No Contact Suicide – Part Two

NO CONTACTSUICIDEPART TWO

I have explained previously that there are two guaranteed ways by which you will cause your no contact regime to be breached. The first method is as a consequence of you contacting us first, where we anticipate that you will make that contact with us, be it in person, by telephone call, text message or social media contact. The second method by which you commit no contact suicide arises where we contact you, but you, in effect left the door wide open. In a way, to describe it as no contact suicide is slightly misleading because for suicide to be committed, this presupposes that no contact was actually in place to begin with. Many people may well think that they have imposed no contact, but they have not done so and this second form of ‘suicide’ is very common indeed.

The second method of committing no contact suicide is where you leave open a route by which we may contact you of an electronic nature. Accordingly, this mistake includes :-

  • Not blocking our telephone number
  • Not blocking our e-mail address
  • Not blocking us on every social media platform
  • Not changing your telephone number(s)
  • Not changing your e-mail address(es)
  • Not removing yourself from every social media platform

You will notice that there are two parts to ensuring a robust no contact regime when it concerns electronic communications. The first is to prevent us from contacting you using our existing platform – we can call or text you from our existing number and it gets through, we can continue to e-mail you from our existing e-mail address, we are able to post messages to your social media and send direct messages from our relevant account or accounts.

You may be surprised to learn that many people do not block us when they are supposedly implementing no contact. For a smaller percentage this is because those individuals have misunderstood the concept of no contact. They think it is all about ensuring that the victim does not contact the narcissist and therefore believes, mistakenly, that numbers ought not to be blocked because the victim believes they will resist the urge to contact the narcissist (thus avoiding No Contact Suicide Part One). A further percentage do so either naively or arrogantly because they believe that the narcissist has gone. The victim believes that since the narcissist raged at them and told them it was over and that they never wanted to see the victim again, that must mean this was the ‘final discard’.

As I have stated many, many times, there is no such thing as a Final Discard

You may think that you have caused massive wounding to the narcissist, that you exposed the narcissist in such a way that there is no way on earth that the narcissist is going to hoover you. So many times I have read comments and questions from my readers where they state

‘There is no chance of him hoovering me, not after the way I made him go beserk.”

“She would not dare to hoover me, not since she knows that I know what she is really like and that I will tell everyone.”

“He has someone else and after the way he left me, he is not going to come back and hoover me.”

Such thinking is complacent and dangerous.

There is always a risk of a hoover.

Furthermore, if you think you have put in place a no contact regime but have left the door open by not blocking our access to you through any and all electronic means of contacting you, then you WILL be hoovered. It may not be straight away (especially if the narcissist has selected a new prospect who we are infatuated with) but it will happen. I see comments from people stating that they have not heard from the narcissist in three weeks. Three weeks? That is nothing. Others may say it has been silent for six months and therefore they know they are safe. Rubbish. I hoovered somebody after a gap of twelve years.

If you do not block us from ‘phone, e-mail and/or social media you are inviting a hoover. Why is this?

  1. We are creatures of economy. If there is a simple, straight-forward and low energy method of contacting you, we will take it. Consider this, if we could not contact you through electronic communication, what are some of our alternative options? Write a pen and paper letter to you? Organise a lieutenant to hoover you in person or by telephone? Send you a gift? Attend on you in person? Those are all options but they require more effort (and sometimes considerably more) than the simple action of sending a text stating ‘Hi’.
  2. It invites a swift response from you. As your emotional thinking surges on receipt of the message, it is so easy for you to type a reply and answer before you even grasp what you are doing and what you are inviting. You can pause before opening  a dgift, you may work out a Lieutenant is hoovering you on our behalf and therefore keep your emotional thinking under better control and therefore provide no information to this Lieutenant. You may recognise the hand-writing on an envelope and pause before opening it, your logic attempting to keep you from falling prey to the emotional thinking. Once that text has landed, showing our name and message, sometimes even on your locked screen, then you are much more likely to respond to it.
  3. The electronic medium allows us to dip a toe in the water. This is especially important for Mid Range Narcissists. If we were to attend on you in person and you ignore us, this causes substantial wounding. In order to avoid this, our kind prefer to be in a position to test the water first. If you ignore a social media message, yes it will wound, but it will not be substantial and we will try at least one more time. If you respond, be it pleasantly or unpleasantly, you have still responded and this signals to us that you will do so again. If your response is pleasant, we instinctively know that we are pushing an open door so we shall text/message again. The messages become an exchange, become a conversation and then emboldened and encourage and also fuelled, we speak with you on the telephone, knowing that you will not reject us and then we meet and before you realise you are in our bed and in our grasp once again. The electronic medium enables us to create a landing point without too much risk and once established it becomes a bridge head for further messages as we hoover you hard.
  4. Even if you do not respond (and we anticipate that you will) we know you will see the message and this will provide us with Thought Fuel. This may give way to feeling wounded when time passes and there is no response, but we still gathered some Thought Fuel beforehand.
  5. Our need to exert control is so great that if you present us with an easy way of getting in touch with you, we will take it. You may as well send us the keys to your house and leave the front door open. Even if you have wounded us in the past, the impact of that fades over time (and indeed is often outweighed by our expectation of high quality hoover fuel, the need to assert our superiority, to get control over you again and in certain instances to punish you). We will not pass up the opportunity to hoover you if you have left an electronic gate open.

Accordingly, if you do not block us from all methods of electronic communication then you are committing no contact suicide. You will be hoovered and your attempt at no contact has failed. It is highly likely that our hoovering will prove successful and we will garner fuel from you as well as resurrecting the Formal Relationship (as and when we choose).

I know there are many of you who want to be hoovered because you want that contact from us once again. You have not got your emotional thinking under control at all. If you leave that electronic gateway open you will be hoovered but do understand this will happen when we decide, not when you want it to happen. Accordingly, if you are the disengaged former IPPS it is highly likely we will have someone else and therefore (unless it is malign) you will not be hoovered until your replacement is in devaluation which could be months or even years later. If you are a shelved IPSS you will face a hoover, but not necessarily when you want it. You will receive comfort crumbs instead and the hoover to take you off the shelf is decided by us, not you. If you are a disengaged IPSS then we have no interest in you because we are engaging with other more reliable appliances and yes with the electronic gateway open, you will be hoovered, but at a future point of our choosing, not at your dictating.

However,  blocking of our electronic method of reaching you is not sufficient. You need to go further otherwise you are still committing no contact suicide.

You must change the telephone number.

You must change the e-mail address.

You must come off social media.

This is because although blocking will have some effect, it is still not enough.

We will ring you/text you  from an alternative number, use a Lieutenant’s number (maybe someone you thought you could trust and thus you take the call or read the text) so we circumvent your blocking of us.

We will create a new e-mail address and do so repeatedly to get around your blocking of us.

We will create false profiles or message through someone else’s profile, or just stalk you using these profiles even if we do not contact you.

Of course changing the profiles/numbers/e-mail addresses will not guarantee that you will not be hoovered because of course some (not all) of our kind will expend effort in getting hold of these new numbers and e-mail addresses, but if you block and change you are putting in place a hurdle which will go some considerable way to raising the Hoover Bar and thus diminishing the risk of a hoover.

You will either force us to expend time and effort to ascertain the new numbers etc and/or you will force us to use alternative methods to hoover you and breach your no contact. We may not know where you live or where you work, or these venues may be some distance away and thus by closing (as far as possible) the electronic gateway by blocking and changing there is more chance we will focus on an easy target rather than waste time trying to gain fuel from a source which has become more difficult to extract from.

A total no contact is very hard to achieve. Moving continents, fleeing to the mountains and changing everything about your prior life, cutting off all routes of reaching you through friends and family etc is doable but is difficult. However, if you do not block and change the electronic method of reaching you, you are committing no contact suicide and you will be hoovered at a future point.

If you have to have come channel of communication with the narcissist (for instance co-parenting) then choose e-mail. Make it clear that this is the only means by which the narcissist can communicate with you, that you will only check the e-mail address say twice a week at a set time for e-mails and no other time. This way you will reduce your exposure to the hoovers which have to get through (by reason of the need for some communication) and with them being in writing you can regulate yourself in terms of your response and endeavour to get your emotional thinking under control.

Do not fall into the trap of thinking that keeping open electronic channels is a pressure valve or a safe way of ensuring we do not turn up in person. This is incorrect and is an outcome of emotional thinking. If you think it is a wise move to keep open a text communication so this will prevent us from coming to see you in person, this is bad thinking, because

  • Doing this WILL mean you are hoovered with the consequences of you feeling anxious, being subjected to more and repeated hoovers through text and more
  • These repeated hooverswhich have been allowed to happen because of the easy electronic route will invariably result in your emotional thinking surging and then we have managed to start seeing you in person again. Do not think you can resist this happening because it is very hard for you to do because your tipping point is reached through the repeated surging of your emotional thinking.
  • If we cannot reach you through electronic means it is NOT  a given that we will turn up in person for the reasons explained above. Even if we do, you can still avoid the hoover, escape it and cause wounding.

It is very simple ; keep any form of electronic communication in place with us and you are committing no contact suicide and you will be hoovered at an appropriate point.

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85 thoughts on “No Contact Suicide – Part Two”

  1. Pingback: IL SUICIDIO DEL NO CONTACT – PARTE DUE – CONOSCERE IL NARCISISTA
  2. Pingback: IL SUICIDIO DEL NO CONTACT – PARTE DUE
  3. Or this: There is no good or eveel, only Flesh and the patterns to which we submit it!

    Hellraiser – one of the greatest comedies, that got incrementally terrible from the repeats after no.3, a lot like narc relationships.

    “You opened the Box! We have such sights”… yes, yes, yes i know….

  4. Hi Jess, so you are saying drama, yelling, etc. is what makes them come back. How about if I never created drama and never yelled at the narc but instead was ever compliant, apologetic, adoring,… you get the pic? What then? Would the narc knowing you love him and he has complete control over you keep him away for good? It’s been 7 months with no word from him. I was never the IPPS by the way, only the secondary.

    1. In your case, IL, since you are saying you never challenged or yelled at him, if you were too suddenly let loose out of left field, I’d bet you will get a response. I know HG mandates staying NC, but I sense you are unable to move past this last stretch of 7 months of silence. If it makes YOU feel better, go for it. But the odds are 50/50 you get a response, then layered on that, challenging and negative confrontations can lead to more hurtful words thrown your way too by him if you open Pandora’s Box there.
      Still, in retrospect, I never regretted lashing out at JN and his hurtful comebacks are more and more a distant memory because he resurfaced so many times that last year, obviously it was meaningless.
      You just have to go in with your “IDGAF” card for him to punch and truly not give a f*ck.

      1. Thanks so much, Clarece! I appreciate your feedback. I have been struggling with the urge to let him have a piece of my mind but to be honest, I don’t want to sabotage the healing I feel I have already done. I really don’t want to waste all the efforts staying NC. I am too far along to just give it up. I have been reading and listening to recordings about narcissism, staying active, trying to keep busy and happy. Thanks again for your support!

      2. Sorry to but in to your conversation. But I just have to say don’t break no contact I’ve done it myself so many times for various reasons and it always ends disastrously I’ve given him a piece of my mind and it always turns around on me his last words to me are that I need a brain specialist I do so good when I’m no contact and when I break it I end up back at square one don’t do it

      3. No problem, Ugoit! Please feel free to butt in any time you wish! I always welcome and appreciate input! Thank you for your validation! I intend to stay NC. Wishing you speedy healing!

    2. It sounds like you want him to be in touch…

      Being compliant, apologetic and adoring are forms of positive fuel. If he is devaluing an IPPS then he may seek positive fuel from you, since you sound like a trusty source in that regard.

      The drama, yelling and insults are negative fuel, which is more potent and more rewarding. If he is very low on fuel then he may seek positive hoover fuel from you but, more likely, he will be stressed and seeking negative fuel to recharge himself. If you were devalued and didn’t provide negative fuel but apologized and adored him anyway…he will need another negative fuel source. He needs someone breakable. Take it as a compliment that you haven’t heard from him.

      1. Hi Jess, thank you for your insight. I don’t believe I have been devalued unless maybe corrective devaluation but maybe not even that. I was an intimate secondary source. All our interactions were actually pretty positive. According to HG, I was put on the shelf. Not sure how long shelving can last before you can conclude you will not be taken off the shelf ever. I also believe HG says they prefer positive fuel from secondary sources.

    3. Hi Insatiable Learner,

      The trouble here is you are looking for the same pattern for every narc, but while they all have repetitive patterns that are driven by seeking ego-supply (fuel), the patterns are unique to that narc and come from how life experiences have influenced their identity.

      HG discusses the 1) Kinds of narc there are, in terms of social functioning. 2) Subtypes (which HG goes into very briefly) – can help you recognise which kind of identity-pattern your narc follows. Then you can find your 3) Role and Position in the ‘fuel matrix’.

      But you must always realise their pattern (based on how they achieve their intimacy avoidance and ego-fueling) – is an addiction motivated behaviour, it’s independent of you and there’s nothing you can do to change it.

      Some return after a discard – ‘recyclers’ – but some do not. HG does not recycle, he hoovers an ex but does not reinstate them (get back together), he does have relationships though. He’s a ‘romantic’.

      My narc doesn’t do relationships. I didn’t have a golden period so much as a feeding frenzy, and after the first time i rejected the narc’s greedy intensity, he discarded and devalued – then returned (because i responded emotionally to the rejection), in an ongoing cycle. So, he’s a recycler. A non-romantic recycler. He creates a harem of favourite conquests, because he does enjoy some familiarity. That’s because he holds grudges and is a possessive control freak. He’s not just a trophy hunter, he’s a grudge-holder and jailer. His fantasy has a narrative that isn’t just about sex but ownership which reflects his GOD defense against life frustrations and insecurities.

      So, my narc doesn’t have a normal facade, he’s a totally reclusive antisocial nomad, who may have both narc and schizoid features. Rejection does anger him, but like many low-energy recycler narcs, he’ll go away to re-fuel until he’s ready to deal with the source of supply – basically just dip into the honey pot. He’s like a human hornet. Everytime i think, that’s it, i’ve fatally wounded his ego, he comes back, more minimalistically aloof, than the last time. At this point, he is calling a sex date ‘a motor functioning control check-up’. I told him he can’t just demand sex after a year of separation (he moved away, i rejected earlier hoovers), so he told me it’s an annual check-up. I think he needs lessons from HG in how to manage bitches, HG should have had a pimp school for narcs. Like Tom Cruise in Magnolia.

      HG is also an ‘antisocial nomad’. His process of being romantic comes from the fact that he does have a ‘romantic self’ to begin with, he wants this reflected. He also wants a normalising facade, an anchor? But then he also needs easily discarded conquests who aren’t a part of his social facade but do fuel his addiction. So he has a varied complex fuel matrix, he’s a high-energy narc as opposed to a low-energy one, he’s embedded in high functioning social behaviour, even though he’s a loner ‘recluse’. People have many sides to them and so does a narc, but the narc is even more compartmentalised and secretive about it. Even when they are married. Some are even monogamous and get their supply from work or social status. Some are these extra special fantasy-self addicts, but most are just status and security seeking.

      You need to know your narc well enough to decipher their patterns, because they do not deviate from the pattern, even if you get shifted around to reflect their ego states. They don’t do real intimacy because they lack empathy. Hence they compartmentalise – develop patterns instead of interpersonally responsive flow.

      Most people in distress, are either dropped into thin air, no closure (very cruel but then at least your emotional addictions aren’t being constantly re-triggered), or are dealing with romantic recyclers, who are slowly draining their self-esteem and energy away.

      If they just dropped you off into thin air, then they are also doing what all narcs are really doing – rejecting intimacy as a way of moving forwards in their lives, solo.

  5. It’s been 7mths of no contact. I refused to change my life one bit for some narc. I dumped him before the devaluation stage began, although he was condescending from day one, so it’s hard to tell. He’s hoovered me twice on Social Media and I always just ignore and then block. I never respond. I really don’t care if he gets fuel from that. I haven’t changed my number, but he’s too much of a coward to call someone who ignores him on social media. His ego needs confirmation that he won’t be hung up on first. I enjoy knowing that he can call anytime and I still won’t answer. Lol. He just keeps creating new accts and stalking my page. And I keep filling it with misinformation so that nobody can make a study of me ever again. Blue dye tests everywhere. Next time I’ll know. I’m not saying that I know what he will do, he’s a somatic malific greater, I’m saying, I don’t care what he does. There is nothing here for him but rejection.

    1. M
      Good job, If you ignore him that is a criticism/wound. No fuel for him.
      These two statements below remind me of my MMRN; when he was young, he was quite the stalker, as well.

      1. he’s too much of a coward
      2. His ego needs confirmation that he won’t be hung up on first.

  6. HG, what about if the appliance unwittingly and unintentionally caused the narc having to explain to his IPPS who she was where he had to lie to his IPPS. They apparently made up but there may have been some friction. Again, the appliance did not intend this to happen. Would this have been some sort of exposure, wounding, or any bases for him to paint her black and never hoover again? They did talk afterwards where the appliance apologized for any trouble. The narc was polite, friendly, and promised future contact.

  7. I am still convinced sometimes a narc will not hoover. My first encounter with a narc (not the one who brought me here) was 6 years ago. It was pretty brief but quite devastating emotionally. There have been many occasions for hoover triggers afterwards, I never blocked him anywhere. However, HEC was never met and I know why and it never will be. He has now moved far away. I have recently stumbled across his phone number in my phone. I do not know even know whether he kept it. I deleted it finally without any feelings whatsoever. Just indifference. I did not delete it earlier not because I wanted him to hoover. I am way past that. I just forgot about it. I think once this new narc got into my life, he completely pushed away the old one from my heart and mind. I just stopped caring. My point is I know the old narc will never hoover. Like I said, it’s been 6 years and I know the HEC will never be met. I am not going into details as to why but this is the case. So sometimes it is possible to be sure the narc will not hoover. Besides, as time goes by, the narc fades away and becomes irrelevant.

    1. That was my previous point that sometimes the shame has a big impact on the Narc and they would rather spend the energy grooming a new supply/old supply than go back to the one that exposed/humiliated them .

      1. Shame/wounding fades over time and is but one factor amongst many others as to whether a Hoover will be executed.

    2. About the new narc pushing the old narc out. That happened to me too. I went straight from a Greater to a Midranger – a knight in shining armor helping me pick up the pieces. (Puke). I was with the Midranger for 5 years. It made “recovery” from the Greater extremely easy. I remember being amazed at how much I didn’t miss him. I got smeared, but other than that, the Greater has really left me alone… so far… Of course, now I’m processing both relationships. It’s weird. It’s almost like, suddenly, they both happened yesterday.

  8. Uh oh, the death knell- Ive become predictable. Shelving or disengagement would usually be imminent. Good thing Im unique.

  9. Pinkdonut

    The very fact that you think your situation is unique is proof that you do not have a grasp on this at all much less the upper hand. Please keep reading and heed HG’s advice to prepare yourself for the eventuality of the hoover instead of being caught out. Good luck.

  10. There is no way my ex narc would Hoover me again, there is no point in doing so anyway, after the way i exposed his lies (wife and children) and his real age…it’s been 4 months of NC but i know he will never try to contact me because the mask dropped and there is no way to do damage control. I was the side chick the entire time without knowing it until i found all the info on the internet…I haven’t blocked his number because i know he is gone for good.

    1. HG
      Just my observation:

      When people make these claims that they will never be hoovered, their desperation and transparency to believe otherwise is palpable. They just want it to be argued and to hear that he/she will. If they believed it would not happen they would have no need to declare it to anyone much less publicly and on a blog to an expert on their own behaviours. If they actually believed it, blocking the number would be a non-issue and take less effort than it took to compose and send the comment itself. Really? NOT blocking the number is going to prove something? It only proves that they are leaving an opening to be contacted, but cannot admit it to themselves because they know it is pathetic to actually want that once they know.

      They doth protest too much.

      1. I am convinced that my situation is unique. The Narc did Hoover me before many times but that was BEFORE I exposed his lies to his primary source and then i ended things with him. He just said he was sorry and there has been silence. The point is some narcs may not hoover because the whole point of hoovering is to get fuel but he knows he cannot get any since our breakup was so explosive and his mask was has slipped. He would spend that energy on hoovering someone else or find a new supply than get wounded again. Therefore, i know i am safe.

      2. Pinkdonut91

        Hopefully, he will never hoover, however, you may want to take steps to protect yourself. Narcissists are fuel addicts and, similar to heroin addicts, will do anything for a hit. I exposed my MMRN and he still hoovers. There are several important things I have learned here: the narcissistic relationship is forever, he owns you and wants to continue drawing from you (his appliance) fuel, traits and residual benefits irrespective of the way you disengaged/escaped/exposed him.

        It could be 12 months or 12 years, you never know. Good luck!

    2. When YOU are done, you will block him, everywhere.

      Why would you want to read anything that he has to say, anyway? Or give him the chance to talk to you, or call you? Not blocking is giving the power away, he still has a way to get (through to) you. Just Knowing this gives him control and power, and he will also take it as a sign that you are not over him, and that you still love him and want him to contact you.

      Best part; once you block, and keep it up- you will also stop thinking about it. It does not matter if he will or will not want to contact you, what is inportant is that he CAN NOT, anyway, because you have taken the power and built your defences (blocked him everywhere, for life).

      And even though you might think the episode was hurtful to him, he will some how blame it all on you being jealous, desperate, mentally unstable or bipolar, and he will not accept any blame.

      That’s just how they roll.

    3. Hello Pinkdonut91,

      As I understand, the point of this site and of all the articles, books, is to understand that regardless of what YOU may think is going to happen or not, the fact is that:

      -YOU cannot control the way your ex (narcissist)thinks
      -YOU cannot control the way the narcissist functions
      -YOU cannot control how and when he can be triggered( by you popping in his head triggered by i.ex. a book,a song ,a place that reminds him of you etc.) the next week, on two three, twenty years from now.
      -YOU cannot control the status of his fuel matrix now or in the future
      -YOU cannot control his sense of entitlement to hoover you whenever he is triggered

      That is to say you cannot control if /when this is going to happen, because it dependes entirely on him not on you ( unless you break the Golden Rules ).
      You can never say that you are sure you are “safe” , that you know that is not going to happen: that is out of your control.

      But you can be prepared if this happens to understand WHY he does it: not because he still loves you or because he still cares and thinks about you after so many months,years .
      Perhaps his fuel matrix is low or he wants to punish you for exposing him.
      If you do not understand that there is always a potential,if you are not prepared , there is a huge risk of being vulnerable either romanticising it( if it is a benign hoover) or being knocked down if it is a malign hoover .

      If you are prepared by understanding and diminishing your vulnerability it would be easier not giving him fuel by no responding emotionally.
      I will ask you a hypothetical question:
      How would you react if he hoovers you now (either a benign or malign hoover) ? Do you have your shield strong and in place? Or would you be caught with your guard down( being vulnerable) by thinking it wouldn’t happen?
      Wouldn’t it be better to be en garde by understanding that it may happen and understanding why and how?

      1. Wow…I don’t know u guys…it really seems that he will be too ashamed to Hoover but if y’all saying he will I guess u should block…

      2. Hello Satenik Hakobjanyan,

        As go so far as to say that he WILL hoover( as a definite event ) is not what is stated here.

        What is said is more that he CAN hoover( existing the potential) if he NEEDS to…something that a narcissist does not even know if he will need to depending on the status of his fuel matrix and how /what triggers him. Therein lies the difference between “will “and “can”.

        Making a simple parallel : if you see that the sky is cloudy, there is the potential of rain right? but it does not mean it will rain…anyhow…:
        would you take an umbrella with you or not to protect yourself just in case?
        well I will..wouldn’t you? Why take unnecessary risks?

      3. Hello K,
        I am glad it made you glad!
        I actually love the rain: the smell, the sound. I find it peaceful, purifying, cleansing ,calming and soothing . So, I had to point out ( mostly for myself I guess) that it wasn’t that purifying rain but rather a toxic one.
        I hope all is fine with you.

      4. Everything is excellent well, SX, Thank you! And I hope this comment finds you well. I love the rain, too. The analogy is great because the narcissist’s toxicity poisons everything in our lives and turns beauty into devastation. I am glad I am no longer standing in that acid rain anymore.

      5. Hello K,
        Thank you for asking. I am perfectly fine.
        Yes, you got my analogy perfectly!
        The thing is that this contamination, toxicity is invisible to the eyes: it is hidden, disguised and you do not notice it until the damage is done. But now we should be able to see it…

        I am glad to hear that you are not in that acid rain again. Be sure not to be exposed again( or if that is inevitable since they are everywhere), be sure not to get caught in it again.
        Best wishes

      6. Thank you, SX.

        No more acid rain for me and I will be staying here till I have it all figured out. So far, so good, knock-on-wood!

      7. … and concerning a narcissist ( and of own experience) the sky is never really clear, shiny and sunny with them but rather cloudy and diffuse.

    4. I’ve been hoovered many times after I was sure I wouldn’t be and I wanted to be hoovered I wanted the validation because I thought it meant he loved me and missed me but I had to swallow the reality that he hoovered me because he wanted something from me and he wanted to prove to himself he could succeed I have to remind myself he told me on two separate occasions he doesn’t love any woman he said it outloud scary stuff I found watching videos about Scott Peterson helped me with my cognitive dissonance not bielieving a man could fake an entire relationship but Scott Peterson did he never loved his wife and killed her without a second thought I don’t know how my narc became who he is his parents and family seems so great to me but we never discussed his childhood but I do know he talked favorably about his father and never talks about his mother good or bad bottom line if this guy is really a narc and cheated on his wife with you he never loved her and never loved you so keep reminding yourself of that fact you were just a pawn used for his satisfaction like we all were nothing more nothing less disgusting but true

      1. Oftentimes, when the empath thinks they are wounding, they are fueling. I have a friend who is in a codependent state right now who fights, challenges, threatens, insults, cries and yells at her narcissist. This is all fuel. It calms him down. It tells him that he maintains his power over her and that is what “love” feels like to him. I do my best to explain that this is what he wants but she has been “down-at-heel” for so long that she feels entitled to “defend” herself. These reactions are his lifeblood. She swims in self doubt and confusion…waiting for his behavior to make sense. It’s difficult to watch…

        Empaths don’t do indifference well….but that is your weapon. If you remember a frantic and drama filled breakup and you think this he reason they will not seek you out, then you are mistaken. This is why they will come back. Trust me. Someone yelling is much better than someone ignoring. He will be back.

      2. Jess I’ve ignored him three times for three to four months he always comes back he’s back now hoovering and love bombing of course I left an opening unintentionally but I still left it

  11. HG – when a victim leaves a narcissist (I was a IPSS – Virtual) before devaluation do they keep your photos, phone number, email info etc? I’ve read that they are disgusted with you and delete everything. But then they would have to acquire that info again to Hoover. Do you keep a dossier on each victim? Do they keep your hone number IN their phone, and if so, wouldn’t seeing your name and number in their contacts trigger a Hoover?

    1. The information is usually kept. The concept of you is ‘deleted’. Yes, seeing the name in contacts is a Hoover Trigger but whether a hoover follows depends of course on whether the HEC criteria are met.
      Do I have a dossier? Absolutely.

  12. I kept repeating «you are a narcissist, stop contacting me» every time he tried writing to hoover me. He did not seem to mind (facade?) and said «dont believe all the svada you read on the internet», «you are simplifying things», «I think you would have noticed sooner if that was the case», «I can agree that I have anger management problems, but I am not a psychopath» and «I am Sorry for everything, I really do love you» .
    I just wrote «if you love me, you’ll tell everything to the police, and you’ll pay me the money I am asking for (I am sueing him) and never contact me again». Then I went completelty NC.
    Did that wound him, or was is just challenge fuel? and what can I expect? He is a MR, I think- because he is the Great Sulk, and uses all forms of Scilence T as often as possible.

    1. Does this sound like a midranger? He was occasinally physically violent, but it seemed more like a «choice», than a instinctive response, and he constantly modified his abuse habit, so after the first hit, that standard had been set. He even hit me in front of his Lieutenant, Was that because he was «manufacturing facade» in his smearing of me? I would vote Lesser MR, can you Please say if you think that might be correct.

      1. Possibly but more information is necessary to provide an accurate assessment.

  13. Its only been a day or two we have officially been back together and he already made me so angry tonight that I don’t think I want to ever speak to him again he truly is the devil well this time the golden period lasted 2 goddamn days

  14. This is a difficult one of course and I guess heads are being cracked right now;) I know the need to block him in all ways possible and that’s what I have done. His phone number is blocked (which by the way; on my iPhone at least since I did a trial run with my sister; needs for him only to use the device of not allowing his number to show in «Settings » and the call will come through anyway, even though I blocked him); I blocked his email, I blocked him on Messenger and Facebook and other platforms of social media. So far so good.

    But then something in me starts to feel uneasy. I recognise the logic of changing phone number, changing email address and disappearing from social media. I see there’s a benefit in it, but then what about me and my life? For how long should this go on? I don’t want to live my life in hiding, moving from the apartment I recently bought, and which I love dearly, because of a crazy man that has a tilted view on reality and acts like a complete freak, changing my easily remembered phone number and not listing it because of someone who obviously would need a large dose of a reality check; not being able to interact with my friends on social media. What kind of a life is that when his paranoia forces me to be paranoid? I don’t want to live like a refugee; he locked me up during our whole relationship, scaring me into isolation with his jealousy, I need my freedom and my space now; I don’t want to be looking over my shoulder constantly, protecting myself to the point where I can’t feel happy and relaxed anymore at all. I need to strengthen my defence by knowledge and learning to think more logically; I do know that, but undertaking all those preventive steps listed here will be a victory for him; not me. I will be the one living a restricted life as I did when with him. I can’t bear that kind of life anymore.

  15. If I did not share a child with my MMRN, I would pack up, move north to Canada and hang out with Narc Angel and narc affair.

  16. Hg my midrange ex hoovered me about a month ago but I know she has another boyfriend who she left me for a few months ago. I did not respond to her text. Do you think she felt wounded by me not responding? She has not tried to text me again since.

  17. Hg what if our job makes us easily reachable? In America you can search on google and easily find public school teachers’ names and work emails/ phone numbers. While I can change my personal number and email I can not get rid of my work number and email.

  18. HG – if mid rangers aren’t aware they abuse people then why do they think some exes block them? Wouldn’t it seem weird to have more than one ex block you? do they even realize they are blocked if they have someone new? I almost feel like my ex doesn’t even know I have blocked him even though I ignored his attempt to text me months after he disengaged from me.

    1. 1. Because their exes are cruel and treacherous.
      2. No, because the narcissism tells us that they are the problem, not us.
      3. Not always no, because we usually do not attempt to contact the ex straight away when we have a new IPPS. That changes when they enter devaluation.

  19. I don’t block him on social media cause he has new supply. And I want him to see I am doing fine. I don’t need him he told me his new supply took real good care of him! But yet he stalks my page I can resist him if he tries to hoover. Unless his stalking is considered a hoover

    1. You think you can resist him, but you will reach a tipping point and your emotional thinking will govern you.

  20. I hear you. If this was me in this years ago, I would agree it is risky and not resolved because I didn’t block him as you described. But he was repeatedly clear and emphatic that it was all made up. I think for some narcs, who might be somewhere between a Mid and a Greater, who don’t have a geographic proximity to the narc, there can be narcs who never, ever hoover. His game with me was never involved enough, crafty enough and I figured him out sooner than I was supposed to.

  21. In my case email= no contact suicide
    Email messages soon became emergencies
    emergencies became telephone calls

    Emergency resolved, he now had phone number to contact me.

    (I did return to the area because of his medical emergencies. I thought not seeing him in person was safe. I was actually staying in the hospital parking lot “just in case”. That doesn’t even make sense to me now.)

    Also, I came back to the area, even if 3 towns away, he had others scouting for him, so he knew I was in the vicinity, and stalked from the “last seen” location until I showed up.

    Even though you know you are going back to hell, there will be some emotional thinking on your part that you want the golden period back, or that you “owe” them something, and they know what will draw you back in.

    Make the shift to logical thinking. If you get your “No Contact” in place correctly to begin with, there will be no appeals to your emotional thinking from your narcissist. Then you have only yourself to wrestle against if they cannot contact you. You’re going to have a heck of a time dealing with that “frenemy”, and you’re going to need the space and time to get yourself back on your side.

    You will have to fight against the traits that want to be kind, loving, forgiving, wants closure, wants an explanation, wants revenge.

    They will only drag you down, and put you square back where you truly don’t want to be. You will have to silence and harden your heart, You will need to work on your logical thinking, until it becomes habit to think logically first.

    Now, have you got your totem? Pick that up before you do ANYTHING.
    What would HG tell you about what you are thinking about doing?

    https://narcsite.com/2017/10/25/g-o-s-o-one/

  22. Email from an address that is my name with two numbers behind, almost my own email address, and just containing a «?»
    how should I regard this, Is this likely narc behavoiur? (If so, why would he use my name?)

  23. Oh, mine is welcome to make contact – with the underside of my boot! lol! The ones who can be hoovered must be very stupid indeed. These women need to get a grip on reality.

  24. In the beginning I was highly susceptible for hoovers from my last ex-narc, because it’s in my nature to want to be heard and to want to be right.

    This all ended when I sent him an email in which I told him what I really thought of him and that I finally saw through his façade.

    After that there was no going back for me. How could I be nice to him after I found out who he really was? That would make no sense at all.

    And there was no need for me to see him again or talk to him again either. Everything I wanted to say I said and there was no point in repeating myself, so I closed that door for good.

    It is not up to him to establish contact again. He can do whatever he likes, but the spell he had over me is broken. I did that.

    I’m not worried about hoovers anymore. I know I may sound cocky or you may even think I’m native or deluding myself, but I know that isn’t the case anymore.

    I think people have to find the strength within themselves to set themselves free from the narcs clutches, otherwise they will always be looking over their shoulders.

    Blocking him and changing email addresses can help us to stop the cravings, but we have to do more than that: we have to decide that we want it to stop. A narc has no power over us when we truly decide that we will not allow it anymore.

  25. I was feeling like a fucking Super Nova this week. I saw that the relationship was toxic. I escaped before I was destroyed. I was resolute about NO CONTACT! I have been reading all I can get my hands on. I have been meditating and feeling stronger every day. I didn’t, in my wildest dreams, expect a Hoover. I was wrong. He showed up at my door last night. He turned on the tears, he took all the blame, professed his undying love. Today I am torn to shreds… Is he really a Narcissist? Am I the crazy one? Why can’t my head and heart get together? It is literally the worst pain I have ever experienced. HOW do I heal?

      1. HG – I am a little hesitant to do that. You kind of frighten me! Not in a BOO! sort of way, but I have a very strong visceral response to reading your blog. It feels somewhat the way “he” made me feel – like energy is being sucked right out of me…

      2. Understood. You may wish to conquer that sensation in order to achieve the knowledge that will assist you.

      3. I am working on conquering that sensation. And, I am intellectually understanding what you have to say… I don’t understand why I can’t shake the deep-down angst. Maybe that is exactly why I should book a consultation with you. But, “trust” is an issue right now!! LOL

      4. Hi Mary, I understand your reservation as I had similar concerns initially. However, I decided to book a consult with HG and I am here to tell you I was so glad I did. I should have done it sooner. I got a lot of validation, invaluable insight, answers I was looking for, and even, understanding, support, and encouragement. Yes, HG is a narcissist but because he is so highly aware, you really do not feel that he is at all. He is patient and even comforting. I broke down crying at one point and he comforted me. Just wanted to share my experience with HG’s consult. Highly recommend it!

      5. Insatiable Learner
        That is awesome! I am so happy that you had such a great experience and you cried and he comforted you! That is amazing. I completely agree with you; his consults are truly invaluable and I highly recommend them, as well.

  26. Let’s pretend you are not a narcissist but an empath on the receiving end. You run this blog and for whatever reason, your ex narcissist has figured that, despite the pen name, this is your blog.

    So she contacts you. Should you have to shut down your site simply because of her? Going completely off line isn’t an option for some who have online businesses, pages, etc.

    That’s why it’s more important to know what to do if you get it, which is to ignore.

    I don’t think he will ever contact me in the near future. 12 years? Maybe? I’m not going to spend time thinking about it. He is dead to me.

    So what happened with your 12 year hoover? How were you met? Ignored? Welcomed?

    1. If you want success, you must implement no contact and make it robust and thorough. Too often people make excuses (and poor ones at that) so their no contact regime is weakened.

      Going off line IS an option, it is always an option, but it may be a difficult option. Some people think certain options are difficult when they are not. I am demonstrating that you need to aim high with your no contact and yes, there will be certain instances where total no contact cannot be achieved but this should only occur in limited occasions and after careful consideration. You then can put in place alternative measures to address these gaps.

      You have to balance what matters to you but make that decision applying logic and not emotional thinking.

      I was met with open arms in a figurative sense and thereafter literally.

  27. It was literally the day I unblocked him on hangouts I got hoovered and now we are back in a relationship your right I suck lol

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