The Igniters of Fury – No. 19

SAYINGSORRY

83 thoughts on “The Igniters of Fury – No. 19

  1. Brandy Clayton says:

    How’s come I can’t see the article!

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Wave the magic wand of “meme”.

  2. Deepsigh says:

    HG….
    What is the difference between a psychopath and any kind of narcissist? 😭

  3. Deepsigh says:

    Windstorm…
    Yes thank you for your contributions….also that happened 3 years ago and I broke it off with him the next day…..and though we have communicated since then….I have never agreed to meet with him again..,,we have almost had plans in order again….when I broke them off because he upset me….so as far as immediate danger…,I am not with him…..he also lives in Canada and I live in Texas….so yeah….but I want to ask you a favor….if you could please elaborate on your last comment to me….as I am trying to understand exactly what you are saying to me….if you don’t mind….
    Thank you

    1. Windstorm2 says:

      Deep sigh
      Which comment did you want me to elaborate on? Why I stayed married for 30 years?

      1. Deepsigh says:

        No….the one about the danger….about the comment I made that was setting off alarms and disturbed you….about my ex narcissist and what he said to me….

        1. Windstorm2 says:

          Deepsigh
          I guess what I was trying to say is if someone I was with made a casual (not emotion-filled or angry, but just matter-of-fact) statement in my presence about hurting me, I’d think “psychopath” and it would set off alarm bells in my mind.

          People who calmly mention committing abuse or major crimes tend to be unreliable and dangerous, maybe not deadly dangerous, but then again, maybe they are. If that danger is aimed in my direction, it’s not worth taking the risk to me. I would distance myself from them and protect myself as much as possible.

          1. Deepsigh says:

            Windstorm
            Yes I understand and as I mentioned it was 3 years ago and he hasn’t seen me in person since and that is because I refuse too….and I have told him that is the biggest reason and he knows it…I can’t believe he thinks that what he said wouldn’t scare me….and then I told him once later post break up..,that he was someone I thought I cared about and someone I also fear….and his reply was….”just like sweet and salty”…..so
            Weird! But yeah we don’t talk anymore and it is because of his scary threats and also I have no idea why someone would warn you like that….why would you scare the prey off before you could eat it? Makes no sense!

  4. IJ says:

    HG – thank you for your response. Very helpful.
    Deepsigh – mine future fakes coming to see me. Says he will give me as much notice as possible. Is “almost SURE he can come this time”. Then never shows AND never even says anything or makes an excuse. And yes, he knows he has no intention of showing. And so do I, now. This 3rd time I told him my expectations were zero, and stopped contacting (though I admit I am not NC at all…. I can’t seem to break the social media.) What does he get out of it? Fuel. Even if imagined since I didn’t respond.

    1. Deepsigh says:

      I’m sorry that happens…..I think he gets off from getting your hopes up and then collects the fuel as HG calls it from your yes real or imagined hurt and disappointment….or he is just so mindless that he forgets he told ou he would see you….just my opinion right off the top.

  5. E. B. says:

    I am afraid I cannot understand this one. I have just read the comments below and some people were referring to *the Narcissist* (!) saying he is sorry. However, the meme shows *the Victim* apologizing to the narcissist (and not the other way round).

    So if the narcissist’s fury is ignited when *the Victim* apologizes (and NOT the Narcissist), why does this happen?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      It doesn’t show the victim apologising EB.

      1. E. B. says:

        I am sorry I got it wrong, HG. It is my fault. If she is the narcissist, apologizing would be beneath her. I have never received a sincere apology from a narcissist. They would say they were sorry and would change their behaviour in the future (future faking) to prevent me from leaving the relationship.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Indeed EB.

    2. Deepsigh says:

      What is future faking?

      1. HG Tudor says:

        Saying “let’s go on holiday together” and then talking about it but never doing it.

        1. Deepsigh says:

          I see…so about this future faking…what is the main purpose of doing it? And do they know they will never follow through on it?

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Fuel, binding you, keeping you invested.

        2. Deepsigh says:

          It would be funny if after a person learned this about future faking….and the Narc started up on it again…and the person said to them….ohhh stop with the future faking….you know you are full of shit! Lol

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Not really because you would invariably deliver Challenge Fuel with such a comment.

          2. Deepsigh says:

            Yeah….you know I am really curious as to how a Narc can be married to one woman for 8 years! How did she put up with him? I mean how does one survive a mid range to greater narc in an 8 year marriage? When I can’t even survive them more than 2 years of dating them or some even 6 months? Was she better than me…? Or had some qualities that I didn’t?

          3. HG Tudor says:

            There are many different reasons why relationships last longer for some than others. Different schools of narcissist, different schools of empath, longer Respite Periods, inability to leave for thousands of different reasons, the narcissist not having a reason to disengage, the maintenance of the facade externally, a Stepford Devaluation, inability to recognise the extent of the abuse, repeated submission to emotional thinking and lots more besides. A very expansive question.

          4. Windstorm2 says:

            Deep sigh
            There are lots of variables like HG said. My own marriage was 30 years. Some factors for me were:
            1 that I was expecting a narcissist. That’s what all the men I knew were. I thought that’s what all men were.
            2 Mine was a greater cerebral and smart enough to never push me over the edge until his alcoholism got away from him.
            3 I believed marriage was forever. If other women could stand it, I could, too.
            4 Four children who I believed (and still believe) were better off with both of us.
            5 His parents fully understood narcissism and taught me how to cope and survive.
            6 If mine did ever cheat on me with another woman he kept it totally hidden even till today.
            7 I was the type of wife he wanted and I had many residual benefits.
            8. Façade management. He was very careful what family and the world thought of him and a successful marriage was an important part to him.

          5. HG Tudor says:

            Thanks for contributing WS2.

          6. Deepsigh says:

            HG
            I want ask your option…
            Ok…so I’m on a get away with my mid to Greater possibly….Narc and he says to me as we are laying together on the bed looking at each other…..and he looks into my eyes and says….”I don’t understand how I can love you and want to hurt you at the same time”……..what do you make of that statement….as we were not fighting…..just laying together….?

          7. HG Tudor says:

            Looking for fuel with your response, seeing if you agree or disagree, ascertaining the extent of control.

          8. Windstorm2 says:

            Oh ha, ha, HG!! I just happened to actually look at this picture for this meme! Pretty sure it’s the exact same pic my Moron in Munich sent me for my birthday one year! I was shocked and horrified! He tried to convince me that we were like Tristan and Isolde and that was such a very beautiful love story.

            I thought the whole thing was terrible! They seemed like very weak and immoral people. And how could anyone think it was a good and beautiful thing to be totally consumed by the fire of your love? Not to mention the whole “lust Affair” moved too quick and ended too soon. And I couldn’t help but wonder what was in his mind for our future for him to go on so about our relationship being like a famous tragedy?

            I imagine that this is just in his meager, midrange bag of tricks that he has used over the years with various women. Like so many things he tried, the poor moron had no ability to gauge my personality nor any awareness of how his actions really made me feel. Unfortunately for him, a cookie-cutter approach only works on cookie dough. 😄

          9. Deepsigh says:

            Hmmm…well thank you for that…well my reaction was actually nothing because I was so stunned by him saying that…..that I did not say anything…..judging by my reaction it was as if he said nothing….like a child laying in the dark….trying to pretend they didn’t just hear a noise from the closet! I just laid there and said nothing at all….mainly because my mind could not yet comprehend what I just heard…I did not address this at the time with him….But I did break up with him a day later……and I only brought up his odd scary comments later in post break up emails…..which he wouldn’t give any explanations whatsoever….! Again thank you HG….

          10. HG Tudor says:

            You are welcome.

          11. Windstorm2 says:

            Deep sigh
            Just reading that last post was disturbing to me. It set off all sorts of alarms in my mind! The scene you described sounds like one of those psychic wake up calls the universe sometimes gives us to avoid bad danger! I do hope you’re not in real danger of actual harm and if so, you’re already planning your escape!

      2. E. B. says:

        Deepsigh,
        “The technique of future faking is a splendid device that we utilise by promising you jam tomorrow so we can have all the jam today” 🙂
        50 Future Fakes
        https://narcsite.com/2017/09/07/50-future-fakes/

      3. Bubbles🍾 says:

        Dear Deepsigh,

        My friend did this constantly. We can do this, we can do that. Volunteered to make me things and never did … even drew up plans! He’s kept the plans and will probably show the next victim … “look at me, look at me, look how clever I am. ”
        Their mouths continually “runneth over” with the sound of their own voice and lies. I mentioned some of these things to him in the end and he looked at me with this blankness as if I was talking a foreign language and really didn’t care 🤢

      4. jenna says:

        EB,
        Ty for pasting the future faking article.

        Hg,
        Due to the high influx of questions, may i suggest u to simply guide users to the relevant article rather than having to type out the long answer? In no way am i trying to undermine ur authority here.

      5. jenna says:

        Windstorm,

        Ur moron in munich sent u this pic?! So creepy!
        I also remember u saying his gravatar pic is his late mother’s grave with flowers on it. Who does that?😰

        1. Windstorm2 says:

          Jenna
          Yeah, I know. And this was in his love-bombing stage! What kind of a birthday gift was that? That he wanted me to burn up from my love for him? I found it deeply troubling…

          1. jenna says:

            Windstorm,

            That too in the love bombing phase!
            “That he wanted me to burn up from my love for him?”

            Omg!! He is such a moron!!!!!

            It is absolutely incorrect behavior!!!! Just utterly ridiculous!! 😅😂😂

  6. Nuit Étoilée says:

    Once I was told he was probably a narc, I literally tried to see if I could get him to apologize..

    The closest I got was, “You may have a point there”

    .. and the times he would start with “I’m sorry” but then negate it by adding “that you feel..” etc etc – meaning, you’re wrong, not me.

    *and that was in the “golden period”

    **this was in attempting to ascertain if there was any insight, self-awareness.. there wasn’t.

    Yet, (and this is for you, Gab), he would say things like
    “I feel empty inside”
    “I feel so unstable”

    and I would question if he had self-awareness, but no, not really – a recognition of being unsettled.. but he called it depression.

    1. Nuit Étoilée says:

      ..and I wanted to add – he had absolutely NO IDEA why all his relationships failed.

      He lamented that he always wanted to be with one woman for life..
      He actually told me he was sad about this and that “there must be a reason” – I was fascinated… When he would complain about his ex.. I would listen.. but eventually, I asked – Do you see your part in this? and he would say – yes, and then immediately switch to how much more wrong she had hurt him…

      .. nothing was his fault.

  7. Bubbles🍾 says:

    Dear Mr Tudor,

    My narcs always went silent when it came to saying sorry.

    If they did… they said it very quietly and quickly and one had to ask them to repeat it, because you couldn’t hear them.

    They appeared to almost “choke” on the word … haha
    Now I know why I received the silent treatment after that.

    Your memes are always thought provoking for us, great learning skills

  8. Tappan Zee says:

    Do not be sorry. Be better. Puh-lease.

  9. Patricia Hensley says:

    Not once did he say he was sorry. I did assume he was sorry, but that was my mistake. He said he was humbled once when he drove into a big ditch, but I don’t think so.

  10. Noname says:

    Truth. They rather die, than say “sorry”.
    “For what?! I did nothing wrong!”.

  11. Giulia says:

    I don’t care if he says sorry and I don’t care if it makes him mad.

  12. Mine wanted my apologies, and they seemed to mollify him.

    When it was HIS turn to apologize, somehow, it never was exactly an apology. It was blaming, excusing, and promising. If I accepted this, his demeanor immediately changed from faux apologetic, to everything’s rosy. If not, he was hurt and offended, and pointing out my many imperfections.

    All simply bovine excrement.

  13. Insatiable Learner says:

    HG, do you mean when a narc is somehow forced to say (when it suits his purpose/ furthers his agenda) he is sorry, this ignites his fury?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Yes.

      1. geyserempath says:

        Okay. Got it. It’s HIS apologizing that ignites fury, not mine. Thanks, HG

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Bingo. You are welcome GE.

          1. Windstorm2 says:

            But the opposite is often true as well, HG. Mine tend to get angry and be more verbally abusive when I apologize to them. My apology is like an irritant. Silence with no emotion and just moving on with what we were doing seems to work much better.

          2. HG Tudor says:

            Yes, your apologising may also annoy and anger.

      2. Insatiable Learner says:

        Thank you!

      3. IJ says:

        He future faked me yet again and I had enough and stopped contact for the first time ever. After 4 weeks, he sent a song with lyrics “I made a big mistake; try to see it once my way.” Does he do the song thing so he can deny that the message in it was to me, (for pride) even though I know it was? And now that he “sort of” apologized, he’s probably fuming because of it, so if he does contact again down the line, I should expect even more fury I suppose?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          This isn’t an apology. This is classic Mid Range behaviour.
          “I made a big mistake” appears to recognise he has done wrong “try to see it once my way” – lack of accountability AND blame-shifting through insinuation that you fail to see his point of view most of the time and that is a fault on your part.

  14. geyserempath says:

    WS2 – I always say I am sorry and my MLV Narc always accepted it or so I thought. He always answered my apologetic emails by downplaying my apology and telling me we were still “good” as friends. Interestingly, after each apology, I would be returned to the golden period. So although I am a shelved IPSS and as he moves farther and farther distant, I am not supposed to apologize for upsetting him (as I figured I have done)? I don’t understand.

    1. deepsigh2017 says:

      geyserempath….
      I promise that I in no way mean what I am about to say in a bad way or as any put down to you at all….but….from what I’ve been reading about IPSS….from HG’s writing is that the IPSS….secondary…is already put on the shelf and stored there from the beginning….like and that it is agreed upon that this will be your position in the Narcs life…..sooo…maybe I have misunderstood what I have read…. but if you are not a primary and you are a secondary and you know this…..then why does this treatment come as a surprise to you….as the position of IPSS is a type of shelved position from the beginning….anyways…my first greater Narc tried to get me to agree to this position after the devaluation phase and I broke up with him…..I absolutly would not agree to knowingly take on a secondary friends with benefits position after I had already been a primary….hell no! I have too much pride for that! and I definitly would never knowingly sleep with a married man or a man who is in another relationship…NO WAY……and I don’t do friends with benefits….when you are in a friends with benefit situation with a man….you cannot have any expectations as he has already lost respect for you….maybe I am mistaken in my understanding of the IPSS position….but I believe it is a using position…anyways…hope this does not offend you…just trying to understand.

      1. HG Tudor says:

        Not quite correct DS.

        A narcissist meets you and does not know you. You are a tertiary source. You get talking, go on a date or two. There is no intimacy. You are a NISS. The next date there is intimacy – you are now an IPSS.
        The narcissist is keen, you are love-bombed and on track to becoming the new IPPS. Thus you are a Candidate IPSS. More time is spent together but then things are not going as well as expected for the narcissist and a different IPSS who is a Shelf IPSS 2 (but not on the shelf at present) is also being interacted with.

        The Candidate IPSS becomes a Shelf IPSS 1 but the narcissist has not put them on the shelf, he is still engaging with her and also the other Shelf IPSS 2. Nobody is Candidate IPSS at this point. The other Shelf IPSS 2 begins to impress further and becomes the Candidate IPSS. The first person remains a Shelf IPSS 1. The Candidate IPSS is then promoted to IPPS. The Shelf IPSS 1 is placed on the shelf now.

        You can move between Shelf and Candidate IPSS and potentially become IPPS. Some do not, some do.

        1. deepsigh2017 says:

          So what would be the biggest indicator that one was promoted to Primary? Or how would you know if you were primary or secondary?

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Engagement, marriage and/or living together are some of the key indicators.

          2. deepsigh2017 says:

            Well…hell I guess I was just a secondary gone wrong….however I had no idea this man was a Narc or even what that was…but he did of course speak of how much he loved me and we spoke of marriage and living together…but I made him mad and he freaked me out too soon! I will say that he was a busy man with his career…but I had his full on attention and if there were others he was wooing….I don’t see how he had the time for that because I required so much of his attention and he was overly glad to comply….he was a senior project manager for a big name website which I will not mention….anyways…but he had me believing I was gonna be the one…but an unfortunate thing occurred and it was done on my part and its a long story…but I presented a huge challenge to him as I was always putting the breaks on and he was wanting to move so fast for “I love you” and I wasn’t to committed to throwing that phrase around like that….plus we were long distance and had to plan ahead of time to meet up…so we were not together in person as much as by phone and other methods….I cancelled on him like 4 different times when he booked flights to come see me…and those were not cheap flights as he lived in Canada…. and I live in Texas….but he kept hanging in there….I think I tried to end it with him several times while still in the golden period…only because of uncertainty and he still hung in there…so I don’t know what the hell I was to him!!!! We were in person together and we were intimate as well throughout the relationship…he always flew to me….I was in the process of getting my passport through the whole relationship as I kept putting that off too…anyways..I do know he was not married and he was divorced by a year and a half…so I know he wasn’t married….

        2. gabbanzobean says:

          HG, this response about the IPSSs on and off the shelf is very helpful. How does the DLS (or DLSs) fit into this?

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Along the same basis.

  15. Sandra says:

    Ha ha. Having to acknowledge that he’s lost the upper hand is a classic igniter.

    That’s what “Sorry” is to him.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Correct.

  16. Kimi says:

    Why HG? Because it highlights our weakness and failure? I’ve missed this and used it often as it seemed to soothe whether or not I was to blame.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You are looking at it the wrong way around Kimi.

  17. Windstorm2 says:

    This one was a surprise to me and difficult to learn. It is my nature to say sorry whenever I feel I have upset someone. But since learning this from you, I try never to say sorry to a narcissist. And this is helpful, even though it seems contradictory. A narc is much less likely to get angry if you don’t say you’re sorry, while the opposite is true for most other people.

    1. thepianist20 says:

      But sorry is like showing respect

      Why is a narcissist annoyed by just a sorry? :O

      1. HG Tudor says:

        You are looking at it the wrong way around.

        1. thepianist20 says:

          Oh okay,, I get it

          My narc mom hates it when I say sorry again and again

          She sees it as a sign of weakness/insult

    2. Sandra says:

      Hi Windstorm. I suspect my approach has angered him \o/

      Instead of offering the reciprical “I’m sorry too” that he’s fishing for, I last replied with “I’m not sorry. I did right by you to the best of my ability”.

      He wanted a pat on the back for giving me comfort crumbs. I took it for what it really was…an admission of having lost the upper hand and I left it hanging in the air like a fart.

    3. Caroline says:

      Hi, WS 🙂 I don’t understand this one. Would you mind explaining why this angers them?

      1. HG Tudor says:

        You are looking at it the wrong way around Caroline.

        1. Caroline says:

          Oh, got it. Thanks, HG.

  18. narc affair says:

    It kills them to say sorry and if they do expect payback. My narc has the lovliest apologies but i always see payback in some form later. It could be weeks or even months but i see it. Either its a snarky comment relating to the conflict he had apologized for basically taking back the apology or its some covert way to hurt me. Then theres the shelving which could be a form of punishment too for standing up for myself.
    They burn up inside having to say sorry. Its beneath them.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Correct.

    2. Antifragile says:

      Thank you so much NA for this deep observations explanation – now I got the idea of this one…

  19. thepianist20 says:

    HG!

    What is exactly wrong in saying sorry?

  20. gabbanzobean says:

    Okay it must be Narc opposite day again. How can “saying sorry” be an igniter of fury IF it is supposed to always be our fault and you expect us to apologize? I thought you want us to always be apologizing for stupid shit, irregardless of whether or not it is our fault. So now the “sorries” cause fury? Well shit, this just reaffirms no matter what I do it’s wrong wrong wrong on this cold and chilly Narc opposite day.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You are looking at it the wrong way around.

      1. gabbanzobean says:

        Okay I understand now seeing the other replies. At least I am not the only one who misunderstood!

        You get furious when YOU say you are sorry.

        I think my mid said sorry to me a handful of times. He did it quick, half assed and then changed the topic of discussion. It really hurts you THAT bad, doesn’t it?

    2. Patricia Hensley says:

      Oh yes. At first he nit picked at me for everything until I said sorry continually. Then yes he was so angry. Said to ne that I apologize too much. So then I was watching myself on saying I am sorry.
      Then he became a victim. Like I hurt his feelings cause I wasn’t sorry for not doing something right or didn’t fix the right thing for dinner so I was heartless to his feelings.
      It all keeps you on edge and walking on eggshells.

  21. Deepsigh says:

    Like the actual words…sorry? Or apologies?

  22. Deepsigh says:

    Why?

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