5 Howling Wildernesses


Five reasons it cannot work

1. Nothing about the golden period is real

It feels like every day is summer doesn’t it? Warm and wonderful. No rain clouds anywhere, just a cornflower blue sky. Not a cloud to be had. Everything is fantastic. We do everything together. We match on every conceivable level. I like what you like. We laugh at the same things. We enjoy the same books and films. I know what you are about to say. We like to cook together, try new wines and explore interesting places. Whether it is forest or foam, city or village we both enjoy going to these places and do so together. We are soulmates. I do not want anyone but you. You have finally met the person that you have wanted all of your life. You still cannot believe how lucky you are to have found someone like me, someone who cares for you, holds you, loves you and showers you with attention, praise and affection. What would you do without me? You struggle to even remember what life was like before I appeared, shiny and exciting. You never want it to end and you allow this golden effect to permeate deep inside you, touching every part of you. Every fibre of your being is coated with my golden touch. None of it is real. You have spent all your time looking at a mirror whilst wrapped in an illusion. I was never any of those things. I just showed you wanted you wanted to see, said what you wanted to hear and did what you wanted to experience. I am a con-man, a charlatan and a fraudster who trades in fake love and steals your true love. I am not what you think I am, I never was and I never will be.

2. Nothing is ever good enough

How soon the golden and glistening empire rots and rusts, those gleaming towers of glass and chrome shatter and crumble. What once seemed like it would stand for a thousand millennia has come crashing down. You scurry left and right, attending and caring, working yourself into a frenzied confusion as you try to hold it together. You cannot accept that this is happening and you try your utmost to stop the cascading stone and the splintering timber but it is an impossible task. You can no more prevent this edifice from tumbling to the ground than you can hold back the tide. The manifestation of this crumbling empire and your frantic efforts to rebuild it comes in how you try and try to please me. You give more of yourself each day in your desire to salvage what you understand, wrongly, to be us. You steadily erode your integrity in a bid to please me, make me happy and do whatever it takes to make things good once again. Each time you think you have got there, the bar is raised higher and then higher still. You keep giving and I keep taking. What worked last week is now scorned. What made me tell you that I loved you a month ago annoys me instead. I no longer want to be with you or be touched by you. No matter how hard you work, cook, clean, tidy and care. No matter how much effort you put into maintaining your figure, dressing attractively and taking an interest in my day, you are only ever met with scowls, scorn and abuse. You do not give up, not yet, but you fail to realise that this is a hole which can never be filled.

3. Nothing stops the games being played

The tears in your eyes will not abate the cruelty. The soft glistening tears which roll down your cheeks only appear as blood to the cruising shark. A green light to continue with the denigration and vicious nastiness in order to provoke more emotion from you. Today is a day of silence. The shoulder cold and brutal as you try to fathom out what is wrong and what you have done. Tomorrow is all smiles again although you are none the wiser as to what has happened to change that but by sundown you will be traipsing to a cold and empty bed as I vanish once again. I sit in my chair seemingly staring into nothingness but I am mentally flicking through my Devil’s Toolkit as I consider my next move. I arrange the pieces, you, my friends, my family, your friends, the neighbours and the man in the sandwich shop. All of you pawns on my giant chessboard as I decide where you should go. You try to learn the rules, to stay onside and avoid transgression but these games are played with just one rule. There are no rules. I revel in my gamesmanship as each day I deploy a new machination against you. These games will tear you apart and you can never hope to win at them.

4. Nothing surpasses fuel

Everything revolves around obtaining fuel, from you, form him and from her. It is a ceaseless quest for my lifeblood which ensures that I am always on the hunt. Restless until I find sufficient fuel and then planning the next move, this need comes above all else. Events are disrupted, dates are delayed, birthdays are ruined and anniversaries forgotten all in order to acquire my fuel. Your needs are placed way below mine, for fuel is everything. I have no responsibilities save the acquisition of fuel so children, jobs, money, health and harmony are all left at the wayside, neglected and abandoned to enable me to pursue the only thing that truly matters to me. I will do anything, say anything and be anything to obtain this fuel. Fuel makes me hurt you, fuel makes me seduce your best friend, fuel makes me fire the nice guy in the office, fuel makes me take centre stage at get togethers. Fuel is all.

5. Nothing will ever change.

There are those of my kind who know not what they are and any such attempts to pin them with the blame of awareness will be resisted with the speed and instinct of pulling your hand away from a flame. They do not know what they are but they know that you are the enemy, seeking to foist change when it is not needed, a part of your attempt to control them and punish them when they have done nothing wrong. Change is not needed and will never happen with them. Those of us who know what we do see no reason to change. We are conquerors, pioneers, leaders and ubermensch. We are supreme beings and we are always right. You make the changes to yourself and fit in with my new world order. I am mightier than you. This all works for me so why should I change? I am not required to change, I am the decider, I am not the one who is decided upon. I rule. I am not ruled. This is how it is and it shall always be the case. Deal with it. I will not change and I cannot change. I know what I am but I choose this, who would not do so when you are as triumphant and brilliant as I am? Nothing will ever change.

Besides, I am terrified of change.

160 thoughts on “5 Howling Wildernesses

  1. norma castillo says:

    you know,
    that title describes perfectly the feeling inside, when you push past the pain & accept the way things are….
    there’s still more pain.

    I felt that way months ago. before I found you & your channel. thank you.

    now I have to make sure Im never made to feel that way again.

  2. Matilda says:

    The brainwashing going on in this comment section is ridiculous. But to each their own, I guess.

    1. C★ says:

      indeed it is…

    2. Matilda says:

      This individual –who is neither interesting nor important enough to be named– is a manipulative person, and I exposed her.

      She reacted with deflection, gaslighting when caught, dismissing other peoples’ opinions, talking down on others, trying to ridicule others. Like a broken record, in fact.

      Her most successful strategy to date is playing the victim. ‘Woe is me’ mantras, and trying to silence those who disagree with her by accusing them of poisoning the atmosphere on here, whereby she is extending her perceived victimhood to all participants. She is dragging others into an issue which has to do with *her demeanor, and hers alone*, in an attempt to gain sympathy. As we can see, it is working marvellously.

      I recommend a dash of critical thinking and a very good look at the narc matrices to gain some insight!

      1. C★ says:

        ha! YES! Thank You! I know others see it too but are “afraid’ to say so…. or to “call out” said individual on her tactics and bullshitery, I for one will not back down and have no fear. My only fear is HG ousting me from the blog, lol…

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Nobody gets ousted, but inaccuracies are remedied and this particular episode does not need to continue.

          1. C★ says:

            Moderate away, my Master!

      2. Matilda says:

        “this particular episode does not need to continue.”

        I agree.

  3. Mercy says:

    Wow that was some interesting reading material.

    Is there a “Team Dr Q” button?

    1. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:

      Hey mercy!

      It’s very kind of people to support me because I too have been through a lot of crazy shit. I have no intention on dividing people I just don’t want to be attacked. I do have feelings.

      It’s awesome that people have been so kind and in ways protective.

      1. Mercy says:

        Dr Q

        Haha I was actually just trying to be funny not necessarily taking sides but I have read your previous comments and never formed an opinion that you were argumentive, pushy, rude or anything negative.

        It just drives me nuts when someone doesn’t agree on a person’s perspective and they call them out in a harsh way. I can understand a healthy debate but I have no time for rudeness.

        Oh and I don’t care what your profession is, and have no reason to doubt you. We are all here for the same purpose. I soak up everyone’s opinions, advice and knowledge and try to apply what fits for me.

      2. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:

        Thank you mercy!

        There is nothing wrong with people stating their perspective and getting into debates but in a way that isn’t mean.

        I agree with what you said 😁

        I often ask other people their perspective on my situation because I am fully aware when I get highly emotional I can’t see as clearly and need someone from the outside to help.

      3. Indy says:

        Hi Doc,

        Oooo eeee, its hot in here!! Just poked my head in….

        I saw you asked about which states a psychologist (doctoral level) can prescribe. Just looked it up as They are still fighting for that in Georgia too. None of the PsyD or PhDs can at this point and are referred to MDs.


        Illinois Louisiana and New Mexico are listed…not sure how many more are approved states.

        BTW I knew you were a psychologist based on our brief joking shop talk about giving a TAT to an ex 😆 -still cracks me up- anyone that can whip out test names that are lesser known to the general public is highly likely a dr of psychology.

        **ducks as biscuits with gravy fly across the room**

        I used to love a mini food fight with dinner rolls, especially with an uptight date at a nice place 😉

        1. Windstorm2 says:

          “Ducks as biscuits”? Where on earth is this quote from? Too hilarious to miss out on and google’s let me down!

          Happy 4th, Indy and Happy Anniversary! Feel like you need to be presented a token like they do in AA! 🎉🎈🎊

          1. HG Tudor says:

            It’s ducks as a verb not a noun. The biscuits are not made from duck.

          2. Windstorm2 says:

            Thanks HG. I’d figured that out, thus my reference to this aspect of my stupidity. Had the sound of an interesting quote, though – at least to my disordered mind!

          3. Indy says:

            But they do fly like ducks 🦆 😆

          4. Windstorm2 says:

            And you never know. One of my sons is a chef and he serves duck pizza. I can see him making duck biscuits! 🦆

          5. Indy says:

            Duck 🍕 ? Is it good? Yesss, duck biscuits actually sounds like it has some potential, almost like a duck pie but in a roll.

          6. Windstorm2 says:

            Everybody says it’s great. I don’t eat meat so I’ve never tried it. He’s a very creative chef. The duck pizza is at a microbrewery his main restaurant runs as a subsidiary.

          7. 🙂

          8. Indy says:

            Hi Windstorm,
            Hahaha… I made that up. Glad you got a laugh…

            Thank you so much, and a happy 4th to you!

            Yesssss those chips they use in AA and Narcotics Anon. This would be considered our “birthdate”, the date we declared our freedom and went NC or grey rock in cases where you have to interact (divorce with kids).

            Anyone else here celebrating milestones?
            I know NSS has over a year! I think?
            I’d love to hear the milestones (one day, one month, etc). and I’m sure others too. I was inspired by many that were here before me that welcomed me and didn’t criticize my experience or questions. We all have unique ones.

            That is the one thing I’d like to stress, welcome any new comer here with patience and understanding. Offer personal experiences that work for you but do not shame. Do not shame questions or stories. They are new and do not know the dynamics here. They may have experienced things you have no clue about. It takes one sarcastic or barbed or invalidating comment to delay healing. Now, those of us that know the ropes, fire away 😂 Simetimes truth comes the hard way too. 😂

            Just my two cents.

            To all our healing!!

        2. Windstorm2 says:

          Ah….I realize my stupidity – at least this small portion. I never was very good at reading the cues in a play. Maybe i just don’t have enough imagination. There’s sure been enough flying thru the ether in this thread of comments. Biscuits and gravy fit right in!

          1. Indy says:

            No worries, your are not stupid! I miss cues all the time here 😆

            How’s the food in KY land? Do you do the biscuits and gravy thang?

          2. Windstorm2 says:

            Yes, Indy. Biscuits and gravy are big here. It has to be white milk gravy though, no meat with lots of black pepper. Went and had some at Dairy Queen yesterday morning!

      4. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:


        That was really helpful thank you! I have no idea where I got Wisconsin from lmao ?! Lmao

        I knew you knew lol 😜.

        I really do love the TAT. People often over look it but it’s as good as the person who is interpreting it!

        Have you given a wiscv recently?

        I hope I meet you in real life one day!


        1. Indy says:

          Hi Doc,

          Yes I have given the WISC-5, WAIS, along with the DAS-2, Mullen, ADOS-2, VABS-2, and various others though my current test battery is the ones above. Used to do more LD assessments though now specialized in autism. I have yet to give the WISC on tablet though.

          Yes, those projective measures are only as good as the evaluator! As with all measures 😊Numbers without understanding of patterns, factors of influence, and such are less useful. Validity is everything!

          Yes, me too! I’d love to learn more about the work you do with those teens with ASPD traits 😊 And of course, shoot the breeze 😉

      5. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:


        Congratulations on 1 year!


        1. Realized I’ve made progress (many thanks to Mr. Todor’s blog content) because I didn’t automatically know how long NC has been. Had to think.

          No longer in the “it’s been seven hours and 15 days” Sinead O’Connor stage anymore.

          1. Indy says:

            Yay!!!! That’s when you know you have reached a significant point, when you loose count!

            I know the first couple of months were tough for me in regard to detoxing off the addiction to the toxic interaction.

            A year feels damn good!

          2. Thank you Indy :). And congratulations on your milestone.

        2. Tudor not Todor. Red pen for me.

        3. Indy says:

          Thank you 👊🏼❤️

      6. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:


        All I will say is lol… I’ve written something recently on the wisc5… that is published. There is a good chance you have it. I say this because I’m trying to lead you somewhere 😜

      7. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:

        Windstorm and Indy,

        Omg I would kill to go to a fucking down south food fair..

        Omg fried everything ….

        Wtf is friend butter ? I know it’s not real butter lmao!

  4. DebbieWolf says:

    Dr Q.

    Hugs back to you…
    ys I was there..live feed.😊

  5. DebbieWolf says:

    Dr Q…

    To clarify…(my reply is presented in the wrong order)
    My comment beginning:
    Indeed you are not ….

    “anyone’s punching bag” …
    is to what this refers…
    That’s what this is a reply to and meant.

    My Comment is out of sync in the thread and hasnt followed on correctly…though I did put it as a direct follow on reply button to your comment.

    (I’m just Clarifying because it looks as if I’m saying you are not human which is just completely the reverse to what I’ve said in my previous and other comments…)

  6. DebbieWolf says:

    Hey Dr Q…

    Very coincidental that you’ve just said that about being human, I was about to put in my post that you are human and that just because you are a doctor doesn’t mean that you haven’t got feelings..
    (Some people still believe “physician heal thyself”…)

    But I never put it.. I never wrote it and it’s strange that you’ve written it at the end of your comment, so we are definitely on the same page as regards that 😊

    You don’t have to explain yourself to anyone… as you know..
    however sometimes things that are wrongfully said and upsetting it is sometimes the case that it is needed that a reply is required to state a position on a matter.
    But purely for oneself..not for the naysayers as frankly, ‘they’ will be disregarded.

    Re: the real reason we are here..
    ..😊All is going to be ok… we’ll get there Dr Q.. good days, bad days but we’ll get there…Onwards…x


    1. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:

      People like you restore my faith in the human race for real lol!

      We are clearly on the same page 😁

  7. DebbieWolf says:

    Indeed you are not Dr Quinzel.
    You have done nothing at all to warrant being under attack.

    I am having a coffee now and I would make you a drink of choice..
    sending you good thoughts.
    Have peace..✌x

    1. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:

      Debbie wolf

      Hugs and love from afar!

      Hope you will be around for the live feed 😁


  8. DebbieWolf says:

    Dr Quinzel

    Thank you for sharing on this blog.
    You do not come over as a know it all as you were accused. Not at all.

    I wish you well in your healing and hope new horizons will soon bring good things for you.

    Why anyone attacks you is beyond me.

    I have learned here not to even try to reason why some people are unpleasant without provocation.

    Attn aggressors: ⤵

    “………..” ↔ No Contact.

    1. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:

      Debbie wolf,

      Love it! Thank you so much. It’s hard enough to go through what I’ve been through and to face the shit I allowed to happen in addition to all the lies and the complex ptsd. It’s just nice to know you recognize I’m human.

      1. Star says:

        Dr HQ:) Hello! I do believe you are who you say you are. I see no reason for you to do otherwise. It’s not like you are on here playing pschologist, giving advise and diagnosing people. You are here to learn, grow, speak of your experiences , to have and give support. And I also want to point out that who we are professionally is only a small part of who we are as a whole. I know for myself I am the epiphany of calm and professional in the workplace. No one would ever know that inside sometimes I am insecure, sometimes I am internally freaking out by situations. Or that outside of work I am super silly and goofy, that sometimes I drink too much wine, that I sing karaoke really really loud, or that me and my girlfriends as a group can be really loud and crass in our discussions and antics.This forum is a safe place for all of us to really just be ourselves:) I love your comments girl! You be you:)

      2. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:


        You are insanely sweet and your post just made me smile 😁

  9. Siobhan G. says:

    Nothing is real! Thank you HG👍

  10. Black Coffee says:

    I got the bronze period from my mid-range. What are the chances that the new victim will get the gold? Does it depend on how much effort needs to be put into the seduction?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      What does it matter what the new victim receives?
      It does depend on the effort put into the seduction yes. If he have you a bronze period (probably a Lower Mid Range) then likely the next victim will receive the same.

      1. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:


        That actually made me feel better. I hate to admit but sometimes get all worked up thinking this new girl is getting some like grand treatment. When I read what you write and hear what you say it puts everything back into perspective. Damn that emotional thinking 😜Lol!

      2. Black Coffee says:

        Thanks. It does matter. The knowledge of this makes me feel much better.

  11. DebbieWolf says:

    Furthermore why should Dr quinzel not mention her profession.
    Plenty of people on this blog mention what they do.

    1. C★ says:

      AGREED, Debbiewolf!

      1. C★ says:

        however, those that do mention their professions seem to have the character to back it up and are not megalomaniac and deluded about their importance

      2. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:


        You seem quite angered by me….

        I have done nothing other than defend myself.

        It’s okay though I’m blowing you kisses 😘

    2. Matilda says:

      Some people share their experiences and offer their expertise, and I enjoy reading that.

      Some people feel entitled to LECTURE others, and I am very much allergic to that!!

      Therein lies the difference.

    3. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:

      Debbie wolf – thank you so much for your support.

      It is clear to me there is jealousy whirling around in some people. I am no ones emotional punching bag.

      1. C★ says:

        what specific examples specify jealousy?

      2. Shaking my head says:

        Dr H i agree with you theres jealousy circulating because HG tudor has backed up the fact you are who you say. I also think attention seeking is coming into play and using this blog as a stage to show off!! You have done nothing to warrant this other than being yourself. Dont let certain drama queens keep you from contributing.

      3. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:

        Shaking my head,

        Thank you for supporting me. It is very kind of you and I really am just being myself.

        Hugs and love from afar 🤓😁

  12. DebbieWolf says:

    To whomever it applies to.

    Dr Quinzel shares her experiences like we all do.
    I haven’t seen anything nasty whatsoever.
    Even the defence replies she makes through being accused of being a fraud are measured.
    She has every right to rebutt what are in fact nasty comments made at her to begin with.

    To be fair it is nasty in itself to have insinuated her to be a fraud or disingenuous.

    What has she done?
    Sharing her own experiences.

    Well…. cant we all just get along fairly.
    Be fair about it.
    Isnt it bad enough what we’ve ALL been through already?

  13. Mona says:

    Dr. Harleen Quinzel, stop offending other people, remember what you yourself said in one comment. And stop pointing on to your profession, that does not matter here. You have no authority here. You are only a guest like every one else. Please remember that. No one offended you, so stop your attacks (if you are able to realise them).

    1. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:


      I do what I want when I want and Im not going to let someone spew complete nonsense about me.

    2. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:

      Mona focus on yourself not on me

    3. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:

      Mona this is the last time I will address you…

      You’re comments to me look absurd – especially since I was attacked and that’s why I referred to my degree.

      Get over it and move on…

      You have no ground to attack me….

      Never tell me what I can do – I’m not gonna sit here and let people bitch me around and attack me all the time.

      How you act towards me ….it’s a reflection of yourself and speaks of your character.

      That is all I have to say to you I am ignoring your comments and C’s comments mobeing forward because they are nasty and unwarranted and are starting reek of jealousy and ignorance.

      I can’t stomach know it alls – I never speak beyond my expertise you should try and do the same.

      You both are hardly as empathetic as you think you are and lack some serious insight. I actually pity you both- it’s quite sad.

      You don’t get to say ugliness to other people and get upset when someone defends themself.

      A blog that is supposed to be a place where people can support each other and gain knowledge starts to become tainted by your disgusting mean girl behavior and know-it-all attitude.

      Do not address me – grow up.

      1. C★ says:

        why then do you PERSIST to continue engage with us??? It must really hit a hot button, hey???

      2. C★ says:

        O… one more thing… you do come off as a know it all, yet you know nothing that I already don’t…. so go fuck your self “dr” HiQ!

      3. Narc affair says:

        Dr Harleen…there are many here that enjoy your posts. I for one love your sense of humor and down to earth nature its a breath of fresh air compared to some of the psychologists out there. You actually share your past experiences which youd rarely find in therapy. Ive not once seen you attack anyone on here. Please keep posting and sharing ❤

        1. Windstorm2 says:

          Agreed, Narc Affair.

      4. MLA - Clarece says:

        Another reason I stay involved with this one and only blog was witnessing the kind support you showed Jody with “pie” mantra and seeing that time and time again with such acceptance and understanding that can change someone’s day on a dime for the better with the majority here. I loved that too.

      5. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:

        Clarece – I’ve always enjoyed reading your observations and analysis.🤓😁

    4. C★ says:

      you are sooo correct, mona!! certainly no one here needs her shoving her bs psych shit down our throats… thats certainly NOT why I am here!

    5. C★ says:

      stop giving fuel to “the lesser”, mona!

    6. C★ says:

      well glad someone caught on to that … thanks Mona…

  14. DebbieWolf says:

    I’m the one with the nose now.
    I’ll do the sniffing out from now on.

    1. Bel says:

      HG why do you not let my comments be posted ?

      1. HG Tudor says:

        Probably because I havent had chance to read them yet or they contain questions.

  15. DebbieWolf says:

    “Never let them see you cry” has never meant so much.

    I’m so on it!

    There’s no blood to sniff out in my den.

  16. DebbieWolf says:

    This mindset of ruling all is as old as time itself literally and history shows us this over time.

    They said the Berlin wall would never come down.
    Change is as inevitable as the march of time.

    Despite anyone’s best efforts time cannot be stopped and change cannot be stopped in the final analysis…
    Slight or otherwise changes will occur.
    For the better or worse..they still occur.

    1. Windstorm2 says:

      The only constant thing is change

  17. Twilight says:

    Do you know why change terrifies you? Or is it the fear of loss of control? I understand things that so long as you control things you “feel” you will not be criticized thus to never be made to feel invisible and/or worthless

    I do apologize if I have overstep, never my intention

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Quite alright Twilight. It is the loss of control. If we are in control, everything operates as we want it, change brings with it potential risk of a loss of control, an interruption to fuel, a challenge to our superiority, the need to expend more energy.

      1. Twilight says:

        Thank you I understand what you are saying.

        What if you didn’t have the risk to this control, would change be an option to explore?

        1. HG Tudor says:


      2. Twilight says:

        Thank you HG

  18. It is brutal. But thank you for the truth.

    1. C★ says:

      the truth is brutal! better to understand the TRUTH, sooner than later… for me it was later… but i am on track now

      1. At a celebration. Not going to answer now because I’ve had some wine. So would be too unfiltered…Will answer tomorrow 😊

  19. Pirate says:

    Your nothing but seagulls scavenging for your next morsel . Willing to take anything for fulfillment while the masses sheaw and run your irritating behavior away. Yep rats.. rats with wings

  20. Natalie says:

    Thank you! I’ve learned so much from the blog, books, and YouTube channel, your insight is life saving!!! After a year of avoiding everything connected to my narc, I was able to go to the theater and see movie we had been anticipating since we met. I thought I would cry but I felt nothing! I even had a dream last week that he died and I went to his funeral and I felt nothing when I woke up. I will never forget how he treated me but I feel my connection to him is gone.

  21. Tonya says:

    😢 I don’t think I should have read that 😢

  22. SVR says:

    Oh my! Besides I am terrified of change. That’s what stood out.
    I think even empaths are HG. It is because we know no different, it’s better the devil you know kind of thing. We also are venturing into territory never explored. It’s very frightening indeed,, especially when you think great I am there to realise oh my god, not again. Am I strong enough. I thought I was. Now that question is questionable.
    So scared we all are, so I think.

    1. bel says:

      A narcissist, does not want change nor can they change . HG has an amazing quality with he’s writing , if you notice nearly always HGs last words draw emotion from ” our kind “. We all read this post and I think many of us , because of our nature would of taken away HGs last sentence
      ” I’m terrified of change ” ….. this than gives HG a quality we process , or least we think it does . That than starts ” our kinds ” thought process , maybe with the right therapy , maybe with the love and support , maybe , maybe , maybe . There is a deal in play here nothing more … we supply the audience ( the fuel ) HG supplies he’s knowledge. One comment will always stay with me , which I feel was brilliant ( sorry I can’t remember who wrote it ) . It was simply ” because they are a narcissist that’s why “. We need to run away from these people , stop trying to fix broken souls and concentrate our efforts on those that process our qualities . I have taken all my information above away from HGs writings , am I heading in the right direction HG ??

      1. HG Tudor says:

        Indeed you are Bel.

    2. Windstorm2 says:

      Isn’t there an old Chinese curse – May you live in changing times? I agree with you, it’s a universal human fear.

  23. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:

    Isolation experiment is an excellent idea – a week is too long.

    A few days is more realistic.

    You will be alone with your thoughts and will most likely get very depressed and irritable.

    1. Narc affair says:

      And agonizing emptiness!!! Also loss of identity.

    2. C★ says:

      one week is not long enough.. you should know that, if you are what you claim to be…which i doubt

      1. Twilight says:

        How long would be long enough IYO?

        Do you know exactly what happens to one of them when they go into isolation with out any fuel?

        1. C★ says:

          Hi Twilight…. In my opinion, it will largely depend on how well fueled He would be beforehand.
          Without going into detail here and taking up space, I base my opinion on an article HG wrote, called “5 NARCISSISTIC MYTHS” (https://narcsite.com/2017/05/31/5-narcissistic-myths-3/)
          Specifically #4 in that writing.
          You can see where I drew my statement from there. (1 week not long enough)

      2. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:

        You are wrong on so many levels. You don’t know what you are talking about. It’s getting ridiculous. Stop speaking on matters you are not qualified to speak on.

        1. C★ says:

          I have my “qualifications”…. Your so called “real deal” is nothing but delusions of grandeur….. no one knows 100% what or whom anyone is here, including HG, as it is not allowed… (see https://narcsite.com/rules/)

          1. HG Tudor says:

            I do know DR Q is a doctor.

          2. C★ says:

            1) how do you know that? 2) in what capacity is it a “dr” 3) without showing proof of identity, which is against the rules, you really do not know for sure

          3. HG Tudor says:

            I know for sure but I cannot state for reasons of confidentiality. The relevant person is a qualified doctor in psychology. I felt it appropriate to confirm this to avoid any misunderstanding on both sides. Similarly, if the relevant person was not a doctor I would also state that.

          4. C★ says:

            this so called “dr” is most disindigenous… apparently many others are in agreement with me based on the comments coming through

          5. HG Tudor says:

            If you do not like the individual concerned that is your choice and you are naturally free to disagree with that person’s observations and offer your own views, indeed as you know, I encourage people to put forward their observations. There are some subjects where it is about perspective and therefore there is no right answer. For instance, some people consider those who have been ensnared by our kind as blame-free victims, others see culpability in whole or in part on the part of the victim and it is interesting to read the arguments advanced. I don’t always accept or agree with what people write, but I am interested to read their views though owing to my curiosity and in instances I also learn.In some instances views required supported facts and if somebody offers information as a fact it is only right that people ask on what is that assertion based etc and debate can follow form that. However, the person is a qualified doctor so it is pointless stating “so called” because that is incorrect.

            I don’t see a lot of comments questioning this person’s qualifications, indeed Debbie Wolf and Twilight accept she is and don’t see the need for there to be a fight about the issue.

            As I stated, you don’t have to agree with this person’s comments etc but it’s correct to remove the inaccuracy about the issue of qualification. I consider that issue put to bed.

          6. C★ says:

            Thank You and I can agree with you on most points made, but not all of them.

      3. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:

        We have established I am what I say I am – move on.

      4. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:

        HG even stated in a previous post that I’m the real deal.

        I don’t know what you have against me and why you have targeted me as an emotional punching bag but I will no longer acknowledge your baseless and nasty comments – you can have these misguided conversations with yourself.

        Despite your lack of empathy and compassion towards me I can still show you some and say to you I hope you heal.

      5. Twilight says:

        I see why you came to your conclusion as to why a week would not be long enough.
        Have you ever dealt with an addictic?

        I have no doubt Dr Qenzel is a doctor, there is one person I do believe when he states something here on this blog. HG has stated before she is a doctor. So I can. It figure out why people still want to say she isn’t.

        1. C★ says:

          Twilight… I have delt with and been through more than anyone here will ever know. I do not flaunt my former profession as to remain neutral and I resent others pushing their “knowledge” when it is not asked for, down my throat. I will accept HG’s confirmation,(drq) but still, something doesn’t sit right in my gut, and my gut is usually correct.
          As far as HG’s imposed isolation, let HIS professionals deal with it. They know him personally and will work closely with him. I gave my opinion, based on my own personal experience. Just because some “know it all” dr. says I am wrong, doesn’t make it so….

      6. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:

        So now you’re saying HG doesn’t know I’m a doctor?

        Wow Hahahaha

        1. C★ says:

          I do not care what you are or what anyone else is… it is irrelevant here on this blog, so step the fuck down…

        2. C★ says:

          Further, you stated in a much previous post to readers that you CAN NOT prescribe medications…. Why is that? All doctors, NP’s, advanced practical nurses, even PhDs or PsyDs can and do legally prescribe. This conflicts with your claim of being a doctor, unless perhaps you “were” a dr and are barred for some reason…. care to expand? Similar to an attorney giving legal advise to vulnerable people, when they’ve been disbarred and lost their license to practice….

      7. Narc affair says:

        How can one know for sure anyone is who they say they are online? HG im sure knows in this situation but anyone posting here could lie about anything. Bottom line is Dr Harleen has been super friendly and never attacked anyone in any of her posts. I trust she is a psychologist and a great one at that👍

        1. C★ says:

          she has attacked anyone who challenges her or questions her “authority”, or has opinions/perceptions different from her own. i am not going to waste my time scrolling through hundreds of comments to site examples… I appreciate your observations

        2. Windstorm2 says:

          We all of us who comment give our opinions based on our personal experiences and that includes our experiences from our professions. I have on occasion referred to my experiences as a retired MS teacher in explaining why I think like I do. It only is to be expected that others refer to their experiences and life knowledge in respect to their comments. Knowing more about them can help us understand their perspective. We may agree and take one another at face value or we may not. None of us can prove we are who we say we are without sacrificing our anonymity.

          One of the great values of the comment section here is to be able to share our opinions openly, interact with others in safety and gain new perspectives. For this to work I believe it is important not to judge openly, attack or ridicule one another. Goodness knows I don’t agree with everyone and my dogs often look up in surprise when I laugh out loud or rant to them about something I’ve read here or emotions it evoked in me. But then my dogs are very long suffering and patient. Good thing since they’re stuck with me!

      8. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:


        Thank you for putting this issue to rest because it’s becoming quite irritating. I agree with literally everything you said.


        I think it’s important for people to tolerate others perspectives even if it isn’t their own. When I make statements that require facts to support them I do so accordingly. There is really no need to be so hostile towards me. I have no issue until I start to feel attacked. I’m willing to be peaceful and start over if you are.

      9. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:

        Step the fuck down ?


        Oh wow ….

        You’re hilarious.

        I would eat shit and die before I ever “step the fuck down” to anyone.

        I stated my opinion on the matter and I have good intentions.

        I am not a know it all – I have no issue stating when I am wrong or fucked up.

        I really don’t care enough to fight. I’ve moved on.

        1. C★ says:

          again you exhibit your obvious megalomania!!

      10. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:

        Narc affair,

        Thank you for being so awesome as usual. I appreciate the support you give me. I really don’t attack anyone. The only time I have ever said anything really was when false information was being put out there and I didn’t want anyone to get hurt by it.

      11. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:


        You made a lot of excellent points. I agree with everything you said!

      12. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:


        No they cannot prescribe meds – if I remember correctly That is still a battle going on per state. I think one state technically allows it for PsyD and PhDs.

        Nope I’m not barred lol!

        I hope they do pass that privelage in New York State – I do think we would be required to take more psychopharmacology classes.

        Just thought I’d give you that info lmao.

        1. HG,
          Are you on any prescriptions – from the good doctors – related to your condition?

          1. HG Tudor says:


      13. Twilight says:


        I understand having this gut feeling, just to be clear I didn’t need HG to state she is a Dr. to believe what I do, yet I do trust HGs word here, which only confirm what I know.

        As far as being put through things, we all have here. Some in different ways, Yet what is seen as severe to you may not look so bad to me. Different perspectives bring different out looks.

      14. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:

        The privilege is only in a few states.

        The last time I checked I think it was Wisconsin but I could be wrong.

        The fact of the matter is that you are misinformed.

        1. C★ says:

          The fact remains, DOCTORS as you call yourself, write prescriptions. YOU stated that you can not write prescriptions. Therefore, you ARE NOT a doctor, but falsely claiming to be one. That is my point.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            I’ve already explained the position.

          2. Windstorm2 says:

            Anyone with a doctorate in the US is a “doctor”. A PsyD is a doctor of psychology, as I understand it, and deals with psychological approaches to healing. My own therapist is a PsyD and explained to me that she would have to send me to a psychiatrist for a prescription for bipolar disorder. She is still a doctor but she can not prescribe medicine in the State of Kentucky.

            Sorry to keep beating a dead horse, HG. Mama always said that was one of my problems.

          3. HG Tudor says:

            Not at all, a helpful clarification.

          4. Windstorm2 says:

            I just got a big laugh, HG! When I opened your blog site, the ad at the top of the page was for a doctorate in PsyD at The University of Southern California!!! Life is just so full of humor! 😝

      15. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:

        Oh crap I clearly had a brain fart before

        * Privilege

        Indy do you remember or know the states that are allowed to prescribe? I know New York can’t yet (if you’re a PsyD or phd).

        I’ll just have to look it up.

        Well thanks C for reminding me to look into that lol!

      16. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:


        Thank you for clarifying this is gotten to the point it’s hilarious lmao 😂

        You rock my world … just saying lmao 😘

    3. I do believe he can do it – based on all he’s learned and is now aware of about himself. He’s stronger than he thinks underneath the facade.
      Regardless, and he may never find that it makes sense to change, there’s a lot to be learned from trying it no matter the outcome.

      1. Windstorm2 says:

        Strongerwendy’s hit on the main reason I think you should try this, HG. New experiences that push your boundaries can teach you many things, make you grow and expand your potential.

      2. Narc affair says:

        I find the topic of isolation fascinating. I also think a greater narcissist could handle being away for extended periods of time without fuel and survive. In fact i think come out stronger and more self aware. As a codependant i can relate bc i envision being away from my narc for more than a day and it causes me tremendous discomfort but i feel if it happened id go thru a transformation. At first id be panicked, then extremely depressed lost and empty, then id start to feel stronger daily. Id use a 12 step program and my faith to help me cope. Ive never been addicted to alcohol or drugs but i think itd be comparible to the withdrawals.Thats why there are many detox clinics set up to help isolate from the addiction. The narcs addiction is other people and their validation of their alter ego.
        Of course im not a therapist so im only speculating. I do think were much stronger than we give ourselves credit for. A greater narc given their awareness would have the greatest potential to change. Many factors contribute to that tho and having a reason why theyd want to change is crucial imo.
        Isolation therapy for narcissism would be a therapy i think could work or be worth trying.

        1. C★ says:

          good point, as using for a form of therapy! Hg may be on to something… not to change, per se, but as a form of therapy

    4. Twilight says:

      Dr. Quinzel

      I agree with you, a week would be to long yet to experiment is an excellent idea. Then a decision can be made to continue or stay.

      1. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:

        Twilight ,

        Thank you for always being so kind and understanding to me.

      2. Twilight says:

        Dr Quinzel

        Your welcome, understanding brings awareness which brings change. We shouldn’t be tearing down over ignorance.

        Your comments have made me laugh my tail off many times.

  24. Ms brown says:

    you are terrified of change?

  25. Mercy says:

    HG I am still learning and one thing I never understood was mirroring in the golden period because I didn’t think I had witnessed it. It came to me last night and I want to know if this is correct thinking.

    The ex – she is mean to him but she is the child’s mom and a source of money. He is mean back and shows her no affection

    Myself – I have always held him at arm’s length because I knew he was not emotionally available. I am not mean but I do not shower him with affection. He doesn’t give me much affection in return and he is not mean.

    The new girl – she is extremely emotional, affectionate and touchy feely. He returns that affection.

    Is this mirroring?

  26. Victoria says:

    HG brilliance magnified into words!!👍

  27. Nat says:

    I’ll be reading this whenever I feel sad and think how quickly I was replaced

  28. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:

    It isn’t a matter of what everyone else wants you to change – it is what you want.

    You don’t actually want to search for fuel all the time – you don’t want that need to be there. You feel you need it for survival.

    As you proudly become who you are the need will be decreased.

    The question remains: what will you do with all of your spare time if there really isn’t a need anymore for fuel? How free you would feel.

    1. Narc affair says:

      Hi Dr Harleen…great post and as a codependant i can envision your post being a scary one to someone like myself. I cant imagine myself without this need for the narc yet im sure itd be freeing. Change is frightening especially to those really set in their ways and reliant on others or other things in life to feel “alive”. Without the narc and his type of fuel id feel dead but im sure that stems from my fear of change and learning to depend on myself for my needs. Im sure with a narcissist its similiar. We get used to what works and fills our voids despite how dysfunctional it can be. Healthy people do whats right and are stronger people as a result. They faced their fears, felt pain and grew into a better version not stagnant and broken. A good friend of mine described it perfectly that nothing should stay the same and change is healthy.

      1. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:

        Narc affair,

        You are absolutely right. I’m guilty of using the same methods over and over sometimes in order to avoid the larger issue and the possibility of the pain that comes along with change …

        It is true …

        Nothing can stay the same forever…

  29. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:

    What if there was a significantly less of a need for fuel?

    What If someone found a functionally equivalent behavior or way of obtaining fuel?

    I recognize the whole process can’t be extremely uncomfortable because you will ultimately say fuck it and not see a point.

    The core issue needs to be addressed: the need for fuel. As we look at where the need comes from (which we do) solutions can be generated. In addition to this a functionally equivalent means of obtaining fuel must be given to you so your typical way of obtaining fuel would no longer be needed.

    It is possible.

  30. Peaceful says:

    HG, as always, thank you for this! I’m celebrating 4 weeks no contact today and this was a gift to read to reinforce it all. He sent a few pleading emails yesterday to pull me back in, but I have made it across the emotion ocean, got to shore, crawled up into my tower, surrounded myself with protection. And here I stand. Protected. Aware. Educated (thanks to you). Locks are changed. Garage door code changed. And a little fearful that he could come against me with violence.

  31. Ali says:

    so fear holds you back… but you see no reason to change…

    you know nothing is ever good enough… that no one can ever be good enough to fill that black hole…

    and maybe you have not voiced that really the only one who can do for you what you need, the only one who can be in your head, know what you think and need before it gets spoken, the only one who can be there for you 100% of the time for you and the only one who can fill that void, is YOU. You seek what you need from outside but it is inside of you. Only thing is you cannot treat yourself the way you treat others…if they let you down you can discard them… you cannot discard yourself if you mess up… you cannot bear the idea of you failing yourself… except that even when you do not achieve what you strive for you have to understand that it’s not letting yourself down or failing, it is allowing you to learn to be better, next time. a better you.

    to a narc, those things cause cognitive dissonance, you are in denial of it. it cannot be, because you fear it. you cannot stand criticism and thus you cannot conceive of self-criticism. It is your kryptonite.

    if you had a better idea of what sits on the other side of the walls you built, maybe your inner-child, your inner-self would then no longer be afraid.
    Did you build those walls to keep yourself safe or to keep yourself caged?
    did someone else build those walls around you and make you think it was your own idea?

    “We are conquerors, pioneers, leaders and ubermensch”

    perhaps it’s possible to be that without hurting others and perhaps it’s very much possible to be that without being a narc…

    1. windstorm2 says:

      Good comment, Ali. Self-criticism probably is a narcs kryptonite! But it’s my constant companion! One more way we’re opposites.

  32. *tears*

  33. Anonymous says:

    You know what I’d find interesting? A poll on how long the golden period lasted for each of us. Although I guess it’s hard to say because it’s gradual. It’s not like you wake up one day and poof, he’s gone and has been replaced by a monster.

    Also, surely you must be someone? I understand it’s all a fraud, all pretending, but there must be someone, something underneath that disguise, no?

    1. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:

      Here is my answer – bronze period for 2 months I’m being kind by saying that

      There was never a golden period for me


      1. C★ says:

        that’d be a midranger/lower per HG

    2. Amy says:

      I was a DLS and never really had a golden period. He was very sweet when we were physically together but as soon as he stepped out the door I got the silent treatment (which I did not realise at that time) from day one under the disguise of being busy, no coverage, lack of privacy, being ill, etc… But I was hooked already. Took me 3 years to get away and it took him 3 days to find a replacement.

      1. Elle says:

        I was also a DLS. My golden period lasted maybe 3 weeks on and off. Then he discarded me suddenly. It’s been a month and I still want to wring his neck for all the bullshit he put me through.

    3. Anonymous says:

      I thought mine lasted for close to two years but I realised that’s me lying to myself. I started seeing him in August 2013 and I know now that he cheated on me as early as late 2014/early 2015. Can cheating happen in the golden period? Hahaha@me. Anyway, I also remember I had a stressful time in August 2014 and told him not to do his idiotic disappearing and stressing me out even more, so it must have been rotten already then. I also remember all the times where I told him I need stability, and I’ve been saying that for ages. So in reality, it was probably only a few months.

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