The Narcissistic Truths – No. 12

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155 thoughts on “The Narcissistic Truths – No. 12”

  1. This one is troubling. The overwhelming feeling of despair and morbidity have blocked my sense to discern the picture. Eyes are the window to soul. Is it depicting born empty? I can’t get image to erase from my mind so I figure something I need to understand here. Interpretation needed.

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  2. The pic still creeps me out. I now have learned I can’t fix any of this for you. I can only choose my choices in my situation and continue learning from you. I still have much to learn. Will you put an expanded version to this one, or, does it remain too raw? I do wish you peace.

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      1. I’m sorry! I also have demons that haunt me from past. I wish you the power to someday find love and peace. For me it is to late and it will never happen. I have finally realized that! You still have a chance! Seize the power that is inside of you and make it happen!

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      1. HG! This image together with the “Haunted Chamber” that you just loaded on you tube,explains everything…It speaks for itself…it was the trigger wasn’t it? Was it when the ” creature” was born?

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      2. Right HG. But thee image.. What exactly is it trying to say specifically? That you were always ‘haunted’.. by other children?

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  3. I couldn’t quite work it out either, but the images look like lost souls to me. I’m not sure if we are the lost souls or the narcissist is a lost soul, or both.

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    1. Both.

      But awareness and understanding opens the door to not being aimlessly lost. I thank you HG, whatever your motives, for opening that door.

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  4. Looks like a group of pitiful empath victims, blinded by what they can’t see (The Narc’s manipulative tactics). Reaching out because they don’t know who they are anymore – they’re ‘lost’.

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    1. Sarahjane, I think it’s all of us. We’re all lost – the empaths and the narcs. We’re all damaged from toxic relationships that should have helped and supported us. All instinctively reaching out for something that we can’t see….but know we desperately need.

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  5. Embryonic

    Never born into full maturity
    Never born into full love
    Never born into accountability

    Born, but scorched
    Born, but corrupted
    Born, but not to full life

    Kidnapped by malicious forces
    Kidnapped and re- programmed
    Kidnapped and used

    Satan

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  6. I don’t usually cry, but this image has made my eyes watery. So sorry. The image, according to me, shows children that yearn for love and attention, but they do not receive it from their parents, and that is how they slowly turn into these soulless people.

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    1. My interpretation too and to expand, they always seek to reach for that approval but have been abusively conditioned to be silent and bury their pain over it.

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  7. This image is heartbreaking. All those lost souls. This shouldn’t happen to anyone. Apologies are viewed as weakness in your world, but not in mine; I am sorry for the abuse you suffered, you deserved better.

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  8. Children without eyes in deep agony and pain, desperately asking for help. They look as if they were almost dead. It is distressing and heart-breaking.

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  9. A choice was made to abandon what was considered to be weak, locked away forever.
    I am so very sorry you were put in a position to have to make that choice.
    Yet if this choice was never made many would still be stumbling in the dark, you would never have become HG Tudor.
    You deserve to find a peace from the battle within, in what best suits you and not what others believe it should look like.

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      1. There is always a choice. However, some options, whilst presenting a choice, cannot ever be regarded as viable. I made the viable choice although I could readily argue I had no choice.

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      2. As a child it is a choice to abandon the emotions and pick up another way to survive.
        This is how I do interpret this picture.
        SVR
        At this point in time I am also witnessing a child make this decision to which I am going to do everything I can to change. My heart is broken because I know now what has been done over the last two years.
        Please forgive me if I am coming across angry, it is not directed at anyone. Yet it is coming out in weird ways.

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      3. Twilight I am also witnessing a child, one of my own, make the same choice.
        I now realise he was being used as a scapegoat from birth. My heart breaks for not seeing it sooner but I was blindfolded by the fog.

        I can’t change what’s in the past but like you, will do every single thing within my power to try and change the choice I think he has made, without him sensing my trying to!

        May the force be with us! The light side, not the dark.

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      4. The force, yes Lol. Yet even darkness is needed to see the light.
        I am encouraging a change, it is the dominant person in her life thou that I have to watch. We don’t see eye to eye.

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      5. Apologies. I just replied to this thread and referenced Angelic but meant SVR’s “so power to escape the turmoil? The only way as a child I suppose.”

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      6. I am starting to believe that because we all have freedom of choice, being a narcissist or not
        (and we all have our demons)
        we all choose, and if the narcissist remain so, it is a choice.

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      7. I don’t know, HG. People make choices in ignorance all the time. I heard a very disturbing comment the other day. One person admitted to being an agnostic and not believing in hell. The other person was shocked! He said, “How can you not believe in hell? If it wasn’t for fear of hell, society would fall apart. We’d all only do what we wanted and everyone would steal, cheat and kill one another!”
        Hearing this horrified me and made me wonder how many people thought like this? That only the fear of God and eternal damnation kept them decent? But it also seems to illustrate that narcissists can choose better behavior while not knowing what they are.

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      8. Fair point Windstorm2 but the comment was directed at suggesting that narcissist’s have a choice. If that person does not know what they are, it cannot be an informed choice can it. For instance, if you chose to eat a particular food unaware you were allergic to it,could you be condemned for that choice? If you then became aware of that allergy but still chose to eat a particular food which caused an allergic reaction, one might question the sense in such a choice because that choice is being made from a position of knowledge.
        Yes, I understand why you state the narcissist might choose better behaviour but remember from our perspective that is the appropriate behaviour for our needs, it is viewed as inappropriate from YOUR perspective.
        As to your comment about the fear of God etc keeping them decent, well this was the prevailing view for hundreds of years in medieval Europe.

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      9. Midevil Europe and modern day rural America.
        I understand your point, and would just posit that lack of understanding goes hand in hand with decisions made in ignorance. And decisions made in ignorance may just as easily be correct as incorrect.

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      10. Windstorm2

        I hope you don’t mind me jumping in, what about decisions that are made subconsciously that then define your core values? Wouldnt this effect every decision you make from this point on? Consciousnesses or subconsciously. In either case wouldn’t a sense of what you believe to be the driving force of what dictates a persons choice through out life? I do believe with an awareness behavioral changes can be made, I just don’t know if ones core can be change, it is your default setting and one you will always turn to instinctively.

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      11. My personal opinion is that we are all born with inherited genetic traits. I believe a narcissists limited emotions are genetic (based on the family children I have observed from their birth). But how narcissistic a child becomes depends a large part in how they are raised. I know from personal experience that love and training can teach a little potential narcissist how other people feel emotions and how that behavior affects others. They can learn how to gather the fuel they need without leaving a trail of destruction. If a four year old can learn

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      12. I agree with you that it is an inherent trait, yet so is empathy to which means some lean more to the emphatic side, some to the narcissistic side, then some are balanced.
        Yes I believe one can learn behaviors that are not so destructive and still gather the fuel they need. Starting one off at a young age this is an easier path to encourage, as an adult it would have more challenges.
        Anything that has been repeated to oneself becomes embedded into the subconscious, to change behaviors you must change the subconscious message you believe. Very challenging, yet not impossible.
        Your genetic makeup is your core, is the very foundation of you. This you can not change.
        I would agree with your observation with a child that is in a loving and caring home, once this trait is activated they can be taught ways to gather fuel and not be destructive. Yet when this trait is activated in an abusive environment they will hone their abilities to survive. An empath in the same situation will hone their abilities to survive. One of the strongest instincts we have is self preservation.
        This is my personal view of things

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      13. Sorry my comment was sent prematurely. If a four year old can learn how to treat others with compassion and still meet his fuel needs, a grown man can as well.
        Core values can be changed as we learn new truths.

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      14. I suppose, Twilight, as I read your questions again, that I don’t believe our subconscious defines our core values. In the ways that subconscious choices define us, I believe they can be overruled and transformed by our conscious choices. To me this is an effect of learning and part of the definition of wisdom.

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      15. Windstorm2 I thought about it after I had written that, and our subconscious are the messages we say to ourself, our core I believe comes from our genetic makeup, this is out foundation of who we are. Now can we alter behaviors, yes to which is a conscience choice. Anything we react to is subconscious anything we respond to is conscience. A greater is the only one I believe can make the conscious choice in their behavior, yet this isn’t going to be something that will be overnight and they have to see an upside in doing so. They are not children and can still be molded, their beliefs are set.
        My favorite saying is
        Knowledge speaks, wisdom listens
        A lot of this goes on within this blog on both sides.

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      16. Twilight, I agree with much of what you say. But I believe every person has the ability to learn and grow. We all can learn to respond consciously. We are not necessarily doomed to only react. This is separate from our genetic makeup.
        To me that’s a large part of what separates humans from other animals. While we are born with certain instincts, they don’t have to rule our behavior. Our intellect and cerebral plasticity enables up to rise above our instinctual behavior. Our physical situation may be outside of our control, but our mind is limitless. And I believe it is our mind that makes us who we are.

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      17. Windstorm
        I am still agreeing with you on many parts.
        With awareness comes change.
        Imagine how one that can take subconscious to consciousness. Our minds are extremely powerful, we limit ourself for by our beliefs.
        If you tell yourself you can’t, you never will.
        Yet I believe nature is balance positive and negative, to much of the other throws things off.
        Until a lessor or mid accepts what they are, they will always stay in a place of reaction. Change will only happen with a greater, due to the awareness and the control they already possess, they just need to see the upside. Will they ever “feel” empathy no they are not made to, the best they can ever get is cognitive empathy.
        There is another aspect thou the addiction to fuel. This is why I believe it is so hard for an adult to change and see the upside. They are afraid to give up this way of life because they know it works to get this “rush” they so desperately need. This is coming from a body’s way of rewarding itself. The feel good hormone dopamine and happy hormone serotonin. The body doesn’t recognize good or bad behavior only this behavior induces these hormones. It is the environment that teaches which behavior is best suited to induce this reaction within. The habit is now entwined as a belief.

        Have you ever tried to change your belief in anything, especially one that you believe your very existence depends on?

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      18. Yes, twilight, I agree they will only be able to feel cognitive empathy. My daughter has two boys. The 2 year old is very colorblind and the 4 year old is lacking some emotions. They have been this way from birth. She works hard to teach them both how to compensate so they can be successful in a colorful, emotion-filled world. But she can’t “fix” them – only teach them how to cope the best they can.

        Your comment about addiction, dopamine and serotonin reminded me of Indy’s reference the other day to the realm of the hungry ghosts in Tibetan Buddhism. Been checking that out and it plays right into all forms of addiction.

        I have changed my beliefs on many many things in the course of my life, many very essential and many about myself. I was raised that the most important thing in life is to keep an open mind and be willing to change (ive never changed THAT belief!😄).
        I’ve always said that libraries all over the world are filled with things I don’t know. I am not the woman I hope to become, yet. I am a work in progress, so learning and change are essential for me.

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      19. Windstorm2
        Your daughter has an advantage of recognizing this, yet the perspective of the one that is lacking in emotions will be different due to never experiencing them. It will be a challenge.
        Lol I have a deep love for books and libraries.
        Yes her reference caught my attention to. I just have had no time to looking much into it but to briefly glance at what I googled.
        My core beliefs have never changed, they are the same today as they were when I was younger. Yet I have a very open mind. Water, air, light, sound it all flows, such is the energy that surrounds us. We are nothing but pure energy in a conscience state, It is when we hang on to a moment in this flow we get stuck and things become congested and stops. In energy there is always a positive and a negative.

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      20. Yes. That’s a big advantage in my husbands family. It’s full of alcoholics and every one is taught about the 12 steps and problems with alcoholics – including narcissism. Thru the influence of my mother and father-in-law, my generation learned how to protect ourselves and our children from the chaos and abuse. Now my children and their cousins are passing this knowledge on to their children. There are still alcoholics and narcissists, but nothing is hidden, and knowledge is power!
        Your comment about getting stuck in the present reminds me of a philosophy I studied. It was that only the present is real. The past is over and the future not here. Therefore we must live only in the present. But like you said we can not get stuck in it, bc as soon as we do, it has become the past and we’re thinking about the future. We must live moment to moment. Everything else is illusion. This philosophy called the energy you described as the creative force of the universe. 😊

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      21. Life is the greatest teacher, yet change comes in the form of children and the knowledge the acquire. This can be either positive or negative.
        In this particular area and what HG is doing, I believe change will happen over time. He has a unique way of approaching this subject and introducing it where it is understood by many. It is a matter of being open minded and getting over what was done to you (people) and actually listening to hear and not react. I have spoken to many and it goes one of two ways, I will never listen to what a narc has to say in this subject, which is sad due to you will never get the correct perspective listening to Empaths to who is this person I would like to learn more.
        Knowledge is power and with this change can happen.
        Thank you windstorm2. I am back to my very quick in and out due to I am going back to work. Yet I would love to discuss what your thoughts are on this particular philosophy.
        Have a wonderful day!

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      22. Twilight, the one constant in life is change. We just have to accept that and stay open to it and the knowledge and wisdom that it brings. There are important things we can learn from every situation and person in our lives, including the narcissists.
        I am fortunate that at this point in my life I am retired, so I have plenty of time to meditate and think. Goodness knows that wasn’t always true! I enjoy sharing thoughts with you, too. You have a great rest of your week! ❤️

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      23. Windstorm2 yes life is always in a constant motion, never stoping.
        For me I adore the Greaters that I know and have known. The first taught me strategy and control (Control of myself), the second well that is something that will remain between him and I, the third I am learning much from, I respect him and adore him. I don’t agree with his methods, yet my awareness to things, he is helping bring from subconscious to the conscience

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      24. Windstorm2
        Please don’t think I am trying to push my opinion I am not.

        I do agree with you on the fact our minds become more as we become more aware. We all just progress at different speeds.

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      25. Twilight, that is the beauty of a forum like this. We can all share our opinions and experiences and learn from one another. We don’t have to agree. In fact if we all agreed, we wouldn’t be learning! No one I know agrees with all of my beliefs. The nicest thing my thinking is called is eccentric! And I’m fine with that.
        My father had a saying, “Listen to every fools advice, then make up your own mind.” I’m just another fool out there with her own opinions. Everyone’s reality and truths are different. We all have to make up our own minds based on our own reality. I really enjoy hearing what you think. 😊

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      26. Windstorm2 so true, I respect everyone’s opinion I do get a little feisty when one wants to force their opinion as fact, it is misleading and can be destructive, yet at times can be shown as an example of the topic being discussed.
        I have enjoyed reading your views and opinions to.

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  10. Explains alot. An abusive past does not guarantee that someone will be abusive in the future. However, if one has endured abuse as a child, and has been raised in an environment with certain ideas about how to treat others in relationships, and add to that cultural values and ideas, it is possible the person will also turn out to be abusive. I have known others who were abused and today they do not abuse others. There are other factors that contribute to someone being abusive later in life. It is all about control.
    Just like an addict. An addict is not always an abuser of others. But we tend to think this way about them and it is unfair.

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  11. I counted ten abused children. If estimation is right, only one and a half of them will be a narcissist later. Took 15 % as a basis. The rest of them will probably suffer from narcissists in their life, will be abused all life long.

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      1. And does “normal” really exist? (Not to intrude on your questions, SVR,sorry, just a thought I often have about this idea of normal. This is a discussion that often happens by those that often work with/live with/care for those outside of the spectrum of “normal”).

        I have often doubted this concept of “normal”, though we use it as a benchmark to classify people and diagnose. But, indeed, what IS normal and is it always more adaptive?

        **I understand, HG, you use the description of “normal” as someone not overly narcissistic and not possessing the “special traits” of empathy that your kind look for**.

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      2. NA,
        He he. Mine are labeled, “What the?” and those thoughts are gaslit away by myself. You see, I “narc” myself now…LOL

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      3. I class myself as normal now.
        I always knew that there was something missing in me but had no idea what until my narc experience. I spent a lot of time in sorting me out and now I reap the rewards. I take no nonsense now, I say NO, I do not feel guilty even half as much if at all, I don’t say sorry all the time, I don’t offer help unless I want to as don’t feel obliged anymore, I love life, I love myself at last, I realise I have done myself proud in my education at last, I allow people to love me truly now, I could go on but I think you will get it. So normal in my opinion does exist. It’s like HG says ‘ in the middle’, healthy empathic and narcistic traits.

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      4. Yippee SVR!!!!! I am sooooo happy for you that you have found that balance, draw those boundaries, and draw on your strength! It is a beautiful place to be in life, to feel “normal” and you definitely should feel proud of this. It is a courageous journey. Balance is key to mental health and most things in nature. The middle is a good play to be.

        Now, I do not classify myself as normal, for differing reasons, though I am growing stronger and stronger as years go on. I am not one to take someone’s BS and I have a warrior-ess in me, yes I have fight in me. From those scars, from those pains that have dug deep, I have strength. I have reached the point of gratitude, being thankful for being tested. When I find meaning in life’s challenges, I know I can survive them and thrive from them. Including my dances with narcissists. I needed it, honestly, to grow to my potential. (not condoning abuse, though I think everyone and everything has a reason and purpose). I do not think of myself as a normal because I never really started out as such. I was not taught boundaries, I was told to be seen, not heard, and was ruled by a confusing blend of strict authoritarian with an odd laissez-faire (neglect) flavor. Confusing, huh? What are the rules, as I didn’t know. They changed always. Now I draw boundaries, say No (magic power word!), and do not compromise my values. A work in progress. I can feel what some cannot feel because I have been there. I love this about me. Maybe, for me, my normal is not textbook normal, but….it is OK 🙂
        And yes, a blend of empathic and narcissistic traits is very healthy and I am so happy to hear you love yourself. That is pretty powerful!! Thank you so much for sharing your inspiring journey. You go girl!

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      5. If I was a narc that could be a little fuel possibly lol! Thank you for your kind words. All of you on here have helped me at the end of my journey to figure the last pieces out. Amazing bunch. I will keep going 😃 Like you I needed this experience to meet the real me. I do love me (but hey a girl always needs to lose that little bit of weight) but that can wait lol! I have had 3 years plus of what I call utter hell but I sought answers. The answers came as I was determined. An empath after all, is that not right HG? 😉 My journey has been incredible and I have grown up, empathic individuals in a way can be childlike by always wanting to make people happy for praise while narcs want to prison people to them for the praise they require, so they are little people to. Stunted growth in both but we can sort ours out if we get down deep and search. There were surprises in store for me which I now can handle as have full understanding. I have also become aware of manipulation to get what you want but I will use it in a nice way, but it will be used if I need chocolate. Ha ha. Listen to your intuition as that’s your most powerful tool in the empath box of tricks. Good luck x

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    1. I spent two hours last night listening to an old John Bradshaw lecture. The abuse is bad but the real factor in what one ultimately becomes is that the abuse victim had no one to talk to about it or process it. It’s all that repressed rage that is the problem.

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  12. I only see it from a different angle. I do not rely on the %, but there are no others. I hope, my last sentence will not come true and many of them ” seize the power.”

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    1. I am actually starting to wonder the opposite..
      they might have an enhanced emotional instinct, which happens to be different from our “perceptions” of feelings.

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      1. I have thoroughly confused myself here….replied to too many threads too late last night! I did mean to reference this post from Angelic afterall HG…specifically linked to mine still in moderation about my baby son being held by a friend – who we didn’t at the time know was an alcoholic – and screaming until he was back safe in my arms again.

        You’ve only posted half my response though which means it doesn’t make sense….You’ve done that a couple of times with me….can you let me know why as I don’t get it. If you didn’t approve of my comment then why post half of it at all, or is that how you let us know you don’t approve??

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      2. Not at all, it means I may have not picked up on it being stated in two sections and one part has been moderated and the other has not. That is all there is to it. Perhaps aim to include it all in one post!

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      3. I had included it all in one post, the only separate bit was me correcting myself (incorrectly) on who I was referencing….if that makes sense.

        I think what I’ll aim to do is not look at your site or reply to threads late at night when I should be sleeping instead.

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      4. Super HG, thank you. Just as well someone round here can keep their head when all about them are losing theirs right? 😂

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      5. Fair enough

        if any person do not know that his/her behaviour is hurtful .. then it is difficult to change gear..

        But eventually soon or later when hurt people bring the hurtful behaviour to the light.. then is when the narcissist should try to change..

        That applies to narcissists or not.

        When we are told repeatedly that some actions are hurtful.. that is when we all should take it seriously and seek for changes.

        The problem actually, i think , it is that in society nowadays such hurtful narcissistic behaviour it is mostly accepted.

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      6. It’s a possibility.
        I ponder over one thing, over and over. Why is it when HG said to his doctors: I don’t feel empathy, I don’t feel love, I can’t cry, I’m unable to feel joy..
        dint that give the doctors a pause? Not even a little bit?
        Instead they tried to force the tears out of him.
        It gave no one a pause.
        Because it’s kinda important. It’s kinda overlooked, it’s kinda dismissed in the entire personality disorder theory.
        Am I the only one it gives a pause?

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      7. We only have HG’s perspective of how the sessions go and how he related to them (understandably) . Whose to say both doctors did not? Their version may be that they are dealing with a very defiant, stubborn patient always testing them.

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      8. That is a fair point but I convey the accuracy of what is said during the sessions (I record them) and my own view of what was going on is written later.

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      9. Yes, you parroted what I said that what is written later on is from your perspective. You may also feel wounded and / or criticized by something one of the doctors asked or said, even when listening back to the recording although the intent may not have been for that on the side of the doctor. We will never know that. That is what happens with many of your personal relationships / friendships etc. (feeling wounded by something from your perspective that was a criticism but from theirs was not intended that way at all.)

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      10. Clarece
        That is a very good point. He can only tell us from his perspective so that is all we know. I believe what he tells us is what he sees, but he admits they see things like criticism when it is not there. It would be interesting to hear the Doctors theories and findings but I will still default to what he tells me and sort through that myself.

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      11. Absolutely! I completely trust that HG is being honest about his exchanges with the doctors to us. I’m not questioning that at all. It’s his version from his perspective tied in with his life experiences and views of people.
        All the stories I’ve shared about JN, if he were to come on here, he’d report a completely different angle of me probably being an obsessive, stalking, drunk with jealousy conspiracy theorist. Somewhere in the middle is the truth (leaning to mine more, lol)

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      12. Clarece
        Made me laugh. His side did seem to roll off your tongue pretty quickly…..
        I heard somewhere the definition of stalking is just two people taking a walk, only one is not aware.
        Whats that on your cheek……..looks like glitter…….

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      13. Well…he smeared me, right to me, so I know good and GD well what he would spin here if given the chance. lol

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      14. Clarence, this is because there are no further statements about the lack of positive emotions in the entire NPD theory. It ends at no empathy, no remorse, no tears. So let’s make him cry in therapy..
        Nobody asks the question why, nobody.
        If it gave anyone a pause, there would be further inquiry into this, but there isn’t because first, emotions are dismissed as anything serious, and second they don’t fit into the false personality disorder theory.
        As it turns out, emotions are central to understanding narcissism. Without them, you don’t understand the concept of fuel, the driving force behind all narcissist actions, and I mean all. It is evidence that the lack of emotions is central to the disorder, not a personality.

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  13. One of my favourite scenes ❤

    "I pray to Mr. Daumer this sheet with kindness and will to read. Days ago I had sown my name in full with the crescent seedlings. It had come all very well. He had given me such a great joy that now I can not even describe it.
    And yesterday, coming back from the boat ride I saw that somebody had entered the garden and completely trampled my name. So I cried, for a long time. But I still want to sow my name."

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  14. My Narc sister used to compete with me as to who had the worse childhood. I am quite ok with her winning that one. In fact she must at some level have suffered more.

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  15. This picture does hurt, perhaps because we can all see ourselves in there(narcissists, addicts, co-dependents, those with bpd, women who “love too much”, etc.). It reminds me of the idea from Chinese Buddhism, the Realm of the Hungry Ghosts. The realm of existence of deep suffering. Some have applied it to those who suffer from all types of addictions, including relationship addictions. This aching emptiness that craves to be filled. It started young for all of us…..we crave to be seen, loved and heard. To be filled by another when only ourselves can do it.

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    1. Unfortunately, no matter how hard I try, the notion of complete and total self-love sustaining yourself first before someone else can, just escapes me. I’m self aware enough to know that it goes back to how I was raised and my very strict Catholic upbringing instilled that “God created two, so they shall become one in Christ”, deters me somehow from breaking past that. I feel a void. I feel incomplete. It has made me shun religion as an adult and only take my daughter to church for C&E (Christmas & Easter) with my family to ensure she isn’t programmed the way I was.
      Sorry, I’m just having a frustrating day feeling roadblocked. I logically hear the words but it just doesn’t get absorbed “in” my brain the right way. lol

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      1. Keep focused. Remember bad days are allowed, it’s part of healing so no beating yourself up. Rest and tomorrow is another day. You survived the day which after all that’s happened is amazing. Keep strong. Rooting for you. Thank you for all you share on here. It helps.

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      2. Hello SVR, Well if I said something that helped you, I am very grateful for that. Thank you so much for the pep talk. I’m rooting for you as well and always follow your comments with great interest. You add a lot of value here.

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      3. Empaths love pep talks 😂😂
        Remember that saying be kind to yourself and practice it as I am sure you have preached it. Yes your contribution is valuable to me and I do like to comment on here as I am just about recovered after a lot of hard work. Life is sweet and never ever go backwards as it’s not got anything good to give you. Thank you for your kind words. Hope today has been better. Maybe we should start an empath blog, but wait don’t think I know as much as HG about our kind. He is something else (blowing your trumpet=a little fuel) 😄

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      4. I agree that is possible. I have my own private relationship with God. It’s just not dictated to me any longer by a Priest who cannot marry, have a relationship or raise children but yet instruct me how to lead my life.

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      5. Best way. Mans way is not always Gods way.
        Gods way is best though. Bible has so much wisdom and gems of life in there. It’s a good teaching tool for life and how to live abundantly.

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      6. Hi MLA,
        No need for being sorry at all. Most of us of us here on this blog struggle with this. I still do too, though I’ve gotten better. You see it when you stand up for yourself and no longer remain in unhealthy relationships and take time to heal before getting involved wth another person. You see it grow when you draw and keep boundaries. I still yearn for a partner to share my life with though I will not sacrifice the woman I am for that goal. That is how I know I’m healing toward this self love. I was raised in a strict Catholic home too, that dogma is hard to reprogram, I get you!! And, I sense you are a very strong woman that is on that path of growth. Don’t strive for perfection, just progression. That’s all we all can do. We are in the same boat sweety ((hugs)).

        I did the same with my son, I kept him out of the church to protect him too.

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      7. I chuckled at your closing line that you kept your son out of church to protect him too. Such irony isn’t it? lol Is that Dogma re-programmable? My mother’s answer to any problem is to pray to whatever Patron Saint has that cause, say a Novena and go light candles at the church… God bless her, I love her, but I realized when I left home I needed waaaay better coping skills.
        I truly adore the company I am with in this same boat. I appreciate very much the time and thought you took to respond.
        Oh, and it still escaped me to get through those last two chapters in “Science of Evil”. Ridiculous how long it’s taking me to finish that but I was pretty busy this weekend. I haven’t forgotten to respond to you on that either!! Hugs back!

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      8. Hi MLA,
        I do think that dogma can be lessened, though it is in there. My father said to me during a fight with him about the Church “You were born a Catholic, you will die a Catholic” in his deep baritone military voice. Little did I know then that he was right. I still feel it in me. Even my son, who was not raised in the Church (and this is irony) he got a tattoo of the rosary. I told him, “you have to earn that tattoo, with time on your knees and prayers memorized.” He looked at me like I had four heads. It was my father speaking through me from the grave LOL
        Well, I think we keep what works for us and we can work on what doesn’t 🙂 My spirituality is like a quilt. I keep pieces here and there and stitch them together. I light candles, incense, and cry when in a beautiful cathedral. I bless myself with water when I enter. And, I do not believe the Pope is infallible, that women are inferior, etc. So many stories. I had a boyfriend about 15 years ago come to church with me and my mother (per her request) and he put the communion in his pocket for later!!!! I almost died laughing and in a little horror too…hahahaha….and I was/am an agnostic and I still feel that…you don’t pocket Jesus! LOL

        Hugssss

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      9. Indy, my faith is a patchwork quilt of many religions as well. I actually became a Catholic bc it was the most openminded, tolerant church in my area! I think if you’re a convert after Vatican 2, the experience is very different from being raised Catholic.
        My husband gave me the choice of raising our kids vegetarians or Christians and I opted for Christians. Ha, ha! They had my catholic (little “c”) influence to keep them openminded. The problem I see in many Catholics and most religions is believing that truth is a constant, not a fluid that changes constantly with your reality.

        Liked by 1 person

      10. Hahahaha….vegetarian or Christian. You are so correct. The last time I went to a Catholic church, it was about 10 years ago and I was floored at the fact that they allowed people to receive communion without confession. I grew up in a Roman Catholic Church in New England in an Irish American home. Lord lord lord….I was sooo glad to hear the new pope and his views. You are in TN, right? I believe you are probably correct on the Catholic Church being the most tolerant in your area! In Vermont in the 80’s, it was the Baptist and UU churches as being more tolerant. LOL. (A swap with the south, where the Baptists will kick your booty).

        BTW, I tried to indoctrinate my son in vegetarianism when he was young, though my parents would sneak him bacon and chicken. One day, while I was feeding him some soy based chicken nugget (he was 4 at the time), he said, “Mom, I want meat with a bone!” I nearly died! I called my parents immediately…the confessed. LOL My son has been a carnevorse ever since.

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      11. KY Indy. I was raised in the Church of Christ, which was ludicrously strict and closed minded in the 60’s n 70’s (I’m told they’ve lightened up since then). Sins included: drinking, dancing and playing musical instruments in church. They believed only their interpretation of scripture was correct and anyone who disagreed with them was going to hell, i.e. any other type of church.
        I remember one Sunday when I was about 14 and the preacher said, “There can only be one correct way to worship the Lord just like 2 + 2 can only equal 4.” I didn’t hear anything else he said bc of
        a litany running through my mind of the endless combinations of numbers, both positive and negative, that you could put on the left side of an equation that would equal 4. From my perspective, he totally proved the opposite of what he intended!! That was the beginning of the end of the C of C for me!
        And once I left the church, I could no longer set foot in the door. I might “lead the young into sin.” That was a shame bc they had the most phenomenal music! Since they believed instrumental music was a sin, everyone was taught to sing in 4-part harmony. Just imagine it – 500 people all singing in 4-part harmony! I really miss that. 😐

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      12. Nooo, you don’t pocket Jesus! lol My mouth dropped open reading that. Just a reflex!! I’m sure I heard that too, that I will die a Catholic.
        Oh and don’t get me started on praying to the Saints. The more they suffered and endured, the more noble and holier they became. I get it to a point but when you take a step away, it sends the message of enduring all kinds of hardships that you may not recognize as abuse because you’re suffering it up for your sins. If you were unhappy about something, it’s because you had a sin you were being punished for.

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      13. Girl, I was praying for purgatory as I KNEW heaven wouldn’t take me. My mother loved those saints too. When she passed on, I had a collection of 80 angel statues and 20 something saint candles. Medals, scapulas…man. And you are so right, I think some of us Catholics were primed for abuse because of this culture of guilt and imperfection. Don’t get me started on all the things I was told was a sin…and what I had to confess. I was honest to a fault, so those confessions were LONG!!! LOL

        Liked by 1 person

    2. Indy, I haven’t come across that idea for years -the realm of the hungry ghosts. I’m going to have to read about it again. I remember dismissing it as stupid when I read about it previously, but then my idea of truth was very literal. With maturity and (hopefully) wisdom I realize now that the truths in Tibetan and Chinese Buddhism are metaphorical. Maybe this concept can help me better understand myself. Thanks for the insight!

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      1. Hi Windstorm,
        Yes, with age many things can be appreciated from a renewed perspective. I take it as definitely symbolic and it can be interpreted in so many ways. Some may take it totally differently than I shared above, and that’s what makes these writings so cool. The stories are multifaceted in a way, depending on where you shine the light of your attention. I’m not Buddhist by practice though I really appreciate some of the writings of Tibetan Buddhism and other faiths. I’d love to hear your take on it after you reread it.

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  16. I still carry that hungry child with me, until today. She is still there. I look at old pictures of her, of little M., and I feel a bit sad, because I know what her future was. Amazing at times, amazingly painful at others. So many losses. Anyway. I don’t feel sorry for you, HG. I would never do that to you. I think you are a strong man, not only because of the power you receive from others, but mainly from within. I believe you know it by now. Not trying to sound sweet here, I mean it.

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  17. I agree with you, that the lessers are not intelligent enough. I am not sure about the mid-range. I saw some hints that they know that they are different and not normal in a common sense. Just a flickering of some recognition then quickly denied. I had to be very stubborn to press that “confession” out of them.Sometimes my narc himself “felt” that something was wrong, when he projected his feelings onto others. He could not realise what it was. I saw it because for a moment he stopped talking and started thinking…. Then he went on as usual.

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  18. SVR,
    Regarding normal. The four major relationships I have had have only been with narcissists (as I have now discovered). So “normal” to me is not normal. A “normal” guy always seems to be so boring…

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    1. I understand totally where you are coming from. Indeed it can be boring BUT (HG fav word Empaths use) that is part of the recovery process. Making that statement you made means to me that you are still involved in the dance. This also means that in a way the empath is like the narc (don’t want to change) so for me that is accepting abuse. Personally I value myself much more than to be subjected to a horror of a person who lies as it breaths, sleeps with anything that gives fuel and takes no responsibility. I would suggest you look deep into yourself and find that inner child and ask her what is wrong, that way you can actually get what you deserve and not accept the predators. A real man can give you what you ask and need. Just communicate with them and for once you can TRUST and LOVE which beats any narc any day. Good luck whatever your decision. The narc I knew said “you had a choice”, how true (now that was not a lie)

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      1. Thanks for your response SVR. I do appreciate it. No, I don’t want to be mistreated by a narc anymore and I’m definitely not accepting of abuse. I didn’t and don’t deserve it. I am learning and can now understand and intellectualize the why and how. Perhaps I’ll meet a “real” man and will be better able to recognize him. 🙂 Just getting used to normal since I never experienced it in any of my long term relationships.

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    2. Strongerwendy
      I hear you on the boring. Why do the choices always seem to be either mind numbingly boring or abusive? Where are these Unicorns in the middle? Most start out exciting and turn boring pretty quickly. Maybe the answer is to not need one permanently in your life, but rather stay to yourself and just interact when you feel the need. Society just does not seem to accept that though. They always want you paired and you are suspect if you are not.

      Liked by 1 person

  19. Wow sad picture so my question HG as a Narc to adults revisit this time of childhood pain and do they understand that is why they are narcs

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    1. Criticism causes a return to the sensation of the childhood pain. Lesser and Mid Range Narcissists do not know what they are. Greaters know but may not know it is likely to be linked to childhood.

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