Sadistic Streak


You could be forgiven for thinking that all of our kind are sadists. From your perspective, much of our behaviour, if not all, makes no sense and therefore it could be argued that to behave in the manner that we do must mean that we are all sadists. That is an understandable proposition. After all, if one day a person is kind to you and then the next is nasty to you when you have given them no reason to behave like that, then surely such behaviour is sadistic is it not? The behaviour has no grounding in any logic, the nastiness is manifesting just for the hell of it, is it not? Are we then not deriving pleasure from your hurt and discomfort and therefore that must makes us sadists?

A true or pure sadist is one who derives pleasure from the sadistic act. This often manifests in a sexual arena in that the act of sadism is acted out in a sexual engagement or the sadist becomes sexually aroused from the sadistic act (which may not be sexual in nature). Accordingly, a sadist may derive sexual pleasure from flagellating a bound and gagged individual. Similarly, a sadist may become sexually aroused from murdering the pet kitten of someone else.

Those of you have familiarity with my works will understand that fromm the narcissistic perspective, what we do is not done solely for pleasure (indeed we do not experience pleasure or joy) but rather it is done for the purposes of gaining fuel. It is our need for fuel which is the driver behind all of our behaviours because the emotional response of another provides us with the validation that we desperately require to fill up the void which exists inside of us.

The acquisition of fuel occurs in many, many arenas. It might be gaining a smile from an appreciative stranger as get in a lift with them, from the tears of our partner who is crying after we have held them by the throat and described how much we hate them or from them ecstatic groans of our lover as we provide them with orgasmic relief. In each instance, fuel is what flows, fuel is the aim and fuel is what is required.

All of our kind receives fuel from the emotional response of others. We do not feel joy from inflicting pain on you because we do not feel joy. Your pained expression provides fuel. It could be tears, it could be a smile, it could be laughter. As long as there is an emotional response then we gain fuel.

When you are hurt from our manipulations this is a by product of our need to gain fuel. It is a collateral consequence. Our lack of empathy means that we do not care that you are hurt. However, it goes further than this. The reduced cognitive function of the Lesser (and to some degree the lower echelons of the Mid-Ranger) means that not only do they not care that you are being hurt, they do not know you are being hurt. They see an emotional reaction and that provides fuel (although of course they do not know the mechanics of that operation). They cannot recognise the pain. I appreciate this will be rather hard for some people to grasp – how can he not know I am hurt when I am telling him so and he sees my face twisted in pain and the tears spilling down my face? The fact is, those members of our brethren neither care nor know. Thus when you are manipulated it is done purely for the fuel, it is not done primarily to hurt you. This is cold comfort nevertheless as the outcome remains the same. You are hurt.

Where we have a sadistic streak (and this is more prevalent with the upper echelons of the Mid-Range and the Greater Narcissist) we know we are hurting you and we do not care. The knowledge of your hurt adds further fuel. Accordingly, your emotional response which we witness provides us with the fuel (in the same way as a Lesser or lower echelon Mid-Ranger would) but the knowledge you are being hurt and we are causing this, provides  us with extra potent fuel.

A sadist behaves in the way that he or she does purely for the sake of pleasure. We do not do it. If we have a sadistic streak then we deploy it in our machinations for two purposes:-

  1. The provision of extra-potent fuel as described above; and
  2. For the purposes of punishment and revenge.

Our aim, through this sadism, is not solely pleasure but rather the reinforcement of our superiority. Not all of our kind wish to punish, hence, they have no sadistic streak. The Mid-Ranger who has lost his primary source will feel fury for this transgression but he is far more likely to direct his energies to applying an Initial Grand Hoover to get you back and reinstate the golden period. He has no urge to punish you. Even if that IGH fails, he will then focus on recruiting a new primary source and he will leave you alone. There may be benign follow-up hoovers when he devalues the new primary source, but there is still no desire to punish you He may be looking to ‘win you back’ or just gain positive fuel. If this fails, he may not apply a malign hoover, but instead will leave you be before returning at a later juncture with another benign hoover (if conditions are right).

If you have been discarded by a Lesser but you keep trying to find out why he has discarded you, he will apply malign hoovers. This is not done as an act of revenge, but is rather done to make you stay away so he can focus on his new primary source and so you will not spoil this golden period by telling lies (the truth) about him to the new primary source. He wants you deleted and the malign hoovers are a response to your interference.

If you find yourself in a situation where you know that your particular narcissist has a new primary source, you are doing nothing to enter the spheres of influence but your narcissist will not leave you alone and is applying malign hoovers against you, this is evidence of the sadistic streak. It manifests as a malicious obsession which causes you to enter the sixth sphere of influence (see the relevant section in What is Making Him Come Back? ) and then the Hoover Execution Criteria are met.

The relevant narcissist may not actually receive any Proximate Fuel from you as you are treated to these malign hoovers because he cannot see your reactions, so you may wonder, why would he do this? The reasons are as follows:-

  1. The sadistic streak means that he is willing to sacrifice the fuel he is gaining from the new primary source to carry out this sadistic, malign campaign against you. Usually, the narcissist will want to gorge on this positive fuel from the new primary source and keep his attention on this person, but where there is a sadistic streak, he is willing to use some of this fuel to power the malicious campaign against you as the discarded or escaped former primary source.
  2. The sadistic behaviour allows for the provision of Thought Fuel as the sadistic narcissist contemplates your terrified reactions and it is his perception of how you feel (even though he cannot see it and thus it is not Proximate Fuel) . Ordinarily, a non-sadistic narcissist would not bother to apply the energy to gain this weaker Thought Fuel but a sadistic narcissist will do so.
  3. Our superiority is maintained by doling out punishment and revenge. A non-sadistic narcissist would seek that reinforcement with a new primary source (because it is easier to gain that positive fuel from them and to focus on them solely). The demands of the sadistic narcissist are such that he requires this ratification and validation from both current primary source (positive fuel) and discarded former primary source (negative Thought Fuel and the power felt from the application of revenge).

Accordingly, when you are entangled with a narcissist, so that the Formal relationship is continuing and you are being devalued, and he exhibits sadistic behaviours towards you, this is for the purposes of gaining extra potent fuel. If the sadism occurs post escape or discard, this is done to punish you. If Proximate Fuel arises, so much the better but if it does not, this is not a massive concern to the sadistic narcissist because we are willing to sacrifice the fuel gained from another source in order to power our desire to achieve revenge over you.

Since you look at matters from your perspective and not ours, you may find it difficult to truly distinguish when sadistic behaviour is being used against you during the Formal Relationship. It is, however, at its most recognisable when you have escaped us or have been discarded. If you know we have a new primary source but there is a campaign of hurtful behaviour being used against you – slashing the tyres on your car, putting bricks through your windows, posting unsavoury comments about you online, handing outflyers accusing you of child abuse and such like – this is the sadism being manifested. This is not a smear because the smearing happens prior to your discard (so we have got in first) or if you have escaped, the smear will happen before we get another primary source. The key determining factor in knowing that you are facing a sadistic narcissist is that we have a new primary source and instead of relishing solely in the golden period with them, we are lashing out at you again and again.

46 thoughts on “Sadistic Streak

  1. narc affair says:

    Hi catherine…thats good to hear your dog was ok. Quite often you can tell if someones been mistreating your pet by the way it is around them. Usually itll cower down or avoid that person.
    My brother has had a sadistic side when it comes to animals. He grew up in a rural area and was around ranchers and farmers which may be part of it but honestly i feel theres more to it. When the two girls he hired to help at their horse ranch died as a result of him and he found them something didnt sit right with that. Ive always had a gut feeling about it but i hope im wrong. It could be genetic bc my dad has a sadistic side and my brother didnt grow up around him. In fact as a child anytime id hurt myself hed laugh as if it was a joke and say you “racked up”. It really annoyed me and hurt my feelings.
    He did a lot of abusive things to our dog. Looking back i blame my mother for allowing it. She shouldve got a home for our dog. She was a codependant and went along with what he did.
    I do think theres a genetic component to narcissism.

    1. Carol M says:

      Hello Narc Affair,

      Did your brother killed two girls? Hasn’t the police investigated? How did he literally get away with murded?

      1. narc affair says:

        Hi carol….it was investigated but it was a situation where he didnt physically kill them but moreso facilitated it. He had invited them camping and set up a situation where they died then made sure he was the one who found them. It sounds far fetched but the way he basked in the attention afterwards as a victim really sent off alarms to me. I could be wrong and i sure hope i am but it seemed like he enjoyed the outcome too much. One of the parents was a police officer and had suspicions and was attacked for wanting to persue a lengthy investigation which he had every right to want. His daughter had just died and still everyones focus was on my brother. It amazes me. I really do hope is was just an accident which was what they concluded.

  2. J says:

    Dear HG, it has reached my attention that my exN is going through some VERY serious life struggles. In such a time, he would be VERY likely to reach out for my help/fuel. NC barriers all in place. However, he is a sneaky one and the community is tightly knit. Which of your books would be most useful in helping me see potential manipulations, smears, etc. coming from afar? (I will of course read all in due course!)

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Manipulated, Devil’s Toolkit and Smeared.

  3. Jasmine says:

    I think the ex MRVN is sadistic as well. He seemed to enjoy my pain and want to punish me for perceived wrongdoings


    Me: can we talk about this later? I don’t feel well, I’ve been having a panic attack all afternoon. My chest hurts.

    Narc: Good. I know what that feels like. You deserve it.

    1. Carol M says:

      (three weeks later)

      You: How have you been?

      Narc: I feel awful! I have had a panick attack and thought I was going to die!

      You: I know right, that’s how I told you I was feeling that time.

      Narc: Not it’s not like that! It’s far worse! How can you be so selfish! I am indeed suffering like a martyr, you were just complaining about nothing! How dare you treat me like that! You better do something about it, you do not care about me at all! How can you call yourself a human being?! Get your *** here and look after me immediatly!

      Jasmine, I know this narrative by heart now, sadly.

      1. Catherine says:

        Ha ha Carol M and Jasmine, I unfortunately know this scenario by heart too. Mine though was more like:

        Me (getting into the car): Why did you have to change our plans again? I told you I needed to see a friend today. She needs some company. I actually feel hurt sometimes from your lack of understanding.

        Him: Ok. Are you done now? With your whining? Do you need to be thrown out of the car now too? Is that’s what’s going to happen? Keep on with that tone in your voice and that’s what’ll happen! Did I ask you to tell me how you feel huh? Did I by any chance pretend to be interested in your feelings? How can you be so selfish?

        He was a downright bully!

        1. Jasmine says:

          I, for one, am thrilled to be away from that bully! I’m finally beginning to relax a little. And breathe. That about sums up my day.

      2. Jasmine says:

        Ugh. Its hateful. Mean and hateful. Are you still in communication? I’m no contact. Fini. Done.

        1. Carol M says:

          Yes, I was with the ‘Wrong’ non contact since April 2017 (stalking his page on FB, talking now and then with one of his liutenants, accepting his mom’s friendship request) and the “Correct” non contact (strictly from Mr Tudor’s book) since October 2017. Now I feel much more safe and back to the dating market, thanks God!

          1. Jasmine says:

            Back to dating? Brave girl! I’m far from that endeavor, but I never say never. 😉
            Good going on the n/c. I wasn’t doing it correctly either at first. Now that I am, things are much quieter on the home front. It DOES make a difference! Live and learn ❤

          2. Carol M says:

            Oh yes, having beaten the paranoia of seeing “Narcs here! Narcs there! Narcs everywhere!” and learning to apply tests to evaluate the narcissistic traits level, I am back to business!

  4. DoForLuv says:

    On our first date he told me he has some sadistic thoughts too . I just sat there smiling haha wow.

  5. narc affair says:

    I think on some level narcissists all have a bit of sadism given the fact they enjoy negative fuel.
    A huge red flag is when children harm animals usually these types become psychopathic narcissists. Im convinced my brother is one and i know my dad has a sadistic streak.
    It sickens me how anyone can harm especially animals. That says a lot about someone. I still feel sick thinking about how my dad treated our dog growing up. He was abusive to him. That is why i donate regularly to no kill animal shelters. I cant save every animal out there but i sure will do my part in.
    My brother i have a feeling was behind the death of two of his ranchhands altho i cant be certain. Even seeing pictures of him on facebook he looks evil. Something in his whole facial expression and eyes. I dont know where it went wrong with him bc he was the golden child and was quite young when my parents divorced. I was subjected to it all but he was protected so where did this sadistic streak come from? Genetic? Its really odd.

    1. Catherine says:

      Hi narc affair, that’s really a red flag; cruelty to animals. I can’t stand that either. If it’s anything that I can’t stand it’s that sadistic streak. I remember that I had to leave my beloved dog in the care of my grandmother once; I’d promised my mum to go for a visit with her; it must have been before I refused completely to have anything to do with my grandmother. Something came up and I needed to leave for half an hour. My dog was completely hysterical when I was about to leave; it wasn’t like him at all, but he couldn’t stand her. I found it strange then but afterwards I found out my mother had left him there a few times before when she took care of him. I don’t even want to think about what she might have done. Anyway; I took him with me that time; at least I’m glad for that. She was evil.

      Probably in your case with your brother it must be genetic? Psychopathy usually is isn’t it? At least some of it; the warrior gene and so on?

    2. Jasmine says:

      Narc affair, that is a sickening sight. My 2nd dh husband beat our little bitty dog. Eventually he beat me that way. Sick. Sick and sadistic..

  6. Linda says:

    Instead of being sadistic why not solve the problem ? Mine won’t confront me he just keeps slandering me behind the scenes

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Hello Linda, because smearing you and slandering you is regarded as the most appropriate response by the narcissist, from his perspective. From your perspective, you regard the solution as solving the problem, but the narcissist (owing to differing needs) has an alternative perspective.

  7. Twilight says:

    HG can one with this steak see some actions as challenge fuel?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      The narcissist will regard any action which challenges us but contains an emotional response as Challenge Fuel as described in ‘Fuel, Fight or Flight’.

      1. Twilight says:

        Thank you HG, I thought so.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          You are welcome.

      2. Twilight says:


        I went back and read the article, I am curious how hard is it to make a Greater take flight instead of fighting?

        1. HG Tudor says:


          1. Twilight says:

            I thought as much

            Thank you HG

  8. Bekah B says:

    “You Won The Battle.. But The War Is Far From Over..”
    – My Ex Mid-Ranger

    1. Catherine says:

      Ouch Bekah B, but he’s wrong; the war is over because you have the power to end it. My mother is a perfect fit of being a Mid Ranger and operates by guilt and shame. Mid Rangers scare me in their supposed “normality”.. They’re such victims when they want to be. Hugs to you!

      1. Bekah B says:

        That is very true, Catherine.. They seem the most normal and roll out those pity plays, with ease.. Thank you so much! Hugs back to you! 🙂

  9. BurntKrispyKeen says:

    Wow, HG! Why do I struggle so much to understand?

    I have a lifelong friend who was painted heavily with the narcissistic brush. She has always told fibs and exaggerates to this day. If there are ten guys in the room, only two of which she finds attractive, she will still want all ten men to view her the most desirable woman amongst the other females occupying her space. She relishes being the center of attention, so she fabricates certain details within most of her stories, just to make the conversations more lively. She has done this coloring to the point where an ex crowned her The Crayola Queen. (Behind her back, of course.) She has been this way since first-grade. Still, I care for her very much. She has insecurities masked with great confidence. And I’ve known her long enough to understand why… even though it gets annoying watching her throw almost every ex she’s ever had the occasional bone, just to keep them on the hook. She desperately needs their attention, especially once she realizes they moved on to another.

    But for the most part, she’s been a great friend to me. My point is… I have been exposed to this behavior most of my life.

    I also once worked for a woman who has similar issues. A colleague once confided in me that she believed our director was a narcissistic sociopath. Our director certainly fit the criteria… gregarious, charming… sweetly smiling while twisting the knife into your back. She was fantastic at stealing ideas, claiming them as her own while complimenting whomever to gain more. She’d say the newspaper was more black than white, but the very next week, she’d deny saying such, proclaiming that everybody knows it’s more white than black. Such idiots we were. Whatever fit her needs at the time, she’d say it despite her own contradictions. Another colleague said our director would throw her own mother under the bus if it somehow helped to cover her ass. Our director was always blaming others for her shortcomings. But she’d eagerly take ownership if it benefited her to do so. She still holds the title of the most difficult person I’ve ever worked with. Yet I am privy to the circumstances of her childhood, so I somewhat understand why she behaves as she does.

    You might remember that I work in a profession to where I am able to talk to people all day. So of course, I have encountered many more narcissists through my job. It’s a joke at the office that my specialty is managing difficult people. I can let plenty slide. But I’ve had to learn to adjust my approach and to know which battles to pick. Yet with all of this exposure, it wasn’t until I met my male narcissist and became romantically involved that I’ve struggled to this degree. Narcissism has me stumped.

    I studied this disorder in college and have researched the subject sporadically over the years. It hasn’t helped that there is much conflicting information. But because of him, I have now spent countless hours researching this way of being, this ailment that has just about pushed me over the edge.

    Your words, HG, are truly the most informative on the subject. It’s not just your knowledge but your ability to relate to the reader, most often the victim. You bring in the human element, making us feel as if we know you. You do this very well. So why can’t I completely understand this?

    I want to peel it back to the bone, dissect every part… get to the causation of what makes people this way?

    You say that you can’t change. And that might be true of some, but you seem different. Sure, you help us mainly for the monetary gain. That’s not hard to see. You also say that you obtain a minimal amount of fuel. I would too! I very much enjoyed speaking with you. And learning of your reader’s circumstances makes me feel less alone. I can see how the interactions on your blog could become addictive, although it would drive me crazy never having completion of task… always having those responses waiting for moderation… always a desperate question to be answered. I truly admire how you are able do it all HG?

    I have to remind myself that you do have the drive and stamina of a narcissist. But I have the tenacity of an empath. I can’t really rest until I have this mystery solved.

    And I don’t want to give up hope for either of us. Please realize that the human brain is more plastic than we once believed. I just wish mine could adapt to understanding this better!

    Do I need to start thinking of narcissism like I do pedophilia? I can have some sympathy for the pedophile because I can see the great disturbance that must exist within an adult who finds innocent children attractive. And I understand that within this sickening disorder, ironically, they don’t usually want to hurt their victims. And as disgusting as this sounds, some of them actually believe they are in love with their victim child. Like most everyone, I despise this disorder of pedophilia. But like few, I can have sympathy for the disruption inside such an individual. Though I will NEVER understand it.

    Is NPD similar? Is there truly no hope for change? (You’re not going to post this one either, are you? I’m actually content with that as a part of me is embarrassed that some of the others seem to thouroughly understand narcissism, but I stay tormented. And know I’m not comparing you to a pedophile… not in that way. So please don’t let the fragile ego become offended. I sincerely respect what you’re doing here. I respect you.)

    You have such a grasp on this, and as intelligent as you are, I sense that there is much more to you than what you reveal here. So will you ever tell us? Will you eventually share the ways in how you’ve changed throughout the years, through therapy and your concentrated efforts? Despite your denial of change, I can’t help but sense that you have somehow grown. Is that something you’re ever willing to share? Please.

  10. Sarabella says:

    HG, just a fancy way of not facing that you are a sadist. You can spin it all you want, but you LIKE hurting. This fuel thing is personal masturbation sometimes, fancy dancing to spin some deeper significance to who you are: sick, evil, hurtful and gleeful at all of the above. But for you to face that reality would be a deep narc wound. So, you make it more smart than it is.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Not at all, I have never denied that I like hurting people. It is clear from many of the articles that I have written.

    2. J says:

      I mean no offense, Sarabella, but yeah. What you have described is part and parcel of what it means to be a narcissist. HG is a narcissist, as he openly, helpfully admits.
      I comment on this because I believe an important step in the seeing/healing process is to work toward not being dazzled (shocked, horrified, surprised, stunned, paralyzed, etc.) that Ns act like Ns, think like Ns, wound like Ns, etc. Yes, my Emotional Thinking too screams, “How could he?!” “What kind of a person?!” “What a liar!”
      However… As the old fable goes, “Why did you do that?!”
      “Because I’m a scorpion.”

  11. Catherine says:

    Hmm.. I do see my ex as sadistic but it might be like you say more to do with the fact that it’s easy to confuse narcissistic behaviour as sadism generally. He did like thought fuel but since the relationship ended I have no clue even if he has someone new lined up or not, which he probably has, and except for suddenly returning my keys there haven’t been any hoovers that I know of; he’s blocked anyway.

    I’m pretty sure that he would be described as an Upper Lesser narcissistically, but that he also does have the added psychopathy characteristic.

    He did like to punish me and he made me by praise and punishment construct my very own cage of isolation. So what about the calculation I felt with him then? There was a large amount of unpredictability involved in the punishments. I never knew when they would be executed; it could be weeks or even months after the actual occurrence; just when I’d started to relax; and he always found a way to subtly let me know what I was being punished for; smiling. Isn’t that sadistic?

    1. Bekah B says:

      In my opinion, that is sadistic, Catherine.. To be completely aware of what he was doing, as far as manipulations, machinations, and abuse, and then to utter to you, with a smile, it was some sort of “punishment” is cruel.. The smile, to me, is the indicator of sadism..

      Objectively, either he reveled in his “brilliance” and gained fuel knowing he spent all of this time to hurt you and could label it as a punishment; or he truly did take pleasure in hurting you, regardless of what happened prior and the addition of stating it was a punishment afterwards was just a blame-shifting tactic..

      1. Catherine says:

        Yes Bekah B, you’re right. It could be that the opportunity to punish me just arose somehow and he then saw it fit to remind me of something I’d done before. It could be any small and irrelevant thing I’d said to him or the fact that I’d been out with my friends for dinner a month ago or whatever; he was horribly jealous; and instead of telling me straight out when punishing me he would just before be alluding to the event very subtly. And yes, always smiling. He schemed, planned and masterminded revenge for every small thing that he imagined that people had done to him. It was true paranoia. He had a fall out with his best friend a few months after we met and he spent years planning the revenge he would exact on him when an opportunity presented itself. I found that to be highly sadistic, I always thought he derived pleasure from it, and l do think he’s planning on avenging me too now. I hope it comes to nothing; he spent three years with the scheming for his friend but there were economical reasons involved there; I don’t know how he could hurt me now..

        1. Bekah B says:

          I also hope and pray any revenge he is plotting against you comes to nothing at all! Please stay strong and encouraged and I know you will make it through this time! 🙂

    2. Carol M says:

      Hello Catherine,

      I’m still not sure if my nex was Upper Lesser or Low Mid Ranger (he had very low energy levels, charisma, fuel matrix and cognitive functions, but his passive agressive behaviour was really, really high), however, I’m pretty sure he was a sociopath and had a sadistic streak. When we first met, he described himself as asexual but then I find out he was addicted to BDSM porn and wanted to perform sadist/Dom roleplay – basicly he could not get aroused except through this. Also, he was always backstabbing members of his family whenever they had achievements and made plans for paying someone to screw up people who supposedly let him down, like a guy who owed him money (actually the guy didn’t owe him anything, it was a joke bet) and another one who bullied him at school (I’m pretty sure he wanted to play the victim, as his best friend once told me he was pretty popular at school, we know popular children do not get bullied, they’re more likely to intimidate others) so my humble conclusion is they have a sadistic streak within all they interactions with people due to their need to always feel in control and in superior position. Maybe your case is similar. Anyway, I feel releived we are out of their reach now.

      All love,

      1. Catherine says:

        Hi Carol M, thanks for sharing more of your story. It does immensely good to hear our different; but still so alike stories. I’ve also found it difficult to place my ex in a category. He was always very passive aggressive too; he used silent treatments a lot and was good at stabbing people in the back in a way that wasn’t straightforward and confrontational enough to make people confront him; instead everyone around him went around feeling guilty and uneasy and he got what he wanted most of the time without having to state it clearly or raise his voice even. Also he schemed and masterminded a lot; being always ten steps ahead; he was smart and I wouldn’t say he had lesser cognitive levels, but the thing that’s led me to believe he was an Upper Lesser is his aggression; he is a brute at heart this man. Rough at the edges, he’s in a high power profession, but is still considered by his environment as the odd one out; he doesn’t fit. He’s not good at façade management at all. It’s like this kind of brutish agression that can erupt like a volcano anytime; and even if it usually doesn’t, it’s palpable, always there.

        Was yours aggressive too in this way? I’m wondering if the psychopathy/sociopathy might have another layer to it? My therapist says my ex would be a psychopath first and foremost, but as I understand it psychopaths usually are narcissistic as well.

        When it comes to the sexual arena he was really into BDSM too like yours, but it wasn’t that remarkable; he could be aroused by other things as well and I never caught him watching porn or being interested in porn at all. He was good at it when he made an effort; usually there was this gap between what he described he liked and what he actually did. It might have to do with his lower energy levels I guess. Mine was a bully too; seeking revenge; brutal and dishonest about motives and paranoid to the core so the surge of power and control these men feel might like you say have something to do with our understanding of them as sadistic. Might not that feeling of omnipotence be described as a sadistic pleasure of some sorts?

        All love to you too!

        1. Carol M says:

          Yes, mine also tended to brutality, both in roleplay, videogames and social life – once, he was at Swedish for Immigrants class with his coworkers and the guy sit next to him made a joke by grabbing him from behind. He simply stood up and and struck the guy in his face, who retalliated and so they fought in front of everyone, including people who clearly would share what they had witnessed new day at his office! So, very low control threshold.

      2. Catherine says:

        Carol M, that sounds brutal; yours could be an Upper Lesser as well maybe?

        I’ve been thinking a lot of the kind of narcissist I would prefer in my life if I had to have one. It sounds crazy, but if I was really forced to have one. My ex was an Upper Lesser, my mother would be Mid Ranger, probably in the middle, and my grandmother might’ve been a Lower Greater or an Upper Mid Ranger; so I’ve realised I more or less have come across them all. And I find the Mid Ringers most disturbing somehow; at least with a Lesser there’s obviously something wrong (not that it helped me anyway ha ha..); and with a Greater I’m not sure, but my grandmother was pure evil to me. But my mother on the other hand was always the perpetual victim who controlled by strong bonds of “love” and because she was such a sufferings day good person who said she did everything right it’s more difficult to spot. I’ve thought about it a lot lately in my contact with her. She’s so passive aggressive it’s unbelievable and the guilt and shame she leaves me with after any interaction with her is almost unbearable. I hate Mid Rangers!

        1. Carol M says:

          Catherine, please, don’t even think about the possibility of having a relationship with a narcissist ever again! Learn more about how the golden period is not real, you might as well be in a romantic movie played in real life by a very skilled actor! It is all staged to draw you in, not a single word is sincere, not a single act is genuine! My therapist says we get involved with narcissists because, in our subconscience, we want to re-enact the childhood traumas in hope this time we will sort things out, This time we will fix them, this time we will be truely loved. However, this is not possible! Please, read more about it, break the circle, change the pattern and find a non narc to love.
          Have you considered the possibility of going non contact with narcs in your family too? Or maybe working on a plan not to provide them fuel anymore.
          Best wishes!

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Wise words.

      3. Catherine says:

        Carol M, no I didn’t mean it that way at all; don’t worry; I’m not in any way contemplating having another relationship with a narcissist. Never. Ever. I’m healing now; I’ve learnt so much about myself these past months and I almost in a way feel grateful to my experience because of these insights. I have no wish for more abuse; I feel I see things quite clearly now. I just in a jokingly way referred to my opinion of the different schools since I think I’ve had them all in my life and my mother the Mid Ranger is the most difficult one somehow because she operates through guilt and through the fact that she herself is a saint who can do no wrong even though she spent my entire childhood projecting everything dark and painful onto me. That’s what I meant.

        When it comes to my family my grandmother passed away a few years ago and my mother’s old and I have decided not to confront her; I’ve spent a lifetime with the shame and the guilt she forced me to carry; I’ve come to realise I can’t bear the guilt of breaking off our relationship now; I try to avoid her as much as I can though; I’ve started to set boundaries and it feels good. I’ll let it be that way. She’s my mother. I don’t want to live with any regrets later on.

        Best wishes to you too!

        1. Carol M says:

          That’s great! I feel so much better now. Here’s a song for us Empaths

  12. Mara says:

    Thank you. This is helpful.

    Yes, to me all narcissists are sadistic due to the harm they inflict but this blog post does help me understand the difference between a truly sadistic narcissist and a “non-sadistic” one.

    “The key determining factor in knowing that you are facing a sadistic narcissist is that we have a new primary source and instead of relishing solely in the golden period with them, we are lashing out at you again and again.”

    I guess I was lucky that I’m clearly not dealing with a sadistic narcissist. The narcissist I got entangled with appears to have completely forgotten I exist, but I acknowledge that’s the best as far as my best interest is concerned.

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