The Cold Dead Stare


You should consider that you are rather fortunate to be given these glimpses into the workings of my mind. Ordinarily you are unable to peer into the dark mind of my kind and me.  As an empathic individual you do cultivate an ability to understand the way that other people are thinking and how they are feeling. It provides you with a degree of intuition and this is applicable to many of the people that you meet. You apply this ability for the purposes of doing good things and I understand why you do that. Notwithstanding this ability, however, it does not work with us. You are unable to establish what is going through our minds or what we might be thinking, no matter how desperate you are, to be able to do this. This is because we do not abide by the normal rules and conventions of everyone else. We do not travel on the well-worn path but instead we take those routes which are far from the beaten path. These routes are tangled, unmapped and dangerous and they are so designed to prevent others from following us down them. We do not want you to know what we are thinking.

This is because we have no desire to convey to you any advantage in seeking to escape our effects and make it harder for us to obtain fuel from you. We must cloak our minds and make them impervious to your attempts to read them. We must operate through secrecy and covert behaviours so that you never see us coming, so that you never know what will happen next and so that you have no opportunity to evade us. Not only do we shroud our minds in this manner through our rejection of logic and the adoption of behaviours which are outside those considered normal, we also ensure you cannot read us through our eyes.

Many people look to the eyes as a device for gauging what someone might be thinking or perhaps more accurately feeling. If we are explaining something to somebody and we see confusion in that person’s eyes we know we must adopt a clearer method in our explanation. If we are conveying some news and see a pained expression in those eyes we know (if it was you making the comment) to alter the manner in which it is expressed to make it less painful or to do or say something to offer support. Of course, when we see it, we merely increase the pain in order to extract a reaction from you.

This weakness of the eyes in allowing another person to gauge how someone is feeling and therefore ascertain what they are thinking is not something that we can countenance. This is vulnerability and we do not like vulnerabilities at all. We have enough to contend with, without allowing you to see what they are. Accordingly, in order to ensure that our mind is impervious to your inspection we will either adopt a cold, dead look in our eyes which renders them impenetrable or we will simply reflect back at you what you are feeling and mislead you. When we adopt that cold stare, it may be designed to induce a sense of dread in you but it has a primary purpose. This purpose is to create a shield so that you are unable to ascertain what we are thinking and thus our plotting mind is secure from external influence and can proceed in its scheming. Should we reflect back to you what you are showing to us, we are doing this to mislead you, but also again to prevent you from having any chance of understanding what is going on in our dark minds. Our minds are the core of our operations. Our minds control everything in order to achieve our aim of securing fuel and as such, this most precious of devices must not be compromised in any way by people like you and your meddling.

We must ensure that our minds are ring-fenced, cut-off and protected from your attempts to read us. Should you be able to do that then you will be taking away one of our advantages. We know what you are thinking and we know what you are going to do next because you are an empath and you not only wear your heart on your sleeve but you wear your mind there as well. Your eyes allow us straight into what you are thinking and feeling. Your mind may as well be transparent or broadcast its thoughts onto a flat screen for all to see. You are easy to work out and study, hence why we choose you. A similar fate must not befall us and this is why we ensure at all times that our minds are impervious to your penetration.

242 thoughts on “The Cold Dead Stare

  1. paul says:

    About my post above: I realise, as I look back at it, I didn’t write this very well. What I’m meaning to say is, that I believe society itself is creating narc-like or quasi-narcs traits in people. I’m excluding the pathological narcs in this opinion. I sum it up like this:

    Pathological = having no empathy, just driven by the need for fuel; closely following their three-stage structure to relationships; losses of self-control. Highly emotionally manipulative.

    Quasi: = possessing empathy but frequently exhibiting the traits of narcissism in relationships; no special need for fuel; not structured; self-controlled. Highly emotionally manipulative.

    When I say ‘disconnected’ and ‘unconnected,’ I don’t mean through technology or modes of transport (I shouldn’t have used that analogy with cars, it’s misleading). I mean people, in general, are becoming disconnected to each other in a personal sense, in their day-to-day relationships. Hence, the ‘preference’ for remote relationships, where one can ‘unfriend’ others on Facebook, for example. I’m suggesting that this ‘friend’ and ‘unfriend’ way of thinking is highly individualistic and directed towards the self. People can appear empathic when it suits them – just as a narc can! Words are easy. Consequently, It comes as a surprise when a friend suddenly ghosts another for no apparent reason – for one example. The description of ‘toxic’ people is frequently used but, maybe they are just quasi-narcs?

    HG has recently passed a six million mark of hits on his blog – seems to indicate somethings going on? We don’t know the figures for the other numerous ‘narc’ sites?

    “Being a narc was often an advantage for pioneers trying to make a life for themselves from nothing.” Yes, look what happened to the Native Americans.

    1. Windstorm2 says:

      Hey Paul,
      I think I understood you. My point was if you lived in a rural area, you already were disconnected from other people except your immediate family. You were to all extends and purposes: stranded. Likewise before communication technology like phones and the internet, there was no way to talk to anyone else. I grew up that way.

      My life transformed when I turned 16 and got my license. Suddenly I could meet friends, go to movies, even drive to cities that were full of new people I’d never met. Individual transport revolutionized my social life.

      The same thing is true of the internet for me. When I was growing up, I could occasionally call a friend on the phone, if I was by the phone and they were too. Now I can maintain and make friendships with people all over the earth. I can have discussions with someone like you now instead of spending the entire day alone here with my dogs. So while the internet may be separating some people from real human contact, it allows so many of us to have way more contact with others than ever before.

      Your talk of friending and unfriending and ghosting reminds me of middle school girls when I was a child – capriciously forming cliques, being insincere in talking to others, cutting friends off over nothing. I think people have always been that way. It’s just so much more noticeable now because it’s in the open online and not behind closed doors.

      I do agree that the opportunities for selfish, narcissist behaviors are much greater now. Like HG has said social media is like a narcs wonderland of opportunities. And I’m sure that this endless opportunity has resulted in much more selfish behaviors from many who wouldn’t have had been able to indulge themselves previously. But as to the number of actual narcissists? I think it’s probably about the same as always.

      What you call a malignant narc, I just call a narc. None of them have empathy, although they learn cognitive empathy. What you call a quasi-narc, I just call a normal person. Maybe that’s where our thinking really differs.

      All my life I’ve watched normal people do selfish, hurtful things to others. When they stop and think about it, they usually feel somewhat guilty and will be able to empathize with the people they have hurt. It’s usually their friends and family, their society, that brings their hurtful behavior to their attention and triggers their remorse. Now, however, with the solitary podium of the internet they can thoughtlessly hurt and abuse others with no one to check their behavior. Maybe this is that increase in selfish behavior you meant? But these people are not narcissists and they are not becoming narcissists. They are just normals being thoughtless and self absorbed.

      Based on what I have seen , I’m not sure that narcissism is even really growing as a topic of conversation. It’s not in my sphere, but I am very reclusive. While everybody knows plenty of narcs, very few have even heard the term “narcissist.”

      HG is so popular because he is a unique source of information on a topic that causes a lot of pain in many people. He also continues to put out new insights and interact with the community of all of us. So this new information and interaction tends to keep many of us here as new people constantly come.

      I hope I have not misunderstood you. Sorry this was so long.

  2. paul says:

    Would you please release my comments from moderation…again, please? Thank you.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Paul, just so you know, comments will sit in moderation until I have time to address them – longer posts and those with questions may have to wait longer. Your request was polite but there’s no need to ask for a comment to be released from moderation (and asking doesn’t speed it up). I get to the comments in due course.

      1. Tiny Dancer says:

        Control, control and don’t forget he’s in control.

      2. Tappan Zee says:

        Release makes me laugh.
        Let it out of purgatory.

        Asking to speed it up also makes me laugh. No better way to slow it down.

        Sort of like when I am told to calm* down. I kick it up a notch.

        *I mean before logic vessel.

    2. jenna says:

      Paul, did u just start a question w ‘would u pls…?’ Gulp. He’s a big bad narc don’t forget that!
      But seriously, he has probably thousands of msgs to moderate, and the ones that take longer to answer he gets to them in due time. U just have to b a little patient. Or u can consult him if u want a speedier response. Pls don’t feel offended by it. He’s a v v busy guy!!

      1. HG Tudor says:

        Well put Jenna.

        1. jenna says:

          Wow! I am feeling elated! I got an acknowledgement frm u! Now will u tell me where u went? Jenna stop! It’s none of ur business jenna! But jenna wants to know lolllll! I am curious – curious george, curiosity killed the cat, and all of that. Surely u feel close to us as we do to u? Oh wait u don’t. Never mind! I’ll quietly leave this comment now, walking backwards as my head bows down to u…

          1. Diva says:

            Hi Jenna…..I really don’t wish to burst your bubble……but it is my own personal experience that every time you get that feeling of elation……it usually means you are heading for the naughty step……..enjoy it while it lasts!!!!! Although the bowing may stall it, it’s not something I intend trying. You are very persistent though…..I recognise that trait!!!……..Diva

    3. Fool me 1 Time says:

      Paul you should realize there is only one rooster in this hen house!! Lol Just joking every one! Don’t get your feathers ruffled! 😝

  3. paul says:

    Yes, HG speaks for both of us 😎

  4. paul says:

    Only joking!
    What’s your story then? Did you have an encounter with a narc – is it on an earlier post here? – or is it just academic interest?

    1. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:


      I have so many stories 🙄🤣. The one that got me here….

      I was with an older mid range narcissistfor four years – five of you count the affair (I was single he was living with someone) – it ended last year in early August. I basically ghosted on his ass and mailed his sht back after a monster fight.

      Itwas torture. Everything was a fight – there was a lot of covert sexual abuse (how I lost my libido) – he was impulsive and irresponsible – abused me financially and emotionally – twice physically (just to scare me but it wasn’t a beat down – more a smack) – caught him on a big dick dating website – he was def banging men behind my back – had some um “different” sexual tastes – he was extremely emotionally abusive – I couldn’t even have a freakin conversation with him because he managed to turn everything into an attack or a fight – his selfishness disgusted me and I couldn’t tell him anything because he would try and use it against em and was a snitch.

    2. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:


      He wasn’t my first narc. I also happen to attract sociopaths and psychopaths.

      1. Basically all three are the same. Therefore, not much of a difference in personality traits at all.

      2. Tiddlywink says:

        Gosh Dr Harleen.. he sounds vile .. am so glad he’s out of your life. Mid rangers r the worst.. so cunning and covertly controlling of people. Mine was a mid ranger.. pathological liar in relationship with 2 women unbeknownst to me.. take care out there.. seems there are so many narcs around..the red flags make their words and actions obvious….

      3. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:


        He’s a disgusting and pitiful creature. I’m sorry you had to deal with one as well. I literally feel your pain. Thank you for being so empathetic.


    3. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

      I became obsessed with sociopaths and psychopaths since I was probably about 14.

      This obsession came about because of my first psychopath who to this day pops up – he came around yesterday. He is the only one I haven’t cut off completely.

      The other ones I just cut and never look back but I haven’t managed to cut him completely. We go through spells of silence for whatever reason but yeah never disappeared forever on that one.

    4. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

      Yes it is an academic and personal interest.

      As you can see now – for many reasons.

      Sociopaths and psychopaths just can’t get enough of me. The narcs I attract I just dead them now I have no use for them.

      I actually have a few friends that are sociopaths and psychopaths and I was saved recently by a few of my clients at work who happen to be sociopaths and psychopaths.

  5. Tiddlywink says:

    Welcome Paul…. just wondering..u have a similar style of writing and sense of humor as u know him? Haha….
    . By the way.. is anyone here from Aus? We do get narcs here..unfortunately. ..

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Yes we sent you plenty starting in January 1788!

      1. Tiddlywink says:

        Haha…Touché Mr Tudor!! You are on fire!! Actually my narc was indian…and I am a Londoner (but have grown up in Australia), and my father is from Warwickshire.. now resides in Cornwall.. but yes looks like Capt Cook started the Aussie narc population. ..ha ha..kidding of course …narcs inhabit ever corner of the globe…

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Indeed we do.

      2. sock it to em.

    2. paul says:

      Hi Tiddlywink
      If I knew him I wouldn’t tell him that I did, and if he knew me he’d probably do the same but for different reasons!
      Not sure about your other observations?

      1. Tiddlywink says:

        Hmm Paul.. You are not HG under cover by chance or one of his lieutenant’s are you? I have not really read enough of your posts yet to ascertain who u are!! I just observed that your writing style and humor is so similar to HG’s that i had to ask!!! Now dont go all “deflecting” on me… hehe…

        1. HG Tudor says:

          No, it is not me. I only ever post under my own name Tiddlywink. Paul isn’t a Lieutenant either.

  6. paul says:

    Doc Quinzel
    I wondered if you’d pick that up 😁

    “…I seem to have a thing for psychopaths…”
    The Pentagon must be full of psychopaths!

    1. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

      So Paul, my new buddy…..

      You never told me your age! I just can’t imagine you being that much older than me.

      1. paul says:

        So far, you’ve had three face jobs, a career in crime and a Freudian slip (“later ego”). I’m not confused, though! I think you’re a 106 yr old woman sitting in a wheelchair on a porch in Little Rock, Arkansas!

        1. No… that’s HG 😉

      2. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:


        You wouldn’t be the only man to call me confusing. Lol! That appears to be a theme. I don’t think I’m that confusing lol.

        I get bored and like to switch my gravatar lately because I get sick of staring at the same picture. I’ll commit to a picture at some point lol.

        You found me out! I lead three lives:
        1.) as a mental health professional who seem to attract psychopaths
        2.) as a Catherine tramell femme fatale
        3.) a position at the pentagon – you know I can’t disclose that… I would then have to kill you lol…

        You must have traced my account with those amazing technological skills. I hope I live until I’m 106. No, wait…I want to live forever ::evil laugh::.

        Look at you all shmooozy and charming. You have yet to answer my question regarding your age lol! You seem as though you have a young soul lol.

        It’s okay, I won’t judge you if you’re the one who is an old man with a cane. I love old people! I adore them! They are so cute!

        1. paul says:

          No response to Arkansas. Just as I suspected, you are some other kind of ‘shape shifter’! As you can see I’ve rearranged the letters of your name to form the name of one of my old adversaries – geddit? Usually, I also go under the title of a doctor…Dr Who. I’m immortal.

      3. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:


        Oh I’m a creature…I wouldn’t label myself a shape shifter though lol.

        You are just full of charm arentcha?

        I guess I’ll have to live with the mystery of never knowing your age or what you look like….

    2. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:


      You do make a valid point lol…

      The pentagon is probably full of em lmao !


    3. HG Tudors # 1 fan says:

      Paul I like your attitude. You speak the truth.

  7. Lisa says:

    Paul which part of the UK are you in ?

    1. paul says:

      Southeast. How about you?

      1. Lisa says:

        Hi Paul , South East that’s vague covers quite a big area lol , I’m an hour from London at the moment but moving shortly 😀

        1. paul says:

          I’m an hour from London, as well!!!
          Wow! We might be neighbours?

          Ok, then,…I’m in Kent 😁

      2. Lisa says:

        South East that’s a big area lol an hour outside London but moving shortly , I thought I answered this before but might not have gone through !!

    2. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

      I need more english friends….I’ve decided. lol

  8. ;peace out says:

    No-one can emulate the dead-eyed stare, it’s a total vibe, an embodied being that comes from flat or primal emotions and a shallow but calculating mind. They can use it as a strategy, but they also can’t change the underlying condition.

  9. Sandra says:


    I’m unsure if it’s epidemic Narcissism due to technology and media or if it’s epidemic awareness of Narcissism due to technology and media.

    Your input and Brian’s offer nice balancing perspective to a genderless problem.

    1. paul says:

      Hello Sandra
      Working on a reply to you!

    2. paul says:

      Almost forgot – oops! A few people mention a ‘narc epidemic’ but no one discusses or describes it. Has there truly been a sudden increase in narcs or are we ‘victims’ increasing (online) awareness of something that’s always been around? I only became aware of narcs and their traits a year ago, but I can now put names to certain behaviours I had already observed, eg., triangulation, ghosting, etc, long list…I think these traits are becoming more manifest that are quite manipulative and controlling; designed to boost an ego at the expense of another. Guilt-free decisions are being made in relationships that are quite consumerist and casual., e.g, I can pick up that person and discard as easily as a product in a supermarket.

      If a pathological narc can be produced at a formulative age by indifferent parent(s)? Could it also be true that narc-like or quasi-narcs can be produced within an equally disconnected and indifferent society? A ‘hive mind’ product?

      I don’t think Info Tech is so much leading a change in behaviours as facillitating it. It is providing a ‘preference’ to making personal connections: decades ago most people travelled by public transport then the car offered a ‘preferred’ option, and took over.

      These are just my outlined thoughts. You may totally disagree, of course?

      1. paul says:

        Nobody got any comments/opinions on my post – as above, to Sandra…really?

        1. Windstorm2 says:

          I’ll make one. In my opinion, it is more a case of narcs being more visible because of technology that they seem more numerous now. It seems rather apparent to me that the world has always been full of narcissists. Certainly history points that way. My own family going back several generations was full of narcs (based on family history and stories). So was my exhusband’s family.

          Maybe the everpresence of narcs throughout history is more obvious here in the US. Being a narc was often an advantage for pioneers trying to make a life for themselves from nothing. In many ways narcissism and the American way seem to go hand in hand – the narcs visible and vocal out front and the empaths/normals the silent majority in the background.

      2. Windstorm2 says:

        Now that I’ve gone back and read your entire list, why do you think society is more disconnected and indifferent today than in the past? I see no real difference. If anything seems like society is much more connected now thru global news and technology than ever before.

        And it made me laugh, your comment about how in the past people all rode in public transport but now they are in their own car! Where I live there has never been any form of public transport. People walked or rode horses or had their own buggy. Most just stayed home on the farm. Now, however we can jump in our car and go visit other people, cities, whatever – wherever we please. We are so much more interconnected!

  10. paul says:

    Dr Harleen Q.

    Bit of a delay getting back to you…

    Hello Doc…wot’s up?
    Thank you. Not a narc, then! When you said, “I can give a dead stare…” And, you are also wearing it in your photo (if that’s you?), I thought maybe you were one…an Elite, perhaps?

    1. Sandra says:

      Hi, Paul.

      Enjoyed reading your posts. Welcome to the blog.

      I’m saddened by your experiences and pleased you have a good grip on the situation.

      My father is an empath. I think Tudor’s is too? Obviously they are out there, but we don’t often hear from males of Our Kind.

      1. paul says:

        Thanks, Sandra.
        The sad thing is the realisation of just how many narcs there are probably out there – an epidemic?

        Don’t know if men are holding back or not? So many people use non-gender names – can’t tell who they are?

        1. RS says:

          Hi Paul, I’m RS – female- Robin. Welcome to our group!

          1. paul says:

            Yes, I thought you might be!

          2. RS says:

            I realized after I posted. . . duh. . . I have a picture! 😜

    2. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

      Hey Paul,

      LOL! I had a picture of Elizabeth Hurley before – now you can see my real picture. I just know how to put on a poker face when I need to… that’s all lol. You have to at times in this profession.

      If I were to be a narcissist – I would be be a greater elite narcissistic psychopath.

      In reality… I am a goofy PsyD who has ADHD and ODD (oppositional defiant disorder). That would explain why sometimes people think I sound like a greater elite – people are picking up on my defiant tendencies lol.

      So Paul… tell me about you?

      How did you find yourself here?

      How old are you?

      What is your profession?

      How did you meet your lovely female or ex female lol?

      1. paul says:

        Hello Harlequin
        You obviously have a sense of humour…LOL. Qn: Do people really LOL when they LOL? Didn’t recognise the Hurley pic but then, she wouldn’t recognise me either. Your real picture…better than Hurley; and a poker face when you go ‘all in,’ I suppose?’ You’d want to be a GENP? You’d be crazy in spades!

        A goofy PsyD! Oh! I’m imagining more teeth now! ADHD and ODD – beats me, I’m just pissed-off with everything – your psychiatric consultations must be…interesting, as you tap your fingers in irritation and say, “C’mon. c’mon say something, you schmuck!”

        HG’s was one of the first sites I looked at after being told the critter I was suffering was one of THEM!!!!! Nobody wants to talk about it even when they know what I’m talking about. Despite the ‘experience’ I’m still interested in the subject.

        Old? Errrrrrm! What would you admit to?


        Not really, “lovely,” but we had been talking in a pub (that’s UK. I suppose you’re in the US?) and she asked when we’d meet again? It went all downhill from there. She’s been ex for months now, after I found out how to get away. LOL.

      2. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:


        Oh… I certainly have a sense of humor. It can be dark at times so I am forewarning you.

        I am 30 and I’m from the U.S. I see now you are from the U.K. I’m flattered that you think my picture is better than my Elizabeth Hurley gravatar.

        My consultations and my sessions in general are often entertaining. I encourage people to be themselves and stay away from lecturing and telling people how to live their lives. I am certainly not conventional ha!

        So how old are you and what do you do?


        1. Lisa says:

          HG , I feel a coming along

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Not here Lisa!

        2. paul says:

          “So how old are you and what do you do?”
          But,…a rather “conventional” question!
          I’m much older than you. My job is technology based.

      3. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:


        You are too funny. Everyone knows that I seem to have a thing for psychopaths – Paul clearly doesn’t fit the description.

        1. paul says:

          Oh, well! It saves me the airfare 💔 Do you work at the Pentagon?

        2. Jenna says:

          Does that mean u still want to be involved w another psychopath? But i know u don’t tolerate their poor behavior.

        3. Lisa says:

          Ha ha , no paul doesn’t , just out of interest seeing your new pic , was Sharon Stone playing a narcissist or a psycopath?

      4. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:


        You’re funny.

        That was an interesting question…the pentagon question…

        What makes you think I could work for the pentagon?

        1. RS says:

          OMG! Is that really a picture of you? You’re gorgeous!!! You should be in the movies. . . no joke! If I looked like that I wouldn’t take crap from anyone!

          1. HG Tudor says:

            * palm to forehead *

          2. Lisa says:

            Your hilarious HG

          3. HG Tudor says:

            Thank you.

          4. RS says:

            Am I stupid and that is a picture of a movie star, or you don’t think she is?

          5. RS says:

            Is that Sharon Stone?

          6. RS says:

            Just looked up Sharon Stone. . .oh sure, you had to post THAT reply and make me look as dumb as a post.

          7. HG Tudor says:

            You wrote it.

          8. Diva says:

            Hey RS……Just blame it on the medication that’s what I do……(at least you have a cold and an excuse!!!)……..It was a bit funny though…… doesn’t matter what you write……you always make me laugh…..but I will always laugh with you and never at you……THANKYOU……..Diva.

          9. RS says:

            I DO blame it on the cold medication, my head is in a fog! Between work and being sick, this has been a very shitty week for me. I agree though, it was funny, but I’m glad you’re laughing with me and not at me. 😄😉😘

      5. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:


        That is an interesting question. It depends. They have to be prosocial and we would need to have an understanding.

        I am not easy to deal with either.

        You would have two people in a relationship who are proficient in mind-fuckery.

      6. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:


        Catherine Tramell is a psychopath.

        I always loved her character.

        She is kind of like my later ego – minus the killing of course because I would like die inside if I hurt someone like that.

      7. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

        “What are you gonna do….charge me with smoking?”

      8. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

        I couldn’t help myself 😜

      9. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:


        This is a comical take on what would happen if I got involved with a psychopath or sociopath that tried to run game on me lmao…

        1. Jenna says:

          Doc, thx for the link. U r definitely sassy. I like ur style.

      10. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:


        We could only hope it wouldn’t end up like this lmao – both people breaking eachother toys…

        1. Jenna says:

          Oh my. That video is very relatable to me and probably to others here too – the cheating narc. He was (possibly) with others after we ‘broke up’ but he never told me. We would still see each other and hug, kiss, cuddle, etc.

      11. narc affair says:

        RS…thats sharon stone from the movie basic instinct. I had a woman crush on her and wanted to be her back then lol

        1. RS says:

          I think we all had a woman crush on her. That movie came out a long time ago so it wasn’t fresh in my mind. Working around people with dementia day in and day out . . . I think I’m catching it!! 😩​

          1. Jenna says:

            Rs, pls don’t discredit urself. U r not catching dementia, even though i think u meant that part as a joke.
            It was an innocent mistake. Not everyone watches all movies nor remembers scenes frm movies.

      12. kel says:

        OMG! What happened to Paul? He’s a fun commenter! This is from 2017. Oh well, guess we all move on.

  11. paul says:


    I’m not thinking about humiliation in a public sense but in a personal sense.
    Your life is being regulated by another. You’re losing your ‘sense of self.’
    Emotionally enslaved. If you could stand apart from yourself and look back, you would realise the humiliation. If you see what I mean?
    Yes, most people have no idea about narcissism and would care even less.

    Female narcs more cunning? Of course, you women have more weapons at your disposal. When we use words like: alluring, beautiful, seductive, beguiling, bewitching, enchanting, captivating…We don’t usually first think of men. You use: make-up, perfume, clothes… And, there’s the femme fatale! 😍

    You think I might be a cunning narc?

    HG wants to go global! A multinational business, perhaps? Rebranded as: Narc-U-Like, Apple-iance Inc, McTudors,…?

    1. Jenna says:

      Hi paul,
      I understand now – humiliation in the personal sense. That is very true. Yes, we do tend to lose our sense of self becoz we give and give, and then we forget what our boundaries r.
      However, i can also b v persistent. I used to question him, question him, and question him.
      ‘Well last yr u said this, why r u now saying the opposite?’
      If his response didn’t make sense, i would not stop until i was satisfied. He said he wanted to smash his phone.
      ‘Femme fatale’ – excellent point.
      Do i think ur a cunning narc? (I know it was meant as a joke but i’ll still answer it). No way. U have too much substance.
      “Narc-u-like” or “mctudors” – i like these two.

  12. Jess says:

    I have grown up with a narc mom and dated a few narcissists. I have learned to copy my own mothers evil look when I was being harassed as a teen. In my 20’s I worked in a large casino for along time. I could look at someone and tell you what drugs they were on if they were on drugs , and if they were about to try and commit fraud at my check cashing window. I realize now it was probably from looking them in the eye. I had one man come to my window at 3 am once that had the scariest look in his eyes. Like two black holes that were going to suck everything in the room up and destroy it all. I immediately felt like puking and I have never had a reaction like that before him or since him. I always felt like I met a true sociopath. Any thoughts?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Quite possibly. Either that or he put everything on black and it came up red.

      1. sandra says:


    2. Sniglet says:

      A movie I have recently watched showed a woman using belladonna eye drops to dilate her pupils giving her an evil appearance. Perhaps the man you encountered used the same plant extract to cover up his eye movements for a game of cards in the casino?

  13. Lisa says:

    HG are the dead eyes something you can control ? Do narcissists make them look dead by controlling their thinking or are they dead automatically ?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      It’s instinctive.

  14. Mona says:

    Happy birthday, windstorm2 !

    I am late, but hopefully not too late.

    A lot of luck, health and happy days for the following years !!.

    I wish you a lot of emphatic people coming into your life and sweeten it….

    1. Windstorm2 says:

      Thanks Mona! That was very sweet! I wish the same to you as well! I’m sure HG would agree, it’s just not possible to have too many empaths in your life!

      1. foolme1time says:

        Happy Birthday Windstorm 2! Hope it was as wonderful as you are!🌹😘

        1. Windstorm2 says:

          Thank you, foolme1time! Have a great week!

  15. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

    Happy Birthday Windstorm! Xoxoxox

    1. Windstorm2 says:

      Thanks, Dr Q!

  16. angela says:

    yo tambien he visto esa sonrisa torcida de asco
    oggggh what a shit…

    1. EraseViper says:

      Exactly Angela. Twisted smile.

  17. EraseViper says:

    I found it incredible that he would make a real shit show of fake tears. He would take off his glasses during a Skype call then proceed to say;
    “Can you see my eyes?”
    My response: “No?” (Of course I could)
    Him: “How about now? ”
    Me: “You’re a little blurry, sorry?”
    Damn it must be tedious work making your cry eyes match the tilted lip of your contempt. How dare I ruin your moment of fake feelings! Lol

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Tilted lip of your contempt is a good phrase.

      1. EraseViper says:

        Thanks. Isn’t contempt unique because it’s the only facial expression to show up by a lift or change in just one side of the mouth? A sneer? I read that somewhere and I see it everywhere and especially with those who feel entitled. Just look at certain past or present politicians when questioned about lying. 🙂 I actually said something to him about it. It took him by surprise because his words were full of remorse, apologetic at the time. If this conversation took place over the phone I would have missed it. Contempt, just under the surface when words and other gestures seemed so benign or caring. I wonder what he thought when I said “I see your contempt right now”. He denied it and covered it up. I suppose it no longer matters.

        HG…..Thank you for the insight and information.
        You truly are extraordinary, maybe even an anomaly (Of course you knew that 😒). You’re gifted with self realization despite the narcissism. You know who you are, why you act the way you do, and the impact on others. Most “normal” people struggle to understand themselves let alone others. Obviously you are extremely intelligent so it’s logical, to me that you may feel certain laws or social standards don’t apply to you. With that said, I would never, ever wish to wear one of your victim’s slippers.

        1. RS says:

          I would never, ever wish to wear one of your victim’s slippers.

          I am there with you on that one. He would put me in the loony bin for sure!😜

      2. paul says:

        Hi HG

        I have composed some generalised questions for you – see above request – but where/how should I post it on your blog, as this page seems inappropriate for it?

        BTW I notice that some comments have the red arrow and REPLY below them but not all comments have them. How does one reply to a specific comment without this feature?

        Thank you. Hope to hear from you.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          I do now know why the reply feature is absent at times. If you are replying to someone’s comment as opposed to making an observation I would suggest that you state the person’s name you are replying to, at the beginning of your message. As for your questions for me, just ask them in a comment.

    2. Tappan Zee says:

      This helps me so much! Love to laugh. Even at our expense. Collateral damage. Life boats off the titanic. Thankyou!

      1. RS says:

        That was funny!!! 😂

  18. Tiddlywink says:

    I saw that stare once for sure from my narc, and maybe more than once but didnt realise what it was. It felt dark frightening and yes.. felt like dread.. like something bad is going through his mind. Unless u experience it, it is difficult to explain that feeling as a recipient of that stare

  19. Jenna says:

    He is so secretive w me and i argue w him about it all the time! But i must stop arguing because i am tired n i don’t wanna know the secrets anymore!

  20. Sparks says:

    Hi HD,
    I’ve been with a married, greater narcissist whom I succumbed to over a year ago. He is a highly regarded member of society (someone I once admired)
    Myself being a super empath regonized
    From the start that something wasn’t right. Being a bit of a dark inquisitive individual I became entangled in his tendrils. For over a year I have escaped (he has never been able to disgard) I’ve always fled. But his hoovers have always brought me back. I’m a positive individual so he rarely extracted negative energy.
    I guess my question to you is, can your kind ever want help, I feel like I saw vulnerability (once) when he got drunk and shared a traumatic event that happened to him as a child. Also In hindsight I feel he was trying to let me know what a dark, heartless, calculated, vindictive monster he is. He would tell me he is not what he appears (me being me would tell him, none of us really are what we convey to the world and we all have darkness within)!!!! He hoovered me his last time August 15 and my SUPERNOVA narcissist traits took over, I unleashed on him. I figured out who he was and let him know, he has since retreated and I’ve heard nothing. In hindsight I see all sorts of red flags, flags that are suppose to instill fear in me. I dont back away from fear. I know it’s never the end with your kind. Should I fear his wrath??

  21. Kimi says:

    In the end, his eyes were either dead or seething with rage and hatred. I learned to read his micro expressions: the snarl of the upper lip, the clenching and unclenching of his fist, the “tsk” sound of his tongue being unfurled from his upper palate… I was a student then, a practitioner now. It has served me well…

  22. Lisa says:

    Interesting HG…however..
    I recently met, and yes ended up getting sucked into, a new guy. Sweet as can be (of course), full of compliments (I was wary at that point), great with mirroring (so I realised later), but…the eye thing…I could not hold his gaze. I found it very difficult. Can it work that way too then? I even got my girl friend to suss that out. She was ok with it. Was it just me? Was that another red flag?
    Thanks heaps…

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Do you mean he looked away from you or that he stared at you and you could not meet his gaze?

      1. Lisa says:

        I mean he was fine looking into my eyes, but I was really uncomfortable looking into his. I was wondering if I could sense something there…coming from within…
        Thanks for any advice…

        1. HG Tudor says:

          That can happen, it may well be that you did sense something untoward and he was struggling to mirror.

          1. Lisa says:

            Thank you HG. It litterally took me weeks to force myself to hold his gaze. It was unnerving….
            He seemed ok with it, but I sensed ‘something’. Really weird.
            The mirroring itself however did happen. Its only in retrospect that I noticed how much. Then….the dreaded disengagement. Almost silent treatment.
            He’s gone now. A cluster of behaviours is enough to get me running….just not worth ghe risk. TY.

          2. Lisa says:

            Again thanks HG. Yes. I think I shall take note of this in the future. It was the very first thing I noticed about him. Interesting…..

  23. M. says:

    “Look into my eyes”, he insisted when we made love. “Look into my eyes”. Entrapment-that was his goal. But when I looked, there was nothing there. His cold dead stare did not match his body language or his words. No real passion, just an act. I felt it. His stare was, in fact, revealing to me. Remembering that stare, helped me stay away from him.

  24. K says:

    He mirrored up until the very last year we were together (with one exception). During 2015 I got cold stares, fury, voids and the hatred. It was nuts! All those years together, while I was eating my eggs and toast, he sat across from me planning out how to extract fuel and punish me. Gullible tarts, anyone?

    However, he did say to me in 2015, (paraphrasing) “I can figure every one out but you. You are the only person I just can’t figure out. I know everything about everyone around me, but you.” He seemed distressed when he said this. I was very confused as to why he “needed to figure me out”. By 2015 I was fuel free and running on hate, maybe that’s why he couldn’t figure me out. Whatevs.

  25. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

    But… I can change the look in my eyes…sometimes you have to do that to throw people off…

    I can give a dead stare or I can mislead people into believing I’m thinking Or feeling one way when it’s really something else….

    To be honest with you I believe that highly empathetic people… really high on the empathetic spectrum can be just as manipulative as psychopaths the only difference is we have trouble or cannot execute things that you can due to our conscience.

    1. paul says:

      Forgive me, I’m a newbie here. Do I read you right? Are you a psychologist and also a narc…an HG with qualifications? Are you answering questions or just making comments/observations?

      1. paul says:

        Duhhh. Should have done it first…just checked your name. You are a character in Batman comics! Thought it was a weird name.

        1. Windstorm2 says:

          Welcome, Paul. Glad you’re here!

          1. paul says:

            Thank you, and also to the others here who bade me welcome 🙂

            Incidentally, I have a few generalised (non-personal) questions about narcissism I’d like to ask HG that have not been covered in previous videos. I don’t mean a private paid consultation. Any ideas about this?

          2. Windstorm2 says:

            What I do when I have questions is just ask them. Usually they are brought to mind by an article, so I ask them in a comment for that article. He may answer or not, but maybe one of us could answer also. Sometimes he leaves commonly asked questions to those of us who’ve heard the answer before.

            In my experience shorter, relevant questions are answered more quickly. The longer questions or those that require more thought usually take longer. He is a busy man and triages comments for efficiency. If he feels he needs more info from you to be able to answer, he’ll suggest a consultation.

            Ive had questions answered instantly and I’ve had questions take more than a month to get an answer and some I never hear back about. My advice would be to streamline them and just ask. 😊

      2. K says:

        Don’t feel bad, Paul. A few commenters here didn’t realize that Dr.Q was character in Batman. Welcome, BTW!

        1. RS says:

          I didn’t know that either until just now! 😄

        2. paul says:

          It has been a long time since I read(?) the comics! Talking about ‘the stare.’ It was that fixed look, the way that cats look at you. She’d do it when about to open up with a tirade of verbal insults or complaints about something trivial I’d done /said. She’d move up to my face and say,”Look into my eyes.” Scary shit! I remember thinking, “I’ve seen this film somewhere before!” But, the one that really threw me off balance was the enraged version: the look of sheer hatred and malice that would appear – transfixing. Now as I look back, I probably should’ve responded with, “Go fuck yourself,” and laughed in her face. Anybody ever tried that?

          1. Windstorm2 says:

            I have laughed and walked away from the dead look. My experience was not good. They could explode in anger and be violent or create a resentment that they held on to for years and used to punish me. My best response was always to just shut down and show no emotion at all, like I was empty. Sometimes I would look back with my own dead look, but if I felt any danger I looked at the floor.

          2. Indy says:

            Hi Paul,

            Ah, you have experienced that stare! It is the predator stare, laser beams of fire. It is meant to intimidate you into submission. There are other stares too, like the dead stare with the flat face/neutral…that one is almost non-human and droid like. Have you experienced that one?
            Are you still with the narcissist? Sorry if you already said somewhere else.

            The thing I would do when I got the flat face with dead eyes was leave the house. Laser beams always triggered my anger and I would give fuel unknowingly by getting angry and ask WTF if it came from no where(often did). Fortunately, the recent one and I did not live together. Thank god. I went to my safe space. Kept me relatively sane. Relatively lol…

          3. paul says:

            Thank you, Indy.
            Yes, I got a range of unearthly gazes but it was the “Chucky” one that hit the most, and as it came out of nowhere. I think they save that one for the occasions when there’s no one else around and they can mentally stomp on you unrestrained. I’ll never forget it. Just by chance, I think I responded the right way whenever she kicked-off at me in public (bizarrely, exactly three glasses of wine always did it!) by just walking out and leaving her there. Of course, she’d come back, two or three days later, with an apology, that wasn’t. They don’t do ‘sorry’ as we know!

            It’s been eight months since I finally convinced her I was ‘poor fuel’ though it hasn’t stopped the occasional email telling me, “how well I looked,” etc. I don’t see her!

            I’m not affected by her now; and I wasn’t with her for long anyway. I was saved by someone who recognised the traits which led me online. I’m now interested in the ‘snake that bit me’ and learning more about them from other victims…and HG, of course.

          4. Indy says:

            Hi Paul,
            Nice job walking out during that drama escapade! Good move. Yes, their apologies are always insincere to continue there fuel game. And congratulations on leaving and remaining out of that mess! A Chuckie look!! Wow! That’s intense! Was she ever violent with you? What happened after three glassses of wine?

          5. paul says:


            Walking out: It seemed the only thing to do, in a public space, and I knew it would derail her – passive-aggressive move? At the time, I thought it would really annoy her, possibly humiliate, but I’ve since learnt that they can switch between anger and calmness effortlessly because they (obviously) don’t feel what they’re showing – it’s only for emotional domination of the resource. I think that walking away is like going ‘grey rock,’ it closes them down, they don’t know what to do, as there’s no emotional input to work with.

            I also began to notice more the smug, pussycat smirk whenever she thought she’d bested me, but I didn’t know what she was, of course!

            Wine: At first, she was careful to only stick to Diet Coke then moved on to a little wine. It was only when she had three glasses (like flicking a switch) she’d go into ‘savage mode,’ with the eruption of personal insults. She’d use anything personal I’d told her as a weapon. On one occasion – we had previously been talking about families, and I’d mentioned the death of my mother and how diificult it had been – she brought this up again. I put my fist to her face and said, “If you say any more, I’ll put you through that wall!” She stopped and smirked at me. ‘Chucky mode’ occurred whenever she felt personally slighted – usually hard to identify why. She didn’t ever become physically violent, though. N.B., I say Chucky, as that’s the nearest similar, but it was worse because it wasn’t a doll but something else…inhuman.

            Theory: I think she was a Golden Child. So she was materially overindulged but not subjected to violence. It was emotional neglect that made her. Whereas, one that has been subjected to violence is more likely to react as a violent adult. And, the earlier in life the violence occurs the more likely a psychopath results…but I could be totally wrong?

            How’s it with you, Indy? Are you free now? Was it a long relationship/ torment?

          6. Jenna says:

            Hi paul!

            I’m glad u r not affected by her anymore! Excellent! 👏👏👏

            But i must correct u. Many narcs do say ‘sorry’, tho they don’t mean it. It is part of maintaining the facade. My ex used to say sorry all the time.

            I’d like to know, how is your experience here so far? Like indy stated, most of us are friendly pple. Lol!

            It is valuable to have a male perspective. There are some other males here too, but not many. I am finding ur posts interesting, and i’m enjoying ur humour!

            Hope u stick around for the long haul! There is much upcoming which will be revealed piece by piece!

          7. paul says:

            Thank you. I think I got off easy, unlike many out there!
            Sorry: Yes, that’s right. I meant the word is meaningless to them. Actually, it’s the last thing she said to me. I’d walked out on her for the last time, clear in my mind that I’d played this out long enough. About two weeks later, I answered the door, and she stood there, “I’ve come to say I’m sorry.” I said, “That’s alright Amanda, let it go now,” and shut the door. For the previous few weeks I’d been trying to avoid inflicting the ‘narc wound’ because of possible repercussions. Hard to explain here, but it’s connected to this small town (I’m a stranger) and her long-standing family.

            The “experience” is fine to me! It’s good to be able to talk about something that most people would rather keep private because, I believe, it’s humiliating to have a narc in your life; and unless you have the marks to show or an empty bank account it remains, ‘your problem.’

            From what I’ve seen online, elsewhere, women are believed to be the main victims of narcs, male narcs, but I don’t think that’s necessarily so, as it seems to be down to the mother, a bad mother, a bad mother f….. Continuously producing the next generation of narcs – like Alien? Of both genders.

            “Much upcoming?”

          8. Jenna says:


            Yw and thx for clarifying. Wow! U shut the door on her! How bold! I’m excited! 😄

            Do u really think ‘it’s humiliating’ to have a narc in ur life? Maybe, if pple actually knew what a narc is. Many pple just think it’s the man who fell in love w his own reflection, not realizing it’s MUCH more than that. The lack of empathy and lack of certain feelings, many pple do not even know abt.

            Yes, it does seem like a ‘matrinarc’ as hg calls her, is responsible, at least in part, in many cases w the formings of a narc, male or female.

            I heard that female narcs r much more cunning than male narcs. I’m sure i’ll get to determine if that is ur case.

            Yes paul, you read it right! There is much upcoming! Hg has a ‘grand design.’
            He wants to be the #1 source on the planet for narcissism, and he is doing so by revealing ‘piece by glorious piece’ (his words). We must b patient and wait for those pieces to b revealed.

            It is v fun to interact w him because his grandiosity is off the charts and it is evident that we r not interacting w a ‘normal.’ 😄

          9. Jenna says:

            Paul, i did comment on ur reply to me, but it’s in moderation. Just wanted to let u know that I am not ignoring u.

      3. Brian says:

        Paul, any overt aggression is met with a pity play to all the people around you.
        “he told me to go fuck myself, I dont know what to do with him, he obviously has mental issues!” (wipe tear)
        and then it will be brought up many many times.

        the act itself probably gives fuel if said in an emotional tone, and might wound if said in a neutral tone.

        1. paul says:

          Yes, that’s right! I suppose I already knew that. Easy to forget that they’re really a different species – admittedly not scientifically accurate!

          Are we the only men on here?

          1. Diva says:

            Are you forgetting about HG????

          2. HG Tudor says:

            I come under the category of a god, Diva.

          3. Diva says:

            Good to know ……I thought perhaps you had gone through gender reassignment and I had missed the article……my error……more punishment no doubt!!!!! Diva

          4. paul says:

            Diva, Jenna, RS, Indy…

            Qte: “I am the God of Hellfire and I bring you…” HG could probably sing it quite convincingly!

          5. HG Tudor says:

            a nice cup of tea?

          6. paul says:

            …but, what’s in it?

            Now that you’re here, may I ask you HG questions about narcissism more broadly – for your viewpoint/ reflections in terms of society/ sociology ? Would that be OK, and how, on your website?

          7. HG Tudor says:

            Yes by all means ask and I shall address them as and when time allows.

          8. RS says:

            😄I love it!!

          9. Diva says:

            Hmmmm………making the tea????………I think that pink shirt comment brought out your feminine side HG…….Diva

          10. RS says:

            That was perfect! 😂

          11. Jenna says:

            Paul, the god of this site and the ‘god of hellfire’
            Nice to see u interacting w us!! Stat tuned for more drama on! Lol!

          12. RS says:

            Who sang that song and what was the name of it? That’s the only line of it that I can remember.

          13. HG Tudor says:

            Arthur Brown. The opening line Paul mentioned has been heavily sampled.

          14. RS says:

            Thank you. (it figures that you would know the artist) 😉

          15. Indy says:

            Hi Paul,
            Welcome aboard! I hope you find the answers and support you are looking for here. We are all pretty friendly folks!

            I do not know the lyrics, though sounds about right LOL


          16. Jenna says:

            True, as u r the god of this virtual world u have created!!

          17. RS says:

            Oh my, oh my!! 😄

          18. Diva says:

            Hi RS……maybe this is why I am an atheist!!!!!………..Diva

          19. RS says:

            I am too. Just the fact that anyone can think THAT highly of themselves. . .

          20. paul says:

            A Catholic and a Jehovah’s Witness are sitting together on a plane. After chatting for a while the Catholic turns to the JW and asks,”How can you believe that stuff, it’s obviously all made up?” The JW says, “Just give it a thousand years, or so!”

          21. RS says:

            😂too funny – you’re a hoot, Paul!

          22. Indy says:

            He he!

            Well, if you are going to be grandiose, might as well be god too, right?

            Affirmed agnostic here 😉

          23. RS says:

            You have a point there, Indy!😄

      4. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

        Hey Paul,

        Welcome new friend!

        Yes…I’m a psychologist.

        No… I am not a narcissist lol.

      5. Twilight says:

        Welcome Paul

        I told my husband he was going to die alone in the coldest and most heartless way I could……then he did.
        That is as close to telling one to f@@k off as I have come to….

        Nice to see more men here and reading your perspective of things.

        1. paul says:

          Thank you 🙂
          Yes, that must have been the very best moment for you! The last word. Final closure. The memory will fade.

          Probably not so different for men. We can all be poisoned the same way.

    2. Brian says:

      Paul, oh yes been there done that a few too many times 🙂

      HG what is Diva’s punishment going to be for her egregious error?

      1. HG Tudor says:

        The Naughty Step.

        1. Diva says:

          Is that all!!!!! I am disappointed……I thought I would have at least made it into the forthcoming “spanked” article!!!!!! ……..Diva

          1. Indy says:

            Ha Diva,
            Look closely at that step, you will see names and claw marks carved into it. Ignore the blood spatter!

          2. Diva says:

            Hi Indy…….I am being audacious………….it comes naturally to me……….providing that I am hiding behind this key board and computer screen!!!!!!! Diva

          3. RS says:

            😄 Yes, hiding behind the computer screen does have a way of making one much more bold, doesn’t it?!

          4. Indy says:

            Oh I know, Diva. I was just playing with ya. Many of us old timers of the blog have spent some time warming that step. I think once I was banshee to the cold step once, or the ice room or something. I call mittens and throwing snowballs.

          5. Diva says:

            Hi Indy…….I know you were playing with me…..I have a very varied and quirky sense of humour… need never fear about upsetting me (I am always more concerned if I have upset anyone else!!!!)…….I can see the humour in anything and everything, no matter how dark the topic… gets me through life. Now, onto the subject of that naughty step………I am very comfortable on that step. Due to my innate defiance, I have spent more time on it, than off it……… can be peaceful and quiet there…….sometimes the naughty step is better that the alternative!!!!!! I think “The Naughty Step” should follow “Spanked.” I am intrigued as to what HGs Naughty Step entails……….maybe I should have asked that question before I stated “I am very comfortable on that step.”……….ignorance could be bliss!!!!!……..HGs Naughty Step may not be as comfortable as the ones I have previously sat on!!!!!!! It might be covered with nettles (HGs favourite plant)…..they bring me out in a rash………Diva

      2. narc affair says:

        Did someone mention the spanked article? 🤗😄😇

  26. Dana P says:

    HG, It is hard to explain…but, I feel that your were born to do this. I don’t believe that there is anyone else that could do this as effectively as you are doing this. Many Thanks…but so sorry that you were ever put in this position through your nightmare childhood!

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Thank you Dana.

  27. gabbanzobean says:

    2 questions:
    1. Does it bother you when we ask you what you’re thinking?
    2. You have already explained how you mirror us, but how do you get your eyes to show the dead cold stare to show back at us? I have often wondered why the eyes can look so brown and fulfilling for a moment and then black, cold and dead the next? Is it chemical? Is the fuel you wish to draw like that of a drug induced high?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      1. Depends if you are in seduction or devaluation.
      2. Instinct.

  28. Windstorm2 says:

    Most of my narcs have always used the flat look with me. Almost never has one tried to mirror me. But I think that’s because I learned early as a child to never look people in the eyes, except for an occasional glance when they were talking. I always instinctively felt that looking people in the eye, especially when I am talking, is dangerous. I got occasional grief about that for not having enough self confidence. Now though, I think it was probably a good self defense strategy, being an empath in a family full of narcs.

    But even good strategies are often inspired and motivated by fear and then kept in place by paranoia. And yes, I know even paranoids have real enemies. But still, HG, I think both your strategy and mine are based in fear – and sometimes that’s an irrational fear. I don’t think that means we necessarily need to stop using them, but I believe for both of us we might benefit to not rely on them so exclusively.

    Well that’s my little bit of first day being 60 wisdom. I may even try to look someone in the eye tomorrow when they talk to me (probably scare them if they’re family 😝). Happy September all!!

    1. Jenna says:

      Happy bday windstorm! I missed u over the wknd!

      1. Windstorm2 says:

        Thank you!! I always celebrate bday weekends, so I have an extra day bc of the holiday! I’m excited to begin a new decade. Hope you have a great September.

        1. Jenna says:

          Thx! U too windstorm!

    2. Happy birthday 🙂

      1. Windstorm2 says:

        Thanks, strongerwendy!

    3. Diva says:

      Hi Windstorm2…….Happy Birthday…….now I know why I like you so much… are a Virgo…….after reading your posts I should have guessed…..nearly all of my true friends have been Virgos……it may be nonsense to you and others……but I live by it……..Diva

      1. Windstorm2 says:

        Thank you!
        I have never studied astrology. It is never really mentioned here. If people believe in it, they keep it to themselves. It’s not really part of our culture.

        One thing you mentioned in another post that IS part of our culture is insulting/harassing/trash talking friends and family. That is done all the time, especially among men. So many here like to think of themselves as Irish, maybe that’s a part of the Irish culture their ancestors brought over here with them. 😉

      2. RS says:

        Diva. . . Mine too! My best friend from Jr. High was a Virgo and we are still friends to this day. When I really like someone, especially a man, I ask them if they’re a Virgo and 9 times out of 10, they are!

      3. RS says:

        I forgot to add that usually, after talking with someone for a little while, I can tell them what sign they are. It’s hard to tell what sign a narc is though because their sign is “narc”. None of the usual characteristics of the sign show up on them. They are a sign unto themselves! 😉

    4. ava101 says:

      Happy Birthday, Windstorm!! All the best for the next decade. 😉

      1. Windstorm2 says:

        Thanks, Ava!!

    5. RS says:

      Happy Birthday Windstorm2! Welcome to the 60’s!

      1. Windstorm2 says:

        Thanks, RS! I’m hoping it’s going to be a good decade for me – at least a lot better than the 1960’s! They sucked!! Your comment sort of scared me for a moment. Had a moment of panic – what if these 60’s are similar?!? Lol! I’m hoping for opposite. I was trapped and powerless in a hateful narc family in the 1960’s. Now I’m independent and retired with a loving family for this decade. 😄

        1. RS says:

          I said that because I am 60. Shhhh. By the way, I loved the 60’s. Great memories. First boyfriend, first open-mouthed kiss, the BEST music, the list goes on and on. 😉

          1. Windstorm2 says:

            Well I did wonder….but I wasn’t going to ask. Glad you enjoyed the 60’s and have pleasant memories. At least I’ll never be one of those people who long for the past and wish they could go back. 😄

          2. RS says:

            The clothes were fun then too! I don’t want to go back to that age but the time was fun. Not so much for my brothers who had to go to Vietnam.

      2. narc affair says:

        Hi windstorm…I always wanted to grow up in the 50’s but im sorry to hear the 60s werent a good memory for you. The 90s were my golden era. The past 6 yrs not so good so its reassuring to hear when others say their lives improved.

        1. Windstorm2 says:

          Narc Affair
          I’d have to say my life has been one of continual improvement. So far its nadir has to be before I was 16 (probably about 11-12). Looking back, I think what caused the improvements was me gaining power over my own life – driver’s license, graduating school, getting married, etc. Lots of people don’t deal well with their kids growing up and leaving home, but that was another milestone of independence for me. Divorce and my own home and things and now retirement have continued to add to my independence and freedom.

          As you continue to learn more about yourself and gain your own independence, hopefully your life will keep getting better and better as well. If you’re like me, your attitude will continue to improve and that will ensure that your future does as well! Keep looking forward and think positive! ❤️

      3. K says:

        Happy Birthday, WS2! I hope all your birthday wishes come true.

        1. Windstorm2 says:

          Thank you, K!!

    6. Tiddlywink says:

      Happy birthday to u Windstorm2.. stay well away from those pesky narcs!! Have a lovely day 😊

      1. Windstorm2 says:

        Thanks, Tiddlywink!
        Can’t stay away from all of them. Some are close family. Had lunch with two yesterday and getting ready to have brunch with two today. But don’t worry about me. None of the ones I interact with are hateful or dangerous. I enjoy fueling the polite and amusing. 😊

    7. Twilight says:

      Happy Birthday Windstorm2! I hope you have a wonderful day of celebrating YOU!

      1. Windstorm2 says:

        Thank you, Twilight!!

    8. narc affair says:

      Happy birthday windstorm!!! Were both virgos! 🤗🤗🤗 hope your day was a lovely one! 💓

      1. Windstorm2 says:

        It was. The whole weekend has been. Hope yours is/was as well!

    9. ANK says:

      Happy birthday WS.

      From a fellow Virgo ♍ 😘

      1. Windstorm2 says:

        Thank you, ANK!!
        And happy bday for yours as well!

      2. ANK says:

        My birthday is next Monday WS. Thank you for the good wishes. 😘

    10. Kimi says:

      Happy Birthday Windstorm2!!!💐🌺🌷🎂🌹🌸💐

      1. Windstorm2 says:

        Thank you, Kimi!!

    11. Indy says:

      Hi Windstorm!
      Happy birthday to you!!!! 🎈🎈🎈🎈❤️Yes, the stare. It was one of my first signs. It is an interesting conversation about eye contact frequency, gaze intensity and associated affect of the face. When I was s child, I had very reduced eye contact out of anxiety and shyness. I barely spoke. As an adult, I assess all of these things daily, specifically eye contact, intensity and affect. I look at eyes all day 🤣 I use it quite consciously as I had to learn not to be shy. (Yes, believe it or not, I was a weirdo shy geek kid).

      Here is what I noticed with the last narc (upper midrange): when his mask slipped or cracked or his was just pissed he went flat. Hard core flat, which is erie. His eyes went dead and empty looking. They almost turned a cloudy grey, he had hazel eyes ordinary. Turned to steel grey. Cold. Interestingly, It is like some children on the autism spectrum as well….some, not all. My grandson with ASD can do it, though he purposely does it when mad. Like lasers. Not flat though. Otherwise, he always smiles. I also have noticed the prolonged state by those with what was formally called Aspergers. Though the quality is different, not predator like, more unaware that it’s not socially appreciate. I’ve only met two young children that sent shivers with the “black inky eyes” look, they were not ASD. I’ve assessed hundreds of kids, it’s a rare thing to see murderous looking fury like that in a very young kid. I wonder to this day who those two are doing now as it was about 10 yrs ago.

      I do wonder about this phenomenon of the “turning black” in the eyes thing. Is it pupil expansion or extra shadow from a lid or what as eyes can’t change color like that, I don’t believe. Anyone know? I’ve seen it, but do not know how it is done.


    12. abrokenwing says:

      Happy birthday Windstorm! Best wishes to you!

      1. Windstorm2 says:

        Thanks, abrokenwing!! Have a great week!

    13. M. says:

      Windstorm 2, I am a bit late, I guess, but wishes fly from me to you like butterflies!

      1. Windstorm2 says:


    14. Yolo says:

      Happy Birthday Windstorm 🎂🍨🥂

      I agree with you regarding using fear as a catalyst to achieve our aims. Not exactly your words😊 Fear can work as a great motivator for some and detrimental to others.

      I dare you to greet someone today, look them in the eyes without fear of falling into the abyss.

      “Do not forget that the value and interest of life is not so much to do conspicuous things…as to do ordinary things with the perception of their enormous value.”

      Pierre Teilhard de Chardi

      1. Windstorm2 says:

        Thank you, Yolo!! I’m in a hermit stage right now because of a cold settled in my chest. Won’t see any people for a few days, but I will try to remember your challenge and look people in the eye when I get back out. I meant to yesterday at the restaurant, but it was a somewhat uncomfortable situation and I was more in survival mode. I think I’ll have to feel really safe and confident to pull it off. After all, out goes against an entire lifetime of experience! 😊

    15. Indy says:

      Hi Windstorm!
      Happy birthday to you!!!! 🎈🎈🎈🎈
      Hugs and warm vibes!!

      1. Windstorm2 says:

        Thank you, Indy!!

  29. MyTrueSelf says:

    I have experienced this cold, dead, stare on a couple of occasions. Both during rage. Both disturbing and unforgettable.
    His body taught, shoulders broad and project towards me. Hands tense and pulled behind his torso. His face straight on to me, cheeks pulled back, eyebrows in a ‘v’, jaw squared and eyes totally black voids.
    I stood frozen I didn’t know what to do. Should I move? Maybe not?
    He just stared, holding that position.
    I felt wet tears down my face.

    1. RS says:

      MyTrueSelf: That would have scared me to death! You poor thing. These people are so evil!!

  30. Lisa says:

    HG what are you thinking or are they thinking in their minds to stop this ?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I don’t understand your question Lisa,perhaps you could expand.

      1. Lisa says:

        Hi HG, you say we ringfence and make sure we can not penetrate or read your thoughts ? I thought the dead eyes were because they are not attached to emotions ? But are you saying this is something you/they control deliberately? So they don’t give anything away ? Thank you

        1. HG Tudor says:

          The ring fencing is the desired outcome, it occurs as consequence of the dead eyes.

  31. mistynolan01 says:

    I learned to watch for consistency in what people DO and whether their actions match their words.
    Never mind trying to read their minds. Never mind trying to glean from their eyes what they’re thinking. Never mind what they say; it’s mostly going to be bullshit anyway.

    There’s one thing a narcissist can’t do: make their words match their actions over a long period of time.

    Sure, they’ll tell you they love you. They’ll tell you that they’re honest and trustworthy. Just watch them over time and you’ll see their actions won’t match the beautiful words and their actions will reveal that they do not love you and that they are liars and not to be trusted.

    1. EraseViper says:

      Well said. Thanks

    2. Diva says:

      Very good advice…….Diva

    3. Windstorm2 says:

      That’s very true. It’s what they do, not what they say.

  32. RS says:

    I have seen that stare first hand and it is eerie, to say the least. He was talking to me again after a long silent treatment. It was Thanksgiving and I was driving to my brother’s house in Tucson. He was texting and on speaker phone. The whole time I was at my brother’s he kept sending nude pictures of himself. Of course, my brother and sister-in-law wanted to know who was texting. . . I couldn’t show them. I was just so excited he was talking to me again. That night, when I got back home, I asked him to send me a picture of his face because I had deleted all of his pictures when he stopped speaking to me. (I did that every time he did that to me) I didn’t see the picture he sent until the next morning and I was half asleep. When I put my glasses on and really looked at it, chills ran over me. It was that blank, cold, hard stare. I hardly recognized him. He was a different person. I thought maybe I was imagining the look but I showed it to a couple of my closest friends and they said the same thing. Your kind are shape-shifters!

    1. Jenna says:

      RS, “The whole time I was at my brother’s he kept sending nude pictures of himself.”
      I’m dying!

      1. RS says:

        I can laugh at it now. What a child he is!

        1. Jenna says:

          Humour is the best medicine! 😉

  33. Patricia J says:

    HG, my GN in the beginning and several times over 12 years looked in my eyes and stated
    “You are Dsngerous”.
    Was he speaking of himself onto me, or did he know I could be trouble for him?
    I had a Supe Nova with him.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      He was testing you. He wanted to see if you would disagree or not.

  34. Diva says:

    “This is why we ensure at all times that our minds are impervious to your penetration.”………..Does this apply to all narc types……or are some types more advanced at this than others……such as the greater or greater elites. I may not know exactly what is going on in the mind of a narc, but I do sense that something is not as it should be. As my midrange once stated……”you may think you know what I am thinking but you don’t”……..I am now relieved that I was probably wrong…….ignorance is bliss…….but I knew something was odd, strange, bizarre, not normal……I just could not put my finger on what it was. If anything it intrigued me all the more………Diva

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