The Narcissistic Truths – No. 39


55 thoughts on “The Narcissistic Truths – No. 39

  1. Robyn says:

    Ms brown, thank you. It’s so nice to hear from someone who gets it. Nobody understands. ‘Get over him, he’s a creep’ they say. I read everything HG writes. I know the truth. But I was married to that creep for 19 years. I am the mother of his 3 sons, who he doesn’t even bother with since he left. But I feel like Keanu Reeves in the matrix. I swallowed the blue pill and can’t believe this is reality.

    1. Ms brown aka Seastarr C★ says:

      HG is ALWAYS here for you, and so am i & others here, in whatever way we can be… the “no one gets it” a common denominator in N abuse/entanglements… I don’t sleep much… so that is why I respond so quickly, lol. still on high alert….

      1. Robyn says:

        I haven’t slept in 4 months. He’s sucking the pretty right off me. Like some ladies on here, I keep waiting for my Hoover but it never comes. Though HG believes his coming here to hack my emails was a Hoover. But I think that was in retaliation for my tossing his photos in the trash. My narc was a professional British cyclist in his youth. His posters covered my walls like a shrine. Yes, I purposely put them in the bin for him to see. And yes, he took them. Now my replacement probably has them hanging in her shrine.

        1. I would have to say I agree with HG on this one…it was a malign hoover to draw negative fuel. don’t react or show any emotion…. stay here and READ! Yes you had a shrine & Im sure “adored him”, I know…. but it/you became “stale fuel” If you need help, ask HG and he will refer you to a read and or book to get you through! I promise!!

          1. Robyn says:

            The funny thing is I was dating a narc when I met my narc. They were friends and my narc rescued me from him saying he would never treat me that way! Now the first narc, who is a lawyer, is rescuing me from my current narc by helping me with divorce so their rivalry continues and I am the target. I wonder if HG has a book about that!

          2. Im sure he does, if you ask him directly. I can not advise

  2. Robyn says:

    I have to see my narc face to face , the first time in over a month, in divorce court 2 days from now. I am scared to death because I have been doing so well with NC, but this will put me in his sphere of influence. I don’t think he’ll try to speak to me directly, but I am so afraid to even look at him. He filed for divorce on me yet he’s mad I stopped begging him to come back.

      1. Ms brown aka Seastarr C★ says:

        Like 👍🏼

    1. Ms brown aka Seastarr C★ says:

      my thoughts are with you. i am soon to face the same.(he is living in another state, so n/c has been held)
      do not look at him and remain emotion free in court, in front of judge. please let me know how it goes!

      1. Robyn says:

        I am at such a disadvantage because I did not want this divorce and my narc knows it. I read HG’s article he recommended. I can’t imagine my narc behaving that way but then again, I never would’ve imagined he’d hack my computer to steal my emails either. Not sure why he did it. There’s nothing in there worth the risk of being caught. Which he was. Or maybe that’s what he wanted.

        1. Ms brown aka Seastarr C★ says:

          All I can say, Robyn, is I DO feel for you… isnt going to be easy. I begged my latest (midrange) not to “divorce” me as well, at a certain point, and said I WOULD CHANGE? wtf… i devalued myself! anyway, that was well before I stumbled upon HG. PLEASE read HG’s various blogs and books CONSTANTLY! It will keep you on track, You will UNDERSTAND and be armed with KNOWLEDGE! You will learn how to “Seize the Power”… I’m not saying you will be happy, no, far from it…. but you will be safe and POWERFUL against this Narc you must deal with…

  3. jenna says:

    Gbean, I believe mr. Piano recital during church might even be a greater, keeping the charm flowing until the very end. But i’m not sure. HG, do you keep the charm flowing until the end, even during discard? It would definitely be a good strategy to keep them all still attached to you instead of hating you.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      It depends on the nature of the narcissist. Charm is the preserve of the Greater (and some Mid-Rangers) and therefore charm will be exhibited to others to triangulate you and/or charm will still be used against a victim through switching it on and off as part of the push and pull. The charm will be removed at times during the devaluation in order to be effective.

      1. jenna says:

        Thank you HG. 💗

    2. gabbanzobean says:

      Oops I added my thought on what type of Narc is he to my other reply to you.

    3. gabbanzobean says:

      Jenna, Piano recital boy was definitely VERY charming. The last time I physically saw him he took me to dinner (after having sex with me after telling me we were done having sex LOL) and he flirted and chatted with the waitress for damn near 15 minutes. She tried to be polite and walk off to tend to her other tables but I could tell she felt pulled to stay and chat with him. He asked me if I wanted dessert and I said I was full but he insisted on ordering it anyway and then he asked her “what is your favorite dessert here?” then he ordered that. I was ready for her to just sit at the damn table and take my place the way it all kept going. And apparently he is like that with everyone. Mr. Country Boy. Small town guy. Polite to all. Mr. Piano During Church.

      1. jenna says:

        I have one word – BASTARD!

    4. Narc affair says: narc does what youd mentioned keeping the charm going even during seduction. Theres other aspects he takes away. So while he shelves ir devalues hes still ever so accomidating and charming. It drives me crazy. Id rather him be a complete a hole than this act of the loving partner. Its so terribly frusterating! Its part of the gaslighting and makes the victim look ungrateful and like theyre imagining it. Its definitely an intentional tactic.

      1. Narc affair says:

        Oops during devaluation not seduction

      2. jenna says:

        Hmm i never thought about it in that way. Thank you narc affair. I will think about that some more. I really appreciate that insight. 💗

  4. jenna says:

    Gbean, i also wanted to point out to you that mr. Piano recital during church at least told you that if you love him, you will let him go back to his wife. From reading here, other narcs just ghost away. That is the prblm. He never actually ‘properly’ devalued you for you to hate him. It’s the same situation with me. He kept the charm flowing while asking you to let him go ‘if you love him.’ Now imagine a lesser. He would probably say ‘get out bitch, i’ve had enough of you!’ 😂
    So therein lies your prblm and my prblm too. But i don’t believe he wants to be faithful to his wife. Being an fb predator, i think he found a new play toy on fb. The bastard! May he rot in hell for hurting gbean’s feelings! And may my ex narc rot in hell too for lying about loving me
    for years. If i had known it was a lie, i would NEVER have been intimate with him, no matter how attractive he is.
    HG, do narcs actually believe it’s love during the golden period?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Yes we do but it isnt.

      1. gabbanzobean says:

        What causes you to believe it is love in the first place

        1. HG Tudor says:

          A mistaken understanding as to what love is.

    2. gabbanzobean says:

      Hi Jenna,
      I wanted to reply to Clarece but I notice some posts do not have a reply button. So Clarece, I am STILL considering the mistext birthday reverse hoover. I say reverse hoover since I am not the Narc yet it will be a hoover from my end. I’d love some “fuel” sending that fucker a mistext.

      Anyway, to Jenna yes you are so accurate in these theories. I was devalued/discarded, etc. in the nicest way possible. THAT is one of the main things that made me question if he was indeed a Narc. I mean don’t get me wrong, he engaged in the push and pull with me, disappeared all the time (under the pretense of his “guilt and depression of his guilt”). Even when he told me I was “crazy” he did it in the nicest way possible like he wanted to help me. “Have you considered medicating yourself?”, “You need to get rid of me, you need me out of your life, I am only exacerbating your anxiety!”, “You are utterly vile to me but I am here because I love you, you do not abandon someone that you love”. (umm you’re cheating on your wife and claim to “love” her!)

      And yes I did get the whole “if you love me you will leave me alone and let me focus on my family”….that was his version of “NC”. He said I was toxic, our relationship was toxic. He said he cannot expand his family (he wants to have another child with his wife) with me in his life. I got it complete with all the dramatics. “I do love you, I always will. It is my goal for us to have a healthy friendship one day”. At the time (before coming here and learning what he is) my only pathetic protest was “But I love you…” and various other emotional responses of what he does to me, how I feel for him, etc. His reply was “Please, you need to stop telling me all of this. Just stop…” not said in a mean way at all but more of a “this is too much for me to hear right now, please stop” whiny woe is me type of way. He also said, “Please stop telling me you love me. You need to stop saying that, please” It seemed like he was practically BEGGING me to stop saying these things. In the nicest way possible. WTF?

      He did ghost away. He is non existent on What’s App, Instagram, FB, etc. normally a frequent poster too. The only stuff that shows on his page is stuff his wife posts (I am not friends with her but she tags him hence the reason it shows). But yes the “if you love me set me free” nonsense.

      I do not think he is a greater. I had 2 email consults with HG and he was identified as a middle range cerebral. Speaking of cerebral, do not get me started on the psych talk I heard from him. He was such an amateur therapist it was ridiculous the way he talked to me and kept up his “concern” of how crazy I was (in the nicest way possible of course).

      Good grief I can only imagine what the wife must see. Yet I am jealous of her anyway.

      1. jenna says:

        You see, because mr. Try to look good in front of church audience Piano recital moron (sorry i had to use a different name this time as i am angry as hell) was saying things in a nice way, and kept the charm flowing in the ‘deval/discard’ stage as well, this keeps us hooked. It’s v difficult for us that way. I also got the caring “pls you need to stop this (crying in my case).” “I did not come here to see you cry.” I would cry out of happiness when intimate, and he hated it. Bastards they are. May fate bring back his depression. I absolutely hate him now. And i feel like telling him that i no longer forgive him for the past silences and future fakes and tricking me into having sex with him, but i cannot otherwise he’ll block me and i’ll get another ongoing debilitating physically painful panic attack. So for my health, i need to stay quiet. I hate it. Right now, since our last argument approx 2 wks ago, he’s texting me almost daily being all nice. All i can do is hope god punishes him for having a new ipps so easily (actually, i believe she’s an niss considered for promotion), after ‘I’ (for emphasis) got him out of his depression because my heart went out to him. He swore he would never be with another woman until marriage. I worked with him for 10 months replying to his constant questions (via text) about how he can get out of his depression, why he had casual sex with other women after we ‘broke up.’ I told him it’s because he has a poor sense of identity, that he was neglected by his caregiver, that he suffered abuse, that i therefore forgive him etc.
        HG, do you think he’ll discard his niss eventually? But he’s not the discard type, as he keeps me around until this day. And his family is pushing him for marriage, so i’m afraid he may marry her and promote her to ipps and live happily ever after. I think he won’t cheat after marriage either, because he already repented to god for his sex sins. She’s overweight and unattractive too. And fitness is so important to him. She argues with him, which he hates. I don’t know why he’s with her. He told me he hates how she looks and he hates how she argues.

        1. gabbanzobean says:

          Mine used to look at me quizzically when I cried during sex and said “Am I hurting you?” And then he seemed to not quite understand when I said that the tears were happy tears. He made a puppy dog face like “Aroo?” Aka an expression of: “What? I do not understand this concept of happy tears!”

          Sorry that my story riled you up. But yes piano recital jackass indeed. (who I am still stupidly in love with and want). Meh.

  5. Ali says:

    and if they cannot personally hoover you they will enroll others to do it for them… or… try to…

    1. HG Tudor says:


  6. The strangest thing is that my ex has been with an older woman for years. She wanted to call me at first to show she was a “nice” person. I talked to her a couple of times and she told me how she let her kids go to their dad because my ex didn’t want them around. I said that is pitiful .. why did you do it? Said she didn’t know and that she lives a very lonely life because they have no friends. My ex has never stopped trying to contact me after 22 years. He doesn’t have my new number. He now lives in Florida so he’s too close! He also tries to contact our son by phone, and if they talk they have a blow-up because my son is very successful and his dad tries to tell him how to manage his money. He hasn’t worked a day since he found that woman to support him. He is still trying to make my son pay for a $300 piece of junk car he gave him the one time my son visited him at 16 years old. I never received a cent of child support from him. What a loser he is. I know his father was a narc also and he even made a pass at me that I never mentioned to anyone. The saddest thing I ever heard him say to my ex was that he and my ex’s twin sister should have been aborted. His twin sister died years ago. I apologize if I’m off topic but just felt like saying this.

  7. LA says:

    We are in the middle of a divorce after 25 years of marriage. We have three grown children. Currently we have no contact with each other, unless there is a court date. We have recently sat in meetings for four days, he looked at me maybe twice out of all the hours we were together. A few months ago he texted the word “talk” to me, I never answered him. My question is, how do Hoovers work when you have children together?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      The hoovers are deployed in the same way as if you did not have children, but when there are children in the equation they are used as an excuse to contact you and provide plausible deniability to the hoover.
      Thus a narcissist will text with a query relating to the children, or to ask to speak to the children or such like. That is not the purpose behind the contact -= it is a hoover – the existence of the child just provides a basis for it and also a greater expectance that you will respond to it because it involves the children.

      1. strongerwendy says:

        So true…

  8. I was quite blessed. Once the nightmare divorce was finalized , he was done with me and on to his next victim. He was remarried within two months to a old woman eight years older than he. I was no longer any use to him. Yay!

  9. Pamela says:

    Your Gothic images are brilliant, HG. The message is resounding.

  10. Robyn says:

    My narc is in the process of divorcing me so I have been NC for 3 weeks. He came by to “see the kids” when I was at work the other night. But was really here to hack my computer and send all my emails from friends and lawyer to himself! Is that a Hoover or is he just an unethical jerk?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      It was a hoover to gain fuel and residual benefits. The children were just the excuse.

      1. sarabella says:

        So this was a hoover? Narc mother and I get in a final fight. She then tries to approach me by asking if I would send her my 10 year old for a vacation! Hello!? Are you crazy lady? then as I left FB, she complained its the only way she would keep up on my child. the child she was against me having anyway.

        Hoovers using my daughter?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Correct. Anything is up for grabs so long as it enables us to get what we want.

  11. jenna says:

    As i was reading in the comments section of another article, some mid-rangers are not confident enough to risk being wounded if the hoover doesn’t work. Thus, they may not hoover. One of HG’s articles informs us about this characteristic of the mid-ranger as well. However, i understand what HG means here, that the risk is nevertheless present.
    I know my mid-ranger hoovered heavily at first- 50 phone calls in 3 days (often 3 or 4 calls in sequence only seconds apart), and 100’s of text msgs within 2 wks, changing tone frm pity plays to suicide threats to anger then back to pity plays etc. When i didn’t reply, he then lost hope and tried again after 3 wks. I never blocked him on whatsapp so i could see him ‘typing’ all day to me b4 he actually sent that text. I thought maybe it shows ‘typing’ for so long because it’s going to be a long text. Nope. It was just 3 sentences. I think he was not sure what to say, so he must have kept deleting and starting over again. Mid-rangers do lack confidence. Well, all narcs do, but in mid-rangers it is more obvious i guess. (But I only know a mid-range narc, no others). Well i know HG, the greater, and his confidence is sky high.

    1. gabbanzobean says:

      Jenna I feel pathetic for wishing Mr. Piano recital during church would Hoover me in that same manner.

      1. MLA - Clarece says:

        Hello G-bean! I wish you wouldn’t beat yourself up and label yourself “pathetic” for wishing for a Hoover. Healthy people have a desire to bring about real closure to things that end. Not that you’ll get it here, but I believe that causes part of the yearning for you. You’ve also landed yourself in a goldmine of new information connecting the dots for yourself and I know for me, when I continued to engage with JN during his hoovers for a year while reading here, I could start looking at his dialogue and comments in a new lens. I also taught myself how to lessen the emotion when dealing with him. I think a part of you wants to engage that warrior princess in yourself.

        1. gabbanzobean says:

          Hi Clarece,
          I replied above to Indy. But you are so right. I think that’s a huge part of it. And the fact I want to be “worthy” of a Hoover. As I stated above to Indy, my mid ranger pushed no contact on me! Everything’s flip flopped, lol. Always Narc Opposite Day!

          1. MLA - Clarece says:

            I completely relate to that. I struggled immensely associating JN hoovering me with at least validating that something from me was worthy of his attention and all the time invested and wrapped up in him. It was my fuel. But what amazing fuel I apparently have to offer. With him it oddly comforted me that he would still seek me out after all the others would fall by the wayside. They just don’t compare. Meanwhile, each time I hear from him, I get a bit more desensitized to the “rush” from hearing from him.
            Don’t forget, you can always send a “fake” mistext around his bday and see how he responds.

      2. Indy says:

        Hi GBean,
        No, don’t feel pathetic! It’s normal to feel this. Just like MLA said, we seek closure! For me, I escaped and STILL wanted confirmation of the hoover. I was told by everyone here to not wish for it but I did as I wanted to confirm he was a narc STILL in my head, even though I really knew he was (I started reading HG before I left and he fit the profile). My mind was addicted and wanting to still not believe he was one. I wanted to be wrong. And I wanted confirmation that he desired me (hard to admit for me but true). Weird, huh? I dump HIM and STILL want him to chase. Well I got my “wish”, and it scared the f$&k out of me. Triggered all my stalking wounds and then some. It took him 2 months before he hoovered and then it was s frenzy. I truly think some are more likely to stalk than others and the hoovers happen when you fall into the spheres of influence and meet execution criteria. It may be a year before you hear. It’s all about whether he has other fuel lines.

        Hang in there! With time, and NC, you will feel less a need to get that Hoover. Usually in 30 to 60 days of NC you will feel less draw…detox! And, oddly enough, that’s when some pop back up so keep your “defenses up”, as HG says. (Yes, I am still quoting you!)

        1. gabbanzobean says:

          I hear you. I still find it amusing that he’s the one who pushed NC with me! 🙄 All the more reason I feel like a Hoover is off the table. It’s always Opposite Day in Narc land.

      3. jenna says:

        Gbean, you’re still in the honeymoon stage w mr. Piano church recital fool (i may change his name frm time to time 😝). That’s why you feel that way. It is similar to my situation in that we were still in the honeymoon stage when we parted. He kept kissing me, hugging me, looked into my eyes with extreme love, couldn’t control himself so had dry sex with me, and cuddled me for hours b4 he left. The oxytocin levels were high. But i used logic and still managed to escape 2 months after that, only to fall for him after 2 months of hoovering.
        It is natural and you sound as emotional as me. I also used to cry during and after intimacy, due to extreme feelings of love, tears of happiness of being so close to him etc. But it hurts knowing they are with somebody else. I am almost certain now mine has a new ipps though he swore against it. It is because all of a sudden, he wants to make his life beautiful, he is adding profile pics (which he had deleted for 10 months post my initial escape, due to depression – he couldn’t look at himself out of shame for having sex with me ie. sinning frm his perspective). My panic attack has started all over again and i am crying all day and i am extremely non-functional. I never knew pple like this exist in the world. I lived a very sheltered life. I mean, i knew of ted bundy and such psychopaths, but i thought it was a rarity. I didn’t know they are amongst us in real life.

        1. gabbanzobean says:

          Jenna, I was a crier too. That “overwhelming” love feeling. He actually thought he was hurting me during sex and he would stop for a moment and ask if I was okay. Nonetheless your explanative paragraph (minus the dry humping part, it was anything but, LOL) is exactly how it was with me too! Word for word. I am okay some days but then other days (like you describe above) it is just too much. I still have no idea if he is back with the wife, with his former side dish (my predecessor) or with someone else. I know it does not matter. Yet my damn mind continues to wonder. What really confuses the hell out of me is that HE told ME he did not want to talk anymore! Him going “NC” on me. The “utter” nerve. Utter used for emphasis.

          Stick with Piano Recital During Church. It makes me laugh. But I know any other nickname will still be just as funny.

    2. Narc affair says:

      Jenna …that mustve been difficult remaining no contact thru all that 🙁 its so heartbreaking bc you want to believe they will change but they wont or cant. The extent they hoover too is really hard to see. Thats why its crucial if youre serious about no contact you seal up any way they can contact you otherwise its an even more devastating process to go thru! Its better to not know how many times they texted or tried to call. The whole process is awful. Makes a person never want to get involved ever again.

      1. jenna says:

        Narcaffair, as a co-dependent, i had a strong ‘need’ to see how many hoovers i get. In fact, seeing his missed calls and hoover texts made me feel validated. I knew for sure then that i meant something to him. Because in the past, after intimacy, he would go silent for 3 days b4 texting me, and that made me always wonder what i meant to him.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          What you meant to him? Nothing, save you are an appliance that provides fuel, character traits and residual benefits.

      2. sarabella says:

        Narc in a public fight said he didn’t care anymore. I said, Thats the point, you never did to begin with. He said, whatever.

        When I verbally accepted to him that I know I was a nobody to him, that he never cared, he lied, made it all up, he used me…. this caused rage.

        Why? Its the truth he was telling me in not so direct a fashion for some time. When I said it as well, with some acceptance, suddenly he is raging and blocking and caring on.

        Why do they feel ok with their reality and using it to hurt you, but then you point it out and finally agree with them, and its chaos and out of control behaviors.

        I finally agree with it all and he flipped out. Was it cause he sensed I accepted it at last and therefire, his control over me was gone? No more games would work? My hope and longing dead and he knew it?

  12. Narc affair says:

    10 yrs later and im still hoovered by email. I have no interest in reply other than curiousity how the ex narc is doing but its not worth it. If youre over your narc they can hoover til they turn blue and will get nowhere.

  13. There is always the risk of HG..

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