” anymore, there is no anxiety/fear anymore. I am not keen on someone who is ill, has a antisocial tendency and has thin eyebrows. This artificial hologram is – sorry – uninteresting for me.
    Your blog is not. Sometimes your writing remembers me of halloween or those clowns who were everywhere three years ago. Well, some of those clowns paid for their horror.

  17. Unbothered says:

    You give yourselves way too much credit! I had an ex jump out in front of me because I was ignoring him. I calmly told him “it’s not going to happen”, he replied “yes it is”. Now why would he think he knows me better than I know me. When you ask them why would I want you back,they just get a blank look!

  18. Pamela Bergner says:


    Your kind are amazing. I read a book once, about a schitzophrenicwho tried a new med. For the first time in THIRTY years, his voices hrew silint and he heard the morning birdsong.

    I pray for the day an effective medicine for NPD comes on the market.

    Your kind have so much talent to offer humanity. Your parents really really did wrong by you.

    I appreciate all your explanations help me understand what goes on through your minds.

    Thank you so much for sharing.

    Sincerely (yours)

    Pam B.

    On Apr 18, 2017 1:24 PM, “Knowing the Narcissist” wrote:

    > HG Tudor posted: ” The word ‘discard’ is well-known in the lexicon of > the narcissistic world. It forms one of the four cornerstones of the > narcissistic embrace. The seduction, the devaluation, the discard and the > hoover. Discard brings with it a sense of finality. The i” >

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Thank you Pamela.

    2. Maria says:

      Pamela Bergner

      there is a medicine: it is call Will Power.

      I believe that they can change.
      They have to want it.

  19. lansealan says:

    “I may decide that I require you again for the purposes of triangulation. I may want the new primary source to pump out even more positive fuel because they feel threatened by your re-appearance.”

    Ahh, no wonder after the honeymoon golden era and during the initial silent treatment, I found her with the previous primary source celebrating new years (for four days). Of course this was the demonized devalued ex who used to beat her and who loved her like no other…lol. When confronted afterwards with the indisputable facts…she feigned the ole’ “I’m trully sorry! We didn’t do anything! He slept on the couch! I was just getting closure!” What got me the most was when she said “I was thinking about YOU the whole time and I was just talking with him about how wonderful you were!” What a crock of crap that was…too funny as I look back.

  20. workrelatedok says:

    “The only true discard of our toxic entanglement is when of us dies. Only then is there finality.”

    Then I might as well finish this now. Today I’m holding onto the promise of a dear friend who knows I read…and read.

    “And so we came forth, and once again beheld the stars”. Dante Alighieri

  21. Lydia says:

    Hi H.G.,
    I recently escaped my mid-range ex boyfriend. He tried to hoover me, but I didn’t fall for it (thanks to your enlightenment). I ran into him the other day and completely ignored him. He tried to say hello, but I simply walked past him like he didn’t exist. Hopefully, that will be the last time he will try to engage me. From what I understand of your writings; ignoring your kind is the worst thing we can do to you. Am I correct in my assessment? I can’t imagine he would come back around to only be ignored yet again…?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You did the right thing because ignoring will wound us but it also means that you are not allowing us an opportunity to engage you and awaken the emotional infection. Your action will raise the hoover bar on the hoover execution criteria because he is Mid Range and your act will cause a “once bitten twice shy” reaction. He may hoover however if there are other factors which lower the bar. One has to take number of factors into account.

  22. Twilight says:

    Death is but an end to this existence

  23. MLA - Clarece says:

    HG, you are aware of of the correspondence I emailed JN exposing him from a “third party’s” perspective. The next day he asked me to leave him alone. There has been NC since April 3rd. It stayed eerily quiet thru the Easter holiday. I’m assuming he’s tending to his wounds. With his track record, and what you wrote in this article, should I expect a harsher malign Hoover from him than I’ve gotten in the past at some point, if at all? If it’s true, he’ll be out to punish me?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      He will benign hoover you as he maintains the belief he can win you over as he considers you easy prey (irrespective of who you have dealt with him but because you have continued to do so) but if you resist him this time he will swiftly turn malign.

      1. MLA - Clarece says:

        Thank you very much HG!

  24. indiglowsky says:

    I have a brilliant (In my mind that is) idea! You could help us “disappear”! I know your books do a lovely job showing us how your kind finds us and your tools. But, this could be a service you offer, like in consults and such, or in a book even. How to vanish off the map so that little devil cannot find you! Thoughts?
    OK, if you can’t tell already, feeling a bit vulnerable now to being tracked.


    1. HG Tudor says:

      Indeed I can and have done so in several consults.

      1. Amy S. says:

        What would you suggest to someone who needs to work with a mid-Ranger. You know my history as we corresponded. Is there anything I could do? Should I suddenly disappear, as in change jobs? Will he go after me? Will he torture me for 2 years I’m planning to stay here? I can pay for advice if you want

        1. HG Tudor says:

          1. Changing jobs is no contact and therefore the most effective.
          2. Change roles/departments etc within the existing company to escape day to day involvement.
          3. If you go elsewhere a work connected MR is highly unlikely to pursue you (unless there is a romantic element also)
          4. Will he torture you if you remain? You will certainly be subjected to his machinations if you do.

    2. 12345 says:

      The witness protection program but HG could offer it as the Narc Protection Program. Brilliant.

      1. indiglowsky says:

        Love that idea!

      2. Victoria says:

        I agree 100% 12345

  25. Karma says:

    Perfect timing for this post!!! Exposed to massive Hoover campaign right now! The N is a text book example and I needed to read this not to fall for his BS!
    Brilliant work as usual HG👌🏻

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Thank you.

  26. indiglowsky says:

    This persistence and stalker like nature, never ending, always trying to find ways in…..is this with all levels, schools, types of narcissists? It seems like those with more energy, sociopathy (or psychopathy for some) the more likely this will endure for life and will find a way to find you. Is this true or am I trying to soothe myself? Mine has not tried to contact me since X-Mas and feeling really good about that. I have hope again that there will be no hoover by anyone of them from my past. I know, I keep hoping…this is MY pattern. I have my guard up, will kept vigilant, and I watch what people know about my location. Though, it seems anyone can find anyone with very little to go on. I keep my phone number private, I never answer unknowns, and I never respond to unknown emails. My FB is private. But, all they need is one thing….ugh.

  27. giulia says:

    I don’t know HG, you really seem to be very serious about this but life has it’s creative way to level things out.
    I know you believe your kind can control all things but the truth is you can’t.
    You can’t statistically, mathematically, phisically.
    You set things in a certain way but the end result will be something else.
    You should prepare to accept it whatever it is.
    I don’t feel doomed, my future is not written in stones and most of all nobody knows it.
    I truly feel this thing with my ex has worn out…that’s how it will end…slowly maybe but surely towards the dissipation of all memories and emotions.

  28. Jday says:

    After 7 discards and hoovers in one year..my NC did his final discard about 8 months ago. I have blocked him on everything, but it is not that hard to get in contact with someone through other means etc…does this mean I am finally free? 8 months seems like a long time since all his previous discards were never for more than 2 weeks..

    1. HG Tudor says:

      No you are not free.
      1. The previous occasions were not ‘discards’.
      2. There is no such thing as a ‘final discard’ – do see the article by that name.
      3. The 8 months does seem like a long time Jday, but this is because he is focussed elsewhere.

      Keep up your no contact and you will minimise the risk to you.

      1. Victoria says:

        Hi HG,
        I just re-read this article and it get’s to me every time. You plainly spell it out for us victims but yet why is it so difficult for us to understand, at least for me. How do I extract that one tendril from my life. Is their a way besides “no contact” I sometimes feel like I will never be free of the memories, the connection. And I so want to be.
        Thank you 🙂

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