I like it when you are lonely. That is my favourite place for you. When we first meet if you make mention of feeling lonely, or send a self-pitying tweet decrying your loneliness then I am straight on to you. You may as well have taken a knife to your chest, slit it open and shouted, “Come and get me.” Those in a state of loneliness are massively susceptible to my overtures when I decide to engulf you in my bombardment of flattery and zealous appreciation. Those who have tired of their single status and wallowing in solitary confinement seize on this interest of mine. The red flags may be fluttering but you never see them or if you do, you think “how pretty”.

I may make you feel wanted and special but all I am doing is moving you. I am transporting you from loneliness in the real world to isolated splendour in my false reality. Once I have positioned you there I shall busy myself cutting you off from family, friends and acquaintances. You will readily go along with my fabricated denigrations of people you once held dear and who you saw regularly. You want more of the sugar that I am pouring on you. To do that you need to spend more time with me and thus less with anyone else. It is hardly a sacrifice though is it? Any dissenting voices are marginalised by cleverly constructed smear campaigns against these people (watch out – that campaign will be used against you in the not too distant future). You are an eager co-conspirator happy to discard these people (how can you be so callous?) with the repeated promise and reward of more of my intoxicating attention.

Once all those ties have been cut you are mine. You are dependent on me for everything. You have nobody to turn to and thus your focus will always be on me. As you try harder to please me, the realisation of your isolation becomes all the more apparent. You can feel the tendrils of loneliness wrapping around you once again. I know you will feel this and I know you will do all the more to cling onto me, your life raft, your beacon of hope in the wilderness. Anything to avoid being left alone. I am afraid it is too late. Your isolation was sealed the moment you listened to me. You are so alone nobody can hear you scream.

306 thoughts on “Lonely

  1. sarabella says:

    When I think of it, he threatened to destroy things in my life. But it was slick. He said, “I don’t want to be the one to break up your marriage.” But if I look back, it was in fact, an indication that he knows he is destructive. And likely has ruined other people’s relationships on purpose. So the comment didn’t come out of ANY concern for me and his impact on my life, but out of knowing what he does. Sick.

  2. Jenna says:

    Kim, black and white thinking is typical for many borderlines.

    However, i am able to see gray.

    For example, one friend said the following to my mother:

    Friend: we would like to invite you for dinner tomorrow nite

    My mother: i would love to come but since i’m in town only for the wknd, it is not so
    convenient for me. But thank u v much for the offer (my mom had flew in frm out of country).

    My friend: actually, it is not convenient for us either

    My mother felt hurt by her comment. I also felt hurt. I apologized to my mom on her behalf.

    I recognized that perhaps my friend felt rejected and thus made the remark. I did not paint my friend black, as extreme borderlines would do.

    This friend has also said that my hair bandana looks like i quicky wrapped a towel around my head after a shower. I was hurt but i kept quiet. I brushed it off.

    I remain friends w her because her goodness outweighs these episodes. I am able to see gray.

  3. Star says:

    Hello Paul:) yes I completely understand your concerns. It’s so scary getting out there again, and so hard to trust people. It’s been A bit over a year and a half since my ex, and I have just started kind of dipping my toes in the dating thing. I used to be hyper suspicious of everyone. I would disect everything someone said as a “red flag”. I was constantly triggered by something and internally would feel as tho I was falling apart. In retrospect I probobly ran away from (lol or scared off)some pretty decent people due to my own fears and anxiety.But I also probobly protected myself from some not so decent. There are always going to be people who sadly manipulate and or want to use others or hurt others. It’s unfortunate, but I guess my thinking is that I trust myself to protect myself.But yes, the world is soooo different after a narc experience, isn’t it?.On the one hand one dosent want to have that innocent blind trust, but on the other hand dosent want to be completely hardened and closed off to a potentially trusting relationship.RS is probably right about a 50/ 50 chance. Its a gamble:)

  4. RS says:

    K: Does anyone remember the scene in Jaws where they compare scars. We can compare childhoods and see who has the biggest scar from a Narc-shark bite. Remember when Richard Dreyfuss pointed to heart and said: “I got the creme de la creme, right there, Mary Ellen Moffett, she broke my heart.” Then he laughs. That was a great movie.

    I loved that movie (scared me shitless but. . . ) I remember going to the Round-Up drive-in with my sister and my best friend when it came out. We had 2 bottles of Boone’s Farm Strawberry Hill and drank them both. Good times! Summer of 1975.

    1. narc affair says:

      RS….Lol jaws is a favorite. The captain i found funny. Him and his “dollzzzz eyezzzz” 😄

      1. RS says:

        1975 was a long time ago. . . I can hardly remember what I had for breakfast yesterday! I think I will have to rent that movie and watch it again. I am sure I missed much of it the first time as we were all drunk on the Boone’s Farm! 😜

      2. narc affair says:

        Rs….Id love to see jaws on big screen. Growing up i had a fascination with sharks and marine life. I wanted to be a marine biologist but didnt live near the university that had the degree so went into something else.
        Jaws on big screen would be a thrill! Years ago they shut all our drive ins down.

        1. RS says:

          What an interesting profession that would have been! I truly envy those who have an occupation that they love doing. Seeing Jaws when it first came out at the drive-in WAS great. Would have been even greater with surround-sound instead of hearing it come out of a metal box hanging off the driver’s side window! 😉 All the drive-in’s shut down here years ago.

    2. K says:

      RS & narc affair
      Absolute favorite, ladies! I was scared shitless, too, and the captain was awesome. Classic movie. Let’s get some Boone’s Farm Strawberry Hill, get wasted and compare scars.

      1. narc affair says:

        K …..Sounds like fun but i scream at the scary parts and the popcorn goes flying😂😄

        1. RS says:

          RS & narc affair Absolute favorite, ladies! I was scared shitless, too, and the captain was awesome. Classic movie. Let’s get some Boone’s Farm Strawberry Hill, get wasted and compare scars.

          Sounds like a plan to me but I think if I drank Boone’s Farm now (do they even MAKE that anymore?) I would puke! 😜 I think we could find something much more sophisticated for our grown-up tastes. Comparing scars. . . . I like it!!😃 Date? Time?

        2. RS says:

          I forgot to add. . . I scream at the scary parts too, but I will, if drunk enough, eat the popcorn off the floor. 🙃

      2. narc affair says:

        RS…if drunk enough id dance in front of the screen 😂😂😂 good thing i dont drink much 😄

        1. RS says:

          I say let’s plan this little outing then! 😃👍🏻

      3. K says:

        narc affair & RS
        It could be an educational field trip. Narcs are like sharks, always swimming in search of food/fuel. And empaths are like delicious seals just waiting to be devoured by the narc/shark. Let’s plan it for the new moon on September 20th, wacky Wednesday. Screaming is great fuel BTW. Popcorn, Milk Duds and booze, ladies! And RS, if you eat popcorn off the floor, I will LMAO. And narc affair, for the love of all that is holy and good, no dancing in front of the screen! Or it will be time-out for you!

        1. RS says:

          An “educational field trip”. . . yes, let’s call it that! September 20th – be there or be square. Too bad we can’t really do this, I could use a wacky Wednesday. By the way, K, I would only eat popcorn off of MY floor because I know they are clean enough to eat off OF. 😄

      4. narc affair says:

        RS and K…its a virtual date! Lol lets each do something wacky that day and report back 😂 it is too bad we dont live closer thatd be a hoot! 😄

        1. RS says:

          I will do my best to find something wacky to do on that day! Yes, it is a shame we don’t live closer, we could get into so much trouble! 😄​🙃​

  5. Jenna says:

    Thank u diva, narcaffair, dr. Hq, kimi, k, windstorm, kim, c*, star, yolo, narcangel for ur support. U r truly genuine pple who believe in equality and standing up for what u believe in.

    Does goodness exist? Yes, in many, but not in all. Be cautious or you will be crushed, even on an online forum.

    Taking all of ur advice, i will continue to participate here, with select individuals. I have learned MUCH frm this experience.

    Thank u everybody for ur valuable time.

    1. Twilight says:


      Thanking people for standing up for equalitity
      You manipulate this!!!!

      You came on here running with how you needed to be medicated, so distraught that you were barely functioning, going to leave the blog because you were butt hurt over a comment on your picture. Then You sucked up the sympathy!

      Where were you when another was insinuating another was a narcissist? You were right in the crowd banging that pot, and not even looking at the facts. Calling her a narcsissist! Standing up for equality, no running with the crowd.

      Why should another feel they have to apologise when you have in the past called them a Narcissist then insulted their pictures, and then your it was just a mistake card is played with an apology? And everything should be ok because you apologised. Are they not allowed to be angry? Did they retaliate when you called them a Narcissist? No, but they did when you insulted their pictures. Then manipulated people to feel sorry for you when you got a little of your own medicine.

      You made the list, you showed how many things are common between you and one with NPD.

      MANIPULATION is One of them.

      Now do I want you to leave? No, you are usually very polite, and I do believe everyone has a right to speak. I believe you have your own personal things you are and need to work on and being here will be helpful for you.

      Now if I hurt your feelings, believe me I will know. Not my intentions This is my perspective of how things went down.

      1. narc affair says:

        Hi twilight…this all started when HG fan said some incredibly mean things to ahoh. She said it wasnt surprising ahoh would have to masterbate on her own bc she was amazon looking and then made a remark that she looked much older than she said she was. Those remarks were ugly and i never did see the apology post to her for that? Maybe i missed it. That doesnt sit well with people and i could see how she would be viewed as a narc posting things like that. Then the beach ass pic which btw i personally didnt need to see. That smells of somatic. Im sorry if im totally off base but that is what triggered my posts.
        That said im over it and as said moving on but if you dont want people retaliating then dont post insulting posts about peoples profile pics…rant over.

        1. Twilight says:

          Narc Affair

          If I remember correctly it was established she is not a narc, maybe I am wrong and if I am I will apologise. Ah Oh is a Narcissist and had been rude and condescending to many here yet no one said a word to her. So when someone did in fact say something rude to her it was found to be offensive to many?

          For the record I am not insinuating Jenna is a Narcissist

      2. kimmichaud1 says:

        HG that comment was sexy OK I’m done now moving on

      3. cantevergoback says:

        I have no stake in this discussion at all as I am new to the blog but just want to point out that all the cluster B personality disorders share some similar traits…BUT Borderlines are often very codependent and are likely to be in relationships with people with NPD & they are NOT true empaths.

      4. Jenna says:

        Everyone has the right to anger. During anger, fact and polite opinion is acceptable. Ad hominem attacks are not.

        Manipulation was not on the list i made. Pls see ‘the support forum fraud.’

        1. Twilight says:


          Do you know what a Contagion Empath is?

        2. Twilight says:


          Everyone has a right to feel anger and to express it, for us we express it and move on.

          We have all been through so much and react/respond in ways that don’t always make sense to anyone but the person experiencing it.

          It felt manipulative to me. If I stated it was part of your list I need to go back and reread and at such time I will correct myself and apologise for it.

          IMO HGT#1F is still in a very angry stage and will at times express things in such manner.

          One thing that saddens me is seeing separation and side taking with out understanding what is going on. She took offense of your comments on her picture so she retaliate by making one of yours. It was a trigger for her. The comment on your rose picture I believe was genuine and reminded her of something her mother liked. Her mother is in or maybe was in hospice care. I took the comment farther down she may have passed away. I don’t know because I do not believe she answered my question.

          People took your side because you went on and on about how you were feeling and projecting those emotions and then you continued with it, demanding an apology so on and so forth, until you were satisfied with the results. This is why I see it as manipulative. You got people to side with you and to view her in a bad light again. She has been working on how she interacts in a more constructive way vs a destructive way. You never once pointed this out durning this time frame, only the negative and /or boastful comments she has made, her pictures of her bare bottom etc. People remember the negative more then they remember the positive and will always revert back to that.

          You have never been seen in this negative light like she has been.

          You are an intelligent woman, and I will not insult that by saying you didn’t know what you were doing. You are aware of what you are, you know exactly what to do to get your environment back under your control and feel SAFE again.
          This is my opinion

          Anger can come out in many ways….anger can also be a byproduct of hurt felt, especially hurt when feeling defenseless.

          My bottom line is both of you triggered the other and then let emotions dictate behavior.

          I let both of your emotions affect me, instead of separating them from mine to which dictated mine,

          I have never had and issues with you before or now.
          This is a place to be able to express ourselves, find support, understanding, healing and answers we need.

          I am in no way insinuating you are of HGs kind just so we are all clear on this.
          I do see you are healing from what has happened in your life. Just taking a path that is yours.

      5. Jenna says:

        Reason for being “butt” hurt:

        None of my therapists (5) or psychiatrsts (6) have asked me abt my childhood. My 7th psychistrist asked me, so i told him.

        I have only told him, my current partner last yr, my mother 2 months ago. I am telling u all now. Here it goes:

        I was 3.5 yrs old. I was separated frm my primary caregiver, and brought overseas. I was speaking fluently.

        My uncle was to babysit me while the adults were at work. He left me alone in the apartment instead. He told me to lay on the sofa. I did. He covered my body, including my head, with a towel. He told me not to move frm this position until he returns. I lay there on my back for hours, arms stiff at my side, head facing upwards.

        I dare not move, not even turn position. I was instructed not to. I remember everything abt that towel, including its pattern. The pattern looked like a lion. I dare not close my eyes or fall asleep else the lion may come and get me. I kept my eyes open. The lion was still, as long as my eyes were wide open. I feel the towel on my eyeballs. I must not blink.

        I start to have trouble breathing under the towel. If is difficult to breathe. I hope my uncle comes home soon. But he didn’t. He would come many hrs later and release me of my suffocation and my prison.

        I was not to tell anyone. I obliged. This went on daily on weekdays for months.

        Whenever i feel rejection or abandonment, i feel the same feelings i felt under that towel, and more symptoms, with great intensity. I have trouble breathing, my body starts trembling involuntarily.

        My 7th psychiatrist has analyzed it for me. It explained my intense panic attacks when i feel rejected/abandoned. God bless him.

        I feel sad/angry when i see injustice. I stand up against it. Maybe i should not. But my experience has shaped me to be like this.

        1. Twilight says:


          You should never have had to experience that.

        2. Twilight says:


          I could have worded that better, for that I am sorry.
          My opinion is still the same, please understand I don’t think your a bad person. I actually think your have strength, your beautiful, intelligent and have a lot to offer the world. You have triggers, you have ways you will deal with things to make yourself feel safe, I don’t fault you with that, I just could have been kinder and more constructive in stating my opinion.

          Separation in any form triggers me.

          1. Jenna says:

            Thank u. I’ve always liked u. U and me both, we seem to think very deeply. I often hide it on the blog, as i use the blog for humour w fellow readers and hg, as part of the healing process. But in actuality, i think very deeply about things. For the record, I also stand by what i say.

          2. Twilight says:

            We all view things from our perspective, we all have triggers it is finding constructive vs destructive ways in dealing with them.
            It starts with one and being truthful, sometimes brutally truthful with oneself. Why did this trigger me? Your answers to yourself shows how truthful you are to yourself. IMO it is one of the hardest things a person can do.

          3. Jenna says:

            Twilight, though we disagree on some issues, i feel we are more similar than different. We both think deeply, we both have our triggers, and we both stand up for what we believe in. We find it difficult to sit back and just watch.
            I hope this will not set us back in our interactions, as i would like to continue to interact w you. I have said it b4 – when u r away frm the blog, i do miss u. Continued healing to the both of us, and to all that are here.

          4. Twilight says:


            We are good, if you chose not to interact with me I would respect that choice. I hold no anger towards you. We disagreed said our peace. If there is still something we need to discuss to work through then this I would encourage.

            I have faith you will find your footing and you will spread your wings and fly solo one day….it is your journey to discover this so you see just how strong you really are. And that day you will rejoice within your heart and soul completely at peace.

          5. Jenna says:


            I am a little confused.

            I stated that ‘i would like to continue to interact w you.’

            You replied “… if you chose not to interact with me I would respect that choice… We disagreed said our peace. If there is still something we need to discuss to work through then this I would encourage.”

            Pls clarify the above for me. R u ok w me interacting w you in other articles?
            Or do u encourage further discussion to work through the happenings here only?

            I hope i conveyed my question sincerely.

          6. Twilight says:


            We are fine!! I would love to continue interacting with you.

          7. Jenna says:

            I’m glad u feel that way. So do i.

        3. Twilight says:


          Would you like to hear my story? Not bits and pieces but my story.

          1. NarcAngel says:


            Will you be sharing your story by submission of HGs letter exercise?

          2. Twilight says:

            Narc Angel

            The letter I thought was to be addressed to my ex

            Or am I misunderstanding you?

          3. NarcAngel says:


            Sorry Twilight, didnt mean to be intrusional. I immediately (and wrongly) thought your story involved your ex. I dismissed the letter assignment straight away for myself because I do not really have the romantic entanglements, but then I thought I could address it to any Narc in my life. Was just curious if that was the format you would be using was all.

          4. Twilight says:

            Narc Angel

            Yes sticking to the facts
            I do not have the time to write a horror story
            HG would never have time to read it so it could leave moderation.
            I have never done this yet….

          5. NarcAngel says:


            I was thinking that telling ones story can be both cathartic but also very painful. Please be kind with yourself in making sure that you are ready and in a good place if you do so and not because you feel you need to demonstrate to anyone. I hope that sounded the way I intended-that I have concern for you.


          6. Twilight says:

            Narc Angel

            I do understand
            I have no need to tell it to draw attention to myself if it can help another then I am willing to share. If not I am content just as things are.

          7. Jenna says:

            I agree with narcangel.

      6. narc affair says:

        (((Jenna)))…thats horrendous what your uncle had you do 🙁 the impact of that is incredibly damaging as a child. Did he threaten you if you moved? Have you blocked some of it out? I often relive my own past and we become used to whats happened to us we forget the impact its had. That wouldve definitely made an impact on you mentally. Im so sorry you endured that.
        In my stay gold post what i was getting at is to stay how you are and yes stand up for what you feel bc you were taught not to as a child. Just find a happy balance between advocating for justice and your health. Its not worth making yourself sick over in the process. Its about balamce imo. Dont change your goodness but do protect yourself as well ❤

        1. Jenna says:

          Narcaffair, he did not threaten me if i moved, but he was firm that i musn’t move. I complied because he was an adult and we must listen to adults.
          I think i had repressed parts of it. But when my panic attacks in 2014 became more intense and debilitating, and lasted up to one wk, i started slowly remembering that towel. Then everything came flooding back to me.
          Finally i had an answer, thx to my psychiatrist, why my body reacts in this manner.
          For example, when somebody unsubscribes frm the blog (separation, though insignificant), i start feeling the trembling strike.
          Yes, balance. I must remember that. Thank u.

        2. Jenna says:

          Note: the trembling frm a reader indicating that they r unsubscribing strikes trembling yes, but luckily that panic only lasts 5-10 min, no more.

          The panic frm this episode has lasted frm when it started, and is still ongoing. In the last two days, i’ve been getting small approx 1 hr breaks frm it now and again.

      7. narc affair says:

        Hi jenna…i know i was the same way when i was molested i blocked it out until my mid 20s and it came back to me. For years i felt awkward around women as far as hugging or being too close bc my abuser was a female. I didnt realise the extent that damaged me in how i relate to others but it did. To this day i still am triggered by certain things and i feel dirty and shameful.
        With unsubscribers to the blog is that abandonment issues? Im the same way i get attached easily lol i can laugh about it but ive had to learn over the years to detach easier especially online. I do get how youd feel that way tho.

    2. Jenna says:

      i’ve never said her photos are ‘airbrushed’
      I’ve not said i see ‘breasts’

      It was a compliment, but more importantly a comparison which i discourage

      Pls see:

      She did not apologize to the pple she attacked in ‘kiss me’

      I’ve moved on but wanted to point out the facts

      1. HG Tudor says:

        Enough. The topic is now closed.

      2. Jenna says:

        yes sir.

      3. Jenna says:

        Quite the opposite. Pple w bordeline traits have much empathy. Indy has said in the past ‘imho too much empathy.’

        I still give my ex narc positive fuel via text when he reaches out to me, partly because i’m co-dependent, and partly so he can get out of his relapse into depression. I cannot see him in such a condition. If it were simply for reasons of co-dependence, i would not comfort him and provide him with positive fuel. I would be content just hearing frm him and i would not provide praise, point out his accomplishments, etc.

      4. narc affair says:

        Hi jenna…youd mentioned that if you were just codependant youd not supply positive fuel but codependants do to keep that person around. They supply it to please the one theyre dependant on thats the very core of codependant imo. I cant speak for your situation but just what ive learned.
        I agree about borderline disorder many are empathetic and also hypersensitive. I think its a misconception out there that people with bpd are narcissists. They have narc traits but they dont lack empathy.

        1. Jenna says:

          Hi narcaffair,
          U raise some good points. Although w ex-narc, i could stop w simple praise that has nothing to do w his depression eg. u r cool, u r motivated etc. He would be content w that.
          But i don’t. I tell him that his past actions r not his fault due to his childhood sexual abuse, etc. I talk abt narcissism in detail. It bothers him. He does not want to talk abt narcissism. If i talk abt it, i risk losing him. But i must and do because then he will realize that his past actions r not his fault. I strongly believe this. I want to adress the depression itself so he will no longer b depressed. I cannot see him in this condition.

    3. Indy says:


      I saw this and wanted to say a few things to you because I care and i have gotten to know you and your story.

      You know I know about BPD very well and the intense struggles you deal with when it comes to emotional regulation, attachment and sensitivity to negative vibes in others. I get it and feel for you deeply. This place can be very hard for those with BPD and those that are highly sensitive to other people’s invalidation, especially with the various personalities that hop on this site. Many of use were raised in homes that did not teach to validate and thus, without knowing, we are hurting others. Some people are amazing and some, well, like life, are less kind and understanding of how they present themselves. Some like to stir the drama pot too.

      I know I am not guilt free of enjoying a drama fest here or there, and I also know it takes some tough skin to get through it. I have had to develop that tough skin, it took years sweety. Years of therapy. Those with BPD often have paper thin skin and it can feel very hurtful. I had suicidal ideation and high anxiety for years. And a few things helped:

      1.) Professional therapy with someone that knows and appreciates BPD. DBT worked for me, and I suspect it would be a good start, if you have not already.

      2.) A good psychiatrist to check medication. Some psychiatrists are crap, some are gems. Helps when starting to get mood regulated.

      3.) Supportive friends in real life that you meet with regularly. Do not isolate.

      4.) Limit exposure to toxic people. This is hard, as you have to spot them.

      5. Develop your self soothe skills. Look up DBT Self Soothe skills.

      6.) Never isolate and if you ever need help, please reach out to others.

      7.) Ignore and avoid people that threaten your peace of mind. They are not worth it.

      8.) Never let anyone take away your light.

      Those of you that do not know what BPD is, look it up. It is a rough journey. It takes great courage to battle it and develop coping. And, more often than not, those with BPD are targeted by toxic individuals as they can smell the vulnerability.

      Be easy with one another. Please. You never know what other people have had to survive. Especially here.

      Hugs and be safe,

      1. Windstorm2 says:

        Very wise words and great advice!

        1. Star says:

          I agree Windstorm2;) Indy always has such keen perspective and her responses are always so kind and thoughtful.

      2. kimmichaud1 says:

        Excellent advice just wanted to add another hallmark of BPD is splitting people into all bad or all good categories there is nobody in my opinion that is all good or all bad each and every one of us has behaved kindly and unkindly to someone at some point in our lives

      3. K says:

        I loved # 8, Indy!

      4. Jenna says:

        Thank u indy. I am glad the conversation has turned into one abt bpd, or hg may not let comments thru.

        None of my psychiatrists (7 in total due to relocation, trying to find one that can better help w ex narc situation) has recognized that i have borderline traits. My partner is a physician, and he recognized it. I had to actually tell my last 2 psychiatrists that this is how he feels. One of those psychiatrists wrote it down but never adressed it further. The other psychiatrist, disputed it. He said i have some symptoms that match with borderlines eg. fear of abandonment, but that i am not borderline. He asked me a trick test question. I answered it. He said my answer did not align with the answer a borderline would give.

        Having said that, i still categorize myself as borderline (i can be stubborn) because my emotions fluctuate day by day and i panic when i feel rejected and/or abandoned.

        That same psychiatrist also said b4 dbt, i require sessions with a psychiatrist/therapist who is trained in child psychiatry/therapy because i revert to a harmed child when faced with rejection.

      5. cantevergoback says:

        Jenna, Just to be clear–I did not say that borderlines lacked empathy; I said they are not true empaths.To me there is a big difference; please don’t twist my words. Also my original comment wasn’t specific to anyone just an observation after reading through
        posts. ~love & light~

        1. Jenna says:


          Welcome to the blog. I do understand u said they r not ‘true empaths.’ But i have to disagree w u. Many are not true empaths, but it depends on the severity of bpd.
          I do not have the disorder, i have some similar symptoms, eg. fear of abandonment/separation/rejection, fluctuating emotions.
          I am an empath. And, i have empathy. It may be evident if u read my other posts regarding ex narc.

          1. cantevergoback says:

            Thank you, I guess we will just have to agree to disagree!

        2. Jenna says:

          Although ur original comment wasn’t specific to anyone in particular, i wanted to point it out.

      6. narc affair says:

        Hi indy…great post and i always value your advice. I looked on facebook at dbt groups and theres some great info! Not just for borderlines but anyone in regulating their emotions. Ty for bringing this up 👍

    4. Borderlines are NOT true empaths. cantevergoback, said it best. In my opinion, borderlines are attention seekers.

      1. HG Tudors # 1 fan says:

        I have to agree, borderlines are not empaths. Not even close.

      2. Twilight says:

        Bourderlines are not Empaths, the can empathize which puts them in that category of empaths by societies terms, but they are not Empaths.
        There is a difference between one born and one that learns.
        They are highly sensitive they don’t “feel” the emotions of another. The sensitivity is learned from their experiences which in turn they learn to be empathic.

        1. Jenna says:

          Bpd is on a spectrum. Pple on the high end of bpd may not be true empaths. But pple on the lower end may very well be empaths.

          In my case, i have not been diagnosed as having bpd, but having some similar symptoms, eg. fear of abandonment/separation/rejection, fluctuating emotions, hyper-sensitivity. There are more bpd traits that i lack than i posess.

          My psychiatrist diagnosed me as not having the disorder. I thought i did. For purposes of simplicity on the blog, i refer to myself as ‘borderline’ due to these few similar symptoms.

          My empathy is very high. When i see images of starving children on tv, i begin to cry. When i hear of an ill family member, i begin to cry. When i watch a sad movie, i begin to cry.

          I can “feel” the emotions of another w great intensity. That is why i have always maintained on the blog that those w npd should not b scorned upon. It is not their fault they were abused. I can “feel” their pain. I thus try to help my ex narc and i tell him his actions r not his fault.

          1. Twilight says:


            Having empathy and it being triggered by a cue such as seeing a starving child and being intuitive to another without the cue is what makes the difference of an Empath and an empathic person.

            I am not going to argue with you on what you are or are not. You have made it very clear by your own words.

          2. Twilight says:


            What do you “feel” in regards with HG?

            I will tell you what I feel if you answer

            HG I hope you do not mind me using you in this way, if so please disregard this post.

        2. Jenna says:

          To be more specific, i feel sad for those narcs that don’t abuse children, that don’t impregnate their victims then run off, that don’t take or borrow money, that don’t turn your family and friends against you, that don’t hurt the elderly, the sick, the impoverished, the physically challenged, the opressed, and the defenseless, that don’t engage in name calling, that don’t condescend or tease others, that don’t use physical violence, that don’t leave u out in the cold, that try to amend their behaviors (though for show, but still amend nevertheless), that try not to repeat the mental abuse once it’s pointed out to them.

          Do narcs like this exist? Yes, my ex is an example. His abuse consisted of hot and cold behavior, withdrawing, secrecy, future faking, deflecting.

          But he finally admitted that he made a huge mistake and that he betrayed my trust.
          If the narc does any of the above that i described, i cannot tolerate it.

        3. K says:

          Damn, I have been so focused on the narcissist that I haven’t paid much attention to the empath (marginalized again). I didn’t realize that only true empaths could feel other people’s feelings; I thought all empathic people could do that. Time to really hit the books, I am woefully behind.

      3. narc affair says:

        I agree jenna with what you said about bpd being on a spectrum. Ive not been diagnosed with bpd but i do have traits of the disorder. I most definitely am empathetic and some days i wish i wasnt bc its gotten me in trouble. I think borderlines can be empathetic but i cant comment on being true empaths. What makes a true empath? Even a true empath is not perfect were all flawsome as Indy would say. I feel bad when i see borderlines criticized. Any of the cluster b disorders are awful to live with. I know of a few online with bpd and they really struggle in life.

  6. Twilight says:

    I have sat back and watched this play out

    I do believe there is more going on and everyone jumped on the emotional roller coaster


    What are you trying to prove?

    1. Twilight, there is absolutely no use in even going to battle with this particular individual. It all started with a nice compliment from another reader towards my physical appearance. After that there has been a non- stop constant attack from this person, such as the photos I post are airbrushed, all you can see are my breast, so Guess what, I gave her a taste of her own medicine, and it obviously tasted bad. Only problem is, it has not effected me. “If it doesn’t apply, let it fly”.This persons excuse was “you were mean to readers in the past, and it hurt my feelings”. It was the past, and I have since apologized to the person I attacked. I took your advice, admitted I was wrong, and I have moved on. I find it funny how no one acknowledges the behavior this person put out towards me, but then again I don’t really care. I’ve said it once, and i’ll say it again, I am here for one person, and one person only, HG Tudor. At the end of the day it is jealously; a narcissistic trait, and insercurites on their part.

      1. Twilight says:


        I appreciate your gesture to speak with HG, I have to decline. There are many here that can not afford to speak with him and need his advice.
        If I may make two suggestion

        If another could step in my place and be able to get the answers they so desperately need from HG


        You use it and speak with him, I know he has helped you out

        Don’t worry about me, I will be fine. I always find my way out of the ocean

        I really do appreciate your gesture, I just can’t accept knowing what I know.

    2. You have a special gift, and I can’t quite figure out what it is. After all that you’ve been through, Twilight you managed to turn out a kind hearted person. You put me in my place, and I obeyed your wishes. I had lashed out at, RS, and the way you worded a previous post from the past, caused me to feel remorseful towards my actions.

      1. Twilight says:


        Will you explain what my “gift” is.

      2. HG Tudors # 1 fan says:

        Twilight, of course it is okay. There are people who are in need of, HG Tudor’s help. Pass is it on. Give it to another person who is in need.


        1. Twilight says:


          You have given an amazing gift to someone….

          You offer helped me in many ways

          I do hope you are taking things easy, sometimes not rushing things and letting one feel the emotions can be healing in its self.
          They are real….it is holding on to that which was never meant to be held i to but to feel and move through, to experience yet never to stay holding on to.

          You hold a strength and beauty that is yours

    3. Twilight, I just purchased you a consultation via phone call with, HG. Please speak to him, I am worried about you right now.

      1. Twilight says:


        I appreciate what you are doing and being concerned for me. I am ok, thou.
        I have dealt with this alll my life. I do suspect you know from comments, you just don’t understand, I left it up to HG if he decided to explain publicly, privately or not at all. I only asked him to.
        I showed you another way, you made the choice on which direction you would take. Still rough around the edges, but we all are in some form. Yet this is what makes us unique and also what can be a struggle to understand another’s perspective with out being emotionally compromised.
        Time has a way of showing things.

        Grieving happens in stages, anger is one of them and can come out in ways that can be hurtful to others

        When we are angry one must remember this, and it can be very hard in the moment

    4. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

      No emotional roller coaster over here.

  7. NarcAngel says:

    Dr HQ

    Im with you on the bullshit. There is a shark in the water posing as a dolphin.


    You were right. Time Is such a grass.


    We had a similar problem early on in that we did not understand each others position. We continued over time to read each others posts without comment which I think helped you to see that I did not mean to hurt you, and I observed more about your situation and how you process information so that I could interact with you more effectively in future. When people are honest and want to learn so they can better contribute they will do just that-try. When they do not, they will just arrive banging on a pot and making alot of noise and declarations covering an ulterior motive. Those people have their own issues and may or may not be worth futher interaction. Only time will tell as it did with us. I think it already is, and an apology would be as worthless as that coming from a Narc. What do you say to sticking to those who know us and who we know to be respectful in their interactions with us and let those who continue to play games fall to the wayside? I dont want you to continue to be upset or see you leave the blog.


    1. Jenna says:


      “There is a shark in the water posing as a dolphin.”

      Finally somebody said it. Thank u for ur bluntness.

      Your opinion and advice are of great value to me. I feel warm inside that u don’t want to see me upset. Thank u.

      “…sticking to those who know us and who we know to be respectful in their interactions with us and let those who continue to play games fall to the wayside”

      I will do just that. Excellent advice as always.

      And excellent advice by so many here.

    2. C★ says:

      I agree…. trying to get and waiting for an apology from said person, would be as worthless as coming from a Narc….

    3. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:


      I heart your no bullshit attitude! You have a way of putting things lol… (the shark posing as a dolphin) haha

      I’ve missed you!!! I’ve been cleaning out my closets and …. I still haven’t parted with that red dress 😬


  8. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:


    Lemme break it down for ya lol (I’m saying this in a goofy voice) – she will not validate your feelings or even acknowledge the fact that what she did was disrespectful and tacky. Forget an apology it’s not happening lol. Make a mental note – I always do.


    1. Jenna says:

      Doc, noted.

      Again, thank u for ur bluntness.

    2. narc affair says:

      Jenna…its a process learning to accept that certain people will never apologise and its up to us to let go and move on for our own health and sanity. For years i beat myself up and shed tears over the fact my mother wouldnt acknowledge what she was doing to me or apologise. Then there was the insidious gaslighting she did and still does. Bottom line is i will never hear the words “im sorry” or ” i was wrong”. Instead to live my life and not make myself sick dwelling, hoping and waiting i had to let go and move on. Acceptance is freedom. Accept there will be people that do shitty things, that lifes not fair and agree to make your life a happy one without these apologies ❤

      1. Jenna says:

        Narcaffair, that’s definitely difficult to experience w your mother. I’m so sorry.
        But i like ur attitude. Thank u.

  9. HG Tudors # 1 fan says:

    Sniglet, the Count from Sesame Street does. 1-10

    1. HG Tudors # 1 fan says:

      Moving on now!

      1. Jenna says:

        The suggestion was to APOLOGIZE then move on, not just move on.

        How am i to move on without the apology? But i will.

        Because i need not one, but 14 apologies.

        An apology for each of the following:

        1) suggesting i don’t have ‘brains’

        2) referring to my posts as ‘nonsense’

        3) referring to me as ‘creepy’

        4) referring to me as ignorant

        5) telling me i’m ’embarassing’ myself

        6) assuming i am ‘#jealous’ of u

        7) telling me that i’m ‘humilating’ myself

        8) insulting my looks

        9) denying that u insulted me

        10) not acknowledging my sincere efforts to upload my pic as per ur request

        11) commanding me to have an audio consult w hg (which i’ve already had many)

        12) commanding me to ‘understand’ that you’re his #1 fan because u remember everything he’s said, have read all his books, tune into his live sessions.
        Note: i am not jealous AT ALL just trying to point out that u are manipulating us

        13) telling me to ‘open up my ears and listen’

        14) accepting innocent readers’ verification that you’ve read all his 50+ books when it is CLEAR that u have not

        Pls answer the following questions within 1 hr of posting. Research is not permitted.

        a) name of the ex who began bleeding due to hg

        b) what name did she call him?

        c) where were they at the time?

        d) what did little hg reply to his friend when the friend commented abt uncle peter?

        e) name of hg’s first love

        f) hg believes a co-dependent is actually what?

        g) who in hg’s family is co-dependent? Who is an empath?

        h) what is the scrapbook?

        i) what is the significance of a ‘horse’ sexually?

        j) what r hg’s feelings towards dr. O?

        k) give one example of how hg determines if his potential victim is right for him?

        l) what is the name of the country hg said he will b travelling to in order to seduce one of his victims?

        m) what was the color of that victim’s hair?

        n) hg noticed that she was wearing what?

        o) what comes easily to the narcissist and requires little energy to use?

        p) hg climbed upon a kitchen shelf in order to obtain what?

        q) which family member did he defy regarding the above?

        U will b proven as lying:

        1) if u do not respond within one hr of posting because it may mean u will do research

        2) if u deflect or love bomb or miror hg or another reader’s likes and tastes instead

        3) if u use ad-hominem attack(s) to reply

        4) if u say it is not necessary to prove urself (becoz YES it is necessary. Stop manipulating others in believing a falsehood)

        5) if u ignore

        6) if u claim i am jealous

        7) if u state that u did not see this post and leave questions unanswered

        I’m looking fwd to ur answers.

        1. Kim michaud says:

          Dear Jenna the fact that u can clearly and succinctly remember all of these facts shows to me you are not only intelligent but more than likely are above average in intelligence you remind me of me when I was much younger I had such a strong desire to seek out justice probably in part because of me being a libra and probably in part to the fact ice been treated unjustly my entire life my parents weren’t narcs but they both were abusive and my sister is a full blown narc who tried to kill me twice in childhood somebody told me a long time ago that some people will never give you what you want need or deserve and this is definitely true now that I’m older I realize we have to have emotional intelligence and please I don’t mean this as an insult it goes for every single one of us meaning we all need to let go when we realize somebody doesn’t have our best interests at heart I know this is difficult when your young and energetic and passionate about justice but believe me after a few added decades losing my fiancee to a pulmonary embolism raising a child alone (not the child of the deceased ) who has both bipolar and autism and dealing with a narc it takes the fight out of you and you just have to let things go maybe this is bad advice I don’t know but please believe me when I say it’s not meant to be mean spirited

          1. Jenna says:

            Kim, thank u for the compliment.
            I am so sorry you’ve been thru so much. It makes me sad. But i am sure u r doing a great job raising ur child who is bipolar and has autism. It is definitely not easy.
            I did not take ur comment as mean spirited whatsoever. I will definitely think abt what u said. Thank u.

      2. Jenna says:

        It has been almost 2 hrs since posting. Ur one hr time slot has exceeded. U r proven as lying. Pls apologize to all readers for lying to them.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Do keep in mind that since I have been away from the blog for several hours and there has been a response it may well have been sat in moderation.

          1. Jenna says:

            I checked at 2:19pm est and it was posted.

          2. HG Tudor says:

            You have not understood my point.

          3. Jenna says:

            Noted. Sorry.

            I should not say sorry so much? Sniglet thinks i want to say it all the time. I say it when it’s appropriate. Here, it is appropriate.

      3. Maybe it’s just me but…Oh. My. God.

        Can we stop talking about this?
        Agree to disagree and let’s move on and get back to learning about freeing ourselves from and being weaponised against narcissists.

        1. Jenna says:


          I don’t even think abt ex-narc anymore since i have a new one to deal with and heal frm.

          Fan and sniglet have been rude, condescending, insulting, inappropriate.

          Wendy, it hurts me. It affects my health. I end up shaking, so i need to talk abt it in order for the shaking to end. Everyone is different.

          I need closure on the matter and i’m getting close to that closure. Maybe u don’t need closure on such matters? That’s why u are ‘stronger’wendy.

          I will take others’ advice and try not to let it bother me. But is it my fault that my body starts trembling? It’s involuntary.

          U can always skip it if it’s not ur cup of tea. Don’t read it.

          I have been kind to u in the past, saw ur inner beauty, complimented ur profile pic and i am sad that u are not being sensitive towards my feelings.

          My suggestion to u is not to read the comments. When i get my closure, it will end. That’s what we learn here.

      4. Yolo says:

        The eye..ugh…stop being a mean girl or man in drag. Most people agreed with you and came to your offense when you felt attack for your name.

        Now you are being the mean girl, man, or whatever. It’s cruel and you know exactly who to target. Unfortunately, she gives a flying f**K no one else do. You need to fall back. You might just be a troll which is fine but you are crossing the line by targeting Jenna. Playing on her weakness is just cruel dude.

        I am not jealous, give zero f**ks. I am not infatuated with H.G. If you were on the brink of suicide or death why would you bully another blogger that’s struggling?

      5. narc affair says:

        Jenna…do you seriously know the answers to all those!? Lol wow! Thats impressive 😄 i need to get reading! How many of HG’s books have you read?

        1. Jenna says:

          Narcaffair, r u sure it’s impressive? The answers are actually contained in less than 10 of his books, which is how many i have read.
          However, i read and re-read so i remember various details. In fact, i usually read the book in one sitting the first time, ignoring all my errands because i find them so interesting. I don’t even eat meals while reading because i just cannot leave the laptop or my device. The second or third time i read the book in segments.

        2. Jenna says:

          I feel hg’s books are underpriced eg. $5.99, $6.99 etc. for the amount of information contained therein and for the hrs of dedicated effort he has put into composing them. Even if one buys all of his books, it will not be a significant amount financially for him.

          He is already well off, but i feel like i am taking his resources for free when i engage on the blog, as he has to pay for the blog. I have had 8 audio consults with him. I am not trying to be boastful. I am pointing out that he deserves more than $800 frm me, for the amount that he has helped me regarding my ex. My therapists have charged me much more than he has, and have helped me less regarding my ex.

          He has to pay for this blog. It is evident that it requires much of his time and effort, yet he is gracious enough not to charge membership fees, like other sites do. I feel like i am almost ‘freeloading’ by interacting here. Thus, i encourage anyone w the resources to continue w audio consults. These are my personal feelings only.

          Many of u may not feel this way, or may be set back financially due to narc and other life factors. That is perfectly understandable. Absolutely no judgement here.

          1. Diva says:

            Hey Jenna…….HG should consider giving you a role in Sales and Marketing!!!!!!…….. Diva

          2. Jenna says:

            Diva, narcangel is more deserving of that title. She emailed the dr. Phil show pointing out hg’s growing fame, his 6,000,000 hits, and how it would get great ratings on his show too. Thank u narcangel.

        3. Jenna says:

          And many of u may have already engaged in a dozen or more audio consults. I recognize that.

      6. narc affair says:

        Hi jenna…i agree HG does give a lot of freebies by engaging on here, livestreams, the articles and of course it all goes to build his business/awareness but nevertheless its very appreciated! Ill continue to buy the books and spread his name out there. There really is a wealth of knowledge here and i consider myself lucky to have found it 🙂

  10. paul says:


    Bit of a delay getting back to you…

    OK, so I probably got it right then: from HG’s descriptions of them, I worked out that she’s a Lower-Midrange, Somatic-Victim because, at first, I got the illness stories, soul mate stuff and lots of addiction claims that you say is midrange material. She did repeat many times, she was addicted to me. It was all somatic: my hair, my voice, etc, pathetic really! You say, you’ve only seen these traits in a midranger. Have you been collecting them – can’t have been pleasant?

    1. Diva says:

      Hi Paul……I wouldn’t go as far as saying that I collect them…..I think it’s more that they collect me…….but I am not positive about that either. I only ever had one relationship with an individual that was not a narc and I found them so boring, as nice as they were. I can’t actually state that I found narcs completely unpleasant….(although there is no doubt that they were at times and they are extremely difficult to live with…..but then again life with the normal was not great either….but for different reasons.) The problem is, as well as the horrendous behaviour, I had quite a lot of fun with all of mine……..maybe I like mind games…….maybe I like people that are not straight forward???? Despite saying the above…..I have always escaped from mine…….I do so when the negatives start outweighing the positives…….for me……this will happen sooner with a lesser than any other narc type. I even still have a personal non romantic friend that is a narc…….and I value their friendship despite (now) knowing what they are……they see things differently to us……their input can be invaluable…….they will think of things that would never enter our kinds head. For the same reasons I have worked alongside narcs in the workplace with no bother, I have liked them and they seemed to like me, yet all around me, many other employees could not abide them. I am only just beginning to realise all of this but I do not profess to understand it……….Diva

      1. paul says:

        Curious! I’ve heard ppl say that they are boring. Maybe the one’s you find/ find you, are just very good at ‘mirroring’ and they’ll share your interests and likes – for a while at least?

        Personally, I do prefer ppl who are straightforward; I like to know where they’re coming from. I’m ok with mind-games if they’re benign, flirtatious maybe, but I’ve found that narcs (my ex-narc) use games to get personal info out of you to use as a weapon later on, OR they’ll suddenly turn on you with eyes glaring if you give the wrong reply.

        I’m surprised that you can get away from them so easily when the ‘devaluation’ starts, you’ve obviously got a technique of some sort?

        “…their input can be invaluable…” I imagine so. That’s why I’ve asked HG some questions for his viewpoint regarding narcissism in society. I have the suspicion that there are many more narcs than we imagine, but not pathological narcs as he is but, quasi-narcs (as I’ve termed them). That is, ppl who strongly have the narc traits but also have some empathy. Maybe he has an opinion, he’s willing to share? I await.

        Thank you.

        1. Diva says:

          Hi Paul….I do not have much experience with normals in a romantic sense but certainly the upper mid range types and above are very exciting to a woman…….although I personally do not understand how anyone would put up with a lesser.

          It is so difficult to explain what I mean when I say mind games……I too mean the flirtatious kind but I mean much more than that. The ones I have met have been very intelligent, they think differently to us and in doing so they make us think differently. This was very addictive to me but I am struggling to convey it. I learned so much from one of my ex narcs…….if I asked him a question that he knew the answer to……he would not tell me the answers to my questions……he would give me more questions until I worked it out for myself…..it was like a constant game or battle of wits. There was no doubt I was out witted from the start to the finish but in the process I was better for it…….in some ways!!!!

          I have said previously that I did not get devaluation…….but the more I think about it and read, I have changed my mind…. I did get devaluation but initially I could not see it. When it is all you have ever known I guess it becomes normal…..I didn’t see it as devaluation until very recently.

          Yes I escaped before discard in all cases…..and no it was not easy…..it took years to get to that stage. Being stubborn, defiant and having tremendous willpower helps…….making the decision is the hardest part. Then as I stated previously……I locked myself away and became warden and inmate in my own prison for a long time. I am still there……(on the one occasion I ventured out, I met what transpired to be a mid range narc)……one day I will escape this prison too, but for now, this is the lesser of two evils……….Diva

          1. Windstorm2 says:

            I totally understand what you mean about the mind games. I love that too. I’m sure I’ve met smarter normal men than my narcs, but they didn’t advertise it. The banter is just not the same.

            Maybe it’s the joy narcs feel when “performing” to their audience that makes the difference. I know HG would say it is not “joy”, but they give off a vibe when they’re pulling in positive fuel that comes across to me as a joy/pleasure/satisfaction that I personally just enjoy experiencing with them. As long as they are not being ugly or vindictive and I’m in a good place in my own mind (not needing help or support), I really enjoy sharing this feeling with them.

          2. NarcAngel says:

            Hello Windstorm2

            Re: Conversations and verbal sparring with a Narc.

            I think if you have any game at all you will be forced to up it with a Narc and I admit to enjoying that. It makes me come alive, especially during devaluation (but of course I know what is happening and will use the opportunity to wound as opposed to someone that is unaware). They would likely not admit that we add anything to theirs but Im sure that is one of the reasons they like a juicy, feisty Super Empath-the challenge (paired with the ability to sustain more of their games over a longer period of time). Theyre fun for sport in short bursts but I could never live with one as I think you have found.

            On another note: I laughed when I read in another post that he tossed your kitchen utensils. I cant believe you didnt use that as a reason to stop cooking for him!

          3. Windstorm2 says:

            Ha, ha, NarcAngel! Who said I didn’t! He did all his own cooking the last 15 years we were married.

            Oh I could tell stories of the insanities we can go to in a dysfunctional family! No one ever cleaned anything in the kitchen, no matter how many times I asked for help (6 of us living there). I came home from work one day and found a flower vase with milk in it on the counter. My 16 yr old daughter had eaten cereal out of a vase rather than wash a bowl! I finally told them I would no longer clean anything up in the kitchen except my own mess. If they chose not to clean up their own mess then when it got on my nerves I would just throw the dirty pots/dishes away (kids were 16,17,18,and 19). After I had thrown away (actually hidden) every single pan in the house, my husband just stopped at Walmart and bought new ones.

            After that I tried boxing up all the dishes and glasses and told them until they started to help clean we would only use paper plates and cups. We did that for months and they would not even throw them away. I’d come home every day from work and walk throughout the house with a trash bag picking up all the dirty paper plates and plastic glasses. That wasn’t long before I moved out.

            Initially I left on a trial basis for 3 weeks to see if they would cooperate and help me. In those three weeks the kids all moved out, but our middle son left his chihuahua. When I came back in the house, she had pooped all over the entire floor and on the sofa. My husband had just covered each pile with a piece of paper towel. Almost the entire floor was covered with little white covered mounds. It looked like an aerial view of West Virginia in the wintertime! And of course the rest of the house was a wreck as well. I just go back in the car and headed back to the vacation house and have been here ever since.

          4. NarcAngel says:


            Good for you! You may find this hard to believe, but I am very traditional in some respects such as maintaining the household and preparing meals as long as its not expected. Recently someone asked if when I retire my husband would expect me to “take care of him”. I responded that he is free to EXPECT anything he likes but he could also EXPECT to live alone lol. I would not have the patience you showed in attempting to gain assistance with a husband much less the additional children and I dont know how you did it. The picture of little white mounds all over made me laugh (and to be honest recoil) and shows you to what lengths they will go to assert their superiority. Reminds me of a friends Narc husband. He would take things TO the garbage but not put it in the bag or receptacle-always just next to it. Same with dishes and clothes. She tried as you did and with the same result (2 children in their 20s living at home). It ended when he moved out and in with his new IPPS (who is a clean freak and cooks) without telling her. He just never came home after work one day. He forced sale of the house from under them and one real estate advisor came in, took one look, and said: you have a lot of work to do before turning on his heel and walking out. Never contacted again. He managed to sell privately to someone he knew for a fraction of the houses worth because they woukd not clean or remove anything they did not want.

          5. Windstorm2 says:

            They only do what they want and don’t care about what anyone thinks, that’s for sure. My husband stayed in that house and ended up devaluing it by nearly 50%. I ended up having to sell it at auction and it was a sad, sorry mess.

            He has the ability to just block out what he doesn’t want to think about and pretend it doesn’t exist. He could live in absolute filth with the roof leaking and mold everywhere and just ignore it all like it wasn’t there. Of course when I was there he didn’t ignore anything he felt I ought to be doing or cleaning!

            I don’t know how I would have dealt with it if he had left me and moved in with another woman. I can’t even imagine it. It would have so violated his own mental self-image of aloof, emotionless superiority. I don’t think I’d have gone after him, but I’m certain I would have shot him if he’d ever come back. I might have taken to always carrying a pistol just in case. Lol! I’m very glad God spared me that.

          6. Diva says:

            Hi Windstorm2……..you could well have a point in what you state…..I know what I am trying to say but I can’t always put it into words without sounding crazy!!!!! Diva

          7. Windstorm2 says:

            Ha, ha, ha! I have that problem all the time! I just don’t worry anymore about sounding crazy. I thought I was supporting what you said, but apparently I was off on a tangent!
            I do love your ideas and insights!

          8. Diva says:

            Hi Windstorm…….no…… you were definitely not off on a tangent……I think you did explain partially what I was trying to say…….although I had not thought of it that way myself……..your response was very interesting to me and I need to dissect your comments and Narc Angels further, as although I believe you are right I feel there is still more to it. I like your insights too……we think alike…….outside of the box………..I like that in a person. I will keep thinking about this topic and give you my further crazy thoughts at a later date!!!!!……Diva

          9. paul says:

            Sounds a shame that your romantic liaisons have been mainly with narcs. Perhaps, not much sharing taking place as they don’t have much to give from their side? This “Lonely” posting seems appropriate for me, writing from my abode in this socially inverted little town – see previous comments about it, above. I feel as if I’m adrift in a lifeboat and starting to drink my own urine! I’d move out tomorrow except that I’ve invested a lot of time and money here; and house prices being what they are…etc,.

            I’d go on one of those Dating sites but people on other websites, similar to here, advise against it. Saying, you’ll only attract all sorts of toxic freaks!

            Rock and a hard place.

          10. Diva says:

            Hi Paul….To give my narcs credit where credit is due, I would not be where I am today if I had not met them. They shared their intelligent minds and I soaked up what I was able whilst I had the opportunity. They gave me the confidence to apply myself in ways I would not have done, had I not met them. I achieved things I would not have achieved had I not met them. That is the good side of the narcs that I knew…..however as you know only too well, there are many other sides that are not so pleasant.

            I too live in a place far from where I was born and I do not and will not ever fit in……..but I don’t mind that…….I would be far more concerned if I started “fitting in” here!!!!!

            I am alone in many ways but I am not lonely……I have never met anyone on a dating site either….I would definitely attract the nutters…..but it seems to work for some people. If you do venture on one……I would leave out your thoughts about starting to drink your own urine though……..as comical as it was!!!!!!! Is that what HG meant about “water sports” in that prior article???? Don’t answer that!!!!!!……….Diva

          11. RS says:

            I’d go on one of those Dating sites but people on other websites, similar to here, advise against it. Saying, you’ll only attract all sorts of toxic freaks!

            Rock and a hard place.

            I am in the exact same place. What are we to do?! The men you meet other places are just as bad. You have a 50/50 chance of running into one of their kind. We are all doomed!!! Just kidding, I don’t really care anymore.

          12. Star says:

            This is true RS. There are some really creepy, narcissistic types on dating sites.. I have encountered a few lol. But I will say this, I can suss them out now. Thanks to this blog, life experience etc I feel kinda weaponized. I can even laugh sometimes and be amused for what it is. Even enjoy the experience sometimes.It dosent hurt anymore, I’m not powerless.I don’t fall for it nor get emotionally attached.And I do feel that when I am finally in the healed place I’m supposed to be the right person will come along one way or another ( Maybe?)

          13. Diva says:

            Hi Star……I can suss them out……some sooner than later (especially if they are a lesser)……however…….my downfall is, by the time I have sussed them out, I have already been reeled in and I am on the end of a barbed hook!!!!!!! I need to find a way of sussing them out BEFORE I get addicted!!!!!!!……….Diva

          14. Windstorm2 says:

            I was thinking something similar. I can suss them out, too, but getting rid of them is the problem. I never wanted to risk drawing the attention of one who just won’t go away – who ends up stalking and harassing. And since narcs have always run to me like ants to a picnic, it never seemed worth the risk. I don’t like to be hurtful or to say no, both of which would be repeatedly necessary and still might not work!

          15. Diva says:

            Hi Windstorm2…..”And since narcs have always run to me like ants to a picnic, it never seemed worth the risk.”

            That one made me laugh for sure!!!!! It’s not worth the risk for me, that is all I know. I am quite happy in my prison playing warden and inmate on my own……now where did I put those handcuffs!!!!!…………Diva

          16. RS says:

            I am quite happy in my prison playing warden and inmate on my own……now where did I put those handcuffs!!!!!…………Diva

            Hahahahaha!!! Thanks for the laugh! (I love handcuffs!) 😈

          17. paul says:

            Star & RS or anyone 👍
            Dating sites: My first thoughts about these sites was, by using them, it’s somehow an admission of personal defeat; that I’m prostituting myself, but then…it’s the 21st C now!

            After my ‘encounter with a narc (there’ve been others I didn’t realise?), I wonder how many f****d up ppl there are out there – RS thinks it’s 50:50! Not good odds. Another concern is that it was soon apparent she (the ex-narc) was ‘not good in the head,’ but then, what if I meet a smart one who doesn’t strongly have the victim traits or can hide them well? Do most of them (on a first date) come out with Red Flags flapping wildly, expecting that the ‘potential’ victim won’t spot them? Any further thoughts?

          18. RS says:

            I can spot them now too on those sites. It makes me laugh when you see how many of them are a widower. The love of their life passed away and they are looking, hope upon hope, to find another love of their life. In all of my days I have never met one widower that was my age and wanting to date. I am sure there are some but I think this is there special line. Also, the ones who live across the country or overseas and want a relationship. . . what?! I don’t even want to date someone who lives more than 50 miles away. I’d hardly ever get to see them. The biggest reason I don’t get those sites is that most men want someone 10 to 20 years younger than they are, and they GET them. I just want someone my own age. Maybe one or two years younger or older. I don’t want someone that is 70 and needs someone to take care of them. No thank you! I will just have to be content to stay single. I’m working on that.

      2. narc affair says:

        Hi windstorm…i know what you mean about narcs seeming like they feel joy from positive fuel and even negative but a more smug joy. I think its more a rush they feel like being boosted higher. Ive given my narc a lot of positive fuel bc i enjoy seeing him happy and feel good but when he starts to devalue me i take away like he would to me. Its not meant to be vindictive but i cant give my good side to someone whose not respecting my feelings nor should i. I enjoy making him feel good bc hes done that for me but its got to go both ways or i no longer will give him any fuel but ill disengage. My self worth us important and im taking it back. This is where narcissism has taught and is teaching my greatest life lesson…that i do matter and i need to protect me.

        1. Windstorm2 says:

          Narc Affair
          Absolutely, I agree with you. I pull away and shut off all fuel when he does anything I consider hurtful. There has to be a “quid pro quo” in every relationship. Luckily mine is a lawyer and understands that. Lol!

      3. narc affair says:

        Hi paul…ive never been on a dating site but i think the key words here are “first date”. It takes a few dates to see the red flags and it takes time to see a who someone really is. A narcissist will try to rush things along and lovebomb but to fully protect yourself you have to go into every relationship with your head out of the clouds and slowwww it down. Keep a clear head and give it time to see those red flags.

    2. Diva says:

      Hi Paul…….I feel I should mention, as you referred to this topic in your post……there are many here addicted to HGs voice. I am pretty sure that it won’t have any effect on you……but you never know!!!!!! Diva

      1. paul says:

        I’ve heard that voice before. I wouldn’t want to share “a nice bottle of chianti” – if you know what I mean?

        1. Diva says:

          Hi Paul……you must be a mind reader…….I know exactly who you mean……I really struggle listening to HG……I find myself holding my breath and have to consciously remind myself to breathe…….Diva

          1. RS says:

            I really struggle listening to HG……I find myself holding my breath and have to consciously remind myself to breathe……

            I think HG practices to make his voice sound like that. He does it on purpose to gain control. 😉 It works!

    3. HG Tudors # 1 fan says:

      Take a deep breath.

  11. C★ says:

    ppl can be cruel when they displace sadness for anger. i am by no means justifying, just stating a fact and sometimes I wonder if that is why Narcs do what they do…. they have a very deep buried sadness (the creature) that is expressed indirectly as anger, by being hurtful and it becomes pathological… just like our “Hurt God”…

    1. Jenna says:

      “…displacing sadness for anger…”

      Very good point.

      I myself felt very sad and therefore very angry, but have kept myself frm expressing the anger. I have expressed sadness and hurt, and outlined the reasons for my feelings in detail, but i have not expressed the anger.

      But i wonder sometimes, if i should meet anger with retaliatory anger. Because frankly, that would feel good.

      1. C★ says:

        You do not need anyone’s permission, to do whatever makes YOU feel best! I say, let it rip!

  12. Kim michaud says:

    Jenna just returned home and saw this I think I now have an idea what post this happened in but I did not continue to follow that post so I will now go back and read it I can say for myself I came on this site because hgs YouTube channel saved my life my interest in being here is to see how he thinks and in turn apply it to my ex narc and see how he thinks I feel like the people on this sites looks are completely and totally irreverent only reason I posted my picture is because I intended to do it from the beginning I even use my real name on here I also use my real name and photograph when I comment on YouTube though I recently had to remove my real name from YouTube because of my narc I certainly hope nobody was insulting your looks and if they did please realize this says a lot about who they are as a person and how insecure they really are inside I recently had a woman on Facebook I didn’t even know do this to me she took two unflattering pictures of me off my page and posted them in a group saying I’m a transsexuals hermaphrodite

    1. Kim michaud says:

      I meant to say I always intended to post my picture but did so only recently because I figured out finally how to do it

    2. Windstorm2 says:

      That is horrible, Kim. But unfortunately fits in with my opinion of FB. I have never understood why people are mean to one another. It is almost never truthful. I figure like you said it speaks to the insecurity/ imbalance of the person making the cruel remark.

    3. Jenna says:

      Kim, thank u. U definitely do not look like a ‘transexual hermaphrodite.’ I do not know why pple insult others in this manner, though ur comment is helping me understand. U r very beautiful.

      1. Kim michaud says:

        Thanks Jenna

      2. HG Tudors # 1 fan says:

        Nothing wrong with transsexuals, in fact they look better then most women, but that’s my opinion.

        1. kimmichaud1 says:

          I happen to agree with you on that transexuals looking better than real woman which is why when the woman posted that about me I said thank you I’ll take that as a compliment

    4. K says:

      She was probably a narcissist! Fuel!

    5. Yolo says:


      People can be so mean. I am happy to see you made it to the blog. I see you comment on most of HG YouTube videos as you see there’s more interacting and sharing on the blog.

      Welcome 😊😊

      1. Kim michaud says:

        Thank u Yolo glad to be here

  13. Jenna says:

    The prescursor to these 3 posts is in moderation. Hence, it may sound like i’m jumping into an irrelevant topic but i had began with a relevant intro, namely that i am feeling ‘lonely’ on this blog due to the actions of certain 5 pple.

    1. K says:

      Don’t leave. I like you and I read all your comments.

      1. Jenna says:

        K, i like u too.
        I don’t wish to leave because i like it here, but i am so hurt that i must consider it.

        I want the four pple who liked her post where she insults my looks to come forward.
        That way, i will not waste my time defending them in the future, and i won’t be suspecting others.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          I suspect they will not do so Jenna and therefore you are better applying your energies to regard that matter in perspective.

          1. Jenna says:

            Ty for your advice.

      2. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:


        Don’t leave. Not everyone will like you and understand you. I go through this on a daily basis lol. The comment thrown at you happens to be false and quite honestly it was a shallow and basic insult.

        The comment made to you is a reflection on the individual who made the comment.

        1. Jenna says:

          Thank u doc.

      3. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

        General public statement:

        I would also like to mention everyone grieves differently and it is no ones place to tell someone how they should grieve.

        General public statement:

        I believe it is unnecessarily nasty and shallow to throw blows at someone’s age or appearance.

        1. Jenna says:

          Doc, i respect u. Your statement is correct but i would like to add to public statement num 1.

          Though everyone grieves differently, there are 5 stages of grieving that are cycled, some missed, some repeated, and some not followed in the chronological order outlined by psychologists.

    2. Jenna says:

      It has now been posted.

      1. narc affair says:

        Jenna…i know which post youre referring to and for the record i didnt like it bc i took it as a covert insult that you changed your profile pic to that of a rose frkm that of your face pic. If im wrong i apologize but that was my take on it. That being said i thought your reply was a good one. Its better to ignore this bc its fuel if it was intended that way. We learn that here that reacting is fuel.
        Its so not worth you being distraught over.

        1. Jenna says:

          Narcaffair, thank u. U need not apologize. It was a blatant covert insult.

      2. K says:

        Please, take HG and Kimi’s advice. One of the reasons this blog is so good is because of the different perspectives of the people that post here. And I really appreciate your perspective.

        1. Jenna says:

          Thank u K. I have been diagnosed w ptsd frm childhood trauma. Matters like this provoke the ptsd symptoms. So it’s difficult for me to forget it, but i am trying.

      3. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

        It was an insult. No one here is an idiot.

      4. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

        It was an attack and an insult – let’s not play Mickey Mouse games lol.

        This isn’t a matter of perspective.

        I have no patience for bullshit.

      5. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

        The classy and intelligent thing would be to apologize for the obvious nasty shallow attack …

        But I wouldn’t hold my breathe.

        Yeah I said it.

      6. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

        I’m not here to entertain these bullshit games.

        Admit when your wrong and then move on.


        1. Jenna says:

          To all readers,

          The above series of comments frm dr. Hq was not meant towards me, just in case there’s any confusion.
          Doc hit the reply button under my comment, so it is coming in the inbox as a reply to me, but it is not intended for me. Just wanted to clarify in case it is not clear.

      7. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:


      8. Kimi says:

        Dr HQ,

        I love your blunt, call-it-as-I-see-it responses! You’re spot on here. I could learn a lot from you!

        1. Jenna says:

          Agreed. I’d like to be more blunt too. I am progressing. I can tolerate up to a certain point but that point is after much time. I should be blunt sooner.

      9. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

        kimi – you are hilarious

        I honestly can’t tolerate bullshit anymore…

        we are on an anonymous forum if you cant be real here you have serious issues lol!

    3. Kimi says:


      Take HG’s advice and go “No Contact” with this person, delete her from your world and don’t read the offending posts. NC works with both Narcs and Non-Narcs, alike. Take control and restore your own inner peace!

    4. Star says:

      Hi Jenna, where is this post you speak of? I can’t seem to find it.

      1. Jenna says:

        Star, i was reluctant to post the article due to the reasons i outlined above. But since sniglet already posted it above, i will do so again:


        Btw, where did the beautiful profile pic of yourself go? I love ur beautiful red hair. I like this pic also though.

        1. Star says:

          Hi Jenna:) oh ok, I see. I do want to say that the picture you had of yourself was beautiful , but most importantly you seem to have a beautiful heart and soul. The essence of a person is what truly makes beauty. Physical looks fade, the body gets old, but a good person never gets ugly. Thank u for the compliment:) Originally I had my picture up because I felt that I had nothing to hide and I liked seeing others faces to their comments. But decided that I wanted to maintain my privacy for a variety of reasons. Please don’t feel bad. Just because something negative or derogatory is said, dosent make it true:)

          1. Jenna says:

            Star, thank u for the compliment. I can understand u wanting to revert to anonymity, as i did the same. I appreciate ur advice to me as well.

  14. Jenna says:

    Actually, would those 4 pple who liked her post insulting my looks pls come fwd? I would like to know who u are. Because i have been kind to everyone here, unless someone insults another using ad hominem attacks, compares pple’s attractiveness, or i see blatant manipulation ie. lying. Then only do i point it out because i believe in equality. Pls let me know who u are.
    Thank u.

    1. Kim Michaud says:

      could u reference the post you are referring to I would like to see this for myself

      1. Jenna says:

        Hello kim,

        I am pleased to meet u. I am sorry abt ur entanglement w ur narcissist. I have read one of ur posts, but i will read more in the future since u took the time to reach out to me, and i would like to provide u w comfort. Pls give me some time though, as i am currently distraught w the occurrences that i have posted about.

        I would like to honour ur request, but i am relectant to give the name of the relevant article for several reasons.

      2. Jenna says:

        Following are the reasons why i am reluctant to give the name of the article.

        1) contained therein are manipulations that pple unfortunately have not been able to see, and i fear u may fall for the same manipulations

        2) example: when i point out the manipulation to the individual, instead of adressing the topic, she deflects and either

        a) insults me via add hominem attacks, or

        b) boasts abt having had consults w hg, or

        c) commands me to ‘understand’ that she is the only one who remembers and reads everything hg has written and podcasts (a lie evident frm a comment in another article, where she clearly did not know abt the contents and relevance of his therapy). Readers are confirming her efforts of reading all of his 50+ books, not realizing that she is lying. It hurts me to see them being manipulated.

        d) commands me to similarly have consults w hg (i have already had 7 audio consults), or

        e) ensures that i cannot retaliate by telling other readers about a supposed (i have reasons for believing ‘supposed’) ill family member, thereby shutting my freedom of speech

        She does the above instead of addressing my comment to her.

      3. Jenna says:

        There are 2 sentences that pple have not picked up on that indicate strongly that she is not affected by the ill family member as she claims to be, or that she may even be lying abt it to gain sympathy and divert the topic.

        She actually degraded, and caused more pain to that family member, evident in 2 different comments, not realizing that i would pick up on it, and thereby i question the validity of the illness.

        Her behavior, comments, tone, do not align w somebody who is grief stricken.

        Pple may disagree w me, buying into her pity play, but my background is in behavioural sciences, and this is my conclusion.

        She may reply by telling someone else how difficult a time she is going through, or that i am “#jealous” as she did in the past, but the tell tale signs have already been posted.

      4. Jenna says:

        I was not affected greatly by it, until she insulted my profile picture, which i took great pains to upload as per her request. Now, i feel greatly affected.

        Just for the record, i am NOT at all, in NO WAY, NEVER ONCE have been, jealous of her looks as she states. I am confident abt my looks.

        I was just extremely hurt that she could stoop to the level of insulting appearances. But she has done so in the past w others, so i should not have been surprised.

      5. Jenna says:

        I am commenting in segments because if there is a portion that HG feels needs to be placed in moderation, then at least some comments will be posted.

    2. Sniglet says:

      Jenna – my profile picture is prettier than yours.

      1. Jenna says:

        Sniglet, i have been kind to u after my apolgy for assuming u r male. Why r u again comparing ‘prettiness’ of readers? It hurts pple.
        Anyways, thank u for coming forward. 1 down, 3 to go.

      2. Jenna says:

        Sniglet, ur profile pic may indeed be prettier than mine, as u stated. But u have not posted it, so we do not know. It is ur opinion.

        However, again u are subconsciously promoting competition. U are missing my point.

        If u do post it, i will be happy to see ur pretty face.

      3. Sniglet says:

        I don’t know what you are talking about ‘coming forward’. Who insulted your picture of a rose and who the fuck counts ‘likes’? My ‘like’ functionality doesn’t even work. You’re derailed!

        1. Jenna says:

          Sniglet, pls control ur anger. I count likes. Just because u don’t, doesn’t mean everyone will be the same now does it?
          Name calling doesn’t suit u my friend.

        2. Jenna says:

          Sniglet, you must have missed it above. Copied and pasted frm above, directed at the particular individual:

          “You stated ‘thank god for pretty pictures of roses’ after i had replaced my profile picture w the picture of the rose.

          U had seen my profile pic the day prior, when it was up, because u replied to one of my comments that day using deflection. U saw a) my profile pic, b) the red rose the next day.

          Pls do not deny this blatant back handed compliment, which is actually an insult.

          I uploaded my pic temporarily so u can see me, in order to honour your request, though i wanted to remain anonymous due to fear that ex’s niss may recognize me. I had to take an anti-anxiety pill after uploading due to my fear. Instead of acknowledging my efforts towards u, u made the above comment. I was extremely hurt.”

          To address ur other comment:
          “My ‘like’ functionality doesn’t even work. You’re derailed!”

          How would i know that your like functionality doesn’t work sniglet? I would appreciate it if u refrain frm name calling. Thank you.

      4. Sniglet says:


        You can stop apologising to me now. Three times is enough. Thanks for realizing your false premises and conclusions.

        Okay, fine, one more apology won’t kill me. Go on, you know you want to! ~

        1. Jenna says:

          Sniglet, i have apologized to u once, not 3x. Are you reading words that r not present ie. delusions?

          Also, i didn’t point it out b4 but i will now.

          Ur comment “jenna – my profile picture is prettier than urs”

          … is rude, cruel, mean, inappropriate. Pls learn how to conduct urself.

          Goodbye sniglet and good luck in life. U r in my prayers.

        2. Jenna says:

          Sniglet, one more thing. U stated:

          “Go on, you know you want to! ~”

          For the record, i DO NOT want to. I repeat in case you will again read words that are not present: I DO NOT WANT TO. You are not worth my efforts.

          Take care.

  15. Jenna says:

    If i am out of line, i will consider leaving the blog, though i like it here.

    Some of u (4 pple) supported her insult to my looks – perhaps the same pple who i defended, and i had stated are beautiful and should not be compared to anybody else.

    Does it mean we as a human race do not support one who supports you for equality? Does it mean we do not reciprocate one who defends you for a good cause?

    I don’t know what to believe anymore.

    1. Diva says:

      Jenna……I can’t find any post whereby anyone insulted your looks….it saddens me if what you say is true…..please do not leave the blog……I like reading your posts. I have already posted, as many others did, that you are beautiful……..and if your photo is getting insults……there is definitely no way I am posting mine……well not without some major air brushing and feature changes!!!!!!!! I am not saying any more at this point because I am conscious of the fact that I haven’t read the post you refer too, but if I find it I may well comment further………….Diva

      1. Jenna says:

        Thank u diva. U r beautiful on the inside, which will automatically make u beautiful on the outside, no airbrushing required.

        1. Diva says:

          Hi Jenna……”U r beautiful on the inside, which will automatically make u beautiful on the outside”………..that explains to me why so many of us on here commented on your beautiful photo in the first instance……and I see real beauty in yours.

          Don’t let anyone taint or sully that beauty Jenna……..many will try either because they don’t have it, or they don’t understand it……..you need to stay here, as unfortunately that beauty has and will continue to cause you problems…..and you need to find ways to deflect and avoid the “attention” that seems to come your way……..HG will help you but he cannot do so if you are not here………Diva

          1. Jenna says:


            That was very sweet. Thank u.

            Yes, it does cause prblms for me.

            But every time i open up this page, i can feel panic striking. It is affecting my personal life as i am becoming hyper-sensitive w my partner.

            I want to stay here. But i don’t know how to rid myself of the oncoming panic, other than perhaps eventually leave. Or maybe i will just read and not comment. I don’t know.

            Thank u for ur suggestion. I will strongly consider it and try to fight my panic.

          2. Diva says:

            Jenna…..yes please try……I would guess that you have more to lose by leaving than staying (that probably applies to many of us!!!!). I don’t mean to make light of your panic attacks, but it would appear from the comments, that there are many of us watching out for you on here, that have your back…..but whatever you decide…..I wish you well…..Diva

          3. Jenna says:

            Thx diva. I appreciate so many of u supporting me. I may in fact stay, but not entirely sure(?). It felt like a heavy burden released when i expressed my feelings here.

        1. Jenna says:

          Sniglet, i’ve already apologized to u for assuming u r male. It is because you were comparing who is presttiest on this site, the way u describled Love’s appearance as ‘fiery’ and ‘kinky.’ Love playfully responded by offering to pass u her number. U did not state u r heterosexual and female. Love is heterosexual. Then u again described who is prettier in said article. Pls note: i am not jealous, but i stated that everyone who has put up their profile picture is beautiful, and to pls not subconsciously promote competition, as that was sadly evident in ‘i’m the real genius’ with many hurt feelings. I wanted to avoid that.

          After my apology, u stopped replying to me. I asked u if wordpress is giving u that msg, and u did not answer, yet u continued to comment in said article to others. Was my apology not enough for u? It was an honest mistake and i was very friendly with u afterwards.

          Anyways, thank u for posting the link to the article. I think i have 1 of my 4 answers.

  16. Jenna says:

    I would not have honored the request to upload my profile pic by said individual if i knew she would insult my looks. I thought nobody on this blog can stoop to such a low level, being supposedly empathic.
    I am confident abt my looks and was surprised by the insult. But yet, the fact that she can go to that level has made me doubt goodness.

    1. Windstorm2 says:

      Never doubt goodness. It bothers me to see you so upset. I have no idea what was said or which article it was under, but it’s best to just ignore negative comments if possible. Like you said you are confident in your looks and there is never any telling why a person makes a negative comment. It often has more to do with them and their state of mind than it does whatever they were talking about. Sending you positive energy! ⚡️⚡️⚡️❤️

    2. Kimi says:

      Dear Jenna,

      Don’t doubt goodness, do doubt certain people. Not everyone is worthy of your love and nurturing so be selective. Not everyone here is an Empath, although those who are are often clearly evident. Hoping you find balance in peace and love!

      1. Jenna says:

        Kimi, thank u. I am pleased to meet u.

    3. narc affair says:

      Hi jenna…i was watching a favorite movie of mine tonight called “the outsiders” and ill be using this movie in my written piece but i wanted to skip to the end where two close friends who have had a hard upbringing and have been judged all their lives are talking. The one is badly burned and dying. He says to his friend before his last breath “stay gold”. These words are based on the robert frost poem “nothing gold can stay”. Youll have people or situations like narcissistic abuse that will kick you down in life but stay true to your goodness and purity bc thats a sacred gift and many will have you believe its a weakness. Dont let bad things in life tarnish your gold. Youre a good hearted person and good does exist as long as we never let bad tarnish it. Its so easy to become cynical and judgemental in life based on our experiences. Stay gold and true to the good person you are and there is a lot of good in this world. Hope this isnt too sappy but your post really got me thinking about this 💓

      1. Jenna says:

        Narcaffair, thank u for the sincere compliments. Yes i do doubt goodness now. Maybe i should not, but i feel so hurt – hurt frm the same pple that i’ve defended in the past. I will write abt it in more detail in a separate post. Thank u.

  17. Jenna says:

    It is possible that some of u may have harsh words for me, but i pls request u to be a little gentle, as my mental condition is very poor rn. Remember, i care for all the above pple very much. Defending pple that i care abt is what landed me in trouble to begin with. Thank u again for reading.

  18. Jenna says:

    I am in a lonely state right now. I cannot focus on anything. It has nothing to do w ex narc. I am just extremely sensitive and i suffer panic attacks when pple direct ad-hominem attacks towards me.

    I am in the middle of a panic attack that began a few hrs ago – trouble breathing, nausea, headache, trembling, speaking in a muted tone w quivering voice, heaviness in chest which leads to trouble walking. I am unable to interact in a functional manner w family. I took 2 anti-anxiety pills, two tylenol, and 1/2 anti-nausea pill.

    The pain is unbearable. When will it stop? When will my panic attacks stop? I have had therapy which teaches me how to face them, but once the panic strikes, the methods of sensory stimulation etc. are barely effective. These panic attacks and associated symptoms can last for up to one week, when i become completely non-functional.

    I had lost all hope in goodness. I wanted to leave the blog because i have been hurt by ‘certain’ pple here more than ex-narc has ever hurt me in 3.5 yrs. But how can i leave my 2nd home? I am so very attached to many truly sincere pple here.

    Reading all the above comments leaves me saddened for everything that you kind beautiful pple have gone thru. I consider myself blessed that ex-narc never physically abused me, and i never faced a true devaluation.

    We do not have to agree on everything. It is healthy to agree to disagree. But when the reader insults my looks, my ‘brains’, engages in false assumptions, tells me i’m embarassing myself, calls my actions ‘creepy’ when all i was trying to do was protect others, says i am ’embarrassing, humiliating’, telling others to ignore my ‘nonsense, ignorance’ etc. it really hurts.

    That individual is not here rn.

    I try to defend pple when i see unfairness taking place against them. I also tell the truth when i see pple being manipulated. I believe in equality for all. But those same ’empaths’ i have defended have turned against me, being influenced by my smearing by said individual.

    Pls know that i am here for all of u. Once my panic attack subsides, i will b up and running and i can offer more support than i am offering right now.

    But when will it subside? Hopefully not after an entire week this time. During panic mode, my current partner (non-narc) does much for me – washing dishes, giving me dinner etc. He has improved alot in his behavior in the last few wks because he finally started therapy, after rejecting the idea for so long.

    I am very appreciative of that. He is a physician and has such a busy schedule, but still finds time to care for me (he didn’t b4).

    Being on this blog for one yr now, i hope i can rise above this. I have to find my inner strength. Right now i have none, zero.

    Thank u for listening. I aporeciate ur time.

    1. Windstorm2 says:

      I have shared previously that I have suffered years from panic attacks. I know how horrible they can be. Try to go outside and feel the air and ground. Remember it will end.

      People make and like snarky comments. Let it run off you like water off a ducks back. It is meaningless. Other people’s rudeness (intentional or thoughtless) has nothing really to do with you. You are a kind, caring, beautiful person. Life is full of hurtful rudeness even from those who love and care about us. Just let it flow over and past you.

      The likes may not even have had anything to do with insulting you. People may have taken her comment just for itself and they love beautiful pics of roses, too. And you did have a beautiful pic of a rose. It’s all too easy to see meaning where there really was none. I’ll keep sending you love and positive energy.

      1. My mothers favorite flower was a red rose.

        1. Jenna says:

          You stated ‘thank god for pretty pictures of roses’ after i had replaced my profile picture w the picture of the rose.

          U had seen my profile pic the day prior, when it was up, because u replied to one of my comments that day using deflection. U saw a) my profile pic, b) the red rose the next day.

          Pls do not deny this blatant back handed compliment, which is actually an insult.

          I uploaded my pic temporarily so u can see me, in order to honour your request, though i wanted to remain anonymous due to fear that ex’s niss may recognize me. I had to take an anti-anxiety pill after uploading due to my fear. Instead of acknowledging my efforts towards u, u made the above comment. I was extremely hurt.

          U have also said that i am “#jealous” of u. I can assure you with 110% certainty that i am not.

      2. Jenna says:

        Windstorm, i am sorry u suffered frm panic attacks. They are unbearable, especially the labored breathing. I hope u no longer suffer frm them. Thank you for your comment.

    2. narc affair says:

      Hi jenna…im so sorry you feel hurt. Panic attacks suck. Ive never had one that bad but that must be scary. You cant control what others say and do and we learn this about…narcissists as well as anyone. You are in control of your thought processes which will affect your mood and panic attack. Think positive good thoughts about yourself bc theres many. You are one of the sweetest people and i seen your profile pic and you are gorgeous!
      There will be people who may not like you and that happens to everyone. Thats their opinion of you and what matters is how you feel ablut yourself 💓 dont you dare leave!

      1. Jenna says:

        Narcaffair, thank you.

    3. Yolo says:


      I am disheartened to read you feel this way. I must have missed a few comments. I admit I pleaded with you to not allow the knowledge you obtain here to not be in vain.

      In addition, I praised your courage to post a normal pic without make up and your natural beauty.

      Most narcs may not apply the savage malignant behaviour it doesn’t matter if the manipulation and intent to commit fraud is there future faking victim. We build them up to ensure their next victim. We don’t deserve depression and anxiety. They are more resilient and it passes through once new fuel is obtained.

      Love yourself and for now screw everyone else that’s in opposition towards you. Especially, on social media and blogs. Spread your love with those that celebrates you. Give zero tolerance to others.

      1. Jenna says:

        Yolo, thank u. I especially like ur last paragraph.

  19. RS says:

    What happened to you at age 4? I must have missed your story.

    1. Twilight says:


      I am assuming you are speaking to me,

      I have never told my story only bits and pieces, and it was before you came here.
      Short version I was 4 molested repeatedly, then in my mind at that age abandoned by both my parents to be raised by my Grandparents.

      1. RS says:

        I am so sorry that happened to you. I just want to cry. A four year old child believes everything their parents tell them and trusts everyone. I just don’t understand how an adult can ruin a sweet, trusting soul like they do. It scars us for life. Did you like/love your grandparents?

      2. Jenna says:

        Twilight, i feel like crying. You have been through excessive trauma. But i can see that u are trying to heal frm it. I am sending u prayers.

      3. After everything you have been through Twilight, you sure turned out to be a beautiful soul inside, and out. Your strenth and courage empowers me to be a better person. I have learned so much from you. One thing I’ve learned from you Twilight, is to practice kindness, as well as, be a little more empathtic towards others feelings. I tend to lash out when i see others being attacked, due to the powerless feeling i felt as a child when i was being abused, and mistreated. ‘If it doesn’t apply, let it fly” Shrug it off and move forward. My actions towards someones opinion of me is none of my business. The opinion of others, is none of our business.

        1. Jenna says:

          You do not lash out when you see others being attacked. You attack others who make honest mistakes and who try to find equality for all.

      4. Sometimes to hurt is not that bad. Sometimes the hurt is meant to heal you, to show you a new perspective, to remind you of your light, and divinity. Sometimes you just have to feel: in order to process, in order to rasise your vibration. Remenber that you are not alone. The most isolated hermit does not exist in a vacuum. None of us get to do this life alone, we are in this together. It is only through connection that we will ascend.

        May we all know the pain of to much tenderness,and never be separated from the Great Cause of our joy.

      5. narc affair says:

        Twilight…im so sorry. I was molested too but only once. It really damages a person. The fact your parents abandoned you is devastating. Sending you (((hugs))) you are a strong person with a beautiful soul 💓

        1. Jenna says:

          Twilight has overcome so much and is indeed a v beautiful person.

          Narcaffair, i’m sorry to hear u were molested. I feel like crying again.

      6. Twilight, I totally agree with you, in regards to HG being the only one that would speak the truth to help set us free. I sense you are feeling really down at the moment, so am I. You are not alone. That took a lot of courage to come forth with your story. You are a true empath to the purest form. You are the blogs voice of reason. Twilight, would you allow me to buy you a consultation via phone call to speak with, HG?

      7. Diva says:

        Hi Twilight…..it is not often that I am stuck for words……but I am…..after reading your post to RS, the more I think about it, the more anything I write, appears so shallow and insincere……although that is not my intention……far from it. Sometimes words can never be enough, as the person that you really need to hear them from, is not the one saying them. So if you were here now……..I would give you a hug and the tears would flow……mine too…..even though I never cry……..and I would not have to say a word……nor you………Diva

      8. Bliss says:

        Breaks my heart reading all your experiences here. But am glad people do share. There’s this culture of not sharing that does the greatest damage to people targeted by narcissist and narcissist can keep doing what they do because not many share and people are actually adviced not to care! I have children and perhaps it just makes my heart break how they suffer so much in the hands of narcs. Hopefully we are all a drop in the ocean that will eventually create the ripple, making a difference to those who need it with the knowledge we’ve gained here.

        1. RS says:

          YES. . . a thousand times. . . YES!

      9. NarcAngel says:


        I have read previously your bits and pieces and Im sorry for what you endured. That you have remained empathic and retained a sense of humour and adventure in nature and about life is all the more remarkable. I am heartened to read that your experiences have not deterred you from cautiously exploring joy in new relationships and I wish you the very best in uncovering what this new one has to bring to you.


  20. Lou says:

    My es N told me he was a lonely bear; that he enjoyed being in his cave and read. I found that very romantic at the time (rollng eyes up),
    My younger sister once told me I was a lonely soul. I do tend to isolate myself (more in the past) and I think it is a defense mechanism. Having had weak boundaries, I feel free and peaceful when I am alone. I get more bored when being with others than when by myself. Being alone gave me the time to concentrate in the issues I was interested in. However, it is true that a part of me did want to find that soulmate to keep me the perfect company. And that is why I gues I found the bear so romantic.

    1. Windstorm2 says:

      I’ve heard narcs refer to themselves as bears – alone, but not lonely. Maybe more self sufficient and content on their own.
      I am like you with weak boundaries and always much happier on my own than with others. True we can do more what we want to do, but also we don’t have to be constantly on guard.
      I’d have liked a soul mate, too, but a part of me wonders if they’re really real. If some do exist out there, i imagine they’re very rare – like finding a meteorite amoung the tons and tons of earth rocks.

      1. Lou says:

        Hi Windstorm2,

        Yes, I used to let people’s comments get to me much more in the past, and that is why I found loneliness more comfortable. I do not let that happen anymore. I am not totally immune to stupid or hurtful comments, but I have done a lot of progress.

        I am skeptical about soulmates too. I find the concept appealing but I think it is just a comforting idea humans have created and kept through time because it gives hope. But, what do I know? It is like god’s existence, or the concept of reincarnation… I am skeptical about them all but, who am I to know? I know I cannot have the answer, it is very subjective, a matter of faith, of choosing to believe in it or not. It is a matter of how you choose to interprete your experiences in life too. So, I am skeptical but keep an open mind. And I LOVE talking with people that are certain about any of these theories.

        Of course, we all want to find The One, the person that suits us best, with whom we will have unspoken understanding and the greatest joy. I know I would like to find that person. But what I have learned so far is that the partners I have had have helped me see the parts of me which were not fully developed. And, as painful as some lessons have been, they have helped me grow.

        So, for me in this moment, your other half is within yourself, you are your own soulmate, you just need to learn to be it. However, wouldn’t it be cool to find another soulmate besides yourself? 😉

        1. Windstorm2 says:

          I found your comments very thought provoking.
          “the partners I have had have helped me see the parts of me which were not fully developed. ”

          I have never thought that way, but looking back I can see that my long relationship with my husband (my only partner) has indeed highlighted the parts of me that needed to grow. Life does this too, but the interactions with another really made them stand out.

          And certainly many of these painful experiences have helped me grow. I didn’t realize this for a long time. I would just feel hurt and put upon and expect others to change and begin to treat me fairly. I’m not sure what exactly changed that expectation in my mind, I’ll need to meditate on it, but I’m sure glad it did change. Happiness truly comes from within – no one else creates my happiness and contentment except me!

          I also found it intriguing when you said, “your other half is within yourself.” I’m definitely going to be meditating on that one! I have seen little glimpses of this, but never thought about it in that context. A part of me wonders if that is what enlightenment really means.

          Thank you so much for your comment and insights! That’s one of the wonderful things about sharing ideas with others is to hear new insights that can let us grow!
          Oh, and by the way, you mentioned one of my greatest fears – that reincarnation might be true! That is my horror that I might not learn enough in this life and have to live it again!! Have a great week!

        2. RS says:

          But what I have learned so far is that the partners I have had have helped me see the parts of me which were not fully developed. And, as painful as some lessons have been, they have helped me grow.

          So, for me in this moment, your other half is within yourself, you are your own soulmate, you just need to learn to be it. However, wouldn’t it be cool to find another soulmate besides yourself? 😉

          So thought provoking, Lou. You have learned and become much wiser than I have through my experiences. Time for me to delve inside and examine the things I have gone through. Perhaps there is a gem inside after all?

    2. NarcAngel says:


      Thank you for pointing that out. That your other half is within yourself and you learn about yourself from those youve been with. While true and succinctly put, I thought this was what weve been learning all along-the need to accept the truth when given, and our role in it, in order to escape and avoid it happening again. It appears that its easier to digest this way in Empathic terms for some than the straight up word responsibility. Whatever works. Sigh.

      1. Windstorm2 says:

        Hey! Glad to “see” you. I think I understand what you’re saying about responsibility and learning here. If so, I completely agree, but that learning can come in many ways and manifests differently in different personalities.

        Also there are different levels of understanding. Sometimes someone will make a comment in a way we have never considered before and it can create a “satori” moment where suddenly we have a deeper insight into a truth we may have been aware of for many years on another level. I don’t know if that has anything to do with empathy or not. I’m pretty sure I’ve seen narcs have similar revelations. Maybe empaths do it more because we are constantly searching other people’s words for meaning and so primed to react emotionally. That is an interesting concept.

        Of course I may well have totally misunderstood your meaning. I do know that that is one of my greatest joys in life – to find deeper meaning and new insights in the ordinary and already known.
        Hope you have a great week!

      2. Lou says:

        Narc Angel, yes, that is what I have been learning and more all along my life. If I understood your comment correctly, you find my point redundant. Fine. I find yours ”sharky”.
        I guess you have to be patient with me then and keep sighing and rolling eyes at my empathic terms which are easier to digest for my poor empathic brain. I am probably not as smart as you. LOL

        1. NarcAngel says:


          I dont know how you read that but that is not at all how I felt about your post. I meant that I was glad that you know how to phrase things to convey it so that people accept the concept rather than my use of harder words in the past like responsibility that they may hear as “fault”, and that I might find better words as you did. I have no negative feeling toward you or your post at all. I does appear though that you may have some unresolved feeling toward me………

          1. Windstorm2 says:

            I think it’s safe to say that I feel absolutely zero negative feelings towards you, and I thought your original comment to her sounded critical. That’s why I explained in a comment to you how her original statement was helpful to me. Your explanation of what you really meant all along was rather a shock. I hadn’t gotten that at all from your original. What you really meant seems very polite and complementary.

            That just goes to show how easy it is to be misunderstood. I think it’s very important to always cut each other slack and be very slow to take offense. There’s no telling how often I say something that someone takes completely differently than I meant it. And from my perspective, I bend over backwards trying to never be critical. I wouldn’t be sending you this if I didn’t feel sure you would not be offended. Words are such an imperfect form of communication….

      3. Lou says:

        I think I got your point. You mean, why am I talking about soulmates in the first place when HG has been insisting on how narcs take advantage of this to ensnare empaths? In this case, valid point (sorry if I was harsh on you).

        1. NarcAngel says:


          To be crystal clear-I did not find your post redundant and I have never rolled my eyes at anything you have ever posted. The sigh was for my own inability to convey things in a more empathic nature as you did and so it appeared I had been spinning my wheels previously. Also, for the record, I do not think myself more intelligent but I am more logic than emotion which is of course what lands me in these situations. I have many and high narcissist traits but I am not a Narcissist if thats what people including you suspect (the sharky comment). Feel free to confirm that with HG if you like. If I were gunning for anyone I wouldnt be subtle and they wouldnt be unsure. I am glad however to see that you showed strength in addressing what you thought was a slight where you may previously have not done so. That is always a sign that someone is seizing the power as HG would say.

      4. Lou says:

        Not at all Narc Angel! I have no negative feelings towards you at all. Au contraire, I like you a lot. I am sorry, I really did not read your comment correctly. I understand your comment better now. I am very sorry I was sharky towards you. My bad.

      5. Lou says:

        Narc Angel, I am SO sorry.

        1. NarcAngel says:

          Its all good Lou. A misunderstanding of logic vs emotion in writing and interpretation is all that was. Apologies for my part in it and glad its cleared up.

      6. Lou says:

        Narc Angel,

        I know you are NOT a narcissist. I have never doubted that. For me that has always been clear. I see you have highly narcissistic traits but I have seen you show empathy too. I like you. Your comments always make sense to me. I was the shark here. I reacted too soon without really understanding your comment. I am sorry.

      7. Lou says:

        I totally agree with you Windstorm2, it is very easy to missunderstand comments.

  21. MyTrueSelf says:

    I think the narc is lonely, too. We projected our loneliness onto each other and that is why it was so fulfilling to be together – we filled the need for the other. The difference is my need is coming from altruism, wanting to share a life and his need is coming from a place of selfishness.
    Different source, different goal, same need, big problem.

    1. Diva says:

      A thought provoking response…….Diva

    2. Diana Wyatt says:

      A narc is never lonely.We think that they are lonely because we feel that way ourselve, at times while in the relationship with them. We project our feelings on to them. Never realizing that they are entertaining themselves with their secondary sources.It is the same as missing them when you are receiving the silent treatment. We think they have to miss us,as much as we miss them. They don’t. They are busy playing their games with others. While we are in misery, they are happy as clams somewhere else. That’s why the end is so hard to take. You realize that EVERY single bit, every word, every action was a LIE. We invite these people into our homes,our lives and our souls and they will take every LAST bit of dignity, self respect money,love and anything else that you have to offer. It’s a COLD hard truth. I am aware at the moment, that I sound bitter and you would be right. Will I get over it? Absolutely!!! This last year has been the hardest of my life but I will be damned if I let him win.

      1. Yolo says:

        No you don’t sound bitter, you are well on your way to healing. You are not delusional, you are applying your knowledge wisely.

        Awareness is a bitter pill to swallow but the healing makes it all worthwhile.

        Continued Healing 😊😊😊

    3. Tappan Zee says:

      Flip sides of same coin I often ponder. Before I plunge too far into the sea of emotion and feel “bad” blah blah. Reel myself into the logic boat.

    4. sarabella says:

      Like others, I am not so sure they are lonely. I have ‘heard’ he is alone, desperate and has no one. He told me himself once. But you would NEVER know this from his social media page. Or from the utter attitude he takes towards everyone, acting like such an ego maniac. But he is so frail and underneath all fo that, profoundly bitter and angry. They may be lonely, but they don’t appear to want to do anything about it or figure out how to fill that loneliness in a lasting and fulfilling way. When I think of all the women since I got involved with him who have come and gone in his life, knowing this is but a snapshot of his ENTIRE life, it really a lie that he is lonely. He LIKES this life. He has probably put his tiny penis in hundreds and hundreds and has never been happy or content with ONE person. I think they can’t love, can’t be happy and are just rotten at their core. Lonely to them doesn’t have the same meaning as it does to us.

  22. paul says:

    I had moved to a small town without knowing anyone there. So it wasn’t hard for my ex-narc to spot me standing apart from others in the pub. I wondered why she kept asking me over again who I was friends with there? In honesty, I told her (before I found out she was a narc) there was no one. She vehemently insisted, on one or two occasions, that she wanted to go to the pub on her own, and I wasn’t to follow her! This was during the Idealization Stage, or near the end of it? Obviously, she was going there to lay smears. Oh, how disappointing for her to get no responses from the people there! Hah, hah, hah! My regret is, that I didn’t direct her to the man who’d told me she was a narc. That would have been great 🙂

  23. C says:


    Actually I’m not really lonely, I am isolated and alone but I’m not really lonely .. spent too many years doing things by myself unless he wants to put on a show and either way he ends up making me feel uncomfortable to go out with him anyway .. now doesn’t that scream victim .. I can feel myself like oking to him for how I feel etc not sure if co-dependant is the right word as I like to retain my independence what ever is left of it even just Doing the food shopping etc .. he threw my tools away ( I was self reliant before or at least give house diy a go) he literally threw everything away and didn’t tell me until months after all he kept saying was he didn’t know where stuff was .. 15 years and we’re at this point .. is this why I keep getting overwhelmed and painful tears flow where they sting your eyes like lava

    1. Windstorm2 says:

      Mine threw away/destroyed a lot of my things, too. But he was always up front and told me – sometimes even before he would do it. One time he decided we didn’t need any kitchen utensils, appliances, pans, dishes, etc., that I hadn’t used in the last 30 days. That one was hard on me. Anyone who cooks knows there are tons of things in a kitchen that you may only use seasonally. 😣

      1. Twilight says:


        Mine took everything, my home, my career, my family, he left me with one suitcase and a baby that died within me.
        He told me I would regret what I said…..

        They looked away, they said I was the one who deserved what I got because I abused him, they laugh at me and made jokes.

        I am terrified to speak of what I went through, I have never wanted sympathy but a place where someone understands.

        HG has been the only one I could speak with and know he won’t give me sympathy but he will give me what I desire non sugar coated truth. I have a deep respect for him.

        1. Windstorm2 says:

          My personal belief is that sharing how you feel is very therapeutic and is important at least for me to heal. Very few people I have shared difficult things with had experienced similar things and really understood. But they often cared and supported me. Often they would be horrified at things I had long accepted (apparently normal people don’t experience gaslighting – something I just thought everyone endured). I’ve found it’s the response of the listener that is important for my healing, not how well they understand. If they have compassion, sympathy, empathy – whatever you call it, it’s a great comfort and support for me.

          I understand how you value HG’s advice, and I certainly would, too. I’m sure it is a very practical help. I also believe that as many people with different backgrounds who read this blog, there will be many here who will understand whatever you choose to share. But there are also a lot of us here, like myself, who may never really understand because you have endured things we can’t really even imagine. But we will try our best to understand and we will be supportive and we truly care about you. At least I know that I will and do. ❤️

        2. Diva says:

          Hi Twilight……I am with you more than you can realise…..I often write on this blog about a mid range narc that I knew……but he is not the real reason I am here……he was just the catalyst……..that’s all I can say……I too struggle to share, tell or admit……..in my case it stems from my childhood……..anyway……I just wanted to let you know that you are not on your own in that regard……..Diva

          1. Twilight says:

            Hi Diva

            I believe I understand

            I was with a cerebral greater, to which I really pissed off. Yet that was never the reason why I came here either.

          2. Diva says:

            Hi Twilight

            I believe you do understand……….we are both in the right place……..better late than never!!!!! Diva

          3. Twilight says:

            Hi Diva

            Ha ha yes we are in the right place

            Hope you are having a fabulous day!

      2. Twilight's says:


        I believe the same thing, for me thou I have never been one to really share. I am not sure if it is because of the way I was raised to dealing with my husband and his family then my ex and being called a Narcissist, to which I really believed he changed me after I did what I did, except I hurt I felt what I did to him and I never want to experience that again. I see what mid rangers do for sympathy, my sister did for attention and sympathy. Speaking with therapists, which did more damage then good.

        To not wanting to accept I love a man. He is amazing and everytime we talk it is like butterflies and being electrocuted at the same time. It has been a long time sense I have felt this way. It didn’t happen over night but over time. He has slowly gained my trust. I would say he is the man of my dreams…

        Then on top of all this I had to create a new word press account…

        I am laughing cause the odds of all of this right now……

        I am going to blame it on the moon tonight

        Thank you Windstorm2 voicing my feelings helped some at least with the accepting some things.

        1. Windstorm2 says:

          Boy I can identify with the frustration of having to make a new word press account!

          I was going to comment on how much I loved your profile pic of the candle in the snowy scene. This ones nice too. You must be feeling creative!

          Did I understand that you have someone special in your life? That sounds wonderful and scary at the same time. I hope he is all that he seems.

          For many years I never would share anything with others either. I was convinced I was just crazy and broken and best to try to hide it from everyone by staying silent. I’ve come to believe now, however that that was just a result of growing up with two narc parents, then stepping right into my endless narc relationship with my husband. Most if not all of my mental problems are the result of how I was raised, not some personal defect.

          Realizing that has been very freeing, and I feel much more real happiness in my life now. You may be the same way. When you start to worry about something being wrong with you, or that you might be a narc, remember that. Your past was shaped by the narcs you lived with. Your present is your own to shape however you want it to be.

          I was serious about caring about you. I know we’ll never meet, but I’ve been reading your comments here for a long time and feel a real bond with you. I’ll keep praying n sending positive energy your way! ⚡️⚡️⚡️❤️

          1. Twilight says:


            Thank you for both your positive energy and the compliment on my pictures.

            We have been talking for awhile. Time will tell were things go, right now I am enjoying our conversations. He is an amazing man that takes my breath away.

            I have always been quite even as a child, yet Inwould have to agree being raised by two of HGs kind then married into and dealing with my husband and his family reenforced this

            I have the day off today so I need to get to unpacking and getting settled in, I will feel better once this mess is cleaned up and stuff is put away. I can deal with an organized mess but a chaotic mess no cant do it, that I know is from living with them all my life.

            Everyone here has affected me in some way, I care about all of you, and understand we won’t all see eye to eye and this is ok.
            You all are amazing and awesome just as you are!!!!

      3. K says:

        Twilight & WS2
        Your comments made me so sad. I am so sorry about the gaslighting you experienced WS2 and the loss of your kitchen utensils. And Twilight, I am truly sorry for the loss of your baby, home, career and family. And then to be laughed at and told you deserved it, how cruel and heartless. Not that it helps much, but I do understand you. The sorrow is so deep, that the thought of articulating it is terrifying. Let’s make a trade: Bazooka bubble gum, a couple of marbles and a 1977 Star Wars series 1, blue trading card, Darth Vader in mint condition, of course, in exchange for some of your sorrow. You are in my thoughts tonight.

        1. RS says:

          Let’s make a trade: Bazooka bubble gum, a couple of marbles and a 1977 Star Wars series 1, blue trading card, Darth Vader in mint condition, of course, in exchange for some of your sorrow. You are in my thoughts tonight.

          That made me think of how much simpler things were when we were young. It reminded me of a Carly Simon song called “It Was So Easy” from her “No Secrets” album. I don’t like being an adult.

          1. Twilight says:


            I am so sorry about what happen to you at 6, I was 4, dancing with the butterflies snatch up and well the rest is history.

            I don’t know simple and I never heard that song yet it is beautiful. Thank you for sharing.

        2. RS says:

          Carly Simon Lyrics

          “It Was So Easy”

          I remember a time, rompin’ through the woods
          Sun against our skin instead of clothes
          When we felt hungry we would eat, whn we felt glad we would dance
          And whenever we felt drowsy we would doze

          It was so easy then never takin’ any stands
          It was so easy then, holdin’ hands

          I remember a time when our fears could be named
          And courage meant not refusing dares
          I remember when we took such cares to step never on the cracks,
          No only on the squares
          Or else we’d be abducted by the bears

          It was so easy then never makin’ any plans
          It was so easy then, holdin’ hands
          It was so easy then never makin’ any plans
          It was so easy then, holdin’ hands

          And now we are grown, with debts and regrets
          And broken hearts and sentimental schemes
          Now every tender failure seems to overthrow old dreams
          Love can lead a normal woman to extremes

          It was so easy once, holdin’ hands without a plan
          It was so easy once holdin’ hands
          Just holdin’ hands

          1. Windstorm2 says:

            This made me laugh! My childhood was one long nightmare! If there is a hell and I end up there it will be having to live thru my childhood again! – just typing that scares me!!

            I’m glad you have those simple, pleasant memories of being a child. I hope my children and grandchildren all have them, too. But for me – there’s nothing on earth would make me go back and live thru that again. Freedom is control and power over my own life. Happiness and security come from being able to make my own choices. Only as an adult can I have those things, so I’m very content to stay right here!! 😄

          2. RS says:

            It wasn’t ALL a bed of roses, WS2. I was molested by a neighbor when I was 6. My brother beat him to a pulp. We found out later from his wife that he had done this before. He was put away for awhile but when he got out I would see him lurking on the main street (small town) glaring at me.

          3. Windstorm2 says:

            Very sorry you had to go thru that with the neighbor. I never suffered any type of physical abuse. Mine was all emotional. I really have no pleasant memories of my childhood like you all describe though. It sounds to me like you lived in a movie.

            I was isolated alone on a farm and never played with friends. Never allowed away from my parents, nothing social except church and school and I never talked to anyone there. I was one of those isolates that sit on the edge of a playground and never talk or play with the other children. I was afraid to. I did enjoy getting out in the woods and riding my bike, but there was always an undercurrent of fear and a knowledge that I had to go back home.

            We are all different and that’s a good thing. I agree that our childhood shapes us into who we become. I admit that whenever people talk about happy childhoods, great sex, wonderful kissing or any of the things I have never/will never experience it creates a melancholy in me. Probably means it’s time to meditate. 😄 I am forever thankful that my life now is so blessed and full of happiness! There is no point on feeling sorry for pleasures I have not had. Best to concentrate on my many blessings!

          4. Diva says:

            Hi RS……that is truly shocking, your reply made me shiver, not a pleasant childhood memory for sure. That must have affected you in some way going forward, I would have thought??? I am not looking for answers to that question by the way……I am merely thinking out loud…… I thought you were brave for even sharing your story in the first instance………Diva

          5. RS says:

            Brave? 😄More like I usually give TMI! (I need to work on that) Thank you for your concern, Diva! 😘💜

          6. RS says:

            I forgot to say how sorry I am that you had to live through what you did. We only get to be children for such a short time. . . we deserve to have it be lovely. It shapes our whole adulthood.

          7. Diva says:

            Hi Windstorm2 …….I hear you loud and clear………..I am very much in your camp……..Diva

        3. Twilight says:


          That made me giggle. I love me some Darth Vada. Tall dangerous and powerful.

          I will keep my sorrow, compared to how so many feel to me it is nothing, yet has its moments when it decides to run down my cheek. I was born in hell, yet my life thou made me who I am today. I have the choice to let it bring me down or see it as a strength. I fought who I was for a long time and it got me no where, I now embrace who I am and I love my life, even thou it is really hard at the moment. Things always seem to happen in a way that has caused me to grow and become more aware.

          And if I don’t actually get up today (my day off) and finish unpacking my stress level is going to stay high

          You ladies have a wonderful amazing day!

          Thank you thou, I care for you all you are all amazing and beautiful!!!

      4. K says:

        If I could go back in time, I would do it so fast that heads would spin! Being an adult can suck big time!!! I miss bubble gum, baseball cards, jump rope and long bike rides with my friends. (nostalgic)

        1. RS says:

          You and me both! Snowball fights, playing Tarzan and Jane in the woods, swimming all day until our hands looked like prunes, looking for four leaf clovers in the grass. . . .I would go back in a minute but only if I could stay there and not have to go through puberty again. 😉

      5. K says:

        Sledding, snowball fights, hide-and-go-seek…minus the puberty, life was great when I was with my friends.

        Does anyone remember the scene in Jaws where they compare scars. We can compare childhoods and see who has the biggest scar from a Narc-shark bite. Remember when Richard Dreyfuss pointed to heart and said: “I got the creme de la creme, right there, Mary Ellen Moffett, she broke my heart.” Then he laughs. That was a great movie.

      6. narc affair says:

        Hi twilight…i just read your post and just wanted to say how sorry i am you experienced what you have. You are a very strong woman 💓

  24. angela says:

    yo me sacare los ojos antes de volver con elN

  25. Diva says:

    Now that I think about it…….both of my narcs asked me within minutes of meeting me, if I was lonely or unhappy? I never really was……..you can be alone without being lonely……..you just need to occupy your mind and body!!!! On saying that, if I have a significant other in my life, I do get dependent on them very swiftly……even though I have just written this myself……it makes no sense to me!!!!!……Diva

    1. paul says:

      “Asking”… A definite Red Flag! People just don’t ask that when they’ve hardly met – too intrusive, and a ‘spoiler’ question in any conversation. Narcs ask it, 1) To check if you’re emotionally vulnerable? 2) To find out what friends you have so they can smear you to them.

      1. Diva says:

        Hi Paul…..I know you are right…….now!!!! …….I just did not see it at the time……I thought they were just showing an interest or concern or making conversation. I tend to be a little naïve where people are concerned…….but I do know that I have never asked anyone that question myself…….I wouldn’t need to ask if anyone was unhappy or lonely, as I would instinctively know by their demeanour…….. Diva

        1. paul says:

          I’m saying all this in hindsight. Apart from the pity ‘pleas’ (do they all use that tactic?) there’s this ‘soul mate’ thing they use…”We have so much in common,” etc. “Like what, for example?” Is what I should have said but, it would have sounded rude, or something. Mistake! I believe it should do no harm to ask, WHY somebody says they like what we like. It would catch a narc out because they can only ‘mirror’ (anyway, do they have genuine opinions?).

          1. Diva says:

            Hi Paul …..to answer your questions from my own perspective……I only saw the pity pleas and the “soul mate scam” from a midrange narc…….he said I was like an addiction but it felt the same for me also, so it was no doubt mirroring. I am sure that all narcs have their own genuine opinions, likes and dislikes……take HG for example…..he likes Depeche Mode, strawberry ice cream, Bloody Marys…..to name a few……would he change these “likes” or indeed his opinions to enable him to mirror someone else, or to be more appealing to someone else…..I suspect he would have no trouble in that regard…….I believe this because even though he dislikes cuddling or touching, he can still mange to “perform” these tasks if there is fuel to be gained…….it would appear that he can simply be whoever the person he is looking at, wants him to be……..Diva

          2. paul says:

            OK, so I probably got it right then: from HG’s descriptions of them, I worked out that she’s a Lower-Midrange, Somatic-Victim because, at first, I got the illness stories, soul mate stuff and lots of addiction claims that you say is midrange material. She did repeat many times, she was addicted to me. It was all somatic: my hair, my voice, etc, pathetic really! You say, you’ve only seen these traits in a midranger. Have you been collecting them – can’t have been pleasant? By the way, HG uses a structure of cadres and schools of narcs. Do you know if this is a generally accepted structure or is it just his creation?

  26. Yolo says:

    I may feel lonely or alone at times, but, I will cut my hands off before I reach for them.

  27. narc affair says:

    This is exactly where i was at and why i was targeted the feeling of lonliness. As far as isolation i did this to myself by becoming fully engulfed in his world thru constant contact and merging thru the years. Weve shared so much yet shared on a level that hasnt built into anything concrete nor should it have. So what has it become? Its become a lot of things and one of them has been a reliance. That reliance has created a fear and self doubt about myself. Ive lost my independance and isolated myself from who i am and others both those i know and who i couldve known if id been living life fully. As a counsellor said to me once “youre not living” and i knew exactly what she meant. She meant im on standstill in my life afraid to live fully for fear of losing the narc and why? Because id be where i started when he targeted me …lonely. Lonely in a marriage that i shouldve focused on but instead took a detour with someone who could fill that lonliness with a facade and one id only be too happy to go along with. Lonliness is where i started and instead of dealing with it ended up in this narcissistic relationship.

  28. Kim Michaud says:

    I never discarded anyone for him but he sure made people discard me

    1. Bliss says:

      Then they were never worth your time anyway. Repeating comforting words sent my way. It didn’t help massively but it still helped. Hope you still have a good support network and making new friends. I’ve been lucky to have forged new friendships in the past months. Silver lining.

  29. Anne says:

    Wow, COLD, and accurate!

    1. Twilight, I absolutely adore, HG. He has always been there to speak the truth when i needed to hear it most. Please except my offer of a consultation via phone call from, HG; when you are ready to book it.

      1. Twilight says:


        I am not usually this straightforward especially this particular subject….
        Did your mother pass away?

  30. RS says:

    I don’t think so. . . my daughter is MY savior! She never let go of my hand. She loved me through all of your evil lies. SHE is my reason to live.

  31. Tappan Zee says:

    Once all those ties have been cut you are mine. You are dependent on me for everything. You have nobody to turn to and thus your focus will always be on me. As you try harder to please me, the realisation of your isolation becomes all the more apparent. You can feel the tendrils of loneliness wrapping around you once again. I know you will feel this and I know you will do all the more to cling onto me, your life raft, your beacon of hope in the wilderness. Anything to avoid being left alone. I am afraid it is too late. Your isolation was sealed the moment you listened to me. You are so alone nobody can hear you scream. <—My XN's atty asked me on the stand why I never told anyone about the (airquotes) abuse.


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